Behind the Bastards - Part Two: Jimmy Saville: Britain's Unending Nightmare

Episode Date: April 16, 2026

Robert explains how Jimmy Saville went from bike race commentator to pop music DJ and gatekeeper to the stars, and how much of Britain clamored to give him access to young girls as a reward.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

CoolZone Media. Hey, everybody. Robert here, and the International Academy of Digital Arts and Sciences have announced that three different Cool Zone media shows have been nominated for awards at the 30th annual Webby Awards. You can vote on these now if you just Google the name of the podcast and the category behind the bastards is nominated in the Experimental and Innovation Podcasts category. It could happen here is in the News and Politics Podcasts category. James Stout's mini-series migrating to America,

A Dream Worth Dying for, has been nominated in the podcast's documentary category. And you can find links to vote for each of these podcasts in the episode description and in the posts on social media for episodes that could happen here and Behind the Bastards. Thank you. Welcome Pod to Behind the Bastards cast Robert Evans with Courtney Kosack and Sophie Lichtenen.

How will everyone be? We are good. Is that good, Sophie? Did she decide to get in the trail? Yeah, I liked it. I just gave Anderson my dog like a really big treat and she's enjoying it, which makes me happy. Good, good. I just scarfed a bunch of trail mix.

Love that for you. Tidy it up slightly upstairs. Hey, Courtney, what's that cute? We're now recording part two. Courtney, what's that cute thing behind you? This, this is my book cover for Girl Gone Wild. Yeah. Do you want to tell the audience about it a little before we talk about a pedophile

Well, hopefully you listen to the first episode, but it is, uh, that would be weird if you didn't. That would be weird. Yeah, it's called Girl Gone Wild. It's about when I sold T-shirts on the Girls Gone Wild tour. It's about acting in independent films. It's basically about learning about what society thinks of women, which is a lot like this episode. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target.

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the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Sino Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon, Danny Trail, to talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench, featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic.

If without this group, I'm going to die. Listen to Sino's show on the IHR Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Well, I guess let's get back into it, shall we? Yeah. So when we left off, Jimmy had just tried his hand, or at least his legs, at becoming a professional cyclist, and found out that he wasn't quite good enough for that, but he was really good at being a weirdo. And that got him a gig commentating for bicycle races, right? So his first proper media job was calling races for the Daily Express because that was the newspaper that was funding the first tour of Britain race. Back in the day, newspapers used to have money and they would fund their support of stuff like big races and the like.

It's been a while since newspapers worked that way. That was like a pain laugh. That was like a triggered cackle. I was like, oh. But it wasn't all good because clearly that's how Jimmy Sable gets his fucking break. Right. So this newspaper that's funding the races he's doing, like sees, oh, this guy might have, this guy might have like it, you know, what it takes to be a star. So they make him a race commentator. And he is very good at that job. They pay him a sizable fee in 1954. And this jumpstarts his career as a bona fide celebrity. He becomes the face and voice of the Daily Express. And that starts to earn him attention from the BBC and from Radio One, which is the BBC's radio thing of a jigger. Right. Now, back then, the British media environment was much more restrictive than it is today. And the BBC has essentially a monopoly on legal radio play, right? You're not allowed to just have another radio station, right? You get in trouble for that. Now, as a result, the BBC is like, they're very much see themselves as cultural gatekeepers of like what should be acceptable and popular in Britain. And this pisses off everyone. Because people who run the BBC are old stuffy rich assholes and they have terrible taste in music.

And this is the moment in which pop music is starting to explode. You know, you have this period of time like the middle, late 50s, early 60s, where we've talked about this on our episodes about Phil Spector with my buddy Will, greasy Will. This is the first time in which teenagers are like a demographic that you're marketing towards and selling towards. and that music is angled heavily towards the teen set. Because previously, you go back 50 years, teenagers are all working in the minds or something. They're not dancing at party clubs or whatever. They're certainly not like a chunk of the populace that you are like trying to sell stuff to, right? That is also started to change right now.

Now, because the BBC has essentially this monopoly on what can be on the radio, there's this vibrant community that pops up of pirate DJs who are like very literally pirate DJs. This is some of very cool stories that come out of this because these guys are like living on boats and old defense platforms in the sea. Oh my God. Broadcasting youth music illegally to the island. It's fucking awesome. They're legit pirate DJs. Like literal pirates, yes. There is a movie called pirate radio that's at least ostensibly about this. I don't remember how good a job it did, honestly. I just remember it exists.

So the very idea, again, of youth culture is new and scary to a lot of influential people in British media because these are members of the upper class. And they're kind of worried, in part because everyone who's got money in the Western world is terrified of the communists, right? And so there's this fearful understanding that these young people have different values. Maybe it'll lead them towards like socialism and all these. these other scary things. And there's also just this aspect of this has never been a thing that existed before. Teenagers and there being a whole media industry geared towards teenagers, is it good, is it making them bad? Is it going to damage them? You know, there's a lot of

concern about that sort of thing. And unfortunately, the concern is focused on like the kind of music as opposed to maybe the people making the music and playing it on the radio, which is who they should have been scared of harming the youth of Britain. The music itself isn't really doing any damage. But I bring all this up to point out that it is very difficult and is a very strange and noteworthy historical fact that within this kind of sclerotic and very much like not welcome, not open to newcomers, not open to like different ideas, this like media culture, that a guy like Jimmy Saville becomes prominent because Jimmy talks like a working class man from Leeds. And he dresses, well, like this.

Sophie will show you one photo of the guy where he's got, like, he's wearing like a black, velvet mask around his face. He's got his hair slightly curled, his long white hair. And he's got like a lace fucking gauntlet around his hand, it looks like. It's hard to tell what is going on with his sleeve there. Yeah, he looks like a cat. Low key, low key, love the sleeve. And he's always, every time he goes out in public, every time he's DJing at an

event. Every time he's like broadcast, he's doing it because he's going out to these like races. He's always dressed weird in some way. He's always wearing costumes and he never talks about it. I hate to be the person. I would wear the shit out of that blazer with the lace cup. Yes. That's fine, Sophie. The mask is an improvement over the just the plain face. The mask helps. Weirdly enough. But you know. One thing that's important here is he never talks. about the way he's dressed. And when people ask him, he'll try to deliberately avoid the question. And he writes about this. I think it's because he knows basically if you talk about it or explain it, it's not nearly as, it doesn't, it's not nearly as interesting. If you just show up dressed like

a maniac and pretend like you're a normal person like everyone else, that gets you more attention. And yeah, that's what he's doing at this point in time. He learned his lesson from the coal mine situation. He really did. And part of what he's learned is that if you're dressed like a weirdo, not only does it get you attention and can it quote unquote pay off, but people don't poke too much around you. They're not going to look to see. No one's going to investigate to see if you're like a dangerous weirdo because they already know you're some kind of weirdo, right? That's something he starts to realize about this, about like dressing this way. Is it Weirdly enough, standing out and looking like a maniac diverts suspicion and interest away from his actual behavior.

That's interesting. Jimmy is immediately successful as a broadcaster. People love him, particularly teenagers. Even though by this point he's well into his 20s, he talks, he understands their slang. He talks like a teenager. He understands the music they like. He understands how they're spending their time because he socializes almost exclusively with teenage girls. And he's doing this because he is having sex with slash molesting them.

The legal definition is dependent upon the age that they are, again, as I've noted. But that's exclusively who he hangs out with. So he does understand them, right? And at the time, other people in the media are just like, well, he's the only one these kids seem to really like get. He understands the kids. And we know there's a lot of money there. So we better keep paying Jimmy Saville because he's the only adult we know who can communicate with the teenagers, right?

How old is he? Nobody thinks to go, and I wonder why that is. And I won't. No, no, no, not at this point in time. There's no, nobody's concerned about that. They are interested. Is he like mid-20s? Sorry.

Yeah, he's in his 20s. He's in like his mid-20s by this point. Okay. Mid-to-late 20s during this period. And part of what's happening is they're scared of the teenagers, right? This is a frightening and anarchic-seeming. segment of the culture and Jimmy can control them. So a big part of his early success in fame is his ability to convince people in the media who come from money and who are part of

this like, you know, this rarefied air of people who got to do that job back then that I can make these kids less scary and uncontrollable to you. I know how they tick and I can control them, right? That's why they're hiring him, right? So. So that's great. Basically, he provides these media elites in Britain at the time with a degree of control and predictability over a bunch of teenagers who scared the living shit out of them. Now, good stuff. Nothing like this has ever happened since.

His main job was still DJing and by this point he's helping to manage the Mecca dance hall. He is like the manager of the whole dance hall and he's often doing shows. And he hits upon the brilliant idea in 1955 of playing top pop hits. for his audience while they waited for the house band to rest between sets. So normally you just have the band stop and maybe you have a secondary band do something or whatever, but Jimmy comes in and he starts DJing and just putting on playing the hits for these kids. And he's really good at knowing what they want to hear and he's good at, you know, he's talking

in between putting on these songs, he's getting the crowd amped up. You guys know what a DJ does, right? But very few people are doing that at this point. He's one of the first generation. He's not, he'll often claim to have been the first. DJ, I don't think that's really true. But he's part of the first generation of guys doing this, right? And this proves to be extremely popular, and it earns him a promotion. So he's given a job managing a different, much larger dance hall in London. So he's now moved from Leads to London,

and he's running this big dance hall, and he's got access to this full-sized ballroom and the power and funding to try something more ambitious than that crude, gramophone wired to a speaker that he'd used previously. According to the book, in plain sight, he was connected to the company West Treks, who made turntables. And quote, he said he walked into the Palais, which is the dance hall he's running, to find an electrician fitting a record deck in the box from which the lighting was operated. He told the man he wanted two turntables and for them to be installed on the stage, one next to the other.

It was, he claimed, the first twin turntable system in history. Now, it wasn't. An article I found on CNN notes, commentators have pointed out they were available decades earlier. But he was one of the very first guys to do this. Jimmy is legitimately quite novel. I'm sure he saw someone else do it maybe, but there aren't a lot of people who did that before Jimmy Saville, who had a twin-turned-sable system running, right? Probably a black guy. Everybody in music's ripping off black people at this point. Yeah, yeah. But Jimmy does get that reputation as being like the first DJ to do this.

And he's got that reputation for quite some time. He also develops a reputation for always traveling with a security team of large and angry bouncers, which he bragged about for years using to brutalize people who stepped out of line during his shows. He had a zero tolerance policy, and he talks about this a lot in interviews and stuff. Because he really liked telling stories about having these big dangerous men beat the shit out of people at his command. Now, the fact that Jimmy was always surrounded by dangerous men was Davies suggests

probably due in part to the fact that at night he would pick out one or more of the girls at his shows to invite backstage. And he was scared of their parents, right? So Davy suggests he's kind of lying about the fact that he needed these guys to keep order in his shows. He wanted a bunch of scary big guys around him because he's fucking a bunch of teenagers and their parents get angry. Right? And at this point, this is when this stopped by the, I mean, it had happened at some point previously, but by this point, he's like 28 years old. It is no longer, even within the standards of the time, people think it's a bit weird

that he's pretty much exclusively going after like 16-year-old girls, sometimes younger. So he's molesting a bunch of teenagers. He's sexually abusing a bunch of teenagers. Some of them for in legal, I would say in moral terms, yes. In legal terms, a lot of these are still 16-year-old girls. And that is legal, right? This is important in terms of why nothing is done, right? So one of his first victims was Kathy Kirby, who became a prominent singer later herself,

but at age 16 went to see 28-year-old Jimmy Saville at the Palais. She claims he pursued her and her even younger sister, which is not legal. Now, she turned him down, but the next year, in 1956, Kathy got to perform on stage at the Palais and was invited to tour with the band leader, Bert Ambrose. and she says that she hit on Bert, but he turned her down because he was 40 years older than her. And I don't know if this is Bert actually

trying to be a good guy or just being creepy, but the way he frames, the way he explains turning her down, is that like you need to get some experience. Now, he may have just meant, I'm not going to get with a teenage girl that's fucked up. But she interprets this as,

oh, I need to go have sex with somebody else first, that that's what he wants. And maybe that's what Bert did want. I don't know the guy, right? But Kathy, because again, she's a teenager and she's using the logic of a teenager, decides not to say no the next time that Jimmy propositions her so that she can get experience. And again, she's 17 at this point. This is legal, right? But that's one of the first stories we have of she's very uncomfortable.

She's particularly uncomfortable that he's hitting on her 15-year-old sister. But she does eventually sleep with him because basically she thinks it'll get her in with someone in the industry she really wants to have a relationship. relationship with and work with. And this should get to you kind of how murky a lot of it is at this period of time. Right? This is this is not at all something we can talk about directly using all of our modern terms, right? Well, actually, people today love to cite that this was quote unquote normal back of the day. It's not normal, we can say, because again, she thinks it's weird that he's hitting on her sister, right? But she also doesn't think it's weird when she's 17 to hit on like a 40-year-old guy, right? So there is, this is a different time with different values. But what you should note is that

by this point in time, this early in the story, people note it's weird and that Jimmy likes them young and that that is weird even within a time period in which it's not nearly as abnormal for older men to have sex with much younger women, right? Even in that period of time, Jimmy is weird and gets a reputation for liking them young, women and girls, right? Because he's doing both. You know. Professionally, during this period, Saville seems to go from strength to strength. He starts mixing popular songs together when he's on stage in a manner much more familiar to modern-day listening as DJing.

But again, he's not interested in making music or the artistry of any of this. The appeal to him here is always control. Hence, once he turned his second dance hall into a hit, he started stopping shows regularly to announce smooch time in which he gave the teenage participants permission. to grind and make out with each other. This was totally novel. As one regular, someone who was attending these shows

as a teenager at the time, later told biographer Dan Davies, he was giving teenagers the chance to get together. Teenagers had the chance to hug each other and fall in love. It was a romantic, fantastic time. And I can see how for the teenagers at the time, this would be really nice, right?

You've got a culture that's much more repressed, and you're suddenly, getting this permission in a public space that like it's okay to make out with other teens, right? All right. Okay. It's like you're with your boyfriend. You're out at the club and he's like, okay, it's not you can all make out now, right?

It's very popular, I guess, is what I'd say. Like a lot of people. And again, he's not, this is, he's the one on stage. He's not making out with anyone at this point in time. He will after the shows. But what he's doing here, as much as a lot of these kids like it, is he's normalizing the fact that. it's like it's not weird to have sexual and and like romantic physical contact at what is his

place of work, right? And even though he's on stage when he's announcing smooch time, this is going to help to normalize what is going to become predation from a nearly 30 year old man to a bunch of largely 15 to 17 year old girls. That is part of what's happening here. But nobody, it's not noticed as that because all the teens are just happy that someone's saying it's not bad for you to make out with your boyfriend or girl. girlfriend, right?

Yeah. Like you can get how that camouflage is it, right? It's excellent camo. I mean, it's really good camo. He's kind of a genius, yeah. Evil genius. Unfortunately, he is very good at this. In 1958, he's hired by Radio Luxembourg, an independent station on the continent that was

popular with the youths. This gives him access to pop musicians, to the biggest stars of the day. He's talking with the Beatles. He's talking with the Rolling Stones. He's talking with fucking Elvis, right? I mean, it varying points in time. That's not all starting in 1958, but if someone is a pop musician who is famous and beloved, he knows them. And you've heard him talk to them on air.

So you know he knows them. And this gives him a huge amount of power over the teenage girls in his audience. Now, to the adults who are running the business and who own these venues, this helps to reinforce Jimmy's status as a teen whisperer. Right? Although this is largely based on a misconception they have about his fame because they see like, oh, wow, the teenagers love Jimmy. What's really happening is the teenagers know Jimmy has access to the musicians they love. And so they follow him because he provides access to these pop stars, right? And he increasingly grows skilled when he's talking with these teenage girls who are lining up outside of his office after the show at making himself into a gateway between these kids who are obsessed. obsessed with their favorite musicians and those musicians.

That is what provides him with the bulk of his victims. Got it. He is the door. If you make Jimmy happy, Jimmy can introduce you to the fucking Beatles, right? What won't you do for that guy if you're a 16-year-old girl in this period of time, right? It's like Weinstein can get you a part in a movie. Yep. Yep.

It's how it works pretty much always, right? Yep. Disgusting. One former employee at the plaza, which is, one of the dance halls he managed, recalled seeing a line of girls outside of Jimmy's office, queuing up regularly for what was euphemistically called a chat with Jim. He used to always say, I'm going to interview this young lady for a job. That's all he'd say. I don't know what went on behind those doors, but I do know that he was a man. We know what was going on behind those doors,

right? And again, while a lot of these girls are legally of age, a lot of them aren't. And we know a lot of them aren't because people talk about him hitting on them when they were 14 or 15 or even younger, right? And I don't have an exact list of, and here's the age and number of the girls that he molested and the girls who, you know, were of age and maybe consent. I don't know how that breaks out as a ratio, but none of this is okay because none of this, all of this is, even in the case when they're legally of age, he is making them have sex with him to get access to famous musicians. And that's bad. Like, it may not have been a crime at the time, but it's bad.

Now, Jimmy's making good money now. And despite the fact, this is something that will be with him most of his life, despite the fact that he now makes good money, he's always driving around like fancy sports cars, Rolls Royces and stuff. He lives in squalor. His apartments are always disgusting and like the cheapest place he can possibly get. His house in this period of time is this gross mold covered flat nickname the Black pad because he painted the walls and everything else black to disguise the grime so that like it wasn't

as obvious how gross it was. Um, rent was a pound 50 per week. He's just cheap. Okay. And he doesn't, I don't think he spends a lot of time in his apartment too. So he doesn't see the reason to spend much money on it at this point. He spends a lot of money on his cars. And usually if he's not having sex in his office, he's having sex in his car.

Now, he does bring people back to his pad to party too. And he's lit the space with red light bulbs to further hide how disgusting it is. But it's gross. Did you get a better place with like a ball pit or something? We probably don't need to be giving him notes. I'm sorry. But it is like weird. It's kind of a noteworthy thing about how he does this.

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I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much

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There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and I'm mostly human. I go beyond the headlines with the people building our future. This week, an interview with one of the most influential figures in Silicon Valley, OpenAI CEO, Sam Alman. I think society is going to decide that creators of AI products bear a tremendous amount of responsibility to products we put out in the world. From power to parenting.

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My highest order bit is to not destroy the world with AI. Listen to mostly human on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And we're back. So, in public, Jimmy always wore expensive, ostentatious clothes and drove luxury cars, particularly Rolls Royces. And these also helped to draw teenage girls into his orbit. And by the time they got back to his disgusting pad, he'd usually done a good job of roping them in, promising I can get you backstage at this show. You can meet your heroes and get you to come in when, you know, we're going to have Elvis in or whatever, the studio. And you can meet him, you know, if you just do something for me, right?

Now, Jimmy is as good as his word, usually, when he makes these promises for a very good reason, right? This isn't, he's not fulfilling the promises he makes these girls who he then molests because he cares about being as good as his word. He is also providing pop stars with groupies who are, quote, ready to go. That's the term he uses, and that's part of his job. He is a fixer for these musicians who are traveling all over the world. They're coming past, you know, they're doing part of their tour in London. So they're going on the radio to talk to Jimmy. He's talking to them about, you know, the show they're doing.

And it's expected, hey, you know, you guys are going to be in town for just like two nights. Jimmy can hook you up with some girls who are ready to go, you know? Like, that's what he's doing. We don't know specifically who he did that for, but he does it a lot. And it's part of the appeal. It's part of why you go to Saville's parties is if you're famous, he'll get you, he'll kill up with some groupies, right? It's very normal at the time. It's very bad.

It's very bad. And yeah, you asked me at the beginning of the first episode, how I knew him. And it's those stories. It's like the story of the girl who gets like a fish put inside her or like whatever that are like likely underage girls with these famous musicians. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, even when it's, they're not. legally underage at the time, it's still bad.

Jimmy Donnelly, who attended the plaza starting at age 16, right around this time, was interviewed about Davies for his book. And his recollections of Saville helped get across something important. Quote, we didn't have this word pedophile in them days. We had the word weirdo, and Saville was a weirdo. He always had the Bobby Sox girls, the young girls in his cars. He'd always pull up with the girls in his car. Going home, he'd always have the girls in his car.

his car, right? So again, as normalized as aspects of this were, it's weird. Jimmy is a weirdo for the time. And people are using the term weirdo to refer to the fact that he's a pedophile, right? That's known. It's not a secret. It's just not seen as big a problem as it's later going to be seen. But it's not a mystery. Nobody doesn't think he's doing this. The word's important, though, because weirdo can mean a lot of things. It can be, and that's what Jimmy understands is that his very oddness, the fact that he is so strange and so purposefully strange is a cloaking device. It helps to hide the fact that he's a predator. Jimmy dressed, and it's not just that, it's that Jimmy dresses in a way because he's dressed

so weird and ostentatiously, he regularly gets called a poofter or various other slurs for a homosexual person, right? And he's fine with this. Because if people think he's queer or just off in general, then the fact that he's always surrounded by teenage girls is just another mark of his eccentricity, right? Yeah. And in fact, part of his strategy is he deliberately doesn't have sex with

or grope most of the young girls that he's hanging out with. The majority of the girls that he's surrounded by at any given time, he is not molesting because that provides further cover, right? Most of the girls who are out there will say nothing happened, you know?

Uh-huh. And that makes him seem safe. and it makes it seem less worth paying attention to. Dan Davies relates the story of Penny Ann Rolls, who met Saville when she was a teenage girl working at a coffee shop that was also a concert venue, which Jimmy part owned. She recalled, quote,

One Sunday night he used to take a few of us to a restaurant, an Indian place in the Curry Center of Manchester. We used to go there for Curry, and he would park his Rolls-Royce up. Afterwards, he would take us home with the roof down on his car, and we'd all be singing our heads off. She remembers there were three or four girls that Saville took out regularly, but insists he never tried it on with her.

I never saw him in a relationship with anyone, she maintains. Between you and I, I don't know whether he was gay. And tactics like this were very much in line with Jimmy's repeatedly elucidated approach to life. He talked about this as a strategy. I'm going to quote from one specific interview he does near the end of his life, but he repeats this sentiment in numerous places over half a century. You see, I never ever thought that I was clever. Tricky, yes, I'm a very tricky fella, but tricky is much better than being clever.

If you are clever, you can slip up because you're clever. But if you're tricky, you don't slip up. You never slip up if you're tricky. Fuck off. Fuck off, Jimmy. Unfortunately, it works. Yeah. But he talks, like, he's talking, this guy is being like, I'm tricky.

I'm always around teenagers. No one ever has noticed what's wrong with me. What a mystery. This guy was molesting people for decades. We couldn't have known. What a slippery little. fuck what a little grimy little worm because like people expect less of the trickiness versus the cleverness I don't know right yes exactly now in books and interviews reporters would always note that

Jimmy never talked about his inner life right you can go through all of the he wrote books about himself multiple ones and you don't get anything about what he actually does on his own or who he is as a person. And in fact, Jimmy claimed not to have an inner life. He would talk about this regularly. I believe it. Yeah. Yeah, I kind of do too. He keeps incredibly busy, not just with work, but with sporting events. He continues to be an athlete of varying kinds, this whole period. And while he's rising to fame, during this time when he's, you know, emceeing events and running all these dance halls and stuff and this popular DJ and on the radio, he's also a prominent wrestler. And in fact, he tried to use his, he gets into wrestling and he tries to use his fame, the fact that

he's kind of famous as a broadcaster, to jumpstart his wrestling career. And the fact that he is so well known does make him popular to promoters, like promoters love having Jimmy Savalon because people will show up to watch him wrestle. But other wrestlers hate it because he's not really a wrestler, right? And he's kind of like, he's kind of like stealing his way to the top. He's like Logan fucking Paul and WWE. He's Logan Pauling it. Right.

Yeah. Real WWE fans. Hate that guy. Yeah. The website Pro Wrestling Stories notes, his toe was broken in his very first match. After one bout, he visited the hospital after his testicles had been kicked up into his body. Nice. Thank God.

Yeah. Love that for him. That's fun. Yeah. There's a couple good bits here of him getting hurt. Saville claims to have fought in over a hundred bouts and proudly lost all 35 of his first matches. Despite this, and despite this, and despite his. appearance, he was very popular with female fans. One wrestler who did not like Saville and beat him

brutally in the ring recalled years later that Saville bragged about girls lining up to see him after fights. He would tell them, I'll take you and you and you. The rest of you, come back another time. You might get lucky. Ew, bro. Yeah. Now, for reference, here's how Jimmy looked back then as a wrestler. And just, what an upsetting-looking man. I don't know how, like, he looks like one of the, And this, at least, his hair isn't shock white. It's a bit shorter and black. He's, like, shirtless. Like, he's in good shape, you can tell.

But again, he just continues. His face is so upsetting, always to me. Yeah, he's got, like, real potato-shaped face and then just, like, crazy. The hair does not do any eyes. Lord Barquod ass hair. The bangs, again, not sure. I mean, I'm not, I don't want to harp on his. appearance but also fuck him.

Yeah, he's, I mean, but also his appearance is a big part. He's conscious. Right, right, right, right. His appearance is a performance, right? So there is, you know, it's not totally. Question on the wrestling. Yes. Did you say at the beginning that he also messed with boys?

Is there any evidence? Yes. We're getting there? I don't know when that starts. I don't know that anyone does. But yes, he molests a shitload of boys, very young ones, as we'll be talking about. I don't know when he begins. doing that. We really don't. We will be talking about it later. I have kind of the earliest point

that we know he was by, but I don't know how far back that goes. Okay. I should also note the kind of wrestling, Saville did, was a mix of like the pure entertainment pro wrestling that we Americans know and love today, an actual competitive grappling. So these are real fights, right? Like where there's like a winner and a loser that's not decided ahead of time. And I will talk about one of those fights much later at the end of these episodes, you're going to need it as a pallet cleanser. But that's getting, we'll do that later because, again, it's going to be necessary. However, it's important you know that the fact that he's bad at wrestling doesn't mean that his time as a wrestler was a failure for Saville.

In fact, it's one more thing that makes him seem terrifying and impossible to resist to his victims. The fact that he's a pro wrestler helps ensure that when he's molesting someone, they don't fight back because he's scary. He's in really good shape and he's huge. He is a big man. He's physically dangerous. This is not a, this is a guy who is in fights. This is a guy who knows how to hurt people and he knows how to use his body to hurt people. He even told one wrestling magazine, If I arrive at the gates of heaven and St. Peter says, you've been a very tricky man. You can't come in here. I'll break his thumbs because I'm qualified to do that because I've earned a living

being a wrestler and I've not had a problem yet with anyone whose thumbs I've broken. Oh, my God. No one could have known. Impossible to know this guy was praying on kids. There were no signs. There were no signs. To even think of that scenario in your head. Also, the fact that, again, he's periodically at his life being like, I'm not clever, I'm tricky, and no one can catch you if you're tricky.

And then in this, he's like, St. Peter wouldn't let me into heaven, because I'm tricky. Really let you know what he means when he says he's tricky. Exactly. In 1964, the BBC asked. Jimmy Saville to be the first host of a new television program. Well, I think it's a radio program that becomes TV later. But I, well, no, I think it is TV at this point in time. It's a little, because a lot of media, it's kind of hard to find from 1964.

So I think this is a TV program at the time. It's called Top of the Pops. And it's a video showcase of the hit bands of the era that becomes this massive hit. And Jimmy's not the only host. They rotate DJs. So like every episode, you'll have somebody different, right? but Jimmy is like the first one to host the show and he's like one of the most regular people that they bring back to host Top of the Pops during this period of time.

And throughout the 60s and I think into the 70s, he's repeatedly voted Britain's favorite DJ. Like he's the top DJ in the country by pretty much any person's like standards. And so he also gets the job regularly when these huge bands that are honestly probably bigger in a lot of ways than any popular musician is today. When you talk about the Beatles or the stones at their height, he's the guy on stage introducing them whenever they play in England, right? And he continues to, he'll dress in bizarre costumes. I saw one video where he's like opening for the stones and he's dressed as like a stereotype

of a Japanese woman wearing like a, like a kimono and like waving a fans to cool himself down as he approaches the microphone. He's got his catchphrases like, now they. Then, now then, and now, how about that then? Because catchphrases were easier to have back then. More than anything, Jimmy had access. This is a guy who talks to the Beatles repeatedly. He's in like a top of the pops.

They do like a TV skit with the Beatles, where Jimmy, because he's so huge and tall, is like he's like the abominable snowman. And they're all out like hiking and he's like one by one like eating the Beatles, basically. And I don't think they're actually friends. I don't think they know, like they're certainly not hanging out socially the rest of their lives, but he knows them. And if you're a teenage girl, all you see is that like, wow, he knows the fucking Beatles, you know? On stage, when Jimmy wasn't surrounded by pop stars, he was often quite literally buried in girls,

which further helped to normalize and disguise his behavior. Here's one example from an episode of Top of the Pops in the 1970s that Sophie's going to play for you here. A fella could get used to all this. I think I'm too really good to get used to it. So ladies and gentlemen, all we can say is good night from all of us here on top of the pops. And it's number one time. And of course, if you believe me now, it's from the one and only. She, car, go.

And thank you. Very much indeed. So, for those of you who couldn't see that, Jimmy is surrounded by like a dozen young, very young women. I can't tell their age. And one of the girls, the girl next to him, keeps like jumping and making like, ooh, sounds. I think because he's grabbing her. the whole time. Oh, no. This is the most popular show in the country, one of them at the time. He's just on stage with a bunch of teenage girls groping one of them on video. This is so normalized.

This is not hidden. This is not, like, I have to really emphasize there was no reason not to know what Jimmy was doing here. While I was looking for that clip, I accidentally came across another clip from a 1965 episode of Top of the Pops. And Jimmy's only on for the first second, but once I heard the words to the song he's introducing, I had to include this too, just because it's just a very, I don't know, funny bit of irony. Sophie's going to play that clip to you now from the 65 episode. The song is called Little Children. Little Children, you better not tell on me. Little children, you dare not tell on me.

Why was that a song? I know. Just to kind of talk, make the point about how, like, some of this is that things were fucked up at the time. Why is that a song? Yeah, just Jimmy said the pedophile introducing a song about telling kids not to tell on adults. Great. So by this point, by the time and again, we're in kind of like the mid-season. in this era, Jimmy's moved on from the Mecca.

He's running things at a new 3,300-person dance hall called the Top 10 Club, which promised live music by famous pop stars and top international DJ Jimmy Saville. On ads for the club, Jimmy was pictured with a chimpanzee for some reason, and the text, It's a gas, it's a ball. It's like crazy, man! The club only allowed people 16 and up, which was again the age of consent, but numerous people who attended in those days have made it clear that lying about your age was so easy as to be essentially encouraged. No one's checking or cares if you're not actually 16, right? And in fact,

there's some evidence that, you know, the bouncers, the people like at the gate are specifically trying to bring in younger girls for reasons I probably don't need to elaborate on here. Now, the top 10 club becomes Jimmy's primary, like, hunting area. And he, in order to maintain sort of this like his kind of specialist he forbade none of the other DJs were allowed to play top 20 hits right because Jimmy knows his popularity is based entirely on his perceived closeness to fame and this further helps to make him special and make it seem like he's got access Jimmy Donnelly who we heard from earlier recalled that Saville always left with girls from their mid to late teens and that it was well known Jimmy Saville liked him young now the top ten club is going to become probably his most reliable

ground in this period of life. That's the term Davies uses for it through the mid to late 60s. And both he and the BBC are recruiting girls from the top 10 club, right? Saville is recruiting them because he wants to molest them. And the BBC is recruiting them for the studio audience of their hit new TV show, Top of the Pops, because they have just teenagers come into dance, right? Like these girls are bringing brought into like dance on stage, be in the background. It's like in that clip I've shown you, you just have them as set dressings.

Right? And so you've got like Cecil Corr, who is the assistant producer for the show and a 29-year-old man. He'll go talent spotting out at club nights at the top 10 club and he'll hand out tickets to girl. And he said later, I was looking for girls aged 13 to 17, right? That's who he's handing out tickets to be on TV to. Said one top of the pop's director, if they were dancers or were attractive, obviously they got on. So again, both the BBC. and Saville are preying on underage girls. The BBC, because they record, the, the BBC recognizes that they have sex appeal, quote unquote, to the audience, to the musicians, to the DJs, and they want there to be girls younger than 16 years. The BBC makes that decision, too. This is not just Jimmy deciding to molest kids, but BBC wants to put kids in a position where they will be molested. That is a choice made by the people running the BBC, and it is a choice they keep making. for decades. That is a very important part of the story.

And surely they're not getting paid. No, no, no. They're getting paid in the ticket to get molested. They're getting paid in the ticket, you know, and maybe you'll get, you know, with your favorite pop star or whatever, right? That's the, I think, what draws a lot of these kids in, right? Because obviously they're kids. Jimmy maintained his reputation as Britain's oldest teenager by speaking like kids,

knowing their lingo and their music. But his larger appeal was the simple fact that he represented access to pop stars they idolized. Saval was constantly on the air, on TV, or in concerts, introducing the Beatles, Manfred Man, and of course, the Rolling Stones. And while the kids perceived him as having a close relationship to all these guys, the reality was often uglier. Let's take the Stones as an example. Saval was an early advocate of the band, even when the record company Deca wasn't sure they had what it took to outshine the Beatles. Saval had seen the way audiences went nuts for the group. He described it as rioting, and he supported them. In his, he gets a newspaper call.

So he's writing newspaper articles about the pop industry at this time, and in his discussions with industry insiders. This does not mean that he was friendly with or liked by the band members. In 1964, after their first number one record, the Stones were booked to play at the top 10 club. The crowd that night was, for lack of a better word, insane. Fights broke out constantly, and the police even had to show up. And the Stones, to an extent, part of, like, what they're doing in this time is playing

up how crazy their concerts get. this is what's going to kind of culminate in the, like, there's a, like, somebody gets killed at one of their concerts by a hell's angels, like, back in the U.S., not crazy long after this period of time, because that's part of, like, what makes the Stones famous, is how nuts their shows go, how crazy their fans go for them. But things get so bad this night that the Stones refused to play when their time came up, in part because, like, they've lost their, their instruments, like, the instruments they were supposed to have didn't show up, and they didn't want to play with, like, the stones, like, the, like, they're, like, the instruments they were supposed to have didn't show up, and they didn't want to play with, like, like, the, the venues, like, backup set of instruments. They didn't think they were good enough. And that's just going to make the fans even crazier, which makes them less want to go on stage. So Jimmy, who's out DJing to try and calm the crowd down, gets called up by an aide.

And he goes backstage to see what's wrong. And he's told that, like, you know, the band isn't going to play. These instruments aren't good enough. Like, they're just going to leave. And I'm going to quote now from the book, In Plain Sight. Saville's response was characteristically blunt. He pointed to where three of his largest minders were standing, and growled, you've got the time it takes this stage to revolve to make your mind up.

If you're not going to play, you're going to be unconscious because my minders are going to chin all of you. I'll accept drummer Charlie Watts, that is. Saville claimed that Watts looked him up and down before speaking. You would, wouldn't you? he said. No danger, replied Saville, and I'll throw you to the fucking audience. I guarantee you that. And the Rolling Stones agreed. They take their preferred instruments and they go play their show, right?

This is, he does this with other people. This is just one example of like the way he is. He is very comfortable threatening violence, even on these big pop stars, right? That's, and to be fair. That's, that's wild. Yeah, it's crazy. That's unhinged behavior. That level of aggression, like, I'm sorry, to make, Tomik Jagger?

Mm-hmm, to Mick Jagger, yeah. And again, also, Mick Jagger, like, they're young. Yeah. They're kids at this point, too. They're not that much older than their teenage fans, whereas Jimmy Saville is now pushing like 30 something. Like he's a mature adult. Yeah.

Like, you can't think of the Stones as like these massive figures that they are today. Sure, sure, sure, sure. At this point, they're a lot less sure of themselves. That's great context. Thanks. Yeah, yeah. So the Stones agree, they play the show. And Saville later told an interviewer that had they refused, I would have had the

bastards chinned and slugged to the crowd. If they lived or died, it wouldn't have mattered to me. He's very open about all this stuff. What a maniac. What a fucking maniac. By this point, in the late 60s, he's a well-known MC and public figure. Saville got hired to host shows all over the country. In 1967, the town of Otley hosted their annual Civic Ball

and named it the Pop Civic Ball to attract youngsters. Of course, Jimmy Saville was asked to attend as chief guest, and he responded with a list of condescending. for his appearance. The first was that his normal 200-pound fee had to go to a local charity, right? So that's what you start. Your first demand is, don't pay me. Send the money to a local charity, right?

Because that deflects suspicion, particularly it deflect suspicion before his second and third condition. I wish to sleep the night on the shevin, which is like a park or something nearby, in a tent, which you will organize, plus sleeping bag and a large torch. And this is the answer that the venue gives. I will personally organize a tent plus sleeping bags and a large torch for you to sleep overnight, and moreover will hold you to it. And his third demand is, a guard of honor of six young ladies in another tent, of course, to keep me safe. And the venue answers, I'll organize a guard of honor of six young ladies, but I won't be held to their compliance or your safety.

Get it? The town, whatever representative of the town is like, I'll make sure there's those six young ladies for you, but I won't make sure you don't molest them. That's called sex trafficking. This is in writing. That's, yeah. That's horrific. That's deeply horrible. That's repugnant.

Oh, it gets so much worse. This happens all the time. I've been angry this entire episode, but that in writing is absolutely just, I'm disgusted. Yeah. And this is public at the time. He talks about it to the media that he made the town provide him with six teenage girls, and they did. Everyone knows this. It's not hidden.

His fourth condition is that he'd be given a tour of the local hospital because he likes volunteering at hospitals. We'll talk about that a lot more, but he loves going on and doing his good charitable work at these hospitals, right? And so you see, you sandwich, I want teenage girls and privacy so that I can molest them. In between money to charity, volunteer at a local hospital. right you see what he's doing here you know um now all of these become standard demands for him in the years to come whenever he's asked to do something like this he is constantly hosting events and he will always say okay i need you to provide me with this number of girls as an honor guard or whatever you know sometimes to camp with sometimes to hang out with sometimes to like wake him up

in the morning right and it'll always open with a charitable donation and then in the middle is the girls and at the end is some other like good cause volunteering at a hospital or something. All of these demands, particularly for the Honor Guard, were publicized at the time. Local press wrote about this. Jimmy wrote about this in his autobiography, in his autobiography, which is published after he has awarded the OBE or Order of the British Empire, which is a step below knighthood, in his autobiography, he describes the teenage girls that this town provided him with as looking good enough to eat. Now, I don't know precisely. Yeah.

What year are we in Robert here? 67, 67. And how old would he be roughly? He's like, he's got to be, he's like 29, pushing 30. And has the face of that is his face? And looks like Jimmy Saville. Yeah. I don't know precisely how old the girls were, but they all seem to have been under 18.

In the book in plain sight, Davies writes. And he's talking about a woman who. told it who was one of these girls and talked to him years later about it, right? The woman recalled that it was bitterly cold when the girls got into their sleeping bags and the separate tent that had been set up for them in that clearing. It was at this point in the early hours of the morning that Jimmy Saville, who had been plying them with vodka all night, but not drinking himself, came in and tried it on with each of the girls. Although the woman refused to elaborate on what had happened on the grounds that she didn't think it fair on the others in

the tent that night, she did describe Jimmy Saville as a disgusting old man and a pervert. Her version of events was that they were saved when youths from the rugby club shot out the paraffin lamps with air rifles. They had followed us up there, she said. She described the girls huddling in the tent while a fight broke out between Saville and the youths. Saville was violent, really nasty once

he turned, she added. Thank God salute to those teenagers. Just shooting a tent with an air rifle. Thank God for you. The Honor Guard term is like so ironic and disgusting. Yeah. And also... It's one of the grossest things

I was going to ask you. You said the vodka thing, but like, is he, is this a common thing that he's like playing them? He does not seem to have been very much of a drinker or much of a, I'm sure he did some, but he doesn't seem to have much of a drinker or much into drugs, but he plies girls with them. He does a lot of that in this period of time and later. So we'll talk more about that, but this is as good a time as any to go to ads, I guess. Canadian women are looking for more. More out of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are out of them.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back. So the same year that Jimmy Saville helped host the Otley Pop Civic Ball, a magazine called People, I don't think this is the People magazine we have today. I think it was a different magazine called People, launched an investigation into Saville's predilection for young girls based on numerous complaints by underage girls that he had raped or otherwise abused them. This is happening as early as 1967. The investigation was never published, though, because the editor of the magazine, Sam Campbell, had hired Jim. Jimmy Saville as a columnist because he's going to draw on young readers. And so basically, he's like, we're not going to publish an investigation over whether or not

this guy's molesting girls. He's one of our most popular columnists, you know? In January of 1972, after receiving the OBE, people, this magazine, published a four-part series with Jimmy titled, Me and My 3,000 Birds, at last, Jimmy Saville's own story. Give you a guess as to what that's about. Disgusting. Oh, my God. Yep.

Now, when you're in three thousands of very realistic, I don't know, maybe not at this point in time, but his victim's number in the thousands. And when you're abusing women. Also, like a pedophile of distinction with his OBE. With his OBE. Yes, yes. Pedophile OBE. Now, when you're abusing women and girls at the rate Jimmy was during this period, you're going to need a close circle of cop friends if you want to avoid trouble. And from the start of his period of major fame in the late 60s through the early 70s up to the end of his life, the adult men that Jimmy Saville's primarily socialized with appear to have been police officers.

Yeah. When he's hanging out with other adult men, they are often, if not mainly cops. Those are his best friends is the cops. Yeah, they would be. All the cops. Yeah, they would be. Bastards. During the height of his dance hall days, Manchester police officer, Lewis the Lionheart.

Harper was, per Davies, Jimmy Sable's eyes and ears. He's watching to hear if there are any complaints he needs to take care of. Harper was the chief superintendent of the city center and a prominent member of the vice squad. As a note, when Harper died, he left more in his will than he had earned in total during his time on the police force. Not cricket at all. Not getting bribed by Jimmy?

He gave him that nickname fucking like Tywin Lannister ass shit. What the fuck? One of my sources for these episodes was an article in the UK Tribune by Farrell Kinney. He notes that in Saville's out of print, 1974 autobiography, as it happens, Jimmy referenced a female Manchester police officer who attempted to bring charges against him for harboring a teenage runaway. That means a girl ran away from home and Jimmy was keeping her in one of his houses, right? Yeah. However, this officer was, in Saville's words, dissuaded from going through. with this by her colleagues.

Quote, because it was well known that were I to go, I would probably take half the station with me. Now, does that mean that if Saville were charged, half the station would quit because they were his friends? Or does that mean that if Saville were charged, he would tell stories about half the station because he was providing half the Manchester police force with teenage girls to molest? What do you think is more likely? That's so shady.

I know what I think is more likely. The finest, Manchester's finest. Yeah, good guys. Now, we know that during this period where Jimmy was managing his dance halls doing top of the pops and starting with the TV show he's going to start, we'll talk about in part three, Jim will fix it. He impregnated at least two teenage girls. I am only going to give you one of these accounts, and I'm sure there were more. I'm going to only give one of these accounts in the interest of just not breaking everybody's spirit.

but you should know this is happening more than the one time we're talking about. My spirit's pretty broken before you even got to this part. This is just like, Jesus Christ. Now, this particular allegation that I'm going to relate came out in October of 2012, which is after Saville's death. But the alleged crime occurred in 1964 when the woman in question was 16 years old and a virgin. She had started an Elvis Presley fan club, and Saville invited her on his Radio Luxembourg show to talk

about the fan club she had, and he tells her afterwards, well, I'm flying to America soon, and I'm going to visit Elvis. I'll be hanging out with him. So why don't you send me a picture of you that I can give to the king? Right? So she does this. And I'm going to quote from in plain sight as to what happened next. According to the woman who did not want to reveal her identity, on returning from the States, Saville phoned her house and told her he had a present for her from Elvis. She was understandably thrilled and recalled walking to the London hotel where Savile was staying. She said he met her in his pajamas. He then took her into his room, pinned her to the wall, and started kissing her. The man said she pleaded for him to stop. He whispered, you're an angel,

before pushing her onto the bed and raping her. Afterwards, when he's done, he tosses her some badges from the new Elvis Presley movie, Kiss and Cousins, and Leads. That's the present from Elvis. So she goes home after this. She misses her next two periods and she realizes that she's pregnant. She attempts to induce a miscarriage. Eventually, her father takes her to receive an illegal abortion, which she endures without painkillers. This was physically damaging enough that she endures multiple miscarriages as a young woman in her 20s. Again, not the only story like this. And again, to a point of even when someone's technically legally of the age, he is still often raping the people who are legally of age.

It's just that who's going to charge him with rape? The cops he's friends with? Yeah. Wow, Robert. Yeah. I wasn't quite ready for that. Yeah. That's what we're only going to relate one of the, that, the stories of girls that he rapes and impregnates, but there's more than one.

There's more than one. I don't know how many there were. Could have been hundreds, to be honest. Yeah. Could have been hundreds. It's hard to hear, but it happened and like we can't ignore. Yeah. That these types of things had to happen to so many people.

but wow. Yeah, behind the euphemism of Honor Guard or whatever, there's a lot of that shit happening. There's a lot of real bleak stuff behind these euphemistic terms. Yeah, just to say, I'm so fucking glad that guy's dead. I really enjoyed. He's for sure dead. Yeah, but he should have had to pay for it a little bit. He didn't ever pay for it.

Yeah, no, I'm sorry. There's many such cases where this has happened, which is why it's important that we talk about horrific things that have happened in history. in today so that like people know what to look for but this is like there there were so many people aware that I think that's why that's only going to be more of it as this goes on yeah I think that's part of what's really hard to stomach for me because so many people are aware and like honestly hearing that you know not that you know any cop isn't a bastard but hearing that a a woman knew about this and a woman off and tried to do something tried to do something but But honestly, girl didn't try that hard.

And, like, that's heartbreaking. Well, the system. I mean, who know, she may have been threatened with murder. Like, a bunch of her fellow cops may have said, well, fucking, like, I don't know what she actually. That's completely fair. You know, I'm just. Like, not to, not to hold water for a cop. And I literally don't know.

And I can imagine it being pretty brutal for her. It's just like all these people are responsible for his crimes. Like, you knew. You fucking knew what he was. and like he was one of the most vile people to ever live oh yeah well in one of the at this point in the story you do you can still say the thing that like this is all happening within this subculture pop music and the people who are like presenting it to the nation where this kind of behavior is extremely common and normalized that's true up to this point in the story it is not going to be true

for most of jimmy savel's life as a sex offender every i when I tell you at this point the people implicated in his behavior are some cops and other DJs and like BBC people working at the time. By the end of this story, the entire royal family, including Princess Die, are implicated in degrees of his crimes. No. In addition to the, in addition to Margaret Thatcher, the whole ruling class of England is implicated in what Jimmy Saville did. So that's cool. We'll talk about that in part three and four next week. God, I love Princess Dye. That ruined it from me.

Yeah, I mean, maybe she didn't know anything. I don't know. Prince Charles sure did. King Charles, sure did. Absolutely. Well, that's surprising. We'll talk about all that in the subsequent episodes. I don't know.

I know that Dye was a good friend of Saffles for a chunk of her life. I don't know what she knew. But we know what Charles knew. And Prince Andrew. It's so funny. Is when I saw your Epstein. episodes. I was like jealous of the guest and I manifested too hard because look what episode I wound up. Yeah. Yeah. Because he's very much in some ways is kind of like the English equivalent, right?

Yeah. And some very different ways. And we'll talk about all that in part three and four. But yeah, you want to plug your book before we roll out here? Jesus Christ. You guys, Girl Gone Wild. Girls Gone Wild is similar to this, but different. But girls. Gone Wild is a feminist manifesto. So if you need something to just wash out that gross taste in your mouth after that brutal rape scene we just heard, order yourself a copy. That's the best plug I have. Cool. Well, sorry for these episodes being so bleak, folks. It's not going to get better. But hey, we'll get to, you know, we will get to talk about Jimmy Saville experience. some degree of comeuppance, not unfortunately if the legal variety, but I am saving a good story for the end of this just as a palate cleanser. So I'll promise you all that.

Can't wait. Well, shit. Thanks. Until next week, everybody, you know. Touch grass. Pet a dog if they want you to pet it. If you know a BBC executive, sock them right in the teeth, you know. I mean, they're probably, at this point, all those guys are gone, but probably still deserve it. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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