Behind the Bastards - Part One: The Holy Rollers Sex Cult

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

Robert sits down with Matt Lieb to talk about Oregon's first sex cult: the Holy Rollers. (2 Part Series)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Calls a media. Ah, welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the worst people in all of history that also hosts the eternal unending battle between a man and his producer who wants him to send in the scripts of the episodes that they're reading. As usual, I'm winning this battle and to celebrate my triumph. I have the script. Not the latest script to celebrate my triumph. Matt Lee.

Her child. Northrop Grumman got me. Matt Lee. For child. Northrop Grumman got me. Northrop come in. That's right. Come in in my face. What's up? That's right. That's right.

We are advertising for drone-delivered sex toys. That's right. Yeah. The same technology that takes out school buses in Yemen can make you say, yeah, man. What? Do you have your soundboard, Matt? Uh, do I have my soundboard? I think you know the answer to that. Yeah.

Yeah, I do. Ha, ha, ha. This week, uh, my soundboard is, is all just different, uh, weird noises that Snoop makes on the wire. Yeah. Oh, I'm so, I feel so much joy. Uh-huh. Speaking of joy, we have a special Oregon themed behind the bastards for you. As you're probably aware, my adopted home state is one of one of the USA's great cultural hubs for cult activity.

And we are talking about an Oregon, a classic Oregon cult today. And part of what we're doing here is we are raising money for the Portland Children's Museum. Yeah, yeah, there used to be like a Portland Children's Museum with like a, in a building and stuff that had to close down in 2021. I think it was a pandemic casualty. But a group of parents in the metropolitan area

have created a Traveling children's museum the flip museum which stands for fun learning inspiration play It's a nonprofit. It goes around a different communities in the Portland area and provides kids there with like a you know head Visits them sort of children's museum experience. So we are helping them fund that this week. If you want to donate, they've set it up so that you can just text bastards to 50155. So if you text bastards to 50155, you'll get the information you need to donate to help the Flip Portland's Children Museum.

So that's pretty cool. I also love that in order to donate, you have to write the word bastard to the children's museum. It is, it would be, it is funny, it is funny, although no one still uses the term bastard to make bastards. I love children. You want to help some literal bastards? Oh, bastard's little bastard.

It's going to add to it's to 50155 Living in sin to vital Yeah, fuck wedlock that's right Now Matt How do you feel about sex cults? Oh? Love them pro. I've always wanted to be in one. I got really close to being in that one in San Francisco Oh, man the one the one taste thing It was like the orgasmic meditation one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love oh, yeah

Man, I was so close. I had a meeting with the like one of the ladies who like was recruiting And I just spent the whole meeting being like, I don't have any money, but can I just go and watch? Yeah. And they said, no. She started asking me to have, she was like $100 to it. Really was not that much money,

but I was very poor at the time. And I was like, I don't have a hundred dollars. She emailed me later. How about this? Ask your friends and family for a hundred dollars. I was like, lady, I used to do a lot of heroin. If I start asking for a hundred dollars, they're going to think I'm back on the stuff. No, no, no, no. It's for a sex cult. All right. Did you consider getting back on the heroin then. But yeah, I've always wanted to be in a sex cult. I just said I had never, you know, I was too much of a coward. Matt, I have, I believe in you. Uh, I just want to state that here. And I believe that all of us can benefit from the story of Oregon's first great sex cult leader,

Edmund Crefield. Now, I'm going to guess you haven't heard of Edmund Creffey. No, but I love that. That's a great name. That's a guy who fucks me. That is a guy who fucks names. And that's also a guy who declares himself the second coming of Christ name. Well, yeah, I mean.

Oh, yeah, this is one of those stories. Making yourself Jesus fucking a lot of people. Oh, it's so great. What a what a grift. It's the most relatable grift too. Like I get it, dog. Like you do what you gotta do to get that PC. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Especially if it means declaring yourself the son of God, which there's that great documentary series on Netflix about the twin flame cult, which is like this mix of like kind of young millennial older Jin Z, like fucking pseudo science about relationships, mixed with also I, this guy who is the only person who can determine if you've met your soulmate,

and Jesus, it's beautiful. It's a, it's very much descended because that guy spent some time in Oregon from the cult we're talking about today, which is have you ever heard the phrase holy roller? I have, but I don't know how this, this, this coat was the holy rollers. This is where the term comes from. And it is a surprisingly literal term.

There's a really popular song called holy roller. That's probably heard it. It may, may in fact, based on this, that's my assumption. So if you live elsewhere in the United States, Portland probably has primarily come to you in the form of a mix of like riot footage and Portlandia sketches. Right. Yeah. It had this reputation from like the end of the 90s to the early 2000s. It's like this kind of hit place where young artists types and intellectuals would congregate. And that's mainly because for a long time, it was like this cheapest city on the West Coast.

Yeah. Now, again, it's like riots and urban decay and drug use and shit that like Fox News focuses on. And one of the things that's weird when I got into studying this guy, who was like an early 1900s, 19 to 3 to 1906 Oregon cult figure, is you get all these like news stories about what happens with him. And they all portray Oregon the same way that like Fox does today, like this is a hundred

and something years. It's like this is the center of anarchy and violence and like these people are savage feral monsters, which I guess is something to be proud of. I love it. I love that Portland has never changed. Yeah. Never changed. The national media.

It's always been the same place. It's like 19 fucking 13 and some of everyone thinks you're so fucking cool with their beers. Topping down trees. Yeah. It is funny. So we'll be talking about that today. So yeah, we are chatting about a a sex cult leader who declared himself Jesus Christ Edmund Crefield. His actual name probably was Franz Edmund Crefield. He is yet again Matt a German. I love it. I come on for the German episodes. Oh, yeah, you love a German. I love it. No, we picked, I picked a cult episode for you because I was like,

You love a German. I love it. No, we picked, I picked a cold type of episode for you because I was like, we've done a lot of real horrible genocide guys in a, I want something lighter, right? A little bit more fun. And then bam, he turns out to be a German. You just can't, you can't miss him.

You can't miss him. Yeah. Finally, a German who doesn't kill people, he just likes to do sucky-fucky. Yeah, he is. This guy's really going to rehabilitate their image. Yeah. Yeah.

This is one of those cases where we have basically nothing about this guy's early life. He was probably born in Germany. I think it's possible he was born like Austria, like somewhere around Germany, but like, kind of unclear. We really don't know exactly when he was born. He was in probably in his 30s by the time the story starts, which would put his date of birth somewhere around the creation of Germany as a state 1870, 71, but we don't really know. All we can tell for sure is that he immigrated to the United States

likely at some point in the 1880s, probably as a teenager or a young adult. Some of his biographers postulate that he may have moved to the US to avoid serving in the Kaiser's Army because like everyone had to, right? Like you had to do your compulsory service in the Kaiser's Army. He may have like bounced to here because he didn't want to do that.

I'm a lover not a fighter. I get it. He really was. It's also possible that like his family was rich. Some biographers will suggest that given that he seems to have had a degree of education that would have been unlikely for him to have attained if he had grown up sort of like poor. But all of that sort of speculation, what we know for sure is that by 1899, he has made

his way from wherever he landed in the US, probably somewhere on the East Coast to Portland or aan. Yeah. Yeah. This is the mecca of every German immigrant who wants to meet a nice, hippie girl. Yeah. Every weirdo. Yeah.

From him to eventually Stalin's granddaughter. Portland to Paul's. Yeah. Portland to calls. Yeah. I just found that out recently and I followed out on Instagram. I'm like, gosh, she's cool. I like that. Yeah, she's like a larper. It's kind of neat.

Yeah, she seems fun. Yeah. So I don't mean larper in the sense we usually use it on the show. I mean, like literally, I think she does like live action role-playing stuff. Yeah. So we know that Crefield was a deeply religious man. He felt called felt called to witness for the Lord like, and like many similar young men in his position, he found himself drawn to the Salvation Army. Now, do you know a whole lot, Matt, about the actual history of the Salvation Army?

I don't. I've only ever been to a brick and mortar place called the Salvation Army and I bought some wooden golf clubs. Oh good, I didn't call you for a golf guy. Yeah, well, no, I wasn't. I just was like there and I was like, oh, look at all this cheap stuff. It's like goodwill, but worse.

And then there were some golf clubs and I bought them. And I was like, why did I do this? But yeah, I don't know. I don't know anything about the Salvation Army. I've always just assumed that they were like a charitable organization of some sort of... Yes, they are.

They are probably most people's primary contact with them is that during the holiday season, they'll be out in front of shops and stuff with these like red buckets. Yeah, they'll have a Santa there sometimes. Usually it's off on a Santa. Yeah, and people will point out, like if you're on social media, usually about this time of year, people will be like, don't donate to the Salvation Army. They're

problematic. There's a bunch of reasons for that. I'm not advocating for the Salvation Army. But we are talking about their early history, which is not entirely the same as the organization as it exists today. Are you about to tell me that they are an actual army and they got guns and stuff? They don't have guns. They are organized exactly like an army. Like that part, they took very literally. So a lot of soap beatings. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, the Salvation Army was founded not long before Crefield's Probe Over. It was formed in 1865, right? As the US Civil War is ending by a pawnbroker who became a minister named William Booth over in over in England. Um, now pawnbroker does not seem like a good person job to me, right? Yeah, I don't actually know what a pawnbroker is. This guy owns a pawn shop. Yeah, it's a guy who takes your stuff if you're poor and gives you some money for it.

And maybe you get it back later, but like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. You're not inherently bad, I guess, but it definitely like usually shady people wind up pod brokers. Yeah, it doesn't seem like a nice thing to do, but I could see it's usefulness. Yeah, I've known like a nice pond guy, but I don't know, maybe we should be just shit-talking

pod brokers, but now I think nowadays, because of how much like payday loan shit it's gotten a sketchy, right? So maybe it wasn't back then. Anyway, booth actually does not seem to have been wildly sketchy. He was however super Christian and his life ambition, he wanted to like turn the poor of London, particularly like prostitutes and alcoholics and criminals into good Christians. Now there's a lot of predatory religious figures

in the last century and today, you have a similar ambition. And what made Booth notable was his under, he had this like thing he would say where he was like, no one ever became a Christian when they were starving. So his attitude is if you're going to try to convert people, the best way to do that is by doing nice things for them.

Which is not the worst way to be an evangelist. If that works, I'm down for them. Right? Yeah. Which is like not the worst way to be an evangelist, right? No, yeah. That works. I'm down for that, you know, like at least on the surface. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't do a deep dive on booth, but I haven't found any evidence that he was like within sort of the charitable figures of his day, anything, but like a pretty reasonable example. So his focus was he wanted to spread the gospel by improving the lives of poor and suffering people. Now at first he limited this to giving food and clothing and other kind of help to converts. But in 1878, like this is at least the the organization sort of story who knows if this is literally true, but the story goes that in 1878 he's sitting down and he's

talking with his secretary and he uses the phrase as he's like dictating a piece of propaganda, basically, the Christian mission is a volunteer army. This was like what he wanted to use as their slogan. And his son heard him and he's like, I'm not a volunteer, I'm a regular or nothing, right? Like, I'm not a volunteer soldier, I'm like a career soldier in this Christian army. And that convinces Booth to change the name of his nascent charitable organization to the Salvation Army. And he would adopt a military style structure with like military style uniforms and shit, and ranks like officers in the Salvation Army

are called like Lieutenant Captain. Booth is the general, right? Like that's how they discuss, talk about themselves. Now, that's like, I don't know, whatever, that's not particularly problematic. What is problematic is that new converts are called captives, which I do consider a little concerning. That's the captain's weird thing to-

That's odd. I mean, I guess it's like, maybe it's a critique of militarism where it's like private, strong, and well- Yeah. It's odd, there is definitely a degree of like colonizer brain that is present within the salve but this is it this is England in the late 18 The Salvation Army again, there's a lot of ugly things about the organization today that this is not this episode is not about that At the time that's founding though, again, it seems to have mostly been about like, yeah,

making providing meals to like people in London slums and shit. In a history of the organization, Pamela Walker wrote, quote, the mission, however, differed from other home missions. The authority at granted women, its emphasis on holiness theology and revivalist methods, its growing independence, and its strict hierarchical structure were all features that sharply distinguished it from its contemporaries. The Christian mission was created in the midst of the working class communities it aimed to transform. So there are some ways in which it's kind of less problematic. With some of its peers, it gives a lot more sort of like power to women that are

in the organization. It generally comes out of communities as opposed to being imposed on them. That said, it is again colored by some problematic aspects of the time, including colonialism. And 1890, Booth and some of his colleagues wrote a manifesto, a book titled, In Darkest England and the Way Out. And as you may have guessed from that title,

they're basically just comparing living conditions of the urban poor in like Western cities like London to Africa. Quote. As there is a darkest Africa, is that not also a darkest England? living conditions of the urban poor in western cities like London to Africa. Quote. As there is a darkest Africa, is that not also a darkest England? Civilization, which can breed its own barbarians, does it not also breed its own pigmies? May we not find a parallel at our own doors and discover within a stone's throw of

rocket feed rules and palaces, similar horrors to those which standly has found existing in the great equatorial forest. Hello, chimney swoops is an old black paper, man. That is basically this guy's belief system. And when he references Stanley, he's talking about bastards, Pot alumni, Henry Morton Stanley, who again machined gun natives in Africa repeatedly. Not a cool guy, but also very like popular. He writes a lot of books about his exploration and shit that are viral in this time. So, you know, aspects of

Boots writing do kind of flirt with class politics. He's got a lot of focus on inequality, but he doesn't see the root of inequality as like the structural factors inherent to the system that governs the British Empire. He seems the root of inequality as like the structural factors inherent to the system that governs the British Empire. Sure. She seems the root of inequality as like the fact that the poor don't have enough religion and discipline. Right. They need Jesus and that's all they needed.

Yeah. The primary thing that like elevates them, because that's not an uncommon view among Christian charitable types in this period. Yeah, even today. Yeah, even today. What does kind of elevate him is that there is this consistent focus on like, and the way that you make them disciplined is by making sure they're not starving, first of all,

which is like, no matter what else you're doing, not a bad thing. No, yeah, it works. People do in fact need food. The organization, the Salvation Army spreads to the US in the late 1800s and they hold their first kettle fundraising drives. That's the start of them like ringing bells outside of shops and shit. That all begins in San Francisco. And by 1897, the Salvation Army is providing Christmas meals to more than 100,000 people

in the United States. So that's about when Crefield joins. He's kind of important by 1899. We know as with the Army then, so like right as it's sort of coming into prominence in the United States is when he gets involved when it's sort of Really snowballing as an organization Now whatever existed in Crefield's background He was charismatic and self-confident as an adult. He's really good at speaking He's good at preaching and his superiors in the Salvation Army decide this is a guy who might you know

Be able to hold some rank here and they send him to their officer candidate school. Once he's there and he's like under some scrutiny from from leaders, they're like, oh my god, this man is out of his fucking mind, right? He cannot work with other people. He is incapable of listening to anyone else. He has his own ideas about the Bible and if yours clash with them, all he'll do is talk over you. He cannot have a conversation. Like, yeah, just like the worst type of guy to be in a school with. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking awful. Truly terrible. God wants you to fuck. Yeah. fruitful. He says. And when he gets out, you know, on the street working for the army,

one of the things they are also fine find is that anywhere he's stationed, donations will drop because he loves ranting about his ideas, but he hates money and he doesn't like asking for it. And he started to believe that the Salvation Army has been corrupted by this focus on donations, like it's too money focused, is supposed to be focused on spreading the gospel, specifically his very idiosyncratic ideas about the gospel, which like he's not wrong. One of the very valid criticism of the Salvation Army is that like it is really much about the money, you know, about getting in those donations. So he's not alone in finding that frustrating, but he's like, it's frustrating because

what they should be doing is telling everyone what I believe about the bike. Yeah. Yeah. And have we found out what he believes that's different from what they believe? Not yet. We are about, he's kind of forming those ideas right now, right? Definitely one of his beliefs at this time is that like Christianity has been corrupted by modernity, right? He's not a, doesn't like electric lights, doesn't like all the right? He's not a, doesn't like electric lights, doesn't like all the fancy new clothes people are wearing, doesn't like, you know, the bicycles with the big wheel, at the top and the little wheel at the bottom. Really not a bicycle fella.

That is going to be a factor in the story, Matt, you've predicted it. So. Well, it's a story about Portland, Oregon, of course, you're gonna be able to start. There's bicycles. Yeah. So Crefield gets moved from Portland to the Dallas, which is Oregon's second city,

with a name that sounds kind of like Dallas. And then he gets the other one being Dallas, Oregon. And then he has moved to MacMineville to Hapner. And everywhere he goes, donations just plummet. He is a horrible person to have on your team if you're a Salvation Army guy. Some sources I've read suggest he also has like a moral issue with taking money,

but a big part of it seems to be that he knows the money is going not just, he's going to feeding people. And when the Salvation Army like does these big, like feeding people drives or whatever, when they have these big events, they're kind of secular, right? We wouldn't consider them secular, but Crefield considers them secular, right? Right. And he says this in an interview with a reporter, sometime after leaving the Salvation

Army. Quote, while in the Salvation Army, I had the light, but I did not have the power. I was teaching his works, but was still in the darkness. I did not experience the fullness of his power until I had carried long before God in prayer. Then the light came. The Holy Ghost told me that I should live a life of pure faith. I was to do everything by faith. I could no longer work for the army, because it's people are not entirely of God.

I could not take part in soliciting for funds. I was directed by the Holy Ghost not to solicit for money. It is not right to hold ice cream socials and other social gatherings where money is taken. Just knocking ice cream out of homeless people's hands. No. God doesn't want it. He sounds fun man. He sounds like it's gonna work out good for him. You know what God does want though, Matt Leib? What does he want? He wants you to buy the products and services that support this podcast. Oh, that's what I thought God wanted. Good thing I'm going to buy them. Yeah, check it out, give God, you know, like 30 bucks. He needs it. God is hard up. Now, is it possible that God just

wants to buy some Molly and need some cash? Sure. You know, but would say, but who are we to judge? God, he works hard. Why should he take Molly this weekend? I have always said God, your work hard, you got to play hard. Yeah. Get some Molly, massage your friends, suck on one of those pacifiers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go see VNV nation. God loves being being being ancient and born before time itself. He's a big VNV nation, man. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Why am I getting into the podcast game now? Well, it seems like the best way to let my family know what I'm up to instead of visiting or being part of their incessant group text. I'll be interviewing people that I find interesting, so not celebrities, and certainly not comedians.

I'll be interviewing my plumber, my stylist, my wife's gynecologist. We'll be covering topics like religion, travel, sports, gambling, but mostly it will be about being a working mother. If you're looking for a podcast that will educate and inspire, or one that will really make you think, this isn't the one for you, but it will be entertaining to a very select few because you don't make it to your mid-40s with IBS without having a story or two to tell. Join me as I take my place among podcast royalty like Joel Olstein and Lance Bass.

Those are words I hope I'd never have to say. Listen to Toss Show in the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner. Rob called me, so would Ado Bryan and asked me what I knew about this crime. I know 60 years later, new leads are still emerging. To me, an award-winning journalist, that's the making of an incredible story. And on this podcast, you're going to hear it told by one of America's greatest storytellers.

Well, ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president? My dad, the father of JFK, screwed us at the Bay of Pigs, and then he screwed us after the Cuban Missile Crisis. We'll reveal why Lee Harvey Oswald isn't who they said he was. I was under the impression that Lee was being trained for a specific operation, and will pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the public. And we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcasts. Over the past five years, making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've received hundreds of messages from people all around the country, asking for help with an unsolved murder that's affected them their families and their communities. We may have some information for you. I don't have that help any. Maybe they saw something and something happened. In past seasons of Helen Gone I've only been able to focus on one case but I've launched a new show on the Helen Gone feed Helen Gone Murderline. Every week I've featured a new show on the Helen Gone feed, Helen Gone Murderline. Every week I've featured a new case, add updates to old ones, and help as much as I can to get the word out about unsolved murders.

I'm Catherine Townsend. If you have a case you'd like me and my team to look into, you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murderline at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder line on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Ah, we're back. This is behind the bastards. And again, we are this episode raising money for the Portland Children's Museum to donate text bastards to 50155.

And we're back to the story, back to the tale. So. Let's get back into it. Let's talk about God. Talkin' about the G-man, not Gordon Litty, but God. So Crefield gets tired of working for the Salvation Army and the Salvation Army, by the way, very tired of Edmund Crefield. They've had about enough of this shit anyway. He's not even good at the job, which is literally just being guy with Bell, getting the money. Yeah, can't do it. Can't shut up long enough to do it. So he bounces and he joins the Pinta

Costell Mission and Training School in Salem, Oregon. This is the project of a guy named Martin Ryan, and it's a fundamentalist Christian like school, right? That's a way to look at it. In their book, Holy Rollers, Team A Crack, and in Robert Blodgett described the school this way. Ryan's group was part of a holiness movement that taught the Bible in its entirety from the first word of Genesis to the last word of Revelation. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, which is Revelation 2219.

Basically, if you edit the Bible at all, or don't take it all literally, that's how they interpret it. If you don't take every word of the Bible, literally God will let you on fire and shit. God damn it. It's so boring though. It is, it's super boring. It sucks. It's a long boring book with too many fucking words.

Oh my God. So many words more than they're needed to be. Yeah, I don't care who begat, who. Just get to the fucking. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be get my fist in your fucking face if you don't get along with the good parts of this shit. I'm gonna take out my big cat and just breath, breath. Wow, nice, nice.

I'm a rat, no it's good. It's good. So during his time with Ryan, Kreffield becomes aware of a new doctrine, which is like a new sort of like set of religious teachings. And as a part of that, he becomes aware of the fact that God has chosen him specifically. He is the Lord's elect his new prophet on earth.

Now, that's a great thing to learn about yourself. That's a real quick turnaround on this guy. I mean, I knew he was like, you know, a little bit pedantic and maybe confrontational, but now he's immediately like, you know what? I am God-profit. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So, you know, speaking of being God the prophet, I am, I don't know, Sophie, are we allowed to keep doing the Jesus Christ of podcasting bits or did we get weird messages over those? No, but I hate it. Okay, well then we'll keep doing it.

I like it. I don't know what it is. Let's do it. You are the Jesus Christ of God. I have the Lord and Savior of podcasting. That's right. That's obvious. That's obvious. That's right. I'm your dad, bitch. And that's where we're at. No, so I feel like you are the Holy Spirit because you're mysterious. And if there, if there is a father, God, the father of podcasting, unfortunately, it's Joe Rogan. So that's a very masculine. Of course, that's your dad. What's the gnostic about this? Joe Rogan is like the evil fake God. Yeah. And yeah, that's

right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're the you're the real Demy urge God and again, I'm Mary Magdalene. I'm prostitute and I just want to rub oil on your feet I'm more of a feet guy in the Bible. Yeah, so I'm just gonna if I could just do that. Yeah, absolutely feet Robert speaking of feet Nope, not speaking of feet guys So we're talking about Edmund Crafield. Sorry. Who just had it revealed to him that he is God's elect. And I found an interesting article by Sophie Kose, submitted to the Young Historians 2017 conference hosted by Portland State University that describes his next movements in this

period. After separating from the Salvation Army, Cfield moved around to different cities, preaching his radical take on Christianity, most of which were places he had previously worked as a soldier and had connections to. People from cities like the Dalles and MacMindville dismissed Crefield for being too extreme, leading to his eventual arrival in Corvallis in 1903. Although the population was fairly poor, the community was close knit and dominantly religious.

These characteristics, as well as any connections he gained in the Salvation Army, likely prompted Crefield's faith in the people of Corvallis. Now, you know what I mean about Corvallis, Matt Leib? Literally nothing. Nobody does. Nobody fucking does.

It is like one of the most boring towns in this whole state. This is the only thing that ever happened there. It's very pretty. It's in the western part of Oregon. It's kind of right in between Portland and and and Eugene. Yeah. And in this period, today, I think Corvallis is like, you know, like many sort of less dense chunks of of Oregon. But back then, it is dirt poor, right? Everyone who lives there, almost everyone who lives there are these like subsistence farmers who leave, leave very lean lives full of hard work, right? Yeah. It is a tight-knit community. There are two newspapers. And since they are, it really lets you know, like, how much, how similar newspapers were to

like tweeting and TikTok in the era before those things. Because the newspapers in Corvallis, they report absolutely everything that happens there. And I am talking with the most pedestrian shit-imagined. Hell yeah. Blodgett and McCrack and Ride quote, everything was reported, everything. Go out of town, it was reported.

A swift journey on a bicycle was made Saturday. By Frank Hurt. He went from Corvallis to Oregon City in six hours. It is not likely that the trip was ever made by wheel in so short a time. That's from the Times in 1901. A man rode a bicycle. He's loved the journalism in a small town

is just the most nosy neighbor. Yeah, and he has a printing press. I do want to do like a modern like a modern day, like with, like the same like Woodward and Bernstein level, like a, uh, uh, skull duggery and like drama that you get from like Watergate era journalism movies, but about stuff like this, like a guy gets a call in the night from like a, a shadowy figure.

And wrote his bicycle to from CorvalliStoregan City today. Pull the other thread He gets car bombs trying to report on it Said me with someone in an underground garage. He gives them a file and the file is just someone like a Granny picture of a man on the giant bicycle. Yeah, I think he's visiting family and Eugene. Oh, I love you. So the problem, you know, Karekfield picks Corvallis because it's the small town.

Everyone's very religious. He's like, it's kind of isolated. You obviously want that as a cult leader. And like, these people will believe anything. So like, these are, these are my ideal sort of provincial roofs to join the cult that I'm going to get. They'll buy what I'm saying about being the new prophet of Jesus Christ.

The downside of this place for him, which he doesn't seem to realize at the time, is that like because it's such a tight knit town, Kovallis is the kind of place where people are open to burying bodies for their neighbors, right? Which presents a danger for cult leaders, right? Like that's not necessarily the best place to start fucking around. You get kind of lost in a city. Like,

you can't in Corvallis. Um, yeah, yeah. The, the idea that like this small town literally everyone knows where the bodies are buried except for you. Yeah. Not necessarily your safest bet. Yeah, it's kind of bad. So like a lot of the other cult leaders we've studied, the 12 tribes, which we did earlier this year comes to mind, Crefield starts out when he first moves to Corvallis. He's not giving the whole span of like what his beliefs have become. He starts preaching relatively popular Christian doctrine and he's still, he's identifying himself as a prophet, but he's basically saying like, I'm a messenger who's and God talked directly to me, but he's still, he's like giving,

he's respectful of like the local churches. He's not trying to get in their way. He's not trying to like out himself as somebody who's like running against all of the existing kind of religious infrastructure in the town, right? More of what he's saying is that like, hey, I have this close connection to God, and if you listen to what I'm saying, I can help guide you to spiritual perfection. That's the term he uses a lot. And this is kind of his key innovation, right? Which is that he's not just saying,

I am speaking with God, but I can teach you how to receive direct messages from God, right? Oh, God DMed me. Yeah. It gives people a little bit more to aspire to, how to receive direct messages from God, right? Oh, which God DMed me. Yeah. It gives people a little bit more to aspire to, rather than just listening to you, like they get to get messages from God. And what it's also going to mean is that, like, if Crefield's not around to talk to them,

like if he's in prison and stuff, the cult can perpetuate because these people are also talking to God themselves, right? Yeah. So it's a smart way to set this shit up. He begins to claim, you know, once he's got people following him, showing up every week to us new and preach, that once everyone's ready, like once people have like been following his guidance enough, they'll be added to a holy role in heaven, where God lists all of his best friends, right?

Oh, that's what the role is. One theory as to where that best friends, right? And this is, oh, that's what the role is. One theory as to where that came from, right? The other theory is that it has to something to do with the specific nature of how they are worshiping when he's holding these big preaching sessions. And I'm going to quit from blodgett McCracken again. For hours, Krefield kept his flock in a state of frenzied excitement. He had them rolling, praying, rolling, wailing, rolling, groaning, rolling, rolling, singing, rolling, clapping, rolling, stopping, rolling, tumbling, rolling, and rolling, and rolling, for hours on end, he had them rolling. 12 hours, if it was a short service, 24 hours, if it was a typical service. All

heads were spinning because they were gloring in heaven. And so what the fuck? Yeah, he's literally got them rolling around on the ground for 24 hours at a stretch. And part of what's power. I get that. I kind of want that. Who wouldn't want that, right? I would love to just make a bunch of piggy's roll in front of me. Yeah. Oh, for God. I have to do. Yeah, that's probably what was going on in like Andy Kaufman's head when he made that audience like walk with him to get ice cream Where he's like I could take this much further. Yeah Unlimited power just takes it. Yeah, they occupy a police station. Yeah, I think also what's going on here You know like little little little kids when they find out if they can like spin around they get kind of dizzy

They yeah, right. A lot. It's like getting high in the first way. Totally. Exactly what I was thinking. It's like, is he getting these rules high from rolling? Because like, yeah, they're like, especially if you're not eating, you're starving yourself and rolling around a bunch. Yeah, you're going to feel weird. You know?

You're going to become susceptible. Yeah. Yeah. And this kind of like some of this is classic cold shit, right? The whole starving people for periods of time, a lot of cults do this because it makes you worse at decision-making I haven't heard of anyone having people like roll around on the ground for 24 hours to get them all buzz That's kind of cool. That's NK Rolltra. Yeah. Yeah That's how we're gonna get you to fucking give us the goods

That's kind of a credible theory as to where the name Holy Rollers comes from too. It's like, oh, yeah, man, I get why you would call that. They're literally worshiping by rolling around on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Now, this kind of all-consuming worship is consistent with what Krefiul was starting

to claim about his God-inspired take on Christianity. He believed, and he would argue God had told him that true Christians should not have time for anything else in their lives, but worship, right? Anything else you're doing, farming, raising your kids, literally anything but worship is a waste of time and of the devil, right? So if you're, you know, the upside of that is that it keeps everyone focused on him the whole time. The downside is that spinning a full day or more rolling on the ground is not conducive to like growing the food you need to survive. Right. Yeah. These are subsistence farmers. Like they can only roll for a little bit and then they get back to the farm. They don't have a

lot of rolling time. Yeah. But it's also the other thing, we just noted how starving yourself and rolling around a bunch gets you kind of in this altered state that makes you more Suggestable. That's not the only thing going on. It's also fun, right? They're not just rolling around. They're like rolling and dancing and like flinging their bodies around and like shrieking Screaming. They are expressing themselves and their feelings both through like vocalization and through physical movements. harassing themselves and their feelings, both through like vocalization and through physical movements. And these are people not only are these all subsistence farmers, which is a difficult and often brutal way to exist, especially in 1903.

This is a super strict Victorian pruders society that is anti women expressing themselves, that's anti many different facets of self expression. We consider like normal today. And he's giving them an outlet. Like, yeah, that's it's fun. People like being in Crefields, cold a lot better than they like slowly dying on a farm in rural Oregon, you know, like, yeah, this is like, you know, Peloton classes or type of overs. There's a definite element of Peloton type like that that kind of shit here and most of the people joining his cult are women, right? Yeah, some of them are well off some of them are poor, but all of them feel like they're missing something like in

In part what you get from all these people is like they see bored with their lives because their life fucking suck. Yeah, shitty All 1617 time star making kids. Yeah,, guys shows up hot fucking German guy shows up and is like, Hey, we're rolling this week. Yeah, and they're going to be like, Sure. Yeah, I don't want to go back. Yeah, this is a time when like a game was like having a wheel at a stick. Yeah, you know, we're closing your eyes and pretending your brother didn't die of consumption. You know, like that's a fun parlor game for us. Yeah, we're gonna do two newspapers that are keeping tabs on your neighbors.

You hear about this bicycle shit. So, uh, Prefield preached a sense of separation from the profane world, but he also utilized the tactics that he'd learned out in it. And chief among them was hypnotism, right? We don't have as much to tell about this as I'd like, but it is theorized that he took classes in Hypnotism is basically certain that he did Because he's using a lot of like at the time hypnotism is like a viral meme spreading through society it's super hip and

meme spreading through society. It's super hip. And a lot of the what he's doing in his speeches is like kind of borders on hypnotism, right? Like he seems to be very familiar with that and utilizing that as well, which helps is part of why he's got this popularity early on. Yeah. So I'm in the moral around. I mean, that shit is fucking, you know, that feels kind of hypnotic. And instead of a watch swinging back and forth, it's your head. Yeah. And so, you know, feels kind of hypnotic instead of a watch swinging back and forth that's your head. Yeah, and so you know this uh doesons and doesons flock to his banner but you know doesons hundreds more of people in Corvallis are angry right he's described in newspaper editorials as a hypnotist they write that his followers are quote dead to all human sympathies. Now, I mean, they're doing what I would if I saw this in the wild. I, a modern person would say, they're witches.

Yeah. Yeah. So I could see like the rest of the town or the neighboring towns being like, what the fuck is happening here? Yeah. Yeah. This disturbs a lot of people. Sure.

And it's also like the idea, you know, part of why I'm not sure exactly how solid the hypnotism claims are is that the journalist at the time used this a lot and a large reason why they describe him as a hypnotist is because they have to explain how all of these young women are drawn to him while in their opinion he's ugly, right?

He's not even that hot. They all roll around. I'm going to quote from Sophie Kose right up here. Quote, Edmund Crefield was described as being physically unattractive and homely, but very persuasive and attractive for other reasons. His personality was said to be magnetic. Many claim that he had power over our others, especially women that put them under a spell.

Now, those other reasons we will get into a little bit later, but not quite yet. For now, the final piece of the Crefield puzzle, and the real bit of genius in his cult, was that he doesn't just promise conversations with God, he added a ticking clock, right? You can connect directly with God. He can talk to you personally,

but there's only so many names that we have space for on the Holy Role, right? Yeah. God's like one of those cell phone plans and the 90s, we got to like pick your five friends to text with for free. Like that's how speaking with God works. Yeah, look, God doesn't do roaming data.

Like, you have to be in the plan. God's plan is a very, very cheap cell phone plan. I love this. And you know who else offers cheap cell phone plans? Ah, the products and services. At least one of them, yeah. We definitely, at least one of them does in fact. Oh good.

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We're back. We're talking about Eddie C. So many of the first members of Crefields cult are salvation army volunteers who saw his personal and a static relationship with God as much preferable to acting as foot soldiers for donations. Now initially he would allow you to kind of be in his flock and also stay a member of the Salvation Army or stay a member of one of the other churches that are in town in Corvallis. But soon he starts to warn his growing flock that other Christians are not trustworthy, right? And they have to start isolating themselves. He preached,

quote, when you get him, the Holy Ghost, you'll bring consternation wherever you go. Peace ceases when you make your appearance. They're so called Christians of the modern churches of today. Rise up in arms against you and call you a disturbor of the peace, charging you with the grime of breaking up their churches. And he absolutely went deliberately about breaking up churches, right? First he uses his familiarity with the organization to pull in salvation army volunteers, and then he would like preach to people outside of churches when they were in the mood to receive God. And once they start getting interested in his idea of this direct connection

with God, he introduced a question, right? If your old church or if the salvation army was really holy, wouldn't you already be talking with God, right? You've already accepted this as the goal and you're not, which means these must be false churches, right? Yeah, he makes a great point. He makes a solid point, yeah? People go to church every Sunday, they won't talk to God once or God at least doesn't talk to God. No, but you take mushrooms, boom, you're right there, baby.

So take mushrooms, talk to the trees, dog. They'll give you some life advice. Yeah, Yeah. So perhaps it says more about how boring core valices than anything, but this pitch worked on quite a few people. The Gazette, a local paper wrote this in December of 1902. The Salvation Army's people were not entirely of God or so Crefield, God's elected told them. So all of God's anointed deserted the army. The big drum of the Salvation Army is no longer in evidence about 8 o'clock each evening, and tambourines are very cheap.

The army has gone to its religious waterloo, it met a body of divine healers, the army of holiness or something, and went over to the enemy. True religion of a respectable character, a religion that is reasonable, that commands at least the respect of the greatest thinkers and a better class of people, is the last thing on earth that should be treated in a contemptuous manner. But a holy show that is a burlesque on religion is a bad thing for any community, as it is not taken seriously, and consequently lays the foundation for the youth of the land to scoff at religion of any form. There should be reason and moderation in all things.

There may be efficacy and prayer, who can say there is not, but it must be the prayer of a sane mind and a reasonable being. The prayer of a religious fanatic cannot avail much. Oh, my God. I know. I know. This is suggested. That is by the way, this story is not a story of like the good people of Corvallus in this evil cult leader. Everyone sucks in this story, right? Everyone is it, like they're all pieces of shit. So is this reporter, right? Being like our Victorian

churches that teach you to hate your penis. Yeah. Like that. They don't even punch their balls in that church. Yeah. Well, they're not locking themselves inside a chastity belt. This isn't this nut telling them that you can have fun. Yeah.

Yeah. No, this is like, it reminds me of what was that. Wild wild country where you like learn about the Roshnish And then they do interviews with the townsfolk and I was like, I don't know if I like them either I'm with the Roshnish here. I would have poisoned them too. Yeah, I would have fucking did some ground beavers in their waters of life as well. Yeah, why not why not? I do that anyway just for fun. Yeah, it's hilarious to watch people get a lot of beavers in their water. Is that beaver?

Yeah, scientists recommend at least you drink three beavers per year. So yeah, that's good science. It's good science. So one of Krefiul's first converts was a young woman named Maude Hurt, which is kind of a cool name. Like if you were doing like a

fucking Warren Ellis comic about like a badass female Ellis comic about like a badass female preacher who was like killing, I don't know, gangsters in 1904, Colin Watt hurt. Yeah. Yeah. Cool name. Good stuff. Yeah. So one of her friends told a journalist later that from an early age, Mod's chief aim had been, quote, to become nearly as perfect as a Christian could be. And for a time she practiced this by like, she was always the person. If like, you were sick, she'd go over to your house, she'd watch you, she'd take care of your kids. If you had like, go harvest and stuff, she's a very nice giving person. Now, that's beginner level shit. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get to the real

Christian shit. Well, when she's 14, she decides to do that. She joins the Salvation Army where she meets Crefield. And very soon thereafter is like, I'm out. I, you know, the Salvation Army is too focused on money. I want to meet this guy who is kind of seriously hot, telling me he's a problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I'm getting in there. I'm picturing Willem Defoe, but the base on the way they're writing about him is just like for another reason too. Yes. Yeah. It would be the right guide to play this. There are least Willem Dafoe, like Circa Boondock Saints. We're going to create guide to play this. So you do get similar stories from other converts as this passage from the Wacoldi Rollers makes clear. One of Krefield's most ardent followers was Samson Levens.

Samson, 35, the second youngest of nine children had been a private in the Spanish-American war and was now a logger. He had a deep interest in the Methodist church, he said. But when it failed to meet his heart's desire, he joined Krefield's church. Some people think ours is a strange doctrine, but John Wesley was attacked by mobs

when he founded the Methodist church, Samson said adding, of course the church now is not as he, John Wesley was attacked by mobs when he founded the Methodist Church. Samson said adding, of course, the church now was not as he, John Wesley, left it. So he's like, I was already a part of this kind of fringe movement that was founded by a nut. And, you know, the fact that Crefields is weird is just makes him seem more legitimate to me. Right.

Yeah, it's like the Methodist Church has gotten too normal now. It's time to get weird again. Yeah. Now, we see this same pattern over and over again. A man or a woman of belief joins the church, but they don't feel spiritually sated, right? Mod doesn't feel sated by the Salvation Army. This fucking dude, Levin's doesn't feel sated

from the Methodist church. And so they leave to find something more radical. And it's not just radical, but it's interesting. I cannot overemphasize how much the appeal of being in Crefield's cult is based on the fact that life is boring as shit outside of it, right? You have to reckon with the fact with how much this place fucking sucks. Yes, that is a big fact.

So in mid 1903, the city of Corvallis officially forbade Crefield and the holy rollers from hosting meetings in Corvallis Exiled Edmund found an island a few miles outside of town. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, man. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're getting to an island as we get on the water That's what's sick as we yeah, that's how you that's when Colts get good That's what Colts really find themselves folks. There is an island in a place where to leave means to drown. There is an island right in the middle of Portland, Oregon. You know, it's right in the Willamette. If we buy that island, folks, if we raise money together and buy me that island, I promise I'll make this guy look like a fucking chump.

Like first off, so a lot of you killed. Like let's just be honest. Oh, yeah, but no, it'll be a good Netflix documentary. No, it's blood and blood out, but also, you know, that you're going to learn about how to do like knife throwing. You'll learn how to tie knots. You're going to learn, you know, how to wash feet. Once they kill us, Taylor Lawtoner's going to play me. It's going to be great. Oh, it's's gonna be so good. Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you You guys have a similar why why why because this so fee I know no you did not get that the the Taylor Lautner hat

I wore like two months ago. You didn't get the reference and I heard my I have hat blindness so fee Thank you for making it out. I read it out loud to you. And then I made through. I have a seer blindness too. Yeah. Well, listeners, Robert, nor any member of the Coleson Media Team, not a single one of them knew my, where the hell have you been?

Loka had not a single one of them. And then I made them all watch the clip twice on a team meeting. Is that twilight? That's what, thank you, Matt. Thank you, Matt. Yeah, why is it is? Well, it's because it's Taylor Lottner.

Is either that or Spy Kids. Yeah. Isn't it anything else? Spy Kids is my record. It wasn't in Spy Kids. He wasn't, oh no, he was in Shark Boy. Yeah, oh gosh. Same diff.

Same diff. I have Shark Boy slash Spy Kids blindness too. So, you know, it happens. You can't make fun of me for it. Anyway, in mid 1903. That's who's gonna play you. In mid 1903, the city of Corvallis officially forbade Crefield and the Holy Rollers

from hosting meetings in town. So he decides we're gonna move to this island, Robinson's Island, and he described to his followers, he's like, this is literally the Garden of Eden. So biblical scholars out there, if you're curious, the Garden of Eden, it turns out, was based right on the outskirts of Corvallus. Yeah, you could take a fairy to it. Yeah, you could take a fairy there. So again, and it's, you know, if you've been to a lot of these islands in Western Oregon, they are very pretty places. Like it's not a big stretch to be like this is paradise, especially this is kind of like

midsummer or so late summer, which is like always perfect, it's a reddable. And it's easy to see how you would enjoy living out in one of these islands and like midsummer in Western Oregon. Yeah, there's not those snitch journalists out there. And now you can roll around on the ground. Yeah, we have a titties pop up. No one's gonna yell at you for doing this. Titties were popping out because he's letting people know

at this point, you know what's, what is godly is not wearing these fancy new fangled clothes, you know. That's the whole point of the Garden of Eden dog before. Yeah, absolutely. Eve ate that apple like an eat. Everyone just had their titties and this. It is pretty fun. Yeah, they're doing a lot of rolling around.

They're shrieking for hours or days at a time. They're not wearing much in the way of clothing. They don't have a lot of food, but there's a peach orchard nearby. So every day they just goards themselves on stolen peaches. And then they return to worshiping, which is not the worst life you can live in this period of time. Everything. Yes, you're describing what my sex cult fantasy is. It's just like fucking gorging myself on peaches rolling around screaming. Yeah. Yeah. What's what's not to like? I'm married and have a baby, but I could still do that. That all does sound fun. But if you're keeping track on your cult bingo card, Crefield has at this point convinced his followers to

sever themselves from their friends and their community and work them into a state of constant exhaustion and starvation. And if you know your cults, you know what comes next. It's time to start fucking them, right? Like that is that is what follows. Naturally, the next step. So one fine day, Edmund Krefield gets up in front of his flock and he tells them that he and God have just gotten off the phone and God, I just got off the horn with God. He's doing good. And he says, my calm is holy. That is where this ends. He first says, God has told me I need to rename myself Joshua. Right. So now Edmund Krefield is, Crefield. And it gets better, because God has also told him that all of his female followers are now eligible to become

brides of Christ, right? And one of these brides of Christ is going to be chosen by God to give birth to the second coming, right? One of you is going to be the new Mary. But obviously, God can't just pick one of you. We got to test you out. And guess who's testing you out? And I got to audition you for God. Yeah. Listen, God has not told me. He says he needs to feel through my penis, which holy vessel, your pussy should receive the seed of the Lord or something. That's right. That is basically almost exactly how this goes, Matt.

Now, Joshua's male followers had a purpose too, of course. And their purpose was to provide him with the resources he needed to build his flock. Now this is all he wants them doing, right? Early on, there were a number of couples who joined the Holy Rollers, mod, the Salvation Army veteran I mentioned earlier. She joined with her fiance, a guy named James Barry,

who was like a local businessman, and I think kind of the wealthiest guy in town. And so early on, he's cool with this, in part because he needs Berry's money, right? And Berry gives a couple of loans to the cult, but it's never quite enough. So one day, when they're out on the island, James Berry, who's kind of like in and out, right?

He's not fully committed, but he's giving him money because his fiancee is in it, and he loves her. He arrives on the island to like check in on Maud he finds the Holy Rollers even more excited than usual. And he's like, why are you guys also fucking amped up? And they're like, we're excited because God's going to build us a tabernacle, right? He's going to start construction immediately. We're going to get our, you know, we're living outside falls getting closer. We really need a place.

He's going to build it for us. And James is like, well, tabernacles ain't cheap. Where are you guys getting the money to build it? And they're like, Oh, you, you're giving us the money. And it turns out Joshua had started preaching down it. Joshua, I got to get a second job. I got to work for both newspapers now. What's, what's really funny about this to me? So Joshua is like, we need even more money from James Barry to build a temple, right? We need to get like all of his money, is post these loans he's given us.

And what's the best way to do this? Should I like reach out to him, talk to him privately, be like, hey man, we need more money than you've been given us, we gotta build this temple. He's like, no, no, no, that, he could say no. The best thing to do is I'm gonna tell everyone that he's already agreed and then trust that

that will like shame him into doing it, right? Yeah. This does not go over well. James like confronts the prophet and he's like, dude, I've already loaned you guys money and it's due, right? The loan has passed due. And Crefeld is like, I came here to pick it up.

No, no, no, easy mistake to make, but it's not due. I just got off the phone with God. He said he canceled the debt. So actually, would you do me a favor and write a receipt letting me know that we don't have a debt anymore because God says it's canceled. I mean, like this is pure pimps that are here. This is like, this is such pimps that this guy is like, no, actually you owe me money. And I'm going to fuck your fiance. Oh, that is exactly where this

is headed. Of course it is. To talk about what comes next, I'm going to quote again from Holy Rollers. God was now telling Crefield that James should quit work, sell his valuables, including his new automobile, and give the money to Krefield and devote himself to the church. The automobile, one of the first in Corvallis, was obviously something received from Colonel Hans. Either God or Krefield made a mistake, James said, telling God's anointed that he wasn't going to give Krefield another scent. God was mad now, or so said Krefield, who said that God would smite James for this.

So he was not done. Krefield's not done with Barry at the smiting. He decides that if this rich guy is going to state a voted to his carnal possessions, then he certainly doesn't deserve to be married to a woman as godly as mod who by coincidence Krefield wants to have sacks with. So he yeah, I mean, he's known her since she was 14. He tells he tells, yeah, he tells mod. The Lord told me that you have to break off your engagement. And she does, she does this immediately. So after this, he kind of gets high off of this, the fact that like this, he says, hey,

leave your fiance and this one, does it. And so he starts preaching hard, core about personal purity, right? He starts like discussing how he's got this hatred of like the carnal. He tells his followers, flee fornication. Every sin that a man do with is without the body, but he that committed fornication sinneth against his own body.

Are you still in bondage to your carnal nature? Is the old man still living in your heart? Have you still this man-fearing spirit, this something which hinders you from becoming a visitor at all times? Do not be discouraged. God wants to use you, to cleanse you, to purge you from your in-bred sin,

baptize you with fire, and enable you to come up to his commandments to live a holy life. Claim the promise, stand firm upon it and the witness of the spirit will come, and will baptize you with his love and make you a holy man, make you victorious over the world,

the flesh and the devil. Hey, are you trying to fuck my life? I feel like guys, I teach trying to fuck our life. No, okay. Yeah, you can do it. That's what that is. That is how a lot of the men in his coat react at this point. This is when a lot of them start to.

Sure. Of course they do. Cause every any man can see where this is exactly. Yeah, any man is going. I know what you're doing dude. You're trying to fuck my life. Now that is happening at the same time what a lot of these women are doing is like well my husband's terrible at sex and that crefield fucks. That crefield fucks. What? That is the other half of this story, right? So the fact that this works so well seems to kind of have surprised Joshua. And so he immediately decides to double down.

He tells another couple in his flock, Sophie Hartley and Lee Campbell, hey, God wants you to end your engagement declaring, and he declares, he gives a speech where he's like the relation of man to wife is unholy. And as support for this, he cites one Corinthians 7, 1, quote, now concerning the things where have you wrote unto me, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. And again, he means the other men in his flock, right? Right. No, no, no. No, different standards for him, bro.

And the actual, quote, like context of that verse is basically, from the point of the Bible where this is said is like sexual immorality is any sex at all, but since it's inevitable, men and women should get married and fulfill their marital duty, right? Which is not a great message either, in my opinion, but it's not exactly how the Raphael is portraying it. But Raphael's theological

argument is that his followers are going to get closer to God and be holier people by issuing all sex except for the sex that he has to have in order to find the bride of Christ. Right? Unfortunately, the new Joshua isn't able to get this commandment out fast enough to stop all of his followers from getting married. Molly Sandel and Frank Hurt, wed the night before God gets on the heavenly phone line with Joshua. And luckily for them, God, you know, because they're really concerned when they get married

and then he has this revelation like, oh my God, are we out of step with what God wants. And Joshua's like, don't worry, God told me a way that you can still receive the grace of love, right? We just have to perform this. I just have to perform a private ceremony with your wife to endow her with the grace of love. So exactly what happened here. Yeah, it's not 100% clear, but it's described in Holy Rolls is like they retire to his intent and engage in a long church service, right? And we know that afterwards he like kisses all of the women that he does this with, right?

So you can put two and two together, right? As to like what this service is. There are a few couples and a few people who refuse this new change for the cult, and he denounces them all as carnal and of the devil. He makes his followers cut off contact with them, normal cult leaders, right? Yeah. Yeah. So there's also, you know, if you kind of fall out of favor of Joshua and do something he calls carnal, you don't have to leave. There is a way that you can atone, and that is by letting him whip you, right? Now, he does this to men and women, although I think he doesn't more to men than women.

There's a local and contemporary news report that describes when one of Joshua's followers Ed Sharp sneaks into the prophet's tent when he's whipping another man. And he sees the two of them and they mistake him for the devil is what's written in the news article and beat the shit out of him.

Yeah. With the whip man also. Yeah, they both beat the shit out of him and then it adds like fuck this. I'm leaving the cult. Sorry, bro. We thought you were the devil. You stuck on us while you common mistake was whipping him and he was enjoying it. It's all of us.

So it is fairly representative of a large number of male followers of Krafield, who increasingly leave the flock as time goes on and it grows clear that the primary goal of the profits teaching is to let him have sex with every woman in town. When some of his most stalwart male followers bulk, Krafield declares that all of them in the camp save his three lieutenants are fake Christians and now have to be shunned by not like all non-believers Families are split up as a result of this and if it's hard to believe that people would do this You have to remember everyone's spending every waking hour It's been months now praying at the entire time they're awake often for 24 hours in a row

The only food they have is peaches and now they only approve dick is crefield. So like, people are not in the most rational place, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And this is the point in which the outside world, right? And which includes the town of Corvallis starts to get really concerned. The Salvation Army concerned by declining donations and all these defections, sends one of their best soldiers out after the problem. Captain Sh- All Sh- Yeah, this island's about to be invaded by the South. All right, that's right. They send in Captain Charles Brooks,

who has been, he's been a Christian soldier for 11 years. He's recently met General Booth founder of the Salvation Army to like talk this over. And so he like, This guy's got a tactical bell that he's gonna bring to his money. He's like the Liam Mason of the Salvation Army. Except as soon as he arrives, this guy's got a tactical bell that he's going to bring to the Mason of the Salvation Army. Except as soon as he arrives, something happens, right?

Within days of getting there, he like claims in a letter that he was as soon as he gets to the island, the devil approaches him who's in the devil's covered in snakes. And he like sins a bunch of hideous reptiles that like swarm and cover Brooks and quote, as a means of placating his devilish majesty, Brooks tears off his Salvation Army uniform and throws it into the fire. And then announces that he's also a prophet and joins Crefield's flock. Oh hell yes.

This guy saw what was going on and he said said, like, oh, I'm down for this guy. It's highly possible. He's just like, this seems like more fun than the Salvation Army. I see. He shows up at Titty Church. And he's like, I prefer Titty Church. I have another theory too.

So Western Northwest Oregon is where, like, one of the densest places in the world for, like, the natural growth of magic mushrooms, you get a shit. I have a bunch of people pick them all over the place here. And it's been known for a while that we have hallucinogenic mushrooms. I wouldn't be surprised if they were like the Salvation Army guys here. Let's give them some tea, you know?

I wouldn't be shocked if that were a factor in this. Oh, yes. He also could have picked some accidentally and just made himself dripped. Not impossible. He was hungry. The whole like, I hallucinated a lizard man thing. Makes me wonder like, yeah, I hallucinated a lizard man and now I'm also talking to God. That does say, tripping on a little bit like much rooms. Yeah.

So, you know, it's important to note that everything we've been talking about here so far has occurred over the course of the summer of 1903. And if you haven't been here, Oregon has really mild pleasant summers, famously, right? That's something that we are infamous for, especially like Western Oregon. But in the fall, it gets very wet, very fast and also quite cold, right? And so living alone outside naked in an island, not going to be a great call, like come, you know, September, October, it's going to get markedly less pleasant very quickly. So, Maud is able to thankfully invite her prophet and 18 of his most devoted followers into her family home to like wait out the winter. So at this point, Crefield is now back in Corvallis and he has taken a significant chunk of the young women in town

into his cult. He's broken up a bunch of marriages and he has moved what resembles a herm into a family house in town. This is not popular, right? This is going to piss off a number of people. And I'm gonna quote now from offbeat Oregon history author, Finn JD John. Their simple clothing consisted of a plain cloth wrapper, which one source recounts was similar to a bathrobe. The outsider's felt was inadequate to protect female modesty.

And in any case, looked entirely too easy to take off. By itself, the communal living arrangement would have been bad enough. But Crefield's followers combined it with a mania for secrecy that all but invited other community members to fear the worst. Members vanished from their family's lives and do a locked house with barred windows supervised only by the cult leader and his cronies. So, you know, there's a lot of things, small town Oregonians are willing to overlook in neighbors, but not stealing their sisters and wives. And to be in time. Yeah, and making them dress all slurdy.

To be entirely fair to Crefield, that's how these guys viewed it, the men in Corvallis. It's not clear to me that he's stealing anybody, right? Yeah. Most times when we talk about a sex cult, they're pretty profoundly abusive, but the culture is also very abusive to women in this period. And it seems like based on the information we have, the women who join this cult much prefer it to their lives outside of the cult. Yeah, I got to say, from my time visiting, like Portland, not much is changing.

Not much is changing. Yeah. The women there, they still like to be free. I've had brunch at multiple strip clubs there. And I do think a lot of like the portrayal of like this cult is like him being this, he stole all these women. He's ruining the women in town is based on the fact that this is a deeply misogynistic society. And like I think a lot of these women are making potentially, I think it would be reasonable to say, a perfectly rational decision to live a much more pleasant life

with this guy than with their shitty husbands. Yeah, the guy talks good, he's hot, he's got a big hog, and he's like, yeah, do whatever you want. I mean, he's like, he's manipulating them. Yeah, he is absolutely abusive. It's just, it's not clear to me that he is more abusive than the men in town. Right. Yeah, it's the it's an abnormal type of abusive. Sure, but maybe it's just different.

I'm still on an even lesser, but like it I think it's not it's not clear to me that these women are not making the most kind of informed decision they can be making, that this is better than their lives in town. Which doesn't mean he's not also abusive, it's just a bad time, right? Yeah. So, yeah, we're gonna talk about all of that and much more in part two. But before we get into part two,

Matt Leib, you exist on the internet in a variety of places. I am on the internet if you like me and you like watching television shows like the sopranos or the wire. You can listen to pod yourself a gun, which is a sopranos and the wire rewatch podcast. And then once the wire is over, we'll watch another show. So check that out wherever wherever you get your podcasts, and even if you don't watch it or listen to the show,

give us five stars in review, say, hey, that Matt Leeb sure is great. I'm gonna listen to it at some point, but you don't even have to. You don't even have to. But you should. Yeah, but you should. Absolutely should.

You should listen to it, move to an island on to an island with Matt Lee, you know, do it exactly. Dude, move to an island, bring your wife, whatever. Yeah, we'll have. Yeah. And if you are in the donating mood, the Portland Children's Museum could use your help to provide kids all throughout the Portland metropolitan area with educational resources and, yeah, all sorts of fun stuff.

So please text bastards to 501-5-5 if you're in the mood to donate. That's bastards to 501-5-5. And if you, I don't know when this episode's going to come out. So I don't know if the tickets are next week. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no done that at all. No, I always do it. We are gonna be headlining the punchline in Sacramento,

that Sacramento, California, 7 p.m. Sunday, March 17th. If you can't get your tickets, then, you know, just keep that date in mind. And eventually the tickets will go on say, Yeah. So, go to hell. I love you. I love you. then, you know, just keep that date in mind, and eventually the tickets will go on sale. Yeah.

So, go to hell, I love you. Behind the bastards is a production of CoolZone Media. For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Daniel Tosh, host of a new podcast called Tosh Show.

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Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is the greatest murder mystery in American history. That's Rob Breiner, Rob called me, so would Edo Brein, and asked me what I knew about this crime. Well, ask who had the motive to assassinate a sitting president? Then we'll pull the curtain back on the cover-up. The American people need to know the truth. Listen to Who Killed JFK on the iHeart Radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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