Behind the Bastards - Part Four: How To Build An Army

Episode Date: August 20, 2019

Robert is joined by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston for a reading of Chapter Four of Robert's. 'The War on Everyone.' Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What's clear in my throats? I'm Robert Edmondson. This is Once Again Behind the Bastards, the podcast where yada yada bad people talk about them, what not. This is the fourth chapter of my audiobook, The War on Everyone. It's our second day recording it. I'm here with Cody Johnston, Katie Stoll. Hey guys.

Hello. We are all higher than we were last time. Oh my goodness. So much higher. Very much so. It's true. The last time we were not high. We were not.

We were all strung out too. Yeah. Tired. And now we're a little bit high. We're more than a little bit high. We're more than a little bit high, but we're not as strung out. So I have a considerable assortment of throwing things around me. Yeah.

That doesn't worry me at all. Cody called this hypernormalization because I can no longer be satisfied with just, just look at this, tossing some fucking bagels. Yeah. I mean you have to up the ante after that. There's nothing for me. Nothing for me. So I have a bag of roughly 20 paper towel rolls.

I have to say that right before we started recording, Robert suggested that we all get on helmets and armor and he would practice his throwing knives and that's a no. Practice is a strong word. I just want to throw knives one episode and see if I could stick them in the soundproofing on the wall. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I would argue that we don't have to be here in front of you for that.

Well it could be on my sides. Oh yeah. Yeah. So now that you've said that you want to throw around knives and we're like, no. You can say something a little bad. You can. I have these throwing Pringles. You can throw some Pringles.

I have a box of around 12 little hundred calorie packs of Pringles that are all in an open topped box together. I am excited to throw that. If I can kind of wing it, my theory, because it's kind of rectangular shaped, is if I can wing it like a Frisbee, I can get it to go straight until it hits the wall and then bursts like a scatterbomb over an Afghan wedding. Right. If you angle it properly.

If you throw it high enough you could get it on the sound board. Yeah. I mean that's the dream. That's the dream. But I think it might be a little bit unreasonable. Have one bounce out. You have to start sharing pictures of this room so that people can get an idea of what you're talking about.

We did this morning. Okay, good. There's Dan will share a picture of the bagels that are stuck on the top of the soundproofing. Yeah. Good, good, good. So that's a plan for those bagels. And if you guys remember two months ago, we threw the coffee mate on top of the poison room.

Thank you for remembering. So when we start our new podcast, which will be named some variant of the worst year ever or the worst year of our lives, we haven't quite said it yet. Bad year. Bad year. Bad year for everybody. Bad year. Bad podcast?

Bad. Fine podcast about a bad year for everybody. In January, we should inaugurate the show by taking the, by that point, very, very, very stale bagels off of the soundproofing and taking the very, very, very bad coffee mate off of the top of the poison room and having ourselves some coffee made bagels. Oh, gross. That sounds awful. Let's do it.

Let's do it. Terrible bagels to start a terrible year. Well, we can at least see what comes out, you know? Yeah. Chew some coffee cream. I mean, it was expired the last time we had any. Yeah. How much worse could it get?

One pump, a portion of a cream. A curdled cream. One pump, a portion of a cream. One pump, several dusts. That's the Joe Biden way, yeah. Sophie covered her mouth with that. Her reaction is hard to place. No, she approves.

She liked it. She gave a thumbs up. What other podcasts talk about before they start? Well, Cody doesn't like for us to talk about too much, because we always feel like... Well, I feel like we've talked for like 10 minutes at this point. We have. We have. We have.

But like, so we normally just talk for like... Yeah. We say whatever holiday it is, happy, whatever, and then we make a couple jokes or whatever about that. And then we get started. Yeah. What is your book, yeah? Yeah, this is your book.

This is your show. And there's a version of it with none of this where it's just me reading it, so I feel like... They've got options. Yeah, they've got options. So fuck it. Yeah. Fuck them.

Assholes who donated money generously, so that I could do work. Thank you very much. Piece of shit. There are people, bastards, that haven't actually complained, but that I'm imagining, well, what are you doing, Sophie? Read the book. Oh, she's telling us to get to it. Okay, yeah, we might be high.

It's possible. Chapter four, how to build an army. Fun times. Everything you're going to read about in this chapter, or listen about, hear about in this chapter, I wrote here, but I said read. I don't know why, maybe because I'm reading, is documented history. I feel the need to emphasize that here at the beginning, because the history I'm about to discuss is very much under-reported.

Most of this is probably not stuff you heard about, certainly not in a textbook, and the question of why that is the case is a really good one, because the story that I'm going to tell in this chapter is the story of a bloody vicious and exceptionally deadly insurgency that, had a few things broken differently, might have plunged the nation into mass violence. As it was, hundreds and hundreds of people were killed, and the killing continues to this day. There's a weird way to read that last line there. This story of this insurgency starts as most stories of insurgencies do with a single guy.

This guy's name was Louis Beam. You guys remember talking about Louis Beam a little bit in our border episode? Is he one of the militiamen that had all those things to say? KKK guy. He had a lot to say. So, like me, Louis Beam was a Texan. He was born in 1946 in Lufkin, Texas, and I had a roommate who was from Lufkin once. He used to drunkenly punch out light bulbs, but that's neither here nor there.

Fun guy. Sam was his name. That's the story I'd like to hear sometime. That's the whole story. He would get drunk, and he would punch light bulbs. He was seven feet tall. So, Lufkin. Louis Beam was from Lufkin.

He grew up in the America that modern conservatives still longingly harken back to. His parents were working class people, and his father served in combat during World War II. That tradition inspired Beam to enlist in the army at age 19. He had a pregnant wife at this point, and every reason to avoid conflict, but Beam sought out a baptism by fire. And he got it. So when Beam entered the US military, he was entering an organization that for the very

first time was racially integrated. Vietnam was the first war where black guys and white guys would fight in mixed units, and black people were allowed to do all the jobs. This did not sit well with Beam, because he was a big supporter of George Wallace. You might remember from the last segregation forever fellow. A lot of common idols and heroes and people that these people gravitate towards. They're all connected in at least two or three ways. Part of the trouble of putting this together was figuring out where to stop talking about

their connections. Like with Matt Brack and the guy who wrote the third series of books inspired by the Turner Diaries, also a guest on Alex Jones' show. Right. There are a lot of these sort of, and at what point are you saying it too much, and taking the time to detract from it? So Louis Beam joins the military, love and segregation in George Wallace, and yeah, he's frustrated by the military that he finds himself in, frustrated at serving alongside

black people. At one point, Beam and several of his most racist comrades hang Confederate flags in their barracks, an act of protest against the civil rights movement. That was the right thing to protest during the Vietnam War. So that's the guy Beam is. Super psyched about Vietnam, hates black people being able to drink from the same water fountains. So bringing the war home by Kathleen Bellew provides good context for the nature of racial strife among US soldiers in Vietnam during the time Beam enlisted.

Quote, while white and black soldiers faced combat together, the rear echelon was intensely segregated. Black soldiers described Saigon as, just like Mississippi. In Beam's camp at Chu Chi in Vietnam, black and white soldiers frequently exchanged insults, slights, and blows. Beam served in the 25th Aviation Battalion at a moment of escalating racial tensions. As the language of black power circulated between home and battlefront, black soldiers created a culture of aphros and black berets, greeting each other with fist bumps.

Some white soldiers in the 25th reported feeling alienated or threatened because of such actions. Clansmen serving as active duty personnel in Vietnam announced plans for cross-burnings and spray-painted racial epithets on rear echelon buildings. By 1970, the Marine Corps recorded more than a thousand incidents of racial violence at installations both in Vietnam and back home. Wow, that's actually, I'd never heard that before, that's fascinating. You never hear that story, yeah. Yeah, I'm not surprised, but also, yeah.

Back in the States, there were murders and lynchings on military bases. Yeah. Yeah. Of course there were. I can't stop using those voice of like mild interest. You're doing great. It's not appropriate for this. Yeah, in 1964, four members of the United Clans of America murdered a Black Army Reserve

Lieutenant Colonel. Later in the 1960s, the Camp Pendleton Clan Chapter reached 200 members in size and carried out a campaign of shootings, fire bombings, torture, and harassment of black marines. Beam did not join the United Clans until after he was discharged from service, but he served in a military where racial violence was common and where membership in extremist groups by uniformed service members was also common and was not illegal yet. You could openly be a Klansman and serve in the U.S. military at this point, but changes as a result of some of the things that happened in this story.

It's a good change. Yeah, positive change. It's a good move. Maybe soldiers shouldn't have the right to join organizations that urge the enslavement of huge chunks of the populace. Well, when you put it like that. Yeah. What's the, it's like 10%?

No, it's a quarter of soldiers, it's a quarter of active duty U.S. soldiers. You know, not our members have met white supremacists at some point during their time service. That's alarming. Yeah. But it's not a quarter of them are. Right, right. Experienced it.

Yeah. It's common though. Yes. It's that, yeah. That common. Yeah. Beam was a helicopter door gunner. He manned a.50 caliber machine gun on a Huey and by his own recollection killed over 50

people. Yeah. So he had, he had a hardcore job. He saw some hardcore combat. He expressed appreciation for quote, the joys of killing your enemy, but he also struggled with what would later become known as PTSD. Beam and many others at the time called it post-Vietnam stress syndrome. Because again, like this is not something people really had vocabulary for.

Yeah. After coming home from the war, he said this to an undercover reporter at a KKK event. Quote, after I got home from the war, things didn't seem like they were before I went to Vietnam. Everything seemed different. The whole climate of the nation had changed. Before I went over to fight, most of the people seemed behind us soldiers, but when I returned, it seemed the majority of Americans were against us, against the war as a whole.

So he doesn't see that as a good thing. It kind of sees it as like a stab in the back sort of situation. Right. Right. Yeah. Which feels betrayed for, yeah. Yeah. That's never happened to a soldier before, who later turned into a fascist revolutionary.

Louis Beam came home in 1968 and almost immediately joined the KKK. He was racist, certainly, but the primary hatred he developed in Vietnam was that it tends to discuss with the left and with communism. In the early 1970s, he was involved in a spate of terroristic crimes, a machine gun attack on a Communist Party headquarters in Houston, the bombing of a left-wing radio station. No one died in these attacks, and he managed to avoid charges for either of them. In 1976, he switched to a different section of the KKK, the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, lived by a little tyke named David Duke.

Yeah, D-Duke. Yeah. So D-Duke had grown up, as we stated in the last episode, reading Willis Carto's Western Destiny paper and flirting with Nazism in college, dressing in a SS uniform. Just flirting with it. Well, he has a little bit of Nazism. Yeah. I mean, he was wearing his SS uniform as a protest for a guy whose name I have forgotten,

and he marched in it up and down his school's free speech alley, but he also had an SS uniform. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The Ku Klux Klan became the most prominent Klan group of the 1970s, due in large part to Duke's decision to wed the organization more closely with outright Nazism and help organize Klan border patrols to stop migrants. Racial paranoia and fear of communism led to a vast surge in Klan ranks throughout the

1970s. What's up, Cody? Just racial paranoia. Yeah. Yeah, this has never happened again, thankfully. Go on. In 1975, there were an estimated 6,500 Klan's men nationwide. By 1979, that number had increased to 10,000, plus another 75,000 Klan sympathizers.

So, for a while, Duke seemed like a pretty good pit for someone who might manage to take on the role of being the next George Lincoln Rockwell. He was charismatic and good at drawing media attention. In 1978 and 79, he became a constant figure on American talk shows who would have him on because they thought he was funny. In 1975, Willis Carto covered Duke's campaign for the Louisiana Senate in an issue of his weekly magazine, The National Spotlight. Duke wrote,

He sees the Klan not as a terrorist organization, but as a political movement with ideological leadership. Now, yeah. Cool. Legitimizing and whatnot. Duke only won about one-third of the vote, but that was still seen, rightly, as a huge improvement in the political fortunes of the fascist right. Gallup reported that the number of Americans with favorable opinions of the Klan nearly

doubled from 1965 to 1975. Duke then represented the best hopes of mainstreamers in the late 1970s. Beam and a number of other Klansmen would wind up on the side of the vanguardists. One of these other men was Bill Wilkinson, a former mid-level leader in Duke's Klan who created his own group, The Invisible Empire, in the late 1970s. Bill was noteworthy for his sheer willingness to make violent threats, saying in an interview, I'm the only Klan member who believes in having guns around. These guns aren't for shooting rabbits, they're for wasting people.

That's a wonderful thing to just publicly say the quiet part real loud. Very loud. If he were saying that today, he would be posting it on Facebook and there would be a minion in the background, one of those little image messages, maybe a poop emoji. In 1979, Wilkinson's Klan protested a march by the Southern Christian Leadership Conference in Decatur, Alabama. They showed up with clubs and wound up fighting with both the marchers and the local police. Gunfire ensued and three people were wounded.

No one was killed, but that would change, November 1980, when Wilkinson's Klan marched against communist demonstrators in Greensboro, North Carolina. Have you heard of Greensboro, North Carolina? I have. Yeah, it's a long story that we won't be getting into in enough detail in this because we just have so much to cover, but there's a clash between the communists and between the Klansmen and the Klansmen open fire killing five of the protestors and there's stories of them specifically targeting black protestors and not shooting white ones.

It's a murder, they murder five people. Now later investigation reveals that police were complicit in the massacre, actively directing officers away from the site of the protest in order to ensure that no law enforcement was present when the Klan attacked, aside from an FBI agent who was embedded with the Klan attackers but did nothing to stop them from firing into the crowd. Cool, go FBI, why would you do anything in that situation? It's one of those surprising things. Now none of the killers in Greensboro were found guilty in a subsequent criminal trial.

They argued that opening fire into the crowd, often from the back of moving vehicles, had been justified because of the threat to their lives posed by the communists. Yeah, yeah. Because communists are inherently dangerous. There's one thing we know about communists. I love these feelings that all these people are gravitating towards. Yeah, I guess legal facts do care about their feelings. I wish it'd be cool if someone who embodies a lot of these things became the leader of

the country. That would probably unwell. That'd be interesting to watch. Interesting to watch. Like a guy, and yeah, I feel like I got a lot of... Watch. Let's talk about real history rather than your nonsense fantasizing. Just what happened, not crazy theories about the future.

Cut it out, Cody. Sorry, I'm high. I was just like, what is like, all right. So Greensboro was a huge moment for the Klan, and it was seen as many within the American fascist movement as nothing less than the first shots fired in a war to take back their country from communist infiltrators. The Greensboro Klansmen went on to become heroes in the movement, giving speaking tours and acting as living billboards for the cause.

So that's cool. Very cool. So pretty cool. And this brings us back to Louis Beam. While he was not President Greensboro, Beam kept extremely busy in the late 1970s. In 1979, Deng Xiaoping, the leader of China at the time, visited the United States. When he arrived in Texas, Beam attempted to spray him with red paint in the lobby of his hotel.

He was punched out by a security guard. Later variations of the story would mark it down as an assassination attempt against the Chinese statesmen, but the reality seems to have been much dumber than that. He was just trying to cover him with paint. Paint him red because he's communist. That's such a cheap attempt. That's such a dumb... It was the 70s.

Okay, that's true. Everything was a little more primitive, except for Indiana Jones movies. Okay, that's fair. Great time for, yeah. Speaking of Indiana Jones movies, you know what else is perfect art? What? Oh! The products and services.

Commercials and stuff. I love those things. I love those things. And unlike Indiana Jones, it was not made with the female protagonist being initially envisioned as a 14-year-old. I shouldn't talk about that right before I go to bed. Welp! Products!

We're back! Sophie just opened an enormous bag of chips, made a tremendous amount of noise. Yeah, it was so loud. Really, really unprofessional, Sophie. Yeah, I can't believe you, Sophie. Excited to see what I throw next. Speaking of professional, we're back. Oh yeah, Robert lecturing about professionalism.

I'm a consummate professional, Katie. You are. You are. Thank you. Yeah, it hasn't thrown anything yet. Yeah, except for those bagels. Those bagels I started. Yeah, those are like throwing bagels.

You gotta throw the bagels. Those are the throwing bagels. And they brought me no joy now, because I've just moved past that. But not past throwing, never moved past throwing. So when we last left Louis Beam, he had tried to literally paint Deng Xiaoping red and gotten the shit punched out of him by a security guard. Great, okay, that's right. Yeah, that will be the most emotionally satisfying beat of this story.

The rest is just frustrating. Oh, okay. Yeah. So right around the same time he was attacking Deng Xiaoping with paint, Louis Beam began to operate a paramilitary training camp in Oklahoma called Camp Polar. White supremacists would gather there to train in combined arms techniques and prepare to fight in a civil war against communists, blacks, and Jews. Attendees with military experience were encouraged to wear their medals and insignia over their

clan fatigues. So I found an interesting article from UPI in November of 1980 that covered this camp and a little kerfuffle it ran into legally when they kind of brought a bunch of Boy Scouts over. Quote, a Ku Klux Klansman who says he is prepared to do battle against communists and homosexuals and structs explorer scouts and civil air patrol cadets and guerrilla warfare techniques at a paramilitary camp, a newspaper reports. The post, which has not been fully chartered by the Boy Scouts of America, is run by Robert

Johnson Sente of Deer Park, who denies he is a Klan member, and Louis Beam of Pasadena, the grand dragon of the Texas KKK. I am proud to be a member of the Klan, said Bogart, a former Marine from La Porte, Texas, who said he had been a member for two years. There are only two groups I'll do battle with, communists and homosexuals. That's the basic reason I joined the Klan. Wow. Yeah.

Wow, what a statement. What a statement. What a man. The grand dragon. Just a simple paramilitary training camp teaching Boy Scouts, it's not a Klan camp, it's just run by the grand dragon of the Klan and another random guy. Unbelievable. Just a guy.

The article notes that the concerns about the camp were initially sparked when parents of explorer scouts and civil air patrol cadets complained that their 15 to 19 year old sons were learning guerrilla warfare techniques and racial slurs from leaders of the camp. Oh, wow. Which would be a thing to complain about. Yeah, fair concerns. Fair concerns. As a parent, I usually think parents are being too sensitive about stuff like this.

Sure. But not in this situation, actually. Yeah. Soft these days, but yeah, kids are still too soft, but maybe it's bad for the KKK to teach them how to fight a war. I feel bad about the other guy. Well yeah, you're right. The other guy's not with the KKK.

Exactly. So I guess that's fine. Yeah. Got both sides. That's why all of us kids are pussies because we didn't grow up talking like, you get it. We're all. I just gave up. Yeah.

How can you? If there's anything to edit out, it's that. No, no, no. No. It's not that I'm advocating. That's what this is. Oof. So yeah, parents complained.

Civil air patrol Major Paul Renfrow who investigated the camp stated to the newspaper, quote, there was nothing Boy Scout about it. They were on maneuvers, they were firing, unloading, using live ammunition and the parents were very upset because they were told nothing about this. These guys misled the scouts. So Camp Polar was shut down after this as a result of the controversy, but not forever. Now, Camp Polar came together again during a very different time in the US, so the fact that a lot of these guys were active duty US service members was not a problem.

This was also consequently a time in which weapon theft and the smuggling of military grade armaments like rocket launchers to civilian militias and terrorist groups was incredibly common. Might be tied together those two things. So in 2019, as I write this episode, the state of Oregon is currently ground zero for a resurgent militia movement. You can trace the start of our most recent band of troubles back to the standoff at the Bundy compound in Bunkerville, Nevada, which led to the occupation of the Malhair Wildlife

Refuge in Oregon. A number of the men who were involved in that are currently helping state-level Republican legislators hide in Idaho, or were when I wrote this. They've since come back after getting their way, because they've threatened people with violence. So even from that brief summary, it should be obvious how groups like this work. They don't have the numbers to enforce their will democratically, but they do have guns, which they use to threaten people with horrible violence to get what they want.

They're gambling on the fact that nobody else will deploy violence against them, because for some weird reason, those people would be seen as having started it. So we're all, yes, what it all is, it's that angry, angry, anti-democratic, but it's fine for them. Now, if they were Puerto Rican, would not be okay, which is why the Puerto Rican group that attacked the Capitol with guns got wiped out and, I think, executed. It was bad for them, but cool to do it. Yeah, if you're, yeah.

Wait, when was that? It was like in the 70s or 80s, there was like an attack by a Puerto Rican terrorist group. I should have looked this up before bringing it up, but yeah. No, we'll circle around some other time. We'll circle around. They got heavily punished, yeah, but not so much this. Some of them get pardoned. Yes, they do.

Oh, boy, so when these people are not confronted and forced to face consequences for breaking the law, they continue to push, which is what we've seen with all the guys involved in the Bundy standoffs, who have now continued to push local laws and stuff in Oregon. And it's what we saw with Louis Beam in the early 1980s, he and his fellow Klansmen had not been punished for Greensboro, they hadn't really been punished for Camp Fuller. And so, Beam started looking for more opportunities for he and his men to enforce their own rule of law in places where they felt the government wouldn't have the guts to stand up to them. Greensboro, obviously, had been proof positive of how well this would work.

So Beam looked south from Camp Fuller, and he saw the town of Seadrift, Texas. He thought it was another place where he and his comrades might be able to exercise their will, and force the cowardly state to flee before them. Now, Seadrift was a crabbing town, with a population of about a thousand people. Life there had been recently disrupted by the arrival of roughly 100 Vietnamese refugees. Overnight, Seadrift went from a very homogenous culture, where everybody spoke English, to a town where only 90% of the people spoke English. Oh no.

I know. Oh, it's going to cause some problems. It's bad for them. Yeah, it's why genocide is what that sounds like. So that on its own might not have been an issue, but the Vietnamese families proved to be extremely good at fishing for crabs. They worked together in large, collaborative family fishing groups, and worked more efficiently and effectively than the native crabbers of Seadrift.

That's going to be a problem. That's going to be a problem. Now, you'd think capitalism being capitalism. They'd just be rewarded for this. Oh man. Yeah. Nope. In August, 1979, there was a dispute over the distance between two sets of crab traps.

A fight ensued, and a white crabber was shot dead. Two Vietnamese crabbers were acquitted for the shooting on self-defense grounds. So so far. What happened next will sound very familiar. Rumors began to percolate that the Vietnamese refugees were being funded on sketchy government welfare checks, but they'd smuggled gold out of Vietnam before they'd fled. Several of the men in Seadrift were Vietnam veterans, and the scars of war hardened their hatred to their new neighbors, which was ironic, because the Vietnamese refugees who settled

in Seadrift did so because they'd sided with the Americans and worked with the South Vietnamese government and had to flee the country when the communists took over. Sure. Sure. The White Crabbers who were angry at them. Really ironic. You like. Unfortunate.

Yeah. Communicate. Well. This is another thing that I didn't know about. Yeah. No one talks about Seadrift anymore. Seadrift's good name for a crab in town. It is.

It is. Absolutely. Yeah. You can see like the movie starting. I'm imagining. What's his name? The guy who played Sheriff Brody in Jaws. Oh.

He was in Sequest 2. Incredible actor. Well, now you're just. Roy Scheider. I'm imagining Roy Scheider as the sheriff of this little town. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

I can accept that. I wish Roy Scheider was still alive. So they could make a Sequest 2. You could make this. He wants the Seadrift movie. What? For this movie. Yeah, I want a Seadrift movie.

Yeah. Not Sequest. We got enough Sequest. Yeah. The Sequest cameo, a movie called Seadrift. Yeah. You know what? About a crab in town.

You know what? We could have. Yeah. The big boat in Sequest come save the day with that dolphin that's smiling. Spoilers, but Sequest shows up. Saves the day. That is not what happens. So in 1980, the first of these new immigrants to Seadrift earned their American citizenship.

This provoked a paroxysm of rage. Three Vietnamese boats and one mobile home were fire bombed. There were beatings. One man pulled a gun on a Vietnamese fisherman walking across a deck and shot him in the leg. Louis Beam and his clan waded into this mess with glee and consummate expertise. They started putting out reams of propaganda, newsletters and magazines calling the Vietnamese refugees boat people and accusing them of being riddled with tuberculosis and malaria. Clan propaganda also sought to stoke fears that the new immigrants would sexually assault

local white women. Yeah. Stoke fears. Yep. The clan even named their activities in Seadrift Operation Hemline, a reference to the modest decent white women they were supposedly protecting. In one interview with a reporter, a Klansman in Seadrift said, Galveston Bay is just like a fine woman.

If you rape her, she's never good anymore. The clan. This is awful. Yeah, no comment. Also, how do you rape a bay? I mean, actually, Charles Koch could answer that question about this bay because he's largely responsible for ruining Galveston Bay. He's had his way with Galveston Bay.

Do you have a quote? He's had his way with Galveston Bay. And it's no good anymore. That old sea song. Do you know the way to Galveston Bay? No. It doesn't work. It doesn't work.

It doesn't work because we're... You know what? I'm angry that we got high before this. Oh, God. Yeah, I know. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. You're gonna throw it towards me.

I'm gonna throw the box of Pringles. Wait, wait. I knew that would happen. That was a real problem. It rained the Pringles. It rained Pringles everywhere. Yeah, I think it was perfect. You just fell out of the box.

It's exactly what you wanted. Sophie's thrilled. When everywhere. Sophie's thrilled. We're all happy about it. We're all happy about how that worked. To be clear, they're little containers of Pringles. They're not like individual Pringles chips everywhere.

No, that would cause mice. You know what I love is how satisfying that is on a podcast. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Might happen. Then you have to take pictures of it. You have to take pictures of it. She's shaking your head now.

She's ashamed. As she should be. Anyway. Discouraging it. On January 10th, 1981, the Vietnamese owned shrimping vessel Trudy Bee was lit on fire in its dock. The next night, another Vietnamese shrimping boat was burned. Local police reported seeing four white males in clan robes starting the fires.

What? Wait. Wait. Was there a fifth person? Nope. Nope. Oh. All right.

Then, yeah, it's probably the clan. Would it be a basketball team if it were five? If there was a fifth person who wasn't in the clan, maybe. Maybe the Texas Longhorns. Yeah. Yeah. So this would prove to be but a prelude. In February of 1981, the Texas KKK held a massive clan rally in Santa Fe, Texas, drawing

three or 400 armed paramilitaries. As master of ceremonies, Louis Beam burned a small rowboat named the USS Viet Cong. He told the gathered clansmen to pay attention to his technique because he was illustrating the proper way to destroy a boat by arson. This was illegal because reasons. Wow. He decried the theft of the job security of real Americans by immigrants and promised that if the Vietnamese fishermen and sea drift didn't flee by May 15th, the KKK would quote

take matters into its own hands. In March, rope clansmen started carrying out armed boat patrols of the Galveston Bay, wielding assault rifles and displaying an effigy of a lynched Vietnamese person on the rigging of their boat. Several Vietnamese families living on the water fled their homes after close passes by the clan's armed patrol. There are pictures you can find of these patrols, and they are quite shocking to behold. Wow.

Super fucked up. Yes. This is crazy. It's fucking wild. Yeah. This is a revolution. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. This is the town to enforce their laws. It's so terrifying. Mm-hmm. Yeah. In one of these, yeah. That this just happened. Yeah.

This just happened. In one of these patrol pictures, we see seven men and one young woman in a mix of clan robes and military fatigues. They wear rifles and stare out with surly expressions into the sea. Most of them are overweight, and on an individual basis, they look distinctly observed in their costumes and military gear. But there is nothing funny about the broader image of a squadron of armed and uniformed racists enforcing their own laws on American soil.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like if you just make fun of these people for appearing absurd, it allows them to do a lot of dangerous shit without getting taken seriously. Yeah. Yeah. What if one of them was like the leader of the country, him in a military uniform, like

he'll do it eventually. Yeah. It's going to look so silly. No. Yeah. And it's going to spawn like a bunch of jokie hashtags while he does the thing that does it. It's bad.

It's bad. I hope that never happens. Yeah. Yeah, it's okay. I'll call him Drumpf and that'll deal with the problem. Sure. That'll show him. So Camp Polar had closed briefly after their controversy with recruiting Boy Scouts.

But it reopened in April of 1981, which was just fine for some reason. Dozens of uniformed militiamen began showing up again, firing their guns past the homes of several black families who lived nearby on their own land. The local sheriff complained that he could do nothing because, quote, no one has filed a complaint. They won't file complaints because they fear reprisal or potential reprisal. Sure. Yeah.

That guy qualifies as the good guy in this story. Oh my gosh. Because the mayor of Khima, a small neighboring town to Cedrif where many of the threatened Vietnamese fishermen lived, was less sympathetic. He admitted that the sight of clansmen in robes was disturbing, but declared, I don't have any reason to believe the Vietnamese are not safe. Oh my god. The boats being lit on fire might be, might be one, the guy that got shot in the leg.

Frustrating. The lynched effigy of a Vietnamese fisherman. I don't know. This wasn't that long ago. No. This is, like, cheers is on the air, I think. Yeah. I don't believe it.

Dr. Frazier Crane had taken to the screen if I'm not mistaken. Maybe not by 1981. Was it 82? Oh, Sylvie's holding up two fingers because it's time for him to go. See, like, 1982. Do you look up when Cheers started? Yeah. So that I can know.

It was very well timed when she did that. Yeah. Because if Frazier Crane was around, 1980, yeah, 1982, so Frazier Crane should have said something about this. Yeah. It was. At least it had cold open. Yeah.

Yeah. At least it had cold open. Like, the whole episode doesn't have to be about it. Okay. Well, we're going to pull the ads now because I can't keep up with all these cheers gags. So. We're back. We are.

We're not talking about cheers anymore because I don't know enough about cheers to joke about it. All right. Yes. Moving on. Moving on. Diane. Oh, Diane.

Stop saying the name of Cheers people. Rebecca, you know. Rebecca. I only know them for their cameos on Frazier. The show I did watch. Oh, okay. Well, then Lilith. Lilith, of course.

Yeah. I know. I know a lot about juice characters. Okay. I'm sorry. I just know what I learned about them in Frazier. Anyway. The book.

The book. The book. Related to the. Yeah. A little bit. A little bit. So help did not come from the local government or Frazier or law enforcement. Instead, it came from the Southern Poverty Law Center who helped a group of Vietnamese

fishermen file suit against the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. The team showed up to court wearing his Klan robes, carrying a gun and claimed, I'm only charged with loving this country. Again, he wore a gun to his own trial and at one point challenged Morris D's, the lawyer for the SPLC, to a duel to the death. Yay, then. Wow. This guy.

Did he accept? No. No, we did not. Eventually, however, the sunlight of the court case acted as a moderate disinfectant, or at least the first sign of real resistance finally checked the Klan's escalating use of force. During the trial, video was played of beam training militiamen at Camp Polar. In that segment, he was seen advising his soldiers on how to conduct themselves in battle.

He said, quote, utterly destroy everybody, maximum damage, maximum violence in the shortest period of time. They can do only one thing, die, as did not go over well in court. Finally, on December 3, 1989, under an avalanche of death threats, the judge issued a court order demanding an end to the Klan harassment, beams paramilitary group Camp Polar and four other far-right militia training camps in the area were ordered shut down. The Vietnamese fishermen had won, but Louis Beam was far from defeated. 1989.

Sorry, 1981. It's probably a matter now. Yeah, much matter. Yeah, it probably has, like, other plans now. He did start making other plans. Oh. He continued to write. Oh, no.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Spoilers. It ends with federal building exploding, actually. Oh. Oh. So, Beam continued to write speeches, newsletters and articles in various far-right journals

with record, culminating in his 1983 book, Essays of a Klansman. In this book, he encouraged his fellow fascist Vietnam veterans to bring the war on home to the United States. While the legal prescriptions against Beam and his fellow Klansmen after Cedrif were more effective than the complete exoneration they'd received after Greensboro, it effectively did nothing to actually stop Klan organizing. While the fascist right receded ever so slightly in the first years after Reagan's election, by 1984, America's Nazis had realized that the president was not going to be the quasi-nationalist

leader they'd hoped he might be. Oh, no. Yeah. What are they going to do? Well, nothing good, Cody. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

So, the white power movement began to grow again after Reagan failed to ban abortion and reinstate segregation. I'm going to quote again from the book, Bring the War Home, quote, scholars and watchdog groups who have attempted to calculate the numbers of people in the movements varied branches, including, for instance, Klansmen and neo-Nazis who are often counted separately estimate that there were about 25,000 hardcore members in the 1980s. An additional 150,000 to 175,000 people bought white power literature, sent contributions to groups or attended rallies or other events, signifying a larger, although less formal,

lover-ill membership. Another 450,000 did not themselves participate or purchase materials, but did read the literature. The John Birch Society, in contrast, reached only 100,000 members at its 1965 peak. That's cool. That's a lot of people. Well, we focus mostly on Louis Beam and the KKK and neo-Nazis during this chapter, but it's important to know that an awful lot of other fascist groups were active organizing and growing during this period.

Militant right-wing organizations popped up constantly throughout the 1980s. One important group was the Posse Comatatus. In brief, the Posse's were a series of militant anti-government cells. They were believers of Christian identity theology. And these true Israelites also subscribed to a conspiratorial interpretation of American history in which all government above the county level was fundamentally illegitimate. Posse believers felt the Federal Reserve and the IRS were part of a Jewish plot to wipe out the white man.

In their view, the county sheriff was the only legitimate power in the land. And if he did not act in accordance with the wishes of the county, he should be hung by the neck until dead. Okay. Slightly different flavor. I follow. Yeah. You see where this is going?

Yeah, I do. So, as a big general rule, Posse members were big fans of hanging. Modern-day sovereign citizens descend from the Posse Comatatus. You can draw a direct line between them and many modern militia movements, including the constitutional sheriffs who supported the Bundy Klan's Malheur occupation. In fact, when they got stopped and that guy Lavoy Finning and got killed, it was because the Bundy brothers were driving with some of their friends to go meet a constitutional sheriff.

Oh, of course. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Appropriately enough, the first Posse Comatatus cell was formed in Portland, Oregon. Back in 1969, it always comes back into fucking Portland. It's so weird. But Posse beliefs did not generate national awareness until 1983, when a guy named Gordon

Kahl got into a series of gunfights with authorities. Kahl had declared himself a tax protester in 1967, writing the IRS to let them know he would no longer pay taxes to the quote, synagogue of Satan. He was a big old Christian identity fan. Here we go. Sure. I guess. Yeah.

He was arrested in 1976, but got out on parole and went to ground near Medina, North Dakota. A warrant was officially issued for his arrest over parole violations, which prompted US Marshals to try and arrest him while he and his family were driving home from a Posse-related meeting in February 1983. A shootout ensued, and Kahl and his family killed two federal Marshals. Okay. She. Mm-hmm.

Gordon went on the run after that, and was finally brought down in June after a vicious gunfight that left an Arkansas sheriff and Kahl himself dead. By the time Kahl died, the Posse movement had metastasized into a series of townships filled with white supremacist Christian identity believers who considered the federal government illegitimate were heavily armed, fiercely independent, and more than willing to kill for their beliefs. This was part of a broader trend on the far right in the 1980s to create autonomous enclaves for their ideology in isolated rural communities. Another such group was the Aryan Nations, a neo-Nazi organization centered around a compound

in Hayden Lake, Idaho. On paper, the nations were officially a Christian identity church, led by the self-proclaimed reverend Richard Butler. In the early 1980s, Butler's group began to reach out to incarcerated white Americans, eventually leading to the formation of the Aryan Brotherhood, a Christian identity prison gang that remains influential today. That's where that comes from. Hey, well that was a concise little rundown of that.

Did you know that? Aryan Brotherhood were Christian identity believers? I didn't either. Yeah. Cool. I didn't know that. Mm-hmm. Neither did I.

That's all I started researching and stuff. Yeah. Another Christian identity compound was, and still is today, Elohim City in Oklahoma. By the early 1980s, Elohim was a fully self-sufficient community, with its own sawmill, crops, and weapons ranges on 400 sprawling acres. Elohim's operations were funded by a transcontinental trucking company, and construction business operated from the compound. The denizens of Elohim considered American society to be decadent and sinful beyond

salvation, and they homeschooled their children in stockpiled weapons in anticipation of societal collapse. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, I want to do all of that without the religion. Can I just stockpile guns on a compound? I mean, I think that you can.

Yeah. That's the dream. Seems like you can. Yeah. Anyway, donate to my GoFundMe. Buy Robert a compound. So you're stocking yourself with guns? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Guns. Maybe a couple of illegally bought rocket launchers. Okay. Chickens. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Just a half. Police bearcat. Yeah. Yeah. Pig farm for bodies. Sure. I bet it would be illegal for me to do. You said illegally describing a few other things.

You know what I did? I did. Well. I don't really want to come to that place. Oh, come on. It'll be fine. It was fine with these people. It was fine with these people.

Yeah. They got to do it. But for how long? They're still doing it. All right, man. They're still doing it. Oh, God. Okay.

Keep telling the story. There were numerous other far-right groups doing similar things around the country in the 1980s. Most of them fell either into the mold of the Loham City, urging total separation from society or the Aryan nations, attempting to build a whitened urgency against the Zionist occupied government. These disparate groups were tied together loosely by Christian identity beliefs and recruited heavily from the nascent prepping movement that started to crop up in the 1980s.

In blood and politics, Leonard Zeskin notes, quote, for William Pierce, survivalist events became an opportunity for nationalists interested in self-preservation rather than the advancement of the white race. So. Yeah. Did he start reaching out to these guys? Survivalist community around the time. Yeah.

Now, Pierce's goal became to infuse white racial consciousness into the survival movement and thus turn it from a disconnected community of armed loners into something he could use to bring about the revolution he desired. Independently, Klansman Louis Beam spent the early 1980s on a similar goal, spreading white racial consciousness and a desire for revolution to disaffected white Vietnam veterans. In 1982, he wrote, America's political leaders, bankers, church ministers, newsmen, sports stars, and hippies called us baby killers and threw chicken blood on some of us when we returned home.

You're damn right, I've had enough. I want these same traitors to face their enemy now. The American fighting man they betrayed. All three million of us. This is the tact that Louis Beam takes. Beam wrote articles in which he warned of a coming mass gun confiscation. He told his readers to arm up and hide their weapons and hope that the future might bring headlines like, and this is Louis Beam's, like, what he wrote as his hoped for headlines.

He's a formerly peaceful law abiding citizens up in arms. Vigilantes of one in two persons take law into own hands. Politician cut in two by shotgun blast as he steps from car. Federal judge killed by bomb blast as he starts car. Judge found dead. Hands tied behind back. Throat cut. U.S. Senator found hanging from limb of tree on river.

Cool? That's, uh, cool and good, cool and good. June of 2019, Walter Lubke, a Christian Democratic Union politician in Germany, was shot dead by a neo-Nazi terrorist. Lubke was hated for his support of Angela Merkel's open door refugee policy. His killer had ties to larger organizations of German Nazi radicals, which included members of law enforcement. On an unrelated note, several weeks after this, members of a neo-Nazi ring within German

law enforcement were found with a massive stockpile of arms and a list of politicians they planned to murder. Cool. Wait, what year was this one? Now. This happened like weeks ago. This one was, oh, yes, this is the one I know about. Yeah.

This is the one that we all heard about. So that's cool. So it kind of sounds like the headlines beam wrote. Yeah. It just, okay. I didn't hear about that at all. When you hear about it like this, everything, it's like, there's so, all these stories and at first you think, well, that was so long ago.

Oh, it's just a crazy thing to happen. It's like, it's a crazy thing that happens and you're like, this is fucking still happening. It's all the same echo. You're talking, I start to think like, oh, maybe, well, I don't know, what's the first, do you know what the percentage of racist cops is now versus like? Is that the 10%? No, no, no, no, I mean, it's got to be more than 10%. Sure.

Like versus in comparison to later, I like, I like to think that like this all happened so long ago and that things are getting better and like there's a smaller percentage of people that are this terrible, but it's not true. It's definitely not true is what I'm getting at is like what my thought process has been this, honestly, this whole episode and anyway, and like the like the roles that those people gravitate towards. Yeah. Anyway, we're still, we're interrupting a bit.

No, that's your job. So like many white nationalists in the 1980s, hey Robert, what? Go on. Being expressed to growing dissatisfaction with the Republican Party and American conservatives in general, he damped compromise and wrote that his readers should take up the sword adding, the sword need not be literal, although many of us would enjoy righteous, the righteous satisfaction from actually lopping off heads of the enemy. A sword in the year of our Lord 1981 can be an M16, three sticks of dynamite taped together,

a 12 gauge, a can of gas or whatever is suitable to carry out any commission of the Lord that has been entrusted to you. Cool that this is legal to write. Unbelievable. Thanks Lord. In 1983, Lewis Beam published an essay in the InterClan newsletter titled, leaderless resistance. This is where that term comes from. In the essay, he argued that the top-down organization of traditional fascist groups

like his own clan, Rockwell's Nazi Party, and its successor, William Pierce's National Alliance, were fundamentally vulnerable to infiltration from law enforcement. This was backed up by the well-known fact that Rockwell's marches had often been half-composed of federal informants. It was also backed up by the disastrous 1981 attempt by several American clansmen to conquer the island of Dominica. You guys hear about that one? No.

Yeah, this is quite a tale. Dominica is a small island nation near Venezuela, an assortment of neo-Nazi commandos, including a clan leader named Don Black, who'd previously been the driver of George Lincoln Rockwell's hate bus, had gathered enough weaponry that they believed they could deploy enough force to overthrow the prime minister of that country and install their own government. Then they could use Dominica as a base of operations and as a funding engine to support an insurgency in the US. Now I should note that a lot of those guys also just wanted to make money by setting

up casinos and stuff. Oh yeah, yeah. So there was a mix of people who just wanted money and Nazi mercenaries. Yeah, that's the idea, right? Like. Yeah, yeah. Intersectionality. Exactly.

Exactly. The whole thing fell apart before any of these guys could set sail. FBI agents arrested 10 Nazi commandos in New Orleans on a rented boat filled with guns, dynamite, bullets, and Confederate and Nazi flags. Don Black was good. The best things to be with those. Great things to have in there. Just cover all your bases.

Don Black and several of these other guys spent time in prison. And when Black got out, he went on to found the neo-Nazi website, Stormfront. Okay. That's where that comes from. He was actually a pretty minor part of the, well not minor, he just wasn't a huge part of the Domenica thing. You're just kind of a guy there. He was just there.

He was just one of the guys. I mean not alone. Not alone is a big deal. So after Domenica, fascist thinkers like Beam were eager to find a new way to organize that wouldn't just get them caught by the FBI. Yeah. Yeah. As he noted in the leader list resistance, an infiltrator can destroy anything which is

beneath him in the pyramid of organization. In order to counter this, Beam has suggested white supremacists adopt a cell type organization. Similar to those used by communist insurgencies. To quote Leonard Zeskin's blood and politics, Small groups of people worked together but were known to only one another. Other small groups worked independently, and the participants of one cell remained unknown to the personnel of another. Thus, an enemy infiltrator could possibly betray one cell but couldn't break up the

entire underground. While this cell structure was an improvement over the traditional pyramid, Beam decided it also had weaknesses. The problem was it required a central command to give directions to all the cells, and their new vision of vanguardism did not support one single leadership. Being proposed, instead, a structure of cells like the communists eats operating independently of the others, but without headquarters. Sounds like terrorism.

Yes, it does. Now this put Beam in direct opposition to William Pierce, his national alliance, and the idealized neo-nazi insurgency he'd imagined in the Turner Diaries. The order had included a strong central structure, directing a series of semi-independent cells and wielding them as weapons towards the greater goal of disrupting society and rendering it ungovernable. Pierce and Beam in their separate camps were at loggerheads, but in 1983, a man came along with the vision to synthesize their dueling theories into one violent whole.

Robert J. Matthews was born in Marfa, Texas, on January 16, 1953. He joined the John Burt Society at age 11. In 1971, he was on his way to enlist at Fort Huachuca, Arizona, when he heard a radio report on the prosecution of Lieutenant Bill Cowley, the American officer who presided over the murder of hundreds of Vietnamese civilians at Mai Lai. Matthews, obviously, thought the killing of women and children was imminently justified in the fight against communism. He decided not to join an army that wouldn't let him kill children with impunity.

We all have to have values. Yeah, values are critical. I will not stand for this. Let's try and think of that. I was all fired up to go to Vietnam until I learned that my army prosecutes people for war crimes. No, sir. No, thank you.

No, thank you. I've changed my mind about this guy. Good news is he did still find a war to fight. Oh, good. Yeah, I could see your worry written on your face, Kate. It was his destiny. It was his destiny. Matthews first found himself drawn to violent extremism as part of the tax protest movement.

He formed an anti-communist militia called the Sons of Liberty, and did time for tax fraud in the early 1970s. For his involvement with the survivalist movement, Matthews was gradually drawn into the cause of white nationalism. He moved to... Yeah, what? It's shocking. He moved to Medellin Falls, Washington, in the mid-1970s, and in 1980 he joined William

Pierce's National Alliance. Matthews fell in love with the Turner Diaries, and the vision of a possible white revolution it provided. His earliest on the ground activism involved a series of childish fistfights with anti-fascist protesters. During a Nazi rally in Spokane, in a Spokane public park, he single-handedly fended off several anti-fascists and earned a place in Richard Butler's inner circle. And so Matthews was on the Aryan nation compound in Idaho in July, 1983, for the yearly Congress

of White Power leaders. On that fine summer day, 300 wannabe Aryan revolutionaries sat down to plan the future of their movement. Louis Beam and another fascist thinker, Robert Miles, seemed to have dominated the discussion. There are no minutes taken for such meetings, since what was being planned at the Congress was the violent insurgent overthrow of the US government. But it is generally accepted that the white supremacist leaders who assembled that day walked away with two broad conclusions about their future.

Number one was the need to use computer networks to organize and coordinate the leaderless resistance Beam advocated. Number two was the value of cell-style organizations and taking the movement forward into the future. The dreams were grand indeed, and Robert Miles sought to establish a series of no less than 600 cells, each 100 miles apart, so the nuclear war they all thought was coming wouldn't wipe them all out. Miles's theories were very much focused around the importance of building a white supremacist movement that could dominate America in the wake of a nuclear exchange with the USSR.

Beam anticipated nuclear war too, but he was more interested in building a network of terror cells that could start carrying out attacks on enemies of the white race at once. But in order to do all this, Beam and his fellow fascists were going to need a lot of money. Nuclear equipment was not cheap in the 1980s, and the insurgency they needed to build required weapons too, not just civilian weapons, but military great equipment, rocket launchers and machine guns, bought from bribed military supply officers. In order to fund all this, Miles suggested robbing armored cars, and bit by bit, a plan

began to take hold. Louis Beam and William Pierce had spent years sketching out theories and passing out propaganda. They'd been rewarded by an American fascist movement that was hundreds of times larger and more capable than anything George Lincoln Rockwell had commanded. Now it was time to take the next step forward and make the fantasies William Pierce had written down in the Turner Diaries a reality. The man to do that would be young Bob Matthews. So that's the end of this chapter.

You guys having a good time? Um, yeah. Happy? Everybody feeling good? I wish we hadn't smoked pot earlier. I wish we hadn't smoked pot earlier. But I'm a little less high. That's great.

I'm a little less high. And I'm really excited for this next chapter. I'm excited to throw these seats. Is that a giant bag of sunflower seeds ever been opened? It hasn't been opened. Great. Excellent then. That's wonderful.

Sophie, I had a whole case of Perrier canned water that I planned to throw. I do think it might be Perrier. But Sophie took the case away, and I'm very unhappy. But I am at some point during this recording session going to steal the cans back and throw them. Oh! She wasn't on mic, but that was a serious, serious Sophie moment. I'll throw them at something.

I'm going to do some damage. It doesn't seem like you're going to. I'm going to believe it. What was that chapter called? How to build an army. Yep. Well, there you go. There you go.

Spelled it out for you. Yeah. Let's see. What should I throw next? Maybe these Turquins? Yeah, you can do that. 20-something paper towels? Yeah.

Soft and harmless. Yeah, you should probably run. Oh, God. That was a throw. Did you? You could have hurt yourself. That was big. It's a huge bag of rolls of paper towels.

It's about the size of you, Katie. Yeah. Yeah, last time I weighed myself, I was 12 rolls of paper towels. So you're right. I would have meant like a square footage. Oh, yeah. Well, that too. Yeah.

So you guys want to plug your websites? Oh, yeah. Cody, you go. I'm not finishing sentences as well today. Google our names and the words like some more news, even more news, and the website or like platform that you're looking for. We're all like Patreon and Twitter and T-Public, all the things. Yeah.

Thanks. Google.com. And you can use Google.com to find out if I sell t-shirts. I might. He does. It's on T-Public. Thank you, Katie. What else?

We don't have a website. Use Twitter. It's a great way to connect with white nationalists. It still is that. Yeah. I mean, if you go to our Twitter, you'll see great tweets like from this guy at Saltthrone, who wrote more like I pronounce OK in Salting Robert's Twitter handle. That tweet was made days ago.

Sophie has saved it on her phone for this moment. That's a good burn. That's a good burn. She's really enjoying it. She can really connect with her. Yeah. Yeah. That's the end of the podcast.

That's the end of the fucking podcast. See you next time.