Between the Moon - Ep 25: Standing on the Seawall with Bronwyn Simons

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Welcome back to Lunar Currents, a special feature of the Between the Moon podcast with your host April McMurtry of THE MOON IS MY CALENDAR and award-winning predictive astrologer, psychic medium, mentor, and astrology teacher Bronwyn Simons.Today’s episode is like 3 mini-episodes in one! To begin with, Bronwyn and I discuss practical wisdom for developing and sustaining a lunar tracking practice and why it is so important for these times.We also share some personal experiences with our Progressed Moon Signs (link below to look up yours) as an example of tracking our awareness with a particular cycle that brings us into deep relationship with each of the signs.And then we play a little guessing game with two of the planets who are preparing to make some big moves next year. The suggestion we offer to track when the moon moves from Pisces to Aries each cycle is one way to get a sense of the upcoming conjunction of Saturn and Neptune. Join our Mercurial minds as we explore how Standing on the Seawall is more than just a metaphor for the interplay between these planets as we navigate unprecedented times in deciphering illusion and reality.Here is a timeline of dates for the the interplay of Saturn and Neptune as they approach a new synodic cycle at the Big Bang Degree of 0 degrees Aries in Feb 2026.Saturn & Neptune both in Pisces: March 2023 - March 2025Saturn in Pisces, Neptune in Aries: March 2025 - May 2025Saturn & Neptune both in Aries: May 2025 - Sep 2025Saturn & Neptune return to Pisces: Oct 2025 - Jan 2026Neptune enters Aries again: Jan 26 2026Saturn enters Aries again: Feb 13 2026Saturn/Neptune conjunction at 0 Aries: Feb 20 2026Saturn & Neptune both in Aries: Feb 2026 - Apr 2028Dates drawn from the Lady Cazimi article linked below.)) If you love this episode, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify - thanks so much for listening! ((The New Moon Calendar Journal is available in the shop! Order your copy today.This simple and beautiful circular calendar and journal establishes the new moon as the starting point for each monthly cycle. By using a circular calendar you perceive time in relation to nature more clearly, and patterns in your own experience become more apparent. It provides a structure for connecting to your inner wisdom and natural rhythms.LINKS* Join me for a Calendar Countdown for the New Moon after Solstice. Sign up for my newsletter:https://themoonismycalendar.com/moonletters-sign-up* Calculate your Progressed Moon Tutorial: https://themoonismycalendar.com/articles/find-your-progressed-moon-sign* Link to order your copy of for lunar tracking:https://themoonismycalendar.com/new-products* For more in-depth analysis of the planetary interplay check out the article by Steph Koyfman - Reality Undefined: The Saturn/Neptune Years (2023-2028)https://www.ladycazimi.com/blog/saturn-neptune-conjunction-pisces-aries* We mention AI art and our visions of reality towards the end of the episode, and I just came across an episode of the All My Relations Podcast for anyone who might not be aware of the devastating impacts of data and the heat it produces to engage with AI and all the devices that are a part of daily life. The conversation is super smart and funny/not funny at the same time!https://www.allmyrelationspodcast.com/podcast/episode/7b45f1e5/indigenous-ai-revolution-or-colonizer-b******t This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit themoonismycalendar.substack.com/subscribe

Welcome, dear listener, to Lunar Currents, a special feature on the Between the Moon podcast with myself, April McMurtry and predictive astrologer Bronwyn-Simon-Simonds. Lunar currents is a moonly conversation about embodying the living sky, exploring how astrology helps us enter into the mythic nature of our life story, and musing on our relationship with time, creativity, intuition, and many other magical connections. Welcome to today's episode. I'm April McMurtry, your host here on Lunar Currents and Between the Moon. I am the founder of The Moon is My Calendar, and this conversation today is really like three mini episodes, all in one with this thread or this through line of our

connection to lunar tracking and how having a dedicated practice to self-study in relationship with cycles can really support us in times of uncertainty. So we start out with exploring some of the practical like a how-to around lunar tracking and share some of our own personal experiences. And then take a little side tour. It's not really a total detour, but our side quest to the progressed moon signs. As an illustration and an example of a longer cycle that can bring us into a really deep relationship with each of the signs of the zodiac. It's a lifelong practice. And I created a tutorial on my website. So that's linked below if you're curious and want to know what your secondary progressed moon sign is currently in and maybe give some insight into the

tone of your life. These chapters last two and a half years. Super helpful for anticipating big changes. It's a predictive tool. So Bronman and I both share some of our lived experience in tracking the progressed moon. It's fascinating. I don't know how people live without knowing about it. So if you're listening and you're like, wait, what is that? Get on board. And if you're already tracking it, please share in the comments because I'd love to know some of your experiences with the progressed moon signs. Okay. And then from there, we go a little deeper into some of the bigger shifts and changes that are on the horizon, but are actually already underway with two of the outer planets.

And we play a little guessing game. And honestly, when we first started, it was my idea. But I thought we were talking about a different planet. And so I figure it out, but I'm not going to say which planets they are. And it becomes clear in our conversation. And it's also, if you read the show notes, you can probably guess which planets I'm talking about. And this episode is actually named standing on the same. seawall, this metaphor that goes beyond just metaphor, but the experience of what is it like standing

on the seawall, creating a structure to hold back the water and the water wanting to flow. And how that push and pull dynamic between these two planets is part of the tension that will be experienced and also part of the profound support for the structures and the success around bringing dreams and visions into reality and into form. So it's a great conversation. I learned a lot. I feel like whenever I'm getting to speak with Bronwyn about some of these bigger ideas and themes,

some clarity just comes through the intuition and in our own playing with the ideas and themes. And so that's what having unscripted conversations can bring to the surface things that want to be revealed but maybe aren't obvious to begin with. So for me, this is calendar season. I self-publish and produce the New Moon Calendar and Journal and the Lunar Wall Calendar to start at the New Moon after winter solstice. So whichever new moon is closest to winter solstice, this new moon coming up, December 30th is the new moon. And if you haven't ordered your lunar wall

calendars or the New Moon calendar and journal, which are amazing tools for holding and containing your practice of self-study and relationship with cycles to offer that space to really practice lunar tracking along with the moon. Those are available in the shop or you can visit my website to learn more. It's the moon ismycallender.com. I will be doing a calendar countdown. So from solstice to the new moon, sharing some tools and tips and insight. And if you want to follow along with that, make sure you're subscribed here on Substack and get on my newsletter because I will be sharing more there as well. All right, we are going to dive in. Okay. Welcome everyone. Hi, Bronwyn. Hi, April. For listeners who aren't familiar with your work or with you,

yet if you wanted to share a little bit about what you share and through your work in the world. Yeah. So I'm Bronwyn and I'm a consulting astrologer and I also mentor people who are learning astrology and becoming professional astrologers. I live on beautiful Vancouver Island and I feel really passionate like you do, April, about helping people to feel at home in and with the living world and the living sky and to use astrology to enhance that sense of belonging in the natural world and to approach the cycles as aids in growth and self-understanding and self-awareness beautiful one of the primary questions I get asked in in my work, but especially with the tool with the New Moon Calendar and Journal, is what am I

supposed to track? What am I actually writing down or what am I looking for or what am I so, how do I do this? How do I go about lunar tracking or this self-study in relationship with cycles that can take so many forms? Yeah. Right? And so if you have a curious mind about how things interrelate with your body and the environment tracking can be really fun. I think one of the main things is that there isn't a right way.

There isn't some kind of measure or standard or rubric about how to go about doing it. But there are approaches and like a process. And it's almost like the proof is in the pudding of when we're practicing and have an active practice of self-study and tracking with, inner cycles, the outer cycles, that dynamic and relationship of the individual and the collective, then we see the themes play out. Yeah. Or we see those lessons reflected back to us through certain archetypes.

Yeah. Or even being able to kind of course correct of see ourselves in a certain mode or pattern or something that might be habitual or just something that's not serving or it's not working. Yeah. And to see that and to be able to course correct. and maybe not get stuck in certain ways of going about something. Yeah.

I give a kind of controversial answer to that question of what should I track as we jump into this conversation. And I would say that if you're beginning tracking, it really doesn't matter what you choose to track. It could be the way your body feels every day. It could be your mood. It could be your relationships. it could be your work, your social situation.

It doesn't matter. Pick any area of life or feeling. Because what you're going to see if you stick with the, and it is a little bit of a discipline, but I think it's a fun discipline. If you stick with the discipline of tracking, you start to see this magical thing about astrology and lunar wisdom,

which is there aren't the clear separations between these different areas of life that we think there are. And the inner, the outer, the social, the worldly, the natural are actually all kind of vibrating at the same frequency, if you will, at the same time. So how you're feeling emotionally, how your body is feeling, what you're seeing on the news, how the people in relationship with you are behaving, you start to note the same. you start to note the subtle similarities in all of those things at any given time. And I think this is really where tracking starts to shift our worldview into one of greater unity and belonging.

Not as a philosophy, but as a lived experience. We start to see how everything reflects everything else, which is a beautiful philosophy, but it also can be your lived experience. And it doesn't happen through some momentary awakening that actually happens through the daily simple tracking. So there's no one thing to track to get that breakthrough. And it isn't really like a dramatic breakthrough or at least maybe for some people it is. For me, it wasn't. It was the daily habit, the daily self-nurturance of paying attention to the world around me and then starting to see what the weather, the news stories, the people around me, my inner self, my health,

were all kind of saying the same thing at the same time, which is so cool. It makes you want to learn more about how the cycles work because the world becomes much more magical, as well as it's very practical because you know what to expect from what's going to happen in the world to how the people around you are going to behave. So it's both magical and practical. I appreciate that so much because I think the answer I would give is it doesn't matter what you track. But everybody needs, we all need something to go on to get started. Yeah.

So whatever appeals to you, right? Like what do you want to track? I, and it's so interesting because this is not how I am in most of my life is the things that are my, I track steadily all actually have to do with numbers. and everything else is like layered in, but my foundation is hours of sleep. What time did I actually go to bed and what time did I actually wake up? Because for me, that sets the foundation of the tone of everything else of how I'm going to be able to respond in any moment. It has the biggest impact overall.

And so I will, and it seems tedious. And it seems like why bother? there's apps for that and who cares and whatever. But I have found because I can veer into burning the candle at both ends so quickly and easily that that is a pattern that I'm consciously trying to break and reform or have a different relationship with or just notice. And so any of the thing is like this beautiful practice of noticing, which like you said, you know, not necessarily with the sleep piece has lots of, you know, it could all be about that

because like you said, everything is connected in. There isn't some wall or separation so that the noticing brings a kind of a kinship. Yeah. And a curiosity. And maybe there isn't some answer. And yes, I probably get less sleeper on full moons. And I think maybe most people do with the, with the, with the increased amount of light in the night, but it's not always that way. So it's not just a pattern that is set and repeats itself. Every single cycle is so dynamic. Yeah, and there's so many different factors that play into it.

And if we put ourselves in the center of it and attuned to our own baseline, then I think that helps us to understand even more. You know, that tracking of the hours of sleep is something that I've been doing recently too and health-wise and just as far as the mental and emotional energy that I have available. I mean, we all know it's important, but I think there's nothing like seeing and seeing how that shifts over a lunar cycle and seeing how, yes, the lunar phases absolutely have an impact, also the sign that the moon is in, also what's happening with the planets. I ended up sleeping much later this morning than I intended to, and then I realized, well, Neptune is

stationing. And that's something that, you know, maybe that doesn't affect everybody that way, but I have my natal Neptune in my sixth house of daily life and daily habits. So when Neptune makes changes like that, I really feel it in my body. That may not be true for you. It's absolutely true for me. So we can expand this tracking out. I think it activates our curiosity, too, where it might be like, well, we're, where are we in a

first quarter moon? That's not usually a time when I'm finding myself sleeping more. So I wonder what's happening with that. The moon is in a cardinal sign. I'm usually not sleeping more. Well, there's this other thing happening. And how does that relate to what I'm experiencing with my health? So sleep, you're saying is the primary thing that right now in your life is pulling you back to your tracking and that you're really learning from. It's a baseline and it's something that's easily measurable. Like there's, I went to bed at 11 o'clock. It's 11 o'clock. There isn't like guesswork around that. How to practice tracking without like obsessing. It's not like I'm set like, oh no, I didn't get my eight hours. Okay. This is such a good point because you're just noticing.

You're noticing and making a note of, which is really all it is, right? And in the beautiful context, of the new moon calendar. I think that's the piece that makes it fun. And then you start to see over time instead of judging each time like, oh, I didn't get my X number of hours. It's optimal. Or trying to force yourself. You're just noticing what your body needs. You're noticing the times when you don't meet your body's needs and what the results of that are. And this is again where tracking can be self-care because it gives us more of a sense of how we, are over time and maybe that can relieve some anxiety and some you know we're always trying to get to hack things and to optimize our performance and maybe maybe we can be gentler than that and

just notice when I uh just to give an example of how it truly can be anything is when I first got a few years ago, my first New Moon calendar journal. I love that page in the front where you have all the little personal glyphs and encouragement for people to create their personal glyphs for different things that might happen throughout their day and how all the examples you give run the gamut of things that might seem very trivial to things that are really important and, you know, from activities to emotions. But it came at a time in my life when we had just moved into a place that had big gardens. And I was getting back into the habit of gardening after living in a condo on the third floor for years. And one of the things that I started tracking was whether or not I gardened that

day. And I made a little personal glyph for the gardening. And really, I just tracked that because it was something to track. I didn't have any idea of what that would be or it was just a bigger part of my life at that time. And I started tracking it. And what I noticed after a month or two was the profound impact on my mental health. If I went for a few days, even just a few days without even spending 15 minutes putting my hands in the dirt in the garden, other things started to happen like in those days, there would be like more emotional upset or there would be it allowed me to make that connection. I mean, we all know it's supposed to be good for us. Spend time in nature. Get your hands in the dirt. It's one thing to know it and it's another

thing to see it reflected so blatantly in your daily life. And tracking gives us an opportunity to do that. And it also kind of opened up the gardening with the lunar phases, but you wouldn't even have to take it that far. It's just noticing. activities and the impact that it has over time. And then the next step with that is making those cosmic connections, if you will, like what's happening with the moon, what's happening with Neptune. That's sort of next level. But you really can just start with, oh, I'm putting a little leaf on my calendar because

I gardened. And because this April says, just start with something. So, okay, I'll start with whether I'm gardening or not. Mm-hmm. And it can be really, it can be really impactful. Yeah. I think that's the part, right? Like you said, we're not trying to fix.

We're not fixing anything. We're not solving. We're not necessarily even solving something. And this goes so much against the grain where I feel like any of the self-help type books or to be convinced to do something, there has to be these very measurable results that are guaranteed. Yeah, like some guaranteed measurable result that if you do this, then this will happen. And this invitation, in particular with the New Moon Calendar and Journal and with lunar tracking, I'm even just clarifying as we're talking, it really is an invitation into relationship. It's an invitation into noticing.

There's an invitation into the mystery that in the beginning, I did not know, that it's walking the path of mystery with the moment. moon and it's not self-care isolated or removed or separate from nature. And that's the other part of journaling, right, with the moon, is that honestly, if it was just me on my own to show up and meditate every morning, I'm like, no one's going to know. No one will know if I don't do it. That accountability of like, yeah, yeah. No one will know except I will. And when we, the kind of trust we build with ourselves of when we're doing the things that we know we love and it's not about I should do this because meditating is good.

I should journal because someone says journaling is good for me. On the days that I will show up for the moon, it's almost this calling. Something I wouldn't necessarily do for myself that I would do for somebody else. And in the case of somebody else is the changing nature of the moon. Yeah. Sometimes it is hard to put to words when you just start somewhere where that can lead you and what opens up. And it does require a little trust of not necessarily knowing because for each of us, what wants to be revealed, things that we're uncovering or tapping into are different. the moon is such an amazing guide into that path of walking with the unknown. Yeah. All of that is really beautiful.

And what you said about the connection with nature, I feel like this is a place where if I tell people, which I often do, that astrology is about connecting with nature and natural cycles, I often get kind of a blank look. But isn't it about people have all kinds of, of different ideas what it's about. But I think people don't think of the sky as the great wilderness that it is. People have such a limited, through no fault of our own, it's because of what comes

to us through our culture, this limited idea of what the natural world is. It's like trees and mountains and flowing streams. That's quote unquote nature and something we should go out into a lot for our health and to enjoy the beauty. But of course, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's it's us. It's everything around us, whether it's an urban or natural environment. And it's the living sky. And the cycles of the planets are natural cycles just in the same way that your menstrual cycle is a natural cycle. Your breathing is a natural cycle. And then making that connection that those big natural cycles not only influence, but reflect the smaller natural cycles. It's like this Russian doll of interlocking cycles that all are similar,

how it all does come back to the moon. And I think this is where we start to understand how astrology is about natural cycles and about how the moon is our greatest teacher of not only about ourselves, but about astrology in general. Because if we know her cycles, she's a model of all cycles. helps us to understand the planetary cycles. And then the outer planets, you're not going to feel on their own. It's how they move through placements in your chart or how they move in relationship

to the personal planets and the sun and the moon. When there's a lot of excitement, not going to say hype, but when there's a lot of excitement about an ingress like the Pluto ingress into Aquarius, or we have a bunch of those coming up this year, people naturally get excited about that ingress and the day and the time surrounding that. And it may feel like nothing because it's so big. It's like when the tide starts to turn, right? You might be looking out and not really notice it. You don't really see it until you can pinpoint like, oh, I left my shoes there and look, the shoes are so close to the water now. It takes bringing it to something personal before you really start to see what that big shift is.

And that's so with tracking, it's like personal tracking doesn't really happen around the big outer planets because they're so slow and because they're so collective. It's going to happen when those planets are in relationship to especially the moon, but the inner planets. and when they're in relationship to your personal planets. So, yeah. I love that idea of having a marker, like the shoes. Yeah. Oh, boy, you know, in that in that example of like, oh, boy, Pluto's getting close to my whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. Whereas you're just looking out at the tideline, you're like, is it? I can't even tell if it's coming in or going out now. Yeah. And let's see you're like a title expert. Right. which all of this the self-study in relationship with cycles and the lunar tracking just that personal tracking

is developing that skill am i coming or going is this energy coming or going is there like we had a tsunami alert yesterday is there a tsunami on its way that kind of thing the rumblings that might feel quiet and small to begin with that build up um and So it's like attuning the senses. Yeah. Thankfully, there was no tsunami. They called it off. But in those kinds of cases, when there's a lot of activity and movement, earthquake offshore,

like all of that can lead to something or not. And such a great analogy, the big earth changes. They often actually do literally accompany these big ingresses. And Neptune is stationing along with Mars. So I was like, uh-oh, maybe they're really will. be a tsunami. But not only do we often see it literally, but it's just a great metaphor for what happens when the outer planets change. It's like those big tectonic plates are moving. And sometimes they move and we don't even know it. And sometimes they move and, you know, your chimney collapses.

It's, it all depends on where you're situated. Right. The examples of in the outer world, paying attention to the world events and paying attention to the collective. And then that inner realm and the inner landscape, which really does bring us into the moon and what's personal and what's like the closest to home, the thing that's closest to home. Yeah. I love engaging in online play and dialogues around astrology. I think it's great that astrology has become so popular. So let me say that first. But I also think that it misleads us a little bit into thinking maybe astrology is all about being a personality test. Or maybe it's all about, oh, these big events, like, oh, Pluto's in Aquarius, what does that mean? And then the next big event, whatever it is.

Those things are fun. Keep doing those things. Keep engaging with that astrology. It's nothing wrong with that. But in essence, it's about time and nature and about understanding ourselves, not our personality, but how we are embedded in nature and how our life unfolds in cycles. And it's this amazing tool to inform us about how we are going to be unfolding into time. And first teacher, the moon, first teacher about so many things, including how any of those cycles that seem so complicated when we first start reading about them, they seem sort of heady and abstract and so Neptune, what? Moon brings it home to the body and heart.

And daily. Mm-hmm. It's starting small and it is like it's starting with what's close to home and it's starting with what's the internal landscape. And in tracking, we're harnessing our attention. We are taking that kind, that command and establishing what it is that we care about. And going from there. And so, yeah, I start, I start with sleep as that baseline.

like you were saying, attuning to our own baseline so that then we can notice what's above or below or notice what's like, this feels very different. And I will say, you know, none of this I didn't know at the beginning, but to work with the moon and work with different layers and one of those cycles of tracking around the progressed moon, I feel like this is a tool for everybody to know they're progressed, not even just moon phase, because that is a beautiful teaching, but the progressed moon of what sign that's in is it is one of those things that, for me at least, I've been tracking the last seven or eight years progressed moon the sign. Some of it in hindsight looking back, but when we're able to track something when it's happening in the moment and see it all unfolding in the moment, it's like wild. It's so wild. wild. It is one of those things that I've seen night or day when it's when the transit actually

happens. And what you've been sharing too is like when we're when we're you know, connecting with outer planets that far off it takes that relationship with something that is closer to home. And so when it is the moon, this night and day of chapters of life. Yes. The progressed moon sign is I do wish everybody would tune into that. because you don't have to, it sounds complicated and it really isn't at all. And for me, it has been those two and a half year chapters are when I see really profound shifts. For me, it's often in my self-expression, even down to the way I dress. It's been one of the most obvious things to track as a visible change in my persona and being in the way I want to express myself in the world.

So, yeah, wholeheartedly, I wish more people had access to that tool. Yeah. And it's something, like you said, it's every two and a half years. So there's a chapter. And so you may be in the middle of one. So sometimes like in the middle of something that's a longer cycle, it's like, well, this is just the norm right now. But it's when that norm jumps or leaps into the next sign. Yeah.

It's kind of exciting. And so there can, when you know it's coming. And I was just looking, because my. progressed moon moved into Gemini. Ooh. Well, yeah, it's been my last two years. I've been living the Gemini life. And like, who.

Yeah. So it makes sense. You know, this podcast started around that time. So things that were looking at the things where there's overlap, just like you were saying with tracking is like, here's this point of reference. If whatever it might be, the point of reference of the progressed moon. And I'll share some in the notes and then maybe in some form of offering for people more curious because it's really, it is something that's easy to access when you know what you're looking for.

Yeah. You don't have to know a lot of astrology. You can just calculate it. Yeah. And then start noticing the tone of things or the ways that you're going about making decisions or the kinds of opportunities that show up and what you're saying yes to and life taking off in another direction. Yeah. Very dramatic.

And so for sharing for a personal example, the actual day that my progress movement moved into Gemini, that day I signed a contract to work with a nonprofit youth leadership organization that does immersion and service abroad. And so there's a component of travel. And yes, it's sort of like farther off travel than usually we associate with Gemini. But there's this like, it's a string of Gemini keywords from youth. There's a language component too, right? And to travel. Yeah. So mercurial.

Yeah. Language. Spanish language. A lot of students come who are developing language skills and want to communicate and have this experience. And it was the day. And I was on the fence. I was wavering because I was just like not sure.

I'm like, is my life going to go in this whole other direction? And it felt unstoppable. And it felt like if I was to say no or try to put a plug in it or like whatever, that it would be going against a flow that felt very unexpected. And so because I had the background reference of if my progress moves moving into Gemini, and here I'm going to have another email and I'm going to be communicating with families in my own community who are wanting to be a part of this, then clearly if I'm looking for signs or meaning or guidance for what to do, then the answer is.

There it is. Yeah. So yeah, that's been my, you know, last two and a half years. I'm like, well, when is the next chapter starting? And so that in terms of marking dates or marking things to track, I'm going to be circling that for this year to notice then what is the shift from Gemini to cancer? Yeah. A very personal way with progressed moon.

So much personal impact. And that shift will be really, really noticeable. I mean, they all are those borderlines between the signs. Just kind of random question about this. do you find that your personal style changes as your progressed moon changes? I'd be curious to hear for you with the personal style because I feel like it has been more about the activity that I'm in and work especially. When my progress moon was in Aries was when I did my kundalini yoga teacher training

and I had red streaks on my face. Oh, wow. From some kind of rosacea, some kind of something that I didn't know, but any photographs or videos of me at that time, was my face had red streaks on it. And in a connection with Aries, that is ruled by the head and the face and things with like, and the heat and the redness. And that all resolved when the moon moved, progressed moon moved into Taurus.

And just resolved itself. Yeah, with Taurus was most of the pandemic and being close to home and moving a lot slower. And I was ready for that. With Progress Moon and Aries, I was feeling like, I can't. keep up with this pace. I can't keep up with a pace of my life. The acceleration was so fast. And to slow completely down and have the world slow down at the same time. Yeah. If Progressive Muntaurus was a relief. And there was a lot of resources that were built up in my

work by teaching of mine and having that experience. And then to move in Gemini, I'm back to the like, I don't know if I can keep up with a pace of. Yeah. But I'm learning those skills. And so learning the ways to be with each of the size. and embody that. It's all those things for me, but I have noticed a funny thing. And that's why I'm asking because I don't know if it's just me the way it happens for me in my chart. But yes, the progressed moon absolutely reflects activities and things that I'm drawn to,

opportunities that arise. But so much what I wear. And I think I first started to notice this a few years. years ago when my progress moon was in cancer, my natal moon is in cancer, but during that phase, um, it's when I first started to make the connection with style, because it was so literal. I went through this phase of wanting to wear lots of flowing kind of white and gray colored, silky things. I was in a huge scarf era. I was wearing lots of silver jewelry, like lots of silver jewelry, and even moonstones in particular. Um, and,

And when I shifted into Leo, along with the way that I work, changing a lot and feeling the need to be a lot more visible and having a lot more opportunities come into my life to be visible. I also had Saturn up high in my chart in the 10th house at that time. So it was really a great career time, lots of visibility and nice timing for that moon and Leo. and I was occupied with other things besides thinking about how I was dressing, but at some point I noticed that I had accumulated in the course of a few months about 10 items that were leopard skin. And it just cracked me up when I made the connection because I'm not like, like you know me, I'm not like really a leopard skin kind of person, but I had shoes, scarves, socks, t-shirts, sweaters, like even a pair of leopard skin jeans.

And I was like, this has got to be, I'm going to pay attention to this from now on because I think the progressed moon is telling me how to dress along with bringing all kinds of other things into my life. And then so I'm in the Virgo now coming out of that, have given away all of the leopard skin because why? Why on earth would I wear leopard? What possessed you? And now I'm all about like, well, what's comfortable and practical? And I'm just, I have like 20 sweatsuits in my closet right now that are beige, which is very, very vert. I mean, I shouldn't say that because some of the Virgos in my life has some of the best fashion sense. But what I noticed in myself was really prioritizing comfort and practicality.

So I'm looking forward. I'm about to shift into that Libra. That Libre progressed moon. And I'm looking forward to focusing on pretty again. And like, what's going to happen? How is my style going to transform? Am I going to grow up my hair again? What's going to happen? I'm not going to be wearing like even right now. I'm just wearing like a giant fluffy sweatshirt.

That's the superficial piece, but I also did notice again with the Leo that being much more visible. And it's not only how you feel, right? This is what you're saying too. It's the opportunities that come from outside. And then with Virgo, it's been very much about finding the microstructures to support my life. and suddenly falling in love with spreadsheets, having a spreadsheet for everything. Again, it's like the leopard skin. Like, where did that come from? That's not my personality. And classic, like, classic Virgo. It's almost silly how classic that is, but it has been a time of really focusing on how to be supported through that discernment and detail in personal planning.

And that's been so helpful. And with the Mercury rulership, I think, have come more opportunities for a particular kind of teaching and sharing. And also, interestingly, a return to my art practice, which I think fits in with that, with a somehow that, I think because of the kind of work that I do, which is illustrative and detailed, it fits with the Virgo. So I'm a little bit, I got to say, because Libra is not a sign that I have a lot of placements in or a lot of people in my life that are Libra's. It's one of my less understood placements. So I'm curious because it's a 30 year cycle, right? It's been a long time since I had to progressed Libra Moon. But that's another thing that we can do is look back 30 years. Well, what was going on with that Libra Moon? What will that bring into my life? Will it be a new kind of visibility? Will it be, opening up into relationship. Will it be a time when maybe I'll rebrand and have a new pretty design for everything? I don't know. I'm looking forward to it. It's interesting with the relationship that we've developed over the last two and a half years that we're both in the Mercury-ruled moons right now. Yeah. It's very expressive of how we've been working together and sharing. So much so. I mean,

sharing on a podcast and noting each other and researching and sharing back and forth. discoveries. And so I am very curious in moving in progressed moon. So I just looked, and this is one of the things is when we know a particular date, you know, I will write it in the New Moon calendar and journal and see. So August 10th, which is the day after a full moon, is my progressed moon moving into cancer. So curious to see. And I think that's the part I also get a lot of questions about what does it mean, what does it mean or what's it going to mean? And almost like wanting to know in advance or even like if the moon is in particular sign or any we could talk about any of the planets and the sign that they're in or where they're going to be

where they're headed. Yeah. The question of what does it mean. And it's taken me a long time to understand where that question comes from and how to respond. Because, for me, the point is to find out and to live it. Right. And all of the practices of self-study and of lunar tracking allow us to be alert and aware and picking up on and seeing signs and having like the symbolic site to see different ways that that energy can be expressed in form, you know, in our life.

To then be curious and to live it and be like, well, that was a really. creative way for my progressed Gemini moon to show up with this opportunity to, you know, take in a whole other direction. So I have another plate to spin. And how can I, how can I stay in this juggling act and keep, you know, like, and have fun with it rather than really stress out? So that the why or what does it mean, I think comes through the practice. And that's, you know, our conversations that we share. I think that. that in that sharing of the discoveries that come up and for for learning having fluency with how the signs feel.

And like you said the moon, like it is almost like that taking on a new cloak or outfit or however that the moon can teach us how that feels along the way. So then we can apply that. to other planets and things to track. Yeah, yeah. And I think one of the things that inspired us to have this conversation today is because we're going into a year where there are lots of big changes with the outer planets. And I think you and I both get questions from people about what does that mean and how do I

integrate that into my life? And I think one of the most important things to know is that outer planets are called trans personal for a reason and the effect that they have or the what we see mirrored in them is mostly about collective experience. And it takes some finesse to see where and how it's going to land in our life and chart. So hopefully that, just having that piece of information will be some reassurance because I know that there's been a lot of, and understandably so. We are going into a major period of shifting cycles.

But I think as astrologers, when we talk about that, it's important for us to really emphasize for people who are listening, who may not know as much about how everything works, to understand that there is a difference between collective cycles and personal cycles, and that all of these big collective cycles that you're hearing about are not necessarily going to have the dramatic and drastic impact on you personally in your personal life that you're hearing about them having,

that these are things we're going to go through as a human family and that where it lands in your chart and how you can understand it through your personal planets and lunar transits really has to do with what is your relationship to the collective around this particular experience? Are you going to be very personally impacted? Are you going to be there for people who are personally impacted?

Are you going to really be on the sidelines? And it can be any of those things. So I know a lot of people have been coming to me with fear about what's coming next year. And there's so much drama in the way that we've been talking about it. And I know I've been doing that as well because it is dramatic. But it's dramatic on a trans personal level where it's dramatic because of the big timeframes involved that we're shifting out of like 20 year cycles 15 year cycles 200 year cycles into new cycles of that length which also means things take a long time to get rolling long cycles

take a long time to evolve so i think it's a good idea to calm down and pay attention to our immediate neighborhood what's happening with your personal planets what's happening with the moon and noticing when those personal placements or the personal transatl it's bring the bigger stuff home to us what that looks like. There's what's happening for the world and the human family. And then there's how and where we have connection with that. So it's sometimes hard to find the right language to talk about it because, yes, we're going into big transformative times. And yes, also, you can calm down.

It's going to be okay. It's not all happening at once. And it's not all happening to me personally or you personally. Yeah. I, I'm, when you were speaking, I was thinking about, you know, a kind of a desire to pinpoint, like, what's going to happen on what, what dates and what, what is the timeline. And I think that a practice of tracking and noticing allows for, I often find, and this, this became true for me and for a lot of people who are maybe starting out on a journey with astrology and don't, have the specifics of like knowing which planets are in which signs or even how to go about accessing that information with a practice of noticing of tracking of self-study in relationship with cycles those people pick up on the themes you know for those of us who have like the lens of astrology you can say oh that's because this and this is happening but even without

that to live what's true for us especially not to to give power away to an expert. I mean, I see that happen all the time. So-and-so says, this is about the moon. It's not a good day to do this. So I'm not going to do this. I'm like, did you check in with yourself first? Yeah.

That's not a way that I want to live my life. It's like, yeah, ruled by the things as when we have that personal authority agency, but also relationship and respect for what's showing up and where there. there are the openings and where we're forcing through things and where we need to sort of step back or where we need to actually jump in and feeling that kind of pulse comes, I would say, comes from a practice of tracking and noticing, even something like just your sleep, how that actually translates to picking up on what the shifts are is there's an accessing of intuition, there's an accessing of the inner knowing that's already there. There's a, yeah, a waking up

to that and then to layer in the language and maybe it's not that it's sophistication. I'm trying to think of what the word is, but it's a way of framing and honing and harnessing attention to understand that the patterns and the themes that show up can be expressed through the astrological language. Yeah. So getting specific and just looking into 2025 and getting specific with with two planets in particular. And I wonder if I'm like wanting to play a game. What if start describing one of the planets and then just see for, you know, for listeners to like when you start to key into which planet we're talking about.

All right. I love games. I'm a Gemini. I love games. I know how to start out. So it's like not immediately obvious. When we're tuning into a, to an energy where there might be a sudden, shift. Yeah. Dreams. A current that's running through that may feel like it's vibrating at a either higher frequency when that kind of, I'm thinking about when we're tracking and what it is we're honing in on that would be related to this planet. Dreams, um, passions and illusions, the, even the kind of entertainment that we're,

drawn to watching the stories that we want to engage with, the movies we love and the, you know, sometimes you go through phases and then suddenly you just want to watch a bunch of thrillers and then you don't want to watch thrillers anymore. You want to watch romances. And so paying attention to that, what kinds of illusions do you want to be charmed by? What kind of spiritual or meditative practices are you drawn to? And again, dreams, like, what are your dreams telling you? I started out talking about Uranus, and then I realized that you were talking about Neptune. Oh, right, the current. We were talking about two different kinds of currents. Right in the water or the light vibration. Yeah, like an electrical current or a tidal current.

there are really there's some similarities between those two archetypes and and it is around that um but yeah i was talking about Neptune but even that is very Neptuneian of like I was playing here let's play this game and we're talking about two different things and we're like wait that could kind of go together oh I can see how like you know almost like creating a reality where those two things go together and haven't you noticed how Neptune does not like to be talked about in words. There's like what I always feel is I immediately go into a place of wordlessness when I start to think about Neptune.

And then when I start to try with the words, it feels, it's almost like I feel pushback from the archetype. Like this isn't supposed to be in words. And you know, as we record this, we're at a Neptune station. So it's it's all very Neptunian. Neptune was in my dreams last night. So there you are with the dreams. So Neptune is one of the big changes this year and who's the other guy who's involved with him.

Yeah. I say guy, but this is actually a planet that throughout history has been seen more as non-binary. Yeah. And a planet that has authority where there's energy of like not necessarily having the final word, but that kind of a firmer, much firmer boundary, that an energy of Neptune that would be watery, almost like a sea wall that's built so that the sea doesn't just like overflow onto the land,

like a planet that would be responsible for building a seawall. Yeah. Is that what they're called retaining wall, sea wall? Yeah, sea wall. Yeah. Yeah, that's just right for what's coming this year. This planet wants to be, wants you to take yourself seriously, take your life seriously.

Yeah, there's a gravity, a feeling of like the long-lasting impact of decisions that are made. or even words that are spoken of having a consideration around choices that are made and what's what is like what's funded what are you funding? Oh yeah. Through words choice like are you going to fund building a wall? Yeah. Or or it. it, you know, when, yeah, is this guessing game working?

Yeah, I mean, it's working for me. Okay. I don't know what it's like working for the listeners. But I think it is. I think it's so interesting to approach the archetypes in this way. Yeah. I almost feel like there's an asking for permission of this particular planet, of a feeling of like, you know, can I have the permission to spend my resources,

my time, my attention, my something on this particular. the thing that there's maybe a more of a feeling of like finiteness to go around and so needing to be more discerning about how those things are being spent and what are energies engaged in and like with the entertainment of Neptune of like what things are we entertaining and then with this planet when it comes to well you you know you can't watch two movies at the same time yeah you You simply can't because that's a natural limit. Which you could. And then you would really get into Neptune land of like which moves is which.

And am I awake? Am I asleep? Am I whatever? And so this other archetype that we're talking about tracking would say turn one of those off. And I think that's really interesting that that little scenario that you just described because I think it's a place we're going to find ourselves this year as these two planets with very different personalities come together in a very active sign. and we are going to be saying, no, I can watch two movies at the same time, and then we are going to find ourselves in a very confused space,

or a very creative space. So this planet wants to have firm words with you about what you can and can't do, and this planet wants you to work hard, not for the sake of hard work, but to build a legacy. whatever that means to you and to be able integrity i think is such an important keyword for this planet because this is what this planet demands is integrity again not for its own sake but because that's how we create things manifestation is another important quality of this planet and i think because

manifestation has become a word that has like a a pleasurable fluffy tone to it and sort of popular discourse that we don't think of this planet as being about manifestation, but this planet is about what it takes to bring an idea, Neptunean idea, something that's amorphous and dreamy and beautiful and perfect, and bring it into reality. And any artist or a person who has given birth or anybody who's made anything out of their own ideas knows how hard that is and how there are moments of frustration and moments of anger and moments of confronting reality and moments of having to stoically accept imperfection and the reality of what is. And who is our mystery guest?

Our mystery guest wants us to succeed through all of that. It's because our mystery guest would like us to succeed to the highest potential by getting serious and not having wiggle room for messing around. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Saturn. Thank you, Saturn. This could be the year 2025. Thank you, Saturn. Yeah, thank you, Saturn. When those, you know, when maybe some of those lessons that are about maturing and not having the two channels on or I'm trying to think of other, you know, other examples where it might just be like, cut it, cut it out and get seriously. Get real. And we're going to be this interesting place where we are at, we're like standing on the seawall and everything that that involves and the power and kind of danger, you know, where you live, if you go to the coast, there's these signs like, don't stand here. A big wave might just come out of the blue and take you away. And it happens a few times a year. And it's that water meets land.

Like it's this tidal infinite force is meeting this hard boundary. And that is going to be interesting. This is the conjunction of Saturn and Neptune, which is rare in itself. I think it's, I don't quote me on this, but it's like 40 or 50 years cycle for that conjunction. But I don't know an astrology who's found a date yet. in where we can track back to where Saturn meets Neptune in Ares, certainly not at the first degree of Ares. So this is, we talk about rare transits, but this one really is. It's extremely unusual. And why is that extra potent? Because zero Ares is where everything begins. Zero Ares is

the inception point. It's the very beginning of the zodiac. It's that, talk about mystery. It's that place of mystery. It's the big bang point. right it's like something from nothing something from nothing we've gone through this whole cycle and dissolved 29 Pisces where they're both sitting now they're about well they're not but they're going to be there soon 29 Pisces um the dissolving point where everything dissolves and then the next thing is where everything begins so that's where they meet so just even trying to hold those three ideas in your heart mind gives us a sense of how big this is.

So I guess we started talking about this because the bigness of it is hard to imagine, like, what are you guys talking about standing on a seawall? What does that mean for me? What the heck? So I think if I was going to recommend one thing to track, for sure we should all be looking at our Ares houses this year. What's in there? Where is it? And then as the moon transits aries, especially as the moon moves each month from Pisces to Ares, we're almost there, I think, just now as we're recording.

As the moon moves from Pisces to Ares each month, it's going to go through 29 Pisces, zero Ares. And notice that moment in the month because we have December, January, February, three or four, we have three or four of those before these two planets, ingress Ares. So we can really start to notice. Notice zero Ares in your own chart, zero cardinal. So the cardinal signs are Ares, Libra, Cancer, Capricorn. You have anything on or about 29 mutable or zero cardinal?

that's the place in your life where you're going to feel this, where you're going to be standing on a seawall. And if you want to know what that feels like outside of a big metaphor, notice what it feels like when the moon goes through that every month. My moon is at zero cancer, zero cardinal. So this all is going to be squaring my moon and my north node and Venus. So this is going to help me. Because I even, like as a professional astrologer, I'm looking at that and thinking, I don't know what that's going to feel like.

It would be so many different things. So I'm going to pay attention to that to when the moon makes that ingress each month. It's normally a kind of tricky point for me in the lunar cycle anyway. It's often I get migraines. And if I'm going to get a migraine, it's sometimes right in that zone. That movement from Pisces to Ares is really hard on my psyche. I also have natal Saturn and Pisces, so I'm really wondering how this is going to be. I'm not saying that I'm fearful, but I'm anticipatory for sure, and this pre-tracking is really going to help.

There's another thing that's happening, which is we have a cosmic helper in Mercury. And Mercury is having a fiery year this year. So every year he retrogrades in a particular element. So he's going to be guiding us through the firehouses of our chart all year. And that's another very trackable thing is Mercury and the Mercury Retrogrades and what's happening for you in your life. Because as much as we talk about, oh, the Mercury retrogrades and it's going to be a hassle, it's there for a reason and the reason is to help us refine our decision making.

I heard Jessica Lanyahu say, thank goodness for Mercury Retrogrades, because you know how far in the wrong direction you could go if you didn't have the correction of Mercury Retrogrades. So Mercury and the Moon are really there to help us. But if even that feels too complicated, like Mercury Retrogrades tracking, if that feels too big,

just watch that Zero Ares point with the Moon every month. And like you were saying April, just because we're saying it's going to feel a certain way, you'll be standing on a seawall. Doesn't mean that's how it's going to feel for you. And that's why tracking. So you know how it's going to feel and you don't have to take our word for it, how it might feel for us or what we're visioning may resonate with you. And you may have a really different experience, but we hope to help to point you to the place where you can have that experience. So you know, we have that in a small way. what it might feel like to have that in a big way. Does that make sense? That makes sense. I think because of not knowing the specific form, it will take what specific

form it will manifest as if we can build sort of the energetic awareness of what that movement feels like and how we navigate through that to do that, like you said, in a smaller way. I think about Aries, from Pisces to Ares, I think about like alarm clock going off and like a rude awakening of like I was just in the best dream. Or we could think about like I was just in this kind of nightmarish place. Yeah. Goodness for the wake up call. Yeah. And so looking for those kinds of things, I feel like Aries is very much a wake up call.

And for me, the fire signs have a kind of enthusiasm that I don't necessarily have in my. my own chart that has a lot of earth. And so there's a lot of tangibleness, but not the kind of fire to like get things, like get turn on the engine. Yeah. And that's spark. Yeah. That's the spark.

I love what you said about the big bang point. I mean, that, ooh, the dissolving that happens first. And then would you, for anyone who wants to circle in calendars, just that the conjunction time. So when? So the conjunction technically does not actually happen until 2026, but both planets will be cohabitating in that degree of zero Ares for big chunks of this coming year. So they're conjunct to the degree, but not yet to the arc minute. That won't happen until I think July of 2026. But again, as I was saying at the beginning with these outer planets, it's long.

long. These periods of the experience of it are long. So the ingress has happened. Saturn enters Aries sometime in mid-March. I can tell you exactly. And then Neptune enters Ares the last day of March. Saturn enters Aries. Oh, no, I'm sorry, I'm wrong about that. The 24th of May. and Neptune enters Ares on the 30th of March. So by the end of May we'll have both planets at zero Ares, starting with Neptune at the end of March and then met by Saturn at the end of May. Both of them will retrograde back into Pisces. Again, why I'm suggesting watch that.

interplay because they'll go back to 29 Pisces in their retrogrades this year, and then forward again and then next year finally meet up. Exactly. So we have time to be ready for the exact conjunction, but we will be feeling the conjunction already, even as we have been this year, the Piscian version of it. Right. I think they'll both be at 29 Pisces for a while too.

So we're in that space. I mean, that is the most liminal of liminal spaces. Yes. I mean, it's the most. And so having an awareness and an appreciation of, you know, we still need to go about making decisions in our life and feeling like moving forward and in whatever way. But this dance of, you know, making a decision in a dream space

and then waking up and it feels like a different reality and like which version are we choosing. It feels like... Which version is real? that's going to be a big question. Which version is real? Yeah. I refuse. My husband will send me like the me emojis that he makes of, you know, you make those of yourself on your phone or whatever and he'll like send those to me as reactions.

And I'm like, I want the real you. Give me the real you. Like we're giving into like making other versions of ourselves. And it can also be playful and fun. But underneath it, I feel like I, I want. what's real and even determining maybe for somebody the like screen emoji version is the real thing. And so that that choice around like what am I choosing as my the real thing that I'm drawn to? Yeah. To me it's paper and pencil. It's tracking in a way that's tangible and physical.

It's creative practices where we're engaging with our our hands and medium that feel really satisfying to each of us. whatever form that is. In tracking and being a part of and noticing in the natural world, what's coming to life and what's blooming and anchoring into life as expressed through the earth, all the forms over the seasons. Like, that's what I've been. That's real. That's real.

That feels like the most real. Thankfully, that that is still the thing that I can anchor myself into and through creative practice and what I want to share more of, especially as we're like, yeah, it feels like, again, with the ocean and the sea, how big is the wave going to be? Can I practice, you know, starting out on smaller waves so that I can maybe dive under big ones that come or come up for air or in whatever, in whatever way there's a training wheel kind of experience of the movement between Pisces and Aries and this coming together of two planets that couldn't be more different. And how are they supporting our success individually and collectively in the reality that we're like,

yes, the reality is the one where we live on Earth and there's thriving and clean air and water. Yeah. Some other reality that other people might be proposing. Oh, yeah. like flying to Mars. Yeah, no. If that's somebody's reality, then do that, but don't drag us along or use funds that can be applied to. Another direction in that conversation.

Yeah, that can get me very angry. Rightfully so. I want to highlight that question, though, that I think is so important for us to be sitting with this year, which is how do you personally distinguish or define? what is real. And to articulate that, like you might think that and think, well, of course, I know what's real, but even just the way that you so fully articulated and so beautifully articulated how you define what is real in your life, if we can all try that thought experiment of really following through and articulating how we define what is real. Not what is real for us,

but yeah, just playing with that and playing with that in conversation. And as I was listening to you, I was having two very different reactions or two very different. Again, it's like the Gemini Taurus in me. The Taurus in me is very clear about what's real. What's real is our body and our lived biological experience is the basis of all reality. my Gemini is like, well, really, how is a virtual version of you, not really you? And aren't there as a true Gemini is like, well, there are infinite iterations of me and who I am. It's I am a fractal self and I can be real in many, many different forms.

There's me and my dreams. There's me and my meditations. There's mimoji me. There's me, like, me for you is someone you have never met in person and embraced and yet we have this intimacy that has developed where you've probably not seen me from the shoulders down maybe before but that's real it's a very real embodied relationship so this is my inner inner conversation and again like we were joking before we started recording about the the torus gemini wars

and this is ongoing within me as jebani is like like, well, there are many versions of reality. And the tourist in me is like, no, that's dangerous thinking. Hell no. Reality is how we feed ourselves and love each other and care for each other and how we grow things and how we connect with our bodies and how we take care of others and their bodies and their well-being. So that's the conversation around that really big topic as it happens within me. Wow. And that is such a great place to land with the inquiry of where is that conversation inside of each of us? Yeah.

What are maybe the non-stallely opposing forces, but the conversation of the back and forth of am I expanding my reality? What is that expanding to include or what is that choosing to limit? You know, and for me, hard line with art that's AI, things that are AI generated. Probably a hard line for me too. Super hard. I'm, I'm. Even my Gemini agrees with that.

Like, no, that's not real. That's not art. It's something else, but it's not. It's not. Dangerous. Yeah. It's not feeding into a creative life that feels, anyway, I'm not going to go on about that. But it's just, it's become clear to me, and especially because there's environmental impacts behind all of the AI generated stuff that is unseen and so doesn't seem real. Like, how could that use so much water to generate this thing that's, needing to cool down the machines that are running that are so far from a reality where

it's right in our face of what we can see. That is such an interesting Saturn Neptune thing. And I know we need to close, but I just want to say this. I really want to say this because this is something that I've really, I've listened to one of my new teachers, Ali Aolomi, around this. And he talks about how we all think tech is an air sign thing, how tech is just something that happens in some sort of virtual space is like do not kid yourself tech is an earth thing for every virtual experience that we're having we're paying we're paying through unpaid labor we're paying through the rape of the environment where the earth is paying for it technology is and always has been earth based and we need to understand that connection i think there's some

sort of idealizing about Pluto and Aquarius and we're going into this wonderful time when we'll be in this virtual space where we're not having environmental impact because so much stuff can happen. And that is not, that is truly is an illusion because it has to pull from somewhere. Yeah. So thank you for bringing that up. I think that that's kind of a downer note to end things on. It's a reality of the times we're going into. And I think, you know, it may seem like we're going.

off in all directions in mercurial ways. But these are the questions and conversations that arise from that. From that Saturn Neptune interface, what's real and what isn't? What are the physical limitations, the biological limitations to the endless dreaming and expansion? Where do we sit as those things come together? As we meet Saturnian limits in the world around us, very real attorney and limits globally. What does that look like for our continued dreaming as humans? And how may it come through dreams some of those solutions or creative outside of the box ways of going about how are we going to do this human thing in a very new age and era?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, Bronwyn. This is... Thank you, April. Yeah. And thank you, listeners. Thank you all.

Yeah, thank you for going on this long, wild ride with us. Yeah. And may it serve the practice of tracking and just seeing all of the ways that what we gather through the self-study in relationship with cycles is a part of this conversation of understanding changes that are to come and an unknown where we don't know what form that's going to take. But we're noticing the small things in our. our life that are a part of it all and all interconnected and being, you know, being awake to those things, being awake in the dream space and being awake in what we are naming and calling and relating to as the reality that we're calling in into a very unknown future. Yeah.

And seeing the ways that the fear of the unknown, how that transforms through. a practice of being with the unknown and writing, moving through that in a way that there's creativity that comes into play because it's not fixed. The future is not fixed. Yeah. All right. Thank you everybody for joining us. And thank you so much, Bronwyn. This has been... Thank you. Such a inspiring conversation. Yes. Thank you. If you like this podcast, please subscribe, leave a review, share it with a friend, all the things to help it reach more people who will benefit in some meaningful way. I'm April and I'll be with you next time on Between the Moon.