Berner Phone - Grace Atwood: Bad On Paper & Good At Being Alone

Episode Date: December 25, 2019

Grace is an expert in personal style, organization, books, DIY projects, wellness, and travel. She talks to Hannah about making cat ladies cool again, finding a balance with eating and working out, how she is a hot mess at heart, her best book recommendations, her worst habits, and how the blogging business has evolved. Get 20% off CBDforlife.us with the code HANNAH20 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And I can't deal with people who are using their authenticity, and I put that in hand quotes, you guys didn't see it, to get engagement. Yeah, like writing a long caption that's actually about nothing disguised as opening up. Like, I'm like, I'm so bored. I'm just being like, I've been going through a really hard time, though. I'm not going to tell you guys about, but I'm better now. And I just love all your support. And I'm so happy that you guys are here for me, like, like, like, comment, subscribe, swipe up.

And I'm like, what the fuck was that? Welcome to Burning Hell Welcome to Hell Welcome to Hell guys I am with Grace Atwood The founder of the blog,

The Stripe, and host of the popular podcast Bad on Paper. Hi, I'm so happy to be here. You're like too sweet to be in hell. No, no. I think I think everyone thinks I'm sweet and then if you get to know me, I'm not quite so sweet.

I actually just posted a photo where it's like my personality when you first get to know me and it's like Mickey Mouse really happy and then it turned into Marilyn Manson when you get to know me because then you just see my dark shit and I'm just like, I don't like this place. Let's go home. Yeah. But I think it's important to be friendly at first, right? Of course. Always be nice. And then I feel like as people get to know me like when they see the bad sides of my personality,

it means I really love them and I'm letting them in. Yeah. That is intimacy at its finest. Also, I feel like if I'm telling you things I hate and we bond over things we hate, that's true bonding. That's a great way to bond. Everyone likes pizza, but do you hate Stephanie in the office like I do? Mm-hmm, exactly. That's bonding.

Yes. So I want to give you guys a little background on Grace. You're actually really good on paper, according to all the research I did on you. Oh, I'm nervous now. You're named one of the Daily Front Rose, 50 names to know right now. It was. You were the director of social media for Bob Barbar, which is like, did I pronounce that, right? Yeah. I did. It's a really, really cool jewelry place. Before that, you worked in marketing for Procter & Gamble, which is pretty fucking legit. You're very marriage material. You're married, right?

No, I am single as hell. Well, you're marriage material. We'll get married after this. Great. We're getting married. We just got engaged. We're skipping all the bullshit. I actually need like a wife right now because my mess is my life. My life is a mess. We both love cats, so I think we're a great fit. Well, if you guys haven't noticed, I only invite people who like cats on this podcast. I'm trying to make cat girls cool again. That's like my main mission in life is to make being a cat lady cool. But someone recently left a review. Thanks for all your ratings and reviews, by the way, people, where they said, despite the fact that she loves cats, I love this podcast.

Oh my God, what the hell? Why don't people like cats? They're amazing. And also, cats don't scratch your eyes out. That's a myth. So you have a blog called The Stripe. I do. It used to be called something else, though, right?

It was called Stripes and Sequins, because I didn't know any better. I was, I started my blog 10 years ago, and, like, the internet was new, so. My life, what is it called when you use the same letter for two words? Alliteration. Alliteration gets me horny. I love alliteration. Like, alliteration is how I choose all my titles for this podcast. It's how I choose captions.

It just runs my life. I love that. Thank you. I remember, like, mm. When I was 20, like four or five years ago, I was working at T-shirt company. Okay. And part of my job in social media was like to send shirts to bloggers. Did you send me a shirt?

I worked at the home tea. Oh my God, you did send me a shirt. I did. I had a Massachusetts shirt. Yes. So my job, it was, it was this company. We were in Shark Tank. There was four of us.

I was into, I did a lot, but I was obsessed with the social media. And I would find all like the cool girls. And I'd find out where they live. And I'd be like, hey, do you want to Massachusetts? And it donated to like multiple sclerosis research and it was a cool company. Is it still around? I think it is. But I remember thinking like these girls are smart.

Like you, it was amazing all these people having different like stories that they were writing about. And I was like if one day I could be entrepreneurial. But I didn't have the knowledge of like things to tell people about my life besides maybe like how to play tennis, which was kind of niche. Well, you've come pretty far from that now. I mean, I feel like right now people are interested in what I do, not as like advice, but more like, oh, what does Hannah do? Well, I always will watch your stories and know it's going to be funny or motivate me to work out. Thank you.

I've recently gone to trainer. Okay. But I'm having an issue because it's made me more hungry. And now I feel like I'm just putting on weight. That is my, like, biggest problem with exercise. Like, there are certain ones that make me so hungry. Like, I will not go to Soul Cycle because I can't stop eating after SoulCycle. I literally have eaten my body weight.

20 times over this week. And I did two work. There's a point when I don't work out. I'm not that hungry. And I start to wither away. But like I feel like snatched. Yeah. And then I work out and I feel really powerful for this 45 minutes.

And then I'm like, if I don't have chicken parmesan pronto, I will break something. I totally know how you feel. I just started doing orange theory and I'm like, I'm so hungry all the time. And like everyone's like, you're not going to bowl. up just because you lift one weight. But I'm a naturally muscular person. Okay. And I'm going to get into bodybuilding within a week, I think. So, but I'm happy you're on because you're an adult. I am. I'm 38. I don't know how that happened. You guys, you can't see her right now. She looks like she may have turned 21 last week. Thank you. I love you. No. But that's why I want you on because, okay, so you had this

blog and it's a daily source of inspiration for the modern woman. You've done such good research. it was I do intense subway research I copy and paste a lot because I don't trust my mind to memorize anything but you are knowledgeable about personal style DIY projects which again make me horny like to watch people put organization DIYs organization that's something I don't know about the best beauty products and books travel guides I love I'd love to travel for something besides work wellness that's big lots of stuff lots of stuff a lot of stuff on my website And I'm doing it for 10 years, so there's a lot. Dude, like you are so knowledgeable and you have your, and I'm bringing you on because

from looking at you and you just kind of seem like you have your shit together, more than me. I'm deeply flattered. I don't know about that. So that's why we're going to delve deeper in hell. But what made you think, like, that you could be someone that gives advice on the internet? I don't think I ever really intended to become that. I was deeply unhappy in my marketing job. And for me, like, writing and, like, just.

just like having this little thing on the internet was a really fun thing to do. And at the end of the day, I would, like, go home and, like, work on my blog. And I'd feel better about the fact that my boss had, like, screamed at me or, like, she would get into the office at, like, seven. So I was always late. Like, I'd get, I would go to work at 8.30, which for New York standards is quite early. I mean, most of these hipster companies, 10 o'clock is great. Yeah. When I worked for a startup, it was like 10 o'clock.

And yeah, you work later. And you're hungover, so you don't really work till one. Yeah. And that's kind of post-lunch food coma. you don't really work till four exactly then you leave at five you did an hour's work yeah it's about quality over quantity time yes but it's interesting because you're one I was always kind of the messy friend like I was the friend I'm not even just saying like my room just in general like I'd like have toothpaste on my shirt and this is talking about like in my 20s and I'm still in my 20s so

as of yesterday I'd like my mom will be like can you brush your hair I've recently got in my shit more together because I'm like you like you look at my shit more together because I'm like look pretty together. Thank you. Today I tried for you. And because I don't know if I can go home in time before a comedy show tonight. So I put lipstick on. But it's been fun, but it's not natural for me. Do you feel like you've been a natural person in terms of like style or DIY? Or did you get inspiration to change to learn more about that stuff? I think I've always really loved like fashion and beauty and especially skincare and reading and like learning about things. But I'm kind of a hot mess at heart. Like, I want to sleep in as late as possible.

I'm happiest when I get, like, 12 hours asleep. So you're a cat. Yeah. You're a cat. I'm a cat. Like, I would, if I could be anything, I would be my cat. Like, I would just want to eat all day, like, lay in the sunshine and, like, not talk to people. I feel like I was too young to have this thought, but I remember, like, at 11, seeing my cat and I was leaving to go to something that I had to do and just thinking at it.

At 11 years old, I already knew that this life wasn't for me. And I was like, I just want to be hurt. because she just sleeps all day and then gets pet and eats whenever she wants. Exactly. And if you get fat, you're cuter. Like, I just want to be a cat. I love little chubby things. I have a friend, Remy Casimir, who's a, um, we just, I know Remy.

She's amazing. We just send each other chubby animals all day. She's another cat lady. Yes. And that's the kind of friend I want. We don't need to say, how are you? Just send me a chubby cat and you know I'm doing well. Um, what is your like main strength in writing about, like that you really,

really love to write about? I think either books or skin care because I love to read like I'm such an introvert. I mean I go out a lot for work and just like having a New York social life. But the way I recharge is like laying on my couch all day Sunday with like a pile of books. That is adorable because I have one of those things where I love to buy books. I will go on Amazon. I will go to Barnes and Noble's. I will go to Amazon even the physical store. They just put in Times Square wherever to torture to myself but I love buying books. Yeah. I will not touch them. Okay, so they're just purely decorative. Well, it's because it's like, I want to be that person who reads it. Like, I want to be you. Like, I want to be that girl that's like, I'm going to read these on Sunday. But then Sunday I'm asleep.

But maybe you just need to read more like lowbrow books. Yeah. Oh, no, they're all lowbrow that I'm buying. Okay. Okay. I love buying autobiographies or biographies about like female comedians. Okay. Like I love the Tina Faye book. And, Mindy Kaling. Oh, I loved hers. Chelsea Handler. I did read Chelsea Handler and Mindy's, but that was a while ago. Yeah.

Do you have any advice for like getting time to do those self-care things that you want? Like even like wearing a face mask, I buy them. I don't use them. Oh, my gosh. Your skin's perfect. So you don't need to, but it's nice. I have foundation. I like doing it at night.

Like maybe when you get home from a comedy show and you're really tired. There's a book that might change reading for you. Okay. So Ashley Heseltine from Girls Got to Eat, just read it too. Yes. It's called The Idea of You by Robin Lee. And it's about this 40, she's like 40 years old and she's a mom. And she is divorced and she goes to a one direction concert.

And basically, it's not really one direction, but it's like, it's based. It's fiction. Okay. And the guy who's like a thinly veiled Harry Styles falls in love with her. And they go, they like embark on this hot and heavy love affair. It's like really well written. there's amazing sex scenes it's so fun oh i've never read like a sexy book oh read this book maybe that's how i get into it i think this is gonna this is gonna change things for you do you prefer watching porn or reading

erotic novels um i think watching porn okay yeah i think i'm more a visual person the book nerd yeah i've never read like a really you're like i'm not a huge fucking nerd well it's not like graphic like it's it's just like sexy yeah it's like whereas porn is like a totally different thing yeah see I don't the one problem with that book for me is that I don't know I'm like I don't want to date a famous dude I think they're all like narcissists and crazy but that's me just being too logical and enjoying the moment that's ruined like when I think that that's probably ruined for you but I think if you can put that past you it's fun do you have any there's a lot of people who care about mental health on this podcast do you have any favorite like self-help books um so I've

gotten really into meditation so I would say 10% happier by Dan Harris is a great place to start. Cool. It's all about, it's really interesting because it's like self-helpy, but it's also like autobiographical. So you get to learn all about his life and like, I like that. His panic attacks. And then he gives you like the things that he learned.

I love that because I feel like just basic self-help books that are just telling you how to be happier or something. If you just had to read that book to be happier, everyone would be happy. Exactly. And it's like, what is this person know? Are you even, it's like a yoga teacher telling you how to be calm. And I'm like, you couldn't, you are in yoga. go because you're so traumatized by daily life exactly um nothing it's yoga teachers i wanted to be one when i was

really depressed after a breakup i may have gone on amazon about like 10 south album never opened one i was gonna say was that were any of them good what do you do with all these books just i'm just picturing you and your cat and like 200 unread books it's so funny because i'm kind of seeing this guy right now who's really smart and he reads books and he was like oh look at you you love to read and i was like no i don't did you tell them or did you just let him think you read i'm like 28 now so like I'm past the early 20s where you pretend you're doing things you're not and I'm just like yeah I don't read any of them but I want to yeah and one I imagine like one day I'll wake up and be different um I'm always like oh but I could edit a podcast like oh I could do work I'm a little workaholic yeah what kind of bad habits do you have um because I kind of envisioned the beautiful blogger lifestyle the one I'm trying to kick is like pushing all my work off until late at night and then like sitting with like string cheese and goldfish and a big glass of wine and like writing until like 2 a.m. Yeah.

And then being like, oh, at like 10. Like, why did I sleep so late? Because I was up till 2 working. And it's like this vicious cycle where I then, I don't get anything done. It's true. I edit my podcast every Tuesday because it comes out on Wednesday. Ours does too. Yeah.

Look at us. Good choice. Good day choice. You guys have to have to subscribe and listen to her podcast. Good on paper. Bad on paper. Bad on paper. Sorry, she's so good on paper that I can't believe it.

Wait, why did you call it bad on paper? Well, it's actually a funny story. So we started it as a podcast about young adult books because my friend and I both loved to read like these trashy lowbrow books. And we quickly realized we could not read a book like every week for this podcast. Yeah, that's aggressive. We also realize that there's not enough good YA books out there. And we did something kind of dumb where we started this podcast and there was already

another podcast with the name. so they like threatened us through iTunes and iTunes was going to take all of our content down. Were they big? No, they had like 10 reviews and they were in college. So like maybe if the work they put into suing you, they should just put in their own podcast. I mean, I'm not going to say anything, but yeah. Just focus on yourselves, you guys. I mean, there's so many podcasts with the same name.

There's so many podcasts with the same names. But at the same time, like I look back and I'm like young adulting, like it's, again, we weren't taking it seriously in the beginning. now it's, I think the name is so much better. I love when, um, things turn out being successful when you didn't start them out initially trying to be successful. Yeah. Those are the best, they're the best project. That's how my blog was. Like I just wanted to have like a fun little creative outlet and now it's my full-time job. Now what do you think about the blogging landscape? Because it was like really, really popular. And then since then do you find like you've

fewer views or you've just expanded it's helped you expand to a lot more things? Tell me about the landscape right now for blogging. I think that it's definitely changed a lot. I think a lot of bloggers started posting more to Instagram than their blogs. And I've kept, I still post my blog every single day. And I kind of look at like if I had like a solar system of my business, like the blog is the sun and then all the other little things are like helping that out. So like I use, I have Instagram and I post like my outfits and all that. But I also like post funny stuff or like books that I'm reading.

And I always do swipe ups to that day's blog post. So it sounds like you've trained. them to keep reading your blog, which the blogs are the best. I'm kind of mad that it's gone because I would just get lost in someone's life. I would be like reading about their ex-boyfriend and then reading about, I just, I love immersing myself in someone else's mind. Yeah. So I guess I do kind of read, mostly captions. I want to start reading your blog, though, because I'm inspired now. Well, I hope you like it. What's the hardest part of being a blogger? I think, well, I think it's like, there's a lot of things that are hard. Like,

staying self-motivated is definitely hard at times. I think with dating, it's really interesting because men are like, the second they find out that you're like a blogger or an Instagram where they think that all you do is like take pictures of yourself and that's like your... Yeah, that's a stereotype. Or they think that like they're going to be put on social media. Oh my God. Oh my God.

No. I've literally had a guy after a date goes, you couldn't talk about me in your podcast and I was like, no. No. It's a boring date. Yeah. Do something fun and I would talk about it. Or just because you said that, I was going to it now I'm not.

Yeah. I'm like, no, you're not content. Do you, how often do you write about boys on your blog? When there's something to write about. Like, there hasn't been, like, I think I've been so busy, like, with work and the podcast and everything. And we did a little tour for our podcast in October and November. So I, like, just, like, started going on Hinge again.

And I'm like, I'm going to meet someone. Yeah. So, like, there's been, there's been a dry spell. How, do you have any recommendations for, like, organizing your, like, I have a studio for the first time? okay but this studio is like okay i bought a lot of stuff for um on black friday and i got all the boxes and i'm like too much anxiety to even open them oh my god i know because i know once i open them then i have to put them into piles of what i'm keeping what i'm not and then all this stuff

break down all the boxes can you give me some advice for just keeping your space nice so i think a one good policy which i hate and not the best at is like one in one out so if you buy something then like donate something else um because i tend to just like pile up so many things um getting like a good closet system in place is good i um i love like hanging like i have some hanging bags where like i can stick things and like just having making sure everything has a home yeah and if it doesn't have a home get rid of it oh yeah my mom said that the home thing yeah everything has a place where it belongs yes and you have to put it back and you have to put it back i again like i feel like a hypocrite because like right now there is a ginormous pile of clothes way to

for me to put them away when I get home. And I probably won't because after this, I'm going to a party. Yeah. Also, whenever I have to go to a party is when it doesn't matter how immaculate my space looks, I will pull out every single outfit, try it on, and then chuck it in a different place. And it looks like I was robbed. Yeah. And then you go out and you drink and you're not coming home and putting things away.

You're coming home and maybe you're eating in like a pile of stuff. And then you're like, Why is there a slice of pizza inside my corduroy skirt? That was just one time. But now I'm, because I'm kind of dating, like, I'm starting to see a guy and he's, I know he's on full, like, judge mode. Oh, yeah. You've got to be on your good behavior.

So I'm, like, hyper-aware how dirty my apartment is. Oh, my gosh. What is your biggest physical insecurity? Oh, gosh. Well, right now it's, like, these little lines that are forming around my eyes. Like, whenever I smile, there's just so many. see I love that because it shows like you're smiling I smile a lot people who smile and their eyes don't move I don't trust you I get insecure about my thighs like I feel like everyone has body hangouts but as I've gotten older I'm just like well this is my body like my thighs allowed me to like run like but like I would like to be like 10 pounds skinnier but at the same time like I also want to eat dessert and like I love a good cheese plate it's oh yes every guy I've dated who's because I'm like I hate to use the word curvy but like I'm like I'm like I'm curvier and guys who like me hate when I lose weight.

Oh, interesting. You lost your butt or like you lost your thighs. Guys don't want you to be too skinny. No. I mean, it depends on the guys. Some guys love skinny girls, but they're not the ones that I'm like having moments with. Yeah.

Moments. Just having romantic moments with. Yeah. But it's funny what you said about your body. I have this thing where I've kind of accepted like this is, but I'm trying to accept, um, learn to love like my laugh in the background of an Instagram story. Because that's where the pain...

Okay. I've gotten really self-conscious about my voice since starting the podcast. Oh, my God. People will be like, she has vocal fry. I'm like, I don't even understand what vocal fry is. You don't have vocal fry. No, you're going to edit this and you'll be like, oh, she actually does. If you try to go like this the whole time, I think it's more like...

Is that what vocal fry is this? When you talk like this, but it's on purpose. Hi, guys. My name is Hannah, and I'm so excited to have you on this pod. It's like Kim, the Kardashians, but, Like they smoked. Okay. Interesting.

Yeah. I've gotten some reviews where they talk about it. I'm like, I don't know how to fix this. This is just my voice. Like I'm not doing something. Then you start overthinking your vocal cords. You're like, what are they doing as you're talking? That's fun.

People have told me my voice is calming. I have no fucking clue how that's possible because I drop the f-bomb every two seconds. But I'm glad I'm calming you guys by cursing at you. What's your biggest kind of emotional insecurity about yourself? I think that I'm like kind of close. hearted like I think um I'm kind of a cold bitch like you're probably we're hanging out and like I know I'm warm and friendly but like I um I definitely like I take some cracking like especially like with with guys like I'm just like so in like so independent to a fault and sometimes I feel like I'm

never going to like meet someone and settle down what do you mean like you're cracking to guys what does that mean like I just it takes I don't know like I got really hurt in a previous relationship how old were you um i was 32 so i met him when i was 28 and like we lived together and i thought we were going to marry okay yep and then he broke up with me said he was no longer attracted to me oh which is like oh yes oh my heart up ah yes it was so bad that is so mean it was really bad that's so no it's not not attracted it's like for whatever reason he's not maybe he's not feeling it but that's not true like that's just not true yeah so that was really hard and i feel like Because of that, I have some walls up where it's, like, I just, like, someone has to try really hard.

Yeah, because you want to feel like you're 100% sure that they're in it for the right reason. So you think that you're a little emotionally unavailable. Yeah. But you've also created this incredible, like, entrepreneurial life for yourself where you don't need no man. And, well, that's the thing. It's like, I want somebody, but I also, like, I'm so independent. And, like, I, like, think a lot about time because, again, like, the workaholic thing, like, I'm like, I could be on a date with, somebody who probably sucks or I could be like working on like podcast or my blog or similar

something if I'm on a date and it's like not going well I'm like god damn it I could have like written a new sketch or like been do or getting rest that I need to do better work later yes exactly um and I think that's a good ad you to have I would be Goldberg had that funny quote where she was like I don't know about like being with someone because I just don't want someone else in my home that's actually actually hilarious is the last time I had a boyfriend I remember like coming out and like he had like all his shit with him and he was like so sprawled out and comfortable on my couch and like this is like when you like someone's maybe not the right person for you but I was like annoyed I was

like wow he like looks like he lives here recently I'm starting this guy and I like I worked out for the first time in a while getting jacked starving afterwards starving starving and I'm like I'm in a shower and then not even going to put anything just in my towel scroll instagram cuddle with my cat get on seamless and i'm going to order 45 dollars worth of mexican food like i'm going to get nachos i'm going to get like i was like tonight i'm like i'm going to watch mrs mazel yeah i'm going to watch flea bag i don't know it's going to be amazing yeah and then he texts me out of the blue and goes um hey do you want to get dinner which is so sweet and i wanted him to text me and i was so happy he did but then i was like fuck yes because i can't i can't eat mexican now i can't indulge the way i want to well that's the

thing i think in dating sometimes it's like it's hard because like i want someone to want to hang out with me but i also like i need my alone time yeah i'm the same way what's your sign a libra oh yeah we do get along oh yeah we do get along yeah we like leos we like each other yeah now we're happy now we can move on yes but there's nothing worse than when you're when someone's like oh what are you doing and you're like oh i'm just you know staying home reading, watching TV, and they're like, oh, great, I'll come over. And you're like, no, no, no, no, like, this is my time. Nope, no, no, no. Your time is really important. And I didn't, I thought that I was just being

like a bad friend in the beginning. And then I was like, oh, no, this is just who I am. Yes, exactly. And it's okay to want to be alone. It doesn't mean that you're a loser or a loner. It means that's how you recharge. Exactly. How do you think, like, your identities changed from when you first started the blog until now, like, or not even your identity, just who you are as a person, because 10 years is a long time. Yeah. I think that when blog started out, I always wanted to be positive all the time. And I, like, wanted everything to, like, curated and perfect. Yeah.

But now as I've- That sounds exhausting. It's exhausting. And it's also, like, people want to see real. Yeah. Like, people want to know, like, like, what's actually going on in your life. They want to see, like, not everything has to be taken with a DSLR. Do you remember something embarrassing where, like, it was a mess in a certain place?

But then you, like, made it look good here or, like, any crazy stuff you've done to look better than it is. Yeah, there was just like a lot of like moving that mess like over to a different corner of the apartment to like take like the beautiful stylized shot of your coffee table books or like your plant or something. Yeah. Or like make up like a flat leg. But that takes skill girl. I respect that. No, like I don't do a lot of that anymore. That's good. Yeah. It's great that our society is like, but what does annoy me and I don't have a lot of bloggers on the podcast or Instagram influencers because some of them like the inauthenticity, I hate. I. hate even very filtered yes or I can't deal with the face tuning and I can't deal with um people

who are using their authenticity and I put that in hand quotes you guys didn't see it to get engagement yes you know I'm gonna open up to you guys and it's like they're not even really opening up it's like just it's it's just there to like for content like it shouldn't be a trend yeah like writing a long caption it's actually about nothing disguised as opening up like I'm I'm like, I'm so bored. I'm just being like, I've been going through a really hard time. I'm not going to tell you guys about, but I'm better now. And I just love all your support.

And I'm so happy that you guys are here for me, like, like, like, comment, subscribe, swipe up. And I'm like, what the fuck was that? Yeah, like, what did I, what drivel did I just put myself through? I went the last three minutes of my life back. Yes. Um, also, how would you describe, like, how you found your personal style? Because I think fashion is something you nail. Oh, thank you.

That's so nice. But you're like, you're not just like, looking like other people I feel like like you're unique to yourself I think that there's just you kind find those things that you really gravitate towards like I love emerald green everything I love a rainbow like anything that's rainbow I'm like totally there for it but then I like a lot of classic things so I think it's for me it's been like finding that classic camel coat that fits really well and those like shoes that make your legs look amazing but you can also walk in like I think it's and that takes work though like I ordered a camel coat yesterday from ASOS and I put it on and I just looked

like I was swimming in it and it looked bad and then I'm now like oh well camel coats aren't for me I can't pull it off but it takes work it takes finding that right one and AISOs you got to order like three sizes and everything because like something could be big small like what are your favorite online places to shop because I'm going to tell you right now shopping gives me anxiety recently I've been I've been ordering from fashion nova my pants they fit me perfectly I'm like a size six in jeans but a lot of the time it's tight around my thighs and big around my waist and fashion nova I get a seven great and they fit my waist that's junior sizing they do it like five seven nine it's really weird but the seven fits me well and it's just like a it's like 40 bucks amazing and I kind of but I think

that's something that like I learned from research and stuff what are your favorite places to shop I love Nordstrom I know that like but Nordstrom like they have great customer service returns are so easy I shop on Amazon a lot. I'll, like, see something expensive I want, and then I'll, like, search for it on Amazon. Yeah, that means you have a good eye. Yeah. Well, I don't know.

Sometimes it's, I've bought a lot of questionable things, but I always use Prime so I can send it back if that's bad. That's great. That's great. Yeah, I got this shirt on. I'm wearing, like, a cute little white lace top. That's awesome. This was an Amazon fine.

I think it's, like, instead of just, like, seeing something you like is do a little more research to see what's around on the internet because there's so many options. There's so many options. Do you, would you say you're like, do you have any addiction? Like, are you hooked on shopping or, like, do you have any things that you just do too much? Well, I have a Dunkin addiction. I love Dunkin' ice coffee. Oh, because you're from Massachusetts.

I am. I'm a asshole. So I love Duncan. I'm very addicted to it. I drink too much coffee in general, but I love it. Their vanilla chai latte is the best in the city. I've never had that. I always just get iced coffee.

It's so good. It's a little sweet, but not too sweet. It's better than Starbucks. every single day. Also, they're two for one. Breakfast egg wrap. Clearly, I really like that wrap. I like that wrap. I like that rap a lot. I get Duncan so much. Duncan sponsor me. Um, I know. That's all like, I got. I got. I got one. I got done. It was just like they bought like one Instagram. It wasn't that excited. You know what? Two Instagrams this year. But you know what? Put that on the resume. Yeah. I'm like, all right. Now we need a long term partnership. I'd like to be in a TV commercial.

Like. So when you sponsor my life, Duncan. every photo you're just DMing them like hey how are you yeah I'm like I just wanted to share how what did you want to do when you first started the blog I just wanted it was your goal I just wanted to share cool things I liked like literally that was it what got you traction um it was the DIY projects in the beginning ooh what are some really popular ones you did so anything that was based off of a Danny Joe necklace and you have to remember like styles are so different now than they were 10 years ago yeah they were like those big state necklaces were like a big thing like I would never wear any of that now yeah but um a lot of it like

like I would see like a $600 necklace and show people how to make it for like 30 or 40. How'd you know how to do it? I always played with bees as a kid and I just like link chains together with jump rings and like kind of mess around with it. That's fun and figure out it was fun but it's a great story to be like you don't have to go to fucking like college and get a graduate degree to know how to figure out something creative that you like to do totally and so that started to get shared a lot yes So I got put on different lists or like bigger sites than mine would ask me to like create something for them and I would. And then their followers would come over and follow me. And that was also back when Instagram was like, if someone tagged you, you'd get like a thousand new followers.

Because like, remember that? It's so funny. It's so different now. I was actually private on Instagram until like two years ago. Oh my God. No way. Oh my God. You're killing it.

No, it's because I was on a TV show. Okay. That was my. And that was my, I started, I was working at Betches. and that's when I went, because I was doing video production for them. I, like, write all their little, and edit all their little sketches. Oh, that's so perfect. It was so fun.

And then, so I got some traction from that. And then my tweets got me traction. So I, like, went the way of, like, the memes and doing work with batches and then the TV show, where you were, like, that old school, like, posting continual quality content from the beginning. Yeah. But engagement's changed, huh? It's changed a lot.

Yeah. I think that everything is really about stories now. Like, my feed posts do okay, but like tons of people watch my stories. And so I kind of look at it as long as my story reviews are going up, I'm happy. That's great feedback. Because if anyone knows, it's you doing it day to day. I mean, does anyone know? You know what?

Great point. I don't know. But maybe you do. I post something that I think is going to do so well and nobody cares. Yeah, people used to talk. They were like, if you put green in the photo, it's going to do 20% better. Shut the fuck up. When did you quit your job?

These are my favorite moments to talk about. Yeah, five years ago. So what happened was I really did not want to be a full-time influencer. I was like, no, no, I can't do that. That won't be taken seriously. Like I was in my 30s, so I was like, this is like going to kill my career. And then I just got so burnt out. And I was like starting to like actually treat my blog and my Instagram as a business.

And I realized I could keep working for somebody else or take a chance on myself. And I mean, the great thing about what we do is that, again, like, goes back to the dating and, like, the, just like where you put your energy, every extra, every dollar we make goes to us, not somebody else. Ooh, you give me chills. I also felt like working in corporate America, it was always like someone else making decisions about your future. And it drove me crazy. Like, I'm kind of a control freak. Same. And I like doing my own stuff.

Same. And I felt like I'd rather the chance that, like, I'd rather the chance that, like, I'd rather. do bad, but then the sky's the limit versus, like, knowing exactly what was going to happen every day. Agree. Which was stressing me out. But there's a type of person for everything. Yeah.

Some people like don't shouldn't, some people love that this, this ability. And there's so many great things about a day job, like guaranteed health insurance, great benefit. Oh yeah. That's a good one. You know, getting paid every two weeks and knowing that that money is always going into your bank account. Yeah.

Do you think, I hate asking this because like I'm single too. Yeah. And there's so. many reasons but why do you think in this moment of your life you're single um major lack of effort on my part um and just being a little bit emotionally unavailable like what happens to me is i first of all i work in the most girly job ever like i have a podcast about books where we interview like inspirational women i have a blog about fashion and beauty so i am around women and gay men all day long you're so right you're not just bumping into like hot six foot four

finance bros yeah exactly so then i go i go on the dating app because i like have like a wind bout of energy i'm like i'm gonna do this and i'll like message all these people and then they'll start writing back and then i get busy or i go on a trip for work and i forget all about it and i don't write anyone back and by then they've all moved on but then they're all married with children yes i'm the same way within three days i like would would go on dating apps go really hard go on three bad dates delete them all and i have this thing where i don't delete it i just like go on it, swipe for fun, see who messages me, and then go to sleep. Yes, yes, I go to sleep. Like, what am I going to do? Start a relationship with someone tonight. Now I'm exhausted.

Yes. So it's really hard. I don't, I wish someone would fix the dating model. I think that there should be something. Maybe they need to bring back speed dating. Like, I would do that. It's funny. As you're talking about this, my friend, Lindsay Metzilar, we know, like me. I've never met her, but I love her podcast. You should reach out to her because she does these cool, like, intimate gatherings where she'll do it with a brand and she'll pick like a bunch of people that she thinks would go well together of her single friends and it's kind of funny because she has like this cute boyfriend and she's like okay single people try try your best and you're like I want to kill myself but it was a fun experience that's so fun I just have I think people keep a rolodex in your head of your

single friends like right now like I feel like I met you and I'm like I like this person yeah and then have a rolladex so when you meet another guy that you're like he's not right for me but oh I have these five girls in my head. Like that's what we need to do in life. And then if you do that three times, apparently you go to heaven. Oh, that's amazing. I think of the Jewish culture, that's what they say. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, even if it's accidental, like your boyfriend cheats on you and they get married. That'll, that's okay. It still counts. Because somehow you're connected involved in it. Um, sorry, it's got dark. But also do you feel external factors of pressure? Like, it's like cleaning your room where it's like, shoot, I should clean my room or shoot.

I should message men and put myself out. there. No, it feels like another part of my job. Because also, you know for what we do. Like, I'm online. I'm responding to DMs for two hours. And then I'm like, oh, fuck, I got to go message men. Oh my God. You're so right. It feels like another, another layer of messages. My job is talking and interaction with people. So anytime I don't have to, I am, I love it. I really love it. Are you an introvert? I'm an introvert. Me too. I think we're both, like, outgoing and bubbly. So people probably think that we're extroverts. Literally, I, I call myself the, like, the cocaine girl where people they look at me and they assume that I'm like down to clown I'm down to party I'm

stay up all night like people come up to me after my shows and be like I got cocaine and I'm like I want to go to sleep why do people think that about me that's amazing because I like want to be fun and then you really do convince people you're fun and then they're like okay fun girl let's party and I'm like I don't even like drinking that much I want a freaking reality show and I'm like I don't like drinking that much I'm like if you pay me I'll drink that's amazing oh my god yeah but I like like two drinks skincare bedtime I'm like what is your skin care care routine briefly. Because the order of it is tough for me. I wash my face with a cleansing bomb to take off any makeup. Then maybe I'll use a gel cleanser to double cleanse, which is a really

nice thing to do. And then lately I've been using this cream by Augustinus Botter. It's the best face cream I've ever tried in my life. How do you know it's good? Just the way my skin looks and feels. And I feel like my skin looks better than it did two years ago when I started using it. Wow. what's it called again Augustinus Bader B-A-D-E-R It's called the rich cream And his whole thing is he wants that

To be the closest thing to your skin So you don't even use a serum or anything You just put that on Great point about serums That you just said Just saying the word I get sent serums all the time And I have no idea what to do with them

I have vitamin E, vitamin C This gold one This hemp one I don't know what to do with them And where they belong in my routine So wash your face Let it dry Pat on serum

Let that like absorb and then put moisture on. So serum is packed with like active ingredients and then the moisturizer, like, locks that in and lets the active ingredients like really penetrate your skin. Thank you for that. My life that will never be the same now in a good way. I'm here to change lives. One more dark question. Yeah. Before we move on. When was the last time you were depressed? Oh, God, probably like last week. What happened? I was just feeling really lonely. like I love my life most of the time but sometimes it's just like you know I was traveling so much and like friends just start making plans without you or like I feel sad that I'm not dating anyone um and like you know the holidays can be hard because it's Christmas and Thanksgiving and everything people don't talk about how hard the holidays are they're like they're supposed to be fun yeah fun and that makes me have less fun yeah but everyone else is having fun yeah and you go on Instagram and everyone's lives look perfect I think because I'm cheerful no one ever realizes that like I can get pretty dark yeah yeah it's funny you use the word cheerful because

that's just like what we started with is like just because you present yourself with a smile that's also you being a people pleaser and like trying to make it a better experience for everyone like yeah yeah I want to smile and I want to hopefully at least make someone else smile yeah and I think cheerful and happy are two different things hopefully you're both yeah but sometimes I'm cheerful because I have to put on a happy face yeah and you don't want to ruin your mood to ruin like the mood of other people so that's just like an empathy type thing exactly you're doing amazing you're being so vulnerable um we're going to play a quick game called instaumosity do you remember one picture on your instagram where you looked happy but you weren't yes i mean honestly a lot of them

and this is a superficial thing but it's so fucking cold outside and i have to like smile and like take a picture like i'm so happy and i'm frozen yeah today i'm frozen I didn't wear mittens or gloves And I'm like Yesterday I went to this event For ASOs, their holiday party And they, it's so great That they let me like pick an outfit with a coat

To go to the event And I go, that's so nice. Oh, I saw you, you looked so cute You looked hot, that black dress And I just got a haircut So I'm low insecure But I did it I put myself out there

You looked great Thank you But I like It was this khaki jacket that was like too big for me And I was like I don't really want to wear this jacket I'm going to wear my own

So I get there it's an outdoor event no everyone's in there like ace those coats and i'm in my like frumpy like also it's freezing and then they're like okay let's take a photo and i'm like i'm so sorry i didn't wear my coat i didn't realize this is outdoor and they're like did you read the email and i'm like i don't read emails when was this i actually read a full email if you send me a paragraph text message i just read the first and last sentence so i took off the coat and i was like we're going to do this we have 20 seconds let's nail the photo yeah um so i understand how you feel yeah who are you you envious of on Instagram?

Ooh, I don't know. I really like my life. Like I see a lot of people with like cute families and things, but like I don't think I want kids. So like sometimes I'm like, oh, I want that. That's so cute. And then I'm like, or I see someone like with this beautifully styled life where they're traveling the globe and I'm like, that looks fun.

But then I'm like, but I like being home. Also, the travel photos make me laugh so much because it's like, was it worth, you know, all that crazy shit you did to get to that. So that photo? Little boat in Thailand. I don't know if I want to deal with all that just for that photo. I don't. Also, traveling with people is a fucking nightmare.

Yeah, so like those big press trips? No. Oh, I had a friend recently going one and she was just like no one talked to each other. Yeah. And then once she said she was like doing the Insta story just like around the room and some girl went up to her and she was like, don't you dare post that without a filter. Oh my God. Like there's some crazy.

Crazy people out there. I don't like those trips. I don't really do them. You used to? Yeah. I was younger because like someone invites you to like an all expense paid trip in Mexico or like do you get paid though no and that's the thing it takes me away from working and like doing things that actually make money yeah and it's not going to be fun yeah I think press trips have started to pay

but I don't have enough Instagram followers where people are like here we're going to pay you all this money to go on this trip usually they're just like sure to get followers for your career like I feel pressure to keep my followers like I am fine like with I I mean, I'd love to grow. Yeah. But at the same time, like, I just want the people that follow me to become more invested and loyal. Yeah.

And that's great. I think that's what Instagram's about is creating a community. And if the people who are following you are engaged and, like, when it's in your podcast. Like, that's what I'm trying to cultivate with my following. Like, I'd rather lose 100,000, but keep whatever 75 who are, like, super fucking cool. I agree. Just the cool people only.

Would you date a guy who didn't have an Instagram? Oh, I love guys who don't have. social media like all of my everyone i've dated seriously except for like one or two um has like not really been on instagram do you think you could date a guy influencer i don't think so well maybe maybe i've like had crushes on not a fashion influencer okay like i've had crushes on people yeah your closets would be insane yeah like a food influencer or maybe a travel maybe a travel influencer what about a fitness influencer i don't really like guys are like in super good shape yeah i don't see that first i like a bad bod. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want a guy who's, like, vain about his body. No, or like it's

spray tans. Oh, God. The only one getting spray tans in this relationship is me. Yes. I need to be the pretty one. Oh, yeah. I don't like guys with like pretty noses. I like guys with like noses that look like they've been broken before. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I like a guy who's like a little scruffy. A little ugly hot. Okay, good. We agree. Yeah. What would make you delete a photo? When was the last time you delete a photo? I don't really delete them. I don't really delete them. I just post it and like sometimes my photos do so badly and I'm like oh my god I posted this like it was a stupid sign it was just said like does shivering count as a workout or something yeah and it did so bad and I just don't understand because I thought it was so funny

it's clearly been stuck in your head you're like I don't know why but it was so good that I was like should I like delete it and then post it another time because I thought it was great I know you have to just stand by it and sometimes you have to be like well the algorithm didn't get me today just blame the algorithm I'm just going to blame the algorithm A guy doesn't like you. Just blame the algorithm. Yeah. How do you think your real identity is different from your Instagram identity?

I think it's probably, I think people don't realize that I'm quite snarky. Like I love to, like, with my girlfriends, like, I love to talk shit and like just like. It's funny because I met you through Lisa and Richie who have their own podcast called. What's it called? We don't deserve dogs. We don't deserve dogs. I was just on it. I love them.

They're amazing. And they were like, they were naming people to come of my podcast. And I was like, oh, I follow Grace. And they were like, she's so funny. And I was like, really? They said I was funny and that made me, like, I was like, I think being called funny is my new love language. They put how funny I was in their story and like, I don't think I'm that funny. But I was so happy.

I was like, they called me funny. They literally like you have to have her. She's like she doesn't try to be funny. She just has this natural air. But I think when you hang out with a lot of comedians, it's this obnoxious, like, constant need to be funny or make people laugh. And sometimes you're like, the fact that you need me to laugh at you this whole time is exhausting me. So some of the people I love to be around who are funniest are the ones who like, they're not even trying to be funny. Yeah, I think some people are.

Yeah. You have a good sense of humor regardless. I think I have a great sense of humor. I don't think I'm funny. And I think it's like, it's a, some people will say like girls who laugh a lot, they'll be like, oh, she's so funny just because she's laughing, which is like from the male perspective. That's a different thing. I have this thing where I'm sick of people being like, I want to find a guy who makes me laugh.

Like, I want to find a guy that like we laugh at the same time, at the same thing. Yes. Or I definitely make him laugh. Yes. Because I've been with guys who don't laugh at my stuff because of like an ego thing. Oh. And then I'm like, I can't orgasm.

Yeah. You don't laugh at my jokes. Yeah. It's my love language. Yeah. You need to think I'm funny. Okay. The final, final game.

It's called the Seven Dudley Sense. Oh, okay. Oh, I've heard you do this. I listen to your. episode with The Girls Got to Eat Girls and with Shanae Alexander. Oh, I love Shanae. I love her. You did your research too, girl. Yeah, I listened to you. Thank you. Yeah. That makes me happy. I'm a subscriber. Everyone subscribe to this podcast if you don't already. Yeah, and definitely subscribe to that on paper. You can't do anything better. Um, what are? Your Wednesdays just got so much

better. Two hours, both of us. What are you greedy about cats? Well, I'd really like to have more than one cat, but like I also don't want to die alone. I'm greedy about my cat. When I've gone to dates with guys, the first date, I've gotten like pretty aggressive where I'm just like, are your parents still together? Like, are you an addict? Like, I just go to. Yeah.

And I'm like, are you allergic to cats or not? I just need to know. That's important. It is. It's never going to work if you're allergic to cats. Cats are part of my life. And if Butter doesn't like you, sorry. Yeah.

I recently had a guy sleep over and butter was very unhappy that she sleeps with me at night and he was lying there on his back and she decided to like run over the bed over his chest and he like aggressively and he kind of flinched and like hit me in the face accidentally and I was like you evil bitch you planned that yeah then he stayed over again and I was like was butter better during the night because I never know what she I'm so used to her she could walk up it down my body and I'm passed out. He goes, she didn't do anything, but mentally she was hurting me. At any moment, she could strike. So she is emotional terrorist. So cats are great for relationships. They are. Tearing would get very upset when I had a boyfriend because he was

like, where do I go? Like, suddenly there was no room for him. Would he like the boyfriends? Yes. Usually, like anyone I date serious, he doesn't like new people, but like people like boyfriends. He likes. He shouldn't trust them in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Tyrion. That's so good. Yeah. Who are you envious of in general? Um. Or who do you look up to?

Like your, I really look up to my parents. I think that they're like such good people. They're so, like they're so funny but also so nice and so kind. And I just always like, I watch my mom. She is like the busiest person.

She like never sits still and she's like always doing something. Oh, my mom is like that I hate it. I'm like, take a fucking break. I'm always like, come sit down and read. Like, and meanwhile, she's like cooking me something.

delicious and like doing nice things the amount of energy my mom has is insane i don't understand i'm like am i going to be like that when i'm in my 60s or will i just be like oh like now it's time to just like do nothing every guy that dates me says that my mom is like the better version of me because she's like me except she has her shit altogether like she can cook and she can clean and she has an amazing job and she's just like on her shit in every capacity um what do you glutness about cheese i love cheese like give me a cheese plate like any day like i'm not really a sweets person but like cheese cheese flavored things like cheese curds i don't know at wisconsin okay it's literally these little it's it's it's different than mozzarella sticks because it's

these like just little chunks of curds when they're making cheese they like pulled off the top and then they fry it oh that i mean if it's fried and it's related to cheese i love it you were if you ever even next time you go chicago try to get cheese curds okay um that was a really important thing for me to tell you about because it's important when was the last time you experienced It's extreme wrath. Sorry, I'm laughing because imagining you really angry makes me laugh. It was at a brand with a partnership and they, like, approved my content way too late. And then I, like, really fucked with my editorial calendar.

And I was, like, just, like, yelling at the computer. Dude, dealing with brands, I just started. And I've had some nightmarish stuff where, like, they, one brand told me to do something for, like, Thanksgiving. And I got my family together because I had to be, like, a friend's giving. I used my brother, his fiance. It's really hard when it involves other people. Yeah, they were like, oh, make it a party. I'm like, oh, I'm throwing a party for this into store.

And I, like, got food and we put food and we filmed it. And they go, can we actually do this in selfie mode? And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Then I do it. And they're like, we don't know if your like voices on brand for us. And I'm like, I'm a comedian. I wrote a certain joke. I could write a different joke.

And then eventually they were like, yeah, we don't think this is going to be a fit. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Oh, my God. I wasted all my time. I had that happen with a T brand. They make these really. nice tamaric teas and I did this whole thing for them about um like relaxation and taking some time for yourself during the holidays they didn't like it because my apartment wasn't festively decorated and i was

like i didn't get a christmas tree this year because i'm not home oh my god um so that was fun and then we just had to cancel the whole thing because they wanted a reshoot and i was like i'm not getting a christmas tree just for you no and also that's some bullshit like someone like set a rule like yeah right before they left a meeting being like make sure everything's festive or we're not doing it and then just left and now they're like it's so weird. I had to cancel the whole thing and I was like pissed because I paid a photographer to help me shoot it and stuff. Influenza problems you guys. This is what you don't see behind the lens. Yes. You only get this on burning in hell. When is the last time you were a sloth?

I think it was yes. It was last night. What'd you do? So I went to a holiday party for a brand but I was a little hungover because two nights ago I went to the cat's premiere and it's so weird but it's so fun it's weird but good yes okay and I stayed out I went to the after party was Taylor there yes do you like Taylor Swift yes was it everything you wanted to be yes okay but I Idris Elba was also there and he's so hot Jennifer Hudson like it was like a star something gossip be a weird happen no I wish it did I would tell you if it did um but I was hung over did anyone punch anyone Yes, you were hungover. I ate three quarters of a pizza and watched old gossip girl and it was great.

Oh, that sounds amazing. Yeah. I love shitty reality TV. That's my go-to. Okay. What are your favorite shows? I will watch, I think, are you the one on MTV is this show? It's just this mental warfare of these like 12 guys, 12 girls.

And they figured out one person is like your soulmate according to like a lot of data. and you have to figure it out. It's really sickening. I do love The Bachelor, even though it's kind of annoying because everyone gets so famous from it. Yeah. And I'm like,

you're not here with the fucking Rite Raisins. But it's sort of like Bachelor in Paradise. I've been watching The Hills a little. Is that still on or is it old? It's old. It's old. I like watching Vanderpump Rules and Southern Charm. I do love Southern Town.

If you like Southern Charm, you'll love Summer House. Okay, I'm going to watch it just to watch you. You should watch start season three. That's when it really got good. Okay. And actually, Shep and Craig and Austin came to our party this last summer, so they're going to be on this season. Oh, that's so fun. I like the little bravo mix crossovers.

When was the last time you let your pride get in the way of something? Probably with that partnership. I was like, fuck it. I'm not reshooting. Yeah. And I was like, I'm done. Yeah, you get in these moments where you with money with these partnerships where you're like, okay, this is $2,000, but is it worth it?

Well, if someone was like, do this for a day for $2,000, you're like, yes, but I'm like, do you want to post this photo for $2,000? And then you somehow convince yourself like, now. Yeah, I know. It's like spoiled influencer problems, but it becomes your reality. Yeah. And it gets, my value of money has really been skewed. Yeah.

Since doing it. Yeah. In the worst kind of way. When was the last time you lusted over someone? Oh. I'm like having such a dry spell right now with men. Oh, I do have a crush. There's a guy that I, I can't say who. There's a guy. Just full name. Just full name. Yeah. Just the full name. I almost said it. Who is he? Like where, how do you know him from? I met him at a party a few years ago. And he's, he's with somebody. So it's just like a crush. Got to wait it out. Waiting it out. Just waiting it out. Um, um, yeah. One final thing. Why don't you want kids?

Um, you know, I just have never been particularly maternal. I love, I have a niece and two nephews and I like them so much. And I'm not totally against it. Like, if I like fell head over heels, like, I would love that. I would say I think I'd be a great stepmother. So like, if a guy had kids, I'd be into it. Ooh. I also like don't like, like, like the idea of being pregnant just like grosses me out.

Um, it just sounds so awful. Like I'm such a hypochondriac. I hate going to the doctor. You have to go so much. I just watched my sister. Like she got gestational diabetes. She was always of the doctors. Her daughter had so many problems when she was born.

But now like the daughter is one and she's the most perfect human. Yeah. I'm like, oh, it's worth it. You're going to be a great aunt. Yeah. So, and I think I'm just really selfish right now. I think that I'm like really hitting my stride with my career. And I wish that I was 28 as all this was happening, but I'm 38.

So the reality, maybe I'll have. kids when I'm 40. But I kind of love that it's like, you also could be 38 and have not done any of this and been stuck in your marketing job that you hated. Yeah, and maybe I'd have two kids in like a whole different life. Yeah. And I'd also, that you didn't want maybe. And I'd argue like, I think, oh, what if I was doing this when I was 22? When I was 22 or 24, I wouldn't have had the confidence to go on a reality TV show because I didn't know who I was to the extent that I do now. I wouldn't be able to go on a podcast and think I had anything worth saying because I was like not in the right place. Totally. So it's really true that I think it's great that at this time in your life,

you're using all of your knowledge. And there's a reason why people like reading and listening to you. Yeah. A final question. Yes. To wrap this all up is what do you do to cope with your hell? What advice would you give to the listeners? Honestly, like, I'm probably your oldest and most boring guests. But my favorite thing is to take a bath. Like I live in the bathtub if I'm having a bad day. I take a bath. I pour a glass of wine or a glass of sparkling water if I'm like trying not to drink or whatever. Um, and I, I sit with a book or like if I'm like, if it's real bad, I like play Candy Crush or something and just like tune out a little bit. And give yourself that alone time. Yeah. Do you ever get afraid of being with your own thoughts though when you're

feeling bad? That's why you read a book. So you're not thinking you're just like, you're just distracted. Can you give us another book recommendation for people to read and if they'd like it to DM you about it. Yes. So the first one is idea of you. It's amazing. It's just so great. It's like such a good escape book. The second, so my favorite books, like my little line on the podcast has become like, treat yourself to a murder. Like I love a murder thriller. Oh, I love. That's what I meant to say when it's I love murder documentaries. And I consider them a little reality TV-esque. Well, you need to read the book American Predator. Okay. Forget the name. The one, Maureen Callahan, I believe, is the author. It's all true and it's about one of the biggest serial killers in the U.S. And it's absolutely fascinating.

I love that. It will make you not ever want to go outside. I love serial killers. I love cults. Oh, me too. Oh my God. We are, we need to be best friends. Yeah, we have to. Yes. I don't know how this hasn't happened before. I know. Um, so Hannah's my new best friend and my wife. And the other book you guys all need to read is called Verity by Colleen Hoover. And that is like, it was so twisted and fucked up that I had to get out of my house. Like, and I went and I met my friend for drinks at like 10 p.m. and, like, got so drunk because of the book. I mean, also, like, it was a friend of, yeah.

That shit is real. Where can people follow you? You can follow me at at Grace Atwood on Instagram. My podcast is Bad on Paper podcast and my blog is the stripe.com. Amazing. And if you guys enjoyed or really loved anything that was said or done, screenshot and post and tag us, also rate, subscribe, review because I need the affection. And I love you guys.

I'll talk to you guys later in hell.