Behind the Bastards - Part Two: The International Church of: Drink Bleach

Episode Date: July 18, 2019

In Part Two, Robert is joined by Billy Wayne Davis where they continue discussing Jim Humble.  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science?

And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest? I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back! I mean, no, that's not how I open this. It's behind the bastards. The podcast that I do, Robert Evans, bad people, talk about them. Normally I have a more creative intro than that, but I fucked it up thinking we were coming back for an ad break. But it's the second part of our episode on The Church of Drinking Bleach with Billy Wayne Davis, my guest. That's also the sitcom I just pitched. The Church of Drinking Bleach with Billy Wayne Davis.

We're going to pass. We're going to hard pass. I feel like HBO, like After Game of Thrones ended, they're looking for a new epic series. I really think Drinking Bleach with Billy Wayne Davis might fill that GOT shaped hole in all of our hearts. Of people die and there's more fucking than you would think. Oh boy. Well, after my worst intro of all time, I assume Sophie's nodding her head at that. Let's get back into our tale. So, when we ended the last episode, we had just introduced the fact that in this episode we will be talking about Carrie Rivera. Rivera is someone who I misspelled as Kelly Rivera in most of this episode, but her sure name is Carrie Rivera.

And she is the person who is responsible for spreading the idea across the world that Drinking Bleach is a cure for autism. So she, okay, she's like the miscavige to Hubbard. If Jim Humble is the Elron Hubbard of Drinking Bleach, Carrie Rivera is the miscavige. Yes, gotcha. Yeah, gotcha where she comes in. She's like, I like what you're doing. We're going to make it bigger. We're going to make it bigger and worse. Well, just more focused, which might be a smarter move because you can really sell anything to people who are desperate. And believe that like a mom and her intuition are better than 100 doctors being like, this is a bad idea. Which is a lot more powerful than the humans would like to admit.

Yeah, it's like the idea that mothers have some sort of like supernatural understanding of their children's health is like one of the most dangerous things in the world. It has probably killed more children than anything else. Then we all care to think about it. Yeah, because everybody believes a version of it. Well, they do know their behavior better than anyone else. And I think that bleeds into being like, I just understand them better. No, you understand how they behave in their routines. You don't know how the inside of their fucking body is working right now. And even then, I think a lot of mothers, like that's one of the one of the reoccurring themes of mass shootings is there's a lot of moms out there who really thought they understood their kid and then did not understand their kid. Yeah, which is like, in general, parents don't understand their kids and kids don't understand their parents and the only person who understands their kids, the only person who understands teenagers, period, is the band Coldplay.

They got it. They nailed it. Yeah, they nailed it. Chris Martin. He's just playful. So what started as the sacrament of a specific nutty church has spread across the alternative health ecosystem and turned into a cure for autism. According to a write up on Carrie Rivera from the website science based medicine Rivera started her work in something called the autism bio med movement. Now these are groups of parents mostly who are frustrated by medical sciences inability to cure autism and have spoken or have taken to a variety of dangerous treatments in order to heal their children. In 2012, Carrie spoke at the autism one conference, which is an annual anti vaccine symposium.

She claimed to have recovered, and that's her word, 38 children from autism in a single month. According to the website science based medicine quote of the time Rivera was running a clinic in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, that she called autism. In 2012, Clinica hyperbarica. Unsurprisingly, the website is no longer there. Fortunately, the almighty way back machine at archive.org provides the now defunct material we're interested in under protocols. So in the slides that are still held by the way back machine, Carrie claims she learned about miracle mineral solution while she was doing intense research in Google University, which is a term that you will hear from parents who self treat their children serious medical issues with nonsense. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's like that's a thing that they came up with and yeah, that's that face. They're very proud of it. I can't. This if I can say that with the strafe Google. I can't Google University. Can't say it. Yeah, one of my favorite memes that runs around in anti vaccine circles is like you know that meme that like the the the idea is like how people think I look or how my friends think I look how society thinks I look how I really look and it's like there's

nothing from like Burning Man to preppers to the LGBT communities. There's different variants of it. The one that I've seen for the like anti vaccine autism mom community is like how society thinks I look someone in a tinfoil hat how my friends think I look and it's like a crazy person and then how I really look and it's like she's surrounded by books and printouts of paper and like highlighting and stuff and it's like no you're just reading 100 different crazy blocks. Yeah, you're not doing medical research thing. Yeah, but they but they think because they're spending a lot of time reading about it that counts as research, which is, you know, a mistake. I make all the time. I mean, I don't make it. I know I'm dumb, but there's a lot of people who make that mistake of thinking I'm a serious researcher. Technically, I've been doing math my whole life. And I should be an expert at math. I'm not an expert at math. It's like that Malcolm Gladwell. 10,000 hours thing. Bullshit. Or you're like, No, I can't do basketball and I've tried for 10,000 hours.

It's what I've definitely walked for 10,000 hours, but I have like friends who do what you call it that a that a fucking magic walking around the city. I know. Yes. Yeah, parkour. Yes, parkour. And it's like I can't do that despite my 10,000, you know, hours of walking around. They've spent less than 10,000 hours to do in parkour. It matters what you spend the time doing. Or what you're reading. Yes. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Spending 10,000 hours Googling autism and vaccines will not do you as well as I don't know, medical school. Yeah. There's a difference between these two things. So after hours and hours of Googling, Kerry Rivera decided that autism was caused by pathogens. That's the conclusion she came to, which is a very common strain of thinking among like sort of the anti-vax community that there's different diseases that actually cause autism and these diseases are stuck inside of your vaccines. Some people think it's an accident that the diseases are there. Some people are like, No, it's a government conspiracy to make everybody autistic, but they believe that. What's the point of that? Who profits from the autism industrial complex? Yeah, I don't understand that. It's a lot of it. Selfish moms who are like, Why did this happen to me? Yeah, and the reality, and it's also this misunderstanding where it seems like if you look at the numbers that autism's gotten way more common in the last 20 years, and it's like, No, it's just that it used to just be something where most of the kids who had autism,

you would just call them bad kids and they'd get hit by their teachers and parents. And eventually they would stop acting as if they were different, although they would still be not neurotypical. And now we understand that, No, it's a spectrum of different sort of things and they have different sort of, you know, like ways to respond to them and allow these people to still function in communities and stuff like that. It's not like, it's not an epidemic that's new. It's just used to just hit kids with autism. And now we've understand that it's a thing. They're not just misbehaving to misbehave. And we're also, I think, mislabeling people as, you know, on the spectrum, like my mom does that. She's very, anyone that's like pretty intelligent, she's like, You know, I think he's on the spectrum a little bit. And you're just like, No, he's just a very smart person that doesn't like talking to dumb people. That's all. Yeah, he's, yeah, there's this, there's definitely a trend to it where it's like, Oh, anybody who's antisocial is on the spectrum is like, No, some people just don't like people. Yeah, it's like, I wish I could walk away like that. I don't think he's autistic. I think he's just got more balls than most. Yeah, he just respects his free time. He does. I'm jealous of that man. Yeah. Okay, yeah, there's anyway. So Carrie Rivera became convinced that autism was caused by pathogens. And of course, if autism is caused by pathogens, then MMS, which we know from Jim Humble is the ultimate treatment for any kind of pathogen, must be the perfect cure for autism. Carrie wrote quote, MMS kills virus bacteria candida neutralizes metals and MMS passes through the blood brain barrier. What more do we need?

How does she, how does she know that? How does she know that Google University? I forgot that she went to college. You forgot she went to Google. Yeah. Yeah. Now, Kelly is a particularly big fan of bleach enemas. That is her brand is bleaching, shooting bleach up your small child's asshole. That's like, yeah, that's her brand. She recommends 10 to 15 drops of MMS and 500 milliliters of water, shot directly up the colon and left to soak for between 12 and 30 minutes. Nope. What don't you like about that, Billy? I mean, I was with you until it was like, then you just let it soak. I don't know why that was my line right there, but that was definitely a visceral line where I was like, now that's the point at which Billy's out. Yeah. I think we could do some fun like, yeah, shoot it up there or clean some stuff out. But no, we're going to let it sit in there. No, you got to let that bleach really soak. You got to treat it the way my mom treats like chloroxing the bathtub. I never put jeans in with a bunch of towels and see what that does. Jeans. That's going to be your asshole. See those jeans? So this treatment two to three times a week is what Carrie believes will recover children from their autism. Now, it breaks my heart that I even need to say this, but just so we're clear, bleaching your child's colon will not cure their autism. No, there is no cure for autism. I am not a doctor, but I will go out on Liam. You can quote me on that. It's one of those things. If there were some sort of magical cure for autism, the question of whether that was even an okay thing to do in all circumstances would be an incredibly complicated moral debate that's way beyond the scope of this podcast. But what was is within the scope of this podcast is to say bleach will not cure autism. No, I feel like we're on solid moral ground stating that one. I don't think it'll cure your hemorrhoids either.

Yeah, I don't think it cures anything other than maybe wanting your asshole to be a sparkling the color of sparkling white tile. Yeah, no, not. Yeah, it was like two round. Yeah, I think you can get that done in Beverly Hills. No, you can't, but they don't put it all the way up into your colon. They know better. I hope they don't. Unless, well, the action about thing. I just want to clean colon. Just let's get in there and clean it out. Yeah, somebody to swim in there if they need to. Yeah, I want it to be. I want my colon to have the same pH as a swimming pool. Yeah, my pool boy won't get anywhere near my asshole. So I'm gonna get it cleaned out. You know, if Carrie Rivera was just letting Beverly Hills moms have assholes that are fit for their pool boys, I would not have a problem with her. No, I would celebrate her. I would celebrate her. Someone found their passion. The dosing guidelines that I related back then are just what Carrie advises parents to start with. She's made most of her money selling one-on-one counseling sessions with parents treating their children. In those sessions, her main tactic is to constantly advise parents to up their kids' dose of miracle mineral solution. The author of that science-based medicine article discussed one video in which Rivera warns that all of this ass bleach can cause diarrhea, but that this is okay because it would just be detoxed diarrhea, which is, of course, not a thing.

Well, this is the best kind of diarrhea. Quote, she even likened the reaction she expected to a herkimer reaction, which is sometimes seen after the initiation of antibacterials for tick-borne relapsing fever. It was first described as a reaction to the treatment of syphilis with penicillin and is also seen after treatment of other diseases caused by spirochettes, such as Lyme disease and leptospirosis. Basically, this reaction is due to the release of endotoxin-like products by microorganisms as they die off during antibiotic treatment. Rivera also discussed what she referred to as the 72-2 protocol, which involves giving MMS every two hours for 72 hours. She also recommended fever therapy and argued that it's a good thing that MMS can cause fevers because it's waking up the immune system, which realized that there's, quote, autism in the house. Oh, it didn't know until you put some bleach in your asshole. That bleach, it's like a dog for your asshole that lets it know that there's autism at the door. She also exalted about how she loves the enemas so much for autism. No, I believe this part. I believe some parts.

Yeah, she definitely loves the enemas. Now, I should also note that Carrie Rivera's 2012 Butt Bleach slideshow ended with a D-Pack Chopra quote, Miracles happen every day, not just in remote country villages or at holy sites halfway around the globe, but here in our own lives. So that's magical, right? Now, bend over and put this in your ass. Now, that science-based medicine article on Carrie Rivera included a link to the blog of one of the mothers who administered Carrie's treatment to her child. The blog is chilling reading. The boy JoJo was 11 years old and had been diagnosed with autism at age three. His mom decided to start experimenting with autism biomed treatment based on her mother's instinct that it could help.

Those were her words. Quote, JoJo is given one ounce of the mixture hourly, so effectively he is getting one-eighth of a drop each time. His first dose was given after school at one p.m. He has now given eight doses only although my reading tells me that that is a minimum. I suppose I could increase up to nine to twelve doses a day, but I'm kind of leery of the possible increase in die-off effects too. That's, of course, the fact that it kills all of the bacteria in your gut and colon, which is bad for you. Yeah, yeah, you need that stuff. Yeah, now by the first day of this bleach treatment, JoJo had started to run a low-grade fever.

The fever and his cough got worse and his mom decided that this was due to parasites in his lung dying. So that's, that's cool. Later entries describe JoJo getting constipated and when that resolves, his mother thought that parasites were coming out in his poop. That theme continues throughout the blog. JoJo develops diarrhea, flare-ups of chronic eczema, and a variety of other side effects, which were, of course, just the normal effects of poisoning an eleven-year-old with enormous doses of bleach water. Now, JoJo's very, very, very, very, very profoundly dumb mother was at least smart enough to realize that her child's worsening symptoms necessitated direct intervention from a professional.

Unfortunately, that professional was Carrie Rivera. When she texted, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. When she texted Rivera about her son's constipation, Carrie responded, Do an enema. There is probably a worm in his intestine. And give more MMS doses orally if he is awake. More MMS now, please. I mean, it's like attempted murder is what that is. Right, right. This is attempted murder. Yeah.

I'm just like, I was like, where's the punchline here? There is no punchline other than these people are either very dumb, a mixture of dumb and desperate, or trying to kill their kids. Yeah. And I think it's usually just dumb and desperate. These tend to be, one of the real tragedies here is that, you know, there's a wide variety of expressions of autism. And a lot of people with autism, you know, are capable of communicating perfectly well, leading very normal lives, having relationships and families and jobs and stuff. But there's also a sizable chunk of people who are, when I worked in special ed, the term we used was low functioning. I don't know if that's the term they still use.

But these are, in a lot of cases, these kids are nonverbal. So they can't communicate with you in traditional senses. They can't use their words. And so that's one of the tragedies here, is that these kids who are getting poisoned with bleach can't tell anyone what's happening. They can't even tell their parents, please stop filling me with bleach. Which is like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's horrible. You know what's not horrible, Billy Wayne? Products and services.

But what is horrible was that ad plug, which was a, I mean, Sophie told me it was time, but we were just talking about the tragedy. Like the I have no mouth, but I must scream nightmare of being a child who has bleach forced on him by his insane parent. I don't know how to lead into products. It is a classic local news transition right there. Yeah. And all the school children died. But coming up next in sports, who would a district championship? Coming up next in sports.

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What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI. How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus. It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

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We're back. Ugh, great products. Really wipes the taste of bleach out of your mouth. Now, let's get back into talking about this poor kid who is having bleach poured into every orifice of his body by his insane mother. After days of this bleach treatment, Jojo began passing stool that had strange stringy bits of goo in it that looked a little bit to its mother like a worm. Jojo's mom posted pictures in her MMS Facebook group and all of the other moms were pretty sure that this was like parasites being passed through their kid's colon. Now, the reality when actual doctors looked at this is that it was bits of colon mucosa, which is the lining of the colon, and these bits were slowing off as a result of all the damage that all that bleach had done. But Carrie Rivera reinforced this mother's errant belief telling her that these were worm intestines and explaining that the outer skin is already digested and the inside intestines etc. disintegrates like this. So, the mom continued to give treatments for several months.

Eventually she became concerned that the worms did not seem to be extinct despite months of bleach treatments. Carrie agreed that this was a problem and prescribed a dose of Mabenzadol, which is a drug used to treat parasitic worms which the child did not have. So, cool. Now, if you keep putting bleach in your kid's butt, things that look kind of like worms but are actually their intestines will continue coming out forever or until the kid gets sick and dies or needs part of their colon removed. I mean, cool. Awesome. You know, I know all these doctors keep saying this isn't real, but I'm going to keep trusting that lady. I'm going to keep trusting this lady who I can just text and she says more bleach.

Yeah. Yeah, because that's how all the other doctors seem to operate too. Yeah. Now, the strength of this particular grift is the fact that while drinking and shooting bleach up your butt is bad for you, if it's fairly diluted, it probably won't kill you. Certainly it won't kill healthy people. Adults can drink a surprising amount of bleach without dying. Yeah, we all have those idiot friends. There have been two deaths associated with MMS, but for the most part it just causes intense discomfort.

So Carrie Rivera's autism parasite in a treatment nonsense has spread far and wide over the years. In 2017, a news report in the UK revealed that a Cheshire woman had been reported to the police for talking in a secret Facebook group about bleaching autism away. Emma Dalmain, an activist who fights against this particular species of nonsense, had infiltrated that Facebook group and reported the information to the police. She said, quote, the most extreme case I have seen to date is a six-year-old boy who had to have his bowel removed and a colostomy bag fitted after his parents gave him these enemas. So that is the worst case scenario. God. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, cool stuff. I mean, and they'll also probably get the measles too. Yeah. Because they're not vaccinated. Because they're not vaccinated and because their immune system is taking a major hit from all the bleach. Yeah, because it's like, hey, we're having to fight this thing we shouldn't have to fight every day. Yeah. Because I feel like we should just fight the mom, but we're too tired to go after her.

It's amazing how many of the world's problems wouldn't exist if people just weren't incredibly fucking stupid. Well, I think there's an ego to it. It's like everything else. Yeah. The ego. Oh, yeah. Because when I go home, and this isn't a great example. Let me give you a good example.

Anybody when you go home, there's cousins and stuff. I'm around. When you hear their wives or the moms talk to the kids and they're like, what you're saying is so wrong. I'm not going to correct it. But it's about like, well, I don't know this, but I make it up to you, so you don't know no better. And it just eats me up every time I'm back there. I'm like, the information you're giving is wrong because you're too lazy to even look it up. You have all the information on your phone, in your pocket.

Like literally all of the information humanity is ever acquired. Yes. You're picking a random blog from a woman who says to shoot bleach up your kid's asshole over centuries of medical science. Yes. Okay. And there's also an ego in like, I think this is often the parents who get involved in like the craziest treatments are like, they're doing better financially. There may be people with a lot more of an ego to them who take it personally that their kid has this illness. And see it as like, no, my kids should be perfect.

So number one, it clearly can't just be that sometimes people get autism and sometimes people get types of autism that render them nonverbal. And that, you know, mean that they're not going to be able to live a normal life. And that's just a thing that happens. No, it can't be a thing that happens to me because it means that I'm not perfect because this is my kid. So it must mean that someone's poisoning my child and I can fix it. Yes. Exactly. I think that's where a lot of it comes from too.

Yeah. That kind of like, well, I know. Yeah. I know. But you don't. You don't though, do you? It's one of those things, it's given me a lot of respect retroactively for some of the parents I knew when I was in special ed. One of the kids that I worked with was extremely violent to the point where he broke numerous people's bones and hospitalized several people.

And he was very large and his parents weren't into any woo bullshit or anything like that. They were insistent on keeping the kid in the home though, because a lot of people had advised them to like, you put the kid in a full time sort of residential facility because he's dangerous. And this kid's dad, his mom got, I think her like, jaw broken. And then a month later, his dad had his arm broken and they were still intent on keeping this kid in the home because that's what you do to your kid. You take care of them if they need your help like this. And at the time, I thought they were crazy. And now I've come around to believing like, no, that's just somebody with a really intense understanding of the responsibility that a parent should have to their kid. The people who put bleach up their child's asshole and refuse to accept the reality of their situation.

That's crazy. Yes. No, without a doubt. No, it is. It's because it's like that old Chris Rock bit about like, oh, you're just bragging about the things you're supposed to be doing. Yeah. Got a good dad, blah, blah, blah. He's like, no, you're just, you're supposed to do those things.

That's the thing. Yeah, it is like a, it's, the nonverbal thing is very fascinating. We have some family friends who have a adult nonverbal, but they learn that he can, they give him a keyboard and he can say things. Yeah. Like almost 18 or 19, I think, before that happened. And I was thinking about that moment when they learned that he could communicate and he was listening. Like I get chills talking about it because it is that thing of like, yeah, if you're shoving bleach up his ass his whole life, you don't never have that fucking moment where it's like, Yeah.

There's just something with his wires, he can't verbally communicate, but he's very smart and very together. That's what's so evil about it to me. Instead of devoting the time that a real loving parent would devote to trying to figure out how to make your kid's life as good as it can be and how to communicate with them and work with them, you're just so obsessed with quote unquote fixing them or recovering them as, as Carrie's language that you never for a second listen to them. It's the same mental thing where it's like, you think something's wrong with your kid because they're gay. It's that religion. Yeah, exactly. I think religion has a little bit to do with both of what we're talking about.

And it's this, there's nothing inherently wrong about the idea of like, I'm sure there's a lot of great mothers out there who feel that their mother's intuition is very important and have been right about a lot of things. But it's this idea, there's, I think, I think where it gets dangerous is when mother's intuition crosses the line into, I don't need to listen to anyone, including my kid, because I know what's best for them. Yeah. Yeah. That's what's gross to me. Anyway, I found an NBC seven Chicago article about Carrie Rivera from 2015. It interviews Dr. Karen Radwan of the University of Chicago. He expressed utter despair at the number of parents who had reached out to him to express a willingness to try any kind of treatment, even insane, dangerous and bleached based ones to cure their child.

They will tell me, I know there is not much evidence in this, but I still want to try it. I know that sometimes people will close their eyes because of their desperate hopeless situations. God. Yeah. They also talked to Carrie Rivera. She claimed that her own son, diagnosed with autism at age three, was proof that her treatments work. Quote, my son was immediately looking me in the eyes. He was smiling at me.

He was back, almost as if he had come back to his body. Autism is treatable. It's avoidable. And I believe that it's curable as the symptoms go away. The diagnosis fades as well. Carrie Rivera. Yeah. Now, the Guardian caught up with Carrie next. By that point, she'd started to claim that her protocol had cured 170 children of autism.

She said the people who criticized her for poisoning children with bleach were haters and trolls. Quote, if in fact chlorine dioxide were this toxic poisonous bleach, there would be a sea of dead children. How can this be bad if people are healing and nobody's dying? Solid logic there. Yeah. Talk to the hairdo as a colostomy bag. I actually found a response. Carrie pinned to her critics after her book on bleaching autism away was removed from Amazon.

It included her directly addressing the criticism that her miracle cure is just bleach. Quote, this is like done as a Q&A sort of thing. So here's the Q. Chlorine dioxide is nothing more than an industrial bleach. You might as well go to the store and buy Clorox and drink that. Carrie responds, yes, you are right that chlorine dioxide is used in industry. In fact, so is salt, water, vinegar, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide and countless other important chemicals. This does not mean it has no value as a medicine or food.

In fact, Coumadin, where ferrin is a common blood thinner, it is also useful as a rat poison. You don't just take war ferrin any old time you want. It has a lot of side effects. It's prescribed in specific situations and also in a different formulation that you use as a rat poison. So you shouldn't just, if you need some blood thinner, you shouldn't just eat some rat poison? No, no. In fact, do not do that. Oh, okay, okay.

Anyone who thinks, Carrie again, anyone who thinks the CD autism protocol advocates pouring bleaching strength CD in a child or adult isn't even close to having their facts straight, that chlorine is a chemical constituent of CD is a media spin master's dream come true. For those who have no knowledge of chemistry, I should point out that plain table salt has chlorine as a key constituent. The bleach you use to whiten your clothes is a very different chemical, sodium hypochlorite, and I highly suggest you never drink it or you will have a problem. Any journalist suggesting that household bleach is the same as chlorine dioxide should be fired. I should note that one point of the ABC report on MMS was to use it to bleach clothing because it's bleach. Also, no one is saying that chlorine dioxide is the same as household bleach. Everyone I've seen reporting on it points out that it's industrial bleach.

Geez. What is her game? Is it just to get money? I don't know. I suspect she really believes that it works. And maybe some of it's that there's a lot of moms out there whose kids are kind of on the, I guess you'd say lighter end of the autism spectrum and are able to communicate well enough to realize that if they keep doing certain, engaging in certain behaviors that are like behaviors associated with autism, your mom will keep force feeding them bleach so they stop doing those things because they don't want bleach in them. And then mom says, I cured my son. Yes.

And it's like, no, you tortured him into not acting a certain way. The same way kids with Asperger's syndrome used to get hit by teachers until they acted quote unquote normal. Yeah. Like, that's what you're doing. That would be my guess. Or she's just lying about it all because it makes her a lot of money. Totally possible too. But the insistence makes it seem more than just money because there is like an, like, there is like, I'm a right, right about this. Yeah. There's this, this, this righteousness cloaking it that makes me think she believes some extent of it.

Although with grifters, it's always hard to tell because the key to being a successful grifter is to never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever give up on the grifter admit that you've ever been wrong. And also, if you're someone who believes that you're a righteous healer, you'll, of course, never, ever, ever admit that you've ever been wrong. So. Yeah, because if it was just about the money, I think she would move on from a lot of these people instead of just being like, no, pour it up in their asshole. You should do that. Yeah. Like that kind of stuff.

Like, that makes me believe, like, on some level, she's like, this is, I am right about this. I am right on this. Yeah. Now, back in 2015, the attorney general of Illinois went after Kerry for violating section two of the Consumer Fraud Act. She had to sign a certificate of voluntary compliance, promising to stop advocating for bleach based cures of autism. So for a while, it looked like she was out of the bleach prescribing game. Unfortunately, plenty of other people are still in it. In 2019, NBC News published an article about a group of moms who'd gone undercover in several Facebook groups that were still spreading the gospel of bleaching autism away.

The moms were motivated by horrific posts from other dumber moms, like this one posted about a two year old who was not taking well to his bleach treatments. Quote, my son is constantly making a gasping sound. He won't open his mouth. He screams, spits, flips over. Again, this complete refusal to listen to your child's signals, like whether or not that two year old is verbal in any way, shape or form. I would say gasping. He's communicating. He's communicating.

He's saying, stop bleaching me. I think he's trying to tell you something right now. Yeah. Stop doing that. Don't do that to me. I don't like that. And this is why there's a charity called Autism Speaks and there's a number I'm not going to get into the entirety of the reasons that a lot of autistic people have issues with it. But one big issue they have, I think with Autism Speaks and with a lot of different sort of autism based charity organizations that aren't centered around actual autistic people is this focus on like ending autism.

Whereas a lot of these people will be like, that's kind of offensive. This is just like a part of who I am. And it's a thing that like makes my life different. But I don't like, it's kind of fucked up that you're just focused on eradicating this thing rather than listening to me and understanding me and people like me and helping us exist in society like everyone else. Like disability advocates, people who are like advocate, not that it's the same thing, but like you don't go to people with like, if you're if you're trying to help people with wheelchairs access more stores by putting it ramps. Like that's a good thing because you're listening to a problem people have. You don't just go like let's eradicate people who don't know like they have who can't walk or whatever. Yeah, we need to fit you guys that can't walk. Yeah, that'd be great, but it's not gonna happen. They did. They gave us me a chair that moves. Yeah, and if you put in this one thing, if you listen to what we're saying, you can make our lives easier.

Like yeah, it's all part of the same like fucked up behavior. It's just this is the most toxic variant of that. And sort of the people who are focused on eradicating autism are still doing a toxic thing but on a totally different sort of end of the scale. Yeah, anyway, I shouldn't wade into that too much because I have not done all my research on autism speaks or any of that but listeners should know there's like a very big debate within sort of the community of autistic people and advocates and whatnot over a lot of this stuff. So like the the the toxic stuff that Carrierevara represents is like again part of a spectrum of toxic behavior. Now, Billy, you know, it's not part of a spectrum of toxic behavior. I do. I have the products and services that support our show through their advertising dollars. I hope it's like for bleach. Yeah, I hope it's just bleach. Bleach. You drink it. It's for curing. It's for curing. Depressed by the state of the world in the year of our Lord 2019 bleach. You won't be here as long. We would become billionaires in a year. Yeah.

All right. Products. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you hey, let's start a coup. Back in the 1930s, a marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the US and fascism. I'm Ben Bullock and I'm Alex French. In our newest show, we take a darkly comedic and occasionally ridiculous deep dive into a story that has been buried for nearly a century. We've tracked down exclusive historical records. We've interviewed the world's foremost experts. We're also bringing you cinematic historical recreations of moments left out of your history books. I'm Smedley Butler and I got a lot to say. For one, my personal history is raw, inspiring and mind blowing. And for another, do we get the mattresses after we do the ads or do we just have to do the ads?

From I Heart Podcast and School of Humans, this is Let's Start a Coup. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI.

How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus? It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC. What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there, as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991, and that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on Earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left offending the Union's last outpost.

This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space, 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back! I hope you enjoyed those ads for Bleach Co Brand Drinking Bleach, the only drinking bleach that also has a little hint of lemon. Itter curia. What if we could mix LeCroy with Bleach? I think we would print money. I think we'd own the mint. This Bleach tastes like pomegranate.

And there's no calories. Zero Cal Bleach is really the next level of this grift. So, yeah, I was talking about an NBC News article from just a couple of weeks ago about a group of moms who went undercover in several Facebook groups to try and talk about the fact that Facebook has essentially allowed the spread of this very toxic set of behaviors that's poisoning children and these mothers were abusing their children. NBC talked to several of the moms doing this activism. They also reached out to Kerry Rivera. Quote, Rivera declined to be interviewed by NBC News, but an email she defended chlorine dioxide in her credentials. This is a medical issue. I have a degree in homeopathy and work with MDs and PhD scientists, she wrote. Rivera did not respond to her request for more information about these doctors and the institution that granted her degree. So that seems above board.

Now, the article that I found also included solid data on the human toll taken by this incredibly stupid treatment. It noted that in the last five years, poison control centers nationwide have dealt with 16,521 cases of chlorine dioxide poisoning. 2,500 of those cases involve children under 12. 50 of those cases were life-threatening and eight people died. Now, we don't know how many of those people were autistic or how many of those poisonings involved purposeful MMS ingestion rather than terrible accidents, but they did review a separate FDA database that found the case of a six-year-old autistic girl hospitalized with liver failure from chlorine dioxide exposure in 2017. So it does seem to be happening. So that's cool. That's cool. I mean, I would act like I'm shocked, but there was a tide pod epidemic of people eating that for a while, so it's like... Yeah, I don't even know how much that was real and how much it was people. Like, nobody was taking tide pods to cure their illnesses.

No, that's true. But yeah, that was to get it fucked up, which is, I understand that appeal. As dumb as when my friends and I would drink an entire pint glass of tequila to see how much we could vomit. Yeah. Like, it was like, that's dumb and it couldn't land you in the hospital, but you know it's dumb when you do it. It's like drinking a gallon of milk because you know you'll puke at some point to see how far you can get. You know you're poisoning yourself. Yeah, you're about to puke. You're gonna puke. That's the whole point. You're going to vomit. Nobody's like, no, drinking a gallon of milk will get rid of that fucking tumor on your arm or whatever.

Well, that is just totally different. Yeah, I guess you're right. It's also like, the bleach thing is, it's just so wrong. Like, it's so clearly like this is not. Like, that's a desperate, it's just a weird, to me it's fascinating that the human brain can do those mental gymnastics to be like, well, this will probably work. Yeah. We are incredible animals. Yeah. Incredible, I mean, incredibly dumb animals. And I hate us. Now, that 2019 NBC article also included the horrible story of Jose Serrano, who is an Indianapolis father who in 2018 called the police several times to complain that his wife was forcing their two-year-old to drink bleach as an autism cure. The police called CPS, who removed the child from the mother's home. Jose and his wife were separated for reasons that I think are explained by the fact that his mom was, or his ex-wife was forcing their child to drink bleach.

Ram, communication issues. Yeah, yeah, communication issues. Serrano, 29, who was separated from his wife at the time, told NBC News that she had been secretly dosing their daughter in the bathroom to hide it from him and the rest of her family, who all disapproved. She was just frustrated with the autism, Serrano said. She learned about the concoction in a Facebook group, according to the police report. She wasn't listening to anybody, Serrano said. When we found out, we told her. Her brothers told her. I don't know if she's still in her delusional world, but she's always looking for the solution. Which, it seems like Jose's actually got a pretty good line on what's going on in these mom's heads. Yeah, yeah. Now, during this episode, I have expressed a lot of frustration at busybody mothers who poison their kids because they think they know better than doctors. But it's worth noting that this whole problem has only started to get better thanks to the equally dogged work of a group of activist moms who were horrified about all of the bleach poisonings.

Emma Dalmain is probably the first of these activists. She's a London based mom with autism herself and with autistic children. So you can see why the cause of stopping charlatans from selling autism cures is rather personal for her. She started her crusade by infiltrating Kerry Rivera's Facebook groups and making videos about the parents she found poisoning kids in those places. Her work led to a series of 2018 articles in the Daily Mirror, which prompted Facebook to close several of Kerry Rivera's pages. Quote, but administrators for the band groups, including Rivera, simply created new private groups and more carefully vetted would-be members. The problem is you managed to get one knock down and it reopens the next day, but it goes secret, Dalmain said. So unless you've got a good fake profile, which I have, and you're friends with people in these groups who will tell you where the next secret group is opened, you can't report them. A lot of them I'm not in and will never know about. So this is the problem. It's an adjacent problem to the issues of Nazis on the internet and stuff.

The Zuckerberg problem. Yeah. It's the people who invented these things only cared about spreading them as much as possible and never cared about, well, how will they be used? It's the gun industry in a nutshell. Look at all these AR-15s we're selling. Who's buying them? Look at how many we're selling. Who's buying them? We're selling so many. We're selling so many. So many. A lot of guys posting swastika flags in all their AR-50. So many sales. Yeah.

Yeah, it is that. Yeah. It's such a weird industry. I mean, I understand it's predatory, but to be like, the grift is going after people that are in a desperate mode. Yes. This one, I don't think Humboldt started it. His was more like it was purely snake oil because he was... Yeah, he's a straight up snake oil.

It'll cure goddamn anything. It'll cure fucking everything. And then this one, she's like, no, but that's why I think there is some weird personal thing where she thinks she's figured something out too. Yeah, I think she's more likely to be a true believer than Jim Humboldt is. I think Jim Humboldt is a man with a dream of making money by selling bleach water. Yes. Now, you may have noted at this point that it sure seems like Carrie Rivera is not abiding by the promises she made to the attorney general of Illinois to stop selling bleach water as a treatment. Somebody should really do something about that. Maybe the attorney general of Illinois.

I don't want to tell the guy how to do his job, but it does seem like an issue. Although since Carrie is apparently based in Mexico, like all of these grifters eventually are, I don't know how much the attorney general of Illinois could actually do. Now, Delman's work inspired other activists, and these activist moms gradually raised enough awareness that the big companies whose platforms enabled all this horror were forced to take more action. Amazon banned Carrie Rivera's book from their platform finally in March of 2019. Rivera complained that this deplatforming would, quote, decrease public awareness of her message and that Amazon was responding to media-generated hysteria. Shortly after that, YouTube began a purge of some of Rivera's videos, removing several that directly encouraged the chlorine treatment. YouTube told NBC that the videos had been removed for violating their standards against encouraging activities that, quote, have an inherent risk of physical harm. Well, that's most YouTube videos.

Yeah, that is most YouTube videos. It's kind of the whole service at this point. Yeah, because you're like, this is going to get somebody hurt, or somebody's going to get hurt. Yeah. I mean, that's part of YouTube's charm. I love watching ski fails and base jumping fails. Yeah. But yeah, that seems less harmful than this. Well, that's a choice. It's like UFC. I don't mind that. Yeah, you chose to be in that situation, friend.

Now, Yahoo came next canceling Carrie Rivera's email account after an activist named Eaton emailed the company to let them know Carrie was using the account to push poison on desperate mothers. True to form, Facebook was the very last big company to do the right thing. They deleted Carrie Rivera's public profile. Rivera responded, Facebook wants to destroy our autism self-help community. Now, 31,000 families that came to this page for advice, questions, and solace have in essence been kicked off Facebook. That's not entirely true. See, Carrie Rivera still has a personal Facebook page as well as professional pages for her line of diet supplements. She's into the keto thing. So I'm going to guess those are only marginally less toxic than her bleach drinks.

So Facebook didn't de-platform her. They just said, we're not going to platform your bleach drinking business. She also still has a YouTube account and regularly shows up in videos on other people's channels, advocating chlorine treatment. I found her in one video that was published this March titled Healing from the Spectrum. It currently has more than 2,700 views. The video is a window into a very particular chunk of the internet crazy people ecosystem. I wanted you to take a look, Billy, at what is actually displayed on the screen while Carrie talks in this video, because it's something else. Why don't you try to describe what you're seeing to our readers there?

Listeners, not readers. People don't read podcasts. I mean, it is, on the left, it looks like four books that you would see. It looks like an Alex Jones documentary cover, but they're like books. Sacred Word Publishing, Bookstore for Truth Seekers. Yes. I mean, I was very right about that. I mean, there's always an all-seeing eye on every book cover with the triangle and then there's skulls and secrets. A lot of that conspiracy symbolism is all over the books.

And then, right, it's mercury poisoning and autism. It isn't a coincidence. And then there's this cute little blonde-headed boy that looked like he could be my son. And then it says, okay, can you let me read these out loud? We could just sum it up. There's, like, on the left, it's symptoms of autism in children. On the right, it's symptoms of mercury poisoning in children. And they're the same. It's just the same ones, exactly. Oh, my God.

Well, that proves it. Yeah, I believe that the same people who are trying to sell me a copy of the fantastic book, Secret Instructions of the Jesuits, know about mercury poisoning. Now, during this interview, Carrie plugs both her keto diet plan and her website about curing autism. I visited the website. The first thing you see is a ripoff of the Google logo, but in the name of her site, which is CD Autism, followed by the subheading Autism, avoidable, treatable, curable. If you're wondering what CD Autism stands for, it stands for Chlorine Dioxide.

So while YouTube has kind of removed some of her videos, she's still allowed to talk to audiences of thousands of people about Chlorine Dioxide as long as she does it on other videos and doesn't put Chlorine Dioxide in the title, because algorithms are super good at stopping the spread of toxic behavior. Now, on her website, Carrie now claims to have recovered 557 children from autism. Her website includes a link to her speech at the 2019 Autism One conference. So that's fantastic. In the speech, she brags about a video interview she gave recently that was viewed more than 200,000 times on YouTube.

Much of her speech seems to be her complaining, Laura Loomer-like, about the fact that she has been heavily deplatformed from social media. She includes a quote from Vlakov Havel, a Czechoslovakian politician and dissident. You do not become a dissident just because you decide one day to take up this most unusual career. You are thrown into it by your personal sense of responsibility, combined with a complex set of external circumstances. You are cast out of the existing structures and placed in a position of conflict with them. It begins as an attempt to do your work well and ends with being branded an enemy of society.

No. No. You have to be in those institutions to be thrown out of to begin with. You have to be doing the work the correct way for them to be like, no, you're creating your own martyrdom when you weren't even in the fucking thing. It's that mythos bullshit. Yeah. And for a little bit of reference about who Vlakov Havel was, who she's quoting, because he was an actual dissident. He was a direct democracy advocate, a humanitarian, an early environmentalist,

and a fierce opponent of the USSR who invaded his country in the 1960s. He was arrested multiple times. He spent four brutal years in a Soviet prison for his work, which was mostly like writing plays and speaking on the radio. Carrie Rivera, on the other hand, got partly kicked off of several social media sites because her bleach in him is boys and children. One of these people gets to call themselves a dissident. The other does not.

God. They do understand the power of language in certain buzzwords. Because that's a powerful word, dissident. Yes. It's sort of like how guys like Christopher Cantwell, the crying Nazi from the Vice Charlottesville documentary, has tried to rebrand neo-Nazism as the dissident rite because it makes it sound like there's something righteous about it

rather than like, no, nobody, you're not dissidents. Nobody wants you around because you're fucking Nazis. Yes. You're not a dissident, Carrie Rivera. Nobody wants you around because you're bleaching children to death. Yeah. You're not calling out some wrong and because of being swatted away. You're just being like, hey, stuff needs to be more wrong.

And people are like, no, no. And you're like, you guys are preventing. You're holding me back from doing my wrong. One of my real fucking pet peeves is when shitty people use quotes by like actual heroes to like try and draw a connection between the two. Like from everything I could tell, Vlachlov Havel was like pretty righteous dude, really put his ass on the line for the things he believed in

and standing up against a tyrannical regime that was like driving tanks over people. Like fucking Carrie Rivera, like I hate you so much. Well, he's just like, it's just proof you can't pick your fans. Yeah, you can't pick your fans. He's just like. As true and stand up as it is. Oh, yeah, Jesus Christ is. Medicine.

Yeah, proof you can't pick your fans either. You think he'd be like, whoa, whoa, you guys are taking a lot of what I did out of context. It would be funny if he came back and was like, no, the only people who got it right are the ones selling bleach water. Everyone else is wrong. I would just be sitting there smoking a side sort of smoking cigarettes and be like, huh, well, kind of like him now. Well, there's a man with a plan.

It's kind of funny. No, I was turning water into bleach water, not wine. That's a translation error. The guy that wrote that was a drunk, you guys. So I think that's most of what I have to say about Carrie Rivera, but we are not done talking about Miracle Mineral Solution quite yet because for some reason known only to the dark gods of chaos, no good grift ever truly dies.

In the wake of that NBC article, a number of major MMS adherents were spurred to action in order to protect their right to drink bleach and also shoot bleach up the butts of their children. Now, I will say this, I think every human should have the right to drink as much bleach as they want. 100%. Where you lose right, you can't put it in children's butts or make them drink. Exactly.

You yourself can drink as much bleach as you want. I will fight for your right to drink bleach on your own time. Me too. But not your kid. Now, many of these people who got angry at NBC for attacking the bleach drinking community, it's the thing we have in 2019, many of these people just so happen to be prominent and active members of the QAnon community. Yeah, of course they are.

Yeah, that's where we go. Yes. Yeah, of course we were going to get there. Oh, yeah, that's fucking beautiful. Jordan Sather, who brands himself on Twitter as a truth warrior and spiritual gangster with more than 90,000 followers, posted this on May 21st. YouTube removed my video on MMS three weeks ago, which was the most popular truthful video on YouTube about it.

Now the media is ramping out up their disinfo propaganda against MMS. Sensor truth, insert lies. That's how they've always done it. Now, in the response to this tweet, another QAnon fan named Keck Jackson replied, I'm actually drinking MMS right now for Strep. And guess what? It's working. Fuck you, Big Pharma and your fake news BS.

Come on, that's drinking bleach to own the lips. Fuck you, you can't stop me. And you know what? I'm actually fine with all of this. Yes. Like these people. Well, I'd be fine with it if I didn't suspect most of them had kids that they were also feeding bleach to. But like this Keck Jackson sitting alone in his laptop and drinking bleach, fine with it.

Yeah, that makes me happy on some level. Yeah. Where you're just like, well, this is good. Yeah. Now, Jordan Sather shot back to that tweet with the response quote, I've drank MMS, a.k.a. chlorine dioxide, brushed my teeth with it, breathed it, cleaned with it, used it topically. If MMS was a toxic bleach, I should be dead. Sorry, FDA and fake news media, you lose this one.

So it looks like the bleach drinking subculture still has quite a bit of gas left in the tank. It's hard to believe that if you're susceptible to drinking bleach, that it's also hard to convince you that it's not good for you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. You'd be probably shucking. If you're like, no, bleach is good.

It's good for you. No, bleach is going to heal me. Yeah. You're just like puking blood. You're like, that's the process. It's the healing process. It's the fucking worms coming out of me. No, when your eyes pop out, it's part of it.

It's part of it. It's part of the process. Oh, boy. Fuck you, FDA. Fuck you, FDA. I'm gonna keep drinking bleach. Fucking amazing. People are such remarkable creatures.

Well, it's like the lady that died drinking water on the radio. But at least she was trying to win a GameCube. At least that makes sense to a degree. She wanted a free GameCube and didn't think water would kill her. That is a good point where you're like, it's water. You're like, well, it does kill people a lot. And she would have won a free GameCube. I know.

That's like $150 right there. Yeah. She had more to gain than anyone drinking bleach. Yeah. And she actually died. The rest of them are like, I drink bleach all the time, I'm fine. Mm-hmm. They're like, well, drink more of it.

It does lead me to believe that if we started offering a free Xbox for the people who could drink the most bleach, we might get rid of a lot of our worst voters. Oh, my God. That could work. Or like a free show on Fox News, like you get your own show if you drink the most bleach. Mm-hmm.

You get your own Fox News show if you can drink the most bleach. We took care of a lot of nonsense today. If we wanted to like provide our own equally evil response to like far right voter suppression efforts in a lot of the south, like that's how we could do it. Free haircuts and bleach. Free haircuts and bleach. Oh, Jesus.

All right. Well, Billy, that's my whole script about the bleach drinking church and bleach drinking subculture. I will say this about both the episodes I've been on all four, I guess. But the two stories is it's like pop music where I'll never be, I'll never write a good pop song because I have too much faith in humanity to write a good pop. You know what I mean?

I'm always like, no one would ever like this nonsense. And then you hear a pop song and people are like, this is good and it only says just nonsense. But this is the same thing where it was like, I would never think that human beings, this would be something I could sell them. Yeah. And there's an element of respect that you have to have for Jim Humble, for just being the guy who is like, what can I claim as medicine

so that I can make money selling people? Ah, fucking bleach. Bleach. Like essential oils is an easy con. Yes. Like everyone likes the way they smell. Like people like nice scents. That's why incense has been a popular industry for fucking 20,000 years.

Yes. Like nobody likes bleach. The only thing we know about it is it's bad. Yeah, it's bleach. It's bad for humans. That's the one thing we know about it. And he's like, I think I can sell this to people and they'll drink it. I think I could get people to drink it this shit.

And he was fucking right. And he was right. And you know what? It is that, yes. Jim Humble. The kids thing is what bothers me. The woman that came along was like, let's give it to Kia Trek. No, it was a fun thing until then.

I was really enjoying this subculture until you brought defenseless children into it. Yeah, you can't. Come on, of course they'll drink it. They have to. Come on. They have to. You ruined the fun thing that Jim was doing. You ruined the fun thing.

You ruined bleach drinking for all of us, Carrie Rivera. God damn you. Jim Humble was just a decent, billion-year-old God Navy man who wanted to teach people the wonders of bleach drinking. Because he got zapped with knowledge. Because he got zapped with electric knowledge by aliens. So he says in the video that he thinks they were actually trying to hinder him from his discovery of Miracle Mineral Solution. I mean, he's got a lot of stuff going on. That much knowledge.

He's got a lot of stuff going on. It's just constant. There's a big old war going on in Jim Humble's mind. Yes, there is something going on in there. And both sides are in on it. Billy Wayne, you want to plug your plugables? Yes. You can buy my album at thirdmanrecords.com, thirdmanstore.com, and then BWDTour for all my dates upcoming.

I'm going to Providence, Rhode Island, Zaneys, Nashville, a couple other places. Just looking up, and then Billy Wayne Davis on all the socials. Billy Wayne Davis on all the socials. By his album, it will cure your Crohn's disease? No, what it will do is if you've been drinking bleach, it will heal you from that. From the bleach drinking. That's a good idea. From the bleach drinking.

But if you put it in your body, it won't do anything for that. Just oral it. No. Yeah. It will cause you horrible intestinal distress, much like drinking bleach if you eat it. Yes. Don't eat albums. Don't eat bleach.

But you know what you can eat. If you go to behindthebastards.com, find the sources for this episode. Print them out and eat that cellulose contains valuable digestive fibers. And carbon. There's carbon. And carbon. Everyone needs carbon. Everyone needs carbon.

So you can also go to Twitter and find me at I write okay and print out my tweets and eat them. Same benefits. You can print out tweets and Instagram pages from at Bastards pod. You can also buy shirts from T public as well as you know, cups and stuff. All of which you can eat and gain unspecified medical benefits from. And you can find the GoFundMe where you can send Robert and I to Haiti so we can become Reverend Doctors.

You're right. You can find the GoFundMe Reverend Doctor account so that we can become Reverend Doctor Billy Wayne Davis and Reverend Doctor Robert Evans. It's got a ring. It's got a fucking ring to it. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Sophie, have I forgotten anything? No. She says no. Have I remembered anything? She said yes. Fantastic. That's the end of the episode. Fucking turn off your headphones and go hug a cat.

Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian trained astronaut? That he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know because I'm Lance Bass and I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the Earth for 313 days that changed

the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.