Betrayal - EP 26 - Kelsey Pt. 2

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

"In sickness and in health" takes on new meaning as Kelsey discovers the true nature of Morgan’s illness.    If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father. But he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK. Through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Consider this is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question.

How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education. Close it. Healthcare?

Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're gonna keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey listeners, I'm Lauren Bright-Pacheco,

host of the Murder on Songbird Road podcast, and I'm excited to share this riveting story with you. I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of Murder on Songbird Road, 100% ad-free, and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, Paper Ghosts, Murder Homes, Unrestorable, The Godmother, and more.

So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrueCrimePlus, and subscribe today. I got a Facebook message. She's like, I've been down a rabbit hole about Morgan. I have proof there's a lot more to this story. And that's when it really blew open. I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything.

This is part two of Kelsey's story. If you haven't heard part one, you should go back and listen to that first. As a listener note, names and locations have been changed to protect privacy. Almost two years into a marriage with Morgan, a seed of doubt had been planted in Kelsey's mind about her wife's terminal cancer diagnosis. It started when they were home with Kelsey's family for Christmas. Her mom had survived breast cancer, and something about Morgan's behavior wasn't adding up to her. I suddenly was like, why am I feeling like something's wrong?

And so this is the very beginning of the conversations we started having about how serious really is this. And that was when she started breaking bones. At first, it was her hip. She took the dogs out for a walk and came back and she was dragging herself back into the apartment. I was like, oh my God, what happened? She's like, I think I broke my hip. I was like, oh my God, what do we do?

Do I need to take you to the ER? And she's like, no, this happens. Like the cancer must now be in my hip. Kelsey was at a loss for what to do. But Morgan told her this was just part of the dying process. Her doctors told her to expect it. And she's like, I need to sleep, I need to sleep. So she took some drugs and then she slept

and she slept for like a week. Morgan recovered from the hip injury and went back to physical activity. A few weeks after that, she was walking again. One day when Morgan was out on a walk, she fell again. And this time she broke her elbow. I could see it, it was bruised and it had been obviously smashed.

And then she had a sling, she was healing her elbow. The broken bones became a cycle. After her elbow, Morgan broke a rib. She had fallen. And she came back and she just was like, oh my gosh, my rib, my rib, my rib. We looked at it, it was broken, and she took herself to urgent care.

She came back with x-rays showing her broken rib. The doctors told her to rest. At the time they lived in an apartment complex and they were friends with their downstairs neighbors. They usually went over every week for game night. After she had broken her rib, Morgan was at home for a couple weeks and we had missed a game night. And I had gone down personally to, you know, apologize for everything this game night and to ask how things were going. So I was in person in their apartment. I was like, explaining, oh my god, her rib. And one of them was like, oh my god, someone's got to say it. I saw her. I saw her with her rib. And I was like,

I don't know what you mean. There was a cement wall in the back of their apartment complex, and their neighbor had seen Morgan behaving strangely. And she was like, the day that she broke her rib, I saw her falling onto that cement wall, like jumping onto this wall. Her neighbor saw Morgan throwing herself against a cement wall. And it wasn't just one time. She was like, I watched her do it several times. I thought it was weird.

And I was really defensive. I was like, oh, you might have just like misunderstood the situation because that doesn't make any sense. And they're like, you need to talk to your wife about this. Kelsey felt like her neighbors were accusing her of lying. And the neighbor's story didn't make any sense. If they saw Morgan falling, why wouldn't they help her? I remember coming home and being like,

why did the neighbor think that she saw you? And she's like, it was a really big fall. I'm surprised she didn't make sure I was okay. I was like, yeah, that seems weird. Like I just get a weird vibe from them. Like I really don't think they wanna be friends with us anymore. And she's like, well, we don't wanna be friends

with anyone who think we're liars anyway. Like why would anyone lie about this? Regardless of how Morgan had broken her rib, she was clearly injured again. Morgan's doctor recommended she stay physically active. But to Kelsey, this seemed unsafe. So she told Morgan, Morgan, you have to stop leaving the house like this.

And I need to see your paperwork. Like I need to see the doctor's recommendation that this is okay because clearly it's not. And it was a huge argument. It was a huge blow up that I was too controlling, that I was obsessing over her death. And I finally was like, okay. And then I left the apartment. Kelsey went on a walk around the block,

alone, for the first time in a long time. And so I was on this walk thinking, I don't know how to manage this anymore. Between Morgan's cancer, her constant injuries, working to support them both, and her graduate school program, Kelsey couldn't take it anymore. On that walk, I called my friend

and I was like, I'm not okay. I think I need to leave. That night, Kelsey made up her mind. She was going to transfer schools and move to a new city on her own. The academic advisor called me the very next day and was like, oh, we'd love to set you up for an interview. And so I flew that Thursday and did my interview in person.

She was in a frenzy. Before she was even accepted, she made plans to move. Everything in her body was telling her to get away from Morgan. So I just literally packed everything in my car. I got a job and a place to live when I went to interview. I just moved at lightning speed. When she told Morgan she was leaving, She was just shocked. I was like, I think we just need a little bit of breather space.

You stay here. You've got everything that you need. I'll continue paying for rent here. I'll pay for your food. I'll pay for everything. But I have to go do my master's program. And then I left. She might have thought I was having a mental breakdown, because honestly, I was. That night, she drove 15 hours straight.

On my way, I called my sister. My sister was like, you are a really terrible person. I can't believe that you would leave in this way when Morgan could die at any time. At the time, she wasn't ready to share her doubts about Morgan's diagnosis with anyone else. I just felt like I didn't have enough evidence of that. I just wanted it to be behind me. Still, her sister's words made her feel horrible. Because of this guilt, Kelsey stayed in touch

with Morgan over the phone as much as she could, especially when right after her move, Kelsey needed emergency surgery for her appendix. Now the shoe was on the other foot and Kelsey needed Morgan's support. I remember calling Morgan at the ER. She's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. While Kelsey was in the hospital recovering,

she received a strange text. I actually got a text from her mom and it was almost like the fourth wall broke. The last time she had heard from Morgan's mom was before they'd gotten married. And that was over email. The emails where she called Kelsey the devil. They had never texted. And she sent the most thoughtful text to me.

It was like, I'm so sorry this is happening. We're hoping you heal. This was at odds with everything Kelsey knew about this woman. I was like, what? Like Morgan didn't have a relationship with her parents. And suddenly they knew this very intimate detail about my health. The text from Morgan's mom opened a door to what might be a different reality. She decided not to tell Morgan about it.

It suddenly felt like I was uncovering something. After Kelsey recovered from surgery, she settled into her new city. She could finally feel the relief of being away from Morgan. The next time they talked, Kelsey asked for a divorce. And to her surprise, Morgan agreed. She's like, okay, I've got a family friend who's married to a divorce lawyer, and she will start working up the divorce paperwork because I had no idea how to divorce. I just assumed it would be complicated.

So she let Morgan handle the paperwork. It was clear to both of them that their relationship was over. Morgan took it really hard. The divorce had activated her eating disorder. So she was going back into an eating disorder clinic in her home state. Kelsey felt intense guilt for leaving Morgan. She'd spent two years taking care of her. She'd seen the broken bones, the nausea, the exhaustion, all of the medications. But the more time Kelsey took for herself, the more she realized Morgan was hiding something.

What it was, she didn't know for sure. But what she did know was that she needed a fresh start. I can finally at least separate myself from whatever lie she is or is not telling herself or me. Kelsey tried to move on and put this relationship behind her. She wanted a clean slate. I felt like it was the start of a whole new chapter of my life. It was the first time I was dating someone new who didn't have a health crisis.

This is when I was in a master's program. I just loved my school. I loved being with my dog. I loved the new life I was creating. And I reflected back on the years before, and I really felt like I had missed everything. And so I felt like this was the start of something brand new. Part of that reset was acting like the relationship with Morgan never happened.

I felt stupid for having been in this dynamic for so long. It would be so much easier to start completely over if I just don't bring in this very, very complicated back story that I now had with my ex. But she still had to communicate with Morgan about the divorce paperwork. I would have to check in and be like, wait, where is this divorce happening? Like I was always just kind of like dragged back to the reality of something I really didn't wanna face.

As the months went by, the divorce still hadn't been finalized. And throughout this whole time period, there'd be times where I was like checking in and Morgan would be like, oh, I'm filing paperwork and it's still being processed. While Kelsey was in the middle of her emotional recovery, she got a red envelope in the mail.

I started getting collection notices. The first big one was the car. Morgan had stopped paying her car payment, so it went to collections. Kelsey assumed, Like, she's getting the same notification, so she's going to pay for it, right? That was the first notification.

And then I started getting mail constantly. Phone bills, credit card debts, things that had my name and her name on together. And it was significant. It was like thousands and thousands of dollars. The notices weren't slowing down and the debt was impacting Kelsey's credit. I was just starting to get really frustrated.

I was like, how, how is this happening? So the very first thing I did was try to contact her. She didn't answer. She had blocked me. Morgan had blocked her and their divorce still wasn't finalized. So Kelsey decided to take matters into her own hands. So I paid an attorney to check all the legal processes in every state we had lived in to see if they had started divorce paperwork at all. And Morgan had never, ever filed.

Morgan told Kelsey with confidence that she had filed for divorce. And Kelsey believed her, trusted her. I was like, there's no way she would lie about this. But she had lied. Kelsey's lawyer had the proof. The time Kelsey spent trying to put Morgan behind her now came with a price. Oh my God, I have been avoiding the reality of this forever.

Like I haven't ever thought to check anything regarding her divorce paperwork. I didn't know to, like, flag her on any of my banks to not have access to my stuff. Like, we were legally married. And so suddenly I realized there were so many connections that I still had her and didn't know the gravity of until I was presenting this lawyer, this debt paperwork. Morgan's debt had piled up to an astonishing number. Just the payoff alone, like just what I knew collectors had sent to me

that was dingy on my credit report was about 60,000. Kelsey hadn't been able to reach Morgan. She had no idea where she was living. But she was clearly still alive, charging credit cards with Kelsey's name on them. So they hired a private investigator to track Morgan down and serve her the paperwork. My lawyer sent the paperwork to her, and she signed.

So now I could also file a financial restraining order against her. I remember leaving the courthouse and just sobbing, like walking into my car and just crying. It was the first time I had like a binder in my hands with our marriage certificate and our divorce decree. And I finally could put a stop to anything more happening. With the divorce decree in hand, Kelsey believed that Morgan and the chaos that came with her was now truly behind her.

She wasn't avoiding it anymore. I was really surprised when in late 2020, I got a Facebook message from Joanne. It was Morgan's mentor, the woman who'd been like a second mother to her. Kelsey hadn't spoken to her since that awkward road trip visit years ago. Joanne said she needed to speak with Kelsey. It was urgent. So we get on a Facebook video call and she's like, a couple months ago I was listening to a podcast about factitious disorder and it just sounds so much like Morgan that I just like couldn't shake this feeling.

Factitious disorder is the official term for Munchausen syndrome, which is when someone fakes being sick for sympathy and attention. Joanne went on to explain. I've been down a rabbit hole about Morgan and I have proof that she had been diagnosed with fictitious disorder before she ever met you. And I had proof that she was faking, breaking her bones.

He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father. He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door. But he was leading a double life. He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses. He could get into their home, take something, and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful.

He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

to your favorite shows. Consider this is a daily news podcast, and lately the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education, close it. Healthcare? Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country.

Promises made, promises kept. We're gonna keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Beautiful young women full of life and dreams murdered or vanished without a trace. Their families left with nothing but heartbreak, questions and memories. I'm Nancy Grace. This week on Crime Stories, we uncover the truth behind these unsolved cases. We work to bring justice and answers to grieving families. Please don't miss Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Listen on the iHeart

radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just as Kelsey was finally feeling in control of her life, she got a Facebook message out of the blue. It was from Joanne, Morgan's mentor. Joanne had uncovered something that she needed to share with Kelsey. This is when she broke down all of her findings. She could on paper point two and say like, no, I got this record. This was a lie.

And this statement from this person's a lie. Joanne had met Morgan when Morgan was a college athlete. She'd taken Morgan in when she was going through a hard time with her family. And Joanne was there when Morgan broke her wrist for the first time. When Morgan came back from the hospital in a cast, she told Joanne the doctors had found bone cancer. Morgan had told Joanne that she needed to start cancer treatments.

And so she had supplies that she had brought back. And she was having Joanne administer cancer treatment intravenously. That's why Joanne had confirmed to me that she had cancer because she's like, yeah, I was doing treatments with her when she had cancer. It was really scary. And so they bonded over that. It was like, oh my gosh, of course I'll help you, you're away from family.

This all happened before Kelsey ever met Morgan. Now, years later, Joanne was coming to Kelsey with proof that the story they'd both been told was a lie. Joanne had found out that Morgan had secured saline and like supplies to give herself IV treatments, but they were never actual treatments. Joanne got medical records that told the real story. What was actually happening?

Morgan would come out of the hospital, like having fixed her broken wrist, and then would break it again and tell everyone that it was cancer related, that her cancer had come back. But in reality, she was going back to the doctor and being like, oh, my broken bone, will you fix it? And they would fix it, but after four or five times of this happening during that school year, they had actually had to blacklist her from the hospital because she had like exhausted the hospitals in that area. It was a bombshell finding.

Refusing care and blacklisting someone from a hospital is a very big deal. The fact that Morgan had been assigned this label and not allowed to get treatment at these hospitals anymore was like a really serious thing. And they had officially listed it as factitious. At the time it was called Munchausen. That's how they formally called it.

On her record, like, do not treat her. This is unhealthy. And they had kept encouraging her to get psychiatric care. But according to the records Joanne had, Morgan didn't get psychiatric care. Instead, she went to summer camp. And so after lying about it to all the doctors in the city of her college, this is the summer that she met me. After Morgan and Kelsey met,

Morgan didn't need Joanne anymore. She had a new caretaker. The tension Kelsey witnessed between Morgan and Joanne when she saw them the last time was real. Joanne was starting to question Morgan's story. Joanne was mutual friends with someone and that person didn't even know that Morgan was dying of cancer.

She just started kind of hitting parts of the story that didn't make a lot of sense. That's why she kept trying to like tell me something but felt like she didn't have enough proof to tell me. But now Joanne had the proof and the two of them could begin piecing everything together. We started comparing stories and realized there's a lot more to this story than we even know between the two of us. A key component of Morgan pulling off this deception

was keeping people isolated from each other. If Kelsey and Joanne were going to find the truth, they needed to connect with other people in Morgan's life. This is where it really blew open. Kelsey went back to the very beginning, to the mutual friend who vouched for Morgan at camp. Even my friend from camp knew one version of the story. She had never mentioned having cancer ever to this friend.

So that was the first like, oh, she was lying from the very beginning. Even parts of the story that Kelsey never questioned before now seemed like they could be lies. Starting with the letter Morgan said she received from the camp director, warning her that her eating disorder was interfering with her job performance. She had never been talked to by camp staff about being removed from camp, ever. That was never even a conversation. No one actually knew anything about her eating disorder.

Kelsey couldn't believe this fundamental part of their origin story could be fabricated. But the lie was confirmed when she discovered she had never been hospitalized for an eating disorder. The clinic that she gave me was a fake name. Every new person Kelsey talked to had been told a different story. Sometimes it was an entirely different story. It wasn't always cancer that the lie was about. It was oftentimes, oh I found my birth mother. So there was like a birth mother network of lies. One lie in particular was

extremely difficult for Kelsey to accept. Morgan had actually maintained a relationship with her family the whole time I knew her. Kelsey tracked down Morgan's siblings. That's when she learned her family had no idea about Morgan's cancer. And when Morgan told the family she was dating a woman, everyone was accepting of her. So who sent the hate emails? I did some digging on the emails that her parents had been sending me. And all of them went back to the same computer

that I had bought her, which meant that all of the emails that her parents had sent me when we first started dating were from Morgan. Morgan had written them. This hateful, homophobic rhetoric came from my partner. rhetoric came from my partner. That was so devastating because I had such trauma and so much internalized shame for being gay. So much of Kelsey's decision to support Morgan

was because she had no family left. They'd all disowned her because she was gay. It was just lie on top of lie. Every single component of the intensity, like the first four months of knowing her, was completely fabricated in every way. At the time, all of the intensity felt very real to Kelsey. From the hate emails, to Morgan's symptoms, the fatigue, the vomiting. How could Morgan fake all of that? Well, Kelsey found out.

I learned that she was taking medications that made her throw up, that made her relate with Thargeic, her seizure meds. I learned that she would steal medications. Morgan didn't come up with the whole plan by herself. She had source material. This is when I had seen the movie The Fault in Our Stars and realized that she was feeding me the same lines from the book and from the movie. The Fault in Our Stars is a book by John Green that was adapted into a film. It follows two teenagers with terminal cancer.

Some of the exact lines from the movie were things Morgan had said to her, like claiming that her cancer scans, quote, lit up like a Christmas tree. Kelsey felt like her relationship had been scripted. My entire existence with her was a lie. All of it. Now that Kelsey had broken open Morgan's lies, she wanted to make sure that there were no remaining ties with her. She discovered there was still one bank account open that they shared. It was an account Kelsey never knew about, but her name was on it. In order to close

the account, she had to move the money out of it. It was technically my account to close because we were both on it. There was $20,000 in this account. All of Morgan's checking and savings. I suddenly had access to all of her money. After all these years of piecing this story together, like I suddenly have access to everything. In order to close it, I had to put the money somewhere. So I had to do something with the money. So she asked her friends and family what to do. Everyone was like, keep the money.

Like that is your money. She couldn't dispute it, even if she wanted to. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm not taking any of that bad karma. Kelsey had financially supported Morgan for years. When they separated, she took on $60,000 of Morgan's debt. Even after all of that, Kelsey decided to send the money back to Morgan. She was ready to wash her hands of the whole thing.

I sent her a letter along with the check. And I said, I paid off everything you owed. I could have taken thousands and thousands. I could have taken everything and it still would not be a drop in the bucket of what money you took from me. You lied to me. I know every lie you've ever told. Never talk to me again.

And I really hope that you're getting the help that you need. And that was the last thing I said. He was a Boy Scout leader, a church deacon, a husband, a father. He went to a local church. He was going to the grocery store with us. He was the guy next door. But he was leading a double life.

He was certainly a peeping Tom, looking through the windows, looking at people, fantasizing about what he could do. He then began entering the houses. He could get into their home, take something and get out and not be caught. He felt very powerful. He was a monster hiding in plain sight. Someone killed four members of a family. It just didn't happen here. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers BTK through the voices of the people who know him best listen to monster BTK on

the I heart radio app Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows consider this is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? What will change look like for energy? Schools? Healthcare? Follow coverage of a changing country on Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Beautiful young women full of life and dreams murdered or vanished without a trace. Their families left with nothing but heartbreak, questions and memories. I'm Nancy Grace.

This week on Crime Stories, we uncover finally free of Morgan and her deception, liberated from the lies, the financial and emotional burden that she endured. Today, Kelsey thinks back on the innocent woman at Girl Scout Camp, who walked right into Morgan's web. Like I was the perfect person for Morgan to meet at camp. Could not have been more perfect. Like a history of family dysfunction, the tendency to get in relationships where I'm caregiving and I had a mom who had cancer. Before Morgan, Kelsey had never even heard about abuse in a lesbian relationship.

So as a queer person, I almost felt safer with women than I ever felt with men. Like I never thought that that would happen to me in this intimate or precise or manipulative way. For a long time, Kelsey struggled to tell other people what she went through. Would they believe her? Would they judge her? A common question I get is, how did you not know? Or if you were married, how did you not know the medicine or the doctors? Especially because this story with Morgan is so extreme. I agree, if I was on the outside, I listened to plenty of true crimes and factitious disorder stuff that

I'm like, obviously you would know. So how did she not know? Well, the short answer is that she believed a woman she loved. The question used to bother her, but now she understands where it's coming from. I really think it comes from a deep desire to feel like it couldn't happen to us. And more than that, it comes from this desire of like protecting ourselves, hearing other people's pain. And I can sympathize with that completely. When she does tell the story to other people,

she notices her own shame. Whenever I cringe telling this story, I've had to pause and ask myself what part of me is cringing. And the part of me that's cringing is always coming from a shameful, guilty place. It's a relatable experience. All of us can point to a moment in our lives and cringe at our choices. Kelsey's come to realize shame doesn't work. All of us can point to a moment in our lives and cringe at our choices. Kelsey's come to realize shame doesn't work. Shame has never been a motivator of change for me.

She's had to reflect on her own part in the relationship. Those key moments where she chose to stay with Morgan, even when she knew something wasn't right. It's so easy to hear my story and be like, this terrible thing happened to this great person. And to be honest, I have had to reckon with my own inner demons about this. Like what parts of me were attracted to a person

that needed to be taken care of? I can reflect back on a lot of my early childhood where to be caregiving and to be codependent in that way were very much rewarded. So it's not just like, wow, this terrible thing happened to me. Truly it's like, I can see what I said yes to in this complicity.

I can see where I turned an eye away from what I knew in my body was the truth because I didn't wanna lose something I loved was the truth because I didn't want to lose something I loved or I'm embarrassed I didn't leave sooner because I was afraid of what it would look like and it's true Kelsey has cultivated sympathy for the younger version of herself who made those choices After all she was acting out of love When I hear other people's horrific stories of things that have happened to them, I now have a lens of what a human experience to love so deeply that we're willing to suspend

disbelief that high is like. I truly believe that deception really comes from a deep desire to be loved and I can sympathize with the desire to be loved. There's a meta element to Kelsey's story. It was a podcast that helped Joanne and then Kelsey discover the truth. And I remember listening to that podcast and thinking like, that is so brave

because I was so embarrassed about my own story. I still struggle with that with myself, but it's like, I want there to be less stigma around manipulative relationships. Kelsey feels like it's come full circle. She's telling her own story now for someone else who needs to hear it. We end all of our episodes with the same question.

Why did you want to tell your story? I didn't want to tell the story ever again. The thing that made me is knowing that it took me so many years to untangle myself from the shame of not recognizing that as trauma sooner. But there are so many little things that feel important to say out loud that we should be making more space for people to be critical of their interpersonal relationships without shame.

Like if that trust has been breached, then it's time to go. You don't have to wait for evidence to leave. I think we need more models of that happening. And so I truly believe that I can reflect this story with love and also hold someone accountable for doing something truly terrible. On the next episode of Betrayal.

If he can lie about that, he can lie about anything. He used his dead mother's name, he used his dead father's name, he used, I think, think his aunt he used my name all these people If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story Email us at betrayal pod at gmail.com. That's betrayal pod at gmail.com We're grateful for your support.

One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Kristen Malkuri and Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional editing support

from Tanner Robbins. Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIBE Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He was a Boy Scout leader, a husband, a father, but he was leading a double life. He was a monster, hiding in plain sight. Journey inside the mind of one of history's most notorious killers, BTK, through the voices of the people who know him best. Listen to Monster BTK on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Consider this is a daily news podcast and lately the news is about a big question. How much can one guy change? They want change. What will change look like for energy? Drill, baby drill. Schools? Take the Department of Education, close it. Health care?

Better and less expensive. Follow coverage of a changing country. Promises made, promises kept. We're going to keep our promises. On Consider This from NPR. Listen on the iHeart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts. and one week early through the iHeart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, The Girlfriends, Paper Ghosts, Murder Homes, Unrestorable,

The Godmother, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.