Better Offline - The World of AI Regulation with Brian Merchant

Episode Date: October 10, 2025

In this episode, Ed Zitron is joined by writer Brian Merchant to talk about US AI regulation, and how governments never seem to make the effort to understand technology. https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/https://www.bloodinthemachine.com/p/were-about-to-find-out-if-silicon Get $10 off a year’s subscription to my premium newsletter: https://edzitronswheresyouredatghostio.outpost.pub/public/promo-subscription/w08jbm4jwg YOU CAN NOW BUY BETTER OFFLINE MERCH! Go to https://cottonbureau.com/people/better-offline and use code FREE99 for free shipping on orders of $99 or more. --- LINKS: https://www.tinyurl.com/betterofflinelinks Newsletter: https://www.wheresyoured.at/ Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BetterOffline/  Discord: chat.wheresyoured.at Ed's Socials: https://twitter.com/edzitron https://www.instagram.com/edzitronSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Presented by Capital One, founding partner of IHart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Diana Maria Riva, and on my new podcast, How Hard Can It Be? I call on my GenX squad from Ohio to Hollywood as we navigate midlife's most fantastic BS. Unfiltered conversations from night sweats to futas to scheduling sex. Wait, what sex? Is it just me or does every woman my age want to look at Pinterest instead of having sex sometimes?

They say we can't polish a turd, but we're sure going to try. So let's get blunt with laughs, tears, or tears of laughter. Listen to How Hard Can It Be with Diana Maria Riva on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oink, welcome to the monologue this week, except it's a duologue. There's two of us. Better Offline. I'm your host at Zittron. And today I'm joined by Brian Merchant, the author and writer of the book and newsletter, Blood in the Machine. Brian, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. Good to be back.

So today we're talking about AI regulation, the current state of, well, California's regulatory moves, and indeed the very confusing situation. And I think we can start with this, actually. this AI safety bill that was vetoed and then just got signed. What happened there? Yeah, I mean, the long story short is that, you know, the people who were actually worried about catastrophic risk, right? Like the AI Dumer crowd, the people who think that like this is the number one thing to worry about with AI.

They all got together last year and wrote this bill. Last year it was 1047. And it was, you know, again, assuming that you are worried about that kind of thing, like this was like a legitimate stab at trying to keep the companies honest. It did things like mandated like third party audits of the systems to make sure that they weren't, you know, they weren't too risky or that they weren't, you know, including information about biological weapons or whatever and teaching people how to. But the AI companies hated it because. it would, it mandated some sharing of information, some transparency.

It mandated. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Not even a little bit. Even this, even like the safe AI companies, like anthropic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No interest. Right. Even those guys. They were against. So everybody was against it. It passed because Scott Weiner, the sponsor, is a fairly prominent and powerful legislator.

But even though, it passed both houses and was sitting on Newsom's desk, the industry, Silicon Valley, got Newsom to veto it, basically. So Newsom vetoed it. And then he said, let's try it again next year. So Scott Weiner got together with a bunch of, you know, AI ethics people and some. And then so this year he comes back with like an even like a watered down version of even that to prove. Again, the aim is to prevent. catastrophic risk. And yes. And he just signed this bill. So as we're recording this,

you know, he signed it a few days ago. It's on the books. And it's people are like celebrating this thing for some reason. And I'm like, I'm really scratching my head. Why are you not celebrating? Okay.

So what's wrong with it? Okay. Here's what the bill actually does. It does four things, basically. instead of, you know, mandating actual transparency and sharing data with auditors, things that could actually might, you know,

maybe be considered a prescription if you're worried about things like catastrophic risk. One, the new bill has, it enforces the tech companies to publish privacy protocols on a website. So say, yeah. Like a privacy policy. Yes, it says this is what we're doing

to ensure and our security practices, right? This is what we're going to do to keep you safe from catastrophic AI. It sounds very used, yeah. So no checkup policy, no, no, no, no, no, no. And then you need a page. You need a page that people can see. No enforcement.

That'll stop it. And then if something does go wrong and the companies have done something unsafe in their, with their LLMs, they need to report it to the state. So it's an honor system. So they have to tell. And what happens if they don't report it? Unclear. Unclear.

So nothing. Sick. Great stuff. Brilliant. Unclear. So the one thing that you could argue are two things, again, like in theory, these are fine things that it says the other. Yeah, they're just limp. Well, these, those first two things are complete.

They're a limp. I think they're a complete joke. But part three and four is whistleblower protections, which... Nice. You're supposed to have, right? Good to formalize, but... Yeah. Yeah, it's just like kind of like underlining it with a Sharpie saying,

okay, people should be able to blow the whistle if something catastrophic is happening. Right. I have very little faith this will meaningfully change anything at all. I guess there are no, like, protections actually in there? Is there anything that specifies? There's some language that does raise the threshold. Again, theoretically, but you just have to think about how whistleblowers are already treated and how difficult it is for them to come forward with all the NDAs and just sort of the norms in the industry.

So, like, theoretically, you know, but again, and it's supposed to be four workers who are so concerned about catastrophic risk. not about if they see a company doing fraud or whatever this is for catastrophic risk so really no real protections no teeth really no teeth I was reading this thing and I'm not seeing really any enforcement mechanisms other than these companies get a slap on the wrist

and maybe it's a little bit slapier if it comes through but it doesn't sound like there are actual remedies or anything like that not really no there's a finally the fourth thing that it does again in spirit this is okay

like this is it's a good idea it's to start like a public consort like a called Cal Compute like a public a alternative for AI for researchers it says let's give them yeah but it's just a committee it's a committee fuck yeah bureaucracy

it forms a consortium to discuss a group will get together that we'll discuss what might happen in the future off for another meeting or two. Brilliant. Once again. So my read on this whole, and you'll, and I've seen a lot of statements coming out of, you know, otherwise decent sort of orgs saying like, this is a step for, you know, AI safety rig.

And I know it's not. It's not really. It doesn't even seem like it addresses AI. It doesn't seem like it's a, an attempt to mitigate any harms. I mean, it is an attempt to you could, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, it's, it's, I, I, I, I, I, it doesn't think that generally... Which harms? Yeah, because the most... I'm going to guess, so in looking at AI

regulation, you have probably not seen anything that addresses the environment or damage, anything like anything about the stealing. Yeah, workplace surveillance, things like this. So, my read on this, right? So I think, again, I think Scott

Weiner and sort of the group that are, like, the AI safety groups, like, they believe in the stuff, they really lobbied for this. like they think that that is important to have something better than nothing. But the effect of this is largely just that now Gavin Newsom gets to say, like, I signed an AI bill, like, I'm doing my due diligence. And meanwhile, there are a bunch of other bills that we're going to talk about that would actually, you know, do something that would actually sort of meaningfully rein in the AI companies, at least a little bit or at least point away towards doing this. This is just, again, putting your safety policies on a website, like an honor system to alert the state if you've done something wrong, kind of just saying, okay, we'll be...

An honor system for the most well-funded companies in the world. And here's the number one way that you can tell that this is entirely bullshit. And that is that Anthropic is in favor of it. They came out and said, like, this is good. Number two, meta was like, this is sensible. and they didn't support the bill but they're not opposed to it. Even Open AI was like,

well, I think you could tell they thought about... It's any kind of restriction. We don't like that. Even if it's the flimsiest one, I feel like you could see them, like, the gears turning in the corporate machinery. We were like, are we, like,

basically this bill requires us to, like, have an intern, like, write some copy or even just have like chat GPT generated. That's the thing. Put it on a website. They don't even have a thing in this. saying you can't use AI to write it.

I haven't seen anything. I would have probably done that myself personally. Yeah. So number one, it does next to nothing in my eye. And I just can't, I mean, I know all these like advocacy groups and people who are like trying to get some good laws on the big. They're hungry for a win. So they want to say like, yeah, we did something.

But this is, I think, to me, this is worse than nothing because it's going to let Gavin off the hook on like a handful of bills that might actually do something. And it will give the fake view that the AI companies are regulated so they're able to continue doing all the actual harmful stuff. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier.

This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Who's that worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me. Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation.

The group. The yard birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard yard, but they're open to change. Do you have a name suggestion? We're open. Since you guys are middle aged. One erection.

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professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. from the WMBA standout Kate Martin and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you,

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I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clipper Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger.

So if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. Are there any regulations you've seen that actually approach

the actual harms, or sorry, suggested regulations or bills or anything like that. Okay, yeah, there's a couple. So, and I've been talking to, I've talked to lawmakers over this process. I've talked to some of the sponsors of the bills, and I've talked to labor groups.

And the one sort of through line that runs through all of this is that Silicon Valley and its lobbyists have just been out and forth trying to crush even the most sort of basic common sense regulation. And so laws or proposals that started out with some teeth have had most of them knocked out or have been delayed until next session. So we're left with a few things.

We're left with a few things that, you know, I think more than anything, they're just like bellwethers as to whether or not it's even possible to like get to get anything done. because as your listeners will know, right, like the whole AI for enterprise isn't working out so well right now. No. No one buys it. No one's buying it.

No one wants it. So they're going to have to make some changes in the next couple of years. And the way they're going to, my guess is that they're going to try to find ways to sell people on its other capacities, things like it's a surveillance tool. It'll do, you know,

it'll... It's terrible surveillance tool. That's what's funny about this because it's like the actual harms to mitigate would be training and environmental and energy. The number must go up. So it's like we'll regulate. Because the surveillance thing, I get that. Like there is already AI surveillance, but it's like, oh, what if they put all the data in a large language model? Yeah.

Would the large language model do anything with it? Like, what are you? Like, we've already got that. But wait, so what other bills have you seen? Okay, so, you know, there's one, I think the one that's still out there at the time of recording, who knows, it could have been vetoed or signed by the time that this goes to air. But there's one, there's one bill that Silicon Valley is genuinely upset about and afraid of. And it's a bill that, like, sets the very lowest bar. And it says, essentially, if you are going to make a child.

chatbot and market it to children, then you have to be able to demonstrate that this chatbot isn't going to make them harm themselves. Ah. So they hate that. They are, and they're in, you know, they have, there's this Silicon Valley lobbying group that's kind of famous in California, especially, called the Chamber of Progress. It's like, yeah. Sorry, I know.

Just like immediate reflexive. Immediately. I know. gag reflex immediately. So they've got this guy who's out there writing op-eds in like the San Diego Tribune and doing press for going, oh, it's overbroad. And let me tell. Like their actual line on this is if this bill passes, then you're going to be taking

away AI that could educate children. You're going to be taking away AI from children and they're not going to have the same advantages that children with AI have. And they're running this like this big. Facebook campaign. They've hired lobbyists specifically to... They don't often do this. It's a fucking evil people.

They are evil people. I mean, for me, this was like, you know, this was like, it's past the threshold. Once the Adam Rain stuff broke and OpenAI is, you know, trying to hem and haw about, you know, oh, well, you know, we're going to do this or that. It's, we passed

it. We passed the Rubicon, right? They've got chatbots that are, that are telling children to, you know, hide the news so that their parents don't see it. And, like, it's, again, they make it seem like, oh, AI is this frontier. We're going to work something. It's a product. It's a software product. Yeah, go ahead.

I have a theory. I have a theory. So I don't think they can control these models. I don't mean because they're intelligent. I don't mean because they're autonomous. I mean, I don't think you can actually prompt a large language model to categorically stop it doing something. I don't think it's possible.

Then you should not be selling that that piece of software at children. Yeah. 100% agree. I'm just saying that I don't think they're capable. I don't think you're right. But my theory is based on costs because of

Claude Code that they can't do cost control. If they can't do cost control, it means the model won't listen. Yeah. And I reckon that they can't be like, never talk about killing yourself. Yeah.

Like they just can't do that. Yeah. Or it would require, like, going back through, you know, like, there's been, I've seen a lot of sort of speculation that the reason that it's talking like this is that it's, like, a lot of the language is coming from, like, pro-suicide forums in the bowels of the internet. So, like, they don't want to go through and take the time to sort that up. Yeah. Or discussions of suicide. Probably articles as well that say, how to deal with someone who's just horrible stuff. Yeah.

Really. And this, is this a California bill? Yeah, it's a California. California bill. Yeah. And it's and it is yeah. So you know, if you're on Facebook, so there's a, there's a front group spun up by, by some of the VC firms like A16Z and, you know, Andresen and these guys and Y Combinator. And there's a front group called the American Innovators Network. And they're running all these ads arguing that this bill, again, whose sole purpose is to ban chatbos. from being marketed to children that also try to convince them to harm themselves. Not even banning them from being marketed to children, just stopping them being harmful. You have to, yeah, the way that it's freight, which is what they're all hung up on, is it's just like, you have to be able to demonstrate that if you sell this to children, it will not tell them to harm themselves. And I think one of the more reasonable requests you could ever ask of a company.

The most, I cannot think of something that is more, but they're saying, oh, no, it's too broad. everything else will get caught up in this. You can't have a chatbot. And then it's always like, but why? Why couldn't we have this chatbot in the classroom? Oh, because it might tell somebody to kill themselves. Like, that's why. Yeah.

They don't, this is, again, these people should be, we should try and interview them. Like, because it's the question would be, say that you agreed with this bill, you disagree. Say you agree with it. How would you stop this? Yeah.

Just how would you stop it? Can you stop him? Is that why you're upset? Is the reason you're mad because you literally can't stop this? Yeah. Because that's the thing. They hum and har around any kind of protections. Yeah.

Anything. Anything. And now, and I wonder if it's because they can't. Yeah. And they want to be like, oh, it's too powerful. No, it's too shit. Yeah. It's because it sucks.

It's not because it's not because of how powerful. It's because you built something shitty and hard to control. Exactly. It's shitty. Lava is hot and can burn through most things. That doesn't make it intelligent. Your inability to not drink lava just like fucking... I mean, it's a combination of both those things.

Like, it's either, oh, this would be really expensive to fix or, oh, like, I don't know if we can. I reckon what they would have to do is they would have to just neuter it. They would just have to, they would have to just make it so that anything that gets even close to that conversation. would have to be just like shut down to the point that you can't even talk about superhero stuff. Right. They would probably just limit it to the point of nothingness. Yeah.

Which like, yeah, I mean, if that's what they, I mean, again, we're talking about like children here. So like, yes. That seems though, like if that's what they have to do, then that in my view anyways is something that they should do. Another podcast from some SNL late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and Friends.

friends, me and hilarious guests from Jim Gaffigan to Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman, help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel, help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. There's the worst singer in the group? The worst? Yeah. Me.

Is there anything to the idea that because you're from Harvard, you only got in because your parents made a huge donation. The group. The yarn birds, right? That's the name. The Harvard Yard. They're open. Do you have a name suggestion?

We're open. Since you guys are middle-aged, one erection. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Huber me. I need some jokes to make me seem funny. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting, think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, IHearts twice as large as the next two combined.

So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message. Plus, only IHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio. Think podcasting can help your business. Think Iheart. Streaming, radio, and podcasting. Call 844-844-I-Hart to get started. That's 844-E-Hart. Life throws hurdles big and small.

The question is, how do you conquer them? On Hurtle with Emily Abadi, we sit down with the most inspiring women. in sports and wellness. Professional athletes, coaches, and Olympic champions to talk about the challenges that shaped them and the mindset that keeps them going. From the WNBA standout, Kate Martin, and rising hockey star Layla Edwards. If a boy can do it, I don't see why a girl can't. Like, I've never understood that. Like, it didn't make sense in my brain. It's hard to be in spaces that no one looks like you, but don't ever feel like you don't feel like. Don't let that be the reason you don't do it. An Olympic champs Gabby Thomas and Katie Ledecki. The ability to show a gold medal to

someone and have their face light up and smile, that means the world to me. And that's what motivates me to win more gold medals. At our level, at this scale, like being able to fail in front of the entire world. Like, I can do anything. I can do like I can do anything. Because resilience isn't just about winning. It's about showing up, even when it's hard. Listen to Hurtle with Emily Abadi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of I heart women's sports. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying.

Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now, I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new

podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations,

stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Cliverts show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. But again, it's wild because, like, they don't usually hire lobbyists to oppose state level bills, but the sponsor here, Rebecca Bauer Khan, it's the lead act is what it's called. It's AB 1064. She's just like, I've never seen anything like this.

They're like having lobbyists come and knock on my door and like, you know, yelling at me about this. and they're just like it's a full court press and we could talk a little bit after this about like how this is sort of like part of a broader movement where they're you know Silicon Valley is sending its lobbyists out all across the country but especially concentrated

to do on this level I mean Silicon Valley hasn't wanted regulation on anything for a long time but this the level of concentrated effort and sort of the campaigning is new, right? Like, I've been a tech journalist for 15 years, and I've never seen anything like we saw over the summer where they, where Silicon Valley tried to lobby for a ban on all state-level

AI lawmaking. They really got a whole sort of united front together. They got stakeholders from the different- They failed, though? They did fail, but they failed by basically one vote, and they failed because of a Republican in Tennessee who represents Nashville. And she was like,

wait a minute, we have a law in the books that protects our country music industry from being sloppified and would this overturn it? And they were like, well, yeah, but you know, yeah, yeah. And then so she kind of came out against it and that, if it wasn't for that, it would have that, well, it would have passed.

And that is bonkers. It's bonkers. That's wild that country music saved us. Yeah, country music. in Nashville's like no AI music slop law. And they're going to try again, though. They're going to try again. Oh, of course. Yeah, Ted Cruz keeps talking about it.

He's interested in giving it another go. So it'll be coming down the pike. But to be clear, like, no, this has never happened. If you've never seen somebody like say, okay, we're going to ban lawmaking around search. No search engines can have any laws made around them or social networks. This is its own thing. This is AI.

Anything. Yeah. They just can't be laws. No, it's totally anti-democratic. It's totally absurd. And all, I mean, it tells you all you need to know, really, that the Silicon Valley interests are willing to push all their chips in and team up with the Trump administration and its allies to try to get this done. I mean, I don't know, fucking Newsom. No, he's, I mean, Newsom has vetoed a ton of solid AI bill. I mean, last year, Newsom vetoed a good bill that I think.

think was good because it was a, so, I don't know if you, if you caught this, but last year, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,sters and some pro-labor groups, uh, fought for a bill and got a pass, bipartisan, past the house that says, okay, if you're going to use autonomous or AI technology to, to run a truck that's, like, over a certain amount of, of weight, then there should be a human safety operator, making sure it's not hitting people, not running into people. Yeah. It passed both houses. Newsom vetoes it.

And two weeks later, there's the autonomous car that drags the pedestrian across San Francisco. If that timing had been different... Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Gavin. Very good, Gavin. It wouldn't have necessarily applied, but I think the optics would have been different,

so he wouldn't have been able to put... Anyways, Newsom is perfectly happy to veto a lot of this stuff. The difference is his constituents here in California. They care about this. And in the case of the lead act that we were talking about, one of the reasons that it stands any chance at all is that his wife is like a vocal supporter of the lead act. And she's been on some stages saying,

like, I think we should protect our children from AI slop. And so he's going to be like his wife on one hand and all of Silicon Valley's lobbying force on the other. Newsom versus Newson. Jesus Christ. Yeah. So it's weird. So here's something that, why does no one ever push any bills that actually, I realize that even doomed ones, why did, it seems that there's a lack of any bills that are like actually aimed at the technology written by people who have used it, for example.

Yeah. Like, why does that never happen? I mean, we still have this mentality ingrained in this, in this country, especially in the political class. that just doesn't really have a lot of hands-on, you know, experience with the tech. It's changing a little bit. But I think it's just, it's ideology. It's just like, oh, well, like, we don't want to stifle innovation. We don't, you know, if they need to build, you know, a million data centers and, you know,

encircle the nation in Stargate outposts, then I guess that's, then we'll defer to you. It's always been this way. It's always been deferring to industry and then reacting, right? And then saying, like, oh, whoa, well, that was a bridge too far. And then they try to, you know, get some. So, like, there are laws on the book now, like 10 years after social media sort of, you know, was on the scene. But they don't even direct the problem, though. Yeah.

Well, I mean, the biggest problem. Yeah. I mean, there's been some antitrust ever. That's the closest you've probably gotten to some decent efforts at, you know, raining in the giants. To close us up. What would be the regulation that you would want to push through? Other than stopping the kids

getting the AI suicide LLM, that one seems pretty good. But a dream bill for you, what might it look like? What are the things that you actually think need to be restricted? I mean, honestly, like, we have not even touched the, we barely got to the tip of the iceberg here about

what needs to happen because, I mean, the things that, you know, that I worry about are the same ones that you cited, which is with the environmental impacts of just, but that's almost a separate issue, right? And in fact, all that has happened on the legislative and policy front is that the AI companies have convinced,

they did this to Biden, by the way, it wasn't Trump. They convinced them to relax environmental regulations so they could just build more data centers without being subject to as many fines. So you have to get serious. I saw some regulation around they have to report their power draw somewhere. Yeah.

Like they have to talk about how much energy they're using. Wow. Wow. Talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I do think that, I mean, and most of these bills are written in a way that doesn't just apply to AI. There's, there was a decent, I mean, again, it's everything's just been battered to bits by the lobbying machine.

But there is a bill that he did sign that sort of semi restores gig workers' rights to unionize. That's good. It's good, but there's a big asterisk to it. It's a little won't get into it. But it's a good step. We need gig workers to be able to organize. Right now they can't in most of the states. So that I do think, you know, workplace protections and protecting against automated hiring and firing shit and wage depression. Oh, is that the no robot boss thing? The no robot boss. Again, it's like even the sponsor of the bill, Lauren, Lauren, Gonzales, who's with the California Labor Fed, I talked to her and she's like, look, this is what we could get through. Nothing else that we had in there that like really seriously banned discrimination. And it's really not like, it's not about the tools again. It's about allowing bosses to use this as an accountability sink or to offload saying, oh, yeah, well. Which I think is kind of where you need to regulate sometimes.

Yeah, exactly. Especially when you're not going to regulate the fucking technology. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, there's a, there's a million things that need. need to happen. I mean, I think antitrust absolutely needs to happen. But I, you know, I would, I would get way more radical than anything that's being even even talked about right now. Because right now, it's just profoundly anti-democratic where we're at right now. Silicon Valley is just calling, they're just, you know, better than anybody. They're just hoarding the capital.

This is the one thing, and maybe this is a dumb ass's opinion, but why do you have to fucking listen to lobbyists. You, I mean, you do not. You do not. Yeah, like, I realize I'm not a big politics, Noah, but that feels like you could just not talk to them. I guess that sometimes they contribute to your

political campaigns, but just don't do it. That's it. Yeah, just lots of door. This is how I end to politics. I'm just like, what if you didn't listen to? You just didn't pick up. That's a try to hear all for our times. No.

No. Why not? I don't want to talk to you. You sound really annoying. You keep, I want to run this bill. You keep texting and calling me saying I shouldn't. This is going to block you. Politicians, listen.

Let's get you a soapbox. I'll vote for Red Zetron. All right, Brian. Where can people find you? I am Blood and The Machine.com and Brian Merchant on most social media platforms. Lovely. Thank you for joining me. This has, of course, been your better offline duelogue for the week.

Back next week with the interview with Stephen Burke from Games Nexus. Thank you for listening, everyone. Thank you for listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song is Mattersowski. You can check out more of his music and audio projects at Mattisowski.com. M-A-T-T-O-S-O-S-K-I.com. You can email me at E-Z at Better Offline.com or visit Better Offline.com to find more podcast links and, of course, my newsletter.

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