Betrayal - Not Alone | EP 7 | Saskia's Story

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Four women. Four stories of survival. Saskia finds out she's not the only one.   Content Warning for rape, tech-enabled sexual abuse, nonconsensual intimate image distribution, mental health struggles, and chronic illness.   If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail]. Follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Follow our newsletter and join the Betrayal community at betrayal.substack.com.  For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition, and many counties also have resources available. If you’re looking for help, go onto your county’s website to see what resources are available locally, or search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. You know Roald Dahl. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Dahl, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What?

You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to The Secret World of Roll Dahl, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F1 romance novels, and plenty of mishap scandals and sagas that have made Formula One a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and on my new podcast, Mostly Human, I'll take you to some wild corners of the tech world.

I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here in New York City. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. Mostly Human is your playbook for how tech can work for you. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Listen to mostly human on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics. I scream. Get down. Get down. Those are shots.

A tragedy that's now forgotten. And a mystery. That may or may not have been political. that may have been about sex. Listen to Roershack, murder at City Hall, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If Saskia's story sounds familiar to you,

it might be because of another case that's been in the news. The mass rape trial, which has stunned France, has ended with 51 men all being found guilty for what they did to Giselle Pelico. Our top story today is the mass rape trial that has horrified France. Giselle Pelico's story was shared around the world.

For almost a decade, her husband drugged and raped her and invited dozens of other men to do the same. In those years, Giselle thought she was seriously ill. She thought she was blacking out because of a possible brain tumor, or maybe early onset Alzheimer's. She'd been married to her husband for nearly 50 years. She never suspected he had anything to do with her symptoms. Like Saskia, she only learned the truth when she saw videos of herself being raped. Ms. Palico chose to have the trial held in an open court and hopes the public trial will help change society. When Giselle's story made headlines in December 2024, we were a few months into talking to Saskia.

We forwarded her an article about the case. it was the first time she'd ever heard a story like her own. It was empowering. I didn't know that there were other people out there like me. But Saskia and Giselle aren't a club of two. In the last two years, there have been more and more stories like this, of people raping their partners and publishing images and videos of their crimes. For example, German authorities uncovered a group chat on the app telegram,

where men were sharing intimate images of their partners. Some were even sharing live videos of sexual assaults. This wasn't a group chat of 10 or even 100 men. There were 70,000 members. The same thing happened in Italy. 32,000 men on Facebook were part of a group called Mia Mowgli, my wife, where they shared non-consensual intimate images. It took 3,000 complaints in fact.

six years for the group to get shut down. People are just waking up to this crime, and as awareness grows, other survivors like Saskia are coming out of the shadows. When you go home at the end of the day and you crawl into bed with the man that you love, that should be the safest place you'll ever be in the world. I found out that that was the most dangerous place that I had ever been. And that is a real mind fuck.

I'm Andrea Gunning and this is betrayal season five. Episode seven. Not alone. We're not finished telling Saskia's story, but before we dive deeper into this season, we need to zoom out a bit. Because what happened to Saskia, wasn't a one-off. There are people all over the world committing these kinds of crimes,

and there are more survivors who are just now climbing out of the dark. In the past few years, we've heard from other people like Saskia. They're women of different ages and different backgrounds. Their stories unfolded years or even decades apart, and they each made different choices in the aftermath of what happened to them. But they've all endured something similar, and on thinkable crime at the hands of someone they loved. We want to share the stories of three women who wrote into us. Let's start with Ember. Growing up, Ember never imagined she'd be the victim of a crime like this.

Everyone described me as like just a very strong individual. And I myself thought, if you're strong, you're not going to fall prey, that kind of thing. At 21, Ember was confident, outspoken. She knew who she was. and her faith was a big part of that. She's Christian, and she drew clear boundaries in accordance with her beliefs. I really did not want to engage in intercourse until I was married. And I was honest about that with every guy I dated.

Like, this is what I believe. And if you don't like it, there's the door. With her fiancé, she found a guy who understood, a man who'd respect her values. His name was John. At this point, we had to be. been together for about four years on and off. During those four years, there'd been ups and downs, periods where John's mental health suffered.

But finally, Ember saw him becoming the man she always knew he could be. He was stable and thoughtful. And he was getting more involved in the church. I thought that it was really from a place of him growing and healing and changing. Everyone around them saw the shift in New York. John, their friends and family were so excited about the engagement. Even their pastor gave his approval. It's like all relationships go through really hard times.

You guys seem like you're really good together. And I think this would be completely okay. And we're like, okay. And I'm sitting there going, if there were red flags, this person would point this out. And nobody pulled a red flag out. Their engagement was the start of a new chapter, a beautiful life together. Then a month into their engagement, Ember got sick. It started one night at John's house.

She remembers sitting down to study. But after that... I don't recall anything that happened other than I somehow made it home. It was like her memory just jumped. One second, she was at Johns. The next, she was home. She explained it away. She must have had a long day.

dozed off. But nights like this kept happening. There were so many occasions where I would fall asleep studying and he would wake me up and be like, oh my gosh, you fell asleep again, you need to hurry up and get home. And I would be so out of it, I wouldn't know what was happening and I'd just somehow make my way home. Over time, Ember started experiencing other symptoms, like chronic pain without any clear cause. It was a pain that was indescribable. I couldn't sit. I couldn't stand. I just couldn't find any comfortable position. And I couldn't remember anything that had happened. And that wasn't all. I'm breaking out in hives all over my body, having migraines I've never had before. Through it all, John was there for Ember. I remember him coming over to, like, comfort me. He just sat with me and

like, rubbed my back. I'm so sorry you're not feeling well. He supported her as she searched for a diagnosis and went to doctor after doctor. No one could figure out what was going on. They were just like, oh, you're probably really stressed out. I was in the pros of school and working full-time and getting married and all that stuff. I was still able to function, but internally, I was falling apart. Things went on like this for a year with Ember at a total long. loss. Just like Saskia, she wanted a solution, some answer that would tie all her symptoms together.

And then, one day, an answer began to emerge. During this time, Ember was taking classes to become a massage therapist. On this particular day, her instructor was talking about the SOAS muscle. The SOAS muscle is a highly protective muscle that a lot of people don't even know exists. It attaches on the first front of our spine, and if we are in fight or flight, it is engaged in simultaneously. The instructor asked Ember to come up to the front so she could have someone to demonstrate on. This happened all the time in class, and Ember didn't think anything of it. I'm laying on the massage therapy table. All of the other students are watching, and she goes to address my SOA's muscle, and I immediately dissociated.

I don't remember anything that happened on the table. I don't remember anything that my body did that I said. All I remember is at the end her saying, okay, that was interesting. I get up from the table and she's like, hey, do you have a minute? Can you come outside? And I said, okay, sure. And she's like, do you know what just happened in there? And I was like, no, you were working on my SOAS. She's like, you were somewhere else. You were not present. And I really have a strong sense that I need to tell you that something's probably really wrong if your SOAS is responding in this way and causing you to go somewhere else. Somewhere else. Lying on the massage table, her mind and body split off into separate directions, just like it did on those nights,

studying with John. Things were happening around her, but she couldn't remember them. Looking back, Ember now has an explanation for what was going on. I was dissociating from my trauma. Dissociation occurs when the mind separates from the body as a way of protecting itself from harm. The brain mutes physical sensations, thoughts, and memories, such that many people coming out of dissociative episodes feel like they've just woken up from a dream. But the body stores memories of trauma, even if the brain tries to push them out. That day on the massage table, Ember's body demonstrated that something was wrong. It was kind of the beginning of my body and brain thing.

We need to be in this together instead of separating. In fact, it was shortly thereafter that I actually woke up mid-attack. The night started the way so many others had. She was hanging out at John's house when her mind went dark. But on this night, in the midst of her dissociation, she woke up and her brain and body snapped back together. When she came to, there was someone on top of her. Her eyes focused and suddenly she could see.

It was John. I freaked out and I was like, what is happening? She's like, nothing, nothing, nothing happened. And I'm like, there's evidence that something happened. His pants were pulled down. so were hers. And remember, Ember didn't want to have sex until marriage. Immediately, Ember could tell John had taken that choice away from her.

In the moment, she was still groggy. I'm still not fully there, but I'm conscious enough to know something is really, really wrong. I lost it. In a daze, she threw on her clothes and ran out the door, went home. She called people she could trust, and one of those people notified the church. The next day, a pastor called John and Ember in for a meeting. And we sit down with the pastor, and he's like, what's going on?

All I can do is look down at my shoes. All I remember is the floor. She was quiet, but to her surprise, John spoke up, and he told the pastor everything. John came right out and confessed. He was drugging me and raping me. The pastor goes, how often has this happened? He goes, this has happened probably once a week,

almost the whole time we've been engaged. That is now almost an entire year. It was so much worse than anything I had ever imagined. And I'm just completely just numb, just numb. John and their pastor kept talking, but Ember tuned them out. All of her senses blurred together into one loud hum. Finally, their pastor asked John to leave the room so he could speak to Ember alone. So he leaves the room and pastor looks at me and he's like, you need to get out of this relationship.

This is not safe. This is not good. This is not going to stop. But is shocked his. Ember was, she wasn't ready to hear that yet. After all, she loved John. And leaving him would mean calling off their wedding. We're like three months before our wedding at this point in time. And breaking that off now means I have to tell everyone what has happened. That, to me, was almost as devastating as realizing what it happened. Now everybody's going to know.

this intense desire to hide in that amount of pain was just insurmountable. Ember couldn't allow herself to face the reality of her situation. She was still holding out hope that maybe if John got treatment, it would all be okay. They could forget about this and move ahead with the wedding. So John started going to therapy, and so did she. I was seeing a therapist that specialized in sexual abuse, and he was seeing a therapist. a therapist that specialized in sexual addiction. But therapy gave her different answers than the ones she was seeking.

Ember and John's therapists worked at the same location. One day, while waiting for her session, John's therapist came through the waiting room. He walked past me and then he stopped and came back. You could see his wheels turning. Like, I'm not supposed to say this, but I feel like you need to know. We've run through a series of diagnostic. test on your fiance, he's not a safe person. He's officially diagnosed as a sociopath, and you should get as far away from him as possible. If you're trying to keep up with everything happening

on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast, flagrant and funny. You look at the top four number one seeds. What do you think UCLA is going to do? Break down that for me, my friend. Obviously, Yukon is the overwhelming favorite in this tournament, but I'll be honest, I think people are kind of sleeping on Texas. Experts are suggesting that UCLA is the number one challenger to Yukon and that right after that would be Texas. S&C is so deep and so thick and just about everything, it really is annoying. So it's UCLA, Texas, South Carolina, LSU, only ones that could possibly upset Yukon.

On Flagrin and Funny, we're giving our unfiltered takes on the biggest moments, the conversations everyone's having. So whether your bracket is busted or you just want the latest on the tournament, we got you. Listen to Flakrant and Funny with Carrie Champion and Jamel Hill on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. I'm Lori Siegel, a longtime tech journalist. And consider my new podcast, mostly human, your bridge to the future. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur.

Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future. And we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you. What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating these AI companion, they're actually dating the companies that create this. We're experiencing one of the greatest tech accelerations in human history. And let's be honest, that can be messy.

There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. But it's my belief that we should all benefit from this moment. Mostly human will show you how. My goal is to give you the playbook. so you can benefit. The reason I say agency is because, like, if we can give power back to people, then I think that's probably the best thing we can do for your mental health. Listen to mostly human on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle. to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Marincini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know, Roldahl, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories?

It must have been. Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What?

And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Did you know Doll got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman.

And then he took a talent. to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and offered Hitchcock, before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Ember was waiting for her therapy session when she was approached by John's therapist.

He told her that John was a diagnosed sociopath, and she needed to protect herself. The therapist had to have felt strongly because he was taking a huge professional risk. Telling Amber threatened his license, he violated client confidentiality. But it was a godsend, because honestly, if I hadn't heard those words, I think I probably would have assumed that everything was going to be okay for a lot longer. I really thought that I was doing the good Christian thing by staying with him, that I was sacrificing myself so that he could experience love. And that was the point where I was like, I can't marry this man.

We'll hear more from Ember at the end of the episode. But now, we want to introduce you to another survivor, Natalie. At 23, she started dating a guy we'll call Stephen. when she was with him. I felt like I was a queen. He would make me feel beautiful and smart, and he would type up these really nice poems or just say how he looks forward to spending time together

and getting married and having a family. Their relationship was a long time coming. He was her best friend's older brother. And in every way, their lives just seemed to fit together. They played on the same softball team. They had a lot of the same friends. And when they talked, the conversation flowed. It was very natural and it was just easy.

I felt like we had a really strong foundation. Eventually, they got engaged, then married. But when Natalie got pregnant, that was when Stephen really became her rock. She was nervous about being a mom. In the months leading up to the birth, I would rearrange the nursery. I don't know how many times I'd rearranged it and I'd vacuum it every day.

Stephen grounded and supported her. We had a lot of late nights setting things up and I would feel bad because he would have to work in the morning, but he was all about it, all about helping and getting everything ready and being very hands-on. When their son arrived,

Stephen really stepped up. He made everything feel manageable. He would get up with him. He would feed him in the middle of the night, even when he had to work the next morning. He would be wanting to help with my son and changing his diaper or just being with him to give me an hour of time for myself. Stephen was a dream dad. They were in this together. And for a while, they lived a great life as a family.

Then came one night when their son was five. Natalie was helping him get ready for bed. He had his own tablet where he could play games and watch TV. All the family's devices were linked in a cloud. And I had his tablet because I was going to put it in on the counter to charge it. She was plugging it in when she saw something on the home screen. There was like a little window that had a man and you could see a penis on the screen. I'm like, oh my gosh, like horrified that my son could see that.

And I'm like, I hope he didn't click on this. Like what I didn't notice it before. Her husband was at work. Natalie messaged him right away. Stephen put her at ease. He thought it must be spam. Once her son went to sleep, Natalie went back to the tablet to reset it to factory settings.

I was looking in the cloud where the photos and images are because I didn't want to delete all of that. And then that's when I saw photos and videos. dozens of these clips and images. It was all graphic sexual material. I was like, I got to get this stuff off of here. But then as I'm looking through, I noticed my bedroom. She froze, and she zoomed in on the photo.

You can see his hands, his wedding ring. And then I realized that I am in these images. I'm just like horrified because I'm not awake. Some of them I'm like barely conscious and I'm like, how do I not know what's happening to me? There's no way that he's doing these things to me and I have no idea what's happening. I would have woken up.

She kept clicking through more photos and videos and then the images led her to fetish websites. She could see that one of the videos was posted for anyone to see. The title of the video that he had posted was something like creeping around without her knowing. And I

was nauseous. I was so embarrassed and I was I just like shut down really. The most upsetting part of it all? I was pregnant with my daughter when I found this. One of the things I remember

thinking was, oh my God, was I an active participant? in making my daughter. And just remember thinking like, oh my God, okay, I'm this many weeks along. And counting back, like, oh, my God, okay. And I remember the weekend, and I remember like, oh, thank God. Like, okay, yes.

I remember this was when it happened. When Stephen came home, she confronted him. I remember us sitting in the back room of the house and I just gave him the tablet and I had the images pulled up and I'm like, what is this? And he just kind of looked at it and was like, I have a problem.

He was asking me, like, let's go to counseling, can we do counseling? And I'm thinking, I think you need counseling. From the day that I confronted him, I never slept in the same bed as him. But leaving all together, didn't feel like an option. I remember shutting down and thinking, like, what am I supposed to do?

Like, I work two days a week. He's a hands-on dad. He's supporting us. I need his help. What am I going to do? So, she stayed. She picked up as many shifts at work as she could. And when Stephen would come home at the end of his workday, she'd find an excuse to go out.

I wouldn't want to be home when he was home. As the months passed, Natalie began to uncover the full extent of Stephen's abuse. I found in his bedside table underneath some files, he had a bottle of Tylenol PM, and they were all broken up, and they were in pieces, and then there was some other powder stuff in the bottle, too. And I'm like, that is probably what he was using and putting it in my drinks, because I was not just asleep. I was literally unconscious. It shattered her sense of safety in her own body and in her own home.

I didn't even want to drink anything that was opened in the house because I was afraid that he would put something in it. In the aftermath of her discovery, her friends and family could tell. Something had changed in her, but she kept the truth to herself. People would ask. asked me, are you okay or, you know, you're quiet. Oh, I'm just tired. Oh, I didn't sleep well

last night or, oh, I'm just nervous about the baby coming. It was so embarrassing to me. It was like I was trying to avoid really thinking about that. It was just like this deep secret that I had. When her daughter was born, she continued to stay silent. Her priority was giving her kids a good life. And for a long time, she thought that meant smiling through the pain. But eventually, she realized she couldn't keep living in that house. She had to leave. I remember starting to pay things off that were in my name. And I was starting to try to save a little bit of money, like my own money, because he was in charge of our finances. It took me well over a year. just kind of living in the same house with him and being

paranoid and then being just angry and then being bitter. Three years after her discovery, she finally saved enough money to move out. The new house wasn't much, but it was hers. She was free. My realtor unlocked the door and, you know, we had walked in and she's like, here it is. here's your keys, this is your house?

I was like, oh my gosh, you know, this is great. And then after she left, I sat in there on the floor and I cried and I was excited and scared. I'm just really proud and thinking like, okay, this is going to be really hard. But I told myself that day, I'm going to do it. This is mine. this is something that he's not going to take from me. I'm going to do it by myself, me and my kids, and I'm going to be the best mom that I can be.

This is the first day of the rest of my life. There's one more woman to introduce you to, or maybe reintroduce you to, because we've told her story before on the first two episodes of Betrayal Weekly. She was the woman who got us thinking about this kind of crime two years ago. When she discovered what her husband did to her, I couldn't think I couldn't function.

I mean, the kids had to, like, sit me down at the table and force me to eat. And I just laid in bed and cried. I didn't just lose my husband. I lost my job. I lost my home. I lost my community. I lost trust. I lost safety.

I really had to start over from square one. Stephanie was married for 23 years, but then she discovered something horrifying on her husband's laptop. He had a Flickr account that was filled with nude photos of me. Hundreds of pictures. He explained that he puts the picture up

in a chat room, and 25 people at a time can be in the chat room, but people come and go. And so as they come in and out, these other men are explaining how they would rape me. We asked Stephanie, what is it that only people who've experienced this crime can understand? Every woman has that fear, that awareness, that there could be a stranger, that could jump out and assault me, rape me. But for her and for women who've been through what she's been through, it's this other thing. It's that when you go home at the end of the day

and you crawl into bed with the man that you love, that should be the safest place you'll ever be in the world. I found out that that was the most dangerous place that I had ever been. And that is a real mind fuck. Ember, Natalie, Stephanie, and Saskia. Four women who wrote into our show with strikingly similar stories. All of these women survived drug-facilitated sexual assault. For three of them, non-consensual photos and videos were shared with strangers online.

All of these women spent months, even years in the dark, not knowing what their partners were doing to them. And they all thought they were the only one. Nobody that I knew had been through anything similar, so even though I had all these people around, I still felt so alone and like a freak. The shame was really unbearable. Like, who am I going to tell this to?

It is such an isolating experience. to feel like nobody else can relate to what I've been through. So we decided to bring these four women together. To connect with somebody else who says, I get it, I see you. It's a gift. I'm Lori Siegel, a longtime tech journalist. And consider my new podcast, mostly human, your bridge to the future.

Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Each week, I'll speak to the people building that future, and we're going to break down what all of this innovation actually means for you. What I come to realize is that when people think that they're dating these AI companion, they're actually dating the companies that create this. We're experiencing one of the greatest tech accelerations in human history.

And let's be honest, that can be messy. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. But it's my belief that we should all benefit from this moment. Mostly Human will show you how. My goal is to give you the playbook, so you can benefit. The reason I say agency is because if we can give power back to people, then I think that's probably the best thing we can do for your mental health. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you're trying to keep up with everything happening on and off the court, we've got you covered on the podcast, flagrant, and fun. You look at the top four number one seeds. What do you think UCLA is going to do? Break down that for me, my friend. Obviously, Yukon is the overwhelming favorite in this tournament. But I'll be honest, I think people are kind of sleeping on Texas.

Experts are suggesting that UCLA is the number one challenger to Yukon and that right after that would be Texas. S&C is so deep and so thick and just about everything. It really is annoying. So it's UCLA, Texas, South Carolina. LSU, only ones that could possibly upset Yukon. On Flakron and Funny, we're giving our unfiltered takes on the biggest moments, the conversations everyone's having.

So whether your bracket is busted or you just want the latest on the tournament, we got you. Listen to Flakron and Funny with Carrie Champion and Jamel Hill on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case.

I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Maranini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roaldahl, the writer who thought up Willie Wonka, Matilda, and the BFG. But did you know he was also a spy? Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

Our new podcast series, The Secret World of Roll Doll, is a wild journey through the hidden chapters of his extraordinary, controversial life. His job was literally to seduce the wives of powerful Americans. What? And he was really good at it. You probably won't believe it either. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you.

The guy was a spy. Did you know Dahl got cozy with the Roosevelt's? Played poker with Harry Truman and had a long affair with a congresswoman. And then he took his talents to Hollywood, where he worked alongside Walt Disney and Alfred Hitchcock before writing a hit James Bond film. How did this secret agent wind up as the most successful

children's author ever? And what darkness from his covert past seeped into the stories we read as kids. The true story is stranger than anything he ever wrote. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the iHeart Radio Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. After speaking to these four survivors, we knew we wanted to gather a group together

because we're at an inflection point. Like us, the public is just waking up to this crime, opening their eyes to the fact that intimate partners can do things like this and share them on the internet. To get more victims to come forward and to expose how pervasive this crime is, we need to talk about it. So we set aside a Saturday and we gathered Ember, Natalie, Stephanie, and Saskia on a video call. First off, I just want to say, I am so grateful that you guys made time today. To make sure this was a safe experience for everyone involved, we also invited a facilitator. Hi, everyone. My name is Megan Cutter and I am the Chief of Victim Services at Rain. Rain. Rain.

the Rape Abuse and Incest National Network, which is the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization and we operate the National Sexual Assault Hotline. Rain has been consulting with us throughout this season. And I'm really honored and grateful to facilitate this conversation today. For the rest of this episode,

we'll be playing you excerpts from our group discussion. And as a note, we'll be sharing more excerpts in a bonus episode. I thought we could kick off the conversation talking about this idea of community. What has it been like trying to find community or support groups after what happened to you? Saskia jumped in first.

I hadn't heard about any of this before it happened to me. And when I did try to reach out for help, I felt like because it was such a unique experience, nobody really wanted to touch it with a 10-foot pole. One of my favorite parts of all this is meeting other people who can relate to having these acts done by someone who is dear to you. It's like, wow, you did this to the person you're supposed to love most in the world. That's Stephanie, the woman who told her story on Betrayal Weekly.

I had no bad feelings about my husband. I trusted him 100%. And so what that told me is that my gut for who was good and who was bad was busted. I felt a lot like you did Stephanie of like clearly my ability to judge is broken. That's Ember, the woman you heard at the top whose fiance was assaulting her. And I had always prided myself on being a good judge of character and being able to read people. So that was like a hit to my sense of safety, honestly. It has been a real journey for me to get to the point of realizing that it's not my gut that's broken.

It's him that's broken. Natalie brought up something we hear about in so many of these stories. You know, just talking with my perpetrator. I know that he sort of normally. that, well, I'm not the only one. There's more than just this site or there's a lot of people doing it like it's normal. My husband actually said to me, you know, otherwise just participate in this and like it. Really? Well, not me.

It's almost like because you don't want to participate, this is happening to you. I wouldn't have to do this if you were just a willing participant. And also that idea, like Natalie said, they're trying to normalize their behavior and make us feel like we're the one that's wrong. I completely get why people don't come forward because we've been so traumatized already and it's so re-traumatizing

to have to then put your life on display. going through the criminal proceedings, I had no idea how shamed I would be in the process or how difficult it would be. Saskia, you are so brave. I did look into trying to press charges against my husband, but I didn't have what it takes to sit there and to be shamed and have every decision in my life

look dad 100% I think that's one of the hardest parts that I still carry a lot of shame about is that I didn't have what it took

to batter back against the justice system I was being drugged and raped and at one point I woke up at attack and I remember going to law enforcement

about two days later when I finally had my head about me and I tell them what I knew. And they're like, well, if it's been two days, the drugs are out of your system. And it's really a he said, she said situation. You guys are in a relationship.

Like, we can't prove anything. There's nothing we can do about it. I didn't report either. And I try to remind myself about that being the best decision at the time that I made. And I just was feeling guilty for not even thinking. about being able to file a restraining order because I was financially dependent on him as well. And then that's another part where people like diminish what's happened to you. Because it's like, oh, well, did you press charges?

And if your answer is no, automatically you lose credibility. If you really did that to you, you would have pressed charges. It's essentially what people believe. There's no sure thing. So even if you had filed charges, I mean, I think if you look at the statistics of people who do report how few people that the perpetrator actually is convicted. Our facilitator from Rain, Megan Cutter, jumped in to share a statistic. 98% of perpetrators walk free. And for every 1,000 sexual assaults, 50 reports lead to arrests.

28 cases lead to felony convictions, and only 25 perpetrators are sentenced to some form of incarceration. These numbers shocked us. We knew that few perpetrators ever faced justice. But we had no idea it was this few. On the next episode of betrayal, we dig into one reason why. I said, that is not allowed. That is illegal. It's a crime.

He can't do that. come to find out, they're married, come to find out, here we are in 2019, 2020, 2020, 2021, 2021, 2022, 2023. He probably was allowed to do that. For resources on sexual violence, visit rain.org slash betrayal. That's r-a-in-n.n.org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential 24-7 support through Rain's National Sexual Assault hotline. Just text Hope to 6-4.4. or call 1-800-656-6-5-6-hope.

You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That is Betrayal P-O-D at Gmail.com. Or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. To access additional content and to connect with the betrayal community, join our Substack at Betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support.

One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with IHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fascent. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning.

Written and produced by Caitlin Golden, with additional production by Olivia Hewitt. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Our associate producer is Leah Jablo. Production Management by Kristen Malkyrie. Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our I-Hard team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreinschek.

Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecueck. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends, and family, and special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. The Roundtable discussion was led with the help of rain, the rape abuse and incest national network. Thank you to our facilitator Megan Cutter and to Angelina Marcano for her support. Additional thanks to Jennifer Simmons Kaliba.

The trail's theme is composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Mib Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know Roll Doll. He thought up Willie Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? In the new podcast, The Secret World of Roll Doll, I'll tell you that story, and much, much more. What?

You probably won't believe it either. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been. Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Listen to the secret world of Roll Dahl on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Ready for a different take on Formula One? Look no further than No Grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series. Join me, Lily Herman, as we dive into the under-explored pockets of F1, including the story of the woman who last participated in a Formula One race weekend, the recent uptick in F-1 romance novels, and plenty of mishapsed scandals and sagas that have made Formula One

a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years. Listen to No Grip on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How could this have happened in City Hall building? How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events

that really ever happened in New York City politics. I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten. End a mystery. that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, murder at City Hall on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lori Siegel, and on my new podcast, Mostly Human, I'll take you to some wild corners of the tech world.

I'm about to go on a date with an AI companion at a real world cafe right here in New York City. There's no playbook for what to do when an AI model hallucinates a story about you. Mostly Human is your playbook for how tech can work for you. Anyone can now be an entrepreneur. Anyone can build an app. And it's very empowering. Listen to Mostly Human on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an IHeart podcast.

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