Berner Phone - Doug Ellin: Creating Entourage & Fighting Success

Episode Date: January 27, 2021

Doug Ellin opens up about what is was really like to write Entourage and the hell we went through to get there and how the hell things are going now. Episode promo codes: Liquid IV: Get 25% off with promo code BERN at https://LIQUIDIV.COM Ritual: Get 10% off your first 3 months at https://ritual.com/BERN ExpressVPN: Get 3 months free at https://expressvpn.com/bern --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sadly, I've always gone back at them. When people criticize me, especially now with social media, like I get in so many fights on Instagram, go fuck yourself. You go live in your basement, you fucking loser, you know? Welcome to Burning Hell. Okay, what's up, guys? Welcome to another episode of Burning Hell. We have a very special guest today.

He's an American screenwriter, film and TV director, known best for creating the HBO television series Entourage, has been nominated for five Emmy Awards winning one, no big deal, and also has won a PGA Award, a BAFTA, Peabody. But we're going to break him down today. We have Doug Ellen on Burning in Hell. Thank you for coming. Thank you. And I got to be out of some very nervous. I'm not going to lie. I listened to a couple of your episodes this morning, and I was like, whoa, I was.

not ready for like a psychological analysis of me, which is a disaster, by the way, but I'm ready. Well, I was very excited for this pod because I found out you're from Brooklyn and I'm also from Brooklyn. So we have that common blood. Now, I was born in Brooklyn. My family is from Brooklyn, but I moved to Long Island pretty early on, but Brooklyn's strong still. And Strong Island, they would say. Yeah. Where in Brooklyn is your family from? I mean, I was born in my commodities hospital and my parents were Avenue J. So I don't know. Bensonhurst or whatever, but I've been gone for a long time. And when I go back to Brooklyn now, it's to go to like, you know, Missy restaurant and things like that. And where are you based now? Los Angeles, which is weird,

because I still feel very New York, but I've been here 30 years. Well, it's funny because coming from New York, I feel like we all have very New York strong, New York connection. And you spent so much of your life writing about the LA scene. Yeah. How did you know about this LA scene and how'd you honestly feel about the scene? Because it's so different than New Yorkers. I mean, to be honest, it's weird because I'm not even a scene person and I was never like kind of the going out kind of guy or an entourage kind of guy, even though a lot of the show was based on my childhood friends, but I've never been the guy who travels with like a pack or goes on the guy's trips to Vegas. I've just never been that guy. But, uh, you know, it's weird because I have two kids.

now. And even when someone asked them where they're from and they say Beverly Hills, I like elbow them. I'm like, what are you talking about? Don't say that. And they're like, what do you mean? That's where we're from. And I just. You did that to them. I did that to them. And I feel bad about it. But I still, even though, which is so weird, I was in New York for 17 years. Then I went to college in New Orleans and then I moved to L.A. the next day. So I'm really not even a full New Yorker anymore. But there's nobody who meets me that goes, oh, you must be from L.A. So I've kept my New York essence somehow. I eat a lot of Italian food, too. Yes, yes. There's good Italian in L.A., I feel like. You know what? There is great stuff now. The food scene has gotten much better. When I first got here, it was not good. But I've been here long before you were even alive if I was here.

Well, thank you. New Yorkers are food snobs. Whenever I eat Chinese food, I'm like, is this good, though? Is this real? Flushing? Would they approve? It's true. So, Doug, you went on to, like, there's a bunch of kids who dream of writing an awesome TV show. Were you one of those kids who dreamed of that? Like, did you think that you would be a successful writer? Were you manifesting it? Was it something that you, like, really believed in for yourself? You know, I don't, you know, it's tough because I don't want to piss people up.

But I went to college, and I had very conservative, hardworking parents who believed in education and getting real jobs. I'm a Jew. And it's like, you'd be a doctor. or a lawyer 30 years ago. And nothing about my life was kind of leading me to Hollywood. And when I was graduating college, one of my friends, I was just kind of like this bitter, angry fuck who would see comedians and go,

that guy sucks, he sucks. One of my friends signed me up for an amateur night. And was like, okay, tough guy, go do it. So I did an amateur night in college. And it wasn't that I was hooked, but I was like, you know what? I got to really, like, what do I want to do? So I told my parents, I'm not going to law school. I'm moving to L.A. to pursue my dreams of stay.

I mean, my mother cried. It was like I might as well have told her that I murdered somebody. It was that bad. And, you know, they put all this money that, you know, my parents worked hard to make sure they could pay for college. And, you know, 30 years ago, education seemed like a much bigger deal than I think it does today. But they could not believe what I was doing. And I had, you know, friends of my father would call me up and be like,

you're ruining your parents' lives. What are you doing? And so it was an interesting time for sure. Do you have any other siblings that they could have put their hope in? Oh, yeah. I have my older brother who went to Harvard Law School and is a genius. And then my middle brother, who was very successful in investment banking and they had stable lives and made lots of money. And I went to L.A. with nothing. And they're going, we're not supporting this. So it was interesting. I love that story though because I feel like you can put your work ethic like if you're if you're a special person who really cares and wants to be successful, you can do it in so many different places, but you consciously were like, you want you went to be a standup basically is why you first went to L.A.? Yeah. And how did it go? I mean, to be totally honest with you, it went pretty good for the amateur nights, but I hated everything about the lifestyle and I don't like comedians to be honest with you. Not all of them, but some. of them when you're when you're with a bunch of comedians and they're all doing bits all the time i find it like a very unnatural irritating thing oh yeah it's just like whose dick is bigger and then like

they don't want to turn off and you're like hey you could stop being a clown for a second and just be normal exactly so you know but i was going to these things and i was getting drunk every night because i was so nervous to get on the stage and you know i but i it was going pretty well and mark lano who who was an owner of the improv at the time. He thought I had some potential. And then I was working in the mailroom at New Line Cinema and I did a show to raise money for a short film I wanted to do. Again, I'd never been on a film set in my life.

So I was raising money to go make a short film. And everyone's like, what do you know about this? And I'm like, I don't really know much. But Mike DeLuca, who was VP of Newline at the time, came to my stand-up act and gave me $10,000 to go do this short film. Wow. But where my comedy came into some bad things, I did pretty well. I had some smart jokes.

It was about getting your presence down, which I wasn't quite there with yet, which is obviously a key. But I started getting a little talky, so I went back to New York, and I had some friends in New York, and I put together a thing. I'm not sure if it was Carolines, I don't even remember, but I brought 300 people from Long Island to come see me do stand up. I was on the marquee and I was nobody. I'm an amateur, but I said, I'll fill this place for you. And they said, great. So we got there and all the- You go, mom, call the PTA.

We need everybody. Exactly. And they brought it. Okay, so we get out there. I'm on the marquee. There's professional comedians who are like, who the fuck is this Doug Ellen on the marquee? And why is this place crowded?

And I got up and the biggest thing they'll ever tell you is don't do a new joke. Don't try something you haven't tried before. So I get up, and I swear to you, I'm not, again, I'm not saying I would have ever made it as a comedian, but I never really bombed in L.A. I got some laughs. People said you're smart, get more comfortable work, blah, blah, blah. I get up, I do this new joke.

I mean, first of all, I see my best friends, my girlfriend from fifth grade, my parents, my aunt. I do this new joke, and there's crickets. I mean, there's not a laugh. And I say, thank you, good. And I get off the stage, all these people had driven in from Long Island. And the next day was just horrific. I mean, my parents, my mother called me up in a very serious tone and said,

you're not good at this, okay? You're not good at this. So like, do something else. Go back to law school. Get your life together. Basically, you're going to be fucked. So that's where it all happened. I love a failure story.

turns that makes you realize what like your course correction should be um but to be a good stand up you have to be a great writer and i don't think people know that a lot and to write such a great comedy show you have to have that funniness did you always consider yourself funny or you just kind of new your kid that grew up around funny friends i mean i considered myself funny other people would have to talk about what they thought but yeah when i was growing up people always said i should have a talk show i should do this nobody ever said i should go to law school or do anything scholastically because I was horrible at that, except my parents who kept telling me, you're going to be a lawyer, you're going to be this. I'm like, but I'm really

fucking stupid. I go into these classes. I don't know what the hell anybody's talking about, you know, so, um, but, you know, my mother was always of the mindset. You could, you could do anything you set your mind to, provided it's what your father and I think you should do, you know? So that was kind of the thing. We believe in you for anything that we believe in that you should do. Exactly. When did they turn or have they turned to be like, wow, we are so proud of you. Oh, my God. I mean, you know, like when they're all of a sudden there were premieres and there were things like this, you would have thought, you know, my father and I were doing sketches in the kitchen when we were growing up, you know, we always do it, make it, you know. But my father was a very, I mean, the truth is they were very, they were very honest, always and realistic. And, you know, the first thing I did when I got out of film school, I got hired. to do this movie for 40,000 bucks.

And it was like shot in six days. And it was just an amazing opportunity for me as a kid to get, you know, a couple of bucks to go shoot something. But they then sold this movie around the world and it was playing in theaters. And it was fucking horrible. It was not good. And the New York Times writes this review that this movie, how is this movie in a movie theater?

Like, what is going on here? And so that obviously then becomes even worse than that. stand-up thing. My parents, like, the big thing was the New York Times, and they're reading this stuff. And I actually did an episode on Entourage of this where, you know, Johnny Drama's character gets a bad review in the New York Times. And that was at the time, that was like horror show. So really, when I officially made it to them, even though I had two movies in the theaters before that and was making my way, when Entourage came out and the New York Times said it was the best show on television, that's when, you know, I got a call from my mother

crying and you're going to make it and I can't believe it. So, you know, that was, that was cool because to be honest, it was a big motivating factor in my life to impress my parents. It really was. I mean, a lot of kids like say they don't give a shit, but at the end of the day, my father was successful, my brothers were doing really well. So that was a big thing. It's funny how something so simple is just like, I want my daddy to love me and be proud, but you're a grown-ass man. And with your sense of humor and your creativity, were you always creative growing up? I feel like a lot of bros come up to you and they're like, you're the bro from Altaraj, but you're not really that person.

At all. I'm not that person at all. So, I mean, to be honest with you, what I was was an ADD kid before they knew what ADD was. So I was told I was a lazy fuck my whole life. Like that's what I was told in class by my parents. you're so smart but you're lazy and you know listen i was and i still am to this day but i have a an obsessive kind of oCD work ethic on things that i care about and you know but i can i can

waste days away also so but i think a lot of people can relate to you that like sometimes the school format is not conducive to their learning and like their passion but once you find something that like makes you hungry you just like want more and more um but with that like oCD obsession to conquer something and do well. What are kind of the dark sides of that? Because I feel like so many, like I was a tennis player. I was fucking obsessed with tennis to the point, though, that I would like scare the shit on myself before a match. So like how do you balance your obsessiveness with also like trying to stay sane? You know, you don't. And that's why so many that's what I was thinking. So many people out here get fucked up. I mean, listen, I, I mean,

again, I can't believe this is where this conversation is going. But you know, you deal with there's a lot of depression in this groups. We know, you know, listen, I have a lot of friends who are comics, writers, and we know about suicides and drugs and alcohol. So, you know, I've been fortunate in that I'm not a big drug alcohol guy, but I've dealt with my depression, my anxiety. I mean, you know, before people knew what anxiety attacks were, I was having anxiety attacks in Hollywood that

were fucking mind-boggling. And I remember, we're talking in 1990 when the only time I had ever heard of an anxiety attack was Woody Allen. But honestly, I just thought it was like not a real thing. And I was jogging with a friend of mine. I used to live at the broadcast center apartments in 1990. I went for a job with my friend Brian Scherer was my room college.

And all of a sudden, I thought I was having a heart attack. And the next day I know I'm in the ER, where they're telling me there's nothing wrong with me. And for the next three months, I legitimately thought I was going mentally insane, because I would start hyperventilating at random shit that and I never was like I mean we all had our insecurities as a kid but I was never that kind of hyper anxious person all of a sudden leaving the house was becoming this problem and I actually did a short film about this back in the day with David Schwimmer was in it

before friends and a bunch of people but you know every day every day something else was going on that was making my anxiety crazy but nobody was telling me I was having anxiety attacks this one day I'm driving in LA and I'm now like every time I leave the house I'm scared like I'm gonna think I'm having a heart attack so I'm always nervous I'm driving and I'm doing like eight miles an hour and all of a sudden this rope rips through my tires

smashes into my windshield and shatters it okay so all of a sudden these DWP guys come running at me and they're like what the fuck are you doing what the fuck are you doing and I my New York energy comes out I'm like what the fuck am I doing what the fuck are you doing blah blah all of a sudden I start hyperventilating. I'm like, and they're like, are you okay?

I swear to God, I'm 24 years old. I go running to a paid phone. I call my mother. I'm like, I'm dying. I don't know what the fuck is wrong with me, but I can't breathe. And it was not till,

which is really strange to think about it. My friend Rob Weiss, who worked on entourage with me years later, he's like, bud, you have an anxiety attacks. Like, it's very normal. And I'm like, what the fuck do you know about? like normal anxiety attack. Anyway, I then went to a therapist.

And rather than analyzing my childhood and this, it was about retraining my breathing. Because what happens when you get anxious sometimes, you start to monitor your breathing and you're like, am I breathing enough? Like, how am I doing this? And you start to hyperventilate, which causes the feelings of a heart attack.

Anyway. No, that is very helpful because the physical and mental start to like connect. And you're like, am I having a physical breakdown or a mental breakdown? Oh, yeah. And that, it really is scary. And like, I mean, I would be on a basketball court playing basketball. And all I'd be thinking about is like, don't forget to breathe. And you can't like, you don't have to remind your body to breathe. It's going to do it. But when you start to overthink about it, you can really fuck yourself up. Well, it's funny. Even like golfers, they'll say like walking in between shots, they like have just keep their breath in a pattern. So they don't like forget how to fucking breathe. And the next thing, you know, get the yips and, you know, Tiger Woods. Sorry, I'm inspired. by the documentary right now. Yeah, I watched the first part last night. I got to watch the second part. Any initial thoughts?

I think it's amazing. I mean, you know, I'm very, I'm very interested in that stuff. And I'm also very interested in how growing up affects people and great people. And, you know, look, Tigers has done a lot of fucked up things. But watching that, you feel bad for him and you feel all the pressure that was on them from an early age. And obviously, that can be, that can be wounding, you know. Yes.

I'm really getting psychological with my wounding I love it I think you were kind of inspired you're kind of excited to go to hell today you're like what do you want to know I'm not shy with this stuff but I had no idea and until I listen to some of your things I'm like oh god I better be prepared to you know you're kind of like such a perfect guess because you're someone that people just kind of read about and think like well that guy must fucking have it made like the fucking creator and writer like oh my god but then you want to understand that everyone has to demons and everyone copes about it but sometimes your demons are what makes you successful like i ultimately think your anxiety probably drove you a lot how was your anxiety different from when you were just trying to be like mom and dad i swear i can do this versus season four they need a great storyline and you're afraid that people are going to come at you if it's not good like what kind of pressure how do you compare that kind of pressure i don't i don't want to say that pressure changed. But where people thought success would make it easier, it never did. I was extremely self-critical. And whether people liked the show or not, it was always in my head, I got to be good.

And, you know, I always used to be like, oh, I'm never going to do better than that episode. I'm never going to do better than that episode. So I was very obsessive. And again, you know, when criticism of the show came, to me, it was no different than when they said I was great. I didn't buy that. And as, you know, most comedians know, I'm the guy who like, if I look out in the audience and there's 300 people laughing, there's one jerk off knot, he's the one that I'm obsessed about. And that's kind of how I was. I mean, we could have 100 great reviews and I'd be like, this guy said this. And, you know, when I realize it's weird, I'm working on this new show right now, which has a character who has to find his greatness also and his friends are trying to help

them find what will inspire him. And I know what it's been with me, which is not healthy. But anger has always been the thing that got me over the hump. When I was feeling insecure or feeling upset, if you pissed me off, that's what motivated me to go out and do my best work. Wait, so you're the John McEnroe of Hollywood. Yeah, I mean, well, I wish I was that good, but similar, you know, similar personalities, maybe. Well, I wanted to know, like, how much did it affect you the negative talk because like I'm in the day and age of social media where like becoming any kind of famous becomes just navigating the world of trolls and people just telling you terrible shit. How did reviews affect you during that intense time? You know, again like prior to

entourage, I did a movie called Kissing a Fool with David Schwimmer and Jason Lee. That got really bad reviews. It was an independent movie that got picked up by Universal and I was getting all these offers from all the studios before it came out. So, you know, you built yourself up. Like, I'm actually good. I'm like this. And then all of a sudden, Roger Ebert's saying, I need to go to screenwriting class. And all of a sudden, I'm getting killed. And, you know, there's no way it cannot affect you. And it especially can affect you when, you know, you're not financially set and you have children and you're like, these people are trying to, you know, affect my life. I, so I've, you know, sadly, I've always gone back at them.

When people criticize me, especially now with social media, like I get in so many fights on Instagram, go fuck yourself, you go live in your basement, you fucking loser, you know? But it's all idiotic and stupid because the truth is, you know, when the New York Times said we were the best show on TV, we probably weren't the best show. And when someone said we were the worst, we definitely weren't the worst. So you got to find that balance.

Doug, you're nailing it. because I once had someone tell me like the people who are idolizing you are also like as kind of crazy as the people who are telling you that you're the fucking worst and you can't believe any of the hype and you can't believe the bullshit.

How are you though? Because I love writing comedy but sometimes I'll get really bad with feedback. Like I'll write a bit and someone will be like and I'll be like, how dare you? So you must have had to deal with so many notes in the process like you were not,

how do you deal with feedback when you really fucking love an idea? Yeah, you know what? I've gotten so much better because all of that is insecurity and all of that is fear. But I used to like, when I used to get a note, I'm going, what the fuck do you know? Now I really understand if someone's giving a note, I take it in and I go, is that what's bothering them? Is it something else? Or does the idea actually suck?

And it's like I said, that time on the stand-up stage, I had a joke. I was sure was funny. When I said in front of 300 people and nobody laughed, I'd be a moron to go, well, they just don't get. it. So I'm much better with listening to notes. That being said, criticisms. Like, you know, we talked about this. We're doing this podcast right now with me and a couple of the guys from Entourage. And like, I know it was personal, by the way. Like, I read something on the Apple reviews that was like, this Doug Ellen is a fucking loudmouth loser. Nobody cares about your divorces. Let the fucking guys talk. I felt like it was a personal attack. And I really do believe

I know. I mean, it is a personal attack. I mean, I meant like, I, know this person like for real but that being said i did spend a lot of time on it i'm like i'm going to track this motherfucker down i'm going to hunt you so um it does bother you but it also motivates me and and and i will take it even that jerk of i'll go am i talking too much on this show should i be listening more so i i do listen so how do you turn anger into like positive motivation because anger could be a very ugly emotion i am i am not going to sit here on this podcast and tell you that that's a wise way to do things. But anger has always helped me. You're talking about tennis, which I played tennis growing up. Now I play serious competitive pickleball,

which one day will get you out there. But I play with Sam Quarry and some professional tennis players, you know. Awesome. And I Venice Beach, they have quite the situation too of like the paddle tennis going on. It's sick. Yeah, it's awesome though. But, but I, I, I, I play better angry. Like people go like, relax, relax. I play better angry. Now, I may die because of it, so I am not recommending anybody use that, you know. And I've seen some great athletes that I'm friends with who really know how to keep their emotions in check.

And that's, you know, as you know from competitive tennis, you got to have a short memory. I don't. Yes. I don't. They always said Michael Jordan could like forget a miss shot in like 0.2 seconds. And I'm like, I can't just not care. But that's also, we're creative. So I think that's why ultimately with tennis,

like I'd have too much shit going on my brain. But the thing with sports is when you win, you win. They have to shut the fuck up. You're like, I'm better than you. But with art, everyone has their two things of, like, how they feel. And it's frustrating, but it's what I love. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's both things. But I do use it as strong motivation.

I've tried over the last 20 years to relax. I mean, there's no one who knows me. Who doesn't know I've been the same since kindergarten? Like short fuse, lack of patience, but I try. I do the best I can. Do you think that fame has changed you at all? Not even a little bit. Nothing.

I mean, by the way, nothing's changed. This pandemic hasn't even changed me. I was a homebody then. I'm a home body now. You know, and what I do feel proud of, there's people that I, and I do have my best friends. We have a group chat of elementary school friends that's like 16 deep. that still goes on on a daily basis.

But sometimes I run into other people who are like, Doug Allen, I'm like, Jesus, you haven't changed since like third grade. And I do believe that. Nothing has changed. I've never, you know, I grew up in a fear-based household. So even when I made some money, I live with like I'm going broke every day. I got to figure out what's next. Like, don't overeat today.

All the same shit. So. Well, I love that you mentioned that you still have that friend group because I feel like entourage was amazing. because you could tell you really had a passion for these male friendships. Have you learned anything about male friendships over the years, writing about them, any advice you'd give to people? Because I feel like men don't always talk about their relationships that much.

You know, a lot of people used to say is an entourage realistic? And the most, the Hollywood stuff was ultra-realistic. The only thing that wasn't realistic was that guys in their 30s were still able to be this close because people usually do go in different directions. But what I found, as I got into my 40s, all of those young relationships started to come back. People started getting divorced. People started, kids started getting older, so they weren't that focused as much on that. And, you know, those are the best relationships you can have, you know, those ones that knew you when,

and I'm not talking if you're famous, but that knew you when you were whatever you were becoming and kind of can stick with it. So I've got an amazing group of friends. There's some girls on that list as well, though. But, you know, Long Island was a place where, you know, we grew up in a very middle-class neighborhood and we have some incredible enduring relationships that, you know, are life-changing for me. That's awesome.

And also with relationships, going out to L.A. must have been scary. I don't know how many people you knew. But you already told me people who have helped you along the way. But do you have any advice for, like, networking and kind of being yourself? but not like making an idiot out of yourself. But like, because you have to make people like you to, like, work in this industry. You know what? I'm the wrong guy to talk to. My father used to tell me all the time that I have to net.

I've never been a networker. Yeah. Yeah, because some people are very focused on that. Like, how do I network and social climate and all that stuff? I used to go out with like my early friends in L.A. would be like, we have to go to this party because we're going to meet this one or that one. That was never me. I would go home and I would work.

And as far as knowing. I didn't know a single person in L.A. except for my wife to be and now, unfortunately, my ex-wife, but I met her on the phone about a month before I came to L.A. Oh my God. She picked me up the airport. She went back to college a month later. I lived with her parents for two months. And 10 years later, I bought a house across the street from her parents. And, you know, that was the only person I knew. That was the only kind of moorings I had. But I was never in L.A. as like to be at the clubs, to be at this. I was here really. I mean, I was to figure out how I was not going to starve. That was my entire kind of motivation when I got. But that's so important. I feel like some people are like, if I just met the right person or if like the right person saw this, it's like, it's actually kind of boring. It's like just work your ass. Yeah, I just don't believe it. I believe, especially now and I'm not speaking of myself necessarily, but talent rises to the top. And work ethic really does have a great amount of to do with your success. Now today, I mean, I made a short film in 1991 that I had to walk around with a VHS cassette and go, will you please? watch this. Will you please watch this? Now it's like you posted on your Instagram. I get DMs from kids that, you know, I watched them from a year ago. All of a sudden, they got 30 million followers. And now I'm going, listen to, could you post my podcast on your Instagram page? You know, I know you said you're a big fan of mine, but now I need some help, you know? So it's pretty wild to

watch the whole thing happen. That's amazing. Lastly, about your creative process, what do you do when you are just like there's nothing happening you're in a rut and you have a lot of pressure from people to produce something great what's your go to like find inspiration you know i don't believe in any of that shit you know again i'm not i'm not you're like i take a crystal and i rub it against another crystal i don't believe in writers block i don't believe in in inspiration i believe in sitting your ass down in a chair and typing and things happen and sometimes it sucks and sometimes it's great but you know and I am as I said I'm a incredible procrastinator I've wasted years of my life away but usually when I've sat down and typed something has come out and I think that is like

anything else like you know tennis it's like I was growing up playing basketball and again I'm not trying to give some a delusional story that I was a great basketball player but for a slow Jewish guy I was okay but I would I would sit in the driveway for hours and shoot shots and I got better. And it's the same thing with writing or stand-up. I mean, it's one of my only regrets is that I didn't stick with stand-up to get to whatever my potential would have been, you know? That's one of my regrets, you know? Well, you could still go right back in the game after a lot of people say that my girlfriend says that to me all the time. And I'm like, yeah, but I still hate people and I hate nightclubs and I hate being up late at night. So it's not

going to work you know i i feel like you said that there's been times that you felt like you're not doing anything you're very lazy is there a side to you that like is that the voice of your parents being like you lazy piece of shit or you actually for sure i mean my mother used to call me up my mother rest in peace it was amazing but she used to call me up in l.a like and i really had i didn't know anybody i didn't know where to go so she would call me up at 1130 in the morning I'd be in bed, she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, nothing. I'm thinking. And she's like, about what? Get up. Do something. I'm like, I was like, I honestly don't know what to do. I don't know where to go. Like, and like, I don't know anyone. And it's like, you know,

where are you supposed to go when you get to Hollywood and you don't know anybody, you know? But she's actually so right, because sometimes you're not being lazy. You're just stuck in like your thoughts and like a circle of like reasons why you shouldn't get out of bed. And she's like, you really just have to move. But it's hard when you're like, I don't know about these fucking palm trees and these people with these weird sunglasses walking around. Yeah. But it does. It feels really intimidating.

And again, I do think the world is different now. You can be in the middle of nowhere and become an Instagram star or kind of relate to different people. But back then, it was like, you walk around Hollywood. You know, I remember like going to Dan Tannas 30 years ago. And like, I could barely afford it. But I walked in and Craig, who you probably know who now owns Craig, who is now my friend. And back then he was running Dantanas and you walk in and be like, hi, can I get a table?

It would be like two and a half hours. And then Jerry Seinfeld would walk in and sit right down. And I'd be like, how am I ever going to crack into this universe? And I remember thinking like, if I can get a table with Dan Tannas one day, I've made it. So I also feel like, I don't know, there's people are going to pop off with this Instagram life we live right now in social media, but it's still the ones that will, sustainable and like have a long-term career are the ones that are working hard like anyone could have a viral video get 100,000 followers but I really believe in what you're saying that

it's actually quite boring it's not the people who are partying every night that are getting shit done Doug you're so fucking funny and I love I love your perspective on things we're going to end with a final game and it's called the seven deadly sins we're about to get a little bit darker right now seven deadly sins What are you greedy about? I like people to listen. I like people to hang on my words, and that seems to never happen. That, again, is probably something from childhood where I lived in a house with a lot of talkers,

two brothers, parents, and everybody talked, and I don't think anyone listened. I think that's why I'm liking it. I'm doing this podcast now, and I think I like it, even if that asshole thinks I talk too much, because I don't feel like anyone's going to interrupt me, you know, so it's nice. But that, I like people to listen. And I think I do listen as well, but whatever. No, I feel like listening is an old school thing that people don't do anymore. I joke because I'm Italian.

It's like, if I pause after you've talked to me, it means I'm spacing out. Like, I need to talk on top to show that I care about the conversation. But yeah, podcasting, it's like you really fucking feel heard and it's quite therapeutic. But it also explains why you want to be a writer, I feel like, because like every single word you wrote. could affect someone so it's really like makes complete sense who are you envious of who am I envious of you know I haven't spent a lot of time being envious in my life but the weird thing now for me is like I'm almost 50 fucking three which is I don't know how that happened like I used to when I was doing stand up by the way this beard is is not a look it's kind of giving up but but if I shave this

I would still look a lot younger but when I was doing stand up I looked like I was 14 people would be like Are you allowed in the club? And now all of a sudden, I used to have this fucking Barry Gibb winged hair and shit. And now it's going a little bit, unfortunately. I'm envious of every fucking dude with a great head of hair. It's so nuts. I'm like, I'm watching the game last night and Tom Brady takes the helmet off. I'm like, this motherfucker.

Like, how does he have this head of hair? I don't even care if he wins the Super Bowl, has Giselle. I just go, why does he have that hair? I just don't understand it. You'd think the helmet would at least like tug on it a little. Give him something. Anything. But the truth is, you know, I don't know if anyone cares about that,

but that's something guys care about. I think even more than the women, we just like, you want that great head of hair. You get out of the pool, the shower, and you're just like, but that's over. That's over for my life, unfortunately. Now you got to stick to your personality more. Exactly. How's that going to help me, you know? What are you gluttonous about?

So what do you overindulgent? So I am, which I've been unbelievable for the last six weeks, I started, I'm, I eat like a 350 pound man and I'm, I'm not Italian, which by the way, let me just tell you, some of my best friends are Italian. And I was devastated when I got my 23 and me. I was 100% sure I'd have some Italian in me. I have none, and I'm fucking miserable by it. I can eat amounts of food that you've never seen anything like for. for someone my size. And I've been famous for that with my friend

since I was a kid. But for the last six weeks, I went on this no sugar added diet. And I'm sitting here like with my mush oatmeal oats. Did you lose a bet? My bowl of freaking blueberries. It's actually, I don't know. You're counting the blueberries? Yeah, I don't know if it's gonna last

because normally I wake up. I'm not kidding. I'll wake up and eat a pizza for breakfast. I'll have a pint of ice cream every single night, but I've been really good. So, but that's what I'm gluttonous about food is. What made you go on this intense diet? I don't want to die. I'm getting to this age where, like, you could die.

And I was starting to think, like, maybe this is like a drug act. Like, I would eat to the point where I'm in bed going, why are you doing this to yourself? And, you know, we all know food can be a, you know, a depression anecdote. And sometimes, like, my girlfriend would be like, you're not even tasting it. Like, I would eat bags of Gia deli chocolate chips like they were vitamins. I'm like, you know, and I'm like, am I even tasting this? And then I read some article about this no sugar added that sugar is like the worst thing in the world. I looked at this bag of chips.

I ate a whole bag of chips. It was like 110 grams of added sugar, which is like, I'm like, oh my God, I'm basically just pouring into my mouth. So anyway, I'm trying to get healthy. I want to come out of the pandemic better than I was. And we'll see if it lasts, you know. It's funny because people would be like this thing tastes, it tastes like it has crack in it. When a lot of things, the sugar really is addictive, like even white bread. And that's why you're like twitching for it.

It's 100% addictive. No doubt. 100%. Quick question. Whenever I interview someone who's like behind the camera, I get like a little nervous. Like even people who just write meme pages or write essays. But like you have such a big presence and you've dabbled on camera. What has been your decision on whether you want to be on camera or off camera in your career?

you know, well, another tragedy of my life, but I wrote this short film when I was young to star in and direct and write because I wanted to be Jerry Seinfeld. I wanted to be Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, Woody Allen, whatever. Not with the child molesting or anything else you. But, you know, I wanted to be like those guys and be that good.

So I wrote this short film and David Schwimmer who was going to be in it. And then all of a sudden, it's a short film. I get it somehow agents find out about it And I get a call that John Cryer wants to play my part, okay? So I called David, who was one of my best friends. I was like, what do I do? John Cryer wants to play this part.

He's like, well, you let him play it. I'm like, but I was trying to do this to make myself whatever. He's like, don't be a fucking idiot. Anyway, John Cryer did it. I'm just not that good. I mean, that's the reality of it. I put myself an entourage a couple of times hoping, like, someone would call and be like, we want you to play. But I'm just not, I'm not as good as these guys, you know? And it's something

that will always bother me because if I could have done anything, that's what it would have done. I would have written, directed, and started things. But I've ultimately realized that there are better actors than me. I mean, I'm enjoying doing this podcast because I get to speak, but performing I'm not sure is my gig. Victory the podcast. You guys have to download. You have to listen. The guys are hysterical on it. And you guys really kind of pull back the layers of on And you get some inside scoops that are awesome. Yeah. And we also talk about, you know, careers and life and all the stuff.

So it's, it's more than just entourage. So, and it's also for any women out there, I know actually you guys are kind of vulgar on your show. But the vulgarities of entourage, they're not really there. We're not, you know, it's enjoyable. And its friendship is what it's really about. Oh, we want vulgar. We can be a little. No, you got, for sure, you guys have entertaining conversations.

But I could also see. guys do something you love documentaries you've obviously done a lot of stuff with documentaries i could see you doing something i mean you could be like a curb your enthusiasm to seinfeld people have said that to me like oh you could be a young larry david but and larry who's who's been on entourage and is somewhat of a friend of mine he's one of my heroes and he really is he's such a genius i i don't i honestly i don't put myself in that kind of ranks and the in front of camera stuff is is behind me i don't spend a lot of time thinking about especially without the great head of hair I'm down it's like what's the point anymore you know that's what I

but I do like where you just you chase where naturally felt good and naturally you were getting the positive feedback and like you could do so many different things but it sounded like you really went that path that was meant for you maybe when was the last time you experienced extreme anger which I know you love it's your passion like when I tried to when I tried for the first time to hook up a mic for this interview and like I couldn't feel how to work and I wanted to fucking throw it out the window but um I you know anger is it's it's always a thing that I work on uh you know I'm doing some meditating and things like that but I have I have a short fuse and I've tried my best to realize how stupid that is especially like 52 years old I find

myself in a road rage situation where I'm like listen mother fucker you and I'm like what are you doing like what is wrong with you so um i i work on it and it is it's like you know i try to deal with what it is deep inside but it is obviously fear and insecurities and stuff but uh i've gotten better i think i think a little bit i love your self-awareness it's quite refreshing when was the last time you let your pride get in the way of something this is a hard one it's kind of like your ego yeah but i i mean i don't want to be arrogant about that i don't think i let pride get in the way a lot. I'm not a shameless person, but I'm, you know, I'm very big on what's doing the best for myself and other. I really am. I try to like rise everybody up together. And I don't remember

pride affecting me a lot in my life, to be honest with you. No, I believe you, because to have a successful show eight seasons, you have to have like a good team dynamic and you have to have a good culture around it because I feel like so many shows end because like someone's a dick. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had a you know we had such an amazing experience because so much of us and still today are our best friends so it was kind of like a real family group and again that's not to say that people who i worked with wouldn't say dugs an angry motherfucker but i don't think pride is one of those things i have bigger seven deadly sins than pride i think you're like that's weak um also so okay so this one is about lust so i want to ask you once you kind of got a little successful in

L.A. How did it change like your dating situation? And were you worried anyone who's going to use you for your great writing skills? I mean, it really didn't. I've been always kind of a, I mean, I can't say I'm a one woman person because tragically I got divorced twice, but I've been in, I think I've had five relationships in the last 30 years. So I was never a big, like, dating person. I, as I said, I met my, my first wife on the phone. I came out here. We were together for, for 18 years. And when we unfortunately got divorced, I met the next woman that I dated.

I met two months later. We were together for almost seven years. And now I've been with my girlfriend now for a couple of years. So I, you know, nothing really changed. That was never, everybody always asked me that. What was, oh, all of a sudden you were better looking, you were this, you were that.

Like I, I'm a very kind of like, kind of emotional connector much more than, you know, oh, I gotta be there, I gotta be that. also like paranoid. I don't like diseases. I don't like fucking dirty people. I love how the writer of entourage is like, that's fun. However, I would like to emotionally connect and not have sleazy people around me. Well, that's one of the reasons. You say what criticisms what bothered me when people started saying about how misogynistic entourage was, that's the last thing, number one, that I am. And the show was tame. Guys used to be like, why is there not more sex and more nudity on it?

But then all of a sudden it became this thing where fucking people like Mindy Kaling were saying we're animals. And we weren't. It was about friendship and loyalty. And that's, again, how I've tried to live my life. And again, obviously, I got divorced twice, which is horrible. And I wish that that didn't happen. But I tried, you know. Well, divorce is tough because you have to, like, admit that the relationship did not, like, succeed in how you want to. But then you also have to commit to being like, that's okay. And I'm going to move on from that. It's like if you're going to fail, fail and move forward. Yeah, but also to know, and I do. I mean, my first wife was the mother of my two children.

She's amazing. I mean, she did nothing wrong. I was a fucking pain in the ass. She put up with a lot of stuff with me. I know that. So it's like, you know, my girlfriend right now puts up a lot of stuff with me right now. She's probably sitting outside the door listening to this. So, but, you know, you have to be, you have to be self-aware about it.

And, you know, the biggest thing for me when I was doing the show, it was a grind. it was 20 hours a day and it's tough to balance life and relationships and that so wow yeah there's some sacrifice but i do believe that there's certain people who are meant for you at certain times in your life and it sounds especially like your first wife yeah that happened final question you're doing great what advice would you give to the listeners when you're in that dark place on how to cope with your hell god i mean and i say this really i've been in dark places i've had you know movies come out and then legitimately believe that my career was over and again it's not about oh the career career means the ability to pay for my children to eat to live in their house and be comfortable and

you know after success for years before entourage happened you know I made that independent movie which I was this darling of the town for about five minutes and then the movie came out and I honestly could not get a job for over a year. There's nothing. Like, I mean, you know, I could have been a bus boy, I guess, but I couldn't get a job in the business. And I thought about going back to law school. I thought about what I'm going to do with my life. And I've experienced that, which is a lot of the stuff I put into entourage, but I've experienced that many times. And I'm not going to say that I have the answers to how to deal with it well, because it's not easy. And the more pressures you have surrounding you make it that much harder but i've always tried my best to just

get back on and start working at what i i'm you know i'm good at and those are to me the keys to take out the outside noise i have friends who have risen and fallen great heights in this town and there's very few people that i know mark walberg is really one of the only ones that i've watched for 30 years just kind of always be on top almost everybody else i know and people with emmys and oscar nominations i've seen the low points for them so to me it's really to stay within yourself as much as you can and again i really don't like that i'm giving advice because i'm as fucked up as anybody and i've dealt with tons of you know massive depression and like oh my god maybe i got lucky how did i ever do that how am i going to do it again so it's just important to get back to

the base of what things are. And for me, as tragic as it is, because it doesn't, it's not fun, but the blank page is for me where I'm going to always get back to where it was. And even, you know, when the pandemic started, you know, I was like, oh my God, like now, like, what the hell now? And I sat down, which I haven't done it a long time, and I wrote scripts that nobody was paying me for, nobody was asking me to do. And those are the things that have kind of, now moved forward to possibly giving me the next stage of my life so hell yeah Doug this has been such an amazing interview I feel like you are so open so honest and now I'm like I need to rewatch some entourage I'm pumped up now that I feel like I understand the depth behind it where can my

listeners listen to you follow you watch you give me the goods um well obviously you can watch but I'd rather at this point listen to victory for the podcast I think you'll get a real good insight. We have a lot of the women who are on the show, too, to talk about it from their perspective. You can follow me on Instagram, which I'm not saying is an interesting follow, but you can look at Mr. Doug Allen. You have a cute dog. I have an awesome dog. Barron. Say hello, Baron. Yeah, I've got a great dog and two cats rolling around somewhere out here, too. Oh, my God, I love that. Cats and dogs being friends makes me happy. So, yeah, my dog is my life. I've had shepherds for the last 20 years. They're the best.

um but that that's kind of it well thank you so much Doug everyone thanks for listening burning hell and we'll talk to you later bye