Behind the Bastards - Part One: Behind the Bastards Q&A: 2026 Edition

Episode Date: January 13, 2026

Happy New Year, Robert and Sophie sit down and answer listener questions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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For the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight.

So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast. wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyankawali. And I'm Hurricane DeVolu. It's a new year,

and on the podcast, Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that, or am I just depressed?

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Happy New Year. Everybody, welcome to Behind the Bastards. I'll be leading this episode. I am your executive producer, Sophie Lichten. I'm going to ask Robert some of your questions. Robert, how you doing, buddy? I'm doing, you know? It's that fun time of the year where the holidays are over.

We still don't quite have to work. but also I can feel it coming, the real world, having to get back into the real world, you know? Yeah. So that part's not great. The looming knowledge that the stuff that you were like, ah, the world's over, news is over. I don't have to pay attention to anything for the next period of time. Well, that period of time has come to an end, and it's time to re-engage with reality. I'm at that part of the year.

So, you know, mixed. Yeah. What was a highlight for you over your semi-time off? I don't know. Not really any particular highlight. I just didn't do much. Excuse me? We had a party.

Thank you. And your highlight wasn't starting fire with the lightsaber torch I got you? Yeah, you got me a lightsaber torch that I started a fire with. That was fun. You got me some nice liquor. That was fun. I did. You looked very cool that night.

Yeah. Robert, Robert got me, every year, Robert gets me some kind of really cool weapon. At the beginning of 2025, he got me a bowie knife after I had surgery. Everybody else sent flowers, not my business partner, Robert, got me a really cool axe one year. I'm shetty, what you called, Sophie, this is your purse knife, which was one of my favorite things you've ever said to me. And this year, everyone needs a purse knife, yeah. You got me this thing. Yeah, yeah.

It's like a, it's a Moroccan, like, a ceremonial dagger. So, you know, you're supposed to, it's like, it's a, I think it's like a hundred years old. You're supposed to, you know, wear it, and weddings and kind of fancy events like that. I can do, I could stand to do some rehab on the blade for you. Cool. Because it's kind of dull at the moment. But yeah, you could cut, you could cut like a, like a, like a, like a goat's throat with that if you had to. If you were being attacked by a goat and had to defend yourself with a knife, you know, it would work for that.

It's pretty cool. You also one year for my birth. They got me this like horseshoe knife. That's like for like, that looks like a horseshoe, but it's for like a cheese board. I get compliments on all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that knife. Robert's a great gift giver, everybody.

Anyways, we got- It's easy if you're just getting knives. Yeah, but, you know, nobody gives me a knife the way you give me a knife. You know what I mean? Thank you. We got 481 comments on the thread asking for questions for this Q&A as of time of recording, which is New Year's Day, everyone. I'm going to ask as many as many as we have time for.

You ready? Let's do it. Let me get a slug of my Mountain Dew Baja Blast. Shut the fuck up. That's what you're drinking. Is it good? Yeah, sugar-free Baja blast. Do I need to drink that?

Because I've got a, I've got a Schweppes. Is that how you say? I don't even know. That's how you say it. It's bad. Shweps? Shweps. Yeah, that sounds right.

Right. I know what you're talking about. That's a good intro. Wait, do I need to drink that? I wouldn't recommend it. It's not good. Fair enough. Unless you want to sponsor as Mountain Dew, then... Yeah, sure.

Then it's great. Then we'll say whatever you want. Anyways, what are your tips and tricks for identifying false information while doing your research? Well, that's tough because there's such like a wide variety of false information, right? And some, there's not really any basic tips that can help. I call this like good-natured disinformation or good-natured bad information. And it's no one's trying to propagandize you. No one's trying to like fuck with you.

It's just a false version of reality has spread because somebody got a story wrong and started telling it. And other people have been like retelling it and adding into it. And if there's not like an agenda, that's kind of hard. You just have to actually dig into like what the work historians have done. I would say as a general rule, if something sounds too good to be true, like, if it's exactly what you want to believe about a really complicated and difficult situation, you should take a second look at it. And if it just sounds like too cool and wacky and like something in a movie, like a lot of

times that is true. A lot of times history is crazier than anything that winds up in a movie. But if there's like a specific anecdote that I'm like, I don't know, I'll just like type a description of that anecdote in. and then I'll put in like Ask Historians Reddit or something like that to see if, and that gets rid of the low-hanging fruit, right? Sure. If it's common disinformation or a common just like inaccuracy that gets spread around,

someone who knows their shit will have talked about it there and will have sources, right? So you're not just relying on a Reddit post. You can look back. You can find where the myth has been busted. You can also just like type in, again, like a brief description of the anecdote, comma, myth, comma, you know, something like that, to see if, like, it has been discussed in that context, or if there have been, a lot of times what you'll find as historians who are analyzing it and who have found, okay, these couple of parts probably aren't true. This part might be

surprisingly true, but, like, that's kind of how I go about doing that sort of thing. If you're asking about, like, how do you tell if, like, pictures or videos are AI generated, that's a separate set of, like, skills and tactics that probably runs longer than we have, in this episode, but when I'm just, like, casually studying history and I come across something that I'm like, I don't know about that. It's also useful when you are reading a history book, when you, like, especially, like, if it's kind of more in the pop history side of things, and you're really enjoying it, that always, if it's super entertaining, and I find myself, like, unusually into it, sometimes that's just a sign that, like, a really good writer got

a hold of some history, but it's also sometimes a sign that, like, someone's massaging the facts to make a better piece of pop history. So I will search for the book and variations of like historians analyze, response from a historian, and see, are there some professionals who have better or equivalent credentials to the author who have taken issue with some of the claims that they've made, right? These are all kind of like tactics that you can use. There's not like a one-size fits all. And like how many sources are using for different things? I feel like never just accept one source. You try not to accept one. Every now and then you run into something where like, well, there's really one book about this guy or there's like one good book about this thing. And I will at least

try then to like come across like, well, what's some like untrue? What are some bad books? Like what's some bullshit that got spread? Because then at least we're broadening it from here's what's in that book to. And here's some stuff that spread that's not true or whatever. Like you, you try to like when I'm at least putting together the podcast, I always want to be saying, Like, okay, there's more than is just in this one source. Like when I was working on the nuke episodes, I started reading that Annie Jacobson book. I realized that there's a number of people who have some good issues with that book, including some I discussed in the episode. So I read two other books, and I read that John Rubel's, like, you know, essays and stuff because they provided, like, more context.

And when I looked at the stuff, okay, there's people who have, like, issues with this part of Jacobson's book. but they seem to speak highly of command and control. So why don't I use, you know, for that segment of the history, I'll focus more on what command of control or what 15 minutes has to say. And that way, number one, you're just, you're getting a more varied, you're giving the listeners, the audience,

something more varied and effortful than just here's one book and what one guy said in one book. And you're also hopefully avoiding some of like the most obvious pitfalls. Sure. And I mean, again, Just to say the obvious, never trust the Google AI summary. No, no. And you can always, when you're Googling now, if you just want to avoid that, just with whatever

you're typing in, add minus AI at the end, just a space and then minus AI. And it doesn't mean that there won't be AI generated articles or whatever in your responses. That's basically impossible to avoid. But it cuts out the AI generated summary because that alone, sometimes it's right. And when it's right, it's like fine, I guess. But the downside is when it's right, you'll read that instead of reading an actual source that probably will tell you more. And it's also hard to tell when it's wrong. And there's often just kernels of wrong baked into the right.

And you're really doing yourself more of a favor by trying to find a better source. So I find that just not having that little summary there can kind of like avoid you sort of casually, almost act. Because sometimes it's accidental. Sometimes you can't just the way your brain works, your eyes work. You're going to read part of that summary even before you scroll down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, even if you are scrolling down to read a real thing, you may catch something in there and not realizing it, realize that you're picking up some disinformation. So I kind of start with that.

Like, that's my baseline. I've also, you can do the same thing on duck, dot go, I think. So I've been using that more. I'm kind of experimenting. I'm hoping to find this next year, like a search engine solution that I'm happier with because nothing that we've got right now is better than Google was like. six years ago. But I found Duck Duck Go generally better than Google now and doing the minus AI thing gets you better, like, or at least reduces the odds of you getting some bad information. Sure. What bastard or bastards have you not done because the research will take too

long or they're just too complicated? I mean, I haven't done the Nixon episode yet because there's so many books that I know I need to get through to do it. And that's only the part of it. I had been planning to do it in 2024 and talked about doing it with the dollop guys. They were on board. My dad got sick and I just haven't gotten like, it's been a while now. I should have gotten back into it. I just kind of haven't because it's such a heavy lift. Sure. I haven't

done Mao yet for the same reason. I do those heavy lifting episodes periodically throughout the year. The nuke one was a heavy lift. You know, there were a number of involved in that. Himmler was a heavy lift, a number of books involved in that. Just to say, the Zizians was a heavy lift. Several comments on Himmler. People want more Himmler. People always want more Himmler. That's what everyone was saying when he died. So, like, I try to do like at least every quarter, like a heavy lift effort, you know, longer episode, but there's a lot of those. So I just, there's not like a particular reason other than I just

didn't feel confident tackling that one at that time. Sure. This next one says, what are some unexpected commonalities between bastards other than grew up in poverty and had abusive parents slash guardians? Yeah, I wouldn't even say, I mean, those are commonalities between a number of bastards from specific time periods, but they're not commonalities, I think, because having being poor or having like a household where, you know, you don't have both parents around is a common thing with bastards. It just was really common for kids growing up in those time periods. Like, is it, should we see it as significant that Hitler was poor and that his dad died when he was young and his mom died tragically when he was not a whole lot older and it really

fucked him up? But it's like, but those were really normal experiences for just kids in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Sickness and disease were a lot easier to, you know, just wipe out portions of your family, and poverty of that sort was a lot more common. So I think you're kind of like a misnomer if you're looking at that as like, and those are common traits of monsters, because even if we're looking at the Nazis, it was more common for the big Nazis to have been comfortable and of like what we might call at least like a middle class upbringing than it was for them to be as like poor and downtrodden as Hitler was. And he really, you know, he had a very tough childhood. But I would say that's almost the acceptable.

more than it is the rule. One of the big rules is a kind of, I mean, it's almost like too much to say, not even like a sense of megalomania, but a desperation to be somebody, to like be someone who matters in your society is like you see it and like this kind of desperate need to be attached to whatever. group is in power, right? It's this yearning to be close to power that I think often predicts a lot of like the worst people, like the folks who will do anything for their career to like improve the perception of their place in society. That's like the biggest warning sign. I think that you see that somebody's going to do some really bad shit. Let's go to a quick ad break and

we'll be back with more questions. You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why Hello Fresh has been a lifesaver. Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense.

And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family will actually eat, and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled. That's one less thing pulling at me, and that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus freesides for life. That's right. Free sides for life.

Go to hellofresh.c.c.c. And use code rescue 50. That's hellofresh.ca.cate code rescue 50. Hello Fresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking.

Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster, hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now.

Listen for free on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyankawali. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed?

We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your our own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other.

Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. All right. So, Robert, what made you initially want to become a journalist? Was there a specific journalist or publication that inspired you to take that path? I mean, I remember as a kid during the Yugoslav Civil War and the, you know, the genocide in Bosnia, catching some news, like, live news footage from Sarajevo and thinking that, like, wow, like, what a,

Like, what an important, serious job? Maybe I'll do something like that as an adult. Like, you know, the reporters on the ground that were talking about, like, what was happening in the city. I remember thinking that, like, that's, like, something adults do. That's a serious job for serious people. And so I definitely, like, that's the first time I can remember thinking that, like, something in line with the career I wound up picking out sounded intriguing.

And then, I don't know, like as an 18, 19-year-old reading Trans-Metropolitan for the first time, it's a comic book series with a journalist as a protagonist that's set in the far future. It's very good. It's one of the best illustrated graphic novel series I think I've ever seen. And I really, I still revisited it every couple of years. That definitely, like, jazzed me up as an adolescent, as a young adult. and then I was really influenced by Occupy Wall Street. I was there at Zucati Park for a couple of days.

I saw little bits of some of the regional ones, and I just was never happy with the coverage that was going on, either like the mainstream media coverage or the stuff that was really celebrated at the time, which was like a lot of the people who were like within the movement and kind of doing movement coverage of what was happening. I mean, that's kind of where Tim Poole came out of, right? So I think maybe I was just could see that a problem was coming.

But I was not happy with what I was seeing. And I was becoming, as I became more, you know, in my early 20s, more acquainted with, like, history and particularly like the political history of Latin America and U.S. interactions in the Middle East. I grew like more and more frustrated with the news, with what I still saw is this like really important job that I thought was being like kind of. systemically done badly. I took, when I was in college, I took courses on the Holocaust and remembrance that was about how the Holocaust has been covered in, like, movies and fiction, but also how the Holocaust was reported on at the time and afterwards. A lot of that stuff, by the way, made it into the episodes about how, like, the liberal

media helped fascism get a foothold, you know, the last time. So really, since I was in kind of like 20, 21, I've been thinking about like the shortcomings of our media and how disastrous those shortcomings are. And I still kind of fundamentally believe what I did as a kid that it's like a really important job reporting on conflict, especially for serious people. And there's just not a lot of them doing it. You know, there are some great reporters, obviously, much better than me out there reporting on conflict. But I think the bulk of what gets written about war and genocide and conflict around the world, including in the United States, protests and the like, is bad. And I guess I became aware of that at a pretty young age.

Just made me think about when I was in college. I took early on in college, I got approval to take a class. I was a freshman. Everyone else was a senior in the class. But the professor, for some reason, let me take it. And it was a psychology of ethics class. And I had to do this report that was like most of what I worked on in that semester. And it was all about, you know, the ethics of the insanity defense for mass shooters.

And it was right after the Aurora shooting, the movie theater, Batman shooting. And I think a lot of that really shaped the way that I thought about people, which I think impacts a lot of our work. So, I don't know, it just kind of takes like one class. I feel like sometimes it's just one, one or one assignment, really to, like, influence you creatively. Yeah. Yeah, it is, because when I think back on, like, my time in school, I can think, I can, I can only really remember, like, one teacher, two teachers by name that I had in, like, the whole 12 years. Yeah. But I remember moments, like, more than one, like three or four.

But there's a, but I do, there are like some moments and really, for the most part, they were singular moments, like three or four of them that like were absolutely foundational to who I became, which is always interesting to me. The degree to which like both great, like school is just a complete blur. Like I barely remember it. And also I can point out like three or four moments while I'm like, well, that changed everything, you know? Yeah. I guess that's how it is sometimes. It's definitely how it was for me. Yeah.

There's several different questions that basically sum up to the same question from folks that they're asking, who's the oldest bastard in history? The oldest bastard? Like, I'm assuming they mean like chronologically, like the first bastard in history. Yeah. That was asked several different times. I mean, we certainly don't know his name, right? Like, there, because here's the thing, and this is, because I've talked a lot, you know, about like, something that gets that anarchists bring up quite frequently, which is how you had a lot of,

in prehistory among these hunter-gatherer tribes, a lot of like extremely egalitarian communities, right, particularly compared to like a lot of the settled cultures that followed them, right, where there were significantly more equality between men and women. There were significantly flatter hierarchies, you know, a lot less power being invested in single individuals. And I talked about, in the manifesto episodes, about like the, that ikong ritual, like the shaming of the meat to, like, try and stop young men who are hunters from getting too big and ego because they think that hunting is all that matters, because it's like the cool, sexy job to have, right? And if you're focusing on that, you're ignoring how, well, most of our

calories come from people like gathering nuts. And a lot of that work gets done by women. And also people need clothes, people need tools, all of these things that are just as important. is going out and killing a deer. And in fact, necessary precursors that are a lot less sexy. So if you let, like, the young hunter boys get, you know, a fucking ego about them because, like, well, I'm the one who brought home the meat, then you're ignoring everyone else's contributions. And that makes your whole community weaker, right? And it creates the opportunity, at least, that one of those young men's going to lose their shit and bring terrible, terrible suffering onto the rest of the community, right? But I think when we talk about that, we talk about all of the, of these different sort of like rituals and like ceremonies and rules that different like societies adopted to deal with the problem of power

to ensure that they had flatter hierarchies, right? There's a tendency then to kind of forget something which is that those were not part of those societies because they were more enlightened than modern people or at least than the people that followed them.

It was not like, oh, we used to understand how to be good as a society, right? Or as human beings. Like, we used to have better cultures. We used to be more ethical. We used to treat each other better. And we stopped. I think it's more accurate to say, like, well, all of those different, like, rules and, and, and practices are evidence of the fact that there's always been a problem with power in human cultures. And that individual people taking too much power for themselves has always been a danger. And our ancestors recognize that and have throughout the entire history of human events. And some of cultures developed methods of dealing with it.

But ultimately, we have to assume all of those methods hit points of failure, right? Because those cultures didn't last, right? And they didn't beat out, in a lot of cases, the more stratified and hierarchical cultures that followed them. And so, well, I think it's really valuable to look at. Here are solutions, different cultures have proposed the problem of power. the fact that those, they had to come up with so many different solutions is evidence of the fact that that problem is kind of universal, right? And that hints at a long history of bastards, of individuals, assholes and cadres of assholes that have sought in every kind of society, including ancient hunter-gatherer societies, to try and take much more than their fair share from everybody else, right?

And so there's certainly a long prehistory of nameless bastards out there. And I think it behooves us to remember that, both because I am one of those people who says we should be looking at what other older, different cultures developed as ways to deal with the problem with power without pretending that they definitely had it figured out. Because again, none of that stuff lasted forever, right? Right. Let's take another quick break. I'll be back with a couple more questions.

You want to know what my evenings actually look like? Homework questions. Someone needs a permission slip signed. The dog's begging for a walk. Someone's yelling for a snack. And somewhere in the middle of all that, I'm supposed to figure out dinner? That's why HelloFresh has been a lifesaver.

Fresh ingredients show up at my door, locally sourced when possible, simple step-by-step recipes that actually make sense. And no matter how chaotic the rest of my night gets, dinner is the one thing I don't have to stress about. I'm just cooking a delicious meal my family. will actually eat and it takes around 30 minutes. And honestly, the real value is knowing that even on the messiest nights, dinner's handled.

That's one less thing pulling at me. And that matters. Take some stress out of your evenings right now. Get 50% off your first box plus free sides for life. That's right. Free sides for life. Go to hellofresh.c.c8 and use code rescue 50. That's hellofresh.c.c.cate code rescue 50. Hello Fresh, Canada's number one meal kit delivery service.

In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech at Lenovo.com. Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors. For the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high-quality streaming with Intel Wi-Fi 6E

and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search. Power up at Lenovo.com. A decade ago, I was on the trail of one of the country's most elusive serial killers, but it wasn't until 2023 when he was finally caught. The answers were there, hidden in plain sight. So why did it take so long to catch him? I'm Josh Zeman, and this is Monster,

hunting the Long Island serial killer, the investigation into the most notorious killer in New York, since the son of Sam, available now. Listen for free on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wali. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu. It's a new year.

And on the podcast's Health Stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and to start. doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your

body and mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Robert, do you listen to music while you write scripts for the pod? Yeah, sometimes. I used to do more. I used to listen to more music while I was writing. The last, like, year or so, I haven't done it as much.

I don't know why. Do you have, like, they always ask NBA players, like, what's the song you listen to before game time? Do you have a song you listen to before pod time? I mean, not before recording a podcast. I have, like, different bands that I listen to while I'm writing more often than others. different play one place I used to go a lot is the white light mixes if you just type like white light mixes in it's like a set of like hour hour and a half long like mixes that are meant for people to like drive to I think that was the initial idea is that these are great for like

road trips and stuff and so different DJs will do like an hour hour and a half long set that you can kind of zone out to while you're driving I found them useful over the years for writing a lot and uh yeah uh I mean, I listen to a lot of like live bluegrass shows for whatever reason. I find that helps me concentrate last night as I was working on what will be some of the first episodes of 2025. I was listening to Green Sky Bluegrass at Red Rocks. I'll listen to, you know, my ska streetlight while I'm writing. But again, a lot of the last year I haven't really been listening to much while writing.

And I don't really know why. It comes and goes and waves. Have you ever started an episode on someone commonly known to be a bastard only to realize you actually agreed with them or decided they weren't worthy of being a bastard? I mean, like the Bo Brummel episodes, I started thinking like, oh, this is the guy who like ruined men's fashion and did a lot of damage to the psyches of men for generations by locking people into these like, because that's how he gets portrayed a lot. as he invented the suit and made men's fashion boring and made men scared to express themselves through clothing. I don't actually think that's a fair summary of what Bo Bremel did in his life. It certainly was not fair to his intent. I think he was a much more sympathetic person than that. But I also thought there's a lot of bastardry in that story because, I mean, just English

culture during the period of time that he was alive. It was a fucking nightmare. So I decided like, well, this is still good for an episode. I have, there's been a couple of like, times not really worth diving into where I've heard like one story about someone that sucks, like a celebrity or whatever. And I've looked into like, okay, can I get like an episode? Or is this just somebody did something shitty once? Katie Perry. We talked about doing Katie Perry once. That happened with a Katie Perry episode where I thought this, the whole thing with her and the nuns, there's this like controversy over this house she was buying. It's not as bad as it seems.

Like, I'm not saying I go into bat for her as a good person, but I don't think she's an interesting subject for an episode, right? For sure. Yeah, it's not, it's less that like, I don't think I've ever had it like where, oh, no, this person's a hero. Although I do find some things about Beau Brummel to be kind of admirable. But it's more that like, ah, this person just is like a person who did some shitty stuff. And that's not really a bastard, right? Like, we're not, we're not declaring someone a bastard just because they, like, had flaws and did bad. We've all done bad things.

We're not all interesting to hear about for two hours. Yeah. Which bastard pastor present would be the best podcast guest to cover a different horrible person? Oh, man. I mean, honestly, I feel like if he was alive, I would make fucking $50 million doing a podcast with El Ron Hubbard, where I just explained different cults to El Ron Hubbard and he critiques them. Like he explains, oh, no, this is where you fucked up. This is where you rent a classic. It would be the least responsible podcast of all times.

I would deserve to go to prison for making that show because it would just create a new generation of hyper-competent cult leaders. But it would be super interesting. Just getting LRH on the record critiquing other cult leaders because they're all worse than him. He was the best at that. Yeah, 100%. All right, guys. We'll be back on Thursday to answer more of your questions. Any final thoughts, Robert?

You know, in the new year, fuck it. I don't know. Whatever it is to you, fuck it. Cool. Behind the Bastards is a production of Coolzone Media. For more from Coolzone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com.

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