Behind the Bastards - Part Two: George Lincoln Rockwell: The Most Racist American in History

Episode Date: March 13, 2019

In Part Two, Robert is joined again by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to continuing discussing George Lincoln Rockwell. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science?

And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest? I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's X and my Y's? I'm Robert Evans. How was that intro, guys? I actually solidly approve. Thumbs up all around the room. This is a podcast where I talk about the worst people in all of history.

Tell you what you don't know about them. Today is part two of our epic three-parter podcast on George Lincoln Rockwell. The founder of the idea of neo-nazism, the inventor of holocaust denial, and the world's first free speech warrior. Oh god, it's unbelievable. My guest today, Cody Johnson. Katie Stoll. How are you doing? We're so good. Still so good. Now, we have a new sponsor who has not paid us a dime, but who I will be shilling for nonetheless,

because Cody, you realize that the tagline written on the product is hilarious. Hazelnut Coffee Mate by Nestle, and according to the box, one pump, one cream. Oh yeah. One pump, one cream. One pump, one cream. Hazelnut. One pump, one cream, one love. So you heard it here on Behind the Bastards, buy Nestle Coffee Mate Hazelnut and think of semen.

One pump, one cream. One pump, one cream? I'm not a hazelnut fan. Neither am I. I don't like Coffee Mate, but I think it's funny. I really hope Coffee Mate had stopped listening by that point. The check was already in the mail. That'll do it. Could you not read our one pump, one cream slogan on your channel?

I wonder if they use that same slogan for products other than the hazelnut. One pump, one cream. I wonder if they know what they did. Someone knows. Speaking of far right extremists, that could work as the slogan for the proud boys who don't masturbate. That's true. Because one pump, one cream. Yeah, no pumps, no cream.

No pumps, no cream. Proud boys. Speaking of the proud boys, let's talk about their ideological great grandfather. Can't wait. George Lincoln Rockwell. Love him. I'm gonna say it up front. Wait, scratch that.

Don't love him. There are going to be a number of, there were slurs in the last episode, there are going to be a number of slurs specifically directed towards black people in this episode. I do not say, and will not say, the N-word, but I will read a couple of the other slurs that are used, usually just once, and then I will refer to them euphemistically thereafter just so that you understand what's being said, and so I'm not unduly kind of cleaning up the ugliness here. So it's kind of a sweet spot.

We'll try to find it. Thank you, Robert. Let's dive into it. Much of George Lincoln Rockwell's career as America's premier racist involved him following in the footsteps of Martin Luther King Jr. and basically trolling America's premier civil rights icon. On January 18th, 1965, when MLK held a voter registration drive in Selma, Alabama, George Lincoln Rockwell was there too, in his own words, cause agitation and run Mr. Coon out

of town. That was Rockwell's nickname for Dr. King. I will use Mr. C from here on out. He also called him Martin Luther, you can guess. Yeah. Quote from Rockwell, Mr. C is a pro and I ran him out of Danville, Virginia and I believe I can run him out of Selma. The only technique is to show these communist type agitators how ridiculous they are.

Now, Rockwell put together a- Sorry, they're a ridiculous wolf in the sky, they're so silly. Rockwell put together a cutting plan to ruin Dr. King's voter registration drive. His first idea was to try and convince the city fathers to declare the day of the drive to be in word day. Oh my gosh. Real creative. He wanted to hang banners across the entrances of the town that said welcome in words to sea day in Selma, of course he used the full slurs in both cases.

Wait, so it was called both, it was different names. Two slurs in the banners. That's poor branding. That's poor branding. Now I don't know what terrible thing it is. Now I don't know what terrible thing it is. Which awful thing. Yeah, they're never going to find you on Google that way with George Lincoln Rockwell.

Come on man, come on. Jesus Christ. Yeah, get it together. For some reason, the white city fathers of Selma did not think this was a good idea. So I just have to reiterate here, this guy is too racist for both the 1960s FBI and the white city fathers of 1960s Selma, Alabama, the town that shot black people with fire hoses. That's pretty intense.

They listened to Rockwell and were like, whoa buddy. I mean like we hear you, but like whoa. Right, it's not even like don't say that stuff out loud, it's like don't say that stuff. And sure like we also, we're going to send a letter to try to convince him to kill himself. We're going to have them beaten and jailed. Yeah. We're like the law and order types of racists. Next Rockwell suggested creating a special sea day in Selma menu for restaurants to give

out to jig integrators, and that's the last time I'll use that word either, when they demanded service. It's painfully uncomfortable, not at all the wacky stupid racism of the second KKK. Remember the second KKK. Oh, those were the days. Those were the days. Those things were lighthearted. Those silly people.

Those people. Those LARPers. Those LARPers. Rockwell was whatever else, not a fucking LARPer. Rockwell was probably the greatest big in America has ever seen, the patron saint of racism. Here is part of the menu he wanted local restaurants to adopt. Is this going to be like if you have like a viewing party for like Breaking Bad and you

like do puns on all the food? But it's racism? Yeah. Yeah, but it's with racism. You sound so excited. I sound excited, but I'm really not. No, I don't even want to read it, but I'm going to. And again, I will be euphemistically referring to those slurs in all cases here.

The restaurants of the city extend a warm welcome to all seawards, J-words, inwards, apes, baboons, and any other jungle life seeking to enjoy communist race mixing benefits promised by Martin Luther Seaward. In honor of the occasion, our chef has lovingly prepared a special menu of the favorite inward foods. We ask only that our seaward guests refrain from snapping at waiters or nibbling on other guests while waiting for service. The menu he prepared included, quote, hot stuffed, deviled, Jew Sammy Davis Jr. special.

He thought Sammy Davis Jr. was a Jew. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But that came up a lot. But. A common misconception. That's a terrible name for it.

That's not it. That's too many words. Sammy Davis Jr.? The name of the. The Jew Sammy Davis Jr. The Jew Sammy Davis Jr. Like why do you just call it Sammy Davis Jr.? I know.

I know. I know. That's much better. Let's not. I don't want to give him notes on his racism menu. But like. Let's not like armchair racists. That's fair.

That's fair. Well, I don't think we need to improve on this menu. This was not popular among local business owners either. He also tried to get local businesses to print out posters to put in the windows of every business in town, but no one was willing to do that either. Rockwell also handed out dozens of A&P Hayton Annie records. These included such hit songs as ship those inwards back and wheeze nonviolent inwards. He hoped that local restaurants and bars would put them in their jukeboxes, but nobody obliged

him in this either. That's good. And it plays racism, rock and roll. Yep. Of course he plays racism, rock and roll. It's George Lincoln Rockwell. He does Rockwell. He does Rockwell.

He does Rockwell. I had to use it. He doesn't deserve it, but I couldn't. No, he doesn't. He doesn't deserve anything. No, no. He deserves one thing. And it comes at the end of this episode.

Oh, yeah. One tears. So Rockwell was able to get enough donations to fly Robert Lloyd, one of his most loyal stormtroopers, into Selma with a hideously racist ape costume. Rockwell's goal was to get Lloyd close enough to Dr. King to cause a spectacle that would get him on TV and presumably drum up more donations for the A&P. Tragically, for the Nazis, Lloyd was caught by the police before he could find Dr. King. He was arrested.

Next, according to the book For Race and Nation, quote, Rockwell went to the courthouse to bail Lloyd out and bumped into King, who was attempting to register blacks to vote. Now, I rate Rockwell blasted King with all the venom he could muster. He poked the stem of his corn cob pipe at King's face and asked him if he was man enough to stand up non-violently and debate him so he could prove to the world that King was using the local inwards, not helping them. We got to it, Cody. Wow.

To me, bro. They're doing it. They're really making it happen. Dr. King actually agreed to let Rockwell speak at the meeting. He rescinded the invitation after a completely different racist who actually hated Rockwell too, assaulted him for trying to register at a hotel. When Rockwell was turned away, he demanded entrance to the church where Dr. King was doing his meeting.

The police arrested Rockwell for disorderly conduct. Now, that probably sounds like a disaster, but it was actually totally worthwhile for Rockwell and for the A&P. Yeah, it was. In his face to face confrontation, he had with Dr. King became national news and earned the Nazi party the attention and donations that Rockwell craved. Debate me, coward. Debate me, coward.

Debate me, you coward. Mm-hmm. You got these two awful sides and they're like, hey, I'm not the King Jr., kill yourself. And the other one's like, debate me. And they both mean the same thing. They both mean the same thing. Like they have the same goal. To destroy it.

To put the one thing right. Ugh. Let's think for a second just to cleanse our pals. What an incredible human being Dr. Martin Luther King was and how much he achieved. That's a nice thing to think about. Yeah. Like a little break, mental break here. Yeah.

Just like. What a nice idea that you just had. He changed the world in an incredible way. Yeah. Like black people couldn't use water fountains and he galvanized a movement and there were a lot of other people involved obviously who sacrificed and did a lot as well. But like just a great human being who will be remembered long after Rockwell has been forgotten.

Yeah. Perhaps. He did. Yeah. Cultural icon. People talk about it. Not better. More than any president.

More than any other figure. American figure. I see. Put them on the 20. Put them on. Hell yeah. Leave Lincoln on the five. Sure.

Put them on the one too. Put them on the one. Yeah. Put them on most of the monies. Put them on most of the money. A lot of people quote them incorrectly these days. Yes they do. When they talk about free speech and try to get people to debate.

Yeah. There's a lot. Yeah. Because also like it's good because like Rockwell not many people know about them or know much about them. Yeah. And that's technically good but at the same time it's real bad. People should know.

People should know about it. The stuff that he did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Palate cleanser. Okay.

Palate cleanser. That was nice. Yeah. That was nice. Yum. Yum. As this want to be American fewer, spat racial hatred and lurid anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, the American Jewish community was far from silent.

We're talking about 20 years after the death camps were shut down. There were Americans in their 30s and 40s who had survived Auschwitz. There were thousands of Jewish American war veterans who had literally killed Nazis with machine guns. These people were not about to let this motherfucking Nazi try his fascist bullshit out in another country. However, no one could quite agree on precisely what should be done. Some groups, like the Jewish American war veterans organization, landed solidly on the

punch Nazis end of the scale. And they did quite a bit of that. But most Jewish people backed a completely different strategy. I'm going to read a description of the evolution of that strategy from the book American Fever by Frederick Ciminelli. In the 1940s, Dr. Solomon Antel Feinberg of the American Jewish Committee devised a strategy of containment against that era's most flagrant anti-Semite, Gerald L. K. Smith. Feinberg initially called that strategy dynamic silence, or the silent treatment.

He later renamed it quarantine, a term he believed more accurately described the process. The quarantine strategy included two key components, coordination among major American Jewish community organizations to minimize public confrontations between an anti-Semite and his or her opponents in order to deny the anti-Semite a dramatic event that would invite publicity and the dissemination of information on the background and tactics of the anti-Semite to the news media in an attempt to convince the media that in the absence of a violent confrontation between an anti-Semite and his or her adversaries, there was little newsworthy in what the anti-Semite had to say.

The strategy intended to, quote, prevent the rabble rouser from becoming a serious public menace by depriving him of the publicity he needs to increase his audience. Yeah. It's a good strategy. A solid plan. Feinberg advocated for this strategy heavily and succeeded in getting the Jewish community to adopt his plan against Gerald Smith. It worked splendidly.

But in 1958, after Rockwell created Wolfens and the National Committee to Free America from Jewish domination, no one was quite sure what to do. This was a new kind of racist, a trained PR expert who knew how to work the modern TV and radio media. Rockwell said in an interview near the end of his life, quote, when I was in the advertising game, we used nude women. Now I use the swastika and stormtroopers. You use what brings them in.

Well, yep. William Pierce, one of Rockwell's most prominent stormtroopers and a guy we will be talking about in Part 3, described Rockwell's strategy as concentrating, quote, the activities of his small group under circumstances especially chosen to provoke violent opposition, anything and everything to gain mass publicity to become generally recognized as the opponent of the Jews. So he wanted them to fight him. This was part of why he decided to turn Wolfens into the American Nazi party.

He wanted he and his men to wear swastikas, lots of them, specifically because it was the best way to trigger Jewish people. He believed, quote, upon seeing the swastika, Jews lost their cold calculating reasoning abilities and became hysterical, screaming with fear and rage at the American Nazi party. This reaction led Jews to unwittingly aid the movement. While moving to stamp out Nazism, they were forced to give the party free publicity. Some Jews, particularly Jewish war veterans, obliged Rockwell by flipping out and trying to crack his fucking Nazi skull, which I understand.

There were numerous brawls at various A&P events, speeches and protests over the years. Often the Jewish veterans would wind up tangling with the police who tended to surround the smaller number of A&P men in order to protect them. Another thing that never happened again. This worked for a while, but a little over a year into Rockwell's career as an agent provocateur, that fine bird guy, the architect of the quarantine policy, succeeded in getting the American Jewish community, or AJC, to back his plan. Now, these guys were not just saying, ignore them and they'll go away.

This was not just being like, oh, just ignore them, just ignore them, they weren't just saying that. These guys were activists. Representatives of Jewish community groups would go to newspaper editors, radio and television producers before big Nazi events. They would urge the media not to cover the story. Letters exist to show how this effort went and they were always very cordial. The goal was to convince the paper to stop their coverage, it was not a threat.

The Nazis did claim that Jewish community groups threatened to boycott newspapers and the like who reported on Nazis, but there is zero actual evidence of this ever happening. The Washington Post, for example, broke the quarantine and suffered no reprisals. In March of 1960, Rockwell wrote the post a letter, saying he planned to speak at the Capitol Mall. He invoked the specter of left-wing violence against his totally peaceful demonstration, stating, quote, some citizens have been threatening us with violence and forcible suppression of our peaceful right to address our fellow Americans according to the law.

Now this was patent bullshit. Rockwell absolutely had violent intentions. Immediately after that rally, which turned violent, he sent a letter out to his supporters and regular donors saying his goal was to quote, provoke and aggravate the Jew traders beyond endurance. We only knew they would attack, but we sought their attack. Our activity has been successful beyond our wildest dreams, and all of it has been aimed not at education or waking people up but at gaining power and then and only then can we

exterminate the swarms of Jewish traders in our gas chambers. I want to talk about a little story, something that happened to me in December when I was in Portland watching a rally called the Hymn to Rally, which was a response to the Me Too movement by members of Patriot Prayer and the Proud Boys. So after their rally, which was cordoned off and heavily protected by police, they took a very long circuitous route back to their cars and were surrounded by a group of anti-fascists, and most of those people yelled but some of them threw things, including bottles, which eventually prompted the police to use flashbang grenades on the crowd to disperse them.

After this altercation, which was heavily videotaped and photographed, my cameraman was right behind Joey Gibson and one of his right hand men as they walked away and caught a snippet of conversation in which the guy looked to Joey and said, that could not have gone better. There it is. There it is. I mean, that's what I'm thinking the whole time you're reading this, that is what they want.

When we talk about how do you deal with the Proud Boys or deal with any of them, you have to keep that in mind, that playing into their hand. And I do want to say there is something to be said, like it's also worth noting because this, what's happening today is not entirely the same as what was happening back then. When there aren't large groups to confront them, we see what happens in New York City where they start randomly assaulting. Right. Well, then there's that.

There's people there for protection. Yeah, exactly. I'm not saying anti-fascists like street activism is useless. I am saying this is part of a very old strategy. Right. Right. Just understanding like you're playing into their plan and you might need to. Yeah.

You might need to because they might try to beat the shit out of somebody. But you have to like keep it in check and like have that awareness. At least understand, yeah, that that's where they're and always frame it like that. Because then it's like, that's actually great that that is on camera. Yeah. But it's not the only time that we've seen those sort of, that mask sort of slip off or like even like the Proud Boys explicitly say like, yeah, go get into fights, go provoke them.

That's how you rank up. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's a. I mean, Patriot Prayer's motto is fuck around and find out. Right. Yeah.

That's like their goal is that they want to, they want to trigger you. They want to make you mad. So you get upset. It's almost like, like, fasc, do you care about your feelings? What? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Yes.

It is like that. It is like that. Just trying to, just trying something out. Trying to tie a couple of things together. Yeah. Just a little bow between a couple of things. It's pretty cute. I like that.

I like that. It took me a second. I like that. Now, for the 4th of July, 1960, Rockwell planned a rally in New York City. This provoked outrage, which of course earned Rockwell publicity and donations. The quarantine broke down completely when Rockwell was denied a permit to march. According to the book, American Führer, quote, his cause became the cause of free speech. His name appeared in newspapers almost daily and his appeal made its way through the courts.

On June 22nd, 1960, an enraged mob, including many survivors of Nazi concentration camps, attacked him, but he was saved from serious injury by the quick action of the police. This was widely seen as a disaster by members of the Jewish community. David McMrenals, of The Village Voice, wrote that the violence of the crowd did more to promote anti-Semitism than anything Rockwell himself could have possibly said. Now, I don't know if I agree with that, but it shows up political moderates of the nation. As Rockwell's free speech case made its way through the court, coverage continued to roll in, even though quarantine advocates continued to plead for everyone to just stop writing

about George Lincoln Rockwell. When an appeal overturned the ban and Rockwell was actually issued his permit, he never even bothered to pick it up. He'd gotten what he wanted out of the whole mess, publicity and a shitload of donations for being a free speech warrior. Tony Ulasowicz was a New York City police officer. He was the guy who protected Rockwell from an attack during that June 22nd, 1960 thing. He wound up regularly spending some time around them as being part of their escort and stuff.

He later recalled seeing, quote, two big mail sacks full of letters at the A&P headquarters after that event. He said, quote, Rockwell needed the publicity to get his contributions in. To get around some of his financial difficulties, Rockwell described how he randomly picked targets for his rallies. Once he publicly announced he was coming, the public's fur as he put it would stand on end. Local newspapers, radio and television would give him just enough publicity to guarantee

the delivery of four or five stacks of mail to his doorstep. Rockwell said he received a lot of Atta Boy George letters with dollar bills folded up inside the envelope. He said just the threat of his coming was good for a couple of grand. Literally what Joey Gibson does, literally puts a donation plea into every single thing about a rally. But I won't talk about Portland anymore until we get a little bit further in it. Right.

Okay. You know what it is? Speaking of donations, I guess? That's not right. One pump, one cream is an ad for Nestle Coffee Mate, the one pump, one cream source of cream pumps that- For your hazelnut. For your hazelnut.

Sex is funny. Here's some ads. During the summer of 2020, some Americans suspected that the FBI had secretly infiltrated the racial justice demonstrations. And you know what? They were right. I'm Trevor Aronson, and I'm hosting a new podcast series, Alphabet Boys. As the FBI sometimes, you gotta grab the little guy to go after the big guy.

Each season will take you inside an undercover investigation. In the first season of Alphabet Boys, we're revealing how the FBI spied on protesters in Denver. But the center of this story is a raspy-voiced, cigar-smoking man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse was like a lot of guns. He's a shark. And not on the good-bad-ass way. He's a nasty shark.

He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science.

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Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the summer of 1999, a young woman in South Carolina disappeared in the middle of the night. Her name was Brooke Henson. Seven years passed. She was presumed dead. And then a tip came in that would turn the entire investigation on its head. He said, I think I found your girl. She's alive. She's in New York. And I said, really? According to this tip, Brooke was now a student at Columbia University. But the small town detective on the case in South Carolina, he didn't believe it. So he kept poking around.

I said, I'm calling about a girl you might know named Brooke Henson. And he said, I wondered when you were going to call. When my son brought her home, I knew she was troubled. The detective ultimately became convinced that she was a master of deception, a spy. But who was this woman really? Listen to deep cover on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. Hey. Hey, Nazis.

Rockwell was very happy with how that whole rigmarole had gone. In one of his regular comments, he taunted Feinberg and the AJC, saying they had, quote, spent millions of dollars to spread the word among the Jews to ignore us. But, he claimed, their anger and need for revenge had gotten the best of them. The result is the lifeblood of a political movement, publicity. This is something Rockwell wrote about quite a lot. In 1961, he came to the conclusion that, quote, the problem of building a political organization, in spite of the enemy's utter mastery of all means of communicating with the masses is, first, the problem is reaching

the masses. Any way at all. It does not matter how you reach them at first, so long as they come to know you and the fact that you are at the opposite pole from those in power. It's just all, it's just so familiar. It's like deja vu. Everybody else is ripping off George. Yep. A bunch of cheap diet imitations. Yeah. A bunch of George fans up in here. Mr. Pib of racism. Oh, yeah. Put your Mr. Pib's wish in there. They would deck your pepper. Generic cola. Mr. Pib is a better beverage. I agree. I'm just talking about brand recognition. I like that. But I guess the real Dr. Pepper would

be George's dad. Sure would be Doc Pepper. I mean, Doc Rock is such a good name, guys. That's our musical. It's like cop rock, but with doctors. And a couple of cops, probably. Hot cops. Hot cops, for sure. So while George was busy building the playbook that every other fascist grifter in history would shamelessly crib from, Feinberg was not sitting on his ass. He had supporters write articles endorsing the quarantine strategy and pointing out that publicity just got Rockwell donations. They stated that, quote, the most effective way of combating the Rockwell menace is to literally starve him out. Quarantine can be made effective if we deny him publicity,

we deny him money. Gradually, he convinced people of the wisdom of his strategy. There were more fights, largely with the Jewish war veterans, but by 1961, Feinberg had succeeded in drastically reducing the amount of press coverage that Rockwell received. The quarantine was never total. Some stories always came out. But Feinberg considered success to be a measure of degree. And the summer of 1961 saw Rockwell attract way less media attention than he'd gotten back in 1960. By the end of 1961, the commander had started to get desperate. When some members of Congress urged a Department of Justice investigation into the American Nazi Party, Rockwell saw this as a huge opportunity. He welcomed the investigation.

Because it would give him a chance to show up in a full Nazi uniform and spew his conspiracy theories in the halls of Congress. Feinberg knew this, and he actually begged the US Attorney General Robert Kennedy not to investigate the American Nazi Party. And he got his way. In 1962, when Rockwell applied for a permit to march in Philadelphia, the local Jewish community initially wanted to lobby to have his permit denied. Feinberg wrote them a letter begging them not to interfere with Rockwell's speech. Quote, you risk Rockwell's getting civil libertarians support all the way to the Supreme Court and the publicity attendant thereon. Without quarantine, any anti-Semite could become a national figure in short time.

He'd only be dramatic and have plenty of opposition. Here, too, Feinberg succeeded. Rockwell got to give his speech, and no one cared. He did not make the news. From that point on, with some occasional failures and lapses, the quarantine against George Lincoln Rockwell held. This prompted him to veer towards the only reliable income stream left to him. The college lecture circuit. From 1963 on, this was his only consistent source of income. He never failed to draw a sizable crowd. Much of the media attention he received for the rest of his life was for the protests and fights that occurred outside these events. Now, Feinberg did not worry as much about Rockwell's campus speeches, mainly because

he just didn't think college kids were dumb enough to fall for the Nazi shdick. This proved to be true. College lectures were good for money, but Rockwell himself knew that they would never get him what he wanted. He wrote, quote, you can't convert people's attitudes by lecturing and reasoning. Attitudes can only be changed through emotional engineering. That is the key thing. It doesn't matter what the emotion is. Love, fear, hatred. As long as there is an emotion in a person, I can change him. When I agitate in uniform, I want people to hate me. I want them emotionally worked up. Smart man.

Yep. Smart man. Hate him. Smart guy. Real, real bad. Hate him. Don't respect him. Don't like him. Don't like him. Not a fan. Smart guy. Not a fan.

And so, as the 1960s went on, Rockwell attempted a variety of garish and bizarre stunts. He did a cross-country road trip in a converted Volkswagen he called the hate bus, giving speeches and harassing civil rights advocates like the freedom writers. I gotta, yeah, one of you described this fucking bus. One of you described this fucking hate bus. I mean, it's, it's, it says a hate bus several, several times. It's your classic VW bus, as stated, that you would associate with a hippie, a free-loving protest, a bunch of surf bums. And then you, you look closer. I mean, it says we hate race mixing. It's, it's right there. We do hate.

What a bad bus. What a bad, what a terrible bus. It's terrible bus. You know, that's. He also had a racist dog that escaped at one point. A racist dog? Well, he said the dog was racist. Oh, he said it was. When the dog was, when the dog like escaped, he tried to play it up as like, well now some

Jewish family like has a dog and they don't even know it's racist. But it's like, dude, that dog's not racist. The dog just didn't want to live with Nazis. The dog was like looking for his freedom. Yeah. I think it's really funny that. The dog's name was gas chamber. Oh. Oh, weird.

Is that true? Yeah, that's true. No. Oh. Yeah. I mean, not after he found a new family. Your gas chamber. Hates it. Do not like unsubscribe to everything you've said so far. Were, were you about to say about that hate bus, Cody?

I think it's funny that the hate bus, well, a, hate isn't quotes. Yeah. So it's quote, hate bus. But it says several times, Lincoln Rockwell's hate bus. Yeah. He wanted to make sure that you knew it's his hate bus, not all the other hate buses. Not all the other hate buses. This is Lincoln Rockwell's hate bus. It's branding. There's a lot going on in that hate bus.

Yeah. Real, real fun time. Should use GLR. Yeah. I agree. In 1965, the Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party held elections for three representatives. They attempted to seat the three women who won during the roll call for that year's opening session of Congress.

It was an act of protest, basically protesting the fact that, like, there wasn't good black representation in Congress. So we're going to elect our own leaders and we're going to try to sit them in Congress and, you know, they'll get kicked out, but it'll get, it was, it was a smart idea for a protest. Sure. It generated a lot of publicity. Rockwell attempted to suckle some of that publicity for himself by having two of his men, including that guy Lloyd, with the gorilla suit, show

up to watch the proceedings. Lloyd managed to find an empty room and changed into his incredibly racist costume. There's a picture. That's from a cover of Stormtrooper magazine, where this was written about, I got to give this one to Cody, since I gave you the bust, Katie. No, I'm not offended. It's a smaller image, but it's ghastly, right? That is, that is blackface.

Yeah. When I first read it was like, oh my God, the headline, no, no, no. U.S. Nazi in blackface, ridicules Mississippi N words in Congress, is the, is the title. It's the title of the article. It's the title of the article. In Stormtrooper magazine. In Stormtrooper magazine. I know, it's shocking to find racism in Stormtrooper magazine. Yeah, I can't believe this. Let me see, I want to see.

It's hogging that thing. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that'll be up on the site, behindthebastards.com, because the slur is pretty small. It's a small image, but it's, I mean, it's there. It's something that happened. So, Lloyd sprinted from his changing room directly into the halls of Congress. I'm going to read a quote from Four Race and Nation. Lloyd raced out of the room and down the hall to the exclusive stairway that only members

of Congress use. He bolted up the stairs to the lobby level, past two slouching policemen. As he neared the chamber entrance, a black doorkeeper spotted him and moved to block his path. But Lloyd, running at top speed, slammed his shoulder into the man, went through the door and jumped into the well of the house, donning his stove pipe hat. He yelled, I'm not going to use, he yelled this in like a racist diction, trying to like, yeah.

I'm the Mississippi delegation. I demand to be seated. Members of the house were stunned by the intrusion. Total silence filled the room as Lloyd jumped and danced, making unintelligible monkey noises. Sounds legitimately crazy. Yeah, sounds legit. I mean, he was a mentally ill man. Lloyd was a mentally ill man that Rockwell used to do stunts.

Yeah. Yeah. But still, that's like, yeah. The thing that happened. That's the thing that happened. I'm not getting into it in this because there's just so much to cover, but the book for Race of Nations is a good job of talking about the kind of people who became Rockwell Stormtroopers and they were all pretty broken individuals.

Not all of whom would stay Nazis their whole lives. That's good. Yeah. The event was considered such a propaganda coup that a picture of Lloyd made, yeah, the next month's cover of Stormtrooper Magazine, which we just looked at, stunts like these succeeded in drawing up some publicity and some donations, but the American public's short attention span ensured their interest inevitably faded with time. Rockwell continuously searched for a way to get people emotionally worked up.

The next year, 1966, was a time of great unrest in the United States. There were numerous riots across the East Coast. Near the end of that year, in Chicago, the housing authority made the decision to try and relieve some of the overcrowding in their ghetto by expanding public housing to some of the less populated parts of the city. However, the less populated parts of the city were white. These people were infuriated at the idea of maybe living close to black people. Martin Luther King Jr. showed up to try and help the people make the world a better place,

do the things that Martin Luther King Jr. did, and so Rockwell showed up to try and stoke the fires of racial resentment for power and profit. He gave a speech at Marquette Park where he said, quote, you're working every day to pay taxes to breed little black bastards. You're subsidizing Negro mothers who produce this little black scum for pay, and then when they don't have any place to live, they want to come and take your house and neighborhood. Yep. Yep.

Notice, he did not say the n-word there. He's learning. He did not use a racial slur there. Good for him. Hey, this is good for him. Good for him. This is part of a tactic that works incredibly well. Yeah.

Now, this all came in the middle of a schism within the American Nazi party. Rockwell had come up with a brilliant slogan, something he thought would really take off among the American public. You want to guess what his two-word slogan was that he invented? America first. Be best. White power. Oh.

What? Upsetting. Real innovator. Wow. I really had no idea. That's impressive. He's done so many things. He did so many of these things.

Wow. He's the guy. Formative. That's... Oh. Ooh. Like... Invented neo-nazism, holocaust denial, trolling colleges for free speech purposes to raise

donations, and white power. That's so crazy. And we're not done. Such a big legacy. Are you going to add to the list? Yes. Did he start saying like, it's okay to be white and like painting that on like college campuses too?

Not quite. Not quite. Ooh, not quite. But kind of. But you can see how this is the seed. Yeah. Man. Did he sell brain pills?

He would have been selling brain force plus if he could. Absolutely. He was so sawdust in capsules. Lead and lisy. Oh my God. Yeah, I get that soy intake. Oh God. Speaking of brain pills, although that's actually one of my hard lines for advertising

is I won't sell brain pills. No brain pills. I'll sell a lot of other kinds of pills. Oh yeah. Because I love pills. Sure. But not brain pills. I understand.

It's ads time. Oh, yes. Products. Services. One pump. One cream. One cream. One cream.

During the summer of 2020, some Americans suspected that the FBI had secretly infiltrated the racial justice demonstrations, and you know what? They were right. I'm Trevor Aronson, and I'm hosting a new podcast series, Alphabet Boys. As the FBI sometimes, you've got to grab the little guy to go after the big guy. Each season will take you inside an undercover investigation. In the first season of Alphabet Boys, we're revealing how the FBI spied on protesters in Denver.

At the center of this story is a raspy-voiced, cigar-smoking man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse was like a lot of guns. He's a shark. And not in the good, bad-ass way. He's a nasty shark. He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday.

I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI. How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus. It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In the summer of 1999, a young woman in South Carolina disappeared in the middle of the night. Her name was Brooke Henson. Seven years passed. She was presumed dead and then a tip came in that would turn the entire investigation on its head. He said, I think I found your girl. She's alive.

And I said, really? According to this tip, Brooke was now a student at Columbia University. But the small town detective on the case in South Carolina, he didn't believe it. So he kept poking around. I said, I'm calling about a girl you might know named Brooke Henson. And he said, I wondered when you were going to call when my son brought her home. I knew she was troubled. The detective ultimately became convinced that she was a master of deception, a spy.

But who was this woman really? Listen to deep cover on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We are back. When we last left off, Rockwell had invented a slogan called White Power, and he was flirting with what the author of Furation Nation calls the Nazification of the American Nazi Party. Did you say the Nazification or de-Nazification? De-Nazification. Hey, you got to tone it down.

So there were two. But yeah, Rockwell's side was basically like, we need to be a little bit less explicit about the Nazi stuff, because that's not getting a vote. So we need to focus more on white identity and getting white people behind us. Also something we see today. White identity politics. Interesting. Yeah, yeah.

But wait, I thought that, okay, but according to Jordan B. Peterson, a doctor, the right didn't start playing identity politics until very recently, in response to the left. Well my first question with that is, was 1966 recently? No, no. Really? Not according to. It was a while ago. Fascinating.

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So that's interesting. I'm confused then. Is it possible he's disingenuous and playing from the same handbook as the Fuhrer of the American Nazi Party? No.

No. No. Not Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. No, no, no. So it's possible, but it's not probable. It's not probable. It's not probable. Not probable.

Speaking of not probable, George Lincoln Rockwell's incredible success in Chicago. So he had t-shirts and placards printed up with the phrase white power on them. He worked the phrase into his speeches in Chicago, marking the first time the white power slogan was ever used. That's crazy. One of his stormtroopers, John Patler, also coined the phrase, the color of your skin is your uniform, which if you spend a lot of time listening to Nazis talk about their apocalyptic race war fantasies, that line comes up all of the goddamn time too.

Oh geez. Yeah. Yeah. The goat. The goat. Yeah, he is the goat of American racism. He's definitely earned that. He's earned that.

We're not being sassy. The wote. The wote. The wote. I mean, wote on is like a- We could do goat and keep it gross of all time, grossest of all time. The grossest of all time. There we go.

There we go. I don't know. I could probably do better, but I'm on the spot here. Gross old ass hole. Yeah. Truth. Old ass time. Old ass talker.

Right. Gross old ass talker. We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. It's there, it's there. Chicago marked the first and only time Rockwell and his Nazis saw mainstream penetration for their rhetoric. Stoking the fires of white fear and resentment of black people worked way better than anti-Semitic

conspiracy theories. On August 6th, 1966, Martin Luther King Jr. led a group of marchers through Gage Park. He was met by an enormous crowd of counter protesters, organized and radicalized by George Lincoln Rockwell. They numbered more than 2,500. The crowd carried placards and banners emblazoned with Rockwell quotes like, Join the White Rebellion and We Worked Hard for What We Got. Thousands of furious voices shouted white power at King and his comrades.

They threw things. They assaulted them. It was a violent attack on Dr. Martin Luther King and his marchers. One of King's comrades at the time, a guy named Andrew Young, later recalled, quote, the violence in the South always came from a rabble element. But these were women and children and husbands and wives coming out of their homes and becoming a mob. And in some ways, it was far more frightening.

Luther King himself was shocked at the ferocity of the violence he and his marchers faced in Chicago, saying, quote, I've never seen anything like it. I've been in many demonstrations all across the South and I have never seen, even in Mississippi and Alabama, mobs as hostile and hate-filled. It was a huge victory for Rockwell. White power took off as a concept and as a slogan and still remains popular among shitty races today. Rockwell did not succeed in converting the whites of Chicago into Nazis, but he made

powerful inroads into radicalizing them. The Chicago Open Housing protests would prove to be the high water mark of George Lincoln Rockwell's career. Almost exactly one year later, on August 25, 1967, George Lincoln Rockwell rolled down to a laundromat in Arlington, Virginia to do a load of laundry. He forgot his bleach, and as he headed out to his car to go get it, two shots were fired into the window of his 1968 Chevy. He fell out and landed face up in the parking lot, dead from a gunshot wound to the heart

at age 49. The killer was not an anti-Nazi activist, or an aggrieved Jewish veteran, or anyone like that. It was John Patler, former U.S. Marine and one of Rockwell's longest-serving stormtroopers. The gun used, appropriately enough, was a German Mauser pistol. Patler and Rockwell had a somewhat contentious history. Patler quit and rejoined the party a few times and was distressed by many of the movement because he was a Greek, and thus not white enough for including some of the Nazis.

Your percentage is off, bro, sorry. He was also considered a suspected Marxist for reasons that are unclear to me. They're always suspected Marxists. Oh my god. So that was the best they got. Rockwell had also recently pushed him out of the A&P, and so it was, yeah. Patler was convicted of murder in the first degree. Rockwell's funeral was as controversial as his life had been.

As a veteran, he was entitled to a military funeral at a state cemetery. But the military would not allow his followers to wear Nazi uniforms or fly Nazi flags at a cemetery filled with American war dead, many of whom had died fighting the Nazis. Smart move. Smart move. Seems decent. Solid call. Seems like a decent thing to do.

I feel like once you become a Nazi, you've just invalidated your time fighting Nazis. So coulda not. Coulda not. Very good. Coulda not. I coulda done without it. At least there were no Nazi flags flying. Well, the Nazis tried.

The Nazis with Rockwell's body tried to show up and force their way in in Nazi regalia, which led to a six hour standoff with Rockwell's hearse and military police. Eventually the Nazis backed down and cremated Rockwell instead. Oh, okay. Yeah. There's a not entirely heartbreaking coda to this, although I guess Nazi getting shots not that bad either. Hitler got out of prison.

He was only in there for 20 some odd years, like 22 years, and his story is the closest thing to uplifting. You're going to get out of this whole mess. His son actually wrote the afterword for the book For Race and Nation. It is a heartbreaking and compassionate essay, well worth reading. In it he talks about his father's like abusive childhood, the things that a lot of the kids who became Nazis endured, the things Rockwell had endured as a child, and like how these broken people came to such a hateful.

It's a very insightful and compassionate look by someone who grew up with a dad who had done all this stuff. And in the essay, Patler's son relates this story about his father after he got out of prison. Quote, One night in Richmond, Virginia, after leaving a restaurant, my father stood silently by my car with his eyes frozen on the ground. In a somber tone, he said, I should have been with them. With who, I asked.

I should have been with Dr. King and the civil rights people back then, he answered. They were truly my people. Not those Nazis. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty heartbreaking. Yeah. That gave me chills.

Yeah. For his part, George Lincoln Rockwell did not leave much behind. His estate was just $257 in cash, a corn cob pipe, and a bunch of racist pamphlets. But Rockwell's real legacy would prove to be much more extensive and much deadlier than any fortune could ever have been. And that's what we will be talking about in part three of this podcast, the 60 year long spree of murders, bombings, and hatred that all sprung, sprung, spawned from the mental loins of George Lincoln Rockwell.

You could say, for him, it was one pump, a whole lot of cream. One pump, lots of cream. The cream does not stop coming. From that mainstream penetration. Full circle. Penetration. Oh yeah. God, that word just makes me so happy.

So I mean, what do you guys think about George Lincoln Rockwell? He's a shit. Not a fan. Not a fan. It is astounding to hear it all laid out like this and see how directly he is responsible. Yeah. Yeah, everything. Every single time I come on this show, you're just like, by the way, here's history, but

now. His ghost is thrilled. Yeah. And so many things. Yeah. So many of them. Yeah. What do you think he would be, he wouldn't be, would he be a Republican?

Would he be a liberal? Because liberals are the party of anti-Semitism. He'd be against Republicans, right? Well, he would not be for pro-Israel. I think he, yeah, I really have trouble telling with Rockwell. He'd be an intellectual dark Weber. I think that, I think he would not be, I think he would be kind of like Peterson, not explicitly political and that he wouldn't advocate for a party directly.

I think he would be more about trying to get an ideology across because that works better now. Yeah. He would be playing to the resentment and the grievances and stuff and sort of lifting up all the, like the logical next step of like the white power stuff, he'd be talking about like white identity, he'd just be a white identity person, like a mall in you, but more explicit Nazi stuff maybe. I don't know because I think he really wanted, he really wanted mainstream appeal and his

goal from the beginning, if you remember from the episode one, was to unite conservatives. Right. Yeah. So I think he would be explicitly political. I think he would be less explicitly racist. I don't even know if he came out around today, if he would be explicitly anti-Semitic. Right. He'd play it.

Because that doesn't play. He'd be like, he'd have some tea party faction within the party, he'd maybe go into politics and... I think there's a good chance he'd have been elected. Yeah. I did too. Right. I mean, look, we've got Steve King, we've got...

He was a good speaker, he was Kara's man. Yeah. Good speaker, handsome guy. Handsome guy. Smart. Very smart. Good at branding. Yeah.

And yeah, he'd play to that and he wouldn't be, yeah, as explicitly like... Yeah. He would have questions about what Rockwell would be if he were alive today, but one thing I know for sure is that he would have worked with Roger Stone. Yeah. Oh, yeah. One question only. Oh, my God, yeah.

They would have been thick as these. Yeah, they would have plans. They would have so many plans. What year did he die again? I think it was 67, right? Okay. Yeah, 67. You think he would have played up stuff with Milo or because Milo is technically, he's

Jewish, right? Yeah. I think... So, like, Rockwell, like, despised him, probably. I think he probably... He despised Sam Tom. I think the thing that would have amazed him, that would have made him despise Milo was Milo's...

Milo's attitude never had a chance of getting mainstream acceptance, because he's just too off-putting. And he doesn't care. Like, he's very non-committal to everything, and he's like kind of a chaos agent or whatever. Milo doesn't believe in shit. Exactly, yeah. Rockwell believed. He wouldn't have gone through the shit that he did, because he suffered, for example.

Right, right. He figured out that his pain... Yeah. ...would have helped him to be more of a Nazi. So I think he's... And I don't think... I think he would have been smarter than a guy like Richard Spencer, because I don't think Richard Spencer was very cunning.

No, he didn't play it well. I mean, he got the platform, he got that article about him, he was dapper, but he didn't play it well after that. He didn't play it well after that. Yeah, Milo doesn't believe in anything. Milo does not believe in anything except for having money, and I don't think Rockwell would have been... I think he might have used him at some point.

That's sort of what I mean. Like, not like, aligned with him, but just sort of like using the movement and the drive from it. I think Rockwell would have really gotten along with a guy like Steve Bannon, who is a clever political operator who believes the shit out of things. Yes. And to be honest, that's a more likely pairing than him and Roger Stone, because Roger doesn't believe in shit either.

Right, right. I would have liked Donald Trump. Yeah, he probably would have. He probably would have. Or he'd be president. Or he'd just have won in 2016. Right, he just would have been the president, yeah. He just would have been the president now.

It's a fair assessment, you know. Well, I mean, because they're playing the same game. No, he did not. He did not. He did dodge two of them, because he got shot to death. It's all that white resentment, grieving stuff, and Rockwell seems to know how to do it and to do it on purpose, whereas like Trump sort of like fell into it, because he just happens to be like a racist guy.

And you could see in the last year of his life, is when he really figured out, landed on like, oh, white res- That's my thing, the through line. That's the thing that everybody, yeah, that he can get out to go with. Do you have Steve Saylor? No. He's like a kind of like white nationalist kind of figure. He writes on V-Dare a lot, and he writes some stuff. The, it's referred to as the Saylor strategy, is an article he came out with like 2005 or

something like that. And it literally lays out like, here's what Republicans need to do. They need to play to white identity politics, they need to get these votes. He basically lays out like, and be anti-immigration. He lays out everything in Donald Trump's platform, basically, and his whole ideology. Great. And it's just like, yeah, here's what you got to do, just to bring it back real quick. At one point, Jordan B. Peterson, who hates identity politics, shared an article by Steve

Saylor, who analyzed a study about diversity that cut out half of the article and study that actually said diversity is good in the long run. Well, but that sounds like Jordan Peterson's intellectually dishonest, and that can't be the case. It can't be the case. There's another explanation. It's possible, but it's not probable. It's not probable.

If it's not probable... Then what are we even doing? I wonder. Quick, another cum joke. No, no more cum jokes. It's time for plugs of the plugables, so I'm going to plug... Now, as I mentioned in part one, this was originally supposed to be part of a five-part audiobook about where all this fucking right-wing terrorism comes from, because it's a weird

history. We didn't even get into Christian identity, which Rockwell ties into, which is also tied into Robert Bowers, the Tree of Love synagogue shooter, and a bunch of other... All of this stuff, you want it all laid out, is going to be on my audiobook, The War on Everyone, which I am backing right now on GoFundMe, so go to GoFundMe, search for The War on Everyone, drop a couple of bucks if you've got them, I will put out the audiobook, and I will use the money to report on fascism in the United States, and possibly conflict abroad, depending on how much we get.

It's doing great so far. I also want to thank everyone who's donated so far prior to this episode landing. It's been way better than I expected, and I'm blown away and driven to tears by the generosity of my fans, so thank you all so much. I promise to never sell Brain Pills. It's a good promise to make. I will sell other pills, because I love pills. Love pills.

Just not Brain Force Plus. You can check us out online as well at our Patreon, patreon.com, slash some more news, that's the YouTube show that we do, and then we also have a weekly podcast, where we talk about a lot of bad guys, a lot of current bad guys, and news, you know. The news of the day, the news of the week, news of the year. The news of our kind of buying Nightmare World. So yeah, Google some more news, and even more news, it's all around the place on Twitter. I'm Dr. Mr. Cody on Twitter.com as well.

Katie Stoll. Donate to some more news, Patreon, we're almost through the looking glass, we're straddling the looking glass. I write okay on Twitter, and again, my GoFundMe is the war on everyone, so check that out. Check out some more news, Patreon. Go to the fucking t-shirts, PogTeePublic, God, so many plugs, I'm so exhausted. Behind the Bastards, PogTeePublic, we have a website, BehindTheBastards.com, you can find us on at BastardsPod, Instagram, and Twitter.

I love about 40% of you, and 100% of people who don't. Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcast. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian-trained astronaut? That he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know, because I'm Lance Bass, and I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the Earth for 313 days that changed

the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science, and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest? I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday.

Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.