Behind the Bastards - Part Two: The Phil Spector Episodes

Episode Date: April 2, 2026

Greazy Wil continues the story of Phil Spector, now with The Beatles!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, a podcast that this week is about Philem Specter. I'm fairly certain that's not what his first name is. Here to correct me, Greasy Will. That's actually, I think his name was Phileum. I have no reason to dispute that. That's legally the truth then. Yeah, absolutely. 100%.

I do want to lead off with saying that I forgot last episode, but I did want to mention I have made a playlist of all of Phil Spector's music. that it would be very, even though it's technically whenever you're doing, this is educational, so you can use music for anything that you want when it's educational. But I thought it would be, you know, especially with the new prestigious Netflix deal that you guys got. I didn't want you to have any, you know, copyright complications.

Uh-oh, what are you building to? No, I'm just saying, I just didn't want you guys have any complications, you know? So instead of what I think is Phil's most seminal song, instead of playing that, I'll play you my interpretation of it. Thank you all for listening. I will be here all week.

One of the night we met I knew I I found my show The kind that talks about M's called SOT. I love every second of that. I just want everybody to know Like this was not an AI song I legitimately made that song

I would never have accused you with that. I know but it's like right now there's so much like Oh yeah like you know like 50 cent does 50's song You know like do up you know and you're like No, I legit, I brought in a girl. Her name was Clancy. I shout her out. Shout out Clancy.

She was amazing. She crushed that Ronnie Specter vibe. She absolutely killed it. It was amazing. And I very much appreciate it. Yeah. But yes. You didn't really show that Wallace sound thing, too, that you were talking about.

That's literally what I was going for was trying to sound exactly like Phil Specter's be my baby, which is where we will pick up today. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. Beautiful. What an introduction. After this. Ha ha ha, ha, nailed it.

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And it's very empowering. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. So back to our story. Back to our pal, Philip Specter. His career is exploding, right? this is where we're at right now. His career is exploding. He is the hottest.

He is Max Martin in the 90s, right? He just wrote Britney Spears, and now he's working for Christina Aguilera. And then he's working for, you know, it's just like hit after hit, after hit, after hit. And like I said before, in the last episode, we talked about he was the tycoon of teen. Hate that.

Hate that. So, yeah, so he's, yes, it's a very upsetting name as a, you know, this. But to be fair, he is probably only like 20 years old. Like, he is barely not a teen himself at this point. And this is a very, very peculiarlyer

time in history, right? Because most of his competition is like 50, 40, right? They're like old dudes, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like, like, in the early days, like, it's very funny, but they talk about this all the time. And like, basically, if you heard a

song by a young black girl group, it was written by an old white Jewish man. Without fail, that's what, I mean, you know, not quite yet, but very soon the chess brothers are going to have chess records in Chicago. It's going to be everything, you know, everything that exists, you know, and music is going to come out of there for a little while. It's like there is absolutely, uh, there is just a, a world of old white dudes writing, writing pop music for teenage girls. And Phil, Spector is the Maverick. He's the young guy. He's, and he's doing it different. He's very different, right?

All right. So the studio becomes his creative space. The studio becomes, you know, everything to him. He's using it as part. It's like the, it's really in these moments, too, and he's making these wall of sound productions. It is basically Phil Spector and the studio is the, is the musician. He's bringing in randos from the parking lot to sing background. like there's layers of percussion and shit. It was like, if you could keep a beat at all, it was like, cool, go in there and play this thing. He would have multiple drums, like all sorts of stuff going on in these productions.

They were, they were, the musicians were interchangeable. The studio was important to him. Gold Star Studios in Hollywood on Vine, which is no longer there by the record. It was a shitty studio in the 1960s. I got to break it here to say, one of my favorite early in our friendship members, was coming to visit you at the studio you were working at in L.A. for the first time with Lennie

and, like, crack in a sixth pack when you're, like, putting the finishing touches on something. And you're like, you know, this is where they made pet sounds. And I was like, oh, this building. You're like, no, like this room is the room. Yeah. Yeah. Here. Yeah, right here.

Yeah, which again, I mentioned this, the first episode, but, you know, part of my love for this whole story is that this is all combined. This story is all one story. which also includes Charles Manson. I don't know if you know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charles Manson's in this whole thing too. And I actually have a little bit like, dang, I should pivot from this one.

The next one I come over here, I should Charles Manson, Beach Boys. Oh, it's good. We've talked a little bit about the Beach Boys and Charlie Manson, but not as much as the subject deserves. Oh, my God. It is, I mean, it's, we'll get there. We'll get there. That's a later, but that's a little special thing for you guys in the future. You'll love it.

So, yeah, so, you know, Phil is working at Gold Star. The Beach Boys are, Brian Wilson actually is part of these early, like, background people, not singers. He's like a hanger on. He's like showing up places and being like, oh, Phil's working. And he's a kid and he's just like, oh, I just want to see what Phil is doing because Phil is the guiding force of what would become the Beach Boys, which would then become the Beatles' is like whole vibe on how they just were not doing. Phil is the architect of this original sound.

And he cannot be stressed enough how big of a deal this is. Like he is like as big as Dr. Dre is, right? Like when you think of like, oh, like everybody knows Dr. Dre. Everybody knows Phil Spector. Right. Across continents, they know Phil Spector. Everybody knows Phil Specter, right? He is after the hits that he's crafted already, just he's, he's world.

He's worldwide. Mr. Worldwide. He's pitful himself. Right, right. Yes, he's the first Mr. Worldwide. He is also, as I said, only about like 5 foot three or whatever. And he wears heels. He starts wearing heels all the time because he doesn't want people to know how short he is.

He starts losing his hair, which we'll talk about a little bit. And so he starts wearing wigs and starts like on, this is the beginning of all this. At this exact. He's like 21 and he's like losing his hair at a crazy rate. He's like, all right, real insecure about it really has a lot of self-worth image issues. You know, he really just does not, like, he's doing all this because of that. He's trying to go bigger and bigger and bigger because he looks at himself as being just like the worst because, you know, mom issues and all that. Yeah.

Right. By the mid-1960s, Phil Spector had achieved something few producers had ever managed. He had transformed himself from songwriter into brand, from collaborator into architect. The Wall of Sound was no longer experimental. it was defining popular music. But as his professional authority grew, so did his emotional instability. He got married to a woman named Annette Morar, right?

And it is such a small blip. I should have started with that, but it's such a small blip. He marries her and immediately just starts ignoring her, has no interest. He loves her. He does what we now call love bomb. Yeah.

He loves the shit out of her, but then once they get married, because this is like a very short courtship. Once they get married, he's like not interested anymore. So that gives me major ick. Sorry, go ahead. That gives me major ick is all I'm saying. Yeah.

Well, calm down on hate and on people for bad relationship. As we have, we'll like. Well, I'm hardly one to talk. Yeah. I'm doing the best I can. Look, I figured out the problem. It's me. It's me.

Yeah, I'm in the same place. I've locked down. I figured out the problem. The call was coming from inside the house the whole time. 100%. We figured out the problem, but the real, you know, we got a... He's saying you got 99 problems, but you're the bitch and it's you. I've got 99 problems and I am all of them.

And I have been nefariously behind every single one of them. Just, ha, ha, ha, this will never come back to me. Yeah. All my problems are either me or the government, which is why I really focus on, the government. It's true. All right. So his paranoia is escalating.

His reliance on intimidation is becoming really normalized, right? Wait, that's actually kind of interesting. So he love bombs this person. He's obsessed with her and then they get married, but then he no longer wants to, like, control or stalk her? No, he literally, so... That's a new behavior. He basically, it's that classic.

Like as soon as he gets it, he's not interested anymore. Or as soon as he gets it, it pivots. Like, the whole thing changes, right? But he doesn't want to control her anymore. Not really. It's more of like, it's more of like he, I mean, he is still controlling, right? But he just doesn't care at all, you know? Like most of the time, he's more interested in his career, in his work, in what's going on in the studio.

He builds a studio underneath his house so that he can just like be down there whenever he He's like, anytime he's annoyed or like whatever, he just goes downstairs. So he has the ultimate, like, a skate plan. Yeah. I'm sure if he were to catcher cheating on him, he'd be pissed, but he's hardly paying enough attention to know. Got it. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's very much, at this point, he's very much interested in Phil. Phil is what's driving him, right? Yeah. So what he's looking for this whole time, he keeps talking about, this is a constant reference. He's looking for the voice. He's looking for the voice that perfectly complements his wall of sound.

His musical compositions, like being all these big Fognarian opuses and everything, he wants a person to be that thing, to be that front and center for all of this to make it worth what he's doing. He doesn't feel like he's found that with any of his previous stuff. So in walks Ronnie Bennett. Ronnie Bennett. Let's talk about Ronnie Bennett will eventually become his wife, spoil. alert. I don't know how much I wrote, so now I just

got to, I wrote a lot. I wrote a lot. There's a lot of words in here. 41 pages you wrote, my friend. Brief, yeah, welcome to my hell. Yes. No, no, no. That's exactly what I was going to say. You know, I'm on the subredits. I'm on the YouTubes. I read

the comments because they keep me humble. Because, like, I'll be like posting something on the internet and some would be like, this guy's a fucking loser and I'm like, oh, cool, you know. I'm really glad. I got to keep it real out there But sometimes I see comments on there When people will be like, I can't believe Robert did

Fuck you Fuck every one of you who has ever made a comment like that Fuck any of you who have ever said anything bad about Sophie too I slap the shit out of you This is for the subreddit right now I'm one of you and I see the things you say And I'm disgusted by them sometimes Because I'm like God

Do you know this took me a year This took me a whole year to do this. I'm busy. I'm a busy person. But even whenever I was like, like, you know, I told you like last week, oh, I'm done with this. And I was like mostly done. But I wrote another like 3,000 words because I was like, well, there's some parts I'm missing and all this stuff. This is hard. This is hard. And you're going to miss shit. And you're going to miss shit. And I hear all your little internet comments. Like, oh, he said some weird shit or why do you,

I'm doing my best, dude. It's like, I'm improvising at the same time. Well, I'm obviously drinking a little bit. And like, you know, you guys got to cut me a break on the internet. You gotta do that. I don't know how anybody else operates, but this is how I do things. Speaking of which, purchase, Greasy Does It, recording course,

taught by me. Very responsible human being. Marketing. Great plug. Incredible work. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah.

So, yeah. So, yeah. So, Ronnie is born into a family shape. She's born in Spanish Harlem, New York City, August 10th, 1943, four years after Phil was born just down the street, basically. They probably lived almost in the same area at this time, essentially. All right, so her father, Lewis Bennett, was an Irish American,

and her mother was African-American Cherokee. Her father was also a drummer and a drunk, something that can still be found together in massive quantities around the world. You can have a drummer and drinking anywhere you go. It's true. You can find it as prevalent as Coca-Cola, man. It's there. So he's also a failure, right?

He can't keep a job. He can't do anything. He's just a mess most of the time. So she grows up not really down with alcohol, right? This is important for later, but she starts her life. Understandable. Being traumatized by a little bit by alcohol. She always loves her dad, but she definitely feels like, you know, this is an alcohol thing.

Yeah. She loves singing. She's really big on like Frankie Lyman. She loves Frankie Lyman. She thinks he's the best ever. Dina Washington. Just voices that were raw and like real, real authentic feeling, right? And she also gravitated towards performance.

She was always like, you know, like the classic front woman thing. You know, it's like when she was a little kid, she was always singing into microphones. You know, it's like that story, right? Her father being a drummer and a failed drummer did not discourage her mother because her father left pretty early. But it didn't discourage her mother from encouraging Ronnie's musical talent. She didn't just like all of a sudden, I mean, if it was me, like, dude, I had ex-girlfriends that were like, my ex-boyfriend was a drummer and he failed at music so you can't possibly make money off of music.

And I'm like, you know, maybe you're wrong. I don't know. To be fair, I didn't make a lot of money off of it. So whatever. So yeah, so her mom supports her. Her dad's always waxing poetic about his days as a musician. So she grows up as that being like a really important thing. Right.

She was always singing at school events, neighborhood functions. She got a style, right? That's something that happens when you do a lot of music is eventually at first you're just learning. You're just trying to replicate other people's things. But eventually, once you do it enough, you develop style, right? And for her, she developed a very unique style. It was very raw. It wasn't musically perfect, but it had just a tone that was just beautiful.

Everybody recognized it. Right. So her oldest sister Estelle and her cousin Nedra formed a vocal group called the Darling Sisters. The trio practice constantly singing in school hallways, street corners in their apartments. That's like a thing that still happens in this time period. People like out do whopping on the corner and everything. Just singing in public. Bro, if you saw that shit, now you'd be like, oh my God, fucking influencers are the shittiest.

Yeah, I was about to say, unfortunately, I would assume it's some, like, incredibly irritating, like, TikTok thing or whatever, some fucking viral. bullshit or something. Some dumb. I don't want to be a part of your fucking videos, weirdo. You know? Yeah, I'd be a huge asshole about it.

I would absolutely. I mean, you guys suck anyways. I don't even want to listen to this. Fuck you from making music and public. I'll tell you. So the group was eventually renamed the Ronnets, a name that captured their identity.

And Ronnie's emerging role as a front woman. You know, Ronnie and the Ronnettes. It's very, sure, normal name. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You know. But, you know, Ronnie's lead vocals really do become the defining characteristic of this whole thing.

Their early performances were energetic, glamorous, and slightly rebellious. Ronnie developed distinctive stage presence that blended confidence with vulnerability. She wore dramatic eye makeup, teased her hair into towering beehives, and moved with a swagger that contrasted with her petite frame. She was creating an image that felt simultaneously innocent and dangerous, an aesthetic that would later become iconic in 1960s pop colder. Sophie, if you would, please show Phil and the lovely ladies of the Ronnettes. Yeah, beautiful.

They didn't invent that beehive hairdo, but they're the reason it became popular, right? It was like their adoption of it was the thing that made that you, I mean, that was iconic. My grandmother had one of those when I was a kid still, and it was like the 80s. It stayed on for 20-some years, how popular. popular to that one. So it's like their cultural relevance just cannot be understated in any way. They were incredibly important to the look of the early 60s. So breaking into the professional music industry proved difficult for them. The run is performed at clubs and talent contests, dance venues all throughout New York City, struggling to secure recording contracts or industry

attention. Their persistence reflected both ambition and necessity because music was important to Ronnie. Like she, it was Get Richard Dye trying on this. You know, she was 50 cent and hard right now. Eventually, the group secured opportunities to perform at venues that exposed them to evolving pop and rhythm and blues scene of the 1960s, New York.

They performed at the peppermint lounge and other popular clubs, and again, Ronnie driving the way. Yeah, it's, they were starting to get, sorry, go ahead. Just because this is an inspector, and I know what's coming is like, based on just how he treats artists,

It's like the replaceability of them treating them just like another tool. And hearing a story like this that really drives home just like, no, to get anywhere close to people hearing you on the radio, you have to have been relentless about making this your life. Like absolutely unhinged in your dedication to this career. Especially at this time, right? And it's a really good point. Like it cannot, the dedication cannot be understated. It's like at this point, in order to get a record made, right, that cost a lot of money. You know, like.

for the time, you know, it'd be like $100 or $200 or something like that to record a song at the studio. Like $200 is like a whole month's paycheck for people in the 60s. It's a crazy amount of money. Yes, it's a lot of money for a lot of people. So, and it's still kind of that way today. In fact, if you're interested in working with Greasy Will, you can find them at the Grease Factory at Greasy Wheel. Sorry. Anyway, so, you know, it's very expensive.

So even to just get something recorded is expensive. Then you have to get it to a DJ. You have to get it on the radio because the only way you will ever sell anything is if it's on the radio. So you've got to get it on the radio. And then it has to build local support. And then it has to build regional support. And then it has to build, you know, it's like sometimes this is like a years-long process to get music to be heard. But she's hustling.

She's like relentless in trying to get her stuff out there. Absolutely. Absolutely. She strongly believed that the right producer would eventually understand how to capture her voice authentically, and she continued performing relentlessly, touring, rehearsing, and refining her stage present. She saw her career not as a sudden break waiting to happen, but something that she would build through persistence and emotional honesty. So, yes, that's exactly it. She worked.

She put in the work from the time she was like 14 years old, just grind it all the time. Yeah, I'd say it's the only way to do it, but it's the only, it's not. But it's the only way to do it if, like, you're not somebody who's coming from somewhere, you know? Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, there's a lot of NEPA babies in the music industry right now. Sure. We don't have to pretend. So they're rising through New York. It's 1963. And she's looking for this producer. And coincidentally, a producer is looking for his voice, his muse, his wall of sound, his girl who will be that for him. And they meet. they literally is very funny

they literally just they just call you know it's like it's like 1963 you just look up in the telephone you want to produce my album yeah it's like when I think about the old days of how things were done it's like what you just called somebody

I won't even answer a phone call from a number I don't know right now you just pick up the phone and yeah get a fucking music deal based on that Yeah. Assuming your call timed and well with when he'd just done a line, yeah, you might be able to fucking make some shit happen. Absolutely. So, yeah.

So I was like, all right. So they just call him. They just call him. They call him. And he's like, oh, yeah, I've heard of you guys because they're making a noise in New York, right? And Phil it this time, too. There's a lot of geographical confusion with a lot of the stuff that he is bouncing back and forth between California and New York all the time. Like, it's like he loves working in Gold Star, so he goes out to California to work at Gold Star, the studio.

But he doesn't, like the New York scene is still the scene, right? So he's got to like go to New York and then he flies back and then he'll work there for a while. So a lot of times it might seem like he is just like transporting across the country in the story, but he really is. So he heard Phil in Ronnie, he heard the voice that he had been waiting for. the emotional landscape that he had spent years' construction would fit perfectly with her, right? The professional relationship, though, immediately blurs into personal fixation.

He starts spending, you know, extraordinary amounts of time rehearsing Ronnie. He's always rehearsing Ronnie. Like, it's like, Ronnie, stay after. We got to do this. Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie. It's like always Ronnie. And of course, she is the front woman.

I'm not saying, you know, that's not important or whatever. But it's like, very obvious, right, that he is, that he is pushing to have her. Isolate her as a great. Isolation began disguised as mentorship, exactly, right? Ah, that's never happened before. Yes. You know what else hasn't happened before? Advertisements.

We're the first podcast to do that. So yeah, you're welcome. Yes, let's do it. You know, Roaldol. The writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

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What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wagageddon change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on No Grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport. In each episode, a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishap, scandals, and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.

Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene. From IHeart podcasts and Best Case Studios, this is Rorschach, murder at City Hall. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis arrives at New York City Hall with a guest. Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead.

Everybody in the chambers ducks. A shocking public murder. I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. Those are shots, get down. A charismatic politician. You know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon.

And I could shoot you. And an outsider with a secret. He alleged he was a victim of flatdown. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall, on the IHeart Radio. app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Lori Siegel, a long-time tech journalist. And consider my new podcast, mostly human, your bridge to the future. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future. And we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you. What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating these AI companion,

they're actually dating the companies that create this. We're experiencing one of the greatest tech accelerations in human history. And let's be honest, that can be messy. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. But it's my belief that we should all benefit from this moment. Mostly human will show you how. My goal is to give you the playbook, so you can benefit. The reason I say agency is because if we can give power back to people,

then I think that's probably the best thing we can do for. for your mental health. Listen to mostly human on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. And we're back. We're back into Phil Specter. Actually, I don't know if I like that. Hated it.

Sophie's face. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So it's easy to portray Ronnie as a victim and only as a victim, right? But it kind of, it denies the fact that Phil Spector is Phil Specter at this time. He is a legendary person in the media. music industry. And she fell into love with him as well. It was not one-sided. It was not just

Phil love bombing her, but it was, in fact, quote, I already knew I liked him that first day, and I knew he liked me too. It really was love at first sight on both our parts, even though I hardly said three words the whole night. I didn't have to say anything else. We communicated in other ways. Every time Phil put that song back on, I was wondering, I wondered if he wasn't trying to tell me something, because it sure did speak to me. I couldn't stop thinking that today I really met the boy I was going to marry. And that's from Ronnie's book, Be My Baby. Yes, from Ronnie's book Be My Baby.

I know where this goes, so I'm so bummed about this. He showers her with gifts, attention, grand declarations, and devotion. Like, he is just, he's on it, right? Yeah. However, remember I said that Phil has his studio in his house, right? Yes. And he is still married. Oh, cool.

And his wife lives upstairs. Cool. So, again, this is also from Ronnie's book. She goes to visit him and she says, quote, I'd never been in a penthouse before, Phil or anyone else. So naturally, when I walked in, I couldn't resist peeking into all the closets and poking around behind all the closed doors.

I opened one door and was surprised to find a bedroom where six or seven pairs of women's shoes were scattered all over the floor. I asked Phil who they belonged to and he nearly turned pink. Will you stop snooping around where you don't belong? He snapped. I think it was the first time I had. ever saw Phil lose his temper. Okay, honey, I said, I'm sorry.

He must have noticed the hurt look in my eyes because he softened his tone immediately. Those are my sister Shirley's shoes, he explained. She stays here sometimes when she's in New York. Liar, liar, pants on fire. Your sister Shirley, yeah. Bro, getting mad was the distraction to come up with the excuse, right?

He was like, what are you looking around for? Oh, yeah, sister shoes. Those are my sister shoes. If I'd have thought of that before, I wouldn't have gotten mad first. Have I thought of sister's shoes immediately, I wouldn't have got mad. Come on. So, you know, he's abrupt, defensive, you know, aggressive.

This is a pattern that would kind of define the relationship, you know. Curiosity would be met with intimidation or reality would be replaced with Phil's version of truth. Right, sure. He's gaslighting. She accepts that. Gaslighting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She accepts that as the truth, right?

And just doesn't even question it. Um, she does say that she recognized that Phil, Phil was, had some issues, right? She was like, he's got some, like, confidence issues. And this is another quote that I think is. Confidence issues, okay? So important. So, so, so important.

Listen to this. All right. So this is from her book, Be My Baby. Okay. Quote, Phil first started losing his hair around the time we met. In fact, there's a picture that was taken when he signed us in March, 1963, which also was the first day I ever saw him wearing a toupee. It was so obvious if you knew him,

but he still went to great lengths to hide the fact that he wore wigs, even when we slept together. After we'd do our foreplay, he'd get up from bed and make sure the lights were all out. That way, I couldn't watch him when he took his hair off. Then he'd stumble into the bathroom in the dark so he could rub this acetone solvent all over his head. It was the smelliest stuff in the world,

but I guess it was the only thing he could get the tongue, the toupee glue off his scalp. Oh, man. He's like 21, and he's like lost all his hair. already. And he is incredibly insecure. He's reacting the worst way possible. The worst way possible.

Like gluing it to it. Ooh. Sir. Yes. And everybody knows. Everybody around him knows. But like he's so powerful you don't say anything. Sure.

Sure. You know? And so it's just like everybody's just kind of accepting that this is a thing that has happened and nobody says anything. And they just let him go on with his little delusion about not being bald. You know, I'm not really bald. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Of course, Phil. Absolutely. I always wonder with guys like that, do you know that everyone knows? Is this like a power thing? Are you truly diluted? I'm so excited that you brought this up and I can't wait for down the road when we discuss Phil and his hair because we have to at some point in time really get into Phil's psyche about his hair. And spoiler alert.

It's a big deal for him. It's a big deal. He just flat out does never, never acknowledges that he wears wings. It's amazing. Right. So, and that's going to get even funnier in a couple paragraphs here. All right. So, Phil brings Ronnie to California under the promise of expanding her career opportunities away from her family. She's now crossed the country, New York to California away, you know? During this whole time, Ronnie claims to have not known that Phil was married.

She didn't find out until they had been sleeping together for several months when a fellow musician finally broke the news to her. She had been in love with Phil and ignored all the warnings, but now it was clear. It didn't change her love. She still loved him, and he still loved her. And he loved bombs her with the house, and they move in together. Wow. Yeah, so she's literally just in, like, the bathroom one day, and somebody's like, oh, yeah, because, you know, because his wife. And she's like, wait, what?

She's like, yeah, he's married. You didn't know he's married? He's married. What are you talking about? So she's just like, she's hurt, but she's like, oh, you know, I mean, he comes and tells her, of course, you know, naturally. Oh, it's not, we're done. We're getting divorced. We don't love each other.

It's all thing, right? So Phil lied to Ronnie's mother about the nature of their relationship too and tells her that they're married already because she's like, you guys can't be living together and shit and he's like, no, we're already married, it's fine. And she's like, I don't believe you. That sucks so bad. Seems like an obvious lie.

Yeah, yeah, I don't believe you, but I do need to like, you know, figure this all out, right? How old is Ronnie at this time? Ronnie is like 19 years old, like 20, 19, 20, and Phil is like 22, 23 years old. Okay. He was born in 39, so 24, he's 24. Okay.

He would have these wild swings between like heavy love and then targeted insults. One night after a show, he flew into a rage after a cameraman compliments her, and he loses his mind. Quote from Ronnie's book, quote, this was a big thing with Phil. If I lost control in front of a crowd,

he hated it because that meant I was out of his control. And on top of everything else you came in off key, he could only ever criticize my singing for technical reasons because he knew I didn't read music. So I couldn't argue. Don't bother coming to the party after the show, he ordered. I don't want to see you there. I went straight back to my hotel room and cried.

I suppose I could have gone to the party anyways, but I never considered it. I just couldn't go against Phil's wishes in those days. Phil couldn't control what I did once I got out on stage, but that wasn't a problem he had in our personal life. So he is already. It's pretty early. They're not married.

This is very early and he's already taking control. The Beatles asked them to go on tour with the Ronnettes and still told Ronnie not to do it. What? Yeah, why would you want to go on tour with the Beatles?

That's not like those guys. He's very, very... That band's not going anywhere. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Fuck those guys. Those random blokes from Liverpool or whatever?

Yeah. No future. So, all right, so following the incident where he was urinated on, Specter developed an intense obsession with personal protection. This is classic fill, right? He began collecting firearms, frequently carrying them during studio sessions and public appearances. Over time, his guns become more than defensive tools. They become theatrical symbols of authority and intimidation.

Naturally, right? Like, this guy doesn't just, he loves. guns, right? He likes to scare people with guns a lot. Yes, and he loves a snub nose. He loves a 38, dude. He just like, that's a pocket gun like crazy. It's really easy to just whip it out and wave it in people's faces, you know? That's the perfect. Yeah. It's the perfect. And also, you can hit him with you. It's very heavy. It's got to, you know, I mean, that's a good hit him with it. That's a good pistol whipping gun for sure. Right. Yeah. When you jam it into someone's body, the slide doesn't, you know, get out of battery or whatever. Like, you know, you know, you can hit him with it. You know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you can hit him. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can't. You can. You can. You can really just poke people with a 38 very easily. And, yes, and let's be real honest, too. When it comes to a 38, like, it's not like a long-distance weapon. It's not an aim and gun. It's not an aim and gun.

Not at all, all, all right? He also developed a fascination with martial arts, particularly karate. All right. Now, again, this is 1960s America. We're about to see Elvis get into the same thing. Yeah, he sure was. This isn't, like, out of control. Lots of actors are like.

Like, okay, but, all right, but Phil's particularly fun. So he's watching television right now, and he sees a guy named Santio Sol break a brick with his hand. And he's it, that's it. He's sold, bro. That's all he needed to see. Yeah. So he starts taking lessons from this guy. He finds this guy and starts taking lessons from him, right? And he just, like, goes crazy.

It's like every day. And he starts, he starts walking around town in a karate glee. Just like, yeah. You know, like... Like, he's inventing being a weeb. That's amazing. Yes. Yes.

And, all right, and again, and again, he doesn't have real hair. So he's wearing a wig, right? He's wearing an obvious wig and a karate outfit walking around down. Oh, my God. But you can't make fun of him because you know he's also going to pull that 38 on you if you do. Yes. And probably armed with a gun. So, like, all of the things, right?

All right. So, um, he... This also gives him access to actually... actual karate practitioners because he's taking lessons from these guys. Sure. So then he hires them. He hires Santee to be his bodyguard because he's like, well, now I got this tough guy, right? He knows karate.

Good enough for me. And so these guys also, I just want to point out, like, I don't know this to be fact, but I just can't stop thinking about this. Because another bodyguard who's a karate guy, he talks about this a little bit. But, you know, you know that they're getting paid a lot of money to be around this guy. They're making a lot of money off of this guy, right? So you know they're like, yeah, bro, you're killed me with them karate shots, man. Oh, Phil, we really, you've got the most powerful.

You're so dangerous. Yeah, just a little push, knock me right over, Phil. Wow. Oh, my God. Well, it's also, especially in this period of time, just lying about your martial arts qualifications. Oh, yes, absolutely. We spent 10 years in China learning kung fu from monks. Who's going to check up on that shit?

You learn, like, 10 words in your world. and you're good, you know? Yeah. You could lie about anything back in the day, man. It was so easy. Even when I was like in high school, you could still lie about things. Like, what am I going to do? Go to the library and prove you wrong?

All of the top-billed Native American actors in Hollywood were Italian men. Italian guys. It was very easy to lie. It was so easy. All right. So, um, so Santi bodyguards for him. And then he's like, Brian got time for this anymore. I'm actually getting a legitimate business.

Like, so he passes it off to this other guy. Emil Farkas. And Emil felt that Specter was using his bodyguards as status symbol, but also as a threat to anyone who might get froggy. So he's like, you know, walking around, I got these guys, you know, like, what are you going to do kind of shit? Very Jack Do you know Jack Doherty? Yeah, yeah, the millennia, the young kid, the Xenials or whatever, will know who the

fuck that is. Anyway, he's, he's, you know, he's doing that. He's going up to clubs on Sunset Strip, getting in front of everybody. And then when somebody dares to question him, he says, fuck you. and they're like, okay, well, let's fight. And then from out of behind him comes some actual karate guys, you know, plus also too, actual karate guys in the 60s must have beat the shit out of everybody, dude.

Like, they're still in like the world of like wild haymakers and stuff. Everyone else is doing like the Captain Kirk 200 punch. You actually know how to hit somebody. Yeah. You're fucking annihilated them. Doing this thing, you know, and you're like, what? Get my dukes up. Come on now.

Yeah. Jack Johnson and Tom O'Leary right here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, like actual karate guys, I think about this all the time. Like, they must have just mop the flow. It's not like now, you might actually run into like a UFC guy, like, or like an MMA guy right now.

There's guys who actually do that now just walking here out. But these are just karate guys walking around. Anyway. So, so, yeah. So he basically is just antagonizing people in purposefully to cause problems and then has his bodyguards beat the shit out of him. Which is super fucked up. So, Emil, though, he says, this is from Breaking the Wallace Sound. Quote, Spector had never quite got the hang of karate.

He might have worn a black belt tied around his ghee, and he might have boasted to journalists that, in case of real trouble, I could totally kill a guy. But according to Emil Farkas, he just play-acted. He'd do a lot of chopping his hands in the air, but he was nowhere near a black belt. He's like, a lot of chopping his hands in the air. If the thing someone's going for as a chop, you can kind of guess the rest.

He's like, I know you could really hurt people that way, but generally, boom. He's hitting him with the ha-ya. Yeah. Wow. You know? I mean, it's hilarious to picture, like, in your brain, right? I just always have to remind myself because he's a giant in the world, but he is a five-foot-three man.

He's a tiny little dude out here karate chopping. Incredible. We're in a karate game. He's a five-foot-free man who believes he's a martial artist. Like, God. But what he was good at was playing pool. Apparently, he was pretty good at playing pool. And so he hired this pro player, Willie Moscone, and paid him $175,000 a year to hang out as his house and teach him how to play pool.

Okay. That's cool. That's kind of cool. Yeah. And then, hold on. Hold on. then he would go to pool halls and hustle people with him and then when people got mad

he'd have his bodyguards beat the shit out of him he's really he was really scraping all of the fun you can have when you're rich enough for bodyguards I just have a posse of dangerous men that have to beat people up if I'm if I'm a dick I am surprised more rich guys don't do this to be honest I honestly

I'm gonna be honest man if I ever get that kind of money, like walking around with bodyguards money? Oh, that's all I'm going to do. Yeah, yeah, of course. That's all I'm going to do. So he would throw crazy parties and then disappear. He's a weird dude right now. He's like, he'd throw these crazy parties and they disappear the whole night and then reappear

right as people are about to leave and he would get super mad if the girls wanted to go home. Super mad. Yeah, I'm not surprised. He has got real. He hates to be alone, first of all, and he establishes this. But he also just has, like, specifically when women want to leave, he gets upset every single time. Not cool with him, yeah. Phil would, this is from Emil Farkas, again, from breaking down the Wallace down.

Phil would get very upset with women walked out on him, Farkas says. He would rant and rave. You'll never work again. I'll get you fired, whatever. But then again, you'd have this thing at parties where you might have 20 girls each. And each one would try to last out the other to see who was going to stay the night with him. But the feeling I got was that Phil sort of realized that most of these people were around for the external, rather the internal. And he would have preferred that he wasn't liked for the limousines and the money and all that.

He would have really liked to be loved for himself. And there were girls who liked him for that. I think the problem was that Phil could never believe that these people could love him for who he was. I'm not surprised he had trouble believing people could love him for who he was because he's a dick. I mean it's sad But I'm also Yeah Yeah it is very strong like

Like yeah dude Of course nobody Like stifler right It's like stifler like yeah Of course no one likes you bro You giant prick to everyone man Like yeah You're not liked

Right You know who won't get mad When you try and Leave their parties in the middle of the night These these sponsors People who pay money I'm gonna say me because my parties don't go that late.

But the party of capitalism, that one keeps on going forever. Yeah. You know Roaldol, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories?

It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans.

What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman.

And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Why hasn't a woman formerly participated in a Formula One race weekend in over a decade?

Think about how many skills they have to develop at such a young age. What can we learn from all of the new F1 romance novels suddenly popping up every year? He still smelled of podium champagne and expensive friction. And how did a 2023 event called Wag Ageddon change the paddock forever? That day is just seared into my memory. I'm culture writer and F1 expert Lily Herman, and these are just a few of the questions I'm tackling on no grip, a Formula One culture podcast that dives into the under-explored pockets of the sport.

In each episode, a different guest and I will go deeper into the wacky mishaps, scandals and sagas, both on the track and far away from it, that have made F-1 a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to no grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast, flagrant and funny. You look at the top four number one seeds. What do you think UCLA is going to do?

Break down that for me, my friend. Obviously, Yukon is the overwhelming favorite in this tournament. But I'll be honest, I think people are kind of. I'm the sleeping on Texas. Experts are suggesting that UCLA is the number one challenger to Yukon and that right after that would be Texas. S&C is so deep and so thick and just about everything. It really is annoying.

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A silver 40 caliber handgun was recovered at the scene. From IHart Podcasts and Best Case Studios. This is Rorschach, murder at City Hall. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. Jeffrey Hood did it. July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis. arrives at New York City Hall with a guest.

Both men are carrying concealed weapons. And in less than 30 minutes, both of them will be dead. Everybody in the chambers ducks. A shocking public murder. I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. Those are shots. Get down. A charismatic politician.

You know, he just bent the rules all the time. I still have a weapon. And I could shoot you. and an outsider with a secret. He alleged he was a victim of flatdown. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Roershack, murder at City Hall on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. Okay. Will, take it away. Yes, so it's 1964. The Runettes toured England with the Beatles. They do actually go to the Beatles to tour with the Beatles

and Phil insists on being there. He is super jealous. He does not like it. You got to keep in mind too. The Beatles are the next evolutionary step in this chain. We went to now producers and bands are gone and Phil Spector represented the most important version of that. But it's 1964 and the Beatles are about the crossover in America

and Phil Specter is incredibly threatened by them. They have been tearing up the charts and kind of pushing him out very much so. So when the Ronnets are asked to go on tour with the Beatles, he's like, and so he goes to England to supervise. You know, he has to go over and watch and make sure no one's putting the moves on the own girl, you know? He said, from Ronnie, this is from Be My Baby, Ronnie's book. Phil never came out and said it, but I could tell he didn't like the idea of spending too much time with the Beatles. I don't think his ego could stand the competition.

The Beatles were leaving to start their first U.S. tour in a few days, and when John asked me if we wanted to fly back with them on their chartered jet, I didn't have the nerve to ask Phil if it was okay, so I may add my mom make the suggestion. You know Phil, she told him. It might be good publicity if the girls went back on the jet with the Beatles. No, he told her, I've already bought their tickets, and that was all that said. So he tells them, no, man, I got tickets for you already.

you can't fly back on the plane with the Beatles. Are you crazy? I'm just going to let my girlfriend get on a fucking plane, a private plane with a bunch of rock stars. Hell no, that's a horrible idea. Yeah. Hell no. So he buys them private or commercial flights back, right?

She says, she continues, my mother and they landed the next day at JFK and she says, my mother and I watched the whole thing on TV. We were amazed at how many kids showed up at the airport screaming and carrying banners. But what surprised me even, more was something that happened after the plane landed. The jet was on the ground and the

camera zoomed in on the door that was about to open up to give America its first glimpse of the Fab Four. But when that hatch finally did swing open, who do you think was with them? I almost fade in when I looked at the TV and saw Phil Specter following the Beatles. So he's

like, you can't fly back with the Beatles and then he flies back with the Beatles. I want to fly back with the Beatles. Absolutely. Yeah. So like there's like thousands of people greeting him at the airport and like, and there's Phil Specter, and they're like, that dick. Amazing.

Amazing. Amazing pettiness. Amazing. That is Tom Petty right there, dude. That's amazing. Yeah, that's like a grand level of dickery. Like, it's spectacular. You can't ride with the hottest band that's going on in the world right now,

but I can. And you have to take a shitty commercial. I'm definitely going to be there. Yeah. So funny. So Ronnie's life keeps like it's more and more confined She's starting to get like kind of more trapped by Phil and everything And Phil starts working repeatedly at this studio Gold Star

I mentioned it before it was like the scene of his wall of sound And it's really important like it is kind of like a big deal It's it's hate Ashbury for the hippie movement or Or you know or or Woodstock or it's an important moment in time Where a bunch of people come together for a thing that is like significant. And Gold Star is there. Gold Star is where the wrecking crew kind of was born. It's where Phil was

doing all these hits. And it's a shithole for the record. But Phil loves it. He turns it into his fortress, right? He just like, no one's allowed to come in unless he says so. He's booking so much time there. Like, he lives in this studio. And at this studio, he is working

with Sonny Bono and Cher. Sonny Bono. Side bastard. Side bastard Sonny Bono We're gonna sidebastard Sonny Bono Sonny Bono is a big

giant dick and we First of all Bro he is like the most First of all First of all I mean the copyright protections act that he did

just so Disney could keep Mickey Mouse and fucking in their in their That sucks right But also How do you go from being Sunny and Cher

Like this whole Like they sang on On Mamas and Papa songs And stuff Yeah. Yeah, they were, how do you do that and then become a Republican senator? You know, like, that's like the ultimate betrayal of a human being.

Sony Bono ended as a, yeah, Republican senator. He wasn't nice to share. A Republican sellout senator. Fucker. Yeah, amazing. He was the one. And also the subject of one of my favorite M&M lines, Sonny Bono, skis, horses, and hitting some trees. Oh!

I love that. Great. So, um, so Ronnie develops a close relationship with Cher, who, became one of the few people that Ronnie could confide him because she was also living very similar situation at this time. Sonny and Cher is about as famous as Ike and Tina about as famous as Ronnie and Phil. Ironic that they would all work together with Phil. Very strange.

And it's really interesting too because in all of these situations, it shows that the men in these situations who are very dominant to their women also are all subserving to Phil. Sonny Bono bends over for Phil Like completely like he is He is absolutely Interesting he is he lets I mean he I mean Phil is the god at the time

Sunny Bono is nobody He's a gopher he's a runner at a studio And Phil treats him like a runner at the studio He is horrible to him He treats him awfully Side note this is a really funny story When Ronnie first met Cher She thought she was a hooker

She like She got Cher was a hooker? Yeah, she got Cher was a hooker. She was like, oh, this must be Sunny Bono's hooker. Oh my God. She just says that, which is really funny. There's a lot of things in these like interviews and books and stuff that I've read. Like I love Phil Specter, so I've read many books on him.

I watch every documentary. I love Phil Specter and I'm so interested by him. So when I watch and read all these things, it's insane to see, like, how open and honest people are about the horrible things that they think and say out loud. It's so crazy. Why did you write this in a book? You wrote that you thought Cher was a hooker? How did you tell anyone that? Didn't need to say that?

That was totally free to shut the fuck up. It cost no money. No one was going to be like, hey, man. Do you ever think Share was a hooker? Right. Like, you just, yeah, okay. Incredible. So funny.

So anyway, so they got a complicated relationship, Sunny and Phil. And it blossoms into this very, like, subservient relationship where Sunny just does everything that Phil asks. He, like, whatever Phil tells him, like, hey, don't let the girls do this. He's like, okay. And he becomes like an enforcer for Cher and Ronnie Bennett's relationship in a lot of ways. And it's very, again, he's like getting other people to carry out his, like, possessive, weird details of his life. and stuff. It's very strange.

Give us me the ick. All right. So Phil has had a killer career, right? He's had a killer career. Things have been going good for him. The Beatles come to America. Things start to change. He still has some hits. Things are going

good or whatever, but we're about to hit 1966. And in 1966, he produced River Deep Mountain High for Tina Turner. Yes. And he, he, to him, he says this was the greatest thing he ever did. It was the ultimate realization

of the wall of sound. It was, if you listen to this song, it is such a phenomenal song. It's phenomenal. It's a cacophony of sound. It is a, it is, I mean, it's like, you cannot tell, other than Tina's voice, you cannot tell a single thing that is happening in the background. You can kind of hear like a guitar riff in the beginning of, but that could be anything, right? It's like the whole sound is so amorphous. It has no shape. It has no body. it's so drenched in reverb and it's just noise behind what's going on. It's so brilliant and so beautiful. It does rip and it's very reminiscent of like modern day like shoegaze type stuff is like this.

You know, it's got a really cool atmosphere. It's all atmosphere and emotion. Yeah. Even notoriously shitty sidebastard. Sidebaster. Notoriously shitty side bastard, Ike Turner, bowed. It is a music industry episode. We're going to have a lot of side bastards.

I just really like the sidebaster sound effect. I recorded that myself as well, by the way. Yeah, I think I should make it into the regular rotation. I do. I have a soundboard. I need it. There we go. It's so good.

It's so good. Yeah, so notoriously shitty side bastard, Ike Turner. Revereered Phil, let him be in control. You're talking about a band, Ike and the Ikeettes, right? Featuring Tina Turner. Like, we're talking, Ike is the control freak of control freaks. But why are they submissive to this weird little guy?

Sophie, in the beginning, we asked, we asked this question. Yeah. Why do we allow people to be horrible and shitty? And just because they can make a really cool, it's the same, it's the same world. Why do those people allow this other person who's also shitty to get away with being in control of them? Because the music industry, because you can write a good song, you can get away with murder, sort of.

Not completely. Spoiler alert. I mean, like, do people, like, his wigs are so bad. Yeah, that's my point. He's visibly wearing wigs. Nobody is confused about this. And he is wearing platform shoes. He has 5'3, he's wearing platform shoes that barely make him 5'5, which is still really, really short.

Yeah. You know? No offense. Short case. No, no. No. There's nothing wrong with it, but it clearly is fucking with him. I mean, this is what pops up when I searched Phil Specter in 1966.

Okay. I mean, let's see him. Look at the hair. Wow. Oh, no, the glasses, the sideways diamond glasses. So are amazing. This is a little early for this. Those glasses are honestly whip.

But I want to share this picture real quick because this is also very important. Robert, oh god, I have been waiting to show you this picture. I can't wait. This is so good. All right. So, this is Phil Spector in 1966. Around the same time, around the same time. Yeah.

This is him with his security guard, George Brandt. Oh, my God. So they're sitting in some sort of old-timey van, and George Brandt, like, Phil is in George Brant's lap. He looks like a child. He looks like a child. Because Phil's holding a gun and pointing it out. the window and he's got like a fucking

like a what's that kind of what's it looks like a Labrador or like a like a dog like what a poodle like a poodle hair situation going on in his head like a yeah it's a fuzzy winter hat he's pointing a gun and his bodyguard has his arm around Phil and is like holding him in place

and his hand is like as big as both of Phil's hands put together like one hand like you this contrast between the two is jarring. It's the like the flappy ear hats. It's incredible. Yeah.

As a lover of hats myself. It is so incredible. I cannot believe that he took that picture and was like, yeah. Print that shit. Crazy. It's so funny. He's a tiny person. That really gives you like a perspective.

He looks like a child. He looks like a child. He looks very silly posing with a gun. George Brand. This is George Brandon. George Branden is a kind of big. He's like 6-1 or something like that. But he's not,

that's not huge. That's me. I'm 6 foot. You know, he's like my size. But he looks like a giant compared to him. He looks like he's holding his child. And he has Ike Turner and Sunny

bowing to him in submission. That's crazy. Yes. Yeah. That's crazy. But that's the power of a hitmaker. Yeah. It's the power of a hitmaker.

It's like kind of culty. That's what being somebody who's controlling the industry. and that kind of power is. But as I said, this, well, I didn't say it, but spoiler alert, it doesn't last long. Okay. He produces Riverdeep, Mountain High for Tina Turner, and he spends

enormous amount of money. This is signed to his label to the Phyllis Records, and he spends a ton of money, right? Emotional energy, just everything, time, he puts everything. This is his magnopis. This is his thing, right? He thinks he's the best.

thing he's ever done. Massive orchestration, intricate layering, one of the most powerful vocal performances ever recorded. Spector later described it as the greatest work of his career. Yeah. In the United States, it failed miserably. That's so wild. It fails horribly. Now, Spector says, Spector's belief and a lot of people's belief, I've heard a lot of opinions on this, but the belief is generally it was too white for black audiences and two black for white audiences. It was that rare moment of in between it had orchestration, but it had Tina, but it had Wallace Sound Mudd,

but it had Tina. But, you know, it's like, it's like, it was so confusing for DJs at the time because you either played race records or you played white records. And that was it. Like, it was like, where does this fall? We don't know.

Phil Spector is taking this to a logical, like, conclusion, but it just doesn't hit. Yeah. This, it did, It did have success in United Kingdom. In the UK, it did chart, but the domestic rejection just devastated him. For a man who equated control with emotional safety, the failure felt deeply personal. If he could not guarantee success through perfection, then his entire identity as a producer was suddenly unstable, right?

So this breaks him. Like, this is the breaking point. It, he takes out a full-page ad in a newspaper in America saying Benedict Arnold was right. Whoa. Yeah. Because England liked it and America didn't. Whoa. That's nuts.

That's a crazy place for your head to go. What in the fuck? Benedict Arnold was right. Yeah. Okay, bro. So after that, everybody's like, okay, well, we're not spinning this record anymore. This dude just called us all traitors. He said England should have won the war.

Yeah. Fuck that guy. That's a little much. Crazy. So Phil's fair with River Deep Mountain High calls him to pull out of music completely. He announced his retirement from music and spent the days wandering around his mansion

despondent and depressed. This is a common theme with Phil as well. He spends a lot of time wandering around his mansion depressed. Well, Dennis Hopper was actually chronicling the process of making River Deep Mountain High. He was doing like a documentary film on the process. And because he'd been around, he saw all this in how it reacted, Phil.

He offers Phil a job playing a drug dealer, an easy rider, which is an amazing, amazing film, amazing role. Yeah. They said literally, they're like, yeah, we let him be an easy rider. The story I read framed it as like, oh, yeah, you know, like, it'll pick him up, it'll make him feel better. Yeah. But then when you actually hear, like, the Dennis Hopper interview,

he's like, yeah, he had a Rolls Royce and he would let us use it if we'd put him in the movie. We couldn't afford it otherwise. It was Easy Rider. You know? Yeah. Yeah, it was made for like $25,000. So other than that, other than his time on Easy Router, he spent most of his time playing pool

and often hanging with his friend Lenny Bruce. Are you familiar with Lenny Bruce? Oh, my God. Yeah, of course. Lenny Bruce was like, I mean, Lenny Bruce was the inspired George Carlin. He's kind of the er. He's not talking about the first stand-up guy.

Yeah. But he's like the first shot comic. Some people would say the first really good stand-up comedian. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and... Big dude. Phil loves him, right?

Phil just idolizes him. He thinks he's amazing. He's Phil Spector, so he's big enough to just be like, yeah, I'll just hang in. Lenny Bruce is, by the way, in his personal life, a massive piece of shit, basically. Not a nice... And horrible drug problems.

Yeah. Yes, horrible drug problems, horrible everything problems. Lenny Bruce is a mess. And for those of you who are not familiar with Lenny Bruce, if you look it up, you're going to be a lot there's a lot of N-word Lenny Bruce

Rants is what I'm saying. Oh yeah, yeah. A lot a lot. They also try to like fictionalize romanticize him in that marvelous Mrs. Maisel show that was on Amazon. They make him a character in that and they make him like this like,

yeah, they totally. Because he's widely, and a lot of ways rightfully beloved because of his influence on like comedy from a freedom of speech standpoint, which he really did take a stand and pay for. Yes. But they also whitewash a lot of like,

He was a messy motherfucker among comedians and stand-up comedians are almost all messy sons of bitches. There's a lot of stories about him showing up at Phil's house and like, you know, Phil having to like basically kick him out and be like, and apologize to his guest.

Phil, Phil, the guy who held people at gunpoint, waved guns around, had to be like, yeah, guys, sorry, Lenny's messy. Yeah, yeah. Hey, listen, Lenny's messy guys, you know. My friend doesn't always use the right terms. He can be kind of inappropriate. All right.

So the two men bonded over a shared sense of being misunderstood. Outsiders navigating industries that simultaneously rewarded and rejected them, which is extremely valid. They're both kind of outsiders while also being like praised and glorified. Also kind of at the top of their careers or kind of at the top of their field. Yes. It's very strange. Bruce admired Specter's music. Musical intensity inspector appeared to be drawn to Bruce's defiant rejection of authority and social norms.

He quotes Lenny Bruce all the time. He'll be like, Lenny Bruce says, you know, it's like always how he goes. He loves Lenny Bruce so much that Phil keeps a blown up image of Lenny Bruce above his bed. What? Oh. What? Oh. Ronnie. Ronnie. Oh. Okay, so we're a step beyond two famous guys who like been wasted together. Okay. Yeah, it's weird. That is, that's, uh, okay. What?

I, like, when I wrote this, I literally had this, like, funny mental image of me having, me having a Robert Evans above my bed and like, you're shirtless, you know, like, just like, you know, like, you know, over the shoulder kind of look, you know? Just like, I just, I was like, yes, dude, that's how I want my relationship with Robert to be. Like quasi-sexual in nature. Of a Phil Specter of Lenny Bruce relationship? Sure. Absolutely.

Oh, my goodness. So. So Spector's get, he gets his belief that he's existing outside of conventional society. By hanging out with Lenny Bruce, it validates that for him, you know? And that society just didn't understand him. This is why River Deep Mountain High failed. It's just like Lenny Bruce, right? It's like society just doesn't get how important this is.

But then Lenny dies. But then Lenny Bruce does die, doesn't he? You don't have a long life expectancy as a Lenny Bruce type. On August 3rd, 1966, Lenny was found on the floor of his bathroom with the pants around his ankles and a needle stuck in his arm. Yeah. That's how that goes, right? He died of an overdose. He died of an overdose on the toilet, which is very Elvis and sad.

Very, I mean. Very Lenny Bruce, yeah. Very Lenny Bruce. Yeah, Lenny Bruce was the original. Lenny Bruce, the O.G. Dino in the toilet. Yeah. So, Phil was devastated to lose his friend. He's so sad about this.

And again, mobs around the house for days, you know. But a few days later, a cop shows up at his, I think it was his lawyer's house. It was either his friend or a lawyer, but cop shows up and says, hey, I got these pictures of Lenny Bruce from the crime scene, either you buy them or I'm selling them to the tabloids, right? And so Phil spent 5K of his own money, just, he purchased them, spent $5,000 of his own money, which at that time is like a house. Yeah, that's a lot of money. Yeah. You know, spends $5,000 of his own money to purchase those photos to keep them out of the press. He also paid for Lenny's funeral, and then after Lenny's funeral, he locked himself in his house for weeks on end and didn't

talk to anybody because he was so depressed at the loss of his friend. Fuck me. It's one of those real. It's weird that he is capable of deeply caring for someone and it's Lenny Bruce. Yeah. Okay. Exactly. That's what I'm saying.

It's like it's a really weird moment because you're like, oh, that's sad, but also. This is the first really human emotion we've gotten. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. But also, huh. You know.

Back to Robert. Ronnie, right? Ronnie's mom finally is like, you guys aren't really married, right? So she's like, you're not living with somebody if you're not married to them. She, like, loses her mind over the whole thing. She's like, you guys need to get married, right? So Phil, you know, he still lies to where. He tries, like, lie. But she comes out to California and she's like, nope, don't believe you.

And so she takes Ronnie and makes her move back to New York, which is, again, very crazy. This is like an era where being 21 is actually what's considered an adult at this time. I mean, it kind of still is a little bit. But in the manner of like, if you were under 21, you could actually be told what to do by your parents still. Yeah, you're not really an independent person. And also have no money and all sorts of shit.

Anyway, so she forces her to move back to New York. Ronnie hates being in New York. She hates being around her relatives. She feels like they're all like gold diggers, kind of. And she wants to get back to California. So Phil comes and rescues her and takes her back to California. But as soon as they get back, he gets right back into being jealous, you know.

And it wasn't until she threatens to leave him that he finally does commit to marrying her. Aw. They're planning to be married on April 14th, but MLK was shot and killed on April 4th. And Phil goes into a despair. It's super common Phil. Anytime somebody famous dies that he has had any association with at all,

which does happen a lot, you know, 60s and all. he falls into like these horrible depressive states where he just like mopes around. He was just playing MLK speeches on repeat in his house at like top volume, which I'm sure he had a killer stereo, right? He's just blasting MLK speeches at like top volume in his house and like crying in the living room. It's like super crazy, which brings me to a point about Phil that I think is super interesting. For all of Phil's flaws, racism is never one of them.

Not once, not ever. he is always, when we look at these relationships, it's like it is always black girl groups that he's like, you know, doing this abuse to. But black is never really like a consideration. It is women that is the consideration that like, he has an issue with women. Right.

For as awful as he is, he's never awful about race. Black people. He loves black people. In fact, Ronnie thinks that he wished he was black. Yeah. And he, he cried, cried tears when an LK day. Given, like, the industry he's in at the industry he's in. The time hit, yeah, okay, yeah, that makes sense, actually.

Yeah. So, he eventually snaps out of his depression, and they return to their wedding plans. They get married on the 14th. The marriage itself was performed at a justice of a peace ceremony. They know for a millionaire record producer, he doesn't, he half-asses the hell out of it. He does justice to the peace. As someone who's done a couple of justice to the peace marriages, you know, I get it, right? Sometimes you just want to get it over with, you know, I got stuff to do today.

Yeah, I've done one. his chauffeur's brother was his best man after the wedding they celebrated by going to a concert and then Phil sent Ronnie and her mother home with his driver and went to visit his mother out of guilt of not having told her about the wedding so he feels bad he's like oh actually I can't believe I didn't tell my mom about the wedding I should have told her about this in city I forgot to tell him I got in trouble for that too so I probably should have done him

so he goes right and Ronnie and her mom go back to the house right Ronnie goes home. She puts on some lingerie. She gets wedding night, bro. We wedding night. You know, she gets all up. And she waits and waits and waits and waits. Hours go by.

Phil does not come back. And she's like, uh, okay, well, the hell. Finally, he returns home late as hell, drunk as hell. And he's mad. He walked into our room, she says, this is from her book, Be My Baby. Quote, when he walked into our room, I could tell the last thing he was interested in was my body. Remember she's wearing lingerie and everything. He was a completely different person than the man I had sat with at the concert three hours earlier.

You bitch, he shouted. I couldn't believe how mad he looked and worse than I'd ever seen him. He was raving so loud that the veins in his neck were bulging blue. I know your game, Veronica, he shouted. You just want my money. That is it, isn't it? I was so scared that I got up and ran out of the bedroom and into the hallway. If Phil was going to kill me, I wanted him to do it where there might be witnesses.

What's wrong, Phil? What did your mother tell you? The truth, he panted, that this whole marriage is about one thing, my money. He was so mad he could barely catch his breath now. Ronnie and her mother locked themselves inside a bathroom for hours, hiding from Phil's rage and unpredictable behavior. Quote, my mother and I had been living on that pale blue carpet for over an hour when Phil finally wore himself out and went to bed.

After that, we got kind of drowsy ourselves. I was just drifting off to sleep when I heard my mother sigh. Ronnie, Ronnie, what did you marry? I moved in close to her and I started to cry. Isn't this something I sniffed? Here it is my wedding night and I'm spending it curled up on the bathroom floor with my mother. Jeez. So it is her wedding day, her wedding day, her wedding day.

He goes to a show and then he comes home drunk, drops her off, comes home drunk, screaming and threatening her. An hour. He spent an hour banging on the bathroom door threatening her screaming her. at her with her and her mom just in the bathroom, cut it up on the floor, crying. Wow.

And that extremely happy moment is where we will leave this episode. Great. That's part two, baby. Part two, done. I am greasy, Will. You can find me all over the internet. I have lots of things for sale if you ever want to buy them. And it is the same thing. You're supporting

people's, you're supporting people's livelihoods. That's right. Their dreams. Yes. My, my assistants, they're drug-free, so you know when I pay them money, it's not going to drugs. That is, that is super courteous. That's the best you can say about anybody. That's right. That's right. Whereas I take all of my profits and hand them out underneath a bridge so that people can buy drugs. You might as well pay me in heroin, you know, like just pay me in heroin. Just pay the strangers I give money to and heroin. You are Robert Evans, my good friend, and found it I write okay on the internet. And also here.

Yes, that's true. On Netflix. You might be watching this on the Netflix. Bro, this is the closest I will ever come to success. You could watch this and then watch another one of Netflix's classic hit shows, like whatever movie is out now. That one about that pervert guy that kidnaps people and keeps them in their basement. Sure. You could be watching The Pervert next. Wow. Behind the Bastards is a production of

Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit Remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, YouTube.com slash at Behind the Bastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.

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