Behind the Bastards - Part Three: America's First Fascist Governor

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

Garrison and Robert return to discuss Eugene Talmadge’s takeover of state finances and his fight against the new deal.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Cool Zone Media. Ah! Sophie, one of these days I'm going to do that and it's going to sound like I'm doing another like atonal shriek. But then I'm just going to like jump right into the opening soundtrack from The Lion King and you're going to be fucking amazed. What's so wild is when you did that I was immediately thinking of Lion King. Like I think you're almost there.

I was very close. I was very close. I was thinking of Lion King. Like, I think you're almost there. I was very close, I was very close. I wasn't thinking the Lion King. I'll say it. I'm not afraid, I'm not gonna be censored. Garrison, you grew up with the bad Lion King, not the good one. That's not true, fuck off.

I assume you were raised on the Donald Glover Lion King. No! What a mistake. What a horrible mistake. Why would you ever do another version of that movie? I was an adult with that kid though. What are you talking about? Yeah, Garrison was not born last Thursday. What a horrible mistake. Why would you ever do another version? Born last Thursday, what are we doing? I don't remember when the new Disney movies come out I just know they have off-putting CGI versions of all even working together for four years It's terrible sound right No, it's been four years, Sophie. Well, yeah, slightly longer. I'm going to tell you right now, my mental health is going to plummet the day you're

able to rent a car. That's going to be a disaster for me. It's coming soon. It's coming soon. The Donald Glover Lion King predates us because that was 2019. Okay. All right. All right.

All right. Anyway, welcome to behind the bastards I I guess we have this new cold open thing, which I'm still not super familiar with but It's like a pretty chilly. It's pretty chilly in here. It's pronounced chili garrison and it's it's like Right difference between you know, you you're yeah. Sorry. I don't have an additional bit beyond that, but I got you there nailed it I really set you up for that one. You really did. What are we talking about today, buddy?

Oh, just a normal guy from the 1930s named Eugene Talmadge. Hell yeah, let's get back into it. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski. And we are super excited to tell you about our new show, Dudes on Dudes. We're spilling all the behind-the-scenes stories, crazy details, and honestly, just having a blast talking football.

Every week we're discussing our favorite players of all times, from legends to our buddies to current stars. We're finally answering the age-old question, What kind of dudes are these dudes? We're gonna find out Jules. New episodes drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to dudes on dudes on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13

to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one.

I'm Sheryl Swoops. And I'm Tariqa Foster-Brasby. And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I have no problem going there.

Listen to levels to this with Sheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports Production as women. And T and I have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Smoot and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlamagne the God, for We the People, in audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris,

and you live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeart Radio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back. Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris.

Today at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat station. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 9-1-1, what's your emergency? He said he was gonna kill me. In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. We thought the murders had ended.

But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach. I'll be waiting for you. Listen to the Murder Years, Season 2, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Right where we left off, Gene had his little racism convention

to try to oust FDR, right? He has his eyes set on the presidency. And he also- That was really the only tactic for ousting FDR, was it was racism. Yeah, no, it was. And just straight up shooting workers. Yeah, cause everyone else loved him.

They're like, well, he's not racist enough. Let's try that. Let's see if that works. The other pressing problem for Gene at this junction is that in the previous year, the state failed to secure an appropriations bill. So there's no way for the state's finances to work going into 1936.

And this is kind of Gene's main problem, especially after his little failed racism, racism convention. So at this point, we are, we are kind of early in 1936 and the state does have money. It just has no like legal process to divert or spend that money. So in order to use the cash, Gene needs to convince the treasurer to sign checks on unappropriated funds, which is technically unconstitutional. But by, I would say, creatively interpreting the law, Gene claimed that he could write checks on money appropriated as far back as 1933 using funds that were not paid in full. He also requested that various state departments hold on to their tax collections

or just give them directly to Gene and fully bypass the treasury. So this was his plan to kind of hold on to money. Now, unfortunately for Gene, the treasurer had already begun receiving tax payments from the various state departments. And by February 13th, the state had begun to run out of operating funds. Now days later, Jean proclaimed that the state would have the exact same appropriations bill as in 1935, arguing that since the legislature already approved that budget, it was thus legal indefinitely, which is not just not how state budgets work. Now the treasurer was of the opinion that this whole affair was was veering on unconstitutionality and he was worried.

Garrison, I need you to say that word again. OK, all right. It's a long. It's a lot of syllables in here. Unconstitution unconstitutionality is unconstitutionality. OK, OK. OK. Unconstitutionality. That's probably a word. Yeah, it's mostly a word. It was it was he was scared it was unconstitutional. It's mostly a word.

I'm pretty sure this is a word, Sophie. You've no. I'm so tired, I'm so tired, I can't, I can't. It's a word, unconstitutionality. That's a word. Robert and I are both so fucking tired, you can just tell. According to the Cornell Law Institute. So there you go.

Shout out Cornell. My grandma went there. Now the treasurer, a guy named George Hamilton, was also worried that Talmadge might just try to personally seize all the state's cash kept in banks around the state, possibly with millions falling into the direct control of Jean. So, Treasurer Hamilton asked FDR to secure state bonds in federal vaults so that Jean couldn't legally access them, and FDR was apparently happy to make life harder for Eugene Talmage. I'm going to quote from Jean's biography by William Anderson, quote, The treasurer carefully drilled his staff on what to do in the event he was thrown out of office.

They were to remove all collateral bonds and cash from state vaults, set an eight hour time lock on the empty vault and run for the Federal Reserve and the local banks where they were to deposit both cash and bonds. Speed was essential because of the closeness of the treasurers and the governor's office, unquote. Oh man. because of the closeness of the treasurers and the governor's office, unquote. She's like, they were basically had their offices just across the hallway. So they-

You know what we don't have enough of in modern politics is capers, you know? There is, there's some good capers. Not nearly enough capers. That's a caper, yeah. There's some good capers in this episode. So, speaking of capers, I love bagels. Now Talmadge wanted to test his own power by asking the school superintendent, a guy named MD Collins, and the asylum warden to

put in requests for money, pressuring the treasurer to write the checks. Now the treasurer caught word of this ahead of time and not wanting to be caught denying funds to schools and mental patients, he contacted the superintendent ahead of time and made secret arrangements to send him into hiding, putting him up in an Atlanta hotel. So as expected, Gene went looking for the superintendent and was quite pissed when he just couldn't find him anywhere in the city. Again, what happened to Capers? and was quite pissed when he just couldn't find him anywhere in the city. Again, what happened to Capers? Why don't we do this anymore? All we have now is like fascism

and very disappointing governors. I want to Capers, Tim Walz, go steal the Declaration of Independence, you know? Get out there. They didn't have like cell phones. They didn't have like cell phones. They didn't have like email. You can't you couldn't send like official requests digitally. So you have to actually you have to you have to actually find a guy.

And then it was very easy to just put put someone in a basement and keep them there. Yeah, just keep someone hiding in a hotel in downtown Atlanta. And you're just like, can't find us. No, they might as well be on the fucking moon. Yeah. So on February 20th, as Jean was still looking for Mr. Collins, the comptroller and the treasurer publicly announced that they would not be signing checks for the governor, claiming his proclamation was invalid, setting a grandfather clause, which avoided the old unspent appropriations and declared this now a constitutional battle. The press had basically all turned on Jean at this point, tired from his antics.

An Atlanta constitution headline read, the governor's illegal attempt at dictatorship. Now, four years later. You got to have some respect for a title that tells it like it is. There's some, there's some pretty good like 1930s headlines that we're going to get to today. Yeah, journalists made a comfortable income and had support staff and stuff back then. So yeah. Now, four days later, Jean wrote an executive order firing Comptroller Harrison and a Treasurer

Hamilton, both of whom declared that they would have to be literally thrown out of office. I'm going to quote from Anderson again. Quote, this tactic was designed to make Jean look militaristic, a bully, a dictator who ruled not by law, but by force. Since Jean's martial law order from September of 1934 was still in effect, that's like a year and a half later, he just had the state under martial law for like a year and a half. He had the National Guard at his disposal. Upon hearing the men would not leave, he ordered the adjunct general Lindley Camp, who had been waiting for this, to take a couple of plainclothes men and get Harrison out of his

office. It was early in the morning. Camp was not a violent man. He asked Harrison politely, but firmly, to leave. You're no longer Comptroller and you'll have to leave this office, Camp said. Harrison, seated behind his desk, looked disappointed that no armed force had shown up. He asked, where are the soldiers?

Camp leaned long over the desk and drawled, I'm some soldiers. Harrison got up and quietly left. I'm some soldiers? Incredible, incredible. I'm some soldiers. Incredible, incredible. I'm some soldiers, it's pretty good. There's not all of the Riz in every single elected leader in the country right now,

doesn't add up to that line. I'm sorry. We just, we don't have that kind of, we don't have that kind of juice anymore. Oh. Treasure Hamilton put up, Sobi. I was just gonna say, it's the quietly getting up and leaving for me.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so jealous. You can't respond to that. You just have to get up and leave. No, no, no. You've lost. You've lost that engagement.

It's time to just leave the room. Now, Hamilton, the treasurer, put up a bit more of a fight, at least according to Gene's assistant, Henry Sperlin, who recounted the ordeal, quote, I went in in fan Hamilton sitting at his desk. I told him he would have to leave his office at once. He pulled a large pistol out and placed it on the desk and said, my favorite, my favorite negotiating tactic. It's good. He said, I am constitutionally elected to this office and I have the means to protect it.

You just convinced me to run for office. Because man, that would be fun. That would feel good. That would feel good. Continuing from Sperlin, quote, I turned around and went back across the hall to the governor's office and told him that George had a big pistol on the desk and was refusing to leave.

Gene blew up and- Knowing the times, that was like a 38. Gene blew up and started yelling for the adjunct general at the top of his lungs, Lindley, Lindley, Lindley! About that time, the adjunct general came walking through the door and said, keep quiet, governor, I heard you

all the way across the street So the adjunct general along with some some soldiers went into Hamilton's office and Literally picked him up out of his chair and while being carried out of his office Hamilton yelled to his assistants who were running around with the last of the treasury's bonds in cash. Wow. Anderson says that the guardsmen just thought they were- We took a wrong turn in this country. We took a wrong turn in this country.

This is so much more exciting. We used to do it right. That's a democracy you can be proud of, right? When you're reading about shit like that in the news. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Now Anderson says that the guardsmen thought his assistants were just like running from the Capitol in fear.

When in actuality, they were taking the last of the state's money to be deposited in FDR's federal vaults. So after Hamilton was removed from the Capitol, he contacted the bank telling him that he was still in fact the legal treasurer, instructed them to not pay out any money, and told the post office to not deliver any mail directed to the treasurer to Jean's new replacement, a guy named Toby Daniel.

And the post office complied with this. I guess people just liked Hamilton. I'm going to quote from Anderson here, quote, it had been a long and busy day in the state government, a day which ended in total confusion about who controlled what Hamilton was seen just before dark attacking his nameplate and title on a door across town as Jean prepared to move on the state vaults unquote. I just like that a treasurer Hamilton just set up his own like fake office across town, be like, you know, I'm obviously still the treasurer.

I'm going to make myself my own office. So the next day, Gene's new treasurer, Toby Daniel, went to the vaults and he found them sealed shut with this eight hour time lock. Gene was never known as a patient man, so he ordered locksmiths to cut open the safe with gas torches. As soldiers stood guard, men cut open the vaults to find nothing. They were completely empty.

Oh, that's fun. That's a good, God damn. It's a good image. Yeah. Eugene Talmadge with a cigar and some soldiers looking at people cut open a vault with gas torches to find nothing inside. Do his best to roll though.

Yeah, no, it's like, it's a fantastic caper. So Gene was extremely upset at this. Oh really? And he sent- He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would take that in the spirit of good, fair play. No, no, no. He sent Toby Daniel to the Fulton National Bank

to cash out 100 grand, but the bank refused to honor the check. Every sequence of events left Gene just getting more and more pissed. He wrote in angry letters to the bank president telling him that the bank would have to now pay 7% interest on the state's $900,000. And if they didn't wanna deliver cash to Toby Daniel, the governor's executive assistant would be authorized to accept the state's $900,000, and if they didn't want to deliver cash to Toby

Daniel, the governor's executive assistant would be authorized to accept the state's money. The bank continued to refuse to hand over any cash, saying that it was the quote-unquote unanimous decision of the council of all the clearinghouse banks that they could not feel entirely safe until there had been some judicial determination over the question of the state's financial situation. To quote Anderson here, quote, Hamilton's strategy had worked. Gene exploded in anger, turning his fury erroneously on the legislature and the federal government. He said a clique in the House of Representatives had hatched a plot a year earlier in Washington

trying to force the state to call an extra session to drain off money, and force Gene to raise taxes. He said the mess was deliberately brought on by the New Deal." Now, the Georgia Constitution required that the treasurer be bonded before assuming office, but no local bonding company wanted to be anywhere near this shit show. But Gene's friend, John Whit Whitley found an insurance company all the way in Fort Scott, Kansas that would bond Toby Daniel for $300,000. Gene asked the highway board chairman, a guy named Mr. Wilbur, to put up $65,000, which he quite reluctantly agreed to, and John Whitley covered the rest. Gene's L-streak continued when it was learned just days later that $17 million in federal road funds were being held

because Gene spent $3 million of this money on other state expenses, which not allowed, not cool. You can't do that. I mean, I feel like you should be able to do whatever you can get away with as the governor, right? Like that ought to be the rule. It's like cheating at poker, right? As long as they don't catch you in the act, you're good.

The problem is that they always caught him. That was the problem. Yeah, that is an issue. And George Hamilton at this point was promising to fight to the last to see that the law shall rule and not a tyrannical despot who has gone mad with egotism. Now, according to the Atlanta Journal, 36 out of 44 state papers were now against Talmich

with the Gainesville Eagle writing, he has out heralded Herod in a despotic dictatorial action that transcends the throttling of Louisiana by Huey Long. Anderson writes, a survey of newspapers from across the state reflected the shock and repulsion many had felt for this latest example of Talmadge enforcing his will. The Cordell dispatch worried, he's going to be worse than Hitler or Mussolini, which isn't true. That's not, this is 1936.

You got to get at this point in 2024, we can confidently say not as bad as either of those guys. The Cornell dispatch debunked, sorry, your prediction was wrong? It would have been pretty funny if like his term had ended with the United States Marines occupying Atlanta, like just bombing it to craters. Yeah, so that one has been debunked. Their 1936 prediction did not did not come to pass

It's a tragic tragic situation the Columbia's inquirer wrote that he is a quote Paper mache dictator a sort of amusing political clown who slipped into the governor's office during the storm of the depression Which is I would say is more accurate governor's office during the storm of the Depression, which is, I would say is more accurate. The Brunswick News asked how long Georgia would have to be quote, misruled by this crazy governor who suffers hallucinations of grandeur and imaginary greatness. Gene's answer to all of that was that this was a political plot to keep him off the campaign trail, saying, this invasion of states rights can hold me in Georgia, but the new deal is going to be defeated this year.

So at this point, Roosevelt's supporters were trying to get the state Democratic chairman Hugh Howell to call for a presidential primary to further embarrass Jean during the financial crisis and add to the pressure facing Talmadge. But Howell and Talmadge knew what was up and didn't take the bait, especially since Roosevelt was absolutely dominating talmadge in even like the most like rural polls. He was not very popular during this whole financial crisis. On the first of March, the third month into this crisis, Jean met with all the banks and asked for the state's money to be released, which they again denied. Anderson notes, quote, It was the kind of request he did not like to make, particularly since they refused him. He stormed out saying he would scorch the bankers. His plan was to write checks to pay for school bills. If the bankers refused to honor them, public pressure would be directed away from

Jean. It didn't work, unquote. So in response to this, Jean, quote unquote, fired the banks, and the bank's attorney asked the Fulton Superior Court to rule on which treasurer could legally sign checks. Gene filed a lawsuit with the post office for not delivering the treasurer's mail to Daniel and Daniel filed a lawsuit in a lower court against Hamilton in hopes that would force them to reveal where the collateral bonds were being kept as still nobody could find where they were. So by this point, all of the business leaders were calling for a special legislative session to end this crisis.

The editor of the Constitution, the newspaper, privately promised a glowing editorial of Jean if he called for a special session to pass an appropriations bill, prompting other papers to do the same, with Gene then emerging from this crisis as a hero. But the editor warned that if Gene refused to call a session, the newspaper would do everything in its power to get him impeached. The majority of the state Senate signed a petition-

Imagine a newspaper having any juice at all in an election. At this point, the Atlanta Constitution- Incomprehensible period of time. At this point, the Atlanta Constitution- In an incomprehensible period of time. At this point, like this specific paper held a great deal of power in the state. Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, that used to be, there were a lot of papers that were powered both like regionally and in the cut.

Like it's just, we're in a completely different media situation now. Nowadays, the AJC is still like an influential paper in like city and state politics in Georgia, but it's not what it was in the 1930s. No one, you would not have, I mean, it'd be fascinating to see someone try, but like an editor go out and say like,

we will write you a great editorial if you carry out this policy, right? Like to actually do like- But if you don't, we're gonna get you impeached. Yeah, like that's just a completely different planet in terms of print media influence. At this point, a majority of the Senate signed a petition pleading for a special session,

but Gene claimed that there was no emergency, thus no reason to call for a special session. And on March 14th, the court ruled that neither Hamilton nor Daniel could withdraw money that had not been appropriated, but did not yet rule on which man was the legal treasurer. When Jean tried to get checks written on oil tax money, a judge legally prohibited money from being paid out to the new comptroller, and on March 18th, the oil companies threatened

to withhold their tax payments until Jean removed their monetary liability. To quote Anderson, quote, the next day Hamilton asked the courts to adjudge him as treasurer and the state's labor leaders sought an injunction against Daniel. On March 23, the state revenue commissioner quit. By the end of that week, Gene had bought radio time to defend his actions and explain his reasons for fighting FDR. On air, he said he was no dictator, but that he had no alternative but to run the state's finances in order to feed the sick and the insane." Unquote.

He's not bad at spin, you know? Unfortunately, I think that probably would work today on a disappointing number of the people in this country. Yeah, people are very susceptible to dictators, as I'm sure everyone who's been looking at politics the past eight years is well aware. The financial crisis neared its end starting April 11th when four out of the six judges overseeing the case disqualified themselves by having affiliations

with the banks. Now this was Gene's saving grace as it was his legal duty to replace the judges. So he just picked four of his friends. And a month later, the judges formally ruled in Gene's favor five to 1. The banks released the money, Hamilton returned the collateral bonds hidden in the federal vaults, and the flow of federal highway funds went back to the state. Talmadge supporters were ecstatic. His secretary,

Carlton Mobley, later said, quote, The man was unbelievable. We used to all worry like hell when he'd get himself into these situations There would seem no possible way he could come out on top and then at the darkest moment He would land on his feet unquote So that is how Jean Navigated this little this little financial crisis and some and somehow came out on top Do you know what also likes topping? Well, Garrison.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm gonna correct you there because when Sophie and I started this podcast, we had our big brainstorming session. Whoa, whoa, whoa, where are we going here now? We were working out what we were going to accept from advertisers. And I remember it was like hour eight or nine,

we're both sitting across the big table at the office and we both turn at the same time and said only bottoms, you know? And that's been our guiding principle in terms of advertisers from the beginning here, you know? That's really our only standard. We'll take ExxonMobil, clear bottom. We wouldn't take British Petroleum, that's a top, obviously. We wouldn't take ExxonMobil.

We would take ExxonMobil. No, we wouldn't. Send us some money, guys. They've tried. Chevron? They've tried. That's a switch. Chevron's a clear switch.

We're not taking them. No. That was Chevron that asked us to do it. It was both. It was both. It was both? We've gotten requests from both to do sustainability campaigns for both those companies.

Yeah. And we do turn sustainability campaigns for both those companies. We do turn down money people. Not often, but we do. Yeah, no. I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image and huge life transformations. I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine.

I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately started with everything but me. It took years for me to break that, like years of work. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Trust me, you won't want to miss this one. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gronkowski.

Guess what, folks? We're teammates again. And we're going to welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude, and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're going to highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past. And we're just going to sit here and talk about them.

And we'll get into the types of dudes. What kind of types of dudes are there, girls? We got studs, wizards. We got freaks or dudes, dude. We got dogs. Dog. We'll break down their games. We'll share some insider stories and determine what kind of dude each of these dudes are. Is Randy Moss a stud or a freak? Is Tom Brady a dog or a dude's dude? We're gonna find out Jules. New episodes

drop every Thursday during the NFL season. Listen to dudes on dudes on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Cheryl Swoops, WNBA champ, three-time Olympian and basketball hall of famer. I'm a mom and I'm a woman. I'm Tariqa Foster-Brasby, journalist, sports reporter, basketball analyst, a wife, and I'm also a woman.

And on our new podcast, we're talking about the real obstacles women face day to day. See, athlete or not, we all know it takes a lot as women to be at the top of our game. We want to share those stories about balancing work and relationships, motherhood, career shifts. You know, just all the s*** we go through.

Because no matter who you are, there are levels to what we experience as women. And T and I, well, we have no problem going there. Listen to Levels to This with Cheryl Swoops and Tariqa Foster-Brasby, an iHeart Women's Sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Elf Beauty, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlamagne the God, for We the People, an audio town hall where Vice President Kamala Harris and you live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeart Radio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue,

but America, we are not going back. Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Today at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat station. They stroll in like regular shoppers. Did it ever occur to you that all these crazy shoplifting stories are actually connected?

An eight million dollar retail theft ring. I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair. To connect the dots and expose this secret world. It's 100% human trafficking. So you can make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting? Yeah. But she's just% human trafficking. So you can make $1,000 a day shoplifting? Yeah. But she's just a worker bee.

I actually confront the real shoplifting queen herself. Just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff. No, I have no comment. A mother of three orchestrating all her crimes from a secluded hilltop mansion. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now. I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now. I hear the cops.

Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops. Listen to Queen of the Con, season six, The California Girls on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Gosh, if I was one of those California girls, I'd be sweating.

Okay, we are so back. Man, George is doing great right now. We just had a massive chemical fire which makes my throat feel terrible. And I still have to read through 3,000 words. I made this comment the other day, but you're really a southerner when the town you live in has been blanketed and poisoned because a chemical factory has exploded because it got bought by a private equity company who then gutted the operations staff and completely fucked all of the safety procedures.

The air is terrible. I lived in West and it was the same thing where like they had a fire, they had not, like they were reliant upon like a volunteer firefighting team that had not been properly trained in chemical fires. They put water on said fire and it exploded and wiped out the whole fire department.

Yeah, yeah. Georgia strong right now. We're really hanging in there. You guys, no, I was looking at the map of where all of the chlorine gas is going to be tomorrow as it wafts into down south. It sucks. It sucks.

It sucks. I woke up today with my throat being on fire. All right. Now, Gene was still eyeing up an office in Washington as he couldn't run a third consecutive term as governor. But as Gene observed just near total widespread support for FDR, he got too afraid to directly challenge the man and backed down. As a backup plan, Gene was considering a run as George's favorite son to stoke a brokered convention but only if Roosevelt did poorly in the primary.

But Roosevelt ran completely unopposed in the primary and basically won the presidency by default, ending Gene's presidential ambitions. To quote Anderson here, what seemed like a year-long camouflage chase after the presidency came to a sputtering end. On Wednesday, June 17th, the State Executive Committee met to choose Roosevelt delegates for the national convention and to witness the political death of Gene Talmadge. Not to be upstaged, the corpse came striding briskly through the lobby, grinning broadly, shaking hands and slapping backs.

As he moved through the crowded lobby, one man refused to shake his hand, saying sullenly he didn't want to meet any new acquaintances that day. The explosive Talmage called the refusal an insult and ordered the man to remove his glasses. Gene's instant fury betrayed his real feelings over the meeting. A melee ensued between the man and Gene's entourage, scattering people over the lobby. Gene was pushed away from the scuffling and it ended quickly." Unquote.

That's sad. A good old fashioned state democratic fist fight. Love to see it. Yeah. Again, we need, like if the VP debate last night had involved a fist fight, for one thing, I do think Walls would have very clearly won that one. He would have won

Yeah, JD J. D. Vance obviously probably is an endurance edge. He's much younger man, but JD Vance There's no way he's ever been hit in the face He should have been Anyway, I I support this we need to we need to return now with the presidency beyond genes grasp He decided to challenge the popular Richard Russell for his seat in the US Senate. Meanwhile, the long term Talmadge loyalist Hugh Howell was hoping to succeed Gene as governor once Gene announced his run for the Senate. Howell made statements in the press talking about how he could continue Gene's legacy and was dropping hints for Gene to endorse him. But Gene eventually broke the news that he was instead backing his personal friend

Charles Redwine. And how it was quite upset that Jean was unwilling to return any political favors and was caught in a weird place since how will still wish to kind of remain in the Talmadge orbit. But in doing so, it was inhibiting his progress as a politician. More on him later. Now Jean threw another one of his big like kickoff barbecue rallies in McRae on July 4th, where he announced red wine for governor and his run for the Senate, unveiling his platform to quote unquote, protect Georgia, which included outlawing

a national debt, cutting the federal budget to under a billion dollars, removing members of the cabinet who try to change our form of government, which I think is like an anti-communist thing. Yeah, it may have something to do too with like voting rights. Yes, yes, because that becomes a big thing later on when the federal government was pushing for like no more white only primaries. And he also pushed for like, you know, other like laissez faire capitalist policies. Now, Jean finished his rally by symbolically passing the governor's torch by gifting Red Wine his own trademark red suspenders. To quote Anderson, quote, those suspicious that Talmadge had become a living political party

were interested to see if the voter loyalty could now be so manipulated. Could Jean project his authority onto others? Unquote. could now be so manipulated. Could Gene project his authority onto others, unquote. Now, this is a question I've certainly had regarding what will happen to the Republicans in 2028, depending on how this next election goes. How are they gonna survive up a post-Trump party? Will Trump be able to pass his authority onto someone else

or will this go in a completely new direction? That's certainly been a question on my mind. Now, this same day, state senator and KKK member Ed Rivers announced his candidacy for governor running on the most liberal platform in the state's history, which he called the Little New Deal. So despite being in some ways economically progressive for white people, he was like all these guys, just insanely racist. Gene decided just to do one speech a week while Russell mounted an intense statewide campaign to keep his Senate seat away from Governor Talmage, branding Gene as a traitor to the Democratic Party for his previous, like, you know, race, racism convention and

all of his appeals against FDR. This campaign was essentially gene against both the state and the national democratic parties. Jean had no campaign manager, he had no headquarters, and was opposing both the state and the national party. He was set to make a campaign stop in Monroe, Georgia, the site of the strikes last year that Jean suppressed with concentration camps and the National Guard. The union workers were planning to make Gene know just how welcome he was with a good old fashioned egg throwing, which God, we should bring back.

Now, word of the egg throwing. In Australia, they've been doing it, or at least they were for a while. We, yes, there's been some in the UK as well, but I guess like milkshaking has kind of become the new egg throwing. Yeah, yeah, I mean it did for a while. I feel like that stopped bringing all the boys to the yard

a while ago. Sad. Yeah, it's tragic. Now, word of this made its way to Jean and the National Guard arrived early to secure the area. The rumor was that 125 armed men came down from Atlanta, with locals witnessing carloads of strangers arriving carrying pistols. Lindley Camp denied that the guardsmen were sent, saying that it was actually local boys armed from the area who volunteered to keep the peace.

But the police chief claimed otherwise and saying that they were in fact guardsmen from Atlanta. Whatever the case, to the union workers, Governor Chalmage had once again invaded their town with armed goons to do his bidding. Like this level of like security for a politician was uncommon for the time. It's kind of more normalized now, but back then this was like really odd.

It is interesting the degree to which Americans had to be taught that you could shoot your politicians Like we learned that very rapidly and then things had to change Yeah, I mean wasn't if I remember correctly wasn't Huey longshot. I think long was shot And they might have been she then we might have two attempts on him But yeah, I think he was I think he survived at least one. Let's double check that though. Yeah No, he was he was assassinated. Yeah, so like yeah and like for Jean, because of how much the security was uncommon for the time, it certainly did damage his reputation as like a wannabe military dictator.

Although kind of now we are we are very used to this type of security. Now, during during the Senate race, the recently promoted editor at the Constitution, a guy named Ralph McGill, who later became a prominent anti-segregationist journalist, he began writing about Gene's relationship with John Whitley, the highway construction guy, and insinuated some kind of unethical financial arrangement between the two regarding highway construction contracts. Now, twice that summer, John Whitley found McGill at campaign events and brutally beat him to a bloody pulp while threatening to kill the man if he didn't stop writing about him and Gene. Just kicking McGill on the ground, dragging his body around in the dirt, and smashing his head into hard columns in a hotel lobby. It was pretty grisly stuff.

To quote Whitley, quote, I beat the lion bastard until I got tired I'd rest then beat him some more till he was bleeding good then I told him McGill next time I see you I'm gonna have a pistol and I'm gonna kill the hell out of you unquote Which you could just it's it's good to know that anti that anti journalist violence does yeah does go back far We really mean that you're not really doing your job as a journalist if if people aren't saying that kind of thing about you occasionally. Yeah. Anderson writes that McGill wasn't too badly hurt in the kerfuffles, but he was energized and quote unquote returned to his typewriter with a vengeance unquote, which yeah, that

yeah, that makes sense. Return to his typewriter with a vengeance. This race, Gene was kind of forced into playing political defense for one of the first times in his career. Russell would go after Gene for using racism to distract from his otherwise empty politics, saying, when a politician runs out of arguments, knows that in the minds of the people he is convicted of pure cusiness in keeping the old people of Georgia from getting their pensions, then he comes hollering N-word, N-word, N-word. Gene responded by saying, quote, you hear false interpretations in my service to you.

Russell says I go around yelling N-word. Well, I don't believe in sending Negroes down here to rule over the white people, unquote. Which is not really refuting what Russell is saying. No, you are not killing those rumors. And like, it's, again, this is, everyone's racist at this time. Russell was also a raging racist. He was a segregationist, right?

Like, he just didn't like how Gene was kind of not very classy about it. Yeah. He was so like, like open and like brash. Russell was also a racist guy, but he, he wanted politics to be something other than just blaming black people for everything. Um, like that, that, that is where the bar was at this point. Now in August, senior Senator George Walter joined the Russell campaign in an effort to finally beat Talmadge and the backward politics he represented. By mid-August, Hugh Howell was refusing

to campaign with Jean, and one of the first to join team Talmadge, Lamar Mardoe from McRae, had become an advisor to Ed Rivers in the governor's race. Jean was bleeding support and losing allies. Now, the two candidates agreed to some kind of back-to-back speech showdown

on August 26th. The 30 high school girls escorted Russell onto stage in parody of Gene's platoon of armed guards. Anderson writes, quote, Russell thought he'd already saw the tide turning when farmers began taking off their red suspenders at his speeches and symbolically laying them at his feet unquote. Russell addressed Talmadge as old Republican Jean. And this is where we start to really see like this is the beginning of the Southern Democratic Party

stopping being Democrats, right? Like like FDRs forced liberalization and people like Talmadge, these kind of old demagogues who are like Democratic Party men are becoming more like the Northern conservative Republicans. So like I think Eugene Talmadge is kind of like the is one of the last of these like we like Southern Democrats and a lot of his politics very clearly paved the way for the Democratic Party to kind of split away and do this like kind of fabled like swap, right? Where most of these kinds of supporters

would later in like 10, 20 years be voting Republican, even though they forever had always been Democrats. Yeah, yep. I mean, this is the beginning of, I don't know if it's the end, but it's the beginning of our current hell, right? This is where it all starts and it all starts because people were like, what if black folks got to enjoy some of the benefits of the social safety net that we're constructing in this

country? Old Republican Gene. Yep. So, Russell came with a list of questions that he demanded Gene answer when it was his turn to take the stage. They were mostly about how his programs would actually help people and how he would get money to help farmers with his ultra conservative economic plans. But upon taking the stage, Gene immediately discarded these questions saying, quote, it

would take a Philadelphia lawyer all day to answer them, unquote, which I think is an amusing old timey remark. The Russell staff took this day as a victory for their candidate, and Gene later actually agreed. On the second to last day of the race, a massive fistfight broke out at his rally in Dalton, Georgia. From the podium, Gene tried to stop people from breaking up the fight, saying, don't pay any attention to them, the Talmadge boys can whip them. Let them fight it out. About half the crowd was listening to Gene's speech. The other half were in this ongoing brawl.

The local deputy sheriff was severely beaten by five of Gene's National Guardsmen and then had all of them arrested. Really loved to see cop on cop violence. At the end of his speech, the open melee was still raging on, and Governor Talmadge quickly left town. Come election day, Jean lost in a massive landslide, one of the biggest in the state's history.

Jean carried only 16 counties to Russell's 143 and was beat 2-1 in the popular vote. The governor's race had very similar results with the New Deal candidate Ed Rivers beating Talmadge Stooge Redwine by over 100,000 votes. Longtime Talmadge man Tom Linder lost his race for agricultural commissioner. And George Hamilton, the treasurer, got his revenge by just utterly destroying Toby Daniel in the election that Daniel even lost his street that he lived on in La Grange, according to William Anderson. To quote Anderson, it had come to be said that Gene Talmadge had a guaranteed vote of 100,000. And that statement rang true. To 100,000 Georgians, Gene Talmadge was almost

a deity. His hold was hypnotic and unshakable on this core constituency. But while his stand against the New Deal did not affect the vote of his own constituency, it lost the election because of the fact that it had on the swing vote. Though the bifactional electorate, either for or against Jean, seemed stronger than ever, in undecided 100,000 or so votes swung the election. This swing group was not polarized for or against Jean. And these voters cannot be placed in a particular group that had a predictable behavior. Most of them were simply convinced that the New Deal was helping

them more than hurting them. Another influential factor was the high voter turnout, the largest in Georgia's history. Jean drew from a hardcore group and the numbers did not fluctuate much above a hundred and forty thousand. The wealthy and the very poor had once again combined for Gene, but he had lost the labor vote which was growing and also much of the middle class." I find this kind of political breakdown to be quite interesting, both how even still we find conservatives are able to get both the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor to vote for them in a counterintuitive way.

And Gene and how Gene had this like very hardcore group of supporters that viewed him as like a god and would vote for him regardless of like anything. But he did lose in the swing vote. Now, as for the governor's race, Gene was able to pass off his hardcore supporters to Red Wine, getting over 120,000 of these votes. But he completely failed to attract any of the 100,000 anti-Talmadge voters and was unable to move any of the important swing voters to Red Wine on his anti-New Deal Talmadge-inspired platform. Gene's grip on the state Democratic Party was slipping and he had begun to lose

to the New Deal. So for the first time in over 10 years, in 1937, Gene was out of a government job. He now spent his time building his cattle herd, doing little speaking engagements, and using his newspaper, The Statesman, to project his message across Georgia as he planned his next move. His eyes were still set on the Senate, but this time on the even more respected senior senator, Walter George. Anderson writes, those who questioned Jean's good judgment in 36 questioned his sanity in 1938. Unquote. Basically, George was like the archetypal respected elder statesman. Going against him was like crazy. Luckily, Gene brought his 25-year-old

son Herman Talmage to serve as campaign manager, who actually did grow to be a pretty good political navigator. His new 1938 platform differed from his previous bouts against the New Deal. Instead of using vague nostalgic rhetoric pointing towards the old ways, this time Gene sought to address the consequences of the New Deal as he saw them, attack the new big institutions, and uplift the little guy. He called for a migration back to farms, and promised to stop government waste by using federal relief money to buy land to give to citizens willing to farm it, and to convert the civilian conservation camps into vocational education campuses to provide practical job oriented training in contrast to the frivolous liberal universities. Another, another conservative

mainstay. His campaign speeches this year were described as like increasingly protectionist, isolationist, nationalist, and much more populist. We're getting closer to like the full breakout of World War II. Yeah. And Gene was pretty, pretty firmly like an isolationist and a nationalist. Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that. I mean, yep. Yeah, it's entirely unsurprising. Yeah. Talmadge tried to frame Senator George as a traitor to small farmers, particularly because of his support of coconut milk. That was one of the main ways he attacked George as betraying U.S. dairy farmers.

Now, Gene wasn't the only guy targeting Senator George, though. FDR was increasingly beefing with the southern wing of the party, and by the late 1930s he sought to unseat some of the old guards from the Senate that were inhibiting progress. Senator George was a particularly influential member of this group, and so FDR targeted him for removal. Not many Georgia Democrats wanted to go up against the popular senator, but the Roosevelt Dems finally settled on Russell's 1934 campaign manager, a man named Lawrence Camp to take on George. FDR made this really confusing public appearance with Senator George in early August, where Roosevelt delivered a quite polite attack on his personal friend George,

calling him a fake liberal and dismissed Talmadge as no kind of real concern and then endorsed Lawrence Camp. FDR, we don't make them like that anymore. No, you invite your friend to like a campaign event and then you just spend the day attacking him? Just shit talk him, just rat fuck him. It's really good. FDR was maybe our most effective rat fucker president. He really knew how to rat fuck a man. He didn really good. FDR was maybe our most effective rat fucker president. He really knew how to rat fuck a man.

He didn't care. He didn't care. No, he didn't give a shit. No. That's the benefit of dying of polio is you don't give a round fuck. Gene tried to weaponize this speech to discredit George and brushed aside Kemp as like a coat tell writer

and an un-serious candidate. Now, Roosevelt's strategists were worried that his campaign against George might give Talmadge the election. But that outcome didn't really concern FDR. He thought that even if Talmadge got in the Senate, Gene would just make a fool out of himself. The problem with George was that he was influential. If he went a certain way, 40 other senators would follow suit. Talmadge, on the other hand, was unlikely to attract followers in the Senate. And Gene was quite happy with what he saw as liberal infighting, and became even more certain that it would lead to his victory in the county unit vote, with the liberal vote being split now three ways. As long as his hardcore of 100,000 supporters went out to vote, he saw no way for him to lose.

I'm going to quote from Anderson here on this kind of anecdote about what the what the southern voter was thinking about going into the 1938 election. Quote, one old fence sitter in Warm Springs told a reporter he was voting for Senator Talmadge, Governor Rivers and President Roosevelt. Quote, Talmadge is promising 40 acres of land. Rivers promises to exempt it from taxation and Roosevelt will rent it from us. Why not vote for all of them and sit on the porch and collect a steady income, unquote.

Okay. So they'll be voting very, it's like, they're totally fine voting for conservative Talmadge and progressive FDR. Like that's totally fine. And the policies can actually work in conjunction just to help these like guys eating up all the slant. Do you know what I enjoy eating up, Robert?

Well, Garrison, I've heard some rumors, but- I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Oh my God. I don't, I absolutely not. Jesus Christ. Remember that meal we had during the DNC where there was a literal metal screw in your food? Yes.

Oh, I remember that, yeah. Do you remember that riot where afterwards I got us like $200 worth of Popeyes because we were all so depressed? I think it happened a few times. We had a lot of really late night Chinese food and a lot of Popeyes. Oh man.

Oh, the good old days. The good old days. So we have a term that Garroth likes to eat foods with literal metal screws in them and Popeyes, got it. And of course these products and services are supporting the podcast. Oh yeah. Oh we got so many free drinks over that screw, that was great. We services. Oh, we got drinks over that screw. That was great Drinks over that screw. They were really

Really worried someone was like a tagger a fight attacking these DNC journalists God I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Rob Gran Kowski. Guess what folks? We're teammates again and we're gonna welcome you guys all to Dudes on Dudes. I'm a dude, you're a dude and Dudes on Dudes is our brand new show. We're gonna highlight players, peers, guys that we played against, legends from the past and we're just gonna sit here

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My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. We talk about guilt, shame, body image and huge life transformations.

I was a desperate delusional dreamer and the desperate part got me in a lot of trouble. I encourage delusional dreamers. Be a delusional dreamer. Just don't be a desperate delusional dreamer. I just had such an anger. I was just so mad at life. Everything that wasn't right was everybody's fault but mine. I had such a victim mentality. I took zero accountability for anything in my life. I was the kid that if you asked what happened, I immediately

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It's been 30 years since the horror began. 9-1-1, what's your emergency? Someone, he, he said he was gonna kill me. Three decades since our small beach community was terrorized by a serial killer. Maybe, my dear Courtney, we're not done after all. In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino beach became the hunting ground of a monster. No one was safe. No one could stop it.

Police spun their wheels. Politicians spun the truth while fear gripped us tighter with every body that was found. We thought it was over. We thought the murders had ended. But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach, Courtney. Come home. I'll be waiting for you.

Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Okay, we are so back Come election day early results gave Talmadge a small lead stop the count stop the count but Gene's initial celebration was premature because the next day, after election day, it was clear that Walter George actually beat Jeanne by 40,000

votes. Urban migration was affecting Jeanne's ability to win elections. Some of the county races were quite close and a difference of just over 200 votes in certain counties would have given Talmadge the election under the county unit system. But Gene wasn't going to back down this time. He refused to concede the election and announced he would contest the vote. Stop this deal! Gene filed complaints with the Democratic Committee in 34 counties, claiming a recount would quote unquote, clearly give me the election. 34 counties claiming a recount would quote unquote clearly give me the election. To quote Anderson, the Talmadge office had been literally flooded with phone calls and letters complaining of voting irregularities. Many were sworn affidavits.

People claimed that dead people, children and non-residents had voted for George. Payoffs had payoffs had been made. Counting falsified and ballots pre-markmarked." Time is a flat circle. Nothing does change. Yeah. No, absolutely not. As a backup plan, Jean hatched another scheme to overrule the county unit election. By making enough of a big fuss over the recounts and voting irregularities, Jean hoped to pressure the gubernatorial candidates Hugh Howell and Ed Rivers into having their delegates name Talmadge Senator at the October convention. This was an odd strategy,

considering that Gene was not currently in the good graces of either man. But he was getting desperate. And when it became clear that crucial counties were going to reject his complaints, Gene began sending letters to friends in the counties asking for assistance. One such letter read, get all the evidence of irregularities in the election that you can. If you can get any evidence of money being used, get this in affidavit form. We will then appeal it to the convention in Macon on October 5th." Now, the counties did not like having their elections questioned. Gene's accusations of misconduct were near unanimously rejected, and counties billed him for the trouble that he caused, which is also a good thing we don't see

as much anymore, being like, you made us do all this extra work, here, we'll just send you a bill? this extra work here, we'll just send you a bill?" His appeal to the State Executive Committee was also rejected in a 61-4 vote. Gene responded to the ruling by saying, "...the very resistance of the State Executive Committee to recount bears out our contentions that something was wrong." Sure, sure buddy, of course. Yeah, as his grasps for power continued to fail, Gene became increasingly angry and desperate. He called on his supporters to march on the Macon Convention to demand that Gene's accusations be heard.

He tried to plant a J6. Man, he really, there is nothing new under the sun. I mean, one of the heartbreakers here is I had thought Trump was a little more original than he really is. And, you know, it just hate, it sucks when you find out your heroes aren't who you thought they were. You know, that just hurts, it hurts. The night before the convention, some friends of Gene

staged an intervention in his hotel, begging him to admit that he lost Wow how the times have fucking changed but But supporters crash the intervention to convince Gene to keep fighting which he did he immediately doubled down He sent Tom Linder to tell Hugh Howell that if he released his delegates to Gene Tom Linder to tell Hugh Howell that if he released his delegates to Jean, Jean would help him win the 1940 governor's race. Howell was still mad that Jean had turned his back on him in the last election, and

it was now Howell that refused to help Jean. The convention came. Jean and his cronies were going around trying to coerce a roll call decision on Jean's election denial. Governor Ed Rivers actually allowed this to happen, confident that the result would serve Gene one final humiliation. And he was correct. Gene's call for a reconsideration of the vote

was firmly shut down. Gene went into a tantrum telling supporters that it was Hugh Howell's fault that they had failed at the convention, saying, quote, we had stacks of evidence at the Macon convention, but they refused to even look at it. The great trouble there was that Hugh Howell sold out the Talamitch people and appoint and appointed George Men as delegates." Unquote.

Again, just flat circle shit. We had, we had all, we had all this evidence. They refused to look at it. It's been stolen, et cetera, et cetera. Basically what happened here was that Jean's disinterest and periodic disrespect of the machinery of party politics, as well as state and county power structures, finally began to damage him politically. What once helped get him into power was now self-stabitaging his ability to hold onto power and effectively navigate party politics.

So after his second Senate defeat in a row, Gene wished to return to his comfort zone and retake the governor's office. In 1939, Gene kept relatively low profile, but he would still travel around the state to speak at local clubs and organizations, nothing too notable, but ensured that he remained a presence to his core base at like rural barbecues and church socials.

Meanwhile, a loose organization of Gene's political allies spent the year quietly lobbying courthouse gangs and promoting Jean as governor across the state. Ed Rivers couldn't seek reelection, so Jean's biggest competition was his friend turned rival Hugh Howell, who would try to run for a third time. I'm gonna quote from Anderson again, quote, a number of factors made the return of Talmadge possible. One was the scandalous debts run up by rivers, the state was almost bankrupt. Another was the shadow of a world war and the anxieties that fear produced. A crisis was created. There was a need for strength, a desire for the simple solution in a complex and confusing world. A future that no one

wanted made the past a psychological crutch. Gene Talmadge, the Iron Man of action, would once again ride onto the political stage to save the day. He saw no way he could lose. He had in two elections been recognized as a man disjointed from the times. That fact that had been his strength in earlier races, but became his weakness, now again would be his strength.

Unsettled times had thrown the people out of step. With war threatening, they began to look for that well-worn path. They dug back in their past and found the certainty they had been seeking. Old Jean, he was their crutch in a way. Only this time it was war and needless bankruptcy that demanded an aura of toughness.

Now I find this quote to be one of the more unsettling in how it kind of shows how the backwardness can flip flop, like how things that are your strength can become your weakness. And then as times get tougher, that can be your strength again. And considering the current economic situation in this country, as well as raging wars in the Middle East,

it does not leave me with tons of comfort. No, I mean, if you're reading history right, it never should. Yeah. But yeah, that is a particularly, because you're never safe in a democracy, right? The upside is you have a degree of agency over the political system,

but you are always waiting for the worm to turn in such a way that the very worst people are empowered and it will always happen. You never, there's no getting away from it. Like there's no, somebody made a post on the subreddit the other day where they were like, is it just, are we just going to every four years be worried about becoming a dictatorship and like,

yeah bro, that's the system homie. That's how it is. Speaking of dictator, some of Gene's advisors wanted him to give his opening campaign speech from above the crowd through his office window in Atlanta. But Gene thought this would make him look too much like Mussolini. So.

You can really, it says a lot about the period of time that that was no longer a good thing. Cause there was, there were several years where they would have been like, you should do it. It'll make you look like Mussolini. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you're like in 1940 now. Yeah, yeah.

1940 is too late. It's become a little uncool. Extraordination date. Cause like because- 1940 is too late. It's become a little uncool. Extraordinary date. He's like, Gene likes Mussolini. I'm sure he did. He just knows that it's not gonna play well in this moment. So instead- Mussolini. Robert. That's what I would have done.

That's what I would have said. That's how I would have taken him down. Instead, Gene donned his red suspenders and stood on a chair outside the Capitol to officially announce his campaign to an excited crowd of supporters. To draw up an interest in the campaign and demonstrate the return of personality theatrical politics, the Talmadge team wrote a song and turned it into a record that would play before every Talmadge speech. I'm going to read some of the lyrics here that are in this book.

An apple a teacher, Jesus Christ, these are so bad. An apple for the teacher is very fine indeed, but sad to state an apple is not all the teachers need. The needless state employees and the government so wild had a very marked effect on every Georgia child. Unfortunately, these are all of the lyrics I could find but it's just a song about how big a government is hurting children. And this song, everyone became sick of this song because this was now the only

song that would play before all of the Talmud speeches just on loop. This was the first, this was like the first time, usually before campaign speeches they had like live music.. It was like usually before campaign speeches, they had like live music. They just have like, you know, some like local band would like play some tunes. This was now they were hooking up a record to like loud speakers and just blasting it.

Oh God, that's just hell. Bad, bad. Now Gene's son, Herman Talmadge was growing increasingly influential within the Talmadge machine and provided his father a newfound political savvy. Though Gene was reluctant at first, Herman struck a deal with the Georgia New Deal Democrats for their backing in exchange for an ever so slightly more liberal Talmadge platform focusing on education and the economy.

The resulting platform was widely deemed the most like legitimate and practical out of Talmage's whole career. To quote Anderson, a Talmage victory was so certain that the race took on a great deal of boredom. Fistfights at speeches, a common occurrence, began getting as much press attention as the speeches themselves. Kind of the most emblematic day of the 1940 race was on July 27th. All of the candidates held rallies in Warm Springs. Gene didn't arrive on time, but his custom song blared over the loudspeakers on repeat, drowning out the other candidates. On stage, Gene's opponents took turns attacking him, with one targeting Gene for quote, boasting

he had read Hitler's book seven times, although he said he was too busy to read any other books unquote. And look, I'm one of the very few people who have read Mein Kampf, because that book is not- Seven times! Not a readable book. Seven times. This is literally a joke in the boys. This is literally a joke in the boys. This is literally a joke in the boys.

That's nuts. That's too many times to have read Mein Kampf. No, they're like, there's a great episode where they asked, they're like Tucker Carlson analog, have you ever read Mein Kampf? He's like, yeah, like a few times, I guess. And they're like, a few times? I will say my favorite Mein Kampf joke

is in the movie Churchill the Hollywood years in which Christian Slater plays Winston Churchill where one of the one of the King of England's servants sees a copy of Mein Kampf by his bed and goes, me and camp F, what's this a gay prison novel? It's great, perfect. They did that exact Tucker Carlson thing in succession with as a scene in succession. Maybe this was succession, not the boys. Maybe I'm confusing it, or maybe it's both, who knows?

I could be confusing Tucker Carlson analogs because they're all just Tucker. Yeah, it's always Tucker. Yeah, now, Gene arrived- Tuck everlasting. No. Gene arrived late from a hemorrhoid operation and literally upstaged one of his opponents

who was in the middle of a speech. And this disturbance sparked a massive brawl beneath the stage that only got worse when Gene tried to speak. To quote William Anderson, quote, the crowd was now full of devilment. And while supporters spoke for Gene, a car was set afire in the back of the crowd

and people swirled to watch it burn. It was just like the old days. About the only punches Jean's opponents were able to land that summer were in regard to Talmadge's early admiration for Europe's rising dictators. They all honed in on Jean's propensity for militaristic action and pointed to where that type of action had gotten Europe. Gene ignored them." The election for the Democratic

primary was held on 9-11 and the results handily gave Gene a clear and decisive victory. Just truly, truly the worst 9-11. Gene got like 320 county unit votes. He just completely swept the race. Gene arrived late to his own celebration party and left early to pass out in his hotel room. He was getting old. He was having hemorrhoid operations. He wasn't the same kind of fiery young man

that started his career. Yeah, by the time you're having, yeah. Hemorrhoid operations make you fiery, but maybe a different kind of fire. Different fiery. Yeah, different sort of fire. The Georgia Democratic Convention next month was referred to as a Talmage orgy

and was full of over 4,000 Talmage fanatics in red suspenders times a flat circle. I hate that so much. Yeah, man. And 4,000, that's not a small amount for like- No, that's a decent crowd today for like a local- For like a local political convention? Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Now, journalist Ralph McGill wrote, quote, Talmadge has something only few men have. He has that quality that makes men want to follow him, to fight for him, to defend him, unquote. Now, Gene sent his son Herman to promise FDR that they were going to bury the hatchet, quote unquote, and that they would be fully cooperative in the war effort. But Gene's personal feelings differ. I'm going to end this episode with one final quote from Anderson that

kind of lays out what Jean was like going into World War II. Quote, the Nazi devastations in Europe brought out the isolationism in Talmage. He saw the conflict as a potential drain on the American economy. There was for him little value in foreign aid taking money from the hungry farmer's pocket. Talmage singled out FDR as the main force behind America's growing involvement in the war, and this increased his hatred of the man. He felt that if the United States remained strong, the country would be left alone. He said in November, quote, If you lead a bulldog around with you, nobody is likely to jump on you, unquote. same breath he warned, quote, America cannot take the stand of being a permanent

guard for Europe. Some thought Gene's isolationism had gotten out of hand when he wrote some highly favorable editorials about Japan in The Statesman after that country had just killed thousands of Chinese. Japan thought it had an ally in Gene and invited a member of his newspaper to quote, witness the real life and the scenic beauties of Japan. So you may represent them to the American people through your newspaper unquote.

There's no more natural ally for the governor of Georgia than the empire of Japan. Let's just say it. Let's just say it. The fascist Japan. He literally sent over his employees to, no. His employees were invited to Japan by the fascist party to like give it a glowing review in his own newspaper.

Boy, this Unit 731 thing really seems interesting. Why don't we try a local version of that? Oh my God. Gene was an innocent dupe who was so desperate to keep attention from leaving the poor farmer that he would even try to sanctify war makers. Others saw this as indicative of the dark side of Gene. When people were calling him a dictator, he said,

"'I'm what you call a minor dictator. "'But did you ever see anybody that was much good "'who didn't have a little dictator in him, unquote. He's not wrong about that. He's actually not wrong about that. I mean, this is like, yeah, that is how politics works. It's not just politics. Like everyone I've ever worked with

who's a good like manager has a little bit of that sometime. You have to, right? I feel attacked. That's how movies get made too, Sophie. Sophie is the dictator of cool stuff. Yeah, you need a little bit of dictator. He's not wrong about that, right? Like it's the same thing.

Like there's a degree to which you need that. I mean, yeah, like that's how fucking movies get made. Can't tell if I'm being attacked or complimented. And that's- Both, it's a complisult. It's a complisult. But I mean complimented. It's a complisult. But, I mean, no, he like embraced this like minor dictator refrain. And then to conclude from Anderson, quote, Gene's early admiration for Hitler, the fact that he had read Hitler's book seven times and his tendency to surround himself with

huge military staffs and nonchalantly call for martial law gave it an eerie backing to his words." Unquote. So yeah, that's Gene circa 1940. He's sending his employees and I believe actually his own son to Japan as special guests of the Japanese government. He's reading Mein Kampf a few too many times, I would say. Six too many times. I'm fine with up to one. A few too many times, I would say. Six too many times. Yeah.

I'm fine with up to one. And certainly embracing the dictatorial attacks on him by saying, I mean, come on, you gotta be a little bit of a dictator. So yeah, that is- A little bit. That is Gene. That's how I podcast, you know,

a little bit of a dictator. Yeah, that is Gene at this point. He's getting old, he's getting a little worn out, but he's still hanging in there. Yeah, yeah, he really is. Boy, this man has some staying power. Well, he's an innovator, you gotta give him that. We will finish this four-part series on Gene

in the next episode where we are gonna discuss, just as a little hint, something called the cocking affair, which is kind of one of the last of Gene's scandals. So get excited for that. We're gonna have a lot of good cocking jokes, I guess. Yeah, why not? Cock out with our talk out. That's what we're gonna do.

Wow. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube. New episodes every Wednesday and Friday.

Subscribe to our channel, youtube.com, slash, at Behind the Bastards. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. My latest episode is with Jelly Roll. This episode is one of the most honest and raw interviews I've ever had. We go deep into Jelly Roll's life story from being in and out of prison from the age of 13 to being one of today's biggest artists. I was a desperate delusional dreamer. Be a delusional dreamer.

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