Behind The Tech with Kevin Scott - Simone Giertz: Inventor, entrepreneur & robotics enthusiast

Episode Date: July 5, 2022

This 31-year old YouTube phenom constantly pushes the envelope with her unique inventions – from her Every Day Calendar or a screwdriver ring to the world’s ‘worst’ jigsaw puzzle. Kevin talks with Simone about how she gets the inspiration to make the things she creates, as well as challenges she faces as a product manufacturer. Learn about her future plans in this exciting episode.  Simone Giertz on YouTube  Yetch Store  Kevin Scott  Behind the Tech with Kevin Scott  Discover and listen to other Microsoft podcasts.  

In making and building things is like when you start, you think that there's one right way of doing it, and it's like, no, there's a hundred different ways of doing it, and maybe five of those are really good, and 40 of those are really bad. But there are so many different ways to skin a cat. But why would you want to skin a cat? Such a weird expression.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Behind the Tech. I'm your host, Kevin Scott, Chief Technology Officer for Microsoft. In this podcast, we're going to get behind the tech. We'll talk with some of the people who have made our modern tech world possible and understand what motivated them to create what they did.

So join me to maybe learn a little bit about the history of computing and get a few behind the scenes insights into what's happening today. Stick around. Hello and welcome to Behind the Tech. I'm co-host Christina Warren, senior developer advocate at GitHub.

And I'm Kevin Scott. And today we are talking to Simone Yecht, who is an incredible inventor, roboticist, and maker of all kinds. Yeah, Simone has been one of my favorite YouTubers for years. I was so incredibly excited when she agreed to be on the program today. I've just wanted to talk to her for a really long time and yeah she she is an inspiration to me as someone who likes to make things like i watch her videos and learn a bunch of things and get inspired about things that i then want to go do myself but the thing that i really admire about her is the example that she's setting for

other people sort of teaching you that that if you have a little bit of curiosity and determination and you let yourself be a little bit fearless, you can really do anything. No, I know you're a huge fan of hers, and I can't wait to hear the two of you talk shop, no pun intended. Awesome. Simone Jetsch is a Swedish inventor, maker, robotics enthusiast, TV host, professional YouTuber, and most recently, entrepreneur. She briefly studied engineering physics at the Royal Institute of Technology in Stockholm and has since built a career creating amazing things and sharing the process of their creation with the world. Jetsch builds robots that do all kinds of impractical and funny things, like an alarm clock that slaps the user, a lipstick applier, and famously a toothbrush

helmet that launched her YouTube career. She's an inspiration to everyone who follows her. Simone, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Well, so, you know, maybe we could start our conversation with, you know, your childhood and how you got interested in making. I mean, for me, it didn't really start in my childhood, to be honest. Like, I was always interested in making things, but, and I remember, I mean, I studied woodworking in school and stuff like, like I'm from Sweden and all kids do that and sewing. And I really enjoyed it. And I was always like a very free range kid and kind of just running around and making my own mistakes and trying to figure things out. But I would definitely

wasn't like a tech whiz kid. Like my brother was. He was always picking apart computers and learning programming. And I was like, nah, I don't think that's for me. And then it wasn't until I was 23, 24, where I remember it like hitting me and being like, wow, this is so cool. But I never saw myself as somebody who would think that that stuff was interesting. Yeah. But then once I did, it was just like full force ahead. Do you remember what the inspiration was? Like that moment that you had when you were 23, 24 years old that made you think, wow, this is something I'd like to do?

You know, I think it's really, for me, it's the thing that excites me about tools, and I do really think of programming as a tool, is when you realize what you can use it to do. Like, I was never excited about them on their own. It was more like, wait, so you're telling me if I learn how to program just like basic JavaScript and CSS, then I can make a

website where there's head, like hair growing out of the screen, and I can turn my cursor into a razor blade, and I can shave that fake hair off, you know? So it was just for me, it was like, it was very much once I realized like all the stupid, silly stuff I could do with it. Yeah, but since then, I mean, I haven't written a line of code in years. I'll like still write some like basic motor program, but that was a couple of years ago. I did code a lot. And I was, I started getting into electronics and programming mostly Arduinos. But now I'm just like very hardcore into woodworking and and welding and have been enjoying that part of making a lot more well i've watched some of your i actually have seen all of your videos uh like i i'm uh you have no idea how excited i was to be able to get to chat with

you so i i and this must be a weird thing too. You're putting so much of your life there and you've got a complete stranger like me who comes along and like wants to ask about, you know, how scraps is doing. And, you know, is that CNC machine still working for you in LA? I mean, like, it's weird, right?

It's honestly, it's not that, I think in part I've gotten used to it, but it's also like, I don't know how to say this without sounding cheesy, but I do think that who I am on the internet is a pretty good representation of who I am in real life. So it's never like, oh, they don't know the real me. Like they, like people who watch my videos do know a side of me. So I don't know. It's mostly just hard because I'm like, oh, but I feel guilty because I'm like, I should know things about you too. It almost feels like when you're like hanging out with somebody and they remember so many

things you said and you're like, I can't even remember where you live. Yeah. Well, so I want to really get into the hardcore makery stuff. But I did want to say, like, one of the things that I love so much about how you make your videos is you just allow yourself to be vulnerable on camera. Like, you show the whole process. Like, you get excited about a project. Like, stuff doesn't work. You get really upset about it not working. Then you like stick with it and like make it work. Like I was just

this past week, I was rewatching the stained glass window video. And like I'm going on this journey with you. Like I've done so many of these things myself and I like the water's leaking out of this thing I'm like oh my god I know exactly how that feels the thing is it's like building is messy and it's always like frustrating and then when you do get it to work it's like exhilarating and I think for me it was always discouraging to watch videos where people just nailed it because then I would feel like I was doing something wrong because I'm like my builds never feel like that like they're always I mean it's like the difference between like the really beautiful Instagram vacation photo versus like what it actually was and you're like I was kind of cold and hungry and like upset with my dad

or whatever and I don't know I'm just trying to be transparent plus like the thing is when bad things happen and builds I'm always I get so annoyed with it but then when I'm editing the footage I'm always kind of happy that it happened because I'm like oh that's where the story is at and it's also like it is nice to see, like, how I can overcome those adversities. Like, even for myself, I'm like, yeah, I did solve it. And I was really upset. And I felt like I wasn't going to come around on top. And then I managed to finagle my way through it somehow.

And I don't know how you think about it philosophically about, you know, just the whole struggle of making things. Like, being a creator, whether you're writing software or making a company or building a project or whatnot, like, there's a whole bunch of things that can make that go easier. It's, you know, good if you're curious. It's good if you're willing to explore. But the thing that you show is that resilience is super important. Nothing ever goes perfectly. And I felt this the same way when I was a young software engineer. All you ever saw was the computer science paper that someone had written where they got into all of the answers and you saw none of the process how they got there.

And you just felt so bad about yourself that you're imagining how much easier it must have been for everybody else when in reality it wasn't. But the thing is, I think, yeah, it's resilience. But also for me, the reason that I am resilient in these situations is because I'm so genuinely excited about what I'm doing. If I wasn't pumped about it, then I'd be like, whatever, I'll just move on and like, go play video games instead. But since I'm like, I really want to pursue this and push it through and like make this build come to life. I think that's what's making me resilient. And also just because I think I am really stubborn,

but it's not that I'm like, oh, I have to push myself and work harder and like be really disciplined about it. It's mostly that I'm just like laying in bed at 3 a.m. being like, oh, I can solve it like this. Or what about if I do that? And my brain just kind of can't let it go because I

really want to see it through? That's awesome. Well, so, you know, maybe we can talk a little bit about how you get the inspiration to make the things that you make. Because you do, you have chosen over the years to make a bunch of interesting things that are not, I mean, and if you watch makers on YouTube, there's a lot of, I don't even know whether it's, it's not that people are copying each other, but there seem like there are these things, like everybody at woodworking goes and makes an epoxy river table at the same time and like there are these trends and like the things that you do are just so unique to you how do you do that i think it's because i'm setting that bar for myself i've just always been like i wanted to be something that you haven't really seen before or a spin on something in a way that you haven't done before. And I think it's just,

it's because it's what I'm most interested in making, but it's also because I am, I think it has to do with the platform that I'm creating for. So it is now YouTube and social media. And then I'm always like, what's the hook? What's the interesting thing? And then if I, I think if, if I'm being totally honest, if I was just making stuff for myself, then it would still be in that realm. But I probably wouldn't push myself as hard. But now I'm just always like, you know, in some way, I think it might almost be insecurities because I'm like, to justify to exist in the space, I feel like I have to present something really unique. And I'm always like, because there are so many different videos I could be making. And I'm like, it's not interesting enough. I don't

feel like I can ask people to spend time watching this if it's not elevated in some way. And I do think that has a little bit to do with like insecurities or like being apologetic about taking up space, which goes very against like being on YouTube. But then I think it's also just what I'm interested in. And I love like trying to find unique solutions to everyday problems. And that's also what I've been doing now, trying to transform or like apply that thinking to product design.

So it's like making things for YouTube, but then also using those same kind of qualifiers to develop products and try to create for that arena as well, which is like a whole other world. Yeah, I mean, already the things that you are making. So you have a new online store called Yetch, Y-E-T-C-H. I'm very proud of how I managed to segue into that because it did actually come very naturally. Did I mention that I also have a product store and where I'm trying to apply this thinking? I felt very pro. But you just are making some of the coolest stuff. So the everyday calendar that you make is such an awesome idea just because it's general purpose.

Like you can use it for any practice you've got. And you created it for a meditation practice you were trying to do? I wanted to meditate every day. So I made this calendar that's kind of like a year. I still don't know how to elevate or pitch it without like visuals. But it represents a whole year. And if you tap a day, you can light it up. So you can be like, did I meditate today? And you get to tap it and it's like almost like a little gold star. But I've seen, I mean,

what's really fun about that product is people are using it in ways I never expected it to. I mean, there's people who use them as period trackers or like how often they water their plants or if they took their medicine. So it's like very just like, here's something that I found useful for this, but maybe you can find it useful for other things. Yeah, it's amazing. And then we were just talking about it. I have a, I'm sitting in the middle of a shop right now. So my office is a machine shop and woodworking studio. So like there's, yeah, it's all of this stuff off a camera.

And so like I work with some people here and we were talking about your like Phillips head screwdriver ring. And like what a great idea. Everybody thought it was. They were like, oh, yeah, I wish I had that. I had something this morning where it would have been useful. It's been really, really fun. I'm like, manufacturing is a pain. It is.

It is. It is. Yeah. I feel like everybody's. It's almost like hearing people talk about parenting and anyone who has kids is going to be like, having kids is so hard. And it's the same for manufacturing where people are just like, it's hard. It's really, really hard.

And like the everyday calendar especially. Because now a lot of the other products that we've added to the roster, and it's still just like a seedling of a product company, don't have any electronics in it. And I'm like, I don't know if I ever want to do another electronics product because like the amount of things that can go wrong with it. And we're using capacitive touch, which is very reliable. But I mean, there are thousands of calendars out in the world there now and living happy lives. But yeah, it's definitely as somebody who's terrified of disappointing people i'm like couldn't i have a dream that meshed well with my personal anxieties and was like one of the most triggering things where you're like we're sending out thousands of puzzles and what if something's wrong with them what if the boxes come scratched what if somebody's going to be disappointed and sad um but so far so good and it's honestly it's just it feels really nice to be able to like find

not a life beyond youtube but like something else to do and something else to like revive the purpose of my youtube channel for me because it's like i've never had as a goal to have the world's biggest YouTube channel or been feeling like super motivated by the numbers. So then it's like, okay, what do I want to use this for? And like being a product designer has been a dream that I've had almost my whole life. And I remember being a kid and I was like, kind of wanting to go into like interior design. And I was always like redecorating my room, but then I didn't think it was cool enough because it felt too conventional. So I was like,

no, I'm not going to do that. And then when I was going into college, I was always like, I'm going to study physics because it's the hardest you can do. And I want to prove to myself that I'm smart. And then I dropped out after a year because I was like, no, this is not, I don't think this is that fun. But so let's talk a little bit, if you are okay with it, about the process of making the everyday calendar. So you get the idea for this thing, like then what do you go do? Because did you start with the intention that you were going to make a thing to be manufactured and sold to other people? Not at all. And I think that's what I want to retain as well. Like, I'm always, and for YouTube as well, I'm making things for an audience of one. Like, I'm making something

because I really want it. And then if other people find it interesting, then great. So, I made this version of it that had a bunch of toggle switches. So it was 365 toggle switches. And I just did it as a video. It was untested. So another YouTube channel. And then it actually worked really well for me. And I started wanting to think of if it could be a product. The problem with any product where you have 365 of a component is like cost just immediately starts taking off.

And there was no way for us to have mechanical buttons or toggle switches or anything in a calendar. And I remember responding, I kind of wanted it to almost look like an elevator button grid, but like smaller. And but it would have been like $1,000 product, which I didn't want. So we ended up using capacitive touch, because it's, it can just be in software, you just need some special chips to, to monitor the capacitive touch and actually ended up using circuit board as the front plate. So it's this like designed, very embellished looking circuit board. But if you're looking closer at it, you can see all the traces. So that was really fun. It was a fun design challenge to take these materials that are not really meant to be consumer facing and try to make them look really pretty and like beautiful enough for you to want to hang it on a wall. And just the process of creating it, who you're collaborating with, had you ever laid a circuit board out before?

I had done some PCB design before, but very minimal. So I started working with an electrical engineer and a mechanical engineer and just some other people. Like we were really just a small team of friends and trying to put it together. We did a Kickstarter campaign, raised some money, shipped those out a couple of months late after a lot of headache, but like we managed to get them out. And yeah, and now we're finally like the pandemic unfortunately came in between there with all the chip shortages and stuff like that. So our bomb cost, so our bill of materials went up with like 40%, which just made it an unfeasible product for us. So we kind of had to hold off on manufacturing more. And now we're

looking at, we just had another batch more. And now we're looking at, we just had another batch come in and now we're looking at adding another batch. But it is, there's some reliability things we're working on. The thing about, because we have 365 LEDs, the fault rate of an LED normally is like one in 10,000 over a couple of years, which sounds reasonable. But that means that like one in 30 calendars can get an issue down the line, like a couple of years down the line. So we're replacing those. But there's been a lot of like, trying to figure out how to increase the lifespan of the LEDs and like doing a lot of stress testing, seeing if we can reduce the heat when we're soldering them and, you know, a lot of different things.

And that's like, you know, you kind of think that you design a product and you put it out there and you're like, I'm done. But there's a lot of iterating and trying to figure out how to improve it and how to make it a better experience, both for the manufacturer and for us and for the customers so I'm learning so much and it's really it is like I can't even looking back like two years ago and I'm I'm thinking of how much I've learned and that's really nice it's like a lot because we're learning by doing and there's not, we're really like skilled, but young team. And it's, you know, I just feel really fortunate to be able to do it and to be able to

do it this way and to be able to do it on my own terms and kind of follow the whims of my creativity. It's, yeah, I'm just stoked. It is, it's just awesome stuff and it it for a curious person it seems like the way that you're doing things like you've got a lot of surface area for your curiosity to explore that's the nice way it's not like you're just building a bunch of electronic products like i'm just super curious so you you're making these rings. Are they cast and machined? So the rings are manufactured. They're not cast. They're not 3D printed. We looked into doing some of that, but since we wanted to actually be a functional tool, the screwdriver ring, you just can't get the hardness of the material using that. So they're all machined.

And then the screw ring was really tricky to figure out how to do. So basically it's a ring. It looks like a Phillips head screw, but then it's like embedded into a normal kind of signet ring. And the way you manufacture screws is you kind of have this like rod of metal come and then they stamp the screw head into it, kind of stamp that face into it. And we couldn't really do that because it would deform the ring too much. And also that tooling would be incredibly complex to make. So what we ended up doing is using lasers to do it

and the amount of precision, like the amount of time we've spent coupling the screwdriver ring and the screw ring with other items and trying to see if they like hold in place or fall out just because we want that really good fit. It's just, you know, you go in such detail in a way where I'm like, no customer is ever going to notice this, but also like knowing that we can get it to that level where we're feeling really happy with it. It's like, we're not going to notice this, but also like knowing that we can get it to that level where we're feeling really happy with it. It's like, we're not going to be able to stay away from it. Yeah. Well, and I love that there are other makers out there. Like one of my favorite

YouTube makers is this guy, John Grimsmo, who makes knives and like, they are super obsessed with knives. They make every last thing. They make their own bearings. They make like every piece of that knife is custom machined in their machine shop. And like, it's completely unnecessary, but so awesome. I just love it when people are excited about something and almost in particular, they're excited about something that I'm not because I'm always like, how?

What is it about it that just gets you ticking and like gets you so in want to get into the nitty gritty of it all? I feel the same way. When I watch other makers, sometimes I'm watching it to learn something that I am going to go reproduce. And sometimes I watch it just to, like, see how fascinating other human beings are in expressing their creativity. Like, I would never in a million years, like, you know, know, which this is not a ding on the product. Like, it would never occur to me to put a Phillips head screwdriver tip on a ring. But I love that you did. Like, it's just amazing.

I just, I feel like everybody's brain is like in their own corner of creativity. And you go and you see something that some other maker or some other artist is making. And you're like, wow, you're just having a blast over there. And that's like your arena. And I definitely feel like I have my own little pod and like kind of the area that I'm making it. And yeah. I have to mention your puzzle as well. So, my wife's pandemic obsession, like the thing that she would do when she was like just completely overwhelmed with the stress of being locked in a house with two little kids and a cranky husband, where she would go just work on a puzzle. Like we had a big table set

up and there was a puzzle on it at all times and she was solving. And I would buy her puzzles, and evidently my taste in puzzles is god-awful because I would buy her puzzles. And evidently my taste in puzzles is god awful, because I would buy her ones that were just the most miserably hard to solve. And then I saw yours, which is a, what, a 500 piece puzzle. It's all white and you randomly remove a piece. From every puzzle. Yeah. So you get 499 out of 500 pieces. And it is, as far as I'm concerned, the world's first officially incomplete puzzle. Yeah, I came up with the idea of this like years and years ago, or I think maybe like three years ago. And I came out of the bathroom and I was laughing so hard that I couldn't stop laughing long enough to tell my friend what I was laughing about. And I still don't.

And then it's like, it goes so long where I'm like, is the joke still there? You know, you spend so much time with it and so much time like designing the boxes and thinking about it. And then you're like, is this still funny? And sometimes it's like, it's like trying to look at your hands and be like, are these normal looking hands um but i'm still i i just think you know the thing that blows my mind the most about it is that people are like down for the joke and i And it's just so bizarre.

But yeah, here we are. It's a hilarious joke. I told my wife, I'm going to order her one. I told her about it and she was like, why would she do that? I know it's like the most wholesome villainous thing to do. Like there's no harm in it, but it's really like people are like, why? Why?

But the funny thing is, because I put together this puzzle two times now, three in total with another iteration. And when you realize which piece is the missing piece, it's almost the most fun part of the puzzle. Because, I mean, all the other parts are miserable, really. But it's like where you're like, oh, that's the one. And it's almost more of a satisfaction to find the one that's missing. Well, and the completed puzzles, actually, I mean, there's something almost like you should frame it and hang it in the Museum of Modern Art. It says something, both the fact that a human being would have the patience to go spend all of this time on a thing that can't be finished, as well as the aesthetic of this stark white puzzle missing one piece.

I think it's very clever very clever time on this thing that's not going to be finished but also like generally when you work with the jigsaw puzzle when you're done you just crumble crumble it all together anyway so it's like yeah but it is it's interesting how much of it i was going to say eyesore but almost like thoughtsore it is because you're always like, oh, it's not going to be worth it because it's missing a piece. And you're like, and that's what I wrote on the box. I had a lot of fun writing all the copy text for the puzzle. And what I wrote on the box was like, this puzzle has one piece that's missing and 499 that aren't.

And it's almost this thing of like, it's so easy to just focus on that one thing that's wrong. And then you're like, oh, but there's so much that is right. And that is just the way I wanted it to be. Yeah. And one of the things that I love are the never finish things. Because so much of what I spend my time doing, like it has to get finished. You can't run a business without finishing things. But in my personal life, I love unfinished things.

And folks ask me a lot. I've got this shop and they ask me, oh, what's the best thing you've built in the shop or the thing that you're proudest about in the shop? And I'm like, well, it's kind of the shop itself. Yeah. And it's never finished. Yeah. But that's also such a different area of making because I've never, I haven't gotten to the point or my brain hasn't latched on to like shop layout as a fun project to work on.

I'm just like, I just want it to work. Like my shop is a mess. I call it the butthole of the house because I'm like, just let it be ugly. Like it's just gonna, it's just there for its function. And then I've been thinking of like, oh, I should really get better about structuring things. But it just hasn't like, it hasn't clicked for me yet where I'm like, oh, that brings me a lot of satisfaction. But I think I'll get there eventually. But it's also I'm just a messy person in general. And I'm always leaving a trail of projects behind me. But I think that's fine. But sometimes I'm like, I wish I was I wish I was that person and that I was that person who was like, I'm going to make labels for things and

not just throw them into random bins. But I mean, there's pros and cons to every setup. I do move fast. So there's that. Yeah. Well, I mean, the way that I think about my working environments, I can be incredibly messy. But what I like about my shop is I walk into it and everything is where it's supposed to be and it's clean and it is ready for action. It's all potential energy. And it makes me, and this is what I need as a creator. I need to walk into situations and I get inspired by the possibility that sits in the order. And I know other people who are like way, way more creative than I am, who have completely different processes. And it's okay.

Like, it's fascinating to me, like how everybody works. Yeah, to me, it's like step one is always clear a big enough space on my workbench where I can work on the project. It's always like just pushing things off to the side. But I still have hope that I'm going to be one of those neat people. But it's like also like doing machine maintenance and stuff. I'm just... Well, and then it's working with other people is sort of fun too, right? Like I share this shop with, someone who works with me. And it took us a while to figure out, like, hey, here's our dynamic.

Yeah. And that's also if you're sharing a space with somebody that I'm all for being clean and stuff. And I will, like, the only time I will really properly clean my house is if somebody's coming over. But when it's just left to my own devices, especially in the workshop, it's like, yeah, it's just pure chaos. And then I'll have fits of cleaning and be really orderly for all of 25 minutes. But... So, what interesting stuff are you doing now? You mentioned woodworking and welding. Yeah. Oh, I was just welding because I was just welding today. I am working. Oh, I love this project so much. It has been the most interesting engineering challenge.

And I'm just stoked about it. I'm making a music instrument that pops bubble wrap. So it's like, you know, like those little music boxes that have like a little barrel with spikes on it and it plays a tune. So imagine that, but it's bigger and you feed in a sheet of bubble wrap and it pops different bubbles and the bubbles popping resonate in different length tubes. So it actually plays different notes. So right now I'm at like a very fun part of the build where I'm going to, I'm probably tomorrow, I'll probably have a first attempt at a

final assembly so I have almost all the parts I still need to CNC and machine some um some wood parts uh but it's all like coming together um and it's probably not gonna work so there's most likely gonna be a rev two but um yeah i'm just stoked about the concept i think it's so fun and i'm just it's one of those ideas where you're like i think of it and then i'm like somebody must have done this like there's no way nobody's done this and then i like google and you get to the bottom of the image search or you like search on youtube and you can't find anything and you're like nobody's done this and uh so I'm stoked. It's been a fun project on every level so far and really complicated, but super fun. It sounds crazy complicated.

It has been crazy complicated, but I've started working. So like one of the push and pulls of my career is in the beginning, I was so stubborn about putting in like every screw myself. And I think a part of it is like being a woman in a field with not a lot of women. And I always felt like I was always wanting to be ready. If anyone questioned my skills or question who had built a project, I would be able to say like, no, I did absolutely everything. No dude ever touched this project. But then like in recent years, I've really like, I really like, I love working with other people. It's so fun to problem solve

with other people. And I've started working with this engineer. He helped me on the companion chair and the puzzle table and the scissor lamp. So we'll like design it together in Fusion and sit and problem solve together. And it's let me like, I'm learning so much. It's letting me do much more complex projects than I would have the bandwidth to do myself. So yeah, it's been super fun to just like try to solve these incredibly specific problems. Like I spent probably a week just popping bubble wrap, trying to figure out the optimal shape and surface to pop bubbles reliably, and to make sure that we could perfectly control pop location because it needs to pop within a very small area for it to resonate in the tube.

And just like getting to spend so much time on such specific problems is such a treat. Do you do any 3D printing for prototyping? Yeah, I do. So it's the first thing I tend to grab for is my laser cutter because it's always the fastest. Like you can do something within a couple of minutes. But then 3D printing and then last is just CNCing. So it's nice to have like things in different tiers of prototyping. But yeah, this build is going to have some 3D printed elements.

But most of it is going to be CNC'd. And I got a rotary kit for my CNC so I could make the barrel on the CNC, which was a whole new learning experience, but very fun. That sounds fun. And you've got an Avid CNC machine that you put together yourself? Yeah. Yeah, those are super cool. I love it. It was such a game changer for me. So it's really interesting. I've been a woodworker since I was a teenager, which is I'm older than you. So that's a very long time ago.

And like one of the funny things that I've seen in woodworking over the years is you have people who try to define what real woodworking is. So there are some who are like, oh, if it's anything but hand tools, it's not real woodworking. And then people now are saying, oh, well, if you use a CNC and not just hand power tools,

it's not real woodworking, which always struck me as, I mean, no disrespect. I love those hand work traditions. Did you not grow the tree and then fell it and dry it? No, it's not woodworking. Yeah, I think it's always like, I get it. But I mean, it's the same with like when GPSs were starting to come out

and people were like, oh, it's not real driving if you have a device help you navigate around the city. Like, to me, it's just it's all parts of the same coin and you're comfortable with different tools. And it's like, for me, as somebody who started in electronics and started in kind of computer design, it's been such a, for me, the CNC kind of perfectly came into my build process because I'm always making drafts in the computer anyway, and I'm using Illustrator and Fusion to design it. And then being able to pop that onto a machine, like the first thing I grab for is never really like a knife and a piece of wood. And I start like carving something out. So I think it's

just all like, we just think of the world in different terms. And for me, I've always sought computer first. And it's just different. There's so many ways you can solve a problem. And I think that's one of the things like that I've learned in making and building things is like when you start, you almost you think that there there's one right way of doing it. And it's like, no, there's a hundred different ways of doing it. And maybe five of those are really good. And 40 of those are really bad. But there are so many different ways to skin a cat.

But why would you want to skin a cat? It's such a weird expression. Yeah, I've never understood that metaphor. Yeah, there are so many ways to build a chair. Yes. Yeah. Correct. One of the things that really inspires me about how you approach making, and Adam Savage does the same thing, is you have so many tools in your arsenal.

And one of the things that I used to, the lies I used to tell myself is like, oh, I can't do X. Like, I am a woodworker. I can't be a machinist. Like, I work with wood. I can't weld stuff or do metalworking, which is just sort of a silly, silly self-imposed set of constraints because, of course, you can do all of these things. And I just love watching you just having an idea and, like, you just apply so many different tools at at the like, how do you get to that point? Like not letting yourself get siloed as a like a maker of type X. I mean, I can list the things that I never thought I would be able to do. It's like almost every skill I've acquired at some point.

Like I remember thinking, oh, I could never program. And then you start and you're like, oh, this isn't like other people are doing this. So I can probably figure it out too. I didn't think I could solder. I remember being really scared first time I soldered. And then you're like, oh, I can do this. I didn't think I could weld. I was terrified of welding. And then you have somebody show you the ropes. And then you're like, okay, I can do this. The same with CNCing. I was really reluctant to get into CNCing because I was like, I've heard it's so complicated and I feel like I could never learn. And we're driving a car. I mean, it's like almost everything.

It's like I run into like, no, I could never do this. I can't. I'm just not going to be good enough or be able to figure it out. And then you start and you're like, so silly of me to think that I couldn't do it because you just got to find the right way to learn. You know, it took me three attempts to start learning Fusion 360 because I would just get stuck on their instructional videos. And I was like, this is so complicated. And then you just find somebody who can teach you in a way that works for you or find a way to learn it. And it's, yeah. But I do remember, like, more in a branding way or, like, I was really nervous about getting pigeonholed as, like, the queen of shitty robots, which is what I used to do. I used to only build like funny robots and weird machines, which I loved.

And like I'll still do that. I feel like a lot of the projects I do now draw a lot of still have a lot of those elements. But I was really happy to feel like I was able to move beyond that and expand beyond that and have my audience kind of be down for the ride. I feel like they're just the most kind, supportive people. And they're just like, oh, if you're excited about it, we're excited too. Yeah. And like the breadth of this stuff that you work on all the way from the whimsical to some hardcore engineering things like the truckla that you built, the turning a Model 3 Tesla into an El Camino or like a truck. Yeah, crazy. Yeah, you know, I try to do things I'm genuinely excited about, and that does throw some curveballs.

Which I think it's so inspiring. So maybe last couple of questions before we go. Can I just say, you're so sweet. I feel like I'm just getting to sit here and have you say a bunch of really sweet and kind and thoughtful things. It's very nice. I can't even begin to tell you how big a fan I am of what you're doing. And one, because I'm genuinely, genuinely like entertained and inspired by what you do. But like the thing that I really admire and that they use in their lives is magical and beyond their understanding. go past that to say like, hey, you know, we've, all of these things were built by people. We can understand how they're built. We can go hack on them, like change them, modify them, make our own things. Like that's a super powerful thing to be putting out into the world. I just think for me as well, it's so like, things seem so set in stone. And, you know, I've been thinking about like for, forks, for example.

And I've never questioned what a fork looks like. But then you realize, like, this is just built upon decisions that people have made. Somebody came up with this design and within these parameters. And it's just, like, generations of humans trying to improve on things and then realizing I can be one of those people. And it's just such a, and you flail your way through it. You flail and you futz and then you get somewhere and sometimes you don't. And it's a really fun way for me at least to be in the world because it's like everything is malleable and like have like being able to have bought a house for the first time and i'm like i can do anything and you're

like does the window really need to be this way or could it be something else could it be something more fun yeah i i had a colleague who i think had her phd in robotics from Carnegie Mellon. And she was like one of our awesome product managers. And we were talking one day and she just was obsessed with home renovation stuff. And she's like, yeah, it's like, I have people in my team who look at what I'm doing, like knocking walls down, like that there's something behind the drywall, like the chest to Narnia, that there's magic behind there.

And she's like, I try to explain to him that, like, there's no magic. It's just like, hey, I'm interested in doing this. And like, I figured it all out. You watch a lot of YouTube videos and then you figure it out. You watch a lot of YouTube videos and then you Google, what are the most common accidents people who do this have? Like whenever I'm learning a new tool, I'm like, what are the most common accidents with like angle grinders? And they're like, okay, these are the things I shouldn't do. Angle grinders.

Yeah, they're terrifying. Yeah. The closest I ever came to seriously injuring myself was with an angle grinder. Yeah, they'll do it. At a router table. Yeah. Oof, I'm sorry. Not good.

Well, so maybe the last couple of questions. So one is what are you sort of excited about in the future? Like what's the thing that you don't know how to do right now that you want to go figure out at some point in the future? Like a thing you want to add to your arsenal of skills? I do want to work more on vehicles. I'm kind of on the lookout for another big vehicle project. But it's, I think I've set the bar a little bit too high for myself because I'm like trying to think of like truck law and she's just a really hard act to follow. But I really want to do that and do more, more just vehicular stuff because that's such an interesting area. I also, I want to learn how to build houses. I really want to like at

least design a house at some point, but that's a couple of years down the line. But then now it's just a lot of like product development. Design for manufacturing is a really interesting area. And honestly, like a lot of the things that I'm hoping to see the next couple of years is just like growing as a CEO. And in that leadership role, there's a lot of other parts to the business where it's like, you know, when you grow up on YouTube or being a YouTuber and you're kind of like,

yeah, you're just this kid making videos in your living room. And then the business has just grown. And I'm really excited to step more into that role and just, I don't know, learn about that. But, like, leadership is never something I've really thought about, you know? But I think just like everything else you're doing, like, you're going to be great at it. So, as long as you approach it with humility and curiosity and, like, you're willing to try to introspect on what you're doing so that you can get better all the time.

Like, everybody starts out. I can just be like, hey, can I be on the podcast again? And you say a bunch of really sweet, encouraging things to me. Well, look, if you ever need encouraging words about leadership, I can absolutely offer them. Because I remember when I, you know, nobody, I don't believe in this notion of born leader. Like you, as soon as you find like a reason to be a leader, like, you know, there's a thing you want to help a bunch of other people accomplish, then it's just this journey of like, how because it's like I'm running these businesses and I want to I'm you know figuring out what the company culture is and how I want it to be like what do we actually prioritize in the business how can you create a really like kind and supportive environment that's also productive and I know it's not it's it's not looking like a normal enterprise

and I want to retain some parts of that but then you're also like there is a lot of structure that is required and yeah, there's just a lot of like, you know, you try something and then you're like, did that feel right or was that right or should I iterate and try to course correct? And there's definitely a lot of that, both in building, but also in running companies and in interacting with people or in like normal relationships. You're just always like, did this feel right or should I do it differently? And

constantly trying to find better ways of being in the world. Yes. And I think that's a perfect mindset. I mean, it's a really, really powerful thing. Like waking up every day just sort of reflecting on what you're doing and how you can get a little bit better at it. Just step by step. Yeah. So, last question. You do so much fun stuff for your job, but I ask everyone on the podcast like what they do in their quote unquote free time or leisure time when they're not working. It's been a struggle because it's left to my own devices. I'll just keep on building things. So come Saturday and I'll be like,

I'm going to work on some house projects. And then I just end up being more in the workshop and doing a lot of firing up my CNC and doing a lot of the same stuff. So I've just been trying to, my New Year's resolution was to try to make more friends and build more community, which is interesting because it's almost the thing that you just expect to happen. And I'm like, no, I'm actually going to make an effort. I moved to LA mid 2020. So like during the pandemic and I'm still like, I'm just going to try to like meet more people and actually make an effort to like create that environment where like you can hang out and build community. So I've been doing a lot of that. I'm just like trying to see a lot of people and be social.

And then I spend a lot of time with my dog. That's really it. Like we go to the park and I throw a stick repeatedly. She has a blast. I enjoy looking at her having a good time. And then we go home and we rest. Yeah, she's so cute. I just gave her a new haircut and she now has a mullet, which is very funny. It just makes me laugh so much. You got to put that on the video. Yeah. I just laugh every time I look at her, but I feel like she's finally come to her true self. Is she self-aware of the bad haircut? I don't think so.

I don't think so. I think all she can tell is that people look at her and they get very happy. So we have a shop dog, a brown standard poodle whose name is Douglas Fur. Yeah, good one. Good one. And Douglas knows when he's got a bad haircut. Yeah. Oh, I don't think she knows.

She just gets very excited about being so aerodynamic when I cut her short. Yeah. That's so awesome. Well, look, thank you so much for taking time to chat with us today. And thank you for what you do. It's just great stuff. Thank you so much. Yeah. And thanks for watching what you do. It's just great stuff. Thank you so much. Yeah.

And thanks for watching all my videos. It's not just for research, for this podcast. Oh, it means a lot. Yeah, for sure. All right. That was Kevin's interview with Simone Yetch. I thought it was really, really great. I mean, she's incredible, right?

Like the stuff that she does, as you said at the top of the show, she's a great example for so many people out there. But what was amazing to me is how she's just so kind of fearless to give things a try. And that attitude, I think, about learning and exploring and trying things out is just really, really, I think, rare to see people do it the way that she has. And also really awesome just to see the results where she's saying, okay, well, if other people can do this, why can't I try? I don't think we have enough of that in this world. Yeah, I totally agree. We have so many people, and like I do this myself sometimes, like I have over and over again in my own life sort of looked at things and say, oh,

I don't understand how this works. And like, I think it's too complicated for me to understand. And like that is, you can certainly live your life that way, but like it's so much more interesting when you just can focus your curiosity on a thing, like figure out what makes it tick, like what must the people who made it have been thinking when they created the thing. And then just giving yourself permission to tinker around and to try to replicate people's results or make brand new things that have never existed before yourself. No, I totally agree with you. I have a tendency sometimes to do the same thing where I think something's too hard and I don't want to even attempt it because I'm just like, well, there's no way I could figure

it out. But hearing Simone talk and thinking about it, I'm thinking, no, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to learn to actually fix my own plumbing if I want to, you know? It's inspiring, actually. I wanted to ask you, you know, what do you think kind of, when did your, I guess, love of making start? Did it start as a kid or has this been something that's come about more as you've gotten older and as maybe, you know, you've done other things and been exposed to people like Simone? It did start when I was a kid. Like, I was always super curious about how things worked. I would, you know, the bane of my mother's existence when I was a little kid because I was the four-year-old that was trying to take things apart and shove metal objects and light sockets and all sorts of like highly, highly dangerous and destructive sorts of things. But, you know, the thing that I did when I was younger is I just sort of put these weird constraints on my making. Like, I would just convince myself that, oh,

I only know how to do this and I can't do this other stuff. So, like, for a very long time, like, the story that I told myself is I am not mechanically inclined. And so, like, oh, my God, it's so much easier to make things with software than it is to, like, make things with, like, physical things. And, yeah, then I, yeah, I'd done some woodworking stuff when I was a kid. And I, like, I became a more serious woodworking hobbyist as an adult. But even then, it's like, oh, well, I'm only a woodworker. I can't do this other stuff. And the thing that I've just learned over time is that, yeah, you can teach yourself how to do anything. And when you have more tools in your arsenal, you can do more really interesting, creative things.

Yeah. No, I think that's a great point. And I think what's great about what's happening now, what we didn't have access to before, is that we have this community of makers, people like Simone, who are making this amazing content and teaching others and giving them ideas and showing off what it looks like, which is empowering. It really is. For people who might not know where to get started or might be afraid of doing something

wrong, having those guides out there for us is just really awesome. 100%. I mean, we should all be just incredibly grateful with how generous all these makers are, that they are sharing what they do with all of us and teaching us, like, what their creativity looks like. Even if, you know, we're just curious and never going to do things ourselves, like, it's still just an incredible act of generosity on their behalf. No, you're completely correct. I think that goes for all types of art, which making definitely is. We're very fortunate to have so many generous people,

as you say, sharing with us, and Simone is definitely one of them. All right. Well, that is all the time we have for today. Thank you so much to Simone Yatch for joining us. If you have anything that you would like to share with us, please email us anytime at BehindTheTech at Microsoft.com. You can follow Behind the Tech on your favorite podcast platform or check out our full video episodes on YouTube. Thanks for tuning in. See you next time.