Berner Phone - Komalesque: Quitting Gigs & Guys

Episode Date: March 27, 2019

Komal Kapoor is the creator of one of the first art poetry pages on Instagram. She quit her corporate job to help individuals be more themselves. She comes from a traditional South Asian family and it caused her to not express her feelings. This made her great at her job, but not great at relationships. We discuss how heartbreaks can happen with non romantic relationships, how to turn your heartbreak into art, spending money lowers your vibration, why women are bad at negotiating, people copying her Instagram concept, traveling alone, and her weird crush on Tim Ferris,  Purchase her book "Unfollowing You" on Amazon. Follow Hannah Berner on Instagram & Twitter: @beingbernz Follow Komal Kapoor on Instagram: @komalesque --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Welcome to Burning Hello Today I have a very special guest all the way from the West Coast just for my podcast, just kidding. She's on a promotional tour for her book, but her name is Kamal Kapoor. She's a motivational coach.

The first guest I've ever had who has a TEDx talk. She quit her corporate job when her poetry on Instagram grew 200,000 in a year. Holy smokes. And she's the author of the book on following you out now, available on Amazon, pretty much anywhere. And lastly, she loves helping people be more themselves. Kamal, welcome to hell. Thank you for having me here. She also took out a notepad because she likes to doodle when she talks, which is adorable.

I get a little nervous, so, you know, you want to talk about my demons. I have to not look at you and I'll just doodle away. These are all coping mechanisms, people. So how do you start becoming a motivational coach? That seems very intense. I envision like a guy with a really awkward suit on just yelling at people on a stage. That is definitely not me. That's not you.

When I left my consulting job, I started getting a lot of friends asking me for advice on how to get into the consulting world and also just help on their resume. I had hired a lot of people and also fired people in my previous roles. Yeah, so as a management consultant, you go in. I would go into hospitals and help them hire a bunch of people for their application implementations and also weed out the people that didn't really quite fit in. Were you good at firing people? Sadly, yes.

Why do you think you were good at firing people? Because my director would make me fire people. And he was just like, oh, you know, you're a little bit more ruthless and you don't mind. I was like, I mind. I just understand that it needs to be done. So you were able to separate kind of like your empathetic side from your, or maybe you're being empathetic towards the business knowing that this is beneficial for the business? Yeah.

So the first time I had to fire someone, I was 21 and I was freaking out. It was like this little old lady. She had kids my age. And I called my dad up. And he was like, you know, how is this impacting the other six people on your team? Are they having to work longer? Are they away from their families because of this one person? I was like, yes.

And it made sense in that framework that, okay, she's not contributing. And it's taking away from the rest of the people. But it was really hard. I've had people cry. When I fired them, I had someone tell me, you know, every plant needs sunshine to grow. and me as like a 22 year old at the time it was like oh so they're trying to fight for it yeah like they wanted a chance or another or they don't think you fully understand what's going on exactly and for me it's in those roles we were paying these people over a hundred dollars an hour to be there and to execute and they weren't doing their job and we don't have the time to say oh you have three weeks to make sure that you're upping your performance that wasn't the case in consulting so it's funny because I am, like many people, terrible at breakups.

Like, you know, first you realize you want to break up, and then it takes you about a month to get it together. And then you probably end up doing it when you least expect it, and you've just lost your mind, and it doesn't happen how it should. Do you have any advice for having hard conversations? Oh, because firing is pretty much one of the hardest conversations you can have. And I have never been one to really prolong breakups either. I'm very much like, this isn't working out.

she's a straight shooter i'm also i used to be actually even more just logic driven and part of why i even started poetry was because i would just i was not in touch with my feelings so when i go into these meetings i'm very much like hey these are the reasons why we're letting you go this is why you're not performing um thank you for all you've done and we appreciate your efforts good luck so you stick to facts very factual looking back now i would not change any of my decisions as far as the firings but maybe i could have been a little bit softer with them and also sticking to what you believe in because i'm easily like i'll go to a guy and be like i don't think we should see each other anymore and he's like oh but i just got tickets to like this comedy show and i'm like okay but okay fine i'll

go yes like i'm easily my mind can change easily or like he gets a new haircut and i'm like i'll stay with him for like two more weeks maybe see how this goes oh gosh no maybe i'm just kind of cold-hearted i love that i love a cold-hearted bitch but it's great that you mentioned your poetry comal you can follow her at comelesque is that how comelesque yeah comelesque oh so beautiful she was one of the first instagramers that would take her original poetry and put it in front of original art what made you start doing that so i've always loved art. I love painting. And when I actually started, I used to put my own doodles with my poetry. And I also had a few paintings. And there's no way that I could create art as fast as I write and the

output that's required for Instagram. So I used to post like twice a day. There's no way I could do paintings. Do you recommend if you're growing an account to post that often? Yes. I would say at least twice a day. Amazing. She's now at 300,000. And just staying concerned. And just staying concerned. system with it. Did you care about the feedback from people or was it more your own experience like for you therapeutically? So definitely very therapeutic. It was I didn't really care about readers. I didn't really think that it would come to this point. Would you tell your friends or co-workers you were doing this? No. So when I started, you know how Instagram has those suggested friends? Yes. I blocked everyone I knew and yes. I had gone through this heartbreak and I didn't really know what I

was going to do in life. I was kind of just in a mess and a crisis. And I basically just wanted to put something out there creatively. I just really needed a creative outlet. And I didn't want my friends and family to see. So I blocked everyone. And you created a safe space for yourself to feel free. Exactly. And I wanted to be able to express. And it was this particular heartbreak, which made me realize that I was kind of cold-hearted. And I didn't let it. And I didn't let it. And I was a Can you tell me what happened? Long story short. I really like this guy.

He ended up saying to me that, you know, I'm bearing my soul to you and you're giving me nothing. And at the time, I laughed at him because I didn't want to give him like the satisfaction of being right. But I realized that it's true. I wasn't very open about my feelings. I was always very logic-driven. So even with him, there were so many reasons we wouldn't work out. and I didn't want to even extend myself in that way emotionally and after he said that to me we kind of just stopped talking and it made me realize like fuck I really liked him and um so you were

like protecting yourself by being cold-hearted yeah were your parents very affectionate towards each other no and so growing up my dad's the kind of person and this is I think very common in South Asian families we don't really show a lot of affection where are they from specifically from India so and I'm an immigrant as well we moved when I was 10 and my dad like growing up he's very much like if you need to cry go cry in the bathroom like very yeah like man up kind of at least he let you go to the bathroom yeah that it's funny because it's like India no emotion and like probably not talking a lot about relationships and intimate feelings and then there's America that it's obviously more open and then there's like Europe where they're like

fucking in public. So it's like there's so many different cultures of how they express love and affection. Yeah. No, it's amazing. And it doesn't mean it's wrong necessarily because that's what you grew up with. Exactly. And I think that's what I try to tell, especially other South Asian immigrants or just, you know, people my age who really struggle with not being able to connect with their parents, try to tell them, like you have to understand where they're coming from. They're from this very different culture and generation. And just because they're not hugging you or saying I love you all the time doesn't mean that their actions don't show it. And I feel like a lot of people just lose sight of that. So why do you love writing the poetry? I don't always love it.

Honestly, sometimes it's hard. You said that sometimes you write like way faster than you would, let's say, create art. How does that inspiration come? Like is it in waves? Do you have to do something to trigger the inspiration? Let me know your thought process a little. Sure. So it depends. If there's a story that I really need to get out, and by story, I mean there's some dude that I'm trying to figure out what's happening. I write a lot because I try to write from their perspective as well, because I want to understand why they're behaving in a certain way, why I'm reacting in a certain way, and writing helps me through that. If I don't have a muse, it's a lot harder. so it's like what comedians sometimes don't want to be happy because then they don't get to like complain and shit on stuff right exactly no it's true aside from that i write a lot about friendships and i think there can be heartbreaks with just situations with your family your parents heartbreak is a universal feeling it's not just romantic right so i think that gets a little

bit harder for me to write about because it's i'm just like weeping in the corner like why did this happen or I really miss this person who was in my life a friend who was there for a decade and now we're just not friends anymore so I and friendships are so important they they really are and I feel like those heartbreaks sometimes are deeper than even some guy you've been seeing for a couple of months right I'm actually pulling up this quote that I saw that blew my mind she's on Instagram her name's bunny Michael at Bunny Michael and she wrote this The system commercializes romantic love because we're much easier to control in nuclear family units. Platonic love, self-love, love for community, love for chosen family, and humanity is the love that will set us free.

That's beautiful. And it's kind of controversial. The system commercializes romantic love because we're much easier to control in nuclear family units. But it's like, she's talking about Valentine's Day. That it's like, this is what love is. You have to find your love. go buy chocolates, go buy flowers, spend that money, when it's like, you know what, I'm going on a sushi date

with like six friends tomorrow. Right. And it's going to be fun. Instead of some bozo that I'm like trying to make it work with, but we only know each other for two weeks, but I want to post on Instagram and say I'm with a dude. Right. Exactly. Well, I also think that really speaks to why there's so much loneliness

in especially North America, United States, really, because the way the system is set up is we are forced into this capitalist society where we're living alone. We have maybe one other, you know, one significant other. We work eight hours minimum a day. Right. And we have these big houses, big apartments, and we fill it up with shit and spend all of our money on that because that's what they're pushing, right? Consumer marketing is just all about all the things you need to buy. But they're not really talking about the relationships with other people, like with friends, with your family. And those things heighten your vibration. Exactly. And it makes you happier and you're not going to go buy all of their shit if you're

happy. It's so true because you buy shit to try to gain something and to raise your vibration. But having those materialistic things, I think having extra shit lowers your vibration. I think it's like if you're feeling an emptiness of some kind, fulfill it with creativity, fulfill it with love, fulfill it with connection, romantic or friendships. I mean, I was a tennis player and trying to, I felt empty and I thought that winning. was going to fulfill that emptiness, and I did not have good friends. All the girls I knew I was competing against. It would be friendly, but in the back of my head, I'm like, I'm going to fuck you up on the court.

That's not friendship. And I know that she was thinking the same thing about me. Exactly. So it took me some time to realize girls aren't the enemy. Girls aren't my competition. Girls understand me better than anyone in the world. Exactly, because they've gone through it. They get it.

I kept putting on this mask of, I know what I'm doing. I belong in this position. I belong at this table and I would never really allow myself to connect with people. I had no relationships, like not just intimate ones, but friendships even. And I would go and I would buy like 10 pairs of shoes in like two hours at Aldo or there would be times where there would be a long weekend and I was like, fuck it, I'm going to go to Iceland and I'm going to Paris and spend ridiculous amounts of money doing that. we would, as consultants, we'd go out and have like $100 bottles of wine and all of this shit that didn't matter, but you think... And the more you do it, the less meaning there is behind it.

Exactly. And you think that buying all those things is going to fill up this vacuum, this emptiness inside you, and you don't realize that there's creativity and there's connection and platonic love that will bring you so much more satisfaction and contentment but that's not what's really talked about in like the mass media and just the general population. So what do you focus on when you're doing your motivational speaking? So I do coaching one-on-one or I used to before I started writing and that is mainly to help people better and better themselves in their jobs. Because I think especially for women, I feel like women have such a hard time articulating what their accomplishments have been. And a lot of what I do is help them recognize their strengths and all the amazing things they have done so that when they go into a job interview, they can just kill it.

When they go into like asking for a promotion or asking for that leadership role, they can go in with a lot of different examples and tools. So for me, that's motivational, but very business focus. And I think the more women that inhabit that confidence, the more other women will be inspired. by seeing them because we didn't grow up with that many role models to say like oh she did all these things I can do that too exactly exactly and I feel like especially when it comes to negotiations women just don't have those conversations even amongst themselves because money is such a taboo topic and it's so taboo right but it's doing ourselves a disservice because guys talk about it all the time they are sitting out there over drinks talking about oh yeah this is this was my bonus or this is how much

I made and as a consultant I was constantly surrounded by guys so I just got used to that and I want other women to get used to it as well because otherwise you don't know if you're getting underpaid or not yeah so when I got to do your research right exactly and like other women have to be willing to be open and share their numbers and it's so important so when my last job was at at UCLA and this is all public information but when they first gave me an offer it was I knew that it was such a low ball offer and at the time I didn't have anyone to really talk to about it and even my bosses who are all men they're just like oh that's great like you know you shouldn't really even worry about asking for more I was like fuck that I know what I deserve it's funny because in corporate environments they

scare you and they're like don't talk about salary right and it's like what's going to happen they're going to rescind their offer it's because they want to have control over you. Exactly. Because it's funny when I first went into the work field, the workforce, people were like, don't ask about money. But I quickly was like, I need to know what people are making around me because I feel like I'm going to take advantage of. Right. I was in sales and I was the number one selling salesperson in my company of 40 salespeople at 23. And I realized that my base salary was 15,000 below everyone else's because I was the youngest, but I was bringing in the most money. Yeah, that's ridiculous. See, and that's why.

And I only knew because one girl I finally started talking to, and she was like older experienced, and she was like, you need to get more. But the only reason I knew that was from kind of asking, and it took a lot of balls and months of like kind of getting the hoods but to do it. Right. And it's, it shouldn't be that scary. It shouldn't be this big deal asking for what you deserve. So you recommend how would you go about a conversation to find out what someone's making without making it super awkward? Oh, I am so. I don't know. notice I'm very blunt but I just say hey I hope you don't mind me asking but I want to make sure that we're all getting paid equally what was your offer or what was your salary at this position and completely fine if you don't want to share it doesn't take away money from them exactly exactly

it also says in your in your motivational coaching that you help people be more themselves that really touched touched a chord with me was there a time that you felt like you weren't yourself and then you had to become yourself to be able to talk about that? Yeah, I think that's even more so in my writing because I feel like in the corporate world, I became this person that I didn't recognize anymore. And when I quit, it took me five months.

I was living in L.A. at the time. I drove out to Wisconsin. I was like living in this condo. And I literally had two suitcases, and I slept on the floor. And there was a lot of crying, because I just felt like I had lost touch with who I was. I had become a lot more ruthless than I would have wanted to be. And even though I wouldn't change any of the decisions I made during those five years,

I still didn't want to live that life anymore. It's funny, during college tennis, I was on the phone with my mom, and I was very stressed about things. And she was like, I don't really know who you are right now. And it was really disturbing to have my mom, my own mother, say that to me. Because you're not aware of it when you're living it. Right. And because I had so much pressure.

And during college tennis, I remember, I'm a silly outgoing girl. But I remember 7 a.m. I was so miserable. I didn't want to be there at weights. And I started to joke with my teammate and giggle. And the trainer said, if you giggle one more time, you have to do lapser on the basketball court. And I have nervous laughter. And I also, it's kind of like I was laughing so I didn't fucking.

cry. So, like, 10 minutes later, I started laughing and goes, burner, start running. I'll tell you when you could stop. So, like, I was literally doing something that was going against all of my natural kind of joy. Oh my gosh. Things that bring me joy. Like, I'm a jokester, but I also was really good at tennis. But I realized tennis actually wasn't my path, even though it did get me a full ride in college. It did teach me so many incredible skills and life lessons that were really hard because I think I was going against my natural grain. And it's okay to lose yourself because then when you do find yourself after losing yourself, you never take it for granted anymore. Exactly. So thank you for sharing that story because I haven't thought about this moment in many years, but in

corporate America, a very similar thing happened to me where I was working in Boston and it was 9.30 p.m. We were really behind on so many different projects and I laugh a lot as well. I'm a very goofy person and I was just sitting around with some analysts and we were just laughing and our director comes out and he's like you're just really loud like you know is it really necessary to laugh so loudly and I remember feeling like I wanted to cry and you know these are people that were reporting to me sitting next to me and here's this guy telling me not to laugh and again that's who I am and I had completely suppressed that for so long and there were moments like that I was like this is not this is not right it's so funny my ex-boyfriend who I bring up

because it was a rough relationship where I felt like I lost myself in it because I really wanted to impress him like I put him on such a pedestal when the you know when you're with your boyfriend and you're like what was what was the first thing you thought about me when you met me and he said I thought you were loud and I was like are you fucking kidding me like yes am I an outgoing person yes but my friends don't think I'm loud my friends think I'm bubbling and outgoing and funny. Vivation. But to call me loud was so painful.

And then I felt when I was with him, I'd get quieter and quieter. And by the end, I was just listening to him the whole time. And I'd lost my voice. And sometimes the wrong people, the wrong jobs, can trigger that in you. And sometimes, like, you just have to change the situation. It's not you. Exactly. Exactly.

And I think that... Like, you don't just disappear for no reason. Right. Exactly. But when you're living in it, it's so hard to pull yourself out. How did you do it? So I think I made gradual changes. So at first I thought that because I was traveling so much, I was unhappy.

And I recognized I was unhappy. And again, I'm very logic-driven. So every time I would think, oh, it's because I'm living in this city that I'm unhappy. So for seven years, I didn't live in the same spot for more than nine months. Wow. So I was constantly moving, and then I was like, okay, maybe it's just consulting. I'm unhappy because I'm traveling all the time. I don't have a routine.

I moved back to L.A. to be closer to family. And within maybe five months of my new job, I was like, I'm still unhappy. And I don't know what it is that is causing me this unhappiness, but it's here. And I can't ignore it. So I think getting in touch with yourself and then recognizing that are you complaining like 80% of the time? And if so, you need to do something about it. Yeah, it's like understanding the voice in your head is your best friend.

And it's like, would you want to be with a friend who complains all the time? Right. So it's like if you're realizing most of your conversation is negative, something needs to change. Exactly. And that I used to think my voice in my head didn't affect me. Like I was living my real life and who cared what was going on in my head? It wasn't real. It wasn't out there.

But it really is. That's the tone and your vibe and your energy. It does. It so does. That affects other people around you too. Right. Exactly. And I think we're very similar as in I'm very bubbly.

I laugh all the time. And the scary part is I didn't feel like myself, but people around me didn't even notice. And that, to me, for a long time, was really heartbreaking because it was like, dude, I was so fucked up and you didn't say anything. Like, how did you not recognize that? It's so fucked up. But like, I was dating this guy that everyone. loved and I was so fucked up but all I was getting was oh you guys I went to a wedding with him and

people were like you guys are next aren't you and I literally couldn't eat the dinner at the wedding because I was so fucked up with anxiety yeah from feeling like I'm in the wrong place see and I think the scary part was you were talking about your mom kind of calling you out on you not being true to yourself for me it was the opposite so my dad had always seen me as this like strong person and he saw me as me in like my prime element in consulting. And when I used to try to talk to him, like, hey, I'm not really happy. He'd be like, what are you talking about? You're meant for this.

You're great at it. And I was really good at my job. I was good at tennis. Right. But it was heartbreaking because I would try to have these conversations with people. And they'd be like, oh, you're making so much money. Like you're 23. You're making six figures.

Like, who's heard of that? And you get to go fly to all. these new places. Because on paper, it looked great. On paper, this guy was great. On paper, your job was great. It's what everyone thinks brings happiness. And I've said this before in the podcast and I'll say it again. A job's not going to make you happy. A guy's not going to make you happy. Money's not going to make you happy. Getting skinny is not going to make you happy. Exactly. It's you. It's the voice inside you of actually loving who you authentically are. Exactly. And sometimes it's you having to remove yourself. Like I went to Madison because I didn't want to be surrounded by other people that

knew me and also you probably no one that really knows who they are it's more like accepting you growing each day in your purest form exactly that's why i don't want to go on a rant but i feel like instagram is so bad because people are getting the separation between who they really are and who they are on instagram and the farther you are from your authentic self whether it's online it's like me going to work every day and acting like a new person and looking completely different like that's not healthy for you It really isn't. And beyond just that, I feel like the problem with Instagram is I feel like I'm very authentic on there. I'm very goofy. But at the same time, that's maybe a minute of my life that you see in like six different stories. And people tend to think that that's all you are. That, you know, 10% of your personality that shows up on Instagram. That's who they think you are. And then you have a fucking identity crisis when you meet people in real life. And it's like, well, can you ask me questions? Don't just assume you know. me. I'm glad that you're stalking me. Great. Makes me happy that you're supporting.

And speaking of authenticity and originality, you were one of the first creators out there that would take original art and put original poetry over it. Now, as someone who doesn't know your journey, I saw your page and I fell in love with the quality of it, but I also knew there are a lot of pages that are similar out there. How did it feel to feel like you inspired slash people kind of copied your strategy? it's it depends on the day because at the end of the day yes it's flattering to have people copy that but it's also really frustrating because it's something that I really I love art and I really wanted my page to be different from all the other poetry pages out there and now that there's

literally just I feel like almost hundreds that look the same not the same quality but the same concept you can say well also I'll I'll spend a long time looking for an artist reaching out to them all of that oh yeah and I'll post something of theirs and then the next day there's 30 other poets who have used it and it's it's frustrating but at the same time for the artist they get so much more exposure and I'm happy for that yeah it's it's tough because online it's so easy to steal and stuff like that obviously with the fuck Jerry issues and you know I'm an original tweeter and I always say there's a lifespan of a tweet.

You know, I put it on my Instagram, it gets shared until some motherfucker decides to cut my name off, and then people message me, isn't this your tweet? And I'm like, it's gone into the internet, but I'm already on the next tweet. Right. So I think with you, that's why, like, you having your book, you're on to the next thing. That's exactly how I'm feeling now. It's nice to have a physical product, and it's so nice to be on this book tour and meeting people in real life and hugging them and sharing stories.

I think that's greater than anyone copying anything on Instagram. Because Instagram was just a means for me to get my work out there. And that was never the end goal. We were just talking today. Instagram had a glitch. I woke up. I lost 1,500 followers. You said someone told you it looked like you lost 15,000.

It's scary to have your whole career based on an app that can have a glitch that you lose your followers. Exactly. And there are such volatile platforms, both Facebook and Instagram. Yeah, tell me about the algorithm, how it's affected you. Gosh, it's changed my reach so much. So it used to be that all of my posts would get shown to maybe three times as many people as they get shown to now, which is really frustrating. I feel like I was growing almost 1,000 new followers a day at one point. And now it's so slow.

And it's frustrating. It's frustrating because I have never put any sponsored content out there. I've never done any ads. I haven't monetized my Instagram because I want that connection with my readers. Did people reach out a lot to monetize? They have, yeah. And it's never been something. I think if it was a brand that I really felt strongly about, I would consider it.

But it has never been like that so far. I respect that a lot. Thank you. Thank you. And that was really important to me that I didn't want every other post to be an ad. What's your biggest insecurity when you post an intimate poem? Oh, gosh. It's gone through waves.

Because I always like to act strong. I'm just like, yeah, I have boy toys. Like, fuck dudes, men are trash. But for me to be like, you wear my feelings. Like, I'm so open on Instagram, but I rarely show the side of me that's like, I wonder if that guy's thinking about me. And like, I'll tell you down the podcast. I have moments where I wonder if a guy is thinking about me.

but most of the time like I'll be silly I'll be stupid but most of the time I'm just like fuck dude I'm put all these DMs on blast I don't give a shit everyone wants to fuck me I don't care but then I do have those moments and you're like only those moments right there's a lot of heartbreak so that's why I'm like I never even like to show a guy that he hurt me I'm the kind of person that like if we stop talking out of my pride I'll never reach out and who knows we might be like meant for each other and all I have to do is message him and tell him how I feel but I won't do that No, I, well, I was exactly the same way. That's why I felt like I needed to start writing because I couldn't say the things out loud.

Yeah. So when I started writing, I hoped that those would find, those written words would make themselves, like, work into my speech. And it's like, you don't know if I'm talking about you or not. That too, that too. See, for me, it was completely different because I used to be very camera shy and I still am. So for me, sharing on stories and doing those videos were. was a lot harder than the poetry because a lot of times

people don't really know who I am they're just looking at the post they're looking at the images and that's great and it's heartbreak and they're connecting to it exactly they're filling in their own blanks their own stories but when I started sharing myself and the kind of criticism you get online I just wasn't and I've been the kind of person

who has always been like I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. They're critiquing your art No, they're critiquing like my face, my voice. Oh, and your Insta stories? Yeah. Oh, God. And that's, yeah, that's what I was not prepared for. I didn't know people would have an opinion on my nose. What have they said? Oh, they're just like, just saying that I have a big nose or some people love my voice and they're like, oh, you didn't do a video today. I miss your voice. And some people will be like, your voice is so annoying. You always look the same. It's like, it's my fucking fee. what sorry i didn't do the sparkle filter right exactly or you know i always it's really important to me to send smiles every day because the way that our narrow chemistry works if you see someone all smiling you smile automatically even if it's just a picture i love the logic of that if you're like i'm a logical person if i smile you're going to be happy right like those are dopamine like firing and endorphins and everything and it's really important to me but then there'll be people like

you always just have the same face or the same smile and it's like it's my face and if you don't be like go read my thousands of different poetry if you want variety right exactly or yeah or you know people online will always want to try to quote unquote help you and say oh you're getting a little bit big and i'm just like this is really ridiculous it's funny you know you've made it once people start criticizing you yeah and yeah so there's i think there's just a lot of hate online that I wasn't prepared for and even the images I use I feel like we're in this very PC culture right now and I will have people say like oh you're not using um why don't you use two women or this isn't friendly for transgender or this isn't you know you don't have anyone

with disabilities um represented on here and for me it's like I these are my stories and I try to It's your experience. It's your authentic experience. Right. And it's art that speaks to me. I never think about it in that way. Will you change based on what someone has said? No.

I respect that. Thanks. Also, you're sitting here with 300,000 followers, a book deal, book tour. You said to me that you might be over Instagram. Yes. Well, I think that I want to continue posting and interacting with my phone. followers and readers but I don't think I don't know I don't think I can do it as much as I have been you're kind of over it I think I got to a point where I got a little too hung up on the numbers if

I'm being honest because when I was trying to get the book out there that it's my only marketing platform true and that's when the algorithm changed and I was like well fuck how am I going to get this book out there because my posts just aren't getting any reach so you wanted to grow grow, grow. I just wanted more people to be aware that the book is out there. And I don't really like Instagram ads. I didn't want to go that route. And I also didn't know if that would really fuck up my algorithm too. If we're being honest, right? So, it's like you're walking on eggshells with Instagram. Right. Exactly. And I, all I want is just more people to be aware of the book, whether they buy it or not. That's up to them. So it sounds like it went from being therapeutic to

stressful. Yeah. And, but I also now, I'm getting so many pictures and videos of people reading the book, and I love seeing which pages they resonate with, and that's amazing. So I love that aspect of it. So it sounds like you're in a transitional period. Yeah. Would you call it that? A little bit.

Yeah. It's exciting, though. I love when you're in that point in your life that you don't really know what's going to happen. Like the book just came out. What's your plan right now? I think I'm going to take a month off. and figure out what I want to do next.

I think there will be another book, but I also really miss, I'm such a business-oriented person as well, and I miss having routine, and honestly, the last six months were very isolating with the book, and you don't, no one else is going to care more about the book.

Would you go back to corporate America? I don't think I would go back to corporate, but I think maybe like my own business or a startup or something, a product that I really am passionate about, and still continue writing, of course. I feel like what differentiates you from other people is some people just think there's a certain way that things should happen

and you're creative with your vision. Like, you're literally confined by just your mind. The fact that you're like, oh, I just want to start a business. Like some people would never be like, well, I have this big Instagram so I have to monetize it. I have to do what everyone else is doing. And you're like, yeah, I've been there, done that. Let's go conquer something else.

I'm kind of a crazy person. No, I love crazy people. I love them so much. Also, it's great that you're taking a month off because some people, the best thing to do when you're brainstorming or even if you're just writing a comedy sketch, the worst thing you could do is sit at home and think. The best thing to do is go live. Like go do things and inspiration is everywhere when you put yourself out there. Exactly. So, and that's the thing. I don't like complaining. So my friends know this. I have to work on that. I love. Well, not complaining. I like talking shit. Talking shit is different though. But like if I'm if I'm continually saying, oh, I'm miserable and mentally. life like you will never see me do that yeah once I start complaining at a job like some people it's just their thing once I start complaining it really affects me yeah like within a week I will have the next plan because yeah like I have friends who will bitch about their job for years like I was in a job once with everyone was bitching and I was like I still like it the day that I started complaining

about it I was out in two weeks that's the kind of motivational coaching I do because if people are really miserable I'm telling them what's keeping you back That's the thing. Like, stop complaining and do something about it. Get off your ass. I also realize some people love just having something to complain about. And I turn away a lot of clients because I don't want to work with those people. I just don't have the patience.

It's like their comfort zone to just constantly have an excuse because then you can just whine. And whining can take all of your energy. Exactly. And you have the energy to find new things to do. Yeah, no. So we've gone pretty deep. But I want to delve a little deeper into hell with a final game. Seven Deadly Sins

What are you greedy about? A few different things, maybe, but I think the biggest one is, especially when I have a crush on someone, I'm so greedy about attention. Like, I want all of the attention. Is this new part of you, because before you said you were cold-hearted bitch? Yeah, I was cold-hearted, but I also always still wanted the attention. and I it's one of those things like even if I responded with something that's not repliable I expect you to come up with another question I just saw a meme like that I didn't do that that's why it's on my mind it's like girls want you to respond regardless that they tell

you something that has no response possible they're like come up with some new shit exactly yeah no I think that I'm a little bit bratty in that way but the tough thing is that I love guys who give me attention but then when a guy doesn't give me attention I love that too because I want to chase it and he's probably terrible for me like there's a reason why our conversations aren't naturally flowing but he'll be the one that i'll fixate on when other guys are like way better conversationalists and we actually get a long way better but i'm like why isn't that guy obsessed with me right no that always happens that's just the human psyche right but i feel like i'm also not into convincing guys no i'm not yes i'm like fuck you like if you don't like me whatever i might be too

quick to drop people. Me too. Like someone will just not give a time for when we're going to meet up and I'm like fuck this I'm not meeting up with him. Me too, yeah.

It's just sketchy. I don't like it. Yeah. No, unless you pick out dates and give me time frames and that's where I've gotten this feedback in the past where I'm a little bit business-like.

But I'll call people out like this one Australian dude who I shouldn't see because I've done Australia and it's not, they're just wild and some of them are bad communicators and but they're so,

they're so. and their voice I love it but he's literally like let's get lunch on Thursday I said cool and then he like I was like are we not doing times are we just going to guess I were just going to go to the coffee shop whenever we feel like and hope you're there and he's just like ha ha and then I'm like okay fuck you I'm not going and my friend's like oh I heard you go on a date on Thursday he told me and I'm like no we're not we're not going on it because he didn't give me a time and normal people give times yep and I feel it's also disrespectful to my time it really is I'm not just waiting around for you especially in L.A I feel like

like people are like oh let's hang out Friday night and it's like well is that dinner are we getting drinks what time where and what part of town yeah like I don't just want you to say that to give me affection that you want to see me yeah you were doing it or not exactly and I hate it when the day before they're like oh so this in this place it's like no I made other plans you didn't tell me so you know pick another day or we probably are not going to get along yeah and it's so easy to flake so it's like if you don't give me a time and a place it's not happening exactly who are you envious of ooh it's getting harder it is I should have really prepped for this because I know I like when you don't know because if you overthink it it's not as good um I have like a

mini is she a celebrity to me she's a celebrity I have a crush on Rachel Hollis right now oh wait I know who she is she wrote a girl stop apologizing yes and she's cool she's so cool And I feel like, so she works with her husband and has four children and also runs this like multi-million dollar company, has two of the best podcasts, has like a New York Times bestseller. And she's like 35. She's one of those people that they say like, if someone's making you jealous, that means you want to do it. So like use her for inspiration to be like, that's what I want to do. Yeah, no, that's exactly it. So I feel like she's such a great. Like if it lights a fire under your ass, take it as a message from the universe. Yep. She's a great role model. And I feel like, every. everything she's doing is also achievable for me. Yeah.

So it's envious is like your path is similar. Yeah. I think if you there are a lot of situations that if you start feeling envy, be like, am I envious of them or is it just me now discovering what I want to do? Right. And that's why I don't think it's like a positive perspective. Yeah. I don't think envious is the right word.

But it's definitely she's someone that is paving the way for me because. So cool. Yeah. What do you glutton? about oh like you seem so kind of rigid and logical with your life when do you like let go oh a lot so when i let go i completely let go so i'm gluttonous about um definitely sweets but that's you know dessert and what kind of dessert oh gosh all of it brownies cupcakes uh red bellaed cupcakes oh yeah we walked into a coffee shop she goes i'm going to have a red velvet cupcake i'm like okay

and then she's like actually i shouldn't actually i should well i would have except they it used um It looked like they used too much food coloring. It was way too red, and I don't like that. I respect that. Thank you. I respect that. Also, gluttonous with travel. I go a little bit overboard.

What is overboard with travel? Like, I will spend a low too much. Yeah, I will plan like a week in, not even plan. I will buy a ticket a week in advance for an international trip, and then I will just spend way too much money on hotels, and I don't plan anything. Do you go alone? Mostly, yes. Wow.

I love traveling. Do you have any advice for people traveling alone? Don't be scared of it. I feel like a lot of people worry. And most places in the world are very safe. People are very welcoming. Go to cafes alone. Go to bars alone and talk to people. But I love having conversations with people. And I love hearing about what makes people happy and what they feel really accomplished by. And those are the questions I like to ask when I travel. I love that so much. Thank you. When was the last time you experienced wrath? Do you get angry? I do get angry. Oh, I get very angry. I used to be really hot-headed. This is a really silly one, but last week I was on book tour, and I had, so silly. I had this really weird dream about the guy that the book is based off of. Oh, my God. And he was with a girl, like some random chick and super PDA. And part of the problem with us was like he's not very affectionate. And he was super PDA and then ignored me. and I woke up from this dream like angry I was like fuming and he had we've like kind of been friends recently and he was trying to talk to me and I was like you know what I'm really fucking pissed at you wait so you're like talking to him right now no not in that way like is it is it really

not in that way it's not in that way we're just friends like so you just kind of like who he is as a person you still want him in your life yeah he's super smart he's very supportive I really value his opinions in my life um and he's seen me through this whole journey um so it's important for me to hear his perspective on certain things and i allow it but that and i told him i was like i had a dream about you and i'm really bad i know this isn't logical he was like what am i supposed to do like what did i and i didn't even tell him what the dream was so he had no chance of overcoming it was just like that is so funny to me for two days when was last time you were a sloth because you've had a busy last couple months no but I was super slothy um oh gosh

slothy I love that so slothy feeling sloppy hashtag slothy um there were like five days I think three weeks ago where I did I like didn't leave the house for four days it was really bad but I think that was also not good for my mental health why did you do it I was feeling really overwhelmed by all the book stuff some of the early reviews were coming in and most of them were great but we always fix it on the not so great ones so I just I was feeling really just overwhelmed by what was going to be next and I didn't want to deal with people so you were kind of in your head for five days it was really bad how did you get out of it I told my friend and I think that's the biggest thing if anyone is having trouble and if you're like me and isolate yourself

just tell one person and having them give you the perspective of dude your book is coming out or these are all the other great things in your life you need to just get over yourself is so important because you spiraled and someone just needed to like take you out of that spiral yeah just like be like hey this is a whole back to reality exactly this is the world like you are not in the real world right now you're in your own head and I I think over the last year that's happened more often than ever in my life because i've never been so isolated and writing is just such a solo task and you are so in your head when you write oh god so i've been really grateful for some really amazing friends when was the last time you let your pride get in the way of something like your ego yeah that usually

happens with men in my life where i don't i've gotten a lot better over the last year because that's why i started writing where I'm like, hey, I do kind of like you. Maybe we can hang out sometime. But before that, I would not let men know that I like them at all. Also, history tells women, like, don't you dare chase a man. I'm sorry. I walk into bars. I see what I'm dealing with. These guys are as insecure as you are. So it's like, it doesn't hurt for you to go and talk to them. And then if you realize that he's not reciprocating, who cares? Well, and that's the funny part where I love picking up men. I love going into a bar. Go for you, girl. Go for you girl. So I have no problem saying, hey, I want to go out on a date. Yeah. And any of that, like the first few. But feeling. Yeah,

when it's like, oh, I actually really like you or, oh, like, are we going to be some. Yeah, I can't. Last question. When was the last time you lusted over someone? So I've had the biggest crush on Tim Ferriss for a really long time. Oh my gosh. Which is so, I know. Everyone thinks I'm so weird when I say that. I actually haven't listened to his podcast. Does he have a hot voice? I don't know if it's his voice. It's just I love the way his brain works. And I just want to be like, hey, what up?

That's the most romantic thing I've ever heard. Oh my gosh. I like date jock, so I've never once been like, I like the way that I was, I like, I like how his brain works. No, I'm like, I like how his dick works. Anyway, so I want to end with one final question. What advice would you give to people for co-opening? with hell. Take care of your bodies. Don't overeat or over drink because you will just spiral

and reach out to your loved ones because they really do care and they want to help you. And from someone who's been in hell a few times, just recognize the signs and shoot a text to your best friend. I love that so much. What are some signs? Some signs for me, it's when I'm eating a lot of junk food when I stop going to my I love going to hip hop cardio and if I stop going to my workout classes I know there's something off um also if I start canceling plans or not really making an effort all all three things eating no working out and not being social so put yourself out even when it's hard reach out people care about you yeah and I think that sometimes we get cut up in this, oh, this is self-care. I need to be by myself and take care of myself. And I think that's

kind of not right. I feel like people will cancel in the name of self-care, but sometimes wallowing in your own feelings at home is not the self-care that you need. You need to be out in the world. I think that technology is screwing us over because it didn't used to be that you can cancel an hour in advance because, oh, you feel a little bit shitty. No, you make the effort, you go out because your friend is going to be waiting there and then when you see them you're happier so i think just don't give yourself excuses to not go out into the world i love that kamal kippoor you crushed hell you crushed hell follow her at kamal-esk at k-o-m-a-l-es-q-k-u-e yes i got it you didn't think i would no you can follow me at being burns and also purchase her book on following you it's

incredible. I can't wait to finish reading it. Thank you. Bye.