Betrayal - Blood Ties | Ashley's Story

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Ashley is interviewed by her local police department and finds out more about what her husband had been doing while isolating himself from the family. During a police interview, she learns devastating details about his crimes; the worst detail is that they involve her daughter.  If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] To report a case of child sexual exploitation, call The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's CyberTipline at 1-800-THE-LOST If you or someone you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards children, find help at stopitnow.org See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Topics featured in this episode may be disturbing to some listeners. Please take care while listening. I got out and, like, stood by my car, and I put my hands together, like, in prayer motion. I just said, God, please be with me. and I opened my eyes and I walked towards him. And I yelled at him. I yelled at him. I yelled so loud. I said, how fucking dare you?

That's when he put his head down. And he wouldn't look at me after that. I'm Andrea Gunning. And this is betrayal. Episode 2. Blood ties. Ashley Litton discovered her husband was in possession of child pornography. With the help of her sister Anna,

Ashley contacted law enforcement and reported him. On September 29th, 2021, it was a how did I get here moment for Ashley. Her life imploded. Her sense of safety for her children was gone. Like any of us in the wake of betrayal, grief, destruction, and heartbreak, you revisit everything.

I was going through some of our old photos and videos. I came across once. specific one where he was teaching her to ride the bike. As she was driving away for the first time, she was yelling back, like, Daddy, look, Daddy, look. And he was kind of cheering her on. Jason's father shared the love of football with him. That's how they bonded. And Jason wanted to have that with his kids. Jason has been a Vikings fan his whole life. The story that I got was His father had gotten each one of his brothers a stuffed animal. And Jason happened to get the Minnesota Vikings stuffed animal,

and his brothers got two other teams. So their whole lives, they cheered for those teams. I had been at work, and he'd been home with the kids, and the Vikings were going to play. And he had, like, a shrine of Viking stuff all over my living room. I mean, he had jerseys laid out. He had stuffed animals. He had other memorabilia.

was wearing one of his huge Vikings jerseys. And I was like, uh, what are you doing? From that moment on, every time the Vikings played, everyone was decked out in Vikings gear. That was our tradition. And he wasn't just a fan. Jason coached in the Little League football community. Julio Heist lives in Ashley's neighborhood. Jason was his son's coach.

Jason actually asked me to assist. coaching. We just played football brought us close. He is very passionate and he actually really care by the kids. Like it showed 100% how much he cared. It was great. Jason also played. Played flag football. I went to all their games. Of course my son played with him too. Great athlete coach. While Jason was known for his love of football, friends also found him hilarious. Ashley's friend, Emmy. He was one of the funniest people I have ever met. You put Jason and my husband together and you had a couple cocktails in there.

They would sing into a wooden spoon as they ran around the kitchen. They were just always so goofy and he was kind of that guy paired with my husband that reminded me that there are good men. They're still out there. Ashley had taken on adult responsibilities since she was a kid, taking care of her mother, raising her siblings, and early motherhood. She was ready for a partner, someone to help carry the weight.

I think because I had spent so much in my life being the person that had to be in charge and make the decisions. When Jason came along, I deferred to him with everything. Everything I did. Even when we bought our house, I was like, listen, I don't give a shit what house we bought. at this point, pick house, and let's do it. I don't care. Like, you know best, so you do it. It doesn't matter to me.

In marriage, Ashley finally felt part of a team. She loved it, sharing coffee with Jason in the morning, family dinners in the evenings when sports weren't taking the kids in three different directions. But after eight years of being married, their family dynamics started to change. From the outside looking in, we just had this picture perfect life. beautiful home, wonderful kids, both of us have careers. We're both like semi-young and in shape.

But the reality was very different. Two years before COVID, Jason stopped interacting with us. Ashley's stepmother, Kathy Trejillo. He wasn't going to work. She was having money struggles. And they were kind of like living two separate lives. but you don't know what goes on in people's four walls. So you're like, you know, try and just to be supportive to Ashley.

That's all, you know, we tried to do is be supportive. And if she wanted to hang in there and keep it going, then we were going to try to stand behind her. Jason was a talented tradesman when he showed up for work. Jason's former employer, Steve E.hausen. He liked to take a lot of time off and he would say his children were sick or he had to go to school for something like that. And so he was using excuses that weren't true

to take time off and do something for himself. It was actually putting their mortgage in jeopardy. And now, like, in retrospect, I'm like, was he just staying home and watching all of this stuff? Just wouldn't work for a couple, two, three weeks at a time. And I'm sure it was not because he didn't have any work, He just didn't want to go to work. Jason also lost interest in spending time with friends and family.

Ashley's family enjoyed Jason's company. She comes from a big family with siblings, step-siblings, nieces, and nephews. Any excuse was a good one for a family party. And John, Ashley's dad, loved to host. I mean, he didn't come to our functions anymore. It's like, man, where's that guy? Oh, man, you know. He would tell her family he needed to go to work.

He told work he was prioritizing family. Most times, he was doing neither. Kavea traveled a lot for her competitive soccer league, and he wouldn't come with us. We went to California, went to Colorado, went to Las Vegas, went to St. George. We went to all these places, and he wouldn't go. So Ashley took the kids and left Jason behind.

We used to do so much together. We did. We were active. We were outside. We were at the movies. We were at the aquarium. We were in the mountains. We did things all the time with the kids.

Ashley was determined to keep going. I was like, we can't wait for you to live life with us. We can't not do anything. So I just started leaving him. If you want to come along with us, we want you to come. But we're not going to sit in this house and do nothing anymore. Eventually, Jason stopped bringing anything to the table. So I asked him for divorce.

And he told me that he'd give me a divorce. It's like, praise the Lord. You know, we cannot live like this anymore. But then COVID happened. And all of a sudden, my Jason came back. And he was being the man of the house type of thing. He was taking charge. Like, we need to make a plan and we need to get food

and we need to make sure the kids are taking care of and, you know, make sure that we're safe. I was like, all right. So we just didn't talk about it again. But as lockdown orders were lifted and life returned to normal, Jason withdrew again. He would kind of revert back to being a hermit.

We walked on eggshells with him. Every single day, we did everything we could to, like, not piss him off. We did everything we could to just not be noticed by him. All of us did. But for the most part, Jason stayed in our bedroom. But he wasn't showing any interest in Ashley there. Jason stopped showing any interest in sex or intimacy. I thought it was me.

And I thought, I'm like, well, I had three kids. So it's like a hot dog down a hallway maybe. And so I was like, I'm not going to do this to myself anymore. Ashley sought help from a therapist. And she learned that his behavior had nothing to do with her. I'd come to some self-realization. I'm like, I am beautiful. I'm a good mom.

And I'm a good wife. And this problem isn't me. It's him. At that point, it kind of reinvested. my time with God. And so I was like, I made this covenant with my husband and with God. I was going to love him through sickness and health. And he would never leave me. And so I had decided that I wasn't going to get divorced. I was like, I'm going to love him harder. I'm going to love him more. I'm going to be there for him. I'm going to help him through this. And it's going to be

okay. That's what I thought. I just thought he was insanely depressed. And I wanted him to go see a therapist. He went to his general family doctor. He's diagnosed ADD. He put him on Adderall and I think Prozac. And then like he thought he had it under control because he's like, well, I'm not going to take it on the weekend. And that's why he was sluggish on the weekend. That's what he'd say. It's not a good idea to take a medication vacation when you're on Prozac and Adderall without a doctor's consultation. Jason continued to isolate himself

and became hyper-focused on a new hobby. I bought him a drawing table because he liked to draw. He would lose himself for hours in a sketchpad. I don't remember why we had stopped by, but we were outside and he was in the house and he said, I'm getting into drawing now. Come in, I want to show you guys my drawings.

I was like, go clean your bathroom. You know, what are you doing? Why are you sitting here drawing? In my head, I was like, what is he doing? Anna thought his drawings were bizarre. He's showing me these drawings, and I don't know if he had drew them himself or he outlined him from a printed off image or something, but they were like highly sexualized characters,

very seductive clothing, huge boobs, all women. I just remember thinking, like, what the fuck? What is he doing? This is not normal to me. And I remember telling Ashley, I'm like, you need to tell him to stop showing people this. It's fucking weird. He wasn't helping Ashley with anything.

She came over here and fixed her brakes, fix her tires, whatever was, you know, and he always had some excuse. She worked overtime constantly. She changed jobs for a better opportunity. She gave and gave and gave and gave. New goals. and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever.

I am Matt and I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally. And I'm Hurricane de Bolo.

It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about.

Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply?

What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike Delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures were taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolorotcha on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLaurocha and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Okay, so I've read through the initial report.

I was hoping that maybe we could talk a little bit more in-depth how it all came about. On a day that felt completely surreal, Ashley Linton was finally sitting at the Riverton Police Station. Her husband was at his brother's house, hoping to hear from her. It was 10 at night, but the officer in charge of special victims wanted to talk right away. He had worked quickly to secure a search warrant and inventory what Jason had in the hidden file. Now Ashley sat across from the detective,

Jason Rue, in a small interview room. I went through, I've been through probably about 1,500 photos in that account that you told me about. I'm so disgusted. This is obviously serious stuff. Not only does he have child pornography on his thing, but he's produced it, basically. Oh, my God. You're outside doing something with your plants, and he walks into a base.

Yeah, as soon as she had a white shirt on. And so he's like, hey, where's your mom? And any time she would turn around, he's going up so you can actually see her breasts of her shirt multiple times. My God. I'm so worried about my daughter. There were videos from their family trip to Disney as well. It was the only trip Jason had taken with his family in two years. Detective Rue explains.

The stepdaughter was getting out of the shower and told everyone, hey, don't look. And Jason had set up his phone to video record her coming out of the shower while she had no clothes on. And then he proceeded to act like he wasn't watching, although he was recording her. Legally, Aveo was Jason's stepdaughter, but he had raised her since she was two years old. She called him dad. Porn issues that you're aware of? Absolutely. Our whole marriage has been flooded with it.

It was just always really awkward. I think we've had sex maybe five times in two and a half years. And I'm kind of like masturbating, like weird times. Like with me and my daughter, my age. girl, like, she's slept in our bed and he's like on the floor masturbating looking at his home. And I'm like, what the fuck are you doing? Our family's here. Like, what's wrong with you? Ashley revealed other upsetting details about her marriage to Jason. He had an affair on me when I was five months pregnant with my youngest. And the girl he

had an affair with, I think she was 18, but I knew that she had just graduated. Right. She was little. This is seven, eight years ago? Yeah. How did you find out about that? He left his phone one time at home. Like an idiot. Anyways, she had texted and I was like, so excited to see you tonight. He had come up with this huge elaborate story. I mean, he's a talker.

He could, you know that stupid saying he could sell ice to Eskimos? That's him. And anyway, so I called her. And I was like, do you know he's getting ready to have a baby and we're married and we have two children? And she was like, I'm sorry, sorry. Sorry. The conversation turned to the messages Ashley had been receiving from Jason.

I understand you're upset with me right now. And don't want to see me. I really want to talk to you when you're ready. I won't hassle you after this. Text message. I'm sorry. I've created this problem for our family. I love you, Ash.

I'm so sorry. I know I need help. And I'm going to get it. I promise to work hard and make sure you guys are taking care of. But Detective Rue was skeptical about the tax from Jason concerning the images. In my opinion, it's someone who, just got caught doing something they know is not just wrong, but illegal. It starts going into manipulation saying, you know, I'm sorry I did this to our family.

I'm a bad husband. Nothing about the victim, nothing about the wife. It's all about I've been caught. Now I need to say sorry and try to build this trust again. Later on, he says, I will get the help I need to quit ignoring my issues. And so, you know, he's throwing all these things out, like negotiation. I will do this and I need to do this and I'll do better if you don't say anything and just mean you do it together. That's how I read these text messages.

Once Ashley reported the crime, Detective Rue moved quickly. We were able to get the correct paperwork to get a warrant to get into those photos a couple hours before he deleted them. A few hours later, yes. The police enlisted Ashley to help make the arrest. So basically how it would be if we could get him somewhere where our guys can just bring him into me here, interview him here. I'd like to do it tonight, to be honest. I was just wondering if there's maybe a way that we could get him to leave the house

and meet you somewhere and just come pick him up. Because I'd rather do that and go off on his brother's door. The Riverton police weren't keen to arrest Jason. at another police officer's house. And it's easy to see why. There's a firearm on the premises. It's complicated. But Detective Rue was still irritated

that Jason's brother didn't do the right thing. I don't care if you're a brother. You're in law enforcement. That is a no-no. Like, he could get himself in some trouble. He should be there first brother. I'm cool with that,

but on the way here to talk to us about it. You know, like you screwed up royally and this is probably going to be happening to you. The plan was to get Jason out of his brother's house to a neutral meeting spot, where he would believe he could make his case one-on-one with Ashley. I just told him, how about it lets me away from the house? I don't want the kids to know. Okay.

Yeah, tell me 20, 25 minutes. Ashley was setting him up to be arrested. And I'm just going to wait here while they do that, and then once I get him, we'll try to talk to him. Okay. I tried to imagine what Ashley was thinking, driving from the Riverton Police Station to the Walmart parking lot. It must have been the strangest drive of her life. It was 11.30 p.m.

Jason pulls in and I could feel this like fire burning inside of me, thinking that he had filmed up my daughter's shirt and saw her bare breasts. Our daughter's shirt. So I had this, like, flash. We were kind of parked where people return their carts, and there's, like, these big rocks. For a moment, she fantasized about vigilante justice. In my head, it played out.

I'm like, I'm going to grab a rock, and I'm going to, like, smack him over the head, and then he's going to pass out, and then I'm going to kick him really hard, and then I'm going to, you know, like, all these terrible, violent things. Ashley felt so sad for his victims. I wanted to take his eyes away from him so he can never look at my daughter again.

Look at anybody's daughter again. All those little girls that I saw in those photos, everything. I just, it was so awful. And so when I thought out, I didn't grab a rock, thank God. But I just started hitting him and he just let me. was like, what are you doing? Ash, Ash, what are you doing?

And then the police pulled up right after and they took him into custody right then. Just like that, it was done. He was on his way to the police station. His work truck was still sitting in the parking lot. You know, we're married, so this is my asset, too, so I should probably make sure that I don't just leave it in the Walmart parking lot. But I didn't have anyone to drive it anywhere. for me. So I called his brother. It's like 12 o'clock at night at this point. He was sleeping.

And he was like, what did you do? What did you do? And I was like, I did what you couldn't do. I did what you were supposed to do that you didn't do. His brother agreed to pick up Jason's truck. Finally, after 14 hours, the hospital, a police interview, The longest and most awful day of Ashley's life had come to an end. New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt, and I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there.

If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be.

I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insights. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection.

We just want to connect with each other. Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every January, we're encouraged to start over. But what if this year is about slowing down and learning how to understand ourselves more deeply? What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help? I'm Mike Delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons.

This is a podcast for men navigating story. emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures were taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love, then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolorotcha on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLaurocha and start listening on the free IHeart radio app today. You have the right to remain silent, so you don't need to say anything to me.

Anything you say can, it will be used against you in court. You have the right to have a lawyer. While being read his Miranda rights, Jason explained that he'd never been arrested. He was polite. Do you understand each of these rights, I've explained? I do. Okay. Detective Rue tried to engage Jason in a conversation about the charges. Ashley contacted me.

Sounds like you guys have had a pretty rough day today. Yeah. Okay. So that's some of the things that I was hoping to talk to you a little bit about, trying to get better understanding of what that's been going on, things of that nature. I'm willing to talk to you about whatever. Yeah. If you are, but if you prefer not to, then we'll just end our conversation.

Regardless of whether we talk or not tonight, I'm going to have you booked into the South County Jail. So as far as being, just because I have no idea how this process goes, being booked into jail, am I just going to be stuck there? Or do I have bail? Some of the charges that I'll book you in on are they're a little hefty, okay? So I don't know if they're going to just be like, hey, you're out tomorrow morning? I just feel like since I've never been in a situation before, I feel like I'd almost rather have an attorney presence. Okay, so I don't want. Doing something I'm not supposed to get me down.

Okay, I understand. Jason understood he'd be sleeping in a jail cell that night, no matter what. He was behind bars. That was taken care of. But there were the kids and questions about where dad was. It's hard to imagine a day like this. Managing putting one foot in front of another, let alone the micro and macro decisions that Ashley had to make for herself, her children, and the safety of others.

the children in those photos. Not to mention in the wake of incredible trauma. She had been in the ER, the police station, and witness her husband be arrested all in the same day. And then there was the weight of this. Her husband had violated her eldest daughter, an innocent kid who called him dad. Ashley knew she had to face them,

but the truth was too ugly to share. She wanted to protect them, especially of Vaya, all while feeling as though she failed them already. For the night, keeping it simple felt like the right decision. She needed to buy time to find the words. All of us knew that Jason had been struggling with his mental health. The kids sought. So when Ashley told the kids that Jason was seeking help for his mental health issues,

it made sense to them. Besides, she was exhausted and didn't have much time to recover. The very next morning, Ashley had to be. make a big presentation for work. There was a lot riding on it. Anna went with Ashley so she wouldn't be alone so soon after Jason's arrest. She hadn't told her boss what had happened. And I remember her saying, I'm not going to let this ruin my fucking career.

But I remember watching her do the presentation. And I was like, none of these people know what just happened to her. Like her life has blown up and look at her. She was up there making jokes and just confidence. and trying to engage the audience. And these people had so many questions for her and she was just on it answering all these questions. And I remember thinking,

you are a fucking badass. Like, I do not know how you're doing this. Your husband is in jail right now. Jason had been disengaging from the family, isolating himself. Ashley had grown stronger and more independent. I still am so proud of her. I don't know how she did it.

I really think something psychological like happened for her to do that. And the work that she did the year prior, maybe that's what got her through it. Ashley felt strong enough to keep it all inside. She thought she could hold everything in. She was in protection and survival mode. But then there was this.

Somebody texted her and said, it's in the news. And a man from Riverton has been arrested for 100 counts of sexual exploitation. of a minor after someone came forward after helping 40-year-old Jason Linton set up a Venmo account. And then she just let out this horrible, horrible scream. And I just remember looking at her and her whole body was like shaking. Almost like cum bull sink. I've never seen it before.

And then she just was like rocking back and forth and like putting her head and her knees. Like she looked like a crazy person. I don't even remember what I said to her. to try to calm her down. Like, I didn't not know what to do. And I've never seen my sister like that. I don't ever want to see her like that ever again. Detective Rue.

I try to prepare him a little bit for the next morning when they wake up. I'll let them know, like, hey, these cases, the news pick these cases up quick. In my mind, I'm talking to these victims and these family members, and I'm explaining things. but sometimes when you're in that situation, most of it's maybe going over your head or in one and out the other, just because you just got railroaded by your husband, you're so focused on, I don't even know what's going on.

Ashley was already managing the feelings of grief, anger, and betrayal. The added shame that came when Jason's crimes became public, it was unbearable. When this hit any ounce of pride or ego that I have, went right out the door. It was gone. I literally felt like I was just naked. And there was nothing to hide.

There's nothing to even try to explain away or make better. I was just like, okay, I understand. It didn't take long for the word to spread. Avea found out from a friend's mom. She had called her and was like, did dad take videos on me or what happened? Because the news mentioned that he had taken, I don't know if they said a video or videos of his daughters. Anna couldn't believe an adult would be so thoughtless with Abea. She was like, did your dad take videos of my daughter?

That's how she found out. It was out. Her husband was that guy. The guy you warn your kids about. Her kids knew, her friends knew. everyone knew. There was no controlling it. It was a runaway train.

On the next episode of betrayal... I am driving and I just somehow see him in his car. I called my mom because he's in the same area. He drives in those same roads at me every single day. Avaya will have her day in court and Jason will try to remain a free man. As a disclaimer, Ashley told her story about her conversation with Jason's older brother to police. And it was included as part of the affidavit of probable cause that led to Jason's arrest. His older brother's conduct as a police officer was investigated by the authorities,

and ultimately it was determined that there was insufficient evidence of any violations of law by him. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team, email us at BetrayalPod at gmail.com. That's Betrayal P-O-D at gmail.com. To report a case of child sexual exploitation, call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Cyber Tip Line, at 1-800-the-Lost. If you or someone you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards children, reach out to stopit now.org. In the United Kingdom, go to stopit now.org.org. These organizations can help.

We're grateful for your support. And one way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with IHeart Podcast. The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin.

Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman, associate producer, Kristen Mulcuri. Our I-Heart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Special thanks to our talent Ashley Litton and production assistant Tessa Shields. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalbekio, Trails theme composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Mide Music, And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from HowTo Money.

If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big deal. difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the

conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything that gay But he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all?

I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.