Berner Phone - Brian Kelly: The Points Guy & Financial Hacks

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Brian Kelly is the founder of The Points Guy and is the most trusted voice when it comes to loyalty programs, credit cards and travel. He told me all the best hacks for being financially savvy! He also opens up about coming out in the suburbs, having his first child, and how he changed his lifestyle to lose 40 pounds. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Burning Hell What's up, guys? We have a very special podcast for all you jet setters out there. I am with the points guy. Everyone knows what I'm talking about. Don't really need an introduction. Brian Kelly, welcome to hell.

Thanks for having me. You know, there's a lot of cheap imitations out there. so I'm glad that you came directly to the source. I mean, you're an OG. Yeah, been in this game for a bit. When I go on every plane on Delta, your sticker is there. So like a sticker on a Delta plane, let's... They're all 920 Delta planes.

Let's fucking go. Yeah, they asked a couple years ago. And deep down, my friend's like, you probably should have sold them, you know, like had them paid because they put our award. I'm like, no. I like, just for bragging rights alone, like, how cool is that? Like, that's like a hey mom. And the exposure is amazing.

Yeah. I think I'm going to ask the one question that everyone's been wondering that you probably know, what happened to the Mongolia flight? So I think you're talking about the Malaysia Airlines. Malaysia, sorry. Malaysia, Malaysia, we're off to a good start. I'm going to quiz you on geography at the end. Is it in Mongolia? You never know.

So I actually filmed a CNN, did a special segment like a year ago. They asked for my thoughts. So here are my thoughts. I think it was pilot. I think it's a big deal. Like mental health of pilots like is an issue across the industry. And there were a couple plane crashes in the last couple years. A Eurowings had a pilot who committed suicide.

Like not to scare people out there because I know there's so many nervous flyers. That's like the number one question I get asked is, how are you not? Flying is still very safe. But I think, you know, for sure it was a pilot who had some sort of mental breakdown going on. And, you know, the Malaysian government covered that up so much. So there's so many reasons to cover it. There's no way a triple seven accidentally just goes off the grid. You know, like there was some intentional stuff going on there.

Clearly not that closely. But I was watching the documentary as I was going to sleep. And I was like, I need Brian's taking this. That's what, I mean, they found some of the pieces in the Indian Ocean. So it's definitely just because the Malaysian government didn't share information for the first like 30 days. They were so far off that went crazy. Yeah. But it is, that is wild.

But one thing I read that made me feel comfortable to tell people about, someone mentioned, do you ever hear about like the plane in jello that they say like when you feel turbulence, don't think of it as like you're going to fall? It's more just like jello shaking that like you really have pressure on both points. I don't know if that visually helps on the one. And turbulence, you don't really have to worry about the plane going down with turbulence, but you do have to worry. I always wear a seatbelt on the plane. Yeah. Because. Well, you're a massive man.

You could take everyone out. Well, I mean, my biggest fear in life. I think I have it in my hinge profile is like when I'm in the bathroom of an airplane, like a little bit of turbulence, like I'm dead. Oh, yeah. Like my head is like, again, and regional jets, I'm like this. And I'm like, all it takes is like not even turbulence. What is it?

So that's my biggest fear is dying in an airplane laugh and they have to. With your pants have down. With my, you know what out, being dragged down the aisle. I do. I had a little standup bit just about I never understood. the mile high club because I also didn't understand they were talking about private I understand there was like private jets yeah they were talking about like fucking in a delta plane I was like I don't how do you fucking something that's small that smells like detergent and then I just want to

eat a delta bisk off in peace you know like I don't need there are some airplanes that like have lavatories for handicapped people where you can actually combine the two lavatories so I've not done this but I know friends on United Airlines on their 767s there's certain planes where you can actually take down the lavatories. You've got a dual lap. Brian, you're freaky. It's still pretty gross to be honest. It's weird, but I guess like whatever. Well, the real way to do the high club theoretically if I were to have is to do it in like the airlines that have sweets now with closing doors. So, uh, especially on takeoff when all the flight attendants you know are seated and if you have your, you know, sweet that theoretically would be the way. Inside scoop right now.

That would be the way I think that like, you know. I'm obsessed with this. So I newly, well, I used to travel a lot because I was a tennis player, so I played tournaments a lot. But I don't think my parents were on their shit. I just was going on flights. My husband is Mr. You got to get points. He made me get the AMS. He married a smart man. Don't make his head big.

But he was like, we're going to get divorced because I don't have TSA pre-check. Oh my gosh, Hannah. And well, here's the tip. Don't get pre-check. Get global entry. Because it includes pre-check. Global entry. I've been in line for like six months.

for. Here's the trick. Appointment Scanner is an app. It's $30. And what Appointment Scanner does, it'll change your life. So once you get conditionally approved for global entry and then it's like you have to wait forever for an appointment. Yeah, I'm six months ago. So there is a global entry enrollment center downtown Bowling Green Station. And it's the hot spot because you don't have to go to a ratchet airport and wait in line. So Bowling Green Station 10 minutes from here. So appointment scanner, you pay 30 bucks. You put in your phone number and it scans every set. And whenever someone cancels an appointment, I guarantee you right now, within 12 hours, I guarantee you'll have an appointment downtown because they text you and then you just got to go in

and sign up for the appointment. So you will have global entry. You're a walking life hack. I mean, that's what they paid the big bucks. I'm paid to do. So Des was like, you need, first of all, you need to get an MX. I was. And get a card that pays for your global entry.

So Chase Sapphire, Capital One Venture, Amex Platinum, they all have global entry rebates. So when you pay the $100 for Global Entry, everyone listening, make sure you use a card that will give that money to you back. And all those perks, Global Entry is good for five years. So even when you renew it, use the credit card that has the free rebate. Holy shit. Global Entry is amazing. It's amazing because, yeah, my husband lives, he lives in Ireland too, so he's doing all that bullshit. I do, I'm famously bad at admin.

I don't like admin. You are the admin king. You're basically taking, like, a little bit of. Here's a secret though. So there's actually, I have, I have an admin who's the real points guy. So I'm kind of a fraud deep down because I'm, who is the like candelopra? No, I mean, I have a full-time employee that tracks all my, I have 26 credit cards. But that's smart that you have someone.

Oh, totally. And for anyone listening who wants to get into the points game, you have to be maniac. You have to pay your bills off. It's not that complicated, but you have to pay your bills off in full every month. Because if you're getting hit with the interest on these travel cards, you're going to be losing the value of the points. points that you get. But by all means, get a couple different credit cards. The goal is to get credit cards that reward you for what you're spending on. So so many people will just be like, oh, I love Amex Platinum. I'm just going to put everything on it. Well, here's the T. The Amex Platinum is actually not the

best Amex or card in general for points earning. You're only earning one point on everything and then five on airfare. So you want to have the Amex gold, which is half the price less, gives you four X points on dining and groceries. So it's like you use certain cards for certain purchases. And that's how you just, you know, especially on tour, if you start paying for airfare for other employees, etc. It starts to add up real quick. Oh my God. Are you an organized person? So I am ADD. Okay. So I have a lot going on in my head and I can plan a trip like for 80 people and have all of the details. Like I know what's going on. Yeah. But when it comes to like, like tidying up my office like I'm a mad scientist right like my god same I have I could do a full

comedy set I know every single joke and I can organize it around and I could have a side conversation whatever like my gift certificate that someone gave me for free massage it's like forget about it how many Macy's gift certificates are up my asshole right now yeah okay this is I watched a Netflix thing about like money it was one of these things and they talked about credit cards on one of them and it was fascinating because they were like the way credit cards make money is because of the amount of people that don't pay their bills on time and like kind of don't know how to deal with the system. Because if we all were like you, credit card companies would go out of business. Well, not necessarily true. So there's what's called interchange. So the cost of the rewards

that everyone's getting is built in. So when you go to Starbucks and you pay with the credit card, if you pay with cash, it's the same price. You know, there's small mom and pop shops that might have that 3% surcharge, but that's very rare. So basically the cost of processing goods in the U.S. is built in to include points. So, and anytime you use your card at Starbucks, Starbucks is paying Amex, say, two cents per point or three percent of that transaction for the, you know, the joy. And Amex is basically kicking you back like one to two percent in value and they keep the rest plus the annual fees, plus the interest.

But the United States is the like mecca of points because we, you know, God bless our capitalist society. Like in Europe, these interchange rates are made. mandated at like really small amounts. In the U.S., it's really expensive to run credit cards. So that's why- Why is Finland happier? I know. Well, that's a loaded question as we hear helicopters outside the studio for an indictment of a president. No biggie. But points are the best in the U.S. So if you can take advantage, and there's so many credit cards,

there's probably 10 major credit card companies in the U.S. that are competing for your business. So the points game is really rich because not only can you get really high science, out bonuses. You can get 100,000, 150,000 points from one single credit card. That, if you know how to play the, you know, your points right, that's business class to Europe. Then you're earning points for spending and then putting the right car, you know, the right purchases. If you've got a small business, that adds up a lot. So there's never been a better time to earn points. Now, on the flip side, the airlines are making it harder to use points in a way where they're raising the points up and up. Yes. So for the people at home listening who are hoarders, and there's a whole contingent

of points people who have tons of points and then they have like I haven't ever spent a point decision paralysis coming to use them yeah that's not a smart strategy because your points will lose value over time so the goal is to earn points redeem them for insane trips take that money out of the table that was the question I wanted to ask you because everyone's like we want points we want points I've been spending tons of money on flights the last year and I've accumulated all these points but I no one ever told me when to spend them or how should because I'm mostly just flying work trips, should I just use the points immediately on the next trip, like pay and then use the points on the next one? Yeah, I mean, it just depends. So there's a couple different,

like people always ask, when should I use the points? So there's two key ways to use points. Now, the way that points nerds like me like to use points. So if you have Amex, Chase, city, built points, these are what we call transferable points currencies, meaning like they, Amex membership rewards is Amex's own currency. And then there's 30 plus partners that you can change. And then there's 30 plus partners that you can transfer to. And I'll just say, I was going to go to London this weekend. And Virgin Atlantic is a transfer partner and it's only 57,500 miles to fly upper class, their business class. It's a $10,000 ticket. Yeah. One way and it was like $800 in taxes and fees. So by transferring 57,000 miles to Virgin, I can get business class instead of paying the 9,000 they're charging for last minute. But that 57,000

points would be maybe less money somewhere else. If you use those 50, if you use those 50, 7,000 points on a SACs gift card with Amex, you're getting $400. So this is what I tell people, would you rather have a $400 gift card? And so many people are like, oh, free shoes, great. Or would you rather have an $8,000 business class ticket? So the transferring of- Why is that even a thing? It's just the way it works.

We're not going to ask questions. It's been this way for a while. And this is why I teach- Who's in charge of this shit? But I'm telling you when you, so for cheap domestic flights, you know, and if you're doing well in life we're saving two or three hundred dollars isn't going to fun it i i like to tell people use points where it gives you like real value in your life yeah there were times in my life where i was broke as fuck and i had a lot of points and i would use points for gift cards and because my bottom

line was so tight that i needed to get christmas gifts and i used my delta miles you know 10 years ago for all these gift cards that it saved my ass right and in that case good at the end of the day use your points for whatever makes you happy but you're saying you're saying use them though. It could be like a real high to feel like I'm going to Europe and I'm totally. And that's why the points like the people who religiously follow my site, it takes a while to learn this language and the transferring points and people are like, I'm glazing over.

I'm like, the thing is like, I mean, at the points guy, we've been around for 13 years. We've got 125 employees who we maniacally, if you search anything. So if you're listening now at home and you've got American Miles or Delta, we have tons of posts on how to maximize Delta miles. So what I recommend to people is whatever your currencies you have, if you're a city, thank you points, there is so much content existing on the internet. And I just think what's so cool about points is that there are currency that the more you mine your knowledge in, the more valuable they become. And that's what's really cool about it. And it takes a little bit of time and effort.

It's kind of an art form. Yeah. And the cool thing is it's like doing the crossword, but at the end of the day, your prize is not like or wordal, right? It's like bragging on social media, your whirl. No one cares. When you learn the points game, your gift is an insane trip on something that you probably wouldn't be able to afford. Like I still, like I can pay for business class, but I still get high when I redeem and, you know, I'm spending $400. And then I look at all the people on the plane who are spending a thousand in coach.

And I'm just like, if they only knew. Oh, my God. So it's, there's so many little hacks still out there. And all the information is on the internet. But you said sometimes the points could lose value over time. Yeah. So what I'm saying about that, I'm just going to use Delta, for example. So when I got into the points game in 2011, I was a Delta diamond.

And Delta had an award chart. And there were so many good deals. So it was 100,000 points round trip to fly Air France. And then you could actually, for 120,000, you could actually go to the Seychelles. So you could tack on for just 20,000 extra miles. You could fly another 10 and a half hours of the Seychelles. You could stop in Paris. So that was like 120 points do not have a like set value some airline so JetBlue and Southwest are me

programs because they're only going to give you like roughly a cent per point. So if you've got 100,000 points you're getting a thousand dollar flight. It's fine. None of the points people really love. We don't really mess around with JetBlue and Southwest because it's very it's pegged. You're only going to get. Do you remember when it was lit when it first started? I mean I love JetBlue mint. Don't get me wrong. But when it comes to points currencies, you want points currencies where you can And here's a tip. I mean, Delta is an amazing airline. Yes.

They win best airline at the points guy. Our readers vote on them. High quality, good customer service, clean planes. In America, like Delta's the best airline on time, et cetera. But their loyalty program, you know, Delta has such a good product that they don't need to give away the bank, right? And that's what they've decided. You know, they've got a good loyalty program. Is this recently that it's gone?

So if you price out Delta to go to Paris this summer, you're going to look at 700,000 miles round trip. Truly in business class. I mean, it's seven, 800,000 miles. Air France, so this is why having transferable points, instead of putting all your, you know, even if you're a Delta flyer, you don't put everything in Delta because once you have miles in an airline, you can't transfer out. You want to accrue, let's just say, Amex and put everything in Amex points.

If you want to send those Amex points to Delta, you can do so instantly. Or you have 29 other partners. So in the case of going to Paris business class, what I do is I transfer to Flying Blue, which is Air France's frequent flyer program. And it's 57,500 miles versus the same exact flight, 375 one way. Oh, my God. Virgin is the same. So Virgin has 57.

So these foreign frequent flyer program, that's where it's at. Anyone listening, you should know, if you have got Amex or chase points, you should know how to maximize Air Canada Aeroplane. It's one of the best loyalty programs out there. Sounds foreign, but it's Star Alliance. So it teams up with Singapore Airlines, Lufthansa. Yeah. And, you know, United will charge, let's just say, 120,000.

thousand miles to fly Singapore Airlines Newark to Singapore. Arrow plan is like 80,000. So you can transfer, you can choose a transfer. So you have the choice by leveraging transfer partners to kind of, we call them sweet spots. So all these sweet spots out there. And that's where like the joy in this points game is. Because you're putting like that a little bit more effort of like reading and understanding things.

Like I will book American Airlines flights and just like not, I don't even know if I've a login. Like, I'm not even a cumulative. That's not smart. I just started. But, like, at first I was like, I'm Delta. Yeah. When I had to do American, I was like, whatever stupid American Airlines. But, yeah, I've just been doing Delta.

That is so insightful and interesting. And even for people who are not traveling all the time, I feel like you want to have fun. You want to know how to maximize your potential. And if you're spending money on MX, that's a way to get a trip. And it's so cool. What I record, I let the points half the time, you know, I've been a lot of places. I always like going to new places. But I'll let the points to say.

side where I go. I'm like, you know. I let the point speak to me. And, you know, I'll go online. You know, there's a new website called point. And so the biggest thing is, like, people will say, well, how do you find this availability? Because Delta's website will only show you those 375,000 mile awards. They're not going to show you what Air France shows.

So you kind of, it is a little bit manual, but there's this new site tool called point. Dot me, and it scans all the airlines. And it will actually show you recently I went to Portugal for my birthday. and they had, it was just 43,000 points in business class on Iberia. So you had to fly through Madrid, which is an easy airport. So all of my friends, I emailed all my friends going to Portugal. I said, if you have 43,000 amics points, you fly business class to Portugal instead of spending six grand.

Well, you're such a good friend to have for these party trips, just waiting for your email. And then some of my friends were like, you're paying, right? I'm like, you know. So do you ever have like no points left? So I did a savvy move when I sold, so I sold the Points Guy in 2012 and one of the stipulations of my contract was that I had to still run all the expenses of the business on my personal credit cards. Wow. Which the company that bought us was like, they were like, great, we don't care. You know, like, you know, not a big deal.

But as the Points Guy's grown, like we spend millions of dollars on Facebook ads, Insta. Yes. And for any small business owners out there, if you're doing any internet advertising, there's two credit cards you must have. So Amex Business Gold will actually give. you four points per dollar on on the highest spend categories and uh online advertising is one of them the chase ink cards also have um a bonus on google facebook all that online spend so we spend you know there are times where there's like several million dollars a month just on facebook ads and that's all flowing through my cards wow so we use them for our points at the points guy are you know we

generally we generally don't take free trips from the airlines we use our own points when we review the airlines so that and I think that's what people like about the points guy like you're basically a food critic kind of you know I don't really review the airlines anymore because I'm flagged in most systems although I still have meltdown experiences on airlines so people are like oh you must be treated like gold wait what is flagged mean like they airlines now have like a list you know a lot of flight attendants who have iPads and they'll say they'll know that I'm an influencer so if shit goes wrong like they oh I didn't know this some airlines some airlines just don't care um Everyone else they treat like shit, and they're like, Mr. Brian.

Yeah. So most of our, I don't write posts that much anymore for the points guy. I write a weekly newsletter, but I'm also like the worst flight reviewer because I'm 40. I'm like, I've seen it all. Like I still love to fly, but like I'm sleeping on a plane. I smoke a cigarette. Yeah, I've seen a lot of shit. I'll fall asleep and then wake up in London and then my team will be like, where's the pictures of the food?

I'm like, ew, it's gross. Like I took a Xanax and woke up like at the gate. They're like, you are the worst. Oh, I, any moving plane, I'm immediately asleep. It's one of my superpowers. I am annoyed recently because I'll do some close transfers. That's a risky proposition these days. Risky, especially when like I might have a show one night.

The next morning I leave for another show and I have to be there before a 7 p.m. show. Like I financially will lose a gig if I don't get there. And they do this thing where like, like I got to LaGuardia once and I was transferring to Connecticut and I had 15 minutes and I they didn't update it on the app you know if like it's canceled they don't always update on the app so I went to like 81 when it was actually 65 it took me 10 minutes to get there that I still have where you're like can't find the gate you're in the air literally it was a nightmare and it's on my phone but it's like frozen because they had

whatever I run I get there two minutes after they shut the plane door and my biggest Pep Haven Life is when the plane is still there. Oh, yeah. And they're like, sorry, the door's closed. You know they get off. Some of those gate agents get off. They fucking get off on it. And I was like, can you open it?

And they're like, no. And I told myself, I don't know if this is truth, but I guess it like triggers all these like things to let people, whatever, there's a reason. But I'm like, now I have to Uber four hours to Connecticut. And I, apparently if there's like over 10 people, they'll wait. Sometimes. Some airlines don't care whatsoever. I once, I'll be like, hey, can you tell them I'm 10 minutes away?

And they're like, they don't have to wait for you. And I'm like, fuck you guys. Because it wasn't my fault. The plane's late. It's their fault. They had like a staffing problem. So anyway, I'm all up in that shit. So for airline apps, some are better than others.

Yeah. Use Flight Aware. So Flight Aware is an app where you can track. And these days with so many flights being canceled. Yes. What you need to do is stay ahead of the curve. So you have to use tools that make you a better traveler than everyone else. So Flight Aware will get you alerts.

on your flight. So if it's delayed, if the gate changes, um, you can also, you have to track your inbound aircraft. So a lot of times your flights are delayed because there may be chaotic weather, where your plane's coming from. So always track that. Because if you're, if you have the knowledge, oh, my plane's in this random airport and it's delayed getting out, you need to start thinking, how am I going to rebook myself? Because what happens is once the flight gets delayed, everyone runs up to the gate and they try to get rebooked. But you have to be savvy in one step ahead. So flight aware is really good. And also when you're sitting at the gate and you're like when is this flight actually going to go out flight aware will alert you when

the pilot files the flight plan and that's like when you're actually getting ready to go so if you're sitting in the lounge having drinks you're like I don't want to go to the gate and wait but when you get that push alert from flight aware like oh pilots filed the flight plan like we should probably go to the gate now have you hooked up with any pilots yes actually Zadis yeah I was in Tahiti yeah very nice guy but you were saying it is such an interesting like solo life like you're out there in the cockpit, that's hot. Cockpit just sounds hot. It sounds like a porno.

I know. I'm getting hot and bothered right now. But you were saying some of these pilots, it is hard in their mental health because I guess, but they chose like they wanted to be pilot, but I guess like they're not home a lot. Yeah. I mean, certain pilots are like taking care of like the more senior,

like in the airline industry, the more senior you are, you get paid a lot, you can take off time. The younger pilots are making like $22 an hour And there's a lot of, recently there have been new rules where they have to get a certain amount of time behind the hotel room door. Because with so many delayed flights, the airlines were really running pilots ragged. Wow.

Now they're trying to make the retirement age up because one of the biggest issues, like there's a huge pilot shortage. Like they're, you know, 20, 30 years ago, there were tons of pilots coming out of the Air Force. Yeah. People are not going into the Air Force anymore. Like there's huge gaps in. Gen Zs are not trying to be pilot. And even people want to be. It's like 200,000 to become a pilot.

You think they're going to do robotic pilots? I mean, eventually, I think, you know, we're shifting there. I don't think... Still hot. Anytime soon. Yeah. But scary. I also, I think the lifestyle of being a flight attendant is so fascinating, too.

Like, you're just... Talk about a vagabond. Yeah. Just traveling and seeing so many things. Did you... What do you prefer more? Traveling or just... Or the high of the math and the system and stuff?

Oh, no. So there's a lot of... unique people in the points world. I do think that there's a lot of like people who just like to stick it to the man. I mean, I like that, but I'm a traveler. Like there are people, points bloggers who will fly to Australia, never leave the airport and fly home just to get miles. Yeah.

That's called mileage running. It's harder to do nowadays. I never really did that because if I'm going to Australia, I'm going to turn up in Sydney. You know, I want to eat the food. I want to meet friends. Also, my lower back could be fucking killing me. And also, I'm at the, yeah, I'm at the point in my life, too, if I could teleport, I would. I mean, there are certain airlines where it's a divine experience.

You're getting Dom and caviar, but that's pretty rare, especially in the U.S. Like even, what are some Air. Emirates, so Emirates, Emirates, A380 first class. It's not the nicest first class suite, but it's the experience is unbelievable, unlimited caviard, dine on demand. I would just be puking. Yeah. They have the shower.

And my friend, I took my friend to Sydney once on Emirates, and he had like six tennis ball size of caviar his feet were like swollen up my god um from the salt you might as well go hard but the problem with flying those airlines is once you fly that it's like everything else is awful like yeah so i always tell people start slow don't honestly since i've now like been able to get upgraded to first class and stuff it's ruined normal me yeah once you're in economy you're like i don't belong here well i need to turn left it like i'm not even a large person and i'm like i can't fit in here Yeah. Well, the airlines have made the seats thinner. So for me, I'll fly in an exit row for a couple hours if I have to. But I literally, my, like, my ass goes numb because especially in the exit row, they're tiny little pads. And I'm like, my legs are numb. And it's just, it's crazy. It's crazy on planes in general, but especially back there. It's interesting to see, like, yeah, how it's evolving and stuff.

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It's unpredictable. It's raw. It's real. Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts. So you were like in finance? Yeah. Well, I worked at Morgan Stanley in like tech recruiting. So my job was to travel around to all the colleges

and convince computer scientists to join Morgan Stanley and not Google. And that was 2007, 8, 9, which was a very tough job because every tech, you know, every computer scientist wants to work, you know, in Silicon Valley. So, but because it was so hard. You know, what a stupid name, Google? Yeah, I know, right?

It's like, it's way more fun to work at Morgan Stanley, algorithmic trading. But they, because it was so hard to convince people to go to Morgan Stanley, I had an unlimited expense account. So I called up Amex one day and said, I'm spending, I mean, thousands and thousands of dollars. I was flying, you know, all the interview days, they were putting it on my credit card. So 50 kids would come in for interviews and I would put them all in my corporate Amex at their, you know, Times Square, crappy hotel.

So all of a sudden I was earning millions of points. And so I started traveling around the world. Like everyone at Morgan Stanley thought I was like a trust fund baby or stealing money from the company. And it was somewhere in between. It was just the points. And then so, yeah, so I basically just was minting millions of points while being an HR, you know, minion. And then I started the blog for fun in 2010.

It wasn't even a blog, actually. The points guy originally, I was charging people 50 bucks and I would plan them. I would basically be a travel agent and say, you want to go to Paris with 400,000 Amex? Like, here's how to do it. You should fly this random airline you would have never known about, you know, using all the kind of. Yeah, because I don't. You say points and I don't even in my head know, like, well, is that a good deal? But it's like you have to be seeing all the deals and know.

Yeah. And so people will pay for that. And there's a lot of websites out there now that will do this. So you really started in this like kind of small like passion for it. Yeah. One-on-one type consulting. Were you, did you want to be an entrepreneur? Yeah.

I mean, I always knew I was destined for greatness. As like silly as it is. I've always like. Been a big thinker. Yeah. Like my biggest fear when I was a kid was being mediocre in suburbia. Like, and I grew up in a. beautiful little town.

I just always knew, like, I just want to do amazing things. So I never quite knew what that was. But the funny thing is, in the 90s, I was doing points with my dad. I was always a computer whiz. And when I was 12, he was a consultant. So when I was 12, he said, if you can figure out how to use these points, we'll go on a family trip. And I had just read the firm by John Grisham and being the little closeted 12-year-old queen, I was like, I don't want to go to Orlando.

That's basic. So I literally picked up the phone. And there was no websites for, and I called U.S. Airways. I talked to a woman named Sheila, pretending to be my dad. You're like, stop bitch. Hey, girl, like, get me out of here. And actually, that's what I learned that being nice to airline employees, and even though you're angry, don't do it.

Like, I know it can take every part of your body to not yell at airline employees, but it will get you nowhere. You've got to be strategic. They have a lot of power. They have so much power. And yelling, you will not win by yelling. It may make you feel good in the second. But be strategic.

Ask them how their day is. Also, they did not do it to you. Like, it's not careful. The airline employee wants you out of their face. Full stop. They don't like you. You smell to that. You know,

like they're not doing this on purpose. So if you want them to help you, they don't care that you booked a 41 minute layover to your $20,000 cruise. I was fucking diamond. How could you train you like that? So I learned early on to be nice. And I booked us.

We went to the Cayman Islands when I was 12. My parents and I laugh about this today. They were like, how did we let our 12-year-old? But it was the most amazing trip. And actually, we rented a Verbo. It was right when Verbo first launched. And it was a rental house from a doctor in New Jersey

who had this house in the Cayman Islands. And it was like the price of one hotel room. Our family of six was in this house on the beach. Amazing. So, yeah. So when I've always had a gift for it. And I've always had a gift for writing. I have a crazy imagination.

And my parents saved a lot of, you know, my teachers would always be like, write a short story about your weekend. And I'd come back with a bound novel. the stunning life of Brian Kelly, you know. You were romanticizing your suburban life. I've always just, you know, been extra. I think my fifth grade teacher wrote on my report card,

Watch Out World, here comes Brian. What's your sign? Pisces. Oh, I love. March 7. Ooh, I love. I've heard that there are more billionaire Pisces than any other sign. I don't know if that's true, but I want to believe it.

I'm not a billionaire. Maybe in points, actually. I mean, the concept of billionaire is like crazy. just like the things I actually don't want that much I have a billionaire friends and it's it is so true more money more problems I don't feel also like it is more money more problems then also yeah the worth of things gets all confusing we're like why we shouldn't be billionaires but also then it's like you almost feel like when do you stop giving back like I almost feel like every employee at least give them a $20,000 like how much do you need it just

it becomes like conceptual and fucked up it's like life is simpler when you're like oh I just want to get something nice for my kid or something yeah speaking of kids Congratulations. Wait, Dean. Dean James Kelly. What a handsome name. Oh, my God. It's so cute.

Dean Kelly is the coolest kid. He's about to turn six months. Oh, my God. My nephew, I mean, sorry, my niece is around that same six months, like, age. And it's freaking adorable because they started to giggle. Has he giggling. So what I recommend, for any parents out there, I split. I only got, I got like three months of paternity.

So I did the six weeks in the beginning. And the beginning's chaos. right like the you know they're sleeping and just shitting all day it's amazing and i'm glad i bonded with him and i took that six weeks but i'm glad that i also saved some for i did another three weeks around my 40th birthday when he's five months i love you're dealing with maternity like points it's amazing i know splitting it up maximizing it i built in a stopover on my paternity journey you go times five if you put it at this time but it's and it's certainly you know he's been the six countries in his five months on this earth he's an amazing traveler he's an amazing travel

Just like his dad. And everyone says just start them early. And babies will always cry. No one's going to have a perfect baby. But you learn pretty quickly. I mean, the biggest thing in parenting is they feed off your energy. So if you're stressed out about traveling with your kid and panicked and like your kid's probably going to be on edge. So I try to just be as calm as, you know, collected.

Even when he was crying on the plane flying home recently. And it's just like, okay, I've got to like just deep brass. And I, you know, you figure out ways to rock them and calm them and stuff. So it's, I love this example because I'm, you know, I'm 31. I'm married. Everyone's like, do you want to have kids, whatever? And I have kind of a crazy lifestyle and people talk about having it all. And I love that you have this life that definitely does not seem from the outside, like, easy to have children.

You're always traveling. You're an entrepreneur. You have a lot of responsibility. Are you single? I am single. You did IVF, which is obviously a process. Like, and against all odds, you've created a family. Yeah.

I always knew I wanted to create a family, but, you know, I was 27 when my business took off. You know, I went for making 60,000 a year in HR, you know, my first six months of blogging. I made a million dollars. Like, it was this crazy wild turn of events, you know, I never in a million years. But you can never go back after that. I sold the money, you know, I sold the company in 2012. I'm still working for it. It's been a really amazing run.

But I'm glad I spent my 30s traveling. I had so much fun. Yeah. For me, you know, I think there is a lot of resentment. among parents. And I give so many parents credit who do give up their life to raise kids and forego the things that they wanted to do. And I'm, you know, I had my son at 39. And, you know, luckily, you know, so I'm happy that I waited. And now IVF is so amazing, you know, even for women who can freeze eggs and there's so much more knowledge around, you know, the technology.

Being able to like, yeah, to save your eggs when you're younger. Oh, thank you. Great skin, by the way. Oh, thank you. Great skin. I do also think, like, I'm similar to you where I always was like, oh, I do amazing things. I want to change the world. But then there's a part of me that always was like, I want to have like a cat sanctuary or like rescue pit bulls and have a farm in Montana. Yeah. So you have both, you've created this insane jet setting life, but then you also have like a farmer lifestyle.

Well, I had, you know, 2020 was, you know, I think Claudia mentioned it in her last tour. She's like, God, don't you hate those people that are like, that? The pandemic was perfect for me. You know, millions of people died and you think it's, you know. So I'm that basic friend who's like, it was great. You know, I couldn't travel. I had never, you know, I was just always on the go. You know, the points guy just kept growing and growing.

I think I was still. I love that it's kind of like your older ego, the points guy. Yeah. And I was just nonstop. And then 2020 was like a baseball bat to the face. I was actually engaged. I was. So it was like March 8th of 2020.

I broke up with my ex-fiance, the world crashed, travel stop, borders closed, and I went home, rescued of pit bull. Oh, my God. Marshall. Shout out home for good dogs in New Jersey. That's what we did. We fostered pit bulls during the pandemic. He's pit in a third-cocker spaniel, a beagle and charpey.

He's a little mutt. I like joke. I saved Marshall. He was on death row. And Marshall saved me. Oh, it's not going to cry. Anyone who meets, Marshall's like the sweetest dog in the world. And it's crazy how it's the simple things, though.

Well, it's just like, I was traveling around the world. And then it's like all of a sudden I'm so in Pennsylvania, the quarantine hits. And I'm just like going the simplest thing of going on a walk with my rescue dog. I was like, just help me bring things down so many notches. And that's when I was like, I want to have kids. It's probably going to take a couple years. So I started that process. And you didn't.

And you were like, and I don't need no man's. Yeah. No, you know, because I was like, I was rushing into my last. I'm still friends with my ex-fiance. say I was rushing in because in my head, I was like, okay, well, I need to be married. So I've sold my business. I'm doing well in life. You're checking the boxes.

Here's a hot guy who's really fun. And we had a lot of fun together. He was not who I'm supposed to be with long term. But I was rushing into it because I'm like, let's just get married because now I really wanted kids. And then when I had the moment of clarity, like, I don't need a man to have kids. I'm so, I'm fortunate enough. I mean, thank God.

I have nannies who are life, you know, shout out to all the caregivers out there. It is. Well, you've set up your life in a way that you've enabled that you don't have to give up a lot of things. And I love, I love the non-traditional aspect to it because sometimes they make families so black and white. And even as like a modern woman who isn't thinking about kids yet, you don't have to just be in a cottage alone, like painting the walls with overalls. In the beginning, I was like guilty because I have nannies. And I mean, I've always been very open on social media. It was crazy how many people say, thank you for being open about having nannies and night nurses because

Well, your mental health is the more important. And I now have, in the beginning, I was a little nervous. Like, am I not spending enough nights? You know, and I was sleeping in the beginning. And I actually, I've been on this fitness journey. I was like 40 pounds heavier a year ago. I think leading up to my son's birth, I was like, I had this epiphany. I need to get my, I want to be a hot, young, healthy, you know, dad.

So all of a sudden, I was in a really good fitness routine. And then when my son came and I was on paternity, I was like, everyone is like, you're going to gain 30 pounds. Everything's out the roof. Your life's over. you're not going to date. And I felt guilty because, like, I had an amazing night nurse who was like, no, you be the best version of you. So every day when I was with my son, I had the luxury.

And I give props to so many parents. I get now why people are like being a stay-at-home mom's the hardest job in the world. There is no job in corporate America that has even been remotely as hard as taking care of an infant, which is just nonstop. Like, corporate America, you can always go to a coffee break. You can't turn it off. And I, you know, the sleepless nights. still did a lot of those nights with my son. But in the end, though, I still kept up fitness. I feel

great. What's your, like, health routine when you were like, I want to get my shit together? I, so for me, it was, uh, I was not doing enough, like cardio. So I started doing Orange Theory fitness. Oh, yeah. Actually, when I was on paternity, my surrogate was in California. And I was out there for, like, weeks before I was in Montecito. Yeah. So I was going to Santa Barbara, Orange Theory. It was beautiful weather. And I was just like in this. So running is what I had, I always had a gut. I've never, like, been able to take my shirt off on social media. And then, like, just a couple months ago. Now I'm just being, like, a thirst trap queen.

A fatty man. You know, a baby in my arm and muscles, like, and I'm proud of it. Dads are, like, there's something about dads that are just hot. Because you're, like, not only is he good looking, but he can take care of me, you know? Well, I think, you know, I'm very open, like, on dating profiles, like, very open with having a child. You know, if you don't want to have kids, totally get it, but let's not waste anyone's time. No. But I definitely think my interest, like, I have no worries.

about dating. I've been, when he came in October, I was like, I don't even want to be dating someone because I just wanted to be. I couldn't imagine juggling this new baby and also a new relationship. Like, I just wanted to. Yeah. But now, New Year, like, back in the dating scene. And I think people look and say, you were a single person who wanted to have a kid.

Like, even when I went to the post office, they had never seen a single dad on a birth certificate. Everyone at the post office was like, come here, come here. He wanted to have a kid. Like, he's a single dad that wanted to. And, like, all the women were just like, that's so cool. Well, they read somewhere that you always wanted a family. I always, always wanted it. I'm one of four kids.

My mom's one of 10. Oh, my God. I have 11 nieces and nephews. Yeah. Oh, my God. So it's just, like, deep down. Just a bunch of Irish twins. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my, my siblings have, there's so many Irish twins. So the K, I have 40-some cousins. So I grew up with the chaos of family events. And I was kind of a free-range child. Like, I'm part of, I'm not, I'm like, that generation where my parents would let us go out on our bikes all day, like, come home for dinner, like in the summer. So see you later, I figured out.

So I started riding horses in 2020. So I rescued a dog, started riding horses, which I always loved horses and animals. And I was taking my nieces to horse lessons. One day I just asked the trainer, who was really hot in Spanish, straight. I'm actually officiating his wedding next week because he now works for me full time. I said, hey, I'm 37 and, you know, I'm 6'7. and can I do English riding, which is like really beautiful.

Have you ever ridden? I rode once. Yeah. So, you know, most people do Western trail rides when you go to a, you know, you're just like in a line. English riding is beautiful.

Dressage, which is when the horses like tap their legs up and then jumping, which is like just what a sport where you're on a 1,200 pound beast barreling towards a jump and you need to work together to like, so anyway,

I started English riding just for fun. So English running is basically horse riding if you're fabulous. Kind of, yeah. And you basically learn it's all about balance. Your back has to be straight. You can control this horse. It's like a dance.

It's amazing. Building a deep connection with this animal and horses are prey animals, meaning they're like pre-programmed to run from everything. So when you can build this relationship and trust with this big beast that like it's been the most amazing thing. Well, it sounds like you've created all these connections that you didn't have before 2020 of like with a child with these animals. I was like, that's like a different kind of love than you have just like living day-to-day, single person, New York City.

Yeah. The New York City, I love New York. I moved here right after college, but, you know, New York, I still have to split my time now because it's like too much time in the city. It's just not for me. How do you choose when to get air and leave versus be in the city? Well, luckily now my work is, we're still pretty much fully remote. And I go on TV a lot, but I have, you know, a TV studio and, you know, my New York apartment and the farm. I mean, I'm mostly farm like long weekends

and then I'm in the city during the week. I do love the energy of New York City. And the town New Hope I'm in in Pennsylvania is such a cute town. It's 90 minutes outside of New York. I highly recommend for anyone who wants a cute trip outside in New York. Great restaurants.

It's on the Delaware River. It's just like this idyllic little town. But like, you know, it's very gay, gay friendly, but it's mostly all like older married gay. So I have no dating life there. So it's like this change. challenge because I'm like in the city. Basically, I'm like in the city looking for my husband then I can hopefully like put in my jaws and just bring to the farm. Oh my God. I love that so much.

So yeah, I'm in the city during the week and then farms on the weekends. But we're going to get a little darker. Okay, darker. We're going to play the seven deadly sins just to get a little deeper. I get to know you a little bit better. You may have to read me some of the definitions of these words. True. What are you greedy about? I would say I'm greedy with my time. I think ever since having a baby, like the opportunity cost is too high. I've actually lost, you know, not I've trimmed down my friends for sure and how I prioritize my time.

And not that I like am just obsessed with being around my baby, but like events, I feel like there was a lot of wasted time in the past or doing things that like didn't actually bring me joy. Yeah. So I would say I'm greedy with my time, almost to the point where I do feel guilty sometimes. Like I have a lot of nieces and nephews and I'm like, am I not spending enough time with them? But at the end of the day. I can't wait to have a kid as an excuse to say no to thing. That's the best. No one can say anything.

Yeah. It's like what you don't support my child. Yeah, seriously. My baby. I love that so much. Who are you envious of? Like we discussed, like the money and fame, there's, that's, I don't have an envy on that side of things. I love, I mean, what brings me immensely

is concerts and music. And so Celine Dion is my queen of queens. She's amazing. I've met her twice. And it was like, she actually has a song, Taking Chances, which when I was quitting Morgan Stanley, all of my friends, even my parents, like, you can't quit to become a blogger.

And I was listening to Taking Chances, walking through Times Square. And I literally had an out-of-body experience where she was speaking to me and was like, take the jump, do it. like not knowing what's below she's also hilarious she's hysterical she's just like such a well-rounded amazing badass so i go to her shows and it's just that is my so perform so i'm envious of singers people who have like voices that can transcend like when you think about if i was ever like to be a

major performer it would absolutely be like a can you sing at all i cannot sing it all Claudia my even singing selene dion in the car by myself i'm like oh and of course i love the adels I'm the same way. I can't. It's like a dying way. I think I'm envious of people who can sing. Yeah. Even karaoke is like awkward.

You just ruined the party. You're like, I'm sorry. What do you gluttonous about? So what do you overindulge in? Oh, well, this is kind of easy because I just, I was very gluttonous this year. So I turned 40 on March 7th. And, um. I got fresh.

Oh, yes. I saw some of the. So I decided. So I'm becoming a Portuguese. citizen that I um there's this golden visa program where I invested in a hotel in 2020 I was Googling like how do I get an EU passport so Portugal has this amazing golden visa program so I love Portugal it's becoming like my second home it's the third safest country in the world it's so affordable I just wanted to share that with a lot of my friends so I sent an email out to maybe 90

people thinking that like 30 would have you know it's Portugal and March like almost every single person ars who pd yes so then i'm like okay well what do we do so i like went there so i basically i went all out and i'm like you know what i'm not going to get married you know i was about to get married and luckily i was a week away from deposits and all that so i avoided a big yeah i dodged a bullet so i kind of put what i was going to spend on a new york city wedding into my 40th and i have zero regrets but it was gluttonous it was three nights um that's like a memory that i rented a castle on the beach I had Kim Petrus perform. Oh my God.

Shangela. I couldn't get Celine Dion. She's actually sick now. But what I did was, I don't know if you've seen Titanic off Broadway. No. It's so Titanic. I've heard of it, though. You have to go.

So it's basically the Titanic as if Celine Dion was on it. It's hysterical. Marla Mendel is the lead. She plays Celine and she does the most perfect Celine Dion. So I flew her out to Portugal. So she like emceived the main dinner. Everyone, I mean, it was like...

I just feel like from this like business that you started as a blog, it's just made your world so big. And you just, I really, you said you're creative in the beginning of a big imagination. I always believe that your life is limited by your imagination. And I think you're a great example of a person that's mine just like runs fucking wild. And you just make it a reality, which if you can't imagine it, you can't do it. It's so funny. When I was up on stage, people were like, why did you do this?

And truly, when I was, like, 12 years old, I was obsessed with Lil Kim. She was my number one deep. I almost had her come, but she, you know, I like a performer. No offense. She doesn't really perform like. But anyway,

but I was a little gay boy sitting in bed in Jamison, Pennsylvania. And I thought about my 40th when I was a kid. And I was like, one, and it probably was thinking like a wedding. I'm going to throw the fucking party to end all parties. And yeah, I just kind of went. It just kept going and going.

And it's funny because it was the weekend. of Silicon Valley Bank collapsing. So imagine this. It's a three-night affair. It was so fun, but I'm exhausted mentally, like emotionally just hung over from like emotionally and then on that Sunday. And then I'm like also, okay, I spent a lot of money. And then it's like global financial crisis going to liquidate every bank, everyone's poor.

I'm like, on one side I was like, well, at least I threw the big party. You know, like, well, I could. I was sitting there in bed just like, but yeah, so I'm gluttonous for that. There's no more, no more big parties for a while. But that's amazing. Life is fucking short. You have to enjoy it. When was the last time you were a sloth, so like lazy?

I would say, I mean, nowadays I'm super active, like almost too active where I ride horses. I do berries. I train. I have a baby. I go and walk. You know, like, I'm actually, I think I need to be more sloth-like. Like, do you give yourself off days? Here and there, I do.

But I would say, I mean, a year. ago, I was almost 270 pounds. I look back now and it's crazy because sometimes I'll do press that doesn't come out for like six months. Yeah. And then they'll share it. And I'm like, this is embarrassing because my face is like bloated. You're like, oh, sorry, the audio's bad. I can't share. So it was like April of 22, I would say was my heaviest and I was traveling. I was like, I had gotten out of whack and I was just like eating, traveling. I'm just happy, but like I was not active. And I think once I realized like my son is coming, like October's going to to be here. That was kind of what kind of kicked me into gear. Do you have any, like, hacks for

when you have those long flights or just normal flights on like your body health, like staying hydrated and- The hydration thing is huge. I cannot recommend enough stretching. So I go to stretch space in Chelsea. So every week for 50 minutes, I get stretched on a heated table with like a person. Wait, I need to do this. It has changed my life because, I mean, no matter what you're sitting, there's a lot of different stretching places out there now. Yes. I've been, it's funny. I actually think I've gotten taller.

I'm six, seven, but people always are like, you got taller. And I think it's because of like my posture, your core. So in tandem with like every time I'm home from a flight or even before like getting stretched has been every we're always, you know, our shoulders. We're on our phones. I flew six times last week. And I'm going to like Richmond, Tallahassee, random places. My lower back's killing me right now.

I had, woke up with like acne the other day. My skin is so dry. I'm like bloated out of my mind. So that's really good. Stretching. That's really good because I can really touch my toes. This is a hard one. When was the last time you let your pride or your ego get in the way of something?

Well, this is kind of this past weekend. You're like today. So I love blackjack. I love to gamble. I don't do it a lot. I'm not a degenerate gambler. but I am the type I think Claudia made fun of me

in her last like show like she calls me a toxic gambler because like my pride like my mantra is play to win like that's what life is just go I like failure is not an option I can be a little silly fun time no and like if I'm down

I'm gonna double down to get back because I'd rather take a risk to end up winning than to lose you know like so I think sometimes gambs I know and I don't go too too crazy like I've never gambled to a point where I'm like

like you have to like it was uncomfortable no yeah yeah but um i would definitely say you definitely like taking risk i do i do but you can't get great things without the risk and i'm not i mean i've been a very lucky person in life like there have been things you know like in general so um so yeah my gambling i probably could you know when a table's bad you just have to step up like stand up walk away take a breath and um but i do believe it's riskier to not take risks totally because then that means nothing can happen. Nothing ventured, nothing can. Also, lucky girl syndrome is a thing.

Like, you even saying into the world right now, I have a lot of luck. That is perspective. Like, someone else could have your life and be like, oh, I actually, this didn't happen for me. That didn't happen. So it is a really powerful mindset. When was the last time you lusted over someone? Oh. Well, it's springtime.

I know. It's like the most gorgeous day today. Yeah, it's 70 degrees. I've been on a lot of dates lately. Okay. It's like things are going well. But there's this, there's this Instagram influencer from Italy who we've had like a little DM romance. And just last night he was literally, he was in my dreams.

And he's like coming to New York this week. Like one of the most handsome people, like, he makes me like heart flutter. And he like DMs me like he'll just comment like cutie and stuff. So what's your type? So I don't have a specific type. I mean, my exes have been all like racially height wise. Like I generally like, I like nice guys. Like, there's a lot of, like, muscle, like, a musly, like, kind of gym rat, toxic.

You don't want a fuck boy. No. I've been there, done that. Yeah. I don't want a gas lighter. There's a lot of, like, gas lighters out. That's, like, my big trigger. Like, people who have, like, a lot.

There's a lot of gay guys with unresolved trauma. Yeah. Especially culturally, there's certain, like, there's a lot of. Inner demons. And they bring that out. And I think I do have, like, dad energy, which I embrace. But, like, I have a son. I don't want to, like, be the father to my partner.

You're so right. So I like nice boys, you know, good families, want to have fun. How about their career? Do you want someone in like a similar entrepreneurial gig or do you? It's so funny. I don't care. I mean, to be honest, I am nervous at meeting someone with a similar structure to me because I'm not really willing to give up my farm or, you know, my family is amazing.

So selfishly, I'm totally fine. I would love, you know, someone who can work remote and travel. You just created such a great lifestyle for yourself. You don't want something to just get demolished. I would love for someone to, like, of course, like you create a life together. But I struggle with thinking someone who has a high power job and their own house upstate, like, how do you actually make that? You're right. And you, you've, it's taken so much time to get to where you are and know who you are and what you want.

But I do think you'll know when you find that guy because you're so, like, true to yourself right now. Yeah. Just me manifesting. Final question. You've done amazing. You've done amazing. What advice would you give to the listeners on how to cope with your hell when you're going through it, when it's dark, when shit's not going your way?

I would recommend, I mean, I would just say animals are amazing and people can be awful. Like I think, I mean, my personal hell is like when the people you love, I've had my fair share of, you know, with instant success, like jealousy. I've had a best friend years ago who was an interior designer who stole money from me because I was letting him do my house. And I think when people are awful, you never betray you like that. They never will. They might, you know, you may teach you a lot of lessons.

You may fall off the horse, but you always get back on. So I would say, even if you don't have time to, like, rescue a dog, like go volunteer to shelter, take dogs on a walk. Like, that has been for me, you know, and horse. I cannot say enough. I did an equine therapy session at the CEO retreat years ago. Grown CEOs of adult, like you bring your true self to horses because they smell everything. And when you finally open up, it's actually amazing with like the equine therapy with kids with disabilities.

Yeah. The power of horses, I will just say even if you don't want to ride them, just being around a horse can totally inexplicably help you reset. Because yeah, your life is a bunch of mirrors, I feel like. And when you're surrounding yourself with the wrong people, it's like reflect it. You see yourself differently. But when you're surrounded by the positivity of animals, it's so pure. It really is. And you need that sometimes.

Yes. It's like we've got to take ourselves out of toxic loops. It's almost like a reset. Yes. It's like nostalgic too to like just be in that like kid like way where you're just playing with an animal. Or even if for some people who don't like animals, just nature, right? Like get put your phone down.

Yes. And just get out of your own head. Yeah. I love it so much. Brian Kelly. where can people follow you, watch you, like, give them all the tea. So my personal Instagram is at Brian Kelly. So that's like my life day to day on the farm and first class.

From the farm to first class. I love it. I'm like a sound bite machine today. But the points guy.com download the points guy app, which is actually will help you track all your points. Wait, I need to do that. It'll give you your net worth and points. And I think for people that's first step in getting into the points game is just knowing what you have.

How's Claudia Oshery with her points? Claudia is so much better than before. When I met her, she had a debit card. That's why I DM'd Claudia and said, you dumbbo? She's like, I don't know why I can't get first class with my Chase debit card. And I DM'd her like six years ago. I'm like, you're an idiot. Like, you are.

She's like, come on my morning show. So I whipped her into shape quick. She used her points to go first class to Portugal. So Claudia is a great traveler. I love it. She's a great example of someone. one that's learned and grown. She was a lost cause. Claudia Osprey can do it people. You can too. So download, check it out. I'm obsessed with you. Thank you so much for coming on. See you guys

later. Bye. Safe travels.