Berner Phone - John Kim: The Angry Therapist & Attachment Styles

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

I've never met a therapist quite like John, and not to brag but I've met a bunch. He is extremely open about his personal struggles and has learned a lot from his own mistakes in life. From anger to divorce to chasing the wrong dreams, John has insight on finding your person and your purpose. What an ep!!!--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I would be spinning on my head on cardboard when my dad would be coming. This is in the 80s. You were just an idea. And my dad would be like, this is not why we came to America. Welcome to Burning Hell. What is up, guys? This is Hannah Burner. And we're in hell, but we're in a special hell.

today. We are in therapy hell with the angry therapist, John Kim. Welcome. How are you, John? How are you feeling? What's going on? You know, I'm going to be honest with you. I'm feeling very great today. I'm feeling like the frozen cursor on your computer screen when it just, I don't, I don't, I was supposed to work out. I didn't go, didn't do much content. I'm just sitting around the house, eating a lot of chips. I respect that. I feel like I've, been great for a while and I just started to force myself to like work out a little and to like make a little more content. But I appreciate your honesty. And just to open this up, I want to know what do you angry about? So I used to be angry in my 20s, my 30s. It came from being unhappy,

you know, I was, I grew up in L.A. and I was a screenwriter before I became. a therapist and I was married the marriage was falling apart I was just chasing shiny things I put pause on my life until I got you know at that time my definition of happy was like a three-picture deal yep the you know porous rangerover combo and the horseshoe shape driveway the house in the hills all that stuff and because that never happened I was just angry and I and I I didn't live I just kind of existed. So spent a lot of my time in coffee shops, just punching keys and thinking of act breaks, waiting for something, you know, amazing to happen. And the amazing thing that did happen, it wasn't amazing at the time. It didn't feel like it was amazing, but it was my

divorce. And that sent me into therapy school, doing my own work, writing self-help books, you know, all the stuff I'm doing today. Well, we've only been two minutes in. And you've already been so fucking open and hit on so many important things already. So I'm very excited. I've also told you my life story in two minutes. So thank you for having me. It was wonderful. Yep. We hope to see you next time. I actually have your books pulled up. It's I used to be a miserable fuck and every man's guide to meaningful life and single on purpose find yourself first. It sounds like you've fucked up a lot. Yeah, I think I did.

In the general terms of like you've experienced, like you're practicing what you're preaching, if you know what I mean? Yeah. In the Tumblr days, I started a blog called The Angry Therapist. I just thought it was funny that a therapist was angry. And I didn't think anyone would read it. It was my own journal. And it was very therapeutic for me because I didn't have much of a life.

And so I remember just blogging and being creative. And yeah, that's the, that was the, that's what started all was that, that whole blog. It's funny you mentioned being Korean because my first ever job was hostess at a Korean restaurant in Brooklyn. Oh my God. I was like, I fucked with Bibin'Babs. Like I was eating. And it was like a nice Korean barbecue. And there were a lot of nice, like, Korean families in our neighborhood.

But they definitely were like very hard. working and incredible cuisine. Not to my stereotype, but the food was fucking good. Yeah, Korean barbecue. And also very emotional, right? Passionate, I would say. Passionate, up and down. Similar to Italians.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Very vocal, very coming in hot, that kind of stuff. I want to know, what did your parents want for you? Like, did they have high standards for you or expectations for you? they came to America because the education is free here and I think they just threw books at me they wanted me to get straight A's it's that whole quintessential Asian American thing and I got into breakdancing and I remember I would be spinning on my head on cardboard when my dad would be coming this is in the 80s you were just an idea and my dad would be like this is not why we came to America

you can do this in Korea they have cardboard well it wasn't cool yeah there was no such thing as what is it BTS and all of that stuff back in it right but yeah

and I remember that I paint that story because I've always been the black sheep I've always been you know I'm not the Asian kid that went to AP classes

and you know became a lawyer or any of that I was kind of the fuck up the C student went to Cal State Northridge studied film You know, all of that stuff.

You're creative, it sounds. Maybe, yeah. I mean, I write self-help books and stuff. So I definitely, yeah, I definitely love creativity. I definitely am more right-brained and love. I also want to know how much do you yourself deal with depression or anxiety or, you know, mental health battles? Sure. I think part of me being great out today is, I wouldn't say it's like, it's not,

depression where I can't get off the couch but yeah a depressed mood anxiety all the time I don't have panic attacks but I have anxiety constantly you know I'm an aries I'm I'm always I'm very impatient I'm always running around you know I need to breathe I forget to breathe so yeah I think depression anxiety especially with the the pandemic and everything that's happened this year so many people are struggling with those two things yeah being depressed Right, not seeing what's going to happen, the uncertainty, the shaking of the life edge of sketch, like, what does work look like, what does, especially if you're single during this time, you're like, how do I date? How do I do that? And then the anxiety that comes from all of that, you know. I feel like you hit on relationship stuff. I was looking at your TikTok and the ones that were going viral were like definitely relationship questions that you were hitting hard. Like people will literally ask you like, what's the most important part of relationship? Should relationship? be easy and it's very interesting coming from your perspective of someone who's like did the whole

marriage thing does the whole dating thing and you explain that you're an anxious attachment style yeah can you explain what that means there's there's many but i'll just to clarify there's uh two main ones it's ancient attachment or avoidant right and so the and then secure is kind of where we all want to be secure attached attachment styles come from upbringing our early days of attaching to mom, dad, parents, and from their outward into society. So you could blame your parents is what you're saying. Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. I always blame, yeah, send up the voicemail, blame the parents.

My anxious attachment style looks like if you don't call me, text me, tell me I'm sexy. I think something's wrong. I think, you know, the relationship's over. I'm holding onto your leg instead of holding your hand, you know, that kind of thing. Now, I've come a long way. I'm 48, so I'm definitely not as anxious. But yeah, that's what I've struggled with in the past relationships. The codependency, the meshment, the losing yourself and someone else.

And I used to think that that was romantic. Like, I used to think being a hopeless romantic, you know, if we're going to do this, we're going to go down together or go up together. And I didn't know that you're supposed to give someone your hand and not your life, right? And I think the way that we've been programmed with society and Disney movies and the one and all that, it's like when you find your one. And I think you're engaged, aren't you? Yes, I just got engaged. Yeah.

I met a guy, thank you. I met a guy during the pandemic. We got engaged. So I'm actually fascinated by this stuff right now because I'm apparently, I'm going to get married in a year. I'm making some big-ass decisions. Yeah. But I, like, I want to break this shit down because you just made some really important points. I have like five minutes

I'd say 10 minutes in my stand-up comedy shitting on Disney movies just how they trained you to be attracted to like the worst douchebag guys like the narcissistic prince is like the what the guy

you're supposed to get when it's like no be with the nice funny cute one who cares about you right well and also that that guy's supposed to save you you know I mean the layers

of fucked upness but what you said is so right there aren't necessarily like books of like how to fall in love or when you know it's right. It's all based on gut feelings, which my gut feelings and my anxiety feelings can be very hard to differentiate.

Yeah, distorted. Yes. And then you have your parents' stories, you have your friend's stories. Most of life is your girlfriend being like, what do you think? He thinks about me. And you're like, I don't know, it doesn't sound great.

Right. But you had a lot of fascinating videos talking about like what should relationships be. And you were talking about how people think relationship should be easy. And you kind of have a different perspective on that. Yeah. They're not. And you know this. They're not easy. And I don't know what attachment style you are, but when we get into relationships, you're not only, I mean, after the honeymoon, right? Because the first two weeks to a month is easy, meaning there's a lot of dopamine. When you're discovering

each other's stories and bodies it's all exciting and and and and you know it's a literal drug yeah you're you're high and um that's exciting and fun of course but when that settles and you start seeing the dirty socks on the floors and and all of you know whatever a whole wall around the person i think that's when it gets hard because two people um they're not just bringing themselves they're bringing their stories they're bringing their dysfunction their trauma there and so that's when shit comes up, you know, and then you have to work through all that. And we never learn. Like in high school, you know, with geometry, fucking long division, we learn things we never use. And then we get into relationships and we're just like, oh, yeah, this feels amazing.

But that feeling may be dysfunction. It may not be healthy. Especially if you're comfortable with this dysfunction from your upbringing, maybe. Yeah. If that's the norm, absolutely. And that's what I find many people mistake that lightning in the bottle for chemistry or whatever and it's actually dysfunction it's what smells familiar it's what you're used to that pattern just repeating yeah and then you get into a relationship you're like oh i can't do this and then you find someone else and then you go with that quote unquote lightning again and the only thing that changes are faces but it's a same shit same you know same pattern so breaking patterns is a huge huge thing um to start to evolve and grow and you know

i have a new experience i'm like okay now i need help i in my relationship well I grew up very sports oriented where my dad was always like don't let men distract you so I guess that was building already like kind of an avoidant thing of like men will mess with your head or men will confuse you or men will hurt you you have to focus because god forbid you lose your tennis because of a guy my dad will kill me which you know we can unpack another time but wait wait how how were you when when you were getting those messages and you were playing tennis and your dad was like young like 11 12 right yeah Yeah. So at that age, I mean, you're just, you're just powder snow. And if that's, you know what I'm saying? If that's your first imprint, of course that's going to make you at least cautious or avoidant or, you know, the underneath the subconscious, your dad's saying, men are distractions, you know, whatever it is, whatever message. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So then I did this thing of relationships where I'd hear a lot of, I had a lot of guy friends and they're always like, oh, girls are so annoying. Girls are crazy. Girls are so annoying. So in my head, I'm like, I'm not going to be that annoying.

crazy girl. So in relationships I would put on this like coolest, easiest, easiest going, great performance for like six months. And I would rarely fight with any of my boyfriends because I would just kind of deal with whatever their shit was going on. And then eventually I'd get sick of it. And for one day, wake up and be like, I'm done with this. And they'd be like, why? And I'd be like, I never addressed it. I never talked about it. But I guess I'm. I knew when things would be wrong, but I would never fight for it. I'd never even give them the chance to see what I'm really like. It was more like, I mean, and maybe it's a different way of finding out.

They're not right for you, but I never would even get into it with people. Like I was too scared to even get into it, the confrontation. Yeah, and you just said something scared. It's scary to show ourselves. It's scary to actually be vulnerable and, you know, like show. it's easier to get naked like that's physically it's scary to uh show someone who we truly are what we're going through what scares us what's difficult for us you know all of that stuff so yeah and i'm a sarcastic bitch so it's very easy for me to just use humor to like yeah yeah absolutely

we're flirting we're flirting who knows right right and you put on this mask right and i most so so that means that in your relationships you did a lot of um um um doing life around the person not with so yeah i i talk about doing life with instead of at or around and so if you're hiding and you're masking with humor and you're being avoidant that's doing life around someone um so they they never really got to see hannah like truly who you are no and then it's funny because i would or i'd be attracted to guys who i knew they were very unavailable because i knew that it would never and then towards the end of that was when I met my fiance which he's funny because he's 45 and I'm 30 and you say like you with someone you you

meet you have all their history with it too so it's like I wonder if I'd met this guy when he was younger in life if his history would have mesh with my history like I feel like I met him at this time in his life where he finally was ready to like be open and it was him that was like you're the kind of person I want to be with that made me feel like wait can I get out of my cave well he may be the catalyst

that pulls you finally out of you know puts the walls down like your drawbridge on your castle comes down because he's able to do that because you trust him or the relationship no games no games but I was talking to my friend earlier today how we need to fucking normalize

the post romay the post like dopamine puppy dog love stage because i feel like so many people get to it and you have less sex or you get into some fights and you're like oh it's over it's time right right right also you know swipe culture has created um a lot of impatient uh instant gratification and so it's we we have that thing um now that we've become baseball cards it's like oh uh there's a little discomfort well i've got eight other people. They're DMing me. I've got choices. And it's like, okay, you do, but those people aren't perfect either. And you're going to have to do the work. So like every relationship is built. Every relationship is hard. And if you can't swallow that, you're just going to be exhausted.

Well, you guys need to follow. You need to follow the angry therapist on Instagram on TikTok because I did a deep dive and it's all in my notes. But you were talking about the most important part of a relationship, which is obviously a very general clickbait type thing. But the first thing you started talking about was the end of you, like how they make you feel. And it makes so much sense in terms of like, how the fuck are you going to make a relationship work when you don't even like you? Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about, are you talking about your relationship with yourself?

Yeah. And it sounds like something you've discovered in terms of it didn't sound like you were comfortable with yourself in your 20s. I didn't know. I didn't know myself. I was just programmed by Los Angeles. Which is dangerous, dangerous, right? And I was just chasing the shine, you know? I thought, okay, if I get the hot girl and the house on the hills and the cars and the deals,

oh, then that's happy. I'm going to swim there as hard as fast as I can. I had no sense of self. So after my divorce, I went to a long stretch, like four or five years of being single on purpose, and it was lonely. And it was, you know, I was, you know, I went. through all the feelings and all that, but I, but I went in like, I bought a motorcycle. That one would be, I bet six now.

And I started doing things for me, getting some tattoos. I started blogging. I started, you know, I started building a relationship with myself, you know, so I spent a lot of time by myself sitting at diners and coffee shops and just getting comfortable with me. I have clients who can't even go to the movies by themselves. And I'm like, why? And they're like, well, it's just weird. I was like, well, what are you bringing to the table?

if you're bringing someone who is dependent on someone else, you know. People can feel that energy, I feel like. They can feel when you're not comfortable in your own skin. Yeah. You got to bring a life to the table. So you have to bring your own life, friends, passions, hobbies. So you have two people that are coming together instead of your whole life hangs on this one person. They're the sun you revolve around.

Okay. great, that sounds romantic, it feels romantic, but that's very lopsided in the relationship, you know, and then you're going to be scared if anything goes wrong or all the, you know, and so then you're not really being your authentic self, you're exchanging, you know, your truth for this other thing. And so, yeah. Sorry, I'm using you for my own experiences, but I just have to say the universe is fucked up because I've always been very career driven and career focus. I went from sports to now like entertainment. And my fiancee is like, you where he's done a lot of work where like he loves sitting alone at coffee shops the little things

bring him joy he's had like money fame moments he doesn't care about that anymore but i had like met him at the height of like my entertainment career that i'd been working on where like i was buzzing i was hot i was feeling myself and then a couple months into our relationship i had some horrible career shit happen like lost some gigs like my reputation was getting like bad things happening and I felt empty and I remember him being like yeah because you can't have your happiness just surrounding your career and I'm like but it made me so happy right and I had to literally tell myself he doesn't just love you because you're on TV oh yeah he doesn't just even though my whole life people always gave me more attention when I'd win or love me more like so we're raised on

that but I had to literally figure out like A this dude is going to love me even if I lose all my jobs and B am I going to still love myself when I if my career has its lows yeah and listen I'm sorry you went through that I know entertainment is feast or feminine and all that but you know it's a it's a great um it's a great die marker to see if this person's real if this person will be around if this person is with you because you're famous or because of you you know um so yeah that must have been tough but also if you were playing sports at an early age and the pressures of winning and losing at 10 you're you're wired a certain way so you know um fuck hollywood and entertainment i had to face like my biggest fear which is like not like i thought

he definitely liked me because i was partially because i was successful and i was really proud of and I wore it like a badge. And then the universe was like, let's, let's level up. Let's take that away from you and see what happens. Exactly, exactly. Now, you mentioned you're on Ares. Are you into astrology? Are you spiritual?

Are you like where? Give me the sauce. What's going on? I believe, I have my birth chart on my arm. Oh, fuck yeah. I believe in the stars. And, you know, as I turn the corner and swim toward 50, Yeah, spirituality is very important to me

It's something I'm exploring But I don't have like a religion I don't have, I'm open, you know, I'm open But I do believe in things greater than ourselves, of course And you also were talking about Your early 20s and mistakes you made And we have a lot of listeners in their 20s So do you have any kind of insight

Of the top of your head Of shit you want people to know about their 20s? Yeah, number one And this is not only in 20s, I think this is the difference between I was a child. So from a child to crossing that great divide to being a man, I was a walking reaction. So instead of reacting, if you have the ability to respond, that one thing changes everything. So in my 20s, I was angry. I was throwing chairs.

Everything was a reaction, knee jerk. The ability, because I think it takes practice, to actually put a speed bump there. and take a minute and to look inward, where is this coming from? Think about what you're going to say, you know, all of that. And then it ripples into relationships. You know, in my early relationships, I would just steamroll. I would be argumentative. I'd be very defensive.

And it flips the magnet, you know. Like, you can't, it's not soil. So, yeah, and I think your 20s, they're all about exploring. But if you can start to practice responding instead of reacting, I think, It's a huge game changer. That's awesome. And also, I always joke that in relationships, it's not about not fighting. It's about, like, being good at fighting with the person, like, having good fighting chemistry.

So how do you know if the relationship is, like, is, because you say relationships shouldn't necessarily be easy, but how do you know if it's too hard? Like, how do you know the difference? Yeah, you just said something really good. It's not about how many times you fight. It's about how you fight. Yeah. So you should be able to choke out. your partner. No, I'm kidding. You know what, Hannah, let me let me let you do the comedy because

that's not my thing. Most people fight in a way that's not healthy. We have people that are not creating a safe space. You're not empathetic, a lot of finger pointing, a lot of that kind of stuff. You can fight every day as long as you're fighting fair. You're like, have fun with it. Yeah, get naked. No, you could fight in a way. where there's rules right where you're trying to one of the things that I really love is this one sentence is try to understand people are trying to be understood so if two people are trying to understand before trying to be understood they're going to be less reactive it's they're going to be pulling more from their heart than defense they're going to take ownership and so that kind of

fighting actually produces relationship glue that kind of fighting gets people closer together after the fight but if you're fighting in a destructive way where you're assassinating character or you're saying whatever I don't even know I'm with you you're this or that eventually it's not going to be sustainable eventually someone's going to tap out you know yeah I think in past relationships I've known that some of the people I would not I didn't think they'd be good at fighting as in like I feel like they'd I've seen them snap at other people so I would just avoid it I would just be like I can't fight with this person because the second I do I wouldn't I'd have to leave but I wanted to make it work so I would just like bend over backwards and

let them like do whatever and it's like you can't be afraid of fighting because then you can't get healthy boundaries I feel like yeah and also you're probably every time you do that you're going to start collecting your resentment coins you know you're going to be angry inside and then that piggy bank it's just not going to be able to hold the coins anymore then you're just like I'm done and And the person's like, what are you talking about? And you're like, well, I've been done. It's just been accumulating. You know, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts.

It weighed on you. Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year? I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day. Obviously, the goal is a championship. That's, there's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship. I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams.

The WMBA playoffs are here. and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else. It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have. For all the biggest stories in women's basketball plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars. So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted, but we also know,

you know, that's just one stop along the way and we're hoping to, you know, make a run. So listen to, in case you missed you. it with Christina Williams and IHart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year? I wouldn't say anything is a failure,

especially because we all grow every day. Obviously, the goal is a championship. There's no doubt in that, and that's the goal. We want to win a championship. I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams. The WNPA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else. It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have.

For all the biggest stories in women's basketball plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars. So to be here, I think it's one that we definitely don't take for granted. But we also know, you know, that's just one stop along the way and we're hoping to, you know, make it run. So listen to, in case you missed it with Christina Williams and IHart Women Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And also, my brother actually got married this past weekend

and I was actually listening to the vows for maybe the first time. And there was something about like, they were just emphasizing like there's going to be lows. Like when you get in relationships, it's not necessarily that even the relationship has a low, but like personally, You are going to go through lows and, like, finding a way to be there for your partner in the highs and lows that is natural with life, which can be difficult if it's not, like, a healthy base of the relationship, I feel like. Yeah, and I think also society paints marriage as, you know, once you're married, you've reached the island.

It's all downhill, it's a good thing, and it's not. I mean, it's the, I always say the picket fence has splinters, you know, it's hard. Marriage is hard. Like, I think marriage is harder than when you're dating because when you're dating, because when you're dating, there's less at stake, you know, there isn't this big promise. Marriage will force you to lick at yourself for sure. And dating, yeah, you can leave. There isn't that, that heavy pressure.

I also feel like, is there anything else about relationships that you think? think people don't know about enough and that society has like glamorized that just isn't true. Oh, besides the fact that they're hard. There's a lot of things that I disagree with. Like the one, you know, I think we were kind of programmed to like find the one. And it's like purpose where we don't just have one purpose. I think we have many, you know. And the one is the one that is an.

front of you that's the one so in your case your fiancee is the one you know if you start thinking about the one or the one that got away like that kind of stuff it pulls you out of the present you know now you're in your head and you're in the past and you're also a lot of like what is you know and so um the one and the one that got away all of that stuff i think it can be a cop out to not doing the work do you believe taking a break in a relationship works yes but only if it's not like, okay, let's put this on pause. I'm going to go fuck other people. But it's, okay, let's have a goal.

So let's put this on pause. What are you going to do? What am I going to do? When are we coming back? Like, there has to be rules, right? Can I text you? Can we, you know, I think a pause can definitely be helpful. Most people, they take pauses and they just like go and try to hook up with other people.

And that's obviously the, probably the worst thing you can do. Yeah. And then the resentments will just continue to go. Yeah. And there's just, there's more problems, you know? Yeah. I've like so many relationships questions, which are just so funny. But I also want to understand. It's okay because you're going to get into voice after this, which is what my goal is. Yeah. I will, no, this, I'll Venmo you 100%. I do. I was thinking about growing up in L.A. and I grew up in New York and everything's about, you know, grinding and succeeding and all that stuff. How did you finally get out? Like, where was the transition of?

of you being like I don't need that stuff versus also you like building your own brand now and find and in a culture that's about likes and follows like now that you're building a brand staying kind of I don't know even keel and not caring too much about all that stuff um when you see all that stuff you're talking about the external yeah because now that like you're actually have this hot brand

and you're posting videos how do you not find yourself in that same position of like, okay, well, I need to make the most money and then I need to get the most followers and the most views and all that stuff. Yeah, well, first of all, I don't know if my brand is hot. I like it. I, thank you. I struggle with it. It's still a thing, you know, I still want more. And like, I remember thinking to myself when I started this and social media was, was like a thing. I was like, oh, if I could just get like 30,000 followers, that would be amazing, you know? And then when you get there, you're like, okay, now I want 200. And then when you get that, 200, you're like, okay, I want that one meal. It's, it's, it's, it's just a way that humans are,

you know, we rarely, and I think this is why practicing gratitude so important, but we rarely compare ourselves with people who have less. We're always comparing ourselves to people who have more, who are prettier, who are, you know, whatever, more successful. And so I fall into that trap all the time, you know, once I started getting book deals, then I wanted like other media stuff. Now, you know, then I want TV stuff. And then once I, you know, so it's like, it's like, it's something I currently still struggle with it doesn't help that I live in Los Angeles you know but it's it's always kind of there but I definitely am stronger at smelling the what is it smelling the flowers and being present and really being grateful for what I have instead of chasing something that is

you know a mirage now there I really like all that stuff there are a lot of people out here especially in TikTok teaching about wellness and teaching about like morning routines and like kind of make glamorizing the wellness process is there anything that you would like to clear up about the wellness process or about healing that you think has like I don't know is misunderstood right now especially for like millennial women yeah I think because wellness has become commercialized uh which is actually a good thing like you know there's less stigma with seeing a therapist um you know you get judged less and all that um but I think people think wellness means reading some self-help books or, you know, quote-unquote, doing the work

means, you know, taking some video courses. The work requires an inner journey, usually with a therapist. You know, you can't process by yourself. So I think that the biggest misconception about self-love or self-betterment is that, you know, you could just listen to a podcast or, I mean, these things are helpful. I mean, you know, I send out texts. I do everything I can to help people, but like the actual inner journey and to process and to all that shit's hard and that takes therapy, that takes couples counseling. That takes, you know, hard conversations.

It's not because people are just throwing around fancy memes that that are cute and that actually, you know, that are okay, it's a great reminder. Yeah. But like that's not doing the work. It's not like a one size fits all. Like if you can eat the right food. and you get the right crystal, everyone will have the same level of happiness. It's so much more complex than that.

Okay, you're doing amazing, John. I'm going to, whenever you, whenever you want me to insert this, I want to read something to you. That's just like 60 seconds that I wrote a while ago because you were talking about love and marriage and you want to insert that now. Oh, shit. All right. No pressure. It was going to be my thing in my back pocket that I later, but okay, let's go right now.

All right. Let's front load this. Because we're going to finish with a game, but I want to hear this message. Okay, so we'll do this and then then we'll do the game. Okay, dear love, this, by the way, if I get married again, this is probably what I'll read. Oh, shit. Exchanging enveloped, yeah. All right.

Dear love, we will both understand that there will be days when we can't stand each other. There will be days when you will want to punch me in the face and I will want to take the long way home. We will disagree on things like movies and books and politics and what to buy at the grocery store. I will forget things, misplaced things, you will run late. Our friends will have opinions of us. We will fight, maybe a lot. You will shut down. I will wonder.

But at the end of the day, we will both come back to each other, and your head will always fall back on my chest. And no matter how many times we fight, we will always fight fair. That will be a non-negotiable, and we will be together knowing that we are choosing to be together, not because of logic. or loneliness or a ticking clock, not because we look good on paper, take cute photos, or think we'll make cute babies, not because we've already committed to this, not because we don't want to be alone, but because we believe in us and make a choice every day to be in this and love each other the best way we know how. Our relationship will not be built on fear, as many are, but instead courage and transparency. And like any relationship, ours will also be hard. And like any

relationship, there is no guarantee. We will not compare this to what was. Any residue we have from our past relationships we will work on individually. It is our own responsibility and what being in something healthy looks like. We will sharpen each other and I will make you feel beautiful and you will make me feel invincible and vice versa. The only thing we can promise is to be honest and love as hard as we can. We both know there is risk. We both know we can get hurt. But we are willing to put that on the line to experience the higher notes of something meaningful we will take responsibility for our own shit but also leave room for magic and settle for nothing less wow wow i mean that was therapy in itself but and everyone should take notes at the wedding if that is what happens but that like

took you on like a whole full journey of just like a lot of little notes of like importance and I love that you also went right into the negative. Like, yeah, like, we're going to fight. We're going to. Because it's true. And I think that we don't look at that. And I think it's, you know, nothing can be built without truth. And that is truth.

You are going to fight. And there's going to be disconnection. There's going to be drift and all of that, you know. So starting there is where I think people meet instead of pretending that something is going to be, you know, fluffy clouds and happily ever after. Yeah, and I do think there's an importance of, like, you being comfortable with yourself and you knowing what you're bringing to the table and knowing what you're signing up for, yeah, it's not a fairy tale, knowing that it's a journey of imperfection, which is part of everything.

You know, you know what's funny is when I first got married until I was 29, I read something like this and it was so different because that was all about like, oh, you're the one. and it was very like lovey-dovey and all of that. When I look into your eyes, there's everything that else disappears. Yeah, yeah. It was all that was crying and, you know, and you know what? It was what it was for that point in my life. And now this is my truth.

You could see the character arc. You could see like, I've gone somewhere and come back, you know. You even mentioned, like, what people may say about us. And, like, those are all things that people don't even think about in a relationship that can affect you in so many different ways. Well, thank you for letting me. you read that. I fucking love that. Yeah. Let's do the game.

Hell yeah. And a perfect segue, now that we're just feeling in touch with our feelings, it's time to play The Seven Deadly Sins. What are you greedy about? Oh, God. Grady about my time.

I'm actually an introvert, so I'm really greedy. the guy at the party that will slip out the back or I'll invite people over and then I'll be in the bedroom reading a book. You know, I'll slip out and I'll be doing something and be like, what are you doing? This is your party. It's like, yeah, my social battery is up. Sorry, bro. Yeah, I have a very short social battery life, I guess. I'm actually very similar, but I thought it was me being like lazy or like a bad friend and then I realized like, oh no, I just, this is how my battery works. Unless it's one on one. When it's one on one, it's long. Yeah, I'm terrible in groups and one of groups. I'll be

the one in a party where I find like one other person who I can laugh with and I'll just stick with them like as long as I can. Right, right. Who were you envious of? Oh man, I'm envious of anyone who hits success with very little effort. And this shit happens in Los Angeles all the time, you know, and you know, of course there are, you know, thousands of hundreds of thousands of people that don't quote unquote make it but people that just like get come here two weeks three weeks in they're already like whatever their vision of success looks like yeah that makes me feel because I always felt like the kid that got held back you know the late bloomer I sold my first book when I was like 40 something I did my first squat at 35 and so people that people like 21

already have like whatever it is record deals or they're built their employer I'm just like oh my Gosh, it's crazy. I once heard a quote that it's like life is like popcorn, even though it's the same temperature, we're going to pop at different times. And as someone, especially like with sports and entertainment, sometimes when people pop too early, like then it's like anything after that.

They don't feel like is good enough. And like there's always like pros and cons to the like popping, if that makes sense. I'm the corn kernel that like falls out of the machine. and is in the corner and then like I mean they always say people who become famous later in life are so much better because they have like such a better perspective on shit or people who become rich later in life so I'm trying to make you feel better yes I agree with that I in my 20s again because I was a walking reaction and angry I was not prepared for any success it would have destroyed

me I would have been I would have been the you know the douchebag in the Ferrari with the big ego and arrogant yeah and the universe was like not for you right now. Yeah. Let's wait to your 70 and then maybe we'll give you a Ferrari. What are you gluttonous about? So like what do you overindulgent? Oh man. This is going to sound weird because I'm sure most people say food. I have addiction in my blood and I think one of my addictions is my daily sweat working out. I could I could go to the gym and work out for two, three hours and waste my complete day. So yeah, it would be movement, some kind of, um, um, like I got into CrossFit for a long time. So something that, uh, has a hero's journey. So any kind of workout where

you're just like suffering I'm, I'm addicted to. Wow. I mean, I guess it's one of the healthier things to be addicted to, but it's funny how you could get addicted to anything if you really focused on it enough. But you said you did squats later in life. Did you not work out in the beginning? I was one of those guys that just went. in to do like biceps and um and you know like the like you skip the leg day every day I there was no leg day so I looked like a pigeon like I had these tiny skinny legs and then um and then when I was 35 I found functional fitness and and it's all about like legs squatting and it's like oh my god what is this um yeah I just did arm curls and like bench pressing

so you're doing the douche workout yeah the douche work out this is a perfect one for you when was the last time you experienced extreme wrath or anger so even though you've done a lot of work on yourself, what's been the most recent time that you got pissed the fuck off? Oh, it's road rage stuff. So I was driving L.A. It isn't so weird that when you're in your car, you become a different person. I don't know if it's because you feel safe. Because there's things that you would never do outside of the car, but because you're in your car, you're like... Yeah, you have this protection. You would probably, yeah, I mean, not you, but just in general, people would shoot people. But like if you were at the supermarket, you would never,

you know, but like in the car, you're like, I'll fuck it. I hope you die. I'm going to chase you home. When like 10 minutes earlier, you could have done the same thing to someone else and like thought nothing of it. Like you cut someone else. You turned in front of them. I was on my phone and so I was driving a little slow and this giant lifted truck with two American flags screamed past me and was yelling obscenities and then it pulled over wanting me to go there

I think he wanted to fight and then there was that crossroad where it's like do I go and become that angry Korean guy or do I look I'm 48 I've got a child

do I just you know take the higher road and I took the higher road but I was furious like I wanted to take a bat to this person like that kind of rage that was the last time yeah but you chose the right

path, no pun intended. Well, that's because I can't fight. You're like, I could squat, but I can't actually hit anyone. I could talk about feelings all day. You could have decided what his demons were and unpacked them for him. When was the last time you were a sloth? So, like, just a lazy piece of shit said, I'm not doing anything today. I'm not looking at emails.

Yeah, today. That's awesome. Today, I did nothing today. I had one meeting with representatives. and then I'm having this podcast with you. I did a couple of videos. But other than that, yeah, I feel very unproduced. How often do you let yourself have like days to just chill?

One a week. I'm usually very productive. I'm at 5 a.m. But I think one, I had this thing called Fuck It Friday when I was working in nonprofit. We were always just like so down and overworked underpaid. I said, you know, on Friday, let's do one thing and just say, fuck it. So whether that's a donut or leaving home early,

whatever it is, one thing for you that you wouldn't normally do, but you're going to do, right? And so I think one day a week we should have that fucking Friday. It doesn't have to be on Friday, but it's like, you know what, fuck it. And today I can say it to wash, but you know what? I'm just going to file it under self-care and I needed to do nothing today. Hell yeah. That's what I tell my fiance. I'm having a mental health day today.

And he's like, you're watching Netflix. I'm like, mental health day. He's like, you had one yesterday in the day before as well. I know. I'm like, don't tell me when I'm good. I know what I need. I need a mental health month. He's so funny because we're like kind of a different generation. So I'm like, I'm having a mental health day. And he goes, it's called the weekend. And I'm like, no, it's a mental day.

When was the last time you let your pride or your ego get in the way of something? Like, how's your ego? Yeah, it's big. All areas have big egos. As you know, we're fire signs. Today, I actually got into it with my girlfriend. And we got into, I think I was defensive. I think I let some ego get in the way. So, yeah, today, a lot of stuff happening today, shit.

Yeah, today is, it's, as long as it's it's fresh in your minds, it's all some good anecdotes. When was the last time you lusted over someone? So besides your girlfriend, do you have like a celebrity crush or like a type? I don't have a type, but I love, this sounds obvious, but I love smart women. I love funny women. I love, yeah. So celebrity crushes, I don't know. We were talking the other day,

my girlfriend and I were talking about Jennifer Lawrence. Oh, yeah, she's great. Yeah, I think, I think. You know, and then there's the classic Natalie Portman. Everyone has a crush on her. Yeah, she went to like Harvard or something. Yeah, yeah. Has your type changed since your 20s?

Yes, I think what I'm attracted to and who's attracted to me has changed. It usually does as you grow and evolve, right? So I used to be, I used to attract the wounded. My dad was an alcoholic. I have addiction in my blood. So I would fall under the category of what they would say, what they would call bad boy, but someone who's reactive, unpredictable, you know, high strong and all that.

So I was the predator and I was, I was, I was a true. attracted to prey. And the prey was attracted to me. So someone who had something taken away from her growing up, maybe her voice, maybe, you know, where she's not able to express herself or doesn't like herself. Where she's willing to take any of the negativity from you because she feels like she deserves it and you're ready to express anger. Yeah. Because of your own past traumas. Yeah, that kind of trauma bond, as we call it. That, that, that was very potent. And so today, as I start to work more on myself, now I attract women who are not prey, women who actually can draw boundaries, say no, you know, call me out on my

shit and all that. Yeah, there's something so attractive about a partner who calls you out on your shit. And it becomes completely not about your ego. It becomes like, oh, wow, they care about me so much that they are telling me the truth about a situation well what makes it attractive is they care about themselves so much that they you know that's what makes it attractive not in an arrogant way but in a hey it's like if you want to be in my space and in my life this is what I need yes yeah oh my god okay final question and you probably have a bazillion answers for this but for all the listeners I like to always wrap it up by saying what is your secret like what do you do to cope with your hell when you're going through it

whether it's relationship hell whether it's career hell just when you're going through a tough time how do you cope oh man i'm going to say you know you know what my goal is in life is to not have a lot of false moments so whatever your hell is as long as you're honest with yourself what that's all you can do lying to yourself is what makes hell forever you know because then you carry that so um as long as you have honest moments in your life because that's going to equal self-esteem you know it's going to equal you being the best that you can be you know with whatever you can control um that's that's it that that that change that changes the hell because then it's no longer hell you're honest what else can you do but be honest you know

and what else can you do but be yourself and be human and also understanding like stop lying people don't normally want to lie but it's like really listening to the voices in your head of what is your truth what is your voice versus what other people want or what other people tell you. That's what I mean by honest putting action behind your honesty not just you know when I say honest people think

oh I don't really lie well do you exchange your truth for membership do you are you a false version of yourself do you live outside in instead of the inside out like those kind of things what do you mean exchange your truth for membership in my 20s in Hollywood, I would be anything you wanted me to be to be a part of something. So whether that's

a club or be a part of a relationship, like, you know, romantically or to be part of a friendship. So if you no longer do that, then you're now building self-worth. If you're always exchanging your truth for membership, you're living a powerless life. And this is why in Hollywood, everyone does it. And that's why everyone's driven by fear. Wow. Oh, yeah. And you said that in your speech you gave earlier about we will not be driven by fear. Oh, you listened. Thank you. Yeah.

No, yeah. Well, actually, because I was going to ask you about it and then I forgot it and you just reminded me because I feel like a lot of people make decisions based on fear. Yeah. And I didn't say we're not allowed to be afraid because everyone has fear. We're just not going to build love based on that. Wow. What is a fear that you might base your love around?

Like, as in, like, that they might leave you or, like, that you're scared of being alone? I have a fear that it will end. Yeah, I have a fear. I have this pattern of relationships lasting about three years, you know, that whole three-year-age thing. I want to swim past that. I want to give myself a new experience, you know. And so usually our patterns that happen, if we look at our relationships, they're going to continue unless we take a black light to them.

And so I have a fear that, yeah, one of us will check out before we should. Yeah. Or prematurely, you know. Holy shit. You are so vulnerable. You're so cool. You're so insightful. I feel like there's so many therapists out there that, like, fit kind of the mold.

But I think you're doing a great job at showing people that a therapist is not just kind of like a kind robot that asks you why you feel a type of way. And hopefully a lot of men out there, too, see you and want to be as vulnerable and open about their feelings. Where can my listeners find you, listen to you, read your books, join kind of your world? Just at the angry therapist across the board, the angry therapist. And yeah, thank you for having me on my podcast and all the kind words. Thank you so much, John. You're killing it.

And thanks guys for coming to hell today. We learned a lot of shit. And we didn't really get that angry, which was very nice. So we'll talk to you later in hell. Bye, guys. I'm Krista. I'm Christina Baxter. I'm Christina Williams, host of the podcast, in case you missed it with Christina Williams.

The WMBA playoffs are here, and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind-the-scenes moments you won't find anywhere else. It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have. So listen to, in case you missed it with Christina Williams and IHeart Women's Sports Production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.