Berner Phone - Shan Boodram: Dating With Dominance & Love Addiction

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Shan Boodram is the Internet’s most sought-after, certified sex educator, dating coach and relationship expert. She opened up about her open marriage, how to date with dominance, the love story in your head, dating narcissists, and getting what you want.  https://birthdate.co/discount/BERNING15 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/appSupport this podcast: https://anchor.fm/berninginhell/support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What is great sex for you? Oh, okay. I like that you're getting back to the question. You're like, we're deviating. I have ADHD. We're like, I'll go here and then I'll finish the sentence. But then you're like, we're going back. I think great sex is sex that I think about three weeks later and shudder.

Like so. Welcome to burning. Okay, guys, what's up? I'm your host, Hannah Burner, and we are with Shan Boudram, the queen. I thought you were going to do Bouty. I was going to do Bouty, but then I got nervous. Okay, that's fine. That's fine.

We're with S.H. Booty. Ooh, that's like when you write your next book. Your next book, Shaboo. Shaboo. Okay. We're with Chan. I'm just making up a bunch of nicknames to increase my intimacy early on. But you're the Internet's most sought after intimacy expert, which, like, makes me

nervous because I have intimacy problems, but we'll get to on Chance podcast. Certified sex educator, dating coach, like, just like, very smart. A lot of YouTube subscribers, a lot of, you've been featured fucking everywhere. You're also, girls got to eat her. My friends and they're obsessed with you. Raina said she wants to make out with you. She just wanted to tell me, let me tell you that. And you're the host of the new podcast lovers and friends. I am the host, the new podcast lovers and friends. I'm a podcaster now. They took a very long time. It's funny because YouTube I feel like you've created so much fucking content there and now I guess podcasting gets to be a little more free flowing maybe it gets to be a lot more intentional I think because you know what

with YouTube you're just it's just thumbnails and titles yeah so it's all clickbait yeah podcast like no you choose me it's like an actual relationship oh my gosh I think YouTube is a toxic relationship where you're trying to constantly like one up yourself you're being inauthentic you're putting on this front but podcasting feels like no like you said yes to me and I'm going to show you who I really it's like real long form content that people are truly committed and they trust you oh i love it so much because yeah youtube i feel like some of your best videos are not necessarily the most informative or interesting ones oh for sure they're the click beady ones yeah and you got to play the game i read some article where you said love is addictive like food and some of the food is unhealthy or like

fast food can you explain that to me like is everyone a little bit of a love addict you kind of rolled a couple anecdotes in there, which I love because it can do too then. So scientifically, love is described as a neurological condition. In essence, that means that it's not a feeling because feelings are, you might feel happy right now, but then in 20 minutes, you're going to feel differently. So love is constant. So it's actually more of a drive than it is of an emotion. So we have a drive to love and to be loves. And this also has roots in the evolutionary principle because love is a function of survival because as humans we're not necessarily the strongest or the fastest swimmers or the best runners but when we get together and we stick together we obviously conquer the

world so love is a function that keeps people together long enough to ensure the survival of not just each other but of a potential offspring and so it's a commitment device that is very useful um in the wild but in a free world where we don't necessarily need love it could actually lead us to make some unhealthy decisions and stick to them, even though it isn't the best fit for us. This is some national geographic shit that I'm so for right now. I think it's something that I will say to my kid, like very early on, like when she gets of age, just imagine you walk into a room, right? And there's cocaine and there's heroin and there's LSD, there's a bunch of drugs. The first drug you choose, you're going to stick to

that drug, not because it's the best drug, but because it's a drug and it's addictive. So your first love, that devotion, that obsession, that like, I'll never find anybody else. This is the only person for me. It's like, that's because you only tried heroin so far. There's many other options, and there's healthy drugs. I'm getting it's herbal analogy. There's healthy options for you, but that to be said, that don't trust that just because you feel that that means this is a healthy partnership for you. And that's where the likemanship to food is, right? Like, what I want to do for sex and love, I think what is what happened with food like 10, 20 years ago. Because I don't know how old you are

But when I was growing up The five healthy food groups Had nothing to do with what's actually healthy for you No. Like you need a bunch of bread in your life And like no fat Yeah and like cereal is a part of a healthy diet Yeah And now it's like avocado to the face

Yeah yeah Low fat, low sugar And we didn't really exactly that So we didn't have an awareness Of how to actually choose healthy food for us And so as a result of that We were driven to eat foods That were more comforting than they were actually healthy

But now people have an awareness of the difference between like healthy fats and unhealthy fats and sugars that are good for you and sugars that are manufactured and designed to get you addicted. So we have a better consumer awareness. We can choose better food. I think with love and relationships, we need the exact same awareness. Oh, so like, so like sugar, like processed foods are like tall guys who haven't been to therapy. Yes. Got it. Exactly that. Got it. And that's the thing. I think when I was growing up, it was this notion that if you're attracted to somebody, that means something. If somebody hurts you but you still want to be with them that's like the cosmos telling you that this is your destiny

that you guys should stick it out and i'm like no that's just fucking addiction it has nothing to do like if i quit cigarettes i'm going to long for cigarettes not because we're destined to be together forever but because there's addictive properties in that sig well it is truly like a dopamine hit when you're falling in love so it makes sense like and you could get i really believe you can get addicted to anything like you can get addicted to like highlighter makeup like you could get addicted to anything that you love anyone can overdo something so i feel like it's important that you know the difference between when something is just like a high but it's also important to note that like this isn't like any addiction like they have like neurons like scans of the brain and the brain in love especially

the brain while having sex is identical to a brain that's at the peak of heroin use so there are definite linkages in terms of like the reward that your brain is giving you for being in love again because of the implications it has for your survival is really strong. So just that to be said, don't trust just because you're drawn to somebody that that means that they're a healthy or right choice for you. That's beautiful because, and it also makes you feel less crazy and that like we're human. It's a human need to be like, oh, this person's attracted to me. I want to be connected to someone.

I want to be in love. Is that you? Is that your personal mantra? I want to get shows. I like people. I like people who like me. It's, but I also, I joke a lot in my stand-up about Disney and how Disney teaches you to be attracted to, like, the prince, like, the guy who's going to save you. And they're always, like, narcissistic d-bags.

And I, like, go into it how they're all fuckboys. But I learned, and you said this in one of your articles, that it's not about, like, who a guy is on paper. It's how they make you feel. Yes. And that shook me to the core. That shook me to the core, because I remember having, like, growing up, you just won, like, impress your parents, impress your friends, and be like, look at this hot guy. He has fame or he has money or he has smarts.

Who gives a fuck if he's not right for you? It's a puzzle piece and it's going to just not fit. Yeah. But also acknowledging, like, I dated this guy and he was wildly successful, really good looking, very charming, super cool. But for whatever reason, when I was around him, I was uncomfortable, I was nervous, I was shy, I was awkward, I felt stupid. stupid. Like in reflection of this person who had all these great, you know, listables, I didn't like

myself. And that maybe was a signifier for me to do some more self work or maybe just in general, we weren't compatible. So instead of focusing on what I wanted externally someone else to be, I focused on how I wanted to feel when I was around that person. Because it's actually more important that you're turned on by yourself, that you like yourself and the relationship than you like the other person. Wow. I do, I do 100% agree because it's hot that a hot guy likes you, But if you don't like yourself with that hot guy, then you're going to eventually just be empty. Exactly. It's exhausting.

Because, I mean, you want to be attracted to somebody else, but the greatest love of all, the most important love of all is self-love. So that's the one that I want to preserve and I prioritize more. So instead of, like, the external list of what I want someone else to be, I do an internal list of how I want to feel. Oh, my gosh. In your engagement. Is that different for you? In your engagement. In the person, you're engaged with.

I love the host coming out. need on me. I love it. I mean, did you notice a difference in how you feel about yourself in this relationship versus other relationships? A thousand percent. But I, that person, like I was an athlete, I was always like looking at results. I was very competitive. So I thought dating was the same way where like, okay, it's find the best guy. And I find myself in that situation where this guy I was with, I enjoyed being with his roommates more. I enjoyed spending time with my friends more. And And then when I spent time with him, like, I didn't feel funny. I didn't feel smart.

I didn't even feel, like, wanted. But he said he loved me, and he wanted to be with me. And I thought I was self-sabotaging it. I thought I, like, I had all this anxiety, like, you're just ruining this because you don't think, you're afraid of the light, you're afraid of the positivity, but it's like, no, he's not right for you, and that's okay. Yes. And with this, my fiancee, it's funny because my parents were like, we've never.

Do she saying that? Yes. My fiance The first like two months I couldn't I'd be like boyfriend And people be like You're lying

You're engaged I'm like I'm not gonna say fiance It sounds like stuck up And annoying But now people be like If you say fiance One more fucking time I'm like

Beyonce fiance But he My dad was like We haven't seen Hannah Be more herself But you know what That's complicated too Because it's like

He's a mirror And I'm being fully myself So I've had to face more shit with him because my sister, I did an episode on change in a relationship, like, should you change who you are to fit the relationship that you're in? And my sister said, I've never seen you be less yourself in this relationship. And it's a good thing. Well, maybe it is yourself, but it's a side of yourself that you haven't been letting out. Yes. I mean, also, too, it was like forcing necessary changes in me to be more empathetic, to be more calm, to be more connected with somebody else's experience and feelings. Because I can just tend to be. be like here's how I feel here's what I want here's what I'm doing and then not be mindful of how that impacts other people's experience around me but when I met Jared I because he's so deeply

in tune with everybody else's feelings all of a sudden I was like oh there's other people on this planet let me like consider what they're going through well saying I myself is such a complicated thing because with does I've never apologized more in a relationship other relationships I'd be like oh I pissed you off then go find someone else I don't need you bitch Like, I literally would be like, okay, cool, I don't fucking need you. Like, I had such a wall up where Des, I will literally, even when I'm not in the wrong, be like, I'm so sorry. I didn't see the situation right. I love you so much.

Like, I actually care to make it work with him. And with him, he saw my, like, most vulnerable sides very early on. Like, I don't show that much emotion. I'm very like. What does that mean that you cried? Like, please don't leave me. It's funny. I was crying, but about my own shit.

Like I was on a reality TV show and I we wanted four dates. I went on a reality TV show. He wasn't allowed to see me and I was just calling him every night. I'd call him. You've been on four dates and then you went on the show? Yep. Like just real life. I was going on dates with him.

Wasn't he not allowed to be part of your reality on the show? He was, we had to, because it was COVID, it was a plan that we were going to be in this house. And he was like, go to your thing. Like, we'll see what happens. I calls him every night. I would cry in the beginning. I was dealing with like really intense drama. So he's dealing with me in this like really,

weird social situation. Did you guys have an awareness of each other before the four dates or it was like date one? We kind of did. That's helpful. He were both in the comedy space and we found out we both were in Long Island and he'd DM me. And when I was calling him, I'd like cry, which was so not me. Like I'm so used to being like the cool girl who's just fun and effortless and goes

with anything, which isn't fully who I really am. And then I'd calm me down. Then we'd have phone sex. and then we just get to know each other for like three hours and we do that like every night how long the phone sex lasts you mean like in the moment or months was

like in the moment oh in the moment so how long are these phone sessions oh it was it was fun because we're both like comedians so we love talking so we love the like talking part but they were also cameras so I'd be like hiding from the cameras like I'd go in the laundry room

it was the weirdest situation or I would just like walk past people and go in the bathroom and they'd be like what are you doing I'm like don't worry about it and so it was kind of secret which is kind of hot. It's super hot. It's like having sex to your parents' house.

Yeah. Exactly. Except all of America might eventually hear. But it was, I don't know, we'd be like maybe like 10 minutes. And, but it was funny because after it, then we still didn't want to leave your shoulders. 10 minutes.

Just being crazy for 10 minutes. And yeah, it was this like intense time where he saw this like, I joke in my stand up that I was crying every night. And he's like, that's wife you, material, that's what I want. But what's funny too is I've dealt with the narcissist, I've dealt with the toxic shit, I finally was in a good place in my career. So when he was really like upfront that he was into me, I was like, I've dealt with love by me. Like I, I didn't trust it.

So he was the one that had to kind of be like, hey, like, I'm in this. And he was the one who was like, I played some games a little, just a test. And he was like, if you want to play games, that's cool. I'm not interested. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. So he kind of through me and I also didn't really want to have a boyfriend at the time so it was a spin okay you turned the shit on me and you knew it I loved it it's very beautiful but I saw YouTube video that said you and Jared had a non-traditional engagement our engagement was pretty average but I mean I think you mean because we were an open relationship maybe maybe it was just the title it was the click rate title wasn't non-traditional engagement non-traditional marriage maybe we have

The engagement, I mean, he got on one knee. So I think non-traditional engagement would be that like, he was flying above me or something like that. He got on one knee and he handed me a ring. So I'm like, that's pretty standard. Or imperfect way to get engaged. Oh, yes. I think, yes, that's definitely, and you're going on the almost 30 podcast today.

Yeah, yeah. So I did this episode for my podcast with them about pressuring your partner to propose. So I pressured like a fucking power washer. It was pretty like, so I think that that was. the imperfectness of it but also the way that we got engaged it was so us because it just he was trying to get proposed to me maybe like an hour and a half before I realized because I was in a fight with somebody else in my brain so I was like not even picking up what he was putting down so it was kind of a cool thing for us but so you actually were surprised I was surprised wow because I feel like

people don't talk about how engagements are actually not as like romantic as you'd think a lot of the time like a lot of the time the girls like this is the ring I want this is how I want you to do it take me on the strip and do it and I know he's going to do it and he does end they're like check thank you but I kind of love the surprise factor it was a mix of both though because I talk about this in the episode like the Ali Wong factor when you ever watch her special love Ali Wong where she talks about that of like you know I was so surprised when my husband proposed because I'd only been pressuring him for six months and so that was kind of our story of like maybe six months before of being like when what huh huh and then there was a time that I really put it in my brain

that he was going to propose like I was I pictured the entire thing you manifested that shit I manifested that shit but the thing about manifestation sometimes it actually happen in real life like you just manifest it and then it doesn't occur at all so that's kind of what happened and so I had worked myself so much into this was the day that on the drive home I lost it I lost it because we were driving home it's like what do you want to go get to eat and I was like I'm not hungry and then he was like what's your problem and I just unleashed that basically it was like my I was working on a TV show at the time and it was our last taping and he made a really big stink about wanting to be there and then like wanting to be there like ahead of time and he usually comes and

it just felt like it would be the right time to do it and so I thought I wasn't going to be surprised because I had had this moment where I was like you basically have ruined it for me yeah even if we do get engaged it will never be and this is all in your head like this is all in my head yeah this is all you kind of uh yeah it was an imperfect so you're driving back you freak out I cried for the entire night. I cried so much, my eyes were puffy the next day. And he had to sit and watch the entire thing. But then I think a couple months later, maybe a month later,

something like that, he proposed. At that time, I wasn't expecting it. So it was nice. What if he was? And he's like, I feel like she knows. I'm going to wait two months. I mean, maybe that's what he did. And I think kind of what made it not that,

like I looked crazy when they proposed to me. Like I had on sweatpants and glasses. So I didn't see myself the way that I, I saw myself getting engaged. like, it's my TV show. Full makeup. I've got full glam on. Like, yes.

Lighting. Exactly. And he was like, now I'm going to wait until you look like your breath smells bad and then I'm going to do it. He's cute.

He wanted like you raw. Maybe. To backtrack for people who don't know you are an open relationship. I don't know like the details about it. Can you tell me if you've been

in an open relationship before and how you guys navigated to like be in one? Yeah, it just kind of came to a place started off as fuck buddies. Let me just say that. I always make the distinction of fuck buddies and friends of benefits because I just gotten out of a long-term, unhealthy, long-distance relationship. And during that time, I've gone to school for sexology.

Oh, thank you. So I was learning all this cool things about sex and how to be sexual. But as you probably know, an unhealthy relationships, you either, A, don't have sex or B, it's really not great sex. So I was learning all these things, but I had no one to practice on. So when I got out of that relationship, I was like, I am too fucking broken to get back with somebody. I am a mess right now. I was on the brink of being deported from the country. I was like, there's no way.

Oh, yeah, she's Canadian. There's no way that I'm in an emotional state to partake in a connection with somebody. Why do people say that like toxic relationships, the sex is great? Maybe, I don't know, maybe it could be in the beginning. But I think that there's so much, especially in a long-term one, so much resentment is built up. So there's so much resentment. And then sex became a power tool of withholding of, like, Like, I'm not going to.

I've been there. Yeah. I mean, in my particular case, he would withhold for me because he had other partners. And so. Did you know about them? Yeah. You know, I can say yes and no. Like, I think I caught him cheating on me eight times.

So. And it wasn't open. No, it was not open. No, it was not open at all. But, I mean, I can always, like, look back to myself and say, I also knew the reputation before. Yeah. And this is where I say, like, the cold cosmic thing, never really buy into that story because

my ex was somebody that I had a huge. crush on in high school. And so in my 20s, when we got together, it was like, this is the story. This is it. Oh my gosh. The love story in your head affects a lot, I feel like. And it does because you write the ending. And then you'll do things in the moment to suffice the ending that you created at the very beginning. And so you find yourself going completely off script of who you are because you think you're staying on scripted with the story is supposed to be. And then it becomes this whole shitty mess. I have kind of a crazy metaphor, but I, when I was in L.A., I did a podcast episode with this girl

India Oxenberg who was part of the nexium cult beautiful name you like have to be interesting if your name's India I feel like The last name too actually is gorgeous So she was in a cult And she was talking about it And I joke that like I think I could easily be a part of a cult Like I'd be convinced and I do think that

It is similar to like being in a toxic relationship Because you'd be like why would you stay with a guy who cheated on you eight times Why would you do all this stuff and it's like no because in my head, I believed it was good for me. I believed it was like my purpose. I wanted it to work. I didn't see the red flags because I wanted it to be my story. So it like really is so easy for you to stay in things if you decide that it's worth it for you.

Oh, 100%. I mean, and I always find it really interesting because men in particular are really good manipulators. So there's, I went through a period of time where I was researching dark psychology a lot. I was researching pickup artistry a lot. I'm like, it's so crazy because. These are things that I'm reading about and I can learn to do through literature. I don't think my ex was like sitting down and reading the art. They just know how to do it.

The love bombing and stuff. Yeah, but I think maybe it might be trial and error or watching other people do things. And I'm not trying to genderify this. I'm sure everybody, you know, has the capacity to do this. But maybe just societally the way that men are conditioned, they learn that they can get the results that they want. And I say results in air quotes because if the result that you want is to get people a shitty experience with you and to make people hate the experience of being connected to you, but be connected to you, then you get what you want. But you can have multiple partners who are all exclusive to you

and you're exclusive to none by doing these very certain particular tactics and techniques. So my ex was really good at being manipulative. So I can look back and understand why, you know, I stayed for so long. But definitely the cult thing is a perfect analogy. Thanks. I've spent four days in LA and I'm like, I like culting crystals.

So then an open. relationship was this the first time yeah tell me what the fuck buddies more like um we got together at a time that i was just not ready to be with somebody in that way but i learned all this great stuff about sex and i wanted to try it on somebody so i went through this phase where i was just you found a beautiful man too multiple i would just bring dudes over who i thought were hot and i'd wear sports broad and sweatpants and play biance and make out and be like do i want to go further with you or not. And that was also a great time of my life because that's what I realized, like, you can receive oral sex and do nothing else. I think as a woman, we're always thinking we have to

be the one to give more sexually. But I was like, no, no, I can just receive. I can just get licked and then send the person on their way. And that's the night. So I think I was just doing that really enjoying the power of being sexual and the pleasure that was giving me and also the space it was giving me to heal myself emotionally. And when I met Jared, I just knew that he was the one that I'm like, oh, you're my fuck buddy. I remember because he felt safe with him. I mean, not that. No, I don't give a fuck about all that.

He was great in bed and he was authentic and he was where I was at sexually. So I remember he was fingering me and I looked down at him. And the look on his face was as if he was composing a beautiful sonnet. Like he was really feeling at the moment. And I'm just so accustomed or had been accustomed to being around men in particular who you could tell just watch a lot of porn. So a lot of their sexual responses felt very automated. Like, oh, I've seen that in a porn before.

Like they're replicating what they saw. Exactly. It's so rare to see somebody who I felt was genuinely feeling their way through the moment and genuinely present with me and then responding to me real time. And you can't orgasm if you're not in the moment. So if he's in the moment, that helps, I feel like.

It does. Especially if you're feeling his energy really strongly. Yeah. And it was just, I don't know, I had a great time with them and then we had great sex for a long time. And then we evolved into friends of benefits because we started to integrate our lives. And then we were friends of benefits and he needed somewhere to stay for a couple weeks.

I was like, come stay with me. And we just had the best like two weeks of my life. And I remember he found a place to live and he was about to sign the papers. And I was like, yeah, but like, what if you don't leave? And then he was like, yeah, like, what if you just keep living here? And then he was like, I would love to. And so at that point, we had still. been dating other people. We had this really great connection that was, I think a lot of us,

you know, for what I do for a living, I'm very flirtatious and I like exchanging other people. I like learning. I like talking to men. So I love the fact that I got to do that while still having great sex with somebody. And he also really loved the fact that he got to be flirty and out there. So we moved in together and we're like, we don't want to change our relationship status, but we should tell people that we're something because they can't be like, I live with my fuck buddy. seem right yeah so then we're like ah like what what can we say like what are we and so that's how we came up with a term open relationship it seemed like he was your partner but sexually and flirtatiously you're okay with him doing other things but after and you're doing other things but you'd been cheated on

and you know the ageal question is like how do you not get jealous a compersion um I will say to be honest to be a thousand percent this is a thing that like I battle with online a lot too is that our relationship is open but neither one of us have had sex with somebody else so we have maybe flirted I've gone on dates before I went through a period of time of like seeing somebody consistently for a bit but it never crossed that barrier and I think similarly for him like he's had like singular experiences that's never crossed that barrier so it might be easier for me to answer this question than somebody who has had a partner who had a whole other girlfriend or a whole other boyfriend but I think for me it's like compersion like I just feel joy in knowing that he's happy like just the same way that if he goes out with his friends he has a great night he usually comes home really energized you know and excited to be around me so I feel like that's the what we've experienced when we have been open and we also like consider ourselves to still have an open relationship because it's not closed but since I've had a baby or got pregnant either one of us have like dated or gone outside so very interesting and so you could like make out with people yeah I could do whatever I want he can

do whatever he wants so it's okay so at first it's like oh i thought maybe you might do this because you want to make sure he knows like he can if he wants whatever but it's almost like you have the ultimate trust in your connection emotionally i like i guess tricky in that though because i don't want to rest my you know sense on like he could but he doesn't want to yeah because then when he does what does that mean like i'm doing something wrong It just probably has more to do with the connections that he is or isn't getting to make out there in the world. And I think that that's our thing of like, how do we not personalize the fact that you might feel attraction to other people? It has nothing to do with me or nothing to do with you, which has to do with your experience as a human being.

So his experience as a human being right now isn't being reflected in that way. But if it is, I really hope that I have the strength not to take it personal. And in the past, I have been able to not take it personal. And I pray for that strength going forward. this is fascinating. I love it. You also just said like you guys have great sex. Can you define what great sex is? Yes, let's stop. Perfect. Just like there for you to like do whatever you want to. Like we're both like equal partners in the experience. Choking your partner while you're on top is awesome and super hot. And it feels very femme fatale. And then also too, I think it's it's they there's an awareness that they could just get you to stop. Because I feel like if I'm being choked like hey man this could really go the wrong way for me. If I'm choking you. Do you like any? Do you like any? Do you like any? joked? It's very like in the culture right now.

There are people who they have to, like oxygen deprivation can help heighten your senses and give you a stronger orgasm. So I know people who even while masturbating need to deprive themselves with oxygen, even if it is like heathing

or holding their breath. So if you, it could be like your recipe for a good orgasm. It's not necessarily my recipe for a good orgasm. I haven't necessarily found that feeling like I'm about to pass out makes me feel more sensitive. I've like too much anxiety for that.

Yeah, maybe. I don't know, yeah, but I can see how it makes sense. But I love your scientific approach to things because I actually, the first time I masturbated was when I was 18. And we can unpack that at another time. But it was, I took a class called like sex and gender or something at the University of Wisconsin. And they basically explained just the scientific part of an organ.

So instead of it being this like freaky thing that you're doing that's like just for like self care, self pleasure, they were like, you simulate this and this happens. And it made me want to do it to just be like, oh, this is just part of the human existence. And I love that approach that you have with stuff and how you explain it and just like this is part of what our bodies do in different ways. I think it helps me. Whenever I hear the scientific explanation to things, it makes me feel like it makes sense. So even when I was coming out of that relationship and I had gone through so much manipulation and so much loss of self, it was reading these books about dark psychology that made me feel like, okay, like, I understand now. And then that brought me such great relief. It's not made me, it brought me closer to healing. So I think that I intellectualize things. And for some people, they don't like that because it can take the magic out of it. And also, too, we want to feel like this is an area that's personal to us and deeply personal. So when somebody provides like a scientific formula for like what you. you're experiencing emotionally that can feel minimizing. So it's my way. I mean, it'd be everybody else's way, but I definitely like when there's a word for things or a proven theory.

And everyone, it's a different experience for sure. But I want to know what is great sex for you. Oh, okay. I like that you're getting back to the question. You're like, we're getting back to the question. You're like, I'll go here and then I'll finish the sentence.

But then you're like, we're going back. I think great sex is sex that I think about three weeks later and shudder like so it's great in the moment but the next day I'm proud of the decision I made I'm proud of the person that I was I am I feel like I chose you know healthy options for safety so I think three weeks because you know that's the time it takes to figure out if you or ST if you have acquired an STD that experience so um great sex stopped being about like hotness in the moment and feeling full in the moment and feeling that rush of passion or even an orgasm in the moment because if the next day I woke up and I didn't feel good about

who I was or two weeks later I'm concerned about my health that's not a good sexual experience so I think if three weeks later I can look back on it and be like oh that was the shit like I'm gonna put that in the wank bank that to me is great sex I love also that I'm talking with you right now because I have I'm working like a new stand-up bit about how sex is not consistently as good as society makes it seem oh did you see that TikTok trend I don't know oh if you haven't I can do this for you for the first time in forever There's a TikTok thing that came up. I think you'll appreciate this.

It could take me some time so you can get it around it. But basically somebody asked, what does sex feel like for women? Oh, I saw it. Didn't have the attention span to watch it. Okay. Here are some of the responses. Okay.

When someone is scratching your back and misses the part that's actually itchy. It's an acting career. When you switch to the other side of the pillow, but it's warm. When you accidentally close your spot, when you're swiping through the apps as someone we yeah you know at the point that something is screaming right okay you know the point where someone is screaming right there right there but

they keep missing it that's what it feels like okay so as a sex expert how does it make you feel that like all these women are like what the fuck is going on bro it made me feel proud i was like women are funny some of the examples were like when you go to dip your wings and you think it's ranch but it ends up being blue cheese. Oh my God. Well, so that is nailing, like, what I'm trying to, I just want to normalize it. I feel like you just, I thought that everyone around me was having, like, amazing sex and I just was, like, not figuring it out yet.

But the truth is, I think that sex being mind-blowing every time is just a false narrative. Yes. And I joke, like, sex in the shower, how there's so many more complications or, like, sex in an airplane bathroom, like, not as ideal as, you know, society makes it seem. and then like sex and movies how it's just so I joke I'm like I queef all the fucking time I've never seen a queef in a movie so I love speaking to you because it's like let's talk the real shit like what's really going on because there's incredible sexual experiences but there's a lot of missing happening especially in your early 20s and I mean there's a wide range of it and finding like

I think it comes down to what you said in relationships that it comes with you and understanding you It definitely comes with that, but there's also an acknowledgement that the sexual scripts that we have don't put us in a starring role. So if sex is defined in a heterosexual relationship as penetration, well, only 25% of people with vulvas achieve orgasm from penetration. Specifically, even less than that, a penetration alone without like an assisted orgasm, which means that you're also stimulating the nipples or the clitoris is also being rubbed during the process. So if we're defining sex by this act that 75% of people are not going to receive pleasure from, then of course you're going to have a mass amount of people who are going to say, yeah, sex is like watching someone else clean. It's satisfying in the moment, but you know you got to clean your own shit later. And that changes when we start to broaden down our definition of sex.

So sex is stimulation of your primary sexual organs. So if my clitoris is not being stimulated, I actually didn't have sex. I masturbated you, right? or I watched you have sex or I gave you an avenue for sex, but what I needed wasn't stimulated or provided in that experience. And so I think if we did that, we would have a lot more people who would say like, here's what good sex takes for me, not just here's what good sex is supposed to be. Let me try to figure out how I can fit in that model. And there's also figuring out yourself like masturbating helps you understand like, oh, this is what feels good for me. This is

what I like. But then there's a weird transition of like, I know how I make myself come. But then when there's a person there, it's like you either try to make them, like, replicate what you like, or you find, like, a new way that they add to the experience. This is, like, the sexual math I'm doing in my head. That's good. That's perfect math. I think that's exactly what you need to do, right? Like, you need to have a base understanding of what works for you. And then somebody else says, we'll have you try this. And that person has more appendages than you do available. If you're masturbating, you only have a couple of hands. That person has a mouth. They have two hands. And now you have your two hands too.

So there's just more to play with, whether that person uses a hand to grab a toy or to rub your mom's pubis or you can pinch your own nipples. Like there's a lot more you can do because there's more appendages at play. But you should still be doing the basic things that you know we're going to get you off.

And they can do it in their own way. So I have great sex all the time. I probably will say with my husband, like I orgasm 98% and if the 2% that I'm not orgasming, I'm choosing not to. you're about to say nine to eight times per week and I was like oh my god but that's just because we really prioritize what works for me and if we don't we didn't have sex I gave him head right

or he had a quickie yeah and that's even the part of the definition too like yeah I like he had a quickie I just bent over and I'm like do you think you know we've all been there yeah and that wasn't sex for me no that was philanthropy I'll Venmo you after right you're welcome and true the sex feels so much better after I've already orgasmed like for me and also it'll probably feel better for him it's like you need to turn prehe the oven bitch um I also think to call your partner bitch the bedroom I made a joke about it you made a joke about it I'm like it would be kind of cool if you also I haven't no I haven't there I also I'm like younger like he's 45 I'm 30 and like he definitely like is more dominant

But I've never liked guys who were like fully dominant. Like I didn't like the whole like push me down on the bed and like that kind of wild sex. I'm for some reason like that that turns that scares me. So I joke about like I like choking but there's like technique to it. Like no windpipe like maybe a little lower. Also I like to date large men because my own whatever I like to feel like dainty like a dainty flower. But anyway, I also I want to delve a little bit into your book. where you talk about, like, dominance and dating.

Can you give me a little, like, summary on kind of what inspired you to write that? I think that people here, first and foremost, if you've written a book, you probably are aware of this. Do you write about it? You have a book out? No, but I'm starting. Oh, congratulations. Kind of. Okay, well, you won't.

I'm making the title. I'm writing notes. You don't? Not really. I've recorded, babe. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

I'm just talking about your successful orgasm rate with me. Yeah, she said 98%. You clock it like a golf score. You put it in every time. Check the handicapped. What we're talking about? Oh, we're talking about you saying book title. Oh, which is funny because the only thing I'll think about is like,

what don't the title of my book to be one day? Yeah, you don't necessarily get all the say that you would like to get. So the title of my book was not chosen by being. Neither was the cover of my book. I love how you preface it by like, this was not mine. Well, because they're like, this is going to be. delicious and it's like a cosmopolitan title i actually remember seeing the the cover and being like i didn't say that for her oh okay that's interesting i yeah well it was very like it was not your

face yeah and i was expecting to see your face yeah there was like racial reasons for that oh right whatever different uh podcast different topic but we'll unpack that and i just wanted to be a little bit more you know accessible so yeah but it's funny because then like when it's on trend they're like oh we want your face yeah i mean my next book will have my face i think at the time i was my yeah at the time that anyhow well it's interesting what what they want for the situation it's it's like we want this kind of educating and we don't want to confuse people by like what you look like however that complicates things for their their numbers that they're but then you kind of realize that same thing with the podcast right everybody has all these ideas but it's your market it's

your audience that really does come out and support so there's this fictitious audience that they're like, we don't want to, you know, offend or we want to attract these people. Those people don't come. It's your people. So, like, that's who you should cater towards. My mom has this anecdote that I love so much as she says, if you throw a conference for 3,000 people and only 30 show up, do you stare at the door the whole time waiting for the other thousands to come or do you focus on the 30? So I focus in the 30 in my life. Hell, yes. It's funny because stand-up comics talk about you'll have a room of people laughing and one person in the front with their hands crossed, not wanting to be there. Do you try to win them over

the whole time or do you focus on where the energy is good? Yeah. And I always think about like in a company you're running, put your energy towards what's like working instead of like the one thing that you're struggling with. Like if you fail, fail fast. I love when comics point out that person. That means that they're struggling with their shit

like they're pissed. When they're like you didn't, you're not having a good time at all. I hate, I'll try to win them over a little but if it's too hard, I'm like all these people are enjoying it and I'm going to put all my positivity and the positive energy. Yes, that's exactly. I'll try though because I'm competitive. When you do your book, you stand up for that. You are the spokesperson for your audience. They trust you. They know your instincts

are good and they're here for you. And so when you say something is good, know that like you're bringing an army of people behind you. You're speaking for them too. So I wish I did that more. But in either case, I didn't pick the title. But what I liked about the energy of the title, so I think dating with dominance gives people the impression that I'm telling women to like go out there and buy men drinks and like, you know, I'll drive you home sweetheart. What I'm suggesting is, dating with directiveness. Grab her by the tie. Right. I hated the fact that women take a passenger seat approach to dating. Like, I'm going to wait for that person to approach me. I'm going to wait for them to call me back. I'm going to wait until they initiate the first kiss. I'm going to wait

until they want me to meet their friends. And so you wait for them to propose. Yeah. You wait for them to, bitch, right? You wait for them to propose. So it becomes this really massive area of your life, which sociologists say that what will dictate a happy life, quote unquote, happy life has two-thirds to do with the quality and quantity of your close relationships. So we're talking about a major player in terms of your experience here on this planet. And I'm going to be in the passenger seat. I'm going to be in the tower waiting to be rescued. Like, fuck, no.

Like, I want to say, when it comes to my career, I'm not waiting for the right job to find me. I'm not waiting for my passion to, like, knock me on the, you know, on the glass window. I'm in charge. I have directiveness. And so dating with dominance essentially means being clear about what you want and you don't have necessarily even make the first move. but even putting yourself in position to get the results that you are looking for,

not hoping that somebody else, you know, knows what's best for you. Well, you're so right. If you want love, you want a great career, why would a career you, you like have a strategy on how you want to get there where the other thing you're just, but I guess there's so much fallacy of like it happens when you're not looking for it. And I'm like, if I'm not looking, that means I'm in my home on Netflix. And I don't see how that's going to have a partner. There's a balance, because you even said this with your relationship, right, that you weren't looking for a partner at the time.

So kind of the same thing with your career. It definitely didn't force it. You'll find your biggest opportunities come when you're not needing a job. Because if I need a job, the energy that I'm bringing, like, when I came to L.A., I had the classic story of, like, driving out with just my car and having nothing. I would go to meetings and then go to my car and cry afterwards. Because I'm like, please, like, God or Toad or Magical Orbit, whatever's out there. let this happen for me. I had to, I'm not Leonardo DiCaprio.

That energy was definitely felt in the meeting. I think I'm fooling people, but they're getting this ick off of me. This like, I need you to complete me. That's not sexy, right? Like we're a cooperation-based world. I'm not looking to be charitable. So if I don't feel this is mutually beneficial, instinctively as a human being, we're like,

I don't feel comfortable here. We want to go to the club with a lineup, right? We want things that have multiple five-star reviews on Amazon. We want to know that we're getting value for our time because our time is very precious or our opportunities are very precious. So if you have a desperation with dating, that's going to come off and give an ick factor. So it isn't that you shouldn't be looking, you know, because you should be intentional, but you can't need it to happen for yourself. And you'll find that when you release the need, that's why I'm always very particular too. And people are like, I'm looking for a relationship.

And on the first date with somebody, they'll say like, I'm looking for this to go somewhere. So if you're not looking for anything serious, we probably aren't alive. I'm like, how could you know? Yeah, that doesn't make sense. He could be a good fuck buddy. Right. And not right for, yeah, just being like, I want a relationship. So if you're in it, then we're going to do that.

It's so scary to say. Yes. Instead, it should be like, I'm looking for, I'm looking to enjoy myself. It'd be a turn off if a guy said that to me. Like, hey, I'm looking for a relationship. So if you're not, don't fuck with this. I'd be like, suffocated. Because I'm like, I don't even know, like, if we're going to get along past these next 10 minutes.

It's fucked up. My toxic relationship that I was in helped me. we get to that place and that I realized like oh the wrong person can actually fuck up your mental health and I'm low-key scared of being with the wrong person and being in that place again as you should be I was just enjoying myself so when I'd meet someone I wasn't initially like oh I want them to fall in love with me because I was like love could be scary yes I think it's a healthy way of looking at it to be honest I had this uh-huh moment of like there's two ways to go downhill you can go downhill on your bike and like take your foot off the brakes and then just free fall throw your hands in the air

and then have a fucking ball and there's something so much fun like you've ever gone downhill and you're on a bike before it's so fun but you don't see the pebbles you don't see the little holes in the road and then that can turn to something really catastrophic very fast true you can also go downhill and you could go slower and have your foot on the brake and yes you're not getting that like i'm surrendering myself this rush of craziness like oh my god i'm alive but you are getting the joy of momentum you're getting the joy of progress moving forward. And you also are giving yourself space and time to say there's a pebble, let me hit the brakes or let me go around it.

And you get to pick. So I'm not saying one is better than the other because there's definitely benefits to just letting yourself feel. There's something that you can't replace that feeling by being guarded. But when you're guarded, you also don't get your head smashed in. So you're so right. You're so right. You can fill in the blanks in your head and be like so happy with the guy for three months.

And then eventually the, I don't know the math, but and the science but the dopamine is going to subside and then you hate how he breathes and you're just like how did I get here like that's happened to all and then like his mom spones on texting you and you're like what is going on I don't even like this guy but I do think I want to know what is that where like it really is science that you're you have the puppy dog stage and then I learned there's kind of just this like boundary stage you get to and then that's where you see that long-term relationship oh I like that I never heard that before the boundary. stage yeah it's kind of like after the dopamine kind of calms down a bit you test each other's

boundaries and for the people who can't get past it you're fighting and you break up and then once you learn how to have healthy boundaries because you test each other there's like that testing moment but I want to know with you in a long-term relationship especially with sex how do you keep it spicy you're just intentional when you first get with somebody you're on a roller coaster so your brain is doing all the work for you you're in a roller coaster you don't do shit you get strapped in you're like, I'm here for the ride. So because your brain wants you to make a long-term connection with somebody,

because again, it's integral for its survival for you to have a tribe of people who really give a fuck about you. So when your brain notices that you're around somebody who could really give a fuck about you, especially in a romantic way, because that's one of the most strongest,

most potent connections, it's like, yes, let's do this. And so your brain is incentivizing you every step of the way. So you don't have to try to get that passion. You're getting the butterflies. You're getting the stomach drop moments When they're not around, you feel like a heavy sense of loss.

When they enter into a room, all of a sudden, like your heart starts beating faster. Like, I used to think about it when I was much younger that it's crazy that people are so confused about what love is, but love is so physical to me because my lip would quiver. You know, my eyes would dilate, my heart would start pounding, my palms would sweat. But then I realized it's not love. That's just, you know, lust and infatuation. So scientists actually say that once that phase is over, that's when true love can begin. The difference is it's called passionate love. So passionate love is that automatic stage that

hands up on a roller coaster, you're getting the neurochemical cocktail and it's doing all the work for you. And then after a while, which is actually really interesting, is that if you continue to be on the roller coaster of passionate love, it actually would shorten your life expectancy. Because every time that you get these rushes of dopamine, these rushes of adrenaline, it damages your tissue. And it's also very stressful for your body, right? Because when you're not with them, you have loss of appetite, you're not in a you're very up and down it's like cortisol levels exactly yeah yes so you have a heightened um your cortisol levels are like dipping and diving it's like you can't keep it up like you literally physically can't keep it up so then eventually the neurochemical cocktail stops being served up in your

internal bar and then now you're in a car so do you want to turn the ignition on it's up to you do you want to go fast do you want to turn left you want to turn right like you're in the driver's seat so that intentionality and the fact that you have to physically do a lot I mean like you can get to a place where you're cruising and that happens too but there is a shift that happens where it's no longer like oh my god like we're just having great sex because we exist and now we have to physically say we're going to get in the car together and this is what we're going to do and this is how we're going to do it and we're going to have this kind of experience

because we both want it so it's not bad if you're like scheduling sex no that works for you right I um I want to know, too, you talk a lot about, like, seduction. Yes. Give me some tips. I think it's, I mean, so the book, the artist seduction is my favorite because it breaks down nine different ways you can be seductive. So I think that we grow up in a world that's like, if you're not talking like this.

Yeah. And licking your lips and, you know, like how to. Fluttering your head. My friend referred to it as the club walk. Like, if you don't have the club walk, like you're not seductive. But instead, you can be seductive by being curious about somebody else's passions. So when I'm around Hannah, because she asks me about what matters to me, I get to be my highest self. So I'm attracted to the version of me that exists with you because you're like, that startup business that you were doing with stamps.

How's that going? I'm like, no one's asked me about my stamps business in so long. And now there's this person, I get to be the dream version of me around. That's extremely seductive. Being funny, right? So letting set, like laughing, being adventurous, being the kind of person that when I'm around you, I don't know what's going to happen next because you inspire me to come out of my comment. comfort zone being somebody who has like a childlike essence where they don't care what other people are thinking because we live in a world that's so bogged down with expectations when you're around

somebody who's genuinely free that's like fuck I remember when I was like that that's seductive holy shit you're blowing my mind right now and I also think so many it's important that women listen to this because I feel like so much of our egos can be tied to looks yes and when you're saying that I'm thinking of all these moments that like I was turned on when someone has done something like that and it's important to understand like your value as a human is so much more than like if you have a fine line on your face absolutely and I think that we know this like for men there's so many times you see a dude you're like how do he get that girl you know and then he's really funny or really charming or really caring or you find out that you know he's helped her

propel her business to the next level and it makes sense to you so I think women should give himself the benefit of also knowing there's so much more value that you have to offer a connection And that's why when you're scrolling Instagram or comparing yourself to other people based on a photo it's like there's so much more to what encapsulates who you are and it's not just you know these external factors so much

I can talk to you for hours which is dangerous I want to play a game with you called the Seven Deadly Sins Okay what are you greedy about affection like probably like I'm not saying that in a positive way I mean like this is a constant problem in my relationship ooh actually me too

where like I want him to verbalize how awesome I am and he's like he goes but you know how much I love you and I'm like but sometimes I just want you to give me a speech compliments yes I know we have a thing called love love speech. I'm like, do I can I have a love speech? And he's like, oh my God. Wait, so explain what's going on with you in terms of affection. I just

need to be constantly touched or else I feel like you don't like me and you never did and this whole thing is a lie and we should get divorced right now. So do you let yourself go there and then have him calm you down or do you say oh, this is anxiety. I probably get there

twice a week or not twice a week. Once every two weeks. If we brought Jared on, I mean, I'm getting better. with acknowledging, and what I do is if I'm not getting physical affection, I start to spin and then like, is he not an attentive father? Is that why I'm mad? Is it because he's not helping with chores? Do I feel like I'm the only one who cares about taxes? So rather than like addressing like, hey, you probably just feel like insecure because you're crazy about physical touch and you haven't gotten any in a while, I'll start to try to find other things that could be

the problem. And could it even just be a little thing that could calm you down, like him just putting his hand on your leg. It doesn't have to be like a ass slap. It could be an ass slap. It could be an ask, I mean, hand on my leg, it depends. The intention would have to be like, I want you in this way. So that's my greed thing. But then he also, you have to have a partner that when you're doing that doesn't feel like, okay, that's turning me off that you want me to touch you all the time. And you also don't want to be inauthentic. Like, okay, here. I wouldn't, I'll take inauthentic. I don't know it's her love language. It's going to feel so phony when I do it. It won't. It won't. Just do it. So I'm working on that and I'm continuously working on

that and then he also is not traditionally very affectionate so that's an interesting combination for us to like constantly overcome so yeah i'm with a guy who's irish and i'm learning like in just irish culture affection and like talking about your feelings is not a thing and i'm italian where we have our own issues but i'm like mass stereotyping these cultures but italians are very like affectionate loving kissy kissy like you kiss your grandma chissy grandpa and So I like, we're having a mix of those. And I think we're learning from each other. And he's like, you don't always have to tell me what you're feeling all the time.

And I'm like, yeah, I do. Yeah, I do. And I'm waiting for you to go. It's your turn. Who are you envious of? Oh, my gosh. So Ashley C. Ford, this, like, I have five names. You so quickly.

I have five names that immediately popped up as interesting because yesterday my sister, and I was, I was saying to my sister, it's a good person for you to look at. And then she's like, I don't actually ever do that. I don't have people whose career I go and obsess over and then think about like how I could be them. I'm like, that's all I do. So Ashley C. Ford is a friend of mine who wrote an incredible book that Oprah thinks is an incredible book and the world, because it's a New York Times bestseller. I'm sure it'll get turned into a movie. And she's so fucking good. Like she is stupid good. I'm just like, how does somebody get this good? But it's also that she's your friend and that you're

surrounding yourself with people that inspire you. I don't know how friendly we're friends for sure, but I'm not saying that like we don't hang out every day. I've seen, I met Ashley in person once in my life and then we definitely have a relationship online. And I would comfortably tell her that I'm extremely jealous of her. Really really good. It's interesting because I see you and I'm like no one has a career like her.

Oh wow. So I don't see you as like, but I think, yeah, you probably talk about different stuff than her. I can tell you 10 people who have a career that's better than mine. But again, this is kind of how I draw. It's interesting because my husband's the same way and he got it. he's a podcast called Enjoy the Podcast with two other dudes who are here today

and they're super hot so it's a great podcast and they got into a debate about that of like is jealousy a good thing because both Jared and I are very jealous people about careers

so he'll come to me and be like look at this person's song look at this person's thing look at this person I'm like yeah I know and so we draw a lot of inspiration off of like the greatness of other people

and acknowledging that we're not there yet yeah I use the jealousy as a trigger of what you want so you know like oh that's what I want to manifest like for example I'd like watch comedy and I'd be looking around and all I'd want to be was on the stage

where some people I guess watch comedy and they have no part of them wants to be on the stage so me being jealous of the person on stage was just a universe like signal telling me like that's what you want Do you know Bray Brown I think did a beautiful segment on this. Do you know what you know? Yes yes. That I think was great because I was like that's exactly

how I feel. And then you use that energy instead of just weighing on you to be like oh this is a lesson that I need to chase. And maybe that's why I'm okay with an open relationship because I like like the feeling of being jealous. So maybe there's something there. But the thing is, like, it's funny, like, I, I love flirting. I'm a huge flirt.

And Des is flirty too. But, like, obviously we don't say we're in an open relationship. But, like, we're going to do comedy at night. And then our job is to, like, be likable and, like, make people laugh. Which is so fucking flirty. Yeah. Like, making, like, I know Des is making women laugh every day. But I kind of, I like if women want to fuck him.

I do, too. I do. And I like if he flirts with them. But I was joking with my. friend like I'd rather a guy say he wants to fuck someone than be like oh I love that the energy of that person what do you mean oh I understand what you're saying you know what I'm saying like that makes me more jealous of does was like yeah that girl was like really like cool and like she like really got me that makes sense a lot of people that drive me crazy they deprioritize sexual attraction and then

emotional attraction feels like betrayal exactly what are you gluttonous about so what do you overindulgent what's like your guilty pleasure oh man have a baby right now so like really nothing i have everything is on scarcity although we didn't even touch the baby yet because i like that'll be next podcast we do so i have a baby under one so i think about like i don't get enough sleep i don't get enough sex i don't get enough time to work on myself i don't get enough time to be with the baby i don't get enough time for anything so like there's nothing that i really feel like i get a lot of right now everything is like just bare minimum it sounds like you're making everything work right now and you're in that like bare minimum you're

drowning a little but like you're making it work you can do it all example a bare minimum you can do it all for sure i'm in school right now too i'm literally doing oh yeah isbo's telling me you're in school and i was like holy bare minimum so everything is just like just enough to get by but you love learning i love learning i too what a nerd i also think did people think that you're like a sex freak Like that you're like, that you want to fuck all the time. You're just thinking about fucking and like, do you know, do you know horrible decisions? Yes, I love Boisey. Yes.

So I was on their podcast and like, you know, like everyone looks at you as like prudy and like hoity tooty and like this classy dame. I was like, everyone looks at me. So I think it depends on what circle you're in. I can either be like seeming like motherly and like scholastic. Yeah, to them you're like adorable. Yeah, exactly. Because for people who talk about sex, you just assume it's like, okay, so

they fucking like 10 times a day but like horrible decisions they do yeah so they like if you think about what your aspirations are for a sex expert they suffice that i don't think that i like i get i'm just bare minimum i'm just getting by so you're like my vagina's been through a lot the last year when was the last time you experienced extreme wrath or anger oh let me think about this extreme wrath oh man i have an answer for this and i very rarely say i can't explain more but But in this particular case, I had an incident with my husband that it was really bad. And it was actually maybe a month ago or so. The first year after having a kid, which my sister said this to me, was so affirming.

She said that this is the hardest year. Like a lot of parents will tell you that zero to one is harder than one to ten. Oh, wow. So it's a really, really difficult year on the relationship. Yeah, I heard that having a baby will never like make your relationship better. Like as in it won't like fix anything. Yeah, especially at the first year. Maybe after a while it does because, I mean, even now it's getting better,

but when you're sleep deprived and you're time deprived and you're losing yourself and your hormones are probably weird. It's a lot. It's a lot going on. Did you want to have a kid? Yeah, really did. So you wanted to be a mom. So grateful for that because trust me, I'm like, there's two things in life that you should never do unless you fully want to do.

And that's school and a baby. As an adult who's in school again now, my experience is so different than when my parents forced me to go to college. Yeah. Because now I actively want to be here. So the way that I'm treating my education, I'm paying for this shit. It's so different. So if you don't want to have a kid and you have one, I mean, good luck to you because

this shit is so hard. So every time that I'm like, I just feel so sorry for myself, I'm like, bitch, you asked for this. You asked for this. But it's scary that like the first year is the hardest because I'd be like, I'd be like, oh my God, did I make a mistake? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

For sure. There's a time I didn't want kids. Like, and I really didn't want kids. And people are like, don't you like think back on that version of yourself and just say one day you'll understand. I'm like, no, I think back on that person. And I'm like, you knew what the fuck you were talking about. When was the last time you were a sloth, like a lazy piece of shit? Because I feel like you are the busiest bench. Yeah, you don't get to. I don't have an answer. And in the most annoyingest way possible. Do you like lying around

watching TV? I would love it. I fantasized. There was a time when Jared and I first got together that he got sick. And I got to binge watch the O.J. Simpson trial. And it was like, not the trial it was like the American horror story or something but I think back on those days really often like that was so much fun I just laid in bed do you say no to things are you good at saying no a lot yeah okay good that's what I'm working on what was the last time you let your pride of your ego get in the way of something this is a tough one oh my yeah my relationship um I think too like another factor that people don't talk about with a baby is babies don't have any sense of anyone else's feelings so they pick favorites a lot so there'll be times

like the baby does not want a damn thing to do with me and just wants the dad so then your pride and ego can get really caught up in those moments you have to really check yourself in that but it always comes back around the pendulum's always swinging sometimes it's cute though that's cute but in the moment where it's happening to you you're like my baby doesn't like me so they're definitely those are it's very easy to get your pride and ego wrapped up in that experience are you kidding me like if a dog decides to like get pet by someone else I'm well imagine if your cat just chose des over you and like really genuinely no but that's why I love my cat because she doesn't fuck with anyone but me she's a loyal girl but one day she could but I like that she like will let him

pet her now but no but seriously if I meet any dog and a dog runs to someone else I'm like is my energy shit like what's happening okay when was the last time you lusted over someone besides Jared like do you have a celebrity crush or like I really like Namar um the soccer player. Namar Jr. But I guess my last, like, I'm trying to get there's somebody in person. Also, I just want you know your brain works so fast. Oh, thank you.

Or I just think about these things all the time. Most of these questions, people take like five minutes. Also, like, it is like 11, 30, 12, and this is still mourning for me. And you are just so smart and quick. Or I just think about my sins every day. Namar Jr. next. Okay. To wrap this up.

because this is just the tip of the iceberg with me and Shan I feel like I feel like there's so much more interesting things to know about you and everyone needs to delve into her content and just soak it up no pun intended but um what advice would you give to people on how to cope with your hell when you're going through it when it's dark what's your go-to oh man it's gonna sound kind of fucked up but like lean into that shit make videos write stories like this is what life is about the The experience of being alive is the highs and the lows. There's so many other species in this planet that are just in autopilot.

They don't have free will. They don't have experience. They don't have emotions. And so there's like, I watched this documentary once, National Geographic documentary. You're talking about ants. And there's ants that literally while they're being burned alive will continue to do their job. So if they're a leaf cutting ant, even if they're being burned alive, like I just, I cut leaves.

This is what I do. Like they don't know how to like experience the range, right? Like a suffering pain. lost morning so if you can experience those things like this is the benefit of being a human because i could just be a leaf cutting ant sure and then not feel but i'm a human being and i'm born to feel this is one of the best answers i've ever gotten oh wow i do have to say i'm kind of disappointed by one of because i'm like who else brought up a leaf cutting app being barked to a cream that most people like you know keep going but i i i always like want to be doing as well as i

and I feel like I'm loved more when I'm doing well and I'm dealing. Really? People love when you're down. When I was going to the shit in life, people loved me. And I got, I look, I fortunately recorded a lot of my, like, really terrible. Do you mean friends? No, like the internet. Oh, the internet.

Maybe friends, it can depend. There are some friends who can actually had a lot of friendships that ended because I was no longer a state of crisis because you realize that, like, our connection was based on, you know, Pain bonding. Pain, right? So. But I think that now even like that I'm in a healthy relationship, if I hear a really good breakup song, I'm like, ooh, I wish that I hate this motherfucker. I wish that I was heartbroken because I remember. That's like every Zelle song after you listen to it.

You're like, oh, my fucker's still here. Because you have a song, like when you went through your last breakup, like what was your song? Oh my God. Well, I joke that I remember the good songs and I can't listen to them anymore because they'll remind me of that person. Like they've exes ruined songs for you. Um, to be honest, okay, I'm, we'll get into this on your pod. I'm very bad at feeling my feelings. I'm, that's why Taylor Swift can do it for you.

True. True, but I've been taught to always like, don't feel pain, don't cry. So I like numb it. But your advice right now is so powerful. You're Italian. You're supposed to be the filler. You just said that. I know, that's why.

Our stereotypes not true? That's why I'm, but are stereotypes not true always. Didn't you all not like meatballs? No, but I feel like I, your advice is so great because I, I did see something on TikTok or something where someone was like, yes, make the plot twist. Like get the life more exciting. Like what is life if you're just like, if you don't have these ups and downs, if you don't have these come ups, if you don't fall and bring yourself back up?

Like that's what makes it so much more interesting. So that's really helpful to me. Yeah, it's going to be a great part of your story. And you're going to reference this part if you're in hell right now. You're going to think back on and be proud of yourself for how you came out of it. And the coming out of it part is going to be a little bit. shitty but just know like in two years you're going to fall in love with this part of your story so try to like love and lean into it in the moment at the very least record and write that shit down

i love that too when you went through a hard time i love being like can't wait to talk about how i got through this on a podcast in two years um shan where can people follow you listen to you watch you what are you working on give me all the goods i'm going to just say one request which is my podcast yes myself and my sister are working on it together and it's like the greatest thing i've ever done. It's called lovers and friends and you are a guest on it. Yes, everyone listened to that episode right fucking now. We're doing a

episode about the intersection of love and humor. How that can go extremely wrong and extremely right in some cases, so looking forward to it. Download, like, subscribe, review, swipe up, you know what to do. Thanks for coming to hell guys and I'll talk to you later. Bye.