Betrayal - S4: EP 1 — One of the Good Ones

Episode Date: May 22, 2025

Karoline built her life around her husband's career as a Colorado Springs police officer. The family was proud of his service, until they learned that the only person he was serving was himself.   If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod. To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com.  You can listen new episodes of Betrayal Season 4 completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart podcast. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, Danity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Day,

covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all, it's your girl Tia Madison coming to you live and in color from the Outlaws Podcast. We're talking to Chaperone and Sasha Colby. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator. In the Midwest, they told you, would you just be humble? Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian Goat.

Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, a Jehovah's Witness skill there. Yeah. Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. My family still is. Hey. Or no.

Hi. Ha ha ha! Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel.

When we step beyond the edge of what we know. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. I was dead for 11.5 minutes. ...and return... It's a miracle I was brought back. ...Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to

your favorite shows. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, before we dive into the episode, we have exciting news.

Betrayal is coming to Substack, which is an online community. We're calling our Substack Beyond Betrayal, a place where we dive deeper into the stories you hear on this show. Please consider joining our community to gain access to exclusive content, engage with me and subjects, as well as connect with others who have experienced betrayal. Just head to Betrayal.Substack, that's S-U-B-S-T-A-C-K, or just go to substack.com, search Beyond Betrayal, and hit subscribe. I'm ashamed to admit I loved you. That's what makes us hurt so bad is because I cared so much

about you. My family is the most important thing in the world to me, and it still is, but now there's just one less member of it. I cared about you more than anything I looked up to you. You are an inspiration to me. You ruined my life. You ruined my baby sister's life. You ruined my beautiful mother's life. That's what hurts the most is because I genuinely cared so much about you. I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Season 4, Episode 1. One of the good ones. Hi everyone! I'm excited to be back for Season 4 of Betrayal. It's just incredible how much this community has grown and I wanted to take a moment to give you my most heartfelt thank you for

supporting this series as well as our weekly series. No matter how you found betrayal, I'm really happy you're here. Now for the next several weeks, we will be focusing on one story. A story that we learned about only because a woman named Caroline and her daughter learned about us. By the way, some names have been changed to protect privacy. My name is Nicole. My mom was driving me up to school.

It was my first semester of college, so me driving up my freshman year, it's an eight-hour drive. Nicole's mom, Caroline Borrego, was the driver. I had said, you know, I'm tired of listening to different music. My daughter found the podcast and so she was like, oh, look at this. This is rated like super high. Let's listen to this. And so I said, okay.

And so after we started listening, we were both just locked in. And after just a couple episodes, I was fighting my tears and I said nothing to her and she said nothing to me. And then finally, you know, she broke the ice and she looked at me and she said, you know, mommy, this could be our family. I said I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the same thing. That thought stuck with Caroline, enough to motivate her to send us an email. And before we knew it, my producer Carrie and I found ourselves in Colorado Springs, where we met Caroline Borrega at her home. Caroline is a mother of two who works in law enforcement.

Her house is beautiful with vaulted ceilings in a cozy suburb of the Springs. If one thing stuck out to me, this was a forever home. She was warm, welcoming, and not alone. Little did we know we were guests of a special night Caroline does with the people closest to her. It's called Supper Club, and they do it every Sunday night. They drink wine, crack jokes, and unwind

before the start of another week. These friends never miss a supper club. Do you want another one of these? I mean... Okay, okay. We were complete strangers, and the night could not have felt more comfortable. You scared me.

I'm not, though. To those of them who wish us well, fuck the rest, they can go to hell. After dinner, Caroline gave us a tour of the dream home she built with her husband of over 20 years. She showed us trophies and ribbons from her kids' sports careers. There were instruments and elementary school art projects. And there were family photos smiling at us in frames all over the house. This was a happy home of a happy family.

But when we looked a little closer, we realized that many of the photos weren't of Caroline's family at all. They were actually stock photos, the kind you get when you buy a frame at the store. It became overwhelmingly clear. Caroline had deleted parts of her life. Actually, just one part of her life.

The most painful one. Caroline had removed all traces of her husband, her now ex-husband, Joel Kern. Would you please state your full name with a spelling for the record? Joel Kern, K-E-R-N, and J-O-E-L. Joel was a decorated member of the Colorado Springs Police Department. He had taken an oath to protect and serve the community. How long have you been employed by CSPD? 25 years.

But on April 11, 2022, Caroline discovered that the only person Joel was serving was himself. I'm at work and I see a notification on my phone. It's our house cameras and I look and I see it's Joel and he's dragging up the trash cans. Will you be answering all of our questions concerning this matter truthfully today? Yes. And so I just sent him a quick text and I said, hey, what are you doing home so early? And he didn't respond.

Tell us, why do you think those allegations against you were brought forward? And then I sent him another text. Joel, is everything OK? I see like the three little dots. I'll ask you specifically, have you ever uploaded WhatsApp on your cell phone number? And he responded back, no, everything's not okay. I fucked up the worst I've ever fucked up in my life.

You're going to want to divorce me. Season four is about truth. It's the foundation upon which trust is built. So what happens when someone manipulates the truth? What happens when a person or an institution believes that they are above the truth? For Caroline, her husband's lies completely undermined her sense of reality. It's been a hard few years for Caroline and her family.

Before we sat down with her, she looked to her daughter for strength. She was very sweet and said, you are brilliant, resilient, and beautiful, and you deserve to tell the truth of the story. You deserve to let people know what we went through. That's all the permission I needed." Nicole always felt a deep kinship with her father, Joel Kern.

I really idolized my dad. I thought we had similar personalities. We had the same humor, same kind of confrontational style. And for Joel, it wasn't just a job. It was part of his identity. During Nicole's childhood, he rose up the ranks in the Colorado Springs Police Department. And for most of her life, he worked unusual hours.

My dad did work nights for the majority of my life. And so most of the time, I would only see him like during dinner time. I was kind of proud of that in a way because he was serving our community and I was really happy to see him and all of his cop friends and like spending most birthdays at the substation and all that." Substation was a new word for me. It's another word for precinct. Caroline made sure not to skip celebrations just because Joel worked at night. She brought the kids over and they

celebrated birthdays and holidays at the substation. So Joel wouldn't miss out and the kids would have their dad at milestone events. I did maybe idolize him more than my mom, just because my mom was constant throughout my life. I wanted his connection just because he wasn't really there for a lot of the daily events with my brother and I. Joel's career was always the family's priority. When he had to miss the kids' sports games or recitals, it was for good reason. Their dad was on the side of justice. Integrity. And this didn't happen by accident. Caroline and Joel designed their life around his career.

In fact, the day she first laid eyes on Joel, he was in uniform. It was 1998 and Caroline was fresh out of college, starting her first full-time job as a domestic violence advocate. I was told from my employers that one of the things that would be required of me as a component of my training for the position would be to complete a rattle along with the Colorado Springs Police Department. So I showed up at the substation and I'm all 22 years old, freshly graduated, just celebrated my birthday and I meet this police officer and his name was Troy. The first part of what we were going to do for the evening is that we would sit in the lineup room

and I would be able to listen to a police lineup. When Caroline says lineup, she's talking about the briefing officers receive at the start of their shift. It's when the sergeant gives out updates and assignments. As lineup's getting ready to begin, this person walks in, he's very tall and very handsome and just looks kind of discombobulated.

He's carrying a radar gun and a clipboard while still trying to balance this coffee mug. And everyone's kind of giggling and the police sergeant said, well, I guess we can start lineup when Joel finds his seat, everyone. And I'm staring at him and I admit I was just awestruck. He was handsome and young and when he sat down, I could see him turning back around and staring at me. And you know, I get flushed and I look away, but the times when I would look over and we caught eyes,

there's no other way to put it. It was electrifying. There was something happening between them. Caroline didn't know it then, but that night would alter the trajectory of her life. And since we're going to be talking a lot about the Colorado Springs Police Department, I'll refer to it as the CSPD from now on. And then as lineup finished, Troy came back to me and he said, okay, are you ready to get going? And before we were leaving the lineup room, Joel came kind of hurriedly over to us and he said,

Troy, don't forget, I'm your partner tonight. And Troy just kind of let out this sigh. And then he looked at me and he said, and this is Joel clearly trying to insert himself to get himself introduced to you. Joel, this is Caroline. The ride along was routine, but it was a long night. When they returned to the substation, Caroline was ready to get home. And as I'm approaching my car,

Joel kind of almost running out, comes out to me. He was like, hey, I just wanted to say good night to you. I know that you're new in town, so I wanted to give you my business card and let you know that if you ever needed to be shown around town or if you wanted a tour of the city, let me know. And I said, I don't need to be shown around this town. I grew up here. So I have no need for a tour guide. Caroline was playing it cool, but he gave her his number anyway.

I just took the business card and got in my car. I drove home that night and my mom was waiting up for me. She was like, Oh, I'm just so relieved you're home safely. I've been waiting up. I couldn't sleep. How was the evening? And the first words out of my mouth before anything were, I met the man I'm going to marry. And my mom sat there in silence and then she stared at me and her next response was, Jesus Christ,

it better not be a cop. And I just started laughing. Jesus Christ, it better not be a cop. And I just started laughing. I went to bed and I fell asleep for a couple hours. And when I woke up, I rolled over and I had Joel's business card on my nightstand and I picked up the phone. This is 1998. I used my parents' landline, called his work, and I left a voicemail for him.

I said, hey, it's Caroline. I don't need a tour guide, but if you ever want to get together sometime, let me know. And within 20 or 30 minutes, my parents' house line rang. And after I said hello, the first words out of his mouth were, what took you so long to call me? Hey y'all, it's your girl, T.S. Madison, coming to you live and in color from the Outlaws podcast. On this week's episode, we're talking to none other than Chaperone and Sasha Colby. And let me tell you, no topping is off limits, honey. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator.

I worked at Scooter's Coffee Drive-Thru Kiosk. And you are from the Midwest. Mm-hmm. And in the Midwest, they told you, well, just be humble. Like, you've heard this countless times. You, too, right? Oh, yeah.

It's very, like, big in Hawaii. Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian guilt. Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, some Jehovah's Witness guilt there. Yeah. Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. So you were Jehovah's Witness? I grew up that Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. So you were Jehovah's Witness?

I grew up that, yeah. My family still does. Hey. Oh no, bye. Listen, she may have been working the drive-through in 2020, but she's the name on everybody's lips now, honey. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum-selling artist, Danydy King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day is sitting next to us here.

You are, as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place some people saw that you were going to be in new york and they immediately started jumping to conclusions so can you clear that up first of all are you here to testify in the ditty trial aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her first-hand knowledge from her days on making the band as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamour. It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real.

I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents Aubrey O'Day covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark.

I'm dying. We step beyond the edge of what we know. To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that Western box. And return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. My name is Dan Bush.

My mission is simple. To find, explore, and share these stories. I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor. You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable. To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who is smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit,

and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid. Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me.

And they had secrets of their own to share. Um, Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer, he's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known.

If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2. Jeremy.

Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of BONE VALLEY, SEASON 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Joel wanted to see her that night, but she had plans. It was Caroline's turn to cook Sunday dinner for her family. To her surprise, he was down to show up at her parents' and bravely dine with her mom, dad, and two older sisters.

He was a trooper with it. I mean, he was very coldly greeted by my parents. My sisters were incredibly amused by the fact that I had just met this person on a ride along and I was inviting him over for Sunday dinner and so you know they were giddy and giggly about it. Joel and Caroline were skipping a lot of steps. This would typically be date 10, not date one. But it felt right having Joel there beside her. And from that moment on,

we became inseparable. And I should clarify, I mean, inseparable as we could be with regards to his schedule. He worked four days on and had three days off. And the four days that he worked on were 10 hour shifts at night. But when they were together, it was like the beginning all over again.

Caroline and Joel made the most of the gorgeous landscape in Colorado. We enjoyed driving up to see the leaves when they changed and going on different hikes and driving through different passes and going to different mountain towns. We were both young and you know you're in love and attracted to each other. They had met early in the summer of 1998 and And in the fall, Caroline had planned to go to graduate school a few hours away in Boulder. But Joel wasn't about to let her get away.

When it came time for me to go to graduate school, Joel had said to me, my career is established and you have so many connections here in your hometown. Why don't you just stay? And we had a little bit of a negotiation where I said, well, I'm not going to dismiss graduate school. This is something that I'd like to stay and pursue. I'll enroll at the local university here.

Here's Caroline's best friend, Debra. We started hanging out more because we played on a recreational volleyball league together. And Joel was a part of that. Debra is, as Carolyn says, her ride or die. They met back in their 20s at work, and they even have a nickname for each other. It's Selly. We're like, if we ever go to jail, we'd be cellmates. Our little partner's in crime, and so we call each other Sally.

Debra knew Joel from the beginning of their relationship. You know, they were always great together. I looked up to them as a couple. She was very attentive to him. He seemed attentive to her. He was great. There was like two different Jules. There was work mode Joel who was very serious, took his job seriously. And then there was Joel outside of work that loved to hang out, loved to, you know, have a drink here and there. And we just always had a good time.

Caroline loved him. Her friends and family had grown to love him. They were dating for a little over two years when... We were getting ready to go out somewhere, I can't even remember where, what we were going to do. And I went upstairs to get my shoes on and get a coat or whatever. And I turned around and there

he was with a ring. And that's how we got engaged. The engagement was simple, but planning the wedding wouldn't be. Caroline was Catholic, but Joel wasn't. That meant they couldn't get married in her church. But then, Joel did something extraordinary that surprised Caroline. Joel said, I'll convert for you. I just thought, oh my God, thank you. It just drew us closer together and just made me feel that much more loved and special

that he was willing to do that. Once Joel was confirmed as part of the Catholic Church, he and Caroline prepared for the sacrament of marriage. We needed to do premarital counseling with our priest. The counseling was actually something that was extremely relevant and beneficial. I mean there was a litany of discussions that were had and one of the discussions surrounded infidelity. And so I told him, I just want you to know that I will work through and do anything for you.

But I had two rules. Don't ever lay a hand on me and don't ever cheat on me. Anything else I commit and promise to, I will work through." And he said, I agree. And we had a mass of 150 people on a Friday evening. Three years after they met, on July 27th, 2001, Caroline and Joel got married. He invited a childhood friend to do a reading and she was excited to be part of the ceremony.

Love is patient and kind. Love does not envy or boast. It is not arrogant or rude. And it was just so beautiful. Just so beautiful. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. So around June of 2002, I was at Target one day. I was in the book area and wanted to get a nice journal. And I passed by this book, What to Expect When You're Expecting.

And it was just kind of this moment of, when was the last time I got my period? And I started looking at the book and I was giggling to myself and I thought, I should probably take a test. And I was pregnant. She took the test while Joel was sleeping, but she wanted to share the news with him right away. He sat straight up in bed, stared at me for a second, and then he said, this is what you want, right? And I said, I do. What about you? And he said, yes, of course. Of course I want to be a dad. Once the shock were off, they were both really looking forward to having a baby.

You know, we told our parents right away and everyone was just so excited for us. Caroline threw herself into preparing for motherhood, and Joel began to focus on providing for his growing family. It was important for him at this point to advance his career because he wanted to be able to provide the best he could for me and our child and if we had other children. During her pregnancy, the couple made an agreement that Joel's career as a cop would be the centerpiece of their life. It was a sacrifice for the betterment of their family

and for the entire community. There were occasions where his work impeded some factors with me being pregnant. He missed doctor's appointments and would call and say, I can't make it because I'm at work still. Caroline experienced some lonely days, but the couple was working for the future. Our son was born and thankfully healthy, beautiful baby boy.

Joel stayed home just a couple of days and went right back to work and was very adamant that he wanted to focus on his career and making sure that he showed that he was someone who was worthy of being promoted, especially now that we had a child. As for Caroline's career, it was more flexible. She isn't an officer herself.

She asked us not to disclose her exact job title. We'll just say she works in the justice system and collaborates with law enforcement. So Caroline had the utmost respect for the work her husband did. I knew what I was getting into. I knew when I married a cop that I was going to be alone a night, that we agreed he would have the ability to make more money and that I would be the person who would support it because I had a more flexible schedule than him. Two years after their son was born, Caroline and Joel welcomed a baby girl.

Our daughter was born in 2005. And then they saw their sacrifices start to pay off. Eleven days after our daughter was born, Joel was promoted to the rank of sergeant. Being a midnight sergeant was his focus for many, many years. We would have dinner together as a family and then he would leave for work by 8 p.m. and then I was home with the kids at night. Despite the difficult hours, Joel embraced fatherhood. As the kids grew, Joel and Caroline brought them along for all their outdoor adventures.

They even got an RV. We would go on biking trips together and hiking trips together and camping trips together. You could see he just enjoyed being around the kids and watching them live these moments and experiences through their lens. From those early days, Joel encouraged their son to get involved in his community.

Here's their son. He was a leader all throughout my Boy Scout career until I became an Eagle Scout. They even traveled to Florida for a scouting trip. Going key to key and snorkeling on shipwrecks and seeing all the sharks and the sea wildlife was probably the most memorable. And Joel found ways to bond with her daughter, Nicole. I'm really big into lacrosse. I've been playing lacrosse my whole life. He was the one that

always took me to my lacrosse games, my lacrosse practices. Both kids enjoyed the benefits of their dad being a cop because they had access to exciting experiences. Getting to see the jail cells or the armory or the police motorcycles. Then there was Joel's police car. Getting to play with the sirens and then getting older, being able to go on police ride-alongs and all that. The car was a symbol of their dad's power and authority. Of his values, his service. Despite Joel working nights, their family thrived.

Both kids were passionate about sports and became competitive athletes, and they were focused, hardworking students. Things just really felt like they were on this great trajectory. The saying was that the Kern family doesn't accept mediocrity, which is half joking, half not. After eight years working as a sergeant, Joel was tapped for an important assignment. He actually was given an opportunity to become a sergeant for internal affairs. Internal Affairs is a department that investigates complaints and allegations of misconduct against its own officers.

The new job meant Joel would work regular business hours and be home at night. I craved being able to have him at home. It wasn't so much a matter of that I needed or wanted help. It was a matter of wanting to have the normalcy to sit together and hold hands in the stands at the kids' games, to be able to not have to rush, to be able to actually have a meal at the kitchen table, falling asleep with someone at night,

being able to get ready together in the morning. Some simplistic activities like cutting up the vegetables for dinner together and cleaning up together and talking together. It was just this time to finally exhale and have some time together as a family. It was just so welcomed. She craved that companionship.

When Joel moved to internal affairs, he began sharing more about his work with Caroline. Every industry has its good and bad operators, but some of what Joel revealed was disturbing. I started to hear about people who engaged in some pretty concerning, immoral, and unsavory acts while under the guise of a police officer. It was eye-opening to see how discipline worked at CSPD, what conduct could get you fired, and how honesty could save your job, even for very serious offenses.

Caroline was proud that Joel was well-liked and respected. Here's a retired CSPD officer. He asked that we call him Dan. He was always pretty cheerful. I actually always appreciated after he got promoted how he treated his officers and stuff. He treated him really well and I think he set good expectations for him and seemed to generally care about the cops that were working for him. His family beamed whenever he was honored for his work, especially his daughter.

I was very proud that my dad was a police officer. She remained proud, even as the public's relationship with law enforcement faced a watershed moment. faced a watershed moment. There were riots in my town in 2020, and my dad was constantly out working. And, you know, during that time, I was really proud of him just because I saw the sacrifices that he was making.

These were the George Floyd protests that were shaking the nation to its core. The mountain town of Colorado Springs was no exception. Dan was working for the department then and recalls the experience. For us, it was pretty substantial. I mean, we had a good week or so of several thousand people out in the streets.

It got actually fairly hairy at times as far as just the potential for violence to really get set off. Caroline and Joel wanted their community to know that while they supported the police, they did not accept the kind of policing that led to George Floyd's death. Joel was a police officer who absolutely disagreed with what occurred to George Floyd and made sure anywhere we went socially or publicly known that he did not believe how that circumstance and situation was handled. Even though she supported the protests, she was scared for her husband's safety. He had to work the front lines.

People were throwing frozen water bottles or rocks and he would say, oh look, look at this bruise that popped up. This was from a frozen water bottle. We had friends who they knew that he was working long hours and would hear from me that he hadn't been home for 16, 17 hours and they were bringing food over and checking in on him, letting him know that they were praying for him, that they knew he was one of the good ones.

That's what they all thought. That he was one of the good ones. and in color from the Outlaws podcast. On this week's episode, we're talking to none other than Chaperone and Sasha Colby. And let me tell you, no topping is off limits, honey. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creator. I worked at Scooter's Coffee drive-through kiosk. And you are from the Midwest. Mm-hmm.

And in the Midwest, they told you, well, just be humble. Like, you've heard this countless times. You too, right? Oh, yeah, it's very, like, big in Hawaii. Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian guilt. Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, some Jehovah's Witness guilt there. Yeah.

Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. So you were Jehovah's Witness? I grew up that, yeah. My family still has hate. Or no, fine. Listen, she may have been working the drive-through in 2020, but she's the name on everybody's lips now, honey. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. Amy Robach and T.J. Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, platinum- selling artist, Denity King alum Aubrey O'Day joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Aubrey O'Day is sitting next to us here.

You are, as we sit here, right up the street from where the trial is taking place. Some people saw that you were going to be in New York and they immediately started jumping to conclusions. So can you clear that up? First of all, are you here to testify in the Ditty Trial? Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise based on her firsthand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band

as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be opposite of the glitz and glamor. It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Day covering the Diddy Trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. My parachute did not deploy. I was kidnapped by a drug cartel. I just remember everything getting dark. I'm dying. We step beyond the edge of what we know. To open our consciousness to something more than just what's in that western box.

In return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was that Western box. In return. I clinically died. The heart stopped beating. Which I was dead for 11.5 minutes. My name is Dan Bush. My mission is simple, to find, explore, and share these stories. I'm not a victim, I'm a survivor.

You're strongest when you're the most vulnerable. To remind us what it means to be alive. Not just that I was the guy that cut his arm off, but I'm the guy who is smiling when he cut his arm off. Alive Again, a podcast about the fragility of life, the strength of the human spirit, and what it means to truly live. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley season one. I just knew him as a kid.

Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Um, Gilbert came. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer.

He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now, I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2. Jeremy.

Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Caroline knew Joel was one of the good ones. She had seen it with her own eyes. Joel was her rock during one of the hardest

moments of her life. I describe for you just how close I was with my parents. Joel was with me and my family when my dad passed away in 2011. And then in 2016, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. My mom was scheduled to go in for just a routine appointment in December of 2016. And I had a court obligation with my job and I couldn't attend the appointment and said, you know, should I cancel it? Should I get coverage? My mom said, no, no, no, it's just routine.

And maybe I'll ask Joel to go with me and then I can take him out for a lunch date. And I was sitting at my desk at work anticipating that I would get an update. And Joel called me and he said, hey, are you alone? And I said, yeah. And he said, I gotta talk to you about your mom's appointment.

And so I said, okay, is everything okay? He said, no. And he said, all of her labs came back really concerning. And at this point, the oncologist says there's just really nothing that they can do for her. And your mom doesn't want to try anything else. And I just walked out of work and I drove to my mom's house and she was laying in bed. He was sitting next to her holding her hands.

And she died, February 1st, 2017. And he was there for those last moments. I remember that night laying next to him and I said, You and the kids are all I have now. And he said, we're gonna be together till the day we die. We'll be grandparents. We have these two great kids. The same mother who once said,

don't tell me you're marrying a cop, had come to trust him, to love him. One of the pieces of my mom passing away was that she left him in charge of all of her affairs. So he handled my mom's estate for her. Joel stepped in again when Caroline was faced with an uncomfortable decision. I inherited different things and one of them was a specific rental property that I just did not want. Caroline asked for discretion here but I will say this the property had a lot of dark history in her family. I said I don't

want this I hate this place it has bad memories it's always been a problem in my family I don't want this rental property. And he said, it's passive income. I'll handle everything about it. You don't need to worry about it. He stuck to his word and took charge of the rental property. And take note, the rental property is important because it's going to come back later in Caroline's story. Actually, almost every anecdote you've heard

up until this point will, too. Soon after the loss of Caroline's mother, another exciting career opportunity came Joel's way. The CSPD public information officer was retiring, and Joel was offered the position on a temporary basis. This role meant he'd be the face of the department, handling media relations and serving as the spokesperson. Here he is, giving an interview to a journalist. Is it like during this time of year that homicides kind of picked up? I don't think there's any science per se on when a homicide would occur, because for the most part it's an intimate violent crime.

We're often committed by somebody that you know. Joel would be the person at different crime scenes or at different organizations or events where he would give the speech on behalf of the police department. Joel loved being the CSPD spokesperson. And he loved the recognition. He would light up if we were in the grocery store or if he was outside mowing the lawn and one of the neighbors would point out

or someone would randomly point out, "'Oh my gosh, I saw you on TV.'" Their home office was almost a shrine to Joel's accomplishments, with newspaper clippings and plaques. He even jokingly referred to it as the love me room. They were all proud of him. Plus, the job meant he was on the day shift, and that meant more time together. Once the temporary role as public

information officer ended, Joel tried to get as much experience across multiple departments as he could. It was the best path to leadership. Eventually his hard work was recognized, and before long, he was up for the rank of lieutenant. This was a promotion, but it came with a drawback. He would be back on the grueling night shift, at least for the time being. And just as I did with him when he was trying to become a sergeant, I mock interview questions, read over his promotional book, took a look at all that stuff, and in 2017 he was promoted to lieutenant. Then a year later in 2018, Joel was offered the role of public information officer. But this time, it would be permanent.

He came home and we were both excited because he was selected for it. About two weeks later, he came home early in the morning and was just acting very strange. And I asked him, what's going on? He said, I had a falling out with the chief. And I said, you had a falling out with the chief of police. And he said, I had a falling out with him. And he's taken away my opportunity to be the public information officer. And I'm like, what are you talking about? What happened?

Eventually, Joel revealed something that shook Caroline. He'd been grappling with reoccurring memories of a childhood trauma. It was something she'd known about. She didn't realize it was interfering with his work. Joel explained how the stress had built up, leading to an explosive confrontation with the chief. With Caroline's unwavering support, he agreed to start therapy. Caroline found Joel a counselor experienced with first responders and PTSD. The PIO job? It was a loss, but Joel's mental health was the priority.

And later the same year, Joel was given another daytime assignment, overseeing special events for the department. The job had its perks — he organized the motorcade with the Secret Service whenever the president or vice president came to town. And for Caroline, it meant more time together as a family, and more quality time with her husband. And for a while, Joel seemed well.

Then one night, they attended one of their son's sporting events together. Joel was distracted and despondent. He became extremely withdrawn and very agitated. And so this is about 2019. Caroline was concerned. He was obviously in distress. Their son just turned 16 and started driving. I said something to him and his commentary was, it's because I can't get out of my

head that he's driving and he could be in an accident. Like he said to me, you know, I think of all the kids who I've seen in accidents, who've been killed, and I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. I can't stop thinking about it. And so he's telling me this and I was mortified. Police officers are the first responders to a lot of disturbing situations. So it wasn't a surprise that Joel experienced this type of PTSD. These moments were tough, but they were infrequent.

of PTSD. These moments were tough, but they were infrequent. Caroline looked for the joy in their lives and made it a point to celebrate all the good they had. Our son graduated from high school. Our daughter had her 16th birthday and we celebrated 20 years of marriage. They wanted to celebrate big with a family beach vacation. Here's Caroline and Joel's son. I took my best friend from home and then my family, family friends, we all went down to Mexico. Joel and Caroline were devising a plan of their own for their anniversary. Joel and I had talked about renewing our vows, and he suggested we keep it a surprise.

He said, let's not tell anyone, let's, you know, get everyone together somehow on the beach. It was a surprise when I saw growing up, I never ever saw my dad cry. And so he started like tearing up and you know, his voice cracking a little bit when he was just talking about how the first time he proposed to my mom, it wasn't the best proposal. And so this was a re-deal, he said, and he like got on one knee and gave my mom a new engagement ring. And so, you know, I started tearing up because I never saw my dad kind of express his emotions like that. Caroline shared some photos with me. She looks stunning in a long white dress with a low back.

In one shot, her son walks beside her on the beach and her daughter holds flowers. The kids look so proud of their parents. She did look like a bride, so it was cool to see her all dolled up. Their son can still picture it. It was a proud moment for me because I walked my mom down the quote unquote aisle, more like a sidewalk to the beach. The ceremony left their family and friends feeling an afterglow long past the trip. But less than a year later, in March of 22, Joel's mental health took another turn for the worse.

Caroline was terrified. She had never seen him so upset or vulnerable. And I said, you know, what's going on? And he says to me, Caroline, I think I'm having, I think I'm having a nervous breakdown. Like I can't stop thinking about so many things. He was having horrifying intrusive thoughts that wouldn't stop.

He's crying and I'm crying. He was sitting on the couch and I'm sitting there and I'm kneeling in front of him and I just said, quit. Just quit. You know, you've done this for over 25 years. Just quit. We'll figure it out. I can't stand seeing you like this.

I don't want you to feel like this. The job must have been weighing on him for decades, and it was all coming out now. The couple had heart-to-hearts. Joel opened up about his parents' details he'd never shared before. They started talking about the future, about what life could look like if he changed careers. Caroline didn't care what he did. She just wanted him healthy, happy. Then on Sunday, April 10th,

Joel did something no one saw coming. It rocked his family in the best way. Our daughter wanted to go to church. He never went. And as our daughter and I are getting ready, he emerges and says, he's going with us. And our daughter said, daddy, are you serious? he emerges and says he's going with us. And our daughter said, "'Daddy, are you serious?

"'You're really gonna go to church with us?' "'And he said, yes.' "'And so we go to bed that night, next day. "'I love you, I love you. "'I'm proud of you for making all of these "'committed changes for yourself. "'I know I feel really good about it. "'Let's keep talking about it. "'I love it, for yourself. I know I feel really good about it. Let's keep talking about it.

I love it, sounds good. Kiss and goodbye. She thinks about that moment often because it was the last time she understood her world. And as I'm at work, it's about 1.30 in the afternoon and I'm in an online meeting and I see a notification on my phone. And so it's our house cameras.

There's someone detected at the front door and in my driveway. And I look and I see it's Joel. And he's dragging up the trash cans. It was trash day. And I thought, that's weird. Wonder why he's home. And so I just sent him a quick text and I said, hey, I'm in an online meeting. What are you doing home so early? And he didn't respond. And I'm watching him. I'm watching him pull up the trash

can. I'm watching him pull up the recycle. And then I think to myself, where's his take-home car? You know, I don't see his take-home cop car. And then I sent him another text. Joel, is everything OK? How come you're home so early? And so I see, like, the three little dots, the ellipses just kind of bouncing on my phone screen. And he responded back, no everything's not okay.

I fucked up the worst I've ever fucked up in my life. I've ruined our lives. You're going to want to divorce me. I stared at that text for several seconds and then I said, what is going on? What is going on? And he wouldn't respond back to me. And I said, I'm going to leave work. Please tell me what is going on? What is going on? And he wouldn't respond back to me. And I said, I'm going to leave work.

Please tell me what is going on. You have me terrified. And then he texted back. I was caught receiving oral sex from two women in my cop car. I lied about it during an internal affairs investigation. I am now pending termination. I just sat there at my desk

and I gently closed my laptop. I didn't excuse myself from my online meeting and I didn't tell anyone I was leaving work. I kept my composure until I could walk outside and I was on a street corner headed to my car, which was parked in a garage before I just started breaking down and I called him and I remember just tears streaming down my face and I said, what did you do? What did you do? And he just kept chanting, I'm

sorry, I'm so sorry. This season on Betrayal, the good guy Joel appeared to be was all a facade. Based on that information, tell me what happened that you believe was the basis for the allegations. I would say that, you know, it wouldn't be something that I'd want. My wife or kids reading, obviously.

Did part of you know, deep down, that this was wrong? Yes. The momentary times you had these encounters, did it make you feel good?" Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season 4. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at betrayalpod at gmail.com. That's betrayal, P-O-D, at gmail.com. Also, please be sure to follow us on Instagram at BetrayalPod and me, Andrea H. Gunning, for all Betrayal content, news, and updates. One way to support this series is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal.

Five-star reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Faison. Betrayal is hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Carrie Hartman. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristen Malkuri.

Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Story editing by Monique Laborde. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Editing by Tanner Robbins. Voice acting by Kaitlyn Golden. And special thanks to Caroline and her family. The trail's theme is composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by My Music.

And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes here. Diddy's former protege, television personality, Danity King alum Aubrey O'Day, joins us to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation.

It wasn't all bad, but I don't know that any of the good was real. I went through things there. Listen to Amy and TJ Presents, Aubrey O'Day, covering the Diddy trial on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, y'all. It's your girl T.S. Madison coming to you live and in color from the Outlaws Podcast.

We're talking to Chaperone and Sasha Colby. We talk about the lovers, the haters, and the creators. In the Midwest, they told you, we'll just be humble. Mine was, I think, wrapped up in, like, Christian Goat. Oh, yeah. We definitely had, like, wrapped up in like Christian Go. Oh yeah. We definitely had like a Jehovah's Witness skills there. Yeah.

Yeah. Wait, were you Jehovah's Witness? Yeah. My family still is. Hey. Or no, hi. Hi. Hi.

Hi. Listen to Outlaws with T.S. Madison on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. What happens when we come face to face with death? My truck was blown up by a 20 pound anti-tank mine. or wherever you get your podcasts, honey. and return. It's a miracle I was brought back. Alive Again, a podcast about the strength of the human spirit. Listen to Alive Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1.

Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.