Behind the Bastards - Part Two: The Boy Scouts are a Bastard

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

Robert is joined again by Matt Lieb to continue to discuss the Boy Scouts of America. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart. Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. you get your podcasts and we're all of that Chris every little bit of that goes into the episode I'm Robert Evans are you hi this is behind the bastards with Matt Leib yep hi I'm back how are you feeling learning all this fun stuff about the Boy Scouts of America oh I'm you know remember earlier when I was saying I always felt like I missed out and not being a Boy Scout yeah yeah yeah I'm feeling that that was that was God just looking out for me because there's

gonna get dark it is it's so fucked up like again not to like center my own experience like in this but it is weird to me that like again I know I've spent all of this time writing 20 pages on how fucked up the Boy Scouts are I personally have like nothing but positive memories of my time in the Scouts and it was it was weird like I didn't start to recognize because there was we're not talking about a lot of the other stuff that's fucked up about the Boy Scouts like everyone knows like they for decades would not let you be gay or trans or whatnot in the boys right out if you came out you couldn't be an

atheist you had you didn't have to be a specific religion but you had to you had to acknowledge the existence of a higher power there's like other stuff that they've been attacked for and I get part of the reason why I'm not really focusing on that is that like that's bad that is not something that would render an organization founded in 1910 fundamentally unsalvageable right a lot of organizations that old had weird attitudes to the bad attitudes towards gay people even racist attitudes and can change over time be like well yeah the people who founded us believe these things the fundamentals of our

organization are good teaching people how to camp where we've grown right that all I think that the Boy Scouts could have grown past you know the anti-LGBT thing and they have started accepting kids who are gay and trans I think they could have grown past the restriction to just boys because now they do accept girls they could have grown past a number of the problematic things what you cannot grow past is enabling the rape of tens of thousands of boys that that cannot be redeemed that seems that seems systemic yeah it's one of those things like yeah an organization founded in 1910 people who made it probably had

some weird beliefs on race and gender and like yeah you can you can the organization I think can move past that as long as it acknowledges the flaws of its past and it confronts them head-on which I'm not saying the Boy Scouts did like they they delayed way too long right reforming on that stuff but I think that it were it like the thing that makes them unsalvageable the reason I think the Boy Scouts just needs to be destroyed as an organization is is the mass rape of children like that's yeah you can't there's no no getting past that yeah it's yeah if not for the mass rape of children I feel like it would be you

know an organization that could make do some reform move past its past yeah but it's not that little thing where they was a mass rape of children the tens of thousands potentially hundreds of thousands of boys raped yeah yeah yeah and and that's also creating a cycle of abuse and predation due to the nature of you know early childhood sexual violence like that alone probably grounds they should destroy their organization I don't feel differently about the Catholic Church in fairness it is weird like I can say because then I grew up very conservative as I said it said a number of times if I had been like 16

in 2014 I might have wound up like alt right for a while I was really right wing right right one of like the first cracks in that armors when I was not sure if I was 17 or 18 I think it was my senior year of high school it was an academic decathlon which is like a nerd thing we had our own little like classroom and if you were on the team you could hang out in that classroom in between classes or during lunch which as a nerdy kid who just wanted to read his Warhammer books that was nice to do and so I'm in there one day with another kid on the team who was in the Boy Scouts we were in different troops but he was he

was and he was I think I actually quit the because I quit the Boy Scouts at like 16 15 or 16 he was still in the Boy Scouts and was like either 18 or almost 18 it was very close to getting his eagle and you know he and I were friends we were sitting in the classroom one day and kind of in the middle of just sort of like we're both reading separate books quietly alone in this room he just looks up at me and tells me that he's gay and this is the first person I ever met who like I knew was gay who would like that I like had talked to me about it right yeah and I said oh okay and and he

immediately after that because it just like I think he just had to tell somebody just burst out of him immediately after they said please don't tell anybody like I did the most important thing in the world to me is finishing my Eagle Scout is like getting my Eagle Scout like damn and they won't let me and that was that was like I'm for me a moment of less like that's really fucked up actually yeah that this kids this kid who clearly loves the Boy Scouts is dedicated to like what this organization stands for is terrified of being kicked out for just like something like it was just very

obvious in that moment like oh yeah that's clearly not a choice like the way he told me about it was just like this he had to let somebody know it was this thing that was I don't know that was a moment for me sure and like a just a I know that's when I first started to think really critically about the Boy Scouts as an organization because again I grew up in this right wing you know bubble I guess I think it's like that one way or another for a lot of people like you live in this kind of ideological bubble until you like meet someone who's you care about whose life experience contradicts the things that

you just never thought about before yeah absolutely oh I'm wrong about some really important shit yeah sometimes it just takes that you know having an actual one-on-one or just a human experience to get you outside of like kind of the the strict dogmatism of your like inherited ideology where you're just like you know of course I'm a libertarian my dad's a libertarian and he raised me to be libertarian you know and then and then you you know you live life and you meet people who you know in which the government was actually a necessary entity in their life and you're like oh shit like you you know

people who just grow up in a bubble I think as soon as they have that you know bubble bursts a little bit then they can kind of move past whatever you know dog yeah ideology they have yep yep it is that thing where like you the Republican politicians who have like a life experience that doesn't fit in with conservatism are like the ones who have these very public like John McCain arch republican and everything but torture because he was tortured right it's very consistently like no we can't this is not okay yeah Dick Cheney arch republican and everything but gay rights because his daughter's gay and

he's like yeah it's just yeah I mean that's just how people are I guess so the Boy Scouts of America began operating what they called an ineligible volunteer file system in 1919 so they didn't pal still alive when they this is like they they and this is not just even primate this is not primarily about sexual assault this is obviously you've got this growing organization a bunch of men join it and for one reason or another they do not meet the standards that the BSA does have for adult volunteers and they're not screening people but people who do the job and are bad at it and I think most of these people again are not

molesting kids they're like they get some kid killed on a hike or some shit right like they're they're irresponsible you know like there's a lot of ways to be bad at being a scout master you know you're taking kids into the woods a number of things can go awry yeah yeah usually pedophilia isn't the first problem when you're stranded alone in the woods with an adult yeah you would think up yeah and I think most of the men in the ineligible volunteer files had not purposefully harmed a child they had just like fucked up in some way probably some way that's like still deplorable but like not they're not

trying to harm anybody right a subset though of the ineligible volunteer list are men who had been caught or at least accused of molesting the children in their care this subset of the ineligible volunteer system were dubbed the P files or perversion files yeah that's that's the P word yeah yeah not pedophile pedarist I mean it's not rape yeah yeah yeah yeah so this starts in like the 20 problematic files I'm sorry the problem so when baiting pals alive they they do like attempt to and again they don't attempt to by screening people beforehand but they do attempt to be like oh we should if a guy gets kicked

out for raping a kid we should probably put his name in a file somewhere we should we should probably write this down huh which is the minimum you know minimum like the barest minimum I just want to remember his name you never list of the guys who who fucked the kids in our care I can also get their phone numbers just so we can talk and just see if they have photos yeah exactly yeah do you want to go to the lake no baby pal so in 1975 the list was computerized but there still existed a hard copy and there is still one today which reportedly fills 15 file cabinets

at the BSA headquarters in Irving Texas only a handful of men at the very top of the organization can access them in the BSA is the Boy Scouts of America so you're right I should know when we talk about this this is all focused on the BSA which is not technically the organization baiting pal founded because it's very decentralized there's like the different countries they're different like organizations right effectively right kind of corporations almost and they're all kind of like linked and related to each other and they do jam really people get together from different countries but I mean the BSA is

made in the image of what baiting pal talks about I'm sure there is a lot on like abuses in like England and great in the UK and in like other countries the vast majority of the documentation on abuse with the Boy Scouts is within the BSA so that's what we're focusing on here today so for decades the files were either entirely unknown or at most a rumor to those outside the organization they would occasionally make appearances though by the time Lord Baden Powell died in 1941 there had already been multiple cases of child molesters who had been caught and convicted for what they'd done as Boy Scout leaders

this pattern continued up to the present day and when those cases would end in criminal charges and trials files on the perpetrator would often be admitted into evidence usually under seal this most frequently happened in the latter half of the 20th and early 21st century when boys and groups of boys began to allege that what had happened to them the abuse they had suffered was not an isolated incident but was instead the result of a pattern of abuse within the organization the files contain often harrowing firsthand accounts from victims like this interview with a 10-year-old scout in 1972 the victim of

a sexual assault by Georgia troop leader Samuel Max de Bois Jr quote I was crying and I reached around and hit Max in the face and said I was going to quit the troop until my daddy then we heard the others coming back and Max said put your pants back on yeah that's like one of the less harrowing ones I'm not gonna I'm not gonna read in detail but we will discuss what happened like I'm gonna read detailed accounts of kids getting molested here thank you but you do need to know like what broadly occurred you know yeah cases that is important the P files at least were something so it's better than certainly doing nothing at

all but as a barrier to the assault of boys and care of the Boy Scouts of America they were incredibly porous to illustrate this let's start with an illustrative case of abuse among the Boy Scouts from a little more than a generation after Baden Powell's death Steven Field was a troop leader in Southern California the BSA started investigating him in 1971 after a scout in Santa Monica reported that he'd been sexually abused by Field a troop committee which included parents BSA officials and a psychiatrist so that's good right you're bringing like not just parents but a professional in that's a

positive way to look at things right this feels like the doctor thing for last episode I don't trust it not quite okay this this committee is convened and they look at the evidence and they conclude that the story was true this kid had been abused what Field had done with sexual abuse their investigation in fact found not only to abuse this kid but he had a pattern of what could credibly be called criminally sexual behavior including forcing his Boy Scouts to play strip poker and run around naked after losing games which is not ever like there's there's that's not even a like a gray area yeah strip

poker is not really inside the Boy Scouts milieu you know yeah and also like running around naked is not part of it that's never you know you can play well I mean it kind of was from the start actually but I'm just finding new and clever ways to get kids to run around naked yeah that is what it is when we talk about like naked swimming running around naked like I believe very strongly that like it nudities there's nothing wrong or inherently sexual about nudity right be like this thing where the idea that like people are doing things naked is like lascivious right clearly Baden Powell and a number of like the

men and like found it lascivious and so that's a problem like yeah it ended up being one of their favorite things yeah that's an issue that's gonna be an issue you know yeah so they find out this guy not only molests this kid but he has a history of very like criminal I I suspect it is illegal to make children play strip poker like I think that is a crime yeah not a law knower but that seems crimey yeah that seems not legal that seems like like a thing you would use that seems like a thing we don't allow like I have to think that's against some law it's gotta be in there somewhere yeah probably a lot of delinquency of a

minor or something I don't know whatever some something not right about that but the Boy Scouts don't report him to the police they don't report him to anyone in fact they remove him they kick him out of the Boy Scouts but the only report they make about this is from a regional Boy Scouts employee who fills out a form on field and sends it to headquarters and that form is placed in the P files so that's all that happens national officials told the regional official that this meant that fields would never be able to work in or volunteer for the Boy Scouts again and yet from a report in the Los Angeles times

quote he was involved with several Southern California troops over the next 17 years according to his file contacted recently by the times field explained that after he failed a lie detector test required by the Santa Monica troop committee he was encouraged to transfer to another troop in the city where he served a scout master for four years god they said it fails a lie detector and they're like you just got to go to another troop brah my god what the fuck just do what they do at the corner liquor store when someone has fucking put a picture of him up on the wall picture on the wall just say not

that guy right that's it's so easy dude oh my god your job is protecting children show at least as much care as a liquor store clerk over a bounced check what the fuck so the fucking field tells the Los Angeles times they said it had all been cleared up with the scouts like I don't how do you clear this out in Valencia he joined his brother-in-law's troop but left after a parent intercepted a love letter he had written to a scout the file shows at one point the file says field was caught watching pornography with naked scouts in his jacuzzi Jesus fuck yeah you know 20 years later he changed his name and his

identity and moved across the country and he just shows up one group is like yeah you failed the I promise not to molest kids part of the lie detector here go to this other group bring your jacuzzi with you yeah you're out of the Silmar chapter yeah of the scouts but you know what Glendale's recruiting oh my god super fucked up like again there are in its height like seven million boys in the Boy Scouts some of them were all way and then I'm not being callous here it is inevitable in any population of seven million boys some of them will get molested by adults right the fact that this is a thing that happens is not

inherently the fall of the Boy Scouts but as this example shows they are criminally irresponsible in taking any attempts to stop it that's the problem it's not that like there are some bad apples it's that they're kind of like the cops they just like they enable the bad apples no yeah it's like they literally have a basket of like with a with a foundation of poison and they're going on some of these apples are bad it's like you are po you've poisoned the fucking bastard yeah you poured cyanide into an apple basket yeah and then you pissed in it this is directly your fault yeah now among other things that story

is why I think jacuzzi ownership should require a license but you know beside that's another two-parter now despite the fact that this guy had repeatedly engaged I think we can agree it's pretty outrageous and public abuse of children yeah yes a national office didn't realize he'd snuck back into the organization until 1988 again almost 20 years and they only realized this because another local scouting official reported that Steve Field who was at that point chairman of a local troop committee had been arrested for masturbating in front of a child so he doesn't get kicked out by the Boy Scouts he gets arrested by the

cops and a local scout is like oh hey you guys should know this guy turns out he was a child molester this local official doesn't know this guy is a record but he sends this in to report this guy and the people who run the p-files are like oh Steve Field is the same as Steven Field how could we have known his ingenious criminal mind they're just like the cop comes in goes like all this you know this guy he's got arrested you know for masturbation and they're like oh you mean creepy Steve oh he's been doing that he's been doing that for a while yeah oh wacky Steve

don't leave him alone with your kids anyway he's in charge of the kids so for what it's worth once the sheriff's department actually got involved with Steve's case which should have fallen into their lap around 20 years earlier they launched a serious investigation and again all of the police aside one of the things they have a better record of taking seriously although not a perfect one because a lot of cops are child molesters generally detectives who find out the kids are being raped are like well this is probably important yeah like yeah it's just the thing even if you're a fucking

cop most people you hear a child is being abused and you're like well yeah we gotta do some about this yeah yeah most cops you know obviously a cab but not a you know all cops do not deliberately enable child molestation whatever that acronym spells they hear about this guy and generally this is the case like 20 years in like with these abusive adults and that's when finally shit happens this guy gets arrested and it's because like the the bsa can't hide it anymore right um child pornography was found in fields as home photos he'd taken of nude boys nude Boy Scouts as far back as 15 years ago are found and

when the cops realized this guy has been preying on Boy Scouts for more than a decade they asked the National Office do you have a file on this guy and the bsa sends the p-file for fields to the order for field to them but they send it along with a request and here's the a cab part because the cops abide by this request we hope you will use this information with discretion since we have tried to maintain our files they cannot be subpoenaed in any legal action wow if again if you're of cops are better people than they are if you're a decent person my first question would be this guy raped kids why don't you want

this subpoenaed like why why why why why any why are you not like throwing your doors open to right to this like why why not let this be he's raping kids like god I mean so the cops they abided yeah yeah just an arbitrary like oh if you could do us a favor and like they're probably all Boy Scouts oh fuck a lot of cops in half of Congress people were Boy Scouts I have congressmen or whatever like a huge percentage like all almost all of our recent presidents have been either Boy Scouts or Eagle Scouts like it actually does mean a lot to a lot of it so like sure story that could have gone badly for my childhood when I was a

kid I think like 13 or 14 I would go every Saturday I would go with my friends to a hobby store and we'd play Warhammer and then we had one point started wanting to play D&D which I'd started playing in the Scouts and like the people who we found to play with us were this guy was like 19 at the time he just graduated high school was in college and a dude who was almost 30 who's like a an engineer and that dude invites us all like well on Saturday night since the hobby shop closes like five just come over to my house and we'll all play D&D until like midnight and like my parents hear this and they're like okay

well that's a little quite he's like yeah almost 30 like this concerns us and this other guy's an adult too but both of them were Eagle Scouts so my parents were like okay yeah and it was like they were like there was fine like nothing like those people were huge positive influences on me like I don't want to like I'm trying they were both very positive parts of you but like that's why my parents trusted them as they were right there's an intrinsic trust in like oh these people are part of this organization that I have nothing but yeah my dad was an Eagle Scout you know right um yeah so anyway just culturally

this I think this is part of why the cops play ball with the BSA for so long and don't make more of an issue about this is that like a lot of them were probably boys get someone they were probably fucking troop leaders you know yeah yeah you know there were a bunch of like cop kids and stuff and boy scouts when I was in the scouts obviously but I mean it's it's kids getting fucked it's like that's why yes yeah but I think from the cops pursuit is like well we're getting this guy and we don't like to we don't want to tarnish because they're cops like they protect organizations from shitty they're like cops right are

often horrified at things other cops do they just cover it up because they believe in the institution I think so I think they're they're they're willing to do that for the Boy Scouts but they have so much room for it just it's like it's one of those things it's like I'm not defending it I'm just explaining the thought process I'm just thinking about it's like if I'm a cop and I'm like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna back up all these cops no matter fucking what and then someone throws out another organization like oh yeah this is like the rape organization like all right I have room in my moral compass for one more

organization to defend it is worth noting that at this point they're not thinking about this is the rape organization this is the 70s this is the Boy Scouts this we don't want to let another this is already terrible we don't want to also defame this beautiful organization and you know there's a lot of good at the same time yeah it is not until I think the first really big academic quality work on abuse sexual abuse within the Boy Scouts is that book we've been quoting from Scouts Honor which we'll have LinkedIn that the whole book is available online right now it was published in 1994 by a guy named

Patrick Boyle and it was I mean it was I don't think it did super well at the time obviously I think he got a lot of shit for publishing it but it is not a fun read of the heroes in the story one of them has to be Patrick Boyle for being in 1994 like people need to know that this is a systemic problem and you know it was not until three or four years ago that it became mainstream knowledge how systemic the problem was he's well yeah yeah cuz I started hearing about the stuff with the you know Boy Scouts right yeah yeah and the fact that this book came out in 93 is crazy to me yeah yeah and you know what

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podcasts what if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science the problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price to death sentences and a life without parole my youngest I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday I'm Molly Herman join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI how many people have to be wrongly convicted

before they realize that this stuff's all bogus it's all made up listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts we're back so fields or field gets arrested for abusing two 13 year old boys and sentenced to 12 years in prison when the LA Times found him because he's out of prison by the time these LA Times articles are very recent we'll talk about why and I'm reading from a bunch of different LA Times articles because they have done as far as I can find the best journalistic reporting on on abuse within the Boy Scouts so when they they find this guy

right because he's he's out of prison now he's working I think he's a fucking lawyer or something no might have been in finance I forget exactly but they find him he's like out in free and like working and they interviewed him and he admitted to abusing the kids he'd been convicted of abusing but the night allegations that he'd abused any other kids even though absolutely yeah of course other kids yeah yeah the Times informed him that he'd been on a black list since 1971 in the Boy Scouts and hit when they said like did you know the Boy Scouts had a file blacklisting you he's told them like no I had no idea

that's surprising because I was able to stay in the Boy Scouts for like 20 years yeah the child molester told them it's like a no-fly list if your name is on the no-fly list you shouldn't be able to get on a plane like the pedophile is baffled by how easy it was for him to get back into the Boy Scouts like yeah they really shouldn't have allowed this you're not wrong pedophile but like yeah you're not wrong yeah as the guy who raped those kids you have adequately accurately identified the issue or molested like I don't know like so yeah and it is that really like that goes to show how fucked up the BSA is

because when the pedophile your organization allowed to repeatedly harm children in your care throws shade on you for your irresponsibility and letting him in that's a that's a that's an epic fuck up like you have failed so comprehensively I don't have a word for it yeah that's a there's a signal there yeah yeah yeah yeah that times article goes on to tell the story of scout master Alan C. Dunlap of Fresno, California who was arrested in 1973 on suspicion of having abused several children Dunlap pled guilty to four counts of molestation and was committed to a psychiatric hospital the Scouts created yet another

p-file on him 13 years later in 1986 Dunlap was out of the hospital and registered as a scout volunteer in Brian Texas god damn it yeah you're gonna be saying that a lot my friend it does not appear that anyone even checked the blacklist before registering him which gets at the chief problem with the whole system the BSA actually did a pretty good job of documenting guys who had been caught or accused of sexual assault right they're very thorough in like when stuff gets in they they do put it all in this file but there's still no I can remember Baden Powell doesn't want there to be a big barrier to entry there's for

most of this period the 60s 70s 80s there's no real screening process right most again as we said like that one scout troop had like they chose to do like a polygraph test which polygraphs are problematic and obviously they just said I'm doing other troops like it did yeah there are there are though it's worth noting individual because it's a very decentralized organization some troops do have really good like you know policies in order to screen people right nationally there's nothing and this blacklist only a handful of people at the top have access to it and they don't run every name through it like

there's no right you when a guy joins a scout troop in fucking Texas they don't or in fucking like I don't know that main they don't send his name in to the national file to scan it they do nothing they only find out afterwards so it's useless it's fucking you other than like as documentation that a lot of guys are repeatedly molesting kids in the Boy Scouts it's just a fun way to get a nice list going but there's nothing you can possibly do nothing to protect children or very close the boys guys they will know there's actually this X number of men that we stopped because they were in the blacklist and someone recognized

it not to say it never happened but like clearly it was not an effective protecting system and they knew it at the time so yeah of course so after this guy gets you know this this dude is arrested and kicked out of the scouts in 73 after abusing some children 13 years later he becomes a scout volunteer in Brian Texas and he immediately gets back to sexually assaulting children he was eventually caught and pled guilty to abusing a nine-year-old cub scout he was sentenced to 12 years in prison a local official learned this and called the National BSA office to report Dunlap so he could be added to the P files and

the National Office realized they already had a file on the guy probably different guy here's what they do actually it's even worse than that they just add a note to his file four words convicted again dash child molestation addendum he done it again we might have a problem here please oh my god this is all pretty bad but it gets worse worse both of those actually the LA Times writes quote in some instances the Boy Scouts of America chose to give alleged molesters a second chance in a 1992 deposition Ernst then keeper of the national file testified that alleged abusers were given probation which

required periodic updates on the person's behavior only if evidence of molestation was quote extremely weak an individual's confidential file was generally destroyed after probation was completed but the file sometimes survived when the men went on to abuse again several of those cases suggest the initial evidence of abuse was strong again the BSA policy is err on the side of believing the child molester when he denies having molested the kid oh my god my fucking god yeah and I'm sure that you could find there's there have to be statistically millions of people a couple of cases of kids who lied because

they were angry at it I'm sure it happened statistically we have thousand like hundred minimum hundreds and hundreds and all and probably like by some accounts thousands of cases of people molesting kids repeatedly within the Boy Scouts like there but again they err on the side of protecting the adult not the children and their entire job should be to protect these children right I mean literally what their job is it's teaching them how to fend for themselves yeah fucking I mean I get my my scout master who was a I mean he was a great scout master he did something horrible for Raytheon that we don't know

entirely what like a bunch of the guys who taught me how to camp role Raytheon engineers it's like Plano like that's yeah but anyway he like his attitude was my only job is to stop kids from dying so like you go out there he'll teach you to he would teach us anything we wanted to learn he would help us learn but he didn't do anything for you so if you were miserable for days if you fucked up if your shit got soaked if you let your tent on fire like hey you can camp out under the stars or whatever like my only job is to stop you from dying right about self-reliance but he's still very he took safety like a physical health

very seriously and that's not what the Boy Scouts are protecting the adults about children like the organization nationally and again I had a lot of great scout leaders who while they may have been war criminals always put the safety of the kids in the boy scouts American kids I didn't know what Raytheon was at the time not the Iraqi kids yeah I mean good god only knows what they were actually like working on but yeah you can only care about so many kids Robert yeah you can look so for an example of how the Boy Scouts would protect and give second chances to child molesters let's talk about Mark F. Bumgarner he

was a 21 year old assistant scout master in North Carolina in September 1978 he was at Camp Shield helping to manage a camp with several other adult leaders late one night after most scouts and adults had went to bed he struck up a conversation with another boy I think they're just like sitting around a camp fire and they talk for a while everybody else goes to sleep and quite suddenly when they're alone Bumgarner sticks his hand into the boys pants and fondles his genitals the boy tells him to stop so Bumgarner says the cartilage in your penis is similar to your nose and I can break it Jesus yeah yeah so I mean

like I try not to get on the whole like you know vengeance side of things but just shoot that guy yeah just shoot that guy we don't need that guy that is just like you know sometimes you fantasize about a righteous kill you know yeah yeah I would be one yeah just just little little little shallow grave in the woods you know just like that's all that guy needs the earth just the planet yeah benefits a little bit yeah this one I think when you threaten to break a child's penis when your hand if he tells about you molesting him you don't deserve to live anymore you don't know that's that's the that's the end of

your right to exist I argue yeah my opinion I yeah it's funny cuz like before this podcast I never thought there were levels of pedophilia in which I would that's that's a high one right yeah that's one is like oh he's like I mean yeah pedophilia is evil but he's like evil and evil yeah pedophiles are disgusted by that like yeah not yeah anyway like that he that's like the worst level probably of pedophilia the that I can imagine is that that kind of thing yeah that's that's the top of the pedophile pyramid yeah so after this terrifying experience the kid went to his father who reported this to the Boy

Scouts rather than to the police the BSA investigated the matter and after what the National Office described as considerable discussion decided that bumgarner deserved a second chance because again it would be still bad but different if it was like well he was caught you know massaging a boy in his jacuzzi and the boy's shirt was often like whatever like that's bad to let that go on he threatened to break a child's penis how do you give a second chance to that yeah the reason why is because bumgarner was an Eagle Scout and the son of the pastor whose church sponsored

the troop yeah there it is yeah there it is so he kept working for the Boy Scouts spending time in close proximity with children absolutely unmonitored he was arrested several months later for sexually abusing two Scouts during a camp out he pled guilty and was expelled by the National Office who added yet another name to the P files six years later oh yeah you thought this was done you thought we were done with bumgarner come on six years later bumgarner gets out of jail and back into the Boy Scouts he moves from North Carolina to Virginia and he becomes assistant district commissioner to the Fairfax

Boy Scouts this was 1984 it was two years later 1986 before the National Organization realized that this pedophile had gotten back in they didn't find it on their own convicted convicted pedophile yeah and they only find out that he's gotten back in because he gets convicted again he gets caught sexually battering two boys and sentenced to six years in prison just like well just this how could we have known how could we have known every single time yeah the Los Angeles Times continues probation was also given to Floyd David slusher a 19-year-old staffer at a Boy Scout camp in Germany who was

caught abusing a Scout in 1972 and sent home to the United States even after he was caught they had to physically restrain him from attempting to visit the Scout he was molesting a Scouts official wrote to headquarters a file was opened but slusher was allowed to continue working with Scouts so again another Boy Scout leader is like this guy is such fucking pedophile that we had to physically stop him from going after this kid after we caught him like it's like a cartoon of a pedophile yeah yeah and the Boy Scouts are like this guy deserves a second chance yeah like when did the second chance program started

this is because you hear that like oh they gave a second chance you assume it's something like like oh he like showed them some weird pictures and they decided there was plausible which again is not okay but no right these guys are like this is hardcore shit these are convicted fucking child rapists yeah and they're just like yeah I feel like we give him a second chance we had to see we had to physically restrain the guy from doing more molestation yeah like come on let me go they're like it was romantic so slusher also shouldn't let a guy named slusher do damn near anything absolutely name that's not an okay name

so he's allowed to keep working with the Scouts and he goes on to molest at least eight boys in a Boulder Colorado troop threatening to kill them if they told anybody according to the Boulder County Sheriff's Department yeah yeah yeah the detective in Boulder County wrote quote almost every Boy Scout in troops 75 and troops 73 has been approached sexually by slusher on one time or another adding that the victims are too numerous to interview the thing is like I can't interview all the kids he molested because like I don't have that kind of time the Boulder police don't have the time to talk to all of this

guy's victims we're not authorizing any OT right now so we can investigate this single person I mean in fairness they probably had plenty to put him away and he pleads guilty to one account of sexually assaulting a child the Boy Scouts continued the practice of offering probation and suspension to prominent men accused of abuse until 1988 as the result of a high-profile abuse case in San Mateo, California Richard Stingler was the adult head of a sea scouts unit which is kind of like a for older boys closer to adulthood like elite like you're doing like boat shit right like oh yeah cool stuff it actually

was the thing I wanted to do but Texas is not as easy to do that yeah so like the Boy Scout Navy yeah the Boy Scout Navy yeah you gotta that's always a red flag when your organization starts a sea or when they have a Navy it's especially a red flag for the Navy yeah I think all the Marines in the audience would agree with that you know there's the Goop crews like you know it's like when you take to see probably an issue you know someone says you know good people don't take to see by the way I'm crowdfunding to buy a yacht all of my followers to live on we're gonna sail around the ocean we're gonna look for

gold it's international waters anything international waters baby any there's no laws in international waters make our own society our civilization stop it Sophie come on all right well no fun here's some ads during the summer of 2020 some Americans suspected that the FBI had secretly infiltrated the racial justice demonstrations and you know what they were right I'm Trevor Aronson and I'm hosting a new podcast series alphabet boys as the FBI sometimes you gotta grab the little guy to go after the big guy each season will take you inside an undercover investigation in the first

season of alphabet boys we're revealing how the FBI spied on protesters in Denver at the center of this story is a raspy voiced cigar smoking man who drives a silver hearse and inside his heart like a lot of guns he's a shark and on the gun badass way and nasty sharks he was just waiting for me to set the date the time and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen listen to alphabet boys on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast I'm Lance Bass and you may know me from a little band called in sync what you may not know is that when I was 23 I traveled to Moscow to train

to become the youngest person to go to space and when I was there as you can imagine I heard some pretty wild stories but there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down it's 1991 and that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on earth his beloved country the Soviet Union is falling apart and now he's left defending the Union's last outpost this is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space 313 days that changed the world listen to the last Soviet on the I heart radio app

Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts what if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science the problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price to death sentences in a life without parole my youngest I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday I'm Molly Herman join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI how many

people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus it's all made up listen to CSI on trial on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts we're back just sad so if you won't let me won't let me Hubbard nope all right well okay so this guy Richard Stingler in 1971 is the the head of a sea scouts unit and in 71 he gets charged with tying up and groping three boys this was the thing I alluded to in the first episode with the restraints is that like a knot did you get a merit badge for yeah I mean it's unfortunate to say this but a boy scout troop leaders

probably in the the most able to tie up a boy because he's probably pretty good at knots that really makes that merit badge a lot darker it does it does it's not great it's not great so he gets convicted and sent in 71 in sentence to three years of probation which I might argue the court system failed there too because I think tying up and groping boys probably more than three years probation longer for like smoking pot for like pot yeah yeah anyway the scouts suspended him during this period but they didn't kick him out when his probation ended a local scout executive and a number of parents lobbied for his

suspension to be lifted so clearly this guy had some sort of charisma was good at like convincing parents I don't know what he fucking told them maybe like it was a merit badge thing gone wrong but parents lobby for this guy which is settling I mean this is not again we this is not an unheard of kind of situation like this this occurs in other organizations and whatnot sure it's just like I mean yeah to me the Catholic Church you know not yeah I'm not excusing it one of them yeah but but but I understand a little bit more having like basically the the guy who talks to God being an important figure in your

life and yeah and like like standing up for the organization in the church and maybe even a specific priest in the church who's been accused of something because you're like that dude talks to God who am I to question that guy these are fucking volunteer scout master these are doing like cosplaying teaching you how to whittle and they're just like no but he's a good dude yeah he's fucking good dude like it I mean there's actually a just a tremendous amount in common with like the Boy Scouts and how this works and like and the Catholic Church yeah yeah yeah okay all right Jesus Christ let's get back into this so

so this guy after tying up and molesting several boys does three years probation and when it ends he gets successfully reinstituted to the Boy Scouts the local scout officer who lobbied for him being brought back in wrote quote I feel quite confident that no further problems will arise just fucking just an organization of marks everyone is a fucking mark yeah 14 years later in 1989 a parent reported that Stinger had padlocked her 11 year old boy in a harness and watched as he hung in the air during a boat trip so that's good that's fine the BSA called the police and the police go to Stinger's

home and they search it and they find dozens of restraints and an enormous cache of child pornography naked photos that he took of boys that he had blindfolded and like tied to things at least one is a picture of a naked six-year-old boy that he blindfolded and tied to a bed like profound child abuse on a yeah yeah and again they catch him 14 years later he's doing this the whole time that's what the photos show that he'd been the whole time he gets back in he's just tying up and molesting kids so they call they call the cops when he what did he do to the kid he like tied him up he yeah he I

don't even know if this was sexual if he was just like being a dick probably both but he'd like padlocked an 11 year old boy in a harness and hung him in the air during a boat trip so his mom is just like that's physical it be I don't think she called it in a sexual issue she's like that's a salt that's when they call the cops there yeah I mean his mom calls the cops like this is probably the first she's aware anything's wrong and she immediately is like yeah we need to deal with this shit search his house and find out that he has been tying up and restraining and molesting kids for 14 years and has tons of pictures of it

Jesus so this guy's like both like a sexual abuser and just a literal fucking psychopath yeah yeah not that there's not bits of both but dangerous dangerous person yeah fucking shit so when all this dropped more than 24 former and current scouts came forward to report that they'd been abused by Stenger some had been victimized as early as 1958 up until 2015 the chief scout executive effectively the head of Boy Scouts was a guy named Wayne Brock Wayne got that August position in 2012 after a four-year stint as the deputy chief scout executive before he held this national position in 1987 Wayne was the local

Boy Scouts executive for the state of Georgia that year a scout master at a camp in his domain was accused of molesting a boy in a sleeping bag Wayne followed procedure which at the time meant documenting the allegation and sending that documentation on to Texas the leader's name and crimes were added to the confidential files the scout master was expelled but the police were not informed he left town Brock was promoted again and again and eventually wound up running the Boy Scouts as a different Los Angeles Times article notes quote as he and his recent predecessors rose through the ranks of

scouting they handled at least 120 cases of suspected sexual abuse dating from the mid 1970s according to a Times analysis of constant confidential Boy Scout files as district executives it was their job to gather evidence and witness statements determine whether to recommend a leaders expulsion and report their findings to headquarters which made the final decision in the process the officials had a front row seat on cases in which scouting's abuse prevention policies failed although the officials may have followed scout policy and violated no laws the files in several cases indicate that they did

not inform authorities or their communities of suspected child molesters who were expelled from the organization so this is the guy who runs the Boy Scouts right we got his history which isn't you know he's not a molester himself but he has a shall we say imperfect history of dealing with cases where kids are molested and they all all of their last names are just read we got Stinger we got Brock yeah we got slusher yeah yeah I like problems I mean just like they sound like a really scary 18 yeah so this is the guy who runs the Boy Scouts and his predecessor the guy who had headed the BSA before him was a

guy named Robert Mazzucca and before Robert another scary name I know I know and before he ran the Boy Scouts Mazzucca spent 20 years as a regional scout executive in California and Pennsylvania he dealt with numerous cases of child sexual abuse by adults and scouting one of these was the case of David Cooley an assistant scout master in Pittsburgh who was expelled in 1997 after police found videos that he'd made of himself having sex with children Cooley was eventually sentenced to 54 years in prison when the case broke it came out that Mazzucca had earlier been arrested and convicted in 1987 for molesting a

boy in South Carolina he'd been allowed to volunteer in scouting and molest kids after that because the Boy Scouts did not require background checks at that point and this brings us to a particularly dark part of the story oh are we gonna get dark now we're finally gonna get dark my man yeah so if you'll remember back at the very start of this story back at the very start of scouting Robert Baden Powell had rejected the idea that scouting volunteers should be filtered under the justification that this would reduce the number of adults who volunteered and slow expansion now at that time even though

kids were being molested child sexual abuse was not a widely understood phenomenon by the 1980s this had changed a number of high-profile cases of abuse of children had led several other leading youth groups to institute criminal background checks for their adult volunteers criminal background checks first became widely possible in 1985 and in 1986 the big brothers big sisters organization made this a requirement for volunteers and the Boys and Girls Club did the same thing in the same year 1986 was soon as this becomes possible responsible organizations who take care of kids are

like well of course we should do criminal background checks and our adult volunteers obviously that just makes sense the Boy Scouts don't do this scouting officials claimed that background checks would be too expensive and would scare away volunteers too expensive again it's it would have cost tens of millions they made hundreds of millions yeah I was gonna say the fucking Boy Scouts they don't have the money cash yeah everyone's a volunteer or pays so they said that do and they also argued that doing so what it best provide a false sense of security how many stories of guys with

criminal records getting back in the Boy Scouts they're like listen it's gonna happen one way or another might as well let me promise you even with criminal background checks kind of stop kids for adults molesting kids job is to help pedophile scout for boys yeah that's the name of the organization oh man oh god be prepared as a motto that means be prepared to get molested yeah you be prepared for what the adults in this organization are gonna do to you so the Boy Scouts didn't just refuse to require criminal background checks for their volunteers they poured huge

amounts of money into lobbying local governments because states start to be like well we as a state want to require FBI background checks for youth volunteers for organizations anywhere in the state and the the BSA lobbies local elected leaders to stop these laws it's it's I don't I don't understand like at that point you just you're directly enabling it this is like is this like an Epstein thing like this like what is going on with you people at this point it sounds on purpose I can't even yeah I don't know how much of a logical reason yeah I think so I just like this is the way it's always been I think some of it

might some of it is probably that there are pedophiles in the organization who were or want this and some of it might be well shit if we do this people will find out how many adults have been molesting kids and the Boy Scouts yeah and that that's not gonna be good for us burn the P file or whatever yeah what the fuck yeah damn so the BSA did not ultimately start requiring criminal background checks for volunteers until you want to guess what year oh I'm at 2003 2008 by this point hundreds and possibly thousands of men with criminal histories of child molestation were allowed into the Boy Scouts most of

these men went on to abuse more children from the very earliest days after the decision not to require background checks this was recognized as a problem from yet another Los Angeles Times article in 1989 a scout committee chairman in St. Paul Minnesota decried the organization's half-hearted screening in a letter to headquarters BSA is only creating an illusion of performing what they claim K. Russell Sias wrote to scout chief executive bin love it becomes quite clear that BSA is more concerned with passing the buck than an accepting responsibility for those who are its adult leaders that

same year a Las Vegas scout master with a criminal history of exposing himself to boys was arrested for sexually abusing a 12-year-old scout one parent said casinos did a better job of screening workers honestly yeah yeah the parent wrote to scouting officials the black eye which scouting has suffered in this could easily have been avoided if the council had taken the simple expedient of doing a background investigation I mean yep yeah yeah I mean I don't I just don't I don't understand it at this point it just it wasn't the money they don't want to pay the money at that time some that has to

be some of it because of what we're about to talk about because mmm it gets worse we have not hit bottom yet Matt are you excited I'm just like my blood pressure goes any higher motherfucking die yeah we have we have oh boy so while the boy scouts are giving child molesters probation covering up abuse refusing background checks at yada yada yada children keep coming forward to tell their stories and by the 90s again this book comes out in 93 it's getting more known right that this is a problem the organization has and as a result once it becomes clear to people at least you pay attention that like this might

be a systemic issue some parents of kids who get molested try to sue the organization claiming a pattern of abuse enabled by the very structure of the BSA itself confronted with these threats in the form of children entrusted to the BSA and abused by men that organization had refused to properly vet the boy scouts viciously attacked the victims and their families in one case two boys in Michigan alleged that they had been molested quote hundreds of times by a troop leader the BSA denied any responsibility and instead in court blamed their widowed mother they claimed she had failed quote to provide

adequate supervision over the volunteer they had approved wow yeah your fault your kids got molested you weren't watching hard enough over the guy that his whole job according to the ethos of our organization is to help like single moms raise the kids you didn't it's your fault that yeah you should have done a background check on yeah you should have done a background check yeah don't just scream come on and it gets worse from the LA Times quote in 2002 Gerald Schwartz a 42 year old former scout master in New York admitted to abusing a boy in his troop in the 1990s after being secretly recorded saying he did

something very very wrong and apologizing to the boy Schwartz pleaded guilty to four counts of sodomy and was sent to prison despite the conviction and the victims testimony that Schwartz raped me and forced me to perform oral sex on him the scouts in a motion to dismiss the subsequent lawsuit contended that the sex was consensual what the fuck yep wow yeah we gotta burn it down this is yeah we gotta burn this shit down this is not this is not salvageable holy fuck yeah yeah that's bad that's the worst these guys are you know it's so much worse than I thought it was yeah it really is yeah I'm not I'm not pro

scout no more no no this is definitely turned me around honestly yeah fuck them yeah in the 1980s in Oregon one man alleged that scouting troop leader Timur Dykes was allowed to continue his leadership position after he admitted to molesting 17 boys and this kid molested them after that yeah it took decades for one of the boys victimized by Dykes to seek legal recourse but when he did at a trial in 2010 regional BSA official Eugene Grant blamed his parents for letting their children go to Dykes his apartment to work on may merit badges and attend the scouting sleepover which maybe there's

some questionable parenting calls being made here but you let him into your organization and let him stay after he molested 17 boys and also like you know it's like you were saying it's like you trust you trust him he's an ego scout right yeah fucking a but the Boy Scouts representative said in court his parents should have known better I think it's criminal you let him stay in the Scouts after he admitted to molesting 17 boys and the parents are the criminals is wrong with you these guys we got it I don't understand I'm not gonna say you can say that in a court of law and not immediately burst into fire yeah I mean

just like yeah murder is wrong right yeah kind of in some cases I'm not trying to say publicly right now anything that's gonna get me in trouble but I feel like sometimes murder is good is yeah yeah that's a reasonable thing to feel hearing this story like they said these words out loud and the fact that no one was just like yeah the value of brickings that's a brick in that somebody should just be like okay I gotta hit this guy with a fucking brick yeah you don't get to say that not get hit in the face with the brick you know holy shit that's that's brick in words very easy to break that guy thankfully the Oregon

jury rejected his line of argument and found the Scouts liable for almost 20 million dollars in damages this is the case this is why we all like know in mass about the problem now this case breaks open the floodgates of abuse claims against the Boy Scouts and it's during this case part of the discovery in this like 1200 of the P files are revealed and and put into the public record because they're trying to show like there's a pattern of abuse right these guys keep getting in and abused in the Boy Scouts let them in again this is what led to all of the Los Angeles Times articles we've quoted so far

because once these things are made public because if it's introduced into like a legal case in that way it's like no one can see that so they start combing through this stuff and it the other they start doing like other stuff gets released it's it's the this is the blood in the water you know yeah journalists start finding out other details of sorted Boy Scout sexual abuse history and more victims start coming forward an avalanche begins one issue that confronted many victims is the fact that some states had very strict laws regarding the statute of limitation for sex crimes so like a lot of these

guys they were abused in like the 50s you know and like now as an adult who's like these stories are heartbreaking some of these men are like I was never I was abused in like the 50s the 60s I was never able to like have a relationship that I was right never been able to feel intimate with anybody like this yeah there's cases of people who commit suicide one guy there were molested and he's like yeah my brother became addicted to drugs and died of an overdose and like did he never recovered from this you know yeah it's I mean anyone who knows a victim of childhood sexual abuse knows how how deep like uniquely evil of an

act it is to inflict upon somebody and and how yeah the stories are just fucking so when these guys start realizing I'm not alone people will believe me now and also maybe if I speak up this will help to protect other kids you know so they start to come forward but on a lot of states they can't bring charges against the people who victimize them or the Boy Scouts because of the statute of limitations so many states when they realize how many these kids are out there to their credit a bunch of state lawmakers put forward bills to expand the statute of limitations and allow charges to be pressed further away

from the time of the abuse to be like well shit maybe we didn't really we didn't make these laws considering everything that was happening and like it's we need to we need to allow these people a chance to get justice the Boy Scouts spend a fortune in lawyers and lobbying fighting these bills wherever they crop up once again devoting for huge financial resources which they'd said we're not worth spending on background checks to try and make it harder for boys victimized by BSA officials to seek justice from the Washington Post quote the group retained lobbyists in Georgia in New York

where lawmakers say such action helped stall proposals that included look-back windows allowing adults to take legal action over decades old claims it has hired lobbyists in Michigan where similar proposals are being debated the bills would give adults who were abused as children a second chance to file suit if they missed their first opportunity under state law opponents of the state proposals including the Boy Scouts and Catholic Archdiocese argued that open ended look-back periods violate due process and would put groups in the tough position of defending themselves in cases from the distant past I love

like the people the Catholic Church coming together coming together just like a fucking rapey Voltron yeah trying to be like this is just wrong and this is I want to belabor a bit on the the argument they're making which is that this is unfair because it puts us in the position of defending our organization from actions that other we weren't in charge of the Boy Scouts on the set this was 50 years ago yeah completely different group of men who were in charge like how can we be held responsible today for the actions of two generations you know leaders from two generations ago yeah I don't think this

is a good argument for one thing as we have discussed the historical record shows that the BSA's attitude towards sex abusers and the ways in which you enable them and defend them has not wavered since the days of Robert Baden Powell from Baden Powell's time to the fucking 2000s the Boy Scouts are doing basically the same shit yeah for another the same officials who led the BSA in the late aughts had been the ones in the 70s and 80s furthering the hide and ignore policies that enabled sexual abuse of children in April of 2019 an expert who had been working with the BSA estimated that as many as 7,819

adult volunteers and staff members had sexually abused boys over the course of the BSA's history he suggested they were responsible for harming as many as 12,254 victims that's the BSA's expert right now if that were it if that were the extent of the problem this would be a huge problem but it turns out that was a drastic underestimation a little over a year later in November of 2020 after a series of lawsuits and settlements more than a hundred thousand alleged victims had come forward to claim they had been sexually assaulted as children in the Boy Scouts so that's a hundred thousand who have said I was a victim yeah yeah

and this is in the last year fuck yeah the Boy Scouts have filed for bankruptcy claiming to be devastated by the allegations there's a number of fucked up things in the fallout of this one of the most the worst things so the Boy Scouts were stewards of a huge amount of wild lands right for campgrounds and stuff then they were right that they would take care of they've sold a bunch of that to developers a lot of that shit these like this like pristine wilds they've been turned into like housing developments and shit because the Boy Scouts went broke trying to defending themselves from all the rape that their

members did it's um it's just like a comprehensively bleak story oh my god they can't even redeem themselves and make them like public lands they're just immediately like sell it to pay for lawyers to attack these kids hey if I can't touch kids on this land then I'm gonna fucking build condos on it yeah fuck you wow story of the Boy Scouts yeah oh my good god dude I mean it's like yeah usually when I you know the name of the show behind the bastards it's like usually it's like the plural is because you have many episodes covering specific bastards this is one it was just like one bastard at the beginning and

then just an endless slew of bastards yeah and it's too many bad I think I'm on bastard overload and yeah I want to I want to do some righteous murder let's do a righteous kill together dude yeah yeah let's go um Sophie can you uh can we can we like uh get like a write off some some money for murder tools I mean that we do that probably not but all right well what about a bug so that we could go to international waters yeah in international waters it's legal so stop try and pull over come on right it'll be like sea org but like but yeah but good a good sea org they're good but not yet so if a you have a very closed mind

towards sea orgs and I don't think that's fair to all the good sea org yeah like uh like the I don't know the surfers navy yeah they'd probably chill yeah come on mmm no I don't think it's gonna happen um I mean you know we can do it on land I guess but the point is is I'm currently furious and I'm disassociating so I've had a good time yes so you had a good time on my show well I'm sure everyone's dissociating now so um have a good time staring into the distance and yeah and just kind of like my dark thoughts yeah yeah have a good time losing touch with your corporeal body as the rage within you

becomes transcendent yeah yeah that's um that's a it's a type of drug rage is a type of drug rage a hole yeah yeah I'm just gonna get some rage a hole on right now I need a Xanax yeah rage out with your page out I don't know yeah I don't know boy Matt you got any pluggables to plug um yeah I do sopranos podcast pot yourself a gun check it out we're about to start season six by the time this comes out a will season six episode one will be out it's a great show film drunk broadcast that's us but same guy's talking about movies right I want to want her to dedicate this to my childhood friend

Johnny Aaron you know you listen to this show Johnny Aaron you're a you're a good you're a good man sorry it was the molestation one yeah this is a rough episode to get a shout out but you know fucking hey you can't all be winners you know man yeah yeah thanks thanks for having me back yep thanks for coming back and also sorry alphabet boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations in the first season we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests it involves a cigar smoking mystery man who drives a silver

purse and inside this hurts like a lot of guns but our federal agents catching bad guys or creating them he was just waiting for me to set the date the time and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen listen to alphabet boys on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast what if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price to death sentences in a life without parole my youngest I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app apple

podcast or wherever you get your podcast did you know Lance Bass is a Russian trained astronaut that he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow hoping to become the youngest person to go to space well I ought to know because I'm Lance Bass and I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down with the Soviet Union collapsing around him he orbited the earth for 313 days that changed the world listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or

wherever you get your podcasts