Behind the Bastards - It Could Happen Here Weekly 98

Episode Date: September 2, 2023

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The new season of lies, scandals and skeletons in the closet. I am proud to take office as your first openly gay mayor. This season, it's all out in the open. Listen to Princess of South Beach on the I-Hard Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long

stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome to Kittapun here. I'm Andrew with Future General Andrewism, and I'm here with... Oh, wait, was that the QO no? Yeah, it's tights me me along and Mausler here apparently missing cues instantly I don't know it is barbarically early for me. So yay Barically what time is it?

10 o'clock Come on come on on, come on, come on. Look, it would have been fine if it wasn't up till 3am last night dealing with a session of minor crises. Oh, damn, that's unfortunate. Yeah, it's all right. Otherwise, if it wasn't a crisis, I would have like flexed my early boots per mercy, but you know, I have enough since like seven, six, three or two, I don't know. I was like a whole jog. Now, but I just did my dual angle this one.

Yeah, so today I wanted to shed light on some really interesting history, I think, of the anarchist movement in Egypt. I've read this book called Anarchism and Syntaglism in the colonial and post-colonial world. And there's a section by a guy named Anthony Guaman that I found really interesting and just hard to share. It's released specific to the anarchist Egyptian anarchist history of the late 19th and early 20th century. And I say I find that whole period to be very interesting, partially because I am a dreaded paradox games fan and I enjoy my little, you know, like you three, you know, like that period in history. Honestly, any period of history prior to World War II,

I find interesting. Everything World War II is just like a complete bore to me and then everything passed. World War II is like cool, but seeing the World War II period itself, not my thing. Like, tell me about the Phoenicians, tell me about the finishes, tell me about the frigians, tell me about the cuffed the juniors, but I really care about the axis

and which tank was the superior tank and all those different things. A lot of these couldn't go to history buffs into. Not to piss anyone serial, of course, whatever floats your boat. But for me, I really like that pre-who-watt-two sort of stuff. And Victorian errors, one particularly interesting point in history. And a lot of things were happening that time. Industrial revolution was shaken up around the world. Colonization was going on and the effects of that, but you

know, reverberate for centuries to come. And the true successor to the Roman Empire, in my opinion, the Ottoman Empire, was kind of going through a series of crises and Egypt, which was under the Ottoman Empire, and then free of the Ottoman Empire, had it to and stuff going on. So I don't want to get too much into that wholeness, but I want to give some context because this is a history episode. It might be a two-part history episode in fact. So let's just start, last 19th century. So there's this foreign working community in Egypt, thanks to Muhammad Ali, no relation, and he was the ruler of Egypt from 1805 to 1849. This guy was all about modernizing stuff like the military, the state of administration, and the economy. So he invited skilled folks to come to Egypt and lend their labor. Isn't he the guy that Napoleon fought for a little bit?

I think so. I think so. Who didn't Napoleon fight? I'm sure he could have Napoleon would have fought like the dinosaurs. Yes. Napoleon fighting cavemen on the moon. I think things are amazing. Once speaking of Napoleon, I really don't appreciate how I mean

No disrespect to walk in Phoenix, but it wasn't Napoleon like In his 20s when he rose up the ranks military and all that Like I could be mistaken. I could be confusing him with the other Napoleon But I'm pretty sure Napoleon was not Oh man when he was making a lot of the moves. He was making. Let's see. Again, I could be wrong.

Well, he was more in 1769. I'm leaving. I'm leaving the math as of this is an exercise for the reader. What really threw us me off is that there's like multiple Napoleon's and time mix of the histories of the different Napoleon's. But if it wasn't that Napoleon, I know for sure one of the Napoleon's in question was like relatively young when he was making some of his moves like in his early to mid 20s when he was rising up the ranks kind of thing. Yeah.

But I could be entirely mistaken, I'm sure somebody will correct me. I don't know. None of this is relevant to what this episode is about. But yeah, so Muhammad Ali, again, no relation. His successors Said and Ismail took things to the next level after he passed on with some major infrastructure projects They were building railways, they were expanding canals, they were Gwnwild, the urban development and they needed a bunch of skilled workers for a lot of that So they brought in Italians, Greeks, Syrians, Dalmatians and of course they used their local

Egyptian laborers as well Many of those workers came to work on the famous Suez Canal of course, they used their local Egyptian laborers as well. Many of those workers came to work on the famous Suez Canal, of course, and that required a massive workforce. Many of whom died. Canal digging, I don't know, if everything you've been out of your mind is high, mortality rate, profession. Yeah, you might as well dig your own grave too. Like dig it before you start so they can bury your body halfway through.

Yes. It's like not gallows, humor, it's like canal humor. You know, it's like, oh, we're digging this canal. We're going to die here anyway. It's kind of similar thing I couldn't take it out of the Panama Canal, although in our case, they brought in a lot of vision and other Caribbean workers to set that up. And actually, the day in the Panama Canal is responsible for like, which is responsible for I think a third of the of the Beijing economy at one point

of because the remittances there would be in sent back to their families at home. That's a whole different chapter in history. But yeah, so this massive and evokes workforce is bringing, of course, not just their labor, but ideas, because whenever we get people together, they start talking. Egypt was already considered something of a place of refuge for political exiles. So it's not very surprising that anarchism was starting to gain popularity around that time, particularly with the Italians in Egypt. Yeah, that's the thing. that's the thing in this period. You can literally track the spread of anarchism by where there are a bunch of Italian workers

like Argentina too. It's like anywhere there are Italians, anarchist spreads. It's like it's a me anarchism. Yeah. That's going to set somebody off. My apologies to the Italian community. I shouldn't have said that. Yeah, look, they hadn't invented fascism yet.

This is back when the Italians were so cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm probably going to get a lecture. Hopefully, you know, there's nothing else to attach to it. Italians already had a history with the anarchist movement, as we know. I mean, some people would, of course, be familiar with folks like Erochumalatester. So there's no surprises there.

Labour and political radicalism caught sparks first in the Italian worker society, court sparks first in the Italian worker society, or Societa Oparrao, Italian in 1860, which has formed to look up for the interests of its members. And later on in the mid-1870s, you had these veterans from Garibaldi's campaigns. And by the way, Garibaldi was one of the figures responsible for the Italian unification. And then you also had other radicals,

forming thought and action, or political association with miscini and principles. Miscini, by the way, just happy miscini was an Italian Republican who advocated for liberty and democracy and class collaboration and all that jazz. Mark's once called him an everlasting old ass, which is just really funny and I had to include that there. You just like me for real. Anyway, and then in 1876, more radicals for splinter group became an official section of the first international in Alexandria, which is one of the earliest attempts to create worldwide association of workers and socialist groups.

I don't know if it could happen here as I've ever discussed the history of the international as before, but it gets messy. Oh, God. It's, yeah, it gets messy, it gets cutty, it gets, like we gotta spill that tea at some point. Yeah, it's fucking wild. Like especially, especially once you get into

the 17 different fourth intern nationals, and it's a time like the second international is such a disaster. The Hosni Mubarak is part of it when he gets overthrown. Like it's a, it's, it's, it's a good time. And by a good time, I mean, an incredibly bad time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Honestly, I just have to throw my head back and laugh quite hard to when I hear folks talking about, you know, why can't the laughed unite, you know, like, where's the leftist unity? Why can't we just come to, like, nah,

you know, this has been taken place since 19th century, you know. My absolute favorite version of this is people being like, marks wouldn't want there to have been so much discord on the left. It's like, have you ever read any marks? Like that is a man whose writing is about 60% yelling at someone whose idea is he's also stolen by volume. Like one of his most famous, like one of the things that you get a sign to read from Mark's in college is the German

ideology, which is like 400 pages of him being annoyed by people whose ideas are slightly different than his. It's like, like, this is, this is, this is an ancient tradition. The irony of Mark's calling somebody else in everlasting old ass will not be lost on me. And quite frankly, this idea of, oh, marks wouldn't want this marks would want to talk. That really comes from that sort of messiah vacation of marks. I just coined that too. You know, I can send my flowers in the mail because essentially what people are doing is treating marks and marks ideas and marks is them as just like Christianity 2.0.

It's kind of like how people would have been saying, like, oh, Jesus wouldn't want all this division in the church, except he just replaced in Jesus' Marx and the church with the left. Yeah, like Marx has his famous line where he goes, like if he's responding to like the first French Marxist, and he goes, if this is Marxismism then I am a lot of Marxist Oh, yeah, and everyone proceeded to ignore him because it sells Marxists. It has like well. This is great things have gone This is yeah, yeah, I mean even in their lifetime sort of these figures that we respect no

They didn't really like the admirers like My let's as though it was quite embarrassed that he had fans. I recall. Yeah, to be clear, to be clear, that is the appropriate reaction to having fans. It is a terrifying thing. I sure. Flea and terror. Exactly, exactly.

Back to Alexandria, right, where the F international official section, one of its sections came about. And it was one of the earliest attempts to create a world-wide association of workers and socialist groups and expanded and it formed sections in Cairo and in Port Said and in Ismailia or Ismailia, Ismailia. And they even had the idea of spreading social propaganda in different languages, like Italian and Greek and Turkish and Arabic, to reach more folks in the colon court east. They want to take the ideas of the first international beyond just European communities, you know, try and reach out to the locals. Unfortunately for those familiar the history of the

Fizz International, it fizzled out so they couldn't really fully execute their plans. But you know, you got to get them credit for trying to make a difference beyond their own little circles. Meanwhile, Egypt was in the midst of a deep political crisis. The military was pissed because the disastrous Egypt to Ethiopiaopian war. The upper ranks, the civil service, the army in the business world, had become dominated by Europeans who were paid much more than native Egyptians. The country's inability to service its debt from costly infrastructure projects and lavish spending by its mayle, it's ruled at the time, led to European control over its treasury in 1876. And under European treasure, pressure,

is Maillil was to pose in 1879, replace the son Talfik, who aim to basically satisfy each of his creditors by any means necessary. And so this to mulchers, political climate, provide both challenges and opportunities for the anarchists as a new Egypt. A revolt led by an Egyptian officer of the Egyptian army, Ahmed Urabi, sorted

he posed to a fake, establish a constitutional government and end British and French influence over the country. Although he was characterized as anti-Foreign, Urabi received support from some foreign elements, including the very same Italian workers in Alexandria and a lot of the anarchists in the area. Now, as we know, anarchists are really advocates of nationalism, so they will fight for national liberation causes. So anarchists and nationalists follow themselves on the same side when it came to fighting against European imperialism in Egypt. So in the British were causing trouble, anarchists like Malatester teamed up with nationalists led by Urabi to resist foreign domination.

However, the British and French governments who were intent on protecting the investments and nationals confronted Urabi, which resulted in British forces bombarding Alexandria and eventually occupying the country in 1882. Throughout the early years of British occupation, the anarchists moved when an Egypt faced both internal divisions and factionally zone, both internal divisions and factionally zone. So, that was what was happening in other parts of the world. Anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella of the international during the 1870s, but the defection of particularly

locally influential figure named Andrea Costa from Libertarian Socialism, from Libertarian Socialism 1879, caused a significant schism within the local movement. Let me reread that. So anarchists and socialists had been uneasy comrades under the umbrella of the international during the 1870s, but the defection of one particularly locally influential figure named Andrea Costa from the School of Libertarian Socialism in 1879 caused a significant skizom within the local movement. And the movement also suffered other internal divisions, particularly with the enduring conflict between anti-organizationalists and anarchist

syndiclists on the role of collectivist association in achieving anarchist aims. Quote, until the end of the 19th century, the former trend appears to have been in the ascendancy, with the growth of the labor movement, and our Quasiniclus expanded the influence. Other disputes reflected the power of pristineities. Ugo Paruni, a key figure in staunch anti-organizationalist, was notorious for his uncompromising style, and was a persistent obstacle to greater cooperation among anarchists.

Not until after his death in 1906, was an national program of action agreed, which provided a solid basis for collaboration within the Egyptian movement. Now, I didn't find any writings by Hugo Prinium himself to speak his piece, but it sounds like he might have been a everlasting, all-ass himself.

If, you know, after the moment he died, they were able to finally come together and come to agree one to something. That means bro is like a significant obstacle to the organization of the offense. But, you know, he fought with his principles and he died by them. So, you know, some respect there.

So until the end of 19th century, the anti-organizationalists seem to have had the upper hand, but with the growth of the labour movement, anarchist syndicologists gained a lot more influence. T-t-t leftist disunity strikes again. The real downside of this history is that the anarchist movement was still quite European and quite male and the rise in nationalist movements without exactly helping matters. However, while the majority of anarchist women, there was a women's section established

in Cairo during the 1870s, so there was some female participation happening as well. It's a real, real Barbie moment there, real win for feminism. The ethnic diversity of the anarchists we've wanted Egypt did expand over time though. Although Italians remained the dominant group until World War I, they were when attracted Greeks, Jews, Germans and various Eastern European nationalities. Arabophone, Egyptians also began to play a lot more significant role as seen in the involvement in industrial actions, education activities and anarchist meetings during the early 1900s. And the occupational backgrounds of these anarchists were just as diverse as the ethnicities. Scaled artisans including Carpenters, Masons, Tealers and Painters were among the majority.

Some came from the Patipus Roazis like Croces and Tavanonas while others were involved in trade or worked for merchant houses. And the movement also included professionals like doctors, lawyers and journalists. By the late 19th century, the anarchist community started to shift its focus toward the new working class, such as cigarette workers, printers, and employees of large utilities like

tramway companies. However, despite the diversity and despite all the calls for internationalism, local national associations still held a lot of power because they provided their communities with welfare services and social events and all that. It's kind of like how immigrants in new countries, even today, will typically like group together in enclaves and communities to share their culture and to share their support economically otherwise. When in a situation where if we're in a wrong view is perceived as foreign and you're seeking some edge of security and say if you know also cultural preservation, that is a thing

that immigrants tend to do. And these workers were immigrants to Egypt and so they kind of did the same thing. Unfortunately, many of these national associations were controlled by bourgeois interests. Yeah. In the Greek community, for example, the powers of the bourgeois oligarchy and funding and controlling community institutions really worked to keep workers in line

with what the authorities wanted. Because if you stepped out a line from what this oligarchy wanted, you know, you kind of like lose access to those essential community institutions. And if you try, if you still have like a family to take care of, a family that you might have brought to Egypt or started in Egypt or really just struggling against me, or you know, you know, you're a fish out of water, and you don't really know any other languages. You just know your own people to be isolated like that is really a has a situation to be

in. And so that's how they kept people in line. But as in terms of the European nationalists, there's also some rise in Egyptian nationalism that also had some sui. Originally, Egyptian nationalists called science of militant labor as part of a European disease and alien to the Egyptian context. Which by the way, I've noticed a lot of right wing organizations and movements tend to apply that pseudo anti-imperial leap order things.

So you would see it with, for example, some right-wing African nationalist groups would describe the presence of homosexuality in the country as a consequence of European imperialism, European colonialism, completely foreign to any kind of African context of history, whatever, which is entirely false, but they do use that sort of false anti-imperialism to build up their power base and build up their reactionary base. So it's a part that you can observe a lot of these right-wing movements, especially globally, global South right-wing movements. right-wing movement, especially global South right-wing movement.

Interestingly though, the Egyptian nationalists who were called in militant labor European disease, their opinions turned around kind of quick when they saw how potent it was of exercise and power. In 1909, the Wattani Party openly backs the formation of the manual trades workers union, which was a diverse party of Egyptian urban workers, because they recognised the party, finally recognised what the need to constitute a broader national community and the political potential of the

workers in the struggle against British occupation. Now before the different nationalists came around on this, the Anacos and Iglesias had already begun trying to attract more Egyptian workers into their internationalist anarchist struggle. They knew how they knew that to make a real impact, they had to connect with native Egyptian workers. But as a thing, you know, the international union structure wasn't always practical for them. Many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Egyptians and many occupations in Egypt were pretty much exclusive to Europeans. So, forming those unions was easier said than done. But I didn't stop the anarchists from trying. You know, they saw the importance of motel-labourization and militancy among the

Egyptian working class. And so, when the car drivers in Alexandria went on strike in 1903, the anarchists were there to gaster them up. The anarchists were of course trying to emphasize what the workers had in common, the lack of boundaries that Labour has, that doesn't care for things like nationality or religion or race, that all workers had the same needs, the same struggles, and the same aspirations for their well-being. Of course, the nationalists had their well-being. Of course, the Nationalists had their own political vision, so while anarchists emphasised international solidarity and shared interests, Nationalists were resorted to nativist appeals and organisational tactics

to splint to labour movement and break up with internationalist orientation. Together with some credit, though, the Italian Party did recognise the importance of allying with foreign workers and urged Egyptian workers during the tram strike of 1911 to unite and strengthen yourselves and increase your numbers through combination and through unity with the European workers, your comrades. Let me get to 1919 and the quote-unquote 1919 revolution. It's kind of a significant movement in Egyptian history and anarchists were there, so let's talk about it. In 1919, the British government imposed new

taxes and restrictions on civil liberties, which further fueled the discontent and united Egyptians from various social, economic, and political backgrounds. The spark that ignited the revolution was a deportation of Egyptian nationalists leaders, Sad, Sadlul, and other political figures by the pressure authorities for opposing their policies. A response, massive protests erupted across the country, which strikes, demonstrations, and civil disobedience

become widespread. Egyptians from all walks of life, including workers, students, intellectuals, and peasants, took part in the movement. They were influenced and part by the strategies and tactics of the syndicalist presence in the region and abroad at the time. The revolution gained momentum and to demand

the protesters became more explicit, calling for full independence, a constitution, and an end to British rule. The British authorities initially tried to suppress the protests with force, which of course led to violent clashes and bloodshed. However, the resiliency of the Egyptian people ultimately forced the British government to recognize the scale of the uprising and the strength of the Nationalist Movement. In 1922, the United Kingdom unilaterally declared Egypt's independence, so the British continued to exit considerable influence over Egyptian affairs. One could argue that the specter of anarchism would re-att head again in Egypt's history,

that the specter of anarchism would rare Ted again in Egypt's history. Particularly during the Arab Spring in 2011, when anarchic tactics could be found across the Middle East and North Africa. In the next part, I'll be talking more about what anarchists would do in Egypt in the late 19th and 20th centuries. But for now, I hope that today's anarchist in Egypt and elsewhere can keep the flame of freedom better. We'll power to all the people.

Peace. Oh, one. This has been Andrew. You can follow me on itchure.com. Sash Andrewism and support the picture on a patron of calm, Sash St. Drew. See you next time. its leader, Nasson Joaquin Garcia. They believe that he was Jesus Christ on earth. It wasn't even so much that he liked sex. He wanted something to pray. It's the largest cult in the world that no one has ever heard of.

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IHR Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Kedapaniya. I'm Andrew of the YouTube channel, Andruism. And I'm here with Mia, who didn't miss the fewest. Hey, I'm learning. Today I just wanted to shed lights on some of the interesting history of the anarchist movement in Egypt. This is part two. Fleece Park really just went into the historical context and progression. And how the anarchist community

moved in Egypt, you know, fueled by this growing Mediterranean network of migration, labor mobility, and communication. Of course, it started with the Italian community, knowing for their anarchism at that time, but soon gained the support of other groups sharing a radical vision of social emancipation. I learned all this from the book anarchism and syndiculism in the colonial and post-colonial world, particularly the section written by Anthony Gorman on Egyptian history. In the years leading up to the world war I, anarchist syndiculism represented by the international union played a leading role in organizing and developing a militant labor movement. leaden up to the World War I, and a question to Glyzm represented by the International Union,

played a leading role in organizing and developing a militant labour movement. After getting for international solidarity among workers, they adapted well to Egypt's diverse society, embracing ethnic and religious pluralism and internationalism while opposing capitalism. Anarchists, along with socialists and liberals, contribute to the advancement of secular thought and Egyptian intellectual life, the significant impact on their society. However, the anarchists move on faced challenges due to the state's coercion through surveillance, prosecution and deportation.

The authorities portray them as disillute political inventors, pushing an alien ideology. Despite their achievements in formating an anti-capital discourse and African-American for socially-man-spatial, other forces, like the Egyptian Communist Party and the Egyptian National Movement, would take on some of their ideas with a louder and more prominent voice. Today, I just want to give more details on the movement and what exactly they were doing in their Heide. Clearly, the anarchist movement in Egypt was not confined to the local. It was all about connected anarchists from different countries, making international

friendships and fighting for their shared ideals. The anarchists in Egypt got involved with the conference in Verveils and conferences in London and Italy and hung out with anarchists from Istanbul, Greece, Tunisia, and more. Egypt became the spot for anarchists in the Eastern Mediterranean. They'd make connections all the way to the United States and South America. It's kind of interestingly playing a similar role to like early 1900s Japan in terms of the anarchist movement where yeah, you get these sort of like regional hubs that develop and people sort of like move through and around them.

I think it's really interesting. Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. And each of us being a hub, you know, a lot of big name anarchists who are visiting, you know, big name. Talking to people like Amir Kir Claire, Sepriani, Elise Rekluse, Erikoma Othesta, Luigi Caliani, and Pietro Gori. And of course, with these agitators in the mix, the authorities called it a new verse. But the real life-floor movement not be as influential figures.

There were the publications that this community was producing and reading and distributing. The anarchists in Egypt didn't just read from newsletters all around the world, though that was a part of it. But they also contributed their own articles, but always happening in Egypt. They were connected, informed and motivated by the international community they had built. There are a bunch of publications dedicated to workers' issues, offering insights, debates, and discussions on common difficulties, on matters of labour organisation and strategy. Facilitability is about an increasingly developed international transport system, particularly steam ship services. The international anarchist press, so it has a vital channel for dissemination

and diffusion of the movement's ideas. It was the anarchist library before the anarchist library. In terms of how they went about organizing and appropriating Egypt, the anarchists they recognized the unique challenges of the local situation that they have to deal with. For the European anarchists promoting the message of emancipation and combating the exploitation, ignorance and injustice caused by capitalism, the state and religious authority would be no easy task in a region where for one, they're already being seen as part of the onical and attempts of political domination by Western powers, and also in a region with

very deep historical religious divisions, you know, such as the crusades and the British and French colonization. It's really one of the major projects, I suppose, the European anarchists needed to communicate to the local population, was that their Aya did not lay with Europeans as a whole. It lay primarily with the European ruling class. And so when it came to critiquing societal issues, I has strongly attacked the evils of capitalism. And of course, that had the best reception among the Egyptian workers. Of course, this isn't to say that the European workers

in Egypt were completely in common with the Egyptian workers. Despite the fact that the eye of the Egyptian workers should already lie primarily with the European rule in class that was responsible for the imperialization of their country and exploitation of their people. The presence of the European workers did also contribute to the exploitation because those European workers were paid so much

better than native one workers were able to experience it in privileges that native one workers did not have access to. Interestingly, although anarchists typically advocate for emancipation from all religious authorities, Islam wasn't specifically targeted in the literature, and there was probably a pragmatic consideration for whether anti-religious rhetoric would fly, considering they could just be deported because of course that was a crime. They still took on a hostile attitude towards Egypt and state though, contaminants, co-waves of actions, surveillance, culture and abuse of power, but they didn't confront it head on. The programme of action was far more focused on the goal of social transformation through the use of propaganda, education, and workers'

associations. Because of the mixed conditions in Europe and in Egypt, the idea of people of different races, religions, nationalities, United Insolidarity had some real potency to it. So the international submission was a very central component in their messaging at public conferences and at labor meetings. But it really was more so about the speaking, the propaganda of the word, rather than the propaganda of the deed. In fact, interestingly for that time, the anarchists in the Egypt didn't really engage in much propaganda of the deed at all.

Propaganda of the deed being political violence and assassination attempts. For those of you know, a bit about the anarchists of that time, propaganda of the deed was what they were known for. They had some big name assassinations in the Bix. For example, France, Foude, and Anna believe was assassinated by an anarchist. Wait, no, hold on. French-Ferdinand is the guy who was killed by Giverio Prince that guy who started World War One. Right. I've seen some sources called him a nationalist.

Some sources called him an anarchist. I don't think he was an anarchist. Yeah. He was exposed to socialist anarchist and communist writings when he was younger through school and through his roommate, Danielo Ilich. But he was more so associated with nationalists, particularly when he got around to assassinate in France

for the land. Nazis and fascists did call him an anarchist, an socialist. But it seems as though he was inspired by nationalist anarchists, he was most on the nationalist side of the equation. Yeah, I mean, they did kill a few Habsburgs, which always a good thing to have less habits in the world.

You can make a chart over time and what access is good and the other access is Habsburgs. You can see that they're inversely correlated. Yeah, Habsburgs is something else. But yeah, the anarchists in Egypt not too much into the political violence and assassinations. They were focused really on promoting the ideas through spoken and written communication, you know, like public meetings, demonstrations, and the press. And the press was really the crucial axis of the efforts and disseminating the ideas and sustaining the identity. They are local public, they are local publications like that tribunal, libera, leopold Rao, Lux and others which served as spread anarchist thought and discussed ideas and issues of social emancipation.

The weekly paper Leopold Rao mostly promoted anarchist syndiculism and then the people, Il Domini came up and decided to adopt a more tridently the Biterion tone. And then you have a rise again or Resortigate, which is another people, another weekly, that promoted a very strong anti-clarical line. And then there was the people who Ergatis, which was the Wilco, and that was an organ for the emancipation of women and the Wilco, and it provided primarily for Greek language readership. I say a lot of these speakers were tailored towards specific languages, so that Greek had Italian specific languages so that Greek had Italian and also French, like Leunion and Leideira. But despite its polygoth character, the anarchist person Egypt doesn't seem to have included in Arabic language in these people, which is kind of weird when you're surrounded by Arabic-speaking people. However, anarchism had regularly featured in the mainstream Arabic news people since the

1890s. Usually, however, in reports and the activities of the movement abroad, not locally in Egypt. At the same time, there were also journals like Al Mukhtar Taif and Al Hilal, which carried articles discussing the origins and development of anarchist thought and practice. It seems as though in 1897 there was also a figure who engaged with socialized ideas but that particular publication seems to have been closed down quite quickly by the authorities, particularly for featuring the work of Salama Musa and Shibli Shumayu, who were two Egyptian writers who were clearly influenced by Anikas ideas.

Something just occurred to me is that what it could be influenced in this is that the Italians and the Greeks and the French and all these different people who are right and about these anarchist ideas in Egypt, it's possible they had a bit more leeway when it came to the local authorities that locals themselves would not have. Their foreign status may have provided them with slight immunity in comparison and this is just me, Spitballin, but it's possible that our mobile and writers and speakers would be taken on significantly more risk if they were to agitate in the same ways that these migrant workers were advocated. And then there's also the component, that speculation, but there is the proven component of financial difficulties

and limited literacy rates among the Egyptian population that made it difficult to distribute Arabic language material, which is anarchism because a lot of the weakers in Egypt who spoke Arabic were not literate. What did help though because you know the anarchists were about that life, they would go to cafes and read the new supers out loud to reach their target audience. The first podcasters. Exactly, exactly. The first podcast that's for you. That's the anarchist movement in Egypt is really coming written in potent political events, celebrates new principles through posters,

leaflets and flyers, celebrate in the anniversary of events like the Paris Commune and Medi to really spread that message of international solidarity among the workers. I guess in Egypt we're also very fond of sharing solidarity to their international figures. Like Francesco Ferrer, who is a very influential Spanish anarchist thinker, who did a lot of work in the field of anarchist education.

He created Ferrer schools, which influenced figures like Emma Goldman to create their own modern schools in the US and elsewhere And he was arrested and then executed Which led to a lot of protest both locally and internationally Making him something of a martyr for the anarchist scholars And so the outrage expressed at the execution of her air was not simply just a protest against the attorney, but also a recognition of his status as an advocate for secular education, which is an important vehicle for socially-mancipation.

Before Francesco Ferrer was executed, though, anarchists in Egypt were already working on educational programs. In fact, they launched their most ambitious project, the free popular university, or university popular liberal, or UPL, in Alexandria in 1901. UPL aimed to provide free evening education to the popular classes and received great support across Alexandrarian society. Courses included the works of Tolstoy and Bacunin, the arts, and pragmatic topics like work and negotiation strategies.

However, the UPL's radical nature also brought criticism with the Italian authorities initiating legal proceedings against a UPR electoral for some remarks he made about the assassination of the Italian king Umberto Reifist. I, of course, leave you to speculate what those comments and remarks may have been. But despite some initial public support, its critics accused the UPR of being based on depraved principles. Now, I mentioned this school before in the episode on Islam and anarchism.

And like I said in that episode, Arbics because when quickly marginalized from the education and the UPL gradually became more aimed toward and controlled by upper class interests. In fact, within a year, reliably bourgeois elements had arrested control of the UPL from its anarchist founders, and had arastic control of the UPL from its anarchist founders, and proceeded to transform it into a vocational college that, among other things, taught shorthand, accountancy, and languages. So despite its very brief existence as a revolutionary project, the UPL marked an important moment for anarchism in Egypt and inspired other movements seek an educational reform.

The UPL's impact and vision influenced Egyptian nationalists who established the Higher Schools Club in 1905, which also emphasized educational means for political purposes. Anarchism in Egypt had a significant impact on the development of the labor movement. As a new working class emerged towards the end of the 19th century, Anarchist cynicism emerged

as a powerful force advocating for formal collective organization as the instrument of social revolution. Of course, Egypt's labor movement wasn't entirely new, as guilt had been part of the traditional Ottoman order, regulating trade and providing mutual aid, but the modernization efforts of Muhammad Ali, no relation, and Egypt's integration to the international capitalist system changed our landscape, affecting the role of guilds and sheep in the working class. Foreign workers,

like I mentioned before, came into Egypt alongside native Egyptian label, but despite the differences between them, evidence does show a strong cooperation and collaboration between the groups. The native Egyptian working class was affected by a variety of factors, but there was a model of collaboration, there was emotion between the European and Egyptian workers. The cigarette rollers union, for example, was initially a Greek body in Cairo, but later became more inclusive as their successful strike in 1899 to 1900 marked a milestone in Egyptian industrial militancy. However, their subsequent strikes fixed. However, subsequent strikes faced brutal confrontations with the police, the identifigions

among the workers. By the end of the first decade of the century, the anarchist-synchist international union had emerged as a significant force based on universalist principles and international solidarity. The optimism for the future of a socialist centre in Cairo was a reflection of the broader movement within the working class led by anarchists and cynicists. Anarchism first appeared in Egypt among Italian political refugees and workers during the 1860s.

Notured by a development international network of labour, transport and communications, expanded beyond Italian circles, attract members from across Egypt's diverse communities. They had to roginess through the discourse of radical social emancipation and propaganda and public action, declaring the universality of humankind and the crying evils of capitalism, state power and digital dogma. The anarchist movement would come into force in Egypt's history. In the years after 1900 anarchist syndicalism played a central role in development at the leaving movement. Attickly it's in the rights of workers in struggle against capital and for

molting internationalists acted as a. Get a while until rejected, while they rejected nationalism as an organized principle, anarchist did at times make common cause the nationalists against imperialism, and arguably had a refuberating influence on the strategies and tactics of the nationalist movement. That's all I have for today. On this a half a day on this brief moment in Egyptian Atticus history, but I hope it illuminated a very interesting chapter and context and sphere. Yeah, and I think there's another kind of important broader lesson from this that is I think mostly forgotten, which is that you know from from this period of I don't know roughly the late 1800s through about 1917

like in most parts of the world except for basically like Western Europe or not even Western Europe. Like apart from basically like the Germany's, if you're talking about socialism, there's like anywhere in the world, there's a very, very good chance that thing you're actually talking about as anarchism. And you know, there's been a sort of systemic attempt by both liberal and sort of later communist historians to sort of like wipe the historical record clean and make it look like everything was always sort of like

the sort of on rush of barksism. But that just wasn't true. And they were very powerful. anarchists movements on every continent. And they did a lot, they did a lot of really interesting things. And yeah, And they did a lot, they did a lot of really interesting things and yeah. Yeah, that really is to be respected and recognized and it hasn't so far. So flee this and if folks check out the book, they can get some more insights on some of the other actions that were taken place in that time. Again, the book is anarchism and syndicalism in the colonial and post-Colunial world. Ereli illuminates a lot of that lost history. Thanks for joining me and me on this episode of It Could Happen Here.

Again, you can follow me and do on the YouTube channel Andruism and support on patreon.com slash center. Take care, y'all. Tequeo. Nasson Joaquin Garcia. They believe that he was Jesus Christ on Earth. It wasn't even so much that he liked sex. He wanted something to pray. It's the largest cult in the world that no one has ever heard of. For three generations, the Luz del Mundo had an incredible control on his community that began in Mexico and then grew across the United States

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Yeah, that's the podcast that you're listening to. It's also a thing that is happening. The thing that is happening is it is a kind of rough time to be a trans person in the US and also in most other countries. And, you know, we do, we do a lot of episodes on this show about how it's rough and why it's rough and the specific things that are happening. But also, sometimes we do, we do the other part of the podcast, which is to put it back together part of the podcast, or in this one, I, then this is more of a,

bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old episode. And in order to talk about doing that, we're talking to Samantha Medina, who's an organizer for Donut, working she knighted and also the Coalition of Independent Unions and Cheneyid, who is an organizer for the CIO and also the coalition of independent unions and chanade who is an organizer for the C.I.U. and also the I.W.W. and yeah both YouTube welcome to the show. Hey thanks for having us. Good to be on.

Great to talk to both of you. And so the specific thing that yeah I wanted to talk about today is the trends day of solidarity that is being organized in Portland right now. And yeah, I wanted to, I guess we should start with what is this event who is doing it? And then we can get into why it is being done? Sure thing. So the Trans Day of Solidarity is an event being put on right now by the Coalition of Independent Unions. And it's an event that's basically about both celebrating trans people in the labor movement and the workers movement as a whole, highlighting the importance of workplace and union

organizing for trans communities, as a way for us both to survive, but also to struggle towards our own liberation. And finally, it's a way of us clarifying how we can start using workplace struggle as a means of turning the tide against the current genocide we face. Now, that never smells of it. I think the only thing that I'd like to add is a lot of what this event is around is bringing awareness to the trans community and specifically our experience within the labor movement and on the job. And it is a way, as Shaneid mentioned,

to kind of like highlight exactly what unions do and can do for trans people. Well, at the same time, also giving us a moment to remind unions that they should be doing more. Even if what they're already doing is great, they could always do more. And especially in a time right now where trans people are facing the discriminations, particularly to us across this country right now, we're trans people are facing the discriminations, particularly to us across this country right now. And as you mentioned, the world, but focusing on the United States, it's really important that the avenues that are there to protect us are aware of how to protect us. So I think this is our opportunity to kind of remind unions to step it up a little bit. Yeah, and I mean, I think I think another thing our opportunity to kind of remind unions to step it up a little bit.

Yeah, and I mean, I think I think another thing that's kind of important about this in particular is, yeah, you know, about a bunch of YouTube or intimately aware of this, but I don't know if over represented the right term, but like trans people, like literally right now in particular are effectively the Vanguard of new union organizing. They are, you know, enormously like, quote,

unquote, I guess I can overrepresented or whatever that's the word you want to use in, in, you know, like among you in the organization, just a lot of actually, and then this I think is a, you know, another thing I'm excited about for this is that like, you all are kind of like at the forefront, I guess, of like, what the need sort of organizing stuff is and how it's sort of, you know, how it's been working. It's like that.

The fact that this is like the one place where there's actually a lot of us and that, you know, is a place where there's enough of us that it actually matters is important and that, you know, that that works in a lot of directions at the same time. Yeah, I mean, I think it's good to acknowledge that there are a lot of trans people that are organizing their workplaces. There's a lot of trans people taking part in their unions. And a lot of that I think comes out of necessity.

If we're not there to discuss our needs with these unions, we're to create our own unions at a necessity where like maybe our Cisco workers don't understand the struggle that we face on the shop floor. So by reminding them we're able to make it better, you know, like all that's great and true and everything. But I think it's also really good to acknowledge that like LGBTQ people in general, whether they just be trans or otherwise, have been organizing and organizing their workplaces for decades now.

So I think a lot of this, like yeah, we're seeing a lot more trans people involved, but we're also seeing a lot more recognition and invisibility of trans people than ever before. Right, and part of the reason we're so involved is because it's a matter of basic survival, right? Right. Well, and in part of the reason we're so involved is because it's a matter of basic survival, right? The average trans-masculine and non-binary person make about 70% of the median US wages, whereas trans-femin people make 60% and this is below

like compared to cis people, you know, that's that's wild, right? The level of homelessness of discrimination, of job loss, of hours being reduced, punishment of sexual harassment on the job is just, you know, it's, it's unconscionable. And it always has been, even in the good days, it was garbage and miserable and honestly took a lot of us out. Yeah, and I mean, you know, like part of the thing with that run is like that. All of that has knock on effects, right? You know, if you can't get a job and the jobs you can get pay less, a lot of this forces people, you know, like the rate of homelessness is unbelievably hot people get evicted constantly. And this, you know, this, this, this,

all this ties together with sort of like trans housing struggles because that's a huge thing. And yeah, the consequences is just like, yeah, a lot more of us end up dead. And the way that we don't end up dead is by fighting. And one of the places that we've gotten good at is fighting in the workplace. Absolutely. And I'm talking from my own experiences as an organizer. And and as an IWW member for God 17 years now. Like, wow, yeah,

it's like I think about all the major campaigns that I've seen and all of them, all of them have had trans people as core organizers for each and every shop. From the canvassassers strikes to burgerville to a number of like fast food shops and service sector shops and retail shops like It Every single time there are folks that are our trans that are playing key roles Which is given that we're what? Probably between two and four percent of the population at least, at least according to current estimates probably going to higher. But that shouldn't be possible.

That makes no sense except for the fact that well-survivability by his mother-fuckers, it's this or we're dead. Yeah. Maybe that's a very well-tanked one. It's this or we're dead. Yeah, maybe the bear. I'm not going to shoot that. No, no, no, it's not. I mean, that is the blatant truth, right? And I mean, like, even if we're not talking about life and death, I mean, it's the difference of whether we have access to a bathroom to use.

You know, yeah, yeah. And you know, like, yeah, so of course, this is also about life and death. And but like, you know, I think another thing that trains people face a lot is like access to healthcare. We're really the lack thereof access to healthcare. And especially healthcare that will actually get us the medication that we need to be on, the surgeries that we need. Because again, these are issues that help with dysphoria. And we all know the statistics on how dysphoria affects people of all ages. And that is, again, a matter of life and death.

So, like, I don't think it's wrong to not sugarcoat that safe. Yeah. Right. And there's another side to it too, is that like this is also a point of community. This is a point of actually like folks from, you know, it's meeting up with other trans folks, but it's also like working together with other like with cis co-workers and friends, right? This is a point of belonging and togetherness and of being able to really be there for your neighbors and your friends and your co-workers in ways that like, and to be a part of community,

which is something that is often stripped of us, right? Yes, it's about survival, and it's about what we need to do in order to keep breathing. But it's also about what we need to do to live, you know, to go beyond survival, to have joy, and to have enough money to make it through, and, you know, maybe people actually have something for ourselves, maybe people did not have the constant anxiety, but instead spend more time being happy about who we are. It's easy to overlook that, but I don't. Again, biased sample source, but almost all my fondest memories are from being side-by-side with my fellow workers, right? Absolutely, and I think also, you know, like, time's gone long enough now where, you know,

trans people are starting to be something that people are aware of, something people are talking about, whether that's in the best ways or not, where at least more does we're not a good band. And, you know, I think, like, organizing in general, community in general, whether that's community within the city you live in or within your workplace, it's like a lot of our success at being able to live the lives that we wanna have

or be the people that we wanna be and be respected for that really does come down to our family members, our coworkers, our friends, and ultimately complete strangers who we need to rely on. You know, I hate to use the word ally, but we need our allies more than ever. And it's about time that they step up to and that starts typically speaking in your community

and in your workplace. So I think it's also really good to address the fact that like, you know, when we're talking about trans issues and organizing around them and like organizing workplace in your community and all that, like it's also important to acknowledge how intersectional the trans experience is. And that's something I really wanted to stress.

We got talking about specifically about unions and things like that because also unions are an incredibly intersectional piece of politics and life that we need to appreciate. Because when we talked about these statistics affecting trans people, they affect disabled trans people and black and brown trans people at much, much more devastating than they affect white trans people. And I think that unions being something, not just unions, I mean, every aspect of organizing and community building really needs to pay attention to this. But I think this is something that is so ingrained in unions

that unions have been fighting for this sort of protections that are very intersectional. Like whether they're protecting women in the workplace, whether they're protecting black and brown people, whether they're protecting disabled people, or whether they're protecting women in the workplace, whether they're protecting black and brown people, whether they're protecting disabled people, or whether they're protecting trans people, that is a large part of why unions were established. We talk about wages of working hours a lot,

and that is all fine and dandy, and it's wonderful, and that's something that is a base core value of unions, but I don't think it's celebrated enough how much work unions did in equality in this country. And I think this is just a continuation of that tradition. And trans people just happen to be one of the largest topics right now, and we tend to have on the largest targets on our back. More than

we've ever had before. And so yeah, I think that's why we discussed unions in relation to this because for, you know, that working class folk, that's where a lot of our organizing begins. Yeah, and I think it's actually honest, it's had an interesting impact on the kind of union organizing that's happening because, you know, like one of the sort of consequences of transphobic discrimination in workplaces is that you get a lot of trans people in what is...

Okay, I refuse to call it service sector. I'm gonna... There's gonna be a whole episode that's me yelling about the service sector that's coming to a recording thing near you Specifically like jobs jobs fast food jobs that are very low wage Like high turnover Things and particularly fast food has been very interesting because that's a that's a sector that Like a lot of trade unions just completely ignore like they just gave up on and you know like they've been starting to organize like Starbucks in the past few years right but like

You know like if you want to look at the people who've actually been trying to organize fast food workers It turns out it's a bunch of trans people because I guess you can see who works because you actually does this stuff, right? Turns out turns out. Yeah There's a lot to be said about that, like with larger unions and larger unions, especially within the trades, have done a lot of great work, you know, and that's lovely, and I appreciate them for that. But on the other hand, they really did turn their back on the service sector industry for the silliest reason possible, which is that high turnover is just too difficult. And we want to talk about people, yeah, it's just too difficult.

You know, who wants to organize something difficult, right? Like, that might cost too much money or not make them enough money. And which I find highly hypocritical of unions in general. I mean, like not of all unions, but like if that is a stance that unions will take to not organize the service industry, being a union seems to be exactly why you would target those industries, right? Because those are where workers need it most. And if we want to talk about high turnover rates, being the reason, who do we think is affected the most by high turnover rates, you know? Like it is hard to find a job as a trans person, let alone

keep a job. For any length of time, there's oftentimes no upward mobility for trans people in that job. And so you face a variety of life issues when you're not making enough money, which inevitably leads to you losing your job and adding to the high turnover rates he's come to. This is exactly why, and we can get into what we've been up to and what we're doing later, but that's exactly why the CIO and the IWW and other organizations like us do what we do is because we believe in helping the workers and the workers who are underrepresented and not taken care of by the larger units. Because we are those e-workers, right? I mean, that is the thing.

We're able to do this and put, you know, I mean, we'll put the fucking hours in because that's us. We're doing this because it's the only way out, right? So like, when we schedule something like, or like create an event like the Trans Day of Solidarity, we're doing this because both on the backbone of years of experience, but like, especially like collectively, but also bringing in new organizers because we knew how we can think back to how we were brought in, right? We can think back to our friends,

our allies, and our especially our trans fellow workers who were the ones who mentored us well before the tipping point in a lot of cases, right? Because this is why we're here. And like thinking about who this affects, right? I mean like it affects trans people deeply. It can cut off our access to the healthcare that many but not all us, very much need to keep going. And the threats above us, you know, only increase as the, like, you know, the oppressions you face are increasing, right? If you're a trans-precious color, if you're disabled, like you were saying, right? Like, shit, gets worse. It gets harder. The sword over your head dangles a little closer. So we work to figure a way to get out from under it. It's also like why the Trans-Div solidarity, like when we talk about this, it's an event that is what it is because it's designed to not simply be us just speaking into the wind,

but it's meant to be a practical thing, right? The whole event itself is like a rally with, you know, trans speakers from, you know, a number of different shops and unions in town. But it's also then just quickly becomes just a flying picket, right? And this is a tradition that I think we do miss a little bit in this country. The flying pickets and old ones, and it's a fucking golden. It's where you get a big ol' mob of people, and you just start going to places all over your town and throw in fucking pickets. It's everything you love about a breakaway march, and also a picket at the same time. It has direct economic leverage to it.

You can do, you know, people, it's, it took a minute. Yeah. But, and, you know, this is also coming from someone who was organized in Premier League in Portland. So there's a certain bias here. Your locale may vary. But if you organize enough pickets in your city, people might cross them at first. They get a lot less likely to, the more you do them over the years. So the more pickets you throw, the less likely people are to cross them and if they are not likely to cross them, that increases their impact. So we're going to be giving our speeches, sure, and we are going to speak to our experiences, that's critical. And then we're also going to ruin some people's day or make their day if you have the workers.

Yeah, we're in some bosses' day. Exactly. you had a workers. Yeah, we're in some bosses day. Exactly. Just always the best kind of day. One session per the reason. Listen, should bosses have good days? I'm gonna go on a limb and say, no, never, ever, ever. You want to have the good days to reach out but work. Yeah, damn straight. At the bare minimum, you get at least one less good day than us. And you know what, you know what, if the bosses don't like having these bad days, then they can just go find another job. Yeah. It's not that thing. Deal, right? They can actually contribute to their communities. I think it actually contribute to their communities.

You know, do some real work for a change, which in this case is sometimes just working a fucking tail. Cause that sucks. Okay, speaking of things that suck, we need to take an ad break. This is the best ad pivot I've been able to think of in the last like six minutes. So we're taking it right now. It's never going to get this good again.

And we're back. So one of the things that I also wanted to talk about is about, I guess just talking a bit about what the coalition of Independent Unions is and how it sort of formed and, yeah, I don't know, the sort of potentials they are in because it's a really interesting organization. Coalition? Yeah, absolutely. So, the CIO, it's got a long history if we really dig deep into it.

I mean, effectively, this idea started after organizing within Portland for the last, gosh, I think people have been organizing here forever. But let's say how long ago did burgerville workers union star Shining? Let's see, there's that's a question. If you wanna talk about the official date we went public, sure, 2016. If you want to talk about the antecedents, you'll find it in the industrial research organizing

group, precarious workplace, no, is low wage worker subcommittee, the poor and general membership branch of the IWW circa August of 2013. Incredible. That's one of the best. It's just, oh you're welcome. Yeah. Oh, honey, honey, I'm a walk. Do you know how many fucking acronyms do you have? Oh my God. Listen, the number of things I had to take the GMB when I was BST, despite not actually being the tea part of BST. The only tea part I'm not part of. Oh, I could tell you about the GOB and the GEB until the cows come home. But the point is, their antecedents, the CIO, is a relatively new organization with deep roots

in Portland. It kind of came out of the flurry of independent unions that kind of, in fast food, service, and retail that flourished in the wake of the burgerville workers union. Burgerville workers union itself goes public and God that was April of 2016 because of course it's been that fucking long. It was in the works while before that. God, how all those meetings. The earliest antecedents are arguably the Portland General

Membership Branch of the IWWs Industrial Organizing Research Group, the precarious worker subgroup, or maybe it was the low wage worker subgroup, circa August of 13. But that's, and to see, this kind of goes public. This itself is built on the Jimmy John's workers union, especially if we're on the Twin Cities and earlier in the 2000s. And then, of course, before that that the Starbucks workers union that had multiple

different campaign flourishings I think the earliest in the late 90s early thoughts in New York City on which honestly you'll see some articles mention this on which the foundations of the modern Starbucks workers united now rests so what we've seen now in the wake of all of this shit, right, is you have an incredibly militant working class coming forward. And they start popping off, they're not waiting for information from any work, to just start fucking organizing their workplace, sometimes filing for union elections, sometimes not. The ones that have been filing for contracts, there are, I have complicated feelings,

but there are real gains you can make from contracts, right? That it is a lot easier to get certain victories than you can in others. Now, there's also limitations, right? But the CIO comes from a number of different unions coming together, you know, don't work as united a few others, to basically like actually preserve, you know,

debokshion, their workplace, to pool resources around, you know, trainings around contract bargaining and elections, as well as to rely on each other for direct action assistance and things like that. And the IWWs also got a thread in all of this, but yeah, it's essentially a series of like, you know, we're not trying to own everything, right? The CIO exists as a platform for all the different types of independent union activity that are occurring, right? And to create a based on which we can actually start talking

to each other more to cooperate and interact with each other, right? There is more of a contract focus in the CIO. So you know, I'm a mob with experience in dual carding, you know, you have your contract union on the one hand and you're fighting union on the other. And this allows folks to sort of approach union organizing, labor organizing from any level of experience and any number of backgrounds, right?

I think that's the real strength of the CIO is not to instead to constrain the upswell of worker militancy, but instead to give it a place to help put down some roots while also allowing even more militant struggle to intertwine within those, you know, growths. So I think that's a really great explanation of the CIO and how the CIO formed and the purpose that the CIO provides to workers. All, I mean, so far the CIO is growing rapidly. We've been talking with a lot of workers

and primarily in Oregon and in Portland, but even workers outside of that purview. And I have a lot of hope that the CIO is going to be able to help unionization in a way that other unions are not willing to at the moment or having difficulty breaking into. And so far, so good. I mean, I think we have, gosh, I think there's like, at least, trying to do the math right now in my head, I do lose count sometimes, but I think we got about

six different shops involved in the CIOI.U. currently. Six including my own. Exactly. Six recovery shops including my own. No, no, that's fine. Oh no. Yeah, yeah. Oh honey, there's so much more to come. There's so much more to come.

Oh, they're gonna learn why we take this city but the C.I.U. They're all right. Oh, maybe know that, all right? Crows, baby, crows. But it's going really well. And we have a lot more campaigns that are going to go public in the future. But one thing that we really notice

while organizing all of these campaigns and whether we are selves organized them or whether we had a hand in assisting them organize themselves throughout the city. One thing that all of us various organizers started to realize is that we represent a large amount of trans folks at all of these jobs. Now some of that can be chalked up to the fact that we live in Portland and we kind of live in the trans mecha.

Of course, you're going to come across a lot of trans workers. But here's the deal that we kind of noticed is the trans mecha. So of course you're going to come across a lot of trans workers. But he is the deal that we kind of notice is that trans workers, regardless of living in Portland, Oregon, or the fact that we have so many trans people living here, for a lot of reasons I won't get into it. We all know, which is why we moved here in the first place. Refugees. Let's be real.

Let's run away. Refugees. But we notice that there's a lot of trans workers working as you reluctantly put it earlier, service industry, jobs, and not zero upward mobility for trans folks. And so that's the thing that we started looking at is the ladder. And as you go up the ladder, you see less and less and less trans folks. So down here at the bottom, working fast food jobs, working sweaty donut jobs, working in the restaurant industry as a whole, I think, is a lot of who we assist,

as well as potentially some grocery store workers and other people like that. We don't have a whole lot of representation in our workplaces that we make up, you know. I mean, we can look at some of the larger industries in town that do provide unionization for workers. And there's many, but I think it's easy to look at like a lot of the auto industry or the warehouse industries and things like that. And of course, they have trans workers, but it's an overwhelming amount working

within the service industry. And so as we started organizing more and more service industry shops, we started realizing that we are representing a lot of trans people. And what's really important to us is that if we're going to be representing trans people in a workplace, then we should give them a platform and a voice to be able to speak about their concerns and their issues that they haven't otherwise had. And that's why the CIO decided to put on this action. You know, and we chose it when we chose it for a very particular reason.

And to be honest, we thought about doing it over Pride weekend, and I think that would have been lovely. But on the other hand, you know, Pride is about a celebration of existence. And there's a lot of visibility during Pride already. So we kind of stepped back. We reflected on that for a little bit. And we decided that Labor Day is not exactly a time of year where you hear about people talking about LGBTQ rights

and trans rights. I mean, of course, there's a little bit of that going on, I'm not sure, I didn't say that there's none, but it seems like a really great opportunity for us to post this event over Labor Day weekend and give trans workers the working class an actual platform and a voice to express their concerns issues and give their thanks at the same time to the unions who represent them and like I said before it could represent them even better so this is our way of reminding them and also at the same time the follow-up picket. Reminding Portland that if you don't take care of your community and specifically in this case, or trans working class community, then we will make ourselves heard and you will listen to us one

way or another. And if we have to take to the streets in order to have our oyster, we are more than happy to do that. Red the promise, black the threat. It's an old slogan, but again, it's when we really need to bring back. And city birds. City birds are very important in all this. But I know nothing is more important than this episode.

Listen, more in Portland, the obligatory crow conversation is just part of the bargain. The Liberty Weekend tends to be very important because this is when a lot of retail and food and entertainment business happens. And frankly, given the whole genocide, we decided we were going to help show the power of organized labor by throwing a bit of a wrench into that, right? So why we chose Labor Day, getting into sort of like what the Trans-Dave Solidarity is. We're going to be having a speaker and rally at 4 p.m. at Pioneer Square in Portland,

Oregon on Saturday, September 2nd. This is a huge, huge weekend for food service, for entertainment, and yeah, for retail. And while we're having trans speakers from a number of different campaigns and you speak from four to you know wrapping up around five We're then going to start moving on a mobile picket line a flying picket all over downtown Portland Because we need to bring joy to a lot of workers and ruin a lot of bosses days This is leverage and we'll use it We'll just cost them as many you them as much money as we possibly can. We'll be hitting a number of different stores.

It looks like we'll be hitting, well, you'll see at the march. But we'll be going all over the city. We have everything covered in terms of needs and amenities. There's going to be chance and leaflets. There'll be medics, aplenty. There'll be all sorts of safety concerns. All will be addressed by our organizers on the ground.

So please come one, come all. We actually should have a marching band. That'll be pretty fun. That I didn't expect to land up. It'll be a union marching band in the last. Nice, nice. We love to see it. It's going to be pretty great. So if you like trans people and making bosses cry, you should come to this. What time if we do this is starting? Again, time. If we do this is starting again 4 p.m. the at Pioneer Square in downtown Portland. And then we'll be doing the March throughout the city from around five o'clock.

And I do recommend to folks wanting to come out to the event. Be ready to chance. Bring your walking shoes because we have a bit of a trek ahead of us making bosses miserable across town and make some signage. Bring picket signs. Bring, you know, in picket signs in support of both trans people, working fast folks, union workers, or just reminding bosses to stopping shitheads, whatever you want to put on your sign, it's lovely. I will give you a hint as to one of the locations that we will be picketing, and I think it's okay for me to mention this, but you know, we'll make sure to pick it the world's worst tourist trap. Also, one of the absolute... That's just a bit of a cool... One of the absolute most difficult union struggles that I've ever been a part of.

Only being one so far particularly, but you know, it really hurts me. So anyways, if you're interested in that, come on down and you can see the world's worst stirs trap on your way. And for people who are not in Portland, I do want to remind people it's probably not enough time to do it this year. But you too, you too can have a trans day of solidarity.

You could also have it on a different day. We can have one, we look, if we planned this correctly, we could in fact have 365 days of trans solidarity. We could take all of the days, I don't know, the system people can have like the leapier day or something like that. We'll get the February 29th.

I mean, we're gonna have the February 29th. We already have Mayday, it's called, you know, there's no need for a second Labor Day. I really feel like if we keep doing this every year, we can just take it. Yeah, we can get rid of February day and make it a based Labor Day again. Exactly.

I mean, it's Trans Labor Day. I mean, I don't know, that's a lot. I mean, I'm only visible one day of the year. And I only remember things one day of the year. I don't know. I don't know. Okay, okay. There's one day, we got one day of pride. There's like, isn't there like a bisexual visibility day

or something? There is one. There is. Yes, bisexual is only appear for one day. There is one. There is. Yes. Bisexuals only appear for one day. It's at least three days. Are we doing a four? Do I be four?

There's like two other trans ones. We could possibly have a full five days that we, that we're visiting. I'm just going to put forward that, like, listen, if you also want to, you know, and if you can get something together for Sunday, September 3rd, we could just make TransDistral Dairy followed by TransDave Wrath. You know, because if the picket line has to go too long, well, you know, we get mighty onary. Well, and it also, okay, like I have been watching you all make up with Wrath, Monthos, and enough Pride and Wrath time jokes for too long.

There has been not enough Wrath, so I'm calling you for more Rath days. We need to actually do the day. Absolutely. Oh, so we're gonna have your workplace. Oh, absolutely. Organize your workplace. Fine, you know, and if you find out that like the people that own your company are fascists or helping

the fuel the genocide, organize even harder. Help get friends involved. Have them try and get on jobs to help take those motherfuckers down. Remember, there's so much you can do to cost the people that are trying to kill us a lot of money. Well, also making your lives so much better. So do your part. I hope to see you all again.

Well, not again, I hope to see you all there. And again, it's going to be September 2nd, 4 p.m., Pioneer Square, downtown Portland, Oregon. And be there for the rally, listen to people's voices. We are doing this for a reason. It's important that we give trans folks a platform and support us on the picket line. We would really appreciate the see-through. Oh, you can also find a link to all this on the Coalition of Independent Union's Facebook

page. We also have an Instagram. You can find us on just just type in coalition of independent unions or C.I.U. Now we'll put this in the description. Perfect. Perfect. And if you need any more information, please feel free to hit up either of those accounts. So I'm going to be happy to inform you on whatever you need. Yeah, with that, wishing everyone a happy Trans Day Solidarity, if you're a boss, wishing you a bad Trans Day Solidarity. Um.

Yeah, and everyone, go out into the world, make more Trans Day Solidarity, make more bosses, sad, make workers happy. This is within your power to do and, yeah, go go into the world and make Miss Jeff. The End The End The End

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Hey everyone, it's me, James today and I'm joined by Julia Messner from SeaWatch. She's one of the spokesperson people for SeaWatch, SeaWatcher, organization at Rescue's Migrants in a Mediterranean. Hi, good morning, welcome. Hi, thank you so much for your invitation. Yeah, not good morning for you, I guess. And could you start off by explaining to us perhaps what C watch does and why there's a need for it to do that as well? Yeah, of course. So C watch is a civil-sea and certain rescue organization, so we are trying to save people from distress at sea in the Mediterranean Sea. So you can imagine the situation being very cruel

at the European external borders right now. So far, more than 2,200 people drowned only this year while trying to flee to the European Union. And the area we cover, people are mostly fleeing from Tunisia and Libya, for example, to Italy, but also trying to reach Malta, for example. So what we are trying to do is actually really rescue them by with ships. So currently we have two ships, one is prepared at the moment for its first operation and the second one had just had rescue on the weekend and is now

currently blocked initially. And on the other side, we also have monitoring airplanes surveying the area and trying to monitor the human rights situation over the Mediterranean and trying to monitor firstly state violence, but also secondly, trying to give information when the airplanes are finding boats and stress then for people being rescued. Okay, so there's a lot there I think that we should probably break down for people. And the first thing I think is you said that one of your boats is blocked.

Now, maybe people weren't be familiar with the way that certain European countries have reacted to the migration coming across the Mediterranean. So can you explain what blocking constitutes? Yeah, so in Europe since a few years, in several years, we also see an increase in ultra-right wing movements and also ultra-right governments. So what is happening now, especially in Italy, where we are operating from, is that we have a ultrawight wing government under the President George Ameloni installed, and the government is currently trying to hinder civil-sea rescue because it's a way to actually hinder

and also block migration. So in the beginning of the year, for example, there was a decree put in place that really makes it so much harder for us to operate. And at the moment, after our rescue on the weekend, we are blocked for 20 days, meaning that we cannot go out and do our usual work in the Mediterranean, but our ship has to stay in port because Italian authorities are claiming that we violated the decree, which is actually going against international law. Yeah, so I think when you say that they're trying to hinder migration and the Mediterranean, that's quite a nice way of saying it, I guess, because what this means is that they are making that migration even more dangerous than it already is by not allowing people to be rescued.

And as you said, it's already incredibly dangerous and the more tired. Yes, correct. The Mediterranean Sea is a graveyard. Like as I said, more than 2,200 people died this year, only crossing and thousands of people died since 2014. Like numbers can be seen like with the IUM, so the international organization of migration, for example, that are monitoring also the situation in the central Mediterranean.

And what this plays, or did this external border actually constitute? It constitutes is a crime scene, a crime scene, again, for crimes against humanity, because state states are like purposefully, really intentionally, um, letting people drown. Yeah, and it's tragic. It's really horrible. Um, can you explain a little bit about like the way that I guess just the mechanics of people crossing the vessels are used, where they, like the journey of people, if people have seen the Mediterranean at all, like depending on where they live, obviously they might live on the med, but if they don't knew, maybe they've seen beaches and beach holidays in Spain or something, and obviously that's

not all of it. So can you explain a little bit about the conditions of the crossing? Yeah, so people are, like, people that we rescue mostly are trying to flee from Tunisia, as well as Libya. So the situation in Libya, for example, is really horrible. It's very violent. There's a lot of documentation of torture camps, of rape, of murder, of slave trade. And people that comes come from the sub-Saharan region and are trying to flee to the European Union are crossing Libya, for example.

But also in Tunisia, the situation at the moment is very dire, is it's very racist. There's racist violent campaign started by the Tunisian President in the beginning of the year, especially. So we see a lot of institutional racism. We see a lot of racism and also a lot of violence on the streets. So people are really trying to flee from the country.

And people are using all means possible of course, because they have to, there's no easy way to come to Europe. Then people fleeing cannot just take a train or an airplane actually and then like trying to reach shores of the European Union of a boat is they only mean so they're really forced to do that and boats that are used are for exampleatable boats, but also metal boats. And these metal boats especially are very, very dangerous because they are only constructed very, really not in good condition. So they're really easy to sink.

So as soon as water comes in, these boats are actually sinking. So people are also mostly not wearing lifewests. So it's really dangerous. The number of people on the boat is way too high for their capacities. So most boats as soon as they go on to see they are actually in distress

and they are in need of rescue. Okay, yeah. And then let's talk about some of the rescues that see what has been able to do. Some of them have resulted in really big numbers of people you've been able to save. I think there was one in 2017, which was 50-something people. Is that right? Yeah, I mean, quite very well be 2017.

I didn't work with SeaWatch, so I don't know which rescue me. You mean exactly. But for example, just now on the weekend, we rescued 72 people actually out of distress and see with our ship Aurora. Okay. So let's talk about what that rescue looks like. I guess what happens is maybe the aircraft spots to the ship is in distress, is that right? And then your ship can respond and go to them.

Yeah, for example, there's also another organization. It's called a land form. They are like a distress hotline where people in distress at sea can call and they are also giving them the information to all ships in the area and of course to authorities. So on the weekend, our aurara actually first supported another civil search and rescue ship from open arms with their rescue. And then was led to this particular distress case, also with the help of our monitoring flights operations, which are called airborne. And the people were then rescued on Friday, as said 72 people. And then normally, what you have to do is of course inform the like the competent authorities in the area,

so state authorities, and according to international law, then state authorities have to coordinate the rescue. So we, of course, communicated with authorities and authorities only after a while actually assigned us to the port of Trapani. So Trapani is in Sicily, on the island of Sicily, and it was much farther away than the near-resport, which was on the island of Lampi-Jusa.

So you have to imagine, of course, at this stretch and the rescue cases, are very dangerous situations, and people, of course, need immediate support and need immediate transfer to the land where medical help can like intensely happen etc because people might be on sea for several days they might be on in psychological but as well in physical pain and stress as well in physical pain and stress. They might have burns from actually a fuel and sea water makes, for example, and of course,

dehydration is a very, very big danger and risk for people in this dresser sea. So after we rescued and after we got assigned the port of Tapani, we made very clear to the authorities that Tapani is way too far and that according to international law, we need to go to a lumped doosa because it's the most super-sutable nearest port. But then we got noticed that we are not allowed to go to lumped doosa, actually. And that meant that we were in total forced to stay on C for 37 hours and also for those people in distress and rescued

they were forced to stay more than 24 hours additionally on C like having to really indoor those really difficult situation. The next day Saturday we were still on the sun, like really burned relentlessly by that point. And people were facing dehydration. One person actually fainted and it became really increasingly dangerous the situation on board, which is why we communicated more and more with authorities. And they were then forced after a while

to let us enter to Lumpur lump the juice up because the situation was really dying and people needed to disembarque on land. And yeah, I think that's a really good summation of some of the sort of hostility you encounter from states. Another thing that C Watches encounter, at least in the past, is either negligence or interference by state agencies like at sea. I'm not sure if it was a Navy or the Coast Guard. I think it was maybe the Coast Guard,

the Libyan Coast Guard had interfered with a rescue. This may have been before you started, so it's fine. Yeah, but the so-called Libyan Coast Guard is an actor that is really violently intercepting people that are trying to reach European shores and also violently interfering with rescues of civil-certain rescue ships. So we saw, for example, shootings, like shootings in the air, like in the direction of our airplanes,

but also in direction of other search and rescue ships, for example, we saw intimidations, we saw violations of international law and human rights by the so-called Libyan coast guard because what is happening is that the European states, the European Union is actually supporting the so-called Libyan coast guard to intercept people at sea so to really block people from getting to the European Union. Yeah, and it seems to be a strategy throughout the European Union, right? It's rather than supporting people as they come, making this journey less dangerous, everything they could do to keep people in North Africa or to stop them coming to Europe at all.

Yeah, absolutely. We see this on a very practical level in the Mediterranean Sea, but we also see this on a political level. So with externalization policies, with deals with Tunisia, for example, just recently, there has been a deal between the European Union and Tunisia with a lot of money involved to actually trying to block migration again and to increase the support for the Tunisian Coast Guard for example.

But we also see a lot of political talks between Italy and Libya. Libya is also now a former colony of Italy, so there's very close ties and a lot of influence. And just a couple of days ago, there was the transfer of two ships from Italy to the so-called Libyan Coast Guard. So they're really also supporting this very violent, very dangerous actor with technical means. Yeah, and obviously, like, people who listen to all our episodes will be aware, like there's increased violence in the Sahel. There's a now, like large-scale protests in Syria this week. It's not as if the people will, there will still be dangerous situations for people to flee. And what the EU is doing is making that dangerous, journey more dangerous rather than sort of accepting that it's a thing that happens to humans

and trying to make it less deadly. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, it's a thing that happens to humans and trying to make it less deadly. Yeah, absolutely. And it's like it's a very politically induced situation and we are all like the European Union is supporting human rights crimes, like with the money of the European Union, human rights crimes are actually committed. So a couple of weeks ago, we saw the potations from Tunisian authorities of people on the move to the Tunisian Libyan border, so to the desert, and people were actually left there to die, literally. Another way that you guys encountered state-level hostility is with these legal actions, right, that have been taken against you, against seawatch, against individuals who are

a part of seawatch and against vessels that se watch aren't? Can you explain some of those? Yeah, so for example, I mean the most recent one with a blockade of our ship, so it's blocked, like according to state authorities, because we or they claim we violated the Italian decree that I just talked about. And they actually said that we had to request a port in Tunisia and bring people back to Tunisia, which would have been completely against international law, because Tunisia cannot be considered a safe port or a safe country of origin. So now we are in the process of waiting for the aurora actually to be deep blocked again. But also, it's Italian authorities, of course, trying to criminalize person, like persons. For example, in the case of Kahulah Rakheta, who was a captain with us in 2019, and who had to enter also the Port of Lampedusa because of the very, very difficult situation on board,

because the ship was forced to stay several days really on the Mediterranean Sea and the situation became very dire. So there was also proceedings against her in person. So really people that are trying to show solidarity and support people on the move to claim their human right to claim asylum are criminalized on the basis of accusations that are just completely not true. I can't rule out accuracy for example was also like all the charges against her were dismissed. There was no legal ground for them. Yeah, but their harassment obviously still hinders your work, right? Even if the charges are dismissed, like the time that the ship can't go out.

Yeah, absolutely. And it also is also a means to implement fear now in people's minds. Because of course, it is super scary to be accused by a state to have actually violated law and you are facing charges of years in prison. And only that fear can already do a lot, but we don't only see this in Italy, we also see this a lot in Greece, for example, a country which is also really trying to to criminalize humanitarian and political or like, yeah, humanitarian workers that are standing in solidarity with people on

the move. Yeah, and so people might not be as familiar with the landscape of migration. So maybe you could just explain like where the boats are based because you talked about Greece. I know that that multis authorities have also like what cases against see watch. Can you explain the different landscape, I guess, of where your boats are based and where they tend to sort of end up relocating or taking people to once they've been rescued. Well, we take people who've been rescued a lot to Italy, but we're also, of course, trying to coordinate with Maltese authorities who also have the legal responsibility to take people in, but Maltese authorities or Maltese, the state, is actually really irresponsible. So we really see as little engagement of the country as possible, we see a lot of hindering of migration,

we see very special cases with Malta, where Malta, Maltese authorities are actually, for example, communicating to merchant vessels who are finding or who are in vicinity of this risk cases that they should just hand out fuel to the boats or hand out water. So those this risk cases, those boats are actually making their way to Italy on their own so they are out of my mother's responsibility. Oh wow. Yeah, so it's kind of passing the back along. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just so sad and how similar so much this is to the way the US deals with people coming across our land border, which is often dear to, to say they have, they've been back to Mexico, which again, is a violation of international law and it's not a safe place and again

People in the US have been criminalized for providing drinking water to people in the desert, right? And even if it doesn't work, it scares people Yeah, and it's like definitely it's not only a European Kind of situation. It's the situation at borders in general Yeah, because borders are in the end a construct to safeguard in, I don't know how to say, in the coordination marks, your apparent space. Yes, exactly. And to kind of enforce some kind of notion who's in and who's out and who's the other and who's the same. I wonder, the one thing that people will be wondering is obviously

seawatches are large scale operation with quite substantial assets. And people may be wondering like, how is seawatch funded? How do you get, you know, you need experience captains, you need maybe people who experienced in rescue operations at sea, pilots, where do all these people come from? Well, like they come, I mean also from the general public, we have so many volunteers that are working with us really also. We have people that are riding us and trying to support. And of course, like everybody can, like, or anyone can have a look at the website. We have a job offers on the website, usually as well.

And like, if you want to support really, I have a look and also try to reach out in case of any questions. And like, see what, and also, other civil-sea rescue organizations are really sustaining themselves and are financed by donations. So we are solely financed by donations and we are really like trying to keep the work up

as much as possible. And we have lots of different opportunities as well to support not only by working with us but also in spreading our message on social media so that's maybe the easiest for everyone who has social media accounts. Just like search, see what you will probably find our accounts on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook, but also on TikTok, for example.

Like inform yourself, educate yourself and share the message, talk to your families while having dinner, talk to your friends and also support really self-organized groups of people on the move. So for example, you can inform yourself by finding refugees in Libya, the group, or refugees in Tunisia, on Twitter. They are actually talking about their situation in the country, but also like on migration groups. Yeah, I wonder like talking about refugees in Tunisia and Libya has sort of reminded me

recently we discussed on an episode like the presence of the Vagna group in Africa, right? So, definitely they've been in Libya before they are now in the Sahel and Central African Republic in different places. And how people have reacted very differently to a presence as a Wagner group in Ukraine, to the presence of a Wagner group in Africa. And I wonder, and this isn't to say that people, I don't want to be constricted to saying that people shouldn't have solidarity with people fleeing conflict in Ukraine because they should, and those people have every right to a safe place too. But has there been a change in the tone or the,

just the material support for you guys since the conflict in Ukraine, grew broader, like grew out of the Donbass and Crimea into a full-scale invasion? I mean, we see like we are in a situation of like multiple crises. Now of course, we saw the invasion of Russia in Ukraine, but we're also we're facing climate change we're facing a dire economical situation etc so also our donations went down in the in the past year definitely but we are still also so lucky to have like a very strong solidery basis of people supporting us so I think it's like it's kind of both a little bit.

Yeah, I always think with respect to the solidarity, I've never really seen like every time so there's a larger scale crisis at the southern border of the United States, right? Like recently the United States government very similarly to what you were describing was keeping people in the open desert and leaving them there for days without food or water. And hundreds of people mobilized to help them, people who you might not expect to be particularly

radical in their politics or, you know, in sort of direct action people, but they were great and everyone helped and as a result no one died. One young woman died in Texas in CBP custody. And I always think if people could see it, then like you were saying, if they can see your videos, people, there's a very human response to never want that to happen to another human being. It's just hard when there's so much going on.

Yeah, and also, I think it's completely understandable that we, like not every person can concern themselves with all the topics, all the crisis situations we're facing right now and like no one expects that of us but we can expect of states because it's a duty that they are taking care of people actually and they are really trying to set the base for everyone to like to claim their human right. And it states themselves that actually wrote down those human rights because of a certain situation. So I mean, especially in Europe, we really have like, we're just considering our history, just considering the history of Germany. We just like, it's blatant ignorance and also

completely against any historical evidence, against any historical work we've done what the situation now is and what we're actually doing at the external borders like committing human rights crimes and like ignoring the situation and actually like increasing the dangers for people on the move on daily basis. And I think I mean it's not only I mean you also mentioned this before, now, like, it's also situation you're facing in the US, and we really have to like build strong transnational movements and strong transnational ties to like work against a state violence, border violence in general. Yeah, I think that's an excellent point that like this is part of a

broader kind of state violence that everyone should be opposed to. It hurts everyone in the end. And yeah, as both of us being European people, we've seen that like very obviously, but we, I don't know, government seem to have forgotten. One thing that you mentioned that I wanted to talk about before we finish was climate change because you said, you know, we obviously, like the, it's very hard for someone living in Europe or North America this year to pretend that climate change isn't happening,

like with soaring temperatures, hurricane in California, wildfires everywhere. Can you explain a little bit? So I think one thing that people fail to connect is, and maybe that's largely due to bad, not bad reporting perhaps, but like it doesn't get mentioned in the reporting. When we talk about migration, we don't talk about climate to bad, not bad reporting, perhaps, but it doesn't get mentioned in reporting. When we talk about migration, we don't talk about climate change.

And we talk about climate change, we talk about migration, but the two go hand in hand, right? The people, certainly many of the people that I see are southern border coming from areas most affected by climate change. Is that something that C Watch sees too? Like as parts of the world that are more marginal for people to live in, get even harder to live in, are those people coming, you know, being forced to leave, I guess? Let's look at science now and about, we at research and like millions, millions of people are well-reposted because of climate change in the next years. We can't deny that fact. And we, as European states and European societies, are a big part of why this is actually happening

and why climate change is increasing in the speed that it is increasing right now. So we have a huge responsibility to take care and like to support people actually on the move. And I mean, as we watch, we don't make any difference as of why people are fleeing. People are in distress at sea. People are being rescued.

That's it. That's the only, like, response that's the only perspective we have supporting people that are in distress at sea. Because if you are calling an ambulance they also don't ask, oh hey why are you actually calling the ambulance like did you via you in this situation the ambulance is just coming and this should also be always the case in the Mediterranean. Yeah yeah yeah or anywhere else who see. So I wonder like the last couple I think they wanted to ask you more broad, but you spoke earlier about the rise of right wing

governments and movements in Europe. And when we like obviously talk about the history of the right wing in Europe, we think about fascism and I know people who listen to this podcast will be very invested in like their history and current struggle of anti-fascism. And would you say it would be fair to cast what sea watch is doing within the broad spectrum of opposing fascism or opposing, I guess, of nationalist state violence, right wing state violence. Absolutely. We are part of anti-fascist movement. We are anti-fascists by core. So we definitely define ourselves as anti-fascist activists activists. Yeah, nice. And I wonder,

the last thing that people want to show the solidarity, you mentioned some ways. And it's really a thing in particular,, like I know people have contacted me about volunteering for seawish before and I've directed them to your website. But when we do have a lot of listeners in Europe and they're particular things that you're looking for in volunteers, obviously anyone can donate and they should if they have money. But what are you, is there certain qualifications you desperately need? So I mean we are of course always looking for people that are supporting our operations in especially on sea but also with our airplanes of course so if you have

Captions qualifications or other qualifications that allow you to go to sea and sail or engineering qualifications, for example, or medical qualifications as well. We're always looking for nurses, for doctors supporting on the ships. Then please just have a look at the website and reach out. We have a specific form as well, where you can just also sign in for interest, basically,

and then our pruning department takes care and sees who and when it's actually fitting. Okay, yeah, that's great. Hopefully some people can reach out. And before we finish up, is there anything else that you'd like to share with people that you think we haven't got to? I think we didn't talk about Frontex, for example, or some context. Oh, yeah, let's do it.

Explain Frontex to people. Yeah, so Frontex is the European border protection agency and so called actually, of course, got and border agency. And front text is also surveying and working on the Mediterranean Sea and like responsible for border protection specifically in general, or it actually has a double mandate. So border protection on the one side, but also a coast guard to do these Europeans on the other side.

What we criticize is of course that fauntex does so-called border protection and does not actually support people on the move and people in distress. So this double mandate does not work at all. We see a lot of non-coordination, a lot of non-information and also a lot of violence of context. So, for example, a context, oh, there was a report from human rights watch for example that context is complicit in pullbacks by the so-called Libyan Coast Guard because there is actually communication between the context and the so-called Libyan Coast Guard and the so-called Libyan Coast Guard Coast Guard can then detect boats in distress their location with this information but

provided by the context and bring people or force people back to Libya, for example. So Frontex is really an actor that we criticize hugely and that we actually working towards their abolishment because how the organization or the institution is working right now does not have anything to do with legal rights of people. Yeah, and people will be, we spoke with Ruth Kinner, who's a professor at Eluffa about lifeboats in the UK, because the UK has a notionally dist, it has a very real distinction between rescuing people at sea and doing border enforcement and those two are different things. Yes, it's also in the Kropakins book, Meetulag, he talks about the value of lifeboats and volunteer organisations such as your own, it's very foundational to people

talk about Meetulag, but this is one of the foundational examples of it. So can you explain what a better system, I don't know, obviously, I'm, like foundational examples of it. And so like, can you explain what a better system, I don't know, obviously, I'm not asking you to like solve all the world's problems, but like, what would it, we can make relatively few changes, I guess, and make this so much more humane and not have someone's little children drown in the Mediterranean. So I don't know, people don't have to live into someone who speaks a different language from them, or whatever people's fears are of migrants Can you explain what that would look like?

I mean we need freedom of movement That's for sure like and this is also one of our basic demands We need freedom of movement for everyone. We need people to have legal and safe pathways to Europe so safe passage We need a system that in accordance to the needs and the ones of people, people are actually also redistributed over the European Union and like can join their family members, for example, or their friends, their support systems while trying to flee violence, while trying to flee from places where they cannot live in the end. So this is really like what we are focusing on in the end to have people coming to Europe

through safe passages. So and this is really what needs to be established. And of course, in this current situation as a first step, we need a European coordinated search and rescue program with the only mandate to rescue votes in the stress to rescue people in the stress, to actually make sure that the situation, the death trap that the Mediterranean Sea is actually constituting at the moment, stops like this situation has to stop immediately. Yeah, and it could stop very quickly, right? The level of resources that state term available to deploy, they could make this go away very quickly. Yeah, I think they could have,

if there wouldn't be actually focus on externalization and blocking people to come. Yeah, and I think, like, I don't know, when you think about that, the fact that that's a conscious choice and the results are that it's very, very sad. And in the UK, we seem to just talk about it openly now. Like, they have whole campaigns about stopping small boats. But yeah, I think people need to realize that they're like, it's not boats that they're stopping. It's little children that they're consigning to risking their lives. Yeah, children, it's women, it and men. It's a non-binary person.

It's everyone who wants to reach safety and everyone deserves to be rescued. Everyone deserves to live, no questions asked. Yeah, no. I think that's a wonderful place to end, actually, because I think it's a hard statement to disagree with. What are your Twitter handles? Where can people find and follow CWARCH?

CWARCH crew. OK. And that's all over. That's your URL as well. Yeah, so let me have a look. So I'm not saying anything wrong. But CWARCH crew, so at CWARCH crew, on together and also in Small, is actually our German

account and our international account is at See Watch underlying INTL for international. And then we also have an Italian account for all Italian speakers. Okay, perfect. Yeah, we'll make sure that we link to those two. And thank you very much for your time and this afternoon your time morning, my time. Thank you so much for the request and for talking to us. Yeah, of course.

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available on the IHerDWAD, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and you can't spell falling apart without Republican Party, or at least several of the letters. Falling a party. You use that for that, are also in this garrison

Hello, how are you doing? Good over there, Risen and Atlanta. Yeah, yes, I just got back from a visit In Portland where we watched many upsetting things Back to back upsetting things. Yeah, probably the most upsetting of which We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. We did. watching the Republican debate. Yeah, that was a really good palette cleanser. So, you know, this is not the most timely thing because we didn't wanna just like do a reaction podcast where we talked about, here's what we thought about,

you know, the Vex answer or anonymous white man number fours answer to, you know, these various questions. I thought Chris Christie was very put together on top of it. On message. Yeah. Yeah. No, we wanted to look at like wait for some polls to come out and actually kind of both talk about what happened and kind of what worried us and also how it seems to be playing

with the base and the American voters in general. Cause all of this matters, because again, the Republicans are, I mean, we are all a little bit the architects of collapse here and are in our lovely society. But the Republicans, they like to, they like to really pump that shit into a higher gear. So, you know, I think the thing that kind of stuck out to both of us most, and the

thing that's been one of the primary kind of takeaways, the one of the main things people have talked about after the debate, was Vivek's performance, Vivek Ramaswami, who is prior to, I even made a little comment prior to it that I didn't, I didn't know much about him or think he was much of an entity in this,, you know, in part because that's true. He was somebody who is just kind of coming onto the scene in politics. I wanted to talk a little bit about how he started that because there were some stuff I was unaware of here prior to him announcing his candidacy. He's one of these guys who kind of started because he comes out of biotech. He's one of these guys who kind of started, because he comes out of biotech.

He's a quote unquote entrepreneur. And specifically, he's the kind of shitty entrepreneur who like has managed to get rich largely without actually contributing anything, like primarily buying up patents for drugs in development that he profits on, but then later I found not to work as a big part of where his fortune comes from. And he started kind of, about a really about a year ago, I think, trying to brand himself

as a kind of political influencer, specifically through like social media. And he had been getting a lot of attention, like as a result of the success of his, cause he's one of these guys, he's good at using social media. He gets up to, you know, he's had a couple hundred thousand followers when he announces his candidacy.

And prior to announcing his candidacy, he had done well enough at kind of building a brand for himself that in 2022, early 2022, he and the daily wire start putting together a contract. And they want to bring him on presumably for like a frightening, like a deeply upsetting amount of money to do something that they haven't really done before, which is just kind of launch a, like a show based around him

that's like a news and politics show, which was a little bit different kind of than a lot of the deals that they've had before where it's more like, here's Matt Walsh's podcast where he's going to try to get people killed. Here's Ben Shapiro's podcast where he's gonna get angry at the Barbie movie. This was like, we're launching a news and coach, like a news in politics podcast

and Vivek's going to be like the face of it, right? So it was like, like attempts at actual, like a political analysis, mostly from my libertarian perspective. Yes, yes. And so that's the idea. And kind of midway through after, you know, a significant amount of time in development.

And according to kind of what Jeremy Boring, who's the CEO of a daily wire said, after they had spent a bit of money kind of working on sort of the concept for this, he backs out rather suddenly. Boring later said his priorities were changing and we could have chosen to be aggressive about it. We did spend a little bit of money on the prep that we've been doing. Like, so I think there's a little bit of bad blood there actually between them. But he bounces from this deal with the daily wire to announce his 2024 campaign run. And this seems to have kind of started in early, early part, like earlier on in this year, start of 2023.

When he has this meeting with a small group of people who were described in this ABC news article as conservative operatives uh... to discuss his exciting plans uh... I'm going to read a quote from that article I'm going to run for president, Ramaswamy said on the call Ramaswamy pitched himself as a candidate who could make serious waves in the Republican primary at the meeting when met with some skepticism, Ramaswamy argued that his candidacy could also dissuade Florida Governor Ron DeSantis from entering the race, according to a source who was on the call. In the lead-up to his announcement, Rameswamy would tell several other conservative activists that he believed that if he ran, it could stop DeSantis from running, or impact his viability

as a candidate if he did enter the race, sources said. His campaign has turbocharged Ramoswamy social media presence with his number of followers on Twitter, known as known as X, nearly quadrupling, ballooning from a little over 236,000 prior to announcing his candidacy to now nearly a million followers just six months later. And so, you know, there's a couple of things that's interesting to me about that. One that he sort of he pitched himself as I can stop DeSantis from running. And it's a little unclear to me if these. One that he sort of, he pitched himself as I can stop DeSantis from running. And it's a little unclear to me if these are guys that specifically like hate DeSantis or if it's more, they don't want him running against Trump. They don't want

like a fight between those two guys. And I'm just only saying, postponed his political trajectory a little bit. And it was also, you know, before the debate, it was kind of looking like, because he was, he was creeping up on a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, looks like he's kind of either plateaued or lost a bit of support, even though a significant number of Republicans most in some polls think that he won the debate. Which is interesting to me. Now, when you and I watched this kind of the thing that that concerned us was that we both saw him as sort of messaging to the Nick Fuentes crowd. And what I mean by that is young conservative activists who are at least willing to dance with explicitly white nationalist ideas and who have some sympathies with the insurgent right, including with acts of violence committed by the insurgent right.

You know, and obviously Vivek is not, he's not Nick Fuentes. He's not a Nazi. He's not going to make jokes about the Holocaust, but he does talk about certain things in a similar way, particularly this idea of like the fact that immigration is, is altering our national character. He talks about national identity, national identity. Yeah. Which is something you hear a lot, sometimes in more explicit terms, from these, like, basically these Nazis, right? So it's kind of a, he's taking this term and he's washing it a little bit. Yeah. I mean, throughout the debate, he definitely

was like very quick to betray himself, has like the most conservative person on stage, whenever there would be a question about like, like how extreme are you on this topic, you know, they didn't phrase it that way, but that's essentially what they're asking. He was the first person to race his hand every time, he did it very enthusiastically. Many of the other people on stage

had a lot of like half a raised hands. We both noticed that disantist before raising his hand on this question, looked both ways across this stage to see who else was raising his hand on this question looked both ways across this stage to see who else was raising their hand before he raised his, but every single time Vivek was the first guy to like jolt his hand up. He was very, it was very, very intentionally positioning positioning himself as the most extreme option on the on the table there.

And it wasn't just I think the content of what he was saying that that made kind of parallels between him and people like Nick Fuentes or just kind of younger conservative like content creators and influencers. It was also like the way he talked like the his speech pattern. Yeah. How fast he. Very high school debater. Yeah, yeah. It was reminiscent of all of the horrible shit that I watched for my job. Whenever I've watched through a whole bunch of

Zoomer conservative content creators, it was that, but now on the debate stage. And this is something I even talked about in the last DeSantis fashion wave thing. It's like, we are about to hit this big wave of conservative zoomers who are going to be starting to run for office who were raised in this media environment and they're going to act like all of these kind of commentators that we see on like you to you see on rumble that we see on Twitch.

They're going to be emulating that style. I want to put a pin in that because we're going to come back to this with a with some audio from Nick himself that expresses a similar opinion. But I want to note a couple of the things that he specifically expressed that I found. We found very flashy and that I consider to be really concerning. Top of the list is the fact that he has openly stated his desire to bomb Mexico. That is a real problem.

And the degree to which a significant number of folks on that stage weren't completely willing to put that off the table is deeply concerned. That's not great. That's a, that's a, now the upside is that like maybe that's crazy enough that there's no chance independence will vote for it, but you never fully want to say that in America. There's no way to know, no way to know whatsoever. The other thing is that, you know, he has so Nick and a lot of these guys on the fascist youth right, they're huge into removing people from being able to vote. You know, Nick himself is basically a monarchist, right?

Like he wants a Catholic monarchist. He's like a Catholic monarchist fascist, yeah. And by the way, this is not a fringe opinion. Michael Knowles, who is one of the major personalities of the daily wire, one of the largest conservative news organizations in the country, has just recently went on a rant talking about all the benefits of monarchy and protecting freedoms,

by which he means the property of rich people. Knowles is also a tradcats, just a nickname a nickname. Noles is also a Catholic traditionalist. Yeah. And so these guys, they both talk about that and the thing that Vivek is doing that is sort of the more acceptable, because you can't get up on stage yet at a Republican debate and talk about the need for a king, right? But you can talk about the need to cut people out of the franchise, right? Nick being much more extreme and having the freedom to be more extreme talks a lot about

repealing the 19th amendment, taking the right to vote away from women. The vague is not going to say that, but he did say this, young people don't value a country that they just inherit. That's why I've said every high school senior, I believe, should have to pass the same civics test that an immigrant in this country has to pass in order to become a voting citizen of the country if that 18 year old wants all the privileges of citizenship as well. This is deeply concerning for a number of reasons, including the fact that any barrier you're put to voting is going to reduce the number of people, specifically people who are likely to vote for Democrats who do it.

But number two, who gets to determine those tests? Well, we're already seeing the way in which the state positions and states like Florida on education are fundamentally changing the amount of information kids are allowed to get. They also theoretically would have the ability to fundamentally change the nature of this test, you know, so that, you know, you have to express certain opinions and be inculcated in certain opinions in order to be able to vote. This is a real problem. Vivek, you know, concerns us both for this. Again, we will talk about his kind of popularity in a second, but I wanted to because when we, we, we both kind of felt, you know, this is a guy who has a lot of that Founta's energy

he's bringing. And so I looked like what is Nick been saying about this guy? And I found this video from a website you're going to hate called Zoomer National News, Garrison. It's a substack that just different like. I think I've actually been on Zoomer National News before. Yeah, it's like a lot of clips from Nick's show and stuff. So we're going gonna start watching this

Zoomer National News clip, because there's a couple of points that he makes in the first few minutes of it that I think are unfortunately worth listening to and then discussing and then being unhappy. Yeah. The only person that's gonna be good for is Vivek. It's bad for DeSantis,

because he can't confront Trump. It's bad for everybody else for the same reason. The only person that's good for is Vivek who's gonna get a bigger stage. And that's why I wanted to talk about tonight, because it's interesting about Vivek. He's an interesting phenomenon. He's a child of immigrants from India. I think his parents are from India and they moved to Ohio.

And he became a self-made nearly a billionaire. I think he's got a eight-figure net worth, nine-figure net worth. I read a Wikipedia, he's got $950 million. So he's a self-made, nearly a billionaire, first generation, Asian immigrant, who as far as I know didn't really have a much of a public profile or any kind of a political presence and just took the country by storm with a viral social media campaign. I think people just like what he says, at least that's what it appears to be. And he's been controversial. I think a lot of people like him. I think even people that don't like him have commended him on his campaign, which has been successful. He's competitive with DeSantis. DeSantis had a bigger war chest than Trump. He had a bigger war chest than any governor in the United States has ever had. I think he had raised $200 million in the last cycle. And he had the support of the Jews and Israel and all his money.

Yeah, he's governor and back on his old days. Maybe the next best known politician in the race next to Trump and governor of a major state. In other words, he's got all these advantages and this other guy who really started from scratch is now competitive with him. And I'll say too, it is unfortunate his look because, you know, I know that probably a lot of Republicans are not totally on board with like Hindu Indian. And I'm not making any kind of comments on that. I think that's just how things are. Just like with Bobby Jindol or some of these other guys that ran, when I see an Indian guy running with a name like Vivek Ramaswami, let's not pretend. I think

that's also a disadvantage for him probably because the Republican voter base is all white. It's 90% white and I know that they undertake great pains to convince the world they're not racist but or xenophobic or something like that. But you know, I'm sure they are not in love with that idea. Quite frankly, I'm not in love with that idea. I want a Christian to be president, not a Hindu. And I also would prefer a president whose name I could pronounce,

like Joe Biden, not Vivek Ramaswamy. Now, all right. That's quite a line from Nick. I think what he's actually saying there, like I think that's a joke, right? That's quite a line from Nick Fuentes. Yeah. I think he's making a little bit of a bit there.

I don't think he, but, and that becomes a little bit clear a bit later on because he talks about, he's talking about there kind of both how impressive, objectively, the success of a Vex campaign has been and how it points to the fact that he's done some stuff right, even while he's saying, I don't think he can win with the Republican voter base the way that it is, which I think is, you know, partly shown by kind of some of these polls that that come out showing him losing support. But he, he comes in a little bit later, a couple of minutes later and he talks about why he likes the fake, what, what he finds intriguing about him.

And I think that this is kind of valuable to hear. It's really more like an advertising pitch. It's like a marketing pitch. It's the perfect stereotype of like a canned used car salesman, political pitch. That's what they're all like. Mike Pence, Chris Christie, you could say they're like full of shit. Like that's how I would characterize it.

They're like another full of shit, conventional, polished politician. And they also all went through the steps. They're one statewide elections. You know, they're all governors or senators, Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, Oslo Hutchinson, Burgham, DeSantis. They're all governors, Tim Scott's a senator, and they have that canned, full of shit, polished political thing.

Both Yein and Vivek, not only are they not white, they're Asian children of immigrants, but there's also something they characterize as them that they're kind of like a new type of campaign where it's super smart. When you listen to Vivek, it sounds a lot more like a podcast. It sounds a lot more like a polemical commentator like me or like Tucker or like whoever, like Alex Jones for that matter, although that's a specific sort of thing. But maybe you understand what I mean. They're almost talking like, and they're talking to American people who have a higher IQ.

So sure, sure, buddy. That's your average podcast, Lissiter. Your average high IQ podcast. They sound smart like a podcaster, right? You know, we all know that about podcasters. It's, it's super interesting that he made the exact same observation that we did when watching the debate. We like turn to each other. He's like, oh, he's doing Nick Flontess. Yeah, no, Nick Flontess has a similar idea about him. So, I think he really does worry

me. As we've stated, his, his polling isn't better in the wake of the debate. Yeah. But his personal brand has never been better in that he's everywhere. Every big network's been having him on to talk about shit. Like this has increased his visibility, not just on social media, but as a political commenter and kind of the things that he's saying because they are so much more extreme than stuff You know even a guy like Pince was willing to say I think that's a real problem

I think it's a problem that's gonna be with us for a while because he's very young. Yeah, yeah I mean based on some of the polls to like I'm not worried about him as Someone who I think will be president that that's what my concern. My concern is how he's gonna be both influential and he's setting himself up to be influential. And I guess even more so, he's like an indicator of what the future of the GOP is gonna be. And that's the big thing that is like causing me concern. It's a type of thing I've been thinking about

more and more the past year as we've had our first wave of like zoom or candidates and also, you know, millennial candidates that are starting to fill up offices. Yeah, and I, you know, I looked into, I went to Nick's telegram, too, because I kind of wanted to see as there more that he's been saying. And he has actually been sharing a lot about Vivek. One of the things I found was just like Vivek has called specifically for Fuentes to be unbanned from Twitter.

Nick is one of the few people Elon is like, I am not willing to chuck with this motherfucker. Keep him off of my website. And Vivek is really not okay with that, which does point to you like, you don't specify that like most Republicans kind of prefer to believe pretend that Nick doesn't exist in public. So the fact that he's going to bat for him like this does point to the

fact that he sees value and he sees a political future and the people that Nick speaks to for himself, right? He thinks this is a profitable thing to be in. He's like very aware of this side of the political and yes, like he's, he, he, he, he, he knows what they're talking about. He's not here with how they speak. Like he, he, he's, he's able to understand that this is like an actual like political contingent. Yes. They may not be as reliable in showing up to the polls.

But it is, you know, as more and more boomers die off. Sorry. I know. but it is, you know, as more and more boomers die off, sorry. I know that some of the people that are, some of these people that are good as, you know, start filling in the voting gaps. Um, the other thing that he shares a lot from Vivek and there was like the specifically, a clip from the debate where Vivek talks about like cutting aid to Israel, right? And obviously, being the guy, right? Here in the cool zone, we're not, we're not pro the Israeli state.

So I'm not against that from a certain point of view, but I'm not for the same reasons that Nick went to. It's very different reasons. Yeah. But it is worth noting that like that's another reason why Nick likes this guy, right? Sure. So, yeah, that's kind of the core of the Vivek stuff I wanted to talk about. The next thing to bring up is sort of how shit polling after this. Now, as we've noted, there's been like, you know, I found an MSN article that was, I

believe it was actually just them republishing a Washington Examiner article. I'd love to see. Yeah, really solid to hear that. Washington Examiner is kind of a right wing rag. They analyze five polls taken just before and after the debate. Trump saw a decrease in two of those polls and no change in the other three. That makes sense. This decrease, it's not insignificant.

The two polls show him both, Bush and I'm down something like six points, which is not nothing, right? Yeah. But that he's still up by around 40. So it's also not like a seed change, you know? No. It does suggest a couple of things. One of the things that suggests is that there is value

to him, especially since it looks like he has lost some of his ability to message and some of his ability to rival people up because of the way social media has changed. He doesn't really use Twitter anymore. You know, he made a post recently, but he made the first post in years. Yeah, got Elon very excited. But he can't really, and he, you know, he loves to rant on truth social, but it doesn't break through the same way stuff on Twitter did. And it's possible.

Nothing on Twitter can break through that way anymore because of how much change it is. You know, it's not the same Twitter that he wrote. Yeah, absolutely. It's not the same Twitter. It wasn't 2015, 26. No. Not even the same Twitter.

It wasn't 2020. Like, it is. No. Uh, then severely altered as a platform and how it, how it affects real world events. I think the thing that you're seeing here is that he does have his core, which is a third or more of the GOP who will be right or die for the rest of their lives, presumably. But there is a softer chunk of support that is eroded by the fact that he's not in

the limelight, the fact that he wasn't up there, you know, slinging mud and arguing and, you know, talking with these other candidates. And so yeah, this is kind of a thing you could, it's probably a mistake. I'm not saying I'm a stake from a point of view being good for the country, but a mistake in terms of like his campaign that he wasn't up there,

which is kind of worth acknowledging and probably worth continuing to study. And it may be it may have the effect of pushing him to take part in some of the other debates. DeSantis has said he thinks Trump will be at the third debate. Who knows? In terms of how everyone else did, DeSantis went up a little bit about a two point bump, which is, you know, not terrible, but it's also not significant, especially given the size of Trump's lead. It's not the kind of, given the amount

of cash burn he's been going through, it's not the kind of raise he needed to keep his campaign viable. It was, it was, he did not do a performance that people were kind of expecting him to do. I think I'm kind of assuming he would try to really hard to come out as the, as like the obvious front runner. And he kind of flopped at the debate in, in at least in my opinion. He came off as very like, uh, muted, very like low key. He didn't, he didn't really say much one way or the other. He was so obsessed with what other people, like like trying to make sure that what he was saying was okay based on what everyone else was saying on stage. It was very weird.

It was very weird and not the kind of energy that suggests I am building a political machine, right? Yeah. And carry me into office. Pints went up by about four points to seven percent of voter support. Nikki Haley jumped about five points. And I would say I think DeSantis and Pence and probably Haley have are in here because they really think they can win. You know, there's a couple of those governors and stuff whose names I've already forgotten.

So no one knows who Bergman is like, everyone knows Chris Christie's not going to be the precedent. Like we know he's not really running, he's running to get a TV show on MSN, right? Yes. Yes. Maybe a bookseal to, I guess it's possible that's part of Haley's ambition too. I don't really, I don't know if it's greatest sense for what's going on in your head. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How they are all treating Trump is interesting because they're also all like kind of auditioning

to be vice president, but someone don't want that job because they're, they're being like very like anti Trump on stage. The most of the people were kind of, those people were soft to Trump. Yeah. Um, and I, I think Vivek was both auditioning for like the future of his political. I don't think he reasonably expects to be president this election. I think he may think he can win that in the future. And I think he sees this as, look, I'm young and I'm going to start building. And he, and if

that's the case, then he has done the first thing that he would need to do to be a real candidate one day, which is make a national name for himself as a guy in politics. I think he may be auditioning for a vice president and Trump recently commented like, yeah, you know, I'm not against the idea necessarily. Yeah, I was sitting here was like impressed with his performance at the debaters or something along those lines. Yeah. And I mean, the immediate reaction from almost every kind of big, like influential millennial Gen X kind of right wing content creator person, they were all saying that the fact, like very

clearly won. Yeah. Like all of the daily wire people were very pro Vivek and kind of writing that train musk recently, even before the debate, switch sides from being the desantis guy to being the Vivek guy. So it was a lot of like the intellectual dark right type, type stuff of like like online tech conservatives.

They were all very quick to jump on the, the, the train and based on his performance at the debate, they were happy with, with his overall demeanor and messaging. Yeah. And, uh, yeah. So, uh, you know, again, as it kind of stands, has anything changed? Well, yes, I know. Like the overall sweep of the the primary Donald Trump is so far ahead that it does seem unlikely that he's going to lose. But we all we've also seen it's possible for him to bleed support. And if you remember far back to 2015, 2016, when he was in these debates with the other

Republican candidates, he didn't really bleed support. Like he was very consistently moving forward. So that is interesting. That does suggest some things about how the the situation has changed. And yeah, it's also interesting. You know, polls kind of show that that voters did. And maybe one of the reasons why the Vex performance didn't boost his campaign overall is that he entered into it with the highest expectations of any of the debaters among like Republican voters. Probably this is because, you know,

in the speeches of stuff he's been given before, he's a debate guy. Like that's obvious about him anytime you hear him talk. So I think people were expecting him to do well. And so maybe it didn't, you know, if people are expecting you to perform well and then you win, it's not as impressive as a, you know, if you kind of come out of left field there. So maybe that's part of why he's not seeing stuff. One of the things that's interesting to me is the stuff that was talked about at the debate compared to what actually Republican voters care about.

The thing that came up first in the debate is the thing that is number one, getting inflation or cost under control. Obviously, that's going to be top of the list for a lot of voters. 44% of Republicans consider controlling immigration to be a primary concern, which did come up a bit. One of the things that pissed off a lot of the daily wire crew is the fact that there wasn't really a lot of talk about wokeness or trans people during the debate. Because that kind of shit is not like fighting liberalism and wokeness and President Biden. Like it all gets kind of like lumped together about a third, you know, of the electorate that's their, their big concern among Republicans. It's primary for, it's primarily for like online clicks and for driving engagement on whatever Facebook thing you want to do to harass the school board.

It is not the prime focus of the presidential. Yeah. And like issues with trans people and stuff on its own does not come up here as like a major. It's nobody's primary concern among Republican voters. Yeah. It's these weirdo freaks on the internet, which isn't to say that like they have good attitudes towards that, but like, yeah, they've made sense that that's not going to be what you

put front and center in the debate. One thing that's interesting to me is that both election security and limiting abortion, which are huge issues and were big parts of the debate are very much minor side show issues for voters. About 10% of voters consider a Republican voters consider election integrity, their primary concern, about 6% consider it a limiting abortion, a top priority, which is teeny, right? Like, it's not a popular thing. They just have to, because of that hardcore of the base, they have to signal for it. The veque was the, the, the only first on stage to, to claim that climate change is not real. Yes, yes, yes, which was interesting, especially as this hurricane

batters Florida. And that's, that's a deeply negative too, right? The complete denial of reality. It doesn't take long. Vivek did not do this, but it's not a long journey to go from, I don't believe climate change is real to, I think, those fires were started with lasers from space, you know? And their inversions of that, right? Which is deeply concerning to me. But, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's, you know, the Republican debate and Vivek Ramaswamy, that's kind of, uh, are, are thinking on him as he embraces Nick Fuentes thought. Um, boy, I don't love saying that. Yeah. No, people like my, my, my main takeaway from this debate was that this was based on a vex performance based on types of I'm just going to cut out have dental cut out from that my main performance my

main opinion was this was based. And then yeah, there we go. Garrison's debate analysis. Thank you. No, please. Take away. Um, based on the vex performance was that this really was like the first glimpse of the types of like long-term results

of the alt-right era in like actual organized politics. It is our first peak at like this upcoming online conservative wave of zoomers and millennials who are, you know, between my age and Robert's age, who are gonna be running for office in the next 10 years who are heavily influenced by the online alt-right era. And that's very worrying. I mean, we saw a little bit of that with DeSantis' campaign staff sharing son and other videos. Videos that were approved by, like, a lot of people in his staff.

It wasn't just one guy. We have since found out that those videos were, approved, like in a, in a, in like a specific like propaganda, like chat that these people had. I think, I think on signal. Yeah. So like, it is, it is, it is part of like this, this, this wave that we're just starting to see glimpses of here. And it's not great.

No. I mean, it, it, it, it, it it remains to be seen like if these things will actually like pan out in elections, though. I mean, like, it doesn't seem like the Vax is going to do very well as an actual presidential candidate during this race. Previously, when Republicans have kind of ran on these very kind of online topics, like back in the 2022 midterms, it failed to give them the return on investment. So we'll still kind of see how viable this strategy is. But we're only going to have more and more Zoomers and millennials running for office. As we saw today, Mitch McConnell is literally disintegrating before our very eyes. Yeah.

And more and more of these kind of old guard of Neocons or Trump guys are going to age out in the next 10 years, 20 years. And it's gonna, we are really gonna see this new wave of politicians come in. It is interesting how much of Jen X just has not been a generation that occupies office. No, well, again, Garrison, you have not watched enough Mike Judge cartoons, but that was made very clear in the cartoon, Darya. Yes, that is true. I think, so I kind of want to end, I think the, nope, that was not Mike Judge.

What was I thinking? Why did I say that? I'm a fool. Oh, wait, because it's a spin off of Beavis and Buttat. Yes, that's why. Okay. All right. I solved that mystery. Thank God.

Now, the mystery I haven't solved and the thing I want to bring you to is like, we've said, I don't, I don't think I ever think his presidential campaign has a electoral shot. But what about him is VP? Do you think that that's likely? Uh, personally, there's, I mean, there's certainly a chance. Uh, there's a chance Trump has indicated that, that, that there's a chance. I believe Trump said he's a very, very, very intelligent person. He's got good energy and he could, uh, and he could be some form of something great, great

Trumpian dialogue. I'll tell you, I think he'd be very good as, as vice president. So yeah, it's, which it, you know, I think the fact that his, his, his overall numbers aren't trending up might hurt him in that. Although maybe it'll make Trump feel more secure that he's not going to like take anything from him. You know, although maybe the fact that he has gone so viral would upset Trump because he kind of seems to have preferred having a non-entity as his VP.

Yeah, I don't know. Cause it is like, yeah. My previous prediction was that he would try to get her shawakker. That may be kind of out of date now. Yeah. But certainly another one of these guys that that could be in line. Certainly out of everyone else on the debate stage, he was, yeah. I think the most the most Trumpian and the most like Trump friendly guy. Yeah. The one other election kind of restriction that he proposed that we have yet to mention is to raise the voting age to 25. Yes. On top of having those civic tests. But yeah, I mean, I think it's possible, but it's

it's a little too far out to say for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Well, that is, I think, where we're gonna bring her to an end for the night. Yeah, this has been, it could happen here. Until next time. It certainly could happen. It certainly could. You know, stay a little concerned. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe.

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