Betrayal - Students — Bonus | Jenifer's Story

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

After Betrayal Season 1 was released many of Spencer’s former students reached out to the show. Jennifer and Andrea speak with a two students to understand how the arrest and their interactions with Spencer have affected them. We hear from former student Paul as he grapples with the fact that his former mentor was not the man he thought. Amber recounts a few instances that left her feeling unsettled. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail].  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high. And the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right.

Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on. And the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were

never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian, and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight.

You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything that gay. but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning, and if you haven't heard yet, a lot has been happening with Betrial. First, we'll be back with Season 2 of Betrayal starting May 18th, and we even have a sneak peek at the end of this episode. Second, Betrial Season 1 is being turned into a documentary. More details on when and and where it will launch, so stay tuned on the feed for updates.

Hundreds of betrayal listeners have reached out to Betrayoppa.com over the past year to share personal stories about their own betrayals. Others have written about knowing Spencer personally. Some of the hardest letters to read have been from Spencer's former students. It's been surprising that so many months after we launched betrayal, we are still receiving messages from graduates that encountered him during his 20-plus years as a high school teacher. We heard from many women over the last year

who wanted to share their experiences with Spencer, but also heard from male students who were deeply affected, like Paul. Paul, it's so nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you as well. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast.

Of course, it was definitely enlightening to hear, you know, more about what happened. Well, I'm curious, as a former student, You know, you knew this person pretty well. Yeah, I mean, I knew Spencer extremely well. You know, he was like a mentor to me even beyond high school. And, you know, hearing the arrest, first of all, just a lot of disbelief didn't really believe it. You know, is this true?

And then the arrest comes and it's like, okay, you know, I still am like, is it, really? Could this really be true? Like, I just don't fully believe it. And so really he's guilty. And then you come out the podcast and that's, you know, I jumped right on. Like I have to figure out and hear for myself. Like what did he really do? Did he really do these things people are saying? Right. Well, and that's one of the questions that I get. You know, why do you need to know. But you do when you know somebody or you think you know somebody and then they turn out totally different.

Don't you want to find those answers? Especially how well I knew him after high school. I've met up with him past graduation. You know, I helped. helped him with his newer students and went back to the school to kind of help teach him and teach some of the new students and take care of the lab. So I was very close with him and, you know, I considered him a friend of mine. So just hearing it was just such a shock and just really hurtful. I still look at it to this day and try to ask myself, how did I not see any of it? What was your experience of him as a teacher? Yeah, I mean, he was one of my favorite teachers. I spent any free time I had, you know, with him in his room. I worked on the video yearbook forum. I was on.

on the morning show, supporting that as well. A lot of extra time outside of the normal school day was spent in that lab, working with him on different videos and that yearbook. So I was extremely close to him during the school year and had nothing but great things to say about him. What made him a good mentor to you? My original goal out of high school, I was going into video production. And he was really helping me understand what's the real world's like,

where I can go look for jobs, how I can get into that field, and just being an astounding board for, hey, you know, here's what I'm thinking about, which way should I go, and just helping give me that drive and motivation. Because I really, you know, at the end of high school, I really didn't know where I wanted to go in life. And he really kind of framed that for me. He portrayed a family man, happy marriage.

He had great kids, you know, things that I looked for and I wanted myself. So, you know, I kind of attached to that. Did he always feel like a friend or did that come later? I would say, you know, after graduations, when I really felt like that closer friendship, you know, started the bond because it was no longer a student-teacher relationship. It was, you know, two men, you know, working together, bettering each other, you know, going to see his band play and, you know, so on and so forth. Did you ever come to the wine bar? I did. I was at the wine cart when you were just a cart. and then, you know, the line bar

and really enjoying seeing that success of a dream come to life. So when you were listening to the podcast, was it hard for you? It was definitely difficult. You know, I would be lying if I didn't say there were some tears just listening that he really did these things and that, you know, these women were coming out about it. The one episode where I hear his voice, you know,

I was just like, I really just want to call him and just say, why? Like, why are you that kind of person? You know, I had trust in you. I looked up to you and you really, you know, did these things that I just unimaginable. You know, and I put myself in the shoes because I have a five-year-old daughter. Oh, wow. I can't imagine what these, you know, these students have gone through, let alone these other females that he's interacted with. And who knows how many were else they're out there.

I mean, it really had home with me, too, being a father and, and how. having a daughter. I'm sitting here and I'm just really sorry that you had to go through that. You know, teachers are supposed to be our mentors. So I'm really sorry that that happened to you as well. I'm more sorry that it happened to you. I mean, I remember when he got married to you. Really? You know, I was in his life then and he seemed so happy. And if I had ever known he was going to do something like, I wish I could have saved you from going through all of this. I don't know how you're doing it. You're extremely brave and just an amazing person to look up to

to be able to go through this and unravel all of this lies and then talk to people about it. You know, that's the biggest reason I wanted to be a part of this is I want other females out there that may be dealing with something that isn't right to know that there's people here to help you and they come out and step forward and, you know, make a voice for yourself. Don't be scared and don't be bullied and to keep in quiet, you know. And that's really, that's where it comes through my heart.

Like, we need more people to speak up and talk about these experiences and make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else as best we can. That's right. I mean, that's the whole point. If you were to run into him on the street, would you say anything to him or would you keep walking? That's a funny question. I think if I was by myself and I saw him, I would definitely want to confront him and just stop him and just say, why? I think that's the last piece of closure I don't have is just talking directly to him. I'm not going to get an answer I want.

Right. But for some reason in my mind, I just want to be able to just unload my feelings and make him understand. understand how I feel. Now, if I was with my family, I would probably have to look the other way. I don't want my five-year-old daughter anywhere in the vicinity. Yeah, you know, that last episode where I was able to speak with him the last time, it was just kind of brief because I thought I wanted to talk to him. I thought I wanted these answers. Mm-hmm. But then I realized that he's not capable. No. And you can hear it in his voice.

He truly doesn't think he's done something wrong at this point. He really believes his lies. He won't understand anything I say. I won't get the closure I truly want, but I will get enough closure of just getting words out and walking away from him and never sing again, but at least get those last words because it still bothers me. Thank you so much, Paul.

I really appreciate your time. and being willing to speak to me and Jen. I'm an open book with this at this point because I just, I want to help any other victims that could be out there for anything, you know, anyone that's going to see something like this. I hope they listen and I definitely hope this helps them feel comfortable coming forward.

New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt and I'm Joel. We are from the how to money. podcast and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike DeLaurocha and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Amber, another graduate of Kelle High School, listened to Betrayal, and wrote in to share her experiences with Spencer. So Amber, tell me, when did you graduate, Cal? 2012 in May. And did you have Spencer as a teacher? I did.

I believe I had three classes with him, one sophomore, junior and senior year, but not my freshman. Up until senior year, I didn't have any sort of vibes or wanderings. But when I was approaching graduation, which was in 2012, is when there were a couple incidences that were questionable. He did call me into his closed-door office for some random reason, not anything specific to talk to me about. He wanted to show me something cool on a camera,

and it was a handheld camera with a flip-out screen. So when you're showing that to someone, you're kind of, you know, shoulder to shoulder with them. And he had turned the lights out and closed the door so we could see better. But I just remember when he did that, his body was like touching the other side of my body and, you know, him leaning over and showing this thing with all the lights off. My heart started racing and I was like, whoa, this is pretty close. It's pretty dark.

And I'm not even focusing on what he's showing me. I'm more wondering why, you know, he's feeling so comfortable being this close to me. Someone had interrupted, actually. Someone had tapped his door and kind of pushed it open. It was another student. And I was kind of like, thank you for opening the door. I'm out of here. When it happened, it felt like an outlier.

It was so borderline of it being something passable because what other teacher would have the opportunity to turn the lights off to show someone something like that. Video production had that sort of pass, you know, it was very borderline. Well, and part of that is because of who he was. You know, he was this beloved teacher. So those borderline things were kind of blown off, I think, because it was like, oh, no way it could be Coach Heron.

He would never, I feel like. People just trusted him, you know. Exactly. I think also when you have someone who's trustworthy who can kind of bend the rules and be cool, you don't want to ruin that. Obviously, that would be him ruining it himself, but you almost just don't want to believe that he would do that because it's, you know, it was such a special class and it didn't deserve to be tainted and abused by his authority. I'm really sorry you had that experience in his office. Was there anything else that you experienced that made you say this feels off? There were three other times.

Two, while I was in school, one of the times, senior year, during graduation, I had just gone a new camera, like handheld digital camera. And of course, I was running around taking pictures with students and teachers. and I had someone take a picture of him and I, and he put his hand around my waist and pulled me up to his body, and I'm super sensitive to touch. So when those things happen, I'm very aware of it. And I remember wondering, like, oh, is this how he acts when people graduate and turn 18? like he feels that he can make a touch like that.

That was the last time I had seen him. And then a year later in 2013 in June, he sent me a Facebook message. The first message that he sends me is, I miss Miami, which is this made-up nickname based off of my name with a bunch of exclamation points. He's never called it to me before, and him saying, I miss you, and then using this made-up nickname, I was just really confused,

and again was just like, is this just how he talks to grad students? Like, he just suddenly switches to this, like, flirty person that uses nicknames. And then we were talking a little bit about what I was studying in school, And then again, he just switches back and goes, you know, I just knew how special you were. I always knew just how special you were.

The last message he sent me was, hey, babe, what's up? That's just not something that is appropriate at all. Is there anything that you want to share that's important for people to hear? I feel like the takeaway from this could be that we should. have more of these conversations and students should have more confidants and more people that they feel safe confiding in when it comes to sexual harassment or anything insinuating sexual conduct that is inappropriate in any way. I think that's a really good message. And thank you so much for your time, Amber. I can't thank you enough. And thanks to you guys. Arbitralia.

community. And get ready. We'll be back with season two of betrayal starting May 18th. It's about a new betrayal that rarely ever is spoken about, but we'll confront it head on. Here's a sneak peek. My husband and I were opening a business. His first job was that very next day. One of the clients had asked if they could Benmo him. So he'd called me that morning, September 29th, 2021. He was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo. And I was like, all right, username and password for whatever email is connected to your Venmo. So he sent me the login for his iCloud.

And as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He was like, oh, don't worry about it. We'll do it together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry. It's going to be too much. Like, don't do it. I knew by the tenor of his voice that he was trying to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something they didn't want me to know about.

There was nothing in his photos. And then I scrolled down and that's when I saw a hidden folder. And I opened it. You know when you open your photos, it's going to show you like a whole bunch of them at once. I slammed my computer shut. What the hell did I just see? That's season two of betrayal. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to

money if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape. We've got your back. Prices, they're still high and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to how to money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse. Hill's host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken? But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with

psychologist, Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the I-heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything but gay, but he really tried hard not to be.

Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.