Begin Again with Davina McCall - Veganism Saved My Life! How I Stopped Drinking. I Wasn’t Happy. Gail McNeill.

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina is joined by Gail McNeill, founder of Fifty Sister and a beacon of inspiration for midlife transformation. Gail shares her powerful personal journey of navigating midlife challenges, overcoming destructive behaviours, and embracing a more authentic life. Through her story, Gail offers invaluable insights and practical steps to help you find your "why" and create a life filled with purpose and joy. Follow me here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  (00:00) Intro   (01:02) Early Life & Career   (01:19) Letting Go of Material Things   (03:34) Change of Career   (05:22) Social Media   (08:28) Weight Loss   (13:40) Finding Your Why   (17:37) Becoming Plant-Based   (22:30) Do You Feel Like You’re Restricting Yourself?    (23:22) Gail's Exercise Routine   (25:40) Zoe Ad   (27:07) The Menopause   (28:54) Did Gail Grieve Not Having Children Anymore?   (31:37) What Being a Woman Means to Gail   (34:59) Approaching Diet    (38:10) Gail’s Spiritual Journey   (42:28) Conquering Anxiety and Stress   (44:22) Gail’s Book   (46:28) What Is a Soul?   (49:22) Davina's Round-Up   Sponsored by: ZOE - https://zoe.com and use code DAVINA10 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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In communities across Canada, hourly Amazon employees can grow their skills and their paycheck by enrolling in free skills training programs for in-demand fields. Learn more at aboutamazon.ca. You don't need a lot to be happy. And I thought, well, what if I don't own anything? What if I literally have a few clothes? My husband went, do what makes you happy. Can I just say, your husband's a bloody revelation. Do whatever makes your wife happy.

I've given up on life. I literally wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. And I thought, am I drinking to numb that feeling? And that's when you realized you have a problem. I got to a point where I was like, when am I going to be me? And then I found... It's no good anybody telling someone else,

this is what you should do, you should do this, this is. You have to find your path. It's your why. Yeah. Anxiety and stress are two mega midlife things. Can you remember all the things you've ever been stressed about? You can't. When I let go of all these things, I felt this.

amazing freedom. I found this light and it's so bright. I mean, I want to shake your hand for that, like, congratulations. Well, Gail McNeil, it's very, very nice to meet you. I'm looking forward to hearing all your sort of tips and everything for navigating midlife, but I do want to go back to your beginnings. Yeah. As a child, I didn't have a lot growing up. I didn't come from a rich family. So I was very driven to be successful. And so... So everything I achieved was not enough. And I thought, well, what if I don't own anything? What if I literally have a few clothes and things that I can't let go off? Luckily, I've got a very tolerant husband who when I said, I want to sell the house and I want to get rid of everything,

he said, okay. And I said, but I mean everything. He said, yeah, okay, that's fine. So this task of having this huge house full of furniture, full of stuff, I then had to start the process of decluttering and getting rid of everything, which is huge. What was that like? Everything you need is within yourself. Everything you need is within yourself. So all these things actually mean nothing. I'm not very sentimental when it comes to things. So I started by getting rid of big things. But then, I mean, I would have loved it if everything would have gone in a backpack. But sadly, with documents and pieces of paper and bits and bobs, we ended up with 10 boxes. Ten boxes.

Ten boxes. Your whole life was in ten boxes. Yeah. And I remember when I had one of my biggest paychecks and I had everything I ever wanted, my first thought was, how can I get out of this situation? How can I stop wanting more? How can I not have this big house? How can I not have these cars? And how can I be happy?

One of the things that I felt about your period of needing more. was a feeling of control, like controlling, I need this, I've got to control that, I've got to go, and that actually what you did was just a massive let go. Did it feel like that to you? Maybe control, but I think I was just so driven to be successful. I don't know why I was driven to be so successful, but it was just this burning urge to be successful and to have everything I'd ever dreamt of. And then when I did let go, I let go, I really did.

let go. I let go of everything I'd ever wanted. I thought I wanted, but it was not what I needed. We all want these things, don't we? But at the end of the day, do we need them? You don't need a lot to be happy. So when I let go of all these things, every time something left the house, I felt this amazing feeling of freedom. I'm really interested in midlife career pivots. I think that gone are the days when anybody works. I mean, your parents, I don't know if your parents are. like this, but my grandfather and my dad, my dad worked in advertising and sales his whole life. My granddad worked for British paints, his whole working life. Gone of those days, we all, in our generation, I think, will have multiple different careers, multiple different

choices, but midlife feels like an amazing time to reinvent yourself. Yeah. And you've done it in such a magnificent and massive way. Was it a conscious decision to think, right, I want to get this out to an audience? Or was it like, I'm going to start telling me, I'm doing something mad here. I think I'm going to start sharing my story because it comes from a place of truth. I can see that. Well, how it started was I was looking through Instagram and Instagram was the place you look for photos for inspiration. So it's kind of changed now. But at the time it was, if you wanted to find someone with silver hair, if you want to find someone doing something different or makeup, I tip or anything like that, yeah, that's where you would go. And so I was kind of looking

through Instagram and I said to my son, I can't find anybody that inspires me. I can't find anybody that's showing me that life can be amazing, life can be incredible, you can do something different, you can be vibrant, full of energy, have passion and do something new. And he said, well, you can't find her because you are her. So young. Is that your son? That's my son. How great is that? Yeah. So he said, you can't find her because you are her. He always calls me an owl. He said, I'm very wise. So he said, okay, you need to channel that and you need to post it online. I said, I don't want to post online.

I don't like social media. It's not my thing. And he said, well, that's why if everyone said the same thing, there'd be nobody on social media. So I started posting when I was doing my hair from, it was pink at the time, I think. And then I stripped out all the color to shocking white, ruined my hair. But I thought it's the last time I'm going to ruin it. And then I thought, I'm just going to go, I'm just going to let the silver come through. that was an amazing feeling too was it why because it's the upkeep of dying hair

three weeks it's well it's obviously it's the express but it's the upkeep it's another thing that you have to keep doing and I felt like I was fighting my hair I felt like oh I's got the roots of that well they're never going to stop so again liberation of I don't need to do that anymore I said to my husband's son look I'm thinking of going gray I'm thinking of just linen there silver comes through should I do that my husband won't do what makes you happy my Sun said. Can't just say your husband's a bloody revelation. Like, we do argue by the right? I mean, I feel like we should just slow clap Sean right at this moment. Like, well, done, Sean. I'm going to look straight down the lens there. Do whatever makes your wife happy.

We do argue, though. Do you? We do. Well, I want to talk to you about that later, but carry on with this story of silver hair. So I said, should I, should I let my hair come through? My husband's the year to what makes you happy. My son said, absolutely not. Do not do that. So I say, sorry, I'm just going to, I'm going to do it anyway. So I started letting it grow out and I felt this, again, a sense of relief. I thought, I just, it's natural. Why am I fighting it? I'm fighting aging. I'm not going to win that. I can't win that. Yeah. I don't want to win that because if I win it, I'm probably dead. So I want to be alive and I want to embrace my wrinkles and I want to embrace my silver hair. So as I started posting, I didn't expect anyone to follow me. I expected

possibly 10. I thought it's probably 10 silver sisters out there thinking, oh, I'll follow her. But within a very short space of time, there were 70,000 people. And I'm a mistake, I get freaked out quite often, and I just run away from it. I'm like, I don't, I don't, I don't know, I don't know. It's another beast to feed. It is, and it is. And, and, and, and, and, And we need you. Do you know what I mean? Like then it feels like a responsibility. And in a way, you've let go of all of that. You're so right. That's exactly it. Because I will suddenly say, this is too much, you know, I'm taking up too much of my life. I'm not spending enough time bothering in mud, walking my dogs, being outside, barefoot in the Orange Grove. I'm feeding this

beast, like you say. And then I'll get an email. And it'll be from a woman in California or somewhere else saying you've changed my life. Why have you stopped posting? I'd given up on life. I wanted to die. I thought my life was over. You've given me hope. Please don't stop posting. And then I feel I'm choked up reading them because I'm like, oh, that was me. That was me looking for somebody. Yeah. I really hope you're enjoying this episode. And if you can, give us a follow. I want to talk to you about your weight loss journey because I think the thing that I get asked most of all, is, well, I get accused a lot of like, well, it's all right for you. You've probably got a private personal trainer.

And you train every single day. I don't. I don't have a personal trainer. I exercise to my own platform. Like I, but I know that people get that from you. And you've done the radical weight loss thing in menopause, which lots of people say is impossible. And you've proven that it's not. And you've told loads of women how you do that.

Yeah. Talk me through that. So, 2021, I had, through lockdown, we weren't exercising, we weren't walking. So prior to 2021, I was walking my dogs about four hours a day. And I mean hiking. I mean, we were gone for four hours and I came back exhausted. So then suddenly I can't do that. You can't go for four hours.

You can't be walking, driving, going wherever you want. So then I'm in the hat, like everyone else, we're at home. The gin and tonics there. There's nothing else to do. There's nowhere else to go. So, oh, there's a nice sunset. I'll go and watch the sunset. Well, what's the sunset unless you have a gin and tonic? So I would take my little picnic basket with the tonic and the gin and some ice cubes and some slices of lemon.

And I would walk down to the mill pond. This is where we were renting a house. It was a beautiful farm in the middle of the countryside. It's a beautiful mill pond. I could watch the sunset behind it and take a gin and tonic. Of course, you might as well have a double, might not. Yeah. Yeah. So you have a double gin and tonic. And then, well, you might as well have another one because there's nothing else to do. So, but it's also, oh, it's nice, it's sunny, it's the sunset, I'm outside. It's only two drinks, but it's not really. It's four drinks because it's two doubles.

And so this becomes a routine to double chin and tonics, nearly every day. And then, of course, you're eating snacks. Oh, you must have to take back at the crisps or something. And then slowly, slowly, I'm gaining weight. But of course, it's so slow that I don't notice. I don't notice. But I thought it was really, I thought it was really, reasonably fit, but then I can, then suddenly, within, I don't know, six months, I see a photo

of myself. And I'm like, oh, you look a bit, you look a bit puffy. Hmm, I don't recognize you. Maybe I need to do something about that. And then we went, when lockdown finished, we went to the north of Portugal and we rented this little house in the countryside and we walked down to this river. And I set up my camera, I love taking videos, set up my camera, and I'm walking along the rocks and I'm about to dive into the river. And I'm looking at the camera, go, is that on? Is that

recording? And I can't, because I've got my glasses on. Is that recording? I'm not sure. So I'm kind of squinting. And then, oh yeah, I think it's recording. So then I dive in and I go swimming. And then a few weeks later, I'm kind of looking through the videos. And I come across that clip of me looking at the camera. But of course, I'm not even looking at my face. I'm looking at my body saying, who's that? Who is that person? That's not me. And okay, a lot of people say, oh, you didn't look that bad. But how much weight is too much weight? Is it one pound? Is it 12 pounds?

But it also depends where you started. I mean, I think when we put on the weight around our middles, it's from where you started, is this different for you? And that was different for you. You didn't recognize yourself. But for someone else, that might not be how they felt if they had your body. No. But it's not where you started.

That's right. So people, a lot of people, I get criticism too saying, oh, you're fat shaming that version of yourself. I said, okay, that person is not happy. That person can feel that weight. She's miserable. I can see that in her eyes. I don't have to look at the rest of the body. I can see it in her eyes. I could, yeah, and I'm like, I look dead. My eyes are dead. I'm a very vibrant, bubbly, chatty person. And I'm looking at that person and I'm like, I don't like who I'm. looking at, not physically, mentally, spiritually. I can see that there's nothing there. Because I knew how I was feeling. I literally wanted to go to sleep and not wake up. That's what I wanted. I just wasn't enjoying life. And I thought, am I drinking to numb that feeling? And that's when you realize you have a problem. You're like, hold on a minute. I'm drinking to forget the stress and the anxiety and the depression or my mind's in chaos, which works for a few hours. Then when those drinks wear off, two o'clock in the morning, wide awake, anxious, what's going on? What am I doing? I don't want to be here. So drinking to forget or kind of numb that feeling does work, but only for a short time.

And of course it affects every cell in our body. Alcohol is a toxin, it's poison, it's poison. So seeing myself, looking like that, thinking it's not doing your body any good, and you're certainly not helping your mind, what can you do? So you asked yourself that question. I asked myself. I think this is the thing that it's no good anybody telling someone else. No. You know, oh, like this is what you should do, you should do this, this. You have to find your path.

It's your why. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I try to tell people, they're like, where do I start? Where do I start? And I said, but you've got to find out why you should start. I don't know where you are. I don't know where you are in your journey, where you are in life. Maybe you've decluttered your house. Maybe you don't drink. Maybe. There's so many maybes. I said, you need to find your why. Why do you want, why do I? Why should I want to go from wanting to switch the lights off to healing myself? And why was it? Why should I do it? So I thought, well, if I carry on, gaining weight, I'm going to lose my mobility. I know cognitive decline will happen if I don't stop drinking and start eating properly and moving more. But I can't silence my brain. My brain was, I've got a very active brain anyway. It's literally bombarding me with ideas all day, every day. But this was like a constant noise. And I couldn't switch it off except if I went to

sleep. So that's why I wanted to sleep all the time to quiet my mind. So again, I went looking for inspiration and I looked online and I couldn't find anybody, couldn't find anybody. And then I found a monk. His name was Nick. It's such a non-munk name. Well, actually, he's got amazing background because he's actually a refugee that ended up living in America. He grew up in, so I think he was originally born in, I don't know whether it's Lao or Laos, but that's where he was born. And then he was in Thailand in a camp for children, like an immigration camp. And then he was also in the Philippines, then he went to live in America, so he's very American. So he has this background of an immigrant coming in with nothing and then suddenly getting this urge to be a monk.

He had this, oh, I need to go be a monk. So he's got the Western way of speaking and he understands the Western lifestyle. So when I was listening to him, he's making so much sense. And so he's saying, the first video I watched was about food. And this is what this was the switch in my brain. He said, I ate five times a day, five to six times a day in California. When I became a monk, I could only eat twice a day, and I could only eat when I was given. Oh, so they don't buy food. They have to be gifted. They have to be gifted. So they go around every morning with a big bowl, and the people give it to, it's called Arms. So people give them a handful of rice and a handful of vegetables, and then a handful of dessert, all in the same bowl.

So I'm thinking, Nick, if you can eat a bowl of food that you didn't choose with your dessert next to your rice, whatever, you have no choice and you only eat two meals a day. I have a choice what I can eat. I can eat two meals a day. If you can do it, so can I. So I'm challenging Nick. He has no idea. But I'm challenging him on screen. If you can do it, so can I.

So I thought, right, I'm only going to eat twice a day. So I'm going to eat breakfast and I'm going to eat lunch. And I'm going to stop at lunchtime because that's what he did. Now, I know most people would say, oh, but I like to eat lunch and dinner. Yes, I don't find that hard because of the social aspect in the evening. It is difficult. It is difficult. But I thought, I'm going to say, the first four weeks was awful. The hangar.

Oh, yes. Sean and I didn't like each other. We really did at the same time, right? Well, he started after me because... Brave. He started to, oh, I was hungry. I was so hungry. But it's not that it's the routine, it's the habit of eating.

So, you know, you're preparing a meal in the evening. It's an hour to get it ready. Then you sit and eat and then it's half an hour to clean up, clear up after dinner. That's gone. I mean, explain becoming plant-based because that was quite a big step. And it's not necessarily veganism. It's more plant-based. Yeah, I say plant-based because the difference between a vegetarian and a vegan is

vegetarians have friends. So most people don't like vegans. And I understand. It's so true. Okay. Veganism, people when they first become vegans, they become very militant. And I know why that is. It's because they know the damage and harm they've done to another being. And it's very hard to deal with that when you become aware of it. So they become very militant. And I have the utmost respect for people who will try and convert other people. I'm not. here to convert anyone else. We're all on our own path. We all can choose what we want to eat. If you want to eat meat, eat meat, it's nothing to do with me. So I don't sound vegan because of that, because I'm someone that loves eating plants. I just love eating plants. And I don't want to

convert anyone else because I don't feel you can. I feel that I can show people that by eating plants, you can exercise every day, you can have lots of energy, you can sleep, hours a night. You can feel full. You can feel well. You can eat amazing food and feel great. So I'd rather show people, then tell them. I went to Narcotics Anonymous for many, many, many, many years. And in Narcotics Anonymous, the temptation to tell everybody to go to an anonymous fellowship because it's so amazing is huge. But in these anonymous fellowships, they always say attraction rather than promotion and that's what you're doing you are attracting people to your way of life because you look so well and vibrant rather than going you should be doing this

because promotion puts people off really in a way doesn't it but it's the guilt you do feel incredible I did I felt incredibly guilty so how did my for the for cruelty to animal oh I see right it's it's it is based on your level of value how it started was I had a health scare about 12, 14 years ago. And I was told I had cancer. Or there's no doubt you've got cancer. So I thought, okay, if I've got cancer, how can I heal quickly? If I haven't got cancer, how can I stop myself? How can I prevent myself from getting cancer? So this is me. I research, research, research. And then all of every avenue, every road led to veganism. I wasn't exactly thrilled about that for someone who loved.

I loved cooking. And of course, everything was animal-based. And then I looked to other people and I thought, okay, I'm going to give it two weeks. They all say they feel amazing within two weeks. I'm not convinced it's not going to work. I'm not going to like it. Two weeks in, convert. I felt amazing. I felt fantastic. I felt fantastic. What's interesting is I'm on a journey through my life. And I'm really loving talking to so many interesting people on Begin Again. I'm just enjoying this so much. But eating meat is becoming less and less attractive.

And it feels somehow wrong. It's somewhere. So I'm actually eating almost no red meat anymore. And I was like, but it's happening by osmosis. It's the weirdest thing. I'm frightened of saying I am vegetarian or vegan. But I am doing it less and less and enjoying it less, a bit like Sean. I might have a meal and eat some chicken.

And it's somehow afterwards it's like, mm, doesn't sit right. Really interesting. I don't know why. I don't want to give up meat. No. But you don't have to. I mean, I think the thing is, if it's try what's, it's, it's try what's, right for you, when you start researching animal agriculture, it's a one-way ticket to plant acetate.

Yes. It's gruesome. And so I'm not judging anyone. Lots of us don't want to do that because we don't want to stop, but I think we all know that somewhere. I know. And when people attack me, I mean, I never tell people, oh, I only eat plants, but I went out to dinner with a party with someone. And I said, oh, is there something with just vegetables? Why?

I just want something with just vegetables. Oh, there's a vegetarian option. I say, oh, yeah, I don't eat dairy. Oh, you're vegan. Oh, right. And then I start getting a lecture about, God. And I was like, I just don't want to do any harm to anyone or anything. That's all I really want to do is go through life, not harming anyone or anything.

Why am I the bad guy? I mean, I guess somebody from the outside looking at where you've come from to where you are now, are you restricting yourself or do you feel like you're gifting yourself something? I feel like I'm giving myself the best chance to live a mobile life for as long as possible with my cognitive function. I don't want my son to have to look after me. No. I want him to have the best life for as long as possible doing what he wants to do. The thought of him wheeling me to the bathroom gets.

to be jumping every time. Right. Because I just think I don't want to be a burden to him. I don't want him to give up his amazing life to have to compromise his life to look after me. So then I pick up the jump rope and the kettlebell and I hate it. But after 15 minutes, I'm like, oh, I'm really glad I did that. Tell me your exercise routine. And how often, how long?

So it depends how hot it is, how long I can stand. But generally, I say 15 minutes, but it's normally 25. But I tell myself it's 15 minutes. So I do five minutes weighted speed rope, and I mean really super fast, super fast weighted speed rope for five minutes. Then I do kettlebell for about five minutes. Then I repeat that and then I finish with five minutes speed rope. So it's three sets of five. When you're talking speed rope, tell us what that is.

So it's a weighted skipping rope. And so you're going super fast. So you've got a skipping rope that has a weight to it. Because obviously you've got different ropes for different things. You've got the beaded ropes, which you're good for tricks. Then you've got the lighter ropes, which are good for tricks and also jumping at speed. Then you've got a weighted rope, so it's heavier than a normal rope. And that's where you tone your arms.

I've never heard about that. Oh, my God. And then I've got a Mai Tai rope. What's that? A Mai Tai rope. It's so heavy. And the rope is super thick. It's about almost an inch thick.

And it's super deep. It's what Mai Tai boxers use. That's a killer. But that gives you a full upper body work. full upper body workout. I can't do 15 minutes of that. And unbelievable cardio, right? I can't do 15 minutes of that. No.

I could probably do three sets of two minutes of that. But Skipping changed your whole body. Oh, it did. But it also changes your mood. When I was looking for an exercise to do at home, indoors with the aircon on, that I didn't need to watch anything, I didn't need to learn anything. I was just thinking, what's the most efficient exercise that I can do, time-efficient exercise that I can do. There's a full-body workout.

So I ordered this skipping rope. And I was like, I'm going to do 3,000 jumps. And I tell everyone on Instagram, I'm going to do 3,000 jumps. It's going to be so easy. I'm going to build up to it. I think I did 20 jumps. There's a film of me lying on the floor thinking I'm having a heart attack. My feet hurt, my everything's aching and creaking.

And I remember calling my son going, Seb, I've told people that, I'm going to do 3,000 jobs. I can't do it. What have I done? What do I do it? He was like, I believe in you. You could do it. Come on, mum, you can do it. Let's talk about the sponsors of this podcast. Zoe membership, a personalised nutrition program. I always get asked why I look after my body. And the answer, I want to look good naked. Joke. Don't worry. That's not it. I do it because I know what my health is worth and I want to have the best life. ever. I mean, every decade has looked very different from the last, but with age comes wisdom.

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From exclusively on Paramount Plus, it's the series Stephen King calls Scarious Hell. Everything here is impossible, but it's also real. Sci-fi vision calls it the best show streaming right now. We're running out of time and we still don't know the rules. Don't miss what the movie blog calls something you need. need to watch. Saving those children is how we all go home. From binge all episodes exclusively on Paramount Plus. Let's talk about navigating menopause, perimenopause. What was that like for you?

Well, mine is a little bit different because I had adenomyosis and endometriosis and I had a tumor on my ovary. So it was enormous, right? It was huge. It was huge. It was the size of a butternut squash. I mean, it was enormous. So that's when. And then I was told, it turns out I didn't have cancer, but at the time I was told, this is cancer, we've never seen anything so bad. And this is where the whole plant-based eating thing came from. So literally, wheeled in, everything's chopped out. Plunged into that.

And then they said, you need to go on HRT because you need to protect your bones. Every woman in my family has got osteoporosis, you need to protect your bones. I was like, okay, do I have a choice what HRT I take? They were like, why? I said, is there a cruelty-free option? They said, yes, there is. There's one that comes from yams. Cool, I'll take that.

So I went in with everything, came out with HRT. So I didn't go through menopause as such. So I went in feeling awful and ghastly. And obviously I got plunged into it, but you didn't get the symptoms. No, I didn't get the symptoms because I wasn't in perimenopause. I literally went, I was feeling great. Apart from I had all these issues that needed to be resolved. So I had low blood count and I was anemic and everything.

So then suddenly that's, I'm in, wheeled, and then I'm wheeled out with HRT, ready to go. So I didn't go through menopause as such, but I still believe that there's a time in a woman's life that this change happens. And usually that coincides with the hormones disappearing as well. So that's why I feel like there is a moment, there is a time women change. And I think it's the same time as the hormones disappear. Did you, did you grieve not? being able to reproduce anymore? Well, that's a bit of a, it's a bit of a strange one for me, because I wanted more children, but when my son was born, I had preeclampsia. I was incredibly ill. And we weren't sure he was going to live. He went straight into special care baby unit.

He stopped breathing three times within the first 24 hours. So that was very traumatic and thought, I'm not doing that again, did do it again, got preeclancy straight away, lost the baby quite early. So that's when I said, I don't think this is for me. I've got what I wanted, a brown-eyed funny boy. Why keep trying for something else when you've already got what you want? So I kind of grieved then for not having more children. Because it was interesting.

I knew I didn't want to have more children after I'd had my three. I think you know when you're done. Yeah. You knew when you were done. I knew when I was done. But when I did get to that time of my life and I thought, oh, okay, we're going to shut that door. Yeah. I still grieved and I thought, this is funny.

I know I don't want any more children, but I feel sad that I am not of child-bearing age anymore. Yeah, I understand that. So when I went in to have everything taken away, I was in so much pain. I would have done it myself if I could have. So I would have wanted to stamp on my uterus if I could have and kicking out the window because it was giving me so much pain. However, there was that thought process of, am I less of a woman? Yes. I think, yeah, I think that's what it is.

Yeah. Am I less of a woman? Is a woman just a childbearing person? Do I have less value? Do I have less? Am I a real woman? You know, it's kind of, you know, there's all his thoughts. But then for me, the justification was I don't have to be in pain for three months,

three weeks every month. So that the grieving kind of judging my value disappeared quite quickly when I realized I could wear white jeans again and I didn't have to watch. about bleeding all over the sofa. You know, I used to go to meetings, and I was in Taiwan or something like that in a meeting. And, of course, I needed to go to the bathroom every 10 minutes because I was bleeding so profusely.

And I'm in chronic pain. So it was so nice afterwards, not having to plan my month around when I was going to be menstruating and how much protection I could cram in my other region so that I didn't bleed on any sofas or things. So, yeah, so the balance was the prose was so good that I didn't really judge my, the value of, am I less than for a woman? I wiped that off straight away. So, you know, assuming now that like not being, not being able to create life anymore is not necessarily everything there is to being a woman.

No. What is being a woman now to you? Well, I think women have, we've got. so much power and we've got so much potential, we've got so much value, but we are sold by society that, you know, you've got to know you 10 years young. In fact, if you don't, you're failing at life. And you've, you should have work done. But if you have work done, oh, look, she's had work done. So you can't win. If you have the treat, if you have the tweakments or treatments, she's had work. So then you'll judge for that. If you don't have them,

then you'll judge for that. So you're going to get to judge regardless. But I think the thing is, I think it's up to us to tell younger women, girls, that it isn't just your period stop. That's as much as I knew about the menopause, your period stop. And I was like, oh, this sounds great. Yeah, I knew your period stop, you get bloody angry. And sweaty. You know, that's what I'd heard. And I was like, this sounds terrible.

Now, I feel like it's our duty to show them that it can be amazing. Oh, it's the best thing. I, in fact, a few people have messaged me who've been following me for a while and they were like, oh, the one girl in particular, she was 35 and she had to have a hysterectomy and she messaged me and she said, look, I'm really, really worried, you know, that I'll feel less of a woman and I can't have more children. And so I had this exchange with her, lovely, lovely girl. And she was just like, oh, really? Oh, I said, go by yourself, the best pair of white trousers you can and put them ready to put on for a couple of weeks after you're up and you'll be so happy. And I said, you know, you've got your two children. children, you've got everything you wanted. Now, this is a time of freedom. If you have to have it, just let it go. Thank it for its work, for giving you two children, but say goodbye to it. Quite nice to write a letter. Yeah, it would, well, although I was kicking one out the window. Yeah, I mean, you would just go, just telling you, it's time to fuck off. Like, thank you, goodbye. Yeah, but we should thank it for what it did. Yeah. Thank you for my son. I mean,

thank you for my son. I'm forever grateful for my son. He's the most amazing human being. and my uterus gave me that opportunity to grow him. But I think we've got to kind of help younger women understand that it's not as simple as your period stop. You do need to be prepared. You do need to look at for brain fog. You do need to look at for all of these symptoms. And if you need HRT, go and get HRT. I think we'd all agree if a guy had his testicles cut off.

The first thing we'd offer him is testosterone. So as women, we've lost that function. We should have that function. And also with a history of osteoporosis in your family, you would be prescribed it anyway. Exactly. But the oncologist said to me, there's no debate. You have to have it. You're too young not to have H.R.T.

I said, oh, okay, that's fine. So I never had those symptoms. And I'm grateful I didn't because I've seen people who've really struggled. But I think also we need to look after ourselves as well. We need to eat properly. We need to exercise. and we need to realize the potential that we've got to live an active life in a good form for longer. I am, because I've been looking at, you know, the food that you eat, you often show us like what you eat in the morning and what you eat in the day.

And there's often kind of naughty bits in there. I mean, you eat a whole pizza once a week. Is that true? It's true. Absolutely. And it's not a small one. It's a big one. I eat a whole pizza.

This is the thing. I don't limit what I eat. If I want ice cream, I'll have ice cream. If I want pizza, I'll have pizza. If I tell myself I can't have pizza, I want pizza. So I have a pizza once a week. If I wanted it twice a week, I'd eat twice a week, but I don't. I eat chocolate, but I eat dark chocolate.

But I don't have a sweet tooth. But if I want chocolate, I will eat chocolate. But everything is homemade. There's no added sugar. Okay, so I need to talk to you about this. I've been thinking about this a lot. I've just recently, again, because I did do it for about four years, given up refined sugar. So no sweets, chocolates, biscuits, cake, da, da, da, da, but I am at all or nothing.

Like, if I have one biscuit, I'm off. So I just, I'm not doing it. I eat fruit, that's sugar. Mostly kind of berries. I love berries. I love an apple, things like that. Anyway, I'm three weeks into that. I feel amazing.

More energy, for sure. No doubt about that. Anyway, but when you're saying, I make everything fresh, I love, your food looks amazing. But I'm here, I'm having sort of food on the hoof. I'm going to eat here. What do I do? But that's the thing you have to be prepared. You either need to make sure that the food that you want is available or you need to take it with you.

Right. And this is the whole eating out thing as well. Yeah. It's the whole eating. Yeah. It's meal prep. But you see people look at my meals and say, oh, that took hours. No, they didn't.

If you see like a chocolate muse I make, it takes three minutes. It's silk and tofu with some cacao and maybe some melted chocolate, maybe. That's it. You just blend it, sticking in the cup, it's ready. I don't. It's so hot. So basically, I'm renting this little cottage. It doesn't really have a kitchen.

It has four hot plates and a sink. And I bought an air friar and I've got a fridge. That's it. I don't have anything else. I have a workspace this big. Wow. So I think people think I've got this amazing. No, I don't.

I have an amazing kitchen. It's really tiny. So I have to make it in a short amount of time because it's so hot in there. Yes. I literally want to make it and eat it. So when people see, oh, well, she's got out. It's a white for her. She's got the time.

It doesn't take long. You know, how long does it take to slice a papaya and slice some more fruit and put it in there with the dollop of silk and tofu. It's minutes. It's just being prepared, eating fresh and taking food with you. And I don't eat out in the evening. So that makes it easier for me. Because when I go out for a meal, then you have to compromise. Yeah. Yeah. And that is quite difficult. Yeah. But luckily, I mean, I'm half, I'm one foot in, one foot out. I do a bit of compromising, but I do try and make stuff at home. But it is, food is a hard one, I think. I'm interested to talk to you about your spiritual journey because obviously you were talking to Nick and he's opened your eyes

to a different way of life through his Buddhism. But what is your journey with spirituality and have you found that that's developed in midlife? I've never been a religious person. I'm still don't have a religion now. I just call myself curious. I'm just curious. I will remain curious forever. So I didn't grow up in a religious family. I used to go and do bell ringing and I sang in the choir because there was nothing else to do where I lived. That literally was the only way you could meet other children. So I found myself a bow ringer and people were like, you're a bell ring for the church.

You must be really religious. I'm like, oh, yeah, I suppose I should be, but no, I'm not. So that was my interaction with the church as the child was singing in the choir and bell ringing. But I've never been drawn to a particular religion ever. I'm fascinated by religion. I'm fascinated. I've always thought, well, which one do you choose?

because everybody thinks theirs is right, which one do you choose? So I know that there's more to life than we know. So I just prefer to remain curious as to what that could be. I think we have more powers than we know. I know that I can feel energy from another person. Totally. I know that I know if someone's talking about me in a nice way and I'll call them. They go, that's really weird because I was just thinking about you an hour ago.

So I think there's powers that we don't know about. But when I was talking to Nick, now Nick is a Buddhist. Wait, wait, wait. I need to rewind there. What? So you were watching Nick on the screen and now he's your friend? Yes. Do you have what?

Yeah, it's a bit strange. I love that. So I was watching Nick and Nick is in his orange robes and he's got the trees behind him. And he's like, it's just a picture of calm. And I'm watching Nick and I'm drawn to Nick and I'm listening to him and I'm loving everything he's saying is calming me down. And then he starts talking about how Eastern wisdom can help us in our Western lifestyles. And I watch everything. I just, I'm consuming every word he's saying and I'm thinking about it,

thinking about every single aspect of his beliefs. But he's not preaching about Buddhism. No. He's talking about his philosophy and wisdom. So I'm watching Nick. And then a little while after I messaged Nick and I just said, I just want you to know that your videos made a real difference to me. Thank you so much for going to the effort of making these videos.

You've completely changed my life, and I want to thank you for that. So is it more his philosophies and teachings that you've taken on board as not necessarily Buddhism? It's not Buddhism. It's not Buddhism. Because Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion, isn't it? But I think we've lost our sense of self. I think we've forgotten how to take care of ourselves. I think we've forgotten that we have a soul.

I think we see ourselves as these machines going through life, eating, working, being, but we need to take a step back because we're not coping with our lives very well. So when Nick was talking about stresses, so when you start to meditate, imagine all your stresses, and then imagine them falling to the floor, I thought, oh, that's really powerful. So you're not saying they don't exist. You're saying they're now on the floor, so they're not as important. So it's just... I love that.

I just felt that when you said that. Did you? Yeah. Because you can visualize all of these. Yeah. It's so powerful. Yeah. But so my spiritual journey has not been for a specific religion, but I've opened myself up to what powers I have. The power to control my stress, my anxiety, to open my mind, to relax, to be present. These are all things that you're talking about, but I think they're very hard to get to. Again, in the last three weeks, I've started meditating every day. I'm just on 10 minutes at the moment. Yeah, it's hard. Some days I'm just breathing, listening, thinking, but like, you know, clearing, but I'm just thinking, thinking. And other days I think, wow, I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it, I'm in it.

They're hard to achieve and they take, again, a bit of focus and a bit of time. But anxiety and stress are two mega midlife things. What does it feel like? You feel like you've offloaded a lot of that. How is that? I think I've mastered anxiety and stress now. I think I have, Dina, I think I've done it. And it is through things like visualising.

If you imagine them dropping to the floor, they're not important. And then if you imagine things that you've ever been, can you remember all the things you've ever been stressed about? You can't. No. Because we always, as humans, have to be looking for a problem to solve. So if we haven't got one, we have to make one. And so listening to Nick and to Michael, it's really made me think differently.

Now, of course, they lead very different lives. They get up at dawn. They have breakfast. They're meditating. And they're doing Buddhist things all day. They don't have to earn money. They don't have to do anything for anyone else other than to share their wisdom, learn more wisdom. So they don't have anyone saying, oh, you need to pay your mortgage.

Oh, you know, your electricity bill's gone up 20%. But they both grew up in the West. Yeah, they understand it. And they both lived in the West. And Nick in particular was a therapist in Malibu. And he realized that all the time people were coming in for therapy. It was always the same thing that he was giving them. So it was always, okay, you need to go within, you need to find quiet, you need to let go.

You need to look after yourself. You need to eat properly. You need to sleep. All the basic human things. We need to nourish ourselves. But meditation, I struggle with meditation because of these hundred ideas in my brain at once. And Nick calls it monkey brain. And I'm like, that's such a good name because I've got monkey brain.

And he says if you can't meditate, then you should listen to chanting because at least you can switch off. When did you write the Midlife Edit? So I started writing it on and off a few years ago. but I would never have written it until I met a lady called Georgia and she believed in me enough to say, I think you can write this book. So then I'm writing it for her. I'm not writing it for me.

If it had been left to me to write it for me, I'd started three books before and I never finished them. But then suddenly I'm writing it for someone else who's relying on me to finish this book. But I think with this book, I'm not sure people are going, it's probably not what people are expecting. I think people are expecting a cookery book, a vegan, or we're all going to talk about vegans. I'd quite like you to do that as well, though, please.

Well, I know, people keep asking me about chocolate moose. You had me at chocolate moose. So I think people are expecting it to be a bit more fun. But this is basically everything I changed in my life. This is talking about. Oh, this is the key to being you. Like, you look happy. I am.

You look fulfilled. Yeah. You look present, calm. Yeah. Not anxious. No. And you also feel that you are in your true self. Authentic.

That's what we all want. To be authentic. I think the thing is that a lot of my life I was, I wasn't being authentic because I was so driven by money and success that I compromise my own personality to fit in. Because I had to. You know, I was in a very male-dominated environment. I was in software, and everybody was male. I was the only female. So I had to outsell all of them in my head.

And I did. I outsold all of them. I only killed myself in the process. I was trying to do it because I was so driven. But I wasn't being authentically me. I wasn't dressing like me. I wasn't speaking like me. I toned myself down to fit in.

And then I got to a point where I was like, but this, when am I going to be me? This is how to be you. Yeah. And I want to end on, you touched on something that is so enigmatic, I think, and I'd love to hear to you, what is a soul? What is a soul? You see, I think a lot of people think there are souls inside, but I think our body is like an avatar for our soul, and we are, we're radiating energy.

I think I believe that we're all connected. I believe we're all the same. We're all nobody, but we're all somebody. And I believe now, through Nick and through everything that I've learned, that our life is a journey to learn as much as we can, to let go of lots of things that we've been conditioned from birth to comply with, conform with, or aim for, But actually, our life is about experiencing everything, every emotion and everything there is that Earth has to offer.

So for me, I can feel your energy and I like your energy and I hope you can feel my energy. Some people are like radiators and some people are like drains. They'll just drain your energy. So for me, I feel like I need to go through life harming as fewer beings as possible. and to just share my light with the people. I found a light in the darkness. I was in the darkness. I wanted to turn the lights off.

I found this light and it's so bright and it's so vibrant. I want to give it to other people. So I feel that that's my kind of mission now. And I hope people can feel that through my words, through my presence, through however I'm presenting myself. I feel that our soul is a journey. Our soul has a journey of waking up. We have like an awakening to our potential.

And some people never, ever get that. And I have. I've realized my potential. I've realized I was worrying about things that didn't matter. We're magical. We're magical beings. And we don't all look the same, but isn't that great? And we're not all on the same path.

And learning to let go, that was magical. Expecting things from other people and realizing I am on my own path. And life can be amazing and incredible if you want it to be. But that's what I think a soul is. It's our energy. And I don't believe we disappear when we die. I don't know where we go. But I think we go somewhere.

I'll see you there. How about I'll save your seat? In a few years. Oh yeah, not yet. Yeah, let's do lots of living first. Definitely. Thank you. Oh, you're so welcome.

I've enjoyed it. Thank you. I've really, really enjoyed it. Yeah, me too. We've gone on for another two hours. I know. But thank you very, very much. And please write the book.

Well, I really, I really enjoyed it. Well, I really enjoyed talking to Gail so much. I mean, I think basically what I admire in her is her courage because she's done something that I constantly dream about doing, simplifying my entire life, letting go of everything, letting go of material things, and seeking her true self. And she hasn't just talked about it or thought about it or thought about how lovely it would be.

she's actually done it. And I really admire people who do that. But not only who've done that and that it's worked out so well for, I think what I got from her is when something happens to you and it's very hard, you have to look at

what do you want to happen now? Do you want to change? Do you want to make your life better? Why do you want to make your life better? Okay, well, let's go do it. And only you can do it. You can't wait for someone else to come and help you do it or come and make you do it. That's never going to happen.

But I like the why is this happening? Why do I need to change it? Okay, now I'm going to go and find out how to do it. And that she's not hugely well connected. She wasn't hugely famous. She went out and just like all of us, she just went to research. She went to find the people that she needed. And it wasn't like she got to meet them.

I mean, she did eventually, but she went and found the people that she needed, got what she needed online, and grew as a person. And the other thing I love, I think we get to midlife and we think, well, this is it. The mould has been made.

We can't change. But we can. She's really inspired me.