Better Offline - The Case Against Generative AI (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 1, 2025

In part two of this week’s four-part case against generative AI, Ed Zitron walks you through how NVIDIA funds and pumps money into unprofitable, debt-ridden “neoclouds” all to create... vehicles to buy more GPUs - all to cover up the lack of demand for generative AI compute. Latest Premium Newsletter: OpenAI Needs A Trillion Dollars In The Next Four Years: https://www.wheresyoured.at/openai-onetrillion/ YOU CAN NOW BUY BETTER OFFLINE MERCH! Go to https://cottonbureau.com/people/better-offline and use code FREE99 for free shipping on orders of $99 or more. --- LINKS: https://www.tinyurl.com/betterofflinelinks Newsletter: https://www.wheresyoured.at/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetterOffline/  Discord: chat.wheresyoured.at Ed's Socials: https://twitter.com/edzitron https://www.instagram.com/edzitronSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting. Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than adds supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.
Starting point is 00:00:15 Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844-I-Hart. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest,
Starting point is 00:00:32 SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Starting point is 00:00:48 or wherever you get your podcasts. Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them
Starting point is 00:01:03 and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:01:17 Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast Just Healed with Dr. Jay and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive. It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Healed with Dr. Jay on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
Starting point is 00:01:54 Also Media Hello, I'm Ed Zittron and this of course is Better Offline. Welcome to the second part of our four-part series where I give you my most comprehensive, most up-to-day explanation of why we're in a bubble and what that even means. The reason why I'm taking my time to be descriptive and comprehensive is because I want this to make sense to those who listen to it. Having written hundreds of thousands of words this year about the AI bubble, so many of the arguments I've made and the secrets I've exposed are contained in their own dissonance. discreet little episodes or newsletters. This is my series to consolidate all of the information I put out there in one place. And I want to make it makes sense to anyone who listens to him. I want anyone,
Starting point is 00:02:46 even someone who doesn't even know that much about AI, to listen to the arguments I've been making for the past three years, to understand why things are dire and to feel the same alarm I'm feeling, or at least understand why I'm alarmed, because I don't like to tell you how you feel. Old school bit of feedback I got from a listener once, and I appreciate that to this day. Now today I'll make the case that generative AI's fundamental growth story is flawed and explain why we're in the midst of an egregious bubble. This industry is sold by keeping things vague and knowing that most people don't dig much deeper than a headline, a problem I simply do not have. This industry is effectively in service of two companies, Open AI and Nvidia, who pump headlines out through endless contracts between them or subsidiaries or investments to give the illusion of activity. Open AI has now promised over $400 billion in the next four years, though honestly, they might owe about a trillion dollars with all the data centers they signed up for.
Starting point is 00:03:38 All of these are egregious sums for a company that have already forecasted billions in losses, with no clear explanation as to how it will afford any of this beyond we need more money, and the vague hope that there's another soft bank or Microsoft waiting in the wings to swoop in and save the day. Now, I'm going to walk you through where I see this industry today and why I see no future for it beyond a horrible, fiery car. R-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-Reg. While everybody reasonably harps on about hallucinations, which to remind you is when a model authoritatively states something that isn't true, the truth of why that's bad is far more complex and actually far worse than it seems. You cannot rely on a large language model to do what you want. Even though it's highly tuned models on the most expensive and intricate platforms can't actually be relied upon to do exactly what you want. And I know some people might say, well, yes, they do. Every time, 100% of the time.
Starting point is 00:04:28 A hallucination isn't just when these models say something that isn't true. It's when they decide to do something wrong because it seems the most likely thing to do, or when a coding model decides to go on a wild goose chase, failing the user and burning a ton of money in the process. The advent of reasoning models, those engineered to think through problems in a way reminiscent of a human, but it's not thinking they don't think they have no consciousness. They literally, you ask them something and they break down what the prompt might mean and then choose, it's not thinking.
Starting point is 00:04:56 and the expansion of what people are trying to use LLMs for demands that the definition of an AI hallucination be widened, not merely referring to factual errors, but fundamental errors in understanding the user's request or intent, or what constitutes a task, in part because these models, as I said, cannot think and do not know anything. However successful a model might be in generating something good once, it will also often generate something bad, or it'll generate the right thing, but in an inefficient and over-vobo's fashion. You do not know what you're going to get each time, and hallucinations multiply with the complexity of the thing you're asking for are whether a task contains multiple steps, which is a fatal blow to the idea of agents.
Starting point is 00:05:35 You can add as many levels of intrigue and reasoning as you want, but large language models cannot be trusted to do something correctly, or even consistently, let alone every time. Model companies have successfully convinced everybody that the issue is that users are prompting the models wrong, and that the people need to be trained to use AI, but what they're doing is training people to explain away the inconsistencies of large language models and to assume individual responsibility for what is an innate flaw in how these
Starting point is 00:06:02 fucking things work. Large language bottles are also uniquely expensive. Many mistakenly try and claim that this is like the dot-com boom or Uber, but the basic unique economics of generative AI are insane. Providers must purchase tens or hundreds of thousands of GPUs, each costing 50,000 to 70,000 apiece, and the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars of infrastructure that goes around them are so expensive and hard to install, and that's without mentioning things like staffing or construction or power or water, or even permitting. Then you turn them on and immediately they start losing you money. Despite hundreds of billions of GPUs sold, nobody seems to actually make any of it, other than Nvidia, of course, the company that makes them, and resellers like Dell and Supermicro,
Starting point is 00:06:45 who buy the GPUs, put them in servers and sell them to other people. Now, if you're an eager listener, I would love to hear from you on one question, and this is just something that's been bouncing around my head. Supermicro. Is Nvidia a customer of Supermicro? Supermicro is a huge customer of Nvidia. I read something like 70% of their cost of goods sold is buying GPUs. But I read that Nvidia was a customer of them, but I can't find anything else. Reach out easy at betteroffline.com if you've got any thoughts there. Anyway, but back to those resellers, this arrangement works out great for Jensen Huang, the CEO of and video and terribly for everybody else. Today I'm going to explain the insanity of the situation we find ourselves in and why I continue
Starting point is 00:07:27 to do this work undeterred. The bubble has entered its most pornographic, aggressive, aggressive and destructive stage, where the more obvious it becomes that we're all cooked here in AI land, the more ridiculous the generative AI industry will act, a dark juxtaposition against every new study that says generative AI does not work, or new story about chat GBD's uncanny ability to activate mental illness in people. And we're going to start looking at one company, Nvidia, which now dominates the stock market and has taken extraordinary and dangerous measures to sustain growth that is to any sane person, completely unsustainable and unrealistic on every level. But let's start simple. Invita is a hardware company that sells GPUs, including
Starting point is 00:08:06 consumer GPUs that you'd see in a modern gaming PC. But when you read someone say GPU within the context of AI, they mean enterprise-focused GPUs like the A-100, H-100, H-200, and more modern GPUs like the Blackwell series B200 and GB200, which combines two GPUs with an Nvidia CPU. This is all complex sounding, but I want you to have the groundwork. These GPUs cost anywhere from $50,000 to $70,000 and require tens of thousands of dollars more of infrastructure, networking to cluster these server racks of GPUs together to provide compute and massive cooling systems to deal with the massive amounts of heat they produce, as well as servers themselves that they run on, which typically use top-of-the-line data center
Starting point is 00:08:47 CPUs and contain vast quantities of high-speed memory and storage. While the GPU itself is likely the most expensive single item within an AI server, the other costs, and I'm not even factoring in the actual physical building that the server lives in, or the water or electricity that you use as well, all this crap adds up. I've mentioned Nvidia because it has a virtual monopoly in this space. Generative AI effectively requires Nvidia GPUs, in part because it's the only company really making the kinds of high-powered cards that Generative AI demands, and and because NVIDIA created something called Kuda, CUDA, a collection of software tools that let programmers write software that runs on GPUs,
Starting point is 00:09:25 which were traditionally used primarily for rendering graphics in games. While there are some open-source alternatives as well as alternatives from Intel, with its ARC-GPUs and AMD, NVIDIA's main rival in the consumer space, these aren't nearly as mature or feature-rich. Kuda's been around for 10, 15 years now, and they really knew what they were doing. They also bought a company called Melanox, which did the high-speed networking back in 2019, I think,
Starting point is 00:09:47 for six billion dollars. Anyway, due to the complexities of AI models, one cannot just stand up a few of these GPUs either. You need clusters of thousands, tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands of them for it to be worthwhile, making any investment in GPUs in the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars,
Starting point is 00:10:03 especially considering they require completely different data center architecture to make them run. You've probably read a bunch of stuff about crypto miners turning into AI data center providers. These crypto data centers have to be knocked down and replaced. you can't just put the same GPUs in, isn't going to work. And with the new Blackwell ones,
Starting point is 00:10:21 the brand new ones, and then the Rubins following them, same deal. A common request, like asking a generative AI model to pass through thousands of lines of code and make a change or an addition, may use multiples of these $50,000 GPUs at the same time. And so if you aspire to serve thousands or millions of concurrent users, you need to spend big. Really, really, really big. It's these factors, the vendor lock-in, the ecosystem, and the fact that Generative AI really only works when you're buying GPUs at scale that underpin the rise of Nvidia. But beyond the economic and technical factors, there are human ones too. To understand the AI bubble is to understand why CEOs do the things they do, because an executive job is so vague, they can telegraph the value
Starting point is 00:11:02 of their labor by spending money on initiatives and partnerships and stratagem. AI gave hypers the excuse to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on data centers and buy a bunch of GPUs to go in them because that to the markets looks like they're doing something. By virtue of spending a lot of money in a frighteningly short amount of time, Sachin Adela received multiple glossy profiles, all without having to prove that AI can really do anything, be it a job or make Microsoft money. Nevertheless, AI allowed CEOs to look busy, and once the markets and journalists had agreed on the consensus opinion that AI would be big, all that these executives had to do was buy GPUs and do AI, or plug AI within their own software products, but really it was just jump on the big stupid.
Starting point is 00:11:43 also trained. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's that worst singer in the group?
Starting point is 00:12:14 The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, uh, you only got because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name.
Starting point is 00:12:28 The Harvard Yardt Yard's, they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
Starting point is 00:12:45 Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not. thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Starting point is 00:13:11 Think podcasting can help your business. Think IHeart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Let us show you at iHeartadvertising.com. That's iHeartadvertising.com. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On hurdle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness,
Starting point is 00:13:31 professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel. feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it.
Starting point is 00:13:54 An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ladecki. The ability to show gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports.
Starting point is 00:14:30 There are times when the mind becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, we're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting, I was having panic attacks, I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship.
Starting point is 00:15:01 To be present is a learned skill and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading exercise. leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change. This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:15:43 We are in the midst of one of the darkest forms of software in history, described by many is unwanted guest invading their products, their social media feeds, their bosses empty minds and resting in the hands of monsters. Every story of AI's success feels bereft of any real triumph, with every literal description of its abilities involving multiple caveats about the mistakes it makes or the incredible costs of running it. Generative AI really exists for two reasons, to cost money and to make executives look busy. It was meant to be the new enterprise software and the new iPhone and the new Netflix all at once, a panacea where the software guy pay one hardware guy for GPUs to unlock the incredible value creation of the future.
Starting point is 00:16:27 In many ways, generative AI was always set up to fail, because it was meant to be everything, was talked about like it was everything. It's still sold like it's everything, yet for all the fucking hype, it comes down to two companies, OpenAI and Invidia. And Invidia was, for a while, living high on the hog. All CEO Jensen Huang had to do every three months would say, check out these numbers, and the markets and business journalists would squeer with glee, even as he said stuff like, the more you buy, the more you save, in part tipping his head to the very real and sensible idea of accelerated computing, but frame within the context of the cash inferno that's generated AI. And it all seems kind of fucking ludicrous.
Starting point is 00:17:05 Huang's showmanship worked really well for Nvidia for a while, because for a while, the growth was easy. Everybody was buying GPUs. Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and to a lesser extent, Apple and Tesla made up 42% of Nvidia's revenue, creating, at least for the first four, a degree of shared mania where everybody justified buying tens of billions of dollars of GPUs by saying the other guy's doing it. This is one of the major reasons the AI bubble is happening, because people conflated Nvidia's incredible sales with interest in AI, rather than everybody buying GPUs at once. Don't worry, I'll explain the revenue side a little bit later. We're here for the long haul. Sit down, get comfy, you're going to need to be. Anyway, Nvidia is now facing a big problem.
Starting point is 00:17:45 The only thing that grows forever is cancer. On September 9th 3rd, 2025, the Wall Street Journal said that Nvidia's wow factor was fading, going from beating analyst estimates by nearly 21% in its fiscal year Q2 2024 earnings to scraping by with a pathetic, measly 1.52% beat in its most
Starting point is 00:18:03 recent earnings, something that for any other company would be a good thing, because they made so much money, but framed against the delusional expectations that generative AI has inspired, well, the figure looks nothing short of ominous. I quote the Wall Street Journal. Already, Nvidia's 56% annual
Starting point is 00:18:19 new growth rate in its latest quarter was its slowest in more than two years. If analyst projections hold, growth will slow further in the current quarter. In any other scenario, 56% year-over-year growth would lead to an abundance of Domperignon and Huang signing hundreds of boobs, but this is NVIDIA and that's just not good enough. Back in February 2024, NVIDIA was booking 265% year-over-year growth, but in its February 2025 earnings, NVIDIA only grew by a measly pathetic, disgusting 78% year over year. I'm being sarcastic, of course. It isn't so much that Nvidia isn't growing, but to grow year over year at the rates that people expect is insane. Life was a lot easier. When Nvidia went from $6.05 billion in revenue in Q4 fiscal year 2025 to $22 billion in
Starting point is 00:19:07 Q4 fiscal year 2024. But for it to grow even 55% year over year from Q2FY 2026, I'm just going to truncate that now, which was $46.7 billion to Q2, 2027, that would require them to make $72.385 billion in revenue in the space of three months, mostly from selling GPUs, which make up about 88% of its revenue. Just want to be clear there. In a year, they would have to make $72 billion, just selling pretty much GPUs and the associated hardware in the space of three months. It's insane. This is really, it's too much. It's too much to expect. And this, by the way, would put Nvidia in the ballpark of Microsoft, who made $76 billion in their last quarterly earnings,
Starting point is 00:19:50 and within the neighborhood of Apple, who made $94 billion in their last quarter of earnings. And they would do this predominantly making money in an industry that a year and a half ago barely made the company $6 billion in a quarter. And the market needs Nvidia to perform. They must, they must, as the company makes up
Starting point is 00:20:06 7 to 8% of the value of the S&P 500. It's not enough for Nvidia to be wildly profitable or to have a monopsony on selling GPUs, or for to have effectively 10x their stock in a few years. No, no, no, more, more, more, always more. Number must go up. It must continue to grow at the fastest rate of anything ever, making more and more money, selling more and more of these GPUs to a small group of companies that immediately start losing money the moment they plug them in.
Starting point is 00:20:34 It's not brilliant, is it? While a few members of Magnificent Seven could be depended on to funnel tens of billions of dollars into a furnace each quarter, there were limits, even for companies like Microsoft, which had bought over 485,000 GPUs in 2024 alone. To take a step back about how people actually make money from buying these GPUs, companies like Microsoft, Google, and Amazon make their money by either selling access to large language models that people incorporate into their products
Starting point is 00:20:59 or by renting out servers full of those GPUs to run inference, the thing to generate the output, or train AI models for companies that develop and market their models themselves, namely Anthropic and Open AI with some smaller competitors that don't really matter. That latter revenue stream, renting out GPUs, is where Jensen Wong found a solution to that horrible eternal growth problem. The Neo Cloud, namely companies like Corweave, Lambda and Nebius. Now these businesses are fairly straightforward. They own or lease data centers that they then fill full of servers that are full of Nvidia GPUs,
Starting point is 00:21:32 which they then rent out on an hourly basis to customers, either on a per GPU basis, or in large batches for large customers who guarantee they'll use a certain amount of compute and sign up for a long-term agreement, for so more than a narrower time, a couple years perhaps, these larger commitments. A neocloud is a specialist cloud compute company that exists only to provide access to GPUs for AI, unlike Amazon Web Services, Microsoft DeZure and Google Cloud, all of which to have healthy businesses selling other kinds of compute, with AI, as I'll get into later, failing to provide much of a return on investment at all.
Starting point is 00:22:05 It's not just the fact that these companies are more specialized than, say, AWS or Azure. As you've gathered from the name, these are new, young, and in almost all cases, incredibly precarious businesses, each with financial circumstances that would make a Greek finance minister blush. That's because setting up a neocloud is expensive. Even if the company in question already has data centers, as Corwe've did with its cryptocurrency mining operation, AI requires, as I said, completely new data center infrastructure to run and cool the GPUs. And those GPUs also need paying for, and then there's the other stuff I mentioned earlier, like power, water, and the other bits of the computer, CPU, motherboard, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Starting point is 00:22:41 As a result, these neoclouds are forced to raise billions of dollars in debt, which they collateralize using the GPUs they already have, along with contracts from customers, which they then use to buy more GPUs. That's right, they buy GPUs from Nvidia. They raise debt on those GPUs, and then they use that debt to buy more GPUs from Nvidia. It's enough to drive a man insane. Corway, for example, has $25 billion in debt on an estimated, 5.35 billion dollars of revenue in 2025, losing hundreds of billions of dollars per quarter. Now, you know who also invests in these neocl clouds? You'll never guess it's Nvidia. Invidia is also one of Corweave's largest customers, accounting for 15% of its revenue in
Starting point is 00:23:23 2024 and just signed a deal to buy $6.3 billion of any capacity that Corweave can't otherwise sell to someone else through 2032, an extension of a $1.3 billion dollar 2023 deal reported by the information. It was also the anchor investment in Corwee's IPO, about $250 million. NVIDIA is currently doing the same thing with Lambda, another NeoCloud that NVIDA invested in, which also plans to go public next year. InVIDIA is also one of Lambda's largest customers, signing a deal with it this summer to rent $10,000 GPUs for $1.3 billion over four years.
Starting point is 00:23:57 In the UK, Nvidia has also just invested $700 million in N-scale, a former crypto miner that has never built an AI data center, that has, despite having no experience, committed $1 billion and or 100,000 GPUs to an open AI data center in Norway. On Thursday, September 25th, Nscale announced that it closed another funding round with NVIDIA listed as the main backer, although it's unclear how much money it put in. It would be safe to assume it's probably at least $100 million. Invideo also invested in Nebius, an outgrowth of Russian conglomerate Yandex. And Nebius provides, through their partnership with Invidia, tens of thousands of dollars of compute credits the company's Invigia's inception startup program.
Starting point is 00:24:37 Look, Nvidia's plan is simple. Fund these neoclouds, let these neoclouds load themselves up with debt, at which point they buy bunches of GPUs from Nvidia, which can then be used as collateral for loans, along with contracts and customers, allowing the neoclods to buy even more GPUs from Nvidia. It is just that simple. It's infinite money, right?
Starting point is 00:24:56 Just money, me, money now. You fund the company, the company buys from you, you fund them again. They've used the thing they bought to, five more from you, unlimited money, except that is for one's more problem. These companies don't really appear to have that many customers, and they don't appear to be making much money. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.
Starting point is 00:25:30 Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk, to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an A cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group. The worst? Yeah. Me.
Starting point is 00:25:50 Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open.
Starting point is 00:26:05 Since you guys are middle aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smygel and Friends. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ads supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
Starting point is 00:26:33 And as the number one podcaster, IHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think Iheart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-8-4-I-Hart.
Starting point is 00:26:55 Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions, to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin,
Starting point is 00:27:14 and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't belong. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs, Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecki.
Starting point is 00:27:31 The ability to show a gold medal to someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail, in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything.
Starting point is 00:27:49 Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. There are times when the mind
Starting point is 00:28:06 becomes a difficult place to live. This is David Eagleman with the Inner Cosmos podcast, and for Mental Health Awareness Month, We're dedicating a series to understanding the mind when it struggles. I'm joined by doctors, researchers, and those with lived experience. We'll talk with singer-songwriter Jewel about anxiety. I started living in my car, and then my car got stolen. I was shoplifting.
Starting point is 00:28:30 I was having panic attacks. I was agoraphobic. And making it through hardship. To be present is a learned skill, and it's hard to be present. We'll talk with John Nelson about clinical depression and the brain implant that saved his life. What I learned is that procedure made me happy because I'm disease-free. And we'll talk with leading experts like Judd Brewer about anxiety and John Hirschfield about obsessive-compulsive disorder and the science of how the brain can change.
Starting point is 00:29:02 This is a month of deeply personal and honest conversations about what happens when the brain goes off course and what we can do about it. Listen to Inner Cosmos on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As I went into in a recent premium newsletter, Nvidia funds and sustains NeoClouds as a way of funneling revenue to itself, as well as partners like Super Micro and Dell, resellers that take Nvidia GPUs, like I mentioned, and put them in servers to sell pre-built to customers. These two companies made up 39% of Nvidia's revenues last quarter. Yet when you remove hyperscalate revenue, Microsoft and Amazon,
Starting point is 00:29:44 Amazon, Google, OpenAI, and Nvidia from the revenues of these Neo Clouds, there's barely $1 billion in revenue combined across Corweave, Nebius and Lambda. Corwee's $5.35 billion in revenue is predominantly made up with its contracts with Nvidia, Microsoft who are offering that compute to OpenAI, Google, who have hired Corweave to offer compute to OpenAI, and I'm not kidding, and of course OpenAI itself, which has now promised Coreweave $22.4 billion in business over the next five years. this is all a lot of stuff, so I'll make it really simple. There's no real money in offering AI compute, but that isn't Jensen Huang's problem.
Starting point is 00:30:21 So we simply will force Nvidia to hand money to these companies so that they have contracts to point at so they can raise debt to buy more of those GPUs so that Nvidia can give them more contracts, so they can use that to raise more money. It's really bad. All right, it's really bad. When I read this stuff out loud, I feel a little crazy because it's so obviously unsustainable. Neo-clouds are effectively giant private equity vehicles that exist to raise money to buy GPUs from Nvidia, or for hyperscalers to move money around so they don't have to increase their capital expenditures
Starting point is 00:30:52 and can, as Microsoft did earlier in the year, simply walk away from deals they don't like with the masses of data center leases they walk from. Nebius recently signed a $17.4 billion deal with Microsoft, which even included the clause in its 6K filing, an official filing with the government, that Microsoft can terminate the deal in the event the capacity is built by the delivery dates. And by the way, Nebius already used the contract that Microsoft gave them to raise $3 billion
Starting point is 00:31:17 to, I'm not cheating you here, build the data center to actually to actually provide the compute for the contract. They don't have it, yeah. They don't have the, they don't have the fucking compute. They don't have a fucking bill it.
Starting point is 00:31:32 No one built it. They've got the compute, mate. These fucking companies are right. Anyway, anyway, sorry. Sorry, I'll stop spiraling. Let me just break down these numbers. Let's look at CourtWeb first. Microsoft, they're 60% of their revenue in 2024,
Starting point is 00:31:47 and they're providing compute mostly for OpenAI. 15% of their revenue last year was Invidia, and then the rest was meta, and then OpenAI and Google. Lambda, half of their revenue comes from Amazon and Microsoft, and now $1.5 billion of their revenue comes from Nvidia, which, their current revenue, by the way, and that $1.5 billion over four years, so the current revenue is $250 million.
Starting point is 00:32:09 Well, that would make Nvidia the largest customer. I realize I'm just saying numbers here, but for real, with that contract, because Lambda only made $250 million in the first half of this year, and Nvidia is spreading $1.5 billion across four years. Nvidia is the largest customer now. Now, Nebius has got similar revenue to Lambda, but their largest customer is now... It's fucking Microsoft.
Starting point is 00:32:33 They don't have real customers. They just have hyperscalers or Nvidia themselves. And from my analysis, it appears that Corweave, despite expectations to make that $5.35 billion this year, has only around $500 million of non- Magnificent Seven or Open AI revenue in 2025, with Lambda estimated to have maybe a round of $100 million in AI revenue otherwise, and Nebius only around $250 million. And that's being generous. In much simpler terms, the Magnificent Seven is the AI bubble,
Starting point is 00:33:04 and the AI bubble exists to buy more GPUs, because as I'll talk about, There's no real money or growth coming out of this other than the amount that private credit is investing. And this really is quite worrying, by the way. I had a quote here for an analyst that says it's about $50 billion a quarter for the low end for the past three quarters. So why is this bad? All right. I don't know. Let's start simple. $50 billion a quarter of data center funding is going into an industry that has less revenue than free-to-play mobile game, Genshin Impact. That feels pretty bad. Who's going to use these data centers? How are they even going to make money on them? Private equity firms don't typically hold on to assets. They sell them or they take them public. That doesn't seem great to me. Anyway, if AI was truly the next big growth vehicle, neoclouds would be swimming in diverse global revenue streams. Instead, they're heavily centralized around the same few names, one of which, Nvidia directly benefits from their existence, not as a company doing business, but as an entity that can accrue debt and spend money on GPUs. These neoclodels, are entirely dependent on a continual flow of private credit from firms like Goldman Sachs,
Starting point is 00:34:08 who's Beck Nebius, Corweave and Lambda, J.P. Morgan, Lambda, Crusoe, Building Abilene, Texas's Open AI Data Center, and of course Corweave, and Blackstone, Lambda and Corweave, who have, in a very real sense created an entirely debt-based infrastructure to feed billions of dollars directly to Nvidia, all in the name of an AI revolution that's yet to arrive. The fact that the rest of the Neo-Cloud revenue stream is effectively either a hyperscaler or Open AI is also concerning. Hypercalers are at this point the majority of data center capital expenditures and have yet to prove any kind of success from building out this capacity. Outside, of course, Microsoft's investment in Open AI, which has succeeded in generating revenue while burning billions
Starting point is 00:34:47 of dollars of revenue on, well, I mean, it's not really any profit is they, just burning money. It's also insane. When you say this stuff, I've got two more goddamn episodes of this. And when I read these scripts, I'm just like, how is nobody else more freak down? Oh, well, hyperscaler revenue is also capricious, but even if it isn't, why are there no other major customers? Why across all of these companies does there not seem to be one major customer who isn't OpenAI? Well, the answer is quite obvious. Nobody that wants it can afford it, and those that can afford it don't need it. It's also unclear what exactly hyperscalers are doing with this compute, because it sure isn't making money. While Microsoft makes $10 billion in revenue from renting compute to Open AI via their Microsoft as your cloud,
Starting point is 00:35:31 it does so at cost, and was charging OpenAI $1.30 per hour for each A100 AI GPU it rents, a loss of $2.2 an hour per GPU, meaning that it is likely losing money on this compute, especially as semi-analysis as the total cost per hour per GPU around $1.46 with the cost of capital and debt associated for a hyperscaler, though it's unclear that whether that's for an H-100 or an A-100 GPU. In any case, how do these neoclouds pay for their day if the hypers give up or invidia doesn't send the money or more likely private credit begins to notice that there's no real revenue growth outside of circular compute deals with neocloud's largest suppliers, investors and customers.
Starting point is 00:36:14 I don't know why I said plural there because it's just one, Nvidia. And the answer is they don't. In fact, I have serious concerns that they can't even build the capacity necessary to fulfill these deals, but nobody seems to worry or think about them. But really, though, it appears to be taken. Oracle and Cruceau around 2.5 years per gigawatt of compute capacity. How exactly are any of these neoclouds, or indeed Oracle itself, able to expand to capture this revenue? Who knows? But I assume somebody is going to say Open AI. Here's an insane statistic for you, by the way. Open AI will
Starting point is 00:36:46 account for in both its revenue, projected $13 billion and in its own compute cost $10, somewhere in the region of 40 to 50% of all AI revenues in 2025. As a reminder, Open AI is leaked that it will burn $150 billion in the next four years. And based on my estimates, it actually needs to raise, I mean, upwards of $400 billion in the next four years based on its $300 billion deal with Oracle and some recently announced $100 billion compute purchases for backup. And that alone is a very bad sign. Very, very bad indeed, especially with three years and $500 billion or more into this hype cycle, with few signs of life outside of, well, open AI promising people money.
Starting point is 00:37:27 And that's not healthy or sane or normal, and it's certainly not stable. And it's going to get bad real fast. Catch you tomorrow. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Mattersowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Mattersowski.com. You can email me at E-Z at Better Offline.com or visit Better Offline.com to find more podcast links. and of course my newsletter.
Starting point is 00:38:07 I also really recommend you go to chat. Where's your ed. dot at to visit the Discord and go to our slash Better Offline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media,
Starting point is 00:38:21 visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another podcast from some SNL, late-night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends.
Starting point is 00:38:55 me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer, Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Starting point is 00:39:19 Life is full of hurdles. So how do you keep going? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we're talking with the most. inspiring women in sports and wellness from professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions about the challenges that shape them and the mindset that keeps them moving forward. At our level, at this scale, being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do anything.
Starting point is 00:39:41 Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHeart Women's Sports. It's your responsibility to not just seek help, but to identify that you need. need help. This is Mental Health Awareness Month. Tune in to the podcast, Just Healed with Dr. Jay, and take real steps toward healing, growth, and becoming your best self. From understanding your mental health to doing the work, we break down practical tools, real conversations, and the mindset shifts you need to move forward and thrive.
Starting point is 00:40:12 It's time to stop putting your healing on hold and start doing something about it. Listen to Just Heel with Dr. Jay on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On the Ceno Show podcast, each episode invites you into a raw, unfiltered, conversations about recovery, resilience, and redemption. On a recent episode, I sit down with actor, cultural icon Danny Trailer, talk about addiction, transformation, and the power of second chances. The entire season two is now available to bench featuring powerful conversations with the guests like Tiffany Addish, Johnny Knoxville, and more. I'm an alcoholic.
Starting point is 00:40:43 And without this group, I'm going to die. Listen to the Ceno show on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Thank you.

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.