Behind the Bastards - Part One: RAM: Nazi Fight Club

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Garrison Davis is joined by Robert Evans to discuss Rise Above Movement.FOOTNOTES: https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/rise-above-movement-ram https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/rise-above-movement https://www.propublica.org/article/white-hate-group-campaign-of-menace-rise-above-movement https://nocara.blackblogs.org/2017/07/06/diy-division/ https://www.ocweekly.com/charges-dropped-against-pepper-spraying-antifa-who-saved-oc-weekly-reporter-at-trump-rally-8161814/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpt3ImXIImY&has_verified=1 https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/documenting-hate-charlottesville/ https://www.ocweekly.com/a-rising-star-in-pro-trump-circles-isnt-who-he-says-he-is-or-is-he-8066499/ https://www.counterextremism.com/supremacy/hammerskin-nation-aka-hammerskins https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/02/the-terrifying-rise-of-alt-right-fight-clubs/ https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/05/nathan-damigo-punching-woman-berkeley-white-nationalism/ https://nocara.blackblogs.org/2018/10/17/rise-above-movement-arrests-state-repression-autonomous-anti-fascism/ https://www.propublica.org/article/four-men-arrested-over-unrest-during-2017-unite-the-right-rally https://www.propublica.org/article/all-four-white-supremacists-charged-in-charlottesville-violence-plead-guilty https://apnews.com/article/race-and-ethnicity-virginia-california-charlottesville-prisons-ff272864758dff4c10b3656d06d3a539 https://www.ocweekly.com/fbi-does-what-ocda-or-state-park-police-didnt-arrests-neo-nazis-who-assaulted-weekly-reporters/ https://www.ocweekly.com/judge-dismisses-case-against-neo-nazi-rise-above-movement-members/?sfw=pass1607637708 https://www.courthousenews.com/judge-tosses-all-charges-in-white-nationalist-rioting-plot/ https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdva/pr/three-members-california-based-white-supremacist-group-sentenced-riots-charges-related Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you, hey, let's start a coup? Back in the 1930s, a Marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the U.S. and fascism. I'm Ben Bullitt. I'm Alex French. And I'm Smedley Butler. Join us for this sordid tale of ambition, treason, and what happens when evil tycoons have too much time on their hands. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science, and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated

two days after her first birthday. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the earth for 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's really having some motherfucking trouble getting adjusted to the new year and coming back from vacation, my me. Oh, wow. That's the off balance from the get go. I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind The Bastards podcast where Sophie laughs at me for my foibles, and we talk about bad people. How many years into this are we? Yeah. All right. Now, I don't know when this episode

is going to air, maybe sometime in early February, but this is the first episode we're recording in 2021. And I have just come back as has Sophie from two weeks of vacation. And I think I speak for both of us when I say, motherfucker, it is hard to get back into the swing of things, which is why Garrison Davis is here today to read our episode to me so that I get to skip out on writing for a little while longer. And I don't know, maybe play a fucking video game or something. How are you doing, Garrison? Great. I just woke up and I have coffee in one hand and scrolling through my 20 page monster essay. On the other hand, you've truly adapted to the podcasting lifestyle, which involves waking up at 1235 frantically getting on a zoom call because Sophie

yells at you for being late and then reading 20 pages about a Nazi. Yeah. Now, here's my question. So you have the coffee. Do you have a secret weapon near your podcasting station? I have about 20 screen mistakes to my right and about, I don't know, five bladed weapons to my left. I got a Mauser. That thing is so cool. Yours is so much better. It's so cool. I just have the machete Robert sent me. Oh, I have that machete too. It's a good one. It's a good one. CRKT. Yeah. Yeah. We need to get you a get you a rifle, Garrison. But first, let's talk about the reason you might need a rifle. These Nazis you wrote about today. Yeah. Okay. So I'm getting I'm getting a little tired with Nazis, I'll be honest.

We all are. That's kind of their thing. They just they just keep being a problem. Yeah. Like this this should have ended, I don't know, in the 40s or something. But no. We have we have so many other kind of world ending problems to deal with, like climate change, hunger, evictions, pandemic, but the fascists just keep popping up and they're adding on to all of these problems. And I am really not excited about ecofascism. Yeah. That's the one I'm most not excited about. Yeah. That's the thing I see coming the most. Because we're not actually going to be explicitly talking about ecofascism today, although it will it'll probably come up towards the end because of some of the influences that

we'll be talking about. But we're going to be more focusing on good old fashioned Nazi street fighting gangs. Excellent. But we have we have a fun we have a fun twist, where it's not it's not just street fighting gangs. It's also a weird kind of active wear lifestyle brand. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. That's my shit right there. Yoga pants. Yeah. Ethnic cleansings. Yeah, let's do this. It's like this with this brand of like lifestyle fascism with also street fights. It's great. Hell yeah. Capitalize everything even genocide. Yes. So of course, this means we're talking about the not so fine folks at Ram or also known as the rise above movement. If if you've ever seen protest footage, especially like a right wing versus

Antifa footage from like pre 2020, you've you've probably seen Ram members beating up people on the ground. If you saw footage from like 2017, 2018, you probably saw Ram members beating up children. That's because that's kind of what they were doing for a lot a lot of 2017, especially on the West Coast, with people who we now know to be a part of Ram, of we're popping up all over. So today, we are going to look into the rise and the fall and the sort of kind of grift resurgence of the rise above movement. Let me get this is just another it's just a side note for me. For you know, I know, Robert, you talk about this, you talk about this a little bit too. But when we try to like cover these groups, there's always kind of a line

to want to draw between like giving them advertising and like covering them in a responsible way. So people know like people have information about them and about what threats they pose and how to oppose it. Right. So I had a bit of I had a bit of trouble on this one trying to find this line of you know, what is too much information that's like making it too advertising versus you know, I think this group is I think this group's ideology specifically could be a real problem in America. Yeah, we call it the Savitri Devi paradox of like, OK, how how deep do you get into this thing that people need to know about, but you really don't want to just be platforming? Yeah. Yeah. And so it's it's it's it's it was it was a bit tricky because I think there's gonna be a lot

of American youth that's very susceptible to what this type of what this type of group puts out. So I'm going to get into maybe a little bit more detail than I would usually want to for this group, but I'm going to try to keep it in context for, you know, informing people about what to look out for. Because I think, you know, this is this type of groups never actually gotten a very good stronghold in America. And I think they very well could because of the weird kind of macho kind of masculine lifestyle activism with like athletics, the kind of thing that we'll be talking all about that more later. So first, first, the kind of the origins of this group, what what we know as the rise above movement, which I'll just be calling Ram from now on, first first popped

onto the scene shortly after Donald Trump's election alongside a handful of other like alt right groups. So like late late 2016 is when they first first formed kind of alongside Richard Spencer and the traditionalist worker party and like those other first wave groups. Yeah. They initially so to tell you kind of this to get a little peek about what these people actually believe, they initially refer to themselves as the DIY division. So so division always trying to hack into that 2012 relevant stream. Yeah. Yeah. But also like division obviously being referenced. So but they quickly changed their name realizing this was probably a terrible name. So in early in spring of 2017, they quickly changed their branding to Ram or rise above

movement. Yeah. They had about a few dozen members who lived mostly around Southern California. The most efficient way to describe them is basically a white supremacist street gang that exists to get into fiscal content, fiscal combat with all of their ideological enemies. So that's really anyone that isn't them or anyone they see as Antifa. But it was it was very explicitly to get into fights with people. This was like their main their this was their main focus. Ram has two people usually credited as leaders or co co founders, Benjamin Daley and Robert Rondo. The inspirations for the group is a mix of kind of Nazi skinheads like the hammer skins and European Eastern European street fighting white identity movements, which we'll

get into more in the next episode a lot. But I kind of I'm going to be kind of calling that lifestyle brand fascism because of the kind of weird the weird white identity mixed in with like this like selling athletics equipment and stuff. It's also a real good example of one of the things Umberto Echo talked about in Ur fascism, his essay trying to kind of explain what fascism is syncretism, right? Like fascism in in the United States has particularly spread in like by kind of co-opting aspects of consumerist culture. And like like that's why you'll see a lot of these like lifestyle brands that focus on like beards and tactical gear and like coffee and shit like that. Yeah, it's all part of this. It's an aesthetic as much as it is an ideology. Yes. And

they are very into aesthetics. Yeah, they are a very aesthetically focused. This was you know, one of their actually Rondo will talk about this later. Well, actually, he'll bring up this kind of topic when he gives advice for how to start these groups. And it's not like the OG nuts ies weren't snappy dressers, you know, always been a big part of fascism. It's always been a giant part. Yeah. So the group is if you look at like if you look back in 2017, the group is kind of notable for where it falls in the conservative to alt right to neo-nazi spectrum. Online, they were much more open about their white supremacist views than say the proud boys. But they weren't quite at like Adam Waffen levels. They're kind of this little in between between being like super

openly Nazi all the time. But also they're beyond just doing dog whistles. Like, you know, like they would they would post Hitler memes on social media. And they would like share daily storm articles. But when they're in like in the streets, they fell back and hid behind the anti immigrant pro free speech pro traditional masculinity thing, while also using a myriad of anti Semitic dog whistles. In an interview, I think Rondo said that someone asked him about quote, the 14 words. And Rondo's like, Oh, haha. Well, I'll say I'm a fan of the 14 words. It's like he's like, so they they were they were more open online in the streets. Yeah, we must secure a future for it. It's a thing about how like we have to make the world safe for white children.

It's a phrase that's 14 words. That's a it's just it's kind of a just a it's like a it's like it's almost almost like a code that people back and forth to signal their ideology. Yeah, we've gone into detail with that about it in the war on everyone and the Rockwell episodes and a few other places. Yeah, continue. Yeah, so they're a little bit more dog whistley in the streets, more open online. So there it's kind of they fall into this weird kind of in between. I mean, the Proud Boys are more open now than what they were in 2017. But even still, you know, they have it's it's it's a little different because like rammed wouldn't allow people of color inside inside Ram, whereas the Proud Boys do for, you know, whatever propaganda reasons. Here's here's how

Ram described their group on an Instagram post from 2017 in in June, quote, we want to rise above all of today's destructive culture and see the rebirth of our people, strong and mental and physical capabilities as our forefathers were in a time when you can be harmed for your political beliefs or shamed for your heritage. We are here to defend our identity and shared goals. So like, that's the kind of that's the kind of propaganda they put out in that kind of like the phrasing that they use. There's this there's a little bit of identity, Europa kind of stuff, and this this group ties into identity Europa a little bit later on. But they're they're they're they're more more more openly white supremacists than than than the Proud Boys at this point,

definitely. North California anti racist action, which is like an anti fascist information collective, they put together a really good piece on the early days of Ram back in July of 2017, way way before the mainstream media started paying attention in the wake of the violence at Charlottesville. The anti racist act, the anti racist action article describes Ram like this. Note, they use some loaded terms here that we'll try to kind of define later. But here's how anti racist action describes Rams as you know, as a as an organization rise above movement is a loose collective of violent neo-nazis and fascists from Southern California. That's org that organizes and trains primarily to engage in fighting and violence at political rallies. They've been a

central participant in the recent wave of far right protest movements in California during the first half of 2017, which have attempted to mobilize a broad range of right wing constituents under the banner of protecting so called free speech, yielding unyielding support for Trump and apathy towards Muslims, immigrants and other oppressed groups. So, you know, when like Berkeley was happening, and all these other things, you know, this group was was right there in California, trying to capitalize on the new popularity that this kind of, you know, quote, activism was doing with these, you know, lots of different right wing kind of rallies at this time. Back, back, back to the anti racist action kind of definition.

The group's ideology appears to be a mishmash, mostly equal parts of identity, Europa's flaccid, identitarian discourse inspired itself by fascist organizations, like Generation Identity from France, and the fetishization of masculinity, physical fitness and violence mixed in with shallow anti corporate anti consumers themes like in the film Fight Club, propaganda by the overwhelmingly, but propaganda by the group overwhelmingly contains the usual fascistic themes of emasculated young men, we needing to reclaim their identities through learning to fight and engaging in purifying a purifying violence. So very they basically are just a Nazi Fight Club. One of the things that's really interesting about

not just Ram, but about kind of the way in which American fascism, you know, starting like not starting in 2016, but ramping up in 2016 and up through the Trump years, is it kind of recreated the process that we saw happen in the early chunk of the 20th century? Like in Ram is specifically that we talked about Gabriel Benanzio in an earlier episode like that. He's all about the aesthetics. He's about manliness. He's about like, like, like the purifying nature of violence, the sacredness of action for action's sake. Like they were at that stage of it. And obviously, like the kind of mainstream of American fascism has moved on and gotten much larger and more dangerous. But it's interesting to me that the same pattern has kind of repeated itself here.

Yeah. And it was this was this was all very intentional. Like, if you look at like the anti racist action kind of brief definition or not not a brief definition, and then compare that to like, so this was a Ram. I'm going to Ram post from a gap circa December 2017. Robert, do you want to explain what gab is to the listeners that have a better life than we do? Yeah, gab was the first Twitter for Nazis before parlor was popular as Twitter for Nazis. And gab largely became defunct after someone who had repeatedly talked about killing Jewish people on gab shot 11 Jewish people to death at the Tree of Life synagogue. Yeah. So here's here's a post from Ram from from from gab, kind of echoing some sentiments that the anti racist anti racist

action article kind of laid out. The rise above movement is the premier MMA fight club of the alt right representing the United States. Their dedication is to promote an active lifestyle and common values among young people and a future for European people. This is achieved through training, creative thinking and activism. The main task of Ram is to revive the spirit of a warrior and see the rebirth of the values of the Western civilization's forefathers. The spirit of the warrior. Yeah, the warrior spirit's going to be a big reoccurring theme here. I was I've been familiar with the warrior spirit kind of concept for a while because actually that there's there's a sector of the parkour community that talks about that. So like I've

been and I was always weary of that even before I really knew what fascism was. I know it just felt weird to me and felt a little problematic. Yeah, for sure. But we'll actually we'll be talking about warrior spirit later on, probably more in in part two, because there's a whole bunch of fascist writing about the warrior spirit or the warrior lifestyle, warrior mentality or whatever. Of course, this also ties into police training, which I'm sure is just a coincidence. I'm sure there's no no correlation. I'm sure there's no correlation between the aesthetics, the aesthetics of violence and the warrior culture that Ram appropriated and capitalized on and the aesthetics of violence and warrior culture that is hugely popular among law enforcement and law enforcement

trainers like Grossman. I'm sure there's there's absolutely no comparisons between any any of those things. It is fun, though, because Ram does hate law enforcement, which is going to be very funny later. Well, yeah, yeah. And that's like you've got the two chunks of the right that are currently like the there's like the hates cops because I'm an actual Nazi chunk of the right. And then there's the back of the blue chunk of the right. And at the moment in 2021, we seem to be watching the hates cops chunk of the right eating the back of the blue type, which is very funny, which is very funny. Anyway, yeah, we will talk about it. I don't hate it. Yeah. No, I'm fine. I was just watching from the sidelines. Anyway, so in late 2017, in late 2017,

ProPublica interviewed a quote leader of Ram. So this is probably either Ben Daly or Robert Rondo, but it doesn't identify who. And here's what the article says on the actual origin of the group. Quote, Ram, the leader said, came together organically. It started when he encountered a few other guys with similar political beliefs, including two active duty U.S. Marines, while exercising at different gyms in Southern California. They all liked Trump, but didn't think his agenda went far enough. The men began hanging out. Their numbers grew. Many came from rough backgrounds. They'd been strung out on drugs, were spent time behind bars, and currently labored at tough blue collar jobs. Soon, they had a name and a mission they would physically

take on the foes of the far right. So that's that's that's how their kind of origin is described in that article based on the interview they did. Just some dudes hanging out in gyms, talking about politics and realizing that they're all kind of Nazis, which they were. There's a lot of actually ties. There's lots of ties to the to the actual hammer skins, which we'll talk more about later, which again, are like one of the first big Nazi skinhead gangs. Yeah. And we're talking like 90s, early 2000s. Actually, the first named U.S. Antifa group, Rosede Antifa, formed to oppose a hammer skin rally in I think 2006 in Portland. Yeah, we hammer skins will will come back here very soon. Ram's combination of influences

makes it pretty makes it a pretty unique group inside the states. And one I think that young men can be especially susceptible to under the right conditions. In their prime, Ram just utilized the same kind of meme centric social media outreach common among the alt right, the joke filled posts about right identity, victimhood and heritage, while also being very lifestyle focused emphasizing the importance of physical fitness, masculine athleticism and street combat training, drawing from skinheads, in particular, the hammer skin nation who who also did combat training. And actually, they did combat training alongside Ram. And Ram and hammer skins shared a few members. I know one one thing Wunder talks about when like he's like now when he's talking about, you

know, advice for how to start groups and why he started this group is like he was upset that the alt right fell into a few kind of factions and feel like he felt like his faction wasn't really represented. There was like the whole like, there was a whole like, you know, the Richard Spencer kind of smart intellectual people in suits doing debates type thing. And there was like the the very Mimi right. And then there was the very kind of LARP II right where, you know, dress up in in like tactical gear and go stand in front of a building. And Rondo thought all these were stupid. He's like, he's like, kid, kids don't usually dress up in suits and do debates. It's not really what that's not really what a lot of young kids do. But they do watch UFC. So this is this is this

is what his kind of big thing was was like, if I can get the kids that watch UFC, like if I get like the young teens that do that, I think that's going to be more of a breeding ground than like the Richard Spencer dressing up in suits trying to look all like cool. I mean, fucking Joe Rogan proves them right in that that's not a dumb tactic. No, it's not, which is why I want to talk about this and we need to like watch out for this in the next few years, because he is right about that. I mean, God, that's a bummer. I would dress up in suits and do debates, but I'm I'm me. Yeah, you wear a bow tie. Yeah. So it's it's I'm a I'm a little different there. A very bow tie. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that's where it comes from. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Anyway, let's see. Oh, yeah. In in a in a YouTube video, which we'll talk more about his Rondo's YouTube videos later. But here's here. This is a this is a quote from one of his YouTube videos. I can't remember what chapter it is in mind cons. But the one that he says that we need we need more people to take a boxing than we need intellectuals. Yeah. So I mean, and kind of perfectly embodying that by saying, I don't remember where in mind comp it was. But somewhere somewhere there's a quote. Apparently, when Rondo was in jail, he was like allowed a copy of mind comp. That seems like a bad idea. Not not a good not a good idea. But people can't have dice to play Dungeons and Dragons. That's satanic, Robert. They might use it to gamble. Oh, and that, yeah.

So one one key element that separates Ram from skinheads is their aesthetic. Instead of shaved heads, bomber jackets and boots, they have, you know, tapered, fascia haircuts that became common among 2017, half skull masks popularized by popularized by Adam Waffen. And as California anti racist action perfectly puts it, quote, Richard Spencer in active wear kind of look, which does does really kind of describe what these guys look like. I just hate that that's a sentence somebody wrote. Yeah. And it's it's frustrating how accurate it is. Yeah. The active wear thing will be circling back to multiple times as seemingly another big influence for the group is the Russian white supremacist mixed martial arts clothing company called White Rex,

which we'll we'll talk about a few more times later on the note of one other note on the lifestyle brand element from the anti racist action article, quote, the group's propaganda also emphasizes in anti drug or straight edge message, which is again, a common theme among certain segments of the neo Nazis who view substances, excluding alcohol apparently, as part of the global Jewish conspiracy to weaken the white race. Despite this, many members use a wide range of substances and have histories of being arrested for like drunken fighting and possession in the past. Just a ton of them. Yeah. Yeah. One Ram member, Tyler Lobb, has a long history of arrests for driving under the influence,

drunken fighting, carrying a switchblade and robbery. And he also he actually managed to get himself shot during a drunken fight in like 2014. See, these are the kind of people who need to hear the gospel of my favorite drink, the actual the lifestyle beverage that I pushed for behind the bastards, a 2020 highball, which I'm now rolling over into a 2021 highball, which my new year's recipe for this is you get a pint glass, you fill that pint glass up 80% of the way with 409. And then you put in just just a dash of medical bleach. And you got to make sure it's medical bleach, steal it from a hospital, break into a hospital with a gun, steal some medical bleach and a dollop of that on top of the 409. And then just a

goche of lemon. Don't do any of that. I think I think it'll cure the Nazi problem. It'll deal. Yeah, exactly. If we get the Nazis drinking 2021 highballs, we'll have less of a problem with them. Robbery. Because of its help. Can we make the part where people have to go guns blazing into a hospital? No, no, you don't have to go guns ideally. That's the most American thing you can do, Sophie. If you carry out an armed robbery in a hospital, they'll probably let you take the bleach. Okay, this is not a Batman movie. This is behind the bastards and it's time for an ad break. Don't do any of that shit. God. Speaking of crimes, here's the products and services that support this podcast. During the summer of 2020, some Americans suspected that the FBI

had secretly infiltrated the racial justice demonstrations. And you know what? They were right. I'm Trevor Aronson, and I'm hosting a new podcast series, Alphabet Boys. As the FBI sometimes, you got to grab the little guy to go after the big guy. Each season will take you inside an undercover investigation. In the first season of Alphabet Boys, we're revealing how the FBI spied on protesters in Denver. At the center of this story is a raspy voiced cigar smoking man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse were like a lot of guns. He's a shark and not in the good badass way. He's a nasty shark. He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time,

and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC. What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there, as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991, and that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's

last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space, 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI.

How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus? It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back. Please continue, Garrison. Yay. No drugs for these Nazis. So they say. Except for drinking and driving. Except for a lot of alcohol. But I mean, like Rondo does truly believe in this trade edge thing, like in terms of like drugs and stuff. They really are anti-drug. So was Hitler except for all the methamphetamine? Yeah, and also like Tyler Lobb, the guy that got into a who got shot during a drug fight, was in like a Xanax club when that happened. So like, come on, like, come on, come on, buddy.

Like, hey, man, medicinal drugs don't count, bro. Yeah. But like, they actually are serious about the whole strange, strange thing in terms of like in terms of propaganda, at least. Yeah. Yeah. And it's definitely like that's a pretty common stream among Nazis. Like, you have to keep yourself pure and healthy for the race. Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of propaganda, Ram themselves relied heavily on social media propaganda for recruiting. They would often produce videos of them doing combat training or working out. Per the SPLC, Southern Poverty Law Center, their promotional media is, quote, targeted towards men who find the idea of a real-world fight club appealing. White supremacy supplies justification for violence. And ultimately,

this group has been about street fighting, which I don't fully agree with the last part there. I spent way, way too much time reading about Ram and watching their videos this past like two weeks. And they absolutely care about white supremacy, maybe above all else. But I can see truth, elements of truth in this sentiment. And we'll come back to this topic later when we talk about Ram's co-founder Robert Rundermore, because I think there is definitely a little bit of that violence above everything in him. But I mean, it is very, you know, there is a lot of white supremacy. It's not just finding a justification for violence. It is also they just really care about white supremacy. Back to social media propaganda. From the Ram account, they would

post videos, pictures, and memes, posting over the people they beat up, usually showcasing footage or photos of the assaults. And of course, this wasn't a great idea. I mean, it was good for recruiting, but this would absolutely contribute to their downfall. Because, you know, they're just bragging about all the crimes they're doing in very explicit detail. So the ironic thing is that they stress that people quote, get offline and get active, and to quit nonstop meming, despite their incriminating nonstop meming about the people that they've beat up, and they and they're nonstop producing a propaganda videos, which I mean, I get, yeah, yeah, I know you need to recruit and stuff. But you know, when you have such a such a such a such a such a focus on like the getting

offline type of thing, despite their heavily mostly online presence to for recruiting of another gab gap post from January 2018, says a new year and a new direction for the alt right time to leave behind the online memes and countless hours shitposting and act like we really do want a world that exists beyond discords and edgy websites, train organize, get active, repeat. So I mean, I get it, right? They want to recruit new members and to get away from the alt rights kind of keyboard warrior gamer gate kind of history. They're not the ones who like being associated with fucking Pepe's and shit. No, they find it very annoying. And they find a lot of people spend that too much time doing that instead of beating up children in the streets,

or killing Jewish people or whatever. So be like this type of propaganda is the easiest way to encourage and influence people to take real world action. But I still appreciate the irony and the complete lack of security culture that they have in terms of nonstop posting about people they've beat up like they would constantly make memes about the people that they've like beat up in the streets, like nonstop. It was it's amazing. And it's I mean, part of that is like it's silly that they did that, but it's not as unwise as I guess it might seem. Because again, the cops never went after those people for a long time. A long time. Yeah. It's I mean, the cops never did. They got with the FBI later. But well, yes, yes, we'll talk

about why. But yeah, it's that there's a reason in general why the right is so bad at security culture. And it's because the cops tend to like them. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah. So in the vein of like moving beyond online posting and into real real world action, it's time to discuss what Ram actually did at rallies and who these and who these people are. So Ram's public debut was in March 2017 at a MAGA rally in Huntington Beach, California. At this point, there were probably about a dozen people and they were still calling themselves the DIY division. They held a massive banner that read Defend America. Holding above it. There was a sign that that read Dag-Goyim-No, which is a variance of that phrase or a popular

anti anti-Semitic phrase among the right. I'm not going to explain what it means, but believe you me, it's very anti-Semitic. So at the Huntington Beach rally, Ram members were the first ones to start fights with anti-fascists that soon turned into a very messy brawl. Fights initially started when a Ram member later identified as Tyler Lobb, the same guy who got into a drunken street fight and got shot at a Xanax club. Same guy. He started stuff by attacking a POC journalist and punched them repeatedly in the face. Then Ram co-founder Robert Rondo, who also leads all their fight training. He is predominantly seen in pictures unmasked and in videos pummeling a black block protester on the ground with his fists and elbows. Footage

of the attack becomes a meme for the alt-right and is used heavily in recruitment propaganda. At this time, we have terrible nicknames being given to a whole bunch of right-wing kind of street people. So he got nicknamed a based elbow man, which is very stupid. But again, this is used for memeing and propaganda and recruiting. Despite clear evidence. Yeah, it's not fun. I will probably mention this. He got his nickname alongside such luminaries as Baced Stickman. Don't worry, Robert. We're talking about Baced Stickman. Oh, good. I love Kyle Chapman. It's great that the names, the nicknames of all of these chuds who are only noteworthy for hitting people in the face and not getting arrested will be stuck in my head until the end of my days.

Yet I don't know the name of, I don't know, like the sniper who tried to kill me. It's very, very fun. I love America. Despite clear evidence of the assault, please do not arrest Rondo, nor would he ever face city or state charges. No, I wouldy. Yeah. Alternatively, police were quick to arrest three anti-fascists in Huntington Beach who defended themselves, P.C. journalists and others from Rams Attacks. The three anti-fascists were charged with, quote, felony illegal use of pepper spray. Yeah, that'll really fuck you up, that pepper spray. They charged with a felony for using pepper spray for defending themselves against Nazis. Thankfully, yeah. Thankfully, three months later, the DA dropped the charges because they were

stupid. That's that's good. Yeah, because they were because it was lunacy. Yeah. But the police decided to arrest three anti-fascists that day and let all the Nazis go and charge them. Fuck their lives up with, I mean, like if it doesn't fuck you up forever if it gets dropped, but it fucks you up while those charges are on you. Yeah, I mean, I just applied for citizenship. And if I was ever charged with something that was dropped, I would have to put that on my application. I was charged with felony right at this one point. Traders later dropped, but I still have to say that that you have to put that in a lot of stuff. It's terrible. That's why I'm glad you're much faster than the cops. And I'm glad that I got my stuff. Paper all papers all submitted now,

which is which is good. Anyway, felony illegally used to pepper spray, which is maybe one of the funniest felonies that I've ever heard. But I've lost count of the number of people who have pepper sprayed me at rallies. So many August 22nd alone. There's so much mace in the air. Yeah, it was also I got I got maced by DHS like four nights ago. They had they had maced cannons. Yeah, I saw those the super soakers. Yeah, they had made super soakers. I would constitute that a felony illegal use of pepper spray. But whatever. Anyway, see, it's been months since I've been maced by DHS. Now you've got me jealous. That was great. Actually, the tear gas was a little pleasant. It was a little nostalgic.

Because it was because it was only a little bit. And it was it was it was almost fun. Just just a whiff. So let's flash flash forward to April 15th, like a month after this mega rally in Huntington Beach. But April 15th, Berkeley, California. This is when Ram first came under the eyes of anti fascist researchers. This was the second big Berkeley rally with upwards of 1000 people. This is when Ram starts making connections with other neo-nazi and alt-right groups. Ram themselves attended the rally with the neo-nazi, quote, race realist group identity Europa. And they they actually like carpooled with its leader and a leader who is a former Marine, Nathan Domingo, which side note here. I always thought Domingo was like in his 40s or 50s because

he looks very old. But he's like 34. It's shocking. I was so confused. It's all the cocaine, which they don't talk about because they're a little too smart to usually talk about it. But all of these guys are doing a fuckload of blow, especially the proud boys, like it ages these motherfuckers. It's amazing. He was born in 1986, which he looks 50 years old. Yeah, he's two years older than me. Shocking. I was I was very surprised. Anyway, Ram carpooled with this asshole, who's also who's also a convicted felon for doing a racist armed robbery of a Middle Eastern cab driver and is also a former Marine. Domingo got national attention on April 15th after footage went viral of him sucker punching a 95 pound woman. This not only turns Domingo into an alt-right meme

slash hero, it gave identity Europa a lot of free press and led to a harassment campaign against the victim. Mother Jones reports, quote, after the punching video went viral, the alt-right unleashed a doxin campaign against the victim and her family, publishing their home address, phone numbers, a home address and phone numbers online. She received rape threats and other abusive messages and images of pornography work that she'd done were turned into memes and posted on her grandmother's Facebook page. So that's not great that they assaulted someone and then harassed them online for a long time afterwards. Yeah, but in said viral footage right behind Domingo, you can see a young man in a gray shirt, half skull mask, shaved sides and black goggles with orange lenses.

This is Robert Bowman, a Ram member wearing what would become the Ram uniform, gray active wear, skull mask, goggles and that Richard Spencer haircut. Members would also usually have their hands taped up MMA style. Earlier that day, Ram co-founder Robert Rondo attacked anti-fascist demonstrators after they insulted him about skipping leg days at the gym. Okay, well, he's right on that. You never insult a man's quads. Some teenagers insulted him about his leg, about him not doing leg days and then also apparently they insulted him for having a presumably small penis. Triggered by the jokes, Rondo crossed over police barricades and started attacking a random people. I bet he suffered serious legal

consequences for breaking across the police barricade to assault people. Rondo was briefly arrested and then let go the same day, released without charges. Oh, cool. Why would you charge with anything? Yeah, sure. No, but like he went over a police barricade to beat up teenagers after they insulted his legs. I don't know how to respond to this without being petty. I love how often police have like shoved and threatened us with arrest for standing in a street instead of a sidewalk when the street was closed to traffic. But he gets to charge across a police barricade and punch people. It's fucking rules. I love America. At the anti-fascist action article points out, quote, Rondo's actions clearly show a desire to not only escalate the situation

to violence, but also a desire to physically provoke and attack anti-fascists at all costs. Nathan Domingo of Identity Aropo was also never arrested or charged for his assaulting of a very small woman, despite bragging about it on like a mainstream news outlets. Like he bragged about his assault and nothing ever happened to him because, again, why? Later that day, other RAM members, including Tim Gillan, Robert Bellman, Spencer Curry and co-founder Benjamin Daley, can be seen in their RAM uniform assaulting various anti-fascists and then bragging about it on social media while posting pictures of the attacks. What made RAM different in these street brawls was their ability to attack as a unit because they all trained together on a weekly basis. They actually

did physical combat training together. So they attacked not as just individuals, but they attacked as a group. They're described by ProPublica as, quote, fighting as a pack. While attacking someone, RAM member Robert Bellman got pepper sprayed in the face with his goggles down, and then he was ushered to safety by Joey Gibson about Patriot Prayer. It was a fun little tie-in for people in the Pacific Northwest. So Joey Gibson saved one of the RAM people after getting pepper sprayed, even though he had goggles. They just weren't on, I guess. I don't know. But yeah, this whole fighting as a pack thing, which made them a little bit more formidable in combat versus the Proud Boys, which generally do not attack as a group and they mainly attack

as individuals. So that's what made them a little bit more effective in combat. We still have a few more Nazi crossovers to get to here. At the Berkeley Rally, RAM also teamed up with a white nationalist videographer and live streamer Vincent James Fox. Vincent would stream the rallies via YouTube and his website. Vincent previously was friendly with RAM at the Huntington Beach Rally. He's the one that dubbed Rondo as base double man. Great. Great. Vincent James would not only happily cover these far-right attacks, he would also like incite them. He can be heard yelling, get the fucking cock! As five RAM members jump a Black Black protestor and begin beating on them. Basically, the guy with the video camera would be behind

RAM people. He would point out different people to attack and then RAM would go attack that person and then they would go back and attack someone else. After rallies, Vincent would make propaganda videos for RAM and he hands them all of his footage for RAM to make their own videos and memes and stuff. They had this kind of relationship circle here for they would protect him at a rally and he would give them footage to do propaganda stuff with. Awesome. Yeah. Not great. Again, none of these people really got in trouble for this with the city police or state police at all and they would only get in trouble like many years later after dozens of articles are posted about them beating up random people and even still they're charged as a miniscule compared

to what anti-fascists get. The thing that should be clear to everyone about the Nazis is that this current swarm of Nazis that are about to descend on will have descended on DC for the third time by the time this episode airs. Is that like if one of two things that happened, either one, the first time they beat up a bunch of people, several of them had received serious felony charges and had been prosecuted or if the first time they'd come out to beat up a bunch of people, they had been surrounded by a swarm of counter demonstrators and pummeled. They would not have kept coming out and none of this would still be a problem. It would have looked like shit for them and they wouldn't have kept going out into the street because it wouldn't have been.

The fact that they were able to continue doing this and have positive experiences, getting to beat people up, getting it on video, getting their fun nicknames, getting shit go viral and they didn't suffer consequences from law enforcement and they just weren't enough people at a lot of these rallies to really beat them into the fucking ground or if there were, the cops stopped them from doing it. That's why they're still here. That's why this is still a problem. Very frustrating. Yeah, still a problem. It's going to be for at least a while still. Eagle-eyed anti-fascists noticed Ramco founder Ben Daly doing a particular salute at the Berkeley rally. A closed fist Roman salute that moves into an X with both arms and both fists clenched,

which is a big Roman history nerd. Yeah, I'm sure. So I know I've mentioned the Hammerskins a few times already. I guess we've already kind of talked about them a little bit, but they're considered to be the largest or most widespread Nazi skinhood organization. They have numerous ties to brutal white supremacists assault, beatings and murders. In 2012, a quote, fully patched Hammerskin member, an army veteran. If you see a pattern here, I keep mentioning all a lot of these people are in the Marines or in the army because this is a pattern here. But fully patched Hammerskin member, an army veteran Wade Michael Page, massacred six people inside a Sikh temple in Wisconsin. In 2012, six people died in this attack. There's been

about probably like a dozen other Hammerskin murders in the past few decades across the globe. In 2017, Ben Daly and Ram started actively recruiting Hammerskin members. Skyler Seigberg, whatever a stupid name, Matthew Brands-Tletter, also a dumb name, and Spencer Curry. Anyway, there's three noted Hammerskins that anti-fascists have like repeatedly identified, joined Ram until in 2017. With Skyler and Spencer being part of a Hammerskin band, because again, these are the type of Nazis that have like quote, quote, quote, unquote, punk bands, which, you know, many punk will say is actually, you know, it's not punk, it's anti-punk. Yeah, you kind of can't be punk and also in favor of the state using massive force

to institute genocide. That's not super punk. Not really punk. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so like these people were in like, you know, skinhead bands and a Matt Bronze-Tetter or whatever his stupid name is. And the accomplice beat a Jewish man unconscious and robbed him in Orange County Park back in 2011, which was like a noted like Hammerskin attack. So like the same guy now active in Ram. And all these guys are like in their 20s now, right? So like these, this is, they're not like old guys. They're like, they were doing this as teens and they're doing, you know, and they were doing stuff like Ram in their 20s. They're still, they're still in their 20s. Brands-Tetter or whatever his name is, was convicted of aggravated assault and with a hate crime enhancement and sent to

prison for 20 months for beating this Jewish man unconscious back, again, back in like 2011. The anti-racist action article notes, quote, many of these individuals such as Schuyler also connected with neo-nazi members of groups such as the Golden State skinheads, whom stabbed six anti-fascists and anti-racist protesters in Sacramento in June of like 2016 under the banner of the traditional workers party or traditionalist workers party. So it's clear that, yeah, it's clear, it's clear that DIY division as it's known back then is a political collective working hard to bridge the gap between the more internet-based alt-right brand of white nationalism just targeted to appeal to a younger more generally educated upper class white man and the more traditional boots on the ground

and street violence tactics characterized by neo-nazi skinhead politics. So again, they're trying to kind of bridge this gap between kind of getting into the street and doing fighting while also still recruiting young people online, which is why I am particularly concerned with what this, you know, what a similar organization could do in the next few years. So after this big rally in Berkeley, Ram also connected with a far right figure, Kyle Chapman, who I don't know. I don't know if he deserves his own bastard's episode because he's just incredibly stupid, but this is you know, he just like he punches people a lot. Yeah, this is a bunch of flashy stuff. He was part of the Proud Boys for a little bit. He started the fraternal order of the alt knights

again, super nerd like like Ram actually hates all these people like like Runder will talk about this like he hates nerds, right? So it's very fun to watch his videos because like he'll be insulting all these like idiots who are like larping. It's very funny. But yeah, he's this Kyle did this fraternal order of the alt knights. He started out resist Marxism, which turned into super happy fun America, which did that Boston straight pride parade. All the same guy who basically was behind all these things is very, very funny. Also very dangerous. And also I think more recently a Proud Boys stuff, but that's a known at the moment. Yeah, Kyle Chapman, all this stuff. He got connected with Ram after the Berkeley rally. And the next few months, Ram also connected

with various other people affiliated with the Proud Boys, including Juan Cavadide, aka Johnny Benitz and quote Luke based Skywalker Dennis, which I find offensive. Yes. As as a Skywalker fan, I I don't appreciate that. But these are all Proud Boys noted for beating up people in streets during the same time. So they all they all got acquainted. In the spring and summer of 2017, Ram and the Proud Boys would put on little like monthly get togethers and on the on different like California beaches. One of these meetups was named America first, remembering the victims of illegals and refugees. So like they would just do like basically monthly beach parties with Proud Boys and Ram Beach, first of all, they all live at the beach. Like,

like a beachside house. I mean, I don't appreciate that. There's a conversation to be said about some of the intersections of fascism and surfer culture. Like it is. It is a thing that's been written about. Yeah. That that math does add up. But I don't appreciate it. Very frustrating. Very frustrating. Very frustrating. Which is great, because when we had a not super Nazi, but like a noted alt-right figure from Portland moved to a beach town like last year. And then anti-fascists got her fired from her job at the beach. Yeah, and safe. She was like working in a safeway bakery. She got fired. She got she got fired because she took a leave of absence because they were giving any worker who was scared of the coronavirus

a leave of absence. And she took a leave of absence claiming she was scared of the virus and then immediately organized an anti-mask rally. Yeah. In the same. Yeah, it's it's great. It's good. Yeah. You know what else is great and good and hopefully helps keep us employed, Robert? 2021 highball. No. Shot of 409 in hospital bleach with a sprig of lemon. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Now, you want to drink it real fast. You can get a second one in you as quick as possible. It's the doubling up that really makes it work. I'll take I'll take some notes. Garrison. No. Oh, yeah. Garrison, you're a growing man. You know, you need a 409 cocktail. Garrison, you do not need that. You're patrolling. Finally done my coffee. And that means it's

time to listen to these maybe coffee ads from maybe a. Oh, yeah. I hope we get another black rifle coffee. I swear to God, if we get another black rifle coffee, I will jump. The only coffee company that's been repeatedly forced to disavow Kyle Rittenhouse because he likes their product and has also been attacked by its primary customers for disavowing Kyle Rittenhouse because they made their brand fascism coffee. Are you tired of masturbating with a cup of normal coffee while watching watching Hitler speeches in that case by black rifle coffee, the only coffee that makes sense to masturbate to Hitler to thank you black rifle. I resign. Here we go. During the summer of 2020, some Americans suspected that the FBI had secretly infiltrated

the racial justice demonstrations. And you know what? They were right. I'm Trevor Aronson, and I'm hosting a new podcast series, Alphabet Boys. As the FBI sometimes you gotta grab the little guy to go after the big guy. Each season will take you inside an undercover investigation. In the first season of Alphabet Boys, we're revealing how the FBI spied on protesters in Denver. At the center of this story is a raspy voiced cigar smoking man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse was like a lot of guns. He's a shark and not in the good bad ass way. It's a nasty shark. He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC. What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there, as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991 and that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on earth his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space, 313 days that changed the world. Listen to The Last Soviet on

the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI. How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus,

it's all made up? Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, that was a great coffee. Thanks, Robert, for sending me my Christmas coffee this year. Anyway, we're back from the ad break and I did not get black or full coffee because it probably seems terrible. No, we drink deathwish coffee in this house. Yeah. Who have not given us money, but who I quite like. You know what I miss? Robert is going to the beach to look at the ocean, which the Nazis got to do a lot with the with the proud boys, which is weird because, you know, Ram was very like openly Nazi at this point. And Gavin McGinnis was still trying to convince people that he that his gang wasn't racist or fascist at this point.

And, you know, McGinnis would insist neo-Nazis don't exist anymore, which is a bit it's a bit hard to parse when Ram is doing monthly beach hangouts with the proud boys. So real interesting thing there. Yeah. But an observation that the anti-racist section article makes is, quote, what's clear is that both these groups need each other. The proud boys need the numbers and muscle of the neo-Nazis where the neo-Nazis need the cover of the pro-Trump groups. I think it's a really good observation at this time in like, you know, for 2017 for how this was kind of a symbiotic relationship that they kind of both needed to survive at the time. Speaking of Nazis at the beach, back in back in Huntington Beach in May of 2017, Ram members gathered around

a beach fire at a public beach next to the ocean with a swastika, sun and red, an iron cross, and Celtic runes for scribble launches of the fire pits. Huntington Beach is so nice. This is so... And they were also flying an American, a confederate, an iron cross, and a black sun flag. Wow. Really getting the trifecta. Not trifecta. That's four. That's four. That's a quad. Garrison, I can't count that. Anyway, American, confederate, iron cross, and black sun. We're all flying. So what do... So unmasked Ram members are seeing, Tim Gellin and Ben Daly are all seeing the pictures. So what do you think these free speech crusaders are doing near a big beach fire in the middle of the day? What do you think they're up to?

I don't know. Maybe burning crosses? They're doing a book burning. Oh, a book burning. Oh, good. Okay. What book do you... Because I have the script. I am your overlord. What book do you think that... What do you think that... What do you think they're burning? Oh, geez. What book would they burn? This is a game. Oh, man. There's so many potential options. There's like five right answers. So... Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. I don't know. I really don't know. There's too many possibilities. One guess. Catcher in the rye. No. They probably like that book, actually. Robert. Yeah, they probably do. Robert. Think more fucked.

What's like something that like is really fucked to burn? What's something that 20-year-old neo-Nazis are going to burn at the beach? Oh, probably like the Torah? They got to copy the Torah in there? Maybe. But anyway, among the books being tossed in the fire were Anne Franks, the diary of a young girl. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. The novelization of Schindler's List. Yep. So the novelization of Schindler's List. Okay. All right. That's creative. The Jewish book of why, cultural pluralism, Traffin Hitler's Hell, and also they burned the 9-11 commission report.

Well, now that makes sense because like you don't have to be a Nazi to know the jet fuel can't melt steel beams. But yeah, they burned at least 20 other books, though, that they deemed culturally a Marxist or Jewish enough to be burned. So yeah, they had their selves in a little book burning in May on the beach, flying a black sun flag. Back when no one knew what a black sun flag was, I guess still a lot of people don't. Yeah. But yeah, that's what they were doing. The Christchurch shooter put on his body armor. Yeah. I mean, I'll mention this later, but Robert Rondo eventually gets a black sun elbow tattoo.

Rad. Okay. Cool guy. Cool dude. Anyway, quick, quick rundown of some of Ram's activities pre-August 2017. Well, Los Angeles, California, May 1st. Ram members attended the May Day Actions, hoping to get into fights with left-wing activists. San Bernardino, California, June 2017. Ram members participated in a, quote, anti-Sharia law protest in protesting a bill that would make, quote, protesting in support of a bill that would make, quote, practicing Sharia law illegal. It's just very, very dumb. That's not how laws work. They held signs that read rape, you geez, stay away, not welcome. Another sign that was like,

defend America, Islamists out. And that depicted a lance wielding crusaders on horseback chasing away fleeing Muslims. So that's, that's, that's in June. Great. Also, not super historically accurate, because let's just say crusader cavalry didn't have shit on Saladin. But I don't think people really care about history that much about what happened during the actual crusades. Yeah, no, not really. Towards California, July 2017, red members hung a, quote, secure borders, secure future banner over the 110 highway or freeway. I don't know how to say, I don't know how to say local, local, I know there's like certain ways to say the numbers. It's the 110. It's the 110.

Oh, I got her. Okay. 110. Yeah, great. You were, you were cool and hip, dude. I know all the California highways now, like the I-5. Oh no, Canadians aren't allowed further south than Redding. And finally, and also in July 2017, in San Monica, red members attempted to disrupt a committee for racial justice meeting. Also at the time, a lot of red members were working at a tree trimming business that was run by Benjamin Daley. So like they were all working at their gang. The only job they could get. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun looking. I mean, their business is currently shut down because Benjamin Daley is currently in prison for things he will do later. But it's fun going to, but his Yelp page is still up. So you can like read reviews of like people saying,

hey, you're a fucking Nazi. But he's like, oh, how rude. It's real, real stupid. Real dumb. Yeah. So anyway, this, this leads up to August 2017 and the Unite the Right Rally. At this point, Ram claimed to have over 50 members, although it was way more likely they had around 10 to 15 guys that were just lying about their numbers to make them seem bigger than what they actually were. But due to their social media presence, they had gained a national reputation as like an intense white supremacist street fighter group. Tim Gellin and Ben Daley are front and center in one of the most widely circulated photos of the Tiki torch rally. They're like, right there. You can see, you can see their little, little faces because they have both have,

they both have very unique heads. So yeah, they're, they're front and center on August 11th, the night before, you know, the big, the big day on August 12th, both men Ghillon and Daley had gun charges from 2014, actually. And Ghillon had been jailed for a legal possession of an unsterilized handgun and Daley was arrested and convicted of illegally carrying a concealed snub-nosed 357 Magnum revolver. So they, both these guys here apparently had gun charges. So I don't think they were carrying it this time, but a lot of people made that note. So I'm like, okay, I guess I'll put it into, sure. Yeah. And a lot of people, a lot of these guys who can't legally carry or own guns still do because again, the police very rarely punish them for breaking

the law. Yeah. So these guys were chanting, you know, you will not replace us. Jews will not replace us. Chance alongside fellow Ram member Cole White, unfortunate name for a Nazi, and hundreds of other young men. So they were, there was at least three or four people from Ram there that night chanting. Though the Ram members in Charlottesville participated in attacking the anti-racist, anti-fascist protesters at the University of Virginia campus when the hundreds of Nazis surrounded the few dozen people holding an anti-racist banner. So Ram was a part of the attack on the people in front of the statue that night. The next day, August 12th, at the main United Right event, at least four Ram members were present and can be seen attacking anti-fascist

counter protesters starting very early on in the day. When I was, I mean, I was looking through old footage for this, for writing, and I was able to actually like, I was, I was, I've been reading enough about these guys and watching enough other videos that I was like, able to like pick out people just like, just with my own eyes without having to pause or anything. I could like track certain people throughout the crowd because they were, they were very active in beating up a lot of people on August 12th. Ben Daly, Tim Gellin, Cole White, and Michael Misalus, all these guys were attacking people this day. The latter, which is also a documented attacking people back in Berkeley, that's Michael Misalus, who is also a PhD student at the UCLA and possessed government security

clearance for work on sensitive research at defense contractor Northrop Runman. So that's good. No, it's not. I don't like that. It's not, it's not, it's not ideal. At least it's, at least it's not our dear friends over at Raytheon. That would really break my heart, but Raytheon is still pure and one of the best LGBT employers in the nation because at Raytheon, we don't care what you believe or who you love, we just care that you're willing to make a missile guidance chip that we can use to detonate a school bus in Yemen filled with 33 children. That's all that matters to Raytheon, and I think that's beautiful. I think it's beautiful, Garrison. Maybe, maybe you can give in a good word for Michael Misalus.

No, no, they won't hire Nazis at Raytheon. Oh, okay. Yeah, so eventually he was fired from Northrop Runman. How the fuck am I right? What? Following reporting of him, you know, being a Nazi. But yeah, kind of concerning, he had government security clearance to work on like sensitive research. So that's not ideal. I don't like it, guys. I don't, I don't. So after Unite the Right and the murder of Heather Hire, scrutiny was finally put on these new alt-right groups. Ram Leader, interviewed by ProPublica, stated that after August, the group is, quote, trying to stay away from rallies. Because, you

know, they killed somebody and beat up, you know, dozens of other people. So for over a year after Unite the Right, the only legal trouble Ram had gotten into was when Rob Rondo was briefly detained in Berkeley, but so far they'd faced no actual consequences for their assaults, despite bragging about them all over social media. Well, that slowly started to change a little bit. Between October 2017, October 2017 and August 2018, ProPublica and PBS Frontline had began reporting on Ram and their involvement in the violent activities and violent attacks. A lot of the research done on Ram was first actually done and made public by North California anti-racist action. And they're really good article that they put out on Ram from July 2017, which I've already

quoted from a lot. And unfortunately, I mean, ProPublica and Frontline did a good job getting this reporting out into the mainstream. But unfortunately, most of their work is actually heavily plagiarized between it's plagiarized mostly from all the Ram stuff is plagiarized mostly from the anti-racist action article. And they also did stuff on Adam Often, which they plagiarized a lot of work from Jake Hannah-Hann on. And I know like a like Frontline won like Emmys for this work and stuff. I think they want a Pulitzer. Yeah, they want a Pulitzer. Jake and his partner were initially left off of the Pulitzer. Yeah, it's very frustrating. Yeah. And they stole most of this work actually. Yeah. Extremely frustrating. But it did get

the reporting into like the mainstream. So we got people upset about it. So that pressured the FBI to actually take some action. But again, they didn't really credit who did the actual work. And it's very, very, very frustrating. But we will. Yeah. That's I mean, for Ram, North California anti-racist action did amazing, amazing work identifying all of these Ram people, finding out lots of information about them. They were they were like, I mean, again, they all did this like before, before like, like before the Charlottesville rally, like they did this before it was, you know, popular to start naming these people. So great, great work there, guys. So with with mounting evidence against Ram from multiple

sources, including more and more mainstream outlets, because I mean, the Guardian and other, you know, articles from mainstream publications started, you know, referring to the Republic of stuff. So like, you know, it was, you know, it went through the cycle of Guardian, CNN, whatever. So with mounting evidence, the FBI started to pay attention on Tuesday, October 2, 2018. So this is 416 days after the Unite the Right rally, the FBI arrested four Ram members for their role in the violent August rally. So I'm way 400 days after Unite the Right, FBI arrests four people. That's Ben Daly, Tim Gellin, Cole White and Michael Mizzilis, public article, quoting another public article post the attack, quote, the four men were charged

with having traveled to Charlottesville with the aim of inciting a riot and conspiracy to incite a riot and prosecutors submitted an array of photographs and videos capturing the men pummeling and choking protesters over the two days. After after a few months, the four men eventually all pleaded guilty admitting their actions were not in self defense. And in July 2019, three of the four men who pleaded guilty to federal charges for their role in the violence were sent to prison with terms ranging from 27 months to 37 months. The fourth man, Kyle White, was let off easy for quickly cooperating with authorities and because he, quote, disavowed his hateful ideology. So he he got to avoid federal prison for disavowing his his hateful ideology. Yeah.

Only only serving seven months in like a jail after his arrest, you know, but before the trial. So yeah, I mean, I would disavow a lot if I could if it could get me out of federal prison, but whatever. But hey, three out of four Nazis ain't bad. The justice system prevails. Yay, not actually not so fast. In late October 2018, FBI brought charges against four other RAM members, including co founder Robert Rondo, Tyler Lobb, again, the the Xanax drunken fight guy, Robert Bellman and Aaron Eason. I don't know how to say his name. Who cares? But the FBI brought charges against these four guys for their involvement in the mega rally in Huntington Beach. So this was like, I don't know, 500, almost 600 days after the Huntington Beach rally. Jesus.

Great work, FBI. Real timely. But you know, the FBI is bringing charges against teenagers with umbrellas in Portland, though, at much faster rate. They're now they're bringing charges for people, you know, in August, they brought charges, you know, back in October. So it's like two months against that teenager with an umbrella. So they're really on the on the on the on the on the front line there. But it takes 600 days to get the Nazis too bright about their assaults. Anyway, better late than never. Yeah. Yeah. So for the people got brought charges against them for the for the Huntington Beach stuff, as well as the various others, you know, events around the time, Ben Daly and three of the RAM members were arrested in, you know, so like the the

the Charlottesville people were arrested in like early October. Around the same time, Robert Rondo's house in Huntington Beach got raided by the FBI, deploying flash bangs into his like bedroom. Amazing. But Rondo wasn't arrested that day. He was there, but they didn't arrest him. So they waited at his house. They're like, all right, we didn't find anything. You're free to go. Shortly after this, he attempted to flee to he attempted to flee to Ukraine, where there's like a white nationalist stronghold. But because of travel restrictions put on him by American authorities, he got flagged as a tier one operator of domestic terrorism. And so he was turned back to the US after attempting to transfer flights in

London. Weeks later, he made his second attempt to flee. He walked across the border into Mexico and made his way to El Salvador to quote, take a vacation and see the beaches later this month while getting on a flight from El Salvador to Argentina, he was arrested and sent back to the States. So he tried multiple times to flee to other countries to because like he knew that like people were going to come to get him eventually. So he tried to get away and did not do it very successfully. The beaches and yeah, to take a vacation. He wasn't he wasn't fleeing. He was taking a vacation. Yeah. And it is a good time to take a vacation. Look, that's not bad at at timing things necessarily. So three of the round members got arrested as well.

This new group of arrests follows similar charges as the previous set of Ram arrests citing felony rioting violations. This time, only one of the members pleaded guilty. This was a Tyler Lobb. The other three did not plead guilty to the charges. And in June of 2019, United States just United States District Court Judge Cormac J. Carney. It's a funny name dropped all of the federal rioting charges for all of the Ram members in this in this latest bout of arrests on the grounds that the statute used to prosecute the men infringed upon their First Amendment rights to free speech. So the idea that you can't assault people and then brag about it, I guess, was a violation of First Amendment. Judge Judge Carney, a conservative Republican

appointed by George W. Bush, wrote the charges were unconstitutionally overbroad in violation of the First Amendment. It is easy to champion free speech when it advocates a viewpoint in which we agree. It's much harder when the speech promotes ideas we find abhorrent. But an essential function of free speech is to invite dispute. I don't care what idiots and Tifa are. You're both young men. You don't want to be in custody for years. So that he's speaking to Rondo and a few other people being like, I don't care if you want to beat a Pantifa. You're both young men. You should not be in prison for a long time. So that's great that they were let off the hook from that. Per courthouse news lawyers, the court is like a law website, I guess. I don't know.

Lawyers for Ram members stated, the charges the men faced conspiracy to commit writing and travel or use of the interstate commerce with intent to write did not pertain to the actual physical violence that took place. The law can't go and suppress everyone's First Amendment rights, adding, quote, people who commit crimes will continue to be punished, which makes no sense, because these people committed crimes and absolutely got punished in no way, got let off. So in total, I guess four members of Ram got arrested by the FBI, actually got charged, and the other four did not. So yay, I don't know. So it's very stupid because these guys got arrested by the FBI and then a federal judge dropped the charges for half of them,

citing First Amendment violations, I guess. But this was about felony writing and beating people up. So it's a weird and it's very uncommon for if you know how the FBI works, they don't generally charge people unless they are very confident. It's like weird for them. It's one of the reasons why federal charges very rarely don't get convicted, right? Like it's, they generally put stuff out when they're fairly confident. So it's weird that they drop so many charges against these guys. And it kind of suggests maybe, I don't know, maybe there was pushback behind the scenes to prosecute right wing vigilantes. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Not not great. So four got arrested and sent to prison for at least a little bit of time,

and the other four did not. But the story of Ram is not over yet. While one of their leaders, Ben Daly, is still in federal prison, the other Robert Rondo is out frolicking around Europe trying to establish a new brand, which we will have the not pleasure of hearing about in part two. So yay. More fake brands of clothing coming up soon. Stay tuned. Great. Stay tuned. Awesome. Well, I feel great. So I want to go to the beach. I would love to go to the beach again sometime and not do a book burning, which seems like a waste of time at the beach. Go to the beach. May some people, you know, sell any illegal pepper spray. Yeah. Well, I only like to use it legally, which is why I put on a swastika before I

pepper spray people. There you go. Great. Well, that's that's the episode. I don't know what else to say here. Not to suck. Garrison, where can people follow you? Oh, yeah. I guess it's the end of a podcast. Yeah. So I have a Twitter account that I occasionally post videos on from protests, I guess, called at hungry bow tie. I guess I have a YouTube page where I post some of the same videos but edited edited together with funny music now, which I'm doing more of because it's more fun and less depressing. Yeah. And I guess I also have a have a I work on a podcast called Uprising, a guide from Portland. If you've heard of that, it's about the Portland BLM uprising in that way. That sounds fascinating. Oh, you will love it, Robert. It's great. You

have a whole bunch of stuff about protests and big fans. Yeah. Oh, good. Great. Fans of the show. Wonderful. Oh, you listen, Sophie. That's good. Yeah. I recommend. Yeah. But those are those are the main things. That's so cool. Absolutely. Glad to know about all that. Robert, I think this is where we bid everybody goodbye. Yeah. You know, I would like you all to just kind of, you know, think a lot about where this nation is heading about kind of what we've seen since 2017 with groups like Ram and then pick up a gun, go to your nearest hospital, get their bleach, mix up at the light for 20, 20, 21. I think it's the end of the episode. Yes. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you,

hey, let's start a coup. Back in the 1930s, a marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the US and fascism. I'm Ben Bullitt. I'm Alex French. And I'm Smedley Butler. Join us for this sordid tale of ambition, treason, and what happens when evil tycoons have too much time on their hands. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. Listen to CSI on trial on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you

get your podcasts. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian trained astronaut that he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know because I'm Lance Bass. And I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the earth for 313 days that changed the world. Listen to The Last Soviet on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.