Berner Phone - Ian Gelfand: Behind The Scenes Of Reality TV & Discovering Cardi B

Episode Date: December 4, 2019

Ian explains how he discovered Cardi B,  getting bullied growing up, the importance of empathy, how to become a show runner in the business, how he balanced his busy career and marriage, how he knew his wife was the one, his friendship with 50 cent, why famous people can be very shitty, why he thinks he’s lazy, and curbing your ego. LISTEN TO ME ANALYZE THE SUMMER HOUSE TRAILER ON PATREON HERE (posting it by 3pm on Dec 4th) --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Also, you may know that Summerhouse Season 4 is coming out February 5th, and the trailer just dropped. So on patreon.com slash burning in hell, I'm analyzing, overanalyzing every moment of the trailer with my friend, Bravo expert, Michelle Cheech. Check it in the description, patreon.com, if you're interested in hearing that. Do you hate your voice? I hate my voice. Oh, my God. I hate my voice. Why? it's just so nasally and so so you were like i hate my voice i think i'm going to go be a stand-up comedian talk at people yeah i mean i hate my voice and i wanted to subject other people

the horrible of my horrible voice welcome to burning heaven And I want to subject all the burning in hell listeners to you right now because we are, this is a very special day. Today I have my boss, a very special man in my life besides my dad. He's only traumatized me a little bit, a lot less than my dad. He's the showrunner of Summer House. I'm saying your credits right now.

Okay, go for it. He's a former stand-up comedian. He's not funny anymore, but he used to be. and big-time director and producer of your favorite reality TV shows. I'm about to drop a lot of stuff. Okay. Love and Hip Hop, Duck Dynasty, which is the number one show ever on television cable ever. Cable television.

Yeah. Alaskan Bush people, House hunters, wide range of people we're talking about, Summer House, and the last season of Real Housewives of Dallas. He's also worked on Saturday Night Live. He knows Oprah, which is probably the biggest credit here. he has. He's been emanated for Emmys. He's been emanated. He's been emanated for Emmys. Eaminated. And he's known for discovering Cardi B. That is like the rumor that goes around about you. Like or whenever I meet someone, I'm like,

oh, you know, Ian, isn't it crazy you discovered Cardi B? What's the actual story with that? When you say discovered, you know, I was just in a strip club. I don't know. I was like, I like her. No. Well, I'll tell you the true story. A lot of people take credit for this, no joke, like at Love and Hip Hop. A lot of people take credit like that they were the ones or, you know, and, you know, I don't want to disparage any names per se, but... Give us the full names. But Mona Sky Young is known to be like the person behind love and hip-hop, and in many ways she is. Absolutely, you know, all like that. but I will say Vivian Gomez who was the executive producer

on the network side like how we have network execs on our show Vivian really loved Cardi like just she was the one who was like I love this girl I didn't even know who she was

and she already had some Instagram fame yeah she was getting big on Instagram but I mean your average person not necessarily maybe you know in certain demographics were into her because of Instagram and but she was coming up like this is how Vivian knew her was Instagram like oh Cardi so then she's like oh Ian you got to see Cardi whatever she's great we brought her in to talk to her and uh after that meeting I was like

oh she's amazing like she's gonna you know she'll be great and and I well why did you think she was amazing. Well, that show was, you know, you're looking for people within the realm of hip hop that have a story to tell. And I hate to use the word crazy. It describes a lot of things. But she just had like a huge personality, someone who wouldn't let you fuck with her. He's fearless. Yeah, really, really out there fearless. And I was like, wow, she's She's got something. Vivian and I got resistance from a lot of people because they felt that she might be too much

or maybe wouldn't fit in well and all. And many people, even after we shot our first few times with her, people were like, I want to get her off the show. She's too much of a wild card. I don't know what she'll say. I don't know. And I'm like, but isn't that good? Isn't that a good thing that she?

Because then the audience feels the same way about her. Like, what's she going to do this episode? Yeah, you're always, and even with her, personally, if you sit with her, you're a little off-kilter. Like, what's about to happen? Like, oh, no, like, is she going to- She has such a natural, like, comedic talent, even in her Instagram stories. Like, you never know how it's going to end. Like, she always has a spin on it, and she's, she is unique.

Is it crazy to have the power to know that with your decision, and a couple other people's, but, like, you could really change someone's life? yeah all the time like every show you work at of course like how I destroyed your life it's ridiculous but it's true you've had a huge effect on my life and I meet people all the time

who are like oh Ian help me with this Ian help me with that it's a lot a lot of what is the Spider-Man quote with great power comes great responsibility are you responsible with your power well now you're going overboard I don't know if I have any power

but, you know, I don't know. That's a hard thing to say. Like, I push for people that I think will be good on this show that I'm about to do because it makes my job easier. Do you think you have a good sense of character? Like, you can immediately tell. Like, are you pretty good with your choices? I'm okay with it.

I think I overall have made good choices that have helped shows do better. Like, my goal is never for necessarily the individual. it's for the good of the show like we're all in the show together so when presented with options which I'm not always presented with but when presented

I think who will be best to make this show a great entertainment and where people want to watch and are excited and stuff like that so that's what I try to who would I want to watch oh this person is cool oh they have this or that

and that's what I pick and then a lot of times it's worked out, but it's really luck in the drawer. All of these things. Well, yeah, you're dealing with humans, and humans are, you never know what's going to happen. It's true. Humans are crazy, and there's so many variables to these shows.

Do you find that at this point in the industry, you're making so many decisions that are just based on your intuition? Are you good at listening to your intuition? I guess that's all I have is, you know, just, I don't know if I call it intuition, because also half the time I, you know, think, I'm about to die of a heart attack or like, and my intuition's wrong. Because you're overall a little bit of an anxious individual.

Yeah, I worry a lot. I just worry a lot. I want every, I'm sure you're this way to, I want everything I do to be great. Yeah. And so I just worry it won't be. And I feel like you're always over your head, in my opinion. Some people approach this job and the things I do with lots. of confidence and they so sure themselves and I'm always jealous of those people like

how are you so sure of yourself like none of this is short like you can't be there's no way to be sure but I guess they're really good at faking it I guess or or it's a way of hiding me insecurity and which is faking it but yeah I just lean into it it it helps me I just lean it like what do I know but also what I love about you as a boss is when why I wanted you on the podcast I've had so many shitty egotistical bosses. And I think because you don't go in with your ego and being like, okay, team, you know, we're about to, I'm the king, and this is what we're going to do, because everything I say is right, you are not like that at all. And I feel like you're about bringing out the best in people. Were you always a leader like that?

First, I want to correct something. She said the reason she wanted me on the pie. I forced her to put me on the podcast. No, I always wanted you. But we were, like, kind of playing a game with each other. He's like, do you want me on? I'm like, yeah, I do. But I wasn't going to be like, hey, cancel all your important meetings with networks and come on my podcast.

Well, you know, when you started it, I was like, oh, I'm going to help her out. And then your podcast took off. And I'm like, wait a second. I want to be on this thing. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I want to do a little bit of celebrity gossip because that's why I brought you here. Oh, okay.

You're best friends with 50 Cent. How'd you guys meet? Okay, I wouldn't say best friends, but... I love him, by the way. Like, I grew up with 50 cents. Every single birthday, everyone, when we were like 10, 11, 12, 13, we just play, you know, in the club. He's, so there, okay, so here's an example of being nice to everybody on your crew and what happens. So there was a guy who was PA for me named...

Chris. So Chris Conrad, great guy. I love him. He would PA all the time with another guy named Harry, Harry Watson, and they PA'd on a lot of promos I would do for MTV and commercial and things. At the time, I would also do crew work sometimes, like when writing work wasn't coming or I was in. So I'd do some sound here or there, like, you know, when you have kids, you do whatever. But it's also great to know someone.

different facets of your job sure absolutely um and you also know what it's like to be on the crew and on the crew side and you know sitting there judging everyone you're shooting but uh but those two guys were super sweet guys and i would always like you know if i could get them work i would like just just trying to be nice to everybody was going around yes and uh chris it turns out chris was very close with 50. So at the time I had a Stephen King movie I was trying to make and I was and 50 had an overall at Lionsgate, I think it was. He had like a 20 picture deal at Lionsgate. And I also was working with a tequila company called Luna Nuava like a friend of mine approach. Oh, we have this tequila. Would you help us? Maybe get someone. So I was talking to Chris and Chris is like these are the

types of things I want to bring 50 like to show my value to him and we grew up so Chris's older brother was with 50 in the hood doing whatever they did in those days and they're super close. Tudering Yes

after school Lemonade stands. Anyway so Chris set it up and I went in and met with my partners on both projects and we went to this house and he

He sent a Bentley with a driver and we went up and up Doheny into the hills and we went to his house and we pitched him the ideas. Ultimately, he never attached himself to either of those. But we got along okay there and then I would see him from time to time and I'd be like, oh, I'm Chris's friend, you know, and we would... Was he different than what you thought he'd be like? Wow. You know, I don't really have expectations of people like in general, but, uh, yeah, yeah, within reason, yeah, basically, uh, was he just like doing pull-ups when you walked in? No, no. Uh, but he's, he's a really smart guy. Um, and, uh, he knows how to charm when you want, when he wants to be charming. Well, his personality and like charisma is incredible. Yeah. When he, he's, um, and, he's, he knows how to charm. You want, when he wants to be charming.

Yeah, when he smiles, like he lights up a room, he knows how to hold attention of people, but he'll also be an introvert a lot and step back. And then basically he had a show 50 Central, which I did, and that came up, and he remembered me, and he always heard good things and this and that, and together we ended up working on that show. And every show I'm on, as you hear my voice, I was just saying how I hate my voice. everybody does impressions of me.

I'm sure also the Calf's the Summer House. I did it like the second weekend I was doing impression of you and they were like he can hear you and I was like

oh my God he can hear me and then I was like oh my god he's gonna hate me but I have that like comedy brain where I'm just and I'm like he'll get it he gets it I'm just like it was a pretty good impression

at the time I don't know and they were like oh Ian's gonna hate you and then I like saw you the next day and you were nice to me I'm like okay I don't think he either And I'm like, he's not listening to us at 2 a.m. fucking around, making the impressions of people. Well, I'll say this. I love that people do.

I never think it's with malice. I always feel like this. Well, you just have a particular, like, voice in a particular way about you. So my favorite is 50 does an impression of me. And when he does it, I just feel like, wow, 50 cent is doing an impression of me. And he does it physically, too. like I'm always talking like and he'll come to me like I what should I you know that's one of my favorite things he's in the bravo sphere because he's always fighting with Lala

Kent and this pissed me off and I told them this pissed me off because their ratings went up because of this and I'm like why don't you pick a fight with someone on my show can I fight with my ratings instead you're helping fucking Vanderpump because it brings them to like a new level of celebrity when you're fighting with 50 cents i'm from brooklyn like i have some street cred i could start some shit with him you could tell me some like fofty would go for you tell me his biggest pet peeve oh oh i mean chewing with your mouth open okay i'm gonna find him toothed her mouth open in front of him uh he just hates when people try to get over like like that's his biggest thing as someone

tries to get over and like explain try to get over that means like using him yeah like using his name We're using, like if I went somewhere and I was like, you know, 50 says that this would be like. People just do that all the time because like I'm on Summerhouse. I am a minuscule celebrity compared to him. And like people already, my people who don't even know me would be like, oh, I'm friends with Hannah. Like, can I get this? And like all the good. And people don't know me.

And brands will be like, hey, this person said they're friends with you. I'm like, I'm not. So I can't imagine the times a million shit that he has to deal with. I got in trouble with him because. So you fought with 50, too. No, I don't fight, but his, whatever, he has, like, his lawyer, who's sort of like his manager, but his lawyer, great guy, Steve Saav is his name, really awesome dude. After my first season on Summer House, Lindsay knew his PR person or something, and he was

going to be in the Hamptons, and she wanted to try to arrange something where they'd do something with 50 just for promotional purposes. And she reached out and wrote a whole and used my name and then his and then Steve calls me like what the fuck are you doing? Like are you trying to get and that's his biggest

pet peeve is if I were to try to use him without talking or something and yeah I had like I had no idea this was happening. You know please but I want to

start beef with 50s but I love 50 I wouldn't ever want to be mad at me and he'd blow up my spot on Instagram I see how petty he gets yes um you also you know JLo you know Oprah you know Mariah who's like a favorite celebrity of yours that you've met who's like refreshingly nice and cool or who's a monster well uh so for years I worked for for uh MTV so you meet everybody like you know doing these promos or interviews so like unsurprisingly Ringo Star

nicest guy in the world just and he was a hero of mine and I worked with him very early in my career in production and I remember the night before I couldn't sleep like oh my God I'm meeting Ringo fucking star and then we ended up working

a few times together and he's a type of guy remembers your name he's a fucking beetle and he's like You know, and he introduces himself to everybody. I love that. Like just... I love that. No ego, no pretense.

And same with Paul McCartney, met him. And so those guys, amazing. Worked with Mariah Carey a bunch. She is a reputation for being a diva. She's a little bit different than the Beatles are. And one of the first times I worked with her, I was at Sony Music Studios. It's no longer they're.

on 54th and 10th and you couldn't be in the hallway when she walked down the hallway like you weren't allowed to be in the hallway and that was more Tommy Mottola her ex who was very didn't like her talking to anyone and this and that but uh yeah she's were you the one that told me about JLo that like if anyone wanted to talk to her they she had to they had to give her two compliments and then ask the question No, I don't know J-Lo like that. Like I've worked on one or two things with her, but never really in her vicinity really with her. Yeah. So I don't know her like that. Mariah, I worked with a bunch. She was all over MTV. I mean, you know, whatever back in the day.

But she loves you, doesn't she? Yeah, I mean, I think if you said my name, I don't think she would put it together. But if she saw me, I think she'd be like, hey, how are you? Like, she's, uh... So this concept of celebrity fascinates me by like how it can affect people because your world is different and you interact with people in different ways and it could like, why do you think it changed, it really affects people in such different ways? Being a celebrity? Yeah, like...

Oh, I mean... Is it just because some people are assholes and some aren't? No, I just think, you know, when you're celebrity, everyone, and I told you this, I remember you and myself and you and Paige were talking. And you're never friends with celebrities, per se, unless you knew them before. Once they're celebrities, everybody wants something from them. So your relationship is more transactional. And if someone likes you and, you know, whoever they are, they're famous, but you get along and your friends, are you really friends?

Yeah, you'll hang out and stuff, but there's more of like, We're both on a similar plane, and we can help each other. And one day, even if it's not today, we'll do a show. Yeah, even if you meet someone who isn't of your status when you're that big of a celebrity and you get along, you still can't help but be insecure that the person is going to try to use you in some capacity. So, but then that's why dating is also really hard when you get that famous. Sure. If you can't even trust your friends, how do you trust someone trying to be like your partner in life?

Well, you know, it's funny because so I never know, like, when I, coming up, as I was coming up, not everybody liked me. Not everyone was nice to me. Like, there were people who didn't like me, and that's fine. Like, you meet all different types of people. Maybe I wasn't forceful enough for some people and they didn't like that or they felt I was this or whatever. Now I'm a showrunner. Nobody is mean to me. Like, nobody's mean to me.

So it can't be that all of a sudden I'm so lovable that everybody's nice to me. And I try to be nice to everyone, but you haven't like changed in some crazy way. I'm not like, oh, moving up the ladder, you know, successfully, now I'm a much better person and all like that. I was talking to my mom last night at dinner and I was like, the biggest thing that's changed with me is that like people want to be my friend. like before I wasn't like that good at making friends and I've been like slightly different so like I would hit it off with some people but I wasn't like good friends

I didn't have big friend groups and now like I'll meet people and they're immediately like interested in me where before like you meet people and they're like okay cool and they're on to the next thing and I'm like mom it's so weird everyone wants to be my friend but I'm not that good at friends like I don't really know how to deal with a lot of friends

I don't really want to deal with a lot of friends and I was like do you deal with that as like a principal of one of top middle schools in Brooklyn and she's like yeah except people don't want to be my friend they're they more just want to get on my good side like the parents so like I'm not even making like friendships so it is you see it's a clear pattern like when I go into a bar and I'm and at someone's random birthday where normally I'd be like shoot no one's talking to me this is so awkward I have to find someone to talk to you instead it's like people talking to and you're like why do you want to talk to me I'm not that much better than I was a year ago but even this podcast you just asked me

about famous people. Yeah. Like you just ask, what are they really like? What are, like, there's a thing. People want to be like, like, I don't go into places and go 50 cents my best friend. I don't do that. That's like silly. But you hear people like, you know, Hannah from Summerhouse, I just hung out with her last night.

What does that have to do with anything in your life? Nothing, but they want to be attached to Summerhouse in some way. Like there's something about fame. There's something bigger. Yeah. It is so fascinating. It's very fascinating to me. One of my best friends, I said that no one's mean to me at work like everyone's nice and I and I don't like. It's like someone who grew up being bullied. I don't like the idea that maybe someone's not being authentic with me. And again, and my friend said, is everyone nice to you? And I said yes. He goes, well, appreciate that because nobody gets that in life where everyone's nice to them at work. you should just appreciate that you're in a position where everyone's nice of you and who cares if they mean it or not.

And so then I start thinking like those very famous people who marry like the 24-year-old girl that obviously either wants the fame or the money or something like that. They must know. They're not like fooling themselves, but they're like, okay, it's transactional. So that's what I mean. As things get bigger, all of those things are transactional and you decide like, okay, I'll make this transaction. And also, when you get that big, you've made conscious decisions transactionally for

yourself because you want that success. Like, you want that career. You want, you're addicted to whatever reason for the attention or for the fame or for the money. I'm going to marry Tom Cruise. We're going to set this up, his PR, and my PR, and we're going to go on a date, and they'll see us on whatever, and then that's going to help my career. Yeah, they have an album dropping coming out soon, so they get a divorce. and then you see the PR publicity.

Were you naturally a good leader growing up, or did you just, like, have good mentors growing up? Because leadership is a very unique quality to have. You know, this is what I'll say. Growing up, I was really a wimpy kid and like a mom's boy and very... I was picked on. I was bullied.

You know, not horribly. I don't want to compare myself with these people, like you know someone's transgender and getting both nothing like that but you know you go to school and people would bully me i was small for my age and i think from that there are two ways you can go you can get a hard shell and like fuck everybody i hit or you get really empathetic and empathy to me is the key in any leadership role if you have empathy and people feel understood they'll give you everything that they have like you know you so you get to support them you understand where they're they're coming from and when they feel understood they'll that's so powerful and wise very wise this

is why i got you on the podcast we have a real adult here today yeah i'll say the two biggest qualities i think for show running or even in life are um our empathy and patience that that that can give you patience is hard though especially our generation that's all about instant gratification like right now I could check my phone and immediately have emails I can respond to and notifications and text someone that I want to hear back in two seconds. Everything is so quick. Well, you're right, but I think the patience I'm talking about is interpersonal. Like sitting with someone who's talking to you, having patience with their issues that they

want to express, having empathy and then patience to listen and let them get it out. because you also have work to do as a showrunner or even if you're on the show where it's like, okay, I hear you, let's get back to work. But without the patience of, you know what, I'm going to give this person 10 more minutes so that they feel heard and listen to. And I know exactly where they're coming from.

Those, that extra time and that extra patience and empathy and positivity will, help them for much more than the 10 minutes it took you to give them that extra time. A hundred percent. I also think there's a lot of leaders that like to instill fear, which is like a, like in sports, it is a coaching technique. I never responded well to that because I have enough fear going on myself that I don't need other people doing it.

But I feel like with you, you're one of the first bosses that I wasn't trying to like scare people around him. Like a lot of bosses are like, when you're, talking to them, you're like, oh, they're thinking of something else. They don't want me to be here, and the next thing you know, you forget what you're saying, and then you're like, I'm just going to go fuck myself. But with you, it was after filming and we had, like, a dinner, and then I, for some reason, like, we were driving somewhere, and you have, like, your nice car, and I was like,

oh, my God, I'm in the show, I'm with the showrunner, what do I say? And it was just such a, like, relaxed, cool interaction, and I forgot you were my boss, and there was a beautifulness about it. I think it takes confidence in yourself to be able to be like, I'm not going to, you know, big time this person. I'm going to empathize and make them feel comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Do I come across scary? Like at first? People don't understand. Like, you're a big, big wig in the industry. You could scare everyone if you wanted to. I think you should do that for Halloween. Just like call all your employees.

Well, you have tried to fire me before as a prank, which was not funny. Well, we'll tell that story. I got her really good. But this is, We'll get back to that. Basically, my style, I kind of put together my own thing that works for me. And it came from mostly looking at bosses I had in deciding what not to do. Like, oh, my God, I'll never do that when I'm in charge. Or, oh, I'll never do that when I'm in charge. And not to quote the Bible.

I'm not religious at all been due on to others as you would want, you know. And working reality TV is really. just like a big psych ward I feel like every job is a big psych ward but it's more like you really have to understand people and why they are the way they are especially to make a good show but then also to lead people it's like if you don't listen

you won't even understand what you're dealing with and I feel like some bosses don't listen yeah I think I think being self-aware is also really important I'm always scared I'm Michael Scott that's my worst fear in the world Like, you know, like I'll pick up a guitar and start playing. And then I'm like, oh, my God, I'm Michael Scott.

You did pick up a guitar one. And I'm just like, that's my way. And I'll ask people around me, like, close producer friends. Are my Michael Scott or my, like, a loser who thinks everyone likes him and they're all like. But whatever, that's my fear. But when I was coming up, I felt there were with, like, the Boston. I have were either withholding, which works for a little while, like, oh, I want to impress them. Like, I can't get that approval. And I want that approval. And I'm just going to...

Like, it takes so much to even get eye contact with them and then you get nervous. But then eventually, you give up. If you can never get approval, you're like, well, fuck it. What the hell am I doing? So that can work in the short term, but it won't work in the long term. And then there are people who are, you know, gruff and you want to be on your P's and Q's because you don't want them to snap. But you always feel like it's like an abusive relationship. Like you always feel like fuck any minute. I like you're unsettled. Yes. And that's especially in a creative field. When I'm my best is when I feel like I could throw anything at the wall and then I'll have other people give me creative like constructive criticism. Absolutely. I,

The one thing I tell my whole team of producers is like, it's okay to fail. Yeah. Like everyone fails. Like baseball players fail more than they succeed. Like they bat 300 out of the fact. But that's considered awesome. I love that sports metaphor.

So I love the idea, like permission to fail helps you do your best work. And I don't care if things go wrong. We'll deal with it in the moment and figure it out. So you have a lot of staff, I call them staff, but a lot of staff that love you. How do you make sure that you're not like too buddy, buddy with them? I don't know. It's, you know, this is, I'll tell you, this is, I think the problem with the way that I show run is that I do get close. Like it becomes like a family.

I care about everybody that I work with. I love them all, and boy, they get on my nerves. Like, it's like a family. Oh, yeah. I mean, I love them, but at times it's like, oh, so my whole. You know everyone's tendencies in the long hours, you're like, yep, this guy's going to start getting annoying if he doesn't stop for lunch right now. Yeah, it's, I always had this idea as I was moving up the ranks like,

oh, once I'm director, then I'll have more creative power. Oh, once I'm showrunner. And it's true, you get more input on the creative, but you also get 10 times more responsibility in management. Oh, yeah. And so now it's like I get to kind of guide things creatively, but I have. But you can't successfully be creative if you're not managing the team, right?

Correct. And this is also a problem a lot of showrunners have, where and I this is what I get the most like this is what I understand the most showrunners who don't interact with their producers in a positive way because they get so frustrated like we're at work just do the work like why do I need to know your personal emotional problems that are going on at work or outside like oh he said this but leading that way you don't get the best of your people it's very very reminds me because my mom's a principal of a middle school so she deals with like the parents and

the teachers and the kids and a lot of the times the issues with the kids is stuff with maybe their parents at home or stuff that happened online on instagram the night before but you can't ignore that stuff because it's affecting how the kid is performing in school so it's it's a tough interpersonal slash like professional gig for people who are listening can you just define what the roles of a showrunner is um Because I actually didn't know when I started. I was like, what's the show? I mean, you're just responsible.

You're responsible to deliver the show. So the production company hires you and you're, you know, you have to make sure you're getting the best possible version of the show that you can get. Like, I mean, you do your best. You're never going to, you know, get the best version and you're never going to get the worst version. You're going to get somewhere, but you push for the best version. And that includes managing the whole team, and that's everybody from PA's up to your co-EP, your co-executive producer, and managing upwards the network and what they won and their expectations

and the production company because they want this show to be successful. So you're managing all these people, and I believe managing every single person is important. Like even the PA, I'll spend time with PA's. And saying even the PA is even a horrible thing to say. We all make this show. So, PA's, I'll interact with, like, they're a showrunner. And this industry, you don't know, in six years that PA could be like an incredible, you know, writer of some film and is like, Ian, I have a winner for you. And I want Ian to be the showrunner of it or director of it.

Yeah, I don't approach it because of that. I don't think about that because by the time that kid makes it, I'll be dead probably. because I'm old now, but I think about just what would I, when I was a PA, I love the director who would come over and talk to me or the showrunner who didn't make any type of like difference between them. Oh yeah. I mean, with great power, you can, I love, sorry, I'm clearly power hungry, no, but with great power, it's, you have the power to make someone's day. Like, you can like say one thing and be like, and you don't have to, but you see that people. But you see that PA like on the grind it's raining outside they're running around you they think you don't notice

and then pull them aside and be like hey I really appreciate the hard work that can really just put a fire behind them to just also one toxic PA can fuck up a lot of things sure then I'll say not only the appreciation but actually like a real moment of who are you what what do you do what's your where you from like having a real conversation just not just like hey I love the way you mopped up the floor thank you so much you're really quick at coffee but to acknowledge them as a human being yeah makes them feel like oh like it's not just i'm not just some work or be like who i am matters and i used to think like my dad would always bitch about why the nicks were so bad and he would he was always blaming the coach and i'm like how much does the coach really matter like this five guys

out on the court like lebron coaches himself how much does it really matter but it's the like overall aura that's over the team that's really important and I think if if you have a positive aura it goes all the way down to the PAs and if someone want to get be like I want to be a showrunner one day what is like what are the steps that was that what they sound like that's how PA's talk I've never talked to it because I would never but but even on Summerhouse you see at the sorry to interrupt but at the very end our last day I always I always talk I bring the whole crew in everybody who works on the show and I talk about each one individually and you remember everyone's names sure but you remember

everyone I mean basically when you're at a workplace and you'll remember everyone's name it's hard because we don't hear you guys talking to each other so we don't some of like the video guys I've just never heard they don't talk right you're not interacting with a lot of of them because that's not there needs to be that wall my favorite part about that day yes true because then I'd start just like having side comments my favorite part about that day is

when it's like hey the cast can just sit down for a second and appreciate all the people who are making the show but the cast members are always so loud and like love attention that they can't help but get involved and I'm like can we just shut up for 10 minutes 10 minutes well

that's why they're on the show but they want to participate also in a good way you know and let them know I mean and I love that I love that part of it and I love doing that so everyone knows this isn't just about you or you know not you specifically but each individual there's a bigger thing we're in exactly what are what are the steps to becoming a showrunner or for you what were the steps

I say that my steps were unorthodox A lot of people, they work their way up from PA or, you know, and then they produce or then, and they get to showrunner eventually. I started as a stand-up comic, as you know, and then started writing for television, and I always thought that would be my journey, like scripted and then direct features or something. And then I got into directing promos for MTV. I would do a lot of promos with, you know, VMA promo, whatever they are. You have like a sense of humor with it. Yes, they were all comedy. Most of them, 90% were comedy-driven promos with big celebrities.

Like, oh, we have, you know, whoever, Jim Jones when he's releasing an album. We fly-ha. I love a song, Brooklyn. Yeah, he's bawling. But anyway, so I did that and I loved it. I would write and direct and then work with the editor and put together these promos. I worked with a lot of great people and would travel. I really loved it.

I was doing some commercial work also like, you know, Google commercial or whatever. And I just thought, okay, this is, I just kind of followed the job. journey. And then one day, a friend of mine, Michael Swan House, is his name. He was show running American Pickers. And he called me up and he's like, I need someone to go in the field, like make it better. Like not creatively. Also, sure, creatively if you can, but just it was not, it was a little bit rocky. Like the crew wasn't always happy and the two guys on the show didn't always get along and so he's like you're good with people and you've been directing a lot and like would you go out and do that and I was like sure okay and I went out and it went very well

I changed the process of how we would make it in the field and did you enjoy it yeah sure it's I love challenges I move a lot from show to show because like okay I've done that yeah like I've done loving hip-hop now you don't like feeling stagnant yes I won a new challenge something else that presents itself so it was a challenge and then I did I did like 30 episodes of that show and it was running really smooth and then and then I just started getting calls at the time it was like the number two show on all the cable while I was doing it and so then when you're doing that then people start calling hey would you do this but every time I was doing commercials and promos where you get paid more yeah so I was like well can you pay me more can

you pay me more good for you ask for that money always that's money yes always ask for the money for sure what's the worst they say is no and then you can also say well then I'm not doing it which is also shows that you believe your value yes well that's one of your seven deadly sins oh yeah we'll get to it can I ask you a question yes why did you quit stand up Oh, you know, the St. Quit is an interesting way to put it. I was doing stand-up, and then I started writing for Comedy Central and still doing stand-up, and then my wife got pregnant, and I love how I said that my wife got pregnant. Blame the woman.

Nothing to do with me. But, yeah. We got pregnant. Yes. And were you making money on stand-up? Yeah, yeah, I would make money, not that Hannah-Burner money, but yeah, I, you know, I would go on the road. You make a couple grand on a week on the road as a headliner or you'd be a feature act. Like, not tons.

I wasn't like. But you were making a living. Yeah, like 50 grand, 60 grand. Like, you know, and back then I'm old. I was about to say, yeah, back in the day. Back then, that was like a million dollars. No, it was. See, it sounds like you had other opportunities,

but did you miss stand-up when you started doing that, like, those projects on shows or writing jobs? Yeah, for sure. Because stand-ups get addicted to that, like, late-night high. Oh, my God, that high when you get off stage, even on a bad set, but mostly on good sets. But you're still, like, in the weeds, you know? You're still, like, in the war zone,

whether you're high or low, you still feel like you're alive. Yes. It's very, I mean, I still love it, and every once in a while, I'll do something. But, um, what I, Ian and I have a big show coming up soon. We're plotting it. My wife, uh, my wife was pregnant. We were pregnant, however, we want to say that. And, um, and so when I, I just, she needed more help and it hurts you to go out at night

and then be up in the morning, right? for Comedy Central and then going to help your wife and then going back to so something has to give and then you have kids and then you you know kids ruin everything and uh little assholes and um yeah i mean yeah it was a choice that and and don't get me wrong a lot of standups can have kids and still do you know i was burning the candle at both ends and a lot of people just need to make that decision like do you want to prioritize your marriage or do you want to prioritize your career and a lot of relationships don't work out sometimes when someone has such a like different type of career i i was thinking like when you did alaskan bush people you're in bumble fuck alaska yes

in the most beautiful positive way it's gorgeous out there um i have a lot of alaskan fans you know but you go there for what like three months more I think I was there five five months and number one you're bringing in the dough number one cable television show how does that affect your marriage um so

my wife you have to FaceTime her with bears all the time my what's the other the gay term bears and what's the other one of them? Bowls or I forget bears But bears is one of them

It's all right We're the wrong We don't know Oh, twinks Maybe I had a face time With bears and twinks All the time

No I think Yeah so by that point And in my marriage Like there was There's an understanding Like originally when my wife And I We got married very young

And we were very needy like very like we were young and and really wanted a relationship and as I got older and more mature I saw the folly of that how young were you thinking we I met her when I was 22 21 22 and we got married I was 25 yeah that's my parents they're married at 24 25 it's kind of like maybe a little generational too yeah it's somewhat general we also both grew up a very religious Jewish and that's like you get married young because he can't have premarital sex. Not that

that really happens. In theory. In theory. But yeah so we were so indoctrinated in that that that was our path. It was going to happen. And sometimes looking back I'm like if I could do it again

I wouldn't get married and I just stick to stand up and I go do but these are all I love my wife. We've been together 26 years. I love, my kids are great kids, you know. But you're able to function without, like, seeing each other for a bunch of months.

Oh, sure. It helps. It's almost like a fun little, yeah, make the heart grow fonder distance. Do you think it's because she has a, she's a specific personality type, or you guys are just, like, strong in that way? No, she hated it at first.

I mean, like, I'd be on Pickers and she'd be like, if this isn't a marriage, you're not home. what's going on like you know and we'd have these discussions and I'm like you like your outy right and you like those you like those things those nicer to your house and there's sacrifice that comes with it right so it's like there are people who are in the army and go to Iraq for two years straight that don't get to see and they might die like they could get shot you could have gotten eaten by a bear that's true well I was very close I was very close to a bear

Then you threw a PA in front of you I spent a little time with them first Hey who are you Go take care of the bear I think a bear would like this one By the time I was doing Alaska But we And don't get me wrong

Even now like doing Real Housewives of Dallas There was a day Like I get a call Like we talk every night Me and my wife And then I get a call like What is this? This is ridiculous

You know So there are still those moments. But it's great that she cares. Yeah, sure. I mean, more than me. She could be like busy with the pool boy. So do you have any just, you know, putting that in your head just in case. Yeah. So 26 years of marriage. I don't know if I've had anyone on this podcast with 26 years of marriage. Do you have any advice for making a relationship work? Um, that fucking long. I've only been with the guy for three years. Let me say this. I got bored with him after one year. Sorry, continue.

Okay, so making a relationship work is the main thing is both people wanting it to work. That's really the main thing. I don't believe in the meant-to-be idea. Like, there's one person for everyone. Yeah, I believe I could have been a good husband to a lot of women, and my wife could have been a good wife to a bunch of men. And, you know, like, you know, I do well. I'm a nice guy.

Like, sure, I have my quirks, but overall, but if you both decide you're in it together and you're going to make it work, you make it work. Now, some people are not compatible. And, yeah, and it's just lustful. And then when that ends, it's like we have nothing. How did you know it wasn't lustful in the beginning? I mean, like, when you were. Well, I was 20-something.

It was all lustful. And I had no clue. Yeah, you have no clue, and I just was like, and there are times in our relationship where I say, like, is this right? But, like, she's my best friend. We grew up together, you know what I mean? She understands you. She sees you. Yeah, and there's no, she doesn't judge me at all.

Like, I have my quirks, I do, and she's fine with it, and she's, you know, we've accepted. And there are things about her that drive me crazy, not in a good, also in the, also in. a good way but that drive me like oh how come she always does this or always does that you know and then you're like i need to book somewhere in alaska exactly and then you're like oh i miss her just think about how your parents relationship might be better if your dad would go away every couple of years for six months here or five months there you know and then but um anyway not to get my parents are really codependent like they just they love just hanging out all the time They, like, they're not that social.

Like, they just, after a long day, they eat dinner together, they watch the next game, and it's very simple, and that's just what they love to do. Do they talk a lot? They do. They're each other's best friends, but they're still, like, flirty. It's really weird and annoying. But I think, yeah, they're weird. But, yeah, they both, there's so many imperfections, and there's, but the way their imperfections

collaborate with each other is still funny. The way it intertwines. Yeah, like, my mom will just make fun. and my dad for things that other women might be like you're an idiot but she knows how to like laugh it off and it's it's true it's really about finding the imperfections i liked my one of my early viral tweets was you have to find someone whose parents fuck them up in a compatible way to how your parents fucked you up so that's what i'm looking for um i want to get a slightly deeper into you um sorry that sounded really weird we have a fun relationship um when was the last

is that a strap on what the fuck is going on this podcast welcome to hell yeah literally when was the last time that you didn't feel like yourself that i didn't feel like myself that's i don't even know what that means i don't know what that means when was the last time that you were like depressed or just you didn't feel good about yourself oh i never feel good about myself. That's crazy. I just... Do you always feel like you're not good enough?

I feel like I'm the laziest person in the world. Like, I just took a month off. You just told me you didn't take a vacation in five years. I didn't take time off from work, but... So here's the thing. There's work, and then there's my goals. I want to make movies that win Oscars. That's my goal.

I want to direct. and write films that win Oscars. In order to do that, you have to write films and you have to go out and try to raise money and get people attached and all like that. I do write, but not as much as I should. I'm not doing the things I need to achieve that goal. I'm lazy.

Now these shows like Real House, so I said, Dalit, sure, Bravo calls me, would you please do this show? Some people will be like, wow, that's amazing success. they call you. It's perspective. But it's not what I want to be doing. Like I do enjoy my job. I like it. But that to me is more of like I'm in the field, been in a day job and my ultimate goal like be Quentin Tarantino or Woody Allen without the pedophilia or or the Cohn brothers, you know. And what are my doing to help that happen? And I do some things, but I really believe I could have already made a movie if I wasn't so fucking lazy like it's all in your hand so I'm constantly sitting on the

couch watching Law & Order in my underwear stuffing my face high and going I should really be writing or doing something so I'm always sort of feel like I'm such a it's a I'm such a poser like oh like you're like oh he's so sick and he's going to do this show and that show and that but I'm not doing what I need to be doing to be getting where I want to be so I am down on myself, but I live with it, you know? Wow, it's a crazy perspective. But I feel like also, when you're really ready, you are going to, like, immerse yourself in the writing of a film.

Like, I feel like you're still doing other work things that you need to do. And then when the timing is right, like, I feel like creatively, you can't force yourself to write that thing when you're not feeling inspired. No, if you ask every writer, that's the opposite. of what they say they say write every night whether you like it or not yeah like there's no such thing as writer's block you got to go through it so i've written scripts i have scripts and things like that but you know and my agent there's one now that might be getting some traction but i've been through this many times and i feel i'm not doing enough i'm never doing enough but everybody i think is never doing

like you're not spending your whole day on your career you have other things you do and you have to but yet i just feel like I see other friends of mine directing huge movies and doing, and I'm like, oh, what am I doing? My, sorry, I just, man, I'm talking a lot. My wife's cousin came over like a couple of years ago. She came over to our house, like just in general. And she looked at me at dinner and she said, how's it feel to be so successful? And that's the first time ever.

Like, I was like, are you crazy? I'm not successful at all because I'm nowhere near the goals I set for myself. But that was the first time I was like, oh, you know what? I guess I am. I guess I really am. Look at this. I did in that. So I say it's like a car.

I'm looking out the windshield, like look how far away my goal is. But when I look in the rear view, I'm like, oh, I did a bunch of stuff. Like, okay. But that's ultimately what makes you successful because even though you're saying you're lazy, what you're trying to accomplish is so lofty. You're like, I want to be Woody Allen where most people would never even try for that. So the fact that that's your goal

that people don't even know about and you're missing it so far, yeah, you're falling on, like, winning, like, Emmy-nominated directing and, like, the top shows on Bravo and reality TV. So I think that, like, little insecurity and that nagging feeling of not feeling good enough is what ultimately will make.

make you accomplish your dreams. Sure. Which sucks. Because if you're just like content and the kind of person that really doesn't have any lofty goals, I mean, you're, you still might be way more happier than you are. Sure, right. So it depends on your level of what success is in your life and what your goals are. But yeah, it's even like with me when I quit my marketing job, a lot of my friends were judging

me. They're like, Hannah's not doing well. Like she has an unpaid internship when she's 25. But in my head, like, I was like, this is the beginning. of something big where they're like oh hannah's a confused fuck up but in my head i was very clear about like i didn't know how i was going to do it but i was like i want to be an entrepreneur and i want to get into video and i never thought i could ever be on tv but now that i'm on tv i'm like well i want a netflix special and like so that hunger and insecurity is what i think ultimately makes

people accomplish crazy things and now that's those same friends who are like you're a loser and you're like, they want coffee. Hannah is my best friend. You know Hannah from Summerhouse? She's my best friend. These people that would like be so like not good friends are now like, oh my God,

we need to catch up. And I'm like, that's the last thing I'd ever want to do is cat. And what do you want to do? Catch up just to tell people like, oh yeah, I hung out with Hannah. I'm like,

that's a waste of my time and it pisses me off. My closest friend from like high school like times, he always wanted to be in this business. But he didn't do that. he did something else that was safer and secure. And I went for it. And at first I was a struggling comic. So he's working, making money.

And I'm like making nothing and going out every night. And he's like, what a loser. I'm about to start a Netflix show next week, whatever. Congratulations. I go to L.A. I hear it's lit there. But anyway. You come back with lip injections.

It's fire. It's dope. Say dope. No, just because of all the fire. Yeah, I got it. Anyway, bad pun. I'm Carl. Anyway, so I, uh, so now I'm about to do this Netflix show and whatever.

I've been talking to Netflix and he, like, we keep in touch and he's like, I have like five great ideas for Netflix. Can you introduce me? And I'm like, no, I can't. It's insane. But it's also hard to tell people no. I have trouble telling people know. Like, I have people read out.

out to me who were like, hey, I know you know this person. They have a big podcast. Like, can I be on their podcast? And I, like, I just don't respond because I don't know how to be like, dude, I can't. Like, my relationship with them is, like, friends and, like, trust. And I just have random people that I start trying to get in with them. Like, that fucks up my relationship with them. Yeah, of course.

Imagine me asking you to be on your, oh, wait. No. But it's like, imagine me or your friend saying to you, you're on SummerHouse, get me on. Get me on SummerHouse. It's like, get you on Summer House. Like, I barely get on some. I mean, and I deal with friends who behind my back tell, like, random people I think are connected. Like, yeah, me, I'm really good friends with Hannah.

And, like, I'd be great on Summer House. And they never even tell me that they want to be on it. So, like, I've dealt with some sketchy shit. But you see who people really are. But, uh, anyway. But I also would say to this, like, if you're that person who didn't go for your dreams and you're watching someone else do it, like, there's no time. frame like even I think I've in my mom you know she grew in that generation where like you go into

corporate America or like she became a teacher and she had me and she went up the ranks and she's now like one of the top principals in Brooklyn and she's about to retire and she's like I think I want to get into jazz singing and I'm like why and she's like because I always wanted to be a jazz singer but my brother wasn't acting and I wanted to show my parents that I could get like a stable job and like I mean my grandma's now like trying to be Instagram famous. You never know what you can do later in life. Sure, but this should be a lesson to everyone listening that a lot of people put their dreams on hold for whatever their reason, like, go for it.

Or you don't want in 20 years to be regretting. I never did jazz singing or I never did. Like, go for it. There's nothing stopping you. Yeah. And I also think the one reason I didn't immediately go into like video or editing, I wanted to do sports broadcasting originally. was I was like, I don't think I can make money in it,

and I wanted to be in New York City. And then when I quit my job, I was like, I don't even know how do I make money in video? But then deep down, I was like, you figure it out. Like, you figure it out in the beginning. And then I think when you're really passionate in something, this is also, like, my thing with money is I've never put it on a pedestal.

I'm like, money comes, money goes. Like, I just want to have a studio apartment with my cat. I just want a better life for my cat. But when you think about it like that, the money comes naturally, I feel like when you're really passionate about what you're doing and when you, if you love what you do and you work a little butt off. Sure.

If you love what you do, you'll make money. Like if you really love it and you, you know, I mean, there are the odd examples of the people who just are not self-aware and maybe not as talented as they think or not it. And those are the ones that make everyone else pause and go, I don't want to be that.

I don't want to be Michael Scott or whatever. And maybe they're not in alignment with what they really should be doing. Correct. They're like lying to themselves. Yes. But overall, if you just go for it and keep going, you're going to be fine. Like that will, you'll figure it out.

Like, even me, I'm not where I want to be, but I have a career. Like, it's not like it's all or nothing. Like, do you know what I mean? A hundred percent. It's not like you're Woody Allen or you're a horrible failure to make money. I also, I've been living very like not results oriented and when I'm less results oriented you get less nervous about things or like putting things on a pedestal if you're just like okay i'm going to try to create the best content i can today instead of being like why have i not

gotten a cover spinoff you know instead you're just like what can i do today and it's hard to get in that place oh it's really hard it's hard but i think i was so miserable with tennis where every weekend was like what is my ranking so i'm trying to enjoy life where i don't have a ranking sure And I'm just, like, existing. Right. There's two pieces of advice. Oh, yes. No, please.

Two pieces of advice that I give everybody. Yes. Everything you ever wanted is outside your comfort zone. Mm-hmm. And you do the thing you're most afraid of, and the courage comes after. Yeah. Courage is the act of doing the thing you're afraid to do, not the idea of not feeling afraid.

Yes. Do you know what I mean? Courage is doing the thing when you're afraid, not not feeling afraid. I love that so much because I always say, like, don't ever take a job you're fully qualified for. Like, you'll figure it out after. That's my whole life. Yeah, well, that's what you're saying before. I was like, that's what you should do, because you will figure it out.

And, yeah, if it's something that you don't have, it means, like, whatever pattern you're doing, that is your comfort isn't working. So if you want a different result, you have to change your behavior. I once pitched a show to VH1, and they were like, yes, we want to do it. And I went home and I said to my wife, I can't make that show. I'm like, it's going to be like curb your enthusiasm. And they're like, great, let's do it. And I was like, oh boy, I'm in big trouble. But then you just go and you do what you can.

Nikki Glazer actually said something great on this podcast, which I loved because she was like, I said. I love Nikki Laser. I know you love Nicky Laser. Amazingly talented comedian, great person. And she was basically like, I have impossible. syndrome a lot of the time but my her therapist told her something that like forever in the future

we'll never have it again where they basically were like you think give people some credit like that they're smart enough to know who you are like you're not tricking everyone like give people some credit you're not that good at tricking them that

you're this like great comedian and I think that really resonated with me as then it's like believe what is happening just believe leave it. Every meeting I go into with the network because you have to meet with the network before you take the show or whatever. And they ask me about myself. I'm like, I'm always nervous. And they go, why are you so nervous? And I go, I feel like you're going to realize I'm a fraud and I suck and you're going to fire me. And they go, you wouldn't be in the door if you're a fraud. But that's my,

that was always my default. Give them more credit. You think you're that good at tricking them, that you're some incredibly talented thing. Like you're not some magician, you know. I love that advice. I think it's great. All right, cool. Time to play The Seven Deadly Sins. Seven Deadly Sins. What are you greedy about? I get greedy about shows I want.

Like if I could... You get hungry. Yeah, I don't know if it's greedy, but I'll take... Yeah, I'm greedy. I want all the good jobs. Yeah. I just want all the good jobs. And I guess that's what I'm greedy about.

I don't know if that makes sense, but... No, I see that, too. Well, it's even like a stand-up comic. It's like, you want to do all the good sets that night. You don't just want to have one. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Who are you envious of? Who are my envious of?

Besides me. Well, aside from you, I don't think of... And Carl. I mean, I think like, I mean, this all sounds stupid, but like, you know, the Cohn brothers, Quentin Tarantino, people who can just go make movies, which is also, I'm sure, a lie. Like, those guys also have to fight to make their movies, but, you know, Woody Allen, Coembrother, I just wish I could make a movie a year, maybe be up for an Oscar and just go about my business. And I think when you're, like, really ready to, you will. Yeah, maybe, or I'm just too lazy. You're not lazy.

I think you still have more work that you're doing in this stuff. And I mean, my thing is like now I decided I want to start pursuing more stand-up comedy. I'm more ready now mentally. Like I did a couple more things that helped me feel ready. Like some relationships that I had to mend or some. Like they're just life positioning that like sometimes it's timing. You're right. Like even in my career now, if I started show running at 25,

And there's no way I'd be as proficient as I am now. I wouldn't have the wisdom or knowledge. But I think you're terrific. You know that. I tell you. I think you will attain all the things that you want. Wow, thank you. And you seem fearless to me, which is.

Ian's also my psychic, so that was good, you guys. What are you gluttonous about? I mean, food. Oh, yeah. You love milkshakes. I'm just so bad. The sweets and eating well and getting high does not help. It's, uh, I vary my feelings of inadequacy and not doing those things.

As I told you, like I should write more. I should, you know what, but instead I'm just going to shovel shit into my mouth. And during, during those five minutes of finishing the whole Oreo box, it is nice. No, not then. And when you start. And you're just like, oh, one more, one more. Then at the end, you're like, what the fuck did I do? I was such a loser.

I was joking with you earlier how I, during our summer house dinners, like we're a little drunk, and it's always like pretty late at night, and I like to eat at like 6 p.m. So it's like 9 p.m. I'm hungry. And then people start fighting, and it's like I could either get into this fight or look at this beautiful piece of calamari that I can just eat. And in that moment of bliss, I can forget all the drama around. me and like so many scenes

I'm just in the background stuffing my means and I said I love that about you because everybody else on that show female is like picking at their salad and you're just shuffling shit into your face and I'm watching at the monitor and I'm loving it because it's just

I'm fully prioritizing like looking at the table and I'm like how do I get to that barada even though Lindsay has a full knife about to stab Carl above it excuse me are you going to finish that can I borrow that knife For a second, I just want to get a little piece. So many times I'm like, can't think about the conversation because I'm like, is no one touching those nachos?

But, yeah, it makes for good B-roll. When was the last time you experienced extreme wrath? I don't think I've ever seen you, like, angry. Extreme wrath. So there are two people in this industry who I think are horrible at their jobs, and I've had to work with them. uh in my experience or whatever and so the last time uh about a 14 months ago or a little bit around then um there's a a show i did for comedy central very proud of it and then i was going to show run it but i didn't see eye to eye with some people not at the network but that's a production company so

someone there really got me going but really i believe wrath is an extension of ego. Yeah. Like, and I try not to have it. I love, like I have a huge ego. I think I try to keep it under wraps and tell us. Well, everyone has an ego. I think you have an ego because if it was really huge,

you wouldn't be able to control it as well as you do. Well, like with compliments, like you'll give me compliments. Like, I fucking eat that shit up. It's so bad. It's so bad. Like, I shouldn't like whatever, but it is part of who I am. But when I, so most of the time I can keep the ego. and check but when I feel someone's not good at their job and then telling me I'm not good at my job

and giving me that's when my ego I guess it's a defensive move of like hey what the fuck I did this show and that show number one show number one show there and this and that and you've done nothing and you're going to tell me that I'm approaching this wrong and the networks loving it and you know and that's where and at your level in the industry you're dealing with a lot of egos so it makes sense that you have at least a couple people that you're like not cool with uh it's so bad but it happened to me like when i was in social media creating videos and stuff there's the politics start happening the ego start happening like i started to get some following and shit blew up in my former job and that was actually the last time i well i lost on summer house a couple times but like i lost it in a job because

i felt misunderstood of like the work that i was bringing in for the company versus other people yeah so i i understand so i had a lot of raths and then I had a meeting and it was like the red wedding of meetings and they just stabbed me to death in that meeting but I whatever

I was fine I was just like you're fine but then you spend the next year like every time you're in the shower like recreating the arguments that you could have had the words you could have said what did I do at least

I am pretty good in the moment now I used to think back oh I shouldn't say I'm angry I'm just like I don't like your face but now or Even in that meeting, I would just say, look, I don't want to work with you ever again, so don't, it's not even worth it. You know, like, I'll stick up for myself, but I had wrath because of that, and I really, I hate that.

I wish I did it. I wish in those moments, I could still be like, all right, we don't see. Did you ever get angry on Summer House this season? Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't really, I mean. You don't show it? Yeah, I wouldn't say angry. Like, I'll get, yeah, a little bit frustrated with some of my team or, like, they'll argue, and I'll be like, really? Like, come on, can we just work, you know?

You're basically the head camp counselor. Yes, yes. I'm a dad. We're the kids, the producers are, like, the camp counselors, and then you're, like, the head. Hannah, do you want to go in the pool? Yeah. When was the last time you were a sloth? Oh, every day.

I've been off a month. I'm telling you, underwear, couch, computer, raging about Trump or something, and then fucking watching One Order on Wii TV 24-7. It sounds amazing. I need a little bit of that every week or I'm off-kilter. Yeah. Like I feel just worn out if I don't have time alone. That's why I love reality TV.

Reality TV really calms my brain in a way that sometimes you don't want to watch a show that's like succession or like like getting in deep plot lines like I just want to hear people talk about like that they're not over their ex-boyfriend and and relate to it you have you have to watch the second half have you been watching Dallas or no so Dallas I started yeah tell us about Dallas you have to watch the second half yeah I mean it's just it's incredible it's really I can't believe what happened and the way things unfolded Yeah. And the thing you should know about Bravo is these stories really unfold.

Like, I don't tell them to do anything. My job is just to keep them honest, make sure that they are making decisions. So story moves forward. And instead of just saying, I don't want to deal with it. Like, making them deal. And that's why I love reality TV, because so many times in your life, you just decide I don't want to deal with it. And, you know, being someone on reality TV, you're forced to deal with a lot of, you know, issues or confrontations or questions about yourself that you would have put off if you weren't

on the show. Sure. It's intensive therapy. Most people at the end of these seasons are like, oh my God, I grew so much. I've learned so much about myself. And Bravo specifically, those shows are pretty real. Like, they're really... It's so cool to see people over seasons, too, because I have just done one season. But to see how someone's grown from like season one to season five is sometimes incredible and how their lives have changed and yeah it's it's amazing but other reality shows like pickers that's a very formatted yeah that's a real show then there are shows that are soft scripted or whatever so there's all different types but bravo really i'll give them credit they keep it at at least in my experience we keep it as real as possible 100% when was the last time

you let your pride get in the way of something Like, I really worked so hard to not let my ego really feel itself, if that makes sense. Like, it would, I'd be intolerable. Like, it's hard. Like, you meet people with big egos. It's horrible. Like, they think they're great and they're this and that. And so I, my whole day is spent.

But then it's hard when you have to sell yourself and be like, I'm fucking great. When a lot of the time you're, like, trying to, you know, just focus on your. But this is the thing. this is really funny I don't do that like when I go meet with a production company or a network I don't say I'm great

I say I don't think I'm good I like I like I said I feel like I'm a fraud in here and all and you're like the hot guy who doesn't know he's hot everyone wants it I'll take that analogy but no but I really

I really stand like and I think that That's why I get almost every job I go for. I get it. And I think because they realize, oh, he'll be easy to work with because he doesn't. He's not a monster. He's not like, oh, I know this and this. We have to do this.

I give my opinion. I think this is how I'd approach it. But what do I know? I'm a moron. And they laugh and they go, great, let's do it. Well, you're a people person. And I think from so many parts of your career, from stand up to being a leader to pitching shows, when you're a people person, things just work better.

And people person doesn't mean you have to be like a Mr. Social Butterfly. Like clearly you like to smoke weed and watch Lauren order without talking to anyone for hours. Yes. But it's like when you deal with people, be empathetic, listen and like don't be an asshole. Yeah, just be. And also collaboration. I want other people's input. I'm a moron.

I love collaboration so much. You know, and recognizing good ideas and also not taking credit for good ideas. Yes. Like whenever I'm on a network call. and someone had an idea, I'd go, oh, what if we sent them here or something? And then the network will be like, that's brilliant.

And I'll be like, oh, that was Mary's idea. That was Wesley's idea. That was the PA's idea. Like, you don't need to accept the thing, you know. And in this industry, so many people just want to look as good as possible, but that's also their own insecurities. But it kills you later. It's bad karma.

And your team is going to hate you. Yep. Like, and all, and what's funny is I get the credit anyway. Because what happens is, is the network's like, oh, wow, the PA thought of that, but it was you who recognized it was a good idea and told us on the phone. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, but he thought of it. That was a great idea. But that's what collaborating is.

Yes. Is enabling people to be, even the fact that the PA could think that they could present you. It takes a good leader. Oh, we're going full circle. final question when was the last time you lusted over someone oh boy who's your celebrity crush I don't want to get in trouble with my wife the last time when we sat down here let's see who's my celebrity crush I have a couple of people I mean when I was younger I was in love with Elizabeth shoe after a karate kid oh yeah I was

like I was head over heels for her. I wrote her a letter and everything. I think I was 14 or something. And then I don't know now. Anna Kendrick Milakunis whatever, the usual

suspects, you know. I don't know, but who do I don't know. I don't, I guess I don't get super lustful. But, yeah, Charlie Sarin. Oh, yeah, she's gorgeous. I'm very talented. Yes.

So this is the final question that I like to ask everyone. I'm burning in hell. I don't want this to end. I'm having fun. I know, I can tell. You're starting to divulge some good info. I thought I was going to cry. I know.

But I actually never, no one cries. Some people, I cry to myself sometimes. What do you ultimately do to cope with your hell? Like, what advice would you give to people who are going through hell right now? You know, so for me, right? But this is an interesting question also. But for me, I'm always, just through life experience, I know it gets better. It always gets better.

It's like cyclical. And I have time. But the older I get, the less times I feel I'm in hell. Like, I just know it works out. And that's my approach also, like on Summerhouse, I'm like, oh, this restaurant decided they don't want us coming after everyone wanted to go there and this and that. And it's like, okay, we'll figure it out. Like, we'll find another plate.

Like, it's... You have the confidence in the universe that, like, things will not go to complete shit all the time. Birds eye view. Like, just, like, there are people starving in Africa. I'm going to complain about my life, like, am I a moron? But I also realize, like, my daughter gets depressed sometimes. and even though for me it's a very easy like oh just tell yourself like look how great you have it you have all this stuff and things are good but some people struggle with that kind of hell and depression that and it could be innate it could be a chemical thing

so i feel like i'm trivializing it by going like oh just look at the bigger picture everything's really okay some people they don't feel that way but for me what helps me is always like look i got it so good i got it so good people pay me to do things i love to do i get to work with amazing people i love almost every cast i've worked with um a couple of exceptions but uh no like i i love you and and page and now you have to name everyone because you started I don't know if I remember everyone. I'm kidding. But, like, I love you guys.

Like, you know, and, like, I get paid to fucking make TV every day. I mean, like, no one has it better than me. And I also think if you're sitting there and you're like, well, I'm depressed because I'm not doing all these things I want to do. It's like, okay, so start with a list. What do you have to do to start going towards your goal if that's what is giving you, you know, some darkness or something right now? Were you ever, I don't know, have you ever had, like, an addictive person now?

Like, are you addicted to- I love, I love dating addicts. I've dated addicts since I was 18. Right, but you don't have an addiction problem of any way. I've, like, never smoked a cigarette in my life. I have that weird thing where I'm, like, afraid, like, if I got one tattoo, I'd get a sleeve. But, like, instead, I've done nothing. Like, I'm very good. I don't have, yeah, drinking.

I'm not really addictive. eating like I'm can be emotional eater but I'm not addictive I don't have an addictive personality but I have can have an obsessive personality so I used to like gambling yeah and there's that the idea of like okay I'm never going to gamble again like you know you tell yourself it's a hundred or nothing the deep in your heart you're like it's gonna be fucking good I do I'll never keep to that like that's ridiculous and and I I I'm not a gambling addict anymore like I'll go play poker I love poker, I play, I'll go to Vegas and play, but I won't do it to excess anymore, but I forget why we were talking about this, but the idea of starting with a list, you're like, start

with your list and all, and I always go, yeah, yeah, but then I know I have to do the work, which would be writing or going outside and doing getting off the couch instead of watching Law and Order. So I'm like, I don't even want to make the list because then I have to go do it. Like, that's how lazy I am. But what I love about lists instead of being like, okay, now start working to it, is lists. Like, the first list could, on my list, I'll be like, email so-and-so this question. Like, start with the smallest thing and then you get a little positive feedback.

And then, like, you, that's why sometimes lists. And then you even cross off that little thing. You feel a little accomplished. So that's how I, I think lists are, like, amazing. I love a list. I have a bazillion lists on my phone. I know you're right. I know you're right.

But it's like, once I start making the list, now I have to go do that. that shit and it's like i'm saying if that's sloth baby sloth i love they're adorable slots are adorable um so i want to thank you so much for coming on this has been such a pleasure for me and i'm honored for you to even want to come on my podcast oh whatever i forced you just so everyone knows i i asked her a million times when am i coming on that's my ego i thought you were but i thought you were joking in the beginning i really did no No, no, in the beginning, I thought, well, how's she going to get anyone? I got to help her.

And then now, I was like, wait, the train left without me. We'll get a 50 cent later on. He just doesn't know it yet. But what shows are currently out that you've worked on? People should definitely watch Dallas. Well, Dallas now is heating up. It gets really good. And they go on a great trip to Thailand and a lot of craziness.

And I don't even watch these types of shows, but it's really good. Yeah. let's see and March 1st I think it's who I'm maybe I'm not supposed to say but I have another Bravo show

that's called Family Karma coming out and in January I have another Bravo show coming out and then I'm starting on this Netflix show I don't I guess

you're such a lazy piece of shit anyway do you want people to follow you on Instagram sure it's on private you're an influencer Ian likes to make fun of all of us. It'll be like, swipe up.

It's influencing people not to use Instagram anymore. Like, ugh, look at this. I mean, I put some cool pictures. I have a picture of me and you on there. Yes. A picture of me in 50. Yes. What's your handle?

It's the worst. Oh, my God. So just caveat here. I couldn't find anything by the time I made an Instagram with my name. So I always have this default, I-A-N-S-G-R-8, the number eight. So Ian's great. It's so not how I am as a person, so I hate that.

Well, it's ironic. I think it's funny because it's ironic. So whatever, I-A-N-S-G-R-8. Your Instagram bio underneath should be like, just kidding. I don't think I'm great, period, or something like that. Oh, maybe I should do that if I ever figure out how to. I'll be your social media consultant. We're going to have to show me how to make that happen.

I don't even know how I write on. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Also, guys, I just started a Patreon. If you want to see some solo episodes, some bonus episodes, I spill some dirt. It's more personal to me that I don't talk about on this podcast. I don't love you guys, but I love some of you more, especially if you pay five bucks. It's less than a Starbucks. It's basically the hot chocolate that Ian made me get.

I judged him for getting hot chocolate, but whatever. He's a little weirdo. Um, and I love hot chocolate, so I can't judge it. Um, and yeah, I'll talk to you guys later in hell. What, what is that? Patriot? Patreon is this cool thing where people pay five bucks a month and they get like a bunch of bonus content. Like, is it, like, it's audio? Is it video? I could do video. I could do audio. I might have like some blooper reels. I'll have solo episodes. When Summerhouse comes out, if it comes out, I will get, um, I'll like be able to say like my opinions of what's going on. And like, it's just nice. to have a paywall sometimes because sometimes I don't want some stuff being so easily

sent around. What's your favorite thing that's now like that? If I paid five bucks, what is something you'd be like you know what you love? This particular thing. So I just started last week and I'm going to do my first episode but I'm going to talk about, I don't want to get in trouble

but I want to talk about, I never really talk about my firing like when I got fired and everyone wants to know about it. So I'm going to give like I'm going to give some dirt on it because I feel like if people spend each week hearing me talk and I don't know why they do but they do

so it's like I want to have them understand me more and I don't want it to be on this public episode where people are like we don't care about your stuff interview your person so for people who do want to hear about my stuff I have a place for them also I love giving me advice and stuff very unprofessional advice and people ask me questions I could talk about my relationships

too like where I am with stuff and dating that I don't feel like it's a perfect space for burning in hell in the public but it's like Well with burning in hell by the time I heard your fourth episode I was like she's got a podcast here Thank you

Thank you I'm making funny It doesn't say joke Anyway I'll talk to you guys later in hell Goodbye Bye Thank you.