Behind the Bastards - The Bleach Church is Spreading

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

Robert is joined by Billy Wayne Davis to discuss how the bleach church continues to spread.FOOTNOTES: “Church” claims bleach is coronavirus-curing “sacrament,” faces wrath of FDA How many letters does the president receive daily?  Coronavirus: Leader of group that believes bleach is miracle cure for Covid-19 wrote to Trump A fringe movement that claims bleach is a miracle cure is jubilant after Trump floated injecting disinfectant as a treatment for COVID-19 The Genesis II Church of Health & Healing Alan Keyes Is Helping Sell a Toxic Bleach ‘Cure’ to the Vulnerable and Desperate Fake Coronavirus Cures, Part 1: MMS is Industrial Bleach Advocates of a toxic bleach fake 'miracle cure' are telling desperate people it can cure the coronavirus in thriving groups on Telegram Revealed: leader of group peddling bleach as coronavirus 'cure' wrote to Trump this week Bleach Salesman Who Wrote Trump About "Miracle Cure" Investigated by Feds in Miami 20/20 Investigation into a Church accused of selling snake oil has Tampa Bay area ties Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian-trained astronaut?

That he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know, because I'm Lance Bass. And I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space. With no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the Earth for 313 days that changed the world.

Listen to The Last Soviet on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's bleaching my rectal cavities? I'm Robert Evans, host of Behind the Bastards, and as you can guess from that exciting, hype-filled introduction, we're going to be talking about bleach today. That was better than my bleach intro that I just said. That was better? Yes.

Nobody knows what TikTok is. You like the TikTok videos. I send you so. I claim to like them for politeness' sake, and also for politeness' sake, let me introduce my guest for today, the only person I could have on to discuss the bleach church. Mr. Billy Wayne Davis. It is so good to be here in such terrible circumstances, you guys.

Terrible circumstances. How are your circumstances doing, Billy, other than terrible? They're fine. I mean, I can't complain about my lifestyle or anything right now. It's just more like, wish I knew what was happening. Yeah, we all do, don't we? Yeah. The answer, I think, generally is not great stuff. Not great stuff is happening.

Real mixed bags. So, speaking of mixed bags, did you get on the news at all last week? Check it out, see what was going down. Yeah, our friends on Twitter really let me know what was going down too. Yeah, so to catch everybody up, about a year or so ago, you and I sat down to talk about the Genesis II church, and it's founder, a fellow named Reverend Jim Humble. And the Genesis II church has a sacrament that, as far as I know,

is unique in the annals of religion and also involves anal, so that's kind of funny. Except for it's not because the sacrament is pouring bleach up children's assholes to poison the autism out of them. So, I shouldn't have let in with a joke to that because it's just horrible child abuse. But that's what we talked about. It was a fun episode. Everybody really seemed to enjoy you and I talking about bleach. And, you know, Billy, I had ever thought I'd be looking back on 2019 as bright, housey on days, but here we are.

That was a lighter time. We had a lot to laugh about back then. I mean, everyone reminding me on Twitter of what was happening made me immediately just be like, oh, this is bad, you guys, because we're really making fun of it like this is just the most obscure bullshit you've ever heard of. Exactly. It reminds me a little bit of how when I was young, you know, 1920, 21, driving all around the dam, particularly driving around the Southwest, you know,

the desert and stuff, I listened to a lot of Alex Jones just because he was so silly and so fun. And I just he felt like this like fringe secret that like me and a few friends had that there was this like Looney Tunes dude on the radio and he would say all sorts of not so stuff. And it was it was very fun. And then all those people got killed by Info Wars fans. And suddenly he was a lot less funny. And the Church of Bleach has had an arc like that. We we I mean, not really, actually, I don't we never should have enjoyed the Church of Bleach so much

because it was always based fundamentally around horrific child abuse. But for some reason, maybe that were bad people, it felt more lighthearted a year ago. I know that's a good way to put it. That might not just make me feel superior for a little bit. And that's nice. And that's probably shouldn't have, but we we laughed about the Church of Bleach as horrible as it was. And I guess it was it was one of those things where it was always bad. Like all the stuff we talk about on the show is bad.

So like you could argue we shouldn't be laughing about any of it, but we do because it's a way of coping with the horror. But it felt like a like a fringe thing. Like it was this it was this this is horrible for these few dozen families and stuff. But like surely something this dumb, this like unabashedly stupid, never be a big deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like this has to have only happened to like in a couple of limited cases, right? It can't be a regular thing. Yeah, but it is where it's like they heard about it and then they kept doing it. So it's like, ah, yeah, care.

It's like if it's like someone opened a bar for crocodiles and suddenly drunk crocodiles became like a major danger to life and limb. Yeah, so there are a couple of stories before Trump got a hold of it where I was like, I think I brushed it off because my brain couldn't comprehend that it was getting some mainstream stuff. I was like, oh, this is just in my zeitgeist because Robert and I talked about it. Yeah, because we talked about the bleach guy, but it's it's spreading Billy much like if you if you drop bleach on your favorite pair of bright red trousers. A white, decolored spot will spread upon the pants. The cult of bleach is spreading throughout the United States and it does not appear to be abating anytime soon. And it received a major shot in the arm last week when the president of the United States, one Donald Jonathan Ames Trump said and I quote, I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs.

Now he said this during one of his one of his big addresses to the media that he was doing every single day. And because he said this, he is no longer doing those every single day because there was there was a bit of an outcry to this one. Now, the president, he is the answer to the eternal question. Like, I mean, what's the worst that can happen? Put him out there and then they're like, shit, he did it again. Oh, it was the worst. Yeah. So the president got up in front of America and he he made that statement. He did not suggest that people drink or otherwise and just bleach. He didn't mention bleach at all. He just said disinfectant and people kind of filled in disinfectant with bleach.

Yeah. And it's one of those things where like it's very frustrating on both sides because on one hand you had a bunch of people saying Trump told everyone to drink bleach and he he didn't tell everyone to drink bleach. He talked about injecting disinfectant, which is equally dumb but different. But at the same time, all of the people who do drink bleach, namely our friends at the Genesis to church saw his word as an endorsement of their sacrament. Hours after the president's statement, Genesis to Archbishop Mark Grinnon posted this to his Facebook wall. Trump has got the MMS and all the info, three exclamation points. Things are happening, folks, one exclamation point. Lord help others to see that. I laughed again. I'm sorry.

It's when he said things are happening. It's like every time you're like, I can't, you guys, I can't, I want to help you, but I can't. Yeah, yeah. Lord help others to see the truth and truth is capitalized with one exclamation point. Now, so that's Mark Grinnon, who's the Archbishop of the Bleach Church. Another Trump fan who saw his words as an endorsement of drinking bleach was Jordan Sather, a prominent voice in the QAnon community. Jordan has more than 151,000 followers on Twitter. He has 222,000 subscribers on YouTube. He is a vocal advocate of drinking bleach.

He responded to the president's statement with a tweet quoting his words and then saying this. Do you realize how freaking cheap and easy it would be to mass produce chlorine dioxide for hundreds of thousands of people? We could wipe out COVID quick. The biggest hurdle is education, which is difficult without shit our media is. Doctors should be learning about this stuff. He's got some kernels of truth in there. He has some kernels of truth where he's like the problem is education. That is accurate.

It is accurate that with enough bleach, we could wipe out COVID-19. If you drowned whole cities in a wave of bleach, then COVID-19 would no longer be a problem. If we just focus... Yeah, well, we're a singular focus here. That's all we're doing. You said to get rid of it. You didn't say not kill everyone. You didn't say that.

You could wipe out COVID-19 with bleach in a similar manner to how you could wipe out COVID-19 with a hydrogen bomb. Now we're talking. Now we're talking about solutions. Yes, and this episode of Behind the Bastards is supported by the hydrogen bomb, which is of course a product of our main sponsor, Raytheon Industries. Raytheon, why not kill everybody? Let's do it. Come on, Raytheon. That's Jordan Sather.

Now Twitter removed that message that Jordan Sather put up and Business Insider went to Twitter for a statement on exactly where the line was for people like Sather. And I think they were basically like, a lot of other people are still talking about drinking bleach and they haven't been banned. Like, where is your line? And I want to read you the response that Twitter spokesperson gave because it is a masterclass in Weasel words. Quote, we're prioritizing the removal of COVID-19 content when it has a call to action that could potentially cause harm. As we've said previously, we will not take enforcement action on every tweet that contains incomplete or disputed information about COVID-19. So telling people that bleach might help with COVID-19 doesn't cross the line. Telling them to drink it crosses the line.

Because if you're just saying COVID bleach seems like it helps with COVID-19, that's disputed. But if you're telling people to drink bleach, that's Twitter's line. So that's an interesting line for Twitter to have taken. That is a line that a room full of Twitter's lawyers spent, I don't know. Yeah. I would say an extra two days just to jack up the price and then be like, here's the line we came up with. Isn't that funny? Yeah, it is very funny.

Yeah, there's a movie. I think it's a pretty good movie. Some people have their critiques of it called Conspiracy. That's like a made-for-TV movie about the Wannsee Conference, which is where Reinhardt-Hydrich and Eidolf Eichmann and a bunch of other Nazis planned the Holocaust. And there's a scene in it where they're kind of discussing the mechanics of genocide and how to get X number of people into Y number of trains and move them to these camps and that camps. They're working through the logistics of genocide. And they have an argument about German law and about whether or not what they're doing is abiding by the laws that the Nazis have passed. And one of the characters says, raise your hand if you're a lawyer.

And everybody in the room raises their hand because it was true. Almost everyone who was in the room that day was a lawyer. And I feel like you would have the same reaction from the people whose job it is to make Twitter's content lines for things like bleach drinking. Not that it's the same thing, but that scene was brought to mind because, yeah, you're right. It's definitely just a room full of lawyers who have no concern as to whether or not they're actually spreading disinformation, but are concerned about whether or not Twitter is legally liable for the spreading of disinformation, which is a good and fine thing about our system. It's the same one-track mind as the dude that's going to kill COVID with the bleach. Where it's like, as long as this is this, then I'm safe.

You see how he thinking, motherfucker. Yeah, it's one of those things where at some point the things that they spawn by thinking that way will endanger them. And in fact, already has endangered them even if they don't see it. But they're still making money, so they're fine with it, which is, again, a cool and good aspect of our system. So as a fun aside, so we're talking about Jordan Sather and Twitter's decision to delete some of his tweets. He didn't ban him from Twitter. And it's interesting to me that they're not okay with his call to action to drink bleach, but they are fine about the fact that Jordan Sather has recently gone mask off with some very Nazi-adjacent beliefs.

On March 11th, he tweeted, What is the real virus plaguing our world? And then followed this word with them inside three sets of parentheses, which is a very common way online to signal that someone is Jewish. This tweet is still up today. It had more than 2,000 likes the last time I saw it. But oddly enough, Twitter removed a tweet he made on Holocaust Remembrance Day, theorizing that the victims of the Holocaust hadn't been killed,

but had instead been taken to work as slaves on an alien base in Antarctica. So I am not sure, again, where the line is there, but it's pretty cool, Billy. I got nothing on that one. That last one came out if you're just like, oh. Yeah, Twitter's like, you can insinuate that Jewish people are the real virus, but you can't say that Holocaust victims were taken to Antarctica to serve on an alien base. That's our, okay, Twitter. It's awesome. That's, it is awesome.

That is, that's the, it is awe-inspiring. That is the definition of awe. Yeah, it's awesome in the same way that like seeing a whale with your own eyes is awesome. Where it just inspires this powerful sense of emotion. So back to Mark Grinnin and our beloved Bleach Church. Mark seems to have basically gotten started as the assistant to Jim Humble, and as Humble has aged, Mark appears to have taken the reins of the church and turned his billion-year-old Space Navy veteran boss into a figurehead.

Grinnin is not nearly as colorful a figure as Humble, and he's mostly been a secondary figure even within the realm of weird bleach cult people. But after the president's tweet, Mark Grinnin leapt into our shared national zeitgeist thanks to reporting from The Guardian. They wrote, The leader of the most prominent group in the U.S. peddling potentially lethal industrial bleach is a miracle cure for coronavirus, wrote to Donald Trump at the White House this week. In his letter, Mark Grinnin told Trump that chlorine dioxide,

a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side effects when drunk, is a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body. He added that it can rid the body of COVID-19. So this would be why everyone was tagging us last week, Billy. They were sharing this with us. So, yeah, Billy, that was why everybody was tagging us last week. And one of the major sources for that Guardian article

was an episode of the Genesis 2 Church's own podcast in which Archbishop Grinnin and his son celebrate Trump's seeming endorsement of their sacrament. And before we move on and talk about whether or not Mark Grinnin actually had an impact on what Trump said, I want to play you the first minute or so of the Genesis 2 Church's own podcast, mainly so you can hear the reggae musical number that they used to open every single episode, because it is, Billy, this is Stone Cold Perfection. It's a health revolution. How they duck and they die, but spread lies and confusion.

But in truth we abide, we got the solution. It's a health revolution. It's a health revolution. Welcome, welcome, welcome to the G2 Voice broadcast. It's Sunday, April 19th in the year of the Lord Jesus Christ, 2020. That's what the date is based on. My name is Mark Grinnin and I'm here with my co-host, Joseph Grinnin. Isn't that amazing?

I've never seen it. I can't even talk about it, you guys. I mean, now I'm glad I want to send it to people. Yeah, you should. You should. Spread this far and wide. It is, I know, I shouldn't, but I'm going to, because it's the reggae, what decision? It's a health revolution.

Okay, that's where they're coming. I'm just curious like what meeting they had to be like, what music are we going to do for this? Because they had a meeting. They had a meeting and Billy, it makes, when you really think it through, because I have spent, I don't want to talk about how much time I've spent thinking about why the Bleach Coat podcast starts with a reggae song. But I've come to a point where it makes total sense to me and I'm going to walk you through my thinking.

So we all remember, I hope, those of us who are not 18 or 19, and I'm happy for all of the Zoomers listening, but once upon a time, marijuana was actually really, really illegal as opposed to just really, really illegal in like half the country and more legal than alcohol in the other half of the country. And in those days, we all thought pot was more of a medicine than it is, which isn't to say that pot doesn't have some, marijuana, the plant can't be turned into a number of different medications. But we really got into the whole weed as medicine thing, and a whole hell of a lot of reggae was focused on the medical implications of marijuana

and what a powerful treatment it was. And it turns out that when you get a group of people together who all believe that the mainstream medical establishment is like hiding the truth about a powerful medication and the government is conspiring with them to hide the truth about a powerful medication for the purposes of profiting. And also those people are all high all the time. It's not super hard to get them to believe that other hidden medications might be unjustly cracked down on by the medical establishment. And that is why reggae makes sense as a music for the Bleach Church.

That, unfortunately, that all tracks. Everyone I know and want to support sometimes, but they make it hard. Yes, I agree. These are salesmen, they're very smart. That's what they're doing. And they're like, hey, you know what'll work this? And you're like, yeah, you're right. Yeah, let's take advantage of the fact that for justified reasons, nobody trusts the government and nobody really trusts the pharmaceutical industry.

And we actually do know that there are a number of substances with medical properties that were in our harshly banned for no good reason. So maybe this is another case like that, right? And it's like, I used to love that kind of natural medicine. Let's all get high and listen to reggae and take mushroom subculture. And the overall theme of 2020 has been let's just take everything you used to love and twist it so that it's horrible and unrecognizable. And it's great, Billy. It's awesome.

Well, it's, and that's where they can call it a gateway drug, I guess now for everything. I didn't think they could call it a gateway drug for bleach, but they're going to because they're gonna say, it's because they lied about what cannabis really is. And it's why I tried cocaine for the first time after I got stoned a week after and I was like, oh, shit, this one's bad. This one is bad. And it's not that marijuana is a gateway drug. It's that the entire way that our society deals with narcotics and also deals with medicine and deals with attempting to inform people about both has led to a situation

where it is incredibly easy for nonsense like this to get perpetrated. Like it's not blaming pot or reggae for this. It all traces back to the government as most problems do. But in this particular case, the villains that we're speaking about specifically are not, well, mostly are not members of the government. One of them is that's coming up. So now, obviously, again, the Guardian was right to publish this article talking about the fact that Grinnon and his followers had been mass mailing Trump prior to his disinfectant comments.

Grinnon states on this podcast that he sent Trump a letter heralding the power of drink and bleach and that like at least 30 of his followers had also sent letters to the president. And a lot of people online, particularly the folks tagging us, kind of translated this to mean that, oh, Trump was influenced to suggest people drink bleach because members of the bleach church got to him. And as far as I can tell, there's no evidence of this. And I think it's also incredibly unlikely that this is the case. There's actually a picture of Trump staring at like an infographic that talks about the benefits of disinfectant

and how quickly disinfectant can kill COVID-19 when it's out of the body that was taken right before he went and gave his speech. And it seems it was probably just like a fucking stream of consciousness thing for him. It is incredibly implausible that Donald J. Trump has ever heard of Mark Grinnon or the Genesis 2 church. And I think it's equally unlikely that he was talking about bleach when he thought about injecting disinfectants. Now, there's a couple of reasons for this. One of them is that presidents receive a lot of letters, like 30 some odd letters from the bleach church doesn't really make a dent in the actual total number of letters he receives. I don't know how many letters Trump gets, but I found an Atlanta News Now article from back in 2009 about President Obama

that stated that his administration received something like 65,000 paper letters every single week. Now, Obama had a standing policy of being sent 10 of those letters at random every day. It was kind of like one of the things he did at the start of his day. I don't know if Trump continued this policy, but I doubt it. I think it's kind of unlikely. You don't think he got up and read what the people thought or read anything? Not entirely certain he can read. No, he haven't.

Yeah, so I highly doubt Trump read any of these letters. And it's very unlikely that the fact that the letters were sent to him is no smoking gun, just because he gets tens of thousands of letters every day. But it's still it's playing to that same audience. Yes, and his comments. What's really important is not whether or not Trump was thinking of the Bleach Church. I honestly don't think he was thinking of much at all. I totally buy what some people have said that he was just bullshitting up on that.

Like he was just talking like he normally talks in meetings and he just doesn't ever think about what he's doing. And so it happened that he was randomly theorizing about nonsense while he was talking to the entire country. And that's kind of what went down. Regardless of whether or not there was any intent behind Trump's comments. Yeah, this was taken as like a signal by a number of members of the Bleach Church. And I think one of them is someone we talked about on our last two parter. You remember Carrie Rivera? Yes.

She's the woman who made a career out of urging parents to shoot Bleach up their children's assholes in order to cure their autism. She believes that autism doesn't need to happen and has a quote-unquote cure and that cure is rectal bleach. Now, on February 5th, 2020, as it started to become clear that COVID-19 is going to be... Spoiler, you guys. She doesn't have a ton of proof that it works. No. Her proof that it works is that shooting bleach into kids and making them drink bleach destroys their intestinal lining and makes them shit out bits of their intestines that kind of look like little bitty worms, which she claims are parasites being cleared from the body. So she's not great, Billy. No.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Not great. And like any good grifter, as soon as this pandemic hit, she realized that it was going to be like a big moneymaker for her. On February 5th. Yeah, of course she did. She is a good grifter. Yeah. On February 5th, she published a blog post titled Good News! Coronavirus Destroyed by Chlorine Dioxide. And her source for this was a study published by the National Institutes of Health.

Now, all the study states is that coronavirus in wastewater can be inactivated by high enough doses of bleach. So basically, studies like, yeah, if there's coronavirus in like a bunch of dirty water and you pour bleach in it, the coronavirus will die. So that's what the study said. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah. And I could make claims about the ability of my AR-15 to cure coronavirus in much the same way. And it would be equally useless in terms of medical advice.

Now, here's how Cary interpreted that. The article suggests chlorine dioxide is 100% effective in killing coronavirus. We already know CD, chlorine dioxide, is safe for ingestion by people and has been used for helping the body heal from any number of health conditions, including autism, malaria, herpes and AIDS. All similar illnesses there. All have the same cause. Man, if you can get, that's a, man, I know if, I know some friends of mine that it would have gotten that herpes information at the right time would have drank and bleached for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that's probably true. Now, Billy, this actually happened today, April 28th, as we record this episode, but Cary very recently published a note to her telegram group and we're going to talk about her telegram groups. Referencing directly President Trump's disinfectant comments. She stated, our time has come. Why has it been vilified by the media? Why is it that they don't want us to know? Would it destroy big farmers profits since it's an abundant mineral?

And basically she claimed that like, yeah. In essence, yes. Yes, it will. If everyone's dead, it will destroy their profits. Yeah. She was right about that. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's, yeah, it's, it's cool. So she sees this as a major opportunity to all of the bleach people. Like two things are true. Number one, it's very unlikely that Trump was directly reaching out to the bleach church, which is, again, fairly small in terms of actual numbers. It would make no sense for him to reach out to these people. And there's no evidence he even knows they exist. But at the same time, all of his very, very recklessly irresponsible comments were taken as an endorsement by everyone who drinks bleach. So both of those things can be true, but it's important to be correct about, like, what is actually going down here.

Now, Carrie Rivera was barred from selling drink and bleach in Illinois in 2015, but she still absolutely makes a living selling chlorine dioxide. She's just developed a way to do that without technically selling the bleach directly. Instead, she advises people on how to drink bleach. And we'll talk about her more in just a bit. Carrie is heavily affiliated with Jim Humble and the Genesis Two Church, and if you want to see the church as something like an MLM, like a pyramid scheme, a multi-level marketing company, Carrie Rivera would be one of those, like, rare distributors and, like, the top 1% who actually makes money. And I think that is kind of a good way to view this, because it does seem to be sort of like a pyramid scam. Now, Carrie and her felt, yes?

You know what's not like a pyramid scam? You can't guarantee that. You can't guarantee that who's advertising is not a pyramid scheme. No, because we accidentally did advertise for a pyramid scheme once, and we apologize for that. Yeah, and also the Raytheon. I mean, I do want to say, if you want to become a Raytheon distributor, there's actually, like, do you know any small Sub-Saharan African nations that don't currently have a way to put down uprisings by mine workers through aerial bombardment? Because Raytheon can help, and you can help sell those products. See, my dad, I told my dad, I was like, listen, these are bridges I can burn, and he was like, not always, and he's right.

He turns out he was right. Yeah, don't burn the bridge. Blow it up with a hellfire missile from 1700 meters up in the air on the back of a predator drone. And you can get a 15% commission on all of the predator drones that you sell to state and non-state actors. You want to sell to ISIS, you know, you want to sell to HTS, you want to sell to the IRA. It doesn't matter. Once you're a Raytheon distributor, you can sell to anyone, because Raytheon's motto is, we don't have lines. Anyway, here's-

We have booms. So go to RaytheonDistributorSales.org.com. I think they find you, if we're being honest. Yeah, just put a sign up in front of your house that says, I want to sell drones, and they'll get to you. I'm into this. It's an outbreak. Here's our other products. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you, hey, let's start a coup?

Back in the 1930s, a marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the U.S. and fascism. I'm Ben Bullitt. And I'm Alex French. In our newest show, we take a darkly comedic- And occasionally ridiculous- Deep dive into a story that has been buried for nearly a century. We've tracked down exclusive historical records. We've interviewed the world's foremost experts.

We're also bringing you cinematic, historical recreations of moments left out of your history books. I'm Smedley Butler, and I got a lot to say. For one, my personal history is raw, inspiring, and mind-blowing. And for another, do we get the mattresses after we do the ads, or do we just have to do the ads? From iHeart Podcast and School of Humans, this is Let's Start a Coup. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science.

And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match. And when there's no science in CSI. How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus? It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC.

What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there, as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991, and that man, Sergei Krekalev, is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on Earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space. 313 days that changed the world. Listen to The Last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back.

So, Billy, we're talking about Bleach, we're talking about Kerry Rivera, the Bleach Church, all these salespeople. And again, they all, even before President Trump made his statements, like they took that as like a major endorsement of their world view, which is, again, entirely based around the fact that Bleach cures all illnesses, which should be sillier. But it's not. It's not. This is what we're living in. Yeah, Trump gave these folks a big old shot in the arm, but they were going hard on the Bleach before, like, as soon as the COVID-19 pandemic started. And in fact, they did so well at convincing people that drinking Bleach was a cure for the coronavirus that two weeks ago,

the U.S. government sued the Genesis II church for violating the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetics Act. They alleged that the church's website, quote, contains claims that MMS is intended to cure, mitigate, treat, or permit coronavirus, which includes COVID-19 and links to testimonials claiming that MMS cures a litany of other diseases, including, among others, Alzheimer's, autism, brain cancer, HIV, AIDS, and multiple sclerosis. And part of what's going on here is really interesting. So the founder, Jim Humble, said a number of times that drinking Bleach was a cure and then had to come out and backtrack some of his statements and be like, no, no, no, no, I wasn't saying it was a cure. It allows the body to heal itself, but it doesn't cure anything because he started to get a lot of regulatory attention. And he has kind of faded into the background of the Bleach drinking scene. He's turned into like, like they still talk about him a lot, but I don't see much from him directly.

Mark Grinnon is really the main face. And Mark Grinnon has completely ignored what I would call the wisdom of his elder and is just sort of just straight up saying, yeah, this shit cures whatever you have. So is Kerry Rivera. So are all of the grifters who are kind of most active today. And this is, again, part of why I don't think that Trump was signaling to the Bleach people in particular, because his FDA has been pretty on point about going after the Bleach church since COVID-19 hit. I'm going to quote from coverage in The Independent now. This is currently prevented from selling MMS under a temporary restraining order. The FDA is also seeking a permanent injunction and refunds for people who bought MMS. Genesis was selling MMS online and describes it as a sacrament. Attempting to purchase the product today leads to an error page that says, we are currently in prayer, exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. During these difficult trying times, we are in prayer in seeking thee, all caps, lords, wisdom and guidance. Please pray for us.

So that's good. That's going to be my error page on my website too. That's a good idea. Also, have we thought about if maybe these two quote unquote preachers are in a contest to see who they can get their flock to heaven first, and that's their whole game? Yeah. Yeah, that might be what's going on here, Billy Wayne. Some weird, self-aware cult leaders who are betting on who they can Jim Jones their shit fast enough, faster. Well, actually, there's a lot of comparisons to Jim Jones, and I think there's a number of reasons why that actually isn't as fitting as people think. Because the folks who committed suicide with Jones, who drank the Kool-Aid, which is actually, I think, Flavorade, they all knew they were taking poison. Like some of them resisted it, a lot of them took it willingly, but they knew that it was poison. Like nobody thought anything was going to happen, but that they would die, whereas these people are taking poison and think it's going to cure them.

So this is actually like the Heaven's Gate people, or not Heaven's Gate, what was Jim Jones? The Jim Jones drink the Kool-Aid, whatever people, they knew what they were doing. They wanted to commit suicide, and they took functional scientific steps to kill themselves. What's actually happening here is much dumber. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. It's wild. It's a bummer that we have to be that specific, but that's where shit is in 2020. It's good. How much of this do you think has to do with all the new technology we have just in the last 30 or 40 years exploded? Yeah, I think a lot of this is a reaction to the complexity of our society and life.

One of the things, so there's so many different interlocking subcultures here, but one of the different bullshit medicine subcultures that ties into the Bleach Church, because they're all talking about, like, you know, Carrie Verra saying that it cures herpes and malaria and all these things that are not even a little bit similar in terms of the way they work on the body and how you actually treat them. It ties in with, like, there's this guy who's on Alex Jones' show a bunch, and who's on Carrie Cassidy, another, like, conspiracy theorist, like, luminaries show a bunch, who believes that there's no diseases. There's only, like, one illness, and it's the result of, like, some spiritual problem, and they all kind of tie into that. Like, that is a general belief from all these communities that all illness is really just, like, a spiritual problem. And there's a number of reasons for this. For one thing, a lot of these folks are kind of fundamentally conservative, and it allows them to blame sick and hurting people for their illnesses. For another thing, it's just a, I think it's a reaction to complexity. Like, actual health science is so fucking complicated that if you can just convince yourself, no, there's only one illness, and I only need to do then one thing to protect myself and my family from all sickness. That is comforting. Yeah, it's the same. It's why those people are also usually racist, too.

Yes. Because it is a simple form of being like, I need a color not to like. That's what I like. Yeah. No, you're exactly right. Yeah. I'm scared of crime, and it's not a multifaceted problem that has to be, like, attacked from a variety of different standpoints in order to actually reduce violence and make a safer world. It's the problem of this group of people. Yeah. Like, it's all kind of the same thought processes. It's their melanin. Yeah. It's dumb, but all of the dumb things in 2020, almost all of them are the same dumb, right? Like, you just have to trace back what they're actually thinking about, which is cool and good. It's cool that the technology, we've made technology easy enough that the dumb can just get it out there to whoever.

Yeah. Yeah. There's no, nothing's stopping them from just shot getting their stupid out to the world. Yeah. So, Mark Grinnin, who describes himself as a co-founder of the Genesis 2 church, wrote a letter to the FDA in response to all this. Now, in that letter, he explained, quote, the sacraments are sacred and holy to us, and we use them to keep out, to keep our temples clean. In doing so, we've helped millions around the world. We have a lot of testimonies and evidence. It seems if you mention anything can rid the body of COVID-19 is not approved by the FDA, you get attacked. Well, Mr. President, they attacked the wrong church, the church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Oh, shit, that church? Yeah.

Oh, shit. Now, that last line is real interesting to me, Billy, for a couple of reasons. For one, Jim Humble claims to be a billion-year-old space god slash navy man and was slash is a practicing Scientologist. Say that again. Jim Humble claims to be a billion-year-old space god slash navy man, because he was in the navy, too, the space navy. Okay. In his Scientologist, the space navy that the aliens had. He was in the Storg?

No, I think it was dumber than that. I don't think he actually did that much time in Scientology, but I don't know exactly. Yeah, it's one of those things. So one thing, it's odd that Mark Grinnin, who is the co-founder of Jim Humble's church, claims that he's the church of the Lord Jesus Christ and also seems to believe that his prophet is a billion-year-old space god. Because I think God doesn't like other gods. I don't know. I need to reread the Ten Commandments. He's confused, I think. Yeah. I like the idea that he's a space avian and he came to Earth and he was like, first of all, navy looks dope. I'm gonna get into that. And also, Jesus, this seems real.

Yeah, yeah. It's pretty fun to try to trace back all that thinking. So I don't know. I guess belief that Jim Humble is a space god. I like it. I'm in. I'm in. Yeah, it's whatever. I feel if we go every way, he'll fill in the gaps. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm not gonna lean too much against that part. But one thing I will point out that does clash directly with Mark Grinnin's claims that they're the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ is some statements made on the Genesis 2 church's website.

See, the government's lawsuit against Genesis explicitly describes the church as a, quote, secular entity based in the state of Florida. And that's not the government, like, making a judgment and saying like, no, we've decided as the government that this is not a legitimate church. That's based on how the Genesis 2 church describes itself on their own website. They call themselves a non-religious church with a goal to restore health to the world and say that they were, quote, formed for the purpose of serving mankind and not for the purpose of worship. Which, again, makes it seem odd that they would claim to be the true church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Now, I found all that really interesting. I think they lack language. I think they lack language more than anything.

Mark Grinnin, who, spoiler, is the one who's written everything that we're talking about today. He has a real interesting relationship with language, Billy. So I hopped on over to the... You can tell with the three exclamation points. That's kind of one of his tells. So I hopped over to the Genesis 2 church's website myself to see what other interesting tidbits I could find. And I can't say for certain who wrote the copy on that website, which looks like a GeoCities site from 1996. But I'm pretty sure it's Mark Grinnin. He calls himself the Archbishop and co-founder of the church.

He's one of the only people really named repeatedly on the church. He has an extensive social media presence and having trolled through his Facebook and some of his other posts, the style of writing on the website matches Mark's writing style on Facebook and in the letter to the FDA to a T. Now, when I visited his Facebook feed, the top post on it was a unilad video summarizing Trump's disinfectant comments. And the video itself was a pretty normal and uncontroversial piece of kind of basic reportage, just sort of going over what Trump had said and how people had reacted to it. Mark wrote above the video, though. Trump has got the MMS and all the info.

Exclamation point, exclamation point, exclamation point. Things are happening, folks. Lord help others see the truth. Now, the post, which is still up on Facebook, has more than 150 comments. And thankfully, most of those comments are people there dunking on Mark Grinnin. There's a mix of anti-Trump memes, a lot of Jim Jones memes, and a bunch of links to actual good reporting on the dangers of MMS and his stupid church. So I just kept going down his post and for an idea of kind of like some of the other things this guy talks about, one of the links up there was that he shared a YouTube video about Microsoft patenting a chip for monitoring human beings.

That was like patent number 666, which is nonsense. But interestingly enough, that same week, Alex Jones discussed this same fake, you know, bullshit patent story on his InfoWars show, which just goes to show kind of how connected all these people are. And yeah, it's cool and good. My favorite post was probably one that he... It was a picture of Dr. Anthony Fauci with a bunch of text on the image that said, hashtag, plantemic, there will be a surprise outbreak. Dr. Anthony Fauci stating there will be a surprise outbreak the coming administration will face.

And this is a link to a video that was also in Alex Jones last week, which basically pointed out that Dr. Fauci warned that the incoming Trump administration would face a surprise disease outbreak in January of 2017. And a lot of conspiracy folks are saying this is proof that Anthony Fauci is in on the coronavirus pandemic and help make it. The reality of the comments is that he was saying every single other administration has dealt with a surprise disease outbreak in the last 30 years, so the Trump administration will too and we're not ready for it, which is completely accurate in exactly what happened. But, so Mark Grinnan shared this video and he just wrote a one word post above it. R-V-I-L. Irvil. I think he was trying to type evil, but he misspelled it.

Because that's how much he's expelled it from himself, is he can't even spell it. That's how much I hate evil right there. I don't even know how to spell it. He's got to call it an arvil. His body won't let him type the E. God, that's so funny. That's so funny. So this is going through his social media as I have is why I'm certain that he wrote what I'm about to read large segments from. So on the Genesis 2 Church's website, there's a segment of the website just titled Our Church, which describes the history and the purpose of the church and is one of the funniest things I've ever read,

although I guess more horrifying than funny in light of its current influence. But I want to just state that based on my reading of all of his other writing off the website, I am certain that Mark Greenin is the only person who wrote this. Like, I will be shocked if another hand touched this prose. And I'm just going to start reading from this now, Billy. Now you stop me when you have a question, okay? There has never been a similar church to this church. There has never been a church of health and healing insofar as our research has been able to determine.

Our name is Genesis 2 Church of Health and Healing. The word Genesis means the beginning. The two, or in a parentheses two, symbolizes the second beginning. And we look to the words health and healing to indicate that we are working towards bringing health to the world. In most countries of the world, the common law says, and or statues have been legislated to say, it is legitimate purpose to form a church to serve God or to serve all caps mankind in some way. So far, our research shows down through the ages, it has almost always been stated legally and lawfully that the second purpose of serving mankind is a legitimate purpose for forming a church.

Remember, a church is nothing more than a group of people who have joined together for some common purpose. And as stated above, we have not been able to find any evidence of any other church that has ever been formed to serve mankind all caps. So that's interesting to me for a few reasons, Billy. For one thing, that's not what a church is. A church is not any group of people who joined together for a common purpose, because you could define, for example, the Microsoft Corporation that way. Yes, or any magic the gathering or any game of spades. Yeah, any game of spades, a Dungeons and Dragons group,

which as far as I'm aware is not tax deduct or is not an untaxable entity. Yeah, and it's also I think we're doing church right now. We're doing church. We are. This is church. This is a church, which means us. Sophie, can you get my accountant on the line and tell him I'm going to stop paying taxes? Yeah. Okay, and I'm going to move to a shack in the woods and start manufacturing rifles as well. And I expect this to be fine with them. Yeah, no problem.

Okay. They love it. They love decisions like that. Absolutely. Yeah, I think so. I think this is going to end well for me and the family that I bring up onto a red-colored ridge line with myself. So, yeah, it's fascinating to me. I'm really interested in the degree of specificity and focus that Mark Griddon has on insisting that his church is not for worship or religion, even though he claims it's the only true church of Jesus Christ.

That's really weird to me. And I'm not sure why he makes such a point of making this claim, especially since he got all Jesusy in his response to the FDA. Like we said before, the way he uses language, my favorite line in what you just read me was when he was like, according to our research, there's never been a church like that. Yeah. Well, you're like, well, yeah, I mean, I've tried to use that answer in class too. We're like, I'm correct according to all the research I did. And the teacher's like, what research is that? And I'm like, ah, it's not going to talk about that part.

It refers to his research a lot without citing it. Yeah, and it's interesting. Griddon really finds it important on his website to state repeatedly that his church is not formed around the worship of any specific God. He writes, we were formed to serve mankind all caps directly. We want to bring health to the world. We will also serve all caps mankind in other ways. We intend to help all caps mankind extract himself from a world of death to a world of the living over the coming years. It is not a religious goal. It is a realistic goal of having us all live in a decent world, a world where the brutality has finally been overcome, where men no longer kill other men for financial gain.

Now drink my bleach. Now drink my bleach. Yeah. It all sounds less stirring when you realize this guy's talking about nothing but drinking bleach. I'm just trying to help people drink this thing, drinking. Now, Billy, the desire though for a world where brutality has been overcome, where men no longer kill other men for financial gain, that sounds nice though, right? Like, we can all get on board that. I don't like killing men for financial gain.

But even a casual amount of Googling brings up numerous stories of brutality carried out by Genesis II church adherents. And to tell that story, I know, surprising. To tell that story, I want to roll back to our old friend, Carrie Rivera for a second. Now, it's kind of hard for me to tell what her relationship to Genesis II is precisely. I've heard her refer to both as a member of the church and as a former member of the church. She was recently a guest on Mark Greenin's Genesis II podcast where he called her a great healer. So it's fair to say that the church approves of her work serving mankind and trying to overcome brutality and stop men from killing each other for financial gain.

And that might, that last one at least, might be technically true because Carrie Rivera definitely kills people for financial gain, but most of them are children. So, Jesus. That's good. There's always like as much as I've heard and been on this show and you think like, I know where this is headed. There's always like a little, like just a little curve at the end. Just a terrible, terrible curveball at the end.

We're like, God damn it. Well, now Carrie is our asshole bleaching lady. That's, yeah, I know. I know, I know. I mean, you know, Billy, if you poison them with bleach when they're kids, it reduces the amount of damage they can do as adults. That's not true. That is not true.

Yeah. It actually probably increases it by quite a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah, just statistically, probably a number of serial killers being spawned as a result of the horrible abuse they encounter in this cult. A lot of bleach based serial killers in about 15 years going to be trawling the California highways. So, since our last episode, sorry, it's the COVID.

I need my bleach. Robert. Since our last, what? I don't like that line. Sophie. Robert, it's time for an ad break. I don't like that line. It's time for an ad break.

You know it'll cure your coronavirus. Damn it, Robert. Did he go too dark? I don't think that's possible. No, no. It triggered unhappiness in my heart though. Well, that's the show. See, here's my thinking, Sophie.

Here's my thinking. If bleach cures the coronavirus, which as far as everything I've read has to be true, if bleach cures the coronavirus, and Raytheon can make a missile with help from the good folks at Lockheed Martin that just is made of knives, that whole knife missile thing. If they can make a knife missile, couldn't they make a bleach missile? Yeah. Not couldn't. It's time for ads, guys.

Why aren't they? Afghanistan and Syria both have bad coronavirus problems, right? You could solve that with enough bleach missiles. It's time for our drones to get into the medical business, and the good folks at Raytheon slash Lockheed Martin are going to help with that, so support them. Let the people get back to work. Let the people get back to work. Gentleman.

Get America back to work and back to bleaching. Robert, I would like to keep working on this podcast, so we're going to have to go to break and not say things that incriminate ourselves. All right, products. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you, hey, let's start a coup? Back in the 1930s, a Marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the U.S. and fascism.

I'm Ben Bullitt. And I'm Alex French. In our newest show, we take a darkly comedic. And occasionally ridiculous. Deep dive into a story that has been buried for nearly a century. We've tracked down exclusive historical records. We've interviewed the world's foremost experts. We're also bringing you cinematic, historical recreations of moments left out of your history books.

I'm Smedley Butler, and I got a lot to say. For one, my personal history is raw, inspiring and mind blowing. And for another, do we get the mattresses after we do the ads or do we just have to do the ads? My Heart Podcast and School of Humans, this is Let's Start a Coup. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science?

The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science. And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences in a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI.

How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus? It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC. What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there, as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself

stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991 and that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on Earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space, 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back from outer space. You just all walked in to find us here with that happy look upon your face.

I'm just going to point out that I'm surprised it's taken this long for that line to happen. It's in my head every single time I bring this back for a break. Now, since our last episode, Billy Wayne, Carrie Rivera has been heavily de-platformed. She's been kicked off of YouTube, her Facebook is only allowed to share non-bleach related content, and she doesn't really have any other kind of mainstream social media apps. So Carrie had to follow in the footsteps of all of our best white nationalists, and she had to take to Telegram. She opened several private groups where paying customers could congregate to talk bleach and get paid advice from Carrie. When the coronavirus hit, Carrie Rivera immediately prescribed it to absolutely everyone as a preventative measure.

Now, Business Insider has really done some of the best reporting on the whole bleach cult. It's not normally an outlet that I'm a huge fan of, but their work on this particular story has been second to none. They reached out to Rivera for a statement about her promotion of bleach as a COVID-19 cure. She responded, quote, if you're sincerely interested in health reporting, you might look up all the medical use patents that include chlorine dioxide as an ingredient. After you've done that, maybe we can talk. Meanwhile, I'm busy helping my families. And she's referring to, like, patents for, like, water purification systems that have chlorine dioxide at wildly lower concentrations.

Anyway, I shouldn't even be, like, fact-checking her, because she's full of shit. But it's like rat poison being in the LaCroix. Look, kind of. Now, Billy, rat poison kills rats. Rats spread disease. Ergo, eating straight rat poison is a health remedy. And I would like to prescribe as much rat poison as you can fit in your gullet to all of my listeners today. Just, really, the Church of Rat Poison is opening up.

I don't condone that. I wonder, I bet it would take at least six months for the FDA to shut us down. It would take longer than, like, just as if we did it as a joke, just to see. I think it would make us so sad. We would just be like, we gotta stop. They're not gonna, this is... I mean, it might, Billy. Times are hard and I need money to buy my compound in Idaho where I cannot pay taxes and manufacture illegal sawed-off weapons.

So, you know, maybe this is... They don't look for that in Idaho, so you'll be... They sure don't. So, Business Insider, obviously, Carrie was not willing to talk to them, but they'd already obtained it into Carrie's online community, as have a number of journalists. They've, like, gotten into her telegram groups or gotten access to activists who are in these telegram groups, kind of watching what Carrie and her fellow Bleach Colt people are doing. In one video published to Carrie Rivera's Telegram Group,

Carrie advises her followers that they can prevent the rona by taking bleach and drinking it straight from the bottle by spraying it into their mouth and nose periodically, or by loading it into a humidifier and using it to coat the entire room. A lot of ruined clothes in these pictures. Now, she noted that if her followers get sick with the coronavirus anyway, which you think might suggest that maybe none of this actually works to prevent the coronavirus whatsoever, but she provided instructions for people who get the coronavirus anyway saying, quote, we can go into hyper mode and we can be doing everything.

And by this, she means that people who get the coronavirus should start not just drinking bleach, but drinking it, spraying it into their mouth and nose, and loading it into a humidifier. So... If you could wrap it around your neck, that would be helpful, too. Yeah, as much, like, Carrie, like one of those medieval plague sensors, just like Bleach constantly spraying down your front. Now, a lot of people, a heart-breaking number of people, Billy, dozens of them followed Carrie Rivera's advice, which came with predictable and horrific health consequences.

Parents uploaded photos of their wounded children to Telegram in order to ask Carrie for advice, and Business Insider republished several of these extremely disturbing excerpts from the chat. So, Billy, can you send Billy the first picture, the one that has the picture of the kid? This is part of a chat conversation in the Telegram thread, and someone, one of the parents posts, my son suddenly has a rash. Anybody know what it is? I've never seen it before, and it's a picture of what looks like a very painful rash, like, right on the kid's chest, kind of like on his pectoral area. It looks really, really nasty.

And Carrie Rivera responded, her Chimer VS Side Secondary Effect CD or any detox protocol item can cause a her Chimer reaction. Her Chimer reaction is the body saying you were going too fast at the detoxification, and she used the wrong two for that with the 1-0, which might, yeah, yeah. So, that actually counts as kind of responsible, because she's saying that they were going too fast with the bleaching of their children, which is very different from her normal responses. So, another response that Business Insider included in their article was a parent saying,

it's a full moon, my son is aggressive today. And I can say as a former special ed teacher, a lot of people even within that field have some beliefs about the full moon and it impacting particularly autistic kids' behavior. I don't think there's any evidence of that, but it's something that like a lot of parents and even caregivers talk about. So, this mom comes in and says, it's full moon, my son is aggressive today, and Carrie Rivera immediately responds, triple dose, and then in the next post, enemas, triple dose enemas, that's her response to a kid

being a little more aggressive one day than the other. And I can say that even the people I worked with in special ed, whom had some maybe non-scientific views about the full moon, none of them gave kids multiple enemas as a response to aggression. Mostly we have them practice in coloring books, but yeah. My parents are both teachers and they would come home and they would say, I mean, not even about special ed kids, they would just be like, as a full moon Friday, they were fucking out of their minds today.

Just that kind of stuff where it's like, that's a common thing. And then for her, she just sounds like that aggressive bro that's like, oh, you sad today? You need three shots. Bleach that kid's asshole, brah. Bleach it three times. Kids being aggro, bleach that asshole. Yeah. Yeah. In another exchange, a parent complains that... You're stronger. You were the kid. You're like, fuck you.

The bleach is the strongest of all, Billy. I know. Now, in another exchange in this telegram channel, a parent complains to Carrie that their child has a fever and a cold after beginning her course of MMS. They write, we are on two drops of chlorine dioxide, didn't start enema yet, kid got fever and cold, what should I do now?

Can I continue chlorine dioxide? Carrie responds, stay on chlorine dioxide 16 times a day. Chlorine dioxide baths, chlorine dioxide oral, chlorine dioxide enema. If eating stops, then only baths and enemas. I can't. Yeah. She's an unfathomably evil person and deserves to be fired out of a cannon into the sun.

I don't... Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I'm usually fundamentally against the death penalty, but you know, exceptions, you know what I mean? Exceptions. This would be the only proof I would require as a juror for like, yeah, let's just get her out of here. Let's just deal with this person.

Fire up the cannon. Fire it up. We found one. We got one. Yeah, she's a monster. If eating stops, then only baths and enemas. Like, you typed that, Carrie. You wrote that with your own hands and you didn't explode into a ball of self-loathing and you charged people money for you to write that to them.

Like, fucking hell. Yeah. Like, at least when Paul Manafort funded and helped to spark civil wars in multiple countries killing hundreds of thousands of people, I don't know how to finish that sentence. I hate them both. I bet they've hung out.

I feel like they've been in the same room probably before. They're the same kind of person in that I think that, like, there's certain groups of people like, you look at these kind of like financial criminals who like ran a lot of the banks that led us into the 2008 crash and that are definitely in the process of fucking things up again today. I think the right response, the right punishment to those people is to take away all of their money and to make them live like normal folks,

work in a normal, a straight job, you know, hold down an apartment, right? That's what you do to those people. That's the worst punishment they can get. And I think that they wouldn't be any danger to mankind if their money was gone and they just had to be a normal person. And in fact, I think some of them might actually be happier. But I think there's some people who are fundamentally toxic and who will do whatever, because of their need,

and I don't really understand what the need is, because Carrie Rivera has it. You cannot stop this person from giving dangerous, life-alteringly toxic, because kids have, at least two kids have died taking chlorine dioxide, kids have been hospitalized and lost stomach lining, specifically from taking Carrie's advice. There is nothing that will stop her from doing this. My theory, if we followed her story back deep enough to where her zenith,

there is a tree or something falling on her head. Yeah, she's a tree head case, right? Yeah, she just has to be doing this. She can't stop herself. Yes. Fucking, I hate... Yes. Yeah.

So, Carrie Rivera is a monster, and I'm not a theologian, Billy, but I might describe telling a parent to give their children chlorine baths and enemas if they stop eating. I might describe that as violating Mark Greenin's commandment that members of the Genesis 2 church should work to overcome brutality. That seems brutal to me, but I'm not a theologian, Billy. I didn't go to theologian college, theologian. So, maybe I'm wrong about that.

If you're a theologian, let us know in the comments if I've gotten religion wrong. I'm going to move back on to the Our Church explanatory essay on the Genesis 2 website. Quote, this is under the section titled, Our service to mankind consists of, Number one, doing good deeds. Number two, good health for all mankind. Number three, doing what is right, which seems like doing good deeds, but I guess it needed a second.

Freedom for all mankind. Number four, enlightening others with the truth. Number five, helping one another. Number six, which also seems like it falls under the doing good deeds heading. It's a third. He's repeating. Yeah. It's tough to get 10, I guess.

Number seven, maintain integrity in all things, which seems like doing what is right. I feel like you've got maybe actually three commandments there, but I don't know. Again, not a theologian. I think one, if we're being honest, he's just like, don't be a dick would kind of sum up all his things. I guess you could say, don't be a dick, good health for all mankind.

Yeah, maybe, maybe two. But that's still part of not being a dick, it's being healthy. Take care of yourself. It all falls into that, I think. It's not a good, like really, the more I read the Genesis two church, the more approval I have for at least kind of the amount of thinking that went into the 10 commandments, because those are all very distinct commandments.

And they apply, even if you're not really that religious, they're like, this is a good set of rules, you guys. A lot of them. You can't argue that. I'm not a big fan of the no God, but God sort of thing, but like, yeah, the whole, you know, not murdering. That's a pretty, I'm on board, right? Yeah.

And hey, that's your buddy's wife. Let it go. Yeah, fine. Let it go. He won. Yeah, there's some good stuff in there that's not repeated. I'm just saying, like, good work, Jehovah, solid commandment writing. Mark Grinnin proves that it's actually pretty hard.

So the next paragraph. He does get the confusing overall religious part of the Bible, though. He gets that part where it contradicts itself, and he gets that part pretty good. He does get, yeah, the self-contradictory part, and I don't know, Billy, fingers crossed, I think there might be a couple of genocides as a result of this bleach church in the future, but we will see. Anything can happen in 2020.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Fingers crossed. Well, the persecution's coming, so that part is going to come. Yeah. And he's going to. I told you, I told you it's coming.

I am excited for when the church, the bleach church splits into from the people who think that you need to use bleach enemas, along with bleach in the mouth and the eyes to the people who just think you need to drink bleach, and then those two sides start a war, and, like, one group winds up holding up in a castle in the south of France, and there's a horrible siege in a massacre. Like, I'm fucking really looking forward to that part of the bleach church's history.

That's going to be some good times. The bleach crusades? Oh, my God. It's going to be great. I'm kind of, now that if you put it that way, yeah, I feel like I'll be one of those people during the Civil War watching, just being like, they're fighting down on that hill down there, isn't it funny?

Yeah. Yeah, because, like, the crusades, they tried to, like, it started when they tried to retake Jerusalem, and I guess for the bleach church, it would be, like, Beverly Hills? Mmm. Yeah. That feels right. There's some good hills to watch for them, too.

That's great. There is. Great thing about LA. I'm looking forward to that religious war. So, the next paragraph of the Our Service to Mankind section is real good times, because this is where we finally learn why the Genesis 2 church put such a focus on not worshiping a God and instead focusing on helping people.

And it's because sintering their church on any God or gods would distract from the one true God of the Genesis 2 church, which is, of course, bleach. No. No. We do not feel it is our mission to teach our members any kind of beliefs beyond the technology of our sacramental protocol water and any other cleansing technology

of our healing sacraments. We believe that it is each member's private responsibility to form his or her own religious beliefs, and thus we remain neutral to all the religious beliefs of our members. So, we don't talk about any specific God, because our God is bleach-slash-sacramental protocol water. That is... I am very ex...

You know, one of the problems this church is going to have is when their equivalent of Martin Luther nails his 95 theses to the door of Mark Greenin's house, all that bleach is going to white out whatever they've written on the papers, which is going to make it hard to have bleach Lutherans. It's... Wow. Yeah.

So, after all this, the page goes on to outline the many benefits of membership in the church. Mark states that the main one is that you'll help Genesis to change the world and do a better place. He writes, quote, I mean, really change the world. Not all the manby-pamby stuff that their religions have been spewing for the past thousands of years.

Which is like taking a shot. That's like me cutting an album like in my home using nothing but this empty jug of wine and then being like, this is going to change the world. Not like that namby-pamby bullshit the Beatles put out. What did they get? A couple hundred million album sales. Nobody knows that shit.

Hey, Jude, go fuck yourself. Fuck you, pet sounds. Yeah. Yeah, you call yourself the beach boys. Nothing says the beach like me blowing into a jug. It's great. I mean, you got to respect the chutzpah. Now.

Yeah. The other benefits that mark lists of joining the Genesis church include protection against unwanted vaccinations. See, joining the Genesis to church means that you are entitled to get a little card with your face on it that you can give to your doctor or to your kid's school. And it states that your religion forbids vaccinations, unwanted X-rays or, quote, health insurance mandated by human authority.

Which I think means that members of the Genesis to church get exempt from Obamacare. Or presumably whatever single payer system the European or Australian ones are under. So that's cool. Listen, here it just feels like the dude start, I mean, it's like any religion. I understand where it's like they keep writing it

as the hiccups come along where it's like, hey, there's so many people have insurance and they're going to doctor and this is really cutting into our sales. So let's say that they're exempt from this. So they don't have to get. Yeah. I mean, I suspect this is like part of a scheme to try to exempt people from. Like, you know how it, I think this has changed under Trump,

but it used to be that like if you didn't sign up for Obamacare and you didn't have health insurance through some other means, you paid an additional tax. I'm guessing this is Mark Grinnon's way of like trying to con people by saying like you won't have to pay, you know, those taxes. If you join our church, which I don't think would actually exempt you from that tax, but that's what I'm guessing is the actual purpose of this. Yeah.

Yeah. God said I didn't have to take my LSATs, but I still get to be a lawyer. Oh, Billy, I think you have just hit upon the world's newest religion. Okay. Yeah. Lawyerism. This is this, this, this is the like, if you join our church, you are legally a lawyer and can then represent yourself in court

when the government raids your small mountain compound because you haven't been paying taxes. I object. Well. Lawyerism. If you think libertarians argued. Yeah. Lawyers.

Yeah. So the next thing membership grants you is the ability to purchase health products of all kinds in any quantity, which I think mainly means bleach in this context. So paid membership costs $35 per adult, and you also have to pay like half as much per child, plus $20 per year. And it entitles you to a photo ID that lists your rights and notes that the church will prosecute anyone caught violating them.

Mark Grinnin notes, children 12 and below are half price and each child should carry one of these cards, especially to prevent vaccinations. Oh, man. Oh, so good. So cool and so good. Where are you as a child that you could accidentally get vaccinated? They believe, I don't think Mark Grinnin believes,

I think Mark Grinnin's a con man, but they have convinced a bunch of very dumb and scared parents to believe that there's people like lurking in the fucking bushes, doctors trying to like vaccinate your kids with poison. Like that's not far off from what a lot of these folks believe. So I think that's kind of where they're coming from. So Billy, as we enjoyed laughing about last time, members of the church can also pay to become ministers of health,

either in seminars conducted by Grinnin around the world or in online classes. Grinnin notes, the training is very thorough and includes doing and using all the sacraments, protocols, on oneself. Each student learns all the technical data of why MMS works and sacraments for most diseases of mankind. Finally, there is an exam to test your mental proficiency of the G2 sacraments. Now, you might notice that the term health minister,

which is used by Grinnin on the official website, is different from the title Reverend Doctor, which church founder Jim Humble used when advertising the same thing. And this is a running theme with the Genesis II church. Responsible like journalists who have covered them will note that in different places and on the websites of different people, MMS is both stated to stand for Miracle Mineral Solution and Magical Mineral Solution,

which is a thing like respectable medical training establishments always use wildly different terms for the exact same thing. Like, that's a fine thing. It's like how we also call doctors Jimbo Jones and both of those terms are equal. I don't know. I don't know what it's like. It's not like any of these people are scam artists. Now, on his website, Mark Grinnin insists that, quote,

no one in the history of man has had as much inability to heal as many diseases with as much certainty. And he's referring to the ministers who train in his bleaching program. Medical doctors, for instance, will in their entire lifetime heal less people than one of our active ministers will heal in one year. Fuck you, doctors. Yeah, if all you're doing is pouring bleach in people's throats and calling them cured, that is easier than treating actual sick people.

It takes so long to heal a broken leg, Billy. It does. It does. It's incredibly complicated. Gunshot wounds, those can take years to heal from. But if you're just pouring bleach in people, so much easier. These idiot doctors learning how to do stuff like set bones and run ventilators when all they need is bleach. Oh, they need it. That's...

Oh, Billy, I just came up with a new hit song for my Better Than The Beatles one-man jug band, All You Need Is Bleach, set to the tune of nothing else that's ever been sung before. It's totally original. I think just with a hint of reggae underneath, we got some. Oh, yeah. Oh, fuck yeah, dude. As much reggae as you can get into a man blowing into a jug.

That's probably more reggae than you think. So, the Genesis II church also notes that the kind of certificate that you get is experienced based. So, once you've healed 10 people, you can request and pay more for a bishop certificate. So, that's really the line to become a bishop. So, we could be bishop doctors. I don't... I'm pretty ambitious, so I'm in.

You know, see, it's one of those things. The state of New Jersey has officially recognized me as a reverend doctor. That's not a joke. That's a thing that's happened. I have the certificate. So, I am already legally a reverend doctor, but I could become a reverend doctor bishop, which that's 33% more official. I'm asking anyone that has the power

in anywhere but New Jersey make me a reverend doctor so the race is on to who becomes a bishop first. Yeah, and then we can have a bishop contest. So, if you have the ability to get a state legislature to recognize someone officially, recognize Billy as a reverend doctor and also recognize me as a bishop. Oh, man, Billy, what if I were to move on to a small town

in the middle of rural Idaho, start manufacturing a legal weapon, stop paying taxes, and also run for sheriff? Then I could be sheriff, reverend doctor, bishop Evans. And I would... I would like dual citizenship with the United States in whatever you decide to call your sovereign country. Yeah, yeah, we will secede very quickly. Like, basically immediately.

Yeah, no, I just felt that I would be redundant to say that you would succeed, but that was like, I would like dual citizenship. Yeah, yeah. Now, Billy, the whole Genesis 2 website is a real comedy goldmine, or at least it would be if children weren't being tortured with bleach based on these nonsensical teachings. The next section of the explainer page on that website

is simply titled, Who Are We? And it answers that question with, The Genesis 2 Church of Health and Healing, Unusual Church, which is not inaccurate. It's very unusual, although the church part I disagree with. Now, this is followed immediately by a quote attributed to Archbishop Mark Grinnon, and remember, he's the one who wrote this, so he's wrote this

and he's quoting himself in it. And here's what he quotes himself as saying, Nothing is lawfully right that is morally wrong. Die, I mean, immediately. I'm gonna kick you in the nuts, because you are full of shit, dude. Yeah, it's awesome. It's so good that all of this has been allowed

to continue up to this point. So the FDA letter to Mark demanded that he stop selling drinking bleach, that he take action to inform his followers that he lied about its powers and that he refund their money. And in his response letter to them, Mark was unequivocal about his rejection of government's power to stop him from telling people to bleach away their problems.

He closed it out by writing, We can say cure, heal, and treat as a free church. Don't need your approval or authorization for a church sacrament. There will be no corrective actions on our part. You have no authority over us. Never going to happen. That's official.

That's how an official would write it. No, that's... Do you think he took that to like a notary to get that notarized and they're like, I mean, I'll notarize it. Yeah, knowing Mark Grinn and his notary would be just pouring a little dabble of bleach on the end there. That's a seal.

So... And stamped. I will say though, in that last statement, Mark Grinnon's Bleach Church is in lockstep with a pretty significant chunk of the Trumpist wing of the American conservative movement, and this is where things get real dark. Now, I made a point of noting that it's very unlikely

that Trump's disinfectant remarks were a direct signal to the Bleach Church, but that doesn't mean that there's been no buy-in to the Bleach cult by powerful Republican figures. You ever heard of Alan Keyes, Billy Wayne? Yeah. Dr. Alan L. Keyes, not in any way a medical doctor, is a Harvard University graduate

and a veteran of the U.S. Foreign Service. He served at consulates in India in Zimbabwe, and he was made an ambassador to the U.N. by President Ronald Reagan. He is a famed arch-conservative hardliner with a long series of failed election bids and an equally long history of being backed by Republican leaders. Reagan himself endorsed Keyes' 1988 Senate run.

I'm going to quote now from The Daily Beast. In 2004, he made headlines for abruptly moving to Chicago to run against Barack Obama, then a state senator. On the campaign trail, Keyes was vocally anti-abortion and anti-gay, infamously calling Vice President Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter a selfish hedonist. After the 2008 presidential election, Keyes became a member of the Berther movement,

which falsely charged that Obama was not born in the United States. He has since traveled in a paranoid wing of the GOP, authoring articles for the conspiracy-heavy site WorldNet Daily. Nevertheless, Keyes has more mainstream clout than some of his fellow travelers. He hosted a short-lived MSNBC show, Alan Keyes is Making Sense, in 2002, and spoke at CPAC this year.

So Keyes is, we will say, not the most mainstream Republican figure, but he is very much in the broad Republican movement and mainstream enough that he got to speak at fucking CPAC. Alan Keyes is also a big ol' fan of drinking bleach in the Church of Drinking Bleach. He first met with Mark and Jonathan Grennan in August of 2018, and after that meeting, he began increasingly touting the benefits of MMS.

His current platform is the far-right video channel IMTV, which mainly exists to push the work of Dr. Alan L. Keyes. His show, Let's Talk America, is the star program for the network. Alan has had a number of MMS touting guests, including Mike Adams, founder of Natural News, former Bastards pod subject, and a regular Infowars co-host. Another host on the IMTV network, Robert Cisson, has hosted Mark Grennan to talk about MMS.

Now, the good news is that IMTV is still a decidedly fringe endeavor. The channel streams on Roku and YouTube. I can't tell you its exact size, but it has only 300 followers on YouTube. This might lead you to reject and ignore it completely, and I want to caution people against doing that. I'm going to quote the Daily Beast again to explain why. IMTV describes itself as a news channel backed by Dr. Alan Keyes. Although that support might not necessarily be financial,

Cisson has also described another kind of backing, spiritual support from Uganda. IMTV operates a new studio out of Uganda and has released multiple videos showing Cisson and Keyes in the country together. Although those videos primarily show the pair engaged in church ministry, Cisson has said that they distributed chlorine dioxide to locals. We've been doing this for years in Africa and treating literally thousands and thousands and thousands of people

with all kinds of remarkable stories from people who were left to die because they'd been poisoned, and it cures that in just a few hours. He said in an August video titled, Chlorine Dioxide Update. Though IMTV does not appear to have uploaded footage of its affiliates distributing MMS in Uganda, other chlorine dioxide distributors in Uganda have posted pictures of themselves feeding the mixture to children. So that's good. Kids are being bleached in Uganda thanks to this guy.

He's got some steak in it then, doesn't he? Yeah, Alan Keyes has given it out himself, yeah. Yeah, he's got some money in it. I mean, because I was just like, what's his angle here? Because at first I was like, well, maybe it's just like getting the followers some power and it's money. Yeah. Now, Ugandan authorities have already arrested at least one American

probe bleach activist in the past for poisoning children, which is a real sentence about a thing that happened. This does not seem to have had an impact on people like Cison and Keyes, though. In an October 2019 edition of Keyes' show, Robert Cison stated, I'm convinced that chlorine dioxide is going to be what God uses to bring down big pharma. He directed listeners to the Genesis II website and told them to buy MMS. Then he went on to add, I do know that it will detox your body and then God himself will heal you.

And we're finding in Uganda curing malaria and poisoning in diabetes and AIDS, by the way. It's amazing. Alan Keyes, who is again a recent invited guest speaker at CPAC, listened to this and then stated that Cison's claims are, quote, why I was so interested in MMS and going to Uganda so far. So in conclusion, Billy, the Bleach Church and its prophets are profoundly silly and they don't deserve to be taken seriously, but the impact and the spread of their dangerous beliefs has to be taken seriously.

When we ignore groups like this, we allow them to spread and metastasize through our society. Trump's words have added fuel to their movement. It is no longer an option to just pretend we can ignore these people. And again, the article that just came out today from Vice quotes, Kerry Rivera and a number of other people who have been very bullish about Trump's bleach dis- or Trump's disinfectant statements saying, in one case, a person wrote, this is a major opportunity to begin a discussion about a timely and interesting application of chlorine dioxide. It's worth noting that the only person not super happy about all this in recent days has been Mark Greenin,

because his church has attracted FDA attention and they seem to be seriously pursuing them. He wrote recently on the 26th of April. Yeah, that is good. He wrote on the 26th of April, things have been happening folks in the last week or two that is not good. This insanity has to stop. Yeah, he wrote that three US Marshals had quote, put a restraining order on our church door. So that's kind of like Martin Luther. So I guess maybe that's our reform.

We bleached it away, but they seem serious about it. This story is developing and unfortunately you and I are going to wind up talking about the bleach church again. I know. We might never stop doing updates on the bleach church. And it's our penance for all the machetes stuff. It is. We made a lot of money. Yeah. So it's our penance. The universe is a motherfucker.

I will say the FDA has supported and approves of machetes as a treatment for any and all ailments. It is the only one true medicine. So buy a machete today and swing it in a wide arc around your body when you go out. And I guarantee you will not get close enough to anyone to spread COVID-19. That's the beauty of a machete. That's facts. Uh-oh. Do we die? No.

No, we're all just fucking bummed out. Yeah. So Billy, do you have anything you would like to plug? Promote? That part. Oh, yes. Yeah, sorry. You can follow me at Billy Wayne Davis on Twitter and Instagram.

And then that's where I'll post any new information. And I have a new podcast called Grown Local, which is about the people and places of the cannabis communities around our country. First season is about Eugene, Oregon. Awesome. Yay. Robert, do you have anything that you would like to plug or promote? I have a podcast called The Women's War, which is about a trip I took to Syria that wound up being the most inspiring and least depressing thing that has happened to me in the last three or four years. And I think it provides an inspiring roadmap for how society could be rebuilt in the face of collapse in a positive and non-toxic direction that might be healthier than a lot of what we're doing right now.

So people should take a listen, take a gander. I also want to note that I have currently this week launched a fundraiser for there is an organization in Portland, the Portland Diaper Bank, that is attempting to provide diapers to low income mothers, basically people who can't afford diapers because they're expensive and need a lot of them for babies. Normally, they're able to collect funds to do this for a year. But they have recently as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic had trouble getting donations from within Portland. When I started the fundraiser this morning, there were about 10,700 raised of their $25,000 goal for the year. And that's a year of diapers for low income, largely single mothers in Portland. They're now almost to 13,000. So please, if you go to GoFundMe and type in COVID-19 response and diaper need, you will find the GoFundMe.

Also, if you go to my Twitter profile, I write okay, okay, two letters, you will find my pinned tweet has a link to the GoFundMe. So please, consider donating, help them out. They could really use it. It's a good cause. There's a lot of necessary causes, honestly, right now. But poor mothers being able to provide diapers to their babies is a good thing. It's a single problem that can be solved by the people who listen to the show, and that would be one less problem in the world. So please, COVID-19 response and diaper need on GoFundMe.

Yay. Yay. That's the episode. Everybody have a good rest of your day and wash your hands and don't drink bleach. Yeah, avoid drinking bleach. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a little bit. Maybe a scaly.

If you're gonna be like a drug test or something coming up. I just, I just don't do that, guys, I just guess. Well, that's the episode Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations in the first season We're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests It involves a cigar smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse and inside his hearse was like a lot of goods But our federal agents catching bad guys or creating them He was just waiting for me to set the date the time and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen

Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science and The wrongly convicted pay a horrific price Two death sentences in a life without parole my youngest I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian trained astronaut that he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow

Hoping to become the youngest person to go to space Well, I ought to know because I'm Lance Bass And I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut Who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down With the Soviet Union collapsing around him. He orbited the earth for 313 days that changed the world Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts