Betrayal - The Only One | Jenifer's Story

Episode Date: May 26, 2022

One of the hardest pills to swallow for Jenifer was discovering a friend of hers was involved with her husband. She and her former friend haven’t spoken in years. Anger, shame, and blame created a gulf. In this episode, Jen confronts her former friend to find out how it started and why no one told her about the affair, even when the opportunity presented itself. She walks away with many answers and some questions that will never be answered. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail].  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How to Money. If your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high. And the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you to get intentional and make real progress. That's right.

Yeah, each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on. And the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name.

Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. I'm John Polk. For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married an ex-lesbian, and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story.

John has never been anything that gay. but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast discusses consensual sexual activity. Please take care while listening. One of Spencer's long-term affairs was with a friend of Jennifer's, and she found that especially hurtful. He wrote about it to Jen. To my memory, she was to be able to.

staring at me a lot at the bar. I'm sure I noticed and tried to dismiss it as just my imagination, but it continued. I honestly have no idea how it started. I simply found times when you or her husband were both out of town. When it was over with her, you can't imagine my relief. That problem in my life was over. I was so happy. I'm Andre Gunning.

And this is betrayal. Episode 6, the only one. I don't know much about your relationship with this woman, but she was your friend, right? Yeah, I mean, one of the reasons that I really wanted to talk to her is because she was a friend of mine. She knew us. When Spence and I opened the bar, her and her husband started coming in as, regulars. And so like a lot of people, we became friends with them. When they got out for a night and had a babysitter, they'd go to dinner in town, but come by the bar before or after and spend time with us.

So when I opened Spence's email and started scrolling through his photos, all of a sudden, her picture popped up. And to see somebody you know, provocative. in a photo and knowing that they sent it to your husband. I mean, I was so angry, as you can imagine. I mean, I was with everybody, but I called her that night. And it was probably 11, 1130 at night, and I didn't care. I went back to look through all the correspondence between them. And I realized that they had been seeing each other from like the end of 2014.

through 2016. And in reading all of their correspondence, I could really tell that she got hurt. Like she had fallen for Spence hard. She really believed she was the only one. She really did. She left me a voicemail and she said, I thought I was the only one.

It wasn't easy for any of the women, involved with Spencer to participate in this podcast. Jen's former friend agreed to speak with her on the record who requested that we keep her voice a name private. Although this conversation is 100% real, in the interest of protecting her identity, we used a voice actor for her side of the conversation. Can you tell me how the relationship between the two of you started?

It happened so slowly. Finding things that were similarities between us, like I played soccer, you know, he played soccer. I coached, he coached. So early conversations would be, you know, when we run into each other, like, oh, how's the game or how's coaching or, hey, coach, you know, certain things that were not necessarily flirtatious, but getting to know me and my family and, you know, making me feel comfortable with him over time.

And then I guess, you know, knowing that there was an instance where he was. would try to start physical interactions. Was that usually at the wine bar? Yeah. The very first time I went to the bathroom at the end of the night, he asked me if I could help stay there for him to close up, like help carry something out. I went into the bathroom and when I came out,

he was there and mentioned like, you know that we have this thing together, you know, you're feeling this too, right? And then he came in for a kiss, then held my hand and talked his crotch with my hand on the outside of his pants. And what did you do? I mean, I just had wine, you know, so me feeling like it was somebody I trusted over at least

six months to a year. I mean, I had thought he was attractive, not that that's any fault to my significant other, but he was traveling a lot. And when he was home, he fell asleep early. And I was a stay-at-home mom with kids and I was stressed out. And I felt like somebody got me. that moment. So he knew he was taking advantage of that. So how did it progress then? Like how did he, I guess, justify it?

That we were meant to be together. However, in the midst of things, I remember him saying that, you know, his wife can never find out because, you know, he loves his wife and his relationship. So nobody could find out what was going on. he made me feel like I was the only one and special. And I know that sounds weird. Nope. But both being married and in a relationship, I was okay with it. I felt like I didn't necessarily want to have physical contact, you know.

I think guys are more driven towards that. But I guess in a way, I almost felt like I owed him something. And I was never forced or never said no and against me. my will, but all along I knew it was wrong. But then I would always hear, you know, like, you're so beautiful, you're really, really well-rounded, you're a great mom. But I was strung out, stressed out, didn't feel pretty all the time because, you know, I had kids hanging off me, breastfeeding. I was greasy, maybe showered every couple days, maybe washed up with baby wipes. And him coming in and making like those compliments and stuff, of course it made me feel good.

Yeah. And I remember one day after the wine bar, we went to the restaurant back in the back. And I remember questioning him, like, how many people do you do this with? And he's like, what? And I was like, how many people have you had relationships with outside of your marriage? And he's like, are you kidding me? None, no others, no one. In my gut, I knew that this was happening all over because I could see the way that he would look at people in public situations.

If I was off in the distance or he was exchanging money with somebody, his hand would linger on hers a little bit longer. It was a challenge. It was a game. So this happened over a couple of years. At the peak of it, what was it like? Like, we weren't in contact all the time. I mean, it was mostly like texts or emails and the times that we met up were few and far between than what you probably think. because I wasn't about all that. And then there were times where he would, you know, say, we'll just role play.

And I felt okay doing that because I'm like, I'd rather talk about it than meet up and do something that I know is horrible. Did you also feel that sense to, like, please him? I did because at some point, I did kind of feel like, well, now I'm in too deep. If I try to stop this, is he going to, like, go tell somebody, you know, but it wasn't. It wasn't like I was ever forced. Looking back, that's what's embarrassing. I consented to that stuff with him merely taking that time to build that relationship.

You don't want to live your life having a shield up against somebody who's going to pay you a compliment or somebody who's going to get to know you and be a good person. But that's truly how it happened. Very nonchalant over time gaining that trust. And I think people that have that sickness that addiction, they know that that's what works.

It's grooming. It's grooming. It is grooming. And they don't mind taking the time to build that trust. And at what point did you realize it was grooming? You know, going through all this, I was going to church and believing in God. Was I as strong with my relationship with God at that time? No, I wasn't.

I felt bad going to church. I felt bad taking the communion, but I felt at one point, like I was just in too far with things, and it just hit me. Like, I realized what was going on, and I just said, I can't. You know, I can't do this anymore. And it was at that point when I really realized that I'm not the only other one that's being flirted with. And that's when I kind of said, like, what's going on? There were plenty of times when I wanted to come to you, but I didn't think you'd believe me

because he was so good at charming and talking his way around things. You probably would have went to him and he would have denied it and he's your husband. If you don't know for sure, you know, there wasn't any evidence. But there was evidence. Not earlier on when it was just kind of the grooming process. Right. I wish that I could have noticed it at that point. I wish I had the strength to be that person that would have just seen everything bright and clear

and could have given you a head of. up because surely things wouldn't have happened with other people, you know? And I think that's why it's important for other people to hear this, because you can honestly say I might have stepped into something and made that mistake and fallen for it, but like, look, these are the signs. And then especially when I found out what happened with somebody underage, do you think I kicked myself? The way I was talked to, to feel good about myself and to trust him, surely that happened to that same girl. I bet you any money it was the same steps. Just continuously building a relationship with somebody

and making them feel good about themselves, but also making them feel like they're not doing anything bad. I had remembered saying like, I can't do this. This is wrong. Well, no, no, it's not wrong. You just can't help when two people just click like we do. Those were the kind of comments that I would get. Really?

Oh my gosh, yeah. But then at the same time, I didn't want anyone finding out about this and didn't want his marriage to be ruined. I think that was his cover. His cover was being married. People didn't expect him to do these things, and he used that. New Year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt, and I'm Joel. We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter,

save more and make sense of what's going on out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to How to Money on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyalkiwali. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health.

Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early. Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health, and how the world around us affects our overall health.

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What if this year is about giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding? and knowing that it's okay to ask for help. I'm Mike Delarocha, host of Sacred Lessons. This is a podcast for men navigating stress, emotional health, fatherhood, identity, and the unspoken pressures were taught to carry alone. We talk honestly about mental health, about healing generational wounds, and about learning how to show up with more presence and care. If you want a healthier relationship with yourself and the people you love,

then Sacred Lessons is the podcast for you. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Dolorotcha on America's number one podcast network, IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike Delocha and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. So you knew me. You must have asked him about me. Like, were you guys going to go off together? Absolutely not. And I asked him that.

At one point I said, what do you want from this? He would say that he was happy and nothing was wrong with his relationship. And he would just bring it back on like, you can't help kind of like a fate situation of two people being really good for each other. And then he would say like, you know, there's no commitment or whatever. And then at one point, I remember him saying something about meeting up and I said no. and he texted me a picture of his dick, right out there, not even expecting it, right out there on my phone. So when he was wanting to meet up and I knew things were wrong, I felt like, well, if I could give him anything that would make him happy and I wouldn't have to do physical, you know, like meet in person and do that kind of stuff, then I will. So if I was drinking wine one night and, you know, binge watching shows or something, and he texted me and at one point then requested me to send him a picture, I felt like that was better than actually getting together with him.

Right. And then I remember saying to him the next day, like, you need to delete that. Will you promise me? You delete that now. Are you surprised to know that he kept everything? I mean, he told me like, of course, of course, you know, but then in the back of my mind, I had a feeling, especially towards the end, that he did not delete that kind of stuff. Really aggravates me.

That was personal and important things. Yes, that I made the wrong decision to do, but in me asking him, he should have deleted those. Like, I feel like that is not right at all. Well, wait, let me ask you this. I just want to go back. Did you guys sleep together? Yes. Where?

In the bathroom at the bar. And then there was another time when I was out on my own with friends and he was kind of pestering me for me to pick him up and that was another place. His car? Yes. Did you ever come to my house? I came to your house once. He invited a woman into. my house. He did. And I bet I wasn't the only one. And so you just came into my house? He took my hands and he

took me upstairs. He had things set up in the upper bedroom with like candles and shit. That was the point where I, I couldn't. And I told him no. So I ended up staying downstairs and we got into an argument. And that was one of the times toward the end that I felt like I just couldn't do this because of the regret that I had for what I was doing to you and my family. Well, what did you think you were there for? I don't know. He talked me into going. I was just like, yeah, I'll come over quick, whatever, you know? I said, like, I don't feel like going in your house. And I'm like, is somebody else home? He said that you were traveling or something. And that's when I was like, I can't.

And along the way, I think it was things like that. Situations he was putting me into where I knew that it was going past the point of no return, but I wasn't going any farther. And then finally, I just took a look back and really started praying about it. And at that point, it was almost like a dream. Like, I can't believe what I did, what had happened. It was like, what's done is done. I ended up telling my husband on my own without him even finding anything out because it was just eating at me.

So what happened after you told your husband? It was one night and the kids were in bed and I ended up telling him at the table. I'm like, I have something to tell you. I'm like, I did something really horrible. He's like, did you have sex? And I said, yes. And that was the utmost, hardest thing I ever had to do. And he was very distraught, very distraught.

And it was really hard for a long time, you know? Our relationship is great now. And looking back, I think it was that moment when I got a text from somebody with the article that came out about him going to jail for underage sex and stuff like that. And I had no doubt, no doubt. I felt a flood of emotion. Is that something I could have prevented, you know? Mm-hmm. But that's the moment in our relationship that we could actually look at this.

in a different life other than me just being a person that goes and does this. I thought I was just a horrible person and this is something that I sought out and knowing that it's not, I was blindly taken advantage of in a lot of different ways. Did us being friends ever give you pause or factor into it? I know we were associated with you guys and we were friends, but like there wasn't too much entanglement in our lives. It wasn't like we were going out every weekend and we were doing things. together, and part of me looks back and wishes that would have happened because I think I would have been stronger to resist, you know, those passes by him.

What happened when your husband confronted Spence about this? Just yelling and screaming, and he didn't want me to hear him, but I was trying to listen through the vent in the first floor to listen to him, like, in the basement. He was livid. He was yelling, spitting. I mean, he wanted to rip him apart. Still, to this day does. Cannot ever, ever forgive. Even though he's a God-loving person, can't ever, ever forgive what had happened. But at that point, like, why didn't anybody come to me? I guess I just knew that was like your fairy kale and stuff. And I guess at that point, I just wanted to just hide everything. But then after that, you guys still kind of communicate it with that suspense kind of making that

gesture? Oh, absolutely. I mean, now that it was out to my husband, I would have never. I had to salvage everything that I could. I mean, I wanted to meet up to, like, talk to him about why and how many other people and could he come clean with me because I knew he was lying. And then I also wanted to tell him, like, you need to tell your wife or else I'm going to. And he avoided, he always made an excuse not to get together. The first voicemail that you left me, you said something that stuck with me and that was he made you feel special.

I'm like, you were the only one. He made me feel that way, but lied to my face, yeah. I felt like I knew him and trusted him. Looking back, it was so stupid. It was so stupid. I cannot believe I let somebody so far into my mind mentally. And I think it was also the situation. that I was in, you know, with my husband working a lot.

And again, not his fault at all. Like, I should have known better. As a void of other things, I guess, kind of in my life, he came in and he knew. Those were things I would tell him. And he knew that he could be right in there. But my thing that boggled my mind was like, if I was his only person, why would he always say, like, well, my wife can never find out or, like, I like things how I have them?

well yeah you do because that's your front and it enables you to do this stuff enables you to go out and like encroach on other women knowing that you're married like nothing would ever happen well i mean you were right on there were more women that's for sure you know i hate what happened all around and i feel like you're super strong obviously way better than he is, and I'm glad you found this out in the way that you did. I'm glad you found it out so you can live a really awesome life moving forward. That's right. I mean, if one out of all the women I found had spoken up, you know, thank God for the victim, the student who had the courage. She even waited until later to come out, right? Like, you're scared. First of all,

You don't want to admit that you did something horribly wrong. Of course. You don't want to admit that you are taking advantage of. Right. You know, it's embarrassing, but people can't be afraid to be embarrassed. You have to talk to somebody. New Year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever. I am Matt, and I'm Joel.

We are from the How to Money podcast, and every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense of what's going on. out there. If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to money on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Dr. Priyankowali. And I'm Hurricane de Bolu. It's a new year. And on the podcast's health stuff, we're resetting the way we talk about our health. Which means being honest about what we know, what we don't know, and how messy it can all be. I like to sleep in late and sleep early.

Is there a chronotype for that or am I just depressed? We talk to experts who share real experiences and insight. You just really need to find where it is that you can have an impact in your own life and just start doing that. We break down the topics you want to know more about. Sleep, stress, mental health and how the world around us affects our overall health. We talk about all the ways to keep your body in mind, inside and out, healthy. We human beings, all we want is connection. We just want to connect with each other.

Health stuff is about learning, laughing, and feeling a little less alone. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. A new year doesn't mean erasing who you were. It means honoring what you've survived and choosing how you want to grow. It means giving ourselves permission to feel what we've been holding and knowing that it's okay to ask for help. I'm Mike Dolorotia, host of Sacred Lessons. This podcast is a space for men to talk openly about mental health, grief, relationships,

and the patterns we inherit, but don't have to repeat. Here, we slow down. We listen. We learn how vulnerability becomes strength and how healing happens in community, not in isolation. If you're ready to let go of what no longer serves you and step into the year with clarity, compassion, and purpose, sacred lessons is your companion on your healing. healing journey. Listen to Sacred Lessons with Mike Delo Rocha on America's number one podcast network,

IHeart. Follow Sacred Lessons with Mike Delocha and start listening on the free IHeart Radio app today. Are you surprised to hear that I found more women? No, not at all. Absolutely not. That's why when I came out and saw there's comments about an underage girl and stuff like that and people being on his side, that pissed me off. Because I sometimes wondered if he did that.

You know, I was like, all these girls probably think he's real cute at school and stuff, like in the back of my mind, I was like, hopefully he wouldn't do something like that. And then like that comes out, I felt horrible. I felt mixed emotions. I felt bad for the girl. I felt pissed off at him. I felt Sorry for you. I couldn't believe it actually came out and happened, but I was happy it happened because that got him. If not, to this day, he could still be doing that crap. But knowing that he kept all those things,

that's somebody with a major issue, major, horrible, disgusting issue. He had you, he had his kids, he had everything right in front of him. And whatever it was, whatever was wrong with him, mentally fucked up or whatever, that is somebody with an issue. So all along I felt like it was me and that I was horrible and I did this.

I did this thing and made this horrible mistake. But now I do realize that it is a victim type situation. I'm sorry for what happened overall. For me, you would think I would know better, but exactly what happened to the underage girl is what happened to the other women. And you know what? There's probably so many women that don't have remorse for what they did or what they took part in, but I can tell you that I do.

And I know you do, and I really want you to get past this. I mean, I don't think about it every day now, but of course, since you and I have come into contact with each other over the past couple months here, of course I've had like full on anxiety attacks. And I've had to, like, pop out at a van and really try to get my head straight around everything. But it makes me feel good for you saying that to me. I can never be sorry enough to you. It was never, ever pointed at you. I knew you were in this situation, but I can't even tell you how he made it feel like there wasn't anything else.

Any barriers there? And that was part of whatever he does and whatever those types of people do. Well, and I guess I was looking for like, what was that secret ingredient? And how did he get away with it? How was he able to manage so much going on at the same time? I have no idea. You teach, you coach, you have a wife that you do things with. You guys had a business.

How do you do all these things? But then I would hear him say, like, I'm going to go away on my army weekend or whatever. And I knew. I was like, okay, how many states does he have people in that he's counting on? My biggest regret going back, I mean, of course I would say for all this not to happen, but my biggest regret is not saying something right away. And I'll always regret that. I can't ever not feel like that. But, I mean, definitely helps me. I don't know if I've helped you at all. Yes, you did. You really did.

Thank you. But that's also why I'm sharing my story. It's one of those things that's like, no, no, no. That could never happen to somebody I know. And it's like, wait, what? How do you navigate this? It's crazy. I have a question, like, was your husband always on his phone?

No. I swear to God, no. I think about that all the time. Was he sitting in bed, like texting all night? all night and things like that, no. I think a lot of it happened during the day. We'll never understand why she was able to tell her husband, but telling you was different.

Maybe she felt like that was Spencer's responsibility. I think I do hold her somewhat responsible for not telling me because she could have. And you would hope that the relationship and connection you felt with someone would make them second guess their decision. Yes, that's another thing. It's different for some reason the women who didn't know me that chose to do this. But for a woman who knew me and saw me a couple times a week, I just can't even imagine doing that to somebody.

Is it hard to know that people were just like walking around knowing your life and your marriage and your house old was something fundamentally different than. what you knew it to be. Yeah. And that's what it's so hard to wrap your head around when your reality of the life you're leading is one way. And then to think that it's really not that. And there were people who knew it. You know, I think there were people that did know me, maybe not well, but certainly knew

he had a wife. I read so many correspondence with him and women. and him inviting them to the bar or saying it was so good to see you at the bar last night or come see me at the bar tonight. So clearly this was a place that I'm finding out now where he used to get relationships. I walked away feeling like this is a person that was really hurt and really into your ex-husband because I'm trying to put myself in someone's shoes. And unless I'm interested, I'm not noticing the hands from a customer on his hand. I'm not noticing the subtle looks. I mean, she was paying attention to him on a very deep level.

She was watching him. That just makes me feel like, you know, she was really roped in. I really think in her mind she had invested some of herself into this relationship. I'm just curious if you're like letting go of that anger that you have towards her. I do have a little more anger toward her because she was a friend. And she was doing this right under my nose with my husband. I also appreciate though that she was willing to get on the phone and talk to me about it. So I can let this go because honestly, I want her life to be okay.

I hope that the conversation maybe gave her some closure as well. And hopefully by letting her know that he was like this with other people, it helps her a little bit to understand, you know, that this is a pretty sick person. Right. She's not the only person that fell for it. Yeah. At the end of the day, it was Spence that hurt me.

But that part of being mad at the women, I just don't carry that. His behavior was so out of control that it could have been anybody. On the next episode of betrayal. I had never, ever looked at her in any inappropriate way. Not at all. In fact, probably for the last 10 to 15 years, I have not looked at any teen girl as anything but that, a teen girl.

I'd gotten older. There were no fantasies. If you'd like to reach out to the betrayal team, email us at Betrayal. POT at gmail.com. That's Betrayal POD at gmail.com. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with IHeart Podcasts.

The show was executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin, hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Carrie Hartman, also produced by Ben Federman. Our I-Heart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreinschick. Special thanks to voice actors Todd Gans and Rocky Alt. sound editing and mixing done by Matt DeVecchio. The Trails theme is composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Mind Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart,

visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Joel and Matt from How To Money, if your New Year's resolution is to finally get your finances in shape, we've got your back. Prices, they're still high, and the economy is all over the place. But 2026 is the year for you,

to get intentional and make real progress. That's right. Each week we break down what's happening with your money, the most important issues to focus on, and the small moves that make a big difference. Kick off the year with confidence. Listen to How to Money on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is Dr. Jesse Mills, host of the Mailroom podcast. Each January, men promise to get stronger, work harder, and fix what's broken. But what if the real work isn't physical at all? I sat down with psychologist Dr. Steve Poulter to unpack shame, anxiety, and the emotional pain men were never taught how to name. Part of the way through the Valley of Despair is realizing this has happened, and you have to make a choice whether you're going to stay in it or move forward. Our two-part conversation is available now. Listen to the mailroom on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. I'm John Polk.

For years, I was the poster boy of the conversion therapy movement, the ex-gay who married ex-lesbian and traveled the world telling my story of how I changed my sexuality from gay to straight. You might have heard my story, but you've never heard the real story. John has never been anything but gay, but he really tried hard not to be. Listen to Atonement, the John Polk story on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Thank you.