Behind the Bastards - The Second Democratic Debate: Too Many Jebs

Episode Date: August 2, 2019

Robert is joined by Katy Stoll and Cody Johnston to discuss The Second Democratic Debate. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse look like a lot of guns. But are federal agents catching bad guys or creating them? He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian-trained astronaut?

That he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know, because I'm Lance Bass. And I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space. With no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the Earth for 313 days that changed the world.

Listen to The Last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Evans. This is not an episode of Behind the Bastards, but it's running in Plugged In to Behind the Bastards. This is an episode of Katie and Cody and I talking about the second set of Democratic debates as a prelude for our election year podcast, which will be a fun weekly podcast about the worst year of all of our lives and with a title vaguely similar to that.

Titles still in flux, but it's going to be something like that. It's going to be really good. It's going to be great. It's going to be better than the year. It is going to be better than the year. Damn sure. Anyway, here's the podcast. I have been on a lot of planes.

Robert literally got off a plane and then drove to the office to drop off of stuff and then drove to my house. And I don't know when was the last time you slept. Well, other than my couch briefly. The last time I had a full night's sleep was in Iraq, so it's been a minute. Tasty. I mean, I have so many questions about that, but that's not what we're here for tonight. We're here to talk about the debates.

Politics. Politics. Yes. Sweet. The best kind of politics. Hot. Sexy. Moist.

You had me. Wiery. Gristle-filled. Well, I like politics. I'm OK with the word moist, but not when used in the sexual connotation. Like I think moist is a perfectly wonderful word to use when talking about cake. Yeah. Cake.

Chicken. Well, sure. But I think in the context of the other words I was saying, we were all picturing kind of Joe Biden's waddle. Sure. Was that what was in y'all's head? Oh, yeah. When you said moist?

I'm almost always thinking of Joe Biden's waddle. Yeah. Cody, you just got in last night. It's true. So you're also out of it. I'm pretty tired. I've been around the longest. I've been back for a few days, but I'm also out of it.

So this will be fun. Ooh. So just like the front runner of the Democratic Party, we have all been going for too long to properly do our jobs today. Yeah. Yeah. We haven't learned a lesson from times past when it proved to be a bad idea to go too hard.

We should have taken Elizabeth Warren up on her offer to host the episode. I know. I know. That was a real mistake. So step aside, let the generation. If we're lucky, she'll call in like she does with her donor calls. But let's talk about the debates, you guys. That's what we're here.

That's the magic that we're here to discuss. Who did you come away from liking? Who surprised you? All of that. I mean, Cory Booker had some great moments. Honestly, truly. Yeah. Not a big Cory Booker fan, but he had some really solid.

He's a good debater. He surprised me tonight. I was really impressed with him all evening long. I guess I wasn't. I mean, loved what James Lee said about climate change. I'm glad he's doing what he's doing. I think if he wasn't there, they wouldn't have talked about climate change nearly enough. No.

In some cases, probably not at all. I think of all of the people on that stage. He might be the only one doing like a kind of noble thing, which is just like, well, I'm just going to get up there and shout about how the planets die. Yeah. Absolutely. A little more, a more focused Mike Gravel. Yeah.

Like he knows that he's not winning. He's there to specifically talk about something and talk about it well. Maybe just swing for a position in the cabinet so we can actually do that work. Hold people to task. Yeah. I would love to see him in the cabinet. Here's what I was frustrated by with the climate change conversations, and that would be the moderators.

I mean, I guess I was frustrated with them throughout the whole thing. But specifically with climate change, this is important. And you're up there interrupting people halfway through how they're actually explaining what they're planning to do. It makes me crazy. Yeah. I think in 2023 before the next election, if there are more elections, we need to have an election to decide who's going to moderate the future fucking debates because zero of

the people they've brought forward to so far have been any good at it. Not very good. Not very good. No. Really frustrating to watch in general. It's not hard. No. Just ask them questions.

And then if you have to re-ask the question, which they did a few times. Yeah, they followed up some way. But also like, I don't know, there were a few times, more so last night, I think tonight maybe, of like, I keep thinking of this moment where someone said something specific about Elizabeth Warren, and she was like, she literally like raised her hand. Like she was like, I kind of please, I need to, I need to like respond to that. That's not true. I need to respond.

She kept saying that and they would not let her do it. They did a couple times, but yeah, no, I agree with you completely. It's frustrating, especially since it takes like a good 15 minutes to even get the show started. And they're, they always end 15 minutes early. So it's not really a three hour debate. There's 22 people. They also go a lot to like, like they'll go to Yang.

Way too much. Well, so I think it's frustrating when they go to people like Yang and like even Inslee, and they give them like 15 seconds. They really like, you can tell that they have way less time to even respond or answer direct questions. That's frustrating too. Like if you're going to have 20 people on stage, give them the time that they need. You know?

Yeah. Yeah. I do agree. Who else impressed you in a surprising way? In a surprising way. Well, okay. So let's talk about Marianne Williams and maybe, I mean, because I mean, I tweeted about this. I don't think anybody thinks that I would vote for her.

I do not consider her a serious candidate. I have great issues with things she's said and done in the past, but I did appreciate a lot of the stuff she said up there. The least important of which was her specifically saying like, I'm starting to think that some of you people on stage aren't actually Democrats. I was like, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was really important to say.

I'm glad someone actually said that. Well, I mean, like, yeah, no, I think it is. So that's, I liked that, but you guys have been talking about some of the conversation online about Marianne Williams. And so let's, let's dig in on that for a minute. I mean, our conversation started with me saying I wouldn't, I could see her winning. Yeah. Just because I couldn't see Trump winning and kind of looked at him with the same sort

of mirth that I was initially looking at Marianne Williamson with. And I don't want to, I hope that doesn't happen. She's not like polling as well as he is, which you pointed out, Katie, but like. Yeah. He pulled really well early on. She's reaching out for the same, like the, the mirror mirror images of the parts of the, of the liberal psyche that Trump was reaching out, you know, for, of the conservative psyche. Like it, on the right, it's like outright fascism that he was pulling from.

And on the left, it's a space woo or bullshit, which is like the left wing equivalent of the rights genocide, right? And she's like a, she's got this populist message, especially when she ends with, I'm the only one that can bring that was constant cryptic references to health care. Yeah. She's not saying what you know, she thinks, which is that she's talking about, right? And just sort of positive thinking and like there's, you know, something can be said for the value of positive thinking, not much, but that's not why we're here and not much.

And I, there's, so there, and for it from what I gather most of her career, there is a grifting aspect to it. And part of being a grifter is that some of the stuff you say is really true, which is why it resonates so much. And that's why sometimes during the debate last night, I was like, fuck, yeah, yes, Marianne. Yes. Oh my God.

Yeah. Because what she's saying is true. But then there's all this stuff around it that's like, well, you shouldn't be the president. So when I watched, I had a, I had a similar, I pivot to her because we were talking about Janesley and like, I kind of see her role on that stage is in a similar, but very different, you know, things that she's talking about and different things. But because I don't take her seriously as a candidate, I just am like, appreciate somebody being up there and saying some stuff that you're like, yeah, well, someone needed to

say it and no one else was, she also talked about reparations, reparations of the election stuff. That was great. And also in lobby or environmental justice brought up there's some things, things that she brought up that no one else was willing to bring up. And when, so we're talking about the NRA and going back and forth about who has the worst standing with the NRA. And she says like, yeah, that's well and good.

But you know, money in politics, money from corporations is like the disease of this country. And how many of these people on stage have been taking money from? Yeah. Corporations. And yes, please, more of that kind of conversation right now. We need people to be thinking about that. Not that it's going to change right away, but like say that on national TV. If she didn't exist outside of the debates, she'd be in the upper 30% of candidates for

me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If she didn't, if the rest of her life wasn't a thing. Yeah, absolutely. There's also this sort of movement around her that sort of started out ironic and is sort of morphed into more genuine and some of it is coming from.

And I was talking about this earlier with you and I still don't know exactly what my problem is with it. But there's a lot of conservative pundits and like these sort of trolly Republicans who are really into her and it's partly ironic and it's partly genuine, but it's all horse shit. And part of it seems like they're just trying to lift her up so they can sort of destroy the Democratic Party in the same way that Trump did. And part of it's like they heard some of her message, I think does resonate with them.

Because it's true, but ultimately they can't wait to vote for Donald Trump no matter what. So I just, I, it really bothers me that it's this mix of irony and earnestness and just really bullshit trolling and it's going to happen more and more and it really bothers me. It's mostly trolling. It's mostly trolling. But it's there. I think the primary person she's going to cannibalize votes from is Andrew Yang.

Because I think there's kind of the same candidate, like different shades of the same candidate. We were talking about the same kind of problems, like the deep-rooted problems. And like Andrew Yang, like a lot of his early support was like a mix of kids wanting to just be able to like play video games and live on $1,000 a month and thinking the name Yang was funny. Yeah, Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang.

Yang. Yang. Yang. Yang. the votes yet. I doubt it's, I just am so worried after 2016 that I won't say it's impossible. Yeah, I think I see a lot of that. And I don't think there's a need to worry. I think it's good to have her there to say the things that she's saying, because maybe some of the more legitimate candidates will pick it up and be like, oh, actually, oh, yeah, she's right. I think that too

now. But like, Trump definitely was pulling way better, was way more popular beforehand. And then that field, if you think about the Republican field in 2016, 2015, it was pretty abysmal. Like the other person was Ted Cruz. And they're actually like viable candidates. Don't forget Jeb. I have not forgotten Jeb. None of us have forgotten Jeb. We were frequently comparing candidates on stage to Jeb this evening. There's a lot of Jebs. There's Hickenlooper Jeb, Delaney Jeb, Michael Bennett, Michael Bennett, the guy whose name I forget every time. The other guy that's not Michael Bennett already forgot it. Nope. Nope. Yeah, the guy, you know, you know, the guy. There are too many white too many white people last night

to keep track of. Good thing. Good thing. Endsley put his glasses on. I mean, seriously, he put those glasses on to distinguish himself from all the other women from them. Like there are actual candidates up there that people gravitate towards way more than they would accidentally sort of because they're real, you know. All right. Well, I want to say right now, my most important takeaway from the night, which is my realization that both Inslee and Andrew Yang have the same rough silhouette of a human-shaped thumb. They're both shaped like thumbs. They're both thumbmen. Incredibly important. And thank you for being brave enough to share that with us. Thank you for praising my bravery. This is going to be in the archives of America. Yeah. This is for

posterity, y'all. I want to talk about some more about CNN, but specifically, so last night, obviously, it was a gang up on Biden. But that was mostly tonight. It was tonight. That's what I mean. And that was mostly generated from people on stage coming not to fuck around. But last night, so many of the questions that came to the candidates were attacking Bernie. You know, like the moderators. The moderators. They were like, Elizabeth Warren, you're a capitalist. Does that make you a safer choice than Bernie? Or like, do you think that America's ready for, do you think like the idea of socialism makes people afraid of Sanders? You know, what do you think about Sanders? There's plan to go to all electric

cars. And even tonight, there were questions about Sanders. And that made me so angry. Katie's a Bernie pro now, everybody. It's really interesting, like how one sided the aggression from the moderators was last night. It was like, they really were just like going after Bernie. They were trying to get everyone to shit talking. And it's yeah. Yeah. I'm glad people didn't seem to take the bait because it's not really super dangerous at the stage to alienate Bernie Sanders support. And they still they still like, you know, disagreed. And there were some some scuffles, but like the framing was really frustrating. Katie, I saw your tweet last night and I was like, oh, man, even Katie's like really pissed about

this, which like it's so it's so blatant. The bias there and the way they're framing the questions and that they just do not want him to be the president. Yeah. And a little bit worn to, but I think they feel like she's a little safer. And well, they they straight up said that in the question. Right. Exactly. It's like they're like, we gotta do one. I guess it'll have to be her. They're picking questions that are shaping the narrative, like shaping how people are perceiving the candidates. And they know it. And it was wild. Yeah. And they seem straight up irritated and combative with the candidates. Millionaires. Everyone asking the questions and every one of these debates is a millionaire. Millionaires funded by billionaires? Yeah, it's

this is one of the things that I think is maybe a rye with the situation. I wonder if maybe we would have no problems with moderators if they just picked a bunch of like crusty middle class political journalists who've been like fucking slinging shit in the DC press corps for the last 10 years and like had them just get them like moderately drunk and then wired on speed and let them ask whatever questions come to mind for three hours. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's the idea that they they're just like, yeah, you, you, you guys, you guys can do it. Yeah. You'll ask all the questions that are going to shape the nation and everybody. I mean, there's been a lot of talk about this online. I was thinking about it last night. I mean, even I think it was Warren started

calling it out last night was how a lot of these questions were basically Republican talking points and it really felt and I know that last night was supposed to be the liberal stage when because you had, you know, Warren and Bernie there, but they were surrounded by a bunch of people that were being pulled even further to the right with them on stage. And it was very transparent that we've got these two very different parties up there on stage and even the ads for it, even the ads. The moderates go after them. Yeah. It was just really, it felt very, very blatant in a way that it hadn't been before. But yes, this idea that like they are throwing conservative talking points, they're like kind of doing the work for people. Like I don't, some of that's the Democratic party.

Some of that. Yeah. And some of it doesn't bother me. I don't mean all of them, but just every so often like the way they're framing this question is like leading into a different kind of narrative. I think, so I think the man tonight, so many of the people on stage used the phrase Republican talking point. Yeah. Very frustrating. But that's because they got it from last night. They got it from because a little bit of Warren mentioned it. Because that was one of the big applause lines last night. Yeah. And it was a very, it was very pointed specific example. And it made sense in the context of the conversation. And then it caught on and then everyone said tonight. There are some arguments that were made a lot last night too that were like,

that's just something you would hear on a panel. Yeah. From Fox News. Like there's one, one of the guys, again, I can't remember his name, was like, why would you say you're gonna, why do you say you're gonna pay for, you know, illegal immigrants health care when there are people struggling to pay for their own? That's like, well, it's medical for all there. They won't be struggling for their own. Like the framing of that is so on its face, ridiculous and nonsense, you'd hear it on like a Fox News panel. But there's some times when people are like, oh, the Republican talking points as a Republican talking point, it's okay to ask questions in that way because they're going to have to. Sure. They're going to be facing Donald Trump. They're

going to be facing like people on Fox News. Like they're, they're, it's okay sometimes to phrase questions in that way to see how they would handle it. I completely agree. Yeah. That was the next thing out. Okay. Yeah. I think using it tonight was like a little, a little too much. Like, don't ask me a question. Yeah. That's a Republican talking point. Yeah. I, yeah. I totally, I hear that. Yeah. I think that whenever you do a debate like this though, where you've got, you're splitting it up into two nights, the second night is always partly go, even if unconsciously going to be a response to the first night. Absolutely. And I think we've seen that with both debates. Yeah. Like the first night, you get a more genuine discussion of the issues,

which this was not as much of a no, this. Yeah. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you, Hey, let's start a coup. Back in the 1930s, a Marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the U S and fascism. I'm Ben Bullock and I'm Alex French. In our newest show, we take a darkly comedic and occasionally ridiculous deep dive into a story that has been buried for nearly a century. We've tracked down exclusive historical records. We've interviewed the world's foremost experts. We're also bringing you cinematic historical recreations of moments left out of your history books. I'm Smedley Butler and I got a lot to say

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It's 1991. And that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit when he gets a message that down on earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union, is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space. 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This was an attack show tonight. Oh, I did love all of the Joe Biden. We can talk about some of that. Some of your, what were your best Biden throwdown moments? I mean, there's lots of other stuff I want to talk to that is more important.

Him saying, go easy on me at the beginning. Yeah, that was sad. He's like, Joe, you've been in this game, what, 50 years? Yeah. You know, that's not how it works. Right. Well, you can't mess it up. I think that my favorite was Castro's. Some of us learned from the past moment or whatever. That was real good. That was really good. It was good. I thought this isn't an attack on Joe. I mean, it is, but it's not someone attacking him. But like the book ends of the very beginning, him saying, go easy on me. And then the last thing he says is, if you support me, go to Joe 30330,

which is not a website. He meant to say, text Joe. He left out the text. He meant to say, text, join. But also it's supposed to be join. And they just changed it to Joe with a tweet, but it's supposed to be joined. I think that's so funny. The first thing he says is go easy on me. And the last thing he says is just he's not, he's not going easy on himself. I mean, he, I felt, we were talking about this earlier. I felt bad for him in the way that like, yes, when you're watching the office, you cringe and you feel bad for the person up there because he was,

I mean, he definitely had more like energy, I would say, than the last, uh, but he was switched energy. It wasn't, yeah, but he was stuttering. He was all over the place. He was not responding. He was being, I mean, watching the debate, I felt like his debate prep with a lot of him coming in and smiling and wasting time talking to his staffers and then being like, don't worry guys, I got it. You know what I mean? Like he's like, I've been doing this for 30 years. You know, I've lost many presidential elections. His, um, I really wish if I'd been a little bit more quick, I would have taken down a couple of his answers and tried to

diagram the actual sentences he spoke because they were almost always not quite nonsense, but like not sentences, right? Not complete thoughts coming out of his head. Yeah. Like to the point where it was concerning to me. Yeah. Right. Like you listen, you like get it, but like they're not, I get what you're trying to say. If you read it, you'd be like, wait, what? He does not have a poker face. Whenever somebody starts to talk to him in a way that was aggressive, if you could just see his face fall, it was so sad. He's been so used to being respected because no one thought he was going to run again. I know everybody was like, okay, we can bear with him. But it was like,

I always felt like his heart was breaking just a little bit every time someone started to beat him up. I'm laughing about it and run for president. The other people like him though. He was still like him. Still pulling on the wall. Yeah. He's still pulling very well. It's unbearable. The other moment, this is, I actually, I really liked the gala. No, it was Gabbard and Kamala when Gabbard was calling Kamala out on her record, which was really important. That was really bold. That was important thing that need to be talked about. Kamala just sidestepped that. She only talked about, she did not respond in any capacity. She had two opportunities and she did not, which should be enough to confirm that it's all true.

Yeah. If you can't directly address it, then there's a reason. If you missed that, rewatch it. Tulsi Gabbard tearing into Kamala's terrible record as a prosecutor was a pretty sweet moment. Do you know much about it, her background? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, just, she was the, there was a lot of ugly stuff around like trans people and like not allowing people to transition and stuff and. And using prison labor. Yeah, using prison labor. Holding like what, imprisoning parents for kids. Truancy. Yeah. I think that she specifically talked, brought up tonight, how she like blocked some evidence that would have saved a person from death row. Yeah. She was a really ugly, like California is a state with a fucked up judicial system

because there's 40 million people here and she didn't make it less fucked up. So anyway, I really, I mean, I'm not a Tulsi Gabbard fan. No, she's a monster. But I really appreciated that. She took a trip to Syria, paid for by essentially a fascist like an actual fascist organization that was allied with the Assad regime and met with Bashar al-Assad, the greatest mass murderer of our time. And then later in interviews refused to call him a war criminal after his many war crimes. And she visited after he had gassed. She like sat down with this guy after he'd gassed thousands and thousands of thousands of people to death. She has some weird, like Hindu nationalist fascist views of her own. And like,

she played it well when she was like attacked for like the anti-gay stuff in the first debate. Yeah, I thought her response was pretty good. Like the whole, I grew up and stuff. But like, she came from a pretty gross, evil cult background. And she has not dissociated herself fully from it in her actual life. There's some very concerning things about Tulsi Gabbard's background and beliefs, not the least of which is the fact that she was willing to let a fascist group take her to go hang with Bashar al-Assad. I mean, I don't want to tell you guys what to do, but don't vote for her. Yeah, I'm not a big Tulsi Gabbard fan, but she kind of nailed hitting Kamala Harris. Yeah, no, she did a good job. I think no one else was willing or no one was

going to go anywhere near that. Yeah, they didn't want to touch that. But someone had to. Yeah, it was a real one of those onion article, like the worst person, you know, just made a great point. I'm waiting for different, not match-ups, but like fewer people, so more people can have conversation. Like that was great. I would like to see Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden talk to each other. That's all I want. I was so mad, although Joe Biden didn't need anybody else ganging up on him tonight. That is true. Joe Biden need that pants like a fucking, yeah. But I did really like, I thought, even though it was definitely framed by CNN, terribly, because CNN sucks, of like the progressives defend their mother from the

moderates and all that kind of garbage. But it was very cool to see Bernie and Elizabeth Warren up there together doing that. And they weren't throwing each other under the bus. They really weren't. No, they were backing each other up pretty well. There are a few moments where you can see them stare at each other and get like exchange looks like, can you believe these people? And like it was clear that they had each other's backs. And gracefully responding. So like at one point, I can't think of this specific example, but you know, a question to Elizabeth about like, well, what about this element of Bernie's plan and her being like, no, that's not what it is. This is what I voted for. I mean, she still made it about her, but like making it clear that like,

no, we're on the same side here. And like, you're wrong. You're misinterpreting what we were saying. I want to talk about immigration stuff. I love immigration stuff. You love immigration stuff, because that's a big topic in our country in the debates. And a lot of the Democratic candidates don't love immigration. Joe Biden wants to cherry pick races. It's that I'm that likes that like breezed by and I was like, wait, did he just say we cherry pick like different cultures? That's what makes us strong, Cody. Unbelievable. Is our racial cherry pickers and like anyone with a PhD gets an automatic green card. I am so frustrated and appalled by the amount of people on that stage that just said the we need to just need a new

new president in the office and that'll fix the kids in cages. Like, no, you're, you're missing the entire point. You are not that stupid. The point of decriminalizing immigration or illegal immigration isn't a specific. Yes, it's about getting kids out of cages. Yes, it's about allowing people to come here seeking asylum, but it's about protecting their human rights. And Castro did a great job talking about it. And also again, and he did it last time, hammering home that going that it's about sending aid. It's about creating programs that help make the countries that they're leaving safer and more productive. No, no, no, no. Biden really hit that one. Like he's credit. Biden repeatedly mentioned giving

money to these. But he said that that's what he did. He said he said he said that we did give. He was defending himself. We gave a lot of money, but like also I don't like that's great. I want to know how that money is spent. It's not just about because we look at Puerto Rico. Obviously, that's a part of our country. Technically, although they can't vote for president and have representation, but giving money and like then it's mismanaged within that local government. So it's not just about that. Unfortunately, in my perspective, and I'm hoping that's not too naive, but I need to hear people saying more specific. So him saying, we did a good job. We gave the money actually doesn't cut it for me. No, it doesn't cut it. But I'm glad that even

from Biden, the framing of we owe these countries something, that's a positive step. Yeah, I do agree with that. But that was like when I was watching, that was like. But like the idea, yeah, the idea that like, well, there's to be a new president. Yeah. And no one's like, but who after? Yeah, well, who's the president after that? What would they what would they do? That whole section of the debate where like, everyone was trying to explain to Joe Biden why that was a bad idea. I mentioned during reminded me of like arguments I've had with elderly family members at like Thanksgiving, where like all of the kids will try to be explaining something like marijuana or like, like, like why, why a reform that every young person is behind, like is a good idea to

like an elderly uncle be like, but what about this poorly thought out point? Yeah. I mentioned this during the debate. I don't know if anyone ever touched on it. But like, has anyone said that they will not only like legalize marijuana, but also release everyone that's in prison for it? Nobody said release everyone that's there was a lot of talk about legalizing marijuana. Yeah. But nobody was like, in addition to that, like the people that are that have been fucked over in their life for this. Okay. Waiting for that. It'll, it'll happen. Yeah, waiting for that. Maybe Beto will write in on the skateboard and say, Oh, I was about to say, we haven't mentioned Beto 01. I think we're all very close to being done with Beto forever. Oh, I already am, bro. Like,

my God, at this point, I don't even want that. But yeah, sure. Run for Senate. Maybe you'll win. I think he might have lost it by now. Yeah. Just because his campaign was so, so bad and it exposed him as so weak, such a callow youth. Yeah. I mean, I, I truly, well, not truly, but part of me was like, Oh, I hope he uses his closing statement to exit the race. Yeah. I was, yeah, I was like, I could just see that happening right now. Similarly, I was, I'm waiting for anyone on stage because like, obviously a lot of people that are up there are like, I'm just here for like, maybe I'll get a cabin position. I'll probably write a book next year about this whole thing. Marianne Williams. Oh, for sure. That's what she's doing.

But like, waiting for someone to be like, if I'm elected, I will abolish the presidency. Like in the context of that conversation, it's like, well, if the president changes, then everything will be good. It's like, well, no, maybe we just shouldn't have that. Sure. You know, weren't they debating having three presidents or something when the founding fathers were framing the constitution? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's actually a pretty good idea. Yeah. Too bad. That didn't happen. And they also what suggested like rewriting the constitution every 17 years. So, yep. No, no, Cody, don't you know, everything they wrote back then is the way it has to be forever. Oh, okay. That makes sense. That's, that's what our founding fathers

envisioned when they created a system that specifically included ways to alter the constitution. Yeah, they were hella psychic. Yeah. The things that I know about time, the world, the world stays the same. And so the rules should stay the same. The thing that I know about the founding fathers is that they all agreed 100% on everything that they did. They agreed everything. They didn't have any bad ideas. They were all really good people too. All really good people with the same attitudes towards the rights of human beings and who counted as a human being. Yeah. Yeah. I love that about them. I love that. I like how, yeah, how the best idea for a government was thought up a few hundred years ago. And that's it.

That's it. We're done. Was thought up by people who didn't know how to make sure the water they drank didn't make them poop themselves to death. And who statistically a significant amount of these guys died from pooping themselves to death. Like what, at least a third of our founding fathers. Yeah. There were a lot of dumb questions in both night. And on. Oh, Bernie thinks this. Why is that insane and evil? Yeah. I jotted down tonight. I don't know why. In hindsight, maybe it's not as dumb, but I rolled my eyes. I was like, who's the best candidate to heal the racial divide in America? Because I don't think that a candidate, a single candidate, can do that. I don't know. I mean. It just was like such an inane, like let's actually

talk about something more specific than, than something broad. Yeah. How are you going to fix it? How are you going to fix it all? Are you going to fix 250 years of institutionalized racism? And although I think Marianne has the best discussion of. Yeah. Yeah. She talks about that really well. Reparations being talked. Yeah. That's what. And the environmental justice, I think you're like. Because my next question was like, this is dumb, but who do you guys think? Right. I let it out. Gillibrand was like. She was intersectional feminist. And I'm not going to, you know, I don't think like, you know, Senator Booker and Harris, that like they should have the responsibility to do this. If I'm elected president, I'll explain to all the white women

why they have privilege. It's like. I was like. Are you saying that you should do it? Because you're white? Well, she's saying like, she says that she doesn't want. Well, what she was actually saying. I mean, yeah, that's what she's saying. She's being intersectional. She's saying like, white women, it's our job to like also be. Yeah. No, I get it. But like just it seemed like framed like. I'll do it. I'll talk to him. I got this, y'all. Gillibrand clearly had two or three really good answers prepared that she was really comfortable with and that she delivered well. And everything else, even if the meat of what she was saying was good, was very awkward. I think just because she's not a good think on her feet. She wavers. She's not. She's not like Cory Booker.

I don't think had everything charted out ahead of time, I think he's just got one of those kind of brains. Yeah, he's very good on his feet. He's really impressed me tonight. Yeah. Not so much tonight. I thought it was very low energy tonight. She seemed very, very tired. Low energy Harris. Low energy Harris and and sleepy. Sleepy. Sleepy. Michael Bennett. He did look sleepy. What the fuck? Why is Michael Bennett? So who can we lose? I want to spend a hot second talking about Steve Bullock because who that's the guy I was thinking of. I was trying to think of his name. Thank you. That's the fourth job. That's the fourth job. Thank you. No, he is young Bradley Whitford and get out. Like there's something, everything about him the way he talks. He's

got his eyebrows. He's new. He's made the fundraising goal this time. He's super corny. He was so bad. A full quarter of the candidates in these two nights were Jeb. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a stage full of Jebs. He was more entertaining than Jeb, but only because he's so laughable. He looks like I can see him in the 80s. I can see him being that little punk in his polo. See, his face is already for us. Steve Bullock. Steve Bullock. His face is Bullock and Bennett. That's why. Bullock, it sounds like a fucking cop drama that would have gotten canceled nine episodes in. And we haven't talked about Warren at all. Here's the thing about. All right. Show me his picture because I have forgotten that motherfuckers face. Which one? Bullock. Okay. Bennett, I remember.

Oh, that's Bullock. Yeah. Bennett's the one who looks like a, like a, a Charles Schultz drawing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He looks like Bennett. Bennett looks like. He just got back from Kenabunkport. Bennett looks like Charlie Brown all grown up. Yeah. Sadder. His yacht shoes. It looks like Charlie Brown who never got over Snoopy's death and hasn't been able to pet another dog since. Snoopy died? Well, yeah. All dogs go to heaven, of course. Yes, of course. Yeah, we could lose, we could lose the Jebs. I wouldn't want to lose Inslee, which I think, I think, I think he's, he was sort of lumped in with the Jebs at first. Which I get. No, but I think he has a legitimate noble mission of just shouting it about climate change to America. And like, he's actually like,

he's engaging to listen to. Yeah, he's a good speaker. I wouldn't put him in the class of Jeb for many reasons, actually. He had some good stuff to say about white nationalism and the threats therein, which as the governor of Washington, he fucking opted. Yeah, he should probably be a little familiar with that. What would you do if a secret cabal of the most powerful folks in the United States told you, Hey, let's start a coup. Back in the 1930s, a Marine named Smedley Butler was all that stood between the US and fascism. I'm Ben Bullock and I'm Alex French. In our newest show, we take a darkly comedic and occasionally ridiculous deep dive into a story that has been buried for nearly a century. We've tracked down exclusive historical records. We've interviewed

the world's foremost experts. We're also bringing you cinematic historical recreations of moments left out of your history books. I'm Smedley Butler and I got a lot to say. For one, my personal history is raw, inspiring and mind blowing. And for another, do we get the mattresses after we do the ads or do we just have to do the ads? From iHeart podcast and School of Humans, this is Let's Start a Coup. Listen to Let's Start a Coup on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you find your favorite shows. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science? The problem with forensic science in the criminal legal system today is that it's an awful lot of forensic and not an awful lot of science.

And the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price. Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. I'm Molly Herman. Join me as we put forensic science on trial to discover what happens when a match isn't a match and when there's no science in CSI. How many people have to be wrongly convicted before they realize that this stuff's all bogus. It's all made up. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lance Bass, and you may know me from a little band called NSYNC. What you may not know is that when I was 23, I traveled to Moscow to train to become the youngest person to go to space. And when I was there,

as you can imagine, I heard some pretty wild stories. But there was this one that really stuck with me about a Soviet astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. It's 1991. And that man Sergei Krekalev is floating in orbit. When he gets a message that down on earth, his beloved country, the Soviet Union is falling apart. And now he's left defending the Union's last outpost. This is the crazy story of the 313 days he spent in space. 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I thought Mike Gravel got enough donors to be on the stage.

I believe he did. What happened? CNN happened. Oh, I was going to say like a bottle of rum happened. Mike Gravel just didn't pick up. Mike Gravel just like drinking, drinking with the Gravel teams. And I know it wouldn't be a cell phone ringing. It would be an old school pager. The sight of a desk buzzing until it fell into the trash. That's how he tweets. By pager. I was just paging the Pentagon papers. I was like, we didn't quite finish. I want to just bring up real quick something that I've got civil rights stuff that Biden's whole defense of his civil rights record was basically like, well, Obama hired me. Obama was black. It was literally I have a black friend and he's the president.

It was shocking. I was like, that's what you have to say, bro. It's amazing. Yeah. So maybe he is the one that's best suited to heal our racial development. Clearly that I have a black friend. Didn't someone say like, Biden, why do you always take credit for the Obama thing, but then reject the bet like the Obama things you don't like? Yeah. Someone said that, right? Yeah. Okay. Unless you said it was something that you read online. I'm saying he wasn't there tonight. It's not bullet. No, it wasn't bullet. It might have been. My, my gut is saying Cory Booker said it, but I don't know. Oh, it was Cory Booker. My gut is so smart. Way to go. We haven't talked at all about Elizabeth Warren tonight.

We also haven't talked about Cory Booker's brother, Kerry Booker. Weird looking. Okay. Now I've got to Google Kerry Booker. He just looks like a photo negative of his brother and it's unsettling. Is he running for president? No. No, no, no. Okay. It's just their names, I think. Oh, that's to me like, um, what is it? Steph Curry and Steph Curry? No, Steph Curry's brother has the same name as him. Um, sorry, but yeah, Elizabeth Warren. But let's talk about Elizabeth Warren. She did great. She did great. She always does great, you guys. She's very earnest and good answers. Visibly melted. She's also so good. Her lady

is swooning right now. Her and Bernie just like saying things that were accurate. I mean, that's nice. That was so nice to see. I know people are like worried about like, oh, if you go too far left in the modernist, the independence, I really like a Sanish Warren. The Republicans elected a fucking fascist. Like, are you going to tell me we can't elect Elizabeth Warren? Yeah. Who in any sane country would be like a slightly left of center? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's nonsense. And the way it's framed is very, very frustrating. Uh, but they're just so good together. Yeah. I want to see them run a presidential campaign, and I don't care who's do you think in whose VP Bernie would be VP. I think I think Bernie would

definitely choose her as his VP. Yeah. I don't know if Elizabeth Warren would pick him. I think she would probably be pressured by the Democratic Party to pick somebody else. I want Warren not Bernie. I know. I'm fine either way. As long as fine either way, as long as one of them is the presidential nominee. Uh, like, I don't know. I'd be fine with Castro as a presidential nominee, and fucking Sanders or Warren as his VP too. Like, maybe that's the smarter play. Oh, for me, it would be I, I could see Castro being VP. I don't see him as president. I think he might be a fucking hell of a barnstormer. I don't know that he's gotten the chance to like do that yet. Yeah. But I think he might have the potential to run that kind of a campaign. And even though

he's more of a moderate, I don't know. Like, that's not my suggestion or hope, but I could see him being a really solid presidential candidate. I get behind Castro for sure. He does speak well. And again, I said this to you guys earlier. I don't want to vote for, I don't want Kamala to be the president. Obviously, I'd vote for her if she was. But I do, I do think it'd be so fun to see her prosecute Donald Trump on a debate stage. I just want to see her shouting at him at a bus station when they're both like trapped on a 15 minute trip downtown and somebody films it on a cell phone. Like that's, that's what I want. Or I guess get someone in there that brings him in front of Congress and she can question him in that forum because that's what you want to see.

You want to see the impeachment stuff. Yeah. But I don't want to see her stopped after three minutes. I want to see her be allowed to do it. Very good at a job that I wish didn't exist. Yeah. Right. And it shouldn't be the president. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That shouldn't be the pipeline, the prosecutor to president pipeline. Well, are there any other, what are the things that you guys, did you want to talk about your takeaways from the last couple of nights? Which one is Klobuchar? She's the one that either looks like your mom's friend who was trying to be cool, but you didn't really want to be around. Or like maybe your freshman English teacher. See, Gillibrand meets that description too. She's a little too young to me. Yeah,

Gillibrand does meet that description. She reminds me of my English teachers. She reminds me of a senior AP English teacher. You're right. You're right. She's the person who would like walk you through the scarlet letter. And then you're, and when you don't turn something in on time, she'd be like, I'm just so disappointed in you. And you'd feel bad. And you would feel so bad. But also, you still wouldn't read Nathaniel Hawthorne. No, you wouldn't. And then you see her over summer at like a liquor store and you're like, fuck, that's sad. And she's just buying one enormous bottle of vodka. Yeah. Oh, I was going to say like Rose, but sure, vodka. Yeah. No, I think she's the hard drinking kind of English

teacher. Oh, bottle of vodka. And then you have a night. Put it in the coconut and make it all up. Summer, baby. And now you know, it was written about Kristen Gillibrand, presidential nominee. Real quick, just speak, you mentioned, we're mentioning teachers, talking about teachers, and I don't want to pass this by because I, she, she said it in passing during the debate, Elizabeth Warren was talking about how she always wanted to be a teacher. And I just, I just want only teachers and nurses to be. Yeah. Yes. To lead the country. Like teachers, nurses and ER doctors. Yeah. And like, I know, I think a lot of ER doctors have a drug problem. That's fine. FDR was drunk the whole of World War two.

We, you know, she obviously worked with like special needs kids and stuff, but I, I just want teachers to run for president and to be president. And I, that's why you hear that teachers that are listening. It's one of the reasons I really, really like her is because she has that vibe and she has that drive. And that's where a lot of her, well, also her compassion comes from. And a lot of also her effectiveness because teachers know how to explain things. Yeah. And so she can like make a case and like make things clear. They know how to explain things and then they habitually look at things from other people's perspective, not because they consider every perspective equally valid, but because they're trying to understand where those people are coming from

in order to influence. Which means they know how to listen. Yeah. To actually listen. And I think she's using those skills really well. And I just had another thought that is gone. It's lost. I had too much. Oh, we haven't talked about Buttigieg. Oh yeah. We didn't talk about him. He had a good moment, but I forgot what it was because I haven't slept in days. It wasn't the one where he said, you want to combat veteran grilling. Oh my God. Buttigieg, come on. There are a few moments like that from a bunch of different candidates who were like, if you nominate me, I can say this to Donald Trump on the debate stage. It's like, anyone can say that to him. You don't need to be like a thousand people a day on Twitter say that

to him. It's never made a difference. It's like everybody's like, I need to have that came with one prepared sound bite of what they would say to Donald Trump just to remind everybody that we're not Donald Trump. We know that. Yeah. Oh, deal with the Warren thing. She also values children so much. And it's why one of her main things is like the childcare and like guaranteed childcare and pre-k and all that stuff. And it's the kind of thing where it's like any, of course, if you treat every child equally and give every single child the opportunity that they need to thrive, then your society in general will be so much better a few years later because of what you've done for every single child. And she understands that and I love her for it. Yes. But anyway, Pete.

You know what? Actually, I just remembered the worst answer I think of the debates was actually one of Castro's. And because he's a smooth talker, it kind of slid past no one hit him on it. But it was when he was talking about Flint and he was like, when I was the director of health and human services or when I was the director of HUD, we dealt with that. And then he kind of pivots the fact like it's still not dealt with, but like he didn't directly, he was like, yeah, that was on you. And it's still a problem. And then I was also there six weeks ago. And it's like, and was it good? Was it any better? Why don't you fill in the blanks? What did you do? What happened there? There's a lot of glossing over. Yeah, it was like, he's like, he's very smooth. But it was

also like, yeah, you really are someone I should be angry at over that. Right. Last night, the question about Flint was that it's still a problem is that it's still fucked up and you didn't do your job, Julian. It's frustrating how many people step to sidestep questions and just dodge it. There is no follow up moderators. This is never, never press anybody ever so often they would press somebody on something. But again, the moderators aren't journalists. Right. Right. Yeah. And that's what you want. Yeah. You want people can you get an answer and be like, well, actually, as a journalist, I'm aware that you're lying or like you're not including the full context or something. Everybody should have like a big long half hour chunk of time with a journalist.

And the journalist, the journalist should get to throw two tomatoes per hour. Like the hard green ones. Yeah. Yeah. Every time they lie or whenever they choose. That'd be so satisfying. Politics would be so much better. But a jig. He's a contender. Yeah. Yeah. He's a contender in a way. I think that he's going to end up governor or whatever. But three of us are not particularly enthralled by him. I guess the reason I keep bringing him up is that I have a couple of friends who are not normally very politically engaged, who find him incredibly charismatic and inspiring. And I don't get that either. Yeah. But I know that he has had an impact on some people and that his rhetoric is appreciated by them.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't connect with that. But I do get it. Yeah. I don't have strong feelings about the guy one way or the other. I think he seems lovely that I'd love to have him as a friend. But he's not quite my politics. Yeah. I don't think he's been a great mayor. Yeah. Also, mayor is kind of a low rung job. It is wild to jump from that. Governor makes sense. Yeah. I can't remember what it was. He did have a couple of moments last night that were good. But I can't remember what they were specifically. You'd think that I'd have written it down. But I didn't. I believe he again was confronted with talking about, you know, racial issues. You know, he talks about cops and stuff. He's not great at actually like addressing it.

Not even just head on, but in general at all. He sort of sidesteps it a lot. And he's like, you know, we all we got problems. Yeah. Well, that reminds me to talk about DiBlasio in that moment. Oh, that fucking DiBlasio. The protesters chanting. Yeah. Yeah. What was he chanting? I heard that. Well, so during during Biden, I believe they were chanting the like three million, three million deportations. Yeah. They were chanting for Biden for DiBlasio and also Booker for some reason was a fire pentaleo. Yeah, they started chanting that during. But they started chanting that during Booker's. Well, the first time you could hear it faintly was DiBlasio. And then they really went whole hog for Booker for some reason. But then

also Jay Capra kept saying Eric Gardner. I know. Which really bothered me. Yeah, like you've got it. You've got to have that name written in front of you, man. And a city burned because of that. How can you not have that down? Yeah, that's nuts. But what was DiBlasio's response to that? It was basically like, oh, it's the Justice Department. The Federal Justice Department got in his way or like was slowing it down. He didn't answer. He didn't answer. Why isn't he fired? But I believe it was Gillibrand. He said I would have fired that cop. Yeah. And I like I like that. Straightforward. Those are I mean, those are usually the best answers. Like even when to Joe Biden's credit, I forget what the exact question was. If it was Inslee, I think, asking

about it. And then Joe was like, yes. And then they're like, oh, yeah, it was about getting rid of stopping these coal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just great. Those are the and that's what I love about Inslee being up there. He just made Joe Biden commit on stage in front of everybody that that's something he would do. Yeah, I think Inslee like justified his run for president with for sure with that moment. Yeah. Nothing else. Who do you want to see gone before the next debate? Oh, Williamson, Yang. Yeah. I don't need the Jebs. Beto. Yeah. Get rid of all the Jebs. I don't mind. So like, I don't know. It's it's it's frustrating because like the Williamson's and like Yang, the things they're talking about, I think, are issues that are important to talk

about. And if they're not there, no one is. I think we've gotten all we can get out of them. Yeah, that's the other and anything else would just be toxicity. And then it's like, OK, at this point, we're risking getting into something dangerous happening. We're going to get the political equivalent of toxic shock syndrome if we let them see. So like, here's a pitch, though. So like, those these are people who are like, every time you speak, you're saying something that's important that people need to hear. So what if they moderate one of the debates instead? That's a cool idea moderates. If the people that aren't in the race. Oh, yeah. So like Williamson will be a moderator and Yang will be a moderator and they can bring up these topics that are

important and sort of engage with the like candidates. I'm imagining Williamson grilling Joe Biden on the medicinal uses of crystals. Oh, God, that'd be so great for everybody. What a wholesome time that would be. What a bad time for him. That would be. So we've we've qualified a number of candidates as Jebs. Yeah. And I think we're all in agreement that Beto is not a Jeb, but is on the hierarchy of candidates is Beto above a Jeb or below a Jeb based on his inherent worth as as a candidate? Do we do we in our heads qualify him as above sub Jeb or or super? I think he's sub Jeb. I think he's sub Jeb. I think he's sub Jeb. I think he's worse than a Jeb. Yeah. Yeah. Not even worth. I'm so not even a Jeb. I am so thrilled that we all

agree on this, that there's not even any tension here. No, no, no exclamation point after Beto. Sub Jeb is such a funny way to describe someone. She's a real sub Jeb up there. I hopefully can turn Jeb's name into like a byword for a lame political candidate. Oh, we are. He's already taken off. Yeah. By the time this airs, we've already got Jeb and hard. We've already got merch in the pipeline. He really Jeb did. Oh, yeah. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining us, listening to us talk. You know what? You know, that's what podcasts are. Last, last time I gave last time I gave the wrong email address and then I had to get two email addresses. But here's where we're sending you. I know I you totally Biden. I biffed it. Biden

did worse. Jebs. Bidening around. It's worst year tips at gmail.com. Is that better or worse than a bunch of Jebs? Bidening around. The rails have gone off of this. Worst year tips at gmail.com if you want to send us questions or thoughts for our upcoming show, which we're definitely doing. It's true. Once we get some sleep. And remember, be a Jeb, not a Beto. At least be a Jeb. All right. No one wants to be a Jeb. Please be a Jeb. At least. Please be a Jeb. You don't need no Betos in here. Alphabet Boys is a new podcast series that goes inside undercover investigations. In the first season, we're diving into an FBI investigation of the 2020 protests. It involves a cigar-smoking mystery man who drives a silver hearse. And inside his hearse was like a lot of guns. But

our federal agents catching bad guys or creating them. He was just waiting for me to set the date, the time, and then for sure he was trying to get it to happen. Listen to Alphabet Boys on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if I told you that much of the forensic science you see on shows like CSI isn't based on actual science and the wrongly convicted pay a horrific price? Two death sentences and a life without parole. My youngest, I was incarcerated two days after her first birthday. Listen to CSI on trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know Lance Bass is a Russian trained astronaut? That he went through training in a secret facility outside Moscow, hoping to

become the youngest person to go to space? Well, I ought to know because I'm Lance Bass. And I'm hosting a new podcast that tells my crazy story and an even crazier story about a Russian astronaut who found himself stuck in space with no country to bring him down. With the Soviet Union collapsing around him, he orbited the earth for 313 days that changed the world. Listen to the last Soviet on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.