Behind the Bastards - It Could Happen Here Weekly 180

Starting point is 00:00:00 You Feeling This Too is a horror anthology podcast. It brings different creators to tell 10 vile, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, too. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I collect my roommates' toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko.

Starting point is 00:00:41 It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 00:01:02 And the dream season is now complete. The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player when you're here, that you're being benched. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen

Starting point is 00:01:27 to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI fueled nightmare. Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked. Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts. This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart podcasts, Bloomberg and Kaleidoscope about the rise of deep fake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levittown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode.

Starting point is 00:02:14 Every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome to Icadafahere, a podcast where the ancients left this adage there is power in logistics has finally been realized by one Donald Trump. I am your host, Mia Wong, and with me is Gare. How are you doing, Gare?

Starting point is 00:02:45 Just another great day in America. It's great, it's great. They're arresting judges. It's a good time. It's great. Something that Mia has probably called for before, but under different circumstances. Hey, look, have I ever publicly called

Starting point is 00:03:00 for the arrest of a judge? I'm not sure I have. Maybe probably not, because like arresting power itself is a little bit problem. Hashtag problematic. Yeah, I mean this is a carceral solution to this garrison. Like we cannot be using carceralism to solve the problems of the carceral system. Sure. Speaking of carceral systems, there is the economy that we're all living under,

Starting point is 00:03:22 which is also quite literally a carceral system because so much of it is based on prison and slave labor and various kinds across the world Now I have good news and I have bad news about this I don't remember what the good news was so we're only getting the bad news Which is that well the good news and the bad news is that this the system that we all grew up on that the economic system that has you know Supported us our entire lives or not supported us for our entire lives. The thing, you know, the system that encompasses everything we have ever known is fucking dead.

Starting point is 00:03:51 It is dead as shit. The economic system that existed literally at the end of last year does not exist anymore. It is right now in the process of dying. And the thing that is emerging has not emerged yet, which means we get to go to the gromsey quote where he says this is the time of monsters the Chinese century my favorite gromsey See whatever gromsey. How do we say this guy's name gromsey gromsey gromsey gromsey see you fucked up, too Yeah, my favorite gromsey quote. We're entering the Chinese century

Starting point is 00:04:25 My favorite Gramsci quote, we're entering the Chinese century. Look, I, okay, so like here's the thing. I, I on a fundamental level think that Gramsci is like the harbinger of the entire retreat of the 20th century left. So I hate him and therefore I refuse to say his name properly. Also, we're going to get into a little bit about why the Chinese century is going to also be a complete shit show for them too, but you know. The Canadian century. I don't know. Finally, the Yugoslavian century. With God Emperor Mark Carney in charge, he will usher in a new era of Canadian progress and global supremacy. As climate change worsens, the Canadian economy will suck up all of

Starting point is 00:05:06 As climate change worsens, the Canadian economy will suck up all of the dependency and resources from the US in the late 20th century. And finally, we will have a Tim Hortons in every country in the planet. I'm so excited for us to finally get our first war between two countries with Tim Hortons in it. That will be exciting. So there is a story that we have told on this show many, many, many, many, many, many, many times. And it is the story of the structure of the modern world economy, the birth of neoliberalism, the ascendancy of free trade, the decline of the US as the world's great manufacturing power, the collapse of the power of the global working class, and the generalized ascension of capitalism and this specific form of capitalism as a structuring force of the world system.

Starting point is 00:05:52 It is a story of how structural forces and contingent choices, technological changes in class wars, domestic politics and grand international maneuvers and international relations built a political and economic structure that ruled the world for half a century of American hegemony and We are going to tell a very very abbreviated version of that story for one final time Because that world well don't say final because you'll probably do this again in two years But okay the world that we were all born into

Starting point is 00:06:20 That world is fucking dead and Donald Trump has killed it This is how it died Garrison yes in the beginning There was war Sure in the ashes of a continent ripped by the flames of fascism two armies stood triumphant over a new world One of them unfortunately was the United States, and the second one, unfortunately, was the USSR. Now, it's also worth mentioning that very briefly,

Starting point is 00:06:52 both the French and the British assumed they would also be like superpowers, and, no, jokes. Washed. Failed. Failed powers. Zero out of ten. Absolute dipshits. Destroyed.ed now oddly enough Japan walked away with more power than either of those countries Yeah, yeah a little bit a little bit odd considering the conditions that led to this happening Well, you know, I mean but the actual shift here

Starting point is 00:07:17 so and this is and this is you know, like this actually is a lot of what this episode is about is that the thing that World War one or World War Two did was, and World War One also did this, but was fundamentally break the power of the Old World Empires, right? Because the world had been ruled for several hundred years by various combinations of the French, the British, and the Germans, and you know, to some extent like Spain, but Spain was sort of gone, right? But like those old world empires had been what had structured everything in the world. And at the end of World War II, that suddenly wasn't the case anymore.

Starting point is 00:07:53 And the product of this was that if you look at the places in the world that had the largest remaining industrial reserves, right? You know, I mean, there was obviously some industrial production in Latin America, particularly Argentina. There was some like Chinese manufacturing belts that were run by Japan in China that weren't destroyed. And then there was the entire manufacturing power of the United States. And this meant that alone among countries, right, the US was in the most dominant position, like one of the most dominant positions of great

Starting point is 00:08:22 powers ever been in even though there technically was a second great power, right? They had an unbelievable percentage of the world's total manufacturing power. We had an unhinged percentage of the world's total gold reserves. We had, I guess, like the second largest army in the world. But, you know, we like we were significantly more technologically advanced than the USSR. And this had a bunch of extremely weird consequences because there was really no way for the amount of like concentrated industrial power the US had to go but down because we controlled so much of the world's wealth and so much of the world's manufacturing capacity that the only thing that could ever possibly happen was that the rest of the world would

Starting point is 00:09:03 catch up and this was the thing that was actually necessary happen was that the rest of the world would catch up. And this was a thing that was actually necessary. And this is something that was spurred on by the American industrial class, right? Because they suddenly had all of these like Jeep factories you're trying to make cars out of and they needed people to buy the cars. And the only way to do that was to rebuild Europe and to rebuild Japan in order to sort of rebuild these places as markets. And so for like a very brief time, and this is the sort of like golden

Starting point is 00:09:25 age that all of these Trump people and all these like weird dipshits like harken back to was this like hard time of like unmatched American power. But also it was it was a time in the world economy where you could have multiple powers industrializing at the same time without it being zero sum. And that just was not going to last because at a certain point and this is accelerated by things we've talked about in other episodes like this attempt by a bunch of what we're called the non-aligned movement or sort of the G77 you know also like the third world movement a bunch of these countries that were non-aligned like Yugoslavia, India,

Starting point is 00:10:03 Pakistan which you can immediately tell how this alliance is going to shit because these two countries are in the same alliance, right? Like, you know, Tito's Yugoslavia is in this with Saudi Arabia. These countries' economic strategy was to create something that actually is, in a lot of ways, kind of like what Trump is trying to do, which is using their control of resources, although again, the resources the US has now is like money, because we took all of the fucking world's resources, right, but using that to develop your own

Starting point is 00:10:32 local industrial basis, so you can you can have your own local manufacturing economy. And this is something that like a lot of countries pursued this, like Venezuela pursues this, like Bolivia pursues this, this is something that like everyone like kind of across the political spectrum is trying to do in like the 60s and 70s and through the 80s. But the thing is, it's destroyed by the second thing that's sort of a model for what these people are trying to do, which is what Reagan was able to do to the American economy in the sort of 1980s. And what Reagan is able to do is Reagan actually does something that sounds really bizarre now. But he was actually successfully able to temporarily for about

Starting point is 00:11:11 maybe like six years, six or seven years, was able to actually like dramatically ramp up American like like industrial production and like was able to do the whole sort of like we're bringing the jobs back to the US. And like was able to do the whole sort of like we're bringing the jobs back to the US But the thing is the way he did this was not the way the Trump administration is doing it, right? What he did was on the one hand he blew a smoking crater in the entire world economy and that Garrison will sound familiar to you because these people are trying to blow a hole in the American economy, right? Like you have seen this. Yes. I have seen the stonks in the trade and the shipments. Yes, I am.

Starting point is 00:11:49 Yeah, but even like Elon Musk would like post about this, right? Like very deliberately about how he wants to destroy the economy so that there could be like a brief economic hardship and then a golden age, right? Necessary hardship will have to endure for a short period of time to then reach the like utopia, which is surely around the corner. Yeah, and and it's interesting because when when serious people have to defend this like Fox Okay, I see serious people I'm taking this and I'm saying Fox News because like semi serious. Look look here's a serious clown Yeah, I don't have to defend this right like okay, you know, we're not dealing with like, you know

Starting point is 00:12:23 We're not dealing with like intellectual Titans here But like when someone who is mildly more intelligent than Elon Musk has to defend this it is Reagan they point you because Reagan and Carter was also ahead of hand in this but Reagan does this thing called the Volcker shock right like working working hand-in-hand with Paul Volcker's the head of the Federal Reserve Which notably Trump just spent a bunch of time threatening to fire the head of the Federal Reserve and then had to back off on that because all of the markets were like, this is our fucking Rubicon, like we don't give a fuck about any of the other things, well, we kind of give a fuck about the other things you'd be doing,

Starting point is 00:12:52 but like, if you fire the head of the Federal Reserve, like, we're going ape shit. But like, you know, the Fed and Reagan worked together in order to do this thing, which is the jack interest rates to just like unhinged levels, causing everyone else's debt in the world to become like unbelievably unsustainable to repay. This like annihilates most of the world's economies. This also creates like a double dip recession where the U.S. has like almost 20% unemployment. But he's able to write this out specifically because like this thing actually benefits a bunch of sections of the American capitalist class.

Starting point is 00:13:28 Like, if you are someone who holds debt, right, this is fucking great for you. And this is something very different from what's happening right now because nobody is winning the trade war. Like everyone is just having the very worst time they've ever had. It does seem like a globe of losers. Yeah, but the thing that Reagan does that actually allowed him to temporarily restore the profitability of a lot of American manufacturing, and there is still a lot of American manufacturing, we'll get to that in a bit.

Starting point is 00:13:58 But the thing he was able to do was the thing that Garrison, I was threatening at the beginning of the show, by the time I am done doing this podcast, like maybe not this podcast, but by the time I finish doing it could happen here when I like die on the battlefield in 15 years Everyone will be able to fucking explain the Plaza Accords and the reverse Plaza Accords because they are they are the central thing that got Us to this all to this fucking place Which that Ronald Reagan goes to Japan and goes to like West Germany and the subtext of what he's saying is like You are American military protectorates and because you're American build a Japan by the way It's like the great industrial power of the 1980s right into the 90s like they are like

Starting point is 00:14:35 The defining like they are the thing that everyone thinks about China today like if you want to find every argument people make about China from the entire political spectrum, like all the way from like People on the one hand going like this is they're going to destroy american hegemony to people on the other hand being like this Is what socialism is you can find all of those same arguments people made about japan in like the 80s But you know what reagan forces these countries to do is to increase the value of their currency relative to the dollar Right, so the dollar is suddenly worth less and because the dollar is like worth less relative to other international currencies It makes us manufacturing more competitive and this like temporarily Restores American technological production, but then they have to reverse them because that nukes the entire Japanese economy and the Japanese economy becomes an entire

Starting point is 00:15:17 thing of real estate speculation Which you know I guess I know you may be too young to remember what happened the last time that we based the entire economy on real estate speculation, but it didn't go great. That's not true. Also, you're like a few days older than me. Come on. That's unbelievably not true. I am over half a decade older than you. Is that real? No, that can't be real. Yeah. We'll talk about this afterwards. I don't think that's true. Let me pull up my Mia Wong Docs file to check once All right, well while garrison checks to be a Wong Docs file

Starting point is 00:15:52 The economy that is built up from all of this though, right is an economy based on a few different things one it's based on an entire network of global supply chains with you know, like Very very minimal tariff barriers between them, right? It is based on the sort of doctrine of free trade, which is, you know, not really free, but obviously, like the ways that these were written structurally benefited the US, right? Like the US is allowed to do all of this shit for like its corn production that no other country is allowed to do. Like all of the market tampering that all these people scream about is just what the US does with corn. But you know, the entire economic system was based on being able to cheaply produce different components of goods in different countries, assemble them and then move them across the world cheaply in order to sort of avoid the localized

Starting point is 00:16:37 power of workers movements. It is based on the US running a series of bubble economies, so the tech bubble, the housing bubble, et cetera, et cetera, and it is based on the US dollar and the bond as like the fundamental aspects of, like as the world reserve currency, the fundamental thing that drives the system. And when we come back, we will talk about this literally all exploding and what it's gonna do for all of you,

Starting point is 00:17:03 which is not good. Yay. Okay, we are back. Now, one of the things that have, in a lot of of ways locked the system in place was that because of the way that these these manufacturing networks are set up, right, because they're all so interlinked, because they're all dependent on like exploiting differences between production capacity and like labor costs in different countries. costs in different countries. They are also interconnected that if you try to pull one thread out of it and do a major change to the system, the entire thing is at risk immediately. And this meant that there has always been an enormous structural incentive to keep things the way they were, even if everyone can also already like realize that they're kind of

Starting point is 00:17:59 fucked up. And this dates all the way back to like things that most people largely have forgotten about but like Obama for example ran on Renegotiating NAFTA and he never like intended to do that But like even if he had when we got into power, you know, like Trump renegotiates NAFTA too, right? But he renegotiates NAFTA and it's just like the same trade deal Because for a long time right if you were gonna run the capitalist economy in a functional way The only thing you could possibly do was run it the way it had already been set up, because there were so many structural factors about how the system of production works, that this is the only way you could run it and still have the economy not explode. But now we have finally produced a group of men so stupid that they are unconstrained by the structural limits of the economy.

Starting point is 00:18:42 unconstrained by the structural limits of the economy. And this is where we get into the brine of turf terrorism wrong right now. And we get into something that is very important to understand about this, which is that this shit is not about economics, right? In a sense that you or I were understand that this is none of this stuff is about like we want the economy to grow. It's this is not something that like really any of the major sectors of capital want because it is just nuking this whole thing. And this is why you've seen a split between even Elon Musk

Starting point is 00:19:16 has like openly criticized the trade policy, even if he's been sort of hedging it. What we've been seeing is this widening rift. And we talked about this in the last executive disorder where like different factions of the Trump administration were literally trying to like isolate Trump from like Navarro who's the guy who wants to do all of the all of the tariff bullshit. They've been you know literally try to get them alone in a room so that they can they can implement their trade policy. But the actual underlying urge here is completely ideological, right? It is this idea that like if you run a trade deficit with a country or if you are buying

Starting point is 00:19:52 things from a country, they are ripping you off and you always need to be selling more things than you're buying, which is just like, so okay, on one level, like this is just so fucking nonsense that like attempting to explain why his bullshit is kind of pointless. But we're gonna do it anyways, because someone fucking has to, somewhere. And this actually does also reveal something about the way that money has always worked under these systems. Okay, so before we get to, like, what this is going to do to the entire world economy, we need to talk about...

Starting point is 00:20:22 Garrison, do you know what balance of payments is? That sounds like something I would ask my accountant about. Yeah, so this is a technically an accounting thing, right? But the balance of payments of a country, it is like a leisure thing, right? But it's the measure of like their accounts, right? In terms of all of the money coming out of the country and all of the money coming into the country. That's, you know, that's like, that's like trade balance stuff, right. And the balance of payments is actually very important for a lot of countries, because specifically most countries in the world

Starting point is 00:20:53 need to buy things in a currency they can't print. And this has always been the structural limit of things like modern monetary theory, which talks about how like, your your country's ability to like, have things isn't constrained by just like the pure money supply of your country as long as you're buying things in your own currency, right? Like the purpose of money is a thing to move assets around, but inflation isn't a product. I mean, like, yeah, okay, if you just like hammer the fucking printer button, right? Like, yeah, you can cause hyperinflation, but substantively because money is something that is a production of the government because it is literally government debt, right?

Starting point is 00:21:29 It's not a commodity in a conventional sense where you have to like figure out how much of it there is and there's like a limited supply of it and you have to like manage limited supply to make sure the economy doesn't explode. You could just use the money that you have and you can use debt like deficit spending effectively to continue to circulate goods around the economy. The problem is, if you have to buy something that is not in your currency, that's where you need trade. Because you need to find a way, so you know, I'm going to take an example that we're going to come back to later, which is Bolivia. Right? If you are Bolivia, you need to get American dollars so you can buy like gas, right? So people can like fucking fuel their cars. And the problem is you can only buy oil in American dollars. So you have to find something to export to a place where you can get American dollars for it. And in this sense, balance of payments actually matters enormously. Right.

Starting point is 00:22:18 And balance payments is also just like a function of all of your trade deficits and all of your trade surplus is sort of combined. Right. But think about the US. This is a notable thing. Everyone uses the dollar to buy shit. There's like nothing that you can't buy with the dollar. So for the United States, none of this shit matters at all. None of the balance payment stuff. It is completely irrelevant, like literally completely, totally and utterly irrelevant.

Starting point is 00:22:42 Right? Now, if you are like Bolivia and you run out of dollars, then what you have is a spiraling economic crisis where like people fucking suddenly can't buy food because no one can buy oil so no one can move things around. So like the entire economy literally collapses. This is a very, very, very common mode of economic collapse. But you know, none of the things that they're right is talking about like in terms of like, oh, you have like the United States has like a trade deficit with China's like yeah great that means that we're buying things from them

Starting point is 00:23:08 Like the one good Rand Paul quote ever was like yes. I I have a trade deficit with my grocery store And that's fine Mia goes full Rand Paul on the podcast today. Yeah, I know what but thing thing is the thing is it is very very funny that Rand Paul is now Complaining about this because it's like well Yeah, I don't know if all of you motherfuckers hadn't spent all this time like fucking palling around with like Alex Jones and the clan Like we probably wouldn't be here right now Like the tea party does have a sizable chunk of the blame here Yeah, like like that's the thing.

Starting point is 00:23:45 Like this is all of your fucking fault. Lock them up quick. Zero to ten, zero to ten. Get them out, get them out, get them out. Now do you know what else we need to get out? Get out of stock. Oh. It's these products and services.

Starting point is 00:23:56 Yeah. Get them out of stock, get them out of stock. While you still can. Well, we still have an economy. We are back. Now, again, as I was saying, like this attempt to make the American economy function in a way that it has trade surpluses with every other country and also, and this is also important, these people don't think that like services are real and a lot of what the US exports is services, but because they're all these really weird, like, because they're all fascists, right?

Starting point is 00:24:29 They all have this, all of this weird ideological shit about masculinity and about the favoring of the concrete over the abstract, because the concrete is like, masculine, it is like, it is the nation, right? Like this, like, steel workers and people who fucking hammer coal out. Like this is what masculinity is, this is what nationalism is, this is what men are supposed to do. Yeah, you have the materialists on the evil side and you have the post-materialists on... Well, you know, okay, so this is... A long time ago, I did a bunch of episodes called Class and the Culture War. And one of the points that I make of that episode is that one of the arguments

Starting point is 00:25:07 that the Canadian Jewish Marxist historian Moish Pastone makes about what the Holocaust was, was this attempt to pit the concrete part of capital against the abstract part of capital, right? Where the concrete part of capital is like the nation and the worker and the factory and like the boss, right? And all of these like concrete Things were pitted against the like the quote-unquote abstract part of capital which is to say like quote-unquote like jewish financiers and all of the sort of like

Starting point is 00:25:36 weird collection of like modifiers That gets associated with like, you know, the ruthless posse of, apolitism, like the globalism, like all of this shit, right? And what the Nazis did was embody all of that stuff into just the figure of the Jewish person. And his arguments, and this is arguing about like sort of structural anti-Semitism and what the Holocaust was, was that that was what the Nazi revolution was. That's what the liquidation of, like, and this is how Basso describes liquidation of Jesus This is what this is what the Holocaust is what the genocide was was their attempt to destroy The like abstract part of part of this thing by pitting it against a concrete part of this thing And this is what these fucking people are also are also doing in their own way, right?

Starting point is 00:26:17 Like yeah, they're just doing it with like the price of eggs or like the availability of housing Yeah, right And you know and it's also with nothing like these people are like unhinged anti-semitic Right because this is all part of the same ideology They just sort of like they're doing the shit in different ways and they haven't like yeah I don't know like if these people are in power for like a decade We might just get this right where they're literally doing the Holocaust again, but like we're not at that point yet but we're at the point is where like this this kind of like under like this kind of fascist understanding of the nation and masculinity and like the concrete versus the abstract and like these figures can be like embodied in these things. This is also what

Starting point is 00:26:54 like what the I like this is what the administration is doing with immigrants, right? It's like casting them in that role of like the abstract, like the foreigner, the national, the anti-national. Those things are what is causing our economic problems, our housing problems. And then you have other instances, like with like Mexico and Canada, where they tie in the trade war with this like fentanyl thing, being like, you know, like immigrants are bringing fentanyl over the border, and we're using tariffs as a negotiating tactic to stop fentanyl. So like they're bringing in even more like aspects regarding like immigration and tying it directly to

Starting point is 00:27:29 like our trade wars with these massive, massive countries, some of our most important trading partners. Yeah, and this is causing an interesting split because Trump's like political coalition, right? it because Trump's like political coalition, right, has a bunch of kind of different kinds of fascists in a lot of ways. We're like Trump and Navarro and like, I mean, Trump is instinctually pro-tariff and like he can be talked out of it because again, this guy's brain, like we saw this thing in last administration, like the last person in the room with him can convince him of basically anything. But you know, those people are structurally committed to like this specific version of masculinity. And there's a lot of portions of the right that are that are committed to like

Starting point is 00:28:09 this trade policy is like the America first American nationalist thing. But like, someone like Elon Musk isn't that committed to this. And like even a lot of the people who are like the inner circle sort of like Yarvin like tech fascist right? Are like, okay, but hold on, like we make all of our shit in China. So like, you know, this is why like Elon has come on against the terrorists, because like, yeah, they're going to fuck him, like because he has to import stuff and export stuff from China, because that's where a bunch of his production facilities are. Right.

Starting point is 00:28:37 And, you know, and once you get out of the circle of of like that kind of like tech fascist, right, and the tech people are the people who are the most closely aligned with this administration right like in in terms of like all the sectors of capital tech is the most closely aligned one but you know you can get out into like places like fucking Walgreens and Walmart right and these are also like like the Waltons as a family are like traditional backers of the right for ages and ages and ages right they've been backers of far-right causes they also don't want this because also their

Starting point is 00:29:04 entire supply chains work through fucking China and work through moving a bunch of like commodities around. And the further out you go, when you start getting into like actual finance capital, these people are fucking terrified because they're looking at this and like, holy shit, we're about to lose all of our goddamn money. And the consequence of this is that all of this stuff

Starting point is 00:29:22 is shaping out in a sort of political battle in the administration over who can get Trump in the room last to try to figure out how the economy is going to work, but the problem is and I have been vindicated in this in the very brief amount of time between When the episode on Friday came out and we're recording this There are no negotiations with China like they haven't started. There's no process for starting them. Trump does keep lying about starting negotiations. He's just lying about this.

Starting point is 00:29:50 Chinese government says, no, we have not started negotiations. It's like, no, there's no negotiations. Yeah. And and again, like structurally, there can't be negotiations because there's no actual way for the US to like not have a trade deficit with China. Like there's no way you can do that. And that's the thing that'll satisfy these people. So all of this means that the economy is fucking dead, right? This is the sort of like free trade economy

Starting point is 00:30:13 we've all grown up in that functions off of like, you know, like fucking drop shipping and all this cheap production to a bunch of other countries and you know, like assemblies of a bunch of different like goods in different places. And the US is like the economic center of the world is just fucking gone. Now one of the reasons I started writing this episode in the first place is that I have read so much fucking analyses of these goddamn turf tariffs and do you know how many of them for a single

Starting point is 00:30:43 fucking second considered what this was going to be like for anyone who doesn't live in the United States what the fuck is wrong with people why does nobody fucking care about a single goddamn person who lives outside the United States I have read so many fucking analyses of this fucking shit I have read these things for I have read these things from the business papers I have read so many fucking analyses of this fucking shit. I have read these things from the business papers I have read these things from fascists. I have read these things from the center-left. I have read these things from leftists Do you know how many of these things have said anything about actual fucking people who do not live in the goddamn United States? Fucking none of them every once in a while. You'll get like this will be bad for the economy of China and this is

Starting point is 00:31:29 this is a catastrophe because the people who are going to be most affected by this when when the fucking turf terrorists from Liberation Day come back into effect over the summer are the working class of Sri Lanka this is going to be the fucking apocalypse for a bunch of people who have been going through hell for years and years and years and years it's going to be the fucking apocalypse for a bunch of people who have been going through hell for years and years and years and years It's going to be places like fucking Bolivia who is already facing a dollar crisis and struggling to import fuel It is going to be places like Bangladesh It is going to be places like Vietnam

Starting point is 00:31:56 Which is you know structurally in a better position than a lot of the rest of these countries But like fucking won't be in a structurally better like balance or structurally better position when it has like 90% goddamn tariffs on it. And yes, the US is going to be real fucking bad, right? Everything is going to cost a lot more money. All of us are going to have a lot less jobs. People who are in jobs are going to make a lot less money. There is going to be a lot of people fucking homeless.

Starting point is 00:32:18 There is going to be a lot of people who can't get fucking food. It is going to be a catastrophe. And also, at the same time, the US is going to look like fucking fully automated, luxury gay space communism compared to fucking Sri Lanka. This kind of sort of rote American nationalism that has consumed the brains of basically this entire goddamn country on a level so deep Americans don't even fucking think about it, like, is the reason why we fucking have all of this bullshit in the first place? And this is why, like, in like four fucking months, literally no one in the entire country, Social Security, is actually going to show up,

Starting point is 00:32:53 because a 19-year-old grow-up who doesn't understand SQL, because nobody in this fucking country gives a single shit about anyone who lives outside of the country enough to try to do a single goddamn word of analysis about how this is going to affect everyone. Because the death of the global economy will be felt here. It is going to be felt so much fucking worse everywhere else on goddamn Earth, and I am like, I am losing my fucking mind at the extent to which everyone is just fucking refusing to engage with this completely. This has been me being unbelievably fucking angry because like I don't know a bunch of my family doesn't live in this country which means I have to deal with the fact that like everyone else who lives in another country is a human being who's exactly the same

Starting point is 00:33:34 as fucking we are and this is a thing that nobody else appears to want to fucking deal with. I am losing my shit. Please god stop talking about the tariffs as if they only affect the United States and aren't mostly going to be born by everyone else. I didn't write a transition for this, but you know, I will transition out of this by again, going back to the fact that all of the reason this is going to be so bad is that the global economy is based on, you know, a combination of resource extraction and a combination of logistical supply lines that all rely on there not being 100% tariffs on goods imported to the U S and when this shit goes through and when the rest of the tariffs go through and make it, you know, the thing that's happening right now is an attempt to avoid this stuff is everyone, you know, and something like Nintendo has been talking about, right?

Starting point is 00:34:27 Where they were like, OK, our plan to avoid the tariffs on China is to move a bunch of our production into Vietnam. And that was happening anyways before the tariffs because of sort of rising labor costs in China and, you know, a whole bunch of sort of factors like that. a whole bunch of sort of factors like that. But none of that shit, none of that stuff that's like to sort of like keep the current global economy on a lifeline is going is going to be able to function once the tariffs on basically every country on Earth go into effect. And there's a second problem here, which is that, okay, so what is the new economy going to look like these people like the people running like the administration, right? Like people like Navarro and people like Trump and a lot of the sort of like right who is driving the policy thing here think that this that the production that's happening everywhere else in the world will just be replaced by the US and there was a trap that people fall into a Chinese economics and I do this too sometimes because it's you know, it's a fast and easy way to think about the Chinese economy and it's not accurate.

Starting point is 00:35:27 Well, it's not like it doesn't capture the whole picture of what's going on. But the way that people think about the Chinese economy tends to be that the reason that things are made in China is because labor is cheap there. Because either the culmination of exploitation and poverty. And that's true to an extent, right? But the actual sort of genius from capitalist perspective of capitalist returns to China was that, you know, from a capitalist perspective, the Chinese workforce, and this continues to be true 30 or 40 years into the transition, is highly educated and highly skilled. And the education was paid for not by capitalism, right? It was paid for by the sort of socialist system.

Starting point is 00:36:05 Like this combination of things of a highly educated and an increasingly highly skilled as they've been working these jobs means that there is an extremely high skill migrant labor population that knows how to do a bunch of shit like circuit board assembly and like stuff with like chip assembly, right? That is vital to making electronics. And the U S does not have a couple of hundred thousand migrant workers that you can just have and like exploit and not pay healthcare costs to, to know how all of the chip manufacturing shit works.

Starting point is 00:36:38 Right? There are people in the U S who know how to do some of these kinds of things, but we're talking, you know, even even though the US does have a manufacturing economy, and it is very high tech is not on the scale of these things. Right? And the second the second big reason why things are produced in China, and this is this is the reason why production didn't just shift all shifts out of China after 2011, when there were huge

Starting point is 00:37:02 protests there and huge riots there over sort of labor conditions is that there was an unbelievable amount of like capital outlet, like this physical factory infrastructure that is in China, that you can't easily just move out to another country. And this is this is the basic things like the power grid functions. Right. And you can't really easily replicate that. And you can't just have this thing that there's all these people want to do we're Like the US will just suddenly you know have all of these factories right and suddenly like all these things would just like come back

Starting point is 00:37:34 and miraculously like There will be all of these jobs because like who the fuck is going like we don't we literally we don't have the technology finished when I said what technology was like Who is going to build all of the factories right like the factories don't have the technology for this. Not so much technology, but it's like, who is going to build all of the factories, right? Like the factories don't exist here. The interlinked technical systems for them just don't exist here. You don't want to switch to costing $50,000

Starting point is 00:37:55 available in 10 years pre-order now. Sorry, no, available in 20 years. I forgot about the environmental impact surveys. Yeah, iPhone, iPhone 20 years. Yeah, but like, you know, and like a lot of this is because any like you know that you're hearing a lot of reports now with Like small business owners who are talking about like yeah It's so much easier to work with Chinese manufacturers like impossible to work with American manufacturers and part of that is just exploitation Right like yeah, there's a lot of things that like there

Starting point is 00:38:20 There were like labor conditions that are very common in China that do happen in the US but are much easier to do there but also like I don't know like China has like an entire network of like The ability to basically do this sort of like pop-up light and medium manufacturing that can like retool itself really quickly in the US Doesn't fucking have that right like we do have a bunch of manufacturing in the US right like that is the thing that we have But it was largely pushed into like the suburbs to get rid of sort of like the masses of workers that arose in cities like Detroit to like atomize them, right? And this is actually like also happening in China right now. Weirdly, like China has been pivoting to a surface economy for a long time. But think of this thing as a service economies. A lot of that shit is like also like dropshipping

Starting point is 00:39:01 production, right? But like, you know, there's no actual way for, you know, because for like capital outlay costs and things like that, there's no actual way to replicate the conditions in China that make it like an effective like source of global production in the US, or even in like a country like India, like they're just not the infrastructure there to do it. And there's not the sort of like migrant labor population, not the sort of things that you need. sort of like migrant labor population, not the sort of things that you need. And what this means right now, right, is that like, there is not a future lined up to replace the one that we're in right now. We literally don't know what this is going to do because no one has ever bothered planning

Starting point is 00:39:36 this shit out. Because this is just like taking a sledgehammer to fucking everything like they are trying to extract the copper wires from the house and in order to do this they like you know a because I think they think that's how the economy works is they strike copper wires and be their plan to extract the copper wires to blow the house up with dynamite and no no one's ever done an environmental impact statements on what if you blow the house up with dynamite because why the fuck would you do that right sometimes the police do that it's true it's true but and I But I guess the US is the world's police force.

Starting point is 00:40:07 There you go. No one has planned for this. But the second thing is there isn't another model of capital waiting in the wings in the way that there was when the sort of Reaganites did this to the economy. Because the Reaganites had an entire ideological apparatus. They had a functional way for the economy to work and be worse and be more exploitative. But there's nothing behind this, right? There's just a vision that literally cannot work. And so the place that I want to end as we head into the end of the economy and as you know, like I've been trying to grapple with what is it going to look like after this, is that if we just don't know things in the supply chain are going to break that we have never thought about before like medical systems are

Starting point is 00:40:51 going to start breaking down right the supply chains for like like really really basic goods that we don't even think about the production process of is going to start breaking down because it relies on being able to cheaply import one very very specific kind of like I don't know like ball bearing that's made in one factory and suddenly cost like 400 times as much as it did before and we don't know what that's going to do and this is on the one hand absolutely horrifying right like this is going to do. And this is on the one hand, absolutely horrifying, right? Like this is going to mean an unbelievable amount of suffering for people across the world. But on the other hand, there is no plan, right? They don't have a fucking strategy. And that means that

Starting point is 00:41:38 the future of the global economy is up in the air. And it's up to us to make it a fucking better one, right? It's we either drive these people from power and we and we destroy the basis of their power on such a fundamental level they can never return to power right like we just we just fucking kneecap them we physically seize all of the fucking assets and all the things of the productive capacity that they have that has been allowing you to do this we make sure they can never get it again we make sure that we fucking control it. And we either do that, or we all get crushed for a generation and we enter a period of just unmitigated global suffering, the likes of which only a few people

Starting point is 00:42:17 in the most hideously war-torn parts of the world have experienced today. have experienced today. Yay! I for one am very excited to see the the anarchist liberal re-globalization alliance finally fighting in the streets of Seattle to to regain globalization full circle. You know I will point out the reason they all called it ultra globalization and not anti globalization was that like one of the one of the original one of them didn't say Anti-globalization did right but like like like a lot of their argument was like the West Coast team certainly to this is true but like it's also it's also true that like like what like one of the arguments they were making was that like

Starting point is 00:42:58 neoliberal globalization meant that People couldn't move to places but capital could and the thing that they want was a world where people can move between things and like, fuck capital, what the fuck, like eat shit, right? And that's a world that we can build, right? We can build a world where fucking nobody gets arrested by the immigration Gestapo, where like there isn't a fucking line on the ground that dictates whether people can disappear into a concentration camp. And that is also globalization!

Starting point is 00:43:25 Right? We just have to fucking do it. Anarcho-Clintonism. One day we can look at a beautiful world. Look, if Bill Kristol can admit the radicals were right, all of these other motherfuckers can come around. We've been right all the- we've been right the whole fucking time. Fuck you assholes!

Starting point is 00:43:44 It's a strange- All of you broke this world, and it is now our job to put it back together, and you fuckers are going to back us, or we are all going to be killed by fascism, those are the terms, deal with it! It's a strange world we live in. Whew... And the dream season is now complete. The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship.

Starting point is 00:44:28 We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being benched. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey.

Starting point is 00:44:52 We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptUSkids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSkids,

Starting point is 00:45:15 the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko.

Starting point is 00:45:32 It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend, and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommates' toenails and fingernails.

Starting point is 00:46:01 I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for therapy gecko on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glodd. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. We are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care

Starting point is 00:46:41 for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette.

Starting point is 00:46:59 MMA fighter Liz Karamouche. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two.

Starting point is 00:47:13 On the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcast. Hello and welcome to It Could Happen here. I'm here to ask you if you can imagine a world where national borders don't define our identities. This internationalist idea has historically been known as cosmopolitanism, and it has some deep roots, including, interestingly, some connection to anarchism. And of course, that's what we're seeking to explore here today. I'm joined once again by the one and

Starting point is 00:48:03 only… It's James. James Stout. Thanks for having me, Andrew. I'm excited about this one. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation. Are you familiar with cosmopolitanism? Yeah. And like, I guess the more broad sphere of like anarchist internationalism is something I'm very interested in. Like we had an interview on the show maybe two weeks ago, a few weeks ago, and people hear this with people explicitly calling themselves internationalists fighting in Myanmar. Of course, I've spent time in Rojava and with internationalists

Starting point is 00:48:36 there. So internationalism is something I'm really interested in. For sure, for sure. I think it's a very compelling and inspiring idea, especially in a world that lacks many of those ideas. At its core, cosmopolitanism is just the belief that all human beings belong to the same shared moral and political community that transcends national, cultural, and political boundaries. In the book, Cosmopolitanism, Ethics in a World of Strangers, philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah describes cosmopolitanism, Ethics in a World of Strangers, philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah describes cosmopolitanism as, quote, "...two strands that intertwine in the notion of cosmopolitanism.

Starting point is 00:49:13 One is the idea that we have obligations to others, obligations that stretch beyond those to whom we are related by the ties of kith and kin, or even the more formal ties of shared citizenship. The other is that we take seriously the value not just of human life, but of particular human lives, which means taking an interest in the practices and beliefs that lend them significance. People are different. The cosmopolitan knows and there is much to learn from our differences. Because there are so many human possibilities worth exploring, we neither expect nor desire that every person or every society should

Starting point is 00:49:45 converge on a single mode of life. Whatever obligations are to others or theirs to us, they often have the right to go their own way. So basically we have obligations to others beyond just our immediate affiliations and that human diversity is something to be valued, not just tolerated. So it's not the idea of assimilating all of humanity into one singular culture or society or government. It's the idea of recognizing and embracing the diversity of humans, but recognizing our shared affinity all the same. There are a couple different versions of cosmopolitanism. There's the moral cosmopolitanism, or the idea that all humans have equal moral worth. There's political cosmopolitanism, the idea that global governance or international institutions

Starting point is 00:50:34 should supersede national borders. And there's cultural cosmopolitanism, which is the blending and exchange of cultures through migration, trade, and shared histories. But cosmopolitanism, fully embraced, has, I would say, an inherent tension with power, especially nationalism, the state, and capitalism. And while it's true that liberal cosmopolitanism relies on global institutions like the United Nations and reinforces hierarchies, anarchist cosmopolitanism envisions a world where solidarity, cooperation, and mutual aid emerge from below through free association rather than being imposed from above.

Starting point is 00:51:12 So today we'll be unpacking the history of cosmopolitanism, how anarchists have engaged with the topic, and why it remains somewhat of a battleground today. The term itself comes from the Greek cosmopolites, which means citizen of the world. The earliest articulation of this idea is often attributed to Diogenes of Sinope, who was a Cynic philosopher who, when asked where he came from, simply replied, I am a citizen of the world. According to Martha Nussbaum, Greek Stoics like Zeno of Scythium, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius expanded on this idea, arguing that humanity shares a universal reason and should live in accordance with nature, not artificial divisions of state or tribe. Of course, many of these philosophers didn't have any issue with patriarchy or

Starting point is 00:52:02 slavery in Greece, so there is some inconsistency in their concept of a shared humanity. Yeah, it's who counts as human, I guess, isn't it? Like, it's pretty bleak. Indeed. But let's fast forward a bit. During the Enlightenment, we see a more structured political philosophy of cosmopolitanism emerging. Immanuel Kant was one of its most famous proponents. In the book Perpetual Peace, Kant imagined a cosmopolitan condition where individuals, not just states, had universal rights, and where a global federation of free republics would ensure peace and cooperation.

Starting point is 00:52:39 However, his version of cosmopolitanism still relied on legal structures and state-based governance. Another nightmare thinker associated with cosmopolitanism was Denis Diderot, who criticised colonialism and argued for a cultural exchange free from that kind of domination. He also argued against monarchy, the church and aristocratic privileges, as they were obstacles to a truly free and universal human community. Which then brings us to the French Revolution, which brought these ideas into the real world. Revolutionaries declared the rights of man and of the citizen, which proclaimed universal rights beyond national or social status. But the

Starting point is 00:53:18 revolution soon became entangled with nationalism, particularly under the Jacobins, who suppressed dissent and waged wars in the name of France. Meanwhile, the Haitian Revolution provided a different example of liberation in practice. Enslaved Africans, inspired by the French Revolution's rhetoric of liberty and equality, revolted against French colonial rule and established the first free Black Republic. The revolutionaries led by Toussaint Louverture argued that liberty was a universal human right, not one limited to European citizens, and declared Haiti a refuge to all enslaved persons.

Starting point is 00:53:55 But despite its radical implications, the Haitian Revolution was largely ignored or outright opposed by European powers. Their so-called enlightenment only extended to Europe, ignoring our racial and colonial realities. We also see in this time the emergence of nationalism, which on the one hand promoted self-determination for all oppressed nations, but on the other hand saw the nation-state as a superior form of political organisation. So anarchists were among the earliest critics of nationalism. Pedro de Prud'an, for instance, rejected both the nation-state and centralised cosmopolitan

Starting point is 00:54:43 governance, instead advocating for federation, a frequently misunderstood concept that refers in anarchist literature to a decentralised network of freely associating individuals and groups working in solidarity. Similarly, Mikhail Bakunin attacked nationalism as a tool of ruling elites, arguing that states used national identity to suppress class struggle and international solidarity. Bakunin did back national liberation movements, but he understood the danger of nationalism as a force that often replaces foreign rulers with homegrown oppressors. Instead, Bakunin promoted anarchist internationalism, where workers and oppressed peoples across

Starting point is 00:55:25 borders would unite against both capitalist and state powers. By contrast, the Bolsheviks would eventually develop the idea of socialism in one country, and the ever paranoid Stalin would famously deride Jewish intellectuals as quote, rootless cosmopolitans. This of course aligned him with the rest of Europe's nationalists in their anti-Semitism, inaccurate cricketerization of cosmopolitanism as opposed to cultural identity or sovereignty, and a ramid defense of national borders. Honestly, I would not be surprised if Trump or Putin used some equivalent to rootless cosmopolitanism today. Yeah, yeah. I did see, um, it was like a pro-Trump account, I guess, consciously or unconsciously paraphrasing Stalin this week. So that was great.

Starting point is 00:56:13 Really? What did they say? It was like how many divisions does the judge command? Which is a, I think there might be a quote from Stalin, it's not a quote, it's a paraphrase, right, but in this case it's a reference to the attempts by a district court judge in GC to block the rendition of people to El Salvador who were accused of being members of various gangs, Tren de Aragua and Mara Salvatrucha being the two main ones. Yes, they're just being expelled. What's the connection to Stalin though? The quote, how many divisions does the judge command? Let me pretty sure. How many divisions

Starting point is 00:56:50 does the pope command with the Stalin Quote? That's right. So like it's referencing this idea that like might makes right. And like that, you know, if you have the power of the state, then you're not accountable to morally or even within the confines of the state, like separation of powers that was supposed to happen in the US right like if you have the monopoly on coercive violence and you you're no longer constrained by those things. Right. Yeah. I see. I see. So of course, anarchists oppose all those things they oppose what is happening now and they oppose what was happening then. From its inception, anarchism has been an internationalist movement, rejecting the artificial borders imposed by states and championing

Starting point is 00:57:34 global solidarity. Unlike Marxist internationalism, which has often relied on the centralized structures of the first, second or third Internationals, anarchists emphasised decentralised horizontal networks of struggle that connected workers, revolutionaries and stateless peoples across continents. The Anarchist Saint-Emier International, which ran from 1872 to 1877, was one such network, as discussed by Lucien van der Waal and Schmidt in Black Flame. That group explicitly rejected nationalism and state power. And throughout history, anarchists worked to bridge linguistic, cultural, and national divides from multilingual anarchist newspapers in the 19th and 20th centuries,

Starting point is 00:58:21 such as La Protesta in Argentina, Der Kampf in Germany, and Le Libertére in France, through transnational, syndicalist movements like the Industrial Workers of the World, which organized workers across race, nationality, and language in the early 20th century, and including contemporary mutual aid networks, where anarchists coordinated across borders to support refugees, disaster relief, and indigenous land struggles. Anarchist networks, contrary to popular belief, often extended beyond Europe into North Africa, Asia, and Latin America, where anti-colonial and labor struggles intertwined with anarchist thought. If you're curious, by the way, about the anarchist histories of Egypt or the rest of Latin America, you can check out my series on it right here on the It Can Happen Here podcast.

Starting point is 00:59:05 And if you've listened to that series, you'll know that because anarchists were constantly persecuted, exile became a defining experience, which further reinforced their internationalism. Folks like Mikhail Bakunin, Peter Kropotkin, and Eric Omanatester moved across continents, spreading anarchist ideas and connecting struggles. My old Tester in particular was basically a common San Diego. You know, he touched multiple continents over the course of his life. So by the late 19th century, anarchists like Rudolf Rocker developed an alternative to both statist nationalism and liberal cosmopolitanism, which sought to balance cultural diversity

Starting point is 00:59:44 with global solidarity from below. Rokker argued that people should be free to maintain their cultural traditions without being bound to the state or a nationalist identity. So liberal cosmopolitanism was pushing out global order through state-led interventions, international institutions, and legal frameworks. And while this form of cosmopolitanism has led to some gains on paper in human rights, international refugee protections, and anti-genocide treaties, well for one we see the failures of these institutions in practice daily, and for two they ultimately reinforce the state power that creates so much harm rather than

Starting point is 01:00:20 dismantling it. The UN and the WTO often uphold the interest of powerful states above and before their international laws and obligations while sidelining grassroots movements. While liberal cosmopolitanism sits on its hands waiting for elite-driven reforms to the system, anarchists engage in direct action to support migrants and other marginalized folks without waiting for such reform. I have to give a shout out here of course to the No Borders Network and also a shout out to the work that you do James on the side. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. There's obviously a lot more people than me doing it. Of course. So the sad part is even if it started with some noble ideal,

Starting point is 01:01:02 the concept of liberal cosmopolitanism today doesn't so much manifest in the freedom of people, but more so in the freedom of markets and money. The globalization of markets and money. So we will bring McDonald's and Netflix to your country, but you can't come to our country or we'll kill you. Yeah, that's about it. It was really interesting too, like, the moment I sort of became aware of libertarian left politics was in the early 2000s, in the context of the movement against like the G8, as it was then. And like, at the time, it would be referred to in the legacy media as like

Starting point is 01:01:52 anti-globalization. Right. Which I don't think it ever was, right? By definition, it was very global. Like you had people from all around the world attending these protests and rallies and speeches and such. Like it was a very global movement. The problem was not with globalization, cosmopolitanism, internationalism. It was with the nature of neoliberal capitalist globalization, which let capital move and stop people from moving. Exactly. It's about opposition suggests the free reign of exploiters across the globe. Yeah, exactly. We let people take their money and employ people at lower wages, but God forbid those people ever want better for themselves or attempt to come somewhere where they could

Starting point is 01:02:31 materially benefit themselves doing the same labor in a different nation, for instance. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I've never really been a respecter of borders. I think they're just, I think they're really, really blatantly foolish in position. I don't even think you need to be a radical to see the issue with this idea that your spawn point has to determine your entire future. That some people in the past could cut up the earth and then decide where you can roam freely. I think anyone, I see a lot more from people who are not by any means radical or even on the left, like within Europe, right, within the Schengen area, which the UK has decided

Starting point is 01:03:17 to remove itself from for reasons that are largely racism. Like we could move freely. When I grew up, my identity and experience was much more European than necessarily British, right? I could go for the weekend to Spain if I wanted to, or France, and flights were cheap then. So it did. Like I used to get on Friday night,

Starting point is 01:03:37 take a train to Belgium, race my bike in Belgium, and come back on Sunday night, like very, very often. And like you see it here too in San Diego, where like the border is just a line and a delay, but for most people, like, we're a very binational community. Unfortunately, the one way that that manifests itself is that the cost of living in San Diego compared to the average wage is vastly disparate because we have this overpressure valve where, like, if people kind of

Starting point is 01:04:05 fall here they can live across the border where the cost of living is cheaper and that allows people to exploit working class people in both contexts sadly. Right. Yeah. As you mentioned, the UK by the way, I'm not sure if you've heard the news, but Trinidad has recently been imposed visa requirements by the UK. For fuck's sake. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:27 Really? Yeah, so thankfully we still have Schengen area access. Yeah. But just recently the UK was like due to, yeah, the usual excuse, people abusing the asylum seeking system that has now removed our visa exemption. So our colonizers have now decided that, you know, we don't want you to move free in our

Starting point is 01:04:49 country, we want you to pay. And visas are not cheap, they're never cheap, especially when there's no guarantee of them being accepted. Yeah. It makes it all the more frustrating. Yeah. And like this just comes after the British government attempting to deport Afro-Caribbean migrants who came as part of what we call the Windrush generation,

Starting point is 01:05:15 which is just one of the most disgusting and like, yeah, just one of the most venal pathetic things I've ever seen a government do. These people who the UK asked to come so that it could rebuild this economy after the Second World War and then taking advantage of the fact that at that time there was no process for regularization and then try to deport these people who have lived their whole lives in the UK. It's, it's just horrific. Yeah, it is. It's horrific.

Starting point is 01:05:34 It's frustrating. It's infuriating really. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me really angry. Uh, like if we didn't have the Windrush generation, not that like, you need like popular music to justify their existence as a part of our community. and they should be able to stay, but we wouldn't have punk music if we wouldn't have a scar music.

Starting point is 01:05:51 We like so much of what is like integral to even like quote unquote British culture. I did actually came from these people because they are British and they belong there just as much as anyone else. Yeah. I used to teach a class about music and colonial culture and colonialism, which is why that comes to mind. I actually missed an opportunity to go to the UK earlier this year. I didn't want to pay the cost to fly to go at that point in time.

Starting point is 01:06:21 And now I deeply regret it because I'm like, I could have gone... Honestly, I think if you're the UK and your country has stolen so much, like, I think the UK has the least right or justification out of any country. If you had to concede that a country should be lost, and I don't give any country that concession, but if you had to give that concession, you could be last to receive that concession. As far as I'm concerned, you don't get to go and roam across the entire planet and then shut yourself off. Yeah. You don't get to go and steal and pilfer from across the world, shuffle it all

Starting point is 01:06:56 into your national museum and then block people from accessing it. Yeah. It is just like, it's just the most clear and pathetic, like two level standard or whatever, you know, like it's, I mean, the UK has a very, I'm sorry you didn't get to visit in one sense. And I'm sure we have lots of listeners who are in the UK. Every time I'm home, I feel this like profound sense of like post-colonial melancholy that the UK, it's just sort of, it's getting worse and worse and worse.

Starting point is 01:07:25 And the way that Britain is responding is without our government blaming everyone else and like trying to strip the state for parts. Yeah, like stealing everything they can. Just mess. Yeah. Yeah. I think another frustration for me as well is that it's not to watch the country itself, although I would have loved to have visited like Scotland and, you know, Wales and that kind of thing.

Starting point is 01:07:50 But I know all the stuff there is to see in London, but the biggest frustration for me is that it's a connection point. You know, when you impose a visa like that, you block people's connections to other areas. When the few direct flights outside of this hemisphere, you know, to the European and African hemisphere is through a flight to the UK. And so by adding that in position, it's like it's like the world feels like it's being closed. Yeah, yeah, you can see that. One more where there was almost a time in the recent past where it felt like the world was opening up to people, you know, with the internet, the rise of the internet, and then you had,

Starting point is 01:08:30 you know, the introduction of things like the Schengen agreement, our access to the Schengen area was fairly recent. I think it was 2015 we got that access. But to go from that point to like, just so quickly, you know, the tide shifts to now this extremely hostile global order towards something as fundamental as the movement of people. Yeah, it's it definitely we definitely are entering in it like an era where things are becoming more closed off again than than many of us grew up with. off again. Then many of us grew up with, right? Many of us, you know, most of my experience that I can remember was being able to move freely through Europe. And that's not the case anymore for British citizens. Yeah, like it's getting visas and everything else is

Starting point is 01:09:15 getting harder and harder to move around the world. And despite the internet somewhat connecting us, like our physical mobility is certainly much more limited. Indeed. I think the idea of cosmopolitanism, getting back to it, I think it's valuable. I think, you know, the idea that we have obligations to others beyond just our immediate affiliations is important, you know, that human diversity is something to be valued, not just tolerated. That's fantastic. Carl Levy, an anarchist scholar who wrote two pieces on cosmopolitanism that I'll link in the show notes, has argued that anarchism's history offers a third way between the hierarchical globalism of liberal cosmopolitanism, which relies on state-driven global governance,

Starting point is 01:10:01 and exclusionary nationalism, which weaponises identity and borders, often ensuvers to the far right. And that third way that anarchism presents, not third way in the sense of fascism, but third way in the sense of anarchist possibilities, is a kind of federated pluralism. It's a web of self-organised groups that interact freely without a central authority. This vision isn't just theoretical, we've seen it in recent history, through anti-globalisation protests, the Occupy movement, the Square movements in Egypt, Spain and beyond. And though flawed, they show the potential, not yet fully realised, for diverse, place-based struggles that remain

Starting point is 01:10:41 connected through mutuality and transnational solidarity. We have to avoid the sort of abstract universalism that can be found in cosmopolitan thought. We must incorporate decolonial struggles and crown cosmopolitan practice into voluntary cooperation of people, acted in solidarity, across differences. Ultimately, the question isn't whether anarchists should engage with cosmopolitanism, because they always have. The real question is how anarchists can cultivate a cosmopolitanism that is truly liberatory. When the connect struggles without erasing difference, fosters solidarity without enforcing

Starting point is 01:11:18 uniformity, and builds a world where cooperation and not domination defines our relationships. That's all I have for today. All power to all the people. Peace. And the dream season is now complete. The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being benched.

Starting point is 01:12:06 For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dubb Dynasty on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend.

Starting point is 01:12:33 At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptUSkids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSkids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.

Starting point is 01:12:54 I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples

Starting point is 01:13:22 of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his his jar in our apartment I collect my roommates toenails and fingernails I have very overbearing parents even at the age of 29 They won't let me move out of their house So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head search for Therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Starting point is 01:13:50 It's the one with the green guy on it. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glott. And this is season two of the World on Drugs podcast. Yes sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

Starting point is 01:14:01 This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug ban.

Starting point is 01:14:22 Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter. Liz Karamouche.

Starting point is 01:14:32 What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts are wherever you get your podcasts. it real. Dark Woke is back! Ten more years of liberal supremacy, bankers in control in the great

Starting point is 01:15:15 nation of Canada. This is It Could Happen Here, I'm Garrison Davis, I'm joined by James Stout. We are discussing the 2025 Canadian election, which I maybe slightly exaggerated in the opening there. But the election did happen yesterday or two days ago, whenever you're listening to this. I was up all day on CBC and on elections.ca checking in on all the charts and all the stats to see how this kind of upset election went and oh boy, did it go. James, how much do you know about Canada and elections? Both of those things are things that I have some knowledge

Starting point is 01:15:59 about, I've been to Canada twice. That's good. A fellow Commonwealth member. I guess, yeah, we are both citizens of the Commonwealth. A fellow Commonwealth member. I guess yeah we are both citizens of the Commonwealth so yeah there we go. Does Canada have a queen on the money? Queen is dead! Dead queen! Queen is dead. But yes we do have queen on money. Queen on money so that's another thing I understand. We have a parliamentary system like yeah like yeah like do I say England or like Britain or UK? It's the yeah, it's the United Kingdom

Starting point is 01:16:26 I think would be the institution The Parliament have fun with that Great Britain Northern Ireland Well, we have one of those two but it's less confusing because it's just one country We don't try to be three countries like like you and UK Britain and England We're a continent lit a mini continent. That's what we're going for. We've left Europe, we're on our way to the Caribbean slowly. Oops. Yeah, luckily Canada's doing just fine. Debatable, but certainly this election has gone probably slightly better for global stability and stopping the advance of far-right populism

Starting point is 01:17:03 than certainly what it looked a few months ago. Yeah. For people who don't know, yes, Canada has a parliamentary system. People do not elect the prime minister directly. They elect the MP in their district, which is called a riding. It's a first-past-the-post system, so whoever gets the most votes in each riding, they get their

Starting point is 01:17:23 representatives sent to parliament, the party with the most representatives, they take control of the government, and that is who the prime minister is. And the next prime minister of Canada will be Mark Carney, who assumed the prime minister role like last month, winning the liberal election after Justin Trudeau resigned in January. And before we get into some of the results, I first a little bit of an election kind of background. So liberals have been in power for nearly a decade, slowly getting less and less popular as the cost of living has risen. Last election in 2021, the liberals kept their minority government, but the leader of their party, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, continued to decline

Starting point is 01:18:07 in popularity. By the end of 2024, his approval rating was just 22%, or net negative 52%. Conservatives were up 25 points in the polls. It was a near certainty that they would sweep the next election. Trudeau announced his resignation on January 6th, kind of the January 6th of Canada if you think about it. Former banker Mark Carney won the party election in March of 2025. Carney quickly called for an election to write off the peak of anti-Trump sentiment sweeping across Canada. This was following Trump's talk of annexing Canada and the global trade war and tariffs directed at the American neighbor

Starting point is 01:18:46 upstairs next door. I don't know. Yeah, downstairs south. No, from America. It's obviously yeah. Okay. Yeah. From Yeah, got it. I'm just maybe a northern standpoint, but who cares? Now, this election or an election would have happened by October 2025 regardless, but calling it early was a smart move by liberals as this was the first time in three years that they had led in the polls. Support for other third parties like the Quebecois Bloc and the National Democratic Party, the NDP, had slowly been shifting towards the liberals. And we saw this in the results Monday night. At this point, the liberals

Starting point is 01:19:26 are projected to win 168 seats, falling barely short of the 172 majority. There's still, as of time of recording, still a possible path for them gaining a majority government, but it's fairly unlikely it'll probably be a minority government. The Conservatives have won 144 seats, the Blocs de Bécois 23, and the NDP a measly 7, with the Green Party snagging 1. Liberals also secured the largest vote share, 43.6% of the vote, compared to the Conservatives 41.4%. Though, because of vote efficiency, basically how spread apart certain votes are, this has still led to much more seats for the liberals than the conservatives,

Starting point is 01:20:11 right? If you have more conservatives voting in a district that's going to go conservative anyway, those extra votes don't necessarily mean there's going to be more representation in parliament. That's the vote efficiency idea. Yeah, class-class supposed to is a very bad system as electoral systems go. It leads to an awful lot of votes not counting for any representation. Like, for instance, the Garrison Davis party could have 51% of votes in all writings and I could be there at 49 and I would get zero MPs. Based. Hey, sounds fine this sounds fine by me.

Starting point is 01:20:47 Garrison Davis in control. Well this is kind of what happens in Canada. The election system in Canada is pretty swayed towards the Liberals because of how much more dispersed they are versus most conservative supporters in the Western provinces, Saskatchewan, Alberta, a bit in BC, and a growing presence in Ontario. But yeah, the Liberals kind of always get a bit of a boost in the election. Now, we did have record high early turnout in Canada, 7.3 million people cast their vote early during Easter week. The full turnout is higher than it was the past few elections, but it matches pretty

Starting point is 01:21:23 much to the 2015 election. So to get a majority government you need 172 seats. This allows you to not have to worry about no confidence votes, which trigger new elections, and you don't need to work with other parties to pass legislation. Now this will probably be a minority government, with the Libs having to work with a small number of remaining NDP and block seats to run the government, which one could consider a good thing in terms of being pushed maybe towards some better policies rather than just like liberal supremacy, but it also means government will be more unstable and it kind of gives the Conservatives more room to wiggle, so it's definitely a mixed bag. As reporting first came in for Atlantic Canada, it showed that this would be a tighter race than what the liberals were hoping for.

Starting point is 01:22:13 During election night, it seemed conservatives were on track to pick up two seats in New foundland, though in the end, the liberal incumbent barely kept their seat, beating the Conservative challenger by 12 votes in Terra Nova, the peninsula. The Libs did fare much better in Quebec though, they flipped 11 seats. This was the best performance by Liberals in Quebec in years. Conservatives gained some seats from the Liberals in Ontario under Doug Ford, with Conservatives flipping seats around the Toronto suburbs. One of the biggest stories of this election was just the complete NDP collapse, the progressive

Starting point is 01:22:52 kind of democratic socialist new democratic party. They're currently projected to lose 17 of their 24 previously held seats. The NDP basically gave Carney this election. Jagmeet Singh lost his seat, that's the leader of the NDP. He lost his seat to Wei Chung, a liberal, and stepped down as leader on Monday night. Part of what makes this such a big setback for the NDP is that because they failed to win at least 12 seats, they actually lose official party status in parliament. Parties have to win at least 12 seats to be recognized as an official party in the House

Starting point is 01:23:30 of Commons. Official parties get to have offices in parliament, extra staff, they get to ask questions in legislative sessions, and can sit on committees. Now, the NDP did previously lose party status in 1993, winning only nine seats in that election, but this performance was slightly worse, hitting only seven. So this is going to be a big shakeup. The NDP is going to have to be forced to rebuild, which is maybe necessary based on kind of a degree of NDP stagnation the past decade.

Starting point is 01:24:02 They're kind of caught in like 2017 politics in my opinion, though Singh did lead them to pass some significant legislation. And progressive policies do have a degree of popularity in Canada. The NDP was polling about the same as the Liberals just three months ago. The movement that we're seeing is from NDP voters scared of Poliev and Trump, so they moved to Carney to avoid splitting the left vote, as Carney was seen as more capable of beating Poliev than the NDP leader Singh and certainly Justin Trudeau. Now funnily enough, some of this quote unquote strategic voting actually did end up splitting

Starting point is 01:24:40 the vote in a place like BC and specifically Vancouver, which recently has gone strongly NDP, but this year the conservatives were able to snag three seats because enough previous NDP voters ended up going liberal in an attempt to gain a liberal majority, but that resulted in neither the NDP nor the liberal candidate actually individually getting enough votes to win the writing. Let's talk about vote share compared to the last 2021 election. So liberals did fairly well this election, especially compared to previous ones. They gained over 10 points compared to the last election in 2021. Conservatives also didn't do badly actually. Like they

Starting point is 01:25:24 actually did okay. This certainly wasn't the result they were wanting, but they did not do bad. They gained over seven and a half points this race. Reliable conservative voters still voted conservative, and they were able to siphon off some support from other parties, with conservatives doing slightly better than what polling predicted, but a lot of very close races across key districts. Now where all those extra votes or vote movement is coming from is all of the third parties. The Green Party and the Bloc Québécois both dropped over a point.

Starting point is 01:25:59 The far-right People's Party dropped four points, and the NDP dropped 11.6. Huge losses for the NDP. Most of those voters probably going liberal, although some may just not have voted. One of the more interesting parts about this election is that the Conservative Party leader Pierre Polyev lost his parliamentary seat. He lost to liberal Bruce Fanjoy by about 4,000 votes. Oh damn! 4.6% of the vote. So this is going to probably cause a bit of an upset in the conservative party. There might be some internal conflict over whether Polyev should continue as party leader, though he did not step down from that position during his concession speech Monday night. James, do you have any thoughts here before we pivot to ads?

Starting point is 01:26:49 It wouldn't be such a, like, seen as such a humiliation for the conservatives if it wasn't for all the polling until maybe like a couple of months ago, right? Yes. The reason why it's such an upset is because they were like destined to win as almost like divinely written into fate Like three months ago and the fact that they they fumbled this is gonna be like a massive like historical footnote Not even a footnote. This is like a historical topic is how conservatives fumbled this election Yeah, like people the thing is the liberals want, despite people having been pissed off with them for a long time and wanting something different. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:27:29 Yeah. Because people were just, like, mad at Trump. And we will talk more about the background of the lead up to this race and those dynamics that James mentioned in the next segment after these ads. Music Okay, to talk more about the lead up to this race and Trump's influence on this election, I talked with Lance from the SERFS, a fellow Canadian who talks about politics just as much as I do. So here is that interview that I recorded just a few hours before the polls closed in Canada. Hey, my name is Lance.

Starting point is 01:28:15 I run a number of different channels, usually under the banner of the Serfs. There's youtube.com slash the Serf Times and at the Serfs TV on most other social media. I cover news, politics, internet, slop, usually from a dumpster fire-like perspective. And you're Canadian, importantly. I am as well. Yeah, I am Canadian, but I have been resigned to living in the States for quite a while. I actually just had some Canadian family visit me,

Starting point is 01:28:40 and they kept making fun of me for living in the States, specifically because the States, specifically because the States are trying to take Canadian territory, seemingly. So now I'm getting a lot of hate from my Canadian family members for living in America, which is interesting. I was going to say, this is going to be a scary time to be living in the United States as a Canadian citizen. A little bit.

Starting point is 01:29:02 I am dual, but we'll see how long that matters. Yeah. So, I want to talk a little bit about kind of the background of this election, because I think this is maybe the most interesting Canadian election in the past 10 years, specifically because of how much the results have always felt inevitable, but the actual results have like flip-flop. Three months ago, four months ago, I'm sure that me and you may have predicted probably something resembling a conservative sweep. Not to put words in your mouth. Well, minority or majority government led by the conservatives, no question.

Starting point is 01:29:40 That was where all the major polling was trending. And then the exact opposite on this roller coaster election in both directions. I think it's pretty easily explainable, especially to your American listeners who might have been wondering what was happening. Essentially, the country had a combination of burnout on Justin Trudeau. And the person who replaced Justin Trudeau, Mark Carney, effectively took the number one campaign. It was the actual campaign slogan of the conservatives away from him immediately after being crowned the

Starting point is 01:30:10 new leader of the Liberal Party, which was, axe the tax, which is what, you know, Fascist Milhouse, who we call Pierre Polievko over here. That was his big campaign promise. The conservatives were going to axe the carbon tax and that had a lot of people excited. A lot of people didn't like Justin Trudeau and then along comes Mark Carney and he takes both of those things away from the conservatives. He's not Justin Trudeau and he acts the tax. And so they had to kind of completely reset and this was before the wild card of Trump

Starting point is 01:30:38 shows up. Yeah. Which of course now is scaring not only Canada but the world, I would say. Like most countries now are kind of having to completely reset how they think and want to do geopolitics into the future because of his policies. Well, and I know like a decent chunk of the Alberta economy is now in great jeopardy because they can't sell fuck Trudeau merchandise. Which was propping up their entire economy outside of the oil.

Starting point is 01:31:02 Yeah, well, if you ignore the oil, which will probably be fine. Yeah. Yeah, I guess, could we talk a little bit about kind of what led to this universal hatred of Justin Trudeau in like the past like five years, just like ever so briefly? Yeah, for conservatives, a lot of it really became increasingly more intense with COVID. And I think internationally, there was an association with very basic safety protocols and tyr COVID. And I think internationally there was an association with very basic safety protocols and tyranny. So I guess some people, the United States and Canada, both saw the idea of wearing a mask rather than to wash our hands as some form of dictatorship

Starting point is 01:31:36 akin to some of the worst war crimes ever committed on any population. That made a schism happen where the sentiment kind of really started accelerating towards less of, you know, blaming Trudeau for everything, kind of like Obama, that used to be a joke, like, ah, Trudeau, to actual fuck Trudeau merchandise, and the idea of, you know, Trudeau being an enemy of the state and a communist dictator. Yeah, that was on the right side of things. On the left side of things,

Starting point is 01:32:01 everyone got burned out from Trudeau because of the performative progressive politics of his entire character. He was very vocal about standing up for a lot of issues that on one end he would, you know, pretend to care about, such as indigenous rights, land backs, stuff like that. And then he would be suing the survivors of residential schools in federal court to try and prevent them from getting too much money from the federal government. So there was a lot of Trudeau seems to performatively enjoy being perceived as someone who's enlightened and progressive and trying to steer the society in a good direction where his policies are effectively exacerbating wealth inequality very rapidly, because that's effectively what you get with neoliberal centrists, right?

Starting point is 01:32:38 Yeah. And like to go back to that COVID thing, like I was in Calgary in like spring of 2022 and I was getting like made fun of in like bars and clubs for like wearing a mask at that point in time. Like that is Alberta. But yeah, no, that was definitely like strong. We certainly saw degrees of that here in the States as well. But yeah, you know, it's a little bit of that like general anti-incumb incumbent sentiment was growing so much last year, which we saw levied against the Democrats in the

Starting point is 01:33:08 states and certainly against the liberals and the way that the liberals in Canada have kind of been able to maneuver away from that in the way that like the Democrats haven't is super interesting. It's not necessarily like replicable, especially for US politics, but it still is interesting. I guess, like, on the conservative side, their leadership changed in 2022, right? Yeah, I think so. It was 22 or 23, but I believe it was around then. That's when Paul Yver became leader of the conservative party,

Starting point is 01:33:42 which is, like, you know, closed ranks in like coalesced the past 10 to five years or so. And they've been they've been gaining a large or had been gaining, you know, a large degree of popularity the past two, three years, not necessarily because of who their party leader is, but because they are simply not the Liberal Party, at least that's kind of what it seemed like to me, because like, approval ratings for Polo Verde has never been like great. But the Conservative Party has still been gaining popularity, at least previous to the past few months. Yeah, I don't want to play, you know, give the far right any kind of kudos or points. But I think from an analytical standpoint, something that people should realize is that

Starting point is 01:34:20 within the last, I'd say, year and a half or so, Pierre was really, really effective at doing faux populism in a way that a lot of people were starting to get very worried about, and that he was starting to speak a lot about the working class, you know, the housing crisis in the country, and the fact that the liberals are out of touch elites who only care about enriching themselves. And, you know, obviously you'd have a lot of the right-wing

Starting point is 01:34:42 kind of nebulous terms like woke ideology being tied into that kind of stuff. But he was for a long time kind of starting to gain a lot of ground and traction as more of a moderate style conservative who was concerned with helping the working class, which is astonishing considering the man is a lifelong politician. Like that that is who he is. He was making fun of people like the leader of the social democrats here, Jagmeet Singh. He was making fun of him for just working for a pension and not even caring about the people or the working class. The man has never marched with the union. I'm talking about Pierre. He's never marched with the union. His voting track record is decidedly anti-worker. It's decidedly exacerbating wealth and equality. He's worked his entire life to make houses more expensive.

Starting point is 01:35:25 But marketing and branding really work, especially like, you know, there's compilation clips of him saying things that are JK Rowling tier in terms of both their nonsensicalness, like talking about how electricity is crafted by harnessing the power of the lightning bolts into the wire that the electrician holds up. Very cool. Oh yeah, very cool. Thor-like powers. I'm on board, but like, unfortunately that's just not how we usually generate power in this country.

Starting point is 01:35:53 Um, but like it works on some people. They like to see a man who fakes owning like different kinds of wood and tools. You know, like a Tucker Carlson ask, I've got a wood shop in my back. And it's like that. Well, no, I think this is the first time you've ever seen that lumber, sir. But as you know, again, some voters, they really started his rebranding in that respect actually worked pretty successful for the last year and a half against Trudeau.

Starting point is 01:36:18 Yeah, he had a pretty substantial makeover the past past few years to make himself like presentable in this way. Yeah, very like Sinesq, very Ben Shapiro goes to Home Depot and gets some wood. That's definitely pulling from that vein, although maybe a bit more successfully. And at least from my perspective, it feels like the degree to which Pierre kind of hitched himself to the Trump populist wagon the past few years, especially with with like sentiments like growing in like the Western provinces that kind of mirrors

Starting point is 01:36:47 some of the Trumpian rhetoric, that type of stuff was getting popularity. And now because he put, if not all his eggs, but some of his eggs in the Trump basket, this has like backfired in like popular opinion when it comes to his ability to succeed as like a politician and like gaining support because we've seen so much anti- polarization based on like the 51st state stuff based on the tariffs and And like Carney has been able to weaponize that pretty effectively against against Pierre

Starting point is 01:37:15 It's a loop like you like it initially like the way like popularity points shifted was like by like 20 points Which was like huge those have gotten closer But I think it's one of the biggest reversals or if not the biggest reversal in Canadian political history was was the dominating lead they had from having an almost an assured majority to now perhaps losing to a liberal majority, which again is unheard of. Yeah. One thing that people are also kind of missing is that he also really closely

Starting point is 01:37:42 started associating himself with Elon Musk prior to kind of the is that he also really closely started associating himself with Elon Musk prior to Elon Musk kind of being the de facto leader of the US or whatever you want to call him, the real president of the United States. But he's had a number of rallies and on the record praising Elon Musk prior to Elon Musk. This was pre-Elon Musk overt Nazi era, kind of more just like Nazi light era. Covert Nazi era. Yeah, exactly. But around that time, Pierre was asked, like, what do you think about being endorsed and praised by Elon Musk?

Starting point is 01:38:12 And you know, he started making jokes about how his kids want to go to Mars. So that's pretty cute. And started talking about how he wants Elon Musk to build more factories and plants in Canada. Well, that's all really coming back to hurt him now because the very idea of there being a stronger Tesla presence in the country is decidedly rejected by the populace. Like, you know, the the protests that are going on in the United States against Teslas are going on here as well. Maybe not as large-scale or perhaps as

Starting point is 01:38:38 fire-based, but a lot of them are occurring here. And so like that, I think is also really hurting them. So there's been this really funny, strange political dance that's kind of happened in the last couple months where everyone is trying to say Trump loves you more. It's like a circular firing squad. Like at one point, the conservatives were trying to market themselves to saying Trump was making fun of Pierre in this clip. So look, he hates Pierre more. And then it was like, oh, no, no, no, look, he's talking a lot of smack about Mark Carney. He hates Mark Carney more. So that has actually become a very strong dynamic

Starting point is 01:39:11 of the Canadian election, is who exactly does Trump like more? And that's not going to be good for you if it turns out you're the one. I guess I'd like to talk a little bit now at the end here about Mark Carney himself and kind of what this means for the Liberal Party. He was the governor of the Bank of Canada starting in 2008. Then he became governor of the Bank of England and managed them through the Brexit fiasco. Brexit was not his idea. He was not pro-Brexit, but he just happened to be holding the reins of the Bank of England

Starting point is 01:39:40 during that time period. Returned to Canada, has served as like an informal advisor to Trudeau, and now is the leader of the Liberal Party. He's a very, I don't know, he tries to like project this sense of like, he's like a like a reasonable man, which which, which, you know, in some ways is like he's like, he's like kind of boring. He works in banking, right? Like he's, he's not like overtly charismatic, but he doesn't have like the the like youthful, like bumbling presence of like Trudeau.

Starting point is 01:40:12 Like he just he seems he seems kind of basic. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, you're you're totally right. I mean, we're talking about a lifelong banker. I mean, he's even worked for Goldman Sachs. He has a, yes, a very long and started. Well, I mean, in some view, it depends on your worldview, right? If you were a person who thinks that the solution going forward, especially in the face of actual manifesting fascism, is more neoliberal policies, austerity and measures,

Starting point is 01:40:45 then you might be very, very excited to perhaps get your own, like honestly, Joe Biden style election here, where we are once again gonna be choosing center to center right economic policies that are going to undoubtedly exacerbate wealth inequality more. They are not gonna solve the housing crisis.

Starting point is 01:41:02 The housing crisis of Canada, while it is portrayed constantly as complex, really goes down to fundamentally there are a lot of houses, but there are also a lot of houses being built in luxury markets that most people can't afford. Speculation is not addressed. And so speculation usually gets blamed on foreign investors, which in turn kind of brings up the whole immigration fears, which are very successful. But with Carney, I mean, I don't see anything dramatic.

Starting point is 01:41:26 Not only did he axe the carbon tax when he was in power initially, and that was, again, I think, strategically to remove the power the conservatives had on that policy, he also is getting rid of the capital gains tax, which again, is just going to be funneling more money towards the ultra wealthy in Canada. So the problem for me is that if anything, I'm happy that Pierre, it looks like he might not win. I don't know what by the time people are listening to this, what the results are. But I also recognize that this does not solve these crises for simply putting band-aids on a pause before, you know, finally a Trump of our own gets elected. And then yes, people after the fact start

Starting point is 01:42:02 realizing, oh my God, he's doing a lot of the horrifying things that he promised he would do. He's actually trying to enact Project 2025. All these terrible things are happening. Well, I mean, if this was an election where it looked like Pierre was going to win, I would say he is going to follow through on all the aggressive measures and more that he's promising right now, which include, you know, suspending the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

Starting point is 01:42:21 to people that he deems should be worthy of receiving freedoms, specifically because like Donald Trump, he wants to begin silencing people for their speech in relation to protesting against Israel and their genocide of Palestinians, especially if you are an immigrant or someone on a student visa. And these policies, you can see, they're a disaster after the fact. And people, I think, wake up to them like Americans are right now when they realize Trump's actually doing it. But you know, make no mistake, it doesn't require too long of the increase in wealth and equality for people to look for an answer because they're not being listened to by the Libs or the liberals here.

Starting point is 01:42:57 No, it is interesting that how much this election has almost mirrored the American two party system with the bloc que vu quoi as as well as the NDP, like probably most likely, right? This is before the results, but probably going to be losing seats to both the liberals and the conservatives. And like I think like a big part of this election, I think is similarly looking back at the past 10 years is how much I think the NDP has frankly fumbled and probably needs to do a major overhaul to really regain trust in the voters. And yeah, it's going to be tough because I think for the progressives in Canada, it's kind of been convenient for the liberals to have a minority government

Starting point is 01:43:33 because they need to work with NDP. And they've gotten a lot accomplished. To be fair to Jagmeet Singh and for American listeners, the Social Democratic Party of Canada, they accomplished some great things working in a minority government setting, including a pharmacare program, including a federal feeding program for children, a school lunch program, you know, working on paid family sick leave and extending it. So they've done a lot of good in sort of enacting progressive policies, but it's the liberals who are also equally as good at taking credit for all the things that people have

Starting point is 01:44:02 come to really like, such as having dental care for the first time and having cheaper pharma care and stuff like that. Thanks to Lance again for talking with me about the Canadian election. It's time for one more ad break and we'll come back to discuss the future of the Canadian government. Okay, we are back. Let's talk a little bit more about Trump's undue influence in the 2025 Canadian election, because it is a little bit odd for a foreign leader to be exerting this much influence in the votes of, you know of a separate country. Now, this was an election that was previously about liberal stagnation and wanting change in economic policy. This was kind of leading the conservative popular support the past two, three years. And very suddenly,

Starting point is 01:45:01 this whole election changed and it became about who Canada trusted to oppose Trump. And who Canadians wanted to be like the face of Canada in this new global trade war and this fight against a hostile neighbor. And Trump did not help this. On election morning, Trump released a statement basically endorsing himself as the leader of Canada. Oh great. Saying, quote, good luck to the great people of Canada. Elect the man who has the strength and wisdom to cut your taxes in half.

Starting point is 01:45:37 Increase your military power for free to the highest level in the world. Have your car, steel, aluminum, lumber, energy, and all their businesses quadruple in size with zero tariffs or taxes. If Canada becomes the cherished 51st state of the United States of America, no more artificially drawn line from many years ago. Look how beautiful this landmass would be. Free access with no border, all positives with no negatives. It was meant to be. America can no longer subsidize Canada with hundreds of billions of dollars a year that we've been spending in the past. It makes no sense unless Canada is a state.

Starting point is 01:46:15 Man, Trump the border abolitionist. This is the rhetoric that really produced a liberal victory and Trump did kind of back off this stuff in the past few weeks and it's very funny to see him go like full throttle the morning of the election in case anyone was like on the fence about whether they really was worrying about like Trump this just it's like such a crazy Hail Mary and we can see this in some polling stats on Trump's inauguration day the Conservatives in Canada were leading 44.8% in the polls

Starting point is 01:46:49 compared to the Liberals' 21.9% and the NDP's 17.6%. But as Liberals searched for a new leader and as Trump took office, the Conservative lead slowly started to slip. The President began referring to Canada as the 51st state, called the Prime Minister quote unquote Governor, and threatened to impose huge tariffs to stop a non-existent fentanyl smuggling crisis through the Canadian-US border. By April, the conservative lead had fully flipped over to the Liberals, who rose to 44% in the polls, conservatives falling to 37% and the NDP around 8.5.

Starting point is 01:47:29 And these are pretty close to the final results. This number is very accurate for Liberal support. Conservatives got a little bit more than 36% of the vote and NDP got a little bit less than this 8.5. This is according to data from CBC and Abacus. This was very much a leader's election, meaning that one of the biggest factors driving votes was who people wanted the prime minister to be. And Mark Carney is much more popular despite being kind of an unknown figure, which kind of actually helps in popularity. Carney was so much more popular than Poliev. The past three months,

Starting point is 01:48:06 Karni has steadily gained in popularity, getting 46% approval, whereas Poliev has slowly declined in popularity. I talked about this a little bit with Lance, but the degree to which he's aligned himself with this anti-woke, far-right populism rhetoric really bit him in the ass these past few months. He would have done fine against Trudeau, certainly. He was really riding off that anti-incumbent wave. But he is not like a loved figure across Canadian politics, even among some conservatives. The two most important factors driving Canadians' vote, according to abacus, was reducing cost of living and dealing with Donald Trump.

Starting point is 01:48:47 Younger voters seemed to be more focused on cost of living and changing policy, around 57% of voters 18-29, while older voters, around 56% of boomers, were more concerned about stopping Trump. The very first topic in the Canadian Prime Minister debate was tariffs and US threats to Canadian sovereignty. This is seen as like a very real issue up there and like hatred against the US is genuinely growing. Like people are very upset. Canadians are very upset about what Trump and the US has been doing. It's being seen as like a genuine, like, like intense betrayal. The Buy Canada movement's been gaining a lot of support with people trying to only purchase

Starting point is 01:49:30 Canadian products. And this has resulted in a real cultural moment in Canada, united against the United States. It's genuinely remarkable. Like, the Canada and the US have always had pretty good relations for, well, not always, but they have. Well, ever since that one incident. Yeah, relations for it. Well, not always. Well ever since that one incident. Yeah, that one time. Yeah. That one time with the White House. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:51 Things have improved. And like, what's also remarkable is that this seems to be having an effect on Australia as well. And if you've seen that. But like, I think I saw an ad the other day that just said, Dutton wants to make Australia like America. Like straight up, you know, this is our Trump and he will align with Trump. Like, yeah, it's incredible. The degree which Trump doing this global trade war has catalyzed negative sentiments around

Starting point is 01:50:13 this like far right populism, global global wave that we've been seeing is really been a boon to neoliberal agenda. The the past few years, You'll see like I mean I mean obviously like I take voter interviews in like legacy media with a huge pinch of salt right because it's it's pretty easy to find someone who wants to say what you want them to say and often you know certainly some of the US voter interviews have just been ridiculous but like people saying oh I just want to go back to how it was like I want to go back to, you know, the things that we're used to. And obviously, Trump is training that for a lot of people and like in a very negative way. And so you and as Garris has said, like the politics of personality is becoming more important, like voting specifically for individuals who they think will have like the negotiating ability or just bravery or like, whatever it is to stand up to Trump, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:51:09 And like in Canada, I think it's less personality driven. Like actually Canadians are very against personality politics. Yeah, I guess. It's more like competency driven. And this is where Carney was really able to succeed is because he's not a compelling personality, but he is like a professional. And that is why he's not a compelling personality, but he is like a professional. And that is why he was elected. Like, Carney helped Canada weather the 2008 financial collapse better than almost any

Starting point is 01:51:29 other Western nation. He is genuinely good at his job of being like a neoliberal, like bank economy guy. And specifically with these tariffs, this is the guy that you want to handle this global trade crisis, because this is like what he has done his entire life. He's never been elected to office before. He is just an economy guy. And we saw this in like head-to-head matchups with Carney versus Polyarv, rating certain things like finding common ground to solve a dispute,

Starting point is 01:52:00 where Carney was 12 points ahead. Standing up to a bully, Carney's eight points ahead. Managing household expenses, Carney's 12 points ahead. Standing up to a bully, Carney's 8 points ahead. Managing household expenses, Carney's 6 points ahead. Sitting beside you on a long airplane flight, Carney's 6 points ahead. Captaining a ship through a rough storm, Carney 5 points ahead. That's what you need is a, you need a seafarer. Only 5 points ahead on seafaring. Hosting the best party, Carney, one point ahead. And we'll see.

Starting point is 01:52:27 This is reminiscent of that, like, was it like Tim the Plumber shit from like the Bush Palaean election? Like the people I would want to have a beer with? Well, the funny thing is, is the conservatives are still better in like those types of like physical things, like putting out a kitchen fire, Polyev is up two, and putting up a shelf, Polyev's up six. Those are the only two ones measured where the conservative candidate edged out the liberals, is putting out a kitchen fire and putting up a shelf.

Starting point is 01:52:58 But all other things like solving disputes, standing up to bullies, managing household expenses, Carney came out. I'm going to read a few lines from Carney's celebration acceptance speech here, and I'm just going to read them and not play clips because he blends English and French, and that's going to be annoying. No offense to our French speakers out there. Garrison. It's going to be annoying to play for a podcast. It's not going to...

Starting point is 01:53:24 It's going to sort of to play for a podcast. It's not going to... It's going to sort of give a quack crowd. Quote, America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country. These are not idle threats. President Trump is trying to break us so America can own us. That will never happen. We are once again at one of those hinge moments of history. Our old relationship with the United States, a relationship based on steadily increasing integration, is over.

Starting point is 01:53:48 The system of open global trade anchored by the United States, a system that Canada has relied on since the Second World War, a system that, while not perfect, has helped deliver prosperity for a country for decades, is over. But it is also our new reality. We are over the shock of the American

Starting point is 01:54:05 betrayal, but we should never forget the lessons. We have to look out for ourselves and above all we have to take care of each other. When I sit down with President Trump, it will be to discuss the future economic and security relationship between two sovereign nations, and it will be with our full knowledge that we have many many other options than the United States to build prosperity for all Canadians. We will strengthen our relations with reliable partners in Europe, Asia, and elsewhere. And if the United States no longer wants to be in the forefront of the global economy, Canada will." Unquote. And yeah, this is the type of rhetoric that's

Starting point is 01:54:39 going to be, I think, successful in Canada right now and probably in the next, like, few decades is Canada is going to try to take the spot that America used to hold as the center of global power. Especially with climate change, with crops slowly needing to be moved north. I think as global warming progresses, Canada is in a spot to be a new emerging world power. And with the degree to which America is just kind of giving up that role under Trump, someone like Carney is very interested in gaining that degree of superiority. Now, I'm going to read a few comments from our listeners, who I asked to send over their thoughts on the Canadian election.

Starting point is 01:55:26 And yes, this is a limited sample size. It's based on the politics of people who listen to this show. But I still think there's some interesting points here outlining what's happened in this election. Quote, Mark Carney might not be far enough left for my tastes, but he immediately made gas cheaper, a tangible improvement for my broke ass, and with the way he's been polling, I'm settling on voting for him to keep the conservatives out with their stated anti-woke agenda. Not like I have much choice.

Starting point is 01:55:56 I would have loved to be picky about my vote, but I don't feel confident in the NDP or the Greens to come out on top of the cons. Another person said, quote, I can't believe the country seems to be rallying around a neoliberal central banker in the face of American fascism, but our resentment to the US seems to kind of override all other political considerations. So much of the way this election is panning out is a display of our culture's profound inability to take necessary risks. We're running scared to the serious administrator man. In the blind hope, things will be safe and normal again.

Starting point is 01:56:29 When he fails, we'll take a late and stupid risk again." Unquote. And this is something I've seen other people express, is like, with this kind of Obama-esque, serious man in charge, this like return of neoliberalism, will this just set the stage for like the material conditions for someone like Trump to emerge in the next 10 years?

Starting point is 01:56:48 This is a fear that I've seen people express. I don't think it is an inevitability because this is not America in 2012 or 2016. This is Canada in 2025. The world is different, but I can understand this fear. Lastly, I'll read from one other commenter from Blue Sky, quote, I understand the drive to keep the Conservative Party out of office, but I'm also terrified of what the Liberal Party will do to this country if they can keep campaigning on that very basis in perpetuity.

Starting point is 01:57:18 It's good that we will probably avoid the worst. It's terrible that progress is on hold until the Conservative Party is no longer a contender, which could take decades. I also do not expect the Liberal Party to meaningfully change the conditions that are pushing voters towards reactionary politics to begin with." So kind of a similar sentiment there. I think the role for progressives in Canada right now is either to rebuild the NDP or infiltrate the liberals, probably rebuilding NDP in most cases, because they are going to have to have new leadership and seriously reevaluate their strategies going forward. James, any notes here, I guess? Yeah, I think, like, I guess kind of to echo what a lot of those people said, like, in

Starting point is 01:58:01 the US, we had Biden for four years, right, essentially, because he was elected on not being Trump. And he was able to get away, well, he thought he could get away with more than he actually was able to get away with, as it turns out, electorally. But like, we were admonished to vote for the person who wasn't Trump, right. And what we got is open air detention for migrants, what we got is inflation, what we got is a genocide in Gaza, right? And this fear that a lot of other nations in the global north, right, like these neoliberal economies are feeling, is going to lead to lots of that, like, yes, we need a serious man, like we need a statesman to stand up to Trump, and that's going to reinforce a lot of that neoliberal orthodoxy, and that's going to make it very hard to make any meaningful progress to electoral politics in those countries

Starting point is 01:58:50 for the next few years, which sucks. I think this is why some people are excited about the minority government, although it is less stable. Yeah, they could be swayed by some more of the progressive agendas from the NDP because they'll need NDP or block cooperation to run the government. Yeah, they can't do what Biden did, which like, I mean. Also, like, Carney isn't Biden, like, and the Canadian Liberal Party is not necessarily the like American Democratic Party. Like, they are different.

Starting point is 01:59:17 His stuff on Gaza is different. Like the Canadian Liberals have restricted arms, arms trades and arms deals to Israel the past year. Carney has not thrown trans people under the bus the same way some Democrats have the past year. Like these are different people. I think Canada is a different country than the United States. For now, Garrison. And I think what we can see here is that this Canadian election, although it was close, it still was a rejection of Trump style politics. Most Canadians do not want Canada to go the way of America.

Starting point is 01:59:51 There's been a subset of Canadians, especially in Alberta and Saskatchewan, who have been trying to push for this mega style, Canada first rhetoric. And this was denied. I think you were seeing more support for conservatives under Doug Ford with this more like moderate conservatism. I think that's something to like watch out for more but like this this Trump style of politics was was rejected across the country and and and Carney was able to figure out a way to make people trust him to be a genuine like combatant

Starting point is 02:00:24 against against Trump and and usher in a new golden age of neoliberal trade in the face of Trump's chaotic and anti-market sentiments. Hopefully it does put an end to this tendency among liberals, especially in the US but also in the UK, to feel that they need to engage on right-wing culture war talking points and, I guess, quote unquote, give some ground. We've seen that in the UK with really transphobic shit coming out of the Labour Party. I would hope that people can see where this leads to and that they're not going to vote for liberal politicians who are going to throw trans people under the bus. And that will be like a deciding factor in their support. But

Starting point is 02:01:10 I guess that's just my hope right now. Yeah. Well, and frankly, you know, a better liberal party or a liberal NDP coalition would be willing to engage with the idea of like taking trans refugees from these extremely hostile countries. Asylees, yeah. Which is something they've not publicly talked about. But as things get worse in the States, we will see. So yeah, that is what I have to say as a Canadian who lives in the United States.

Starting point is 02:01:39 My thoughts on the Canadian election, you know, it could have been worse. It is odd to see Canada almost accidentally replicate America's two-party system. So even if this was a rejection of Trump's style politics, this climate of fear did result in replicating America's two-party system, which is kind of interesting. The amount of which like the third parties lost support with support going just towards conservatives and liberals. That is one of the big stories of this election.

Starting point is 02:02:09 The NDP blowout, one of the big stories. And Poliev losing his seat, I think, is at least a nice cherry on top for this election. And the dream season is now complete. The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player

Starting point is 02:02:54 when you hear that you're being benched. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.

Starting point is 02:03:14 I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot.

Starting point is 02:03:39 Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend, and I found his pizzeria in our apartment. I collect my roommates' toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house.

Starting point is 02:03:57 So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey. We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family.

Starting point is 02:04:18 They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptUSkids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUSKids,

Starting point is 02:04:38 the US Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glodd. And this is season two of the World on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back. In a big way. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glodd. And this is season two of the World Drugs Podcast. Sir, we are back. In a big way. In a very big way.

Starting point is 02:04:49 Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug ban.

Starting point is 02:05:12 Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. We got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter. Liz Karamouche. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things.

Starting point is 02:05:25 Stories matter and it brings a face to them. It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And to hear episodes one week early

Starting point is 02:05:40 and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcast. Whoa, welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about, you know, it happening here, which is what we all, you know, we know what's happening. Yeah. Well, and the it being rebellion and the here being a galaxy far, far away. And the now being long, long ago for this episode.

Starting point is 02:06:20 Yeah, we are, these are our May Day episodes and nothing could make more sense on May Day than talking about Andor, the new season of the show Andor. If you're not familiar with Andor, it is a Star Wars show and if you don't like Star Wars or you just don't like the Disney Star Wars, if you've not enjoyed a Star Wars since you were six, this is not that kind of thing. This is a treatise on how revolutions do, can, and should work written by people who have a deep bed of knowledge, including a degree of on the ground knowledge of what some of this looks like.

Starting point is 02:06:57 And it is an immensely important piece of media to be getting out right now. And we'll start by saying Disney, evil, bad corporation, I'm not saying pay them for Disney Plus, torrents exist. Yeah, raise the black flag. Raise the black flag once again. I don't care how you get this and you know what, I'll say this, I suspect the people making Andor don't really care how you get this. This has been the most financially successful show in generations.

Starting point is 02:07:26 Fuck it. Get it. Like, don't pay Disney money if you don't want to. I have no issue with that. I don't know whose login I'm using and I haven't for years. Garrison can vouch for that. Just watch it. Be like Cassie and Andor and liberate Andor season two from Disney

Starting point is 02:07:45 and watch it however you feel comfortable doing so. Yeah. Yeah, use your F movies, use your whatever, yeah. This is a podcast about the current season of Andor, which is coming out in three episode blocks every Tuesday. The second three episodes, so we're now up to six episodes, came out yesterday as we record this Tuesday of this week and there's two more weeks of and or coming.

Starting point is 02:08:11 So this episode we're going to be talking about episodes one through three, we should probably start with a little. If you haven't watched it, go watch it. Just watch season one and then you know you can watch season two and listen along with us. If you're a crazy person who's not going to do that, we'll summarize season one for you, which is that there's this guy who grew up on a planet that was destroyed by the Empire. He essentially lived as a hunter gatherer until the war came to him and he was forced

Starting point is 02:08:43 out of his home and grows up very angry, is taken in by some people who are kind of like petty criminals and petty, almost petty rebels, you know, but not in the rebel alliance sense, just in that, well, we're going to commit some crimes around the edges and try to get by. And the show is about this guy getting inducted into a revolutionary organization run by a man named Luther that is very, that is simultaneously very centralized around him and also very decentralized and that it's primarily him arming and getting information and attempting to direct cells that are themselves autonomous and often in conflict with each other, which is very realistic

Starting point is 02:09:22 to how things like this start on a historical level. Everything that's happening in Andor is based in real history. Tony Gilroy, who is the showrunner, has stated that the kind of bank robbing years of Joseph Stalin were one influence behind this. But there are a lot you can see. And in fact, there's a little bit of Portland at the end of season one. There's a number of things that have influenced this show a lot of moments in history The IRA some of the IRA like post al Qaeda like prison. Yes resistance rebellion For how terrorist cells like form underneath and also very explicitly He talks about this in an interview like the revolutions podcast by Mike Duncan It's on how on how this one yes was an influence on this. Yes. So that's all to set this up. We're now

Starting point is 02:10:09 going to talk about what happens in in episodes one two and three of season two. You want to summarize some gear? Yeah let's start with the first episode. So undercover rebel agent Cassie Nand, steals an experimental Thai Avenger, crashes it on a jungle planet, and then finds himself in a sectarian split between this other rebel cell who just had a disastrous operation. Their leader got killed, so no one's really sure who should be running things. They capture Kassian because they think he's an Imperial pilot, and he tries to negotiate with them as their infighting continues.

Starting point is 02:10:46 Meanwhile, Imperial intelligence agents converge to develop a plan on how to squash potential resistance on the planet Gorman, as they plan to extract calcite minerals from the planet's core, potentially endangering the stability of the planet. To build the Death Star, by the way. Yes, to build the Death Star. Yeah, so what's happening is these minerals are necessary to collect the system that makes the Death Star's big planet-destroying gun work. But at this point, basically no one knows that in the Imperial intelligence.

Starting point is 02:11:20 Yeah. And they're being told that it's part of like an energy independence project. Mon Mothma, the senator from Chandrila, who eventually becomes a rebel leader in the Star Wars movies, is helping to plan the Treadcath wedding for her daughter against Mon Mothma's own wishes. And she runs into some difficulties with someone who helped her clean up some of her financial blemishes to help finance the rebellion. So this is most of what happens in this first episode. We have some of Andor's previous comrades from Planet Ferex are on this farming planet

Starting point is 02:11:56 and they're nervous about potential inspection. So I guess specifically, do we have anything we want to talk about on this first episode? Yes. I want to talk about the scene where they talk about clearing out Gorman. Because when they talk about mining it for this mineral that's necessary to make the Death Star, they're talking about basically doing deep fracking at the core of the planet that is going to make it uninhabitable, right? Like They're basically tearing out the core of this world that produces high quality textiles. They're famous, kind of a luxury goods exporter. That's really all they make. There's these spiders there that make a nice kind of silk.

Starting point is 02:12:37 That's what the planet does. And it's got this population of people who are used to being given a lot of autonomy because they make this luxury product that all of the rich people like, right? So that the folks running the Republic and in the early years when there was still more, the Empire was still more on the Republican side, still people didn't want to fuck with them too much because they make a luxury good, right? There was a massacre there kind of early on in the Empire when Tarkin landed a cruiser on a bunch of protesters killing them.

Starting point is 02:13:08 But other than that, it's been pretty quiet for a while. There is like a small and not super competent or armed rebel cell starting up on the planet. And they have this big meeting the Empire does where everybody gathers at a castle with the guy who's in charge of building the Death Star to talk about how to clear off this planet. The meeting itself in this part of the episode is based off of the Vonse Conference, which was a conference held in 1942 by Reinhard Heydrich and kind of managed by Adolf Eichmann to plan the Holocaust. This is where they actually sat down and talked about how are we going to build death camps,

Starting point is 02:13:44 how are the death camps going to operate? How will we evacuate people to the death camps? All of that, right? There was a meeting, a bunch of guys showed up. There are minutes of the meeting. Tony has stated, if you've watched, there's a great TV movie. It's like 20 years old at this point called Conspiracy. It stars Kenneth Branagh as Reinhard Heydrich, who was the architect, who was like the guy

Starting point is 02:14:04 running the Holocaust initially. It stars Stanley Tucci as Adolf Eichmann, an incredible Eichmann, by the way. And this scene is deeply influenced by that movie, right? There was another German movie also that like the movie with Branagh was based off of, but Tony Gilroy has said that that movie was an influence and that this is based on the Vonsay conference. And there's a couple of lines that are almost word for word. One of the big differences is there's a point at which

Starting point is 02:14:26 they bring in a couple of PR agents who are outside of the empire that's like an outside PR corporation. The propaganda arm. Yeah, well, I think they're an outside contractor who does marketing normally and is doing propaganda, if I'm remembering right. I think they're part of the Ministry of Enlightenment

Starting point is 02:14:41 is what they call it. Yeah, yeah. Um. Incredible name. They have they have some of the best bits from this meeting. Their job is to put out propaganda that makes the Gormans look arrogant and unloyal and bad to everyone else so that when they're massacred, no one will care. Quote, hasn't there always been something a little arrogant about the Gorn?

Starting point is 02:15:02 Yes, it's very good. Yeah, they talk about how they create false news stories and influence public opinion to be weaponized in favor of the Imperial project. The Ministry of Enlightenment stuff is very good. The other line I really like is from Dedra, one of the main characters from the previous season, who is this female ISB agent.

Starting point is 02:15:24 And she's sort of being made the Eichmann of the Gorman project. And like she talks with a Krennic, Ben Mendelsohn's character, like about how propaganda really only gets to you so far. And instead, what they will need to need to work on is actually like controlling the Gorman resistance from the inside. Like you need to count on rebels to do like the wrong thing at the right time. So about like, like, like Astro turfing, some kind of insurgency that can actually in the end service the empire's interests.

Starting point is 02:15:56 And like this is what she's talking about for her project being is actually like helping to influence the way that the resistance operates on on the planet instead of just just focusing on like public opinion and propaganda and like military might. Yeah. What I really appreciate about this scene is the degree to which it shows number one how information is siloed in a situation like this, how how people are on a neat like this room is informed at the start, whoever your boss is, if they're not in the room,

Starting point is 02:16:28 they don't know about this. And you don't tell them. Like we do not want- This is the tightest of closed circles. We are doing a genocide and we're not talking about it to other people. They report directly to the emperor, no other people beneath the emperor knows what's happening. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:16:45 And even the Emperor doesn't really know all of the details at this point. Yeah. And this is like, the people are cutting out, like they're cutting out the Director of Imperial of the ISP. They're cutting out the Director of Imperial Intelligence, cutting off like, Grand Moff Tarkin. They're cutting out the most important people in Star Wars, I have no idea. It's not even clear to me that Vader, I mean, Vader probably knows, but there's no fucking mention of him at all either. Yeah, he can read minds, so I assume he's been able to like glean some things but Yes, he's not a part of this

Starting point is 02:17:13 Because he's not a Death Star guy. Yeah, and again, this isn't like a massive population. So they're viewing this primarily as like a PR Problem, so both you need to get out messaging that these people are arrogant and bad so that nobody supports them when we start killing them. And we need a terror cell that can be trusted to carry out attacks against the empire that will justify what we need to do. So that's the point of this meeting. It's very well shot. It's very well done.

Starting point is 02:17:41 There's a lot of understanding of like just history in it that I appreciated as a Holocaust nerd. That's a bad way to frame it. But yeah, that is a bad way to frame it Yeah, nope. Nope. Nope. Anyway, nope If you've watched these episodes and you loved them and you found that scene chilling go watch conspiracy with Kenneth Branagh and Stanley Tucci The tooch the tooch the tooch playing Eichmann garrison Good. Let's go on a break and then come back to talk about episode two. Yeah We're back. Did you guys know Stanley Tucci, super pro Palestine?

Starting point is 02:18:29 That's cool. Oh, nice. With an actor like that that I've really enjoyed, I always am like white knuckling it when I decide to Google that. And I was pleasantly surprised with the tuch. All right, that's what I got here. Let's do episode two.

Starting point is 02:18:43 The Empire arrives on this farming planet to complete inspections on Coruscant. Our little slimy weasel, Seril Karn, keeps rising through the Imperial ladder at the Bureau of Standards. Mon Mothma's financial schemes to help secretly fund the rebellion start coming undone as one of her backers or like... The guy who's moving the money around for her Yeah, he's helping her wash her money. Yeah, one of her collaborators take home starts to kind of back out or ask for Ask for some assistance and is busy is getting erratic in his behavior as he's going through a divorce

Starting point is 02:19:23 And is is making kind of vague threats about, well, maybe I'll talk to someone about what I know, right? Yeah. If I don't get something out of this relationship, I might be forced to do something else to ensure like my safety and financial security. Meanwhile, Cassian is still on this jungle planet held captive by these sectarian leftists who start firing at each other and Totally totally break down literal circular firing squad. It's beautiful They go full they go full red army

Starting point is 02:19:57 Japanese Red Army, thank you very much Japanese Red Army and Cassian barely barely escapes over the course of this like multi-day Like a conflict with the with the remnants of this rebellion cell. Let's talk a little bit about this leftist infighting plot point. Yeah, this is something I've never actually really seen depicted in any kind of like mainstream media thing, which is something that happens in real movements, which is that when movements suffer serious setbacks or when, you know, and we see this more commonly in real life when sort of like when movements suffer serious setbacks or when, you know, and we see this more commonly in real life when sort of like, you know, the tide of a movement falls and everything starts falling apart. And these are people who just got absolutely obliterated in a battle, their leader's dead, a bunch of their comrades died. One of the things that happens in this is that this is when social movements evolve into infighting. You know,

Starting point is 02:20:42 and this is what was happening inside of like the American life, roughly from 2021 to 2024, was you got this giant, really vicious cycle of infighting because this is what happens when there's no longer a threat to hold everyone together. And people have this tendency to, because they've just lost, right? Everyone's trying to process the emotions of their defeat, of like the really serious psychological damage that they've suffered, like in these battles,

Starting point is 02:21:08 people lash out at each other because it's easier than trying to fight an enemy that has just defeated you. And, you know, there's a complicating factor in this, which is that like, you know, these are also the periods when, like, rapists tend to get ran out, right? And when, like, abusers in the scene tend to get ran out. on the other hand, yeah, it turns into these really really nasty sort of sometimes just sectarian Sometimes they're just sort of like, you know that I never liked this guy people are getting in trouble for being bad I'm gonna just accuse this guy of some shit personality conflict stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, and this is something that happens like every time there's a cycle I mean, I I remember this God like I mean you see the shit and see that like from like like 2013 2014 There was like a huge cycle of this

Starting point is 02:21:50 We were kind of cycles of this in like 2019 when things were kind of falling apart by ISIS. This is just like something that's a reality of social movements that you don't ever Really see depicted and the everything I think is fascinating about it is because Andor is the person who's watching it, right? Andor has no idea what the fuck is going on with the internal dynamics of this group. No, no My pay is famous. Yeah He knows who like the leader is because Lutheran's team has been like supplying them with weapons Yeah, but they don't know about like the internal structures of those groups for like opsec reasons

Starting point is 02:22:23 No, and the leader's dead. Like, the leader got killed in this ambush, right? You hear about her, she's named in the first season, Maipay, she's one of when, when Forrest Whitaker in season one gives that very famous rant where he's talking about all, because he's the anarchist militant leader, and he's talking about all the different groups.

Starting point is 02:22:40 Separatists, human cultists! Human cultists, galaxy frontists! They're lost, all of them. Only I have clarity of purpose. He names my pay along with the other different. So she's clearly a fairly well-known, I think she's a republic restorationist kind of person. So basically a social Democrat militant leader

Starting point is 02:23:00 and her group's just gotten fucked and she is dead. So he knows of them, but he doesn't know them. Yeah and because of that you get two things at the same time that I think are both really important. One is that you get to see what this kind of like infighting looks like right? Like actually depicting television you get to see what happens when movements fail and when people start to infight and two you get to see what it looks like from the outside from androids perspective Where she's looking at these people he's like what the fuck is wrong with you people all of you guys are clowns Yeah, these are fucking children like I'm doing a serious job

Starting point is 02:23:32 Yeah, and this is also a thing that you get this is a real movement dynamic where it's like You know you're watching people who after 2020 or something You know you've been through your first movement, and you're in your first movement cycle collapse, right? Yeah, you've been doing this and I like you know if you're doing this for like a fucking decade and you're watching all these People do this shit again, and it's just like oh God fucking damn it like the kids are like you know they haven't been through this before It's really traumatic, and they're doing all this like completely incomprehensible bullshit Which is also like it to own the outside if you look into this and someone is not part of one of these scenes

Starting point is 02:24:01 And you're seeing all this drama. It's just like what the fuck is wrong with you people like why are you doing this and? The fact that you're getting all of this like you know fucking Disney show is Fascinating it's it's it's why I mean and it shows the depth of knowledge and the yeah the the sheer amount of Understanding that the people writing this have of how movements go again of understanding that the people writing this have of how movements go. Again, it's granular and it's to a degree, like based in some real experiences that some people on this team have had. Like, you know, you don't understand stuff like this otherwise. And as this group is like interrogating Cassian, trying to figure out who he is,

Starting point is 02:24:39 like they keep trying to dig into like what rebel group Cassian is like a part of and like who he's working with. And he's like refusing to give them this information because that's good security culture. And they're like, but you know who we work with. And he's like, yeah, you shouldn't have told me that. You shouldn't have said that. That was bad. Very, very good stuff. And it's, oh, God, it starts, you know, we didn't say this with episode one.

Starting point is 02:25:01 Episode one starts with another beautiful Cassian speech. Because he's infiltrating as a Thai fighter pilot, We didn't say this with episode one. Episode one starts with another beautiful Cassian speech because he's infiltrating as a Thai fighter pilot, this base where he's stealing an experimental craft. And there's a young woman there who's like a technician who has his in, right? And who has clearly just made her break with the empire. And she like meets him briefly.

Starting point is 02:25:20 She's like, sorry, I know I'm not supposed to look at you. I'm not supposed to talk to you. And he like grabs her and he's like, no, this is what it's all about. Is this moment of connection between us where we, we both, after all of like this, being frightened and alone in the dark, we're together and we know that we're doing something. This is what every this is. This is everything.

Starting point is 02:25:38 This is the moment you find yourself. Yeah, you become yourself. And this is another thing that that was the moment in this season where I was like, oh, okay So the people are it's still the same people It's like these are people who are just of the left in a way that you don't really ever see even with like old Communists who are writing stuff. It's like I have given this speech to people Yeah, like dozens and dozens of times like this is a thing that if you do this work Like you have literally given this speech to a new person about like yeah

Starting point is 02:26:05 Yeah, like this is the reason why and like it's just fucking I'm just like that mind is blown that this shit It's just like appearing in mass media where people who aren't from these movements are just like Encountering this and the reason why again when I say and or is like historically profitable After the first season, every year afterwards for a couple of years, the number of people watching it increased, by which I mean, each year after it came out, more people watched it than had watched it

Starting point is 02:26:34 in the year it came out. And that doesn't happen to TV. It simply is not how television works, which is why Disney was like, here is a quarter of a billion dollars. Make Andor season two. And this is the first time Star Wars has like visually looked good in like a decade. Yeah. Oh my God. And it looks incredible. It looks gorgeous.

Starting point is 02:26:56 It's gorgeous. There's so many super long like tracking shots this season where they're going through like massive sets with all like like singular like one takes and like you know all the previous Star Wars shows are filmed on these like digital sound stages with like you know LED screen backgrounds but like you cannot achieve this level of like in real life like fidelity on like a digital background screen like these are huge sets like specifically the chandrilla set is like massive as you walk around like Mod Mothma's like Senate estate or whatever for this for this Treadcath wedding that we'll

Starting point is 02:27:29 talk more about in the next episode. Yeah. Just like really, really like excellent craftsmanship going into this. Yeah, just beautiful. Okay. Speaking of beautiful set design. Alright, we're back. Let's talk about the finale of this little three episode arc. Cassian's trying to contact Luthen and learns that his friends on the farming planet are

Starting point is 02:28:02 actually being subject to some kind of Imperial inspection. He's advised to not go there, but of course he does anyway to check on his friends as is Star Wars tradition a la Luke Skywalker in Episode 5. The people on this planet are trying to evade this inspection by forging emergency work orders, but their scheme falls apart. They might have been ratted out by one of the top guys running this silo and Imperial officers arrest and interrogate people for not having proper work visas. And the people on this planet are Cassian's friends

Starting point is 02:28:37 from season one who he lived with, like the guy who was effectively his big brother. Brasso. Yeah, Brasso. The guy who hits the cop with the brick in the finale of season one You're goddamn right He bricks a cop and then Bix who is his girlfriend? Partner type person kind of off and on and then because of her connections to him gets horribly tortured in season one

Starting point is 02:28:56 Yeah And as well as young terrorist Willem who throws a pipe bomb into a crowd of stormtroopers In the finale of season one. So these three are in hiding on this farm planet and are now in trouble because these Imperial inspections and immigration officers are on their tail. On Shrandrilla, Mon Mothma talks to Luthen, who's there for work because he's like an artifact, like a dealer. But she tells Luthen that the guy that they were working with to help Mon Mothma secretly fund the rebellion

Starting point is 02:29:30 is showing some erratic behavior and may need to be, like, you know, bribed to keep quiet. Luthen, being smart and serious, knows that, no, no, no, no, no, You cannot simply bribe this man into silence. This man needs to get taken out right now. You need to close this. Look, he brought in the cops like he brought in the fucking cops like he brought.

Starting point is 02:29:55 He threatened them. He has to die. That's the way these. Retinol to snitch. He needs this guy needs to get dealt with immediately. The other plot point that I don't think we'll have much to talk about but is very excellent. Our slimy weasel Cyril Karn and his new abusive girlfriend Dejra have Cyril's wonderful mother over for dinner in just a fantastically uncomfortable scene in less happy occurrences as the Imperial officers investigate and search this farming planet.

Starting point is 02:30:29 One of them tries to sexually assault Bix inside their little RV home. Bix kills him and eventually Andor arrives with a Thai Avenger, takes out this Imperial battalion and Bix and Andor and the kid are able to escape, and Brasso unfortunately dies in a high-speed speeder chase. And he dies, but it's like a believable move someone would make under fire. Yeah. But like, man, there's tall fucking grass,

Starting point is 02:31:00 just drop, go to the ground. Don't get on a motorbike while you're above the fucking crops. Like get on the ground, hide, hide. It's a stressful environment. It's a realistic fuck up, right? It sucks, but it's realistic. People do stuff like that all the time in gunfights. Yes. So it's one of those where I was like, no, but also like,

Starting point is 02:31:19 yeah, that's what happens. Yeah. One of the things that isn't really being talked about with this show, but I think is actually is very important, is that it is absolutely unflinching in its depiction of patriarchy. Like, I mean, there's, you know, there's this sort of obvious horrifying scene of like, this ice guy, I mean, increasingly over the course of this thing, like, just going from like, hey, if you like date me, you can not get deported because we have to maintain the...

Starting point is 02:31:49 I know you're illegal. And that's fine, we know we need a bunch of you. We're not here to arrest everyone, right? Because we need the crops from this planet. But I am going to arrest some people and I can make sure it's not you if you go on a quote unquote date with me. Yeah, and then, you know, and's just an escalation there is just straight-up like sexual assault right and this is really really I mean obviously it's jarring because it's you know

Starting point is 02:32:12 Like it's an on-screen script depiction of an attempted sexual assault and then she like does a fight and she kills him right? But this was also very very jarring to a lot of people because people are very and this is a Star Wars thing, too They are very used to seeing fascism because people are very, and this is a Star Wars thing too, they are very used to seeing fascism depicted through its own self-perception, right? Yeah. People are very, very used to seeing fascism as something that is strong, that is ordered, that is disciplined, that is dangerous, and the problem is, the reality of fascism is that like, a lot of it is just a bunch of dipshit rapists who are like pretending to be those guys. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:32:43 And, you know, and this is one of the things Andor has always been very, very good at is, you saw this last season, right, with Wdedra, who is, her thing is that she is, you know, the very common American archetype of the cop who breaks all the rules to get the job done. And then, you know, and then like that's how she first is first introduced. And then you see what that actually looks like in public, which is, you know, she is just straight up torturing Bix with like the screams of an entire the death scream of an entire species and that's in season one yeah yes that's in season one and and what's

Starting point is 02:33:14 powerful about this is something Andor also does in the Prison Break episodes he's like this this fascist self-perception right of the sort of strong-order discipline unified thing that is just propaganda they are not actually like that behind the scenes, right? it's just these fucking Incredibly violent like petty losers doing this fucking shit And then you know I mean everything about about the sort of patriarchy side is that you see this on the other side with with one Mothma's like You know her sort of like money cleaner who's who's like her old friend

Starting point is 02:33:42 Take home it like like like literally is demanding that like Ma Mothma have sex with him in order for him to keep doing this money washing shit. And this is also something you see in movements all the time, which is like guys with resources using their access to resources to force themselves on women like in the movement. And this and you know, and there's like a third dynamic here with Tate Coleman, which is like another thing you see all the time in movements is guy going through a divorce who? goes completely off the fucking rails and starts doing shit that Endangers everyone and you know starts doing sort of like weird predatory shit

Starting point is 02:34:16 And I think I don't know that there just hasn't been much analysis of like yeah, this is these are all Ways things that like if you have been in movements You have experienced patriarchy and all of these ways you have experienced cops doing shit to you You have experienced stuff from inside the movie big part of how The major greens organizations that were dismantling the green scare were taken down was through members of these different groups who had been doing Direct action who were misogynists, right? That is always an easy way to break into and shatter a movement,

Starting point is 02:34:49 is find the guy who's got that going on about him and turn him. Yeah, and you have that on one hand, and on the other hand, with the cops, this is like a very, very common... Cops just sexually assaulting people for fun, it's like a thing that they do all the fucking time, and same thing with ICE, because this is obviously like... I don it's right like this. This is just literally one-to-one They're doing ice raids and Star Wars. Yeah, and the heroes are the people who like And or coming back with a tie fighter blowing them up, right? Like, you know

Starting point is 02:35:17 Yeah, also I do want to someone let you know I do want to point out that like this show also quietly has had like the most realistic lesbian relationship in all of Star Wars This season it's like oh someone on this crew is a lesbian because they have depicted my culture perfectly which is I The you know okay, so like the the rich girl lesbian and the like broke non-white Like guerrilla lesbian who came from nothing his family was killed by the Empire get together as an intense item dream in operation and Then the moment the operation is over their broke girl was like fuck This was a bad idea and now they're they keep running into each other and movement things that are like They're sort of avoiding each other and one of them is still the perfect depiction of lesbian culture incredible no notes

Starting point is 02:36:03 Love the lesbian rebels. I'm happy for them. Oh, incredible. Yeah, it's beautiful stuff. The quality of the writing, like everyone was worried who loved Andor season one. Like, oh fuck, how could they possibly compare with season one?

Starting point is 02:36:22 And it's just getting better. It's just Again you crazy bastards you did it again The thing I want to close on was with this wedding Which is there's what are really fascinating things about it one is that okay? So on the very non subtle level like they are cutting back and forth between everyone dancing to this sort of upbeat techno thing. They're cutting back and forth between Mon Mothma dancing at this wedding and the ICE raid that's happening. Which is like, you know, this is the level of political subtlety that you need to be working on with the American people. You have to just be like, I'm hammering you over the head with the point, which is like all of you motherfuckers are going to brunch and like yeah, the ice raids are happening. Well, that is an aspect. I think it also proves there you can operate in that zone because

Starting point is 02:37:10 Mothma is still a very important figure. She is not just a useless lib, right? She's critical. And you have someone like, like Luzon who can put on nice clothes and can do this persona and extract intel at this party. In one of the previous episodes, he's talking with this guy who introduces his son who is in the Imperial Navy, and he was talking about a recent operation on a planet, and Lutheran was like, oh, really? Tell me more. And it's like, you can still extract information at these places where power is flaunted and exchanged. Yes, they are still bad, but if you are like an aspiring rebel, you can use these places to your advantage.

Starting point is 02:37:49 But no, there absolutely still is this juxtaposition of yeah, this like, you know, riotous party with like this horrific ice raid. And yeah, the material conditions in these people's lives is very different. Even if Mon Mothma's doing good stuff, still as like an imperial senator, her everyday life is very different to someone who is having to hide from like ice agents. Now, the other thing though that is going on in this scene, it's not purely these are the wealthy partying as these nightmare raids go down. The other thing

Starting point is 02:38:20 that's going on is Mon Mothma is emotionally accepting this guy who was my lover for a long time and who is a dear friend of mine is going to be killed. And I have accepted the necessity and the only thing for me to do right now is to get so drunk that I can't feel it. Yep. Yep. Yeah, is to do drugs, drink and like dance. That's how you exist under like the horrific conditions that the Empire forces you to live under. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 02:38:48 And there's this fascinating thing. I noticed this especially watching back season one. If you look at, if you go back and watch the scenes and you look at the way it's lit, you look at the way that there's just the stark like white light coming through the windows. This is not how it's lit in season one, right? This is a very deliberate choice.

Starting point is 02:39:03 Almost everyone else who does this scene would do this sort of like warm, rich, like golden lighting. Cause that's like, that's how you do these sort of like fancy wedding things. And this, the way that he is lit is the same way that they're lighting all of the, like, like the stark white Imperial corridors. And there's this very, you know, it's like, like it's working on like all of these sort of like levels of like like Visual metaphor of of all of this just like oh, yeah This is also imperial space right and everyone here is operating either like regardless of what side they're on they're operating like in imperial terrain in this sort of like thing as as well month also was just dealing with like her kid becoming a trad cath and like trying to talk her kid out of

Starting point is 02:39:43 Being a tradcath and like trying to talk her kid out of being a tradcath their kid Fuckin many many shit at her for being like hey Maybe you shouldn't do this like weird marriage thing when you're like a desire like 12 year old marriage. Yeah. Yeah I think I think there's a place I want to end on is there was a really interesting thing where like the Disney account Like just posted a video like I think was on Twitter. That was just one like one hour of Mothma dancing Yeah, and there was like a fascinating reaction to this of like like it's on the one hand It's like always people like who I know Victoria Zeller who's a trans writer who I follow who I probably talking to on the show at some point soon I had this thing but like oh, yeah

Starting point is 02:40:19 Like they're also there's just gonna be weddings that are like based on this chenchilin wedding thing in like like two or three years We're gonna be seeing yeah, and there's this interesting dynamic We're like on the one hand you have the people who are just completely focused on the aesthetic And then the other hand you have the people who are like oh, yeah I like this is this is fucking me getting just absolutely fucked up as like all of the fucking horrors Play out around us and having to like deal with and fight all the fucking horrors while like all of the people around me are just like kind of just completely checked out and I thought it was just like fascinating watching that sort of play out on on social media and on like in real life

Starting point is 02:40:56 like this you know they're being very very literal about how it works and it's working I'm seeing people do it yeah the last thing I do want to mention is just a big shout out to Cyril, to Cyril Kahn's Italian Jewish mother. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The best, the best villain in Star Wars. Darth Vader ain't got shit. Not nearly as scary as Cyril Kahn's mother. No, no. I would take him in a fight over her any day. However, one of the interesting parts about this little dinner party is how Cyril Carr's FBI agent abusive girlfriend,

Starting point is 02:41:34 the moment Cyril is out of the room, she takes control of this mother using all of her imperial interrogation and like intimidation tactics. And it's like, no, no, no, you don't understand how this relationship is going to go. I am in charge here. I will dictate when Cyril can see you, how I will dictate how your relationship with your son is going to go, because like Cyril is like my like pet. Like I I run everything and things will go according to my wishes. See, I had a very different interpretation of that. Really?

Starting point is 02:42:07 Because number one, she is not on board. She's going to be doing part of the Gorman genocide. She doesn't like the plan. She doesn't like that she's involved. This is not what she wants to be doing. She wants to be hunting leuthen. Yes, agreed. And I think part of it is that she doesn't like,

Starting point is 02:42:21 and I think this will become increasingly clear, she's not thrilled that Searal's going to get involved in this shit, because it's dangerous. What I thought they were kind of showing, we've even seen her like, abuse him. I don't think we've seen her be mean to him, other than like, initially when, before they were dating, she didn't take him seriously until he saved her life. Well, I don't know, he's like a weird stalker beforehand. He is a little bit of a stock and she is like I think you can absolutely interpret some of some of her behavior As a like a degree of like emotionally abuse as a fascist couple like before they're dating. Yeah, maybe I don't know

Starting point is 02:42:55 fascist for a fascist couple I Think there's elements and including like the earlier scene of them in the apartment We're like both of them are like very uncomfortable around each other They're awkward people but like they're I one of the things I appreciated about this is that like she is a monster we see her doing exclusively evil things and then Cyril because his mom is so cruel to him does the most relatable thing anyone does in this show and goes and lies down on his bed and has a panic attack in the middle of their dinner. And that's when she says, look bitch, this is how shit's, and she's being a good girlfriend in that moment.

Starting point is 02:43:34 She's getting his mom off his back. I definitely interpret this scene differently. She did also threaten to arrest his uncle. His uncle's a dick. She does threaten to send his uncle to forever jail. Yeah. No, I can see how you would read it that way. I think I definitely do interpret this scene a little bit differently.

Starting point is 02:43:52 Yeah. And I think the beauty of good writing is this ability to look at this relationship in multiple ways. What I like about the way The Empire is written is that they're not caricatures, but not in a way where they're being like, well, the empire's got a point. But in the way that like, yeah, these are people. And I understand how folks, why folks would want to be a part of this system outside of just like the cruelty that it does. Like, um, Pardegas, who is like the leader of the ISB section that we're

Starting point is 02:44:20 watching, is a really good boss. He listens to his subordinates. He tells them when their ideas suck. He does not spare their feelings, but he rewards initiative and he's willing to like be proven wrong or argued with. Like when people are forceful against him and make a good point, he's like, all right,

Starting point is 02:44:39 well, let's try it. And I love showcasing that in the same way that like, if you talk to people who worked for like, work for companies like Raytheon They'll be like, yeah It was a nightmare evil that we were making and like a very healthy working environment And that is often the case with the most some of the most evil organizations on the planet Like people who are very good at managing people often wind up

Starting point is 02:45:02 Like that's what makes fascist systems so dangerous. It's not that everyone in this is incompetent. It's that there are sometimes people who are very good organizers and very competent leaders who wind up in these systems. And that's part of what allows the evil to happen. The point of the point of Star Wars is that also you could out organize them and beat them. So message of hope. Yes, yes. I mean, fundamentally, the show is very hopeful because the Empire, number one, we know the Empire falls,

Starting point is 02:45:30 but number two, we're seeing, we're seeing, like, why, right? Which is this attempt to control everything that inevitably creates more fires than you can put out. Yeah, the tighter they hold their grip, the more systems will slip through their fingers. Yeah. Yep. Which is the line from the theory twink in season one. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:45:51 And I think what makes the Ender Soil special is this does fill in this gap of like, when we jump into like A New Hope, you have this fully complete rebel alliance, right? It is an alliance of different rebel cells that have come together to do a large scale military action. It takes a lot of buildup to get an alliance of rebel cells. A whole bunch of like individual like rebel terrorist cells have a usually have a very hard time

Starting point is 02:46:13 working with each other. Yes. And it's very hard to get them to coordinate. Yeah. And Endor is the story of watching these like many different cells slowly start to figure out that maybe it would make more sense if we work together. Instead of just doing random small crimes and like hits on individual planets or imperial processing plants. The ability to see these cells come together is what makes I think Andor so special. And for the rest of the season, we're going to move forward a year at a time all the way up to the beginning of Rogue One. More than we do have that like the completed Rebel Alliance, so I am I'm excited to watch that that develop. Yep. All right. Well, see you next week

Starting point is 02:47:12 And the dream season is now complete. The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series, Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being benched. For the entire behind-the-scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10-year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We asked parents who adopted teens to share their journey.

Starting point is 02:47:45 We just kind of knew from the beginning that we were family. They showcased a sense of love that I never had before. I mean, he's not only my parent, like he's like my best friend. At the end of the day, it's all been worth it. I wouldn't change a thing about our lives. Learn about adopting a teen from foster care. Visit adoptUSkids.org to learn more. Brought to you by AdoptUS Kids, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.

Starting point is 02:48:11 I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a

Starting point is 02:48:42 few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend, and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommates' toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head

Starting point is 02:49:02 and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. I'm Clayton English. I'm Greg Glod. And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back.

Starting point is 02:49:19 In a big way. In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives. This is kind of star-studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner. It's just a compassionate choice to allow players all reasonable means to care for themselves. Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne from Brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher. Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-unquote drug thing is. Benny the Butcher.

Starting point is 02:49:45 Brent Smith from Shinedown. Got B-Real from Cypress Hill. NHL enforcer Riley Cote. Marine Corvette. MMA fighter Liz Karamouche. What we're doing now isn't working and we need to change things. Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

Starting point is 02:49:59 It makes it real. It really does. It makes it real. Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs podcast season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcast. This is it sorry Garrison Wow I interrupted you it's we have a whole thing that we've been doing we have been we have been this is the first episode that started differently in like 12 weeks.

Starting point is 02:50:46 You're right, you're right. Why don't you introduce erectile dysfunction or whatever we call this? That's not what it's called. This is, it could happen here, Executive Disorder, the weekly newscast where we cover, you know, everything happening in the White House, the crumbling world and what it means for you.

Starting point is 02:51:02 I'm Garrison Davis, I'm joined by federal, no, New Mexico, state, magistrate, judge. New Mexico municipal judge. Municipal judge, Robert Evans. That's right. Neil Wong and James Stout. We're covering the week of April 24th to April 30th. Yes. And we're sponsored by hims. Not yet, but hopefully. When they release thems, we will accept their contract money

Starting point is 02:51:27 One day Robert what's going on with your fellow judges? I want to get to that garrison some very important news just dropped from the real raw news Twitter account Oh boy sharing what you don't want shared a hundred and seven thousand followers Special forces that accompanied President Trump to the Pope's funeral arrested Biden for treason afterward But it turned out to be a body double so Breaking news turns out sleepy Joe still has a trick or two up his sleeve Patriots not in control People I

Starting point is 02:52:02 desperately want to live in the world where like In the purple world, people must live it. I desperately want to live in the world where Joe Biden is a Saw Gerrera type rebel figure, like tricking special forces with body doubles hiding in the mountains. They call him Joe the Jackal for a reason. They have him locked up in a Vatican vault where he's scheming his return.

Starting point is 02:52:19 He just stole a nuke from Fort Leonard Wood. Oh boy. He's in a tiny submarine making his way to Cuba right now. I guess, you know, speaking of the Pope, Trump himself has announced his running for the Pope ship. Why not? Let him have it. Let him have it.

Starting point is 02:52:37 We will keep a close eye on that. Let him have it, but make Stanley Tucci do whatever job Stanley Tucci had him conclave. Make him the Lib-Cuck cardinal. Why not? That's right. That's right. Speaking of Lib-Cuck, no, speaking of judges who actually exercised a great deal of personal

Starting point is 02:52:52 courage, there have been two cases in the last week or so of judges being arrested and charged by the Trump administration with crimes that are all related to aiding and abetting undocumented immigrants. Right? I'm going to start with the case of Hannah Dugan. Hannah Dugan is a Wisconsin, she's a Milwaukee County circuit judge. She was sworn in in 2016. So she's, I wanted to say, I wanted to say she hasn't been doing this very long, but no, that's literally like nine years, eight or nine years.

Starting point is 02:53:20 So she's been doing this a spell. She's 65 years old. And on March 12th, there was a fellow, Flores Ruiz is his last name. He's 30 years old, who was arrested after basically there was a confrontation between him and his roommates for him playing loud music. He was confronted for this on March 12th and he allegedly fought with a male roommate in the kitchen. A woman, I'm not sure if she was a roommate or just there, tried to break them up. Two women eventually did. One of them got elbowed in the arm, allegedly, by Flores Ruiz. One of them was struck while trying to break them up. It is unclear to the degree to which...

Starting point is 02:53:59 I'm hearing a lot of people, like I went to the Centrist subreddit to see this and they're like, well, a serial abuser of women? That's not really what he's being accused of. There was like a fight between him and another guy and it got chaotic. One person elbowed in the arm. I'm sorry, I don't consider that serious domestic abuse unless it's part of a pattern. If it's literally he was fighting a guy and other people swarmed in and some of them, one of them got elbowed.

Starting point is 02:54:23 I don't know about this woman that he's alleged of striking. To what degree did he haul off and punch her or was it again, there was this chaotic struggle and several people got struck in the middle of it. This isn't great, but this is certainly not. The evidence that has been provided by the state here in this case is not that this is a serial domestic abuser of women. It's a guy who was involved in a chaotic fight with a roommate and a couple of other people. He's being charged with misdemeanor domestic battery as a result of this.

Starting point is 02:54:52 He faces up to nine months in prison and a $10,000 fine on each count if convicted. He has not been convicted and is innocent until proven guilty. He went up in front of Judge Dugan literally a few days ago when we record this and While she was in the midst of like having this like court meeting basically I think this was kind of like a pretrial Deal right where they're where where they're kind of like setting the ground rules of things she finds out that ice is in the courthouse and that they are looking for Flores Ruiz and So she gets really angry because based on what Wisconsin has stated, like the actual

Starting point is 02:55:27 like law in the state, they are not supposed to be interfering in actual court proceedings. And part of the reason why is that the courts don't want people to be dissuaded from dealing with their state level court issues by the fact that ICE might pick them up. Right? It will stop people. It will make people go on the run. It makes it very difficult to enforce law and order. And I also-

Starting point is 02:55:50 Or like victims, right? Like I've heard at least of some- Makes it difficult for victims to get any sort of justice. Yes. Yeah. The FBI affidavit describes her as getting visibly angry when immigration shows up, and she leaves the bench, right? And she retreats to her chambers and I think confers with another judge.

Starting point is 02:56:05 And she and that judge then approach the arrest team inside the courthouse. The affidavit describes her as having a confrontational angry demeanor. She basically keeps saying, show me your fucking warrant, right? And they don't have a quote unquote real warrant, right? They do not have a criminal arrest warrant. They have an administrative warrant, which based on the actual law, she does not have to let them in. That is not the way these things fucking work.

Starting point is 02:56:32 Into the courtroom to interrupt the proceedings on the strength of this warrant. She tells them to speak with the chief judge and she leads them away from the courtroom. Once she sends them to the chief judge's office, this is where the thing that may in fact be criminal behavior comes in. Dugan goes back into the courtroom and says something along the lines of, wait, come with me, and then takes Flores Ruiz and his lawyer through the jury door into a non-public area of the courthouse. This is not normal behavior and ICE is alleging that this is interfering with the duties of

Starting point is 02:57:03 federal agents. That she's basically hiding an undocumented immigrant who is being actively tracked by ICE, right? And that that is a federal crime. And so that is the situation, right? When it was found out that this was happening, the FBI and ICE arrested her. She has since bailed out. She is facing several federal charges.

Starting point is 02:57:24 And it's, you know, kind of unclear where this case is going to go. In terms of her initial behavior, she was absolutely legally in the right that administrative warrant did not give ICE the right to interrupt the court proceedings. She led them to the chief judge. That was all entirely within the law. We're going to learn how the law adjudicates what she did afterwards, right? Taking these people through, because it's not illegal to lead people through a back door.

Starting point is 02:57:51 It's not a crime to tell people to leave this way. But what may be adjudicated as a crime is that by doing this, she was helping to aid and abet the escape of a fugitive, right? And that is the argument that the federal government is making here. Yeah. They didn't leave the building at that point, right? Like, because in the charging documents, then an ICE agent gets in the elevator with them and decides not to detain them at that point for some reason.

Starting point is 02:58:15 Yeah, yeah. I believe that's what happened. And that part of it is why I think they picked this case because they thought it was close enough, on the edge enough, that they could charge a judge. And I think that is the purpose of this more than going after this. And that's why they've been going to these courts is they have been looking, they've been shopping for a situation like this. In part because one of the first things that happened is the Wisconsin Supreme Court suspended

Starting point is 02:58:38 Judge Dugan because she's been charged with two federal counts. And this is a normal thing. If a judge gets accused of federal crimes, you would in normal terms want them to be suspended because those crimes are probably something like they were selling children to a child prison, which is a thing that happened to Trump, pardon, the judge is responsible, right?

Starting point is 02:58:55 You would want those people not trying cases while this was going on. But what's going to be done here and what's already being done here is that judges that are friendly to and sympathetic to undocumented people and who are not gigantic pieces of shit and Judge Dugan comes out of a, of a public defense background. This is somebody who defended people like the defendant in this case in her previous

Starting point is 02:59:16 life as a lawyer. And I think acted with tremendous courage in this situation to try to protect somebody. Very brave. They are going after her because number one, they want to chill other judges from doing this and number two, they can keep her off the bench, right? And assume she'll be replaced with somebody worse or that they will just clog up the system, either way of which works in their favor.

Starting point is 02:59:35 So it will be unclear how things are going to work out in this case. I can't tell you legally what's going to happen. That could go either way. I can tell you, and I think this is a very important point. It's a point Jared Yates Sexton, who's a scholar on fascism made online about this particular case is we shouldn't give a shit if she broke the law. She did the right thing. These people are doing the wrong thing and they need to be stopped. Yeah. Right?

Starting point is 03:00:06 And that is my overall stance. What she did was heroic and we should support her and fuck these people. I don't know. Yeah. Yep. Yep. I don't have a complicated take on this. Solidarity with the Wisconsin judiciary or at least one of them.

Starting point is 03:00:21 At least one of them. Yeah. I have a friend who knows her and says she's a very nice person and her actions in this case certainly would seem to suggest that she's a very nice, good, courageous person. Yeah, and like just to... There's conceivably like a person listening who thinks that, I know these deportation things are okay. I don't know if you are. Fuck you. Why? This isn't for you. Go away. Yeah, we're not making it for you. Why? This isn't for you, go away. Yeah, we're not making a pro-ghost for you. You know what? Put rocks in your pockets. There's bodies of whatever.

Starting point is 03:00:52 Even if you fucking like the deportation for whatever reason, you should be able to understand that doing this in courthouses is bad. Like if a... let's just take an example, right? Like if a woman who is undocumented is subject to domestic violence, going to testify in court could lead to her being deported. Like this is fucking bad. It could subject her to even more violence from the state, from wherever she's trying to flee from. Yeah. To being detained with people. Yeah. If you believe in the judicial system, right?

Starting point is 03:01:26 This stops it functioning. Also, I want to say this too, if you're purely coming at this from a perspective of like, well, I'm still a law and order guy, this also vastly endangers Wisconsin police, because if every undocumented person who gets accused of a crime knows that, well, the instant I'm accused,

Starting point is 03:01:44 I'm going to be sent to a fucking concentration camp Might as well start shooting right? Yeah, that's why you don't see very many of these things happening in states where people regularly carry firearms Yes, so again, you know, that's all I'm saying. That's not my primary concern, but I'm going to make that point Yeah, what about the other like weirder case of the New Mexico case? The judge in New Mexico. Yes. So now back to my fellow New Mexico municipal judge. Actually, I think he was in a county magistrate. Yeah. So he and I basically the same. So there's this guy, Nancy Cano, who's a former police officer. His wife was a cop and Joel Cano,

Starting point is 03:02:22 who was the Donna Ana County magistrate judge. These two are really, you wouldn't have expected what happened from this group. These two are a cop and a judge couple. Radical, lefty lunatics. Who are wealthy landlords who own at least eight properties. And they hire three men to do like, you know, contracting work. And those men included a guy, Cristian Ortega Lopez, 23 years old, right? Who is a Venezuelan migrant.

Starting point is 03:02:51 And first off, because these are cops, or a cop and a judge, they like check his papers, which say do not deport, right? Like he is in the system. Not subject to removal. This person is not subject to removal, right? Those are on his papers, they check his papers. They work, these three guys work for them for a while

Starting point is 03:03:10 and develop a close relationship with the Kano's to the point that they refer to them as the boys. And when they get kicked out of their apartment, they let them live with them. I think for free, or at least for a nominal fee. And as they describe it, they came to consider them part of the family. And there's like photo evidence of that.

Starting point is 03:03:30 And including photo evidence of them like going to the gun range together as like a family day at the gun range and shooting. And like this guy, Artagel Lopez, like posts pictures of these people and these like family outings on his Facebook. Like they really do seem to have all been very close. Yeah.

Starting point is 03:03:46 Earlier this year, ICE comes for these guys, the boys, these three, these three dudes who are living on their property and a small guest house on the Kano's property. And they allege Ortega Ortiz to have been a member of Trin de Agua. And it's based on, and I hate most of the reporting on this because it's all just like the alleged Alleged gang member alleged Trin da Agua member and you look at it Well, he has tattoos and there's pictures of him with guns pictures him with guns that are legally owned by Americans at a gun range Yeah, he's a 23 year old guy coming to America like there's a high correlation with those people and people going to a gun range Yeah, nothing illegal with that.

Starting point is 03:04:26 But they're like a gang member photos of guns on his Facebook. Oh my God. So these guys get arrested, right? And it's initially and this is like a month or so ago, big scandal. Kano resigns from his position as a magistrate, right? And gets permanently barred from serving as a judge in New Mexico because these guys had been on his property. Even though again, there's not any evidence that I have seen anywhere that he actually

Starting point is 03:04:49 did anything illegal at this point. Now here's where things get problematic. At this point, the government is treating them as people who are here illegally and they are trying to kick them out and they are accusing them. These three guys are being evolved in Trinidad. At this point, Nancy Kano provides them with legal assistance in complying with the procedures of their pending immigration cases, right? Which shouldn't be illegal. She's literally helping them abide by the law, right?

Starting point is 03:05:20 But there's some other things. So Joel Kano, this is where this guy turns from like, fucking married a cop, he's a landlord, he smashes Ortega Lopez's phone. He admits, he's admitted that he's done this. This is not an allegation. With a hammer to stop ICE from getting it. So first off, based. Like, illegal, super illegal, super illegal,

Starting point is 03:05:43 but not a, like a good person act, I would argue. Secondly, Nancy tries to help, and this is, I think, a grayer area, tries to help Ortega-Lopez delete his Facebook account. And I don't actually think there's any evidence of him doing anything illegal on there. I think it's just they knew the photos he posted of him not breaking any laws

Starting point is 03:06:03 would be used as an argument that he had. I think that that's defensible in court, although they will allege that it's destruction of the evidence. They may win on that. Breaking the phone is, you know, that's going to be a tough one for them. That's just going to be a tough one for them. Now, the Kano's are currently being charged and they have been released. They can't leave the county.

Starting point is 03:06:23 The prosecutors were attempting to have them separated so that they couldn't talk about the case. But thank God the judge ruling was like, they're married. They have a constitutional right to be together. You don't get to do that. But obviously they have to like hand in their passports, any guns they'd had, which they seem to have already done. The good news is that these are rich people, right?

Starting point is 03:06:43 Like the judge even makes a comment that like, these are the wealthiest people I've ever had in my courtroom. So they have the resources to fight this. And again, fucking politics making strange bedfellows. Yep. Critical support to the landlord judge cop couple who tried to protect these immigrants.

Starting point is 03:07:02 I don't know, like whatever. They did the right thing. In my opinion. Again, not the legal thing. And I'm not urging you to follow them in breaking the law. Making it very clear, it is illegal to break the phone of somebody that you know the police are looking for because they've been charged with crimes.

Starting point is 03:07:20 That is a crime. I'm just saying, I think what they did was out of love and brave. Anyway, that's what I gotta say Speaking of love I love these ads All right, we are back I am now going to discuss, I believe the word is a flurry of executive orders that happened the past week. Because there was a ton, this was a huge week for actions through executive order. We've tried to summarize a few of these that have like, or a few orders that have come in the past few months. But yeah, definitely the ones that happened last week are much more notable and I will go through them one by one

Starting point is 03:08:09 Starting off with an attempt to possibly repeal large sections of the Civil Rights Act Mm-hmm Trump signed an order to quote eliminate the use of disparate impact liability in all Context to the maximum degree possible liability in all contexts to the maximum degree possible. Disparate impact is a legal theory that seeks to address discriminatory policies that on their face may appear neutral, but actually continue decades-old discrimination and segregation. This order from Trump revokes presidential approval for Title VI anti-discrimination regulations from the 60s and 70s, and orders all agencies to quote, De-prioritize enforcement of all statutes and regulations to the extent that they include disparate impact liability. The order calls for the Attorney General to quote, initiate appropriate action to repeal or amend the implementing regulations for Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. before. Cabinet members were also instructed to review all pending investigations, civil

Starting point is 03:09:05 suits, consent judgments, permanent injunctions, and government positions that rely on spirit impact theory. That includes titles 7 and 8 of the Civil Rights Act, which protects equal employment and fair housing. This is kind of part of a larger attack on civil rights in general. Obviously, the past few months we've seen this with DEI stuff. But last week, the DOJ essentially closed its existing civil rights office, resigned a dozen senior career attorneys, curbed investigations into police misconduct and violations of voting and disability rights. Plus, the Education and Discrimination Division is now being directed to protect women's sports,

Starting point is 03:09:45 and the Immigrant and Employee Rights Division was told to investigate companies that quote, unlawfully discriminate against U.S. workers in favor of foreign visa workers, unquote. So that's how they think they're going to be defending civil rights is by keeping trans girls out of sports and going after foreign visa workers. Basically, they're trying to turn federal civil rights infrastructure against those whom they were meant to protect in the first place. The next order kind of outlies something I'm calling cop nation. It's called, quote, strengthening and unleashing America's law enforcement to pursue criminals

Starting point is 03:10:20 and protect innocent civilians. This is kind of like a proto-martial law order. It's what you would do beforehand to strengthen police, but not actually like declare martial law. It's setting kind of the path towards that, or at the very least like strengthening law enforcement to the degree to which it like butts up against what martial law would be.

Starting point is 03:10:42 The order calls to quote, unleash high impact local police forces, protect and defend law enforcement officers wrongly accused and abused by state or local officials and surge resources to officers in need, unquote. It directs the attorney general to create a mechanism to have private sector law firms provide pro bono legal defense to police officers

Starting point is 03:11:03 who, quote, unjustly incur expenses and liabilities for actions taken during the performance of their official duties to enforce the law unquote. So this tries to make it harder for police to be held accountable for a civil and criminal misconduct, basically extending qualified immunity to the criminal realm. According to Business Insider quote, following previous executive orders targeting a number of elite firms, nine law firms have agreed to deals with the president and collectively agreed to provide $940 million in pro-bono legal services to support the president's policies, unquote.

Starting point is 03:11:39 This order also calls to use federal resources to increase pay, expand training, and strengthen legal protections for police officers, as well as to quote, seek enhanced sentences for crimes against law enforcement officers, promote investment in the security and capacity of prisons, and increase the investment in and collection, distribution, and uniformity of crime data across jurisdictions, unquote. The attorney general is directed to review and remove any previous accountability restrictions placed on to local or state law enforcement agencies that might unduly impede the performance of law enforcement functions. And then finally, quote, Attorney General and

Starting point is 03:12:16 Secretary of Defense in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security and the heads of agencies as appropriate shall increase the provision of excess military and national security assets in local jurisdictions to assist state and local law enforcement, and shall determine how military and national security assets training, non-lethal capabilities, and personnel can most effectively be utilized to prevent crime." So moving more military and national security resources over to state and local law enforcement and directs the AG to go after state and local officials that obstruct criminal law by, quote, prohibiting law enforcement officers from carrying out duties necessary for public safety or unlawfully engage in discrimination or civil rights violations under the guise of DEI.

Starting point is 03:13:01 Do you want to discuss anything with this, you know, anti-ACAB executive order here and what it might actually do in reality besides expanding legal protections for cops? I mean, I think the worrying one to me is that they're very explicitly talking about using military and national security assets in the US against Americans. The thing right now we're doing is to prevent crime, but I think very obviously everyone is like, this crime, but like I think very obviously everyone is like that this immediately gone like part of this obviously is about like trying to defeat any attempt to even moderately reform the police. But a lot of it is also like, yeah, they're expecting giant, they're expecting giant protests this

Starting point is 03:13:33 summer and they want to be able to use military assets here. And what they're doing with this secretary of defense is developing a plan to use military assets presumably against protesters either that or, you know, and I mean, like, specific thing here is, like, used to prevent crime, which is just, like, the deployment of the US military against, like, us. Right? That's, I think, a pretty cut and dry. They are developing the apparatus through which they are going to attempt to deploy the army against, like, US citizens in the US. Well, and it also specifically like empowers like individual peace officers against any like perceived restrictions that like local or state officials might be putting on them. Yeah. And like I think that's what makes it more super worrying for me.

Starting point is 03:14:15 It's like it's like enabling like the police state aspect of like the of the executive branch saying, hey, like individual cops, we support you more so than whatever like local jurisdiction you are, like, under. And if the local jurisdictions try to, like, restrict your ability to, like, to... To do violence. Restrict your ability to do your job, we are going to help you to make sure that you have the legal and, like, physical capacity to continue your job as you see fit. We will throw the high- dollar lawyers that we have threatened into Working for us at these states and municipalities

Starting point is 03:14:55 Both to like defend your individual actions and then also go after the people in charge of you like like like both of them Yeah. Yeah, so it's more like CPD black site shit like Yeah, Nazi gang shit like, you know, they're just like shooting people Yeah, like that's the kind of shit. Yeah. Torture. The data sharing, I think, is something people should be aware of. Like that, that seems to be what I would imagine would be funding for more federal fusion centers and then equipping them with like Homeland Security assets, intelligence assets that

Starting point is 03:15:20 are already used outside the US. Like that is concerning, especially in a climate of migration crackdown, right? This data sharing will help them further target migrants. Well, and this relates to another executive order for protecting American communities from criminal aliens. Basically, it targets sanctuary cities. The Attorney General and the DHS Secretary will publish a list of sanctuary jurisdictions that obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration law, and federal funds to those districts will be suspended or terminated.

Starting point is 03:15:51 And if those districts remain sanctuary districts after officials have been notified of their status, then necessary legal remedies and enforcement measures shall be pursued to, quote, end these violations. Section 1 of this order lists several federal criminal laws that they say are being violated by these sanctuary districts, including quote, obstruction of justice, unlawfully harboring or hiring illegal aliens, conspiracy against the United States and conspiracy to impede federal law enforcement, assisting aliens in violating federal immigration law could also violate the Racketeer InfInfluenced and Corrupt Organizations Act."

Starting point is 03:16:26 So they're even wrapping in RICO here for state and local officials who are trying to protect immigrants in their communities. There's a few other executive orders I want to mention, including one that requires professional truck drivers speak English. I think this is actually just to mask the consequences of the tariffs with the fact that a lot of truck drivers are losing their jobs. Yes. So this is to hide those layoffs or try to force people to get laid off if they don't

Starting point is 03:16:52 speak good enough English or to create pretext to have these layoffs be justified as we see the shipping industry slowly collapse because of the tariffs. Another order that's just more frustrating, I guess, to me and like worrying long-term about the future is, quote, advancing artificial intelligence education for American youth. And I'm actually going to play a video here of Trump signing this order. This next executive order relates to artificial intelligence education, sir. You've obviously done a lot in the artificial intelligence space already. The basic idea of this executive order is to ensure that we properly train the workforce of the future by ensuring that school children, young Americans are adequately trained in

Starting point is 03:17:36 AI tools so that they can be competitive in the economy years from now into the future as AI becomes a bigger and bigger deal. That's a big deal. Here's AI is where it seems to be at. We have literally trillions of dollars being invested invested in AI. And there are somebody today, a very smart person said that AI is the way to the future. I don't know if that's right or not, but certainly very smart people are investing in it heavily. the future. I don't know if that's right or not, but certainly very smart people are investing in it heavily. This clip is super interesting to me because it demonstrates just how little Trump knows what's really going on. Like this is the first time he's seen this order. He has to get explained

Starting point is 03:18:14 what it is before he signs his name on it. They're just handing him these things and he's just signing papers. He is he is he is not like dictating which things he actually wants to happen. He just gets handed stuff and there's cameras on. He's like, hey, this is to help AI with kids. And you're so smart about AI, Mr. President. And he's like, yes, I am, as he signs his name. The actual text of this order is really freaky. Quote, by fostering AI competency, we will equip our students with the foundational knowledge and skills necessary to adapt and thrive in an increasing digital society. Early learning and exposure to AI concepts not only demystifies this powerful technology,

Starting point is 03:18:49 but also sparks curiosity and creativity, preparing students to become active and responsible participants in the workforce of the future. To achieve this vision, we must also invest in our educators and equip them with the tools and knowledge to not only train students about AI, but also to utilize AI in their classrooms to improve educational outcomes." James, how do you feel about that as an educator yourself? Probably 50% of my time in the classroom right now is trying to explain to people where they shouldn't copy paste the assignment into chat gvd. And like every year for the past three or four years, we have dealt with like bots,

Starting point is 03:19:28 like students in my class who are not real people. I've dealt with more and more and more use of AI. It's from people who I think, like the folks who are coming through my classroom now, like many of their like high school years when they should have been getting good, solid like writing tuition, were during COVID lockdowns, right? And so like I'm not entirely blaming like the folks coming through my class here, but it is.

Starting point is 03:19:54 It's a fucked situation that's only getting worse. It's fucked. It's like I've been educating people for nearly two decades, like I've never come across anything this bad. It is fundamentally damaging people's engagement with education and their ability to learn. It's giving them permanent brain damage. It is life altering their ability to think in a way that may never be recoverable for a lot of people. Yeah, like I don't want to be a boomer, like a whatever, but it's fundamentally different. It's not.

Starting point is 03:20:23 There's data on this. The AI companies have, Microsoft has data on this. It damages people. Yeah. It needs to be banned. And finding good solutions for that, writing assignments that AI can't write. Like it's not that hard,

Starting point is 03:20:36 before people come into my mentions, right? Saying like, oh, you can use this to detect AI. I can detect it because the assignments it submits are shit. The problem is that people keep using it. Because as Robert said, they're running out of other options. And they're like really committing to this. The end of the order directs the Secretary of Education to provide grant funding to quote, improve educational outcomes using AI, including but not limited to AI based high quality instructional

Starting point is 03:21:03 resources, high impact tutoring, and college and career pathway exploration, advising, and navigation." Yeah, I mean, sadly, like these federal and to an extent state level too, like dictats, I guess, do impact what you're supposed to put on your syllabus, right? Like, especially for like high school students, these can genuinely impact what high school teachers are supposed to teach. It changes a little bit, like once you get to the university level, and I guess we'll see how this goes, but like this is genuinely could have a very damaging impact on, and it already has had a damaging impact on the US education system.

Starting point is 03:21:42 Yeah. I have one more thing I want to read here. This is actually a presidential memorandum, not executive order. But this calls to investigate Democrat and grassroots funding platform ActBlue, alleging, quote, schemes to launder excessive and prohibited contributions to political candidates and committees, unquote. ActBlue has been the target of conspiracy theories for years, starting with James O'Keefe and Elon Musk has recently targeted ActBlue has been the target of conspiracy theories for years, starting with James O'Keefe and Elon Musk has recently targeted ActBlue with bizarre conspiracy theories on how ActBlue

Starting point is 03:22:10 functions and is used to funnel money to like Antifa and George Soros money getting moved over to all of these Tesla vandals, crazy stuff. But specifically, Trump is calling the Attorney General and Treasury Secretary to quote, investigate allegations regarding the unlawful use of online fundraising platforms to make straw or dummy contributions or foreign contributions to political candidates and committees and to take appropriate action to enforce the law, unquote. I think this whole thing beyond trying to, you know, harm the Democrats ability to like win elections in the future as a form of like election meddling, is also just like a big smoke screen away from a CNN investigation last year into deceptive practices used by political fundraising platforms, WinRed and ActBlue, which found that the Republican platform had more than seven times the fraud

Starting point is 03:22:59 complaints sent to the FCC than ActBlue during the period of 2022 to 2024. With the fundraising platform targeting aging seniors who thought they were personal friends of the Trump family, with propaganda and emails that tricked them into signing up for recurring donations and what they thought was a personal correspondence to President Trump. It's a really worrying investigation. It'll be linked below. And like, you know, meanwhile, you have Elon Musk literally offering people millions of dollars to like get people to sign up to vote and sign petitions and, and yet they're going to try to try to investigate, you know,

Starting point is 03:23:33 fraud in in Democrat and grassroots fundraising, which I'm sure there is a little bit of. But according to this investigation by CNN, so much more fraud on the on the on the Republican fundraising platform. You know, there is actually one Democrat who we can verifiably claim did a bunch of weird fundraising shit and did straw donations from foreign donors, and it is Eric Adams, who is Trump's favorite Democrat. It's the one guy who actually did. Trump is personally keeping out of prison. Oh, God. Fantastic.

Starting point is 03:24:05 Anyway, that is the that's the flurry. We're going to go on one more break and then come back to close out on some immigration and tariff updates. Hell yeah. We're back. And wait, what's that? Do you hear the dulcet tones of an angel? If you like it. Rockin' the Casbah. Rockin' the Casbah.

Starting point is 03:24:48 We're gonna get to the rest of the Clash Catalog. We got four years. Yes, yes. I'm really looking for a- Desecrating the temple. We're working on a cover of Lost in the Supermarket, where there's just nothing in the supermarket because of the tariffs.

Starting point is 03:25:00 That's tough, that's tough. It's actually very easy to find my way around in the supermarket now because there's nothing on sale. All right what's what's actually happening with with the tariff tariffs? I'm gonna I'm just gonna start by reading Trump's incredible cope about why everything's going to shit. This is Trump. This is a truth from true social. This is Biden's stock market, not Trump's. I didn't take over until January 20th. Terrorists will start kicking in, or soon start kicking in, and companies are starting to move to the US in record numbers. Our country will boom, but we

Starting point is 03:25:36 have to get rid of the Biden quote, overhang. This will take a while. Has nothing to do with the tariffs. All caps. Only that he left us with bad numbers, but when the boom begins it will be like no other. Be patient. This is Biden's stock market. Yeah. So the reason he's saying this is that, so today we got a report that the US for the first quarter suffered the first like actual economic contraption

Starting point is 03:26:01 of the economy since like 2022. And that basically there was like one quarter in 2022 were contracted. And then it like basically since like the lockdowns, it's been expanding. We are probably already in the recession. And the other thing that's very important to note here, right, is you're seeing a lot of reporting about this being a contraction. And a lot of the reporting will talk about how like, yeah is because people are like rushing to do their all their imports right now before the tariffs hit. The thing is right this economic contraction is like before the actual substantive impact

Starting point is 03:26:34 of the tariffs hit. So this is just the beginning of like the rolling economic collapse that all of these turf tariffs are going to generate. There's been a little bit of movement in the sense that like, okay, so when I last talked about sort of the declines in like shipping from China or just shipping in general, it was mostly like sort of, I don't know what you'd call them, shipping industry trade press. This has hit like the mainstream press now that, you know,

Starting point is 03:27:05 some of these indicators are showing 60% import drops from China. And it looks like China is maybe kind of starting the preliminary things to figure out how to figure out negotiations and that they've been the Chinese government has been going behind the scenes and talking to a bunch of like high profile American companies and has been like quietly repealing some of their 125 percent retaliatory tariffs on the US on like very specific goods. We'll see what happens there. There hasn't been more movement than that. What is also very interesting is that so okay so like obviously like a bunch of like prices are just increasing already in places like like Temu and like Shien. And Amazon was going to have like a counter that showed how much additional

Starting point is 03:27:49 money you were spending because of the tariffs. And they announced that they were going to do this. And then President Trump like got on the phone with Jeff Bezos and yelled at him. And then Jeff Bezos said he wasn't going to do it. But this is also an interesting thing because we're actually starting to see cracks between Trump and like people like Bezos, like the tech people who really have been his like closest base of support, right? For like the entire project in terms of like large scale sectors of capital. It's been these people who have been backing him. And I think as the stuff continues, we're going to continue

Starting point is 03:28:22 to see rifts between them and the Trump administration over shit like this, because, you know, like people get really, really, we talked about a lot in episodes we've done on pricing and inflation is that people get really pissed off and prices go up. And that's a way to like, you know, this is a problem for these companies, because this is a way you lose sort of brand loyalty. And that's like, how everything goes to shit. And Trump has to is doing all these deflections to be like it's not actually the terrorists that are doing this because people are gonna be really pissed about this and yeah I don't know welcome welcome to quarter one of the recession this is

Starting point is 03:28:55 going to be the best quarter of the economy for a long time yeah tariff talk okay so let's close out with immigration update. I'm just going to speed run a few of these and we'll get a little deeper into some of them. The New York Times is reporting that once again the Trump administration has separated a child from their parents. Jesus fucking Christ. A federal court denied the government's motion to dismiss a First Amendment challenge to

Starting point is 03:29:23 its policy of deporting pro-Palestine anti-genocide activists. So that allows the case to go ahead. So it allows a First Amendment challenge to be mounted, which is a good thing, given that this is, like their policy right now is a frontal assault on the First Amendment for people who are not citizens. In the Abrego Garcia case, both sides agreed to a seven-day pause in the discovery process after the passing of sealed motions. Then on Tuesday this week, the DOJ filed another sealed motion. We can speculate, and you will see people speculating if you go onto the Blue Sky or

Starting point is 03:30:02 Twitter or whatever. I don't think it's beneficial to do that in this case, right? What we should be focusing on is that a man is in a prison camp who did nothing wrong. It doesn't matter. The justice system is continuing to fail him because he is still there. And so are hundreds of other people. The experimental quote national defense area in New Mexico, so we spoke last week about the Roosevelt reservation, right? And they are starting this militarization

Starting point is 03:30:30 with the Roosevelt reservation with an area in New Mexico. And we've seen the first charges that are filed against migrants. According to Washington Post, at least 28 people have been charged or added to their charges, a penalty for violation of security regulations in addition to them being charged with entry without inspection. Hegseth visited the area this week and he talked about how they were going to post signage in English and Spanish to indicating that crossing the area would be trespassing on US military property. Increasing numbers of migrants over the last few years have not spoken either of those languages.

Starting point is 03:31:06 It doesn't seem to be something they've accounted for here. The US attorney for New Mexico allegedly, according to the post, quote, can't wait to begin charging people who cross. So that's great. And so it does seem that they are using this, as we talked about a week or so ago, as a way to quickly charge and then deport people who are entering the United States between ports of entry. In other court news, a judge in Colorado placed a tentative restraining order on the use of the Alien Enemies Act there without

Starting point is 03:31:38 21 days of notice in a language the person understands, advising them of their right to bring a habeas challenge. So that means if someone is going to be removed under the person understands, advising them of their right to bring a habeas challenge. So that means if someone is going to be removed under the AEA, they have to get three weeks of notice and that notice has to advise them that they have the right to bring a challenge. And then as opposed to what they're doing right now, which is deporting people extremely quickly. And this was upheld by the 10th Circuit, so that's in place there. It'll be interesting to see how many of them are able to bring, but still bringing a habeas challenge is complicated, it can be expensive and requires a lot of legal time.

Starting point is 03:32:10 And I know most lawyers who work in immigration are overwhelmed currently. Yes. In California, a judge has ruled that CBP can't carry out warrantless stops and arrests after the ACLU filed a suit in response to the CBP sector's operation return to sender, which happened in late 2024. So people, this is one of the things that people may have already forgotten about, but in December of 2024, CBP started detaining residents, migrants, laborers outside a home depot, a grocery store and at road checkpoints up into California's Central Valley.

Starting point is 03:32:45 People are thinking the Central Valley is a very long way from El Centro. What are they doing up there? I've included a map of border patrol sectors in the sources today so people can see, but although the El Centro sector only spans 71 miles of linear border, it goes a lot further north. So that's what they were doing out there. The judge in this case, who is US District Court Judge Jennifer Thurston, said, quote, you just can't walk up to people with brown skin and say, give me your papers. There's some very good reporting on this in

Starting point is 03:33:15 CalMatters, which I've also linked in the sources today. Notably, I looked through the order today, the court order, and one of the things we get is kind of a vision into how Border Patrol is expediting these deportations. So I'm going to quote from that order here, quote, once Border Patrol agents transported the people they arrested to the El Centro station, they would, quote, extract voluntary departure agreements from as many people as possible without explaining the consequences. This is all That this is the plaintiff's contention, which is ACLU, right? So we've seen this a lot, right?

Starting point is 03:33:54 Like we saw in the in the case when they detained a citizen in Tucson not so long ago that they're trying to get people to sign These documents sometimes you're not actually in most cases. I believe you're not actually signing a physical document. You're signing one of those little pressure pad screens and you might be given an iPad to read the document on, but you don't get a chance to look and flick through the document and then sign a physical copy of the document. The injunction that happened here only applies in the Eastern District of California. The judge also ordered Border Patrol to record all arrests and stops and report them within 40 days. The government argued this would be too burdensome, which is odd because they're already required

Starting point is 03:34:36 to do paperwork when they arrest or stop someone, but that was a rule by the judge. Despite this, the El Centro sector has still been carrying out operations way north of land border, including recently outside a home depot in Pomona. So this is CBP, not ICE, right? People are familiar with that distinction, but at least in the Eastern district, they can't be stopping people now without warrants. So that's a good thing from the courts, I guess. Those are, I know we've got a long episode today, those are the most important immigration

Starting point is 03:35:07 things that I've come up with this week. I'm sure something will happen between us recording this coming out, but yeah, that's what I've got for you. The last thing that we'll mention is that Mohsen Maroui, the US green card holder who was arrested by ICE at his citizenship interview, has been released from ICE custody as of April 30th by order of a Vermont judge. This is really the first piece of good news we've had in relation to Trump's crackdown on Palestinian protesters and student protests.

Starting point is 03:35:39 So yeah, Maroui's case will still continue, but he will not be in ICE custody for the duration of this case. And I think we saw in the Mahmoud Khalil case, the judge has ordered that New Jersey is a correct jurisdiction for that case to proceed. So that offers a possibility of the same, it's essentially the same charge that both of them have, right, or the same reasoning for trying to remove them. So hopefully we will see a similar result there. We'll be following up on both these stories as they progress,

Starting point is 03:36:09 but that does it for us today here at It Could Happen Here. We reported the news. We reported the news. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonedmedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Starting point is 03:36:41 You can now find sources for It Could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly I collect my roommates toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake Gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And the dream season is now complete.

Starting point is 03:37:56 The Golden State Warriors are the 2015 NBA champions. On the new limited podcast series Dub Dynasty, it's been 10 years since their shocking run to a championship. We examine the controversial move that made it possible. It's never a great conversation as a player when you hear that you're being benched. For the entire behind the scenes story of Golden State's incredible 10 year run, listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. video app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2020, a group of young women found themselves in an AI-fueled nightmare. Someone was posting photos. It was just me naked.

Starting point is 03:38:36 Well, not me, but me with someone else's body parts. This is Levittown, a new podcast from iHeart Podcasts, Bloomberg, and Kaleidoscope, about the rise of deepfake pornography and the battle to stop it. Listen to Levertown on Bloomberg's Big Take podcast. Find it on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Behind the Bastards - It Could Happen Here Weekly 180

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