It Could Happen Here Weekly 39
00:00Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations.In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests.It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse.And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns.But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them?He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen.Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeartRadio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.Christ is King! Christ is King! Christ is King! Christ is King! Christ is King! Christ is King! Christ is King!
01:05Your children should be home. Your kids aren't actually gay, you've just groomed them.You're a gloomer.Welcome to It Could Have Happened Here.Today we are talking about something that did happen just a few days agoAnd we'll be discussing its possible ramifications going forward and similar subsequent attacks that are most likely going to take placeThroughout this next month. I'm garrison Davis with me is chris. HelloHelloready ready to hear about a lot of threats of genocide and a whole bunch of
01:42Audio clips of fascistsYou know, okay. I got I got one episode where there was like aPretty clean win and like a good thing happened. And so now I'm I'm ready to go back to that's getting exterminatedThat's fine. This is so this episode is gonna be kind of I don't speak German styleI guess if we were to compare it to another one of our competitors in the fieldYeah, soHuh, I mean there's been a lot of threats against pride events over the course the past monthThere's we've we've pointed towards some in Idaho
02:17There has been some in Arizona. There has been lots in TexasBy the time this episode has dropped the gundaline event in Idaho would have already taken placeWe are recording that just just before on on on June 10thSo I'm I'm unsure of how that's gone at this point. Hopefully nothing horrible happenedYeah, but but but if everyone dies that that's why we're not talking about it because it hasn't happened yet. OhBut yeah, we're gonna be talking about an attack on a pride event in Dallas, Texas that happened on June 4thSo starting starting kind of closer to the lead up to this on May 30thThe conservative trend-setting libs of tick-tock who now has over 1.2 million followers on the Twitter account ran by Chao Reicheck
03:08They started a thread titled quote mega drag thread. They say it's innocentThey say it's about inclusion and acceptance. They say no one is trying to confuse corrupt or sexualized kidsThey lieIncreasingly many on the far right are targeting family-friendly drag events including drag time story events at libraries across the countrythe gundaline event in Idahowasprecursored by a whole bunch of attacks onDrag story events at the libraries inside Idaho and the very church gathering that they announced
03:46The event to oppose the pride on June 11ththat whole gathering at the church was about removing LGBTQ materials from libraries andTargeting any drag queens who do any types of story timesSo this this over 30 tweet long thread by libs of tick-tock contained a list of drag queen storyhour flyers with dates and locations andFamily-friendly or all ages drag events that had recently took place over upcoming for pride monthOne such event Reicheck posted about was a pride-themed family-friendly drag eventThat was to take place on Saturday, June 4th hosted at a gay venue in the progressive neighborhood of Dallas, Texas
04:31In their post lives of tick-tock included the date and location for the upcoming event as well as an unrelated picture of one of the dragPerformers wearing a skimpy outfitI think Reicheck just searched the internet for a picture of this one person wearing as revealing clothing as possible based on their entireInternet presence and like it's still not a nude photo. It's just like someone like like aSkimpy outfit, but anyway, you know, you're trying to be like this is what your kids are gonna see which means it's notBut you know, you know the thing you're trying to do the tweet was shared by a new far-right group called Protect Texas KidsWho had also declared that they were organizing a protest to oppose what they called a quote child grooming event?They tweeted out the address of the venue and called on people to join in on opposition to the family-friendly drag show
05:21The initial limbs of tick-tock tweet about the Dallas all-ages drag event raked up over a thousand retweets and thousands and thousands of likesLess than a week later, the anti-queer attacks moved from the online sphere to the outside physical world. I wonder if the mama bear instinct is gonna come out in three years when the mainstream Democrat party platformers they want to rape your kids.And they're all gonna think it's one big smug little joke these people by the way. Understand that there is a bigger difference between ten years ago and now than there would be between now and in five years when they're openly advocating for pedophilia.Like they've already started doing. You people are the symptom of a dying society and you know it.You're scaring children. Shut the fuck up. Shut the fuck up.That's John Doyle, a self-described Christian fascist standing outside the family-friendly drag event at 9 a.m. in the morning yelling through a megaphone at the families with kids lined up to get inside the brunch event.A crowd mostly in khaki shorts and button-ups surrounded the venue and chanted, Groomer, Groomer.As the group of men kept screaming at the families stuck outside waiting in line, kids just a few feet away covered their ears amidst the screams and megaphones.
06:40One person waved a Christian-dimensionist flag. A man holding a rosary shrieked verbal abuse at the children and parents.The fist of Christ will come down on you! Very soon! You're done with this! You're done with this! Groomer! Groomer! You disgust me!What was described as a, quote, protest, immediately materialized as a group of men and self-described Christian fascists who came to attack families at Pride just yelling abuse at the events attendees and staff,threatening people as they arrived and left, and creating an actually unsafe environment for children,along with a gaggle of far-right-grifting videographers who, quote, infiltrated the event to film kids without their consent to create viral propaganda.There was a very good article by Melissa Gira Grant, published a few days after the incident, titled, A Pizza Gate in Every City,with the subheading, quote, these conspiracy theories were once fringe, now they're being fueled by Republicans and driving far-right anti-LGBTQ violence.Now, I'm going to read a few quotes from this piece throughout our episode today, because the writer does a very good job tying the current grooming rhetoric to the pattern of escalating violence
08:02and conspiracism embraced by the right over the past few years.So, to quote the article, quote, from the idea that children inside this venue were being abused,and that such abuse was a plot by Democrats to the call to internet provocateurs to record their own evidence,as well as the false claims of child rescues made by those promoting these conspiracy theories,the attack on Mr. Mister, which was the venue that the strike event took place at,called to mind the same fears, if not the same threat of gun violence, as the assault on Comet Ping Pong in Washington DC in 2016.A man motivated by the Pizza Gate conspiracy theory arrived at the restaurant with a rifle to, quote, rescue children from the non-existent sex trafficking ring,supposedly orchestrated by prominent Democrats.
08:48Now, a little more than five years later, 25% of Republicans identify as believers of the Pizza Gate successor QAnon,and the far-rights capacity for street violence has grown.At the same time, where once most elected Republican officials would at least nominally distance themselves from Pizza Gate pushers out on the fringe,that wall has largely eroded.Across the country, GOP lawmakers have waged a legislative crusade targeting queer and trans kids,smearing opponents as groomers, language that rhymes with the pedophile claims that inspired the attack on Comet Ping Pong,and where once the targets of these conspiracy theories were largely confined to a select group of Democrat lawmakers and their allies,the fear-mongering, amplified by Fox News and prominent conservative social media accounts, is now targeting all LGBTQ people,
09:39from national figures to members of your local community.The stage is set for a Pizza Gate in any city.And just like Pizza Gate where cases of threats of violence escalated to the point of an attempted arson and a young white man storming the establishment,firing a rifle inside, the homophobic and transphobic violence that is advocated or physically committed is truly seen as righteously justified by those who do it.And even if those who promote it don't sincerely hold those like illogical beliefs, successful propagandists know how to effectively frame bigoted violence as a moral imperative,simply as a way to encourage attacks on their own ideological enemies.The far-right conservatives and fascists who made explicit threats of genocidal violence were not met unopposed.There was what seems to me a mix of more official security from the gay venue that usually functions as a bar,
10:43as well as community defense volunteers and anti-fascists who put their body in between the fascists and the families with children.Community members wore low-key, pride-infected block attire, black masks and rainbow bandanas, with some holding trans and queer pride flags,which can come in handy for blocking off unwanted persons.Not only did the community defense protect families and attendees, but also worked to protect the performers who are being followed after the event was over by fascists.The Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club did a stand-up job documenting the event as it happened,and also doing work after the fact to ID the people who were leading the homophobic attacks.I truly believe if there was less of a community defense effort, the day could have gone much, much uglier.And I think that's a part that's worth emphasizing.
11:37Everyone who showed up to oppose the fascists did an amazing job.I've looked at so much footage of this day from the fascists were filming to the footage that the John Brown Gun Club was putting out,and there were so many times where people with rainbow masks were physically preventing fascists from chasing down kids.There was barely enough of them, right? You would always want more community defenders there,but the ones who didn't show up deserve much gratitude for putting their bodies on the line.Eventually, police did show up and tried to keep some of the conservative protesters who were screaming groomer at children on one side of the street across from the venue.But even with the cops there, self-described fascists continued to chase families as they walked with their kids to their car,and anti-fascists and counter-demonstrators were the ones to block the homophobe's path to prevent them from further harassing kids and families,
12:38while the counter-demonstrators were yelling at the fascists to leave the kids alone.After the police did arrive, Christian fascist leader John Doyle talked about how police should, quote,go in there and put bullets in their heads. They should be rewarded for it. That's what the badge is for. And now I'm going to play a clip of him saying that.It's a little bit hard to hear, but here's my due diligence.So yeah, that is hearkening back to the very real history of police's willingness to enforce homophobic laws,something that these Christian conservatives and fascists want to bring back.And if you think some police wouldn't enforce such laws, then oh boy, I don't know what to tell you.That's their entire job is to enforce whatever the laws are. And lots of those cops, I'm sure, don't have great opinions on gay people.
13:44I've had conversations with people who are 16, 17, 18, who... I don't want to be too hard on them, but people who got their education of queer history on Tumblr,and they'll say things like, well, cis white gay men were never oppressed in the US.It's like, no, you could be just a cis white gay dude. And really like 15 years ago,it was pretty common for people to just get the shit beaten out of them on the street for being gay.And cops are participating in this, regular people participate in this, and this looks like what we're heading back to, but possibly even worse.If you look around the social media feed of many, many cops, as I do for funds sometimes,just like cops on their personal feeds, and if you look at who they follow, what right wing influencers they follow, what churches they attend,you can don't be fooled into thinking that cops will not enforce homophobic laws.
14:53Yeah, they love this shit.Anyway, one of their stated goals is to regress on gay rights and to have their version of a Christian hegemonic order enforced by the violence of law.And here is Doyle again saying as such at the event.It's going to be so fun when we take away all your rights.It's going to be so fun when we take away all of your rights.I'm going to read what he actually says there in case you could not hear it, quote, it's going to be so fun when we take away all of your rights, every single one of them.Let's now talk about some of the people and groups who organized this confrontation and the resulting propaganda piece put together by the right.So one of the main people was Kelly Newdirt. Newdirt, Newdirt, I think, I think.
15:49Yes.One of the people was Kelly Newdirt, one of the Christian fascist organizers responsible for setting up the Facebook group for the attack on the Pride event this past weekend.She's worked with groipers and proud boys in the past for her young conservative of Texas events at University of North Texas and is a self described quote based Christian fascist.Her words, not mine.She's also hosted a campus event with Jeff Younger, an anti trans Republican candidate for the Texas House of Representatives who came to prominence on the right for attempting to block his daughter's access to gender affirming health care and who ultimately failed on both accounts.Good, good for her.Yeah, Kelly Kelly's current project is a new anti trans hate group called Protect Texas kids who she's she calls herself the executive director of.But she's basically the main driving force behind.
16:50It was under the protect Texas kids banner that she organized the harassment attack on the all ages drag show, quoting from pizza gate in every city again quote with her new group.Neeter says that quote, we will host protests of clinics that do gender affirming care for minors and school districts slash teachers who teach LGBTQ propaganda and critical race theory.Protect Texas kids is a friendly sounding vehicle with which self avowed Christian fascists in Texas can go into LGBTQ community spaces armed with video and claims to be there to investigate.All of this expands on a now common playbook, produce local events antagonizing queer and trans people, then go on Fox News and Newsmax and other right wing media outlets to put the videos in front of an even broader audience, unquote.The other major figure is obviously John Doyle, the guy we've talked about a lot this episode so far and we've included many audio clips of him screaming horrible things at kids.He is the Christian fascist leader heard saying things like every single one of gay rights should be taken away and encouraging police to go in there and put a bullet in their heads.I guess the parents or drag performers.He has a large YouTube channel with over 300,000 subscribers.
18:14Don't don't worry Chris.It's going to get worse.Christian fascists led by both Kelly Newdart and John Doyle have been terrorizing the University of North Texas campus for months.On one occasion they brought Proud Boys, armed security and a technical pickup truck.Now, when I say technical, I mean like the military style vehicle, like it was a technical built onto a pickup truck.So basically a massive truck armed with pretty, pretty intense gun.That seems not legal somehow, but it's Texas.Oh, okay.
18:50It is absolutely legal.I'm going to play some audio from a University of North Texas campus event that took place last October, featuring Doyle and his crew of fascists.What is wrong with Christian fascism?Go ahead and get my face.I have a YouTube channel with 300,000 subscribers.I am a radicalizing the youth if you can do nothing about it.You guys better approve your path because when I say power, I think I can see you.I would play more audio, but a high-pitched whistle drowns out the rest of what he says,
19:39and I will not subject you to the audio of the whistle because it does a fantastic job of making the audio completely unlistable.So much so that very soon Doyle just like gave up talking because the whistle did a really good job trying to get him out.But for more background on Doyle, I'll quote from a pizza gate in every city again.John Doyle, who yelled about rape at children through a megaphone, has organized a stop the steal rally with Nick Fuentes,was a special guest at the White Nationalist America First PAC conference in 2022,and is the leader of a group titled the American Populist Union.He was in audience at a 2021 event billed as Hitler Youth Without the Hitler.Wait, so can I ask a question about this? I've heard about this event. Did they literally write that?
20:36Yes, it was called that by one of the organizers, Ariel Early, an 18-year-old white nationalist social media influencer,billed as a special guest at the Camping Retreat, saying,I always say these events are Hitler Youth Without the Hitler.And what do I mean by that? You have to get to the youth.They claim Gen Z might be the most conservative generation, but honestly, I'm not seeing it.I mean, I guess that's good news, but also...If you ignore the Hitler part, then yes.Yeah, well, maybe they'll follow their leader.
21:10Also, Kyle Rittenhouse says that he's a John Doyle fan, so...Ah, great.And we are back. I'm going to continue to quote from the Pizzagate in Every City article again.Given many existing media connections, videos from the event made by far-right content creators,some confronting attendees and performers, were widely picked up across right-wing social media,by people including Andy Know, Benny Johnson, and Pizzagate promoter Jack Sobiak,who shared a video of one drag performer and instructed his followers to contact the State's Department of Family and Protective Services.When some of these same videos made a two Tucker Carlson's show on Monday night,
21:50he introduced a segment by saying,Just another weekend in Weimar, selectively airing moments when adults yelled back at people like Doyle accusing them of abuse,or when other adults used their bodies to block men from forcing their way into the event.All of this was used to portray the people threatening the Pride event as the actual victims.Unquote. So, yeah, less than 48 hours after the All Ages Drag event had began,it was headlining on Tucker Carlson.Just another weekend in Weimar, on Saturday a nightclub in Dallas held an event calledDrag Your Kids to Pride at the event, little kids dance with drag queens and tip them with dollar bills.
22:32It was grotesque, sexualizing children always is, so there were a small number of brave protesters outside.One of them was our friend Alex Stein.He tried to get into the event because it was a public event, and so he was assaulted. Watch.The event on June 4th also attracted an assorted collection of far-right media personalities,or those who aspire to be.They themselves referred to their group of far-right videographers as the quote,Avengers of homophobes.Among which, as mentioned by Tucker, was aspiring comedian and small far-right commentator Alex Stein,
23:08who was prevented entry to the venue by event security and community defenders,or as Tucker would say, was assaulted.Here's a audio of that interaction.Also, I want to note that in the video, Alex Stein has a big old smirk on his face the entire time,and I think you can actually hear that through the way he talks.I just don't understand what's going on here.We're nine and three, we're asking to leave.Oh my gosh.
23:36They're denying me entry. They're being bigoted. They're being bigoted.They're not letting me in here. I can't believe they're not letting me in the game,but I thought you guys were in cruise suits, right?Hey.Look, I'm not allowed in here, but they let children in here dance.You guys don't think that's weird, right? You can dance with a bunch of children.Isn't that grooming?Look, the child group are on the left side. This is one of the child groups.
23:58Hey, alright, alright, here we go.Hey, read a lot of the stories. Read a lot of the stories.Some of these videographers did make it inside with their cameras,shooting videos that misrepresented the drag performances as threatening to childrenor acting in an inappropriate sexual manner,all while making threatening comments of their own online or outside in person.One who interrogated a drag performer captioned his video, quote,these groomers need to be exposed for what they are.
24:30A woman who shot some video from inside of the venue later tweeted, quote,this summer is slaying groomers summer.Two far right members of the self-described homophobic Avengers,who made it inside the event to film kids, were Taylor Hansen,who got a lot of notoriety after filming the Ashley Abbott shootingas he was participating in the storming of the Capitol,similar to how Elijah Shaffer was making the event seem like it was this big, heroic thing,and then getting a lot of press coverage off of his footage.
25:06Someone else who was going inside the event to film kids was Aldo Buziani.After the event, the little collection of self-described Christian fascistsand their propagandists got together on Elijah Shaffer's blaze media podcastto do a sort of round table report back.Now, Elijah Shaffer was not actually on that episode.John Doyle was filling in as the host, self-described Christian fascist John Doyle.But Shaffer brands himself as a classic, I'm going to say Christian fascist,because that's what his rhetoric means.
25:38Now, Shaffer himself doesn't use the word fascist,he does share son and rab memes on Twitter and his rhetoric is indistinguishable from Doyle's,who of course, Doyle does use the word fascist.And of course, Shaffer is totally fine with having Doyle fill in as him for host on his own show.Anyway, here is Doyle introducing people on that episode,including Turning Point USA representative Elizabeth Riley.We also have fellow e-girl Isabella Riley.And I want white confetti, please.
26:11She likes her confetti, how she likes her country.So anyway, tell me what you saw Aldo because you got there a little bit before I did.And now we all had this sort of like, you know, homophobic Avengers assemble kind of thingwhere everyone did their part.I knew that I probably couldn't get in.So I just thought that I would assemble my army of young men to go and confront these people.But Aldo and Isabella actually infiltrated the event and got the viral footagethat you've probably seen if you've been watching literally any news coverage of this event.
26:36That podcast can be found on YouTube and Apple podcasts.Just openly hosting content.That's hosted by a Christian fascist saying shit about wanting a white America.A half a million subscribers on YouTube.Just, yep.So this ecosystem of aspiring right-wing content creators is part of this wave of like20-something conservative influencers, like 20-something, I sound like age, like they're all like their mid-20s or something.But these conservative influencers that are trying to market like old school right-wing evangelical bigotry
27:13to young people as like a cool, trad counterculture using meme aesthetics.Fundamentally, these people are attention hounds.As they cover events like these on the ground, you can see them smirking the entire time.Even when people are acting hostile to them, like the spectacle is the point.If they're not posing an actual like active threat,what these far-right videographers hate the most is non-engagement, right?So if there's the ability to do non-engagement, that's what they don't like.The most annoyed these people get is when they're met with cold still silence,
27:52like in this case with Taylor Hansen.Can either of you guys give me any information on how you feel about what took place in here todayand about these counter protesters? What do you guys think?Why do you hide your face?Is it because you're committing crimes?Crimes against children?So they hide their face because they're too scared of being identified as pedophiles and groomers.You see this as a constant reoccurrence with Antifa and with left-wing anarchist groups
28:36is they'll hide their face because they think they're all tough and hard in big groups,but the minute that they're soloed out and are actually asked questions,they have nothing to say about their ideology, their beliefs,or about the fact that they are actually the fascists here in this situation.I'd really like to just get one word out of you, ma'am,because I mean, you just want to be so silent but you're so vehemently defending this.Do you have anything to say? One more chance.If they were actually concerned about children, they wouldn't be having little giggle fests
29:28while inside events like these, right?They call it a child grooming event and they're not acting like there's anything bad happening.You can say, oh, they're trying to play it cool because they're doing infiltration.No, they're just being chill.They're giggling and laughing and looking like,look at the silly gay people doing these things.I can't wait to use footage of this to boost my careerand misrepresent it to a wider audience.
29:53We're in this like post-irony world.In many aspects, the level of sincerity does not actually matter, right?All that's necessary is saying the lines from the script that the audience wants to hear.It's like algorithmically generated politics.You can talk about how victims of sexual abuse should themselves be locked upso they won't go on to abuse other people in the future.And even though you look at the camera at the end and give a knowing smirk,it doesn't matter because you're just saying the things that are going to get traction
30:23and you're saying the things that your misogynist audience wants to hear.Here's the Turning Point USA representative Isabel Riley on the Blaze Media podcastwho at the end of the clip does indeed give a very knowing look to camera and a little smirk.Should we lock up people that have had sexual trauma in their childhoodbecause they tend to become abusers in the future?Just a few other notes on this Blaze Media podcast.I listened to this whole podcast twice to get clips for my coverage hereand just to kind of get a sense of what they were doing.
30:59One of the speakers on the podcast blamed the recent mass shootingson the presence of nearby sex shops.Some of the videographers who were on the show went on to Alex Jones' show the next day.It was full of pretty bad homophobic rhetoric,but it's just so ever-present that it's hard to even selectively get certain clips of it.They were doing a lot of work to tie mental illness to gayness,saying that these two things are intrinsically linkedand that if we just locked up more mentally ill people in institutions,
31:34we wouldn't have as many gay people.I think the other interesting thing that I found to be really funny in the podcastis that for their first ad break,they were selling testosterone-boosting supplements.In this very anti-trans podcast,the first product they were selling was supplements to boost your natural male testosterone.It's just very funny because they're talking about how evil HRT isand how evil and irreversible it is.
32:11They're also selling things that are supposed to boost testosterone levels.We are in a post-irony world.Anyway, here's one more clip from the podcasttalking about how the bigoted community is so diverse.You'll notice too, our group was very diverse,which I think we made this point yesterday as well.The bigoted community is so accepting.All you have to be is also bigoted and you're allowed to hang out with us.
32:36We had this nice mob of well-dressed, handsome young guysto go confront these people because no one else would.That is enough of that.On to our final section of the day.Texas-based journalist Steven Monticellilater reported that same night of the drag event,incidents that police categorized as terroristic threats of an anti-homosexual nature,were reported by bar owners in the same neighborhood.
33:07After the event, the venue and gay bar released a media statementsaying that its weekly drag brunches are normally for guests who are 21 and over,but decided to host a special Pride Drag Brunch for all guests,including those who can't attend other drag showsbecause of the drinking age restrictionsand as a part to raise money for a local LGBTQ youth organization.Adding that it was, quote,more than happy to open our doors to celebrate Pride in a family-friendly, safe environment
33:36because we believe that everyone should have a space to be able to celebrate who they are.Unquote.I'm gonna read another quote from...I think this is our last quote from Pizzagate in Every City.Quote,By the next Monday, Texas Republican State Representative Brian Slaytoncited the Protect Texas Kids attack on the Dallas eventin his announcement to introduce, quote,
34:07a bill to ban drag shows in the presence of minors in Texas.Unquote.A Florida state representative pledged to follow suit.U.S. representatives Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Bobbert voiced their supportby then Protect Texas Kids had already moved on to a new target,an LGBTQ affirming church that was having a service next Sunday,and the group had already announced several more plans to protest LGBTQ spaces this month.What we are already seeing this Pride season is alarming,
34:41but it did not come out of nowhere.It is a continuation of campaigns targeting drag queen story hours.It was fed by Republican attacks on queer and trans kidsand state legislators across the country,and it is coordinated by people on the far rightwho have names and very specific movement affiliations.As these threats continue, as they generate yet more videos of confrontations,they may also give heft to the lie that supporting LGBTQ youth is grooming
35:11and that queer community spaces are commercial settings for child abuse.No Republican would say the Pizzagate shooter had a point,but now, simply based on videos of deliberate confrontations with kids at Pride events,they're happy to co-sign.Unquote.While makers won't be able to consider Slanton's proposal on a statewide ban of kids being around drag performancesuntil the 10th of January in 2023,which is when the next Texas legislative session kicks off.
35:43But if the No Drag Around Miners Log gets enacted,that could have many, many ramifications depending on enforcement.One possible scenario is not being allowed to have drag at Prideor people under the age of 18 just not being allowed to attend Pride, right?Because if you're having a Pride Pride and there's drag performers and there's kids there,now it's a crime, you're all going to jail.You could also just see this as an attempt by Texas to recriminalize cross-dressing.Because by and large, drag shows and events are usually taking place at 21 and up bars, right?
36:18Generally, unless it's the drag time, story time stuff,drag's not around kids super often, right?Including very non-sexual drag.Because of how laws work around bars, usually those things don't have much crossover.But that's not what they're targeting, though, right?They just don't want gay people or men in dresses to be around kids, right?If you're seen cross-dressing while a child is nearby, now that's a drag show, you're going to jail.And if you think a ban on, quote, drag in front of children won't be applied to just trans people existing in public,
36:56then again, I don't know what to tell you.Because depending on how they define what drag is, like, they're not limiting this to, like, drag shows.They're talking about men in dresses.Like, that's what it's going to be, because they're targeting library events.They're targeting events in public.It's not about, like, drag shows with tickets and stuff.It's about men wearing dresses.Or, you know, in the case of trans people, just existing.
37:24Here's the Helmholtz Public Avengers talking about the introduced legislation after their little propaganda campaign.But, wow, the guys, we really did, and I'm not trying to pet ourselves in the back, but what's Brian Slayton with the legislation he's trying to put throughexposing these people, we really did take a W.In the culture battle, we didn't win the culture war yet.I don't think I've ever seen such an, I mean, an after-effect of an event.I mean, in positivity for us.I mean, I don't think I've ever seen, you know, a bunch of journalists go and expose an event like this and then have actual legislation drafted almost immediately after.I think this is a new sphere that we're entering in, and I think, I mean, we got a freaking role with it.
38:04Yeah, I really hope that the momentum is maintained.To close off, I'm going to riff off a point made by Steven Monticelli.At what point will become clear to those in media who run quotes or use selective footage from these people that intentionally obscure the extreme nature of their beliefs?Right?These are not, like, simple economic conservatives.However, if contemporary mainstream conservatives are willing to accept this sort of politics in their movement, then it's the case that mainstream conservatism in America has become almost indistinguishable from fascism.Much of the coverage of the protest of this pride event gives credibility to the fascist side, basically endorsing their homophobic framing, positioning the drag performers as somehow inherently sexual for wearing fem outfits and doing dances that are, in reality, more conservative than your basic high school cheerleading team.Mainstream media and pundits and even some leftist ones, quote-unquote leftist pundits, fell for the bait and treated kids playing musical chairs with people in drag and giving the performers cash from their parents as more inappropriate than the mob of open fascists hurling verbal abuse at kids and chasing them down as they head to their cars.
39:25So that is my little write-up on what has happened in Dallas last week.They are, the Protect Texas Kids group is planning more and more events in Texas for Pride Month.It's, they're targeting not just events with kids, they're also targeting 21 and up, drag brunches, they're targeting churches, they're doing the bit, right? They're doing the thing.And people really fell for the bait on this one.People really did. If I've seen all of the videos from the events, there's nothing inherently sexual about these people's style of dancing.There's nothing inherently sexual about their outfits, right? Playing with gender isn't inherently sexual. It's playing with gender.These are two different things. But yeah, a lot of people fell for the bit. A lot of people took the bait, were sharing photos and being like, look at this, how can you defend this?They're like, defend what? It's people dancing. You would see it's, it's, the dances are not like, they're not about sex. They're not imitating sex acts. It's just, it's fun and chill.
40:47People got really mad that there was, there was a sign at the, at the venue that was in innuendo. And there's a ice cream shop, like a block away from the venue with the very same sign.They're not actually mad about that. Like, that's not what they're actually mad about, because you can walk down the street and look at so many, so many things that are innuendos.If you want, if you watch a Pixar movie, right, there will, there will be innuendos. That's not what they're talking about. They're talking about gay people being around kids. And I would like for people to stop falling for the bait.Anyway, I'm going, we're going to be doing another episode on the city of hate on the homophobic stuff in Dallas later, later this week, and we're going to be talking about steadfast church.I'm still writing that episode at the moment, but I'm planning to put that out later this week as well. And depending how the gondoline event went in Idaho and the various other things, I'm sure we'll be talking more about this type of stuff as, as pride goes on.So yeah, Chris, any thoughts on the word vomit I just gave for the past 40 minutes?You know, I mostly just like, I don't know, it's it's we've somehow managed to create a version of like the like worst at parts of like the queer bashing 2000s, but like even worse because now there's an even larger media cycle around it.And like, I think it's worth mentioning that like one of the ways that stuff ended was that like a lot of people, most of whom were like, like, cis and straight, right?
42:17Like people, a bunch of people who weren't queer, were just like literally fuck this and started attacking people back.And, you know, you see this in working class neighborhoods, right? Like there'd be a period of time where you have these evangelical churches who are just, you know, like openly insetting attacks on people until they got the shit beat out of them.By a bunch of working class kids. And that's when that shit stopped. And unless we fucking fight these people, they're going to keep doing this until people start getting murdered.And I guess a more positive thing to end on would be saying big thank you to everyone who showed up to physically oppose this.When I was listening to the Homophobic Avengers podcast, John Doyle said that there was a few points where he was scared.There were some people who, some people wearing like pride bandanas and stuff who had handguns.And he did not, John Doyle did not like that. At one point he talked about how he was heading to his car.And there was, and the counter, the counter demonstrators were following him to make sure he was actually going to leave.
43:21And he saw that some of the people were carrying and he freaked out. He screamed for police and he said that these people were threatening to shoot him.Which is mean just an attempt to get police to shoot the counter demonstrators, right?Like it's just John Doyle screaming, these people have guns. They're trying to shoot me, right?Even though they weren't even holding their guns. They were just having guns.But like these people can be scared. And again, no one was even violent against John Doyle.That was just people who were, who were carrying, standing near him.And I just big thank you to everybody who showed up to try to prevent these fascists from chasing down these kids from hurling abuse at these kids.I would recommend you follow the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club on Twitter. They did a really good job documenting this.
44:20And then for the stuff in Idaho, you can follow readout anti-fascists.Those would be the two, the two people I say to follow on Twitter right now for tracking these attacks on pride in Texas and inside Idaho.I guess the last thing I would say is it's important to remember that unlike a lot of the periods in queer history, these people are actually a minority.And they're trying to regress, right? We've already got to this point. They're trying to pull it back. This is kind of a new thing.Yeah, but it's like, unlike the fucking 70s, we are actually the silent majority here.And if enough people fucking show up and just like, these people need to be framed as, excuse my, I guess, semi ableist language here.But like, I deal with mental health issues of my own, but like these people need to be framed as wackos, right?These people need to be framed as fringe. These people need to be framed as crazy extremists.
45:26They need to be belittled. They need to be put down. They need to be viewed as pathetic, as scared, right?That's the way to do successful propaganda framing because they need to stay outside the majority, right?They need to be othered. That's the way to win this, right? That's the thing they always try to do, right?They always try to frame gay people as being severely mentally ill at the time, right? That's all what they try to do.And because enough of progress has happened, we just need to defend the line that is already drawn because like I said before, right?These people are not regular economic conservatives, right?But if mainstream conservatism is going to continue to accept this politics in their movement, then mainstream conservatism will be the same as fascism, right?So you need to point at the people, like John Doyle, point at the people who call themselves Christian fascists and be so demeaning to them
46:27and so making them feel so separate from every part of regular social lifebecause their whole goal is to integrate themselves into the larger conservative movement,integrate themselves into larger American politics, and that can't happen.Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast where you all keep telling me that we keep doing depressing episodesand we never do any episodes that aren't doomerisms, so today this is a podcast about how you can find the people who are making your life really badand make bad things happen to them instead.And with me to talk about how this has been done and also can be done is Janet Yu,who is a tenant organizer with the Chinatown community for equitable development in LA,
47:25and Anayi, who is another tenant organizer and leader at Northside Villa.Anayi Janus, thank you so much for joining us.Thank you, yeah, and it's Hillside Villa.Hillside Villa, sorry.No worries.This is what happens when I have MRI brain.I guess, okay, so the first thing I want to sort of walk through is basically,can you describe the when you all had a couple of weeks ago?
47:51Yeah, I can go ahead and start and then Anayi, if you want to fill in at all.So a couple of weeks ago, we were able to successfully push our city council to approve a loanto acquire Hillside Villa from Slumlord Tombots.And so just to make it clear, this isn't the end of the fight.We have not fully expropriated Tombots at the moment, but this is a huge victory and commitmentfrom the city to take the building from him.So it was really, really exciting for all of us.I guess one thing I want to clarify from the outset is that a lot of the reporting about it seemed like,
48:31a lot of the reporting about it was saying that the city had voted to use eminent domain,and they have not done that, which is my understanding.Yeah, yeah, so to clarify that part two, the motion that was passed,it does include that eminent domain will be used if the landlord does not willingly sell,which he most likely will not, of course.He's a landlord.Yeah, exactly.So he's not going to willingly sell his building.
48:56It does include that it will be used and is part of the pathway,but it does not specifically pass the eminent domain piece.So that will be something that we will probably have to organize around.Yeah.And if I'm understanding correctly, that requires a second vote, right?Yeah.But I guess, okay, first off also, congratulations, this rules.This is really exciting.
49:24Thank you.Yeah.And I guess the second thing I wanted to ask about was how this organizing process startedand how are you able to do this?Because this is a rare massive W.Yeah.Yeah.So this has been a three-year struggle and I can give a little bit of context around
49:48how it got started and then maybe Anna, you can take it from there.So basically, Healthside Via is part of a massive amount of buildings that were built in the 80susing different kinds of federal and state subsidies.And basically, yeah, it was subsidies that were used to fund private developers to keepbuildings affordable for a temporary period of time.So using affordable housing covenants.And so Healthside's covenant expired in 2019 after 30 years of being kept affordable for the tenants.And as soon as that happened, the landlord, of course, tried to increase the rent to market rate.
50:36So folks were receiving up to 200% rent increases.Yeah.So to actually talk about what those numbers are, people who are paying $800 for rent arenow being asked to pay like $2,500.So that's a de facto eviction, right?And as soon as that happened, there's actually this like origin story that I really love is thatone of our tenant leaders, Leslie, who's bilingual like Spanish and English speaker,she came up to a tenant who is a monolingual Cantonese speaker,
51:12held up one of the rent increases, ripped it to shreds.And Benson, our Cantonese tenant leader, just said, okay.And that's like one of the origin stories that really just shows like how,yeah, like oppositional our tenants were from the beginning.And then what happened was that another tenant leader, Luisa, who actually has since passed away due to COVID,she actually called like all the news stations and LA just blew this the fuck up.And yeah, and then that's how organizers kind of got involved.Maybe you can share your personal experience of going through all of this.
51:53Yeah, for sure.So about right a little before the association was started at Hillside Villa.We had been living here for about seven years and at that time.So I was working with my mom at the time and we went out in the morning for work.We came back around the afternoon to find that we couldn't get into our apartment.Our keys were actually they weren't going into the lock.So we went to the manager's office and asked them like why our key wasn't working.So they sent management up to our our floor and they told us that we had been evicted and that we couldn't like go back in.
52:44That we couldn't go back into our apartment.So just just within that one that one morning, you know, our whole pretty much our whole life was like flipped upside down.They told us that they actually worked unfortunately with them.And I think this is a very common thing is that landlords work directly with the sheriff's department.So the sheriff department came and switched out our lock.So we were pretty much uprooted that day.We had to figure out like what to do.We were all separated like that day.
53:31We all, you know, my sister went to her friend's house.My mom had to go rent a hotel to stay with her husband and then I went to my partner's house.So that lasted about two to three days.And in those two to three days, we were personally I started looking up tenant laws, tenant rights, and we found thanks to a friend.She recommended the eviction defense network who provides free lawyers for tenants facing eviction in LA.So they paired us up with a lawyer and they found that the eviction had actually been an illegal eviction.And then we also we also had like the paperwork to show that that it was an illegal eviction.So we threatened to sue the landlord.
54:26And because of that, he dropped the case and led us back in to our apartment after like three or four days or something like that from what I can remember.But in those days, it was it was really enraging, obviously, like who wouldn't be like super pissed off at this.Like it would boil your blood, you know, and it did.And that's one of the things that like kind of made me very much so more involved in like tenant rights and and organizing.And then also like just to throw this in a little more detail.When we were locked out, they actually locked our animals in the apartment.So we couldn't even get our dogs right away.Oh, my God, did they like were they OK?
55:25Like were you able to like was anyone feeding them like they weren't there all three days.I think we were we had to like really like push for them to open up the apartment so that we can get them like the day of.But then like we couldn't just like grab all our things, including like medication.That was like Jesus for my mom's husband who has diabetes and whatnot.So I think that was like the first time we acted as a family to like not let someone pretty much bully and harass us into a forced eviction that was completely illegal.And that's within that time, it was also happening to all the tenants around us.I mean, there was the word was going all over the apartment.I mean, you you could see management was doing cash for keys, which is also an illegal tactic for landlords to do.
56:33And they were trying what that is.Sorry.Yeah.So cash for keys.It's probably going to be like a rough definition of what it is.But it's when when a landlord offers a certain amount of money in order for you to give up your apartment.And this could be a couple thousand, 10,000, 20,000, sometimes way less than that.So that was a tactic that he was trying to use to evict people from our apartment so that he could remodel and then move it up to like market rate and get pretty much all of our community out of this apartment, which was an affordable apartment.
57:20It worked for a lot of some tenants did end up doing that.A lot of people didn't want to fight back, but the ones that did started the association.And there is also a lot of like language barriers with the tenants, some that only spoke Spanish and didn't understand what was happening.They were trying to get people to sign contracts for for the increase of the rent.Yeah, so that was my experience here to begin with.And and why we decided to fight back and not allow this to to happen to our family, but also like our community here, who are also experiencing the same thing, you know, it wasn't just an ice.I say this all the time, it felt like an isolated situation at the time, but it on the like broader perspective, it was not an isolated thing.And that's what brought our community together.
58:27There's a really powerful be incredibly enraging. And yeah, there's a lot of really interesting things there like one, obviously the cops doing the sheriffs, like helping them do the illegal eviction is just incredibly on the nose.And what I think is really interesting about the way that like, I mean, OK, the way the law only exists for rich people, if you can like throw it into their faces and make it embarrassing enough that like the statehas to enforce it.So I read a lot of media coverage of this and not a single person who who covered the story that that that I saw from these articles mentioned that the cash for keys is illegal.A lot of the articles mention it, but they don't they don't they don't mention that like you legally can't do this.And so yeah, I think that's a that that's I don't know, I guess it goes to show that like even among the press, like whose job it is to do this.There's there's such like there's such little knowledge of what what what practices aren't aren't aren't allowed.And that, yeah, I mean, I think as you're talking about like that, that that's one of the they're they're relying like in order to do this, landlords are like, yeah, they're relying on people not knowing their rights to relying on being able to trick people.
59:44They're relying on just straight up handing people stuff they can't read and forcing them to sign it, which I don't know.But the thing that reminds me of is like the Spanish conquistadors showing up and then really like asking people to convert to Christianity in Spanish language, they didn't speak and then shooting them when they didn't do it.It's like, yeah, that's a fitting analogy, honestly.Yeah, it's a new form of colonization.Yeah.And what one that we're, you know, resisting.Yeah, that was one of the other things I wanted to talk about in terms of resisting this kind of stuff is, yeah, what was it like dealing with the kind of language barriers that you get here?What do you have?
01:00:31I don't know, like, I mean, you've mentioned like at least three languages that people are speaking.There's probably more because that's just that's how working class communities work.Yeah, I feel like that's been such a central part of our fight is language justice and the tenant meetings that we've had every single week for the past three years.So that's like about 150 meetings, every single one of them has included some form of translation.So, yeah, we've had a lot of support from folks from Union de Vecinos, organizers there have gear where we can do like simultaneous translation.Yeah, so if you go to one of our meetings, it's folks who, if they're a monolingual Spanish or English speakers, they're having a headset on where we then have someone who's offering simultaneous translation.And then since we have fewer Cantonese or Mandarin speakers, we'll also have organizers on the side doing consecutive translation for them.So our meetings are run in like usually three, if not more languages.
01:01:41That's awesome.And I guess it leads into another question that I had, which was, so how did I think from my understanding this one of the parts of the story is like,people who people who'd been doing established tenant organizing, like getting getting involved with this struggle and I wanted to, I guess, talk about how that happens.And yeah.Yeah, yeah, so I think, because that original tenant Louisa like really blew this story up, different orgs heard about it and eventually,Latu, so the LA Tenenzenian, and then CCED, the org that I'm in, we heard about it and got involved long term.And even with that, like I'm a relatively new organizer, I only started volunteering with CCED a couple years ago.So it's really been like one of my first site fights we like to call them.
01:02:40But there are other folks who have had more, a bit more experience with different buildings in LA as well.But I think what's important to emphasize is that this fight has really been tenant led.And even though we have like these kind of outside organizers, it's always been the tenants demands and the tenants interests first.Yeah, it seems, I mean, you know, from your descriptions of like people showing up with translation equipment.Yeah, it seems like a really good way to do this kind of stuff, which is you show up and you give help to people.But it's, you know, it's them doing the organizing, which, I don't know, it reminds me a lot of like, I mean,if my experience in union organizing stuff, which is like, yeah, no, it's some, yeah, like you have people who have experience with stuffand they come in and their job is to like help the people who are actually trying to organize the place.
01:03:36Yeah, exactly, exactly. The people who are like actually directly impacted.Yeah, I feel like our role has really just been facilitating offering like the technical support, more of that stuff.But and I think you can really talk about how so much of this fight has really been building the tenants powerand becoming more and more like militant and radical and just the tenants like, yeah, really just like feeling their own fire.Hell yeah.Yeah, so we are like super duper grateful for the organizers that have come out for the last three years or however long they've decided toor have joined the association to help. And a lot of the tenants always, always like give thanks.And they're super appreciative of the organizers, but sometimes they don't give themselves the credit either.
01:04:36They think it's only like they think the organizers, which is obviously like super important and we're super grateful,but they don't realize that they're a huge part of the fight.For example, actually, my mom has been a part of the association for longer than I have.I've only been organizing for about, well, not only a year and a half,but she's actually been in the organization for three years because not only because she needed the support and the organizers really helped toto guide her to like learn to use her voice for for the outcome that we all want to see.And a lot of the tenants are are women, they're elders, you know, third generation elders.So they're very strong people. They a lot of like the elder like, like, I guess, Latina, I don't know how I feel about that term,
01:06:00but, you know, women are our natural leaders.And with the help of the organizers, they really just helped to to help them to, you know, use their voice and to empower them to do what they can naturally do,which is speak up and ask for what they want.So, yeah, my mom has, you know, learned over the last three years how to talk in front of politicians, how to communicate the process and the struggle that we've all been enduring,but to also demand what we rightfully deserve, which is housing, safe housing, and for politicians to do their job, which is to represent, as they should be, the community that they are working forand not, and, you know, not to beg them to do things, but to demand that they take action in the way that we have taken action much more than than any politician has in the last three years.It was up to the tenants and it still is. And thanks to them, we have gotten as far as we have.That was those, yeah, really well said. And I want to, I guess, shift a little bit into talking about, like, what specifically y'all were doing?
01:07:34Because I guess, I guess both that is like, how did you actually do this? And then how can other people sort of like, how can other people replicate it?Yeah, I don't know that we necessarily have, like, a model that other people can apply because I think reflecting about this whole fight, it was such a, like, just dynamic campaign where, at first, when it started, folks were kind of using more, you know, like, legal tactics,just, like, looking for errors in the rent increases that bots would hand out. And this would, you know, lead to being able to stall the rent hikes for months at a time.But then that obviously wasn't enough. So then people started escalating and eventually, like, putting pressure to get this on the radar of our districts, like, City Councilperson, Gil Cedillo.And eventually, through that, they were able to get Cedillo to make a deal with the landlord to extend the covenant and have his, like, loans be, his debt be forgiven.But the landlord just, like, reneged on that deal, right? So.Yeah, classic landlord behavior.Yeah, yeah. So then I think it's through those experiences that the tenants really learned, like, okay, it's like this politician's not going to save us. So then I think our fight became, like, more and more militant.
01:09:08So just directly going to the landlord's Malibu villa and shouting, like, fuck you. And, you know, just like, yeah, just like those direct confrontations. And then even Cedillo himself has not been, you know,this friendly relationship where we're thanking him for putting our putting our story into City Council. It's been extremely confrontational and oppositional the entire time.And I think thinking about what got us this recent win, it was, as it has been this whole fight, direct action, because we ended up the first day that City Council opened up to the public again.A group of us went in, kind of like, slid our way through security and went to his office. And surprisingly, he opened the door.And it was him and not a staffer. And of course, he saw it was us. He immediately tried to close the door. And one of our amazing tenant leaders, Rosario, who's, yeah, this elder Latino woman, she stuck her foot in the door and refused to let him close it.Yeah. And because of that, we were able to just like directly confront him, like, where the fuck have you been? It's been three years. And you haven't seen this through, like you said, you were going to.And we got all that, you know, recorded video evidence of him, just, yeah, fumbling around. And he sent the cops on us, of course.And, yeah, I think that was such a great action, because all of the, we call them like the mujeres, so the Latino women who have been leading the fight.
01:10:53They were just so defiant towards the cops, not scared at all, and just, you know, standing their ground and that they're just defending, you know, their human right to housing.And a week after that confrontational action, we got this, this city council motion passed. So, you know, I think it from our experience, trying to go through the nice way and like, you know, doing traditional lobbying,trying to schedule meetings and like texting, calling all of that. Things didn't happen for years. And then once we did more and more militant actions, things happened really quickly.Another thing I'd like to add on to that, that I actually heard was something that not a lot of other associations that are fighting for their housing do often was to bring the community together.I mean, really coming together. I mean, we're meeting every week for the last three years. And even during the pandemic, we weren't in person. We actually were on Zoom for a really long time.That's one of the biggest things was the consistency that we all pushed through, even during the pandemic, from the beginning was meeting every single week, and some other organizers also meet more than once a week, you know, we're meeting multiple times a week to kind of talkover like the fine detail of, you know, the next steps, but definitely consistency has been one of the biggest things in the last three years that has gotten us where we are today.Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I know I keep going back to this because this is the sort of, well, I mean, I guess I did some tenant organizing, but this is the thing that I know now is like, yeah, it reminds me a lot of just like the way that Union campaigns that like work run of just
01:13:01you have to keep, you have to keep getting people together to do the thing.Yeah, most definitely.I don't know, have you all seen like, like, how did that change like your relationship with just like the other people in the building?I'll give you an example from like my mom. I think for her it's been changed a little more drastically than it has for me because a lot of the tenants here are a little older.So before the association was started, she she's kind of like a person that keeps to herself a lot, you know.But since that, since the association, she's actually made like so many friends here now, like, and she's actually made like a best friend here, one of our neighbors and they like, yes, and they've become like really good friends.They even go, you know, have breakfast together, like almost multiple times a week.The other day I saw them like, I saw my mom's best friend Adelita or Adela giving her some sugar and I was like, oh, I should have gotten a picture of that.
01:14:19That's, you know, that's so cute, like posted it on like Instagram so that, you know, like, everyone knows like what it looks like when community comes together.It's, it's the small things like that.But I think it has made some, you know, made us gain like trust with the neighbors that have been consistent and see the same kind of vision that we like have to keep this building affordable.And yeah, not everyone, not all the tenants here have been supportive of our fight.Some, you know, participated for a few months and then immediately gave up.One of the things that that my family has done is to keep fighting, even for the ones that don't want to show up or don't want to do the work, which is hard work, that we're not just doing it for ourselves, but we're doing it for, for everyone,whether they're supportive or not, you know, this is going to benefit them and it's going to benefit the whole community.And hopefully the city, the whole city in the future.
01:15:51Yeah.I don't know.It's something I've definitely seen with organizing is that like, yeah, like just living in this world can be really isolating.And I don't know, like, I've lived in a lot of places where it's just like, yeah, like, I have no idea who any like, literally who anyone who lives around me is like, like, there's, there'll be like the one person you see at three in the morning coming back to their apartment.And it's like, oh, I vaguely remember this person.But like, yeah, like, I think, I don't know, just this, this being something that just on a broad level, not just about like, I mean, you know, is it like, this is something that's a solution to both.Like an immediate fight.And then also the sort of like, broader, just, I don't know, like nightmare is isolation that everyone's like, not everyone, but like, is is a huge part of a lot of our lives now.
01:16:47I don't know that struck me, I guess.Yeah, yeah, I feel like this just makes me think of to celebrate the recent when we had this party at hillside just last week.And, you know, it was like Pollock style, everyone brought their own food.Someone had a connection with like a mariachi band, so we had mariachi playing.One of the tenants owns a food truck and just wanted to cook for the community. So she's whipping up these like amazing tacos and bacon hot dogs.And then someone had brought this pinata of the landlord and people were just like, fucking destroying it.Like, one of the tenants was just like fist fighting it and cracking it open. The kids were just like grabbing as much candy as they could from this broken Tom Potts pinata.And like, I felt like that was just like exemplifies the sense of community that there is not hillside.
01:17:49And I think as Ana was talking about those personal connections have been so key to keeping this fight going for three years because it's hard.It's so hard to keep showing up. And it's those personal connections that keep you coming.Yeah, most definitely it's almost like a support system that like my mom and like some of the neighbors have created like other Lita or one of our second generation tenants Leslie, you know, she's, they can confide with one another.They can vent with one another. And yeah, yeah, so they've definitely like created strong bonds. And I think that's one of the reasons why they keep showing up, you know, it's it's women supporting women.And, you know, they're the protectors of the family, they're the nurturers. And that's what my mom taught me. So it's why definitely one of the reasons why I continue to fight for hillside to keep the housing not only for my mom because I'm like her protector and she'smine, but we're also like here to protect the community from from harassment or from literal bullying.Yeah.So I guess looking forward, I think at the beginning of the review said yeah, it looks like there's going to be another fight over sort of forcing forcing the city to actually use eminent domain.
01:19:36Yeah, do you have? Well, okay, I don't know if you can talk about your plans for that.Yeah, I guess two things one, if people want to support what y'all are doing and you know put pressure on the city, what are the best ways for them to do that?Yeah, I think just following our socials and staying updated about the fight and any like action items that we put out is a great way to support and just amplifying the struggle.Yeah, in terms of our specific strategy for holding the city accountable.We actually haven't gotten super into the weeds of it yet because we are just taking a break for a while to celebrate this win and kind of have folks get perspective.I think our view is that because the city has now approved the funds to make this happen, that yeah, that there shouldn't be any barriers to them seeing it completely through.Yeah, I think we can maybe apprehend some ideological barriers because actually using eminent domain to expropriate a landlord is not something that's been done before.But yeah, we'll see what happens.
01:21:11Yeah, I mean, if they can displace tenants with eminent domain, they can use it to keep tenants in their homes.Exactly.I guess the other question I have with that is, what is, okay, so like say like, I don't know, a miracle occurs and like your landlord is visited by like three ghosts at night who like show him increasingly horrible features and he decides to sell it to the city.What is the like, what is the city owning the building look like?Yeah, I can start with that and then I can chime in but I think the vision of the tenants has always been collective stewardship and tenant ownership of the building.So the fight definitely does not stop at the city taking the building, but there will also be a push for actual tenant stewardship of the building too.Yeah, and I think the exact structures of that aren't so clear yet. There's still a lot of like discussions and work to be done around that.But yeah, and the conversations that we've had with folks from the housing authority, which is going to be the agency that's actually purchasing the building, they have expressed openness to us actually
01:22:33having another nonprofit takeover and eventually building towards like a co-op kind of structure.That'd be really cool. Yeah, I know I've heard a lot of talk among, well, I think some people have done it in Detroit about things like community land trusts as a way to have tenants actually like control their buildings.Yeah, yeah, that's definitely been part of the discussion.So that's awesome because, yeah, this is a much better solution than the state is now your landlord.Exactly, yeah.Yeah, so that's what we hope for in the future. Like Janice said, we still have a lot to work through and this isn't done, obviously.We wouldn't, like you said, want the state to be landlords here. They wouldn't be the best landlords.But yeah, yeah, we are, like Janice said, taking a pause and we will reconvene to plan out future steps to take.
01:23:45But this was a really, really great win. It was such a relief off of so many people's back and something we've been fighting for over three, three and a half years now.So it's good to finally get somewhat of positive news and it's been such an emotional journey for the last three years.I mean, that doesn't even justify how much of an emotional rollercoaster it has been for a lot of these tenants or for a lot of our families here.When we got the news, everyone broke out in tears and joy and everyone was so surprised.I mean, I couldn't help myself but to like cry and smile and ugly cry some more for like the whole day.We're hoping for the process to be somewhat smoother now that we've done a large portion of the fight.But yeah, we're still at the tail end of things.Yeah, so where can people find y'all's organizations and groups and stuff to go follow them or help them in places?
01:25:22For CCUD, which does post a lot of Hillside content, I think all of our socials are just at CCUD LA.And then for Hillside, I think there's different handles for all the different platforms, unfortunately, but if folks just look up Hillside Via or Hillside Tenants, they should be able to find it.And if you just send me the social media handles, you can put them in the description.Yeah, yeah, for sure.Yeah, well, thank you both so much for talking to us. This was awesome. I'm so happy for y'all. This is great.Thank you. Yeah, thanks for listening.Yeah, this has been huge.Yeah, and I guess for everyone out there, you too can start taking back your cities and yeah, with any luck and with a lot of struggle, this is going to be the first of many.
01:26:22Yeah, fuck landlords. We can beat them.Hell yeah, fuck them.Yeah, we got this. Hell yeah.Communities first. Landlording is not a job.We're here to take it back.Hell yeah.Oh, boy, it could happen here. The podcast about it and happening and could Chris, take us away.I'm taking it away.
01:27:09Oh, boy, I think I promised to.So this is this has been a fun week so far. We're all kind of sitting through that in that awkward period where we know the Supreme Court is about to do some shit with Roe v Wade and that that's going to light a whole bunch of stuff on fire.And so we're all waiting for that and we're all waiting for the big Pride Month demonstrations in the wake of a shitload of threats from the right.And kind of in that awkward interstitle period, we got this this little burst this weekend of happiness of just pure joy.So obviously we had covered a little earlier the gundaline rally in Corderline, Idaho, which was a right wing kind of counter rally to Corderline's regular local pride rally.And, you know, it was a an event that the the the the the PR for ahead of time was deeply unsettling or a lot of like threats and talk about, you know, let the fight start here and all that stuff.A lot of people were worried about a massacre, including us, because when you have a bunch of right wingers saying that anyone queer is grooming kids and it's time to shoot them, it's reasonable to be worried about a massacre.Now what we did see on the day and this is something you'll note a lot of times when you get the events where there's a lot of threats around them.
01:28:37That's what kind of provokes enough attention and enough of a state response that that it's not where people try to shit, you know, it's often kind of at the edges of events or the events that people don't take seriously enough ahead of time thatlike things go to shit, you know, Charlottesville would be a great example because prior to Charlottesville, there was a lot of like discussion about how big it was going to be in the city, you know, did not really take it seriously.There were a number of I and this is one of the things that's frustrating the fucking mayor of Charlottesville is after what happened in Corderline and stuff has been like on the news talking to people about how to how to avoid demonstrations going badly and shit,which like, you know, he received a lot of warnings from anti fascists about how many people with, you know, pending violent charges were going to be at Unite the right in Charlottesville and how many threats were going on, it was kind of ignored.And as a result, it got really fucking ugly, because, you know, you had smaller numbers is on the on the first night, you know, when people got surrounded by that torch lit mob, you had smaller numbers of anti fascists outnumbered by fascists andand no real counter to them until, you know, the next day and obviously that's the day that that that James Alex Fields drove a car into a crowd.And that kind of starts our story today because the thing that was the bright ray of sunlight in the midst of what has been a pretty rough couple of weeks news wise was 31 members of the hate group Patriot Front getting arrested in Corderline, Idaho jammed into the back of a UHall. The story of Patriot Front and the story of how that that beautiful moment happened starts in Charlottesville in 2017.
01:30:25Actually, it starts significantly before that in Texas, but the group that becomes Patriot Front starts as a group called Vanguard America.And Vanguard America is one of the groups that is responsible for kind of carrying out the Unite the right rally in Charlottesville.Wait, this is this is a different group than American Vanguard, right?Wait, let me double check here, because sorry, they all use such similar names.Yeah.I if I'm not mistaken, there is an American Vanguard.There's also the American Vanguard Corporation.No, no, no, I think it's American Guard. American Guard is the group that is kind of more coming out of the KKK's sphere of orbit.
01:31:12Some of them are former Klansmen.That's another story for another day.So you've got Vanguard America.They're one of the groups kind of behind bringing a lot of people, a lot of fascists shouldn't call them people to Charlottesville in 2017.James Alex Field is marching with them and carrying one of their shields earlier in the day before he carries out his car attack.And as a result of the bad press that him murdering a woman and maiming a bunch of people with his car in a terrorist attack brings down the leader of Vanguard America.Thomas Rousseau splits off like kind of in Vanguard America and spins it off into Patriot Front, which is less explicitly just as fascist, but less branded as fascist, more kind of branded in Americana.They all of their PR and all of their like images look like rejected stills from a BioShock game.
01:32:12Yeah, it's pretty amazing.I'm pretty sure. Yeah, these are the guys are like there's a video of them like talking like they're literally they go like on camera is like, oh, yeah, we're doing America stuff.We know we're not Hitler people.And then like the boat with the camera turns off.They're like, oh, good, the camera's off.We can say sick hail now.Yeah, yeah.It's great stuff.
01:32:30I mean, Vanguard America's logo was literally like an eagle carrying a bundle of fascist.Yeah, they're not not subtle.And I should say Vanguard America, I think was actually founded by another guy in California.But Thomas Rousseau was was pretty quickly prominent in there.And he splinters off into into Patriot Front.I need to be specific because there's people listening who will yell at me for getting that wrong.Yeah.So for the purpose of what we're talking about today, we should chat about Thomas Rousseau before we get into some of the funnier stuff because he's got a really interesting background
01:33:09for a fascist.So in the last couple of years, since Patriot Front became a thing, Rousseau has held a number of kind of like flash demonstrations where they'll get a few dozen Patriot Front guys together.And they'll march around in their fucking gators and their their little fascist uniforms that are like, I don't know, they look like country club Nazis is like the way they they prefer to dress.And they'll carry their shields and they'll, you know, film propaganda videos.Most of what they do is hand out like put out stickers, put out other kinds of propaganda to the extent that like they are probably the primary national purveyors of Nazi propaganda in like the real world.Like in terms of stuff that actually gets put out where people can see it.Yeah, I've like I've found like stickers from them.It's like random places in Chicago.
01:34:03Yeah.Yeah, I've seen a couple of them.Like 2019 Patriot Front was and this is the ADL's estimates.So they're not the most accurate they could be, but also no one else is really keeping track of this.So I'll say they're probably broadly correct.The in 2019 the ADL listed Patriot Front is responsible for 80% of all propaganda incidents nationally of like Nazi type groups.And then in 2020 that number doubled and they were responsible for like 90 plus I think sometimes you'll hear 92% of like the Nazi propaganda distributed nationwide.Their propaganda efforts are most active in Texas, Washington, California, Massachusetts, New York and Virginia.
01:34:46And it's one of those things this is not the goal with the propaganda is for them to be seen as very large and influential.The way that they manage to do it is that Patriot Front is effectively like a key parasocial relationship for most of the people in it, right?It's a series of like chats and discords and whatnot.And these people like come to feel like it's their community.And one of the things Rousseau did that was very smart is if you want to stay a member of Patriot Front, you will get banned and purged from the organization if you are not regularly posting proof that you're active in the real world.And the easiest way to do that is by putting up stickers, right?So that's not only how they fund some of their operations because, you know, their guys are buying stickers.But that's how you keep people engaged.
01:35:35If you want to like stay in the clubhouse with your friends, you have to go put up stickers every couple of weeks or every so often.And, you know, when you have a couple of hundred people doing that, stickers are not that expensive, you can get a lot of propaganda out that way.And so Rousseau has been very successful in that end of things.So let's chat about him a little bit.He is was born in 1998.So he's 24-ish right now.He grew up where I did.He comes from the suburbs of Dallas, the Metroplex, specifically Coppell.
01:36:04And if you're not, if you don't know much about the DFW suburbs.So Dallas, sizable city, about four million people, last I checked.And then you've got these, these suburbs that are millions more.And it's, it's effectively DFW is kind of this megalopolis, like it's this massive sprawling city larger than several states and its geographical area.At some point in the future, assuming growth continues, you're going to see like all of the big cities in Texas merge and when their Metroplexes start to mingle.But these, these, these Texas suburbs are all laid out very orderly in grids.They were all, they're all like planned communities.And in the area around like this particular chunk around Dallas, they're all pretty wealthy.
01:36:52And of these wealthy suburbs, Coppell is like where the money money is.Like coming up in Plano, which is was a fairly well off suburb.We would like the Coppell kids were like the rich kids, right?Like when we would compete against them in football and speech debate, like you'd feel like, yeah, we're like fucking with the rich kids.Let's get them.So this is, this is, this is like, this is like Dallas Fort Worth, like Evanston.I assume so.Yes.
01:37:20And when we would like, obviously, like, yeah, they were the rich kids.They were also like the kids I would often get drugs from when I was like 19 because they had like, they had, they had good drugs, you know.So the other thing you should know about and Coppell is where, you know, our boy, Thomas Rousseau grows up in the early 2000s.And in fact, his senior year is the year of the 2016 election.And another thing you should know about Coppell is that like all the Dallas Metroplex, it's incredibly diverse.And it's also, I should note, incredibly diverse in a specific way.It's not hugely economically diverse.But it is has a massive population of people from Southeast Asia, from India, from Vietnam, from China, and from Japan.
01:38:09And the, you can kind of see that if you look at, so Thomas Rousseau as a kid, works for the Coppell High School newspaper, the Sidekick.And if you, if you go to the Sidekicks website today, and if you look at its writers and its editorial staff, it is a bunch of kids from Southeast Asia.Now, Thomas Rousseau is extremely white.And he has, you know, his big thing is like replacement theory.He's been yelling about this for a very long time.And so one kind of assumes this is probably where he started feeling that.Although it's interesting, if you look up like one of the earliest articles, the SPLC has a pretty good profile on him.And back kind of at the start of 2016, in February, he writes this article about the school's diversity club, which is just a pretty normal.
01:39:02You would not, there's no signs in there, not that I saw that like he's going to be a Nazi in about a year.Like it's just, it's how like basically anybody who was writing a straight piece of reporting on a diversity club would write it, you know?It's not like there's no signs in that article.Yeah, which is interesting because like the next article he writes is like completely off the rails.Yeah, like it's like Trump is at that point because, you know, February 2016, Trump is still like, I don't know, he's definitely becoming the front runner, but it's not clear what's going to happen yet.And by the time he writes his next article, a couple in like October, it's full on Trumpy.Yeah, he's like, I mean, he's like, by that point, like he started his great replacement stuff.He started like, I mean, he's doing that kind of like the white working class has been like oppressed for too long.
01:39:56And people keep calling them braces and so they're voting for Trump now because they're simultaneously poor, but also like, but I think it's interesting.It's like, you know, it's an interesting sign of that kind of like what actually generates that kind of right wing populism because it's like, so you have someone who's like going fascist really quickly writing this and it's like, oh, where is he from?Oh, wait, he's like the incredible rich kid place. It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's fun.He's doing, yeah, he's doing the sort of fascist version of the like working class whispering that you get out of like rich pundits doing.And it's one of the kind of black box mysteries with Rousseau that I haven't seen a great is like, when, when does the actual switch flip in his head?Like when he writes that article about the school diversity club, is he already a fascist?Or is he one of these people who like is kind of conservative and gets super radicalized by Trump because he had you see throughout kind of 2016 because I get the feeling from him that he was always kind of like the conservative kid in his school paper and school media and like you getto see like he's writing like the month after that diversity club article, he writes an article about campus carry and is like supporting concealed carry on college campuses and is pretty like.
01:41:24But it's also these are also like kind of it's also kind of a milk toast conservative take like it's not he's not like making an explicitly fascist argument he's making the kind of arguments that like I would have made in speech and debate class as a conservative kid inNorth Texas when I was a senior, you see like in May he's writing an article about like bathroom bills and stuff that's that's getting closer to kind of modern American fascist rhetoric and then of course by like October he's he's fully on theTrump train and he actually has a removed opinion column after the election about like the silent majority where he says quote the truth is white voters especially the working class have had more than enough of being called racist sexist xenophobic Islamophobic homophobic and the rest of theusual trite buzzwords the forgotten majority of the American electorate has shown that much to the dismay of the globalist agenda that they have not yet been replaced by tens of millions of blue voting immigrants from abroad.And it's again you can kind of there's a debate as to whether you can I guess argue as to whether or not he had always been sort of a fascist and just felt like more comfortable as the year went on being open about it or if he's getting radicalized.I feel like he's kind of getting radical I can see I can see in him like shades of everyone that I knew back then at that point in time in my life.Yeah, including me. Yeah, like well and this reminds me so so I was I'm like a year old event he is right so I was out of high school by 2016 but like I you know I'd like I just graduated right like a good like 2015.Yeah, and I remember this with like people with people that I knew who were like because I mean like OK like what there were always people who were like really really like like we had a lot of like Fox News Pilled like kill all the Muslims kids.
01:43:04But there are also people who like weren't like that who were just like conservatives and over the course of 2016 like they went really really like they radicalized really quickly.So it wouldn't surprise me if he's doing the same thing because I think that was a lot of like.Like I watched a lot of sort of like more majority people get like who were kind of like on who weren't on the like absolute like right wing like.Who weren't on like the absolute like hard right of that thing who were kind of like.Conservative but you know like weren't actively invested in murdering every gay person. Yeah those people just like a switch flipped and they like they just kind of went sicko mode.Yeah and that's that's where he goes he goes like full on and I don't know you can it's interesting because like his his primary job for the sidekick the Cappell High School student newspaper is as like their their political cartoonist and he's he's mostly doing like really basic like clip art shit which is what you see him doing for likePatriot Front it's kind of the thing that distinguishes them this is like art style and the propaganda he makes so you know he's there at United the Right in 2017 one of the guys he's there with commits a terrorist attack.They spin off Patriot Front and for the next few years most of what they'll do is these events where they'll like show up and they'll march.
01:44:36It's worth noting that while they bring different kinds of weapons to these events mainly like you know bludgeoning weapons the kind of things you'd have for like a street fight.And shields these are not primarily violent events in that like their goal is not to get into a fight I think mainly not because they're not violent people because they're scared of getting into a fight.And Rousseau is probably scared of getting in trouble for having a bunch of people show up to riot so most of what they do is they'll do these flash mobs will there they'll get like.A bunch of people together in the middle of the night or like on a day when nobody expects it and they'll march around DC or something and then they'll get footage of themselves doing this March where you know they can kind of.Take care to make sure the angles make them look as impressive as possible and then they'll put that up to try and get more members so that they can put up more propaganda right.They've had a couple of well publicized failures they showed up in Philadelphia.So this was last year right yeah and they again there's like 30 to 50 of them they all like pilot of a U-Haul their marching is like in their fascist uniforms and like three dudes confront them and.Like three Philly guys just wreck their shit.
01:45:51So funny.I was thinking I think it was from that we're just like there's like there's a video it's just them running away and there's like there's like objects flying through the air.Like they're.Army confronts like three random Philly.We're just like oh this isn't any good.I know these guys are but there's no way this is good.Come up.It's a it's a perfect Philly moment.
01:46:20So yeah and like that is their MO and in part because one thing you have to and I.People can misinterpret what I'm saying here they're probably the most disciplined of the fascist groups that do regular in person events.Because there's a lot of discipline required in getting several dozen people together getting them all to the the area in the exact same mode of transport together that's why they all pile into U-Hauls right.Rousseau doesn't want to coordinate a big caravan.That would be messy people would be arriving at different times people get lost or get stuck in traffic.He wants everyone together because he's again he's a fascist so they're they're really.And they are pretty consistent and pretty good at getting everyone together and marching at the same time.So like on a logistic end there's some things they do that are competent you know generally speaking.
01:47:14Now the downside of this plan I've just talked about like why getting everyone in a U-Haul can work and how it has worked for them in the past.The downside of this is that everyone is in a U-Haul together.I mean I think I think for them there's I think there's some upside like for them doing this which is that like I think on a sort of like on like a discipline level on level of like building thislike like building this sort of like culture of like like community and like solidarity but like the fascist version of it.It's like yeah you have everyone suffering together in the back of a U-Haul which is hot as shit and like has to smell like like like like death.Like you cannot imagine.Like yeah it's like like imagine the worst locker room you've ever been in but then it's everyone has been trapped in there for a week.It's like yeah it's a hot air balloon powered by Nazi farts like that's that's what's going on there and they're all just like.
01:48:13And it's very funny because like when they had done their last event or two and like this is like in the dead of winter in the east coast that they do a couple of events.And they have people like nearly passing out from heatstroke in the back of the van.Yeah.Or in the back of the U-Haul because like it's not great to be grabbed in the back of the U-Haul.30 something people.It's like it sucks but also like that that suffering sort of like brings them together and makes them sort of like.Sure.Like yeah in a lot of ways which sucks but also yeah the second logistical problem with this I think you're about to get to.
01:48:49Yeah.So they they they try to Russo actually puts out specific like information about like hey here's how we need to prep for being crammed into a U-Haul together and like advises that his dudes start.Spending time in saunas and shit in order to like toughen themselves up to avoid getting heat syncope.Anyway there's a couple other things that are happening one of the things that we know because one of the funny things about Patriot Front.So they claim to have a an intense vetting process.You know you're supposed to like message them with an application and then they'll they'll vet you before they let you into the chat rooms.They have been compromised since the day they started being a Patriot.Yeah.
01:49:33I don't think there is a moment of the time that they have existed that I haven't known multiple people who had logs of every conversation.Like they're so infiltrated.It is extreme like it's like it's like the training wheels of anti-fascist research just like get into Patriot Front's chat rooms.There's always multiple people in there documenting their shit.It's extremely funny.And so because of that we know a number of their tactics.One of the things that Russo has admitted to doing in the past is that like well when we start like heading towards wherever we're going to you know pile out of the thing in March.We'll call the cops and we'll inform them that we've seen a group of people with shields getting ready to march and that they don't seem to have weapons but they're about to be an X area.
01:50:21And they do this so that there will be cops on scene who will provide like an escort for them right so that they won't get beaten up.Like they want the cops to be there to protect them you know.So Russo is like specifically bragged about doing this in the past.There's also like as I stated like the or as an organization their events are not geared towards like killing people right like they're not they're doing these marches to get videos.They're not like they're not even like the Proud Boys where they're specifically showing up to get into a brawl right.And every time they do get into brawls they look very uncomfortable and frightened in them which is why he like calls for police escorts and shit.That said there are like again they're a Nazi organization.They specifically preach with replacement theory and yell that their ancestors conquered America and so they deserve to own and all this shit.
01:51:14So a bunch of them have been arrested for like gun stuff.There's been a number of like people of Patriot Front members arrested for like illegal machine guns and shit like that.That absolutely happens.People post about their illegal guns and stuff.But as an organization they're mainly geared towards providing like propaganda that Thomas Russo likes.So they all gather together and are heading into Coeur d'Alene Idaho to confront this.And I suspect their goal.I suspect their Russo's hope for how this was going to go was they were going to pile out of their U-Haul going to get their 30ish guys all in lines together in their uniforms with their shields and with their their fucking fascist sticks or whatever.
01:51:56And they were going to march through the middle of the pride gathering and get video of people like scattering or backing away from in front of them not wanting to confront them because you know there was a big group of them.I think that was the hope.I'm sure Russo was like hey and maybe some antifa will try to fight and we'll get some videos of us like fighting them with shields and that'll be good for recruitment.But I think the main goal was to get a video of them scaring gay kids and looking like a big scary Nazi phalanx that they could use as propaganda.Now this goes to shit before they even get out of the U-Haul because somebody calls the police and reports what looks like a little army of guys with weapons and shields piling into a U-Haul.And again the police are saying that this was a concerned citizen and it based on the kind of most recent reporting it may just be a random citizen of Cordelline who actually like was for understandable reasons right.If you like see this happening you're like yeah maybe I should I might need to call somebody about this.I wouldn't call the cops necessarily but you know in this case it seems to have worked out that said knowing their background you have to acknowledge the possibility that it was one of them who called the police like that is not impossible.
01:53:14Now there's initially reports that it was the feds reports I should say from the cops on the scene and again it's reasonable that journalists overhearing that recording it would report on it.That said cops on the scene are no more accurate about what actually has happened than like random passersby.And they're more likely to just openly lie.And you know I'm certain there's a fed or four inside Patriot Front that said it doesn't seem like this was a fed bust.Although I you know it's not impossible that it was because if you were the feds and you had a guy in here and you decided you want to arrest these people to avoid a potential Charlottesville kind of situation happening again.Maybe you would want to just say it was like a random person who called.I don't know this does not.There's no reason that this needed to be a fed bust.
01:54:09They were not like this did not require the FBI's infiltration capability to deal with like it was a bunch of Nazis.Piling into a U-Haul.I don't have trouble believing that some dude was just like hey cops.And it's there's been a lot of like surprise online that like the cops did their job but they went after these people.I think the surprise there is kind of based on some misconceptions and these are misconceptions kind of pushed in part by the fact that over the last few years when we have seen fascist groups rally in places like Portland or like Charlottesville.For the United Right rally the cops tend to be on their side and tend to protect them.But what you're looking at are two different things in a lot of ways because the cops in a place like Portland and I assume in a place like Charlottesville.I'm not as familiar with their police demographics but I know this is the case in Portland.
01:55:02Don't live in Portland.They live in places like battleground Washington.They live in these surrounding more rural and suburban communities and they don't like the city that they police and they kind of see them as an enemy.So when other people generally from similar suburbs and rural communities as the cops show up to fight the kids that Portland cops don't like the Portland cops are going to be on the side of that.And this is again you see versions of this occur around the country.In Coeur d'Alene this was not like Coeur d'Alene cops live in Coeur d'Alene.There's nowhere else to live.They're from that community and even if I'm sure a number of them if not many or most of them have like attitudes towards you know have said some negative things about gay people.
01:55:49These are also like they're probably some of them are probably related to people with that pride rally.This is and in general these are like there's they are probably seeing this is like well whatever I think about pride.These are people who live in Coeur d'Alene and a bunch of folks from outside of the state are driving into fuck with them.They're not generally going to be on board with that and as a general rule also cops don't like people coming in to their town like home to cause trouble.And these are people from like 11 different states entering Idaho to like fuck with people who live in Idaho.I'm not surprised that the police actually did something here.It doesn't like mean that these are the good cops that we're mythically all looking for.It just means that like nobody wants this happening in their hometown like nobody.
01:56:36Nobody wants these assholes running into town dressed as like little Hitler youth guys and marching around like that's like of course they don't want that who would.So the cops pull over this fucking you all.There's the footage of it is some of the funniest shit on the face of the year.It's so good.They just roll up the back of this thing.There's like some fucking quarterling cop with an AR like pointed in there.And there's just all these fucking goober Nazis and they're they're fucking polos and khakis and they're fascist gators.God it's good.
01:57:13Look up this footage if you can find you.You owe yourself to do this.It's amazing.We should state we're not really we'll be getting more coverage to what happens and what happened elsewhere on this day.You had a lot of ugly shit happen this day in court.Because there are a lot of heavily armed fascists rallying who are in many cases locals or from nearby places like Spokane.Matt Shay who is a former state legislator from Washington who lives nearby who is a accused domestic terrorist.He leads a march through court.
01:57:44These guys are not stopped by the cops right in part because like they're not a bunch of dudes from out of state showing up to march around in ridiculous Nazi uniforms right.The police are notably less concerned about the guys in AR 15s and plate carriers than they are about Patriot Front which is again it's because of like what's actually going on here you know.There are like armed people fright like threatening and and trying to confront or at least standing around outside of a pride march in a way that you know if you're doing that with a bunch of guns.That's concerning anti fascist show up to protest them and very successfully kind of keep a wall between the folks showing up for pride and the folks rallying with guns.So that that is a thing that is happening I don't want to this has been the thing that has kind of like gotten the most attention from quarterly and I don't think that's bad like from a standpoint of.Like what is useful seeing a bunch of Nazis get their shit like wrecked is is definitely an ideal takeaway from the quarterly event because especially considering the amount of violence I think we were all worried might occur there.I'm very happy that the primary takeaway is Patriot Front all got arrested but the things that we were concerned about there again there's a bunch of dudes show up with guns to stare at a pride rally that's not a.Not a positive development but this group of Nazis all get arrested and that is positive because it's extremely funny and sometimes it's nice for things to just be funny.
01:59:15So the next kind of thing you see from Patriot Front is them all pulled out of a U-Haul on their knees handcuffed getting arrested one by one.And taken to a jail and quarterly and there's some very funny quotes where like the police are being asked do you even have room for all these people and they're like oh we'll figure it out.Russo and a bunch of guys are in getting criminal conspiracy charges they're all getting conspiracy to riot which is a misdemeanor.There's some rumors that a journalist posted that a number of them have a legal had illegal guns and are getting illegal gun charges I haven't seen confirmation about that.I'd be shocked if some of them were not carrying guns in the state of Idaho anybody can right.I do think they were specifically violating the law by having firearms while sitting in the back of a box truck because I think for like reasons of accidents that have happened hunting you're not supposed to do that in Idaho.But I haven't seen charges as a result of that it's debatable as to what's going to stick however there's reasons to kind of suspect that something will because they had like seven or whatever page plan for how to.They had their little riot notes.
02:00:33They had like sticks and a smoke bomb and stuff so it's not like an impossible case to convict them on conspiracy to riot I will say.You know like you're not you're not asking like the moon of the police in this instance to light or of the prosecutors or whatever to be able to actually convict.So we'll see what happens what's definitely happening is that this is very funny.Patriot Front is extremely incompetent.I would not take this as a broader sign that like number one the police are taking threats against pride rallies more seriously.No, no, I would not take this as a broader sign that like fascists are getting heavily stopped.I also wouldn't there's also been people saying that like and again this is coming from that journalist who claimed that like there's a bunch of gun charges pending and maybe there are.But like I think the the the comment she made was like a massacre was averted.
02:01:29I do not believe Patriot Front was planning to massacre anybody.It there's that's just that's not their MO that's not like again not that they're not Nazis not that they don't want people dead.But like they're like these guys are like the milk toastist, babyist Nazis, right?They show up and they march around in their fucking like Tommy Hilfiger Nazi uniforms.You know, like they're not these are not folks planning in an organized capacity to commit acts of mass violence because that would be scary to them because they're mostly like suburban middle class kids.One of the funniest things that has come out of this is like one of the Nazis get arrested in Idaho's mom has started doing news because she's like I kicked him out of the house.I keep trying to get him to I don't know what to do to get him out of this group.So I've told him he can't live with me anymore because after his divorce he's been living with me.
02:02:24And I'm going to talk to the media about the fact that my son is a stupid Nazi until he stops being one.I don't know what else to do.And it does sound like she's really legitimately like trying to grapple with like I don't know why he's doing this.I don't know how to stop it.But like it seems like the best thing I can do is embarrass him, which is I think probably a good move on her part.Yeah.There's a fun Daily Beast article about that.You could really hear her frustration was like, I don't know why he's doing this.
02:02:53Like it all started around 2016.It's very frustrating.You feel for her.So I don't know, Chris, you got anything else to say about Patriot Front?I do think it's extremely funny that like, well, I don't know.In some sense, it's funny.In some sense, it's kind of disturbing, which is that like the rights reaction to this was immediately to accuse all of him of being feds.Yeah, I mean, which like it's interesting to me that like that's just like anytime something happens in the U.S. now.
02:03:24Like and this is this is across almost the entire political spectrum.Everyone immediately goes this was the feds or sometimes sometimes sometimes you get it was Russia because sometimes yeah.Yeah.Because it's like if you're someone who like the feds are the good guys, it's like, well, you need another person who did all this.Yes.So like that's disturbing and kind of grim to me that it's it's literally everyone with everything has just turned into Alex Jones.And it's like, yeah, you know, I think the motivation for that on all the sides.There's definitely like a core of legitimate belief that because the feds infiltrate the feds have infiltrated a lot of fascist groups and the feds have, you know, had a history of infiltrating left wing groups and whatnot.
02:04:04Like the feds have done a lot of this stuff.So that makes some people paranoid.But also I think if you are on the grifter end of things, right.And you want to talk about this stuff, but you don't actually want to put yourself at risk.That's an easy way to kind of divorce your listeners and supporters and stuff from the stuff that's potentially illegal is by saying, well, that's all the feds.Yeah.And I think also especially like, I think people are, I don't know, it's more frustrating on the left because people do it with stuff that like the PR is actually pretty good.But like with people on the right, there's a lot of like, this has become one of those sort of like PR management things of like anytime something looks bad for them.
02:04:48Yeah.No, it was the feds.No.And I don't think that's on the right at least.I think it's there.I think there's more legitimate belief that it's the feds on folks in the left to do this.Yeah.I think on the right, it is nearly always just like, this is how you do damage control.
02:05:05Like this is how we this is how we distract from the fact that our guys keep carrying out attacks or whatever, or in this case, that our our our dudes are profoundly embarrassing.Yeah.Is you, is you're like, no, that was the FBI packing 30 federal agents into the back of a U-Haul and getting arrested by the Cordelein police.A classic FBI caper if I've ever seen one.My favorite one of those is the people who are like, you're never going to see the names of any of these people.Like literally two hours later, every single person got booked and all of their names, like a list of all of their names showed up at every newspaper.And it is again, this does show you how the Cordelein police don't want people coming in from out of town to fuck with people who live in Cordelein.That's not a them being woke.
02:05:54They like nobody, no cops like that sort of shit.Yeah.Yeah.Like this.Yeah.Yeah.These guys aren't these guys aren't the hometown fascists, right?Like they're they're fine with like Shay.
02:06:04Yeah, they're fine.Exactly.Yeah.Biblical bases award dude is like, yeah, but these are like, these are weird out of town fascists.And it's like, yeah, cops.I don't know.Yeah.And it's very territorial.
02:06:17One of the one of the ways you can see the territoriality is like the first thing the Cordelein police do is be like, oh, we're going to give everyone's name and where they live.Like we're doing that immediately.And of course, the the backlash to that from the fascist has been that now a bunch of fascists are doxxing and calling in death threats to Cordelein cops.Which again, there's this open question of like, are any of these charges going to stick for Patriot Front?The fact that an organized flood of death threats is is going in for the police charging them is not good for their cases.Oh, no.They're just they're just missing the cops off.It's like, guys, guys, some free cop advice for me.
02:06:57Cops don't like getting death threats.So that that really makes them angry.Yeah.So that's funny.I don't know what else to say about it.It is pretty funny.There's aspect again, the broader problem of there were a bunch of dudes with ARs showing up to to threaten a pride gathering was not fun.Although also a lot of folks showed up to defend and support those people.
02:07:28And I think I think also like from what I remember from the reporting, this was like one of the largest pride events I've ever had.So like, I think it brought out people.Yeah, yeah, people people aren't being like as an intimidation tactic.It's not working.It does not seem to have worked.Yeah, it's it's it's it's where it's it's working in so far as it's, you know, it's further radicalizing the right.But like, it's not it hasn't gotten to the point where like, I don't know, people like.It hasn't gotten to the point where like these things just are or like pride events just aren't happening because they're because the threat is great enough.
02:08:04So yeah.And I I would say, broadly speaking, if you kind of look at all of the things that we saw in the quarterly event, it's a more more positive signs than negative ones.The negative stuff is stuff that we have seen a lot before the militia shit.The folks rallying to defend those people, the people turning up for the pride event.That's all positive.And of course, the most prominent fascists at the event embarrassing themselves like that's positive.So I am.Yeah.
02:08:38I feel I do feel like we were all worried over here about how the event in Coeur d'Alene was going to go.I feel really good about how it it went, which is not to especially.I know that there's folks from Coeur d'Alene there not to minimize the problems and the threats faced, especially from people in Idaho, because boy, that is rough territory to be organizing in defense of LGBT people.But I think broadly speaking, more good news than bad news from from Coeur d'Alene.So I want to give our appreciation and thanks to the folks who showed up in Coeur d'Alene to support this event to confront the fascists.Y'all are awesome and doing something difficult in a place that needs you to be doing that.So thank you.Ah, here we go.
02:09:49It could happen here.Yeah, podcast where our intros get increasingly more segmented as you realize we have no idea who was going to do the intro.Yeah, we've never at no point during the existence of this show or its growth have we have we planned a single thing or talked about how to do our jobs.I've never I don't even know who we who we are.We are all meeting for the first time.I have that disease that Adam Sandler has or what's her name has in that Adam Sandler movie where he forgets she forgets everything every day.That's me.Drew Barrymore?
02:10:27That's right.That's right.Shereen, Drew Barrymore.I forgot, but.I can just is it the same thing as in memento because that's all I can think of.Yes, yes.Yes, Adam Sandler's memento.My favorite movie.
02:10:42Well, we should probably introduce the episode today.Yeah, so it's me, it's Lucifer Wong and today we're doing an episode that is.that is, you know, okay, we've been force-feeding you really grim stuff for a long time. So todaywe're going to do an episode about Southern colonialism and politics and board games,because that's also extremely cool, and it does not. I mean, it is kind of depressing,but it involves less doom than normal. And yeah, and with me talk about this, it isShereen, our wonderful producer who also writes for us and is great and we love.Thanks, I'm here, yeah. And Robert, who we tolerate.
02:11:27Oh, that's nice of you. You shouldn't.A bit, we do. Kyle, it's nice to meet you.Yeah, and also we have Kyle from Strange Matters.Yes, yes. I'm Kyle Flannery. I'm an editor and co-owner of Strange Matters Magazine.A, I guess we technically have now launched even with the print issues are not in people's hands,a new leftist culture and politics magazine here to be the consulting super nerd.Awesome. Yeah, I am very excited. I mean, I, well, okay, I feel like weirdly for a groupof people that I met, I have probably played the least board games of anyone here.
02:12:07What? I'm excited for this episode. I'm obsessed.When I was a kid, my board game was Risk. Yeah, I did a bunch of others. I played like HeroQuestand obviously Axis and, I'll say this, I say I played Axis and Allies. I set up Axis andAllies boards many a time and then gave up after like 15 minutes of playing the actual game.That's how I played HeroQuest. Yeah, yeah.Because I was like, I was like, I tried to read the HeroQuest rule book and I was like,I have no idea what's going on here because I was like 10. No, specifically my fucking thing,we would speech and debate tournaments, you know, because when you do it, you're basically out for
02:12:45a whole weekend, sometimes three days, sometimes like four. And you're basically living in thisschool, but you have like maybe one or two hours of stuff per day. And the rest of the time,you're just hanging around, hearing how your friends are doing is like the competition goeson and we would play Epic, specifically Lord of the Rings risk. We would have these massiverisk games. Oh, I have, yeah, I have very good memories of playing Lord of the Rings risk withmy friends. Yeah. I just had the normal vanilla risk. Wow, I was really missing out.I just remember being at a bachelor party where after we finished all the normal bachelor partystuff, we crawled back to the place where everybody's going to camp out for the night.
02:13:25And so we managed to convince one of the other groomsmen that a game of risk only takes aboutan hour. And he did this at like, it was like three in the morning. Yeah.Miss the wedding that day. Yeah, it was like three a.m. the day after the wedding.It was an act of extraordinary cruelty. Anyway, he didn't get married, but he did take Kamchatka,which was really key to his plans to assault North America. We shockingly did all make it to thewedding, which was very much a risk. Very much a risk. Yeah, very much a risk. Yeah, that's whyit's called that. Yeah. I was smart enough to just go, no, I'm going to bed. I'm not doingthree a.m. risk. That's not happening. But yeah, I guess to kind of back up and provide a little
02:14:15bit of context about why I kind of thought this was so worth talking about because I'm guessingthat there's some readers at home who are having a very common thought, which is whyare you talking about board games? Like, well, who cares? And, you know, I remind a little bitof the little tweet joke from a while ago of a couple of years ago, why am I talking about alittle while ago? On Star Trek, they have the, you know, they've got their, what do they call that,the holodeck. They've got the holodeck and, but for some reason, every week, everybody's intosome weird new board game. What the hell is going on with that? And for the people whoaren't aware of this kind of sector of nerddom, board games are actually
02:14:56massively more popular than they were when I was a child, when millennials were young. And a largepart of that push has actually been from game developers themselves. The people who make yourvideo games absolutely fucking love board games. And it's for a pretty simple reason, which is thatyou know all of the rules to the game. Board games are naked before your eyes. You have, you havestripped them down to their, their atomic components before you have done anything. And that meansthat if you are interested in the art of how a game works, they're actually wonderful case studies,because you can see very quickly the way that you move from what the mechanic is doing to,like, what it means. Whereas in a video game, it can be a lot more obscure, it can be a lot more
02:15:37complicated. And it requires, it can require a lot of digging. You don't have to, you know, I amenough of a turbo nerd that I have broken into the games files for various video games I've playedand ripped out the code and looked at it and been like, ah, so that's the drop rate. Because again,I'm consulting turbo nerd here. But with a board game, you don't have to do that. You just knowall of the rules up front. And so, you know, if you're, so that's, you know, reveal, I can reveala lot about what the designers' intentions are, what they're communicating, and how thatcommunication all works. So that was kind of my start point here. Should I just keep on goingand explain what the hell is going on with this article that I'm about to talk about?
02:16:18Yeah, I mean, I was going to note that the primary board game played in Star Trek TNG wasStratagema in the classic episode in which data has to get really good at what is basicallyholographic chess. Absolutely, yeah. Yes. Anyway, you talked about Star Trek the next generation,so now that's all I've been thinking about for a while. It's good that we didn't get into theawful board games from DS9. Oh, God, yeah, there's some real, I mean, Stratagema is pretty ridiculousand the episode is very silly. But it's one of the more fun data episodes. Whereas the board gameepisode from DS9, I think it's generally considered the worst episode in all of DS9. Yeah, I mean,there's, I think, the worst episode of Star Trek the next generation is not the board game,
02:17:06but it's the one where Riker and his dad fight in what's basically American Gladiator Judo,where they have to have the baddest sticks that they have to fight. The ultimate martial art.Anyway, please continue. Anyway, yeah, so to talk, so I wrote this article that has,is upcoming in publication, it's going to be in our first issue. And it's about a particulartrend that I noticed in board games, that there were a lot of board games that were,in terms of what was actually going on on the board, they were incredibly violent, but theymanaged to make it look like there was no violence going on. And so I actually am grateful for Robertfor talking about the games he talked about, you know, Axis and Allies and Risk. Even like Monopoly,
02:17:49these are games that are in, was generally known as the American tradition, where the goal is toeliminate all the opposing players. Yeah, the last one standing. Yes, like everything in American,it is like one person wins by using either violence or capitalism on the other.Yeah, you out-survive all of your opponents. Because that is what we do in America. We justsurvive. We just pray to God that there is somehow a tomorrow. And by God, we're going to takeKamchatka. That's my only political stance as an American, is that we will take the KamchatkaPeninsula. And we're going to take Australia for those three extra armies. That's Australia'sstrategy. I feel like half the risk variance I saw were just ways to nerf the Australia strategy.
02:18:36But in any event, there's a European tradition. And one of the things, and that has been a lot,that has been very popular, has made an absolute shitload of money over the last several years.Shitload being very relative, because again, board games are pretty small fields compared tovideo games or gambling or booze or something like that. But they've been kind of the dominantname in the game. And one of the kind of major conceits of this style of game is you don'teliminate other players. All players, any player who starts the game at the table is going to endthe game at the table. You never eliminate anybody. And this is, I think, an admirable enough goal.Yeah, that's one of the things that's annoying about a lot of games is like trying to do a party
02:19:14thing and people are getting eliminated. Although it can be fun if everyone is drinking at thesame time. And while you play the game, people get eliminated and then get drunker and heckleeveryone else at the table. That's actually not bad. That's actually not bad. I more rememberit being like middle school and high school where you just have somebody sitting there bitterlyfor four hours while you try to clean up a risk game. Anyway, the one that most people are probably,the one that is the most famous, infamous is Settlers of Catan. And that's kind of what's mystart point. Settlers of Catan is a board game where you play as European colonizers to a almostuninhabited island and almost uninhabited island. And you cannot damage the other players directly.
02:19:58There is no mechanism for doing this. You can block them off from building things, but you cannever send your body to conquer their territory. Well, I always go hard on the roads. Yeah, yeah.You can block people with roads. It's a very like, it's kind of like a rivalry between developersalmost. But one of the things that is kind of outstanding about this is that it's not a technicallyuninhabited island. There is a, quote, robber that starts out on the island. And the robber iscapable of inflicting violence on the players and it can be sort of controlled by the players.And so the part that was, again, striking to me about this is you can't directly, you know,this would actually be the right number of players. Of me, Chris, Shereen and Robert,
02:20:41we're all sitting at a table playing Settlers of Catan. I could not eliminate any of them.None of them could eliminate me. We could not harm each other directly. We can just negotiatewith each other. We can trade with each other. But there is still ultimately a winner. Andthis is, if you are willing to make some kind of specific historical amnesia about how colonialismactually operated where wars of colonial aggression also included wars in Germany,like the Seven Years War or the wars of Spanish succession were all happening at the same time.But you can, it can be viewed as similar to that. And again, it has this explicit theming. And thatis, I do think that those things, those things are dovetailing together, right? That the only
02:21:24people who are real people are the colonizers. The colonized are non-agentic. They're justset. They're setting. And the more you think about it, it's just kind of messed up. It's justkind of, it's kind of messed up. And I do think it's kind of interesting that the game doesn'treally say this very explicitly, right? And I know, I know there's going to be somebody who'sgoing to say, oh, you know, the game says Rob or it doesn't say Native American. How can you know?And it's like, come on, man, if you watched a movie where there was some, there was a group ofpeople in the movie who were portrayed as violent and incapable of acting on their own. And allof these racist tropes, even if they were not played by Native American actor, even if they
02:22:14didn't use any explicit Native American references, if all of the good guys are people who dispossessthis person, you know what's going on. People don't look at the Tempest and see Caliban and go,this person has nothing to do with the Americans. That doesn't...Well, yeah, yeah. Because they're making him uncivilized. Like,like, civility or like civilians in general, they come from somewhere else and they inhabit the place.But yeah, you're right. Like, just like Columbus discovered America,the natives are a race. Like, it's a blank slate as far as white settlers are concerned.Yeah, it's a blank slate.
02:22:48Like, the positionality of, like, the game is very explicit about who is a settler and who isnot, right? The settlers of Catawna are you and everyone else playing the game. And then youhave the other person who's on the island who got here before you. And it's like, hmm.Yeah. I mean, the name is pretty blunt. Settlers of Catawna. Like, you are like, you know,there's no, I don't know. It's very, it's very hard to evade. And, you know, like,you can see the art from the game. Like, it's all white people. And it's, it's kind of interestingbecause in the first edition, printing, they're all kind of medieval, but in later editions,they're like colonial America. Like, it's, I don't think it's like, it requires some very
02:23:26deliberate obtuseness to miss that this is what is going on. And so anyway, that has,that was, that was released like 20 something years ago. I find it very funny that settlersof Catawna managed to win Game of the Year awards in both 1995 and 2005.Like, it hasn't changed much. I don't know. Yeah, those are different years. Like, what's it goingon? They did add boats. They did add boats. That's true. You're not, you're not wrong aboutboats. Chris, you don't, you don't, you don't have boats. Come on. That's true. I actually don't.It's funny. My neighbors have a boat. I do not have a boat because I'm a regular person whodoesn't live next to a lake. Oh, yeah. There. Yeah. I also do not have a boat. So yeah.
02:24:18I briefly had a commute to work that I could have kayaked, but I don't know the kayak.That's New York, baby. I developed a desire to have a boat last year becauseI, yeah, I was in Spain and I met a Spanish guy with a boat and that does seem like the life,but that's neither here nor there. You're, you're, you're horrible descent into turning into somesort of Hemingway adjacent character. Yeah. Just, just, I mean, it is, it is nice to be drunk on aboat. Yeah. It's also very expensive to have a boat. So maybe I'll get drunk on an inflatable raftinstead. Yeah. I just get a sunfish and just flip it over every 30 seconds. There you go.The working man's boat. Yeah. The working man's boat. But yeah. And so, so from there, I kind of,
02:25:02what has happened is unsurprisingly that, you know, board games are actually kind of a slight,a somewhat demographic art form compared to video games because all you really need is some paper.Like really, that's all you need. You need some paper and you can make a board game.If you have tabletop simulator, you just need tabletop simulator. You're already done.Like, and then you just need to be able to bully people into playtesting your game. And that'sreally the hard part. But, you know, so this means that, you know, people will iterate on thingspretty quickly. You know, it's a very like fan fiction environment. People will, will iteraterather quickly on your ideas and develop them further. And so I looked through some of the
02:25:40other games that I've played and liked. And, you know, I actually tend to like pretty muchall the games that I studied. Splendor is one that is very fun, very casual, very easy. Andit just has this art that bugs me. This art that really bugs me where it's about being a gemtrader. And it's very much seems to be based on like Renaissance Italy or like Renaissance Antwerp.You know, and for some reason, like you don't see people in minds. It's very weird. All of the,there will be pictures of minds like, okay, you bought this emerald mine. And there's like nobodythere, which is very weird because I have seen pictures of pre industrial. I've seen picturesof minds from the 1980s, which is firmly industrial, where there are thousands of people. You can
02:26:29barely see the ground, you know, thousands of people everywhere. You know, mining is very laborintensive. You only start seeing mining become kind of like capital intensive, like very recently,and even then only really in the United States and a couple of other countries, you know, Germanyobviously uses very capital intensive mining. Everywhere else, it's very, very labor intensive.But Splendor, they won't show you the people doing the mining, but they will show you thepeople sorting the gems, which is skipping the slavery part. Yeah, exactly. Exactly the partthey're skipping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's even today, like you ignore what your, how your cellphone is made, right? You're just like, you're glossing over the unflattering parts and going
02:27:11straight to making a gem. Yeah. Yeah. You're going straight to, you know, I've got, you know,I've got my, my pretty purple cell phone, you know, and the, the, the part where, you know,there was, you know, pretty much a war in the Congo fought over it. And then they had to installsuicide nets in China gets completely glossed over. And all that stuff goes into this phone. But,you know, to me, it's just kind of a necessary hunk of plastic and metal for surviving inAmerica. And I, I, you know, I'm not entirely, I don't want to be too hard on the designers here.It's very, like I, there's a part of me that wants to be, and there's a part of me that wants to bekind of forgiving and being like, do you really want to be playing this like fun, casual game and
02:27:56like be confronted with slavery? But at the same time, like. But make the game about something else.Yeah. You really tried to have it both ways here. Like this is like, I don't. Make the game aboutsomething actually fun, not, not something that involves slavery. Well, I mean, there are, andthere are people who do that, you know, it's like, not that hard to find people like making games aboutlike theme parks or like haunted houses, haunted houses, or utopia or like weird, like utopianarchaeologies and stuff like that. Like people make these things, but like,this, this colonialism keeps on like coming back. Right. And part of that, you know, part of that is,I guess, like all sci-fi is kind of colonialist. But wait, before we go, do you know what else
02:28:39keeps coming back? Oh, you know what? Tell me what, Sheree. Capitalism. It's time for an outbreak.And there's still more capitalism. But that'll be more capitalism.That's true. That's true. Different capitalism. Yeah, right now we're in like more earlycapitalism. And so the game that like really stuck in my craw, the weirdest, and I might endup reading a quote out from here. I'm sorry for being an incredibly irritating person and doingthat. There's a game called Mombasa. And Mombasa is so aggressive about how colonialist it is.It is so, so aggressive. The premise of the game is that you are adventurers in the scramble forAfrica. And the goal is to be the player who retires the richest. And the ways in which the
02:29:37mechanics of this game are messed up. The part of the mechanics that I will say is genuinely clever.And if they hadn't made it about the scramble for Africa, I would have like no, I would just be like,yeah, cool. So I still have to like admit that this is this is cool is that you start out workingfor a different joint stock company, but anybody can buy shares in anybody else's joint stock company.So the best strategy is to buy somebody else's company, and then they make the company valuable.And you contribute as little as possible free rider problem, you know, the classic of gametheory that liberal economists fucking love talking about. Great thing to do with the game.But the way you make your company valuable is like, it's pillaging Africa. Like it's pillaging
02:30:20Africa. And it's it's very, very weird. Like there's you have this map of Africa in front of you.And the map of Africa has valuable things in it has, you know, diamonds that you can pick up.It has like, there are books, which is unclear if that represents like you write an adventure novellike King Solomon's Mines, or you write a naturalist guide, or you write an ethnography,but you're writing some sort of book that is based on how you despoiled the African continent. Andwhat what always struck me is so weird is that the territory is just when you enter the territory,you just take everything. You just you just pillage it. It's not like territory that you holdand really make more productive. You don't develop it. There's at least it's honest about that to a
02:31:06certain extent, at least it's honest that like, the Europeans were lying about any of that development,civilizing mission shit, like they were there to steal. And but what is so so weird to me about itis that like, there's there's no resistance. There's no risk to expanding across the continent.There's no negotiation. The only other characters at all are the other players, the other Europeans.You know, this continent that's at the time had hundreds of millions of people.Many of whom had legitimate kingdoms that in some parts of Africa were, you know, had full gunpowderand militaries, just totally glossed over, just totally not mechanically represented at all.Well, it's like they're only they're they're portraying the only future that that is possible.
02:31:56Like, you know what I mean? This is how you become a civilization. There's no other that there's onepath. There is one path to being a civilization, and it does involve a lot of taking other people'sshit to be fair. No, I said that ironically, Robert, I know, I said in their mind, there's one path.Yes, I do feel like I've got to read this out from the rulebook because it was like so eye-poppingto me. This is from the rulebook. This is the start of the rulebook, the opening.In Mombasa, players acquire shares of chartered companies based in Mombasa, Cape Town,St. Louis, and Cairo and spread their trading paths throughout the African continent in order toearn the most money. Chartered companies were associations formed for the purpose of exploration,
02:32:43trade, and colonization, which links them inextricably to a very dark chapter in human history,global colonialism. This period lasted roughly from the 15th century to the middle 20th centuryand is associated with exploitation and slavery. Although Mombasa is loosely set within thistime frame, it is not a historical simulation. It's a strategy game with an economic focusthat roughly refers to historical categories and places them in a fictional setting.The exploitation of the African continent and its people is not explicitly depicted withinthe gameplay. If you want to learn more about the underlying history, we recommend the followingread, History of Modern Africa, 8200 to Present by Richard J. Reed. End quote. So they fucking knew,
02:33:22like they fucking knew that this was some evil, evil shit that they have made into a game andthey want you to know that they knew that you, that you were going to call the nun.It's like making like a Candyland version set in the Congo where you have to collect hands orrubber and being like, by the way, you can read a book about this if you want. Yeah. This is like,it's such a cop out. It's like, it's so bizarre. Like, it's so bizarre. And how many people evenread this stuff? Like, like, generously, one person I've ever read before reads the rule bookwhen you learn a board game, like, like very generously, like, I'm just a huge nerd wholikes reading this stuff. And I was just like, read this and my jaw was just like, holy shit.
02:34:11I think you could try, it might even be wisdom in trying to like make a board game about thescramble for Africa that's like framed in like a kid friendly way, but is also like very blatantlyhorrific. It's just like the kind of thing that if you think about it 10 seconds, you're like, oh,we're just like subjugating and massacring people. But it's also like the art style is like themedoff of Candyland or some sort of shit, like maybe, but even then, you're probably more likely to justget people enjoying it unironically than you are to actually convince anybody to read aboutthe scramble for Africa. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, well, it's actually kind of interesting becausethere's a there's like a good tradition of like making like kid friendly appearing things that
02:34:55are actually quite horrifying if you think about them for more than two seconds and monopoly.Yeah. Monopoly, for example. And I mean, I was going to take a slight turn away from board games.I grew up with the Red Wall books. Oh, gosh, yes. Yeah. The Red Wall books, like,even though like stoats are not a race of people in real life, they are a type of weasel.Holy shit, those books managed to be incredibly racist. It really is racist against, like,different types of weasel. But, you know, they portrayed this is this very cutesy world of,you know, animals, you know, mice and badgers and stuff. And they're just committing genocide leftand right. And just portrayed as like totally okay. It's just like a normal. So what was no idea
02:35:37what you're talking about? This is crazy. Yeah, popular children series in like the 80s and 90s.Yeah, no, I read these books. It was like, yeah, it's like you flip back and forth between like,yeah, here is Martin the mouse and he's a hero. And also he's eating all of this really nice food.And then also we must exterminate, like, entire species. It's like. It's fuck wild. It is insane.The Red Wall Fee spot, by the way, is a really good Twitter follow.We're just post excerpts from the food descriptions. Those are incredible.But the reason why I kind of made that turn is that one of the games I considered that I actuallyreally liked is something of a post something of an anti colonial game called root. And this
02:36:19was part of the part of what I was kind of witnessing over as I was studying these is thatthere is a bit of a discourse, a bit of a development over time. And two of the games thatI highlighted, Root and Spirit Island are kind of are fairly anti colonial and root is a kind ofroot is a kind of horrifying game. But with very cutesy appearances, you know, you play as likemice and cats and and birds. And the birds are like, like horrifying aristocrats.Like, like you're like a feudal militaristic dictatorship. The cats are like trying to turnthe entire force into like a giant wood cutting factory and like subjugate everybody else underthe boot heel of like industrial capitalism. And you can play as just like the concept of revolution.
02:37:11Like that's like an entire like, there's a woodland alliance who win the game by like provokingrevolts of the civilian population to overthrow the other two. It's very weird. It's a very,very violent game by comparison. It's very hard to eliminate a player in it. But it was kind ofinteresting to me to see that like you can do it's kind of almost the the exact opposite whereit says like a lot of like it doesn't have it has this very obviously horrifying andgraphically violent mechanics, you know, revolutions and subjugation. But with likethe characters look cute, like all the all the character art is very cute.You know, you got like a little mice like making pungy traps and stuff in the artwork.
02:38:00It's very odd. Yeah, I kind of I kind of jumped a little bit ahead here. But I don't know thatwe need to go through the everything I did in this in this paper. It's a little bit boring.And also we need to leave things for the readers. And actually root is a little bitbased on a game series that I think would be particularly appealing to Robert and possiblythe listeners. There's a company called GMT Games. Anybody else heard of them? These guys areinteresting. Continue. GMT Games make games like Cuba Libre, a four player asymmetric warfareabout the Cuban Revolution. And boy, that could go a couple of ways. Yes. Yes. I won once as themafia, which was an interesting side to play. Oh, nice. An interesting an interesting series
02:38:54of interests to have. You know, I could not build an army for shit. I just had to count the factthat other people didn't think it was worth destroying casinos because they're too busytrying to stamp out revolutionaries. And or they're revolutionaries trying to stamp out fascists.And it was a they're a very the reason why I think they're very weird companies that, you know,think they're all games like Cuba Libre, Twilight Struggle, a distant plane, which is about thewar in Afghanistan. But they also are like these guys are like Quantico psychos.They actually they are the guys who make the actual four real war games that the Pentagonuses. Yeah. Yeah. Quantico, if you're not up on things is like the part of the Virginia area,
02:39:39kind of a suburb of DC, where all of the all of like the fed feds live, like I'm not talking aboutlike border patrol feds or shit, I'm talking like fucking CIA motherfuckers. Yeah. Capital F feds.Yeah. Isn't the CIA is like training facility there? Yes, they are. And so does and I thinkthat the FBI also has a facility in Quantico. Yeah. Capital F feds. Yeah. Yeah. All the agentsare there. Yeah. Yeah. Don't think of like like your OSHA inspectors here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,well, and also just like we're not primarily talking about like the door kickers, we'retalking about the people who are like the doing the really scary shit, you know. Yeah. I will saythough, if we gave OSHA like CIA powers, the world would be in an obviously better place.
02:40:27I think we hand them the nukes. I think we hand them the nukes and a mandate to use them ifsecurity procedures aren't followed. Not cleaning your counter after using chicken.That's the end of Detroit. You know, there goes San Francisco. You didn't clean your food cartwell enough, you know, pretty soon. Collective punishment, but just for workplace violations.Yeah. Collective punishment for like basic sanitation violations. I mean, in a way,not following sanitation does lead to collective punishment, whether or not you have a federalenforcement force or not. That's right. Hence the deployment of our nation's nuclear assets.Do you know what else is collective punishment? Capitalism? Yes. Listening to ads. Yeah.
02:41:13So let's all endure it together. Oh, we've been collectively punished.Solidarity to all of us who must endure advertising. Yes.Yes. I have been rambling a lot. And yeah, like I said, I find this question of who getsto be an agent? To be very important. Who gets to be a player? Who is even given the choiceof winning? You know, if you're not a player, you're completely ridden off from the possibilityof ever winning. And, you know, this is something that like in video games, we've seen recurringdebates around this, you know, like civilization is an infamous one for this, you know, who evengets to be a civilization? Why are some civilizations, civilizations in some
02:42:01city states and some barbarians? And, you know, it does, you know, it does shape your thinking,you know, and there's, there's, you know, games are very valuable for how they create empathy.You know, a game that can really immerse you, can really teach you a lot of very creativeand powerful empathy for groups of people that you might never have the chance to interact with.And then when you keep on creating games that ask you to empathize with the colonizers.Yeah, you think it's just the normal way of things. This is what, this is what happens.This is the succession of events that leads to humans.Yeah, this is a session of events that leads to humans. Those who do not participate simply die
02:42:46out. This is adaptation. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. And I mean, it's, it's, you know,the same could be said of all the culture. But, you know, I think it's worth being informed andcritical consumers. And I mean, I actually do, you know, I actually, you know, I know you wantthis to be an uplifting episode and I'm going to be optimistic here. I, you know, it's not justthat we're talking about stuff where the stakes are not literal deaths, the stakes are, you know,getting mad at your friends over a board game. But also, I do think that we have seen positivedevelopment of people taking, of people looking at these games, you know, there's a game developer whosaid about some of the games he was playing. What are the locals think about these colonizers?
02:43:32Like, it's pretty rude that nobody's asking them and tried to design starting from there. And Ihave some criticisms of how he executed that, how well he executed on that vision. But the,the fact of the matter is, is that even just through the sheer iteration of somebody looking at a gamelike Settlers of Katana and going, well, how can I do this differently? You know, I can't just releasethe same game every single year. I need to do something new. And even just a simple one ofjust reversing who is the players. Simple enough. Even that has been creating some iteration insome, some additional complexity, which and has caused people, I have seen people, you know,go back and reexamine, even if they're not people who have any sort of like education,
02:44:17any sort of formal education in anthropology or post-colonial theory, they'll look at like, oh,yeah, I was playing this game where you're the colonizer and I played this other game wherethey reversed the roles. And I was like, I was the bad guys earlier. Yeah. I mean, I think portrayingthe other side and maybe winning means you kick them out or or destroy them. I would like to seethat play out versus that. Yeah. That is Spirit Island. That is what Spirit Island is. The playerscooperate to destroy the colonizers or to terrorize them into abandoning the island.Weird game. Weird game. I have some, I think there's some good execution in there. And I'vegot some criticisms of it is my favorite, but it does do some things a little bit.
02:45:00Well, patronizing. But yeah, like, yeah, that's something I think is worth seeing. And I thinkit's something that, admittedly, maybe I just really enjoyed this space of the world because,you know, if you look at very mainstream, you know, video games, for example,you're kind of bored of the same like five feeling the same five games get releasedevery year, you know, some texture, give me something new. But also, I think thatit's I think that the I think there's some cost for optimism for people like criticallyexamining the art that they're building, the art that they're consuming and the art that they'recreating. And I don't know that counting on that kind of stochastic bouncy ball randomness of
02:45:46people just kind of spontaneously going, what if we what if we played what if we reverse the rolesin Call of Duty, you know, what if we played the people living in the favela will call of dutyis happening on in the background, just counting on like the randomness of that happening mightnot be as fast as people want. I wish. I wish. Oh, yeah. There was a game called I think it wasI think it was called this is war. Maybe Oh, it's called this war of mine. That's what it was.That's a good game. Yeah, yeah. That's a really well done game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there'sI'm, I'm, I don't know, I'm excited to see the future of all this stuff and excited to see wherepeople go with this. Well, Chris, I have a question. Why did you decide to even bring on Kyle? Like
02:46:32what do you what what is it about this topic that you think is prevalent today? What can we takeaway from this? Well, I think I don't know. I think one of the things that I got was reading thearticle is about like one of the ways like what one of the things you see in how settler colonialismgets perpetuated. And I think why am I now forgetting the name of the decolonization isnot a metaphor. It talks about this a lot, which yeah, I'll talk about that another time someday.But like one of the things that you get like immediately is the sort of is the settle andmove to innocence. And that strikes me as like the sort of it's the kind of likeit's the kind of perspective that you see, I think running across all of these board games. And
02:47:30I think it is actually really helpful to sort of, you know, like the way you break that and thenthe way you start to get actually that actually looks like decolonization, it has to start withpeople like actually like realizing what they're doing and not being able to sort of likeretreat to this position of innocence and being sort of confronted by it. And I think thatthat is a place where media can actually like be very helpful because, you know, like most andmost mostly like it's almost always working the opposite direction, right? But it's somethingwhere you can actually have this sort of, I don't know, it's a part of the cultural sphere where youcould like very easily put someone into a role that is not the one that they're normally doing
02:48:15and get them to like realize that like what they're doing is like fucked. So yeah, yeah.Yeah, I mean, I could say the first when I was in high school and playingCellars of Fertan for the first time, I didn't realize the, like it took me a while to understandthat like, oh, I'm a colonialist, like invaded this territory. And well, because they presentedas default innocence and also just like exciting to, there's no backstory to how you get the woodor the ore or anything else. You just like somehow build a road, you somehow have a town,there is no backstory as to who you're destroying in the process. And I think it infiltrates inyour mind to the point where you subconsciously just deem that as normal. And it's definitely not
02:49:07unique, you know, it's definitely like, it's only just another tendril of reinforcing stuff that wehear from the rest of our culture. So broadly, you know, that it's just, this is just one aspect,one expression, I should say, of how many millions of different ways we get colonialismreinforced to us as a normal, natural part of the world. And, you know, from, you know, cowboy moviesto just like the way the New York Times will write about who owns land and who has a viableclaim on owning a piece of land. All of that, you know, we get reinforced to us in our fiction,our nonfiction every day. And I guess, again, that's part of I guess why I was drawn toboard games in particular for this, because it's so transparent. You know, it's so
02:49:56transparent how all the propaganda works, like it's not, there's no movie magic.Yeah. Yeah, the rules are all there. It's pretty much, I don't know.But yeah, but you sympathized with, and I didn't know, you empathize with the colonizer,because they're who you are. Yeah, you want to win. You want to win. You want to win.I'm very competitive. You want to win. And they get to, and the people who made it get to havethis kind of like discourse, this kind of badge of like, oh, yeah, we made like the friendlyboard game, you know, they're comparing themselves to, you know, making monopoly where like,there's like a 50-50 chance of a divorce happening every time somebody finishes the game with
02:50:40monopoly. And, you know, they get to portray themselves as the nice ones. And it's like,yeah, we're the nice ones, because all the people who were being mean to don't get a voice at all.I just can't believe we made a game about paying rent. Like, I really cannot believe that.Do you know the history of it? Because it's very funny.I skimmed in your, in your articles, like about it a little bit, but it was called something thatwas much more to the point. What was it called? The Landlord's Game. Excuse me? Yeah, the Landlord'sGame by Elizabeth Maggi. She was a Georgist activist in the like early 20th century.Fucking Georgism. Monopoly being the most relevant contribution of
02:51:29Georgism to world history is somehow incredibly fitting.That's all to the way from it. Brutal. The number one selling economicsbook of American history, because reviews to a very bad board game. I can't say it's unfair.And I guess that that's really what I've got is that, like, it's, I think it's still,I think it's very valuable to be a critical consumer. Andwhen Boston maybe went over the line, but for the most part these games haven't likeruined my ability to enjoy them. If my friends want to play a game of Settlers of Catan,they might just get an annoying lecture from me. But they're going to get an annoying lecture from
02:52:08me anyway. It just would be about something else. I mean, it's like any media, like film,TV or whatever, you're going to realize eventually that you should be conscious of what you're consuming.So, and yeah, I'll still get into arguments about all of those things.Now, except for, except for podcasts, people should blindly consume our podcast.Oh, I mean, I mean, yes, podcasts are the only true proletarian art form.That's right. That's right. As Karl Marx said, listen to this podcast, like and subscribe,share us on Facebook. And then, and then eventually one day podcast will wither awayinto bullish itself. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Classic Marxist podcast theory.
02:52:50That's right. That's right. Is that the episode? Well, Kyle, where do people find you?Yes, I personally am notoriously hard to find on the Internet, being a person who doesn't haveany social media whatsoever. I'm proud of you. Absolutely the right call. I have been off ofTwitter for a couple of days. I'm taking a break and best, best decision you could make. Get awayfrom all of it. Our publication is at strangematters.coop. We worked hard to get that.coopregistration. We just published on Thursday, a couple of days ago, Love as a Verb, an articlereviewing and expanding the possibilities of Bell Hook's All About Love, 2000 book All About Love,which is worth reading, both the review and the book. Yeah, I actually just finished it
02:53:44four hours ago. Oh, yeah, I read it for the first time during the pandemic. It was, yeah.It's an enlightening read. It's an enlightening read. We tend to have a lot of really insaneeconomic stuff. If you want to read some truly insane shit about money, about where money comesfrom and what money is and what we can do about money, oh boy, we've got you covered.We have a profile of Robert, where we have rendered him as Baron Munchausen, very flatteringly.A really wonderful review of three different cyberpunk works by the wonderful anti-fascistauthor, Elizabeth Sandifer. Yeah, so please come check us out at strangematters.coop.If for, we are taking new writers all the time and we've got submission guidelines on there.
02:54:39And if you want to personally send me hate mail for besmirching the good honor of Settlers ofCatan, I can be reached at kyleatstrangematters.coop. Yeah. Oh, and we do have a Twitter for thecompany. Yeah. What's the Twitter for the company? It is strange underscore matters.Perfect. Thanks, Kyle. Check out Strange Matters. Contribute to their fundraiser.I can't, I can't recommend doing anything on Twitter, so I simply shut up.And thank you, thank you for having me on again. It was a lovely time.Thank you for coming. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Again, as with every episode, go with Christ.Hello, welcome to It Could Happen Here. This is part two of a, I guess, two part series
02:55:43about Dallas, Texas. Finally, we're getting in a Dallas, Texas resident to refute some of this,this slander. Sure. I guess my, my, my flawless hometown.I've, I've spent a few summers in Dallas. Formerly briefly host to Bernie Sanders when hehad to take care of something. I, I've, I've spent a few summers in Dallas. I've, I've been aroundthe, that's unfortunate. I've been around the DFW area. I wouldn't recommend spending summers inDallas. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I wouldn't recommend spending winters in Dallas either.There's a couple of weeks in spring that it's tolerable to be in Dallas. Try to make it then.It occurs to me that we should ask Garrison, where were you when they killed JFK?
02:56:29I was, I, I'm. Yeah, Garrison. I was, I was born in the 21st century. What have you evermail ordered a Mannlicher Carcano rifle in the back of American Rifleman magazine?Okay. Let's, let's open by, by first briefly talking about the 31 dorky ass neo-nazis whogot arrested in Idaho, who are planning to. You just said that you missed that episode and youwant to talk about it. That's right. That is exactly why we've already done the episode,but I'm always down to talk about this. I know we've just did an episode talking about it,but I wasn't on that one. So I, I have a few paragraphs on how it relates to today's topicof Christian fascist violence. I just want to state that you and I were both hanging out at
02:57:12a party when we got the news about that. And it is the hardest I have ever seen you laughfor like four hours. So, and, and hey, like Patriot Front's based on a Texas. So that,that also connects it to the. There is a degree of relevance here. Yes.To the bulk of our, of our topic today. So yeah, I think it's pretty funny because a group ofover 30 fascists all dressed in the same outfit. It's almost incomprehensibly funny.Tray didn't saw this so they wouldn't pass out while crammed into a hot sweaty U-Haul truck,driving from all around the country to court lane Idaho, so that they could march aroundwith flags and shields to yell at gay and trans kids. And you know what they did instead?
02:57:55Mm hmm. They got pulled over and sat in a ditch while getting their little clad hood masks takenoff and spit the rest of a day in an Idaho jail and all kind of talks. It's really funny. It'sreally funny, especially since again, their best case scenario was spending a day free incourt lane Idaho. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll be like, you can be against cops in thecarceral system while still recognizing how innately absurd and hilarious scenario is.Yeah, it's, it's fine. Look, when cops and groups like Patriot Front beef, that's generally awin-win for me. Yeah, I'm not cheering on police tactics. It's just, it's just recognizing thatone of my enemies temporarily making another one of my enemies lives harder is pretty funny.
02:58:45It's really funny. It's the same reason that we don't condemn police violence when a cop shootsanother cop. Exactly. Yeah. It's blue on blue violence. It's just funny. And like,based on these charges, I doubt any of these guys in particular will go to prison for longenough to form any like dangerous connections with other incarcerated people. Well, I'm surethere's a couple of dudes in there that if, you know, they were to go to a serious prison could makemeaningful inroads with the Nazis there. But man, most of those dudes, Aryan nations guys are justkind of like they're not going to consider comrades. Like the, the, yeah, it's yeah. I think, I thinkthe Patriot Front Idaho situation seems like it'll have mostly just been inconvenience and
02:59:31national embarrassment for them. And I think, and I think we can, we can let this one just be asfunny as it is considering there was 30 less Nazis there to intimidate and attack people at pride.And Patriot Front may be now less willing to pull stunts like this in the future.Yeah, I've thought about this a lot and I just can't see any ways in which what has happenedcould really be a problem. It seems to just purely be funny. So just enjoy it.Yeah, look, look, this is what happens when you appropriate lesbian culture. You get arrested.Actually, that's not all that different from what Garrison was saying immediately after the arrest.That is true. I made a lot of jokes about how Patriot Front looks pretty,
03:00:14pretty gay while getting handcuffed. Wow. Get the, shine the cancel radar.Get the cancelometer out. We're canceling Garrison. Anyway, let's, let's continue with this episode.So here is some other fun facts about, about the whole Idaho thing. So two of the Patriot Frontmembers who were crabbed into that U-Haul last weekend were connected to a church helmed byformer Washington state representative Matt Shea, who's also associated with the Bundy's,the Oath Keepers and leads the church at Planned Parenthood. He has advocated like civil war ifabortion and same-sex marriage aren't stopped. Yeah, kill all the men in left-wing cities,all that good stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was also present at the protest in Coeur d'Alene
03:00:59at the Pride event this past weekend. And we can, we can draw like this direct line from the surgeof groomer and anti-drag propaganda to neo-Nazis deciding to organize and travel across straightlines to threaten people at a Pride event. In the days leading up to the event, Chai Rychek,the woman behind the Libs of Tiktok account, repeatedly highlighted it, weaponizing pearlclutching satanic panic in Rychek's first post about the Pride event. It was about how thesatanic temple was promoting the event in an ad-leaded tweet by someone claiming to representlocal Satanists. On June 7th, Libs of Tiktok posted, quote, family-friendly drag dance partybeing promoted by the satanic temple in Idaho. We are living in hell, which is a nice, a nice
03:01:44little pun there that I can't quite tell if that was intentional or unintentional about satanictemple and living in hell. Anyway, I thought that was funny. Dave Riley, a white supremacist whoattended the deadly Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, who also organized with identityEuropa a few years back. He actively solicited Libs of Tiktok to draw attention to the Prideevent and sought her help in trying to get publicity for the protests against it. Quotingthe SPLC hate watch, quote, the Idaho Tribune, also drew attention to it. Idaho Tribune,far from a real newspaper, is to obscure junk news publication that on multiple occasions haspromoted Riley's political activism. Anti-racist activists also tipped hate watch off to infrastructural
03:02:33overlap between a website that promotes Riley by name and Idaho Tribune. Hate Watch reviewedthe source code for Dave Riley's website and the Idaho Tribune site and confirmed that the two sitesshare graphics from the same web hosting account, meaning that they are likely controlled by thesame person, unquote. And then on June 9th, Libs of Tiktok posted screenshots taken from the IdahoTribune about the satanic temple and the quarterly pride event, boosting content from that whitesupremacist-linked website to her 1.2 million followers. Every single one of these figures,using fascist rhetoric, and utilizing stochastic methods, including Chaya Reicheck, her financialbacker, Seth Dillon, and people like Tucker Carlson, are all responsible for inciting events like
03:03:16this. Tucker led his show last week by using a Nazi reference when referring to a Pride event inDallas. In terms of stuff that's outside of conservative states like Idaho or Texas, latelast month, Reicheck, as Libs of Tiktok, targeted a Bay Area Drag Queen storytime event, which isexactly what it sounds like. It's Drag Queen's reading children's books to kids in a publiclibrary. And then on June 12th, it was stormed by a group of around 10 men dressed in Pradboy attireand shirts that read, kill your local pedophile. They threatened attendees while shouting homophobicand transphobic slurs, terrifying a bunch of kids who would come to hear Queen's read stories.So how did this kind of stuff and how did this rhetoric spread so quickly? How did this groomer
03:04:03stuff get so volatile so quickly just in these past few months? In our War on Transpeople episodesand my Operation Prideful episodes, we discussed the history of this sort of like save the childrenand like pedophile rhetoric. And in my City of Hate episode earlier this week, we talked abouthow this wave of homophobia was able to write off the conspiracism of Pizzagate and QAnon.And then in this episode, we're going to talk about the types of places that this extremebigotry was able to fester this past decade and how it relates to evangelical Christianityand Christian fascism. I'm going to play an audio clip from a city council meeting in Arlington,Texas that happened on May 25th. Take a listen.
03:05:15Hate pride, hate evil, pride and arrogance and the evil way and the forward mouth do I hate.According to God, we should hate pride not celebrate it. We should humble ourselves asvirtually the whole room said that we were a nation under God according to the American flagand we were a state under God according to the Texas flag. We should humble ourselves to whatthe Bible says and not what the small minority here that is bullied would say. In June of 2020,Mayor Jeff Williams officially announced he seps a pride month in June for the City of Arlington.But I don't understand why we'd celebrate what used to be a crime not long ago. In fact, accordingto the Texas penal code, in section 21, not to be respectful, homosexual conduct, a person
03:06:08commits an offense to be engaged in deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the samesex. In fact, that is still on the books today, even though Lawrence v. Texas overruled that in2003. But God has already ruled that murder, adultery, witchcraft, rape, bestiality, and homosexualityare crimes worthy of capital punishment. Arlington, just for context, is one of manytowns in North Dallas that if you happen to have weed on you, you're going to want to tape it tothe bottom of your balls before driving through Arlington. Thanks for that great weed tip fromRobert Evans. You're welcome. You're welcome, Garrison. So that is Pastor Jonathan Shelley,who lives in Grand Prairie. He was there at an Arlington, Texas City Council meeting,
03:06:56casually advocating killing gay people while citing Texas's laws against homosexuality.Their church and this connected branch of Baptists that we'll learn more about laterhave an intense record of preaching genocide against gay and trans people and also a fair amountof anti-Semitism, big, big shocker there. The previous pastor at this church, which was calledSteadfast Baptist Church, but the previous pastor, who resigned in 2019 due to allegations that hepaid for sex workers, was involved in gambling and had smoked marijuana. I guess he should havehe should have taped more of it to his balls. He garnered national attention for celebrating theOrlando Pulse Gay Nightclub Massacre, which killed 49 people. From the pulpit, the pastor said that
03:07:43God should finish the job and referred to the murdered patrons as esotomites, perverts, andpedophiles. The new pastor, John Shelley, continues this same strain of preaching violence againstgay people. This next clip is from June 2021, right after someone died after getting hit by atruck at a Pride Parade in Florida, which we later found out was a complete accident,but I don't think the public knew that at the time. No, and obviously people, I mean, I thinkall of our assumptions was, oh God, you know, this is the thing. Yeah, well, here's the clip.If it's going beyond just saying you do all this wicked stuff, it's saying you enjoy it.You enjoy murder. You enjoy malignity. You enjoy hating God. Look, there's only one group that
03:08:30enjoys that. It's the Pride Parades going up down the street. And you know, it's great whentrucks accidentally go through those, you know, parades. I think only one person died. So hopefullywe can hope for more in the future. You say, oh, that's mean. Yeah, but the Bible says that they'reworthy of death. You say, are you sad when fags die? No, I think it's great. I hope they all die.I would love it if every fag would die right now. And you say, well, I don't think that's what youreally mean. That's exactly what I mean. I really mean it. So yeah, it's important to remember likethat's June 2021. So even a year before the big wave of groomer stuff got pushed this past springwith the help of lives of TikTok. And that kind of shows how susceptible modern conservatism was
03:09:18to this resurgence of in your face, homophobia. There's been people to working to like keep ithere the whole time, just bubbling beneath the surface. And now it's just completely boiledover. And I'm going to say like the rest of the episode is going to get into some pretty dark stuff.There's going to be a few more clips that are pretty gross. If you want to check out,that's totally fine. After this episode, I myself, I'm going to take a little bit of a breakfrom covering this sort of thing because it's taking a little bit too much of a mental toll.Because it's a lot of genocide. It's pretty intense.If you do feel the need to leave before you go, just remember this simple phrase for keeping
03:10:01safe in the DFW area. Tape it to your balls and your happiness won't be smalls.So here's another clip from June 2021 of Shelley reiterating his call for the government toexecute gay people after he received some public backlash for his, the previous clip that we,that we used. And I personally believe that all of these sodomites, you know, people that are menwith men are pedophile because that means that they just simply are attracted to children. They'reattracted to these people that are the ages of 17, 16, 15, 14, 13. Even though they're a grown adult,they're going after children and very young children often cases and molesting them andhurting them. And, you know, anybody that loves children, loves their family would want this person
03:10:49to be executed through the proper channels. That's what I believe. That's what I teach.I'm not a violent person. So my kind of fear is that Shelley or someone like, you know, John Doylethat we talked about in our last city of hate episode is not that they themselves will bringa weapon to some future pride parade or go on a rampage and assault or kill gay people, right?It's that one of their followers or one of their fans will. And these types of pastorsand far right media figures are intentionally leading people on to that outcome to quote HeyMetta, who's been tracking steadfast for years, quote, because while Shelley is celebrating murder,he's also handing his congregation a metaphorical loaded gun. And if somebody eventually uses a
03:11:35literal one to follow through on what they believe to be God's orders, they know that Shelley willbe proud of them, even as he tells the world he has absolutely nothing to do with it, unquote.So under the pressure of activists, steadfast actually got evicted from their old buildingin Hearst, Texas this past March for spreading their extreme anti LGBT hate and calls for violence,which was in violation of the terms of its lease, which prohibited violence and threats.The church has an active gab page, which kind of tells you a little bit about the peoplerunning this sort of operation. Instead, fast publicly organized and livestreamed their sermonson a very active Facebook page, which is no longer active for reasons that we will later discuss.
03:12:19And then during these past few months, they've relocated their church from Hearst to a buildingthat's part of a strip mall in Watega, Texas. Is that how I'm saying it, Robert?Yeah, that's the thing about any town in Texas is you doesn't have, it doesn't matter how youpronounce it because they're Texans. Watega. Do whatever you want. Fuck them.Anyway, they're now a strip mall church, which I think is a good look for them.I mean, you're okay. I will correct you here. You're saying that like it's funny as opposedto just the way everything is in Texas because Texas is a giant strip mall.Yeah, I guess so. And while John Shelley is pretty bad, right? We've heard a lot of bad
03:13:02clips of him talking about how gay people are pedophiles and how they should all be killedby the government. He's not the only guy that said fast preaching violent and genocidal rhetoric.Enter Dylan Oz, a formerly based out of Boise, Idaho, now preaching at Steadfast Baptist Churchin Watega, Texas. On Sunday, June 4th, Dylan Oz, while preaching from the pulpit, said that thequote, solution for the homosexual is for the government to execute every single gay person.What does God say is the answer is the solution for the homosexual in 2022,here in the New Testament, here in the book of Romans, that they are worthy of death.These people should be put to death. Every single homosexual in our country should be
03:13:57charged with the crime, the abomination of homosexuality that they have.They should be convicted in a lawful trial. They should be sentenced with death.They should be lined up against the wall and shot in the back of the head.That's what God teaches. That's what the Bible says. You don't like it. You don't like God's work,because that is what God says. I don't think that the Bible says anything about guns, actually.It's been a while since I read the King James version that Steadfast exclusively uses.So maybe it's like a translation thing, but I don't remember anything about shooting orbullets or guns inside my Bible. But speaking of translation things, I'm going to go in a
03:14:38little theology rant here about quote-unquote lying with man or lying with men, and how scholarsactually believe if you look at the original biblical texts, not the crap like the KingJames version and the nonsense based off that horrible translation, but the chapter is wherepeople pull stuff supposedly condemning men for laying with men and quote-unquote homosexuality,which is obviously like a very modern word. It does not belong in a text as old as the Bible,like that just didn't exist yet. But those passages would probably more accurately translate tocondemning adult men who rape young boys. And even if they didn't, even if it was about adult menwith other adult men, I don't fucking care. And neither should most Christians, because Christians
03:15:21are not following all of the laws of Leviticus, nor should they. That shit was for Israelitesthousands of years ago to make their culture distinct from other surrounding nations.Like Christians aren't railing against the use of mixed fabric for Christ's sake.Yeah, are you not supposed to use shrimp, too?There's a lot of stuff.Yeah, I believe in eating shrimp, but I think if you use mixed fabrics, you should be executed.You should be lied to against a wall and shot in the back of the head if you use-Absolutely. That's the only thing that anyone using mixed fabrics, death penalty, instantly.
03:15:52Yeah, so like, obviously, there's not these churches preaching against mixed fabric.Here's Christian preacher Dylan Oz, again, justifying his calls for the execution of gay peopleby falsely claiming, obviously, that all homosexuals are pedophiles.Here's the thing. Here's why reprobates, here's why homosexuals are so dangerous to society.They're not like other sinners in the sense that every single day that they are alive,they're being filled with more and more and more unrighteousness.That is a scary thing. You want to know why we say that all homosexuals are pedophiles?And let me make that very clear. All homosexuals are pedophiles.
03:16:38And people say, well, what about all the straight people that molest children?They're fucks. I don't care what you call them.If a person is with a child, you're a fuck. You're a reprobate. You're a sodomite.I don't care what kind of classifications our government wants to give them.All homosexuals are pedophiles. Now, here's the thing. Here's what I'm not saying.I'm not saying that every single homosexual that's alive right now has committed that actwith a child already, because it could be that they haven't had the opportunity yet,and they will at some point later in their life. This is why we need to put these people to death
03:17:13through the proper channels of the government, because the Bible says that they are being filled.So here's the thing. Yes, maybe not every single homosexual has been with a child yet,but what about tomorrow when they're filled with a little more unrighteousness?What about in a week from now when they're filled with a little more unrighteousness?What about 20 years from now? What are they going to be like?You look up the statistics on these sodomites that abuse children,they're with so many children, it'll make you grow up.Disgusting. These people are not normal. They're not your average everyday sinners.
03:17:44They're what the Bible calls reprobates. They're rejected by God. They have no hope of salvation.So in 2021, John Shelley with the Steadfast Baptist Church, with the help of a networkof aggressively homophobic churches, made a two-hour quote-unquote documentary about how toquote, protect your children called, and it's the title is called The Sodomite Deception.See, all right, look, if we're going to, look, if we're going to do this thing where there'slicenses for people to buy guns, can we have there be a license to make a documentary?Can we marry that too?So the quote-unquote Sodomite Deception claims to expose how the LGBTQ community is contributing
03:18:34to the collapse of modern society, which I mean, based. The trailer opens with a real banger.Most Americans are repelled by the mere notion of homosexuality.The CBS News Survey shows that two out of three Americans look upon homosexuals with disgust,discomfort, or fear. One out of 10 says hatred.The documentary celebrates historical laws that criminalize homosexuality and criticizesmore recent laws that expand LGBTQ rights. In the film, Shelley advocates for the death penaltyto be used on the LGBTQ community and uses, you know, many, many slurs across this whole thing.All of, all of them use all kinds of slurs, as I'm sure we've heard this past episode.
03:19:15The pastors of other churches, part of the new independent fundamental Baptist movement,also featured in the documentary. Here's a collection of said pastors screaming in thetrailer for the Sodomite Deception. Oh, thank you, Garrison. Thank you for playing us a trailerof people screaming. That's going to be fun. Starting off with Shelley saying, quote,why aren't all these Baptists standing up and saying these freaks should go back to hell,should go back in the closet, put a bullet in your head? Why aren't they saying it?Because some of, some of what he says is hard to hear. So I'm just saying that for you guys.So you know what he's saying. Anyway, here's some, here's some of the trailer. It's pretty funny.
03:19:53Why aren't all these Baptists standing up and saying these freaks should go back to hell,go back to the closet, put a bullet in your head? Why aren't they saying it?It's time to call a faggot, a faggot, a transvestite, a disgusting dog.No homos will ever be allowed on this church as long as I'm the pastor here.Never! Is the law of the Lord perfect or is it not?It's perfect. And what did he say? Put them to death.You know, people say like, well, aren't you sad that 50 sodomites died? Here's the problem withthat. It's like the equivalent of asking me, you know, what have you asked me? Hey, are you sad
03:20:31that 50 pedophiles were killed today? No, I think that's great. I think that helps society.You know, I think Orlando, Florida is a little safer tonight. Now that 50, you know, the tragedyis that more of them than die. I mean, the tragedy is I'm kind of upset that he didn't finish the jobbecause these people are predators. So yeah, that sucks. But man, there is just a lot ofa lot of like men in their 40s screaming about gay people. They seem really concerned.Yes. Yeah. Someone in that clip is noted homophobe and the Holocaust denier Stephen Anderson,who of a faithful word Baptist church, he's he's the guy shrieking, never, never.Anyway, steadfast church members and pastors have continued to show up at city council meetings
03:21:29in multiple cities throughout the Dallas, Fort Worth area. This past Monday, people associated withthe church as well as residents opposing steadfast's bigotry spoke at a city council meeting inWatuga, Texas. I'm here today to let the council know of the Haker that has entered their city.This Haker group is called steadfast Baptist church. It was in June of 2021 that I first cameacross the offensive defamation against women and the LGBTQ community. The hate statements,videos, and social media posts prompted me to join the protest that started in Hearstand now has moved to your city. And I apologize for this, but this is quoting him. They are alldirty, disgusting, skank horse. In another video, he also states that women in positions of leadership
03:22:13and authority are actually a curse upon our nation. Council members at the very least,you should encourage the strip mall owner, cider property of Dallas to revoke this church's lease.So yeah, there was there was kind of like this back and forth at this city council meeting,multiple, multiple people from steadfast responded by screaming into the mic and continuing toadvocate the execution of gay people. One guy that I'll quickly play a clip of is Philip Milstredof steadfast. He went further and made a veiled threat of violence. The city of Watuga and itspolice officers are allowing this community, this side of my community to intimidate churchmembers from worshiping God the way he should be worshiped in truth. And if you don't do something,
03:22:59something will happen bad. So that's fun. It's also a strong, strong definition of the word veiled.Well, I mean, like in terms like obviously they're talking about execution and genocide.He's talking about like actually doing physical like actually like as vigilantes doing physicalviolence, which is different because steadfast usually tries to frame their violence withinlike it's okay because it's a part of the government, right? So when they're like talkingabout just doing like vigilantism or like saying like, we're going to take this into our own hands,right? It's a little bit different. Watuga mayor Arthur Minor this past Tuesday said that he isdiscussing the status of steadfast Baptist church with the city attorney while also stating that
03:23:45the attorney has told him that it's a First Amendment issue so that there's quote,nothing that the city can do at this time, but we are looking at other avenues unquote.I mean, that's to be that's probably probably fair. Yeah, it's hard to make a church leave a place.Yeah. So he did not he did not elaborate further than that, but he did encourage people to bringup the issue with the the person holding steadfast's lease at this strip mall in Watuga.Yeah. Let is let us go on another ad break. Do you know who won't shriek at gay people andcall on the government to kill them? Hopefully these these these ads hopefully mean not foranother couple of years. Yeah, well, that's why I said hopefully. Okay, so let's let's talk a bit
03:24:37more about this this church's ideology and this network that it's associated with because it isactually kind of interesting. So steadfast Baptist church is part of Stephen Anderson's church networkcalled the new independent fundamental Baptist movement, which I'm just going to call the newIFB because those are way too many words. And they claim it's not like a denomination, but rathera revival of what the old independent fundamentalist Baptist movement once represented unquote.The new IFB churches just like the old IFB churches use the King James Bible exclusively.And the old IFB movement was founded in the 40s and was trying to reclaim the fundamentalismof the 1920s. And so we're just we're going back from the 2020s to the 1920s in terms of
03:25:33their social views times the flat circle. So I'm going to I'm going to quote a little bit from theADL, which of course is very hit and miss as an organization. But they did. But they dida they do have a they do have a decent article on the new IFB churches, because this is likespecifically the thing they focus on is this sort of anti Semitism. So anyway, quote, the new IFBideology promotes the anti Semitic notion that Jews today are imposters who are not the true Jewsdescribed in the Bible, which by the way is awfully close to Christian identity. I mean,that is essentially just Christian identity. It's very, very similar. I think the new IFB stuffis slightly different. It comes from a slightly different direction. It's like the difference
03:26:21between the Episcopals and Catholics, but they reach a very similar conclusion. Like, I don'tthink they believe that Christians are like the true Jews and they don't talk about like Aryansand stuff. And they're not doing British Israelism, but they think that Judaism is the synagogue ofSatan. But it's like, well, some of them do use the term the synagogue of Satan. Yeah. But like,you know, they hate Judaism because as a religion, it's made up of Jews who do not recognize Jesusas the Messiah. So therefore they are not truly descendants of Israel, right? They come at itfrom more of that direction, but it is still extremely close to Christian identity. Like, itis, it is, it is just a tiny hop of a pond. Like they kiss and cousins for sure. No, they like,
03:27:07they are so, they are absolutely in the same networks because they are preaching very similarideology. Back to the back, back to the ADL quote, they often claim that Jews today worship Satanand that the star of David represents the devil. The new IFB doctrine promotes the notion of anantichrist whom they claim will be Jewish in their sermons. Various new, various new IFB pastorsoften openly state that they hate Judaism as a religion. And in addition to criticizing Judaism,many new IFB pastors also promote anti-Semitic tropes about Jewish power and control oversectors like finance, news, media and journalism. New IFB pastors have also promoted Holocaustdenial. In 2015, Pastor Stephen Anderson presented a number of false claims in a video specifically
03:27:56addressing the so-called quote, Holocaust hoax, unquote, saying, the numbers don't add up, thefacts don't add up. Anderson alleged that quote, some Jews were among the many quote, casualtieson both sides. Well, all lives did matter. But he blamed those deaths on starvation and poorconditions, claiming that quote, just because people were rounded up and put in forced labor campsdoes not mean that they were systemically exterminated or cremated to the tune of six million,unquote. Unlike many in the evangelical movement, the new IFB churches are staunchly anti-Zionistand anti-Israel. They decry Zionism as quote, Jew worship, unquote, and view the traditionalsupport for Israel among evangelical Christians as a result of Jewish deception in support of the
03:28:46anti-Christ. Oh, but they have a ton of opinions about the sinking of the USS Liberty.In line with their broader anti-Semitic views of Judaism as a false and evil religion,the modern nation of Israel is regularly characterized as wicked and a fraud, unquote.And they do not dislike Israel because Israel commits genocide against Palestinian people,because as we've stated, they're very pro-genocide as a concept. Yeah. And to be honest, probablypretty pro-genocide of the Palestinian people. Yeah, they just not that way. Yeah. So that's alittle, little write up on what this network of churches believes. Like everyone you heard talkinside the Sodomite deception trailer is part of this network of churches. They're all across the
03:29:32South, some of them are in some of them are in like California, Arizona, Idaho, Oklahoma, Texas,you know, lots of other Southern states. And if you want to carry out a Sodomite deception,tape your drugs to your junk when you drive through Texas.So thankfully churches like these are not standing unopposed, specifically in the DallasFort Worth area. There has been a number of protests at the church's old location, whichresulted in them getting evicted and protests at their new location. I'm going to play some audiofrom, from protests that have taken, taken place over the course of the past few weeks.We're here to protest steadfast Baptist church, which is a registered hate group here in Texas
03:30:20on splcenter.org. We protested them in Hearst for nine months. We found them here. And so we areback every Wednesday and every Sunday. I am a mom of a kid from the LGBTQ community. And I am notgoing to stand for you wishing death upon my kid just because of who he is and who he is.It's extremely exhausting. But at the same time, it's very reassuring because we get nothing butsupport from the people on the street that drive by and give us plenty of humps and waves. Andit's just so much love and support from the people that live in the community here as well as Hearst.That's my city. So it's very personal. And I've noticed that we've gotten a lot of new peoplecoming out here because this is their city and it's personal. So that's, that's pretty good to
03:31:08hear that there's actually people standing up to, to say, Hey, these guys suck in person.There probably should be more people going in person because once you, like the church isobviously facing a lot of, a lot of confrontations like online and stuff, right? They're facing alot of online pushback. But once you bring that into the real world, it definitely,it's a totally different thing in terms of how, how they're being viewed. I mean, in some ways,you know, they enjoy being persecuted, right? They enjoy the notion of Christian persecution,but also it's great to have, you know, people waving pride flags outside their little churchevery Sunday. The church still has an active Instagram page and it still has a Twitter account,
03:31:51but their actual tweets do keep getting taken down for hate speech. A week ago, YouTubestriked said fasts main channel where they post videos and sermons as they weren't able to usetheir main channel on Facebook. They began promoting their second YouTube channel as aplatform to stream their murderous anti gay hate sermons during Pride month. And a few days afterI posted about that on Twitter, their secondary YouTube got completely banned. And then aftera few days, their Facebook page was also taken down. So they are, they do have, they do have ashrinking online presence. There's this other clip from the Sotomight deception trailer that I thinkreally gives you a peek into the minds of these folks who are pushing this sort of stuff. And
03:32:35you can even see this the same sentiment in the rise of white nationalism and white supremacythis past decade. And my question is, why are we embracing all this change as Christians?Did the Bible change? Did the Bible radically change 10 years ago? My King James Bible hasn'tchanged the word when it was translated in 1611 period. So why in the world is everything changing?It's not from God. That's for sure. You know, it's coming from the working of Satan.He's deceiving people, thinking all of its normalness. So our challenge as people who are,you know, anti fascists, people who stand against, you know, or anti racist pushback against thistype of anti queer organizing, our challenge is to keep the change coming and to push back
03:33:26against these freaks trying to hold on to the 20th century, right? The fear of change and the fearof the future is driving their, you know, desire to return to the past. The train of like socialprogress was moving forward over the course of the past 20 years and they're scared and they'retrying to stop it and move it backwards. And it's up to us to make that as hard as possible.But yeah, that is, that is my, that is my stuff on, on said fast church. I'm now going to openup, open up the floor to anyone. Robert, Chris, what do you guys think of all of the stuff wejust heard about to fast 30 minutes? Well, one of the keys is you want to use tape that has a goodlevel of adhesion, but isn't going to actually damage your skin. Really? Yeah. Like scotch tape,
03:34:19what are we doing here? Scotch tape will do okay. You really want to avoid duct tape, but somethinglike painter's tape generally isn't going to have the adhesion that you need. It's going to be alittle bit unpleasant anytime you're taking tape off of it. And I do recommend actually puttingit like more in the taint area or the inner thigh. You're going to have a better, better experience.You might want to shave that inner thigh if you're not somebody who does normally,just so that you have a better time getting your drugs free, but you know, crotch it.That's always been my motto, just crotch it. Again, great, great, great, great,great Texas insight coming, coming out of Robert Evans here. No, I mean, like, okay, so seriously,
03:34:57the fact that there's been resistance to these folks in the street and that it's beensignificant that they've like, not just people showing up to yell at them and approach them inthe moment, but people, you know, working to get them kicked out of their locations and stuff.That's really good. And that's, that's honestly more the Texas that I have known than, or atleast it's as much of the Texas that I've known as like the shitty things that this says aboutTexas. Yeah. First protest I ever went to was against a church like this, who you've probablyheard of the Westboro Baptist Church, when they showed up to protest at the Holocaust Museum.And it was like, like hundreds of people showed up to like, and there were like six of those
03:35:44fuckers. So, I mean, the problem with Texas has never been that there aren't a lot ofawesome people in Texas. It's that folks like this, these who really want to use the mechanisms ofthe state to carry out a genocide have a lot of friends in high places. And many of those folksspent decades in sharing that it's basically impossible for anybody else to win electionoutside of like, you know, local elections and cities and stuff, which often city governmentsin Texas, again, if you look at a lot of the reaction to Abbott's anti trans bills and wherewill be sort of the actual resistance as Texas's anti gay legislation gets more extreme is incities like Dallas and Austin and Houston and like local laws and local elected leaders as well
03:36:37as local activists who represent an awful lot of Texas, but and, you know, don't have any realpower in the levers of the state, but do tend to stand up and in a lot of cases like people didfor some of these these events in in Dallas recently put their bodies, you know, in betweenfascists and the people they're threatening. And I mean, the new IFB churches are definitelyprobably more extreme or explicit than most of your average Christian churches.But it is not uncommon to preach this general strain of homophobia, maybe turn down like onenotch the dial from the pulpit in the majority of churches specifically in the south.Yeah, you know, you don't say we should be lining these people against wall and killing them,
03:37:28but you say that, you know, this is not biblical, you know, we're supposed to live in a biblicalsociety. And you say everything but that lasts like 10 or 15 percent.Yeah, it's that it is it is not like this strain of homophobia is has been there this this entiretime. And people of feel like they have permission to say things now that they honestly wouldn'tprobably wouldn't have said as explicitly like five years ago. But there was there's always beenpeople working to keep this thing within the culture as as stuff was progressing socially.There was people working to keep this type of bigotry still alive in large sectors of the Americanpublic. And a lot of those sectors are related to evangelical Christianity. And a lot of those
03:38:16sectors are related related to like the communities around church building.So that's like a big part in how Christian fascism has been so effective. The past thatyou know, like the basically the past decade starting starting with the Tea Party is thatthat they've had people with vested interests, like keeping this stuff afloat. I mean,Libs of Tiktok receives her funding from Seth Dillon, the guy who runs the Babylon B,which started as a Christian satire site. Now Elon Musk's favorite place on the internet,which is wild. I mean, but yeah, like, like, you know, like, I remember reading the Babylon Bwhen I was like fucking 12 years old, when I was like a Christian kid, like it was just
03:38:59well, like, like it used to be just a small niche Christian site. And now it grew into this,you know, big powerful force and modern conservatism. It is directly funding Libs of Tiktok,which is basically now just a gun that gets pointed at whatever, you know, target an event thatthat they want. So it's now it's like this completely like astroturf thing with all of thisfunding and people choosing what events to target. So like, it all goes back to this.And it all goes back to these types of churches and this type of this type of rhetoric coming outof, you know, these few misinterpreted biblical passages. It is weird how like, I mean, when Iwas, you know, a teenager, when you talked about like Christian entertainment, Christian comedy,
03:39:45Christian music, Christian media, you meant like the most boring milk toast shit on the planet.Like not that there wasn't toxic and hateful shit within being preached in churches, butlike Christian media was like, was pretty hard to be offended at most of it. And now when yousay that, like you immediately go to like, oh yeah, somebody's trying to get gay people murdered.Yeah, it's something else. Yeah. There's been a large increase in the militancyof Christian propaganda and posing, you know, stuff that used to be just very like very boringmilk, like milk toast and like still very like, you know, patriarchal, heteronormative, you know,probably low key white supremacist is now, yeah, now lots of the propaganda is way more focused
03:40:33in this type of like militant Christianity and focused on, you know, all, all of like the endtimes stuff's gotten so much more, more of a thing. And just how it relates to like physicalviolence against currently living people. Anyway, yeah, that's the, that's the steadfastBaptist church and the Sodomite deception brought to you by people out of Dallas. So yeah, thoseare my, those are my two episodes. I mean, we started first episode this week was part one,last episode this week is part two. So they're spread out, but sandwiched it. Those are, thoseare my two, two episodes on the city of the homophobia and Christian fascism inside the cityof hate. Look, if you want to help out, find the, the addresses of one of these churches.
03:41:24Now the next thing you're going to do is you're going to find a good torrent client and you'regoing to download a DVD rip of Morbius. There's a lot of them out there. Then you're going to burnthat you may need to buy a burner. It's a lot of people aren't going to have this equipment,but you're going to burn that on, do a DVD. You could also put it on a flash drive if youreally wanted. And then you're just going to start mailing those in mass to the church.If we get them enough copies of Morbius, I think we might be able to turn them around.
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