Betrayal - Mackenzie | Betrayal Weekly

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

Growing up, Mackenzie and her older sister Leigh were inseparable. Then, a Facebook friend request sets off a chain of lies that would change both of their lives and relationship forever.    If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod  To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. On the podcast health stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. I'm Dr. Priyanko Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3 a.m? And on our show, we're talking about health in a different way, like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type two?

Extremely. Listen to Health Stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Two rich young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over, but one of them will end up dead and the other tried for murder three times. It starts with a dream, a nature reserve, and a spectacular new home. But little by little, they lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything's super. spins out of control.

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Big Take podcast from Bloomberg News keeps you on top of the biggest stories of the day. My fellow Americans, this is Liberation Day. Stories that move markets. Chair Powell opened the door to this first interest rate cut. Impact politics, change businesses. This is a really stunning development for the AI world and how you think about your bottom line.

Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents and brutal murders. what seems to be a plot ripped straight out of breaking bad drugs alcohol trafficking of people there are people out there that absolutely know what happened listen to paper ghosts the texas teen murders on the iHeart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts

I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying, I can't believe it, I can't believe it. There's no way, there's no way. And the first thing I do is get my phone, and I probably said, like, I fucking hate you or something. What she replies back is, where are you right now? Not, what are you talking about? I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most, and the deceptions that change everything.

I can go to a wedding who I don't know. I cry. First dances with dads, dead. That's McKenzie. She's the kind of person who has. has a hard exterior, but is a big softie on the inside. I'm on the floor. It's still a big baby.

I just love love. And she has a story unlike any we've ever heard. It starts as the story of two sisters, McKenzie and her older sister, who were calling Lee. She was my very best friend. Shared a bedroom. We would dance and sing to Backstreet Boys and Instinct. All the time.

As kids, McKenzie and Lee did everything together. We were attached at the hip for a long time. She used to make me come to her sleepovers because she would get homesick. So me as an eight-year-olds would be coming along to these, like, cool, pre-teen sleepovers with all of her best friends. Even though McKenzie was three years younger than Lee. I was the bigger little sister, so I was taller than Lee. I acted like the older sibling. So I would take care of her.

For a while, McKenzie tried to be just like her older sister. She had so many friends and all of her friends were pretty. And she had so many guy friends and so many guys liked her. So I just always wanted to be in her realm to see how does she do it? Because I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to connect with men. So I'm watching her with boys. I was, oh, I got to watch my big sister. But as they grew up, McKenzie became her own person.

I was a tomboy. I don't want to wear dress. I was very athletic and very good at softball. My goal at that point was I'm going to get a scholarship, go to school in the States, and then I wanted to try to get to the Olympics with Team Canada. Softball became McKenzie's life. Her sister played too, but she didn't take it as seriously as McKenzie. She played high level, so she had tournaments and stuff, but she was a huge.

huge partyer in high school. McKenzie was three years younger. They were in different stages of their life. Lee's off, getting drunk in a field somewhere, and I'm the one that's like, can I have $20 to do movies on Friday? Lee was cool, but she wasn't too cool to have her younger sister around.

This is my cool sister. Like, she's graduated, and we're listening to lose that by Eminem on the car in our Toyota Echo. After Lee graduated from high school, she moved in with her boyfriend. And then he cheated on her. So she ends up moving back home. It was the early 2000s, and Facebook was brand new.

Everyone was navigating social media for the first time. And of course, Lee's pretty, so she had something upwards like 2,000 friends. And I remember Lee came to me. It was like, oh, I'm talking to this guy that added me on Facebook. Lee showed McKenzie a photo of the guy who had reached out to her. His name was Ryan. He was very good-looking and muscular, kind of a buzz cut, dark eyes, really nice smile, ripped, all that kind of stuff when you're 19, turning 20 you're looking for. But it wasn't just about Ryan's looks.

Lee had been sharing her writing on Facebook, and he had taken the time to read it. She's like, he messaged me, saying he really clicked with my poetry, and he really liked it. It was sweet. Mackenzie looked at Ryan's Facebook profile and noticed that they had a shared mutual friend. Lee's softball teammate, Amy. And I was like, oh, well, did you talk to Amy? And Lee, she's like, yeah, actually she texted me and said, oh, how do you know Ryan? And obviously, Lee's like, well, I don't.

He had me on Facebook. It was reassuring for Lee to talk to somebody that knew Ryan in real life. Amy's like, oh, when I was in Calgary, he was living there and we worked together for like a year. And he's one of my really good friends. He's such a good guy. Lee and Ryan started talking. They got along really well and would spend hours each day messaging back and forth. Even though they lived in different cities, they found creative ways.

to have long-distance dates. Within a few months, they are literally Facebook official. They both have it on their Facebook. In December of 2009, McKenzie was going through her first real breakup. Lee encouraged her to get back on the dating scene. Lee's like, oh, Ryan wants to talk to you.

And I'm like, why isn't going to talk to me? Like, I don't know. He says he has a cousin that you'd really like. And I'm like, oh, okay. Ryan reached out to McKenzie to vouch for his cousin. You guys would really get along. He really likes baseball, all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, okay, if you're vouching for him, Ryan's a great guy, so I'm going to listen.

McKenzie decided to give this guy a shot. His name was Matt. He and Ryan both lived on the east coast of Canada, which was far away from the sisters. So it wasn't like just getting in the car and drive here. It was airplane, six-enter flight type of deal. After dating long day, since for months, Ryan started planning his first trip to visit Lee. He was supposed to come Christmas Eve, so we were looking forward to meeting him.

My parents were like, okay with him staying here. But then... Four days before he messages Lee and tells her that he can't come. Ryan's mom had cancer, and her health had started declining. He was no longer willing to miss Christmas with her. Lee is beside herself. She's absolutely heartbroken. because this was going to be their first meeting.

Ryan felt horrible for canceling the trip to. He had a special Christmas gift planned for Lee. And in order to make sure it got to her on time, he solicited the help of their mutual friend Amy. Christmas Eve rolls around and Amy shows up with this box, hands it to Lee, and it's a buildbear. And in the card, it says, because I can't be there, and this is my replacement, like,

hug him and sleep with him. So that night on, she's sleeping with despair. Every sleep of light. As Lee and her boyfriend Ryan got more serious, McKenzie was starting to develop a crush on his cousin Matt. He'd become a part of her daily life. He was always, you know, messaging me every morning, making sure I got up and pushing me to go to my practices and stuff like that.

And then we would talk baseball because he was the Yankees fan. I'm a Blue Jays fan. So we would kind of chirp each other. about baseball a lot. But Matt wanted their relationship to be deeper than just chatting about sports. It just kind of slowly turned into

like him kind of saying, I want to date you. I want to be with you. McKenzie felt the same way. But she really wanted to meet him in person before they made things official. I am very big on face-to-face interaction. I need to have that connection

before I can say we can be boyfriend and girlfriend type deal. McKenzie was cautious, but Matt was really making an effort, and that meant a lot to her. Their jokes and sports banter turned to deeper conversations and a real connection. Validating my feelings and making sure I feel hurt, and he would call me babe and baby and all that kind of stuff. Matt and Ryan hung out a lot and sent the girls' photos of their adventures, hiking together, spending time with family, or just small moments in their daily room. routines. Their friend Amy was happy her matchmaking skills had been such a success.

Amy is talking with Lee sporadically checking in on how her and Ryan are doing and that kind of stuff. Plus, it was kind of fun for McKenzie and Lee to be dating cousins. Me and Lee will say we're watching a movie and then we have Matt and Ryan pressing play on the same time. They'd watch rom-coms together. It was sweet, but Lee and McKenzie were growing tired of the long distance. They would try to plan visits with Matt and Ryan, but it never seemed to be the right time.

It was just always, no, you know this. My mom's immune compromise. You can't come here. There's no place for you to stay right now. I'm trying to figure out stuff with my mom. I have classes too often. I'm going to be working too much. I'm like, holy shit, they have such a hard life.

And then, wow, I'm such a bad person for trying to put my feelings first. Lee had never had an online relationship before. It was taking a toll on her. It was endless of her drinking, coming home, and she's crying, and she's coming into my bedroom. And she's talking about, oh, she's fighting with Ryan. And it's her, you know, missing shifts at work. Her friends are now very few and far between. and they don't believe that you can fall in love with somebody over the internet.

So Lee is now, at this point, you know, she's losing her best friend. She's losing her friend group, the people that she usually turns to. I'm now her best friend because I'm in a similar circumstance. The whole situation brought the sisters closer together. McKenzie was at a crossroads. She was graduating high school and thinking about her future. McKenzie had spent her whole life working towards a career as a professional. professional softball player. And now, she was debating if that was the right choice.

I just kind of, I got to the point where I didn't want to be just, that's all my identity was, because my identity, that's all people associated me with. Mackenzie just plays softball. That's what she does. So McKenzie made a hard decision. She decided not to go to college. I'm not going to take any of my scholarships. If she wasn't in school, she would need a job. When she was lost on what to do, Matt had an idea. Matt let me know that Amy works for a construction company, and she can probably get me a job. Amy worked in construction, and Matt did too. He told McKenzie more about how the industry worked.

I was like, oh, yeah, that's totally at my alley. Different every day, you're going to different job sites and all that kind of stuff. So I was like, yeah, perfect. Matt says, hey, just give her a text, and she can probably get her. you a job. She texted Amy and submitted her resume. Two weeks later, she was hired for the job. My first day, too, I was super nervous. Amy offered to come on a day off, introduced me to everybody that worked there. Day was like, wow, she's really down to earth. She's really chill. You know, she's a tomboy like me. Very easy to talk to, funny, that kind of stuff. I can't

believe she would go out of her way to try to make me feel comfortable. that's really nice of her. From that point on, we became best friends pretty quickly. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night. Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I have scurvy at 3 a.m? On health stuff, we're talking about health in a different way.

It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are.

Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible but like you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know. It's going to be a fun ride.

So tune in. Listen to health stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the new Pocom, Last hell in heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead.

The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive, and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the

top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble. And our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to hell in heaven on the I-heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The force is shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them. And even harder to understand.

Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in to connect the dots. How unusual is a deal like this? Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon. we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market

to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing. They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation.

Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night. Along the central Texas plains, teens are dying, suicides that don't make sense, strange accidents, and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. Drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people.

There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to Paper Ghosts, the Texas Teen Murders, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After graduating high school, McKenzie took a job in construction with a mutual friend named Amy. Amy had played softball in high school with McKenzie's sister Lee. But the sisters also knew her through their long-distance boyfriends. And over time, McKenzie's friendship with Amy grew. We'd work together almost every day. She'd come over to our house a lot.

She was very funny and she was very outgoing and just easy to be around. She would come over. We'd watch Jersey Shore every Thursday together. Jersey's, you know, fist bumps, push up chapstick. It was the best. and her and I, like, I could just be me, and she was the same. So we fed off each other. You just have two frigging weird people together, and that's a vibe.

Amy never really dated anyone. When McKenzie asked her about it, she explained that it was because of her faith. She's like, I just, I'm Christian and literally wearing a purity ring, like, Jonas Brothers stuff. Shout out to Jonas Brothers. and she, but she had a cross on. She was like, that's just how I was raised. But McKenzie liked sharing her love life with Amy, especially because Amy knew her boyfriend.

He was my kind of outlet being like, why is Matt being crazy today? I need you to talk to him. We're same with Lee. McKenzie and Matt's relationship was steady, but Lee and Ryan were really struggling with the distance because Ryan still hadn't come to visit. Every other day they're arguing, like, why aren't you coming here?

And you know my mom's sick. You know I was in a car accident. You know Matt's not doing well. It was very much telling Lee, why are you making me feel bad when my life is in shambles and you're supposed to be supporting me? You're supposed to be my better half. For McKenzie's 19th birthday,

Lee and Amy decided to take her out to a bar to celebrate, But as soon as they got there, Lee's arguing with Ryan, even on my birthday. They're BBMing each other. He's getting mad at her that she's drinking, saying she's drinking too much. Amy's being super weird. McKenzie chalked it up to the fact that Amy didn't drink.

She's like, I need to leave. And I'm kind of like, we just got here. I just had my second beer. She left my birthday, and then the whole night, Lee and Ryan are arguing. The relationship between Lee and Ryan was just plain unhealthy. Lee is now not going out with her friends.

Her friends didn't get the online relationship why she was adamant that she had to be with this man. This was her B.L. Endall. She's not leaving her room. I can hear her crying herself to sleep most nights. I can hear... She'll send videos to him of her crying and yelling and stuff like that. McKenzie would talk to Amy

about her and Lee's relationship issues. But often, Amy would side with the guys. I'm at work, and Amy's being weird and super angry. And I'm like, what is wrong? I understand Ryan's your best friend, but you don't need to involve yourself that much into their arguments. I would be talking with Matman, I would say something,

and it would piss him off. And sure enough, Amy's giving me the cold shoulder. and it just was like this cycle of toxicity. Amy couldn't help but get involved in their relationships, especially Lee and Ryan's. We would be on a drive, and then Amy would just turn to me and be like, so your sister and Ryan are fighting? And I'm like, when are they not fighting?

And she's like, yeah, what is your sister said about Ryan? Like, what does she feel? And I'm like, she's in love. him I don't think it really matters well I think I think it does matter and I'm like well it's not your relationships I don't I don't understand why you're asking this well is she talking to any guys when she goes out and I'm like no I don't see it she's well you go with her sometimes you go to the bars I'm like um I don't think it matters Amy like we're literally we're going to get we're gonna sound 11 we're getting

Slurkees and we're getting a $2 candy bag. We don't need to worry about this right now. It was weird how Amy would involve herself, but McKenzie tried to ignore it. At this point in their friendship, it was 2010. A documentary came out that everybody was talking about. Ryan recommended it to Lee. It was called catfish. And we never heard the term.

These days, catfishing stories feel like a part of the zeitgeist. But back in 2010, this was a brand new concept. Facebook's fresh out the gate. We all are kind of getting used to what's going on. Instagram is not even out yet. You trust that everyone is who they say they are. McKenzie was curious about the catfish documentary. I had talked to Matt, and Matt's like, yeah.

I watch it. It's a really good movie. I think it's something you guys should watch to put your mind at ease about us. We have Amy then saying, oh, we can watch it together. So now it's me, Lee, and Amy, and we're watching Catfish together. I couldn't even imagine if that happened to us. That would be devastating. Lee is just, like, I'm so glad I found the love of my life I'm going to marry and have kids with.

I'm glad he told us to watch this movie together. I would be absolutely mortified if that ever happened to me. I can't believe he didn't see the song. At first, it was fun that McKenzie and Lee's boyfriends were cousins, and that their best friend Amy knew the guys too. All of her favorite people knew each other. But as time went on, McKenzie started to feel like she was stuck in the middle of a complicated web. As Lee's relationship with Ryan got worse, it became too much drama for McKenzie.

Lee's fighting with Ryan, and then Ryan's trying to talk to me because he wants me to, you know, calm her death. and then I have Matt talking to me, saying this is really bad for Lee and Ryan, you need to help. And then I have freaking Amy also being like, Ryan told me they're fighting. And I'm like, I can't do this anymore. So in January of 2011, McKenzie broke up with Matt. She told Lee that she needed space from the whole situation, especially her sister's toxic relationship. When I stopped talking to Matt, I think that was. really, really hard on her because at this point, I just can't listen to it. And so now, you know,

she's alone in this, essentially. Mackenzie saw the damage that Lee's relationship with Ryan was causing. She hardly recognized her vibrant, outgoing older sister. It just progressively was just her shutting herself off from the rest of the world. You can see her just deteriorating. She got really, really, really skinny. And it just was, yeah, it's heartbreaking. McKenzie wasn't in a rush to be in another relationship. Matt, on the other hand, wasted no time finding a new girlfriend. One of my best friends approached me and she said, hey, I just want to let you know that Matt has messaged me and are you okay if we start talking? And I was like, you know what, girl, if you want that freaking bag of worms, you want, you

want all that drama? All the power to you, sister. So they started talking. But after a few months, McKenzie's friend noticed something weird about her conversations with Matt. She brought up the fact that when her and Amy hang out and she would text Matt, it seemed like Amy's bone was going off. It would vibrate when he was messaging Matt. I kind of brushed it off. I said, honestly, I think it might just be a coincidence. Her and Matt and Ryan are always talking.

Amy's also always talking to me. It's probably just that kind of thing. And she's like, yay, right. But later that night, doubt started to creep into McKenzie's mind. For the first time, she let herself consider the question, what if Matt and Ryan weren't real? As she thought back on their relationship, little details that seemed like nothing at the time all started to add up.

All the gifts we've gotten are hand given to us from Amy, never in the mail, never got an address. And then I had a blanket that was handmade from Matt. And Amy has the same exact handmade blanket that she made. Matt and Ryan also work for a construction company that is exactly the same as what Amy and I did. Finally, it all clicked. I just was like, yeah, I think Amy is Matt. Could this be true?

Were the sisters talking to Amy the entire time? Could Amy have invented not one but two fake boyfriends? McKenzie needed proof. Now McKenzie is a detective. and I am all over this. McKenzie knew that Ryan would often send Lee photos of the construction sites he worked at. I ended up messaging Lee, and I said,

if he sends you any photos of job sites he's at, please send them to me. Ryan worked in construction all the way across the country in eastern Canada. If he was really who he said he was, McKenzie should have no way of recognizing the site. But if it was really Amy, this could be McKenzie's chance to catch her in a lie. And finally, she got a clue.

Lee forwarded a photo Ryan had sent her. He said it was from one of his work sites. It's this picture of this really, really high-end bar of a really, really nice house. The light picture is super unique. You'll never see it in any other type of house. I texted Lee and I said Oh did Ryan send you this today And she goes oh yeah he just sent it to me

He said he wants to put that in our house He's going to build it for me And so what I do Is I take that photo and there's one person That I work with that I told my suspicions of And so I emailed it to her And I said you're working with Amy today Is this the site you're at

And my co-worker and this is me back. I'm so sorry, McKenzie. I saw Amy sit down, take a photo of that light picture and talk about how much she liked it and how she wants it in her future house one day. On the podcast Health Stuff, we are tackling all the health questions that keep you up at night.

Yes, I'm Dr. Priyanka Wally, a double board certified physician. And I'm Hurricane Dibolu, a comedian and someone who once Googled, Do I Have Scurvy at 3 a.m? On Health Stuff, we're talking about health in a different way. It's not only about what we can do to improve our health. But also what our health says about us and the way we're living. Like our episode where we look at diabetes. In the United States, I mean, 50% of America,

Americans are pre-diabetic. How preventable is type 2? Extremely. Or our in-depth analysis of how incredible mangoes are. Oh, it's hard to explain to the rest of the world that you, like, your mangoes are fine because mangoes are incredible, but like, you don't even know. You don't know. You don't know.

It's going to be a fun ride. So tune in. Listen to health stuff on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans moved to the Costa Rican jungle to start over. But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once.

People went wild. Not twice. Stunned. But three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive and they're devoted to each other. They create a nature. reserve and build a spectacular, circular home high on the top of a hill. But little by little, their dream starts to crumble.

And our couple retreat from reality. They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The forces shaping the world's economies and financial markets can be hard to spot. Even though they are such a powerful player in finance, you wouldn't really know that you are interacting with them.

And even harder to understand. Donald Trump's trade war, 2.0, is only accelerating the process of de-dollarization, which in a way is jargon for people turning away from the dollar. That is where the big take from Bloomberg podcast comes in, to connect the dots. Unusual is a deal like this. Unprecedented. Every weekday afternoon, we dive deep into one big global business story. The biggest story of the reaction of the oil market to the conflict in the Middle East is one of what has not happened. Katie, you told me that ETFs are your favorite thing.

They are. Explain that. Why is that the case? And unpack what it means for you. Our breakfast foods are consistent consumer staples, and so they sort of become outsized indicators of inflation. Listen to the big take from Bloomberg News every weekday afternoon on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And she said, Johnny, the kids didn't come home last night.

Along the central Texas planes, teens are dying. Suicides that don't make sense. Strange accidents and brutal murders. In what seems to be, a plot ripped straight out of Breaking Bad. drugs, alcohol, trafficking of people. There are people out there that absolutely know what happened. Listen to paper ghosts, the Texas teen murders. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Mackenzie suspected her friend Amy might be catfishing both her and her sister Lee. One day, her sister's boyfriend sent her a photo of a light fixture. and said he wanted it to be in their future house one day. Mackenzie texted her coworker who was working on site with Amy and asked if the photo looked familiar. And my coworker sends me back. I'm so sorry, McKenzie. I saw Amy sit down,

take a photo of that light fixture and talk about how much she liked it and how she wants it in her future house one day. McKenzie was mad. I literally just saw red. I started crying and kept saying, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. There's no way. She grabbed her phone and texted Amy.

I said, I can't believe you could watch my sister fall into this deep depression for two years, lose all of her friends. Amy responded right away. What she replies back is, where are you right now? I'm coming to see you. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no. I don't want to see you. Next, McKenzie called her sister. She had to break the news that her boyfriend, who she had been in love with for years,

was actually their friend, Amy, hiding behind a screen. I called Lee right away, and I told her. And when we got home, And I was telling my parents, Lee was basically just sitting on the couch, not really having a reaction. And she was like, no, I'm talking with Ryan. He's real. Maybe Matt's her, but Ryan's real. McKenzie was stunned.

She was not prepared for this reaction. And I'm like, Lee, what are you talking about? It's all here. It does how you can't have Matt without the other. That's like, what do you mean? I was so mad because I'm giving you. the reasoning of why we haven't seen these people. Finally, they had answers, but Lee didn't want to hear them.

Nobody could say anything to her. She'd be like, no, that's just not true. Because she was so infatuated in love with this man. They've talked about their wedding. They had their names of their kids picked out. Lee felt so far away. Nothing McKenzie said seemed to reach her. She was used to sharing everything with her older sister.

Lee was the only person who understood every inch of her world. But in that moment, it felt like they were on different planets. Which kind of began the deterioration of our friendship, me and my sister, was how angry I was and how she continued to believe that this individual was a real person. McKenzie knew that in order for her sister to come to terms with the truth, Lee would need to hear it from Amy herself. So they decided to confront Amy at her home. Amy wouldn't come out of the house.

We met with her mom. And her mom had no idea who Matt Ryan are. Even though she said that Matt Ryan know her mom and all this stuff. Amy finally came out after half an hour and said that Matt isn't real. Matt is my friend, Sam, but Ryan is real. Looks Lee straightly, I swear to you, he is real. I've touched him. McKenzie was fuming.

Amy had spent years tricking her and her sister into falling in love with guys that didn't exist. She had controlled their lives, manipulated their emotions, caused Lee's health to deteriorate. And now, when they had proof of her betrayal, she was still standing in front of them and denying it. I looked at Amy and I said, so your friend Sam started talking to me as a joke. And she said, yeah. And I said, and you knew he was talking to me as a joke. And she said, yes. And I'm like, and you knew.

I was going through depression and getting diagnosed with anxiety. And she said, yes. And I said, and you thought that would be funny. And she said, well, I didn't know you. And I said, even if I didn't know you, I wouldn't allow someone to do that to you. McKenzie gave Amy one last chance to tell the full truth. I asked her, I want you to look me in the eye and tell me that Ryan is real. And Amy looked me in the eye and said, yes.

And that day, I basically, walked out of her house and I said to Lee that if she ever admits this one day, she had her chance to tell us. Like, she's in love with you, Lee. And Lee's like, you know, McKenzie, if you told you, that isn't real, it's somebody else. So just get over it. No, Ryan's real.

Lee's response was devastating. I found out months later, six months later, that she was still talking with Ryan after she told me she wasn't. And I just want to pick her up and shake her. I'm like, how can you not see this? McKenzie and her parents went to the police, hoping that they could do something to stop Amy. We saw an officer. And basically it was just, are they using like sin numbers, which is social insurance numbers.

it's like, no, it's like, well, they're not technically stealing an identity. They're just using their photos, so it's not a crime. And my parents were just like, well, she's going to keep doing this. She's obviously going to keep talking to people and hurting people's lives. And, you know, and they're like, all we can say is, like, don't add people you don't know and don't talk to them. Shortly after that, Lee moved to Toronto. Basically, she ran away. To this day, Lee's never admitted that Ryan wasn't real.

In reality, Lee fell in love. You want to choose to believe that the people that you end up loving are good. And choosing to believe it is easier than accepting the fact that you've been talking to somebody who is not real for the past three years, who you've fallen in love with who's actually a woman. who you may or may not have sent pictures and other text messages. What was especially disturbing was that the betrayal wasn't committed at random or by a stranger. The person that did this was McKenzie's best friend. This was somebody who was in my house every single day.

Somebody who I told all my secrets about, you know, like I told her how I felt with men and my insecurities. and I had intimacy issues with men, and I was afraid of whatever. And so she knows all this. McKenzie felt so alone. The only person that could possibly understand what she was going through was refusing to talk about it. Trying to talk with my sister, I wanted to talk about it, and she wanted to put it in a pretty box and put it in the closet.

I'm your little sister. We're supposed to be best friends. You're supposed to help me. You're supposed to help each other. And instead, you ran away and you chose to not talk about it. Amy caused long-lasting damage to Lee and the sister's friendship. You watch the person you idolized so much. And after everything kind of happened, it was she just wasn't Lee anymore.

I was mad at her for a very long time. Now we're better, obviously, but we're just not the same. We're just our friendship. That relationship hasn't been the same since everything happened. McKenzie reached out for support and started going to therapy. I needed that help because I was angry. I was trying to desensitize myself from this story and put together what the hell just happened. Looking back now, McKenzie can see why Amy's catfishing was so cute.

convincing. She had created two characters, Matt and Ryan, who were always confirming each other's stories. If one of them said they were hiking, the girls would get sent photos of Matt and Ryan together on a hike, just like they said. There was no reason to doubt it, because the idea of creating a scheme with multiple fake people seemed so far-fetched. Once Matt was brought into it, it made it seem more real, that's too many people to, you know what I mean? I don't know how to explain that. McKenzie never found out who the guys in the photos were, but she suspects that they were real cousins or even brothers who had public social media profiles.

And Amy must have been stealing their pictures without their knowledge. I still have photos of them. I've reversed image searched all of them. and I can't find anything. Amy introduced these characters at a time when both Lee and McKenzie really needed someone to talk to. Matt and Ryan started talking to both of us

in a very vulnerable time. Lee is very heartbroken from her previous relationship being cheated on. I'm in kind of the same boat, but also I'm going through depression and anxiety, and I obviously don't know how to wrap my head around that. But this story doesn't end here because 10 years later, the sisters both found ways to move forward and heal. Lee eventually built the life she'd always dreamed of. Lee's doing great.

She meets a guy. She has two little kids now, a little boy and a little girl, and they are absolutely adorable, and I love them so very much. She's thriving as a mom, and her husband is one of my favorite people of all time who's hilarious. And McKenzie built a life she genuinely loved too. It started when she realized she liked girls. It was like, yeah, okay, I've never actually

kissed a girl before. Kist her. And then I remember being like, oh, oh, that's what it's supposed to feel like. She finally felt authentically herself. It was the opening

of, okay, I can be mean, now. I had my first girlfriend, fell in love. Then we fast forward to 2023. I'm out living my best life. And my friend from back when everything happened sends me a DM on Instagram. Mackenzie was surprised to hear from her. She opened the message. Just basically saying, hey, you know, I know we don't talk anymore, but I've watched all your pictures and your videos, and I'm just so proud of you. You look so happy. And I just said, oh, that's great. Hope you're doing well. And she goes, I actually message you because I got a message from Amy a couple weeks ago. Amy had reached out to McKenzie's friend with a voice memo confession.

Mackenzie's friend sent her the file. And I play it and I hear Amy's voice. And she says, it was me it was always me I did it I'm sorry and then she says I was struggling with internalized homophobia

and that's why I did the things I did I just was like are you joking internalized homophobia is when society's homophobia causes a queer person to feel shame, guilt, or even self-hatred about their own identity. Amy was essentially saying

that she had created fake, straight relationships with the sisters because she didn't feel like she could come out as gay and be herself at the time. McKenzie knew how harmful internalized homophobia could be because she experienced it herself for years, but it wasn't an excuse to catfish and harm people.

You're giving yourself and out to explain the shitty things you did, I'm not going to my friend's house pretending to be other people. I'm not manipulating other people into, you know, doing X, Y, Z. I'm not gaslighting people into talking to these people that aren't real. I'm not sleeping over at my friend's house, trying to cuddle them in the night while they're talking to this fake person that's actually me. No. I barely have a friendship with my sister, and it's all because of what she decided to do for three years.

Amy's apology didn't feel genuine. She did this because she wanted to. She did this because she likes to manipulate. She did this because she likes the control. She took advantage of young girls that had just broken up. up with their significant others that were vulnerable and preyed upon them, we've all moved on. And that whole apology, you're doing it to see if you can still affect our lives. You want to see if you still have that hold. In the end, Amy has to live with what she did. But she doesn't have

power over McKenzie and Lee anymore. McKenzie has moved on. She processed Amy's betrayal, but she didn't let it paralyze her. She hasn't stopped trusting people. When I love, I love with all of me. I don't hold back. I don't hide the fact that I am an emotional person. I'm a great friend. I think I'm a great sister. I think, you know, I just love people, good people. We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story? I chose to write in because everybody's on social media. Everybody has. Everybody has. has a phone. Betrayal can be on so many different levels. And I want people to know that regardless of the betrayal you go through, I feel like if you're willing to do therapy

and you're willing to look at yourself in a deeper level, it can make you a better person. And funnier because you have more trauma. on the next episode of Betrayal Weekly. There's this feeling that moms are good. No matter what, moms are good. And even if they do the wrong thing, it's because they love you so much. If you need to accept the lie to live,

then you accept the lie, right? If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at BetrayalPod at Gmail. dot com. That's Betrayal P-O-D at Gmail.com. Or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. You can also connect with me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and

review betrayal. Five-star review. views go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with IHeart podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our IHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica crime check. Audio editing on this episode by Dean Welsh. Mixing and mastering by Dave Seyup. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library

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