Begin Again with Davina McCall - When I Thought I Was Going To Die… I Realised I’d Never Lived For Myself | Dearbhla Mescal

Episode Date: February 19, 2026

One mother’s journey to self-love, resilience, and reinvention. In this powerful and heartfelt episode, Dearbhla Mescal, mother of Oscar-nominated actor Paul Mescal and singer-songwriter Nell Mescal, shares how a life dedicated to her children’s dreams transformed into a life of self-discovery and strength after a life-changing cancer diagnosis. For over three decades, Dearbhla prioritised her children's needs, guiding them through their own ambitions while silently putting herself last. But when cancer entered her life, everything shifted. Through her personal battle, Dearbhla explains how facing mortality became the catalyst for her to finally embrace herself, her body, and her own dreams. From navigating motherhood with three children chasing their dreams, to witnessing the highs and lows of a 30-year marriage, Dearbhla reflects on the lessons of love, sacrifice, and resilience that have shaped her journey. This episode reveals the profound transformation that can happen when we start prioritising ourselves , even after years of putting others first. This is a beautiful testament to the power of reinvention, the strength of family, and the importance of loving yourself, no matter what life throws your way. 🌟 Comment, and follow us for more inspiring stories of strength, transformation, and growth. Finding Joy out now: https://www.waterstones.com/book/finding-joy/dearbhla-mescal/steve-doogan/9781804442876 Follow Dearbhla:https://www.instagram.com/dearbhlam/ Follow us here: 📸 www.instagram.com/beginagain 🎥 https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod  (01:32) Intro to Dearbhla Mescal, Her New Book and Her Kids(03:46) How to Finding Joy in the Everyday(08:11) Dearbhla on Her Time in the Police Force and Finding Her Voice(11:40) Authenticity and Finding Joy in the Small Moments(15:25) Becoming a Parent and Facilitating Your Kids’ Dreams(27:59) Airbnb Ad(29:00) Lind Ad(30:06) The Turning Point(30:53) Discovering Her Cancer Diagnosis(38:24) Telling Her Kids About Her Diagnosis(42:54) Facing Cancer and Having Deep Gratitude for Life and Love(47:07) How Cancer Brought Loneliness, Grief, and a Gift(53:00) Beginning Again After Cancer(55:58) The Greatest Gift We Can Give Our Children(01:02:25) Learning to Take Up Space and Pursue Your Passions(01:05:23) Discovering Anxiety in Midlife(01:07:12) Paul, Nell and Donnacha's Reaction to Her Book(01:09:12) An Emotional Rendition of 'The Kiss' by Her Daughter Nell(01:13:46) A Special Gift for Dearbhla Sponsored by: Airbnb: Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.co.uk/Host  Lint: Discover Lindt Excellence… Expect Delicious. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the Power Move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real Power Move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence. And accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new Power Move. Life is so precious. And I have cancer. I remember thinking, going to die?

It's really hard. How did you do it? I think... Today, I am joined by the incredible Derbler Mescal, a brilliant author, and mum of Nell, Donicaa and Paul Mescal. As much as cancer was happening to me, it was happening to them. Oh, my kids are pretty brave. She shares how we often find ourselves growing smaller just to survive in a world that doesn't always make space for you. My voice rattled inside me for a long time.

I think it's what we want for our kids that their voice has heard. I've got something for you as well. Just brace yourself, okay? We talk about falling in love and how life has got an unrelenting way of really testing your strength together as a couple. When you're in a couple,

it's about your dreams and my dreams. And if you're blessed and you get a baby, suddenly nothing else matters. You've been married. How many years now? 32. The hardest job I have ever done. And she talks really honestly about some of her darkest

moments. This is the body that was in the battle of my whole life. I had to love her. And that was the gift of cancer for me. But I think one message from her comes through so clearly. You're always allowed to unfold and it's never too late to begin again. Daddler mescal. I love the fact that we were messaging each other last night. That's so cute. Yes. Thank you for coming to talk to me. Slid into my DMs. I did. And can we just tell people what time you and I were going to bed? It was very early. I think it was about half eight. It was embarrassing.

I said like, I don't want to tell you this, but I'm actually also in bed. Exactly. I was waiting for you to tell me you were at some disco and I was like, oh, and here am I. And I said, will I say then I'm in bed? Actually, I am going to say I'm in bed. Me. Thank you for coming. You know, learning about you was so magnificent because I really felt like a kindred.

spirit. I don't know if you've ever felt like that about me or anything I've said, but I felt like, oh, I get you. Yes. And the first thing I want to talk about, because today is publication day. I know. I can't believe I'm here. This is so exciting. It is, it is, this book is completely authentically me. It is my journey in a space of a time in my life, just in a period of my life that goes from Donica being 14 to Donica being 25

that's the period of time in my life that's your middle son Sorry that's Donica I'm my middle guy Yeah So Paul's 30 Yeah so I'm just going to explain here Oh yes

You are the mother of Paul Mescal Yes I am But you have three children I do have three children All equally important Yes You got Donica And

So Paul is 30 Just recently Donica is going to be 27 in July and Nell is 23 in April. My baby. Amazing. I know I can't believe I have a 30 year old. Yeah, it's so weird, isn't it?

That is like... How did that even happen? I just, I have no idea. I find that and that's the most interesting part of mothering, I think, as well. That you have to mother, like, they don't need mothering now. So where do you sit? Do. But they do.

Exactly. But they don't. And so therefore, you don't want to be on top of them. but you want to be near them. You want to let them know that we're in the wings, always here. But yeah, he's, yeah, very lucky. The three of them are happy and well.

Sorry, I'm just wondering if you could quickly press subscribe. I mean, it's free. So can you explain to me a little bit about the concept of this book and bringing joy to yourself? Yeah, my couple. Yeah. this book obviously is a you know

I was writing little posts about things and then suddenly somebody said you know maybe we put it all together how it started was I was at a pitch and had a Dunnika's match it was freezing cold it was February big you know those coats with the fur your match day coat

Yes, yes, with the hood Yes, with the hood And it was like little igalus And this mum came up beside me And our little are literally our huds Literally tied in So now the children are playing and we're going Yes, that's great

But we're having a conversation We were sort of going yes, yes, yes I saw the goal Anyway, how many times did I say that I saw the goal and I never saw it That touch was brilliant You were fabulous But this lady

was going through stuff. And she just said to me, when is it my time? Okay? So I'm standing there and I'm going, oh, it's not now. Now we're shoulder to the wheel. Now we're mothering.

So, you know, it's... And we had a big conversation. And I said to her, do you know what? We're going to have to see the joy in our day that's totally chaotic, totally...

About other people. All that... Exactly. Yeah. There's no, we've got to focus, but we've got to do mothering. And then I got into my car and I was reversing and I caught my eyes and I said, what? Who are you giving advice and telling somebody that it's not their time, that they've to mother,

you know, how are you going to do this and live your life? So I made a decision to go kind of public on my Facebook at the time. and find joys and do it for 28 days. But can I ask you, when you did it for the first time? Yes. Do you remember the first post you ever wrote on what it said? What did it say? It was honest.

It was literally saying that from a conversation, I knew I had to do this. And so I was talking to the void, but obviously in writing. No videos at that time were just literally talking in, like writing into the void. that filling my cup was becoming urgent. It was becoming urgent.

I needed to find something. Like all the matches that you're at or all the wins that your children get, that's their business. What was filling my cup? And my life was very, very busy. Like most people that I was living and working and around,

we were all chaotically busy. Like that conversation was so important because this person was vulnerable but also ready to engage in something different and maybe 28 days and I chose 28 days because I was told

that if you did anything for 28 days it became a habit. Oh, well that's really clever. So I kind of said 28 days. It has to be 28 days. So you were doing it for yourself and for your friend, really. Oh, completely.

I was holding myself accountable for her. So that in my... Just say something. Eddler. Oh, mad. That's really nice. Thank you. You were doing something for her.

Yeah. It wasn't just for you and I... That's a really lovely thing. Thank you. Yeah. I see you. Thank you. Yeah.

So nice. Thank you. So yes. So you're doing it. You're doing it? Yes. I... I...

I did feel I had a voice. I did feel that I wasn't necessarily being heard in my job. I wasn't being heard in the life I was living. Do you mind telling people what you were doing? It was quite a big job. I was a guard. So a member of Anghartha Shia Kona, which is the Irish police force. So I did that for 33 years.

Yeah. So how long had you been there at this point? So I joined in 1990 And that would have been So Donica was born in 99 So I was I'm going to say 15 years maybe Halfway through my service at that point

And a very Mel-dominated service So your love of words And they're not going to see that are they? I did When I decided You know As I was doing the joys the two of me

had to marry. I had to sort of you know sort of admit that the soft wanting joy wanting to fill my cup needed to also come into my working

life. I couldn't separate them and so I brought in a whiteboard to work to work on my desk because at that point I had got an office job so I was now in an office job and I put up

little statements jump in the puddle don't be afraid to get wet it's life's too short all those little you know at the time hashtag was the big thing you know eyes open heart full all of those things and it was really interesting to see

how people engaged at work people engaged at work at work. They drew little cars. Like they took up because I obviously had markers beside the board. They draw a little car.

They do a sunshine. Like, you know, and it was for me like these were frontline workers. Yeah. Doing really hard job. Yeah.

Coming from whatever incident, going out to another incident and maybe on, coming onto my floor would have been not, you know, you're coming up for something. So coming into my office and engaging with that.

And I mean, definitely probably thinking I was a little bit cookie. But they wanted. Yeah, they needed it. Yes. And it was funny how that really, me marrying myself, actually that's a really, even saying that, that's what I did. I married myself in my 50s. I married myself. I kind of

as at the end of my service knew I knew I was coming to the end of my service and the round peg in a you know in a square hole needed just I needed not to be shaking I needed to be actually

hear my own voice I don't know if I necessarily wanted the world to hear my voice but I definitely knew I needed to hear my own voice I think sometimes idea of putting your voice out there. Yes.

I totally understand what you're saying. It's not for other people to see, but it's so you can see it out there. Totally. That that's enough. Even if no one saw it, it would be fine. But you have done the act of... Yeah. Part of writing this was this was my authentic voice.

It was my words. It was... my connection to myself that I could store joy. You know, I could actually, so when things were, you know, a gray January is a great January for everybody. Yeah. You've got to think that there is hope for a blue sky or whatever it is, that you can find it.

And it is in the tiny things. It's not about the summer holiday. It is about the small things. It's about getting your coffee in a park and strolling. It's even the reflection in a puddle that light just dances off it and you just go, oh my gosh. You know, petrol in a puddle that gives that rainbow? There's so much joy in true life, you know, that's happening around us all the time that we miss.

In our space. In the smallest space. It's not, I mean, not everybody has access to being able to go out walking every day. Not everybody has access to a garden, but there is access to joy by just seeing, like, one of the things I said to my friend was that when she was coming in her front door and all the shoes were in the front door and she had to kick them out of the way because she's tired and she's just come in with all her own. And then she goes over to the wash machine and all the stuff is outside the washing machine. So we were having, like you can imagine this, this was a manic conversation of, yes, that happens all the time. There is no fairy in the laundry. Like it's just who is it?

Me. And I said to her, do you know what we have to do? We have to realise that we're not always going to be kicking the shoes. Eventually it'll just be two sets of shoes. So let's enjoy all the shoes, you know? And it's really important because it's fleeting. And when you're in the chaos and when it's hard, you don't realize it's fleeting.

you think this is it. This is, oh my God, my children are never going to learn. And they do go. And your joys have to be found within yourself. And so I, you know, that was one of the things I remember writing, you know, kicking the shoes, dance over them. And then when you're folding the laundry, like, you're putting something into it. Yes. Do it with love.

You know, like you're folding it. Like with intention. With intention. And so I try now, not every day. I can promise you it's not every day. But I do try intentionally to. It's like, you know, now it's WhatsApp. You know, I send them, like I was flying over today.

And I sent the kids, love you all. See you on the other side. And that'll land wherever at whatever point in the day that they see it. But those little, that's a little moment for me. It's like a kiss on the on the forehead when they were small. That's my kiss. And now with these grown up people. But folding the laundry or like when Nell comes home, like having her room nicely.

You know, just because it's, you want that. You just want them to know they were missed. Yeah. I want you to be gone. But you're missed when you're gone. It's kind of that balance of you're supposed to be somewhere else. But I do miss you. I do miss that.

Yeah. I mean, this is something that any woman that has had children, it doesn't really matter how old they are now. At some point, they will be negotiating their children leaving. And it was really funny because I was like, I'm not going to be, I'm not going to be that parent. I'm going to, like, my whole mission in life, give my kids wings. Wings, absolutely.

So they can fly away with confidence and never look back. Yes. And then I remember when the first one went, and I was like, thinking to myself, look back, look back sometime. Like, just a couple of times as it would be. Just, I'm still, I'm here, and I love you. Yeah. And what's, there's a lot I'd like to unpick actually in a moment, but, so you, you've talked brilliantly about, like, folding into your partner. So you've been married for how many years now?

32. It'll be 32 this year. Can I just applaud you for that? 32 years. Congratulations. Because we all know that marriages, you know, they take work. So hard. Yeah.

The hardest job I have ever done. And have no, I have no, I don't have any regrets for being in that, in that working it, working it and having to deal with it and I was talking to Paul yesterday because I said do you remember those times because we've come out that

you know that we've come out of And you're talking about Paul Senior sorry yeah yeah no apologise I just for anybody watching just to no so I was saying to him do you remember do you remember how chaotic it was do you remember how hard it was

and he said oh it was so dark so I felt kind of validated that like at least both of us felt it because when you're doing it

and when you're going through that hard work and that I probably wasn't always kind you know I you know

it was a case of you're tired I was tired I was you know have you not done the dishwasher you know and the little slam

of the mundane things things that just get under your skin. And we, we navigate, I think we navigated it probably not consciously. As in we didn't, we knew it was hard. We knew that this was, this was hard. But we also knew there was a, we were on a journey.

Yeah. Like we were on a journey. I partnered well. You know, I did really partner well. I mean, you fell in love. We did. And you were in love.

And so I think you always had that to go back to. Yeah. And that's important. It's incredible. You go on this journey and your description, please will you just describe how you see what happens to two people when they have children where they kind of become an entity of parenting. Oh, yeah. Like, when you're parenting, when you're in a couple, before you have children

it's about your dreams and my dreams and we're all going to be wonderful. It's all going to be fine we're going to be able to sail off there and we're going to be able to do that. And if you're blessed and you get a baby, suddenly nothing else matters.

Yeah. Nothing else matters. It's only their dreams. What do you mean you have a dream? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no dreams for you. We've got this person here. He's got to have the dreams.

She's got to have the dreams. Oh, and we're saying yes, and there's no shoulda-cudda-wada-we-is, we've got to do it. And I was that parent. Oh, my goodness, no shoulda-woulda-cudda. And Paul would be sitting there on... Can I say something? You are the first other person

that I've heard that says shoulda-woulda-cudder. I say that. Yeah. Should-a-ud-a-cudder. Like, rubbish. Rubbish. Don't do that. Did or did not?

And I didn't want any of my children to turn to me at 30. Yeah. And say, Yes. I coulda, I shoulda, if you had. do you know? And not that I was a yes parent. I was a yes parent.

I was a yes parent. I am a yes parent. What do you mean by that? I would say yes to anything that was about their dreams or their wishes or their hopes. It was yes. How are we going to do that? You know, and maybe we did. didn't get the new kitchen. We didn't do those kind of things because we were doing something,

we were doing something different. It doesn't make it right or wrong. We just, we dug differently. We kind of sat down in, in it and sort of said, okay, this is how. And it's a funny thing. We didn't actually discuss. When I think about it, we never sat down and said, okay, what are we going to do with these children? We're beautiful children. What are we going to do? That didn't happen. None of that happened. It was just a case of... You knew?

Was that the case? Did you know that was Paul senior, like you and Paul, were you on the same page immediately? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, we were on the same page. And even when it scared him. Right. Even when it scared him because he was, he's, um, money would have been, you know, he'd have always.

kind of been worried about money and I would have been, it'll come, it's fine. Where I was ever going to think that, but I became a guard, he became a teacher. Pensionable, permanent pensionable jobs. You know, when you're in a job that's black and white, you know, and you know, and you know, you're completely, and you're, I'm a guard. So I'm the lowest of, you know, you're in this place where my voice probably rattled inside me for a long time, I think. And I think parenting gave me a little bit of a voice because I was able to sort of say, yes, do. Okay, how are we going to do that? I think it's what we want for our kids is that they're seen, you know, that their voice has heard,

that they can be all they want to be, all those things that we want. But I think we really want them to be seen for me, I think that, yes, who they really are and that they're safe being seen as who they really are. Yeah. Can I say something else just for anybody watching or listening that I've heard you say a few times now

and this is a brilliant part of parenting is that every time you talk about your kids and saying yes, you say, how are we going to do that? And I think for a kid to understand, okay, right, well, the immediate thing is yes. Right. Yes. How are we going to approach that?

But they're part of that. It's such a brilliant thing to give a kid. You're giving them tools for action all their life. Yes. Yeah. What gift. Now, I can honestly tell you that wouldn't have been the thoughts at the time it was, but it was the full sentence.

That was the full sentence. And, you know, we took students in our house. We had six students in our house. My kids didn't have bedrooms. That can I also say, my parents did that. Yeah. Great gift. You meet lots of different people.

Lots of different walks of life. Huge. I sometimes wonder because my children didn't have bedrooms you know like they're their bedrooms I sometimes wonder

was that you know I question obviously you always go back and say was that the right thing to do the thing I know but you were doing that in order to help them pursue their dreams whatever they want to

yeah so I think and they understood that you take from one place absolutely but again with another there's that's the tug but this is the tug but this is the tug greatest lesson on earth you and it's what they saw it's what they saw and so yes they saw that if we're saying yes to this what has to happen in our house or in your life like if you want to play football and rugby and

hurling how do we get to all those places you know and you've got a sibling and you've got another sibling. And so there's three humans here all vying for the sunshine. They're all vying. You know, they all want, you know, up and out. I love that expression. Three children, vying for the sunshine. You know, I can just see that, like going for gold. It's like so, vying for the sunshine. It's such a gorgeous expression. And the sun is there for everybody. So it's not about the stardom and all the rest of it. It's about. just thriving and flourishing. You, my God, you're just brilliant parents.

Like, you and Paul. No, but wait, I just want to say something because I think there might be people watching who didn't have that. And when they were growing up, but how it is possible to be that parent even if you didn't get it.

Yes. So if you've got little kids like, you can you don't have to continue on a legacy in parenting. No, no, no. You become your own person. Yes. And you become the, you become the sunshine for your children.

Oh my God. Become the sunshine. Yes. Yeah. Wow. And that's, that's, I know, appreciate that's easy to say. It's easy to say. Well, look, what you did, you came up with a thing.

You went on Facebook. You did 58 days. you drove your one friend that's and did another one 28 days. Yes. So it's not easy. You did a thing.

I did. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Well, don't you. Thank you. Yeah. I think parenting is really,

really hard at the base level. It's really hard. it's babyhood, it's toddlerhood, it's schooling, it's choices, it's college, it's whatever, all the rest of that goes on. And I do think you can get lost on it.

Yes. And I think you can get law. I definitely felt at that time I had the guilt that I wasn't a stay-at-home mom, so I wasn't at the gate. I was a lick and a promise my children were sent, you know, I remember licking my hand and putting down one of their hair as they were getting into the car and then literally driving and say, I have to be at work, I have to be here, throwing them

literally out of the car, getting them into school. And then, you know, five minutes into your drive to your work, feeling that whole guilt of. Yes. And that, I think that part of me, that really stuck with me at one point, You were judging yourself. Oh, completely. There was a whole... And I think that was in my... I'm going to say, because Nell was born when I was 35.

So I'd say mid-40s to my 50s. This episode is brought to you by Airbnb. Now, a few weeks ago, I told you about Kat from my team who recently hosted her house on Airbnb. And while we were chatting, she was asking me where I'd like to go and I'd love to go to Thailand.

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S-UvW, German engineered for all. My 50s have been the blessing of my life. Me too. Incredible. I do. This is such an important message. Oh, it's so like I... What did you think of your 50s when you were 20? Like, who wants to do that?

I'm having the greatest time of my life. It's so liberating. You get to love your body. Yes. All of a sudden you actually love this vessel that you've... How did that happen? What was the thing that made you go, oh, wow. I look great.

Look at my gorgeous body as it is, like, walks and all, like... Yeah, fuck. I mean, I haven't eaten, we haven't even touched on that yet, but that was the wonderful pause in my life. So tell me, wait, okay, let's talk about cancer. Yes, let's talk about cancer. How old were you when you discovered that you had cancer? Four years ago, so I'm 57, so 53. I was turning 53. And what were your symptoms? This is quite useful for anybody who've got cancer and that might have some symptoms. I have multiple myeloma, a type of blood cancer.

cancer. Right. And what happened to me was in the February, I got a pain in my arm. And it wasn't from ironing or cleaning or going to the gym. Okay. And I just couldn't figure out. And my doctor heard me. And as you know, women are at that age, everything is put down to menopause. Yes. So you can be scapegoated into all these different things. And my doctor listened. And I started, she said, we'll start with just what's the pain, first of all. So we did all that. And eventually, I got sicker.

I was, my immune system was breaking down. Right. It was like, I was catching everything. I'm very sick. Like, you know, and I was going to Wimbledon, Paul, like my first, like, wow. like first plus one going to work with your child like it was like you know

I'm going to I'm going to your job and it was like that it was like that because I was that giddy because Wimbledon Oh I mean like mega so exciting Yeah yeah yeah And also all the people you see that

But it was like also But it also like we were in like the Rathorin And it was like all these beautiful flowers And it's like Everything's gorgeous And also the young people that are there that are working. They were all just so gorgeous.

But I went in and sorry, so I was going to this. And Paul was filming all of us strangers at the time. And I had never been to any of this. So I appreciated he was working. But where do you, you know, you stand over here. You make yourself as small as possible when they're working. I mean, it's natural. And but I had a cough that week going into.

women, and I'd been sick, so sick. And Nell had done her first gig in Barn and the Farm. Yeah, because Nell's an artist as well. She's the singer-songwriter. Crocky, like amazing. And she had had had her first gig and I had flown over and I'd done planes, trains and automobiles to get to Barn on the farm. Exhausting.

And I was really, really sick. And I had this cough. Can I ask you something? Did you think there's something wrong with me? I knew... Did you have a hunch? Yes. I knew that this was...

This was more than a tired mum. I mean, I was working full-time at the time. I was... There was something wrong. There was something amiss. And I literally... So I was on steroids to go to Wimbledon to stop the cough because, God forbid, I would upset Djokovic or whoever it was playing.

Do you know? I was like going like, imagine... imagine somebody coughing and it was me. Because anyway, that was my fear. And anyway, I went to Wimbledon and I had this amazing day and I watched Paul do his job and also have fun because he loves sports. So it was actually a kind of nice two-way thing. And we had great fun together.

And I had an MRI on the Tuesday. And I, of course, said, I'm going to. have the MRI late in the day because I was working. It didn't want to be disturbing work. And on the Thursday, so that was the Tuesday, Sunday was the men's final Tuesday. And on the Thursday, I got a phone call that there was something amiss. And Paul, my husband, was flying. He's a flying instructor.

Were you on your own when you got those news? At my desk because I was working from home. I was so sick at the time. I couldn't be in the office so I was doing I was constantly getting it exactly and I remember

ringing Paul and he was up in the airplane and saying to him you need to come home he said is it one of the dogs I said no I think it's me and so he literally

I'm sure he was longer than 10 minutes but it felt very very short and he was right there in the sitting room and I remember because when you hear cancer and I hadn't heard cancer

I'd heard the words like these big ridiculous words that don't make any sense to anybody who doesn't know anything about medicine that I remember looking at there was children playing on the green

we live in a semi-D and so there's a green right in front of us and I remember thinking going to die and totally I didn't know what cancer I had

but it was just that was where I went to I went to that the darkest place and the next day the doctor I went obviously to the GP and we were talking

and I said if you had this letter what would you do and she said I'd be in hospital then I had to figure out how do you go to hospital like my brain had totally just gone. Like, how do I go to hospital?

Like, do I just ring up and say, I have this letter and I possibly have and don't know, but can you look after me? And I did literally that. I phoned up and they said, where are you? And I said, 20 minutes away. And they said, come, ask for me. I'll meet you at the doors and whatever. And I went in and I happened to be in the center of excellence.

This hospital happened to be the center of excellence for my. type of cancer that I ended up having and the doctor that ended up looking after me is the doctor who does lots of research in it. So, you know, divine intervention, I don't know, but that Sunday, 3 o'clock, I'm walking into an oncology ward. And last Sunday, I had been in center court. And it was like that. When did they first say the word cancer? That, so at the end of the I knew they were looking for something. Right. So, you know, you start to know that they're looking.

And I remember being in an MRI and you know that and you're trying to, and I'm lucky I don't suffer from claustophobia. But I remember the do-da-da-da-da-da-da. And my joys, you know, thinking positively. And then I was, then I started saying, what can I live without? I can live without my boots. I can live with that. Can you live without?

So I was doing all the basics. And so I was doing all the bits that I could live without. Because it's a bit like when you know when you're in childbirth and it's hard. If they say we need to take your left leg off because the baby has to come, you're going to say absolutely fine. You do whatever I want my baby out. That was kind of where I was in here. So I was, you know, seeing beaches. I was seeing blue skies.

But I was thinking about what I could live without because I didn't know where the cancer was. I knew, I presumed it was in my arm as in that was, as it turned out, that was one of the, basically this type of cancer kind of breaks the bones. It kind of sucks onto the bones and that's what it can do. Usually you could be at that stage. So I was lucky.

I was, I was on that stage. And I was on chemo the following Friday, like literally. And I was supposed to go to Coldplay. Mel had got me tickets to Coldplay. in Paris. And we had it booked. And I hadn't told her. And she had her first single coming out.

So it was all like, it was, Dunnick had only gone to New York, four days. He'd literally moved to New York. And he was only gone four days. And Paul was in the middle of filming. So it was like this whole thing of... How, how, wait, wait, because this is also...

The reason why I'm asking you so many questions is that, you know, lots of us... Yes. One and two. two of us is going to get cancer. Right. And we're here in the room. Yeah, yeah. Which is scary. And also I think it is helpful to have just an honest open discussion about

it because with somebody that doesn't mind sharing because it is hard, it is frightening. And I think telling your kids and it doesn't matter how old they are. Nell was 19. Yeah. She was my... Really tough. So what... We have to do it on...

How did you do it? Well, we had to, I knew I was going into hospital. And I knew the kids would be ringing me and talking to me. So you can't pretend that you're not in hospital. And I was supposed to be going to Paris with Nell to see Cobley. She had got me these tickets and I was so excited. And I had to kind of say to her, so I knew I had to say, we're not going to Paris and we're not going to see Cobley.

So I got on a WhatsApp video, family call. For everybody. And we had done. Yes, with us all. And what's funny is, like, most of the time when we're doing video calls, it's who's got the news. What news? You know, it's usually kind of good news and stuff.

And the other thing I did feel was I didn't know the journey. I didn't know the cancer. I knew I, this is what I was doing. I was about to go into this journey. So I couldn't give them all the answers. And I was standing outside a shop. You remember where you're saying. It's funny, isn't these moments where you are absolutely?

Clear as day. Clear as day. And I remember Donica coming on the call and him being in New York. And Ireland had just beaten New Zealand in the rugby. And he was like so, like he was so excited. Like, what are you doing talking to me? I'm here having great time. right?

Wow. And knowing these words were going to have to come out in my mouth. And also it's a bit like you can't play around with the words.

No. You've got to be really honest because that's the other part for me that I'm about to go into this journey. It is full on

this is me. I'm going to be in it and I'm going to tell you exactly what's happening. so that we're not, you're not getting hedge, you're thinking I'm not telling you the whole story. Because that's not, that's not, well, it's also, that's not how we as a family work.

Work. So I knew that I couldn't pretend everything was fine. So I mean, I was, I told them it was a good cancer, which of course they cursed and said, there's no such thing as good cancer. So that was a conversation. And then I realized, so that was my soft, entry and then I realize, okay, let's, you know, I'm going for tests. This is what's happening.

I'm under a great doctor and we're going to be, I'm going to be fine. I don't know what length it's going to be, whatever. Antonica, you know, said, and the other thing that happened was they kind of each went off screen. You know, when you're on your phone, everybody's kind of, it's your big face in a family WhatsApp, but they were going off screen because they were hurting and I was trying not to hurt them because we don't want to hurt them.

Oh, fuck. And yeah, I remember that. I remember them going off screen and me trying to go, but it's going to be fine, I'm going to be fine, everything's going to be fine, it's all right,

I'm holding everything, I'm holding everything, everything's going to be fine. That's a really hard part of having cancer and being a mum and minimizing what you're going through.

Yeah. Completely. Completely. And then you go into fight mode. You just go into fight mode. Do you know what's interesting with that, I think, is that you and I, I think, are quite similar people

in that, you know, you find joy. I'm always trying to find kind of gratitude. Similar kind of thing, really, I guess. Appreciate it. Yes. appreciating something. And I remember coming back from hospital. I hope you don't mind me to know this for a minute.

But I came back from hospital. I found out like I had the lumpectomy and then I'd got the call and they'd said it was cancer and I talked to Michael about it. And I said, but you know, this is quite good. It's like the universe has punched me in the face and it's like letting me let go of the brain tumour and I can move on and you know, and he looked at me and he went, it's all right to be angry. And I went, I'm not angry.

I think it's actually going to be what I need. And he went, Davina. It's all right to be angry. I went, no, no, honestly. I feel like I'm bigger. And then I was just like, I got rid. And I picked up a fucking good. I can't even imagine.

Yes. You know, when you think. You've got to deal with this now again. And you're fucking, why the fuck? And it was, I don't let myself do that. Ever. ever. And it's primal.

Yes. It comes from inside. Oh my God, it felt so good. Yeah. And when I finished. I mean, I've been fucking punching cushions and throwing things and screaming at him. Yeah. And crying and he's just standing there and he's just watching me.

And then at the end of it, he goes. And you fell into here. Like, just like. Because you need to be held. Yeah, but you needed to let go. You need to go. but it's like it's

it was amazing yeah and I partnering well because it's so easy to partner when it's all you know sunshine and rainbows it's when it gets dark

and you know they're holding like Paul like literally physically held me rubbed my back when it was hard and when you know your head even feels heavy

like I couldn't even get over how heavy my head felt. Really? I was like going Oh my God, you know, it was like God, how weird.

It was the weirdest, like it felt like it was balancing on my neck. Like it was felt so there was, I was public about it. I spoke to the kids and I said,

I'm going to talk about my journey. I don't know why I wanted to do that. Yeah, what? I have, now looking back. Because they're all in my highlights. So I've saved them which is,

I haven't, gone back, which is, here's another thing. I'm four years. So I'm two years post transplant, stem cell transplant. And can we just let everybody know where you're at now? I'm in remission. So I'm, I'm really doing very, very well. And I'm blessed with the care that I got. And the love I'm held in. I don't take that for granted. I truly do. I truly don't. I don't take the love of my kids for granted. Because as much as cancer was happening to me, it was happening to them. And which there was, there is periods where you are so focused on taking the tablet or taking

the injection or all the things you have to do to stay well that their journey kind of of gets a little bit, it's kind of like your journey's here and their journey's kind of spinning off slightly. I completely, completely know what you mean that you, this is the problem with being ill. Yes. You're alone. Yes. And everybody else is together. Yes. Only you can go through this. And only you are. Weirdly, sometimes a bit lonely. It's lonely. It's like being lonely, but not alone. But not alone. Because you know you're not alone. You know, I knew. It's such Mad.

It is very mad. And it's and you know So recently I cut my hair and I totally had like my hands are kind of shaking

grief. I think it's grief grief. Grief came calling that I suddenly am looking at myself and I'm going oh my God

this is like Darvla, you look like you did when you were coming out of cancer. Which, of course, I don't. I know I don't. Like in my head, I know I don't. But it was this, I couldn't explain it. It just came from within sight, you know, and like Nell was in Nashville last week. So when I phoned her, I obviously go to therapy, thank the Lord.

And she, you know, we worked through it. Like we had the conversation that I didn't grieve. I didn't grieve cancer. I still to this day, you know, when you talk about my 50s, believe cancer was gifted to me. And I do see it like that, which I know sounds ridiculous. But it stopped me in my tracks. It made me refocus.

It made me grateful for the body. Like, it made me grateful to be able to hold my skin to inject it, you know, to embrace my belly to... Tell me how you did that. I love this idea of you learning to love. Love. It was Paul took a picture of me. We had gone on a little breakdown to Clonacilty.

And I wasn't very well, but we were going away. And we just went away for the weekend. And I loved to swim in the sea. And I got into the sea. And as I was coming out of the sea, he took a picture. I didn't look like a James Bond woman. It was totally a 53 or 2 year old woman getting out of the sea, you know, trying to get up over the ledge. So, you know.

And it was this person that I put it up as a joy actually. I shared it that this was me fully and completely me in my skin. The saggy arms, the, you know, like not tanned in a mum. me swimming suit. Like, you know, it was like a, you know, one piece, ordinary, just me. It was like I could see Dervla. I could see the whole woman who had been gifted three children who had fought with her. The whole of my life, like the whole of my life, like too big, too small.

Well, I was never too small, but always too big, you know, and trying to fit into my uniform and I had a big uniform and I had a small uniform and it was always like kind of be good to be in the small uniform. So this constant battle and suddenly this is the body that was in the battle of my whole life. Love her. So I fell in love with myself. That was the gift of cancer for me. I fell in love with her strength. I saw beyond the wrinkles. You know? And I think there was huge joy that huge huge joy in that and I

you know it you know my cancer came literally I was eight months to retirement so I literally was fighting cancer

in the middle of my retiring so I retired in the middle of cancer and I did a small bow out if you know what I mean I didn't make a big it was just like

step out of that life and I came home to myself, which I really did. Yeah, I can see that. You know? I can see it. It was, you know, when you have cancer, whatever cancer it is. Because everybody's cancer is different.

It's like your fingerprint. Everybody's cancer is different. And everybody's journey is different. This, it is a, I'm, I feel. for me, the gift that it was for me was that I could begin again. Sorry. Sorry, there you go.

I could begin again. Literally, hair gone. New hair is going to come back. And I was in stem cells. So my whole, my whole blood was being renewed. So I was literally starting again. I was, first, from my blood.

It was from scratch. Wow. And I kind of said, this is a serious gift. But also, what about, like, who am I? And that's,

and that's, that's the thing. I had to, I had to re-engage with myself. I had to, you know, like when I was in hospital and you have to go into isolation for my particular treatment.

And, people were DMing me like joys like somebody from the Shetland's sent me their clothes blowing in the wind wait, wait I'm going to start crying Wait, people are sending you joys For you. Yes, people

People who I'll never meet I will, don't know And they were sending me joys like so like my joys had had come full circle things and it was that was real that like that like that's that to me was that people the empathy people had wasn't about cancer it was about me

knowing how much I loved being outside and being in my joys that people were saying well she can't be there so I'm going to send them to her yeah so these were like it was you know like very ordinary things really ordinary things tell me some of them can you remember oh I can

a mother I think in Auckland sent me her child just a picture of you know those duck wellies jumping in a puddle like just the wellies in a puddle um daffodils

like the sea because the sea is like it was just a place for me. But I distinctly remember the Shetlands because they don't get much sun. This was a sunny day and the wind was blowing

so this lady was getting her sheets dried. And I obviously didn't see them automatic like I was quite ill so I was looking into them you know periodically.

And And strangely, I knew I was going to be well. I knew. Wait, can you talk to me about that? Because I do feel like that is a thing. Yeah. That I think as we get older, you know, you've talked a bit about your younger years and not really liking yourself and having a lovely body but not liking it.

Yeah. And as you've got older, you get more wrinkles and you get this. Zygic skin. Creepy skin. But you're not like that. But you don't care. Like you like, in fact, not that you don't care. You love it.

Yeah. Like you love yourself. Yeah. And how lovely that is. Oh, that's so empowering. I mean, if I could say to every person, man, woman and everything between, to love the bones of yourself is the biggest gift to yourself. And, you know, if we're talking about parenting,

to gift that to your children, that that nobly knee or that crooked ear or that, you know, whatever your gorgeous divine quirk is, that if you love it, it first of all, makes life so much easier in every way because loving yourself means that you're open to everybody else's love. You know, it's a it's a no-brainer. like it's very hard to love somebody who doesn't love themselves

it's the hardest thing in the world because you're trying to get in to tell them how wonderful they are and they don't see it so I think I hope I've gifted my kids that that as an outsider

yeah and having read a little bit about them I you have and I think you know you have Yeah, I think they're comfortable. I don't mean that in an arrogant way. No, no, no. There are things in your heart.

Yes. Like we were just talking about. I was trying to say that in your 50s, you do kind of get to know yourself. If you shut your eyes and you think, what should I do? Oh. You always know the answer. Don't you? You know it even before you shut your eyes.

Yeah. When you're at the age we're at, being empowered should be shared. And when you sit in company with women similar ages, there is such wisdom. But we're all going through something so similar. Something so similar, but also so dramatically different in the sense that we've landed here. Like you land in your mid-50s suddenly. Like it is sudden because I don't remember travelling to here. You know, I could kind of land it here.

And I'm going, oh my gosh, I'm actually 57. I'm 57. I'm halfway to summer. I don't know where that is. But suddenly I'm able to say, I don't know where the next thing is, whereas all the other stages are, you've got to get down,

they've got to get that exam, and then they've got to go and then we've got to go on. We've got to make sure that we've got, oh, no, go out of it. And it's this list, this never-ending list. And now I don't have a list. Now I get to sit

and listen to myself, close my eyes and say, does this feel right? If it doesn't feel right, I think there's a whole phase of my life where I said, I mean, yes, I was a yes parent, but I said yes to a lot of things that I didn't really want to engage in. Because I wanted people to like me. I wanted people to think I was a good mom because I was making the soup for whatever.

a blessed reason that was. You know, the kids only wanted chips. But we're making soup. You know, and I said a yes. And I think I'm learning to say, I'm learning to say no. I'm learning to be okay with the no. I am. How liberating is that?

Is that? Is it? Hugely liberating. And it's scary because if you say no, obviously there's a fear of missing out. you know, oh, if I say no and, you know, gosh, you know, will they, will they ask me another time? Because you know, there's a whole period

where you say, oh, I go to that because, you know, they may not ask me again. So now I'm saying no in the basis that, well, if they don't ask me, I'm okay with that. My friendships, I think that's another thing that in your 50s, you kind of...

You kind of know who your people. people are. And you don't need any more people. No. Like this, like, I don't need a crowd. I just don't need a crowd. I need my people.

I have my people. And sometimes, you know, I do, I do worry that I'm getting to really like my own company a lot. So there's a lot of quiet time that I never, I would have wanted no, all the time to feel seen, to feel heard. No, I don't necessarily either. I need Paul. So there's a need.

I need Paul. That's nice to hear. Yeah, I need him. I need to be able to sit and get cross with him because he's on TikTok again. And, you know, he's sharing another thing into the family WhatsApp that you're all going, oh my gosh. ludicrous.

But you love him. Yes, I can hear that. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Very much so. Yeah. He's my person.

Yeah. God, isn't that lovely? It is. Well done. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very, I'm, I know I'm very lucky. I'm, you know. You're not lucky.

Yeah. Paul says that all the time. You created your life. Young Paul says that all the time. It's not lucky. It's you work it. You did. Yeah.

And you have. And you do. I think as well, men and women when they have children and they come together and they both parent this child and then it does feel like men often can keep their identity much more easily than women can.

Completely. And that, I was thinking of the... I facilitated dreams. Yes, exactly that. I facilitated. Yeah. Paul, my husband, really should have probably been an actor himself.

That's all, like he's grow, or his love. was always... What, where did you just... Graw. Graw. Sorry. Is that an Irish word?

His grour. Yeah, his grour. Passion. His grour. Oh, I love that. Sorry. I'll remember that. And, you know, and so I said to him, well, you know, go.

So we very, we were very young, a couple. And he went off and learned acting, went to school to see, to see if that was something. And then he wanted to fly. And he's now a flying instructor. So like I facilitated. Yes. But at the same time at your expense in a way. Yes.

Well, nobody did it back to you. Well, it's not even, no, actually, yeah, I didn't. What do you want? Okay. I didn't ask. Right. I didn't say it. I didn't take up space to say it.

And it's funny because when the book kind of started to become a, you know, viable. Yes. That's, you know, people were wanting this and, you know, could I do this? Should I do this?

Could I? Should I? And we were going up for our Christmas. So last Christmas, 12 months, we spent Christmas together. The five of us.

And we're in the van going up and the kids. First of all, where is legitimate, like, is this going to be legitimately your words? You're, you know. Yes. It's not going to be played around with.

No. Or edited. Exactly. So that was something that they were concerned about. And then the other thing they were concerned about was that once you put yourself out, you can't put yourself back in. And that's true. And you are open to other people's opinions.

And of course. And I guess, you know, two of them. on either. So I've, I've two public facing. Yeah, they would understand what that feels like.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And also very protective of you. And so that was their biggest concern. Then I'm always going to look at the comments. I look at the comments when people say stuff about my kids all the time. I'm getting better at it.

Definitely getting better at it. I'm taking, anxiety became my friend at 50. What do you mean by that? I didn't know I was ever I'd never thought about anxiety. I didn't give space for anxiety. I didn't know that it exists. I'm busy.

It's too busy to even acknowledge you if you were there. I don't know. I'm so sorry. I missed you. But at 50, that was the big. Again, I wrote a piece on my 50th birthday that she came into the room and she was at the table. this whole person filled with anxiety. I got anxious about car spaces. Would I get a car space?

In the biggest shopping center, you know, ludicrous things. And obviously you shared menopause and that was part of my menopause journey. I didn't know that. I knew so little about this body that I inhabit. So when anxiety came,

anxiety came at 50, 2020 came, you know, normal people landed, the world kind of changed. Everything was changing. And I... So that all happened at the time of lockdowns, COVID.

Yeah, it's quite terrifying, all of that. Yes. I mean... It's big. COVID was huge. Yeah, big. Like, in our children's lives

and everybody's life. And actually it's kind of it's kind of surreal now to even look back to you. Sort of go, we all did that. We all, you know, sheltered in place

and we did what we needed to do. Can I ask you something about your kids? Yeah. And so what they make at the book? Yeah. They are,

they look at they seem me. The fears they had went when they realized that it was their mammy's words. Yes. That nobody had messed about. Nobody had messed about them. Yeah, good.

That I was trusted. Which I did. Definitely, I felt trusted. And I also did find my voice in discussing what I wanted. Right. And you got strung. I did get, it's quite an interesting thing that. Because if you'd have done it in your 40s or your 30s.

Oh, well, it wouldn't. It wouldn't have happened because I wasn't, I wasn't the person I am. Yeah. You know, I also hadn't gone through the journey. There's a journey in that. Like I, you know, people talk about chapters and of your life. That's, that. Joy will be a part of my life forever because it is a practice.

Yes. And it has become. now I'm also very lucky I live with a glass half full and that's a very precious gift but you don't think it's because of this no I think I would have always been a glass half full

I think what happened was my glass started to seep because I was so busy so I wasn't filling my cup and so that's where the practice of joy came to filling it but I am very aware that

I come from a place of it's going to be great I do believe that I believe that with my kids it's going to be great Nell yes has actually sent her something

and she wanted to read one of the moments of joy from your book and she said that she thinks that you might know the one that she's going to read for us

Hi mum, hi Davina I hope you're having fun and you're not too nervous mum but I was asked to read something from your book finding joy and immediately knew I feel like you'll know which one I'm going to read but this is my favourite

it. It's called the kiss. I waved from my row, you didn't see me. I blew you a kiss at your bow, it never found you. I watched as you searched, your eyes locking hers, and my heart melted. The love you have for each of our children is all I ever wanted for them. To feel that kind of love, I believe, helps you love, helps you navigate the world, and all the loves they will have in it. It's the love of stories and fables. It's a love that shows up, that will hold you up, that will gather you when the path is uneven, or if you aren't sure. Yes, you missed my kiss, but I rejoice in the joy of knowing our children know a love such as yours. That's from my mum's book, and I'm very proud of her, and I'm so excited for her.

And yeah, she's one of my joys, so hope you're having fun. Bye, love you. Can I just say something? What a gorgeous girl? What does it mean to hear her say that about you, how proud she is, and about... Oh my gosh. She's, or all of them, but she,

she's so incredible. That particular musing or rambling was, her daddy was on stage. And he was looking for her. Like he looked for her and he found her. And I was, you know, waving at him and blowing kisses.

And then I realize, like, that's, you want that, you want your children to have that love. Like, you know, you want them to have that grand gesture kind of love. Oh, yeah. It's like that just sucks them up and breathes them in and loves them completely. Yes. You know, warts and all. And Nell is like, um, she has had her own journey. like she had so one of the honours of my life as a parent.

Yeah. Nell had um, scoliosis. Oh yes. And I got to spend five days in hospital with this child of mine. Watching her walk again and do all the things. And she's, uh, she's part me. I know that. She's the bravest part of me.

Actually, all my kids are pretty brave. Sounds like it. Yeah. They're all bravely. It's because they've got you in them. I've got one more thing. I don't want to break you though. I'm a bit worried I'm going to break you, Dervla,

but I've got something else for you as well. What is that? Just brace yourself, okay? Yeah. A little birdie told me that you were a plan. I'm not even going to tell you his name because when you see this, you'll know. He sent you such a sweet message as well. He sent you lots of love.

And he said, what a wonderful thing that you do. Charlie Macassie, I'm just going to say it for anybody listening, has done your beautiful drawing. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, it's such a pleasure. You really deserve it. Oh my gosh, I'm blown away.

Yeah, well, well done for making, having such a beautiful, positive impact on people's lives. Thank you. You know, I know you were kind of helping yourself, but. Yes, yeah, filling my cup. We're very grateful to you. You're a beautiful woman. Thank you for talking to us. We love you.

Do you. Love you. Thank you so much. Oh my God. You filled my cup so dimming.