Betrayal - Probable Cause | EP 3 | The Confidante

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Sheriffs take on Carl’s case as the harassment reaches new heights.   If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts.  To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com.     If you are currently in crisis, please reach out to organizations that offer immediate support. We are including a few US-based resources here:    988 Lifeline. If you or someone you know is in crisis or need to talk to someone immediately, please call or text 988 – the National Suicide and Crisis Lifeline available 24/7/365.   National Domestic Violence Hotline. They offer 24/7 phone and chat support to help you create a personalized safety plan and connect you with local support.   For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE.   Every state has a domestic violence coalition. If you’re looking for help in the US, search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. In 1986, a man named Scott Macklam was killed in broad daylight. Police quickly found their suspect. Prosecutors convicted him. But now, almost 40 years later, I'm re-examining this case. I really didn't believe any of it was real. And I was like, well, they're going to figure out this is not me.

They're going to do their police job. Has the wrong man been in prison this whole time? Listen to Examined, the Backfire Effect, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But no one will find it. He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly.

They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff, and I said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is. I saw him violent. Backhanded a pow! Listen to the Devil's Quarry Season 2 in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez, but you can call me Toby.

We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy, and he's going to whisk you away. Oh.

Listen to no safe words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the Iheart radio app. Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Did you think you were the only one? Like no matter what you did, it was never good enough for your mother. I'm Jennifer Arnese and this is the Black Mother Woon podcast where we unpack and heal from the very first relationship that shaped us. We rush to accommodate other people when we have. have been hurt and our hurt has not been healed. Listen to the Black Mother Woon podcast from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the

IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, and wherever you get your podcast. We've gotten a pounding at the door and I answered right away and I saw multiple squad cars with the lights on and the officer that I'd spoken to was like we need to come in. one of the police officers asked me to sit down and they explained that Drew was holed up in the bathroom with a knife and I'm like, what are you talking about? I am freaking out from that because I'm like inches away from the possibility of somebody dying. I'm Andre Gunning and this is Betrayal Season 6. Episode 3. Probable Cause In our last episode, the harassment campaign against Carl, his boyfriend Drew, and their friend Paul reached new heights.

Carl's ex-boyfriend denied he was behind the attacks. Even after being questioned by a mutual friend and by his probation officer, Adam swore he didn't do anything wrong. Carl thought he was lying, but he was probably back to drinking. And that was the perfect setup for the real perpetrator. The real person behind the harassment, he was someone who'd been there all along, serving as a shoulder to cry on and doing everything he could to place the blame on Adam. I knew Adam was getting out of jail, so I wanted to pose as Adam because it was an easy scapegoat. The man you just heard, he've actually met him already. Release your inhibitions feel the rain on your skin.

He was Carl's best friend, Paul Augustine. Now you know the truth, but here's the thing. During the escalating campaign of harassment in 2023, Carl, Drew, and police detectives had no idea whatsoever. Everyone was focused on Carl's ex-boyfriend, Adam, which was Paul's intention all along, and Paul played the part of the concerned friend perfectly. to Carl and Drew, he wasn't a suspect.

He was another victim of Adams. Remember, Paul had also been receiving harassing texts. Just realize that Carl's attempts to lie to you or whatever dude he's involved with at this point in his life is so beyond ridiculous. Paul sent himself that message. It was an effective cover. He couldn't be the perpetrator if he was a victim.

With Paul, the harassment escalated, over time, just as it did with Carl. In November 2023, Paul received this text from an unknown number. Someone's not going to make it out of this alive. And if you're stupid and show him this message, it just might be you. It was a direct threat. And Paul was completely freaked out. He called me up, very shaken, crying on the phone and fearing for his own safety.

And when I heard him upset, it did deeply. affect me. Hearing Paul in distress only reinforced what Carl already believed. They were victims of the same person, and they were in real danger. The day that text came in, Carl told Paul he needed to go to the police. And he did. Paul filed a police report of his own on November 13, 2023. Since Paul lived outside of Kenosha, he needed to contact his local precinct. An officer from Wawatosa PD was sent to Paul's home to interview him. That interaction was recorded on police body camp. Nice to meet you.

Steve, nice to meet you. How's going on? So me and, okay, a couple of my other friends, they lived down in Kenosha. For a while, we've been kind of harassed and we were like 99% sure that we know who the person is. They were, you know, actually in jail for, what, about a year and a year. half or so, and it was the ex-boyfriend of one of my friends. Paul explained that he and his friend Carl and Carl's new boyfriend Drew had all been targets of the same man, and after months of trying to ignore it, the harassment had reached a fever pitch.

So like someone's not going to make it out of this alive. Like, it's not directly saying, oh, I'm going to kill you, but it's the implication. I think I would take that that way. I most people would. It was a random phone number. I can give you the phone number if that helps. Yep. We have stuff that we can punch in phone numbers

and see if they are assigned to somebody. The issue of this is just a random generated number. It's not going to show up as any problem. Paul seemed particularly interested in how the police would be able to track down the caller. I don't know what you guys can do, but you can't read text messages from a random device. No, nothing like that, no.

Oh, okay. That you need a search warrant for. That's a little more intense. That's a little more intending on how bad the threat is. Paul nodded along with Officer Mills, but this was new information for Paul. Officer Mills said it would take a pretty serious threat like a domestic terror threat to issue a search warrant,

and a search warrant would be the only surefire way to unmask the perpetrator. So for the moment, the real identity of the person, behind the chaos remained a secret. Carl was relieved that Paul finally filed a police report. He was looking for any way to get law enforcement to take the harassment seriously. Because now, he was getting spoofed constantly.

There were days where he received dozens of calls. I get spam calls a lot. You probably do too. You see a random number pop up on your phone. You pick up. Sometimes it's a sales call, masked behind a local phone number. Other times, no one's on the other line. You hang up and you go about your day.

The spoof calls Carl received were entirely different. First of all, most of the calls weren't showing up as random numbers. Instead, he'd actually see his friend's name pop up on his phone, or his uncle's name, his sisters. You think it's your uncle, your sister, you pick up, what's on the other line? Nothing. Just 10 seconds of silence. But to Carl, that silence wasn't empty. It felt threatening. So whenever Carl picked up the phone and was met with silence on the other end, his mind went to a dark place. That someone had it out for him and they would stop at nothing.

What's the big fear? What's the worst case scenario in your head? I'm concerned that somebody could be coming for me. that somebody's going to assault me. If not me, then Drew. At this point, I'm especially hyper-vigilant. As soon as I get in my car, I'm checking the back seats to make sure that there's nothing planted there. When I'm laying in bed, I don't sleep

because that's when my sense of hearing, I pick up on everything. And every time Carl felt his phone buzz, that same panic set in. His body tensed, his heart rate skyline, It wasn't just an irritating call. It was a reminder that somewhere out there, his ex-boyfriend Adam was listening, plotting, refusing to let him go.

All this made it harder than ever to show up as a friend, a partner, and a son. Take this one moment in fall 2023 when Carl's mother had a medical emergency. My mom called me and said, I knew you to take me to the hospital because she's feeling all this pain in her back. and in her chest and down her arm. Carl got right in his car, picked up his mom, and rushed her to the ER. The hospital quickly determined

that it was a heart attack. It's one of those moments when time slows down. Carl watched ER doctors and nurses surround his mom. She's like a rock to me in so many ways. I always come to her with an issue,

there would always be some way to figure it out. Even when things were volatile, like it'll be okay. It'll be figured out. This should have been a moment where he could just support his mom. Instead, he was getting call after call, seemingly from his sister. But when he picked up, there was always silence. The calls were all fake.

He believed that somehow Adam found out about the heart attack. Adam was capitalizing on his mom's illness, kicking Carl when he was down. How could you be so sick? as to fuck with my mental state right now just as I'm family members in the hospital. To Carl, it was a clear sign that Adam had changed that he must have lost his mind. He's hacking my fucking phone.

He's hacking my phone. He has to be. Like, he must be spying on me somehow. Nothing here makes sense right now. And that's the only plausible explanation. And if he'd stoop this low, if he'd take advantage of a moment of crisis, what would he do next?

I'm talking to police officers from the hospital, expressing like, hey, what the hell's going on? What are we going to do about this? It was like I was in a glass box that everybody could see me like screaming and screaming and screaming, but did nothing about it. Like, they just passed me by. I could just scream into the wind and nothing would happen. That's what that felt like. After months of feeling dismissed, Carl tried a new tactic. Maybe I'll just lean on one of my political connections and see what I can find out. So he contacted his state representative, and he finally found someone willing to listen.

The representative arranged for Carl to meet with the district attorney's office and an investigator. And the investigator responded with document everything. I'm like a good government bureaucrat. Like, I can make a spreadsheet. So I was like, hell yeah, I could do that. that. So, Carl built a timeline of the harassment. He made a spreadsheet, starting with the first message his friend Paul received on Grindr back in May and detailed every instance of harassment since. Do you ever worry about your reputation? Just know that he's a cheater and not to be

trusted. You broke me. Andrew and Paul better watch out. I would be worried about this weekend if I were your friends. That fucking asshole will pay. The more Carl documented, the guiltier ads. The guiltier Adam looked. And with each row he added, Carl explained why his ex-boyfriend Adam had to be the culprit. I had a comments column explaining why this particular text message was important. This has to be Adam because it's about the dog we adopted together. This has to be Adam because this was about the time we went to White Castle. There was reference to a Valentine's Day card that Adam sent to me from jail. I've seen this spreadsheet, and it is no joke. There are hundreds and hundreds of entries.

With this, he thought, the cops had to see what he was dealing with. It isn't just one spoof call that's being ignored. It's 45 of them. It was a lot to show, like, somebody is out there that's off their rocker. When it was all laid out in Carl's spreadsheet, you could see all of the phone calls and texts for what they were. A pattern of abuse. And it was getting worse.

More unhinged, more violent. On November 21st, 2023, Carl and Drew took the spreadsheet to Kenosha sheriffs. They sat down with Kenosha County deputy Mike Roars. He'd worked his fair share of harassment complaints before. Quite frankly, in my experience, most of them are bullshit. They don't have any substance because if I just call you and talk your ear off, you might not appreciate it, but that doesn't necessarily make it illegal. The thing that really set Carl and Andrew apart was Carl had. an entire spreadsheet that all kind of pieced this altogether.

And that was something that I had never seen because most people don't have that evidence. The more that I kept scrolling through it, the more the realization was that this isn't bullshit, that it wasn't just a civil matter. It wasn't just him blowing something out of proportion from an ex. It was legitimate harassment, if not stalking. But the spreadsheet wasn't the only thing Carl wanted to show the sheriff's that day. We have the body cam footage from this meeting, and in it, Carl explains that his boyfriend Drew recently received a voicemail from Adam. He left a voicemail on phone saying no caller ID, but he explicitly identified himself and I listened to the voicemail.

It's absolutely his voice. This was significant. After months of silence on the other line, they finally had Adam, identifying himself on tape. Hello, this is Adam, I'm giving you a call. I know who this is. You know who this is. In this voicemail, Adam denied that he had anything to do with the harassment. In fact, he made it sound like Carl and Drew were harassing him and his family. I would greatly appreciate if you would just stop trying to reach out to me. It's getting out of hand. I want nothing to do with you. I don't want to speak with you. I have not tried even reaching out to you once since I left and got out at prison. Just leave me the hell alone.

Stop trying to contact my family. I need to move on with my life and so do you. We need to just let it go and move on. Okay? I will speak to you later. This message baffled Carl and Drew. Neither of them had reached out to Adam's family. And suddenly, Adam was playing the victim?

It made no sense. Then, Carl got an idea. He could use this voicemail and compare it side by side with that animal abuse call the police received weeks earlier. Here's that call again. I was just wondering if I could have a police officer out to my address. My boyfriend was caught hitting my dog, and then it kind of just got into like a little argument between us,

and I wanted him to leave, but he wanted. The police listened to both recordings, back to back, and compared the voices. Here's Adam's voicemail one more time. Just leave me the hell alone. Stop trying to contact my family. I need to move on with my life, and so do you. I listened to it.

And you can tell these voices are very similar. Like, it is Adam. I'm like, this is it right here. I got my smoking gun. The cops thought so too. Finally, they started to take Carl more seriously because of the spreadsheet and because of the voice matching. They were convinced that these two calls were from the same person.

But the cops, Carl and Drew, they all got it wrong. That voicemail was legit. It was from the real Adam Mejia, reaching out to Carl and Drew for the first time in all of this, in hopes of finally putting a stop to whatever was going on. I need to move on with my life and so do you. We need to just let it go and move on. Okay, I will speak to you later.

However, the call to the police was from someone else entirely, someone who'd been hired by Carl's best friend, Paul Augustine. And Carl was like, that's Adam's voice. So I was like, oh, this is great. Carl totally buys this. Experience Carly Pierce, live at the Opera House, October 16th. Win your way in to the exclusive IHeart Radio Soundcheck Party, an intimate pre-show performance and Q&A.

And then stay for the full show. I don't leave. I'm going to stay. Pierce, live in Toronto. Enter now for your chance to win at iHeartRadio.ca. Stream Carly's new album, Honest Woman. Available now. I'm Hamza. And I'm Martin.

And we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know there's a lot of them going around. But why should you listen to ours? Well, we're only the best podcast in the entire world. And we talk about pretty much everything under the sun. For example, music we're listening to, underground music, trending music, drama in music worlds.

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And so does yours. And this is a place where all of our minds can come together and connect. So what are you waiting for? Come connect with us. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Melissa Jeltsin, and in my new podcast, what happened to her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck, because by all rights, I should be dead.

Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke. about it and he got a year.

You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to what happened to her on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is there an epidemic against literature? More specifically, black literature. Our books are being banned, scanned by AI, and destroyed. I'm Jack Weiss Peace Thomas and on this season of the Blacklit podcast. We're outside.

asking some of the custodians of our stories, teachers, and our modern-day writers. Why? They don't want a whole bunch of little Ella Baker's, Michael Maxes and Martin Luther King's running around. They want to build children who have no empathy. That's really the ultimate goal. We want books that don't make white kids feel bad. So is the war on literacy and information or our ability to connect? We want people to know how sexy reading is and how fun they could be and not always associated with education.

It could be an escape. It could be entertainment. And that is the beauty of reading. It can be all of those things. And considering this is Black Reading Month, the only real question is, what are you reading next? Listen to Black Lit from the Black Effect Podcast Network

on our iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It was now mid-November, 2023. And finally, law enforcement was serious about investigating Carl's case. But in many ways, this help would be coming too little too late. Carl was already unraveling. I was going backwards.

It was like everything that I had done over the last couple of years towards like really improving myself, whether it was my own health or my body image or my relationships, living on my own in Kenosha. All of those success stories in terms of my own personal growth, It was like I was going backwards on all of it. And the weight was the biggest thing. Carl lost 150 pounds after his gastric bypass.

Dealing with the stress of all this, he gained almost half of it back. And it was so easy for me to get down on myself for that reason. The harassment had been going on for nearly seven months. Starting on the day, his new boyfriend drew, moved to Kenosha. Carl had planned for this to be the start of a beautiful life together. But he wasn't able to be the partner he wanted to be. I mean, like, I was not thinking about how we could progress our relationship further or do cute boyfriend things because, like, we were stuck in this mode of chaos.

Carl felt like a failure. He started drinking more, and his self-esteem was almost non-existent. It's pointless to even try it because I'm just going to be the fat drunk that I was destined to always be. But he did make one last stitch effort to pull himself out of that hole. He thought maybe if he could get back to doing what he loved, he could regain a piece of himself. So amidst all the chaos in his life,

Carl decided to run for school board again. He loved his two previous terms. He thought maybe public service would help ground him. I was seeking out ways that I could come back to myself and who I really am as a person. and, you know, an individual who just genuinely cares about their community, getting involved in the best way that they know how. It truly felt like a means of self-care for me. So in November 2023, Carl began putting together his campaign.

But his stalker wasn't about to let him bounce back so easily. After he announced his campaign for School Board, Carl got this text from a random number. Good luck with School Board. I'd be hell assured of my. myself that nothing will go wrong. Not like anyone has access to all your information. That'd be horrible. Carl had nothing to hide and he said so. But the texter insisted he had receipts. It's called knowing smart people who can find out anything I ask. I could have fucked you over

so much worse, but it's so much fun just watching you stress on the daily. Carl did his best to ignore the messages. Then? Text messages were starting to come in and it was extortion. threats. The culprit promised he had information that Carl would not want out there. He'd keep it to himself if Carl was willing to pay. Carl had no idea what the texter could be referring to, what he was trying to hold over him. Over the coming weeks, Carl Stocker started blowing up his phone, demanding money. Should I show Andrew the proof of the shit I dug up? Or you can send me 200 bucks. Got Venmo? Do you still have my Venmo ready? I can send you to link one more time.

I don't care who pays me, but I'll give it one hour. I got screenshots, babe. $200 bucks? Hello? Carl assumed this was all a bluff, just another scare tactic. Then, on December 9th, Carl and Paul were hanging out in Carl's apartment. They were drinking, trying to have a good time when Paul got a text. In it were nude images of Carl.

So many other messages had been fake, but these photos were real. These were pictures I might have taken when I had broken up with Adam and I was going back on like apps. Somehow, the stalker had gotten access to some of Carl's most private images. How they would have ever gotten them I could never explain, but they got them and now they're being used against me. Along with the nude photos were fake text conversations. texts that made it look like Carl was actively cheating on his boyfriend Drew. Carl's anxiety was off the charts. We're sitting there completely stunned and frozen, and I'm drunk, but the adrenaline hits me,

and it's like I didn't even have a single sip of alcohol. Taking intimate photos as part of dating in the digital era. That in and of itself isn't a scandal anymore. But in this moment, Carl's stalker was threatening to use these photos to cause Carl, Carl harm, both professionally and personally. Carl refused to pay, and that night, to Carl's horror, Drew received a text with the nude images and screenshots. It was very violating. At first, he was definitely questioning stuff, but eventually, like, he just did not take it seriously because in one of these doctored conversations, the other person responded with another

private photo and it was literally a picture of a porn star. I wish I was getting guys like that, but like this wasn't the reality. And Drew and I both had a laugh about that. Like I wish, but no. It was a brief moment of lightness in an otherwise scary situation. Drew said he didn't believe anything the stalker said anyway. But after that, Carl could tell his boyfriend started to put walls up. And now, of course, there was a looming threat. Who else would get these photos? Were you concerned that these photos would be released? To anybody else? Oh, God, yeah, I was very concerned about that. The school board elections were coming up. When Carl was elected the first time, he was the first openly queer person on the Kenosha School Board. He knew that if these images

came out, he'd be judged differently. So with these images circulating, Carl dropped out of the race. The last thing I needed was for this to go to somebody else out in the community. Running for the school board wasn't just another campaign. It was a chance to return to something he'd loved, going back to when he was a teenager. Now, that chance was gone. All because his stalker was blackmailing him. His sister Rebecca watched it all change Carl.

I saw somebody who was generally very happy. kind of devolve into somebody who was very reserved, battered, untrusting. His mom, Sue, noticed physical signs too. When he's stressed, he's got a spot right here in his forehead, and then the dark circles around his eyes that you can tell. He was very short-tempered during that time, just, you know, things that normally is easygoing. It wasn't easygoing anymore. The only thing that I could possibly do was to get a burner phone,

with 1990s text messaging capabilities and phone calling capabilities. And I think that was the first time that the emotions really hit me in that situation. I sat there at the kitchen table and I broke down and cried my eyes out. And I think it was very difficult for Drew and very difficult for my mom as well because this was a thing that nobody had answers about. everybody was there to help and everybody was there to support. But there was nothing that any of us could do. It was like I was continually screaming into the wind.

But no matter what false reality, people were constructing around me and Drew, I had to do these ridiculous things to protect myself. And it sucked. It really sucked. Paul had turned Carl's life upside down. Seeing Carl in such pain, he might think he'd stop, but he wasn't finished. He only took this as a sign to push further. On January 5, 24, Kenosha's non-emergency dispatch received a call.

Hello. My name is Carl Brian. I'm calling in from Kenosha. 16th place. And my boyfriend, Andrew Condon, is a nice. Someone was pretending to be Carl. The caller said that his boyfriend, friend Drew had a knife and had locked himself in the bathroom. As dispatch communicated with

each other about what to do, they acknowledged that something was off about the call. This person had like, it sounded like a real deep voice. It sounded like you was using a like a voice changer. Yet they had to assume this was a real emergency. Deputy Roars explains, We can't just not do anything because if, God forbid, something does happen, then that's obviously going to not only look bad, but also be very bad. So dispatch sent Kenosha sheriffs to the house right away. Deputy Roars heard the call come over the police radio. Multiple officers were sent with weapons at the ready.

Going to those calls, your adrenaline's pumping because you don't know what's going to happen. All the other squads were coming to this house thinking that it was a barricade. subject or somebody was going to get killed. Drew and I had just gotten to bed, and we'd gotten a pounding at the door. And I answered right away, and I saw multiple squad cars with the lights on. And the officer that I had spoken to was like, someone called in a weapons call. And I'm like, what are you talking about? They could clearly see when they went in the bathroom.

There was no knife. There was no blood. There was no Drew. They asked Drew to come out. He was still in his underwear. It was so violating. And the whole situation was incredibly dangerous. False reporting of emergencies is known as swatting.

As in calling a SWAT team. And it's considered a serious crime. People can and have died from calls like these. One miscommunication, one mistake, could have resulted in somebody getting shot and killed. I am freaking out from that because I'm like inches away from the possibility of somebody dying. Deputy Roars knew about Carl and Drew's harassment. And so I knew that most likely it was going to be unfounded.

When he heard the call for service come over the radio, he rushed to alert his team. He managed to slow things down before anyone got hurt. If I wasn't there and didn't have that knowledge, then it would have been those six people. going and having to almost kick down the door. The night ended and everyone was physically okay, but the ordeal shook Carl to his core. To me, it was like, what is even real life at this point? It was just an assault on my grasp on reality. And I'm here trying to manage some semblance of normalcy, but I can barely hold it together myself.

I was not suicidal, but I will say, It literally is going to take for me to die for this to end, it feels like. It was like the only way this is ever going to stop is somebody dead. Experience Carly Pierce, live at the Opera House, October 16th. Win your way in to the exclusive IHeartRadio sound check party, an intimate pre-show performance and Q&A. And then stay for the full show. He Pearce, live in Toronto.

Enter now for your chance to win at iHeartRadio.ca. Stream Carly's new album, Honest Woman. Available now. I'm Hamza. And I'm Martin. And we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know.

There's a lot of them to listen to these days. How are you going to get to us? Well, there's a specific reason why you should listen to us. We are the best podcast in the entire world. I swear. I know, bold. But why don't we list some of the things we might talk about on a regular episode? So sometimes we'll talk about, I don't know,

the Uber driver we just had. And how nice they were, or if we tipped them or not, come and find out. Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week. It's the one you're thinking about. Trust me. Or maybe we'll talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama in music or TV shows or the Met Gala and what the actors wore. What we're saying is we're not afraid to talk about everything under the sun.

And if you want to see what that's like, come join us. It's a place where everyone can hang out, anyone. Wherever you're from, whatever you're like, you're welcome. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Melissa Jeltson, and in my new podcast, what happened to her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. stories of survival

The only difference between me and her frankly was a little bit of luck because by all rights I should be dead cases that everyone else called closed They can't convict her right Like she has so much evidence These stories all start in the same place With a woman failed by a system

That didn't believe her That didn't protect her that didn't see her No child should ever experience that And we were babies She did all of these grave things and came out and spoke about it and he got a year. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.

Listen to what happened to her on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is there an epidemic against literature? More specifically, black literature. Our books are being banned, scanned by AI, and destroyed. I'm Jack Quee's Peace Thomas, and on this season of the Black Lit podcast. We're outside asking some of the custodians of our stories,

teachers, and our modern-day writers. Why? They don't want a whole bunch of little elevators. Michael Maxis and Martin Luther King running around. They want to build children who have no empathy. That's really the ultimate goal. We want books that don't make white kids feel bad. So is the war on literacy and information

or our ability to connect? We want people to know how sexy reading is and how fun they could be and not always associated with education. It could be an escape. It could be entertainment. And that is the beauty of reading. It can be all of those things.

And considering this is Black Reading Month, the only real question is, what are you reading next? Listen to Black Lit from the Black Effect Podcast Network on an iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. After the swatting incident at Carl's home, deputy Roars did some investigating, and he realized something.

The call about Drew having a knife was called in to a non-emergency number. In hindsight, this should have been a significant clue that the call was fake. Here is Deputy Roars again. Most people, when they need police, they call 911. And if you call non-emergency for an emergency, it's most likely made up. That's because 911 screens for spoof calls. And because when they're using spoof numbers, they aren't able to dial 911. It seemed like the harasser knew this, because instead of calling 911 to report these fake emergencies, they called non-emergency dispatch.

Over the next few days, Kenosha County Sheriff's non-emergency dispatch line received over 30 fake calls. All of them appeared to come from Carl and members of his family. This was draining law enforcement resources, and Deputy Roars was fed up. I knew how upsetting and frustrating it was for Carl and Andrew who were having to live with this. I mean, I go home at the end of the night and I can turn off my phone and I don't have to deal with it. This was their lives. The Sheriff's Office put more resources on the case. That's when a detective was brought on to partner with Deputy Roars.

My name is Allison George, and I'm a detective with the Conchurch County Sheriff. Sheriff's office. I first started working on this case on January of 2024. Detective George had special training in internet crimes like spoofing. So she started reading through the case file. Based on the extent of the spoofing and the places that were being spoofed called, such as the dispatch center, it told me that this perpetrator was going to great lengths to conceal their identity and that they were likely on a smart device utilizing all these different applications. Immediately, she knew what law enforcement needed to do to crack this case, subpoena the spoofing

companies. You see, spoofing apps aren't a completely foolproof way to hide a caller's identity. In fact, the software companies that produce these apps cooperate with police investigations all the time. If law enforcement are reaching out, they'll say, yep, send me a subpoena, and we will get to the information of who's using our application to place those calls. So Detective George sent out several subpoenas to the spoofing companies. The only problem was those records could take weeks to come back, or in some cases, even longer.

In the meantime, George returned the case file, and she was stunned to see the spreadsheet Carl made, logging every harassing call and text. As she combed through it, she came to the same conclusion as Carl. His ex-boyfriend Adam Mejia was likely, their guy. All that information that we had constituted probable cause to believe that Adam Ahia was actually the perpetrator of this. Probable cause. Maybe there wasn't enough evidence to arrest Adam just yet, but all signs pointed towards him. And that allowed Detective George to justify other methods of investigation. So in coordination with the district attorney's

office, a search warrant was authored. It was approved by a judge. And we went up to the city that Mr. Mejia lives in and met with Mr. Mejia and executed that search warrant. Kenosha sheriffs decided to divide and conquer. One group of investigators searched Adam's partner's house, where Adam was living. At the same time, Detective George and Deputy Roars tracked down Adam. And he wasn't hard to find. They showed up at his regularly scheduled probation meeting. Remember, Adam was still on probation for his DUI.

detectives took him to a local police station for questioning. All right, make yourself drunk to cool. You've taken some time out of your day to come down here. Oh. Sorry, we could have him and grab me, but I would have came anyway. This is bullshit. This footage is from Adam's interrogation. In the video, Adam takes off his winter jacket and sits down across from the sheriffs.

Before this meeting, authorities thought they understood the kind of person they'd be questioning. judging by the text they'd seen, this perpetrator was a vindictive, manipulative guy, a jealous ex, could stop at nothing to destroy Carl's life. But the man they met that day in January 2024

was none of those things. I'm trying to do good. I'm trying to move away from where I was at. I'm trying to just be clean and sober. I was fucked up for three years of my life on alcohol. And I dated my best friend. It was a horrible situation. I don't want any of that anymore.

I'm trying to move on and it keeps getting thrown in my face. Like, I swear this is not me. But then who? I don't know who. I don't know. Why would somebody be trying to send you to jail? I do not know. Detective George decided to try a little harder to see if Adam would confess to it.

At one point, she lied to Adam. saying they already had proof that the spoof calls came from him. This is a common tactic used in police interrogations to see if the suspect will crack once they think they've been caught. What we're doing through this is basically starting from the beginning, right? Because we have these phone calls that came in from dispatch. We have the numbers that they came from, which we know are fake. And so we track them backwards.

Okay. Which that's what I actually said to begin with, that that's what should be done. Right. The problem is it's pointing in your direction. How? That's what I'd like you to explain to me. I seriously do not know how. Like 100% have no clue how that could happen

because I have not contacted anyone. Adam stuck to his story. He was innocent. But there was still so much evidence that seemed to confirm it was him. Somebody has been calling the dispatch center is essentially swatting. Yeah. And if it comes back to your IP address, I mean, that's not going to, I mean, that's going to be definitive that it was you. It's not going to. So it's not going to come back? No. Did you know that the voice changer didn't work that time that you called their district?

What are you talking about? When we compare that to the phone call to our dispatch center, it's the same voice. It's not the same voice. I did not call them. Detective George played the animal abuse call for Adam. It's a feminine gay guy, but it's not me. I'm telling you I did not call them. Seriously, I have not called. I'm cutting the bullshit here.

No, I am too. I have not called. This was one of the only moments in the interrogation where Adam seemed on edge. Detective George saw the shift in his body. I promise you. Because this is ridiculous. How are you going to accuse me of doing something that I didn't do?

I have not called. I'm not accusing of you anything. I'm confronting you with the facts. And I'm being, I have not called, and this has been going on for too long. Adam was upset, but through it all, he was cooperative. He gave the cops as much information as he knew. He even willingly handed over his phone.

Look through it, all you need, because this is stupid. About a half hour into the interview, Deputy Roars and Detective George took a pause. They stepped outside and looked at each other. They were baffled. As a cop, you generally get very good at reading people and knowing what's bullshit and what's the truth. And Adam's completely blindsided.

He truly didn't seem like he knew anything. And I kind of felt bad for him. Adam was forthcoming. The sheriffs were thrown off. Maybe there was more to this story after all. Meanwhile, there were still other cops at Adams' home, executing the search warrant. Detective Morrow led the investigation. A couple of us went to the house and went and looked at it.

Look like your normal, everyday house, kind of like this, that we're in right now, right? They walked through the home gathering things that might be helpful. A laptop, an SD card, some paper files. And then? Look around the whole thing and finally find the Cubs hat. And right then it's kind of like a light bulb. Like, oh shit, this is our guy. You might remember the Cubs hat from the last episode.

When Adam moved out, he took a Cubs hat Carl cherished. This hat was often made. mentioned in messages to Carl and Paul. How badly does Carl want this hat back? I'll mail the hat if you want, since you probably don't want to see me ever again. I wanted to give him the hat back, but I get blocked every time. It might seem like an insignificant detail, but Carl was sure. Only he and Adam knew about the hat.

So to detectives at the scene, this hat was the missing piece. It was verification of Carl's story. strong circumstantial evidence that Adam Mejia was behind the harassment. Deputy Roars and Detective George were still on their break, standing outside the interview room when they got the news. Detective George had asked Adam about the hat early on in the interview. We are executing a search warrant. Okay.

Are they going to find that stupid hat that everyone keeps talking about here? I don't know what hat you're going to say. Okay. I'm not sure. It's something Chicago calls. And then later on, towards the end, communicating what the officers were executing the search warranties home, well, they found that hat there. So in fact, if I was telling him over at your house. And you found a hat.

Which hat? The Chicago Cubs one. I remember what hat now you're talking about. You said yellow one, and I saw yellow and brown. I have not worn it at all since I've been here. And you have had a hat? No, because it was downstairs in the basement, I think. Adam insisted the hat was buried in storage.

He just forgot he had it. But to Detective George, it felt like she'd caught Adam in a lie. There was mounting evidence, and Detective George had to make a decision. We have body camera footage of what happened next. I am, first of all, incredibly confused about what is all going out. Oh, my. We are going to be taken you in custody. What?

one count of stocking. If you didn't catch that, let me repeat it. Adam was being arrested on one count of felony stalking. He was going to jail. On paper, it all made sense. But detectives had the wrong guy. You will have a court appearance. Probably, maybe tomorrow at one.

I can tell you that I'm going to be digging a lot deeper into this. And if there is someone else who is causing issues, I will find out. As of right now, like we told you, everything is pointing towards you. I understand if it's not you, then you want to see you have nothing to worry about. Nothing to worry about, except that he was being taken to jail for a crime he didn't commit. You have been completely chill and cooperative. We are going to be as chill and cooperative with you as can. We are going to take you to the county jail.

We will be both and be a judge. Yeah. How long am I going to be incarcerated for? That I don't know. So I don't know when I'm getting it. out. And that is not, once again, our, if you want to face over, uh, here just turn this way, there we go.

Deputy Roars searched Adam's pockets to make sure he had nothing on him. The whole time, Adam kept his wits about him. Do I get the phone call? You've been cool with us, so we're going to let you make your phone call using one of our phones before you get done. It's all because of talking. Yeah. Yeah.

We're going to take you the rest of them that we'll have to park. I'll come back to your address. Based on his behavior, the authorities allowed Adam to call his mother from the police car. Right now, I'm okay. I'll call you as soon as I can. Okay. When I find out more information and I just pray that I'm going to be okay. It's just not cool. I love you.

So, that's all right. I didn't do anything. I love you. Yeah, I love you too. Try not to get too worked up about. this. Oh, I'm already worked up. I'm already worked up. I just can't believe it. I just cannot believe it. Just pray. Please, just pray. Before the day could end, there was one last thing Deputy Roars needed to do. Delivered the news to Carl.

Really? No. Take a check on. When he got to Carl's house late that night, he found Carl hanging out with a friend. Paul Augustine just so happened to be there. That gasp, he's actually a really friendly. That gasp came from Paul. That gasp came from Paul. In the moment, his reaction.

Go ahead. So, he'd be in a bedroom. He's just going to be a lot. No, that's okay. So he got arrested today. Oh. That gasp came from Paul, the actual perpetrator. In the moment, his reaction made sense.

After all, he'd been a target, too. He and Carl had been in. in this together from day one. So as of right now, we're still going through his phones and everything. The hard part isn't over. He's basically just been putting, he's been arrested for stalking. You personally weren't, I mean, because you're, it's not like you personally had to drive up there to do it. Oh, you seriously did?

Oh, my God. I've been there all there. So. Oh, my God. I don't know, you probably can't answer, but I'm still going to ask anyways if you can't, it's fine. But how did he even react? He was surprisingly calm. I will give him that.

There was only one person in the room who knew the truth, and he was asking all the questions. Paul could barely contain his glee. Are you excited? Yeah, I can actually stay. You know, I haven't stayed here in two weeks. I might actually stay here tonight. All Carl wanted was a night of peace.

Now, he was getting it, and his best friend Paul was there to enjoy it with him. them. We call his house camp harassment. We do. We do. But now it's camp celebration. On the next episode of betrayal, Carl's ex-boyfriend, the man everyone believed was responsible, the man who went to jail for a crime he didn't commit, Adam tells his side of the story. During the whole case, my voice was never heard. Carl's been through hell and back. Andrew's been through hell and back. But they all told their story. They were all able to report it to police. But with me, how do you report it to police when police are the ones telling you? You're doing this.

If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That is Betrayal P-O-D at gmail.com. Or follow us on Instagram at Betrayalpod or me at it's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the betrayal community, join our substack at Betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review.

Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with IHeart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by Nielder. Nancy Glass, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunnick. Written and produced by Carrie Hartman and Caitlin Golden. Our story editor is Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Fetterman.

Our production manager is Kristen Mulcuri. Our associate producer is Leah Jablo. Additional support by Curry Richmond and Olivia Hewitt. Our I-Hard team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreinschuk. Audio editing and voice acting by Tanner Robbins. Mixing and mastering by Matt Dalvecchio. And special thanks to Carl Bryan, Adam Mejia, Matt Rolesi, and their communities. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Mide Music.

And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If anyone wanted to commit a murder, up here would be the greatest place in the world to hide the body. But no one will find it. He acted friendly. He talked friendly. He sounded friendly. They all knew that I did the scary boogie stuff, and I said, maybe she'll find out where this girl is.

I saw him violent. Backhanded a pow! Listen to the Devil's Quarry Season 2 in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1986, a man named Scott Macklem was killed in broad daylight. Police quickly found their suspect. prosecutors convicted him. But now, almost 40 years later, I'm re-examining this case.

I really didn't believe any of it was real. And I was like, well, they're going to figure out this is not me. They're going to do their police job. Has the wrong man been in prison this whole time? Listen to examined the backfire effect on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's up? I'm Tony Gonzalez. And I'm October Gonzalez. But you can call me Toby.

We want you to join us on our new podcast, No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez. We get real about marriage, parenthood, sex, divorce, and all the nitty-gritty stuff we all think about, but just don't say out loud. You're probably just going to be some rich guy and he's going to whisk you away. Listen to No Safe Words with October and Tony Gonzalez on the Iheart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Did you think you were the only one? Like no matter what you did, it was never good enough. for your mother. I'm Jennifer Arniece, and this is the Black Mother Woon podcast, where we unpack and heal from the very first relationship that shaped us. We rush to accommodate other people when we have been hurt, and our hurt has not been healed. Listen to the Black Mother Woon podcast from the Black

Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, and wherever you get your podcast. Thank you.