Berner Phone - Sarah Nicole Landry: Stretch Marks & Sanity

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

The Birds Papaya is in hell to address her divorce, disordered eating, body shaming, 22,000 unanswered emails, and the baby on her boob. She is the stretch mark queen and we love her so much!!!--- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

There's nothing more unattractive than a guy who, like, cares about his abs. Somehow, that is the most true statement I've ever heard. Welcome to Burning Hell. It is another episode of Hell. I'm in it. Welcome. Join me in the heat. I'm your host Hannah Burner, and we have, like, the most perfect guess for Burning

in hell. I've kind of been too nervous to ask her to come because I was like she's made to be on this podcast and I was getting nervous and putting it on a pedestal. But here we are. We are with Sarah Nicole Landry, aka the bird's papaya. She is a divorced and remarried mom of four. And let me just say, newborns to teens. This isn't like a bunch of teens that are out like at the park chilling by themselves. She like has someone, um, sucking her teeth right now. The hormones in that household must be unbelievable. She lives in Ontario, Canada. So we're going to learn a love about Canada today. very excited we love maple syrup but the big deal she has almost two million followers on instagram who knows other places but she uses it in a very powerful way she battles perfectionism

disordered eating body shame the list goes on and she's a body confidence advocate a speaker a writer occasional model weekly podcast host of the papaya pod that i just was on you have to listen i got a little dark as you guys know i do and she was named by today's parents one of the most influential parents. So, like, maybe I will, she'll adopt me today. Anyway, Sarah, welcome to hell. Thank you. And you know what made me one of the top influential parents was my willingness to go there because I shared that I got shingles on my vagina last year. So that, that's what they, that's what they used as like, she's a great parent. She's willing to go there on all the things, including shingles on her vagina. Like, it was amazing. My dad was like,

wow, never been more proud. I was like, sorry, dad. But shingles on your vagina does sound like hell and teaches all of us when you're going through hell, good things happen from it, like being recognized as an influential shingle parent. No pun intended. Also, I love your bio. I love when people write their own bios because you said you have 22,000 unanswered emails,

a baby on the boob and peanut butter straight from the jar. What's the deal with the emails? Is it like, are you okay? I don't know why. It's like, do you know when you have something you're supposed to be doing and the longer you don't do it, the more it just compiles? Yeah. I've been doing that for like a decade. So it's really just gotten, it's actually 26,732.

Yeah, you need update your buyer. I scan through them and I look at the ones that I like absolutely have to, but I definitely miss some important stuff. And I just, I have, I have to communicate to the world that I'm not an email person. So I now have somebody who, my Haley, my operations manager, she. she does like the intake emails now because clearly I've been left with too much responsibility for that. I have the worst distracted mind. So I'll open something at like 2 a.m. on my phone and I just never return to it. So it's just not the place to find me. Yeah, you're like, I'm not an email person. I just do like, carry your pigeons or like smoke signals. Smoke signals. It's like where

people are you on? Do you go on Instagram DMs? Like is that where people read to? I do spend, well, I mean, even to that, that's a little tricky. Yeah, I don't know. Usually if you send an email to my operations manager, she flags for me the stuff that I really need to like get on or be replying to. But just like my general inbox, I don't know. And you've signed up for so many free coupons and stuff along the way. It just gets so clogged. Like I feel like we all need a new email every three to five years just to kind of like clear the bank and like restart. I just cut out the toxic emails in your life. Seriously. Because, know those people where they're like actually categorize every email that comes in and they put it

into a folder. I wonder what that's like. I deeply don't know. Like I just, it's just not who I am. But I try and remind myself that even though I'm a completely scattered person, I'm such a procrastinator, I run on fumes 90% of the time. I'm still having a successful career because I think a lot of us think that unless we're organized or unless we like have our mental health like 100%, we can't do all of these things. And I'm just all over the place all the time. And I'm still, it's still working out. Also, people with OCD are battling their own issues of, of like, God forbid, they don't open one up. And I'm envious of them because it's probably just like nicer in their living room and their bedroom. I always wonder what that's like to have like a really tidy home or like such a nice.

I just don't have it. It's just not who I am. Question. Is your husband neat? No, he's not. but I also wonder if he was neat and then he met me and was like, he just gave up. Because you know how people are like, do you have a junk drawer in your home? I'm like, I have a junk house with one drawer that's organized if that kind of gift. I just, to be to be completely honest, I don't mean to like diagnose myself here, but I'm very distracted. I'm a very distracted person. It's very hard for me to focus on things. I don't want to say that I have attention deficit, but we can probably assume that I do,

which lends itself so well into creativity because my thoughts just bounce around on things all the time. I'll deep dive on something like in emotional wellness. But I can't hang up a shirt that I just tried on. You know? Like I just can't get there. We are so, we are so fucking similar. But I'm like kind of very organized with my work. But then with my personal life, I'm like, I don't have enough bandwidth for this. But also like my fiancee is a mess. And it almost prevents fights because I'll be like, can you, can you put that away? And then he'll be like, can you put that away? And I'm like, no. And he's like, no. And I'm like, okay, let's move on with our day. You know what? I've learned along the way that it's best to delegate things to the people who know

these things best. I love having, we have a cleaning company that comes in every couple weeks, not right now because we're in lockdown, but every couple weeks. And all it does is motivate me to tidy the house. And, you know, these like little things, these are not things that I'm skilled at, but I get to support somebody who is skilled at it. Somebody said this to me once. That's a great way to support the economy is by doing what you're good at and support others who are good at what they're doing. So I'm supporting the economy. You don't want her to judge her if she's, he or she to judge you that bad. Exactly. So we have to tie. My son sent me a TikTok yesterday and he was like the moms who clean the house before the house cleaner comes. And I was like, yeah. I can't have them

know me that well. Like if they actually showed up under the conditions we live, I would have to move and, like, be a different person. I'd have to take on a whole new personality. I straight up blame Des. I straight up blame Des. I'm always like, I'm so sorry. I've been out of town and he just wrecked the place. He actually has this hilarious story that he were in his old apartment, like his door was open and the police noticed and they opened it up and they came in and he was like, what's going on? They were like, we thought that someone robbed the place. It's disheveled. And he's like, no, that's just my apartment.

That's just how I live. Let's get into darkness. We've laughed enough. Let's do it. We've laughed enough. So you got divorced. What was that like? I mean, what happened?

Divorce is just the craziest thing because you, there's two different things that happen. Either it's decided for you or you decide for it. Neither one of those scenarios are easy because if you're the one deciding for it, you're having to manage with all of the emotions leading up to it. You're almost like, it's the same with any breakup, right? There's the dumper and there's the dumpy. So there's the person who's been battling the thoughts before the breakup. And then there's the person who finds out the things after the breakup and have to manage it.

So I honestly was, I don't ever talk about like the wise around our divorce only because I have kids, which is just me kind of protecting them and understanding that they have a relationship with both of us. And I don't want them to have to live in a world where they can. and Google certain things, but I was married at 19. I was in a high school relationship with a guy for a couple years and we broke up and two weeks later, I rebounded with somebody and nine months later was engaged to that somebody and then was married for 11 years. I had three kids by the time I was 25. Wow. I just, I didn't even know who I was. I don't think I had any, any, like, available

knowledge or emotional maturity to see that I was making decisions out of people pleasing, that I was, you know, creating a world for me that I didn't actually fit in, and that I slowly became more and more uncomfortable in it. And that's only like the tip of the iceberg to like our in higher relationship. But also it's hard because there are people who marry people at 19 all the time who marry forever. Yeah. And some people like will grow together and learn and then some people grow apart. someone actually on TikTok, since we're referencing it as of today, as a real site, the new Wikipedia was talking about like how people have different energies at different time and energies attract you at certain time, but it's just not, that's why there's so much

divorce that happens. There is. How did you get the balls to do it? It's, it actually took me three years. And I think that this is the important part is once I've described it almost like a car crash that happens. If you were in the car, you understand all the context and everything leading up to that moment before the crash. But for everyone around you, they're just seeing it for the first time. They're turning their necks. They're looking about who's to blame for this. What, like basically, what happened? Who's at fault? These are the two common things that happen that everyone just rubber necks at the situation. They weren't in the car. They weren't in the car. They weren't in the drive leading up to it. So I was alone in that. I was sitting with that

for years, right? So I, you know, kind of kept, I kept hope. I really had a lot of fear of what it would look like because I was a stay-at-home mom. I didn't have my own income. I didn't even have a car. I didn't have my own bank account. Everything was shared. I didn't, it didn't tangibly understand how I could leave. Like, it didn't make sense to me, even though people were like, no, you totally can. There's so many options here. Like, my parents were even, like, my mom at one point, like, emailed me, like, here's where you would sleep in our house. Like, here, it's all there for you. I couldn't get there because it's like when things are bad, you start to look at the situation. You're like, okay, I need to do this. I just need to do it.

I just need to do it. I just need to go. I just need to figure this out. And I need to, like, just go. But then things get like a little bit better. And then you're like, okay, well, it's so much easier than having to move and having to do this and like uproot my whole life and have to say to everybody and feel all this shame and have to explain. And I don't know that I want that. Like it just, I kept in the cycle over and over where I'd get like gutsy. and be like, yes, I'm going to do it. And then back into like, no, I'll just bite the bullet. I'll fall on the sword.

The problem with falling on the sword is you think you're doing it in protection of everybody else. I thought if I just fell on the sword, I'm the only one bleeding. Nobody else is getting hurt. Everyone will still be happy and not upset. No, everyone's fucking slipping all over the blood all over the floor. Like it's not. It didn't work out.

It's a blood bath. It's a blood bath. And then your children are witnessing it. And then they become like, they have their own micro traumas that happen from your greater trauma that you're trying to carry acting like a normal human being by the end. And it was hard for me to actually look back reflectively and figure this the fuck out. But I would look back and I would, I would remember just sitting on the kitchen floor and weeping. I remember my son getting nervous for me to leave a room without him. And, you know, we've never really had like full conversations around a lot of it. It was very

honest with my kids like when everything happened but you know my son actually compartmentalizes me as old mom and new mom like so that just goes to show you the difference what happens when you're trying to fall in the sword and when you actually take it out and try and deal with the wound and try and deal with you know what has happened and what is going on so I I had to like honestly it took me three years to get the guts to do anything but when it actually happened was the most calm it was the middle of a, it was a Wednesday, it was a middle of a Wednesday in early November. And I straight up just texted my mom and I said, I think I'm, I think I'm ready. Like, I think I'm good to do this. And so we kind of got everything in order. I stayed there one more night and got everything

in order the next day. And very, very peacefully packed up myself and grabbed some, like as much as I could, really packed one car full and went to my parents' house, sat down the kids, and immediately told them what was going on. And since then, it's been just, and you know, do you think that's like the worst thing that's going to happen to you was that you, like, you lose your house or you lose your car, you don't know what you're going to do. These are like the scary roadblocks for ourselves. But the reality was I got to move home where I had supportive parents. I had an entire like community of people who had my back. I was so, I was not in a good place with my eating. I was not in a good place in general. I ended up getting

like a really great job though. And then I got a second really great job. So I was working two like dream jobs after feeling like I wasn't even worthy of having a job because I'd been a stay-at-home mom. I didn't, nobody was looking at my resume. And I kind of have had to compare it to what it was like living on a life that was like a train off its tracks. It was just constant pushing and effort. and you know it was hard it was hard to push a train that's not on its tracks and as soon as I left that should have been like the hard part but it was like a train getting back on the tracks where everything just sort of just like click click click click click and suddenly things were like wheels are in motion my life started to come together by me falling apart so it was hard as hell and the biggest

piece of my own love story that I could ever possibly tell wow I have goosebumps and it really sounds like you needed to close that door for like any doors to open up for any potential for change. But I also, it's so interesting how like other people's perceptions of it all and how you'd affect other people seem to be like weighing very heavily on you. Yeah, I struggled a lot with, you know, what people with. I live in a fairly small town, not super, like maybe 150,000 people were just like, I don't know, you live in the same town and there's enough people that know you you have shared friends you know how this is going to go down and you almost just have to throw your hands up to all of it i had somebody call me really really early on and she was like first of all

get your get your skin thick real like right now like right now you need your skin as thick as possible and you need your circle tight so i was like okay she's like choose a few people that you talk about this with and to everyone else you do not owe an answer to their question you need to understand that you do not owe everybody an explanation to a why. It's exhausting. It's exhausting to the point that people would actually go and like talk to my kids on the playground and be like, because I had a bit of a Instagram following at that point. And they would come on the playground and like to them and picking up their kids at school and be asking about like what happened at home. Like what, what happened? Like are you okay? Like all of this stuff. So I had to start like

giving context to their teachers and like explaining things and just like to keep. them safe like just really bothered me that the kids were now put in the situation of like just answer the question but like anything else maybe everybody was rubber necking but for whatever reason i had this memory of another friend of mine who went through a divorce and i remember it's all anybody talked about everybody made assumptions they were like creeping their social medias like maybe it's this maybe it's that maybe they were dating somebody maybe they're having a fair maybe there was this that you know everyone starts to like try and figure it out And so all I could cling on to was that, you know, three years earlier, her whole life was

like exploded. It was all anybody could talk about. But I couldn't remember the last time anybody did. So in my head, I was like, if I can just get through this part, nobody's going to talk about this in a few years. I will be, this will be irrelevant. They will be so far down the highway that they forget they rubbernecked at that crash. And I just clung to that. I had to think beyond this moment of time that was so difficult when everyone was like pressuring me for this why. It's so hard when you're in it to be like, it'll be gone, but you're like, but I'm here right now. Yeah, and you have to understand the absolute worst things happen because the rumors that got started about me, like I hold my head so high because I know my truth. I know what happened and I'm confident

in, you know, this relationship ending. For both of us, it was a good idea for it to end. However, within six months of time, it began that there was a rumor going around town that I had actually had an affair and that it was with a married person and that's why all of this happened. So again, I chose to be silent. Again, I had to fight against that, answering everybody's questions. I just had this bigger picture mentality of eventually people are going to, like eventually people will decide about me and they'll go one way or another. And I just have to hold onto my truth and not, and keeping my circle tight and not answering everybody's questions. And as a really open book person, it's been the hardest part of my entire story to

like hold to my chest. But it's honestly, it's called boundaries. It's my one boundary. And you know what? It's not even a me boundary. It's my kid's boundary. I have to, I have to protect them.

It's not because in a relationship ending that involves children especially, it's no longer just your story. It's no longer just about you and them and why you broke up. it's also the trauma of your kids that will now have to carry forward everybody knowing certain things about your life and without individual consent from each of them which I don't feel like they were emotionally like this was like five years ago I don't think that they were emotionally ready to give any sort of consent to anything like that it was what it was and they each dealt with it in their own different ways I mean my son

went to school and I said to them like you can all tell your friends you can tell everybody the way you want to tell them however you want to that's on you if you ever have any questions please come to me but like whenever you're ready you can start sharing with you know people in your relational world and my son was like oh were you not supposed to do that because I already told everybody for show and tell last week okay well that was that we read the show and tell story for kindergarten class well I I mean, it reminds me of this quote on a t-shirt that says good sex, no stress, one boo, no X, small circle, big checks.

And that's what we have to live our life by. But I also love all the car metaphors because it really, like you've been saying rubbernecking. You've been saying car crash. Yeah. It's literally when there's a car crash and everyone stops to watch. Yes. That's what a divorce is. And it's also like, why are all these people watching?

Because it could be them the next day. And it's something like it's animalistic where it's us projecting our own stuff. fun like holy shit like if if her relationship isn't good like if i could just get as much information as possible maybe it could save my own situation or it could give me warning in mind and reality is is no one gets married being like this is probably i mean maybe but like we all try to get married to someone that we think it's not like some people know things other people don't yeah and um it's just whenever someone gets divorced i just feel like proud of them there's yeah and i think we have to i think at this point we have to understand there was a lot that went into this like it's if you're somebody

who leaves the relationship or somebody leaves you you deserve support like that's that's just it i don't need to know your why and and this is i used to kind of be one of those girls that talked about the person going through the divorce and like did those assumptions and going throughout myself it just changed me as a person now i'm just like i'm going to assume the best of everything here and if they choose to share with me cool but like people's trauma is not our energy entertainment like it just can't be and I just I'm glad that I chose for it not to be when you just have people's trauma is not our entertainment I'm like except if you're on reality TV there's the exception to the rule I want to switch gears to your Instagram where I've most Instagrams are the same

I'm just saying a lot of Instagrams are the same when you go on the birds papaya you have a completely different experience and the kind of star of your Instagram are your stretch marks. Yeah, I know. Can you give me insight to your first stretch mark photo and how it happened? Yeah. So I'll give just a bit of backstory. So because I was pregnant at 20, I was the first and only person I'd ever seen was stretch marked. Besides like the little tiny ones that we would see on hips or breasts, I had these massive half inch wide four inch long all the way up to my rib cage. They split. They were painful. I was mortified. I bawled my eyes out and then I existed in shame for a decade about them because they didn't

stay red and painful. They eventually just like faded out. But again, I didn't see anybody else with that. So I had gone through like my personal weight loss story, which was problematic in its own self. But I lost 100 pounds and people began to ask me, you know, about loose skin. or like wanting to see my stomach. And so I was just like trying to tiptoe my way into like showing the reality of like a postpartum body and like one that had lost a lot of weight. And then I was wearing a bra at the time and it was Knickswear. It was a, it's a Toronto company.

And their CEO kind of slid into my DMs and she was like, I would love for you to come and shoot, you know, our new line for us. And I was like, no. no and she was I don't know how it exactly went but basically um it's happening Tuesday and we're not doing it without you so I was like okay so it's just like one of those like now this is out of my control this is somebody who is you know taking the photo of me it's no longer me taking the photo and like you know kind of showing my little tiny abs with like this my hips as far back as possible and like blown out exposure so you don't really see them and I get to the set and I

realize the photographer is like a foot shorter than me. So I start to sweat. And then I realized that they put me in low rise underwear. So I'm like really sweating. And I, I realize very quickly, like my stretch marks are going to be a focus of this. And I remember when I first saw the image that came from that, I looked at it and I thought I was going to throw up. It was like all of my worst fears. She knew about your, she knew about your stretch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And nobody, like, honestly, the day of shooting was like the most beautiful day ever. I actually felt, felt, so confident and I was like I was walking around in underwear like I just felt so good I didn't even think anything of it but like when that first photo came out it just like floored me it just it was like

everything that I'd been trying to hide about myself was now like in an ad and the thing was I was so embarrassed it wasn't on my channel but I was like mortified and then I read the comments and the comments were just you know one after the others for thousands of comments because the post actually their ad actually went viral just basically like I had no I that there was another body like this like mine. I didn't know that other women like this existed. I just have never seen myself in a photo before like I do this one. And you have to understand at that time it didn't know. Yeah. And at the time I didn't know at the like what they were experiencing. I was experiencing because I also didn't know that there was stretch marks like

other people had stretch marks like I had stretch marks. It's not like we're talking years ago. So this is not like now how you can go on Instagram and it's like much more like normal to see it. So it just woke me up to, okay, first of all, by the end of reading those comments, I didn't feel shame anymore. And slowly after that, I just stopped feeling shame at all anymore. And then after that, I was like, wow, I can actually wear crop tops and, wow, I can actually wear two-piece bathing suits. It was just like this slow thing. And there's this quote that I love that's like once a secret is told it loses its power. And that's what that photo did for me. It took my darkest shame and it just blew it up and then it was no longer shame because shame lives in the dark.

It lives in dark places. It lives in hiding. And once I showed it, it's not that I walk around and I'm like, I love my stretch from ours. They are so cool. It's more like I don't give a fuck anymore because it's a normal thing. The alternative is, and this is what really trips me up sometimes is understanding what happened. And the reality is of stretching is something that didn't break. So my skin had an option there to not grow, to not stretch or to split open and decided to create, like our skin is actually designed in a way to create space. And I like to look at it. I love an analogy you might notice. But, you know, like a luggage bag, you know, when you get like that little expander, I was like, these are just my expander zippers. They did what they needed to do. We pack

that luggage in. We're good to go. And now I look at them and I just, I'm so. like I do I don't aesthetically love them I don't think that's going to happen and I think that that's okay I feel very neutral about them but I'm so fucking proud like I'm proud of their purpose but like aesthetically you face that every day I make it's pretty I make them gorgeous out there every day it's almost like you're baiting people to be like say some shit but it's true that you're normalizing it in a way that if no one ever people think that stretch marks are bad because no one sees them yeah like if every girl had stretch marks, it would just be like, I actually, there was a rap, right? With Kendrick Lamar, it's like, show me something natural with stretch marks. And I remember, like,

loving it. Yes. And being like, yeah. But it's so true. And the thing is we, a lot of times now when people are starting to share these things, they share it very apologetic. Like, it's very like, yeah, like I'm dealing with it. Like I'm, and that's very real invalid. But I'm kind of past that work now. So now I'm like, I'm looking at other girls' content and they have like their jeans open and they're standing like very sultry and like the doorway. And I'm like, fuck it, I'm going to do that. And I think that the more that people are realizing that like having flaws, like quote unquote flaws on your body or differences in your body cannot take away your sexuality and your attractiveness. And I wore a t-shirt in the bedroom with my now husband who never pushed me to like change that. But. at some point I started like taking it off and like allowing him to touch me and I just realized that it was just it wasn't robbing it was robbing me of intimacy and the ability to be held but it was robbing it from him too who wanted to give that we have to take this barrier down that says because you have this you are not attractive you are not sexy that is not something that they want to

see because sometimes all they care about is seeing you and touching you and embracing you and when we allow ourselves that. And you didn't trick him. Like, you didn't trick him. But I did walk backwards. I did walk backwards out of the bedroom for a long ass time because I was like, oh my God, I have to sell you late on my ass. I would start a conversation and like be like walking out of the bathroom like you're walking out of the bedroom like backwards. I mean, it's true. We do trick man a lot. But like at the end of the day, it's like your energy that they love. And like a no man is going to see your beautiful boobs and then be like, wait, is that a stretch are going to need that. And if they do, fuck that dude. Yeah. Seriously. They've got vainy dicks.

They can't come at us with anything. They don't, they have the most unattractive genitalia like that exists. Like even a vulva is beautiful in its own sense. It looks like a flower. It's a little flower. And they have these like vainy dicks and we like do things with them. And then here we are like, oh my God. Why am I straight? I ask myself all the time. All the time. It's true. Like we, but then we like feel so apologetic about, my husband has never apologized for a thing on his body. He's never felt a certain way. His body has like, as he calls it, ebbs and flows all the time. And I, my attraction to him is just so much more than that because at the end of the day, like you have to have a bomb ass personality to keep anybody around. Like you could be high, but like the personality of wet cardboard. So I'm not. I have some stretch marks and, you know, I have some cellulet and I've got some loose skin and probably some loose titties after this. But after this nursing sessions that I'm in. really it's so much the confidence and like if you guys have do not follow her you have to follow the birds papaya because her the way like I'm just like I'm like jealous almost I'm like the way that you have your body and you like embrace it so much like the love you have for yourself just radiates

now to go a little darker yeah where is your eating now because obviously stretch marks are kind of just one part of your relationship with your body and food yeah I mean it's in a really up place, if I'm going to be real honest. And I have been honest already about this. Postpartum is like the biggest identity crisis you can possibly go through, I think, because you, even if you're through healing and I have been, you know, I've stopped dieting. I've stopped weighing myself every day, obsessively trying to make myself smaller and really working on that. And then you get pregnant and it's, and I was like, okay, that's fine. Like, what am I going to gain? Like maybe 20 pounds. Like, it'll be fine.

Like, all these, like, old things start to come up. And these old fears start to come up. And then I was put, you lose control. You lose control. And then I was put on pelvic rest. I couldn't have sex and I couldn't exercise for half the pregnancy. And it was like, oh, my God, I'm not even going to be in shape. So it's just like, this was like the things I had to do to protect this child to, like,

have her be born. And when they're first born, I felt like, well, first of all, I did like a home birth in, like, a water tub in my living room. And I felt like just such a badass because I had so much fear around birth. And I just like faced it head on. So I came out of that being like, I'm a fucking warrior. Like I just push this. I'd look around and everybody be like, I just push this out of my body.

I was so about it. So I was like, look at this. This body is so cool. And then like that buzz wore off. And then I was like, oh, wait, like this is now my body. And it's just, it's, I'm 36 now. So last time I had a kid, it was 25. And my body looked really different then.

I hadn't gone through the disordered eating then. So then now to sit on this side of it and being like, whew, okay, I look really different. I have a lot more loose skin that I did before. I have no new stretch march, which is fine. But like it just, I had to go up not one size, but two size and clothes. And it was like everything that I had talked about, everything that I had preached about, you know, not letting your body be the priority of your personality, knowing that you were always more than a body showing up in that knowing that you don't get a second shot at any of this stuff so you need to show up every single day it was like okay we're going to make you real uncomfortable let's bring you back down let's humble thyself someone up there's laughing at you right and like now oh she thinks she figured it out

right but also you're a different mental place than when you were a 25 year old girl 100% yeah and you know like I had really, and I think this is, again, where we get so tripped up is we just expect, like we talk about body positivity and all the stuff and it's, it just feels like another fucked up thing I'm going to fail at, right? Like I'm not going to feel positive about my body. My goal here is to think less about it. My goal here is to show up and have a good time. I have been, I existed in a larger body throughout my youth and my teen years. So I got really used to relying on my personality and just like being, you know, sad and like lonely about the fact that I was the biggest girl in the room. Then I went so far to be obsessed with being the smallest person in the

room. So I've lived on both ends of the pendulum here. What I really want to do now is allow and understand that my body is a moving thing. It is not a statue. It is a fluid being. It's going to ebb and flow. I'm going to change a million times over. I can't go back to who I was before. I don't know what the future looks like for myself because I never would have predicted, you know, everything that happened in the pregnancy and how much it changed me and changed my body, all I can, but I don't want to miss this summer with my kids. Like, I don't want to not go to the beach with my friends. I don't want to not travel because I feel like I don't have the body to do it or I don't feel good enough to do it or maybe I'm a different size from my friends now.

All of these things that can kind of, you know, play in your head is making you feel unworthy. But, you know, when we talk about shame and the fact that it hides and it stays in dark places, I noticed even with my marriage, my husband, who has never commented on my body, anything negative or anything even like, oh, you look like a little different. He never says anything except for like, wow, your tits are huge because I'm breastfeeding. But he's never said anything. And yet I found myself like bringing clothes into the bathroom and changing. And it was like this subconscious thing I was doing.

And I was like, okay, I need to like come back to. earth with this and I was just like when you feel shame around what you look like it does impact everything so I just have that's where I'm out right now is like working into that why and really honestly listening to my own self and the things that I've said for years about like staying in this fight staying in this work understanding that you can't just like suddenly be okay with yourself it is not a destination you're going to just get through it is a constant work and a constant effort to check in with yourself. You don't own the situation. There is going to be variables. You're going to ebb and flow a million times in this life. How can you continue to show up and be

confident in who you are, understanding that your body is so secondary to that? Well, I was looking at your blog and you love doing this thing where you're like, this is worthy and this is also worthy. Because if you associate your body with like the amount that you can love yourself, it's, and you can't control it. Like we all have to understand we can't control it. Yeah. And further fucking more, you saying like, I don't want to love my body. I just don't want it to be controlling my mood swings. And it's similar to me where it's like, oh, if I have like a bad season on a reality TV show, it's going to control everything and how I feel about myself where it's like, no, we have to be able to detach. Yeah. If you stuff on a scale and it affects your mood and who you are that day,

the same if you check your likes that day or check how many followers you have, we create number measurements on like how good or bad we are. We actually create like a moral scale about how worthy we are to show up in the world based on these numbers and these like demographics that we have, our pants size, our scale size, our likes, our follows, our, there's just how many downloads we have. These are measurements. But the problem is that we also use these measurements all the time. It might be accountability. It might be, you know, your business structure. It might be all of those things. But it can be a really dangerous game to play. And I really like to compare it to, you know, when you go to like a liquor store, there's warnings about alcoholism. When you go to

a casino, there's warnings about gambling addiction. When it comes to dieting in your body, there is a lot of risk to it. But there is no warnings. Nobody's going to warn you about it. Yeah, they would like it's a very, it's a very, yeah, because it's a, what is it, like a 95% failure rate of diets and 25 to 30% of those who try diets will end up with a form of disordered eating or eating disorders. So we're talking about a low reward, very high risk. And every single one of us have tried a diet. Like every single one of us have gone down that path. And it hasn't impacted everybody. So some people can step on the scale and just be like, okay, that's just a number. We're just putting her down in a book or I don't know what we do

with it. Like I don't get the point, right? Like we're holding ourselves to a measurement trying to make ourselves more and more conform to what? Like it just, it really is something that I think is just I'm still thinking about. I'm still pondering about because I did have to step on the scale like during my pregnancy and afterwards and it messed me up, messed me up. Well, now we're getting existential because the whole thing is like we're in this life with no purpose. So if we can like convince ourselves like, okay, well, let's chase this.

let's chase these likes or let's like it makes you feel like you have a purpose but then with that it's this like downward spiral of like no there there is no purpose and you're just putting something like expectations just cause you to be upset and sad and living this result oriented life is so hard and i i mean i'm someone who'd suffered from disordered eating and i've i'm now in this place where like no one has a body like mine and like i love that it's almost but it's and it's not like I have like I have like I's body in the world. It's just like no one has my body and I'm proud of that. And then also I want to give it what it needs when it's hungry. And I want to also stop when I'm full. And it's it just in that really just like natural state and then not worry about it when I don't need to feed it. Yeah. No. And this is this is the the most real thing. When we talk about, you know, we talked a little bit on my podcast about how love is more action than it is feeling. But we, really apply that. When you step on the scale and you're a lower number, there is a reason why we feel a surge of happiness because it has been embedded there to make us feel like a lower

number or smaller size is a moral greatness. It shows that you have more control or more this or more that. But we're all, like there's this, there's this quote out there that says, even if we ate all the same foods and we exercise the same things, we would all look different. And we're all very, very different. And I found that through the experience of pregnancy to breastfeeding, it really has brought me back to a very similar place of, I need to listen when I'm hungry, you need to stop when I'm full. And it can be really hard to kind of go through that when your emotions are surging, when your hormones are surging, when your stress is surging, to really come back and be like, if I love this body and it's not a feeling of love, if I'm going to show up

an action, what does that look like? And actually, I feel like is empathy. Yes. Action is empathy. Once you can logically decide that you don't have to shit on yourself because of a number, and you could actually be empathetic to being like, wow, you made a human. Wow. You've been through so much. Because really at the end of the day, it's not a guy saying you're good enough. It's not a post with enough like saying you're good enough. It's you consciously deciding that like you love whatever is going on.

in the ups and the downs. Because if you only like yourself when things are going well, honey, boo, it's not, it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. And you're having to bring other people along on that, on that cycle, right? On that wave of, you know, when you feel good, you can have sex. And when you don't feel good, they shut off sex or you shut off going to the beach or your kids are like, why are, why are you not doing this with me? And you're like, well, because I, I don't feel good. Or, you know, how do you explain that away? Like, the repercussions and the ripple effects. And you hate yourself more because of that. Exactly. You're mad. You just don't get a redo. Yeah. And we just don't get a redo at this shit. So it's just like, you know what? Yeah, my body has changed. But I just, I know now. I know it too well because I sat on the sidelines for too much that I know now that I don't ever want to do that again. And so I will have to deal with those discomforts. I will have to deal with the fact that I look different from a lot of the girls that I see on Instagram or on the beach or anything like that. But like you, I nobody else is this body. And this.

is my body. And my body's worked really, really hard. Like, do you sometimes just, like, give, sometimes I give my body, like, its own personality. And I'm like, it must be so annoyed at me. Like, I have just put it through the ringer. Like, you can have this today. No, you may not. And I know you like this, but I have restricted you from it. And now I'm making you run for an hour because we had too many nachos. Like, oh, the behavior and the reward system that we do, like, our bodies are just like, okay, okay, okay, okay, we're doing it. Like, they're just, she's a tired bitch. Yeah, there are, she's a tired. She has been. through it she's seen it all and i also feel like as someone who suffers from depression at times

the hardest thing is like getting out of bed and for you being like i'm not going to go to the beach with my kids because it's you have to overcome that like brief uncomfortable sadness to then like ultimately your day would have been made with the kids because it would have been like forgotten yeah but also again then not feeling bad that you like missed that time because mommy needed to work through that shit yeah you've talked about like your work and your healing, when you suffer from anxiety or depression or whatever kind of battles you're facing, what is that work? Like, what is that healing that you've done? Or whether it's, you know, therapy, crystals, what is it? You know, I have always been a bit of an anxious

girl. Like, I didn't know that that's what anxiety was. I just thought I was a worrier. I thought that I just had a lot of worry about things. And I thought that was like super normal. And I also grew up in a family. I'm just really on top of everything. Yeah, I'm really good. bad could happen. I know. All it did was make me just do whatever everybody else wanted for me all the time, which is just like running your own circus. It's really, really hard to do that. But eventually, like, realizing that it was anxiety, I was like, okay. And I've had so many conversations like with my therapist about it. And then I had conversations with people who were like anxiety experts. I've kind of learned in certain ways to own. I think I just always assumed that other people just

didn't have the same things or that I was just alone in that. And then other people were just like wildly confident. And that's how they got up on stage and did things. And my voice is like shaking. The reality is I've learned to kind of step forward with a shaking voice, if that makes sense. Like just understand that this is part of who I am. I wake up with it. I'm worried for it. There is a lot of things out of my control. There's a lot of things that, you know, I wish to control. And sometimes that mind game, you know, takes over. my day. So I've a lot of empathy for myself and the way that my mind works. But I'd never, ever experienced depression until I was pregnant this last year. And let me tell you, like,

that was a journey and a half to admit during a time that you're supposed to be like the most happy and joyous. That's shameful. That I was just like went down this really dark place. And once again, like what I didn't realize was a lot of it had stemmed from things that I hadn't dealt with from, you know, my previous births, stuff that I just wasn't mentally prepared for in terms of like, yeah, like not being, you know, not being able to exercise, not feeling, you know, confident in certain things. And, and, you know, I was really worried for my career. I was really worried about having to be a mom and work. I didn't, I just didn't see space for myself and all of it. And I just got really, really sad. I got really depressed and got very detached from the

pregnancy and you know therapy is an amazing amazing thing and it's also really hard for me to say that sometimes I realize like that's such a privilege thing to have like not everybody has access to it but it took me it's a lot of talk therapy I think sometimes when we're we're faced with something you just kind of see the onion you don't see the layers of it right you don't understand the depths of it so you just see the onion and you're like well this is just what it is and you don't realize that like when you peel the onion you end up with a much small onion like you just end up with a very tiny little bit of something it doesn't mean it goes away it just means that you know you've dealt with all these layers that you can into into a compartmentalized

size that you can manage every single day it won't make you cry as much exactly and if you need to be on meds be on meds like i'm just i'm i just believe in building your toolbox because i think that we just we we think very black and white when it comes to mental health like you either you either are totally okay or you're not and the fact is most of us are just managing with the toolkit that we are developing, that we're learning about ourselves, that we've learned from other people, whether it's therapy, whether it's friends, whether it's something you did online, a book you read, whatever, that we have these new tools. And it doesn't mean that we're not anxious anymore. It just means that you can manage through it quicker. And it doesn't

mean that, you know, your depression's gone away. It just means that you now have the medication to cope with it. That's your toolbox, right? It looks different for everybody. And so we can't really make blanket statements about mental health because it really is so individual and back to like it being your own personal relationship love story takes a lot of paying attention and I think we're very good at I don't want to hear my thoughts I don't want to deal with this and just hearing everybody else that when you sit and you take time with yourself and your own thoughts it kind of honors that that time to heal through them and so yeah that's just it's been just such a fucked up journey the last like year and it's like I it's not even pandemic

It's just been emotionally, physically, mentally exhausting, and I'm really proud of it too because I just, without this year, I wouldn't be who I am today. And sometimes that's hard to admit because you don't wish bad things on yourself. But I like, you know, that whole saying like everything happens for a reason I don't believe in that, but I believe that good can come out of every situation. And I think that's just what I'm trying to do. It's just trying to elchemize the situations and the stories and the experiences into something good for myself also even darker i love i give you warning i'm like morning it's dark darkest darker darkness ahead as someone who's been divorced who then is in a place who is struggling with depression do you get anxiety about like oh i'm

not being the best person in this relationship or like not like as someone like right now i just got engaged. I'm dealing with one of the worst years in my life. And I'm like, wait, but this isn't me. Like, I swear I don't cry this much. Yeah. Yeah, no, I totally relate to that because there is like that bit of fear, like, am I unlovable in this state? And I think when I went through, obviously going through depression, giving birth, having this postpartum body, not really feeling myself sneaking around again when it comes to like how I dress and not letting my husband, you know, hold me in certain ways again. It changes you. I mean, it changes your dynamic. but I just, I don't know. There's this weird confidence that I have. I think at some point we need

to decide that we're lovable. We need to decide that we're worthy of that and then I just stop questioning it. It doesn't mean that the fears don't pop up sometimes where I don't have that, but I also have this, like if I ever, if my husband ever looked me in the face and said, I would like a divorce, I know how hard it is to say something like that. I know how much he must have gone through leading up to that. I wouldn't want it to happen. I would do everything I could to stop it. But at the same time, I honor so deeply who he is, and just as much as I honor so much who I am, that I would have no choice but to respect the hell out of him for making that choice, just as much as I would for myself. And that's what I mean when I say, like, divorce is an option

in our relationship because we wake up and we choose it. So if you know divorce is on the table all the time, you kind of, you kind of wake up and you serve the relationship. right you do what you can to not have that happen but not in an unhealthy way and i think that you know my husband was really worried that i would get mean and i he said that the one thing that he was really relieved about was watching me pregnant going through all that stuff he's like you got sad but you never got mean and he goes i was so grateful for that that you know we had that conversation afterwards and he said that really surprised him because just for the sheer amount of things he i think he just was waiting for me to combust and he's like but you you never got mean and

so he really took care of me and he struggles with like seasonal depression. So I think he just for the first time could see how hard it was. He didn't question it. He didn't make me feel small about it or silly about it. He just was like, no, that's, that's real. Like that just very validating. And I think once you validate each other in a relationship or like in any relationship with your friendships, anything, we all just want so badly to be validated in our experiences. And he did that for me. And so I felt like I could just relax and be myself. and not be like, I'm just so sorry, this is what I look like. And I'm so sorry, this is who I am. And I'm so sorry that we can't have sex. And I'm so sorry that I'm too tired to do anything else.

And I'm so sorry. Like, I just stopped being so sorry. And I just let myself, like, deal with how hard it was. Yeah. And it sounds like you guys have that empathy for each other because in a couple months, he might be struggling. And all you know is that you're there for him and you're showing up. And yeah, the love is through action like that. And I also feel like in my relationship during these hard times, like we've gotten so much closer because in my head I'm like oh this would make someone else who didn't really love me be like well this is sucks yeah it takes an emotional maturity and you know what there's something so sweetly intimate about letting somebody see your darkest parts about letting them into that space and sit with you in it and you can have real love I don't think if

they haven't seen your darkest parts I mean not to judge yeah levels of love but like there's something beautiful in being like, this is my gross shit that I've hid from everyone. Yeah. And my husband's really good at just making me laugh. So I feel like I'm similar to you. It's like if I can laugh my way through a dark situation, that pays off like 10fold. It just keeps me light in such dark times. And it's he's the best for that. Like honestly, the best. The one thing that we really suck at is fighting because we both are the same personality type that when we have an argument, we're both equally sad and stressed because we don't like being on the opposite sides of things. So we're like having a fight, but we're both like on the

verge of tears and we're both just like, this sucks so bad. And I just want to hug you and like you're the person that I go to when things are bad. So like why are we having this fight? Like I just, can you not be mad at me because I really need to have a hug? Like it's like a bit of that. But yeah. But again, not getting mean. It's like one of the biggest parts. We all know. When you show somebody your intimate parts, then you give them few. to tell you, to use that as a weapon against you, right? And so that's the part that I always have felt, yeah, we all know it in the middle of the fight, you know exactly what you could say to hurt that person more than anybody else in the world. And never choosing that is so important

because I've been that person before. I've been that person that's like, I will say anything to just break you down, to protect myself, to put up a wall. And instead, just choosing love, even in a time of what I will call passionate discussions instead of a fight. I love that so much. I have a lot of passionate discussions over the last year. They're great for you. They're just, they just teach you so much.

Just in a public place. Oh, yeah. I think it's time because I've already, I was like, let's talk for half an hour. No, we are getting into it.

We have one more final game that I'd like to play with you called the Seven Deadly Sins. seven deadly sins what are you greedy about i'm oh what am i greedy about leftovers do you like them cold or hot both i just really don't like it when somebody fucking throws them out or eats it oh yeah i'd burn a house down even though i have been guilty of eating people about this dinner that we made a few weeks ago and my husband threw out the leftovers because we thought I didn't want it. And like I brought it up for three days straight because I just mourned. I mourned it. It was like a big dinner. So you couldn't just like redo it. It was a thing. It's so funny because Des like isn't a big leftover person where it's like an art form, you know,

where you're like accumulating things throughout the day. And then you can have like these fun lunches. And he's like, are you sure that's still good? It's been there for a week. And I'm like, even if I, if it goes right through me and I have diarrhea for the next five hours, worth it, don't worry about me. And don't come from me again. Yeah, exactly. Who are. are you envious of? Elena Davies. She's so funny. Like, she just is so witty. And her boobs are just, like, they dance.

Like, she has the ability to make her boobs dance. I don't know anybody else that I would say that about. I love how quick you went there. I'm jealous of Elena Davies, too, and I need to have her on the podcast because we've been planning on it. You two together would just be. It's a lot. It's a lot of stupid energy.

Even when you're with her and, like, who she is naturally. is just so quick and so witty and I think of funny things like 10 minutes later so when I see somebody who like gets it right in the moment I'm like damn she's just on fire she's so funny doing a virtual beer pong tournament that Bailey orchestrated that was our first time so and like we are both highly competitive people we were making each other laugh so hard I think I can't remember I think I ended up winning but I shouldn't have won and then we just started joking like I was like I hope you don't cry tonight and then she was like shitting on me back and I was like wait I like love her who oh no what besides leftovers and what are you gluttonous about like what do you overindulgent um like a classic

vanilla cake like a vanilla with a vanilla confetti cake from my childhood like a like yeah that would be something I can't like if it's in the house I will get so sick because I will just like I love it I could eat chips I could fuck off. People don't talk about cake enough. cake is the best people don't talk about cake people don't talk about how vanilla people like oh vanilla is plain vanilla is fucking amazing and that's why always ask for confetti because then I feel like people don't judge me when I say confetti cake because vanilla sounds vanilla but confetti like it's like a dunkeroo I mean the like nuances of the flavor of vanilla don't get me started so good when was the last time you experienced extreme wrath your anger extreme wrath um this week something happened to a friend

of mind that a rumor was started that was completely false online. And I just felt so angry because it was so out of everybody's control. Nothing could be done. It was like a troll who did it. And I just felt I felt very angry because it was my friend. If it had to happen to me, I'd just be crying. But because it happened to somebody I loved, I was so angry. Yeah. You're like, who do I have to fight? Yeah. It's funny because now being in this industry, a lot of the negativity starts from people who have like a personal vendetta against you or like someone who's been cyber bullying you for a long time who like finally finds the right thing for people to like be mad at you about and it never is coming from like a good place of like growth or like accountability yeah it's a lot of just like

hate from someone with their own stuff and that's why we go to therapy that's why we go to therapy I don't naturally get angry though like when I even like that that would be more of an upset I'm deeply uncomfortable with the emotion of anger I don't do well with it. Oh, yeah, it fucks me up. And it's that attachment, like, anything can trigger it. And it's, it's a real loss of control where you, yeah, you never feel better after getting pissed off. It's never like a good release. Like a cry I get a release from. Yes. Yes. That's why I have like angry tears. Well, I'll just be crying and everything. Why are you crying and sad? I'm like, no, this is frustration. Yes. And sometimes I will like, when I feel like I need that, I'll watch like

a really sad a movie about like a dog dying or I'll listen to breakup music even though I'm in a happy marriage and I'll just be like yeah I miss him so much I don't know why but it just like makes me feel like I can get the emotions out and sometimes that like takes any anger with it right like when I can just like yeah because that's usually where it goes it goes into a sadness that's good because I hate any negative feeling so when I get sad like I can't look at anything or listen to anything but I think I need to work on like fully feeling it so it doesn't just stick around for like three months. When was the last time you were a sloth? So like did not do anything all day. Oh, not since I was pregnant. And I, man, there was something so nice about that.

I'm going to really, really miss the excuse of, sorry, I can't. I'm pregnant. Like I, when you're like nine months pregnant and you're so uncomfortable and I would just lay there. Like I would just lay there. Like, I would just lay there. I remember when I first gave birth and right afterwards, I, like, stood up off the couch. And my husband goes, oh, my gosh, look at you. You just stood up. Because genuinely, I couldn't anymore at the end. Like, he would have to, like, lift me from everything.

And we were just like, oh, my gosh, I just stood up from the couch. Like, we were so proud of me. And so when you have to live in a way that you have to ask for help to get up, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was very sloth-like. and I loved it. I'm like, I've always been excited to be pregnant because I feel like I can like eat so much.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm feeding a human. Hello. Yeah, I do need a double cheeseburger. It's double. I have like the worst food allergies and by some miracle of the world when you're pregnant,

a lot of people can lose those allergies. I was one of those people. That's crazy. I could eat everything and I did. My first thing that I went to though, because I get a really bad like celiac rash where I get if I eat gluten it'll like break me out in like a massive rash and I was like as soon as I realized that I wasn't having the impacts of it I was like oh my god I'm going to have some craft dinner and that's what I did so craft dinner as in like mac and cheese

yeah in Canada we call it craft dinner yeah but not just any it was the shapes like I it had to be the shapes when I was a kid it was Mario Kart and then there was like never like a Disney version. Now it's like the alphabet. I guess they're trying to teach everybody things all the time now. But I like, for me it goes shapes, then it goes. Yes. Yeah, shapes, spirals, shells, regular. Like that's the order of how good the noodles are. Important. I agree. I mean, it's debatable, but like I respect your opinions. Thank you. Final question. Do you have like a celebrity crush? Like, when was the last time you lusted over someone besides your puppy? Stephen Gleck.

Oh my God. Like I, yeah. I heard that he's like the sweetest guy. Did you ever hear him talk about his wife? I don't want to because I'm in love with him. True, true. He has a full monologue about how he fell in love and like he is the sweetest, cutest, cutest, most amazing man's. You're great taste.

He's good taste. You know what? The second I see him on a screen, it's similar to like Pete Davidson. Like that kind of like humor. that's so good that the second you see them, I'm just immediately in a smile. And I'm one of those people that I am very sexually attracted to funny people. So that's just, I'm just so drawn to it. So whenever it comes up, I'm like, I could care fucking less about washboard abs. Give me Stephen Colbert or like a really funny guy. And I'm just like all over the place for it. There's nothing more

unattractive than a guy who like cares about his abs. Somehow that is the most true statement I've heard. Okay, final question. To wrap this whole thing up for my little devils, they want to know, what advice would you leave them with on how to cope with your hell when you're going through it? What do you do? Pay attention. Like, start, like, it's not just paying attention to your darkness, but paying attention to every tiny little thing that makes you feel good. And if you can collect those thoughts before a time really knocks you down, you're going to be so prepared. Because you can't just say it's, you know, a good soak in a tub or a good walk with a friend. It's going to be so different for everybody. If you can just take the day to day and be like, oh, I love this straw. I love this,

the texture of this paper. This blanket is my favorite blanket. You're building up a repertoire of things that you're just going to dive into in a moment that you needed. And I think for me, that's been my biggest key things, knowing the right people to talk to, knowing the right things that de-escalates you, knowing how to disengage, knowing how to just make yourself in the tiniest ways happy. Maybe it's a slurpy from 7-Eleven or an icy, you know, like all a good podcast. Maybe it's a really sad movie. It's just whatever that is, only you can figure that out. So just pay the fuck attention to who you are. It's funny. No one's ever answered like that. And I feel like you were speaking to me because I'm someone who is raised as like a people

pleaser of just like you know what do i have to do to make everyone happy and then they don't teach you in school that like you need to find your own joy and like it's and i never like was a fan of things you'd say what's your favorite color i don't give a shit like i just didn't care about what i liked like what do you want me to say i'll say that yeah all i liked was like people liking me so it's like finding those little things because no one could take away your chai latte no no one could take away that blanket when the things go up and down and No one can take away the things that you provide for yourself and your joy. So, Sarah, you are so amazing.

This was better than I could have even imagined. We covered so many things. We covered so many things. Incredible. Where can people follow you, watch you, buy your stuff? Give me the goods. My will house is definitely Instagram. So you can find me there at the Birz Papaya.

I'm one of those people that still has an old school blog name as their handle. But you can find me there. Blog is the same thing. Bertspyia.com. my podcast is the papaya podcast and yeah but definitely come along on the wheelhouse i'm in my stories like all day long i basically narrate my entire life um it's just what i love to do it's an extent i feel like my life is there and then um on my arm is like a camera just watching it and experiencing it with people so i've loved being a storyteller online but doing it for 12 years just instagram made me

have a much quicker way to do it so yeah i would honestly i love it i stay in my community half of my days. I spend in DMs and comments. So if you come and hang out, hopefully we get a chance to connect. So yeah. That is so awesome. And I'm, I think all your success has been for so many different reasons, but you're a hustler. You're the realest bitch. And we love you. So talk to us later in hell. And thanks for coming, Sarah. Thank you. Bye. Thank you.