Benjamen Walker's Theory of Everything - Failure (prelude)

Episode Date: December 25, 2018

After Meghan Daum’s marriage falls apart she meets some new friends on YouTube. Also, reporter Paris Martineau tells us about a new game changing online harassment tool: the thotbot. Meghan wrote about her journey for Medium and Paris’s reporting is from Wired.

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Episodes every other week at neverpo.st and wherever you find pods. This installment is called Failure, Prelude. Why did I call my husband my intellectual ally? Because he was. I was so lucky that way. You can forgive the cliché, we were always on the same page. I remember early on he would sort of joke about if something was wrong with the world, he would say, oh, it's because of corporations.

And it was a wink at the kind of liberal go-to boogeyman, which would be corporations. And we were liberals, but I think we were both just very aware of the hypocrisies or just, you know, knee-jerk assumptions and rhetoric that you hear from the left. We did not have a perfect marriage, obviously, because it concluded. In 2015, writer Megan Dahm separated from her soulmate. She evacuated the Los Angeles shared home and dispersed to New York City. Everything was different. She no longer could even connect with her favorite Netflix and HBO shows. The rise of premium cable and binge-watching was saving relationships everywhere

because people had finally something to do together. And it was actually something to talk about. I mean, we watched The Sopranos and we would just talk about the characters just throughout the day, just refer to them as though they were people we knew. And I think that's very common. It was not just us. But yeah, so when the marriage broke up and I was suddenly living by myself, I just found myself sitting around watching YouTube videos all night. I became really fascinated by certain thinkers on YouTube and people who were coming mostly from the left, but criticizing the left. And that became a substitute for the kinds of conversations I

used to have with my husband. In an essay that she wrote for Medium called Nuance, a Love Story, Megan Dahm documents her journey into the... well, this YouTube vortex actually has a bunch of different names, but most folks now call it the intellectual dark web. What is the intellectual dark web? The intellectual dark web, I think, is maybe one of the strongest signs of the time we're living in. I believe 2018 will be the year of unusual alliances. And this new intellectual dark web will be at the forefront of that movement. So I know that the failure of your marriage is integral to the essay, but weren't you worried that you might give some folks the

idea that, you know, you're just like a lonely divorcee who was sucked into a cult? You know, it's funny that you say that because I wasn't worried about that. I was more worried that I was just going to be perceived as some kind of right-winger. In her essay, Megan pinpoints a willingness to ask, if not totally answer, questions that had become too messy to deal with in mainstream public discourse. This is why she refers to this world as free speech YouTube. She's not a fan of the term

intellectual dark web. I didn't even really know this, but I guess everybody knows this. The dark web itself is like this horrible world of cyber criminals and like child pornography. I don't know. I don't know what it was. I don't know what the dark web is. I never heard of it until the intellectual dark web came along. Anyway, IDW, now they abbreviate it. It's terrible. Most IDW videos are long. Some run over three hours. And in her essay, Megan talks about how this made it hard for her to share her super fandom with her friends and her ex-husband. She'd end up sending links with time code.

For her, this was akin to how she and her friends used to share mixtapes of their favorite songs. So I asked her to compile a free speech YouTube mix for me. And then I invited her over so we could listen together. Barack Hussein Obama? I thought, okay, he's a black guy in the White House. A black man has made it into the White House. And I wanted to put inverted commas around those words black. Teenage Barack Obama was not a black American man.

And everybody's going to say, yes, he was because of the cops. And I say, no, a racial identity is not based on how the cops and white people feel about you. Culturally, no, he was just some mutt. Glenn Lowry and John McWhorter came together on a platform called Blogging Heads, where people would talk about ideas over Skype. They are two black guys. They call themselves the black guys on Blogging Heads. Glenn Lowry is an economics professor now at Brown, and John McWhorter is a linguist and compilate professor now at Columbia. And probably the most radical thing these guys do

is they have the hubris to criticize Ta-Nehisi Coates, who I call the paterfamilias of the Wokasenti. You were supposed to do your genuflection to coats. And it's a kind of a signal that white people give somebody like me. To me, they are letting pass. Oh, I hate saying this about something or somebody, but I guess I have to. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow. They are letting pass as genius, something which they never would if it was not a black person doing it. And I think, is that how they're judging me? Are they telling me that I'm so wonderful because they think that it's a good thing because I'm brown? It makes me sick. It has nothing to do with Ta-Nehisi Coates as an individual. I don't think he's done anything wrong. My indictment is against the people who are elevating him out of what can only be called bigotry. I'm done. It's funny because the way that McWhorter describes his feelings about Coates and this

kind of bigotry of lowered expectations is what I feel about a lot of the feminist conversation. I feel like there is this element now where if a woman kind of shows enough anger and outrage of a certain sort, then this now passes for some kind of intellectual contribution. And that's just absurd to me. You feel like no one else thinks that, but really there are other people. They just, you know, are shamed into silence.. Okay so another thing I would put on my mixtape would be this conversation that took place at Portland State University with James DeMore. He notoriously wrote a memo about the diversity training policy at Google. The title of the document was

Google's Ideological Echo Change. Exactly. Where they kept a strict hold on everyone had to keep the same ideas. And it became this gigantic scandal. James argues accurately that there are differences between men and women. One of the other panelists is Heather Hying,

who is an evolutionary biologist. Let's look at differences between men and women that are explicitly anatomical and physiological. There have been studies about brain sex differences pointing to notions that female brains tend in the aggregate to be more interested in people and male brains are more interested in things. You could be irritated by the fact that women have to be the ones to gestate and lactate.

You could be irritated by a lot of truths. And there are protesters in the audience, undergraduates probably, waiting to pounce but taking offense is a is a response that is rejection of reality this is such a key point so men and women are different on height right our brains are also different so there's some binary so the the protesters are security now they've cut the mics he's a piece of shit that's not okay even the women in there have been brainwashed heather heing brainwashed should not listen to fascism fascism should not be tolerated in civil it's almost like they're reading off of the card it It's just, it's very robotic. Just for good measure. Yeah, but to be fair, you know, it wasn't just students who were, you know, infuriated over the content of this memo.

In terms of the content of the memo, I'm essentially a layperson. I'm not a, I'm not a biologist. I'm not an engineer. I don't work at Google. I don't know the answers to these questions. He could be, he could be totally wrong. I don't work at Google. I don't know the answers to these questions. He could be totally wrong. I don't think he is. But I have to say, Benjamin, there is something so viscerally satisfying about getting mad at kids like that. I mean, it's such a no-brainer. There is a kind of bloodlust for watching social justice activists, college students make fools out of themselves. It's very tempting to just, you can just kind of chomp on that all day. I can see you getting excited right now. Yes, I'm so excited thinking about it. However,

it's lazy. I mean, it's only part of the equation. It's just too easy. And so I have to always rein myself in. I mean, a lot of these YouTube people that I love, they just spend all day just, you know, frothing at the mouth over this. Can you imagine being a young man on campus today? Just the way society used to police the sexuality of gay people, it's... All right, this sets us up perfectly for the next clip, which is Camille Paglia, who I remember from college, but I'm not so sure about this other woman. You're not as familiar with Christina?

No, no, no. Christina Huff Summers has like millions of fans on YouTube. It's now sort of open season on the sexuality of heterosexual males. Absolutely. They're monitored, they're policed, and demonized. And neutered. They have nothing to identify with. They're taught their masculinity is a pathology in need of a cure.

And then it's offered to them in these gender studies programs. And it's not just gender studies. Now, this last year was a group of cultural critics from, I guess, liberal arts colleges started writing for magazines for video games, I mean, websites. And these cultural critics started to attack the gamers and tell them that their games were sexist and that they were contributing to the rape culture. And the gamers were not like the young men at the Ivy League.

The gamers fought back. This became known as Gamergate. Wait, is she doing an explainer on Gamergate? The press has completely misunderstood it and defamed the gamers. They were just defending a hobby that they love. And I made a video about them in my Factual Feminist series and defended the gamers,

and then they started to call me Based Mom. I don't understand Gamergate, and I've really tried to understand it, and I don't. I'm not a video game person at all. I don't know who's right and who's wrong in that one. Every time you watch a video on YouTube, you're presented with a list on the side of other videos you might like. This is how Megan moves from the Black Guys on Blogging Heads

to Sam Harris, Christina Hoff Summers, Dave Rubin, and Jordan Peterson. In her essay, Megan says she's tired of having to defend Jordan Peterson. Perhaps this is why the mixtape she sent me didn't contain any of his videos. But his face was there staring up at me on the YouTube sidebar next to every video that she did send. So I pulled two Jordan Peterson videos for us to listen to. You know, I should admit that until now, I've never even listened to Jordan Peterson before. I'm sorry. So we fired some up.

Now you've gone to how many shows of his? I've gone to zero. Jordan Peterson, you've said that men need to quote, grow the hell up. Tell'm sorry. So we fired some up. Now you've gone to how many shows of his? I've gone to zero. Jordan Peterson, you've said that men need to, quote, grow the hell up. Tell me why. Well, because there's nothing uglier than an old infant. There's nothing good about it. People who don't grow up don't find the sort of meaning in their life that sustains them through difficult times. And they are certain to encounter difficult times times and they're left bitter and resentful and without purpose and adrift and hostile and resentful and vengeful i'm ready to join the club hard to argue with that i mean talking about guys living in the basement yes but for me who i'm imagining he's talking about like

tech billionaires you you know, like Silicon Valley dudes who like need an app to like. Oh, OK. OK. Deceitful and of no use to themselves and of no use to anyone else and no partner for a woman. And there's nothing in it that's good. This interview is famous because Kathy Newman, the interviewer, would just he would say something

and she would say, so what you're saying is blah, blah, blah, blah, and then she would completely misconstrue it. And so what you're saying is became a meme after this. All right, you might not like this one because you said in your piece, you're tired of defending him, but let's just listen. Here's a question.

Can men and women work together in the workplace? Yes, I do it. How do you know? Because I work with a lot of women. Well, it's been happening for what, 40 years? And things are deteriorating very rapidly at the moment in terms of the relationships between men and women. Is there sexual harassment in the workplace?

Yes. Should it stop? That'd be good. Will it? Well, not at the moment it won't because we don't know what the rules are. Do you think men and women can work in the workplace together? I don't know. Without sexual harassment? We'll see. How many years will it take for men and women working in the workplace together? More than 40. To get a sense. We don't know what the rules are. Here's a rule. How about no makeup in the workplace? Why would that be a rule? Why should you wear makeup in the workplace? Isn't that sexually

provocative? No. It's not? No. What is it then? What's the purpose of makeup? Some people would like to just put on makeup. Why? I don't know why. Why do you make your lips red? Because they turn red during sexual arousal. I think he's right. Why do you put rouge on your cheeks? Same reason. I mean, look... How about high heels? Yeah, I wanted to pick...

I mean, this is evolutionary psychology. Yeah. They're there to exaggerate sexual attractiveness. It's useful up to a point. That's what high heels do. Now, I'm not saying that people shouldn't use sexual displays in the workplace. I'm not saying that. He's really going for it.

But there's nothing... He's not wrong. He's not wrong. And that is what they're doing. Do you feel like a serious woman who does not want sexual harassment in the workplace, do you feel like if she wears makeup in the workplace that she is somewhat being critical? Yeah. So, you know, what makes me crazy, I just, I think that's like a fascinating discussion.

Like, why can't we just have more of those? If we could have more of those, then this wouldn't be so scary to people. But it is scary. And it's even scarier that this is where the algorithm is. I'm not sure it's all bad. I mean, if it can kind of, if it can, you know, hone in on something that you're responding to, it will point you to other things that you might like. If you like misogyny, maybe you'll like racism. That, see? All you have to do is throw out the word misogyny and you've basically shut down the conversation. It's like you say white supremacy, the conversation shuts down. This is what Jordan Peterson, I actually think is really important because what he says is,

you know, there are people who could drift, who are so frustrated with the constant sloganeering and the sort of shallow hashtagging and this kind of smug, this kind of liberal, you know, well, you're just obviously a fascist. So, you know, screw you. If you do not play by the rules, you will be called out as a racist on Twitter, and that can get you fired. I wrote a column about James Gunn, who was the director of the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise, Hollywood director, who I actually went to graduate school with back in the 90s. He was part of a sort of B-movie kind of horror production company where like the sensibility was very raunchy. And so he had been tweeting this kind of absurdist, you know, purposely offensive kind of almost kitschy things many, many years earlier. And suddenly they resurfaced. And suddenly the

mob on Twitter just decides to take him down. They're going to showcase these tweets. They're going to call for his head. And Disney fired him. And it just seemed to me that if Disney is afraid of social justice activists on Twitter, then we're doomed. But it wasn't social justice warriors that took down James Gunn. It was the right-wing Michael Cernovich Pizzagate dude and the other feminist haters. I mean, maybe your bloodlust for these social justice warriors is causing you to forget, but... Right.

That's a very important point. Yes, but it wouldn't have started... The feminist haters would not have gotten the idea if somebody hadn't started it on the other side. It was my understanding of that. I could be wrong. A lot of social media platforms have it set up to where if they receive a couple thousand reports

in the span of a minute, they'll just suspend the account until someone can look at it. And it's crazy that tools like that can be abused. Paris Martineau is a technology writer who often focuses on the intersection of Internet tools, online harassment, and misogyny. This is why, last Thanksgiving,

a next-level online harassment campaign caught awry. It began with something called the Thought Audit at first. Can you just explain what a thought is for those who might not be familiar? Thought is a derogatory kind of colloquial term for that hoe over there. So over Thanksgiving, while everyone was at home with their families, legions of men online decided they were going to find every woman who was making money from a private nude Snapchat account or selling nude photos online and report it to the IRS. For like an audit. Yep. But as the campaign geared up and more and more men started reporting sex workers en masse to the IRS, they pivoted to attacking sex workers and women through their payment service processors.

When you hear the word sex worker, you think like prostitution, but sex worker can really mean anything like nude images, anything that relates to sex and transactions. So this whole war on thoughts, Paris is able to track it back to one guy, a famous internet men's rights troll. Roosh V, who's a well-known, I guess, pickup artist is the name for him, but just he's a legal rape advocate, however you want to define that phrase. He, as well as a lot of other members of the far-right community and most of 4chan and Reddit,

kind of started posting using the hashtag Thought Audit over Thanksgiving, saying that you had to punish the thoughts for making money. In the months leading up to Thanksgiving, Roosh's books had been banned from Amazon.com. He'd been sanctioned by YouTube. Discus had deleted all the comments on his website and PayPal had frozen his account. In fact, he'd been reduced to living in his mother's basement. To me, this almost feels like a planned revenge attack. I mean, you know, obviously he knows his base.

You know, he's probably figured out by now, like what's the best time to get them all riled up. Of course, Thanksgiving is a time when a lot of people, I guess, especially the sort of lonely men that would get angry at sex workers are just scrolling through Twitter. So basically any time a sex worker on Twitter would post using any number of related phrases to her industry, then like dozens if not hundreds of men would all of a sudden glom onto her tweets and start harassing her. I think one sex worker I spoke to said she'd received like hundreds of death threats

as well as like harassing messages. Okay, Roosh may have kicked things off, but someone else took it to the next level. Some unknown meninist gave birth to the ThoughtBot. The ThoughtBot essentially was this automated program that trolled the depths of Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, found every sex worker with a payment service press or link to it and collected them in one big group so they could copy and paste all the names and send it off to PayPal for violating their terms of service. One woman I talked to, Lily Adams, she uses maybe like five or seven different online payment services

from PayPal to Venmo to Circle Pay and whatnot. That's all pretty standard. And within maybe a couple of days of the whole thought audit starting, almost all of her services were suspended and she was banned from all of them. And when you are banned or suspended from one of these platforms, you can't just not use it anymore. All of the money that you have in your digital wallet, like PayPal will take that too. Automation was a game changer for the Thought Audit.

One of the Thought Bots I looked at had hundreds of thousands of people's information. All of these women had their accounts that they used for work frozen and had hundreds, if not thousands of dollars taken away from them by payment companies. The Thought Bot takes advantage of the way most companies have designed their moderation and anti-harassment tools. They just don't have enough people on staff to review each and every harassment report that comes in on a timely manner. And if they receive thousands and thousands of reports within a short period of time,

most companies will just automatically shut down the accounts that are being reported until they can have people figure out what's going on. Just like everything online, as soon as a group of harassers or bad actors figure out that this sort of threshold exists, or that's how the tool works, they find a way to wield it for their own use. Tools that these companies had introduced ostensibly to do good or curb the problems that their users were complaining about are now being used to harass others as a weapon.

For over two decades the Communications Decency Act has provided platforms with immunity from how people use their services. But ever since the FOSTA-SESTA bill passed in 2018, platforms have become liable for any prostitution or sex trafficking that takes place. This is why payment platforms are so willing to act on complaints about sex. And it's why the platforms all now have strict language in their terms of service, banning all porn or sexual transactions that are digital in nature. But you can still use PayPal or Venmo to purchase analog porn. Selling access to a random Instagram account that has a bunch of photos of her or Snapchats.

Yeah, no, definitely can't do that. But if you burnt it on a VHS, then that'd be allowed. On the Monday after Thanksgiving, once people were back in the office, GitHub banned the ThoughtBot for violating their terms of service, the harassment part. But there's no sesta fosta for Nazis, men's rights activists, or harassers. So while sex workers are left with nowhere else to go, the Thoughtbot lives on. Within an hour, 30 minutes of the guy realizing his Thoughtbot was down, he had a new one up on CodePen. And then when CodePen took it down,

he put a new version of it up on some other website. Paris found the guy who created the Thoughtbot on Twitter, and she reached out to him for a comment on what went down with github the guy responded maybe like 12 hours later with a message that all reads that i can get right let me see hold on i'm gonna try and find it gotta go to screenshots because it's no longer in my twitter because i had to report it ah Ah, here we go. The guy responded, hey, just realized it was removed because you messaged me, the thought bot that is. He included a message or two about what had happened, that GitHub had removed it without

notifying him at all. And then about two minutes later, he adds, also, the purpose of the thought bot was to eventually lead to the total excommunication or extermination of whores in society. If I had my way, they would all face the death penalty, including you. You have been listening to Benjamin Walker's Theory of Everything. This installment is called Failure, Prelude. After a short break, I'm going to pull out a story from the archives about a possible potential precursor to the ThoughtBot. Thanks to our new sponsor, Dashlane. Dashlane keeps your digital identity safe and simple by providing a tool that remembers all your passwords, stores and autofills,

all the information you need from your credit card to your street address when entering forms. And it works seamlessly across all your devices. Dashlane has made my life so much easier because I don't have to keep track of all of my work and personal passwords, and it works on Android, iOS, Windows, and Mac. I have it on my laptop and my phone, which means I can always take advantage

of everything Dashlane has to offer, especially the VPN, which is included with Dashlane's premium service. Try Dashlane Premium today for 30 days by going to www.dashlane.com slash theory. And if you like it, you can get 10% off the premium version with the promo code theory. In our last series, False Alarm, I was trying to figure out how to keep making a show that mixes fact and fiction in the post-truth era. And I talked to a guy or did a piece with deep fakes. And I kind of want to replay it for you here because it's really the baby version of the ThoughtBot. All right, here we go.

So I'm going to turn my recorder on, and let's just start with your name. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I don't want my real name out there. The only way I'm going to do this interview is as Deepfakes. And you are the Deepfakes. The original alpha, except no Cuckstitudes. I mean, I ask because, you know, you wrote me that this will be your first interview, but then I read

an interview in the New York Times with a guy who said he was deepfakes. Fake. What do you mean? Fake. And all the other stuff that I've seen in the press with deepfakes. Those are not the dudes you are looking for. This is the first ever

official deepfakes interview. Ever. All right. I'll take that. And I guess we're just going to have to trust that. Oh, well, no, no, no, no. I did do a bunch of media during Gamergate. But no, but that was with a different handle.

You come from Gamergate? Yeah, most of us do. What do you mean? Well, most of us in the Deepfakes community know each other from Gamergate. That and crypto. Like Bitcoin? Shitcoin. Deepfakes is 100% shitcoin funded.

Yeah, I think we're going to need to back up because what I want to do is have you explain for the listeners exactly what it is you did. Because, you know, since Reddit banned the Deepfakes forum, it's kind of hard for people to get a sense of what this even was. Is. Just because we aren't on Reddit doesn't mean we don't exist. I just made one this morning. A what? A deepfake. Really?

Can you tell me about it? All right. So I took a scene from a Stormy Daniels movie called Sex or Neighbors, and then I replaced her face with the face of Greta Gerwig. In my movie, it's Greta Gerwig who is the sex store neighbor. Like Greta Gerwig, the director of Lady Bird. Oh, yeah, and it was easy. I exported like 500 shots from her movie LOL, and then another 500 from her movie Frances Ha,

and then a bunch of images from The Humbling. Now, she fucked Al Pacino. Again, I just want you to try to explain how this works, like step by step. Okay, so I built two data sets, one with images of Stormy Daniels and one with images of Greta Gerwig. I mean, well, I didn't really have to build

a Stormy Daniels set. I just bought that one for like half an Ethereum. So you can already buy DeepFakes data sets using crypto. Oh yeah. In less than six weeks, the DeepFakes community database almost every single porn star and hot movie actress. But not Greta Gerwig.

No, I just made the first Greta Gerwig DeepFakes. But trust me, now that I've built the Greta Gerwig data set, there will be more. Okay. Again, let's just back up. So you have these two data sets. You build them.

Then what happens? I run the deepfakes algorithm. And who built that? Facebook. Really? Well, they built deepfakes. Okay. That's their deep learning facial recognition system.

It's a nine level neural net trained on four plus million Facebook users. My deepfakes app is basically a modified clone of deepface. How? Well, as long as you have the Ethereum, you can get anything you want out of Facebook, especially right now. So you built the deepfakes app using a stolen Facebook algorithm. That's incredible. Yeah, well, I had help.

But my name is on the fucking app. It's not called Roosh or Nero. It's Deepfakes. The original alpha, bitch, except no cuts to do. Okay, so you run the algorithm on your two data sets, and then what happens? Once it's learned Greta Gerwig, it can map out Greta Gerwig's face onto the face of Stormy Daniels. And then I can export a clip in which Greta Gerwig gets it can map out Greta Gerwig's face onto the face of Stormy Daniels. And then I can export a clip in which Greta Gerwig gets down on her knees. So I've seen a few deep fakes,

you know, before the Reddit forum got closed down. I didn't see one with Greta Gerwig. You will. I do have to say they look real. I mean, it's clear that it's the early stages of something, but it's also clear that because of you, celebrities are soon going to have to worry about their real sex tapes leaking and their fake sex tapes leaking. No, this isn't just about celebrities. But you made a deep fake of Greta Gerwig

because she's famous. No, I made a video of Greta Gerwig choking on cock because she's a feminist hypocrite. Greta Gerwig is a classic SJW fraud. She had no problem acting in Woody Allen movies when no one knew who she was. And now that she's famous, she's jumped onto the Woody Allen pile on. Oh, yeah, I would never work with him again. I believe women.

I support Me Too. This is like the literal definition of hypocrisy. In my video, she's the one getting piled on. By five, God. It's a good thing she's not on Twitter, or I would have you whored this right back to her this morning. Oh, wow. I'm not okay with where this is going. Let me ask you something personal. Aren't you sick of this Me Too shit? Uh, no.

You're not sick and tired of seeing feminists screaming for manicide every time you go on the internet? I sure as hell am. And it's why I put so much work into deep fakes. I'm so confused. Yeah, I know. But it's not my fault. I don't know how else to spell it out for you. I don't even think our automatic you-whoring is going to help.

You mainstream media losers just refuse to see us as anything more than a bunch of dudes masturbating in our parents' basement. You keep saying you-whore. What is you-whore? Okay, this is how the new DeepFakes app is going to work. Whenever some girl tweets out her boo-hoo bullshit and uses a MeToo hashtag, it will ping DeepFakes, and our AI will go into action. It will instantly scrape her Facebook and her Instagram and build up a custom database. Easy to do. Most of these feminist frauds post at least one selfie a day.

It's like they're asking for it. And once we have the database, the algorithm then matches her with the porn actors from our library and then boop, we have a new original deepfakes video in which we reveal this feminist fraud's true face to the world. Then the software will tweet this video out to her, her followers, her family, her friends with the hashtag you whore. You whore. Oh my God. This is just disgusting. Right? I know. And it's spelled the letter U and then H-O-R. So it looks like something out of a Marvel movie.

But paired with the videos, we're talking primal social justice, right? It's like how society used to deal with women who tried to destroy men's lives with their lies and ambitions. I find this so revolting and offensive. It's like you're deplorable. If you're going to cuck out on me, man, I'm just going to pee. No way. I do want to talk about the legal response

that's surely going to come. I mean, I would imagine you're thinking there's going to be regulation. I'm serious, Benja woman. I got better things to do. But hey, thanks for letting me red pill the fuck out of your listeners. Bye. You can find links to both of their pieces at theoryofeverythingpodcast.com.

And more info on our new series, Failure. The Theory of Everything is a proud founding member of Radiotopia, home to some of the world's best podcasts. Find them all at radiotopia.fm. Radiotopia. From PRX.