Betrayal - S2: E4 - Avaya

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

Jason learns his sentence.  Avaya reveals the struggles she faced at home after Jason was arrested. Ashley, at her most vulnerable, faces Avaya to express her regrets. Then, experts explain how child sexual abuse material has become ubiquitous.   If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team email us at [e-mail].   To report a case of child sexual exploitation, call The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's CyberTipline at 1-800-THE-LOST  If you or someone you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards children reach out to stopitnow.org  In the UK reach out to stopitnow.org.uk See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Please take care while listening. It treated me so poorly. Me and my mother, it was unfair and it's rude if I don't want any other channel that ever went through that. Ever. I'm asking for you to send him to Pissing. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, Episode 4. Aveya. On our last episode, you heard the sentencing hearing for Jason Linton. He pled guilty to one count of sexual exploitation of a minor and two counts of wearism. His stepdaughter Aveia made a plea to the judge to send him to prison. Would Jason go to jail or be set free?

That decision was in the hands of Judge Metler. Okay, thank you everyone for your input. The thing about this for a while, this is the jump one. And that court makes decisions concerning sensing. The court really is balancing ways in which the victim can be made whole, which frankly, it's pretty unusual when the victim can truly be made whole. Rehabilitating the defendant is an important factor, and then of course passion. Child pornography is a horrible thing, and it's been a victim of so many young girls and boys, and it's been a big to my there's so many young girls and boys and it's terrible.

But the voyeurism charges here are really serious. The position of trust that you help with respect to your stepdaughter, violating that and the way that you did, I agree with Mr. Senn. They really take this case to a different level and want some please. to a different level and wants to put a significant impression. Okay, so for the crown of sexual exploitation of minor, a secondary felony, of course, what impose a term when we toss a prison, not less than one, or more than 15 years, and for each count of warriors in both class

and misnames, courts, but impose a term in jail, not to the C-300 since equal days. Courts don't want to add the two warriors in counts, one concurrent, one another, and consecutive to the prison defense imposed on the sexual exploitation of my account. And on the second to be felony, Quartz is going to suspend that sentence and place Mr. Lim on probation for 48 months to be supervised by APNP. To put it simply, Jason got less than a year of jail time for both voyeurism charges and when need to register as a sex offender. Less than one year.

How is that even possible? I really thought this type of crime carried a hefty prison sentence, but that's not the case. We'll get into that later on in the episode. Not to mention, the one to fifteen-year sentence for sexual exploitation of a minor, it was suspended, meaning he wouldn't need to serve it if he doesn't violate probation. After Judge Metler rendered her sentence, an officer came and handcuffed Jason.

He was going immediately to Salt Lake County jail. Now, Avaea, the victim of his voyeurism, could start to catch her breath and not fear seeing him out and about. And Ashley could really start to rebuild. But nothing would be the same as before Jason was arrested. We wanted to see how Aveda was doing after Jason was sentenced. So about a month after the hearing, I met Ashley and Aveda at home in River 10. I'm so nice to meet you guys. I'm so nervous. Yeah, I'm worried. Do you guys mind just talking into the microphones

just so we can do some level checks? Buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh, bu It was really nice to meet Avaia face to face. She is Ashley's many me, though she is taller than her mom, but everyone is taller than Ashley. What struck me about Avaia was her confidence and her maturity. She seemed wise beyond her years. And I just wanted to remind you that her court sponsored therapists supported her participation in the podcast. And she was open with her feelings, starting with Jason's sentencing hearing. So, Avaea, when I talked to your mom a few months before the sentencing hearing, she didn't

think you would go to court, but it looks like you changed your mind. Why? I had really thought about it and so when I went in there, I had a whole bunch of things that I wanted to say to the judge and to Jason and I wanted to at least try and make an impact on it. I didn't want to be just like a by-starter that want to just do nothing. Before he got locked up, I'd be laying in bed tonight and I'd just sit there thinking like, I hope no one's out there, you know, if someone's looking, someone's creeping. Like, you get that feeling, you know? But ever since he's got knocked up, I, you get that feeling, you know? But ever since, you stopped knocked up by it and that feeling.

I'm really happy you haven't had that feeling because that must have been really scary. It's hard to imagine not feeling safe in your own home and I really don't know how you processed and navigated that as a teenager. None of us knew how to express our emotions because we were all so sad, but we were all so upset about what had happened. And we still loved him. Yeah, we still loved him. Like we felt like it was wrong too,

because we were like, we were like, oh, what? He was our dad. Like, he was my dad. Like, I loved him. Like, I loved the guy that he was, but I don't know who this is. I'd put in so much trust into him, because my dad wasn't there.

And so he had taken on that role being my dad so I trusted him so much and I had really let him into my life. And I was just more like a mother though that he had torn up our family. He had hurt my mom and my brother and my sister and what he did to me I was definitely I was pretty hurtful. A lot of your family members mentioned to me that you were a serious soccer player, but this whole experience just made

competing impossible. What happened there? At our cell, you have to have good grades to be on the team no matter what. And you can't miss more than two days of school. Like there's some new rules and things like that. And if you're going to an athletics school, you're going to be around some concai as people all day. But there was some cool people. Yeah, I mean, yeah, there was, there

are some pretty awesome people there, but time to get dressed up every day. You know, that was really hard for me. And so I was so overwhelmed with everything that I just just, I don't wanna be around people. Yeah, it sounds to me like you just needed a breather. So you switched to an alternative school and just to be clear for people listening and just to make sure I'm understanding it right. All that means is it's a school that educates kids differently than a typical public school.

Ashley, I know you had a lot of dreams pinned on Avaia Saka. Were you on board with her leaving? Was that hard for you? I mean, we definitely struggled. Your whole life, we've had like this one plan. Saka. Scholarships, California. California. But I guess that I'm hearing and I didn't realize, I mean,

you don't want to be around all those people and then they knew this awful secret, you know. It wasn't just like one thing, it was kind of all of it was so piled up on you that... Yeah, yeah, definitely. The reason why I wanted to go to Valley was it was way better alternative for me. I was succeeding a lot more. I was on a roll. When you go to an alternative school

to people are there to get their shit down like there's people that are there that have kids and they're sitting in the day. Like they're like if we have a day care at our school to like we'll have people that have kids they're going to do homework and stuff. You could show up and with messy butter in your hair and no makeup, no one would care. That's another reason I really like ballet too, is because it's like a really not-enjudgmental area. I kinda felt like I just had a trust,

like you were doing. Even if I didn't think it was like, best choice, you know? Like I wanted you to play soccer, and you were beast. Yeah. You're amazing on the field. Yeah. You know, on the field. Yeah. You know, and I get that like your passion for it's not there anymore. I get it.

And you also have a job, right? I work at a daycare. I'm an opener, so I get there at 6 o'clock in the morning, and I basically watch kids from the age five months all the way up to like ten years old. And yeah, I love it. I love my job. Why did you want to participate in this project?

So when my mother had first told me about this project, I kind of was like, she's crazy. Like she has lost her mind. Like something is wrong with her. Like she is her, she batshit crazy. She thinks that she's getting on the damn podcast. And so when she finally started getting into death with everything, I actually thought that it was really cool.

I want to be able to impact other people. I want to be able to talk to other people, what other people know, they're not alone in these kinds of situations. I know exactly how they feel. It's OK to not be OK for a minute. And that eventually you're going to get back up on your feet. There may be road bumps, but definitely get back up on your feet, you know?

Ashley, I know you wrote into us on a very bad day. But Ivea, I think there are two reasons your mom wanted to do this. Put her life out in public. Share her story. One is to look for a community because we know this is happening in a lot of other homes, but also because she wants to let you know some things. Right after it happened in Jason went to jail. That whole first month was kind of a blur.

I feel like for all of us. Yeah, it definitely was. But after he got out of jail, do you remember me going over to his grandpa's house to see him? What did you think about that? Just kind of frustrating me. How does it understand?

Yeah, I think looking back on that time, there's a couple of things that I wish I would have done differently, but I didn't. And one of those things is, you know, when he got out, I kind of switched back into wifey mode. And just for clarity, actually, you're talking about after Jason was arrested and then released before he pled guilty. So before the sentencing hearing. Yeah, I was trying to manage our family, you know, you and your brother and sister, plus still be his wife.

And even like with everything that happened, there wasn't a lot of people in like your corner when we should have been. When we found out that this happened, we should have cocooned around you. It wasn't your job to step up and be many mom while I was having a meltdown. That wasn't your job.

And I think us not doing that pushed you away. And I am so sorry. That wasn't fair to you. That was why I didn't say that with my dad. He was the only one that was really in my corner. He was the only one that really stood up and I said, are you okay? No, that's why I stayed there.

And at the beginning of all this, too, it was also such a big shock to all of us. It's not a good excuse though, but no, like, thing is, too. I really don't remember, like, everything, you know? I'm telling you right now, mom, like, we were all in shock. Like, everyone had to write to be in shock and that situation and you were

definitely in shock and I was too. I'm not mad at you. I'm really I'm really not mad at you. Maybe you're not right now. Well, maybe someday you might be though. Maybe someday I might, we'll be, but also maybe a point where I'm not ever gonna be mad at you. Like, this is not your fault. I'm telling you, like, from this point right now, like, in my life, like, I am not mad at my mother whatsoever. Like, I'm beyond proud of my mother, beyond anything. I love you.

I love you. BFF. Forever. Hi, my name is Cooper, and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And one bit, the cover. Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly.

But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or by your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders and can be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, Jess asked Bentley. He's British so he knows what he's talking about. Cooper is quite right. Are we coming all different breeds in sizes? In first We have a three-year health guarantee. So check us out at Crocododles.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now.

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That's nevershaveagain.com. Hey guys. It's Daniel Fischel. Writer Strong and Wilford L from Pod Meets World. We had an unbelievable night of laughs and raw emotion hosting a live podcast episode and 30 year reunion with our friends at Hyundai back in April. We talked about our journey together on Boy Meets World. We were joined by some awesome special guests. And most importantly Lisa Lowe. Yes, Lisa Lowe performed and she dedicated the song to me.

I wouldn't believe it if we didn't tape it. And speaking of that, the full episode is out now. Oh, God. If you guys could have a time machine and not only go back, but actually go back and magically change a storyline or change something about our show, I got one. It's Panga, what are you going to yell? Oh! Do you have one? Yeah, mine is super safe, I guess, compared to that.

I would have had Turner stick around last. Do you have one? Yeah, sure I have one. I'd be in every freaking episode. Yeah. I go back and talk to my agent like, oh, what are we doing there? This episode is brought to you by the 2023 Hyundai Tucson. When it comes to your journey. Hyundai is thinking of every mile.

At the beginning of this series, I told you that we had received several letters about families being destroyed because the husband was looking at a legal images of children online like Jason. And I will freely admit, before we really investigated, I assumed these offenders are put away for a long time. I really thought the law through the book at them. They were off the street. But when I met Ashley and other women who reached out,

I learned that isn't necessarily the case. Even as I recorded this episode, Jason is halfway through his sentence and will be out in the community in the not too distant future. And you might be asking yourself, why should I care? Jason Litten isn't my husband, or my son, or my brother.

Here's why you should care. There aren't enough prisons in the world to hold all the people who are looking at this material. It's insane. These offenders are in your neighborhood and mine. They are blue collar, white collar, doctors, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, clergy, police officers. They encompass every walk of life.

I didn't realize how uninformed I was on this topic. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children received over 29 million tips just last year alone, from online companies like Facebook, Google, and others that detect these images. And here's something else I learned. Even the words child pornography are a problem. As I reached out to law enforcement and talked with people who work with victims I discovered that they use the term child sexual abuse material.

So why haven't I heard this term before? Probably because it's not in the media. It's not good clickbait. A headline that says, local code arrested for child porn is going to get a lot more traction than local code arrested for child sexual abuse material. Just the way it is. But here's why it matters to victims. Online pornography usually refers to adults who have consented to be filmed, but that's

never the case when the image is to pick children. It is abuse. These are pictures of crimes that have already been committed. Children can't legally consent to sex. They can't consent to having images of their abuse recorded and distributed. So child sexual abuse material is a more accurate description, but it's also a mouthful. So often the term CSAM is used for short. Look, no one ever imagines that someone they love would do this.

I feel for victims like Avea. I feel for mothers and wives just like Ashley. I feel for anyone whose life is upended by discovering a family member is involved. So I really wanted to know, why is C-SAM so prevalent and lurking under the radar? And what is law enforcement and the justice system up against to keep families like Ashley's safe? In the 90s, child sexual abuse reports were predominantly handled by the U.S. Postal Service, who was responsible for intercepting things like magazines and that type of contraband

that would be sent around. That's Gabriel Danz, his reporter for the New York Times. And in 2019, he and his colleague Michael Keller published a groundbreaking investigative series called Exploited, which documented how CSAM has exploded, along with the growth of the internet and social media. What we know is that with the advent of cell phones and the internet, there was both the opportunity to produce material much more easily, and also the opportunity to distribute that material much more widely. The internet also provided the opportunity for people with similar interests to get together,

learn from each other and create online clubs. Which is fine when you're talking about baking or car repair, but this is an underground that shares information on CSAM. How to acquire it, produce it, and hide it. Average citizens are downloading and viewing this material. Some states get 3,000 cyber tips a day. Some states get 3,000 cyber tips a day. New York Times reporter Michael Keller. You know, one question that we heard a lot was, well, what's the big deal they're just sharing images? Why is that so bad? Why should someone be punished for that?

And in speaking with survivors of the abuse, we really understood that it is the ongoing trade in imagery that makes this that much more serious and harmful to the people involved. We spoke with two sisters, and honestly, who were abused by their father, who couldn't show their faces because there are people online trying to find them and track them down. And it prevents them from living a normal life. And that is due to the ongoing trade in the images, well past the actual abuse. These are people who have had some of the worst crimes you could possibly imagine documented and shared for the pleasure of other people.

Former Utah United States Attorney, John Hubert. This goes on constantly. Dozens upon hundreds of cases where you have these images and collections and trading images and bartering them like their baseball cards and it's those run-of-the-mill offenders that I am so concerned about because they're not getting the attention in court or according to state law that I believe they should. During my tenure as United States Attorney, we were getting some pushback from federal judges of why are you bringing these cases?

People looking at pictures. You know, what's the big deal? This is in federal court. And so we thought that was a misunderstanding and that we need to communicate better to the judges what we're talking about. You can probably imagine Ashley's surprise when she first learned what kind of justice Jason would be facing. The prosecutor made it sound like he's not going to go to prison

and the most time that he's going to do is probably six months in jail. That was pretty normal for this type of offense and I'm like, are you kidding me? The punishment just didn't seem to fit the crime. This doesn't just upset victims, it also demoralizes law enforcement. Riverton Detective Jason Rue was one of the first who looked at the hidden file and had to view the evidence.

It frustrates me, especially with these kind of crimes. It's lifelong sentence for these victims. And not just the victim, but the victim's mom or the victim's dad or whoever else might know of this and the family. And you're letting them out in six months to a year with probation for four. That means basically someone's coming to check up on them every now and then asking if they're doing okay. And if you're waiting for the federal government to jump on the problem, don't hold your breath.

We found systemic failures in responding to this rising problem. And one of the big things was the failures of the federal government to live up to its own promises that it made around 2008 to develop a strong national response. That involved creating a high-level position at the Department of Justice. It required analyzing the issue every few years and creating national strategy reports, and it required creating a funding mechanism for state and local investigators dedicated to doing these investigations, who called Internet Crimes Against Children Task Forces. There is at least one in every state. And what we found was that the government had not really followed through on its grand plans. You know, these reports have risen, arrests have gone up slightly over

the years, but federal funding to these special task forces has largely remained flat. has largely remained flat. The high-well position at DOJ was never fully created. The strategy reports that were supposed to come out on a regular basis, there's only been two of them over the last decade. So we found failures not just with the tech companies, but also with the government to solve a problem that it's known about for over 10 years. And as a response to our reporting, Senator Ron Wyden introduced a bill that was supposed to create nearly 200 positions at federal law enforcement, allotting a total of $5 billion over 10 years to address exactly this problem. And as far as I know, that bill's gone nowhere.

So our elected officials in Washington aren't living up to their promises. And people like Ashley and the rest of us are here scratching our heads at offenders like Jason thinking, you'll be out in months. Is that really okay? Hi, my name is Cooper and I'm a mini golden doodle from Crocodoodles. And one bit late, the cover.

Now I know what you're thinking, talking dogs? Well, hold on to your tails because it gets better than that. I mean, not better, like, more impressive than a talking dog, exactly. But if you apply now at Crocodoodles.com, you could adopt me or any other breed we offer with just a few easy steps. Whether you find a match immediately or buy your time looking for just the right family member, we're worth the wait. We're all raised by reputable, responsible breeders

and could be delivered anywhere in the United States. We're even certified by the Better Business Bureau and have over 500 positive reviews. But if you don't believe me, just ask Bentley. He's British, so he knows what he's talking about. Cooperie's quite right. Are we coming all different breeds and sizes in personalities? Plus, we have a three-year health guarantee. So, check us out at Crocododols.com and apply for the perfect addition to your family now. I shouldn't lie around while you're there, with terribly popular.

Crocododols is making families whole. One pup at a time. Say goodbye to summer shaving and hello to hair-free skin all year long. Give laser hair removal a try this month with one free treatment at any of Milan Lasers 5 Raleigh Durham locations. Milan Lasers delivers smooth hair-free skin with permanent results for all skin tones, so you can finally end that never-ending cycle of shaving and waxing. Laser hair removal is all they do, and you'll save time and money by never shaving again.

They're overseen by medical professionals and use the latest technology to safely, comfortably, and effectively give you the best results. And because their exclusive unlimited package is included with every purchase, you'll never pay touch-up fees or run out of sessions before you're officially hair-free. Don't spend another season shaving and waxing. Give Milan Laser Recall at 833-No-Raser to speak to a laser hair removal expert or check out NeverShaveAgain.com today to schedule your free treatment and consultation. That's NeverShaveAgain. Hey guys. It's Daniel official writer strong and Wilford L from Pod Meets World. We had an unbelievable night of laughs and raw emotion hosting a live podcast

episode and 30 year reunion with our friends at Hyundai back in April. We talked about our journey together on Boy Meets World. We were joined by some awesome special guests. And most importantly Lisa Lisa Lobe. Yes, Lisa Lobe performed, and she dedicated the song to me. I wouldn't believe it if we didn't tape it. And speaking of that, the full episode is out now. Oh, God. If you guys could have a time machine and not only go back,

but actually go back and magically change a storyline or change something about our show. I got one. Tepanga would have gone to Yale. Oh! Oh! Do you have one?

Yeah, mine is super safe, I guess, compared to that. I would have had Turner stick around last. Yeah. Do you have one? Yeah, sure I have one. I'd be in every freaking episode. I go back and talk to my agent like, oh, what are we doing there? This episode is brought to you by the 2023 Hyundai Tucson.

When it comes to your journey, Hyundai is thinking of every mile. So Mr. Litton's case, on paper, his crime of conviction carries a penalty of 1 to 15 years in Utah State Prison. Did he get that? No, and in lieu of that, he was given days in jail in a term of probation. You probably remember that Jason's plea agreement tied the judge's hands pretty much. And while John Hubert thinks the sentence falls short, he supports plea bargains, especially in cases like these. I think there's a public view that plea bargain is a bad word.

That's a sham and a shame. It's just a reality. But it is also true that in cases of child sexual abuse, that there is a reluctance to press every case to trial. Because what is the impact of calling a child witness to the stand to be asked questions in an open courtroom about such intimate victimization and what does that cost for a victim and her family. And at the time of sentencing, Sam argued vigorously for the most jail time possible considering the existing plea deal. In my opinion, that was one step beyond just the child pornography possession and just

one step below an actual hands-on sexual offense with a child. And so it's obviously very concerning. It's extremely troubling behavior and somebody in this defendant's position also occupies what Utah law calls a position of special trust. And that's an aggravator under Utah law calls a position of special trust, and that's an aggravator under Utah law. And so I felt that this was a case where the judge should consider imposing a very significant amount of jail time. They also emphasize the overarching goal

of the DA's office isn't just throwing offenders in jail. The system's interested not just in imprisoning offenders or putting people in custody and locking them away. Sometimes punishment for punishment's sake is appropriate, but the system generally tries to avoid that in favor of rehabilitating people. We don't want this to happen again, so what does it take to do that? The end of the day, we're dealing with people's freedom, and we're dealing with the trauma that's been inflicted on victims. And the system can't go back and fix something that happened,

but the system is often limited in what it can do. The system is designed very much to be limited because we don't want innocent people being convicted, so the system balances that and it's a group of people balancing imperfect questions and imperfect solutions and terrible situations. But not everyone agrees. That is this hope and a prayer philosophy that he will change his ways in the days of probation and some days in jail that he will not reoffend when he is released back into the community.

That hope and a prayer is exactly what it ends up being. What about the community? What about his victims, the child victims who were violated by his conduct? How much does that cost to put that risk back on a family, that risk back on the community at large? What is the amount of money that it's worth if he does re-offend? That in that one to fifteen years he could have or should have been in the Utah State Prison

according to the laws of the state of Utah. He's not. He's out. Since Sam Sutton mentioned rehabilitation, I was curious about what kind of court mandated treatment was required of Jason or someone in Jason's position. This is important to me because I want to know what information Ashley will have and a value will have. For example, how does one measure rehabilitation? How can one know if rehabilitation is successful?

I think this is important to know when you need to make decisions to keep your kids and family safe. His court appointed attorney refused to speak with us. In fact, no one in the public defender's office would speak to our production, so we tried another avenue. So my name is Joel Kittroll, and I'm a criminal defense lawyer

based in Salt Lake City, Utah. Joel spent five years in the public defender's office before going into a private criminal defense practice. He explains what steps and programs returning citizens have to go through in order to enter back into society. Their therapy would include both individual psychotherapy, group therapy, focusing on victim empathy, and then something that's interesting that a lot of people may not know is, generally, you've got to be able to pass polygraphs. While polygraphs aren't admissible in court, as we all know, you can't pass a polygraph that you haven't viewed child images, or haven't acted on these impulses, then you may not finish the therapy classes that are required if you were the treatment that's required of you.

You know, they'll be some type of overview of the Dalpervation and Pearl and his Pearl Officer that will be making sure that he completes that. If he, say, just quits going or says, this is not for me, then a warrant would likely issue, and you'd probably be sent to prison. And unfortunately, you would have lots of company. There will never be a shortage of people looking at child sexual abuse material. Because in the past 20 years, the problem has evolved to a place that is beyond epidemic. It's a public health crisis. We spoke with people who said that as early as 2000, tech companies knew this was a very serious problem. And we're doing nothing to solve it.

2009, when they introduced scanning technology, we knew that it could be effective in helping stem the problem. Still tech companies were not using it. I would say if you talk with most technology policy people, their answer would be technology companies don't have that much pressure to get rid of harmful content on their platform. You can't sue them for what someone posts or sends through their platform. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act shields technology companies from any liability for content that users post. So for now, law enforcement has to rely on tips those companies give to the National Center

for missing and exploited children. The tips from known social media sites are only part of the story. There are plenty of hidden places on the dark web to find CSAM as well. Teams, objectives, and child advocates are dedicated to finding these offenders. Amazing, wonderful people are cracking the codes of hidden websites on the darknet and shutting them down. And one of the biggest and most dangerous of those came crashing down in 2019. On the next episode of The Trial, we'll meet Utah wife and mother, who found out her husband, was one of its subscribers. I just started screaming.

I remember just dropped to my knees and started screaming. And later on season 2 of Betrayal, another mom makes a daring escape. I packed that bag and I just got in the car and I went straight to the airport. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team, email us at patrialpod.com. That's patrialpod.com. To report a case of child sexual exploitation, call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children's Cyber Tip Line at 1-800-THE LOST. If you or someone you know is worried about their sexual thoughts and feelings towards

children, reach out to stopitnow.org. The United Kingdom, go to stopitnow.org.uk. These organizations can help. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners.

A trail is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with I Heart Podcasts. The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, Written and Produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Fetterman, Associate Producer, Kristen Melcuri, our I Heart team's Allie Perry and Jessica Crinecheck, Special thanks to our talent, Ashutton Linton, audio editing and mixing by Matt

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