Behind the Bastards - Part Three: The Phil Spector Episodes

Episode Date: April 7, 2026

Greazy Wil continues the story of Phil Spector, and how his relationship with the Beatles and his relationship with his wife came into, uh, conflict. Cool Zone Media is nominated for 3 Webby Awards!  Please submit your votes by April 16th :) Behind the Bastards - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/features/experimental-innovation  It Could Happen Here - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/limited-series-specials/news-politics  Migrating to America - https://vote.webbyawards.com/PublicVoting#/2026/podcasts/limited-series-specials/documentary   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

CoolZone Media. Hey, everybody, Robert here, and the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences have announced that three different Cool Zone media shows have been nominated for awards at the 30th annual Webby Awards. You can vote on these now if you just Google the name of the podcast and the category behind the bastards has been nominated in the experimental and innovation podcast category. It could happen here is in the news and politics podcasts category. and James Stout's mini-series migrating to America, A Dream Worth Dying for, has been nominated in the podcast's documentary category. And you can find links to vote for each of these podcasts

in the episode description and in the posts on social media for episodes if it could happen here and Behind the Bastards. Thank you. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, everyone. I'm Robert Evans. This is a classy podcast about the worst people in all of history, always introduced by beautiful musical accompaniment, courtesy of our guest, Greasy Will. That was beautiful, Will.

Thank you, thank you. Yes, this was an entire composition by me. I reproduced this all because today we are going to be talking a little bit about the Beatles and about John Lennon and Phil Spector and his relationship to all of of them. And so yesterday, I decided I had so many things to do that I was like, gonna lose my mind. And I thought, what could be better than ignoring all of those things, getting blackout drunk and making a tribute song for this week's second week here on Phil Specter, episode three, which I thought this was going to be like one episode. I can't believe we're

getting two songs. Yeah. Well, I had to. It was like, it was, you know, I was like, I got to keep them, keep the fans interested. I judge it. Good. So, yeah, so yesterday I got, you got your gavel. Honorable. It's official, yeah. That was beautiful.

And I do wonder a lot, will I wake up scared every night. Like, are the, did people finally figured out how to stop being evil? Like, is this the day that my job loses all meaning? And then I wake up and someone's committed a horrible crime against you, man. And then just, thank God. Thank God. watch like even just opening your phone you're like oh cool still employed okay yeah yeah still got work to do thank god thank god oh man well this has been a cold open and it's a musical

cold opening a very warm cold open a very warm cold opening this is an i heart podcast guaranteed human i'm lorry seagel and this is mostly human a tech podcast through a human lens This week, an interview with Open AI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world. An in-depth conversation with a man who's shaping our future. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to mostly human on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kohn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today. Talking about the mental illness stuff, it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting the talk about this is not common for me.

Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Chetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be on. hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian. Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10 shots, 5, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events

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on the I-Heart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. We're hearing more about Phil Specter. If anyone notices that my robe is covered in hay, it's because it just fed the animals. It's a robe. If you had not said anything, I'd assume that was a regular winter jacket,

but no, you're wearing a robe. It's a robe I got at Caesar's Palace. They know now when you steal them. I don't remember buying this. That's my favorite part. When we last left Phil, he and Ronnie had just been married and he went to visit his mother Bertha, literally the day of, right? He went to visit his mother Bertha.

Abusive as ever. Yeah. Truly terrible. When he gets home, he's drunk as hell. He starts screaming. Sure. Right? And he's all mad at Ronnie and everything because he believes she's taking his money.

And Ronnie and her mother spend the night locked in her bathroom, hiding from Phil. scared, you know, and they sleep in her bathtub, right? Okay. On her wedding night. That's how she spends her wedding night. Cool. Oh, that's romantic.

So the next day, Phil wakes up, realizes he's a bastard, and changes all his ways. That's the end of the story. Okay. Great. Wow. You really put a lot of work into the song for a six-minute-long episode, but I appreciate it, well. No, yeah.

Well, so I was lying. You're lying. No, not you. Not greasy Will lying. Phil Specter went on to spend the rest of his life volunteering at a children's hospital. Doing some with children. He's just kind of a shitty husband at this point, you know? It's like, I guess it's behind the shitty husbands.

That's why I'm on. So far. Well, and also, he's fucked over a lot of women. He has. He has been horrible. He's in general. He's a horrible person. Yeah.

So his relationship with his mother. is strained at best. He doesn't let her come into the studio at all. He doesn't like her being around at all. Sometimes she does show up at the studio. And she still calls him Harvey, which pisses him off, you know? She, like, refuses to ever call him Phil.

Yeah. That's weird. And she'll, like, randomly show up in the studio with, like, matzabal soup and shit and be like, Phil, you need to eat. And he's like, no, go away. I know, I would not either, but, like, you know, whatever. He's also probably consuming his weight and cocaine every day, right?

So I'm imagining not much of an appetite. He's not really a drug user as much. He kind of looks down on drugs mostly. He looks down on artists that do drugs. Yeah. When he does get into the vices, it's mostly alcohol. It's mostly that he's an alcoholic, but he's super Jekyll and Hyde with it all the time. Interesting.

And he'll go through like, this is. his whole life he does this, like periods of sobriety and then periods where he's just getting lit all the time. But he's one of those guys, he's pissed by people like doing, doing blow, getting smoking weed, taking acid, right. Yeah, he doesn't seem to really, like, it's not really mentioned about weeds. So I especially assume since like the Beatles and everything, he probably was fine with weed, but like definitely didn't like cocaine being around in the studio. He's not the cool party guy. Yeah. Yeah. By the time, he married Ronnie, right? He's barely seeing his mom.

But that's when his sister, around the same time, his sister gets committed to a psychiatric facility. And she will remain there for the rest of her life. So Shirley has gone from the story now. Phil will never talk about her ever. He never discuss her. And because of that, she just kind of just disappears to his. I mean, obviously, she spends the rest of her life pretty much

in and out of mental health care. So she's gone. Right. Okay. Phil, at the same time, this is when he starts transforming his home into a literal fortress. He's got this huge mansion in Hollywood. Oh, cool. And he's got gates all around it.

He's got dogs. He's got multiple, like, guard dogs. He's got a guy who's basically, like, his, like, personal body card slash also. He's, like, regularly, like, he gets his, like, sandwiches and stuff. Yeah. You know, is his dude, George Brent. He's around for most of this story. And a lot of the stuff that happens, he's, like, involved in it.

in some way. But he seems to be just a pretty decent guy. But overall, like, part of his job is to monitor Ronnie. Part of his job is to monitor the visitors that come by. If, like, if somebody comes in and like a guest or whatever, he's not to leave the room while they're there and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, like, Ronnie.

I knew one son of a really famous and wealthy guy and who was otherwise normal, but would periodically get really paranoid while like out hanging out doing normal person things, that they were going to get kidnapped, like that that was a constant, even when there was nothing happening, no indication of it.

And I guess that, like, I think that just happens to some people when they start to hit that level of, like, wealth and fame where they just can't stop thinking about all of the people that, all the things that might go wrong, all the people who might want to take it from them. I don't know.

Side story and a really co-reported. correlating side one that is music industry. I once worked for Balt Getty, who is the great grandson of those Gettys. Those Gettys, yes. His dad, his dad is the Getty that was kidnapped in Europe and had his ears sliced off and everything. So it's like, it's understandable to carry a level of paranoia, you know, like I could, and like when he talked about it, like, it was always just like, yeah, man, like, he did not

seem very trusting of people just showing up at his place. You know? We were going to kidnap my friend, but we just never got around to it, too. And he didn't have any money. So we're just doing it for no reason. It also, like, with the whole Patty Hearst thing, became, like, a very popular situation. Right. That's such an interesting story.

Yeah. All right. So Ronnie is restricted inside the house. She can't really do much. Like, she's not allowed to leave ever. The doors are always locked. Phil always locks the door. He's big on that.

So as she's, her isolation intensifies, she began drinking heavily. Phil actually gave her the first alcohol she ever had. She did not drink until she was well into, like, her relationship with Phil. And Phil gave her the first sip of alcohol she ever had. But now it's becoming, like, one of the few emotional outlets available to her.

Right. It wasn't recreational at all. was absolutely a coping mechanism inside an environment she could not safely leave. Like, Phil's behavior becomes increasingly unpredictable, alternating between affection, surveillance, and intimidation. He gets more and more controlling. He would tell her to stop focusing on her music, you know, and, like, be a good wife, and that's what she should do, and that's her job.

And he no longer even pretends that, like, to be interested in taking her into the studio anymore, or like she very, she has no career anymore. Being her, like, the Ronnets are still doing things, like touring and stuff like that. She's just not a part of it, right? Right. The group that's literally her name saying, the Ronettes, you know.

Ronettes don't have Ronnie anymore. Yeah, they're still touring. And because, like, you know, again, like, it's very, like, bands back then are very amorphous. You don't really know what a lot of them look like because you've never seen a picture of them, you know? Sure. So no one else knows or whatever.

But because she's drinking heavily, she would sneak downstairs. They had a bar, right? Because Phil's in the entertainment industry. People come over. They have a bar. But he would lock it up and she would just come down and jimmy it open and drink all the liquor that's inside. And then, you know, and Phil obviously sees this or whatever. Sure.

Even though she's stressed and, you know, isolated and going through this whole thing, They still are trying to have a baby, you know, but they weren't able to ever conceive. And the blame was always passed to her despite, you know, Phil being half of that situation as well, you know. Yeah. Sensing that she was getting frustrated with life as a shut-in in 1968 for her birthday, Phil bought Ronnie a Camero. But even in the gift came the air of control. He had the car monogrammed with V.S. for Veronica Spector, so everyone would know that she's his possession. It's like, wow.

Because she's a tag on a livestock ear or something like that. Yes, and she, she's like, you know, musically, she's known as Ronnie, right? So for her to, he starts calling her Veronica all the time, specifically as a measure of control. Like, you are not Ronnie anymore. You are Veronica Spector. You are Phil's wife, right? Whatever, Harvey, was that his real name, Harvey? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Just the emphasis on really forcing her to like that in front of her face is interesting. Yeah. Oh, it's... And speaks to some desperation on his part, too. It's about to get even better. Yeah, yeah. All right. So, this is a quote from Ronnie from, from Be My Baby. Quote, it might seem far-fetched that anyone would put that much energy into controlling someone else's life, but that was Phil.

You've got to remember that the man was a genius and he had nothing better to do with his life after he retired from rock and roll. So turning me into the perfect wife became his major project. Just as making me into a number one singer had been his goal five years earlier. So, you know, he, this is what he spends his time doing instead of music now as just being. Maybe there's other things he could have done with his life. With his vast fortune and access to the halls of power and entertainment, maybe other things. Okay. This next part is easily my favorite Phil Spector story. Like, We're going to get into, all right, so there's going to be some very troubling things and also some extremely hilarious things that you will, you just, all right, I'm going to tell you

it. All right, so understand that when we're laughing, we're also crying. You know, I want to make sure everybody knows that this is funny in retrospect, but at the time, I'm sure it was horrific and trigger warnings and all that shit. Yeah, these are just the things you have to laugh about afterwards because how else do you handle it? Crazy. Crazy. So when showing her the brand new Camaro, he goes to the trunk and he pulls out an inflatable mannequin dressed exactly like himself.

Ronnie is completely baffled about it. And he tells her, this is for when you're driving alone, so no one will ever fuck with you. She realized that Phil has this dummy just to watch over her when he's not, when he's not with her. Yeah, he's got a dummy. And like, she talks about it extensively. like it had like his face basically like on it, you know? Like he spent... Did you say it's a blow-up dummy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an inflatable dummy. And he's got it dressed exactly like him. Sure. He's got it. And he puts it in the seat and she's like, what are he this? He's got tailored clothes for the dummy. Yeah.

Hey, why does the dummy have a gun, Phil? It's so funny, dude. Inflatable dummy with a gun. Keeps popping himself. I feel like he's trying to send a message, but I just can't figure out what it is. Phil the dummy, you shot himself in the head. I've never seen anything like it.

So just 10 days later and only four months after their wedding, Ronnie hired a lawyer to file for divorce. But almost immediately she rescinds and says like, okay, I'm just, I'm being silly. Like, I need to chill out. I'm not, this doesn't have to be this way. Like, it definitely, you know, probably, I mean, a bit of early marriage jitters because this guy's a giant asshole.

Like, maybe I can fix him, you know? Yeah. I'm sure many of my ex-wives thought exactly the same thing. No comment. Well, look, I can't stand me. I think you're perfect the way you are. All right. So Ronnie says that Phil was never physically violent.

It just, it wasn't. his style. But his emotional and mental abuse was legendary. When she falls and suffers a minor sprain and he has to leave town, he hires a nurse to look over her while he's gone. That sounds nice, right? He

hires her a nurse while he's out of town. No, the nurse is there to forbid her from doing anything. She's forced to sit in a wheelchair and use a wheelchair while he's gone so that she can't get around or whatever. All right. And then he's not

He's not just, like, controlling her with the nurse. He's also, I mean, he is controlling her. But he's also having the nurse give her heavy-duty tranquilizers. Oh, shit. Oh, cool. So that she just has no, like, willpower to do anything while he's gone. So she has to... Yeah, she should just put her on pause.

He's putting his partner on pause as he leaves for the weekend or whatever. Yeah. Like a TiVo. Kids don't know what TiVo is. Like a Vigima game. So yeah, so he's literally, he's like, she has some friends come over, and her friends are like, what are these pills you're taking? And she's like, the nurse just makes me take them.

I don't know what they are. And they're like. Dead inside. Are you okay? Yeah. Nightmare. So Phil eventually lets her get back into the studio and writes a song for her, but it bombs horribly. And he uses it as justification for her to no longer pursue her music career. Years later, she realizes that Phil likely gave him.

her a bad song for that exact reason, and she finally resigns to just be the housewife that Phil wants her to be. So he, like, he gives her a purposely bad song, and it's like, see, it failed. You should just be a wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's trying, great. Yeah.

That's like gaslighting. You really have to, that's like a whole separate level. Yeah, it's like on the national state. Yeah, it's like on the national state. Literally like, I'll fuck up my career just to fuck up your career. It's the opposite of what I want to do to, like, right-wingers who fail out of Hollywood or whatever and try to go into politics is just like make fake fans in a fake industry like, oh, yeah, you can fill fake Madison Square Garden, Ben Shapiro. People love to hear your speeches. Oh, man.

So, yeah, so she finally resigns and just be the housewife, and they adopt a baby boy named Dante. Okay. But Phil doesn't want anyone to know that this baby is adopted. So he sends out fake birth announcements being like, we welcome Dante to our family. And like, when people ask, he tells her, like, just tell her, just tell everybody. Because like, obviously she was not pregnant.

And then she has a baby, right? And he's like, just tell everybody that it was a premature birth. And that's why, you know, we, you didn't see me pregnant at all because I was, barely ever pregnant, you know? That's not how that works. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's 1967 or eight or some shit, you know, it's like probably, you know,

it's like it's not like FaceTime exists or whatever, you know? Like, you could go a good time without really seeing somebody and then be like, oh, you might miss a pregnancy entirely, yeah. Yes. So she gets the baby and everything, but she's not allowed to be a, mother to the baby at all. So they get like a nanny and the nanny does all the work and Phil's like, that's why we hired a nanny. What are you doing work for? So why are you doing nanny stuff? Yeah. Yeah. So she's like, you tell me to be the perfect wife and the perfect mother and then you yell at me whenever I'm

trying to be a mother. She completely gives up on having a career. All right. And then this is from, this is from Ronnie's book. Quote, besides, he pointed out, who's going to take care of the baby while were in the studio. Phil knew he had me. I wasn't going to argue against anything that might get my career back. So I accepted it. And then she goes on to say that

anytime she would bring up getting back into the studio, he would either be like, you got to take care of the baby. What are you doing? Or he'd flip out on her and be like, I've got other things to do. I've got a call to make.

I can't be doing this shit right now. So he's like, so he's like gaslighting her back and forth on everything. that's going on in her life. You know, it's like, you know, you can't go into the studio because you've got to be a mom,

but you can't be a mom because we hired a nanny. Why would you be a mom? Like, you know, it's like, she just has this profound sense of being basically nothing anymore. From going from a mega superstar on the world stage,

touring the Europe and everything, to like, you can't even take care of your kid. You don't even have an audience with your own child, you know, type shit. God, that's... I mean, that's also got to be getting him off, just the exercise of that much power. Like, I can take you from this to this.

I don't know how, like, direct he's talking about that, but it feels like that's got to be part of it, right? Yes, and it does seem to be, like, a common situation and it's like that power and, like, having that power. And Sophie, to bring up something that you mentioned before, it's like with his first wife, the reason it's like he has to have control and he has to be in charge until being in charge no longer means anything to him, right? And then that's why with his first wife, he wasn't possessive in control.

And once he had her, he was like, oh, I don't care. I've proved everything I need to prove here. But now with, like, Ronnie, he continually needs to prove how in charge of her life he is. And to himself, to everyone else, and he takes joy from that, you know? Interesting. Okay. But Ronnie's memoir is full of the most hilarious stories you've ever heard. Like, so Ronnie is mixed race.

She's black and white and Cherokee, I believe. and Phil is obviously white Jewish and Dante is a mixed-race baby so this makes sense for everything but shortly after they adopt Dante Ronnie's mom comes to stay with him and Phil sends her out to Watts to buy him an Afro wig Oh God

no no he doesn't no he doesn't no he doesn't no that's not real Watts huh that's not real In like the early late 60s, early 70s, he's like, go over to Watts. Watts was, if you don't know, that's where you would buy an Afro wig for sure. It is where you get an Afro wig. In listeners, Watts was calmly, famously the calmest place in Los Angeles in this part of the 60s.

Nothing happened in Watts during this part of the 60s. No, no, no. Okay. So she has to go all over Watts looking for one and she finally finds it and she brings it back for Phil and he loves it. And he starts wearing it all the time, dude, including. Oh, awesome. Awesome. Including to a black church in Watts that he forces them to go to.

He's like, we're going to go to this black church and Watts. This means going to cause his own Watts riots. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. I misinterpted in what you were saying. And now it's even funnier because I thought you were saying he forced her to get that for the kid to wear. No. But no.

He forced her to get that word. The Phil to wear. The Phil to wear. Is there a picture? Yeah, Afro. Is there a picture? So Ronnie says she's like kind of bored, but Phil is loving it. He's, you know, hallelujah, he's dancing around.

And he's got, and he's wearing a gun at the time. Oh, my God. And everybody can see he's wearing a gun. And being the only white person in like a very black church in Watts, dancing around and clapping. and singing hallelujah doing all this shit. Afro wig with a piece. Oh, my God.

I mean, can you even imagine this happening? Like, he survived through, like, the grace of people just being like, oh, that guy's crazy as fuck. There's something wrong with him. Yeah. It's so funny, man. So Ronnie, of course, continues to abuse alcohol because who wouldn't in this situation. Right.

Yeah. I don't even call that abusing. I would just call that. That's self-medicating. Yeah, you're just self-medicating. So she blacks out while driving her car and she wrecks her Camaro. And she doesn't get in any trouble. But Phil's like, all right, well, you got to see a psychiatrist.

And which she does right up until the psychiatrist says, also, hey, Phil, you should come in because clearly there's some other things going on that are, you know, that are causing this stuff. There might be more to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, no, I ain't doing that. And he's like, and you ain't either. You ain't going to a psychiatrist. And so, and he tells her specifically, you're the one with the problems. Why would I go?

Wow. Wow. What a perfectly shitty response, though. That is beautiful, Phil. Well crafted. Yeah. He tries locking the liquor cabinet, but she just pries it open. He eventually, he forces her into rehab, which she actually loves.

I'm sure she does. She's like rehab is the shit. They tried to make her go to rehab and it was great. It helped her a lot. And she, because it's like, oh, I get to be away from Phil. I don't have to be around him anymore. So now anytime she starts this cycle, right, where anytime she just gets sick of Phil, she just drinks a shitload and gets put in rehab.

And then she's like, cool, two week vacation from Phil, right? And then pops right back. Okay, fine, I'll come back. I can deal with them again, you know. So she doesn't have an alcohol problem as much as she has a Phil Specter problem. Yes, completely. Just a Phil Specter problem. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Speaking of things that will make you go to rehab. I tried to make me go to rehab every time we do an advertisement because I'm addicted to our advertisements. I should probably go to rehab, but rehab is for quitters says a t-shirt. I saw at this state fair when I was 11. Yeah, exactly. That state fair taught you a lot.

Thank you, Carney parents. Come back, and we'll learn some things you can't learn at a state fair, unless it's the Texas one. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women,

entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear our technology. tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world. From power to parenthood.

Kids, teenagers, I think they won't need a lot of guardrails around AI. This is such a powerful and such a new thing. From addiction to acceleration. The world we live in is a competitive world, and I don't think that's going to stop, even if you did a lot of redistribution. We have a deep desire to excel and be competitive and gain status and be useful to others. And it's a multiplayer game. What does the man who has extraordinary influence over our lives,

have to say about the weight of that responsibility. Find out on Mostly Human. My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate

setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Lave, Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. each morning

say you love me you know I... So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd

found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Marincini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. All right. So she's drinking.

She's a drunk. She's going to rehab. She's a specter. She's addicted to Phil Specter. Yeah, and she's going to rehab. One night, Phil takes Ronnie down to the basement of their house. Don't like the story or other. Don't like this way this is starting.

I don't love that. I don't love that. He takes it down to their basement and he shows her a golden glass casket. And he says, this is where you will be if you ever leave me. Oh. Oh. The level of commitment to this intimidation, I cannot begin to stress. He had a custom-made casket, right?

He had them bring it into his house. Like, he presumably left it there for years. Yeah. Only as a threat. Waiting? Yeah, waiting until he knew he needed the big guns to pull out. Like, this is high-level mental abuse. Yeah.

This is like what an unlimited budget. Like, this is why I would never date a millionaire, right? Or a billionaire. Oh, right. No, because they'll do crazy shit to you. Yeah. Like, they're going to be able to, like, pay somebody to just follow you around for an entire year when you leave them, you know?

Right. Yeah. It's dark. It's super dark. I'm just imagining, like, protecting that casket, like, he's not pissed and she wants to go downstairs. And he's like, wait, no, no, no, I got to take care of that. You can't go down there. You can't go down there.

I don't want you to see a Christmas gift. Yeah. Something like that. She's like, I'm just going to go. a chas spaghetti. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, not in the basement, not the basement. Make George get it. All right, so she would claim that the doors of the house were always locked and she was only allowed to leave during their anniversary. Phil kept her shoes so she could never leave the house without his approval.

For her 26th birthday, she's 26 years old. For her 26th birthday, Phil takes her to Las Vegas to see Elvis Presley. And presumably so they could do karate in the fucking backroof. Yeah, I would imagine. they're doing karate, maybe showing off the guns they always carry. Yeah. So she's stoked because, you know, she always wanted to meet Elvis and they're a big time couple or whatever. Yeah.

And basically Phil like abandons her in the crowd. And it's like, I'm going to hang out with Elvis. Go to the hotel room. Such a menace. I'll see you later. He's such a man. Have a good night. That didn't make into the new Elvis movie.

That's tragic. Him and Phil Specter just in the back just, pia. Yeah, dude karate. So crazy. In 1969, in the midst of the Beatles' well-documented decline, Side bastard. Side bastard Alan Klein asked Phil to come to London to help assemble the disaster of the Let It Be recordings.

So for people who are the dumbest human beings alive and don't know everything about the Beatles. Sure. Okay, fair enough. The Let It Be album was actually recorded before Abbey Road, right? It was recorded. I actually didn't know that. I'm one of the dumbest people a lot.

But it was a mess, right? They were fighting. John is on heroin, hardcore. By the way, side story, do you know who got, who I heard got John addicted to heroin? Was it? James Taylor. Oh, okay, I can see that. Yeah, I can see that.

James Taylor of Fire and Rain is the guy who got him addicted to heroin. Well, because if James Taylor offered me a heroin, I would definitely do it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. I would absolutely. I can see that, yeah. Literally if like my brother offered me heroin, I'd probably do it. Right there, but certainly James Taylor.

Yeah. But yeah, so they're a mess, right? They're falling apart and Phil is brought in to save these recordings, right? while and and there are, I believe they're already done with, with Abbey Road having recorded Abby Road and let it be definitely comes after, you know, like it was, but it was assembled by Phil essentially.

He, um, he flies in literally just for this job. They're like, here's a bunch of tapes. Just do something with it. And it's why that album is generally, um, is generally like kind of, it's kind of wild, right? There's like these huge orchestrations. but also like these like slapdash little like weird interlude sections and talking and jokes and all that. They just needed to fill out space and it was part of the creativity of the whole thing.

Right. Phil hates flying, which I read a story somewhere and I wish I tried to find it so hard, but I read a story one time about Phil freaking out on a private plane that they had to turn around and come back like almost immediately after taking off. Because he's terrified of flying all the time. But he has to fly back and forth. Has to do with, I mean, do you think any of his fear is related to, I mean, like, the day the music died, right? The famous plane crash that killed Buddy Holly and the Big Bopper, right? Big Bopper, Richie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very likely. I mean, like, I think there was a lot of musicians that died around this time in plane crashes. Otis Redding dies in a plane crash right around this time, you know, like, and Phil feels every one of those deaths into me. I think it's also a bit of, like, a control thing. I think Phil is a control freak in the truest term of a control freak. That makes total sense. So I definitely think that that was a bit of what was going on.

But I think also, too, he just has a natural fear of flying. So he arrives in London, and he immediately starts specterizing the Beatles recording. He added strings to it, dense production to McCartney's Long and Wining Road, which if you know now, like, McCartney hates that. McCartney released his own version of Let It Be that was, like, D.Spe. Spectorize, basically. Like, he took all of his production out and released that individual project

is like his own thing because he hated what Phil Spector did to it. In fact, he was so enraged. He sent a letter to side bastard Alan Klein demanding that the arrangement be minimized. Sophie, can you show the letter? This is probably the angriest letter that Paul McCartney has ever written.

He says, dear sir, this is to Alan Klein, Dear sir, in the future, no one will be allowed to add or subtract from recording of any of my songs without my permission. I had considered orchestrating the long and winding road, but I decided against it. Therefore, I want it altered to these specifications. Gives a list of some stuff. One is strings and horns, voices all noises to be reduced. Vocal and beetle instrumentation to be brought up in volume. Three is harp to be removed completely at the end of the song.

And four is, don't ever do it again. signed Paul McCartney Don't do it again This has to be like an unstoppable force and movable object thing because like Paul McCartney very rarely would anyone I imagine it this time

it's pretty rare for people to tell Paul McCartney other than other Beatles other than other Beatles what to do and the same has to be true of Spector it does speak very highly of who Phil Spector is that he managed to get away with all of this yeah that he could do this to the Beatles

arguably the biggest band. It's 1969. They're the biggest band in the world. Yeah. This is their last album to be released collectively. And Paul would never work with Phil again, but both Lennon and Harrison loved him. Lennon and Harrison both loved him.

I thought he did wonderful job. Well, no, good. There you go. Makes sense. He's mad. Paul is so mad. And a lot of people claim that he ruined the Beatles, right? but let it be sold 1.2 million in the first two days as a single

and it was the Beatles final number one in America earning them a Grammy. So, you know, there's certainly, I honestly, I listen to Paul's, I listen to Paul's version of the Long and Winding Road versus Phil's. Maybe it's nostalgia that I just always feel that way,

but Phil's just feels more, more correct for what's going on. It feels still very George Martini. It doesn't feel like they stripped the soul of the original, like, or the mid-decade Beatles albums, like the 66-67 stuff. It feels real, right? Right. So I get what Phil was on, and I can respect that.

I think it was still a really great album. There's some really cool stuff about it. So they finished work on Let It Be, and Spector set to work on another Beatles project. This time, the solo effort of George Harrison. This is when Phil. starts actually drinking again. Normally he's the perfectionist in the studio, but George matched his perfectionist attitude,

and he's scared he's not going to be able to compete with the other Beatles, right? Like, Paul will release a record of John, and it will overshadow him. So he makes his first record the record. I imagine he wasn't worried about Ringo, but yeah. Yeah, no one would. I mentioned John and I mentioned Paul.

That's what I said. Very clearly mentioned just John and Paul. Nobody's worrying about old octopus under the seed bullshit. Look, everyone, I figured out how to make a dimmer switch. I don't know why that's my ringer. So this starts a Jekyll and Hyde personality with him. He would endlessly abuse studio personnel for his own humor. One night he gets so drunk, he falls off his chair and hurts his arm,

and then he can't go to sessions for like a few days. Classic. Also, who hasn't? Who hasn't? Who hasn't had to miss work for a day or two because you got drunk and fell. I've gotten suddenly ill and had to delay podcast recordings with Sophie, of course.

For sure, absolutely. Because we're adults, and that's what adults do. That's right. Eventually, he returns to America, he leaves George to finish the album. He kind of is like, oh, you know. And George complains that he's being inattentive. And he doesn't like that Phil is doing this,

But he does, regardless, finish his record. And all things must pass was released and spent seven weeks at number one. And he's the first Beatle II chart post breakup. Good for him. He is, I mean, all things must pass is a banger of a record. It is top to bottom. It's a no-skip album. It's amazing.

And it's nothing like the Beatles, which is the most interesting thing about it, is like the fact that he put out a record that was not reminiscent of any of his work really with the Beatles. in any way. He was very Ravi Shankar influenced at this point in his life. He's into spiritual. He's literally doing Harry Krishna songs and stuff, you know? Yeah. So for that to be seven weeks at number one, pretty impressive, you know? It's a great album. In September of the same year, John Lennon returned from America. He was staying in America. He returns from America. And he brought Phil into Abbey Road Studios to record what would become the Plastic Ono band album. In contrast to Phil's previous work, he

listened to John's direction and made a record of sparse arrangements. It perfectly matched John's words and the tone of the lyrics and everything. So in John, Phil found a kindred spirit, and the same for John, right? John had this belief that

tortured geniuses, right, are always the tortured part of that, right? They have, there's something that makes a person a genius and it's usually incredible tragedy. And of course, John had his own mother died. John was a victim of tragedy himself,

oftentimes in the Beatles. Yeah, he shows. You know, he had a hard life as well. And so he kind of thought both sides of this, him and Phil kind of kind of kindred spirits, right? Right, right.

Yeah. We're both kind of giant assholes to the women in our lives. This probably helps us bond. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I get you, bro. Yeah. I do him a piece of shit sometimes.

So, Klaus Vorman, played base on the George Harrison record and the John Lennon record. And he said there's a stark contrast of tone between Phil for George Harrison and Phil for John Lennon, you know? Interesting. And also, Mick Brown,

who wrote the book Breaking Down the Wall of Sound that I referenced for a lot of this, he mentions that Phil got along with Yoko Ono really well as well. And he relates this a lot to the same thing as the way Ike Turner gave Phil his space to work work when he was working with Tina. He was like he was so respected that even the controlling member of their lives was like, yeah, yeah, let Phil do his thing, you know?

Yeah, yeah, that does say a lot. That says a lot, a lot, you know? Like, those people are famously controlling of the other's careers, you know? So in the meantime, Ronnie is in New York. She thinks her career is over. And Phil flies her out to London and says, hey, actually, George wrote a son. song for you. He wants you to sing it. And so she flies out there and she gets into it and unfortunately it flops again. And she's like, all right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm done. I'm done.

Right. Yeah. John Lennon's album did not flop, but only managed to reach number six in America and number 11 in the UK, which is a pale comparison to Georgia's success. And with John seeing what he perceived as the weaker writer's success over his, over his, right, he pulled back on releasing music and starts supporting Yoko's career more at the time. They reunite to work on Imagine, which we listen to an exact copy of today. Yeah. And despite it being a legendary piece of work, it wasn't really well received. And Phil retreated again into semi-retirement and did not record any music for over a year.

On Christmas 1971, Phil surprised Ronnie what they said, a five-year-old twin boy. who he had adopted without her knowledge. Jesus Christ. He went through. Jesus Christ. Awesome. Awesome. Surprise adoption.

It's better than surprise knocking someone up and having two surprise kids. Yeah. I don't know. Or is it worse, actually? Sort of. It takes a lot more thought to adopt secretly two kids. You got to sign so much paperwork to adopt kids. It might be, you're right, it might be worse.

It might be worse. I'm coming back. She thinks. they're adorable, but she doesn't really want anything to do with them because, you know, his behavior is becoming increasingly erratic. He's worse and worse all the time. She's just, like, her whole life is just story after story of horrible things. Like, I could do an entire episode just on Ronnie Spector and the horrible things that happened to her.

Yeah. Cool. Phil's behavior, in January of 1972, he's arrested at the Daisy Club in Beverly Hills after a woman called the police to report that a small man in a karate jacket. pointed a gun at her. That sounds like Arfell. That's the description. A small man in a karate jacket?

That's like the most insulting thing I can possibly imagine being called. I love it. I love it. Police arrive promptly and found Span, Beverly Hills, you know. They arrived promptly. Fine Spector with a handgun in his waistpan.

And he was charged with a misdemeanor and received a $200 fine. Wow. All the good old days of brandishing a weapon and getting a simple misdemeanor fine. Yeah. If only. Just a few months later in the middle of the night, Ronnie escaped with the help of her mother. She was forced to escape barefoot because Phil didn't let her have shoes.

And she had to leave behind her kids and all of her possessions. Wow. But, Robert, do you know who won't force you to have been in your home in the middle of the night, barefoot with nothing to your name. Well, hopefully not the sponsors of this podcast because they're kind of how I got my home. Yeah. They could give it and take it the way, I suppose. Canadian women are looking for more.

More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHeartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

I'm Lori Siegel and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear our technology. tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world. From power to parenthood. Kids, teenagers, I think they will need a lot of guardrails around AI. This is such a powerful and such a new thing. From addiction to acceleration.

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favorite shows. Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing Along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leveh, Mavis Staples,

Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy, really too many to name. And this season, I've sat down with Alessia Cara, Sarah McLaughlin, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Josh Grobin. You related to the Phantom at that point. Yeah, I was definitely the Phantom in that. That's so funny. Share each day with me each night. Each morning say you love me.

You know I... So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing Along on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

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So when we last left our hero, his wife, Ronnie, had escaped into the night with no shoes and fear for her life. She filed for divorce and surprisingly Phil walked away completely amicably and gave her everything that she asked for. Okay. Weird. Sike. Sike.

Okay. Okay. Okay. You got you. You got you. You got me for a second. You did. No.

He's a weird enough guy. I don't know. No, he was an absolute asshole about every single aspect of their divorce. Just days after she fled during a telephone call, Phil informed her that all her clothes were in a trash can on La Ciena Boulevard. been there. She files for custody of Dante, but not to twins, for obvious reasons, and cited the dangerous nature of the mansion

and Phil's collection of guns and temper for the reason. At the time, Phil kept numerous guns around the house and had up to five guard dogs, as I mentioned. The mansion was surrounded by tall fence, barbed wires, signs everywhere. He's super paranoid, obviously. Yeah. So Phil retaliated by claiming that Ronnie was unstable, and what did he use as evidence of her instability?

Why those frequent trips to rehab that she took. Oh, my God. And she barely is even covered in guns all the time. So she's clearly not thinking about those kids' safety. I've got three on me right now and I handed one to the kids. So the court orders Phil to pay for Ronnie's temporary lodging and provider with support. He wrote a check for the first month, but the second month he had to be a check. three armed guards deliver $1,250 payments in Nichols

to her lawyer's office. What? Oh, it would be a dick, just to be a dick. Sure. For the record, 25,000, that's 25,000 Nichols, 25,000 Nichols, and it weighed 275.6 pounds. I did the math. He sucks. That's such a petty dick move.

Three armed guards, two of them with shotguns, to deliver $1,250 in Nichols. Now, look, have I been petty, before. Have I, for example, been treated badly at a private gym that I went to and mailed them a box that exploded into glitter? Sure. Absolutely. Have I mailed anime shit when I had a bad experience at a small business that I specifically hated the owner? Perhaps. Allegedly. Would I do this? Well, maybe. Maybe. Yeah, yeah, I might actually do this. This again, you know, it's like, This sounds pretty funny.

Yeah, I do think about this all the time. I just hope I never owe anyone that much money. Yeah. But here's the fun, to me, this is the funniest thing, right? Right. Because, like, I mean, I didn't do the math on what the quarters or pennies situation was, but he chose Nichols, right? He could have chosen dives.

He could have chosen pennies. He had options. He would have been way more. I assume that he was like, okay, well, that's a lot of pennies. And he was like, maybe too much. And they were like, well, actually, if you do that, we're going to have to have forearmed guards. And he was like, ah, that's a waste of money.

Yeah. At the beginning of August, at the behest of her lawyers, Ronnie checked herself into psychiatric care and spent several weeks there. Then on September 14th, her lawyers were called to the Beverly Claret Crest Hotel to deal with her in an intoxicated condition. Heavily with the finger quotes here, right?

Intoxicated condition. She was lit. She said she drank a lot, and she was just screaming in the lobby, right? Yeah, probably, okay. A few days later, they're called again when Ronnie nearly killed herself, after passing out with a lit cigarette

and setting the bed on fire. Oh, my God. She drank a full fifth of vodka by herself. Oh, honey. And then said she was getting a little nap. Yeah. Nap with a cigarette. She was unharmed, fortunately, you know, for the most part.

But she didn't have to go to the hospital and everything. That's good. That did kill a lot of people back then. Yeah. You know, but obviously she's going through. This is taking its toll on her for sure. Side note, that's part of why they made. They changed how they made both beds and, like, couches.

There's new fabrics they use on all of those because of how many people burnt to death smoking and bed and on the couch. What do you mean, Robert? You mean that all those spontaneous combustions that just stopped recently might have been a manufacturer's issue? The internal mystery. What caused the human combustion? Was it all of the smoking? Was it a lifelong smoker? Was it all the smoking?

Was it smoking next to cock? that were just pure liquor? I don't know. Weird. Crazy how that happens. Yeah. So right after this, she tries to fire her lawyers, right? And end her divorce proceedings, right?

But in one of the rarest moments of lawyers being amazing people, they refuse to be fired. They say, we don't think that you are making sound decisions. This is not what you want. Our conversations with you have said that this is not what you want. want. You are under mental distress right now, and we want to make sure that you continue with this divorce proceeding because this person is bad for you. And she does. And she, she rehires them or whatever the hell, and they move on. Okay. She reversed course again, continues with the divorce. It takes another 18 months to finalize the divorce. She received a $25,000

payment in addition to $2,500 a month under the condition that she never disparaged Phil in public. Um, she also would, uh, Phil would receive control over her master recordings and most of the publishing leverage and the ability to limit Ronnie's access to her own hits. That's fucked. That's fucked up. That's fucked. Yeah. That's, I mean, it has been great before, but that's, that's really bad. He takes away her ability to make money, making her dependent on his money.

Yeah. Right? And, and, and then also she has no control so he can do whatever he wants. It kind of robs her too, like, not just of her money, but of like... Her future. The things probably... And also just, like, probably some of the stuff she's proudest of. Like, this stuff that she made that was hugely successful and influential, she has no control.

Like, that also has, as a creative, that's like a knife, another knife. Yep. She's got a lot of knives in her. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, so he has to send her a check every single month. And every single month... Oh, she doesn't get custody of the children.

And he has to send her a check every month. And every single month, he sends her a check. And he writes, fuck off on the back. So she has to write her name underneath. So it says, fuck off Ronnie Bennett every single time she catches a check. This man, this man could give classes. Yeah, like, fucking. Smallest man in the world.

I have never, ever heard of this level of pettiness in a relationship. Super petty. Super petty. But Ronnie's free, you know? And she looks back on this, you know, it's like she, she says she escaped their divorce. And she was happy to escape it with her life. Like she was happy to be done. Yeah.

So shortly after the divorce, Spector was brought in again to work with John Lennon. Things had been extremely rough for John Lennon in the years following the Beatles' breakup. He's fighting the government for his right to stay in America. fighting his bandmates. He's fighting his wife for money. Like, there's, everybody is fighting for his money, right? Yeah. In one of the strangest situations ever, Yoko's sense that John was working towards cheating on her. And rather than lose him, completely, she opted to pawn him off on one of her friends. Oh, interesting. I didn't know any of this. Yes. So it's basically a sanctioned affair, right? It's like, you're going to do this anyways.

Let's just, May, will you just like be his little fling for a while or whatever? he's living outside of his means, but he convinced the label to give him $10,000 to record an album of standards, and he enlists Phil to produce. Okay. So when he worked with John previously, he's on their turf,

and he's got to do their things, right? But now they're in Los Angeles and he's doing his thing, right? So he brings in his favorite musicians, including the sons of his idol, Barney Kessel. Remember Barney Kessel? Yeah.

His mom embarrassed him in front of him? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He brings in, his kids, right, they come in and play on this record. We're going to talk about them in a minute. He developed a joy for amyl nitrates. Robert, you're a big fan of mammal nitrates? Like coppers?

Yeah, they're poppers. Who doesn't love a good amyl nitrate every now and again and again? May Pang remembers that he just smelled like old socks all the time. Is it because he's huffing him out of socks? No, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. But she just says he smelled like old socks. sucks. Okay. Or VCR cleaner, I guess. I don't know. Anyway.

He'd show up wearing a holster, right, with a gun in it. He'd show up and he'd dance around with his guns off. He's 35 at this point, right? Yeah. It's like, he's, he's a grown-ass man. He's a grown man. Yeah. John, he, John would drink vodka straight from the bottle and, because he's depressed. And Phil would drink this wine called Manashevitz, which is basically like Yeah. It's like a Jewish ceremony wine, you know? Right. You can get it in most grocery stores.

I don't recommend it. It doesn't taste good. Nobody says that it tastes good. I've never had it. And I was going to just get a bottle of it for the episode. But you know what? I'll just drink whiskey instead. We'll play everybody's favorite game.

It's not expensive, but it's not good. It tastes like grape juice with alcohol in it, but also the grape juice is bad. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. So really shitty wine. They'd explode into arguments about the direction of the music and things were often hectic.

One night, Elton John comes by and he's hanging out for like a little bit and he's like, I gotta go and he leaves and he tells the guy that brought him, he's like, what the fuck was going on? They're like, yeah, they're just like that. They're just, and he's like, I'm so glad we left.

Like, this sucks. Yeah. Phil would, because they're arguing all the time, Phil started dressing in ridiculous outfits. He'd show up dressed like a captain or dress like a pirate or like crazy, like just random outfits all the time. He'd show up dressed like a waiter or something, you know,

just look ridiculous. But then eventually they'd get drunk and then they'd fight. One night Chuck Barry comes by Phil's house to meet with John, and John's a big fan of Chuck Barry. Like a lot of the Beatles music came because of Chuck Barry. Yeah, I mean, obviously. He helped invent the kind of music they do. Phil is just in the other room playing music so loudly that no one can hear anything.

And so Chuck just gets mad. Madden leaves. Yeah. Which, by the way, presumably so that he could go watch P.P. Tapes or traffic an underage girl across state lines because he's a... Side bastard. Yeah.

If you don't know, Chuck Barry. He was a founder of rock and roll other than, you know, Big Mama Thornton and, you know, Sister Rosetta's art. He helped to found rock and roll and found a lot of the bad things rock and roll musicians did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He is one of the reasons why the. Man Act was so successful was because he actually was trafficking a 14-year-old girl across state

lines for purposes of sex. And he got convicted, which is crazy. Yes. He sentenced to three years in prison for said crime. He was a black man, so he got convicted as opposed to being a president. Yes. Yes, yeah, absolutely. As things go.

As things tend to go. So Phil would always play games with John's fragile mental state and everything. He'd call him or John would call him when he was supposed to be at the studio and he'd be like, yeah, I'm on my way. And then he just wouldn't show up, you know? And John's like wasting money on this studio shit, which, by the way, we find out later that Phil has been kind of grifting the whole thing. He's paying for the sessions himself so that he can maintain control of things and so that

he can bill John's label. It's a whole thing. We'll get to it in a second. But, so one night, John gets blasted, right? He gets shit-faced. And him and another guy, his bodyguard, take him to Lou Adler's house where John was staying. And they tied him to the bed. And John thinks they're going to rape him.

He thinks they're going to sexually assault him. And he freaks out. Like, he loses. He gets a black eye. Like, they fight. They physically fight. Like, I don't know. John was obviously very.

very drunk. Like, they don't, it's not, it's not insinuated that that was actually, that a sexual assault was actually going to happen. But for whatever reason, John thinks that that's what's going to happen. And he freaks out. And they, they tie him to the bed. Oh, probably not a good way to make him not think that's happening. Yeah.

Yeah. And then he eventually, like, gets out or whatever, but they leave and, uh, and Phil has to wear makeup on his bruised eye for a couple days and stuff. Jesus. The sessions are so crazy. that A&M studios evicts them from the studio. They're like, Phil's waving a gun around during session. This is too, too much shit, right?

Yeah. Fair enough. Something is going to happen. We don't think our insurance covers whatever you're doing. Yes. Right? And so they kick them out and they head over to record plan, which is especially hilarious if you know the... So record plan is this famous Hollywood studio.

There's a lot of record plans around the world, But the record playing in Hollywood is kind of a famous Hollywood studio, especially currently. It just shut down like a year ago. But prior to that, it was like the party studio. It was the Arizona State University of Studios. So the fact that they got kicked out of A&M, which is now owned by John Mayer and called Chaplin Studios or something like that, which is a very professional fancy studio to go to record plant that's basically like, yeah, we let people party. This is where at record plant Phil fires his gun into the ceiling of the studio

So record plan is like, yeah, we'll have you. And like, first night, he's like, what is the context? Is he trying to emphasize a point? Is it using it like a punctuation mark? Is it just an accident? So he gets into an argument of some type with Mao Evans, who is a famous like kind of fifth beetle situation

He's like their roadie. He's their fixer. He does everything. He's hanging out with John Lennon. He is very trusted by the group, right? Gotcha. And he gets into an argument with Phil, presumably about, like, hey, man, you got to stop doing some dumb shit or whatever. Hey, man, did you try to molest John Lennon?

Yeah. Something like that. Phil has, like, a measure of anger pulls his gun out. And he says accidentally fires his gun into the studio, which says something, right? Yeah. John turns to him and he's like, Phil, if you're going to shoot me, shoot me, but don't fuck what me he is.

He's like, I need them to listen with. Oh my God. What a great response. Honestly, that's a pretty bad. He's like, if you're going to shoot me, shoot me, but like, I need my ears, bro. Don't shoot guns beside my head, dick. That's pretty cool. I got to give it to him.

That's pretty cool. Everybody thinks Phil is just shooting blanks in these guns, right? Nope. But the next day, Mal Evans shows up to John Lennon's house with the bullet from the silly. he's like, here's the bullet from last night. And John's like, what bullet? He's like, the bullet that he fired into the ceiling.

And he's like, he's got bullets in that thing? That's a real gun? Yes, it's a real gun. Hey, right? So shortly after that incident, John returns in New York City. And one night he receives a phone call from Phil claiming that the studio had burnt down and they lost everything. So John's like, whoa, what was going on?

He calls the studio and they're like, I don't know fire. What are you talking about, man? There's no fire here. And then so he's like, what the fuck is going on? And then a week later, Phil calls again, this time, ranting about helicopters surrounding the house, right? He's like, there's helicopters surrounding the house, right? And he says, but don't worry, I got the tapes.

I got the tapes, right? And so John eventually discovers basically Philid paid for the entire session, which means in the recording world, if you pay for it, you own the tapes. The tapes are released to the person who pays for them, right? Okay. You own all of John Lennon's work. if you own those tapes, right? And so they get a bill from Phil's label for $90,000.

Right. Oh, God. And they're like, what the fuck? Apparently he's like, he's paying for all the sessions. And then he's doing the old classic rebuild at like 170% of the cost of whatever it is type thing. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That Hollywood shit.

Yeah. So when Bob Mercer of EMI Capital went to Phil's sunset office to retrieve the tapes, Phil chased him down a flight of stairs with an axe. Yeah! He's back to being cool again. The album wasn't released until 1975 with only five tracks produced by Spector and another eight that John recorded without him. So obviously a mess.

So I mentioned before Barney Kessel's two sons, Dan and David, they start hanging out with Phil during the Lennon sessions. And this is the first time that, they come to his house, and the first time they come to his house, he greeted them wearing a 38. And he asked him if they liked guns. Of course.

Yes, absolutely. They said yes, of course, because, you know, who doesn't? And he takes him into the backyard. In Hollywood, remember, and they spend a few hours shooting at old records. They idolize him. They love this dude. Like, they think he is the epitome

of the rock star mentality, right? And to be a fair, you know, he's like in his 30s. He's shooting guns. He's partying with John Lennon. Like, he is kind of a rock star. He's getting away with all sorts of crimes. Sure. He's kind of a rock star, right?

Definitely, yeah. He starts treating him like his kids, right? Which is fucked because he has kids. And he is currently locking them in their rooms and they're under the, they're under the supervision of a governess who doesn't let them do shit. Right. Meanwhile, he'd take the castles to Muhammad Ali fights and even took him to Vegas to see Elvis. and brought them backstage after the show to hang out,

which is super fun because he just didn't take Ronnie back to heat. Right, right, right, not his wife, of course. In their eyes, Phil can do no wrong. They love him, dude. To this day, they always like, hey, Phil was the best, right? You know, I mean, he's a legend at this point, you know? He's a legitimate legend. So he's veering out of control with his drinking and his relationships.

At one point, this writer, Roy Carr, is brought to L.A. from London with the task of writing a book about him. One night, in between telling fantastical stories like Bruce Lee was my bodyguard once and how he had worked as an undercover agent in Paris. Sure. Spector announced that he needed to pee and he gets up and walks out, only to come back wearing no shirt and a revolver in his waistband and playing the accordion. Right.

So one that we've learned about him is that no matter what he is or isn't wearing, he will have a gun. That's just a guarantee. Always got a gun on him. Always got a gun on him. Always got a gun on him and he's always doing something wild. He's like Frank from Always Sunny. Yes. Very much.

Picture him as skinny Frank. A very little man with a gun. He's a little man with always. So I started blasting him. Yeah. Just ready to shoot. So Carr says he couldn't tell what was fact or fiction when it came to Phil. But he does know that without a doubt, Phil has intense loneliness issues.

He would get mad anytime car would prepare to leave. He'd be working all day, taking notes. And he'd be like, okay, all right, well, time to go. And he would go, no, no, no, stay for a little bit longer. Stay, stay, stay, stay, stay, stay. Don't leave, don't leave, late. So he believes that Phil is even following him around town. One night, Phil's assistant was sent to pick him up,

and they get in the car and she looks in the rear of the mirror, and she sees Phil and the Kessel brothers in a Cadillac with shotguns. Jesus Christ. And they just chase them all over Hollywood until they have. escape, right? And then they just, there's no explanation given for why they did this. Like the next day they're like, Phil, why did you guys chase this around with shotguns last night? And he's just like, what are you talking about?

What do you mean? I didn't do that. I didn't sound like me. I always have a little gun. Another time, Phil picks up Carr and the Kessel Boys with some mysterious people in the car. And they fill the car with pumped shotguns and rifles. And then they go to this Cantonese restaurant where they ate dinner by the themselves all roped off in this little section.

And then after dinner, they just go back to Phil's house and Phil shot at a tree with a pistol for like an hour, right? Oh, yeah, okay, sure. Sounds like Phil. He's just living Levita Loca, bro. He got a lot of bullets with him to shoot for an hour, though. Yes, he absolutely did. When Carr returns to England, Phil tries to give him a pistol, and he's like, I can't

take a pistol through customs. Like, what do you? Every country doesn't just let you take guns there, Phil. So funny. In 1974, Phil is brought in to produce for Cher. You know, Share is in his life. But Cher is no longer with Sunny Bono now. She's with David Geffen.

And David Geffen had become her manager as well as, like, her labelhead as well as her boyfriend as well as, like, he's everything, right? Does he, like, even have any connection to the music industry or no? David Geffen? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, but here's, so here's the thing. Phil hates him because he's like, he's a kind of a nepo baby in the situation.

Like he doesn't know music. He doesn't, he's not a musician. He didn't come up that way. He came up through like the business side of the industry and he gets lucky, he starts dating share basically, becomes her manager, becomes a label head, starts getting all these positions of like authority and shit. And Phil hates him. Phil despises him, right?

Interesting. And one night David Geffen tells Phil, hey man. And maybe you should try this with Cher's song. And Phil punched him in the face and told him to get out of here, you fucking F slur. Great. Okay. Ooh. Ew.

Share is like, Phil, what are you doing? Chill the fuck out. And Phil does. Right? And they just go back to work, right? And that's like the type of way Phil is. He'll just haul off and punch somebody in the face in the studio. Call him a slur and then get right back to work.

You know? All in a day's work. You know? All of the days work, look, he puts his gun on one gun at a time, the same that you do. Same as all of us. Phil dated after Ronnie left. One of those women is a woman named Devere Robatai. She starts as his assistant, then becomes his lover, right?

She was married when she starts working with him, but Phil's crazy hours and, like, constantly having to, like, ruins her marriage. And then one night after their, you know, kind of flirting, office flirtation or whatever, Phil walks her to her car. gives her a kiss and now, you know, now they're dating her. But he's always mistreating her. He'd be super sweet and loving and then all of a sudden begins screaming and calling her name. One night during an argument at dinner, he dumps a bowl of noodles on her head.

So they go through this cycle where it's like, yeah, he's just a shit, dude. Noodles. They're at dinner and he's just like, yeah, she's being a huge ass on. Take noodles, yeah. And so she can add. He'd noodle or noodle.

Sorry. She'd get mad. Boo, that dad jokes sucked. So she'd get mad and quit, and then he'd send her like a dozen roses, and she'd, you know, forgive him and come back, and it just keeps kind of doing this, right? It's this, like, constant, like, revolving door of Phil Spector where he does something shitty, and then he gets super mad, and they have a big argument, and then he apologizes the next day, or makes no mention of it whatsoever. Like, sometimes she'd, like, he'd do horrible things, and then just the next day, be like,

what are you talking about? I didn't do that. I don't know. That just sounds like me. Yeah. Ladies, don't take back shitty little men. Yeah. One night, tempers flared and he grabbed a shotgun and put it to her temple, telling her he would kill her if she left.

She calmed him by telling him he's being silly and that he should open the door and let her leave. But as soon as he does calm down, she bolts out of there, right? But she does say she never thought Phil would actually kill her, but she did think he might by accident. Spilerler. Okay. Yeah. Not much better. Babe. Babe. Babe. In November of 1975, a parking attendant claimed that Phil pulled a gun on him and told him to get the fuck away from me before driving away. He pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor brandishing a firearm and two years of probation, provided he not own any more firearms.

Robert, can you guess who kept owning firearms? I'm going to guess it's Phil Spector. And I want to remind everybody, we talk about him carrying a gun ever. everywhere. At this period of time, there weren't really concealed carry laws in most places. Like, there were some ways if you were like a bodyguard, there were ways people could legally carry concealed guns in cities and stuff. But it wasn't like it is today. My point is that Phil was committing a felony basically every time he walked out the door. Yes. From this day on, he is absolutely committing a felony because he's not supposed to be carrying any more guns. He's not supposed to have any of them. He's not supposed to have any guns.

So Phil Spector then in the mid-1970s, he starts working with Leonard Cohen, right? And this is crazy for everybody in the world, right? Yeah. This is like, what's the, what's the, what's the, Jesse Wells, the little folk kid that sings in the field? This is like him working with Max Martin, right? Yeah.

It's like, it's like, you know, it's like, why would he be with like a pop producer? This doesn't make any sense. Yeah. So everybody's like, already thinks it's kind of strange, right? But Spector thinks, like, hey, maybe this will be like a really crazy, inspired thing. So they make the 1977 album Death of a Ladies Man. The Sessions quickly deteriorated into chaos, fueled by Spector's alcohol abuse, erratic behavior,

an obsession with dominance inside the studio. Cohen later described Spector as volatile and deeply intimidating, recounting an incident in which Spector allegedly pressed a loaded gun against Cohen's head during a recording session and declared Leonard, I love you. Cohen responded, I hope you do. All these rock stars have the coolest responses to Phil Spector putting a gun to their head.

That is really funny. Yeah, and honestly, of all the rock stars I expected to be cool with a pistol pointed at their fucking skull, Leonard Cohen's got to be top of the list. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. In another incident, Spector pulled a gun on the violin player, Bobby Bruce,

which, by the way, the violin player, like, yeah, I pulled, I pulled a gun on the guy that was, yeah, I was, I was pulling a gun on a daycare teacher, man, like, you're like the most innocent person you can find. It's like, there's

extra bad that you're, this guy went to school, man. It's like a gang enhancement thing on your sentence saying, where, you pulled a gun on a violinist, that's an extra five years. Yes, yes, absolutely. So Specter took control of the final mixes and didn't even allow Leonard Cohen to hear them.

He didn't allow him to be present. He layers all of his sounds into it and over Cohen's stripped down songwriting, which is what he is known for. And they made a record that Cohen doesn't even stand on himself. He doesn't think that it's very good. But Cohen said of his time with Phil, quote,

in that state he found himself, which was post-Wagnarian, I would say Hitlerian, the atmosphere was one of guns. I mean, that's really what was going on. Guns. The music was subsidiary and enterprise. People were armed to the teeth and everybody was drunk or intoxicated on other items. So you were slipping over bullets and biting into revolvers in your hamburger.

There were guns everywhere. That's one of those things where I have to assume that's like a joke for flavor, but also maybe someone hit a hamburger. Somebody was like, hey, I've seen some small revolvers and some big hamburgers.

Hey, hey, Leonard, I got you a hamburger. Oh, cool, thanks, man. What? What? What is going on here? When it was released in 1978, it was critically panned. Everybody hated it.

Spector claimed, this is one thing I love about Phil Spector, is anytime you shit talk Phil Specter, he will shit talk back and say like, yeah, I got hate mail from all eight of your fans. It's just so, so disrespectful. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. You guys really love it all eight of them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, while he's cultivating this brilliant and eccentric producer, his family home is horrible. He treats his kids horrible. So he, oh, real quick, when I was mentioning the Barney Kessel kids, Dan and David, how old did you get the sense that they were? They're hanging out, they're driving around, shooting shotguns out of Cadillacs.

16 to 20, maybe? Yeah, late teens, early 20s. 11 and 13. Oh, no. Why is he hanging out with children? When I was reading this, I was like, this is wild, man. This is crazy. Like, he's hanging out with these, like, teenagers.

I got them, like, same thing, like 17, 18, something like that. Maybe even early 20s. The way they're referencing the things that they're doing, driving around shooting guns, they're going, they're hanging out together, right? No, I looked it up, and his kids were born in, like, in, like, the late 60s, and they were, like, 11 and 12 years old. Let's go crazy. Meanwhile, he's treating his own kids horribly.

They have the governess is always on them. They don't, they're not allowed to do anything. and he's very rarely involved in any actual parenting except for when he is forcing them to simulate sexual acts on women so that they learn how to be men. Yikes.

One of those kinds, huh? Yikes. He's doing the classic like, no get over there and brings a girl home from the strip or whatever and it's like lay down and like takes control of the whole thing and like is making them simulate. They all report having gone through this. It is that, I wonder, is that more out of like a power, him wanting power, him getting off on it, or just him being such a narcissist that like if my kids are bad at sex, it reflects badly on me.

So I'm going to make goddamn sure they know what they're doing. You know, very fairly his kids kind of stayed out of the limelight. Sure. And they don't talk about a lot of this stuff. And I did see a few interviews with them. they resurface in later years and one of them tries to write like a book, I think, but it never gets off the ground

but it basically whenever like the dirt comes out, it's, he's horrible to them. He treats them the same way as he treated Ronnie. He's threatening them all the time. He's making them do crazy stuff. Yeah. They all develop lifelong issues with trust, identity and emotional stability.

Yeah. It's just, it's not, there's no guidance. It's all performance and it's all possession, right? Right. When John Lennon was murdered in cold blood in front of the Dakota building in New York City on December 8th, 1980, Phil was once again thrown into a world of depression. But this time he took it as a sign.

He always said that John moved too easy. John was too careless with how he acted, and it would be his downfall one day. And this just reaffirms it for him. Like, he's going to get killed if he doesn't travel with bodyguards and guns and all. all that stuff. Right. By the 1980s, he starts withdrawing from public life. He moves out of his Hollywood mansion and bought a house in the suburb of Alhambra.

He dubbed the Pyrenees Castle. Okay. It's a huge French-style mansion. It's enormous. It's out in Alhambra. It's out of the city of Los Angeles. He, you know, as was his style, he surrounds himself with guard dogs and armed guards and fills the house with guns.

Guns that he's not allowed to have. Yeah, illegal guns. Sure. So for a brief period, Spector attempted sobriety, and acquaintance describe him as calmer and more reflected. The stability, though, is temporary. Every time he relapsed, he gets crazy again. And I think a large part of this stability was due to his relationship with Janice Savala.

Phil first met her in the 60s when she was a teenager and eventually hired her to work for his label. After his split with Ronnie, he would date her on and off again for the next 15, 20 years, and eventually he would give birth, she would give birth to two twins, Nicole and Philip Jr. And contrary to his relationships with his other kids who are now adults at this point, Phil treated him wonderfully. His daughter Nicole says that, you know, he was a doting father, that he loves spending time with him, that he was always around for his kids.

But in 1991, this is now well removed. from his music career in the late 50s, early 60s, and into the 70s. Philip Jr. dies from leukemia, and Phil. Phil goes back into deep depression and insanity. Yeah, well, of course. Nicole remains devoted to her father throughout the rest of her life, always claiming that he was her hero.

He never raised her voice door. She says he was amazing. Phil rarely grants any interviews. He remains a recluse, rarely leaving the house, and never without a bodyguard. He hired Hal Blaine, who's the... the drummer from the wrecking crew that he had employed. He hired his daughter to be his day-to-day, you know, manager or whatever.

And was generally pretty kind to her. And everything's set for Phil to just ride off into the sunset and be forgotten as as a nobody. Until Mick Brown shows up in his life. Mick Brown is the author of the book that I was describing that I got the primary source from all of this. Mick Brown's book is one of the most authoritative, you know, biographies on Phil Spector. It is brilliant.

It has everything. It's a very good book. I highly recommend. He's the primary source of my research. And he's probably one of the, besides me, probably one of those knowledgeable people on Phil Spector in the world. And he managed to get an interview with Spector in December of 2002. He recorded the entire interview on tapes and they painted a picture of a deeply troubled and

eccentric man who was likely suffering from mental illness. His article was titled, the mad genius of Phil Spector and questioned whether the madness was part of the genius or just something that had gone unchecked because of his genius. It was a deeply intelligent and honest look at Phil's life, which

angered Phil. He broke what many said was a decade of sobriety and began drinking and acting erratically again. On February 2nd, 2003, just two weeks after the article came out, Phil Spector began his evening at Dan Tan as a longstanding Hollywood restaurant and bar known for attracting entertainment industry regulars.

He took a high school friend out for dinner and began drinking heavily before taking her home and then returning to Dan Tannis and starting to drink with his waitress from the night. Oh boy. He was heavily intoxicated by the time he left for the House of Blues in Hollywood. Yeah, when you leave with your friend and then come back to keep drinking with the waitress, that implies a level of drunk that is, yeah. But if you're going to do it, it's not Danas. If you'd have to be in the troubadour for a little bit.

Yeah, it's a good night. Sure, baby. So it was then that he would begin his fateful interaction with the hostess of the Foundation Room in the House of Blues, Lana Clarkson. And this is the end of this episode. We are about to get into one of the most storied and important nights in musical history.

But for now, we are going to plug our plug-up which I have a podcast. It's about music stuff. It's the most poorly produced podcast in the entire world. We need a Sophie so bad. We would crush with a Sophie, but we are incapable of doing things ourselves, so we just forget to do it.

But I do have a podcast. It's called That Sounds About Right. I have a recording course that teaches you the principal's recording, and I have a label, and by the time this song comes out, our very first artist on the label, we'll release her single.

So please check that shit out. Her name is Violet Lux. The link will be in my bio, Greasy Will on Instagram. It'll be all over the place. But I am a rebel of the music industry and I need your support. So love me and care for me.

And also you are on all sorts of the internets as I write OK. That's right. And you also sell merch at places. Some places, probably, presumably. We're both. We're both. Googleable, just be an adult and use Google, man.

Use Google. Do you know what I think is interesting? Everybody keeps discussing about how chat GPT uses like a tablespoon or a teaspoon of water every time you search. Nobody is mentioning that Google is automatically using AI to search your answers. So Googling now is also using that same amount of water. Let's be mad about everything. Type in minus AI with your Google searches and it'll cut that part of it out. I don't know if it actually reduces the energy usage, but it's,

At least you don't have to see the summary. It's still logging all your information. It's still logging all. Yeah. And it knows everything you're doing. So that's why I stay off the real internet. That's right. That's right.

That's right. I still use Netscape Navigator. It does not work well. That's what I'm relying on is my technology being too outdated to spy on me. That's right. That's the secret. Old Mozilla Firefox. This is the end of the episode, guys.

Okay, we're done. Bye. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit Remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode.

For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com, slash at Behind the Bastards. bastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking. I'm Lori Siegel, and this is Mostly Human, a tech podcast through a human lens. This week, an interview with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to the products we put out in the world. An in-depth conversation with a man who's shaping our future.

My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, host of the On Purpose podcast. My latest episode is with Noah Kahn, the singer-songwriter behind the multi-platinum global hit stick season and one of the biggest voices in music today. Talking about the mental illness stuff,

it used to be this thing that I was ashamed of. Getting to talk about this is not common for me. Right now I need it more than ever. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?

I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian. Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is love trapped.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 10 shots, 5, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.

A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics. I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten. and a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.

Listen to Roershack, murder at City Hall, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.