Begin Again with Davina McCall - Women's Health Expert: It's Not Just Hormones! Why Doctors Get It Wrong For Women. Dr. Hazel Wallace

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

In this episode of Begin Again, Davina McCall sits down with women's health expert Dr. Hazel Wallace to have the candid conversation too many women are still waiting to hear. Hazel opens up about the personal loss that led her into medicine, why she made the bold decision to freeze her eggs, and how her own health struggles reshaped her career. Together, they unpack the systemic issues that continue to leave women misunderstood, misdiagnosed, and overlooked in healthcare. From PCOS and painful periods to fertility, hormones, and beyond—this is an eye-opening and empowering conversation that challenges what we've been taught to accept as 'normal.' With raw honesty and hard facts, Hazel shines a light on what every woman deserves to know about her body. 🎙️ Drop a comment: What part of Hazel’s story resonated with you the most? Follow me here: www.instagram.com/beginagain https://www.tiktok.com/@beginagainpod   Buy 'It's Not Just a Period' NOW: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Not-Just-Period-Reclaim-Hormones/dp/1035049597 (00:00) Intro   (00:00:56) Davina Intro   (00:01:53) Meeting Hazel and Her Background   (00:02:56) Losing Her Dad and Starting a Career in Medicine   (00:08:35) Finding Reliable Health Advice Online   (00:11:43) Leaving Medicine to Study Nutrition   (00:13:37) Why I Chose to Freeze My Eggs   (00:16:57) What You Need to Know About Egg Freezing   (00:21:16) How to Talk About Fertility With Others   (00:22:35) How and Why Women Are Overlooked in Medicine   (00:31:04) Understanding a PCOS Diagnosis   (00:35:16) More Than Just a Period: Rethinking Menstrual Health   (00:39:59) What Hazel Discovered Through Her Research   (00:43:39) Thank You to Hazel   (00:44:27) Davina Outro   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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There's five times more research done on erectile dysfunction when that only impacts 20% of men. But it's in my DNA or something as a woman to cope with everything. So could you give me three big learnings? What I want every woman to come away with is... I think that's the really most important thing. Wait! This is revolutionary! And actually, women are more likely than men to do.

die from a heart attack in the UK. One of the big parts of it is if we see a man coming to the hospital, we think he must be serious, whereas women are often seen as being a bit hysterical. Can we just get angry about that? How long are we going to have to bang on about that? I know. But with your body being minimised, when you find a partner who hears you, it's incredible, isn't it? Those little things just go a long way, so then girls don't think, like, I need to suffer in silence. Thank you for what you're doing for women and always having our backs. I'm talking to Dr. Hazel Wallace today. Her new book, It's Not Just a Period, is out.

And I'm going to be talking to her about why she got into the medical profession, about why it is that it's so important for us to talk about this and how we can best support each other through being a woman. So please let me know what your favourite moment was from this pod. And if you could also like and subscribe, that means that we can continue bringing you brilliant content like this. It's just such a pleasure to meet you because I feel like we've connected. And obviously we've talked to each other before. But it's just really, really, really, really nice to have you here.

I'm so excited. I'm so excited. And I also just want to say thank you for what you're doing for women and young women. and always having our back. So thank you very much. And thank you because I feel like I'm following in your footsteps in this space. Well, it needs to happen and it needs to be done. So we're celebrating your new book.

I'm just going to hold it up here. Not just a period. Yes. We were talking before about the colours of your books. And I was like, oh, it's lovely. You've chosen kind of similar colours for the covers of all your books. But can you just talk me through why? what was the reasoning behind it?

Yeah, so I feel like in the space of like women's health and menstrual cycles, it's often just books are very medicalized, a bit boring. You don't want to gift them to someone or take them on the tube. So I wanted to really like normalize the conversation and also create a book that people are really proud to have. And like a nod to the feminine energy as well. A nod to the feminine energy. Why don't we harness it?

Harness it. So, Hazel, obviously, you became a doctor and then you went into nutrition afterwards. But what kind of drove you into the caring profession? Was it something that you'd always wanted to do? Yeah. I will try to give you the short version of a really long story. We love the long story. You love the long story.

Okay, I'll give you the long story. Take as much time as you want. So I lost my dad, age 14, which is 20 years ago this year. It does not feel like that long ago. And that was not something that was expected. He was not unwell. He essentially had a stroke. But he was very fit and healthy.

Went to the gym all the time. Was always talking about, you know, how to keep ourselves healthy. But, you know, I think he was a businessman and I don't know how healthy his lifestyle was for the most part of his life. and because a stroke is a cardiovascular disease, it's largely related to our lifestyle, things like blood pressure, diabetes, nutrition lifestyle. When he passed away from that, and I realized, I learned during that time

that he had stenosis of his carotid arteries, so the arteries said, what's that? It's basically like a narrowing because there's plaque within the artery. And that would be, hugely related to our lifestyle. So that was essentially what killed him and it was too late by the time we knew why to do anything. And even at age 14 I think something that's so to seed in my brain that like what could I what could we have done to prevent this?

What I mean 14 is such a sensitive age and a very difficult time to lose a parent Yeah. So I think like witnessing, losing dad, being in the hospital over that week, I thought, you know, I would love to go into healthcare. So I applied for medical school in Ireland and I actually didn't get in because I also went through a really hard depressive episode in my like around age 17. I grieved quite late. Oh, really? 17. So how did that manifest itself? It basically me becoming really unsociable, pulling away from friends, not really caring for myself in terms of like showering, eating, like essentially neglecting myself. And it took a conversation with a very understanding GP who sat me down with my mum and said, look, at this point we're going to have to bring you into hospital if we don't sort things out. And it was after that that, and I think seeing how I was hurting my mum, I decided something clicked. And I went back to school, sat my exam.

And I went into med school with a really big ambition. And we learned nothing about nutrition. So when you say you went into med school with a big ambition, could you just tell me what was your ambition then? Well, I guess I didn't just want to learn about saving people's lives. I wanted to learn about preventing people from getting sick in the first place. So that's what happened with the dad comes into place. And, you know, when you first start working as a junior doctor,

you rotate through various specialties. And I just so happened to be, I was working in a central London hospital. And the rotations that I was given were quite acute medical. So people who were very much very unwell. so a lot of people would die. And I remember just being completely shell-shocked by witnessing all of this because maybe a little bit naively, it wasn't something I had experienced in med school. You know, you go on, you do kind of work experience, but you don't experience the sheer trauma. And so when I was in med school and I was realizing, well, I know how to treat people with pills and surgery,

but what happens if someone like dad walks into my office? Like what do I do there? And so I set up this blog called the Food Medic 13 years ago now. A little WordPress blog where I would write about how nutrition and medicine are involved, how we can prevent things like high cholesterol, high blood pressure, how they're linked to our kind of long-term health. And it really just took off because at the time, this would have been like 2012, 2013, wellness.

on Instagram was getting really big. You know, lots of bloggers coming out, but not many of them were really qualified to be giving advice. And there was a lot of backlash going on. So I think the fact that I just newly qualified as a doctor and things like that, people were like, I think I can trust her. And I had someone come knocking for a book deal

when I was doing my medical school exams, finals. And it was Christmas time when I was home in Ireland. and I remember getting an email to say, we'd love you to write a book. And that was my first book, The Food Medic, and it just really took off. Got it here, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I remember all of this. Yeah. I've watched your career from the get-go. Yeah. And I think you're right. I think the fact that it was called the Food Medic. Yeah. And that you had a credential to your name

when nobody really else did that was in that field. Yeah. I mean, I would like to touch on how hard it is to trust information online. What's your opinion of that? I think it's really tricky. In the beginning, I would do my best to do a lot of myth-busting and things like that. And I'm not like the, I'm not a very confrontational person. So I don't like, and I don't agree with calling people out in line.

I don't either. I just, I think, I know that some people, that's the way they approach things. But I, it's negative, isn't it? It's so negative. And also, maybe they actually don't know the truth here. You know, maybe they're being misled or this is their truth. So I would always opt for like a private message over calling someone out. Have you done that?

Yeah. I have plenty of times. And I've had people completely ignore me. And I've had people say, thank you so much for messaging. I didn't know that. Or some people say, well, that's your opinion. This is mine. So interestingly, when I do it, I don't do it as an.

expert because I don't know. I don't know. But I might say, like, why don't you contact somebody that, you know, rather than putting that person down, why don't you sort of say, I've got a different opinion. But like it's social media shouldn't be a battleground or somewhere where you choose to try and take each other down because actually at the end of the day, we're all trying to do something positive. That's it. And I think, like, when we think about the state of health care and access to health information and trying to see your GP. A lot of people struggle to even get into a doctor's chair. And so they turned to social media.

And when I was writing my last book, Not Just a Period, we did a big survey through my social media and we had like 7,000 people, 7,000 women respond. Wow. Yeah. And at the end, I think we had almost 5,000 complete responses that we analysed. But from that survey, we found. that most people turn to social media for health advice above their doctors. But it's not their preferred source.

They're only going there because they don't feel like anyone's going to listen to them. So I think I believe social media can be really powerful for sharing information. And I think you don't have to be an expert to do that because people's lived experiences are really valuable. You know, like I have a friend who has endometriosis and she set up a foundation, endometriosis foundation. And she's had such a terrible experience. She's, you know, had multiple bowel surgeries because of it. And like her voice is so valuable.

But she's not a doctor. But she has medical experts come in and do kind of live Instagram posts and things like that. And like how you have integrated even your surgeon recently. I think that's really powerful but we have to be really careful if we're pretending to be something that we're not Yes

you know and I think that's where the line can be a little bit blurry I'd like to go back a little bit and talk about the connection that how strongly you feel about food and how that can help people because you know obviously we're called begin again

and you're quite interesting because you're helping women kind of look at their periods and start a new relationship with their bodies and how they can help themselves and be more in control of their bodies. But at the same time, you sort of began again. You were studying medicine and went on afterwards to do nutrition. So I was 28 when I went to do my master's.

And that's a lot. That was it. And that was my third degree. Not that I'm counting or anything, but that's quite impressive. But to highlight how much I really wanted it, because no one really wants to go back to university once you've actually gotten a job in someone's paying you to do what you're expert in. And I was still working in the NHS at the time,

so I had to do it kind of alongside that. So you had a job in the NHS as a doctor and then went back to do a master's while you were still working in the NHS. Yeah. What was that like for you? It was really difficult. I mean, at the time, I was doing locum work so I could choose my shifts,

but that's what funded my masters. But once I started it, like day one, I was like, I'm meant to be here. Like, I'm meant to do this. Before, because there's so many things I want to, and I definitely want to talk about periods, but before we get there, I quickly wanted to ask you because so many friends of mine are talking about it and doing it

and considering it, egg freezing. Yeah. What is your take on that? Because I know you've experienced it. You've gone through it yourself. How can people, when should people think about it? What does it feel like? What can they expect?

And why is it a good idea? So I think, obviously, to freeze your eggs, You need to be in a financial position to do it, unless you have a medical reason why your fertility might be impacted. I have a diagnosis of PCOS, which doesn't mean I'm infertile in any shape or form. Could you explain to people what PCR? Yeah, so it's called polycystic ovary syndrome. And you essentially have cysts on your ovaries, but it means that your cycle length is a bit longer. And you don't ovulate every month.

and there are some other symptoms impacted. So the reason that you don't know when you're ovulating and sometimes your cycles are a bit more irregular, it makes getting pregnant a bit more difficult. So when I was diagnosed at this, I thought, well, I'll see how many eggs I've got left. I'll check all of this. I was single at the time.

So I was thinking, you know, I'm 30 now. I don't know what's going to happen in the next five years, but I would like to have children with someone or without. And they said you have very low ovarian reserve. so you don't have many eggs for your age. It doesn't tell you anything about the quality of your eggs. Was that a shock? Yeah.

Because I thought, I'm so fit and healthy. I'm in my 30s. Surely I've got a ton of eggs. And so I spoke to a fertility doctor and he basically said, if you're thinking about freezing your eggs, it's do it now. So after the age of 35, your egg quality declines. so it doesn't really matter how many eggs you have but the quality of them declined

so it can impact getting pregnant so I froze my eggs age 32 I think it was and actually I'd met someone then who's getting married to this year congratulations thank you oh that's great news yes so I met him

while I was kind of exploring this and I told him what I was going to do because also even if we worked out I wanted to make sure that I was looking after me and kind of what I wanted. And he was very supportive throughout the process. So I think I was very naive going into it, even as someone who's medically trained,

because I knew the ins and outs of the different hormones I'll be taking, kind of what the regime would look like, but I wasn't really clued up on how that would physically make me feel. And I would say, they said, oh, you might get some, you'll get some bloating and things like that. I couldn't fit into any of my pants by the end of it. I was so bloated from all the hormones. And when they scanned me the day before they took out the eggs,

my ovaries were just full of, all these follicles, like so many. Like I think 30 on one side and 25 on the other. So like the amount of swelling was to be expected. But what I wasn't warned about was afterwards, once they retrieve the eggs, you stop all your hormones. you basically are in what my fertility doctor explained to be like a mini menopause but they don't warn you about it so I was so low tearful like I went back to work straight away because they said oh you only need a day off work I couldn't do my work I was so so low my body was so painful it was painful to sit on the chair

and I just was like I felt like I I shouldn't feel that way. Why didn't they tell you if that is a common? I think, well, they said there'd be some discomfort, but there's just no warning about the mental impact. And I had friends who had done it, and some of them didn't have such a bad experience. Some of them had a worse experience. And I just think, like, of course you're going to feel

the impact of pumping yourself full of hormones for, like, a few weeks, then having a procedure, which isn't just a small procedure. And then if someone removes all those hormones, you're going to feel really low. And I think also the emotional impact of just, wow, like those eggs are now in a freezer. Yeah. I think what's interesting, sometimes in the menopausephir, I use the term like medical gaslighting where they don't tell you something that would really, really help. Yes.

And then kind of go, you're overreacting. Yeah, it's like, well, if somebody told me this. this might happen, then I wouldn't be feeling like this. And I think, interestingly, the same with periods as it is with menopause. All the way along on our journey, we get kind of told to stop overreacting. Yeah. It's just a period. That's it.

Which is your book, obviously. So just to finish off with your air freezing. Freezing, like, was it successful? It was successful. I think the comparison like trap is just not one to get into and I think I did share my journey online but I didn't want to share about how many eggs I'd retrieved

and things because I feel like people start comparing and say well I got more or whatever and I was like what it is what it is good so I just kind of kept that part private but I wanted to share my experience of like going through the process because I wish I had that and I want I don't regret doing it, I think was the best decision. And I may never use them, but I may have to use them

because I've not got to that point yet. And I would say if anyone's considering doing it, it's better to do it sooner rather than later because your egg quality only declines over time. But the paradoxes, women are usually only at a point where they can, A, have the time, A, have a partner, if they want to have a partner to do it, and also are financially able to do it when they're later in life. Yeah. So no one's thinking about it in their 20s. But that's probably the best time to do it. Yes. So I think, you know, you'll find with clinics, some of them don't have, you know, really tight age cut off.

So it's worth having a little chat with someone if you're thinking about it and go around the clinics. There's so many fantastic ones in London, but also around the UK. And it is becoming more affordable compared to how it used to be. So, yeah. But then I, you know, every month I pay my little membership to keep my eggs on ice. I say that's my egg gym membership. Yeah, 18 euros a month to keep them there. So, yeah, we'll see.

But I do think if you are not ready to have kids before the age of 35 and you have the means to, it is something worth exploring. But as a first step, I would just go get your fertility tested if you're serious about having kids. Does that cost money? It does. But that's a lot more affordable. Like you can get simple. blood tests, even the ones that are the finger prick testing and things like with

fertility and they'll do it in the post and they'll just give you a brief snapshot. It doesn't tell you everything. But for me, it prompted me to freeze my eggs. So I think it's, what I think all of this is really important is that we are more informed about our bodies and our choices. I mean, this is what we haven't had. No. and this is what is so good

about talking. And what I like about you, Hazel, is that you are very inclusive. It's not just about women talking to each other or it's about involving men, everybody get on board, you know, dads of daughters who are in their 20s or 30s.

It's about husbands or boyfriends or fiancés of women. It's about how. having a grown-up conversation. I love the fact that you'd just met a guy. Yeah. And you told him you were freezing your eggs and that he didn't run. Yeah.

That he's that guy who's like, I totally understand why you're doing it. That I might not be involved. Like, let's just see how we go and you carry on. These are modern conversations. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, when I was having the procedure and you're not under general anaesthetic, it's like heavy sedation.

Him and my mum were in the McDonald's. next door having a little coffee waiting and that's where he asked my mum if he could marry me. While you were having your... I know. I know. He didn't tell me that until later. I was like in McDonald's in Dublin. Is that so romantic? I know. But actually... It actually is. Yeah. Yeah. Need a vehicle that isn't afraid to make a splash? That's the Volkswagen Touse.

Capable and confident. The Volkswagen Touse is. fit for everyday light, nimble in traffic, agile and tight spots, and still spacious enough for weekend getaways. While available 4-motion all-wheel drive gives confidence in rain and snow. The capable taos, you deserve more confidence. Visit vw.ca to learn more. SUV-W, German engineered for all. So you're writing the female factor, which is sort of part recipes.

Yeah. So the female factor was like a big. bigger look on the how we understudy, underdiagnose and essentially neglect women when it comes to health and healthcare. And I was witnessing this within the hospital. And I, and I would like to caveat this, but I don't think any doctors are intentionally gas sliding or neglecting women. I think it's a reflection of the lack of research we have. And then because we don't have the research, majority of historically, majority of the research we've done is on male bodies, male mice, male cells.

And we just assume that women are small men, so it'll work the same. But we're not. And so what was really interesting to me is I remember one situation in particular where I was working in the acute medical unit. And in this unit, GPs would refer patients in who they think are unwell, but not super unwell that they need to be in A&E. It's like they need some extra tests. So this woman in her 50s had chest pain

And it was queerie reflux But also a heart attack And I went to see her And she was I remember her being very rushed Because she had to pick up her grandkids So she was telling me to hurry up And I was like

Well everything looks fine Your obs look fine But I need to do an ECG And I need to run these blood tests I'm ticking the boxes To make sure you're not having a heart attack And she was like I always get reflux when I'm stressed

so she'd me convinced I let cardiology know just in case they were also like it's probably nothing came back she was having a heart attack and I think it was so interesting because I was like my bias was that she was just a stressed woman

and also women don't have heart attacks men have heart attacks like we hold these biases about men and women when and then when I was writing the female factor I learned that doctors have these biases about men and women but also women can present with heart attacks differently.

Like yes, if you have central crushing chest pain, do you go to hospital, but sometimes women will feel a bit nauseous or they'll get more reflux type symptoms. And if you're presenting with that, you may slip through the net. So it's really important that we listen to women who are experiencing those symptoms and don't dismiss it as you're just a bit anxious. Do you think that that is the same? the problem really is an overall minimisation of, or do women do it also to themselves? So I am guilty of going, no, no, no, don't worry, I'm fine, I can do this.

Because I've spent my whole life as you have. Minimising. Minimising what we're going through. Whereas, and I'm, I have so many male allies. my partner is the most amazing male ally like he wants to look after me he listens to me so I don't need to do that around him I can be honest

but it's like it's in my DNA or something as a woman to cope with everything and I think partially that must be society that we've evolved into these creatures that just need to be okay you're completely right and there's a lot of research coming out and you might have come across this as well because the British Heart Foundation have been publishing a lot on it how women are more likely to die from a heart attack in the UK and we've been trying to understand why but there's so many different reasons to why that might be and it's really like one of one of the big parts of it is that when we have symptoms we're more likely to put it off going to seek help it'll be fine I'm too big

busy, I'll just take a painkiller. Look at this woman. She was trying to go and pick up her kids. Whereas if men are in pain, they will take it seriously. And if we see a man coming to the hospital, we think he must be serious. Whereas women, again, not to say that we're gas-liding women in general, but women are often seen as being a bit hysterical. Where did the word hysteria come from? Where did it come from? Basically, it was a made-up condition saying that women are.

women had this hysterical illness and it manifested from the womb. We were sick by our womb. It's not a real thing. So for years, women were diagnosed with this made-up condition. So when we say that we're hysterical, that's where it's coming from. I know. I know. But I thought it was because I was really funny.

You are hysterical in a funny way. That is unbelievable, right? And just to follow up on that, when it comes to pain, women's pain, we're taking less seriously. We're more likely to have our pain diagnosed as psychogenic, which means it's not real. And when women ask for painkillers, this is backed by research, we have to wait longer to get them. So it's something to do with not being believed as a woman. and there's no biological reason why we would make that up. So I think my assumption is it's all just wrapped up in gender biases, that women are emotional.

But it's entrenched. It's entrenched. In society. And healthcare. How do we stop it? With more research, more awareness. I mean, research. Can we just get angry about that for a minute? I know, I know.

How long are we going to have to bang it? on about that? We have to keep banging on about it because only 2.5% of publicly funded research goes towards women's reproductive and gynecological health. And I think when I was writing this book

one of the stats that really jumped out at me is that, you know, 90% of women who have a period experience pre-menstrual symptoms. But there's hardly any research done on that. There's five times more research done on erectile dysfunction

when that only impacts like 20% of them or even less. It's really interesting. I mean, this is dark. Yeah. So we need, first of all, we need more people to care about it

so that we get investment into it. But what I don't understand is about people caring about it. We are 51, maybe even 52% of the world. Yeah. Women. So how come more, like we are half, have that, why don't half the people care about it?

What's up with that? I think because we've also been brainwashed into minimizing it as, it's just a period, or it's just the menopause, or it's just pregnancy. All women go through these things. It's just part and parcel of being a woman. You know, so suck it up. So suck it up. Yes, I mean, I think I, I mean, I'm very lucky. Everything in gynecologically for me has been relatively straightforward.

But I was saying my daughter has adenomyosis. And it is only, it is thanks to a doctor on Instagram that we looked into that and sort of started questioning a little bit more around her symptoms and things. So she got an early diagnosis, but women are waiting years and years. Yeah. For diagnosis. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better. So not just a period.

You were talking about PCOS. Yeah. Was that part of the drive to get out there and start talking about it? Yes. Yes. So I was diagnosed with PCOS in 2018. And I knew something was wrong because my cycles were becoming more regular. and I was experiencing acne that I haven't had in years

and multiple of their symptoms and even though I was a working doctor at the time in the NHS I had to really fight, really, really fight for two years to get my diagnosis and I finally got my ultrasound and blood tests which confirmed that I did have PCS and it was so validating but also I was like what do I do now? And the consultant turned around and he said, that, well, you're not overweight.

So just cut the carbs and come back when you want to get pregnant. And I was like, this is the most useless piece of information. And now I work in a clinic. I have my own clinic and I work specifically with women. Most of them have PCS. And I consult them on nutrition. And we're able to transform their cycles, get their cycle length down, help them ovulate, help them get pregnant.

And this is just with food. Yeah. I mean, that's incredible, right? Yeah. And side note, I don't tell them to come off medication. Some of them don't need medication. I don't need medication, luckily. So I'm very much not this or that. I'm very much this and that. But how, like, if I had that information, you know, years ago, I would have got to a place much quicker. And I just think, again, like, the way it was so minimised and the way I had to fight for it. So that really did inspire my book. But off the back of writing the female factor, I just, My DMs were just full of women having really bad periods and just being told it's normal. Heavy periods, painful periods. Painful periods were taking annual leave, using unpaid leave to take days off. And then, you know, women who are unable to get pregnant,

women who have really long cycles, lost their cycles because of stress. And I think the common narrative was just come back when you want to get pregnant. it's normal, it's just a period, try the pill, but not looking into what was actually going on. And so I wanted to write a manual that was essentially like, what's normal, what's not, what do I do when this goes wrong? And also, how can I live across my menstrual cycle? What food should I eat? How does that impact exercise or sleep or my breast health or my libido or my mental health? And I think like when I was writing the book and doing the research, I was like, feel so empowered.

Were you learning things yourself that you hadn't known before? Absolutely. And it just felt like, oh, I wasn't going crazy. It wasn't just in my head. And now I'm really in tune with what I need at certain points of my cycle. Even my partner, he knows what I need at certain points of my cycle. We talk it openly about it. And I love with menstrual cycle tracking apps,

you can even share it with your partner. So they know, you know, if you're ovulating, if you're, you know, in that PMS phase, if you're due your period. And I think having that awareness is amazing. Wait. That's so good. Sorry, I feel quite old right now. But so, because obviously I've not been tracking periods for a very long time.

Yes. And haven't been married for a very long time either. But so, and my husband always definitely knew when I had PMS. But so he, he, he, he, he, he, Your partner, not he, like man or woman, but your partner would know when to brace themselves for the PMS phase. Yeah. That's so nice. So good.

Because they'd be able to offer you more understanding when you're struggling. That's a brilliant idea, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's like it's having that awareness. And one thing that does drive me a little bit mad is. how we always assume it's women's hormones if they're upset. So I think...

Yeah, that's true. I used to hate that as well, yeah. Don't just assume that she's due her period or... You're not, you're just really annoying me. That's it. Yeah. Sometimes you're just really annoying. Yeah.

And that's a conversation I've had to have with my partner. But some really interesting research I came across when writing the book was around PMS. And they took a group. of women who experienced PMS and they put them in two groups, one who had therapy and one who had couple's therapy. And they found that couples therapy was more effective at reducing symptoms of PMS because the women felt really supported. Yes. And so what that really shouts to me is that it's not just hormones, it's, you know, maybe decide that you're going to cook dinner this week or maybe just take the bins out and don't complain and just be a little bit more helpful during that time

because it will make her experience of PMS so much more bearable. I mean, as a woman, I think having been your feelings, your experiences with your body being minimized all the time, when you find a partner who hears you, sees you, understands, maybe just holds, space for you to have a meltdown or gives you some space if you just need to call down about something and you know that they're doing that they don't go oh i'm going to give you some space because you're clearly you know what i mean when you find somebody who gets you in that way yeah

you'd do anything for that person i mean it's incredible isn't it yeah and i would say like in all honesty that with my current partner, it didn't start like that when it came to talking about the menstrual cycle. He grew up not really ever having that conversation. And so when we started dating and he realized that all I do is talk about periods for work and, you know, I'm really passionate about it. He was a bit like, whoa, just give me the need to know information. And I was like, I'm sorry, this is my work. You're going to have to get used to it. You're going to not, You can't be squeamish about it. And now he knows so much about the menstrual cycle.

It's so normalised in our household. He's a health coach and I hear him speaking to his female clients. You know, maybe you're craving this because you're in your luteal face. And I'm like, go David. But I'm team David, by the way. I just want to let you know. I'm so happy. No, because my partner did that with the menopause.

Yeah. But it, you, he's a hairstylist. I hear him all the time talking to women about menopausal hair. Yeah. And he's learned that because he understands how important it is to you, David, learned that. That's it. But the reason I wanted to highlight that is because sometimes women say,

I couldn't have that with my partner. And I think it's worth having the conversation. You never know. And give them time. Because they also will have those entrenched beliefs that it's something that we don't talk about. You know, when I got my period, I remember my mum shooed me into a room, took one of my sisters in, told her to tell me what to do. And my dad didn't have a conversation with him, but every month he would bring me a hot water bottle. But he'd never mention anything.

He'd just give me the hot water bottle in silence. I know. I know. Very sweet. What a man. What a man. Oh, sorry. How lovely is that?

Yeah. I'm not going to say anything. But here's just a thing to let you know that I'm. I know. Yeah. And I think that just goes a long way. And I'm, you know, I'm not a dad. I don't know how they feel.

David might be one day. He might be one day. And I think maybe some young girls will feel uncomfortable if their dad wants to have a really deep, letting conversation about it. But if they do the little things, like make sure they have whatever products they need, add it to the weekly shop,

give them a hot water bottle, make a nice dinner, get some Ben and Jerry. in the fridge. Like those little things just go a long way so then girls don't think like I need to suffer in silence because if they know dad doesn't mind

if I tell him that actually I'm being sick because I'm so unwell with my periods like I can't go to school I'm missing PE they won't feel like they have to suffer in silence. Yes. So whilst you were writing not just a period what were the big learnings

you know could you give me three wow moments where you're like okay this is big? Yeah. I would say like big top line, wow, which is what I want every woman to come away with, is the hormones that orchestrate are reproductions or our menstrual cycle or menopause like estrogen and progesterone. They are not just influencing when we have our periods. They influence everything from our brain health, our gut health, our mood, our sleep, what we crave, how strong we feel, how energetic we feel, how motivated we feel. so understanding that will give you so much insight into what your body needs and that's regardless of where you're at in your reproductive life so I think that's the really most important thing

I think the second thing and we touched on that as well is it's not just hormones you know there's so many other things that influence how we feel and you know around just before the next period most women experience PMS so emotional and psychological um but also physical symptoms. So that could be anything from like breast tenderness, cramping, bloating, but also feeling a bit more tearful, feeling a bit angry. And I think oftentimes we just pass it off as, you know, it's just PMS. But for a very small percentage of women, five to eight percent of women, there's something called PMDD where it's really severe premenstrual disorder and they get really depressed, sometimes have suicidal thoughts. And that's really poorly unrecognized.

And I know a lot of women experience it and are really struggling. And I think if we can raise more awareness about that to listen to women, if they are feeling really low, especially if it's cyclical. So if it's happening in those two weeks before your next period and it's happening every cycle, that's something to look at for. So it's different from depression where it would be there all the time. It's happening in that two week period. I had a client who was experiencing this and she was.

would say I only get one good week a month. And oftentimes we do our calls and she should be in bed because she was just feeling so low. And a lot of the work that we did was just making sure that she had healthy meals in the freezer for those really difficult weeks. You know, it was just getting her nourished and making sure she was doing well. So I think we cannot underestimate the impact of our cycle. And I guess third, I would say there's a huge product. productivity loss because of the menstrual cycle.

But if I flip that on its head, what about if we harness our hormones, we understand what we need, how much productivity could we gain? Like how much are we holding ourselves back in our career or being held back in our career? Because we're not fully in tune with our cycles. And I know it shouldn't be our responsibility

to learn these things, but unfortunately we're kind of at that stage until the rest of the world catches up. So let's learn about how we can, and optimize our sleep around our cycle, our nutrition, our exercise, our workouts, so that we can show up better in the workplace, so that we can, you know, achieve our goals, have better relationships, be open in our relationships. And I think I love that empowering message because I want women to learn about their cycles,

not just when something goes wrong, but so they can have a better experience of their cycle. And so they can have a better life. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's empowering a woman to have, to lead a happier, more fulfilling, better life. Yeah. I can't think of a better thing to help women with than that. Yeah. Hazel, I just want to say, Dr. Hazel, thank you so much for talking to me today.

Good luck with your wedding. Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you. But thank you most of all for supporting so many of us. I've loved following you. You know I'm a long-time adopter, but particularly not just a period. Amazing for my girls, amazing for mums all over the place and young women.

So thank you. Thank you. So, so much. I really enjoyed talking to Hazel. I think basically what was brilliant about it was that I had two different hats on. I had the hat on of being a mother. and a parent, but also of being a woman and having gone through this journey and once again understanding how important allies are. We need everyone on board. I loved hearing about Hazel's

husband. That's big up, David. Yeah, it was a really informative and interesting and brilliant chat. Yeah, I loved it.