Better Offline - The Department of Justice V Google Ads: Part 4

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

Ed Zitron is joined by Jason Kint, CEO of DCN and Arielle Garcia, Director of Intelligence at CheckMyAds, for the final episode of Better Offline's coverage of the Department of Justice's second antitrust case against Google. The case alleges that "through Serial Acquisitions and Anticompetitive Auction Manipulation, Google Subverted Competition in Internet Advertising Technologies." Here's a great explainer about how this all works from the Better Offline Reddit. For more information, visit https://usvgoogleads.com/, follow Jason at https://x.com/jason_kint & follow Arielle at https://x.com/ArielleSGarcia --- LINKS: https://www.tinyurl.com/betterofflinelinks Newsletter: https://www.wheresyoured.at/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetterOffline/  Discord: chat.wheresyoured.at Ed's Socials: https://twitter.com/edzitron https://www.instagram.com/edzitron https://bsky.app/profile/zitron.bsky.social https://www.threads.net/@edzitronSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It wouldn't be a huge surprise if our team ends up in the quarterfinals or potentially a great run into the semifinals. Listen, Inside American Soccer with Tom Bogart and Tab Ramos on the eye heart, radio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcast. AllZone Media. Hello and welcome to Better Offline. I am as usual, your host, Ed Zittron. Today I'm joined again for the last episode of our DOJV Google Ads series. Ariel Garcia of Check My Ads and of course Jason Kent of DCN.

Thank you so much for coming. What's happened in this week's, this saga? So this week we had the opportunity. to listen to Google's defense. They, I haven't done the tally yet, I intend to, but the vast majority of witnesses they called were people that either have been paid or still are paid by Google. So that includes people like current employees, small businesses that get big grants from Google and their expert witnesses.

The most notable one is Dr. Mark Israel. who is at a consultancy called Compass Lexicon, he was their lead economist. So if you remember, we've talked about how Google is trying to argue that ad tech is just one big two-sided market that connects advertisers and impressions, not even publishers,

publishers don't exist. Okay. So that two-sided market argument comes from, Mark Israel's work, or it was his expert report that really defined that argument. And for the listeners' sake, what is this man? Like, what does he do for a living? Yeah. So that's what the DOJ wanted to know.

So apparently, he makes 80% of his money and spends 85% of his time being an expert witness. So literally getting paid to say what people. want him to say. Cool. So is that like a job that anyone could do? Just, just wondering. But in all seriousness, looking up this, this wonderful man's, he has a PhD in economics from Stanford, MSC in economics from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, so Big Ten Boy, a BA in economics from Illinois, Wesleyan University. This man's job is just having a job. It's just like existing and saying stuff that people ask him to, like, come on, man, you can't do this. Well, I mean, you can. And, he does. He, um, I think it's worth noting he was the expert witness for Google at the search

trial too that they just lost and, and he's done like 50 or so different cases. Uh, he's also Albertsons and Kroger, which is playing out in the grocery store space. So yeah, this is his full-time job. Wait, so he's in the Albertsons and Kroger case as well? Yeah. Jesus. So this man's, this man's job is just like kind of being a sock puppet, but like a really well-paid one. Your words, but as somebody sitting there listening to him testify, I guess I would say, and this happens a lot of time, I think, with economists, not to be critical of the whole field. But it wasn't connected to the real world at all. And so it was like, you know, an argument that nobody that understands the actual advertising business would agree with.

Like, yeah, it's one big two-sided market that also competes with Reddit and Facebook and all these other, you know, large. platforms as if they're just directly similar and comparable. And how did his argument do with the judge? I didn't think it did well at all. I mean, as he was spinning the yarn in the beginning, I could see where somebody could be convinced that they didn't really understand the business. But then once the Justice Department did their cross,

it really fell all apart in my mind. I don't know if, Ariel, if you have a different point of view. Yeah, no, I agree with that. You could tell because at one point when he was talking about one of the alleged reasonable substitutes that publishers have, he was basically saying that a publisher that has a website and sells ads on their website can just move those ads to their app. Right. And so the judge asks, like, well, what if the publisher doesn't have an app? And he's like, well, then they would need to build one.

She's like, well, that would cost money, no? And he's like, well, yeah, in that instance, they would need to pay money to build an app. That was the only, and that, like, that was the simplest pushback point. We're not addressing the fact that, like, the amount of people that end up on your website versus the amount of readers that will download an app are not the same. We got to that today when the DOJ called their rebuttal witness. But, yeah, that's the type of flavor that we got. And if the judge was not already skeptical from the direct,

definitely the DOJ absolutely. I literally my immediate commentary was that the DOJ mopped the floor with him. And just to be clear, his argument was if you don't like Google's heavy monopoly, you could build your own app. That's right. Your own ads on it. Yes. Yes. And it gets more wild. Like at one point he was saying that if a publisher's ad server is bad, then advertisers might move money to Facebook. Like, these two things have nothing to do. So if the tool a publisher uses to manage their campaigns is bad, an advertiser might move money to social media.

It was just completely unhinged. This man is meant to be smart. That feels like a dumb guy argument. That doesn't even make technical. Is this just Google's attempt to just kind of obfuscate things and try and muddy the waters? So I think, I think, I'm speculating, but I think what he was trying to drive at is that on some level, a good product on one side has implications for the other side. It's part of this bigger argument that they're trying to make for why Google being on both sides of the market, of their alleged, you know, two-sided market is good, that when they do something good for advertisers, the knock-on of,

effects are good for publishers and vice versa. What the DOJ points out is like, okay, but that means ostensibly it can't always just be about the advertisers, right? And we didn't really have a good answer for that. So we're at the end of this trial, though. There were closing arguments Navambi mentioned before the call. How did the rest of the last week or so go? Was it mostly just Google attempting to muddy more? Like, did they come up with new arguments of any kind? There's nothing. I didn't hear anything really new. And I think really the fireworks were mostly today as the Justice Department brought in one of the publisher witnesses for a rebuttal. It was the only rebuttal witness. And there was a lot of back and forth about whether or not he was going to be able to testify again. But he basically, you know, each of those arguments that Mark Israel, Matthew Wheatland from the Daily Mail, senior executive of Daily Mail. And so each of those arguments, the Israel had made. They kind of cleaned that up. I think the department and made it clear that that wasn't in the real world. That wasn't an issue. But it got to the point then during when the,

when Google was doing its cross where it got really, it's kind of absurd if you were in the room. I feel like the judge even knew it was absurd where they were, you know, if he was cleaning up that it wasn't a real world situation that you could just, you know, shut down your website if things weren't working well with the Google Monopoly and launch an app. And then Google's attorney started to compare the number of clicks it takes to type in a website, like literally down to the H-TPS-C-Colon slash slash versus downloading an app and was actually comparing how much time it takes to do the two different things. And it was just, I couldn't understand how we were getting that literal on the last day in the

last witness. Was the argument that apps are easier to launch than websites? It felt like they were going back to Google's classic argument of, you know, of efficiency and, you know, competitions a click away and, you know, and all these arguments about, yeah, how quickly you can do different things. So it was not working, in my opinion. So I mean, in Google's world where they can just kind of like coerce their users and customers to do whatever they want them to, maybe that, that works.

but it doesn't really matter if it's the same amount of clicks for a consumer, for a user to download an app as it is to go to a website. No one can force them to download the app, right? But yes, I completely agree. It was just ridiculous. It also was like because she decided to go there, every time Wheatland went to talk, she had to cut him off because he was trying to, you could tell. And she being the judge here. No, no, no. every time Wheatland went to talk beyond a yes or no, Google's counsel needed to cut him off

because she probably realized that he was going to say, well, no. Like he kept saying that's one way to get to a website. And obviously, you know, search results would be another one, you know. So it was just a very odd. It really does feel, and I said this last episode, it doesn't feel like Google came in with an argument. I'm astonished because these are meant to, for years we've seen these companies as these kind of mammoth organizations that can do what they want, but in front of a judge, they just seemed kind of pathetic. I think that the facts were just so not on their side that they really struggled. There was not one witness that they called where on cross-examination DOJ didn't manage to surface something that set up.

Google back a little bit or introduced something new that was bad. You know what I mean? They just, they didn't have very much. And so that's why their experts and specifically Mark Israel, because the other experts that Google called, their analysis relied heavily on Israel's report. Right. So it was really hinging on Israel. I expected that there would be something at least somewhat compelling there. And when I saw that there was just absolutely nothing there, I mean, to me, that was the nail in the coffin for their case. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide,

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Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change.

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This is Help from a Hypocrat, the worst advice from the dumbest people you know. Listen to Help from Hypocrat as part of the My Cultura Podcast Network available on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's remarkable. It also kind of suggests that these other antitrust cases, might be similarly chaotic because you would think that... I think what is really stunning me, other than the fact they're just kind of incompetent, is you'd think they'd have planned for this.

Like, Jason, you've been... You covered the search trial. Did they have a better argument there? They did, and, you know, I think their argument there was, you know, that they still had kind of a giant elephant in the room that they were spending, you know, upwards of $25 billion a year for the search slot. And if they were the best product out there and consumers wanted it naturally,

then why did they have to pay all that money? That was the big help in the room. But they at least could make arguments about exclusionary conduct and a few other things that they'll try to make in their appeal. I don't think they're going to win because the appeal goes to the same, is in the same circuit as USB Microsoft, which it relied on. But it was more down to illegal arguments. And they didn't have the same issues with deletion of emails and all that stuff in the same

way that came out in this case. So, yeah, I, you know, one thing, Ed, I've been thinking a lot about is, I mean, as much as, you know, they've got, it feels like, you know, almost every major law firm at their fingertips when they need them and experts and paid experts, et cetera, it's a really complicated chess game when you've got remedies going on in California from your app store loss, and you've got the search case remedies going on in D.C., and all these things are, you know, dividing executive time within the company. And you also are trying to manage your business at the same time. You've got Sundar Pashai going on TV a couple nights ago, you know,

to say that, you know, everything's all good, right? It's a very complicated chess game no matter who you are. And do you think what do you think these cases are kind of splitting their attention? That would be my, I mean, it has to be at some point. And you kind of see that play out in the real world, you know, when you've got, you know, I saw in the search case. I think it was like one of the last days where, you had Kent Walker, the chief legal officer at Google, you know, in the front row and then like literally move up to the lawyer's table, you know, which was kind of unusual to try to whisper to some of the lawyers in real time. So like he's getting involved, right, in the actual arguments at the trial as search case is winding down. And I sense that a little bit today, Ariel. I don't know if you sense this, you're in the courtroom, but like there was shuffling around by various Google and and their law firm's folks.

When you say shuffling around, is he just handing papers to people? Yeah, there was like almost mini huddles happening, you know, a borderline close to disturbing the judge. But you had three or four people leaning back and forth talking to each other and then people running out of the room and stuff. It was it was like they were, you know, dealing. They were trying to escalate and deal with things in real time because things weren't going well. Look at my lawyer dog. I'm losing this trial. So their whole team was there today.

Everyone knew that today was going to be the last day. So Google's entire team was there. And I'll also say, we knew it was a big team between their associates and their comms people and stuff. But I didn't know quite how big it was. They filled like the entire middle section of the courtroom, which is the largest section. I'd say they had three times the amount of people there that DOJ did. And because everyone was there, you could see the full extent of the shuffling. So even someone next to me all the way in the back of the room was having notes scribbled

and people were running back and forth to them handing them notes. So it was very obvious that there was an all-hands-on-deck scramble when DOJ called their rebuttal. witness and the judge decided to allow it to proceed. And what was so scary about this witness? What was it that, like, chilled them? That he had the real world experience to knock down every single one of Mark Israel's wild recommendation. And this was the fellow from the Daily Mail just to be there.

Correct. Correct. Right. So it's like they were just going to go one by one and be like, you know, if an advertiser moves spending to social, does that impact your negotiations with Google? No, you know? Like, they just kind of want one by one. And because the questions, the hypotheticals are so outlandish, Google knew that he was going to seem confused by the very question. Like the premise is so backwards that it would, that his sincere confusion would come across, you know?

So there is one person I want to bring up. So big on tech, Tom Blakely over there, he brought up on Tuesday that there was testimony from a guy called Dr. Paul Milgram. Yes. From Stanford. Now, Blakely seems to think that this was a good day for Google. What do you think? I wasn't there that day.

I was actually up, which is a whole other story. I ran up to New York real quickly for a conference. But I think R.L. you were there. I know who he is, though. and I actually think he probably could have been their best witness, expert witness. He's like an auction guru. But, um, but, Ariel, you'd have to say how you thought it went. It, my read on that wasn't.

Yeah, no, I agree with that. I agree with that. I think by far he was their best witness. And he, uh, it was very clear that the judge found him credible. I would say he's the witness that the judge engaged directly with the, the most, um, on on both sides. What was his art? How did they use him?

To explain the, like, the auction dynamics. Like, they were trying to use him to explain why last look wasn't always beneficial to Google. Why? And that's where Google can see the bids of competing advertisers and beat them by a dollar. Yeah, yeah. Or like a cent. Yeah. So they went through each of those kind of like auction dynamic questions.

but I still think that the DOJ did well on cross at highlighting things that he didn't bring up. I don't want to like get too far into the weeds on it. But yeah, the DOJ did a good job at illuminating the things that he just didn't emphasize, right? They played some games with a timeline of changes they made to their product. And it's not that his testimony necessarily was false, but it's, It was a little bit misleading in the way it presented things if you consider the timelines of the changes that Google implemented. And I think the DOJ did a good job of clearing that up, but I do think that this was Google's

strongest witness. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guide, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. Help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group.

The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name.

The Harvard yard, but they're open. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Humor me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny.

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Call 844-8-4-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-8-4-I-Hart. Jacob Kingston grew up in an isolated polygamous sect. We were God's chosen kingdom on earth. He felt destined for greatness. So when a swaggering Armenian businessman catapults Jacob into an extraordinary world, he doesn't look back. Ferraris and Lamborghinis, private jets.

meeting the president of Turkey. I'm Michelle McPhee, and this is one of the most shocking criminal conspiracies I've ever come across. When Jacob met Levin this went to a billion dollar fraud. But with two kings from entirely different worlds, just how long can their empire survive? The largest tax investigation in American history.

You need to tell me what you know. Is somebody coming after me? Jacob told Levan, you're ruining my life. life. Listen to Kingdom of Fraud on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Life throws hurdles big and small. The question is, how do you conquer them?

On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women in sports and wellness, professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin and rising hockey star, Laila Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you,

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Like, I can do anything. I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Jared Adano. You might know me as that loud guy who yells out, help on the internet.

Help! Somebody! Please! But there's so much more to me than me. I'm an actor. I'm a comedian. and recently I've become quite the helper myself. And on my new podcast, Hope from a Hypocrite,

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Yeah, it seems like, though, having one strong witness is not going to win them this case, if I'm honest. It doesn't sound like it went well. And I mean, maybe this is the right time to ask both of you. What do you think happens? I mean, in terms of the actual opinion, you've heard from me, it didn't go, it didn't go well. Yeah, one expert witness actually gaining into the granular detail of auctions. And that element probably isn't necessary anyway because the monopoly power is clear and the conflict of interest is clear and the tying is clear.

So, you know, depending on on the actual analysis of a paid witness by Google is really a Hail Mary at that point. It's very, I think it's very rare that an expert witness like that can swing the case. So I think it's very much the DOJ's case to lose at this point. I mean, they're going to update their findings of fact, and, you know, they still have the advantage of the judge questioning the credibility of all the Google witnesses from the deletion of the chats, et cetera. so so then we just get to remedies. And since we last talked, we've got the schedule for remedies in search too. So those are going to be happening, you know,

probably shortly after the ad tech remedies. So here we go. And when would those be? That hearing is going to be in April. And Judge Meta said he wants to have his opinion out by the summertime. And so in the ad tech case, the ad tech case closing arguments are November. And I would think that. that means her opinion probably will be out January.

I would doubt it before the holidays. How are you feeling about Ariel? So what do you think might happen? I mean, I agree. I like, especially when I think about like the ad server bonapolization claim, the tying claim, I don't really see a realm in reality that where the DOJ's claims there don't succeed. There's just like there's so much evidence to to prove it and there's so little evidence that Google put forward to even try to refute it. They put all of their eggs in that market definition basket.

And from that perspective, I think, you know, I was debating in my mind earlier and actually with Tom Blakely, if they should have called the rebuttal witness. but I do see the value in what they did because they literally closed their rebuttal by saying, okay, what is the tool that ultimately decides what ad is served? And he says, the ad server. Okay, who's your ad server? Google, right? So I just, I think they ended it perfectly. I don't think that there's a way that the ad server or the tying claims fail.

I'm interested to see what happens with the ad network side of things because I think that the DOJ spent the least amount of time on that, but I also don't think it really changes the remedy very much. What do you think the remedies might be though? Do you think that they break, like, is it even, like, are we going to just see the entire thing shattered? I realize we're all guessing here, by the way. The entire Google thing shattered.

I mean, I think that's where... The ad side of Google. The ad side of Google, I mean, I don't think there's any way that... that if Google loses, I don't see there's any way that's not the remedy because that's what the Justice Department said was the appropriate relief and all the evidence points to, you know, unless you believe it's a two-sided market that is just more efficient that way, then there's no other real defense that doesn't, you know, you can't go anywhere else except for break the ad tech business apart. So. And to take a step back, when you say it's a two-sided market, is that what

are they actually arguing there? Like, what is Google's argument in that way? Is it that, is it just that publishers don't exist? Yeah, it's a little bit of a misnomer to explain it. Yeah, it's a, because I know there is the argument that there's publishers and advertisers are on both sides, and that's actually the DOJ's case. This is a legal term for a two-sided market that, and it relates to the America Express Ohio case. And, and so, yes. Yeah. So, you know, it actually, you know, it stems from the notion of when you run a, I think,

technically a debit card through, like, are you, as the merchant, if I get this right, like as a merchant, if somebody is about to use an American Express card that costs them more money, is the merchant allowed to say, hey, if you use your visa card or whatever other card, then you won't have to pay me as, you know, I won't have to pay as much. and can you steer? And so there's some legal following out from there that leads to an offense. And that argument isn't going to work for Google, though,

because they're... In Google's world, they're basically saying it's a single... Yeah, it's one big thing. Like, one big contraption, right? That just handles more efficiently the entire ad marketplace. So... Yeah, as opposed to what it is, which it sounds like, you paying Google to advertise with Google,

and then Google messing with the auction so that Google wins. Exactly. Effectively. It nailed it. It nailed it. Yeah, exactly. What a bizarre.

I mean, you two have been there. This feels like a very bizarre trial. Just a peculiar one to have watched. Because all these other tech trials, having, and obviously not been in a courtroom myself, haven't read a good amount of transcripts listening, listen to various depositions and stuff. Even going back to, like, the Bill Gates deposition, one where he was asking for, like, the very minute definitions, they always seem very cocky. They always seem like they add a bit of piss and vinegar to them.

This one, they just seemed to be kind of milling about. Oh, no, they were, they're, the arrogance is definitely there. Oh, is there? Yeah, yeah. Like, if you talk to anyone that goes to their secret briefings, they're like, they're so, they appear so confident in their case that they actually start to confuse the people that have been there watching the trial about whether they are seeing what they think they're seeing.

but that's Google's entire strategy, you know what I mean? So they'll project confidence no matter what they put out there. Yeah, cool case. What did you think about, if I can ask a question? There was a moment this morning where when Matthew Wheatlin from Daily Mail was testifying and they were objecting to back and forth to something the Justice Department was asking, but ultimately the judge made a comment about there's clearly a lot of competition in that. market and I think she was my read on it was she was talking generally about something and they

were all talking over each other but like that was the one line where I was like the judge it didn't make any sense in the context of DFP which is really what mattered there and DFP has 91% of the market so like it didn't fit but so I found it quite like you break that down a little bit what do you mean by DFP and what do you mean the publisher at so the publisher ad server which Google has so the place where publishers sell their ads yeah and Google has 90s 91% of the marketplace for that software. So that's one of the three monopolies alleged is the publisher ad server marketplace. And Google has 91% of the market, which most average person on the street, and definitely any lawyer would say is monopoly power at 91%.

And so there was no way. There's no way that the judge was talking about the ad server market. My read is, so it was a chaotic flurry of objections, right? And if we remember how the objections started, it was the DOJ wanted to call Wheatland. Karen Dunn was upset because why is a fact witness being called to rebut an expert? And they argued about it. And then finally, he's allowed to go on. And then they asked him the first question and there's a flurry of objections again.

And then they ask the question about whether Google, whether the ad server market is competitive, and that's where this objection fest happened. So my understanding is the judge knew that everything at issue here was they wanted to use him to rebut Mark Israel. Mark Israel thinks it's all one, two-sided market. And I believe that the judge thought that the question was about that big market when she said that it was, it's clear. that it's competitive because remember just it was like five minutes ago that the judge was saying that market definition is a core issue in this case and it's one that the court is going to need to resolve, you know?

Got it. Got it. Makes sense. Make sense. What a bizarre year this has been for tech in general. I mean, as we wrap up this wonderful series and thank you both for doing this, it does feel like something has changed with how definitely like society, that almost all of these judges are looking at the tech industry.

They're not friends anymore. There's no, it doesn't feel like the government is on tech side anymore. Well, I think that my read is that, you know, the courts are very much just calling balls and strikes. And I, you know, I would applaud this judge. I mean, incredible that she got through everything in three weeks instead of six. She clearly was tracking and followed what happened with Judge Medis case in D.C. she actually referenced today something from a California case where Google had argued the very opposite defense as what they were arguing in court today.

And she said that that was very problematic for Google. And so they'd address it during the final closing argument. So, you know, they're all paying attention to each other and they're calling balls and strikes. And then, yes, the press, you know, the AGs and the Just Department are doing a masterful job of understanding the, you know, the sophistication of these companies. Yeah, it's a fun time to be alive and reporting on this. And you two have done just incredible work. And I want to thank you on behalf of listeners as well. You've both been kicking us and check my ads in particular with USB Google ads, which will be linked at the end of this episode. You've done just a phenomenal job here. And I don't know if this would have been as well covered without you both, actually. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having us. So I'm going to call it there. Ariel, where can people find you? You can find me at check my ads.org.

You can find me at Ariel S. Garcia on Twitter. Jason underscore Kent or digital content next.org, sometimes called DCN. That works for. Thanks. And you can find me by Googling who ruined Google search. That will bring you to an article that I wrote. Thanks to an AI overview. You've been listening to Better Offline. end of our coverage for now, but I'll be bringing back both Ariel and Jason for the closing

arguments sometime in November. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Mattersowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Mattisowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-S-K-I.com. You can email me at E-Z at Better Offline.com or visit Better Offline.com to find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat. Where's Your Ed? dot at to visit the Discord

and go to R slash Better Offline to check out our Reddit. Thank you so much for listening. Better Offline is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the IHeartRadio app,

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