Betrayal - S3: BONUS EP 1 — An Update from Stacey and Tyler

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Justin Rutherford is appealing his case. Stacey and Tyler discuss how they're processing the news and what the last year has brought them.   If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's April, 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has COVID and won't be seeking medical attention. I didn't want to be talked out of this plan. Then she disappears. Uh, anyone else think this is strange? I just had to know. How did this happen?

Listen to What Happened to Talina Czar on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Connie Britton is here. I think you should encourage your friend to go ahead and not be holding out for any man to have her babies. She could be waiting another 10 years before she finds the right guy. Connie didn't meet her right guy until you were what, 50, Connie? 52. 52. 52.

I kept thinking, oh, I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I finally was like, what am I waiting for? And I did it. And I'm just so glad that I did. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Soledad O'Brien, and on my new true crime podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to 1964 to the cold case of artist Mary Pinchot Meyer. She had been shot twice in the head and in the back. It turns out Mary was connected to a very powerful man. I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor provoke aggression. John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Toe Path with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. He'd always say to me, I wouldn't do what your first husband did to you and just walk out on you and basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating to be told you'll never have to worry about that again, Stacey.

It's just that like, how dare you? How dare you promise so many things that you had to know deep down you were never gonna be able to follow through. ["Dreams of a New World"] Hi guys, it's Andrea. In just two weeks, we'll be back with a brand new season of Betrayal. We'll be telling one story over several episodes. I'll take you to Colorado, where we'll do a deep dive into a betrayal of family and

community. But before that, we wanted to give you an update on our family from last season. In season 3, we told you the story of Stacey Rutherford and her son Tyler. Stacey was a single mom when she met Justin. She knew on their first date, she would marry him, and she did. He was funny, adored her children, and had a bright future as a family physician. Together, they had two more kids. Stacey loved Justin and the family they created. After years of uncertainty, she finally felt

grounded in stability. But Justin was hiding a dark secret. For years, he was sexually abusing Tyler, Stacey's eldest son. Once he was caught, he tried to organize a murder-for-hire plot to kill Tyler and prevent him from testifying in court. For these crimes, Justin was ordered to spend decades in prison. We'll hear from Tyler later in the episode, but first, I wanted to share a conversation I had with Stacy. Over the winter holidays she called to let me know that there was an update in

Justin's case. Their family's legal battle wasn't over yet. The last time you walked out of the courtroom was for the the murder for hire that happened last year. And that was like, okay, this is finally like we can close the book and move on with our lives. Did you think that you were done with this? Oh, I absolutely knew he was going to appeal. There's no way he wasn't going to find some kind of loophole. I mean, my sister and I have had tons of conversations where she said to me, the law library is going to know him.

He's going to be there. He's going to try to find a loophole. You just need to prepare for this to be a regular thing for him to try to find ways out of this. Stacey eventually spotted a change on Justin's docket sheet, and then she got formal notification in the mail. The appeal was happening. What is he appealing exactly? From what I understand, he is appealing the length of the sentence that he believes it was too harsh, and he's appealing his access to the children.

Originally, Justin was sentenced to 26 years and 10 months to 70 years in prison, with 12 years probation to follow his sentence. The judge also ordered that Justin was to have no contact with Tyler or his two younger siblings for the length of his sentence, even once they became adults. Are you prepared for that being changed? I wanted to give them that window of them being little

to them to get to 18, you know, to say, okay, I can make an informed decision whether or not I want to talk to my biological father or not. The judge extended it past that 18. For the length of his sentence. For the length of his sentence. For the length of his sentence. And the only thing that Tyler and I had talked about was that they should be able to decide at 18 if they want to speak to him or not.

As far as him getting anything granted back to him, you know, when they're children, at the end of the day, I have custody of them. I'm the one that would have to accept the phone calls from him. I'm the one that would have to put money on my account for them to speak to him. So I don't care if his rights get given back to him to talk to them. It still has to go through me. And I don't have any desire for him to speak to my children. Yeah. And, you know, I will support them if that's something that they want when they get of an age to make those kind of decisions where they know everything that happened, because I understand that they probably will maybe someday want

that. Right. I can understand and hold space for when they are adults. Yeah. You know, as a mom, like wanting to look to the future of your kid having agency as an adult and being able to give them that agency, I can understand that. Yeah. Stacey has not had contact with Justin since she learned about his plot to kill Tyler. It's been over two years, but recently she started writing letters to him as a way of dealing with her emotions. I've done it a few times in the last few months and never mailed anything.

Right. I would write it and I would hold on to it and then I would just throw it away. Yeah. One of the ones that I threw away was pretty vicious Yeah. One of the ones that I threw away was pretty vicious. And my sister was like, yeah, I don't think you should send that because she might go to jail for a threat. Because it was just in the moment I was very angry,

I was having one of those days. Like, where is all this anger and emotion coming from recently? I just think when you are going through everything first being found out, you're like living on adrenaline and you're just in survival mode. And then as soon as the trial stuff starts, then you're dealing with all of that. And I don't think you really have time to sit down and deal with like everything. So you just put first what needs to be put first I Think after all the stuff was done with both of the court cases and everything like that

Things I felt settled down a little bit but I think that's when all the other shit starts to kick in you know the The missing things and hurting and then being angry. Stacy decided to mail one of her most recent letters. In this letter, she mentions Nanny D. Nanny's like a mother to Justin, and she's the only one who's remained in his corner.

Stacey also writes about her financial situation. Justin was the breadwinner in the family. With him gone, Stacey's been left holding the bag, supporting her two young children on her own. Here's the letter. Nanny asked me the other day if you could have the kids signed up for a charity that provides toys for children of incarcerated parents. And I can't help but think the last thing we need is more toys. If in the next few years we may not even be able to afford a home to put those toys in. Yeah, that's my reality these days.

That's your children's reality these days. I see no light at the end of this tunnel. I remember you telling me I'd never have to live like this again. And I'm more soft." So when you heard about the kids charity of toys of incarcerated parents, what was your first reaction? Anger? I just I think I was more just like what? What the fuck? Like this is what we're worried about? Like him making sure that the kids have a gift from him.

And oh, but you know, isn't it nice that you're allowing someone else to buy that for you to give to them so that you don't have to spend any of your money that you need to spend on your lawyer for, you know, a gift for your kids. Justin has a private attorney and this infuriates Stacey. He somehow has the money to pay for his appeal, but has contributed nothing to the care of their children.

I don't know, it just, it rubbed me wrong. And I was just salty for a little bit about it. Right, it kind of just seems like he wants to be able to contribute in this way, but he's not understanding the larger impact that all of his actions have put you and the kids in. Like, it just felt like you were shaking him with this letter of like, you don't really know how bad things are because of everything that you've done. I am able to buy my kids things.

It's not like I'm totally destitute, to buy my kids things. It's not like I'm totally destitute. But you're using a charity for children who may not get a single thing. When you know good and well, you have money in your account. So you want to come in and be fun daddy, you know, oh, look daddy sent us a present when you really didn't do anything behind that. I'm Soledad O'Brien. And on my podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to the 1960s. Mary Pinchot Meyer was a painter who lived in Georgetown

in Washington, D.C. She was a painter who lived in the city of Washington, D.C. She was a painter who lived in the city of Washington, D.C.ot Meyer was a painter who lived in Georgetown in Washington, D.C. Every day, she took a daily walk along the towpath near the E&O Canal. So when she was killed in a wealthy neighborhood... She had been shot twice in the head and in the back behind the heart. The police arrived in a heartbeat. Within 40 minutes, a man named Raymond Crump Jr.

was arrested. He was found nearby, soaking wet, and he was black. Only one woman dared defend him, civil rights lawyer Dovey Roundtree. Join me as we unravel this story with a crazy twist, because what most people didn't know is that Mary was connected to a very powerful man. I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor provoke aggression.

John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Toe Path with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. to Murder on the Toe Path with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season One.

I just knew him as a kid. Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Um, Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed.

I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2. Jeremy. need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2, Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple podcasts. It's the early days of COVID, April 2020. A woman in a small town in Oklahoma makes

a strange post to Facebook and then disappears. I'm on day nine of this virus and I am pretty sure it has reached my lungs. I made the decision at the onset that if it got bad enough, I would not go to the hospital. Pretty quickly, a ragtag group of women on the internet start their own investigation. It felt like I was living out one of my fantasy dreams of being a detective. But the world they uncover is beyond their wildest imagination. How did this happen? Listen to What Happened to Talina's R on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. -♪ ECHOING TONE CONTINUES, MUSIC FADES OUT, FADES OUT. MUSIC FADES OUT, FADES OUT. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Connie Britton is here. I think you should encourage your friend to go ahead and not be holding out for any man to have her babies. If she is passionate about becoming a mother and she has her eggs frozen and she is passionate about becoming a mother

and she has her eggs frozen and she has her life together, go for it. She could be waiting another 10 years before she finds the right guy. Connie didn't meet her right guy until you were what, 50 Connie? How long have you guys been together? Yeah, no, 52. 52.

I adopted my son as a single mom because I kept thinking, oh, I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy, I'm going to meet the guy. I finally was like, what am I waiting for? And I did it. And I'm just so glad that I did.

I want to change the narrative about single parents and also help to create a community for single parents so that they can not feel alone in it. One of the big things is it's so hard, especially for women, to ask for help. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In December, right around the holidays,

we caught up with Stacey Rutherford, whose story we highlighted in season three. Recently, she wrote a letter to her ex-husband Justin while he remains in prison. Stacey shared that letter with us. There's this theme in your letter where you talk about, you know, you promised me that things were going to be different. Like, I'd already gone through a divorce.

I'd already gotten pretty far on raising two kids to end up in this place. That's a really intense cycle to be thinking about. Well, it's like, I remember saying to him when we were dating, jokingly, I'm not trying to be a single mom again to two small children. I've done it. I don't want to do it again. Okay, I'm just letting you know that you're either going to be married to me or I'm going to soak the life out of you for child support. So just be prepared for whichever one you want. And you know, he'd always say to me, I wouldn't do what your first husband did to you and

just walk out on you and basically leave you with nothing. And it's frustrating to be told you'll never have to worry about that again, Stacey. You'll never have to worry about anything like this. And to have more children, and I love them, and I wouldn't trade that. Of course. But I wouldn't have necessarily decided to have two more children in my late 30s

if I thought that I was gonna be raising them by myself. It's so interesting. It's like no matter the amount of conversations and things that you think that you're navigating and communicating, your brain just doesn't go to this worst case scenario. You just don't go there. Oh no. It's just that like, how dare you? Yeah. How dare you promise so many things that you had to know deep down you were never going

to be able to follow through? You know, it's just, it's, I don't know. There's days that I think to myself that I'm not the mom that I want to be. I don't want my kids to remember that I cried a lot or that I was sad or that I was just angry all the time because I've gotten, I think, to a level of anger a lot lately. Like I just feel like I'm really angry at the world and men and people and I don't want them to remember that. I'm just angry.

I'm just angry that so many of these things were taken away from all of us. It's impossible to even ask this, but like, what are you going to do about this anger? Well, to start, I have like, not been the greatest lately about my going to, you know, therapy. And I've kind of let myself get in a rut lately. Like, I find myself, you know, declining plans all the time, you know, I'm good, I'm just going to stay home or my bra is already off, girl, you know, I ain't putting that back on. But I also think to myself, is that contributing to me? Do I need to force myself to do these things? Because am I just making it worse by staying home

and festering on the fact that I'm alone and isolating and things like that? But I don't know, I just, I think that was part of writing the letter to him was I just, I just want you to know this is the kind of stuff that you have left me with. All of it feels like such an injustice. And sometimes you just need to like scream it from the mountaintops and the person that really needs to hear it. You just want to just like shove, you know, put it out there and scream it so that they

hear you. I mean, it did make me feel better at some point to write it. It just happened to be the one that I mailed. I don't know. I just must have been impulsive that day because the rest of them never made it. Progress is not a straight line. And there's a lot of similar rhetoric in this letter of where you were like in the beginning of a lot of things, you know, and you're going to make strides and getting yourself to a different place and then come back to these feelings that you have regarding this. And one day, I really do hope you find that whatever feeling

that you're longing for, you get it on your own. Yeah. And I do believe that you will get there. It's just like you said, it ebbs and flows. I felt like it's really hung on lately. But I also say to my sister too, sometimes like, I look at where I am now and I look at where I was three years ago and there is a difference. So I can see change and I can see that I have happy moments and that I enjoy life and things like that. I don't just sit around and cry all the time. I obviously go have fun, but I just have my moments. Yeah.

You know, and it hits at just different times. And this year lately, it's been hanging on. After the break, we'll hear from Stacey's son, Tyler. I'm Soledad O'Brien, and on my podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to the 1960s. Mary Pinchot Meyer was a painter who lived in Georgetown in Washington, D.C. Every day she took a daily walk along the towpath near the E&O Canal. So when she was killed in a wealthy neighborhood, she had been shot twice in the head and in the back behind the heart. The police arrived in a

heartbeat. Within 40 minutes, a man named Raymond Crump Jr. was arrested. He was found nearby, soaking wet, and he was black. Only one woman dared defend him, civil rights lawyer, Dovey Roundtree. Join me as we unravel this story with a crazy twist because what most people didn't know is that Mary was connected to a very powerful man. I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor provoke aggression.

John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Toe Path with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one. I just knew him as a kid. Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was

part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2. Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. It's the early days of COVID, April 2020, a woman in a small town in Oklahoma makes a strange post to Facebook and then disappears. I'm on day nine of this virus and I am pretty sure it has reached my lungs. I made the decision at the onset that if it got bad enough, I would not go to the hospital. Pretty quickly, a ragtag group of women on the internet

start their own investigation. It felt like I was living out one of my fantasy dreams of being a detective. But the world they uncover is beyond their wildest imagination. How did this happen? Listen to What Happened to Talina Czar on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Connie Britton is here. I think you should encourage your friend to go ahead and not be holding out for any man to have her babies. If she is passionate about becoming a mother and she has her eggs frozen and she has her life together, go for it. She could be waiting another 10 years before she finds the right guy. Connie didn't meet her right guy until you were what, 50 Connie? How long have you guys been together?

Yeah, no, 52. 52. I adopted my son as a single mom because I kept thinking, oh, I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I'm going to meet the guy. I finally was like, what am I waiting for? And I did it.

And I'm just so glad that I did. I want to change the narrative about single parents and also help to create a community for single parents so that they can not feel alone in it. One of the big things is it's so hard, especially for women, to ask for help. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we go, we wanted to share an update on Stacey's son Tyler. Over the last year, he's been sharing a lot of updates on his own.

What's up, my name is Tyler. I've made a goal with myself to post on TikTok as much as I can. His goal is to be an advocate for male survivors of trauma. I want to build a community for men out there, especially men like me out there. I've had a very traumatic life and went through some crazy things. And ever since then, I've felt kind of lost. And I know many men out there that have went through the same thing can feel that exact same feeling. Even if you haven't been through that exact traumatic experience or been sexually assaulted, I want to reach out to men and make a change in the men's space.

Let's push this. Let's build an awesome community together, guys. Let's do this. Through betrayal and through Tyler's posts, his story has reached a lot of people. We've received so many comments and emails calling Tyler an inspiration for speaking up. My producer met with Tyler and asked him how it feels to get all that positive feedback. It's crazy. I expected a little bit, not maybe quite as much as I've gotten. And it's heartwarming to read. I know that I achieved what I wanted to with the podcast when I get something like that, just to help someone else. For so long, Tyler thought he'd take what Justin did to him to his grave.

I think about it all the time, like my plan to just never say anything, because that's what was going to happen, and I was doing pretty damn good at it for quite a while. But when it came out that Justin had abused Tyler's friend, Tyler's family was concerned that he, too, was a victim. They kept asking him until he eventually disclosed to his aunt. Many male victims of sexual abuse keep what happened to them a secret for their whole lives. For example, Anthony Edwards, an actor Tyler spoke with in season 3, didn't disclose for

decades. I lived most of my life in fear because my experience of having been assaulted as a kid set me up for being afraid and not trusting in people, places or things. And it wasn't until I was 52 years old that I started talking about it and looking at it. It was one of the worst feelings to get it forced out of me, but now I'm so happy I did because I know how bad I feel sometimes, and I can't imagine how crazy my mind would be trying to process all this at 52.

I still feel the pain of holding it in for seven, eight years, however long, letting it out at 16. And that's young, I'm still a kid. Compared to these guys holding in 60 years, I can't imagine, no. I also wanted to hear about Tyler's career. When we last talked, he was considering going into the

military. But it's always been clear to me that fitness is Tyler's first love. He even did a TikTok about it. The gym is a great release from everyday stress, a release from life. In the last few years, I honestly have felt kind of lost and I just feel like I'm always scrambling to find myself. And the one place where I feel like I can really find myself is in the gym. The gym is my safe space and where I go to feel safe. When I was with Tyler last, he took me to the gym and we had a great time. So I was excited to learn.

I just recently pulled the trigger on a personal trainer certification just because fitness is my one passion I'd say and I just love to make money off of it. Hopefully I'll be finishing that soon and can get a job as a personal trainer. Earlier in this episode, Tyler's mom Stacey told us that Justin is appealing the length of his sentence and his ability to contact his children. We asked Tyler what he made of Justin's appeal. I'm not surprised, honestly, but I mean, that's all prisoners are going to do that. He can continue to try.

Ain't shit going to work. I mean, I really don't see anything happening. Worst comes to worst, he wins some sort of appeal and I have to go to trial. And now that I'm older and I've grown to balls to talk out to millions about my story, he's really screwed himself at this point. And I think if we go to trial, I'm just going to put him away for even longer. So I'm not worried about any of that really. He can keep trying.

At this point, Tyler feels sorry for Justin. I was talking to my mom last night about his computer, and I was like, I wonder whatever happened to his computer. Tyler's referencing the fact that Justin encrypted his computer when he knew the authorities were on to him. Tyler still thinks about that years later. the potential he wasted. The fact that you were smart enough to crack down a computer so hard our own government could not get into it for 3 years. How did he do that? The fact that you did that and then put yourself in jail? I mean I think we would have been one

of the richest families in the world if he would have not touched me. Like if he could have just not been a pedophile, we would have been so successful. I tell mom all the time, he really fucked shit up. Smartest person I know, I'll still say to this day. By far. I'm not saying in all senses. Don't think I'm putting him on a high horse. I'm just saying with as much as he did, I can still admit he was pretty damn smart. At the end of the chat, we asked Tyler what else he wanted people to know. I want I want people to know I'm not I'm not down in the dumps, but I'm also not perfect.

I'm not at the end of my road. I'm still probably not even 75% of the way down. I'm probably around the middle, I'd say. I'm probably around there. I don't know. It's hell a lot of the time. It really is. I mean, I wake up and I feel like shit immediately. I just know the right things to do to stop that now. I just gotta get there. I just want people to know that I'm not perfect and anyone else out there that's going through some similar stuff, you just gotta keep working on it.

I mean, I know it sucks, it really does. I'd love to not have to constantly work on myself and just not have this trauma and be quote unquote normal. But it's part of life and you just gotta deal with it. So, you gotta work hard to be happy. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at betrayalpod.gmail.com. That's betrayal, P-O-alpod at gmail.com. That's betrayalpod at gmail.com.

Also, please be sure to follow us at Glass Podcasts on Instagram for all Betrayal content news and updates. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in

partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Produced by Caitlin Golden. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Special thanks to Stacey Rutherford, Tyler, and the rest of Stacey and Tyler's friends and family. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Zalvecchio. Editing support from Tanner Robbins. The Trails theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by MIBE Music. theme composed by Oliver Baines, Music Library provided by MIBE Music. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's April 2020. A woman announces on Facebook that she has COVID and won't be seeking medical attention. I didn't want to be talked out of this plan. Then she disappears.

Uh, anyone else think this is strange? I just had to know, how did this happen? Listen to what happened to Talina Czar on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler, Connie Britton is here. Get your podcasts. until you were what, 50, Connie? 52, 52. 52. I kept thinking, oh, I'm gonna meet the guy, I'm gonna meet the guy, I'm gonna meet the guy. I finally was like, what am I waiting for?

And I did it, and I'm just so glad that I did. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Soledad O'Brien, and on my new true crime podcast, Murder on the Towpath, I'm taking you back to 1964, to the cold case of artist Mary Pinchomire. She had been shot twice in the head and in the back. It turns out Mary was connected to a very powerful man.

I pledge you that we shall neither commit nor provoke aggression. John F. Kennedy. Listen to Murder on the Towpath with Soledad O'Brien on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.