Berner Phone #80: Best Advice From A Therapist
00:00Hi, it's Hannah Burner and Des Bishop.Thanks for calling the burner phone.If you leave a message after the tone, we may have to make it into a podcast.Hello, my little Dyers, and welcome back to Burner Phone.It's just me again today here on a Saturday morning in Dublin, Ireland, Dolphins born, Dublin, Ireland, Rialto, for those that know it.and Hannah is in L.A.Her and Paige are over there getting ready to host the Vanity Fair Oscars party,which is very exciting.
00:39They're going to meet a lot of celebrities.But the time difference has been hard to navigate.You know, because in the past, you may remember that there's been timeswhere I've been here and it hasn't affected the ability to get an episode out together.But those times I was actually just recuperating from surgery.I wasn't really doing a lot of shows, whereas I'm quite busy now.And now Hannah's on an eight-hour time difference for the next couple of days.And it really just, you know, the time where we actually have a window to record is just so small
01:14that it's fine.I really appreciate all the support you guys sent last week to say, no, Des, you're fine.So I'm not even going to say, oh, sorry, it's just me.It's okay.We're getting through it, through this period.There's only another two weeks before I head back to the States, and then we shouldn't have any problem.But the good news is that one of the reasons why, I have to be honest with you, I have been,listen, I'm not the instigator for telling Hannah not to worry about Bernaphone, but I've been,
01:49I've encouraged her to not feel too bad about missing episodes becausethere's just a lot of exciting things going on.I'm not going to be the beginner of gossip,but let's just say that, you know,it's great that Hannah has one less thing to worry aboutas she navigates the next few weeksbecause it's all just very exciting, you know?And it's been an exciting few years for Hannah.
02:18So long may she rain is what I say.But needless to say, I'm here on my own.you want to know the truth uh i prefer doing it with hannah but i quite enjoy our little our private chatsuh and i hope you do too thanks for all the support and the comments on spotify i'm very very newto even knowing that you could comment on spotify so keep that going that was fun um and thanksfor the little bit of support uh with some of the messages that came in through the telby through theburn a phone hotline.So this week's prompt was actually something I thought of myself, which was, what's the best thing
03:03you ever heard from your therapist?And Hannah put it out on her Instagram.Now, I had said to add, but she didn't, which was fine, I had said to add, or if you area therapist, to message in with what's your kind of like the advice you give up, themost, but it wasn't on, and we didn't get any of those, but that's fine. I was doing an Irishtelevision, like a morning television show during the week, this week, and I met a really coolpsychologist that does like a, like a weekly or a monthly segment with that show. And we werehaving, we were having some great chats about how she should have a podcast, actually, because
03:46she just had really, oh, she was talking about the four different arguments.styles? And I was like, wow, this is fascinating. So maybe actually I might reach out to herand we might do like an advice episode with somebody who's actually qualified to give advice.So stay tuned for that. Maybe I'll even try that next week. Give Hannah one more week offand try something. But anyway, thanks for the support and thanks for keeping the numbers upthroughout this difficult period of Hannah and I being 6,000 miles from each other at the moment.this one was the best thing you ever heard from your therapist so let's begin oh this I just love thisand I've heard this before but sometimes they're these little gems that are worth repeating
04:36because you can kind of forget them hello okay um hi Hannah and Paige love you gals uh also Hannahyour show in Alabama was amazing it was so good love you I was in the very front didn't getroasted by you, but there's always next time. I think the most valuable thing I ever heardin therapy that I think about probably 10 years later, I'm 25, and I heard it when I was15, is I was one time talking about like how much, this is at 15. It's crazy to be havingthese thoughts at 15, but how much farther in life everyone is than me? And my therapistliterally goes, I'm going to stop you right there, like stop talking. And she scribbles something downon a sticky note and gives it to me. And it. And it,
05:20it said comparison is the thief of joy and i feel like i've heard that saying a lot of times since thenbut in therapy that is the first time i'd ever heard comparison is the thief of joy and i'mnaturally someone who compares a lot to other people so i kept that sticking note with me for the longestduring my teenage years and i still need it now in my 20s so that's the i mean that's amazingobviously she thought she was messaging giggly squad which is totally fine uh in fact i've beenencouraging Hannah and Page to adopt the burnophone format every now and then, just because I thinkthe giggles would really enjoy it. But, you know, when I read that, you know, because I was goingthrough the messages, I was like, wow, I have heard that before, but it is one of those things
06:04that you probably need to hear, like once every six months, because it's so easy to get backstuck in that rut. I mean, obviously, a simpler version of that is to compare, is to compete.and just various things about sort of paying attention to other people and relating it back toyourself. But in this day and age, that's so essential to hear. In fact, do you know the wayon cigarette packets, it's like, oh, smoking may cause cancer and like it got worse over the years.I know in Australia they had like pictures of fucking like people's like destroyed lungs. I mean,there was the most horrific things that used to be on cigarette packets. But I really do feelthat all social media should have like a health warrant.
06:46like it should absolutely be that every time you open your social media it should say this could bebad for your mental health but i think as part of that it should say comparison is the thief of joybecause you know like if if comparison is a thief then the internet has created a crime spreei mean there is literally it's like um what's that show the purge you know it's like like socialmedia is is is the purge version of of like a crime spreejust uh theft comparative theft uh riddled throughout the internet because every day you're watchingthese people's lives and then what's worse is comparison is not only the thief of joy but onsocial media you're getting like you're comparing with fake versions of people so you're you're
07:39actually not even competing with reality you know you're you're competing with a with awith a cyclist in the Tour de France that's on more EPO than ever has been taken in the history ofthe sport, you know, so it's not even fair. You know, if we're going to get into your competing andcomparing, let's have a clean sport. So this is never more of an important time in societyto focus on the fact that comparison is the thief of joy. But even in the, in the lesssort of comparison on steroids version that I'm talking about on social media,even in your own life.Like, I tell you, you know, I don't like to use comedy too much as an example
08:21because obviously sometimes, like, I feel like it's a hard industry to relate to.But comparison, in terms of taking away your happiness, the entertainment industry,and I'm sure a lot of industry.So I do think this is, people can identify with this.Comparison or looking at what other people are doing can really fuck you up.Now, it can motivate you, which obviously there are elements.of competition that are healthy for you, they're motivating. But once the motivating factorgets outshown by just a deep inadequacy that can be brought up in you to the point where it's
09:01actually stifling or having them motivating, that's really worrisome, you know? Not to mentionthat it can elicit resentment and, you know, just like a lot of emotions that you don't need.Like life is hard enough without sort of suddenly like feeling annoyed.at somebody else's success, you know? So not only is it taking away your joy, not only is thecomparison thieving your joy, but actually it can be toxifying you with jealousy and almost likea sense of wrongdoing, like, why is that not happening for me? You know, and I think you can have thatin the corporate world. You can even have that amongst your siblings. You know, there's just so manyaspects of life when you focus so much on what other people are doing you completely lose sight
09:47of yourself you can even belittle your own achievements and so that's why sometimes like thesetiny little sayings are just so poignant because sometimes you just need like just likejust like a little reminder like a little pinch a little pinprink on your skin to fuckingtake you out of yourself take you out of your mind and just like to get a littlelittle perspective. So that's why, that's why I love them. Golf, another great example of life.Golf sometimes, like, I always feel like sometimes like there's just so many little things aboutgolf. But as you go on and you're trying to develop your golf game, you can totally forgetlike these little basic bits of wisdom that helped you. And then one day somebody will say it and
10:33you're like, oh shit, I totally forgot about that. It'll get into your brain and automatically you startswinging better again. There's just so many little examples.examples in life of just like how sometimes the basics are so essential. Just come back to likethe core principles. Obviously, I've just triggered myself because I started thinking aboutLumen's core principles, which I think at the end of the episode, if you watch Severance,no spoilers, but if you watch Severance, I think I'm going to spend five minutes talking aboutseverance. At the end, though, I won't bore you because I know that not all of you are watching.But if you're a seventh person, stay tuned at the end.
11:15But anyway, thank you so much for that contribution.It's great.You know, honestly, for me, I just needed to hear that.I just like, I just like coming back to these just like little reminders, you know, of, you know, stepping away from your, your stinking thinking, you know.that's a real early recovery thing about stinking thinking but and i've said it before i know but justlike in early you know it's so difficult like in terms of like like addiction right and and so let'slet's take it out of addiction and let's just put it in the basic form of like habits rightbecause habits are like just like repetitive behaviors that then become part of who you are right
12:02and it's very hard to break a habit.And I always put it like in the addiction mold.But like at the beginning of trying to break like a repetitive toxic behavior,it's obviously like the vigilance that's required to not fall back into that.It's very difficult because you're so in the habit of going there for whatever reason,you know, for whatever deep psychological reason.But some of it's just like basic science.of like, there will be an amount of time where you will just need to break that habit.
12:38In those early days of me, not drinking and using drugs, one of the things that reallyhelped me was, remember that your mind is lying to you. Now, there's people here, peoplethat understand the neurology of the brain that will be able to say why that is. I can't saywhy that is. But I know what worked for me in terms of breaking the obsession, as they said,in early recovery. First, there's the obsession and the compulsion. And to break the obsession,you have to constantly step away from your mind trying to take you back there. Because it'sbasically just going with what it knows. And in those early days, it was very much like your mindis lying to you. Your mind is your enemy. Just remember that you can't trust your thoughts.
13:27and it would just constantly make me go, fuck that guy.That was like my whole mantra in the early days was like, fuck that guy.And then eventually, you know, you can actually get back to a good relationship with your thoughtsbecause they're not so riddled with the toxic nature of the habit, any habit.Right? And it can be quite lighthearted up to something quite like,destructive so anyway thank you you inspired a lot in me my little my little memories um let's go foranother this one i found very interesting and i i'm going to play it because i i have to have a thinkokay this is something i learned in couples counseling where when you say something to your partner
14:19you're like in an intense or heated discussion or sensitive discussion you make them repeat it backto you to make sure that they understood what you said and what you meant by what you saidbecause like my husband and I grew up very differently and so the way we communicate is superdifferent and so that way you're like checking with each other before moving on that you're notlike taking implications that weren't actually there or big misunderstandings because the words thatI say mean something different to him and vice versa so that has been super helpfulin many situations, not just with romantic partners, but just anybody who communicates differentlywith you, just double-checking to make sure what they think you said is what you meant to say.
15:07Yeah, so I actually think this is really good advice.What kind of made me laugh about it was, in the heat of an argument, how fucking hardwould it be to get your partner to repeat back what you said and what they think you said?Without them saying, like, I just immediately thought, like, obviously that has to be done in a way where, like, when you guys are not arguing, arguing, you establish that, like, when we are arguing, I'm going to ask you to make sure you understood what I said, and you're going to ask me to make sure I understood what you said so that we're 100% clear as we're moving forward.Because in the heat of an argument, I feel like if somebody said to me, now, repeat back what I said.and tell me what you think I said.I'd be like,fuck you,
16:00don't condescend me.I fucking know what you said.You know,so like I think,I think it could be hilarious.I actually think this is great advice,by the way,so I'm not in any way
16:10trying to ridicule what you said,but you have actually inspired me for,I feel like that will be a good scenein like a rom-com or just like any comedy.I feel like there would be a good sceneof trying to implement this incredibly good advicewith people who are not at their most radical.But it does make sense, right? Because so many disagreements stem from, like, the misinterpretation of what's being said, which is obviously multiplied when things are like a little heated, right? So you've got emotion involved. And you may be actually articulating something that really needs to be said, but it might be coming out in a way that appears aggressive or, you know, like maybe comes across as expressing greater dissatisfaction.
16:56and then is actually present, you know?It might just be like a niggling thing that needs to be resolved,but it comes out as, like, very much larger.So you perceive it as like, how the fuck could you be pissed off about that?That's nothing.But they didn't really say, they didn't really mean it was like a lot.It was just like a tiny thing.So I think it's really good advice.
17:15But I do think that it's easier to implement when you've established in advance that, like,that's like a technique that we're going to.that we're going to use.Like, well, especially with texting.I know this isn't what you were talking about, by the way,but like texting is, it can really create that problemwhere, you know, a perception of a text can come across like really wrong, you know?You know, and so that's why it's always good to be like, what did you mean by that?
17:49You know, just to clarify.But all this goes out the window, I think, sometimes when there's, um,when there's emotion involved.And I really appreciate,I'll tell you what I really appreciateabout this message.It's the way she's like,because we have different communication styles.
18:05I mean,I don't know many people that have my communication stylebecause, I mean, I, like,we just grew up in a lot of shouting.So, and I know I've joked about this on the pod before,but like on a serious note,I've spent most of my lifewith people saying,
18:24why are you shouting?when I don't think that I'm shouting.Like, I, I, I just, our, our family, like, we, we went to 10 very quickly.So, like, five seemed kind of calm, whereas, like, my five, my five is perceived assevere aggression by most people.I have a joke in my show where I say, a lot of times Hannah and I, we have a problem,because she thinks we're arguing, because I just thought we were talking.And the joke I say in the show is that she'll say something and I'll be like,
19:02shut the fuck up.And she'd be like, don't tell me to shut the fuck up.But I'm like, no, I didn't mean it like, shut the fuck up.I meant like, shut the fuck up.And she's like, I can't hear the difference.You literally sound like you want to kill me when you're like, where's the milk?You know, so I, which is a joke, obviously.But there is kind of often like an aggression in my voice, which is, it's not aggression.
19:24It's just the way it wasn't Argaft, Argaaf, sorry, Irish slang, my house growing up, and everything was quite confrontational.So I don't, a certain, there's a certain level of confrontation that I don't perceive as confrontation.I perceive it as communication.So, which is on me, by the way, I'm not, I'm not forcing blame to anybody.I'm not just talking about Hannah, I'm talking about throughout my life.There have been times where I've ended up in confrontationbecause somebody thought we were already in confrontationwhere I was just actually communicating but was not aware how it was coming across.
20:10Even on stage sometimes it can happen where like a heckler situation,particularly in the early days, a heckler situation would get out of handbecause they would be like, yo, what the fuck?And I'm like, sorry, that's not that case.across like way more like i want to kill you than uh than it did so anyway my point is thatuh i think it's great advice too for that where uh your your your partner can either be the calm oneor the the quote unquote angry one um so it's it's it's a good so for me i always find the betterwell not the better advice but the advice that works for me which i've definitely said on the pod before
20:52is, like, I don't think there's any argument that wouldn't do better with a 15-minutebreak, you know? And I think sometimes whoever says, like, let's take a time out and just, like,go our separate ways for 15 minutes or a half an hour, like, go for a walk or just do somethingor eat, in my case, because I can definitely get angry. The problem is that whoever suggests thatcan be perceived as being like passive aggressive. But I think if you can manage to like take thebreak, you know, if you can manage to like ding, ding, ding, and just sit in your neutralcorners, you can actually come back with like a little bit of calmness. And, you know,if you want to look at a perfect example of two different types of communication styles,
21:46just have a look at J.D. Vance and Trump going after Zelensky.Because it can be pretty hard to seem like you're the villain when you've been attackedby another country. But hey, listen, this is not a political podcast. But I'm just using thatas an example of when two communication styles clash and suddenly you have a majorinternational diplomatic incident, which may lead to the end of the world. But, you know,they listen. You know, some of these things are small problems, like it may lead to nottalking to your wife or your husband for two days, or sometimes they lead to all-out nuclear war.But, hey, guys, I'm not trying to trigger your anxiety, but, you know, just trying to keep it
22:24lighthearted here in a pot.I always felt limited by off-the-shelf hair care.You know, they have color protection, volume, repair.I wanted something that has all of it and personalized for me.Because also some things I want and some things I don't, some things I need and some things Idon't, and that's why I love pros.Since 2017, Pros has transformed travolved.hair care with custom formulas personalized to 85 plus unique factors while others claim custom
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23:38And 50% off your custom routine, pros.com slash burner.So this is a PSA for anyone who rents.You need to get built.Okay?You're going to love me for this.You can earn points on rent.It's now a reality when you pay your rent through built.You don't even have to check with your landlord to start earning points that you can use towards flights, hotel stays, fitness classes, and even your next rent payment.
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24:40on rent. My question is, why not? Start earning points on rent. You're already paying by going tojoinbilt.com slash burn. That's j-o-in-b-l-t.com slash burn. Make sure to use our URL so they know thatwe sent you. Joinbuilt.com slash burn. Don't forget, B-I-L-T to start earning points on your rent paymentstoday. Let's keep it moving. Let's keep it moving. I got to keep it light because there was one or twopeople that were like, hey, you and Hannah need to get back together because when Hannah does it on herown, she's very unfocused. And when you do it on your own, it's very serious. So come on. We got tokeep it light. We got to keep it light, baby. This one is for me. Okay. So I've gone to therapy foryears and I'm sure my therapists have said many of smart things to me but the only thing I'm
25:40focusing on in therapy is making my therapist laugh I want to be their favorite patient I want toleave the room and feel like I just yeah I just like Hannah Bernard a performance so yeah I don'tthink I don't think I'm getting as much out of therapy as I should be oh my God amenamen now obviously you're not all performers rightWe all have different personalities.But I have absolutely throughout my life.And I've been, let me see, how many times, I've gone through stints of therapy, right?And this is excluding, like, loads of other, like, group type therapy that I've done over the years.
26:18But, like, actual therapists, I've had four in my life, right?They all happened after I stopped drinking.So since 1995, I've had four different therapists.and then I've done numerous different types of group therapy and spiritual stuff.I've just done a lot of that sort of soul searching over the years.And in both scenarios, with therapists and with, particularly in group therapy,sometimes I have lost out on growth because I was too concerned about my appearance in therapy.And my biggest problem is actually not trying to make them laugh.
27:00It's more trying to seem like I'm the best patient that they've ever had.Like what an unbelievable pace of growth that you have shown.You know, just, and which was funny because I was always the class clown.I was never academically competitive.I never wanted to be like the star pupil.That is not where my motivations lied.But for some reason, in therapy, I have always wanted to be the best in the class.which is like ridiculous because well I think one of the great things about therapy is that it's a
27:36place where you can truly stop performing and don't get me wrong I've I have not performed intherapy many times I have gotten a lot from therapy and I've had some big breakthroughs and I'vecut through the bullshit and I have had therapists that have literally said oh so you decided to make ajoke there, but what made you feel the need to make that joke? You know? Um, and I've, and I've gottenpast the joke, you know, there's a lot of tears like that are about to come right before that joke.And I have, I have either said the joke and got called out on it and then brought back towhat I felt the need to joke about, you know, um, I've, I've had that moment where I've gottencalled back, but I've also had moments where I have actually become more aware of it and stopped
28:28myself in advance with the joke and sort of stayed in the moment with my therapist and actuallyhave had like, you know, little breakthroughs. So, but, and even in AA&A meetings over the years,a lot of times I was just fucking performing, you know, and yes, I liked making people laugh,but my bigger problem, always, particularly in the early years and meetings,was wanting to be like the best recovering addict of all time.And that is really, like, gets in the way of growth.Because the whole concept of all those different group therapy things is,hey, this is a safe space to be yourself.
29:10You know, you don't need to hide anymore.Like, you know, that's the point of therapy.It's like, hey, guys, hide and seek is over.You know, let it out.Be yourself. Be comfortable with being yourself. So stop fucking performing. Why are you soafraid of who you are? But the other great thing about therapy was it would help me to also notshame myself around the fact that it's in me performance. You know, it's an inherent part of mypersonality and I should also just appreciate that that's who I am. So it was like a two-way street
29:49of also being like, but it's okay to be that guy, you know, but there's a time and a place,like everything, you know, there's a time and a place.So anyway, I do think that's actually, it's not the best thing your therapist ever said,but it's actually great advice about therapy in general, or even just like using a friend,like when you're using a friend, like a friend you really trust, it's like, don't be afraidto like, you know, reveal who you really are.Don't feel like you have to perform your way through your struggles.But it's not always easy.
30:33I was trying to think of some funny scenarios.But I can't really, I can't, I can't really, I can't really, I can't really think of one.But like, I know there's been times where I've like been literally dying.inside. And then I'm sitting there talking about, you know, how great I'm doing. And it's like,do yourself a favor, bro. You know, now, listen, if anyone's been in a group therapy setting,it's also like, sometimes there's certain group therapy sessions that are like not that safe,you know, so it's kind of fine. You know, it's kind of like, it's kind of okay to suddenly be like,you know what? I don't trust enough of these people to fucking let her all out. So that's fine,
31:13too. But, you know, as I said, for everything, there's a time and a place.So if you find yourself performing, you know, where you should be opening up,maybe just remember this conversation and say, hey, I'm wasting my money here.You know, let's get real.The benefits of this, I can't speak to, but I have definitely gotten positives out of therapy.Let's keep it rocking here as we head into the second half of the pod.we've had this on the pod before when we did like just like bits of wisdom but again this isanother gem that i always think is worth repeating okay so the best thing i ever heard in therapy
32:02um actually this wasn't from my therapist this is something that my best friend said to me sosame thing maybe better um but she told me what other people think of you is none of your businessIt's true. I remind myself of this daily. It's like what's going on in their brain, whatever bullshit about me. It's not my business. I don't care. I got to work email. I got to go, I love you. What other people think of you is none of your business.Vice from my drunk bestie, the best therapist next to you guys.Oh God, we are definitely not good therapists. In fact, I had that conversation.with the psychologist I was talking about that was on the TV show,I was saying that like she really needs to do a podcastbecause Hannah and I, when, you know, we have people messaging them with advice
32:58and sometimes like these things are fucking serious, you know?And of course, it's okay.We give our opinions, but like sometimes I do feel like, wow, it would be greatif like there was somebody who actually properly knew what they were talking about, you know?So we are definitely not a therapist.But that is just great advice, you know?put that on the fucking put that alongside thecomparison is the thief of joy
33:22you know on the on the on the internethealth warning you knowwhat other people say about you is none of your businessthat's one of the worst things about the internet you knowand this doesn't just go for the fact that Hannah and I are public figuresand people are you know people are going to talk shit you know when you're wellknow right uh but you can't you can't pay any heat to it but of course when you see itIt fucking hurts, right? But it's not just public figure stuff. It's just like, particularly with
33:51the internet, sometimes you actually, you accidentally become aware of something somebody elsemight say about you. Or, for example, you might have like a gossipy friend that thinks it's a goodidea to tell you, oh, you know, Samantha, do you know what Samantha said about you? And then,then you know, right? And like, does it matter? Does it matter?that Samantha has an opinion that may or may not change in the future? It doesn't matter. You don'tneed to know, you know? Like, unless Samantha said something about you that when you hear it, it's going tohelp you to grow, you know? Or Samantha is so dangerous that you need to know because you need to cutties with Samantha. Unless there's some actual use to knowing what Samantha said, and by the way,
34:37I've just picked a random name, then what's the point in knowing, right? But then once you know,Right? You're still in control. You can just decide to ignore it because it doesn't fucking matter what Samantha thinks. It only matters what you think. You know? And unless you've heard something Samantha said that you was something you were worried about yourself, about yourself, then it's just best to let it go. But it can be very hard to do that. But when you're in the midst of that obsessive thinking about what other people are saying about you, it can be a great reminder. And by the way, like,part of this that's really good is it helps you to not worry about what other people are sayingabout you because actually most of the time they're not saying anything and that's probablythe more important part of this advice is that why even worry about what other people are sayingbecause one it's irrelevant and two they're probably not and in actual fact more often than notyour issues right the shit that's going on for you is putting language in your headAnd you're using your thoughts about what other people are saying as a conduit for your own
35:49your own shit that you want to say about yourself. Because it's true throughout life that you canreally fuck with yourself. You know, these, these, this crazy thinking can really take over yourmind. And again, I don't have the, the science behind it. I mean, over the years, I've gottenbetter at understanding about the effects of cortisol and adrenaline and perhaps some of thelike literal, like biological dysfunction that's in my body that to some degree I'm powerlessover or to some degree I've just been burdened with as something I have to be aware of,like a diabetic has to be aware of their insulin levels. I need to be aware of the fact that I'mmore prone to high levels of cortisol and adrenaline beginning to sort of take over my
36:38well-being, you know, whether it's genetic or whether it's a product of my childhood. It exists.And I have to say that knowing that tiny bit of science has been helpful to me because sometimes I can actually go, oh, listen, I've never had PMS. And I think it's really like a grave sin for a man to use this as a comparison. But like, I sometimes, I actually use women as an inspiration for me. So I think this is a positive. Because like, obviously there have been times where I've been like, oh, okay, this is clearly like there's, it's, it's, it's, there's some premenstrual.motivation for some of the emotion that's going on in this situation. I'm not going to say it.I'm a fucking asshole, right? But I know that there's biological shit going on. And it can behard for a man to understand that. But I use that as a motivation for, oh shit, some of what I'mfeeling is hormonal. It's cortisol. It's adrenaline. It's things that are related to thefucking biological, I don't even want to say dysfunction, but just like some of the thingsthat my body has struggled to control over the years. And some, it doesn't always help me,
37:51by the way, but sometimes it helps me to just know, just like a little bit of fact behind themadness. But it only lasts a few seconds and then I can just go back into the worry,but, but it does help me a little bit. And again, in this situation, uh, one of the thingsthat when I'm kind of, like when I'm racing, right, when the, when the catastrophes and is going on,when the thoughts are just racing out of control and they're affecting my emotions and then myemotions are affecting my thinking is I do get super fucking paranoid about what other people say.Even back to what I was saying before about like being aggressive or, like, I have spentlike weeks
38:40obsessing about my perception of how I was perceivedmy opinionabout how I was perceived in a situationparticularly in relation to likearguments when playing sportswhich is just like the dumbest shit everbut like after the factbecause obviously you're like pumped up
39:02you're playing sports back when that was a thing for meyou're pumped up when you're playing sportsand, you know, you have a scenario,which is really no big deal.And you're supposed to let it go after the game.And then I'll spend weeks concerned about what everybody's thinkingabout fucking was DES being an asshole.And it can really take away my peace of mind, you know?
39:25And of course, I'll check with somebody and they'll be like, what?I literally just, I had it just the other day.This wasn't in relation to sports.But after my show, I was just exhausted.You know, it was a great gig.And I left it all out on the pitch, as I say, on stage.And I did a long show.I did like nearly an hour and a half.
39:46And I got back to the dress room.And some people were there and they came back.And like, I was just wiped.And in my mind, I was just like giving off negative vibes.Because I was fucking had nothing left in a tank.And like, I was worried that night.I was like, oh, God, I think I was being an asshole.I woke up in the morning.
40:06And I actually called something.somebody that was there. And I was like, hey, I hope people didn't think that I was being likerude in the dress room. I just, I was just like wiped. I just, I just had nothing left. And they werelike, what? No. In fact, when I was driving home, one of them said to me like, wow,Des is in such great form. So I spent a fucking night and a morning obsessing about something thatwasn't even true. Right? Obsessing about what other people were thinking. First of all,none of my business. And secondly, not even true. So, one, it doesn't matter what other peoplesay. And two, odds on, they're not saying anything. And it's in your fucking head.
40:47So that's just, that's just a great reminder. But by the way, it's not always true that other peopleweren't thinking that. Sometimes people were genuinely thinking I was an asshole. And then,you know, sometimes you have to apologize, but that's a separate issue. That's,back for the next class, you know, but isn't it amazing too sometimes, though, that likeyou can obsess about a situation where maybe you thought you were being an asshole or maybeyou thought you were inconsist, you know, just whatever the scenario was where you're leftwith like some racing thoughts about your behavior. And isn't it amazing how like you canresist taking action? Just like a simple action, like just checking in. I mean like, hey, I'm sorry.
41:30I think was I being an asshole? You know, I think I was. And I think I was.I'm sorry. And then they'll be like, oh, yeah, it's no big deal. And it's gone. Like just a simplesorry. And it's gone. But you can, you can resist making that call out of embarrassment or even justlike, you know, you hate saying sorry. Can be hard to say sorry, you know. But God, it can justclear, like the fucking relief. It's crazy.Like, like, sometimes that, like, just the, the resistance to simple solutions sometimesin me, I'm only speaking for myself, but I assume people can identify, the resistance to simplesolutions is mind-boggling, especially when outside of the heat of whatever situation,
42:24outside of the confusion of whatever complication is going on, things just make so much sense.Oh, resolve.just resolve like when you're not in a situation like when you're objectively looking at somebodyelse's situation resolution seems so easy but isn't it amazing how when you're in the heat when you'rein the middle of it yourself it can seem so complicated and it's not always not complicated by the waybut so often it's so simple but you can resist the phone call the text the you know whatever isrequired the gift the flowers the hug the handshake it can be so easy to resist that it's crazy you knowand in some situations it's no big deal and in other situations you can childishly look for a thank you
43:16from a man whose country's been invaded for three fucking years you can look for a fucking thank youand try to belittle them in front of the world's media instead of just being like hey like how can weall work together to resolve this situation and create World War III. But anyway, listen, I, you know,I don't, I don't want to keep bringing it up. So the only bras I wear are skims. I've been raving aboutmy skim's bras for a while now. I wear their scoop bra. It has no wires. It's basically likea sports bra if it was cute and lifted and you didn't feel like you were wearing a bra at all.The fits everybody's scoop braulette is incredible.I highly recommend it.
43:59And also the crossover braulet.Even when I'm doing the worm, I never have a nip slip with skims.There is magic to this fabric.Also, you guys know I love the fits everywhere full brief because I could wear yoga pants and no one can tell.Like, they're not bulky, they're supportive, and comfortable.Shop skim's best ultimates, including the fits everybody collection and more at skims.coms.and skims new york flagship on fifth avenue see me there after you place your order be sureto let them know i sent you select podcast in the survey and be sure to select my show in the draft
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45:47By partnering directly with top factories, Quince cuts out the cost of the middlemanand passes the savings on to us.So give yourself the luxury you deserve with Quince.Go to quince.com slash burn for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.That's Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash burn, B-E-R-N, to get free shipping and 365-day returns.Quince.com slash burn.Let's move on to the next thing.Let's go to a mother one.
46:18Here we go, baby.Let's get deep.It's where we're 40 minutes hits the pot or we're going deep.Des has been trying to avoid the heavy ones, but let's go back to the source of the pain.On the let's really get real section of Bertifone.I need music for this, you know?You know, like radio shows have like a segment.This is like, hey, you thought we were getting real, but now it's let's really get real.
46:46This one is titled Repairing Relationship with Mom.Okay, so when I was in therapy, I know that you guys have great relationships with your moms, and I love that for you. It's like so inspirational almost. Like I would love to have that kind of relationship with my mom. And so I've been working on it. And my therapist once was like, I was complaining. Like, I just feel like I'm getting nowhere. I'm hitting a wall. Like I'm trying so hard. And he was like, well, have you ever told your mom that you're looking to repair this relationship with her so that she can play an active role in repairing? And I was like,no why would I do that that sounds so silly and now three years later I'm like oh fuck maybe I shouldactively tell my mom that I'm working on repairing our relationship so that she can finallyplay an active role in it so sometimes maybe you should just listen to your therapist okay thanksbye wow I mean that's a wow um and I'm sure there's tons of people listening going like yeahas if with my mom um but I think I think that'sgreat advice. Now, I always think advice like that is like one of those situations where like
47:54don't assume that that's going to go well, but do assume that it's, there will be a timewhere that is necessary, you know? And I think it's great, you know, because I think, I mean,listen, these relationships are so complicated and so specific to each individual. So like,this can never be like like a broad thing.You know, and obviously for you, the person that dialed in, that was like the best advice.But what I do think is great is that like on these core relationships, like these relationshipsthat really matter, like I think it's good when you take real action on it.Because it's like people have no problem talking about the work that they need to do for their
48:44romantic relationships, for their marriages, you know.people are just very open being like, yeah, we've done a lot of work on our marriage and it'sreally paid off. But for some reason, it seems harder to say that around our other corerelationships, particularly our relationships with our parents. Because those dynamics are actually,I think in a way, somewhat more complicated than romantic relationships in the sense thatthe transition of the dynamic changes so.much more over a lifetime. So you go from being literally 100% dependent to needing to expressyour independence, to, you know, looking to establish an adult relationship, to how much that
49:36you want to allow them to be involved in your children's lives, to, you know, financial,financial considerations to literally becoming their caretaker themselves.Like the journey of the different stages of relationship with your parents is immense.You know, it's fucking traveling the world versus traveling across state, I feel,sometimes comparing the romantic relationship to the relationship with the parents.So we really, I think, sometimes should talk a little bit more aboutlike the work that needs to go in to either repairing or evolving our relationship with ourparents. And by the way, my mom is dead, as we know. But I, I, you say that Hannah and I have
50:31had great relationships with our moms. And I can tell you, not that we, to compare, comparison is thethief of joy, but Hannah and her mother have a much better relationship than I had with my mom.And that's not to say that I didn't have a good relationship with my mother, but I think whenyou threw Hannah and I into the having a good relationship with our mom's category, I was like,okay, I think these people, I think the dialers perhaps are not aware of the much more complicatedjourney I had with my mother. But why I loved this prompt was,Because I 100% had moments where, like, myself and my mother were in the repair part of our relationship.Like, it was a rocky road for myself and my mother.
51:24And like, you know, in hindsight, particularly since her death, I obviously know now that there were times where, you know, I probably like, communicate.like the need to repair it in a way that was probably too harsh but I still don't regret thatbecause even despite that you know there was always a sense of growth and and you knowit was difficult it was right to the end you know so I just think in whatever type ofrelationship you have with your parents, I think that the need to communicate that somethingneeds to change for either of you is like super important. And it's so hard to go throughthe different scenarios. And I had a very different relationship with my father than I didwith my mother. And it was just easier with my dad. But he was also like,
52:34a much more passive participant in my upbringing. My mother was the larger force. So it was just likethere was just more to get through with her, if you know what I mean. And everybody out here that'slistening with their relationship with their mother or their father, like your journey will beso different. So it's so it's like so hard to advise. So let's get into why I think it's important.right is because those dynamics man they can be so toxic because your parents just have so muchbearing on how you feel and who you are and the decisions you make and they also feel like theyhave a right to be involved and they they do to a degree but at various times in your life the amountof involvement changes and it can be hard to change that dynamic you know and it's not always on the
53:32parents, I think it's so easy to be like, oh, my mom is such an asshole, you know? And I get that.There are times where, like, the overbearing mother or the, or the angry father, or whatever'sgoing on, you know, like, their oversized influence in your life can be a problem that's comingfrom them. But, you know, they're, oh, God, it's like, I can't even, like, the complicationsthat are running through my mind now, like, I'm like, I'm talking to myself into a wall,you know, because just the more I think about it, the more in my mind just goes, I'llfucking leave it. It's too complicated. But I just think that in all the years of living, my ownrelationships, people close to me as relationship with their parents, and just like, just even
54:14listening from a distance to like people in recovery and the struggles they've had, like,I found that nobody has been harmed by like having it out. Like, I just think that every now and thenyou have to have it out and actually sometimes it causes like a breakdown in the relationship but likelisten for some people honestly like some parents are fucking toxic man you know like some parentscan't let go of their need to control you right and control listen i'll just say it you knowcontrol was was the big issue with my mom you know and like someday i'll get into it deeper with you guysbut like there comes a time where like that control can really be fucking harmful to you,you know, and it's okay to break that.
55:10And like sometimes it causes the beginning of the next phase of your relationship,which is just so much better, you know, and sometimes it causes the relationship to break down.But if it's that bad that it needs to be brought up, then you're better off, you know?And it seems harsh.you know and i'll go even further i'll get even more honest with you there was a time where i did nottalk to my mother for quite a while and it was pretty heavy you know but it was an essentialdevelopment in our relationship and i'm not saying i was right and i'm not saying she was righti'm just saying that like there was a time where our relationship broke down
55:51and at the other side of that there was a ton of growth rightAnd by the way, when I'm talking earlier about my loudness, right, my mother and I communicated in the same way.And it fucking, when the two of us got together, it ramped up to 10 in a heartbeat, right?So the fact that, you know, we ended up in a situation where we didn't talk for a while, like a long, you know, a good chunk of time.portioning blame for that for me now is completely irrelevant because what happened on the other sideof it was amazing you know like a lot of growth for us you know which which mattered because that led usinto the last phase of our time together you know like had that not happened like my mom couldhave died and I would have had so much unresolved shit with my mother
56:57And I'm not saying it was all resolved.But by the end, it was so much better.And it actually, it made it so much easy to be there for my mother at the end.You know, so that's why this shit, I'm not trying to like lump heavy stuff on you guys.But I'm just saying that that's why this stuff matters, right?Because you can't leave shit unresolved and just expect it to be okay with these core relationships.Like, this stuff matters.And you just never know when there'll be no more time.
57:34I know I can get morbid sometimes.But, like, for me, that time where our relationship broke down led us to a pointwhere we had a much better relationship for the last, like, six years of my mother's life.And it actually made, you know, myself and my two brothers, like, we were there for my motherat the end.And we all had our complicated dynamics with my mother.but we were there, and part of how we were able to be there was because we all had our own wayof literally doing what this woman is saying, letting our mother know that repair is necessary,
58:13you know, and then you find out if your parent is going to be a willing participant or notin that. And, you know, if it works out, it's better, and if it doesn't work out, well, then what can you do?you know were you gonna like fucking live a lie for the rest of your life and pretend that thatshit wasn't there nah fuck that because you can't divorce your parents you know all the workyou put into your marriage is like yeah we did a work but it didn't work out we got divorcedwhere your mom is gonna be your mom your dad's gonna be your dad so anyway great advicesorry i got heavy leave it in the comments i got emotional too i stopped myselfbut uh i was feeling it a bit there but whatever
58:57That's just what happens.When it's just Desonbertophone, we're getting emotional, baby.We are getting emotional, and that's okay.By the way, I'm aware that I'm joking after getting emotional.So we see that the growth has been slow here in Bishopland,because I literally just did what I said I shouldn't do about a half an hour ago.All right, let's get going.Let's go.
59:25Let's get something light before we crack on.It's going to be another long episode because Bishop's over talking again.Oh, this woman I thought was nice.And this might be the one that I was talking about, actually.Hi, Hannah.Hi, Des.Thank you so much for doing this prompt.I feel like it's going to help so many different people.
59:39Two things that I actually learned in therapy that have really helped me is that anxiety is an alarm.And it might be a false alarm at the moment, but it is an alarm.And it is there to protect you.If you think of it, like, biologically and stuff like that.So that really helps me when I'm having a panic attack.And the second thing that I learned is that anxiety is normally masking another emotion.And so that can kind of, that helps me kind of settle into my anxiety when I'm having itand realize that the thing that isn't so scary is my anxiety, but we have to work through a different emotion that is going on underneath of it.
01:00:22Thank you guys so much.Love you both.Oh, my God.Amen.Like, amen.Is this like, I think this is like, I think I'm getting,is everyone else getting as much out of this as I?Like, I'm getting a lot out of this.
01:00:37Like that is so, the wisdom in that is, is amazing.You know, anxiety is an alarm.And obviously, it's complicated, right?Because as she said, it may be a false alarm, right?And you may be, your, your brain may be in the habit of fucking pulling the false alarm toooften, but there's a pretty good chance is at least an element of, there's something going onin there. Even if, even if it's just an alarm to say that you got a problem regulating yourfucking emotions, even that's an alarm. But what I also loved about this was talking about
01:01:15that anxiety is just masking another emotion, which anger also, I find, is another one thatis masking another emotion?Like how many times in your lifehave youyou knowgot sort of passeda bit of anger or a bit of worryand suddenly realized
01:01:38what's really going on for you?You know?Because I actually, I, God, anxiety masking another emotionis fucking huge for me.Because like so often it's like,yeah, I'm fucking freaking outbecause my whole body istrying to fucking defend itself against some fucking feeling I hate, you know, like sadness
01:02:01or loneliness or, you know, whatever, whatever like fucking thing that, you know, is likejust dying to come out, right? And then it comes out and the fucking relief, you know,have you ever gotten relief from just like a good cry?or just like finally admitting something to somebodythat you've been holding inand going, what was so hard about,why was I so afraid to just let that out?The fucking relief.
01:02:43Like I literally feel like it can give you a rashholding that shit in, you know?And I think it can, you know, the stress and anxiety.can literally give you a rash, you know?And it's just so good to be able to identify thatand try to get to the other side of it.That's why therapists are great.And it goes back to what I was saying earlier about the jokes.
01:03:08But like, I think the best therapists are the ones that challenge youto break through that surface emotion, you know?That's why I always love that scene in Goodwill hunting, which I know maybe some people thinkit's cheesy, but like when I saw Goodwill hunting, I was like really in the middle of like tryingto work out a lot of my shit. And Robin Williams challenges Matt Damon's characterin that fucking room. And he says it's not your fault. And like literally I know some people aregoing to be like, oh, fuck off, right? But like, what this person is talking about, I think it'sreally encapsulated well in that scene. And I think not everyone, I think, now, maybe I'm just
01:03:58being a fucking egomaniac, but like, I think that people who haven't been in that place,perhaps don't get the gravity of that moment where Robin Williams is trying to keep himthere when he says, it's not your fault. And Matt Damon's like, fuck you, bro. Get thefuck out. He's like, it's not your fault. And he keeps pushing him. And he keeps pushing him.And he keeps pushing him.It's not your fault.He's like, fuck it.And then he fucking breaks down.
01:04:21He fucking breaks down.And then he's a sobbing mess in Robin Williams' arms.Because he's been holding on to this identity that whatever the fuck has been going on for him, he deserves.He deserved it.That's somewhere deep in his core, he was a piece of shit.And he deserved it.and he fucking because his whole being has become so accustomed to believing thatthat he feels like he can't exist if he doesn't have that core belief that I'm a piece
01:04:58of shit and I deserve whatever the fuck is happening to me and I deserve to not fucking live tomy potential and I deserve to be a fucking janitor in a school rather than a goddamn mathgenius whatever the fuck the story was about but that that Robin Williams was able to hold himthere long enough, that he could at least challenge for a second that core belief that it wasn'this fault, that the shame was actually a fucking toxic learned belief that shouldn't be part ofwho he is.Woo!He fucking, when he let that go, baby, I felt that, man.
01:05:35I felt that.Because anyone who struggled with addiction knows that eventually you're going to have to cometo terms with the fact that there's some self-hatred in there.and there's definitely a lack of self-love you know and a lot of this stuff a lot of people dismissit as therapy mumbo jumbo but like in the end it comes down to the cheesy shit you got to learnto love yourself you know especially when you got real trauma man you got to learn to love yourselfand that's why i've always loved that scene because so many people have that you know you call it whatyou want you know sometimes people imposter syndrome maybe that's like a little more lighthearted but
01:06:15in the end there's some core beliefs that you need to break that come from whatever the fuckhappened to you and it's different levels for everybody doesn't make you better or worse of a personbut that scene i found so profound and that's why anxiety is an alarm it's such a great thing toremind people that like there's there's probably somethinggoing on for you, even if it's just down to the fact that you need to acknowledge that you'reprone to anxiety, but sometimes it's something deeper. Sometimes there's a pattern that you canbreak a belief system, that you can challenge. There's something in there, you know? So listen to thealarm. Now, the other thing I thought about when I heard that prompt was something I forgot
01:07:04from early recovery that, you know, it used to be like a really big thing in my lifethat, you know, because of the, because of like the seriousness of like giving up drugsand alcohol and just like this sense of it being life or death, you know, that like if youdon't get this right, you could really harm yourself. It was just easier to like have thisas part of my everyday life, but it was that people in people I trusted, people that knew thestruggles I was going through, when I would come to them and talk about something that I wasfinding difficult, or basically that I had, you know, become to feel bad about something or that Iwas really finding life hard, we would go through like my behavior, you know, things that I had been
01:08:00doing that week um things i wasn't doing that week you know like not journaling or like maybe evensomething as simple as like calling an ex you know you know just doing something you know and thengoing back to being like so when when you did that and then what happened and suddenly you realizethat like there's a chain of events so rather than staying kind of likevigilant, particularly at that time, all right? The very serious statement that we used to say waseternal vigilance is the price of freedom. It sounds dramatic, but it's like, hey, we're sensitivepeople, you know? And I think this is good for anxiety, too, or depression. Now, I have neverbeen aware of struggling with depression, so I don't mean this in a shameful way. And I've quoted
01:08:55Pete Davidson before about how he said that because I struggled so much with depression,I don't have the option to stay in.I know I have to go out and get that son.I know I have to go for a walk because if I don't, I know I'm going to suffer.So I don't mean this in a shameful way because I know that some people struggle with depressionand then they can't get out of bed.I understand that.But what I'm saying is that like I used to like the expression,
01:09:19eternal vigilance is the price of freedom because it's basically like,I need to stay on top of this shit or I'm going to suffer.I'm going to lose that sense of well-being.um if i don't stay on top of it so sometimes it's good to be brought back to that you know thecrisis management stuff because some of this stuff is like crisis management skills of likewhat things did i do this week that led to this sort of feeling of dis-ease that i didn't havethe week before and by the way like some of it you can't control i'm not saying but there are somethings that perhaps you let go of. Good habits that you let slip, bad habits that you let slip in.
01:10:06And next thing you know, your mind is racing. Next thing, you know, you don't feel so good.And then as it starts, the cycle begins of the stinking, thinking, of the thinking driving youremotions, the emotions driving your thinking. And next thing, it's just harder to feel okay.you know um so what i loved about this message what it also reminded me of was something really simplebecause the practical shit is really important let's go back and look at was there any actionthat i took that was was something that i know makes me feel worse that stops me being the bestperson that i can be and then of course you have to remind yourselfnot to shame yourself about fucking up because nobody's perfect.
01:11:05You have to remind yourself that that's okay, acknowledge it, and move on.And that also can ease a bit of anxiety because you go, okay, that's right.When I do that, I do actually feel worse.And then once I feel worse, other things, you know, can happen and my mind can race.And again, not a perfect solution, but just another one of the many weapons in the arsenal.the many weapons in the arsenal you know so you guys are saving me a therapy session with this honestlysomebody messaged in from last week that catfishing should be illegal i was going to play that but likeit really should you know and i talked about the ga catfish the other week and like i i wish they
01:11:46would uh legislate that um well listen it's already been an hour so i'm just gonna i'm gonna i'm gonnaplay this because it was somebody who was at my show last nightHannah and Des, I've literally never been to therapy because I grew up with Irish Catholic parents, so that was not an option. But I just wanted to say I was at Des's Dublin show last night. Shout out to the under 25 gigglers in the audience. I died. It was so, so good. Hannah and Des, you need to come and do a joint bonaphone tour in Dublin.All I can say is I 100% agree, and I can't wait to do live Burnafone shows.Now, we haven't done them before because at the end of the day,Burnaphone is, you know, Burnifone is like Hannah's second pod,and it's like a fun thing that we do together.But we've never, we've never, you know, been vigilant about, like,
01:12:44recording the apps for video and posting the clips, you know,because it's like a fun thing for us, and we love that you guys love it.But, like, it's always been, like, Gigli Squad is the,Just, it's, it's the more important podcast, right?So I never pushed Hannah on doing live burniphone shows,but I really do want to do one.And so I thank you for your motivation.I thank you also for coming to the show.
01:13:15I always ask if there's anybody under 25 because,well, I got a lot of boomy humor in my current show,particularly in Ireland, you know, because I've lived here most of my lifeand I have very Irish specific jokes that,particularly you need to be Irish number one,but some of them you definitely need to be over 25,so I always check, right?But it's fun, you know, we play off each other.
01:13:37But last night there was actually a good crowd of gigglers at the show,which was quite good fun.So I also laughed so hard when you said I've never been to therebecause I'd Irish Catholic parents,which is hilarious because obviously there is a resistance,not as much as there used to be,but honestly, like Irish people used to really.really, like, take the piss out of anybody that went to therapy?
01:13:58Like, like, honestly, if, like, in the early days of my Irish comedy career, there was,like, loads of comics that would just be, like, fucking therapy, like, American rubbish.And, you know, they'd make fun of Oprah and all the fucking self-help chat.And there used to definitely be a huge resistance to therapy in Ireland, which hasdefinitely gotten better.But, uh, but absolutely, like, the Irish parents, like, don't, uh, they don't love it.And actually, you know, I spent a lot of my life telling my mother that she could dowith a bit of therapy. And part of that little heavy section that I told you about before
01:14:28was that my mother did actually go. After that time where we didn't talk, she went to actuallynot just grief counseling, but therapy and also some other stuff, some group stuff,and acknowledged like how much anxiety ruled her life. And she was like, she actually did dothat in the end. And she was supremo, Irish American Catholic. And,you know, a product of Irish parents and just like all that goes with that. So I had to laughwhen you said that, uh, because it is 100% of fact. Um, so, so thanks for coming to the show.And so for ever, listen, we had a lot more than that, but I over talked on everything. And Iapologize. Uh, I'll have, I'll have, um, Chris place them out. So by the way, even though, uh,
01:15:22Chris is not with us because we haven't actually done like in studio pods for quite a long time,Hannah and I. Chris actually edits the pod. So Chris is with us, even though he's not with us.So I'll ask Chris to play out some of your other messages because they were awesome.So that is the end of the Burnaphone section of the podcast. So thanks to everybody for listening.As promised, I am going to talk about severance, but I do.want to point out for anyone who's like des is going on about severance that this is like bonuscontent for people that watch severance uh i'm going to give a spoiler alert just in case but this is noti'm planning to not actually spoil anything um but if you're worried about spoilers then that's also
01:16:13fine but i'm not going to spoil anything but just in case you've had a bit of an alertSo for those that aren't watching Severance, in my opinion, it's heading towards going downas the best television series ever made. Now, I know that's a huge boast. And you can agree ordisagree, which is absolutely fine. But I like puzzle box dramas. I didn't even know. That's whatthey were called. And I only know that's what it's called now because I have listened to, so now,I watch every episode at least twice, and I listen to at least three podcasts, and I watchnumerous TikToks about every episode of Severance. And it's a puzzle box series. It's a puzzle boxmystery drama, uh, you know, like lost, which totally got lost and, uh, was a waste of fucking
01:17:06time. But severance so far appears to not be going down that road, even though there have beentimes where you're like, oh shit, they're, they're, they're, the puzzle is getting too complicated andthey're not going to be able to resolve this puzzle. But after the last episode, and again,no spoilers, it reminds you that they are 100% know what they're doing and that it's worthsticking with. And honestly, after the last episode, man, like if you watched it and you,you're a devotee like I am.Like, it was cinematically beautiful.It was just like one of the most beautiful episodes of television that I think I've ever seen,
01:17:58you know, just to encapsulate what they did in such a short time, visually,dramatically, you know, the words.It was a fucking masterpiece.So, you know, for those that, you know, don't know what severance is, it's, it's a puzzle boxcorporate drama about a company called Lumen that severs their employees. This is not aspoiler. It's established in episode one of season one. So essentially, it's the, it's the,the, the furthest way one could consider work-life balance in the,that when you're at work, you're severed. So you have no idea what your normal life is. And when you
01:18:50leave work, you have no idea what you do at work, like literally completely oblivious. So every daywhen you arrive at work, it's all you've ever known is just that work life down on the severedfloor of Lumen Industries. And when you're back in your normal life, which is the life you've alwaysknown. It doesn't affect that. You never, until the day you die, know what the fuck you diddown there in the basement of Lumen. So obviously, in this modern world of just the increasingeffect of corporate power on our lives, not just because of the broligarchy and just how muchtech controls our lives, but just always how much corporations have influenced how we live ourlives from just like what we're able to do, but in more recent times, actually how they can
01:19:55literally control our thinking, algorithmically, how they can take our data and, you know,use it to promote products to us, and possibly to the more conspiratorial-minded,literally influenced society to the point where they may completely shift how society isorganized. So to see this little allegory of severance and how corporations can control us,but also the corruption that's involved in allowing them to have so much power over us,you know, the intrigue, the deception, the illegality, perhaps, the ethical boundariesthat they are able to push, all these things are dealt with really well in separate.in a way that's so nice because there's nothing direct, you know, there's nothing like
01:21:06didactic about, oh, this is about modern society. I'll give an example, okay, of how that's thecase. I do not like Ben Shapiro. I am not a Ben Shapiro fan. But I found myself agreeing withhim once in my life, which was about two weeks ago when a Ben Shapiro TikTok popped up.and it was him talking about how much he likes severanceand how he had concerns that it might get too complicatedbecause he's been burned before by lostbut that so far he has found it to be one of the great series of all timeand I was like amen Ben
01:21:43but Ben can enjoy this you know allegory of of the mindand corporate influence on life and you knowwho controls what he can enjoy it in the same waythat I can enjoy it. So it's not like he's looking at and going, oh, this is some left-wingliberal agenda about corporate power or censorship or control, you know, we can both enjoy itin our own way, you know? You can interpret it the way that you will, and you can, you can takeso many differing meanings from it. It's very satisfying in that way, just the, just the variousways that you could take what they're saying and the Easter eggs, you know, just the amount
01:22:33of investigation that you can do to try to understand what's going on. I've never experiencedanything like it, just how satisfying it is. Literally, like the entertainment, not just from watchingthe series, but then to just digesting it and then sleuthing it. Like it literally turns out. It literallyturn me into a nerd. I don't even like talking about it that much in front of Hannah becauseI'm afraid she's going to get the ick and fucking leave me because I literally don't know who I am.I didn't think I had this in me to be this geeked out over something, you know, like a fucking,you know, 18 year old into anime. Like I'm just literally like obsessed. The only good news isthat so many people that I admire are also obsessed. And it's, it's, it's, it's,
01:23:26fucking awesome you know um so if you do watch i highly recommend listening to the podcast withadam scott and ben stiller not just because it's about the series but it's really fascinatinginsight into filmmaking script writing uh the thought that goes into you know the visualrepresentation the thought that goes into the script the thought that goes into the casting thethought that goes into the music.Fucking amazing.Just, just in so many ways, it's worth, it's worth the geek out on it.And there have been times in season two where I've been worried that they would lose
01:24:11it.And this last season just brought it right back.Fucking amazing.So anyway, that's my, my thoughts on sevens.It's like, I'm so into it that I literally thought, because I still have this.Desmondshire podcast feed that I haven't put an episode on in like two years, but I literally thoughtabout turning the Desbishop podcast into a Severance podcast because like I just have so manythoughts. So many. So many. So do watch Severance, the highest level of recommendation for me.
01:24:47And let me know in the comments what you think. Let me know in the comments what you thought abouttoday's episode. We'll try to get Hannah back next week, but I'm not promising anything.But she will definitely be back the week after that, because we'll actually be together.So we'll promise you, we'll be back to the lighthearted berniphone vibes, and we won't bedelving deep into the human psych every week. But you're stuck with me now, baby.Thank you for coming alone for the ride. We'll be back next week. Wow. Hour 20 minutes. Welcometo hell.Hey, Hannah and Des, love the pod.
01:25:37I think one of the main things that comes to my head when I think of what should be legalthat isn't is catfishing.I got into like a rabbit hole of watching catfishing documentaries.Absolutely insane things.And then they're all just like free.and had no repercussion.Like, imagine emotionally destroying a person's life,insane fraud, stealing money,
01:26:01but then they're still walking free.Crazy.Should be illegal.I started with my new therapistand had to give them my background,and I went through, you know, all the ins and outs and blah, blah,and at the end of it, she was tearing up,and she said, oh, my God,
01:26:18I can't believe you're not a drug addict or something horrible.and I was like oh okay well then I guess are we done here so I had never been to therapy beforeand so I you know was spilling out literally just trauma-dumping about a situation that had justhappened relating to my family short long story short I normally say short story longBut lock story short, I found out that my dad isn't actually my dad, and I also found out that I'm a totally different race.So fun, so cool, whatever.So I had just, like, you know, spilled out all these deeds.And the therapist then, after I was talking for like 45 minutes straight, because, you know, we love to yap.
01:27:10The therapist, she was like, oh, wow.So, uh, this is going to take a lot.lot of sessions.Yeah, I didn't go back.Hi, Hannah.Hi, Des.The best thing I ever learned in therapy is that being nice to somebody you don't likeisn't lying.
01:27:38I thought that it was lying and being fake.And my therapist told me that, no, you can just like be nice to people even if youdon't like them, and that's not lying or being fake. It's just like being normal. So now I don'thave to be mean to everyone I don't like. I can be nice to them and not feel like a liar.You are the narrator to your own story. That is one that has stuck with me for some time becauseyou do write your narrative. Hi, Des. Hi, Hannah.So, best advice I've ever gotten from a therapist, by the way, love you both, very, very much.You make me giggle and, Des, I think you're amazing.
01:28:30But anyways, best advice I've ever got from a therapist, no one gives a shit about you.Sounds harsh, but it's totally true.Nobody gives the shit about you.Everyone's in their own head, thinking about their own thing.No one is thinking about you.So let it go.No one gives a shit about you.best advice ever love you guys hi hannah hi des the best thing that i ever heard in therapy was that
01:28:57love and compatibility are not the same thing i was in a toxic relationship for years and i knowso many people can relate to that love and trauma bond that you can have with somebody but the fact isthat you can love someone so so so much and just not be compatiblewith them and love is not enough in that situation. You need to have love and you need to havecompatibility, whether that be the stage of life that you're in or personality, interests and stuff likethat. So yeah, love and compatibility are not the same thing.
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