Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - Alexander The Great Sex's Life

Episode Date: January 12, 2024

Was he as great in bed as he was at conquering the Persian empire?Whether he even had time for it, is another question. In today's episode, we're revisiting a conversation Kate had with History Hit's Tristan Hughes, host of our sister podcast The Ancients.What did young Alexander learn from his dad's charming ways? Did he take both male and female lovers? Let's go Betwixt the ancient sheets, to find out.This episode was edited by Tom Delargy. The producer was Stuart Beckwith and Sophie Gee. The senior producer was Charlotte Long.Don’t miss out on the best offer in history! Enjoy unlimited access to award-winning original documentaries that are released weekly and AD-FREE podcasts.Get a subscription for £1 for 3 months with code BETWIXTTHESHEETS1 sign up now for your 14-day free trial https://historyhit/subscription/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you want even more shocking and scandalous history? Like why the ancient Greek statues had such small manhoods? Or what went on behind closed doors in the Georgian era? We'll sign up to History Hit, where you can see me discover the scandalous side of history, as well as hundreds of hours of original documentaries, plus new releases every week, covering everything from prehistoric Scotland to the Treaty of Versailles.

Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Lovely betwixters, how are you? Oh, I'm so pleased that you have dropped by yet again. I have so much fun talking to you. I really do. But before you're allowed to listen to what's coming your way, you know what we have to do, you know the drill.

That's right, it is your fair do's warning. This is an adult podcast spoken by adults to other adults about adulty things in an adulty way, covering a range of adult subjects, and you should be an adult too. Well, I don't know about you, but I feel safer. Right, on with the show. But Twixters?

Fancy joining me for a bit of wedding crashing in the ancient world? Well, of course you do. The year is approximately 338 BC, and Philip II of Macedon is marrying his seventh wife, Cleopatra, not that Cleopatra, Cleopatra. Honestly, it causes no end of confusion. Oh, and it's toast time. Everybody, listen, listen. Up stands a potential successor to him, Attalus, who is Cleopatra's uncle and a general to Philip. Hmm, big mover and shaker. Controversially, he says to Philip,

may the gods give you legitimate children to succeed you to the throne of Macedon. That sounds quite nice on the surface, but that is some serious shade being thrown at the teenage Alexander, who is also in attendance, because his mother, Olympia, is not a Macedonian. See what he did there? Bitchy. The not-so-great Alexander is pretty pissed off, and I would be too. A fight breaks out. Always the mark of a great wedding in my book. In a matter of years, Philip is assassinated and Alexander will take the throne.

The boy will become a man. But what of this man's personal life? Let's see what we can find out. Just how great was he. What do you look for a man? Oh, money, of course. You're supposed to rise when an adult speaks to you. I make perfect copies of whatever my boss needs

by just turning it up and pushing the button. Yes, social talk. Courtesy does make a difference. Goodness, what beautiful, damn. Goodness has nothing to do with it, Terry. Hello, and welcome back to Betwixt the Sheeds, the History of Sex, Scandal and Society.

With me, Kate Lester. When someone mentions Alexander the Great, what is it that you think of? If you know your ancient history, maybe you're thinking of the multiple military victories he got, but if you're anything like me, you just think of Colin Farrell in a blonde wig.

I thought he looked very pretty as Alexander. I may be in the minority. But ignoring all of that, we're talking serious history here. We are making our way through a timeline of sexuality this year. And we are revisiting an episode from a little while back with the wonderful, the fabulous, the gorgeous Tristan Hughes, host of our history hit sister podcast, The Ancients, who is going to tell us all about Alexander de Great's sex life.

Seriously, though, Alexander the Great was a pretty busy boy, how he had time for shagging anything is absolutely beyond me. But if anyone can tell us how the young king had time for taking lovers in between taking on the Persian Empire, it's Tristan. And did you know that Alexander had male as well as female lovers? Oh yeah, yeah, equal opportunity sluttery going on over here. But was his libido any match for his fathers, who was apparently at it like a dog with two dicks?

I don't know if I can say that. But I am ready to find out if you are. And welcome to Petwix the Sheets. It's only flipping Tristan Hughes. How are you? Oh, hello, Kate. Long time coming, and I'm so looking forward to this. I'm very well, and it's lovely to, well,

we're lovely to talk all things that we're going to be talking about in this podcast. I'm so excited to have you here as the host of my, I want to say, sister podcast. I'm very happy. I'm very happy either way. We can call it a sister podcast. I'm going to make you a podcast again. I'm going to say it's the sister podcast.

the ancients. Congratulations, it's a girl. But we're not talking about a girl today, although we'll definitely be talking about some girls. We are talking about the one and only, Alexander the Great. We are indeed. Are you a bit of a fan boy?

Oh, you know, I've... Is that too far? My life is, in ancient history terms, obviously centred around his death and what happened following his death with the chaos that was, the success of wars and all of that. I find that so extraordinary.

And, you know, the legacy of this figure is seismic and what he did during his life. And then this mythical afterlife of Alexander that emerges, you know, these fantastical stories of Alexander became medieval bestsellers, like Arthurian tales later. There's stories where he goes to the bottom of the ocean in a submarine and goes flying in an ancient flying contraption in another one of these romances. It's great.

But of course, very flawed character as well. You know, was he great? Was he not? Genocide or maniac on one side. But on the other hand, he said his legacy, arguably he can still see today. So it's only right that we talk about him in today's podcast. Did he call himself the Great? Was he known that in his lifetime?

Did he introduce himself as, hi, I'm Alexander, Alexander the Great? No, I don't think so. I think that comes later, but I couldn't tell you exactly when it comes. It's very interesting, though, how you see some figures in ancient history, particularly after Alexander, who are called the Great in their lifetime, but they're not actually really that great. That's tough. Could you know?

It'd be awful. Try to introduce yourself at like an office party. It's like, hello, I'm Tristan the Great, and everyone kind of going, really really yeah hi living your own world I would be I mean we're talking about

his sex life as well I mean it'd be awful if you had to try and introduce yourself as you know hi I'm Kate the great and you know to a potential lover that's setting yourself up isn't it yeah exactly just like okay yeah

you've thrown the boat out there you've thrown down the gornlet you've got a lot to live up to and if it doesn't you know your reputation you know everyone's just going to be like well yeah it's in tatters

not really what was his full name what would he have introduced himself as well he was the From the Argeid dynasty, the Argeid line, the royal thing. King Alexander the third of Maston is, he was the third of his name for the Royal Argeid Mastonian line. But I couldn't tell you exactly if there were many epithets that he gave him. But of what were you seeing in the sources, you know, Alexandros, the third of his name and so on and so forth. That's still a pretty good title. I mean, if he's not quite great, that's still, that's impressive. He is an absolutely fascinating figure when you look at that. And it's also when you look at his family too is more than. just the man, the people that he's surrounded by in his family, whether it's his father, whether it's his warrior like half-sister, elder half-sister, Canane, who is just such an

incredible character, always full sister Cleopatra, even his half-brother Philip Haredais and his young son, Alexander, he's a man in a family, which is full of like incredible personalities. You know, we always kind of focus in on Alexander, but there's so much more to the story of ancient Macedon and his family than just that king. I suppose we should probably start by talking about his dad. I suppose it'd be fair to say Alexander the Great had a few daddy issues in the mix. Like what kind of world did Alexander grow up in and how did that, it's difficult, isn't it? But like, that impacted his sex life.

But like, what was his dad like? What was Alexander's childhood like? Well, it was so many parts of Alexander's story. You almost always have to go back to the story of his dad, who is King Philip II of Macedon, because he is integral in forming the Macedonian kingdom, in forming the Macedonian state that Alexander the Great inherits when Philip is assassinated in 336 BC. But Philip II of Macedon, he comes to the throne of Macedon in about 359 BC,

and at that time, Macedon is very much on the edges of the Greek world. It's on the brink of chaos. It's surrounded by enemies, Thracians, Pyonians, Illyrians. And what Philip does during his reign through a series of different initiatives is he transforms Macedon almost from this backwater into the dominant power in the Central Mediterranean. Oh, well done, Phil. Well done, Phil, indeed. You know, he's normally overlooked compared to Alexander the Great, but I love this sometimes this debate about who was more important, Philip or Alexander.

Who was the greater? Exactly. And I think quite a lot of people now going on the side of Philip. But Philip, he had quite a lot of, well, I'm not going to say vices, but things that the ancient sources highlight in the literature, which seems to be very much contrasted with Alexander. And one way he's, for instance, is his sex life. Philip, he's polygamous.

He has several wives during the course of his reign, but they are all as a result of, normally at the end of wars, there was a joke that Philip Marion had a new wife after every war he fought because there was this diplomatic part in his marriages, in the fact that it helped him to cement to increase Macedon's power. So all these various different ways in which he's able to increase Macedon's power, he reforms the army, he revolutionizes the army with the Macedonian phalanx, this central infantry, tactical formation that his Macedonian soldiers centre around. New heavy cavalry reforms the logistics train of this all. But another way he does it is through diplomatic marriages.

And as mentioned, by the end of his reign, according to the sources, he has some seven marriages. He has several children by different wives. One of them, of course, is Alexander's mother, Olympias, who has Alexander as her son, but also a daughter called Cleopatra, who's Alexander's only full sister. But there are several others as well. but it's very interesting that in the ancient world, there are only two of his seven wives who are Macedonian. The other five are one's a Thracian or a member of the Getai royal family.

Two are Thessalian. One, Alexander's mother Olympias is Melossian. I don't even know where Melostia is. Well, it's a funny one because if you type in Melosia today, you'll get that little, I'm not going to call it a kingdom or something, but I think someone's tried to form his own little kind of independent place in the centre of the USA. But Melosia is now in northwest,

Greece, and it's more commonly known as part of Epirus, this ancient region of Epirus, which today covers southern Albania and northwest Greece. But Alexander, he's born into a world where his father, King Philip II, he has several marriages. There is no settled succession in the Macedonian royal family. So even though Alexander, we now think of him as the heir of Philip, there was no guarantee that that was going to happen before Philip's assassination in 338 BC. He has an elder brother, He has sisters as well. Court intrigue, factional strife is rife at the court of Philip II in the Macedonian Royal Court.

And part of that is to do with Philip's sex life. This is like a Jerry Springer nightmare this is, isn't it? He's got so many wives and so many children, and every time he has a war, he gets a wife at the end of it, like a bizarre trophy or a consolation prize in her case. So there's loads of kids. And was he faithful to his seven wives? Oh, no, absolutely not. No, we definitely know that. We know so he married there, but it wasn't looked down upon for Philip to have courtisans as well, but also male lovers too. Oh, male lovers. Now that's interesting. Okay, dook. All right, tell me about that.

So this is interesting with Philip II of Macedon. With ancient Greek culture and with the Macedonian elite at this time with Philip the second, there seems to be very much this from the sources. It's a very prickly topic to talk about. It's a horrid topic, but it's the ancient Greek pederastity, which you do see. with Sparta, Athens, and it continues into the late 4th century at the time of Philip the 2nd of Macedon in Macedonia. And we get this idea of an older man and a younger adolescent boy who's known as the beloved. And we hear in the sources of Philip the 2 having at least two, potentially three of these figures who we know of by name, potentially more, one of whom is actually involved in his assassination, which occurs in 338 BC. Oh dear. I mean, There are a few examples to highlight. There are two figures called Pausanias who I'll get to,

but another figure I find quite interesting. He's only mentioned in one of the sources as being a catamite of Philip the 2nd, which is a young man also called Alexander. Not to be confused with Philip's son, Alexander, who had gone to be Alexander III of Macedon, Alexander the Great. They need to find some new names for a start. Well, the amount of Cleopatra's and Alexanders and Perthus is at this time, Kate, is absolutely mad. But in one source, which is Justin, he talks about this other figure called

Alexander, who comes to the Royal Court of Macedon as a hostage. Right. Because Alexander is a member of the Melossian royal family. He's the brother of Olympias who marries Philip. Oh, this is getting very complicated. Right. It's very, yes. He must have had post-it notes everywhere.

Philip of Macedon trying desperately to work out who he's knobbed the night before, who's related to who. Which international incident am I going to, right, okay. So this is Alexander from... This is another one. Right. Because he's the brother of Olympias, who he marries, who is the mother of Alexander the Great. The one played by Angelina Jolie in the film.

The one played by Angelina Jolie in the film, absolutely. Right. But he grows up at the Royal Court of Macedon, and he receives education there, and then he'll later go back and be reinstated as the new king of this kingdom to the south-west of Macedon. But in Justin, he says that Alexander also becomes the beloved of Philip. once he's at the roll court in Macedon. It's of quite a fucked up practice, isn't it, really? And by our own standards, you can't feel it's anything other than pederasty,

but it was very common across the ancient world, this idea that a young boy would somehow be like apprenticed to an older man who would teach him lots of important things, and it would be a sexual relationship. It seems absolutely bonkers to our modern eyes, doesn't it? But not only was it fine, it was aspirational as well. It really is. And there is examples of it, as we've just mentioned,

you know, at the court of Philip the second, among the Macedonian elites at that time, and down into the time of Alexander the Great 2, because we know that he had at least one younger male lover who actually wasn't a Macedonian, a Persian unit called Begoas. But as you say, really, for our mind today, it's horrible. It's really nasty to think about. But as you say, this was a part of this culture that there was. And we have to talk about it, especially if we're talking about Philip at the start here. Yeah.

How young are we talking here? Oh, goodness. Well, in the example of Philip, let's take the case of Palsanius or Alexander. Parasanius one, we're told, is a page at the Macedonian royal court, so almost certainly a teenager. Right. Alexander of Melosia, he's also very much a boy when he comes to the Royal Court of Macedon, and he's reinstated as the king of Melosia in around 342, 341 BC. So he spends 10, more than 10 years at the court of Philip II of Macedon,

and that is during his teenage years too. So I can think we can imagine around that age. They're teenagers. I've often, do you think that this is because, and this is sort of a theory that I've got, and I might be really wrong, that this practice arose because there was actually quite a lot of shame in just having a male lover of your age, because there's something implied in taking the quote unquote feminine role, that there wasn't as much, if you were what we would now call the top in vernacular, the one doing the penetrating, you were manly and fine, but there's still quite, there was still quite a lot of shame attached to being sort of the feminine role. And this idea of it being a younger, man because they aren't past puberty and they aren't, you know, fully grown men. Does that play into it, or have I just imagine that? I think so. No, I think absolutely because he said the older man known as like the pursuer of the irasces and the younger adolescent boy, like the pursued the Oramenos. And there is very much that idea, as you say, you know, the masculine and the feminine there. But it is very

interesting also this idea of actually a male lover, your age, the prickly topic of Alexander and Hefeistian, greatly debated whether they were lovers or not. But we do, in the story of Alexander the great. With this conspiracy called the Royal Page's conspiracy, we have evidence of soldiers, elite Macedonian figures, these pages, basically a young Macedonian officer school for like these teenagers, learning to be officers, of them having sexual relations with another young man from the pages that two of them become lovers. We hear about that a few times in this great conspiracy of these. We know certain figures. So that is quite interesting of you there having lovers your same age in a military circle. Right.

Okay, so we've got this very bizarre and convoluted family life that is great. I mean, Christmas must have been a nightmare in that family. It must have cost everyone a fortune. I'm not sure what their criminal Christmas would have been back there, but it's very, very interesting because you do see, especially during the reign of Philip II, as mentioned, there is no settled succession. So you see this rival factions emerging at court. You see Olympias Alexander's mother playing a prominence role.

You have, before the assassination of Philip the. second when he marries his seventh and final wife, this woman called Cleopatra, another Cleopatra, who is like from the Macedonian heartlands, Macedonian noble family. They're at the wedding feast, where they're celebrating the marriage of Philip to Cleopatra. And Cleopatra's uncle makes a toast. Alexander the Great is there. He is there reclining. He is at the wedding feast. And Atalus, basically, he stands up and he says, may the gods give you brilliant children, you know, legitimate children to succeed you to the throne of Macedon. And this is evidently, this is shot at Alexander the Great

and the fact that his mother Olympias isn't a Macedonian. And Alexander doesn't react well to this. He stands up, you know, there's a shouting match. You know, he's basically accusing Atalus of accusing him of not being Philip's successor, of not being, you know, a legitimate successor to Philip. It results in him going in exile for a bit. And so you have these various stories around the time just before Philip the second assassinated, which once again emphasises how to those around Philip and potentially to Philip himself,

it's not very certain that Alexander is going to be Philip's successor. Okay. It's only clear that that happens after Philip's assassination and Alexander assumes the kingship straight away and then removes potential rivals. Who bumped him off? Do we know that? So who bumped Philip the second off? That goes back to the figure of Palsanias, who is another of his male lovers. Right. So the story behind that is Palsanius. according to the sources, he's a royal page, he's a younger man at the quarter maston,

he had been the lover, the beloved of Philip II. But at a later date, Philip the second decides to basically shun Palsanius and take another male lover also called Palsanius. So that's Palsanias too. Oh, that's just salt in the wound, isn't it? Yeah, it's a really interesting story that you get because Palsanius, you know, he's obviously probably angry of Philip about that. but then at that royal wedding ceremony feast where Attalus derides Alexander to his face in front of Alexander,

what also happens that night, according to the sources, is that Attalus instigates a gang rape of Palsanius one, who's already been shunned by Philip by other elite Macedonian figures at that feast. Oh, that's grim. And Palsanius afterwards, he's a noble Macedonian. He is still actually one of the, he is a leading. soldier in Philip's army. He demands justice for how Attalus has treated him, for how these people have treated him at the wedding feast. But Philip, because Attalus is his new bride's uncle, doesn't do anything about it. And so Palsanius, the resentment grows and grows and grows. Potentially, he is

working with Olympias, the mother of Alexander the Great, who is also keen to ensure that Alexander is the successor. What happens is that a couple of years later, during this great, another marriage, ceremony. Philip is entering the theatre at Egy in the heartlands of Macedon and Pausanius is there. He greets him and he assassinations Philip. Palsanius is killed in the aftermath. But there you go. There's a kind of a horrible love story that is attached to the death of Philip the second horrifically there. Well, fuck around and find out, Phil. That's... I feel very sorry for... What was it, Palsaninius? Palsanius, yes. And that's the story that comes over again and again and again. in regards to the assassination of Philip the second.

Now, because Palsanius dies in the aftermath, it's always kind of speculated as to who he was helped by in the killing of Philip the second. Hence why Olympias's name is sometimes associated. And she would have motive because it would to secure Alexander as the successor. But Alexander would also have motive too. So that's why those two names are always associated with potentially aiding Palsanias, with irking him on, with giving him potential support to assassinate Philip the second.

So his dad gets bumped off And Alexander pretty much just goes That's mine The throne's mine So it's kind of like a coup And then he becomes king But do we have any idea Of what his sex life was like

At the time Obviously not the time he was killing everyone He'd have been pretty preoccupied At that point How old is he? Well when Alexander comes to the throne Late well he's born in about 356

And Philip II is assassinated In 336 So he's about 20 years old When he comes to the throne He dies at the age of 32 I know I know Just imagine a 20-year-old Tristan or a 20-year-old Kate's assuming control of an ancient kingdom.

Holy shit. So he comes to the throne and, as mentioned, he dies age 32, so only 13 years later. But in that time, you know, when he comes to the throne, one thing of Alexander's sex life is that we don't hear that much of it compared to his other things, compared to, for instance, his military achievements, this obsession with becoming the greatest, idolizing his homeric heroes of old and besting them. idolising demigods like Hercules and getting further in the world, going beyond them, surpassing them. He was engrossed by that. But this isn't suggest that Alexander

didn't have that much interest in sex at all, although this is sometimes said by later sources. I have heard that about him, actually. People just kind of go, no, he wasn't interested in it. I don't think that's the case. I mean, there's some great stories about that, but that's one line of thought

as to why his sex life is nowhere near as promiscuous as his father, King Philip. Slotty. There we go. He bids that, Philip, honestly. So much, remember. There we go. I love it.

I'm loving this so much, Kate. But what is so interesting is that, what is emphasizing the source again and again is this idea of his sexual suffraisonate, his sexual moderation that we see. Okay. But we do, nevertheless, we have several examples surviving from the many sources that's about Alexander the grade of him with several different sexual partners. But before he really assumes the throne, before he begins his Persian conquest, goes east and so on and so forth, is around a cortisanne called Kalexena, sometimes called Kambaspe.

At Pancaste, sometimes the names differes in some of the sources. I think it's all really focused around one Fasalian woman. Okay. A Fasalian cortisan called Calixena, who was renowned as one of the most beautiful women in the Greek world at the time. Wow. And the story around this, it preserved in a few of the sources. Take it with a pinch of salt.

Okay. But it's a great story nonetheless. And I think regardless, we can presume that Calaxena, was an actual person who was renowned at the time. But the story goes that Philip and Olympias, you know, the mum and dad of Alexander the Great, are worried that Alexander's not interested in sex, sex with a woman at least.

So basically, they hire Kalexina, and they basically beg her to have sex with Alexander. And then apparently in one source, Olympias begs Alexander, please have sex with Kalexana. Please. Well, you're in your late teens now. You must be 18, 9, something like that. Well, probably younger, to be honest.

But she's begging Alexander to have sex. sex with Kalexina. And apparently Alexander does so reluctantly. And for the sources that do have this story, it's like Alexander loses virginity to this Salian, cortisans, Caligina. But it is very interesting because that's really the only story we have of Alexander, having a female lover before he ascends the throne, before he begins his Persian conquest. Because, you know, it's so interesting with him that we have that doth of stories relating to it. And following that, I mean, He stays a bachelor for most of his life following that. But that's not to say he doesn't have any sexual escapades, should we say.

I'll be back with Tristan and Alexander after this short break. He was a busy boy, wasn't it? He was focused. He was global domination. Will deplete your time for pursuing lovers, I suppose. But that is an interesting story that keeps coming up about him, was just that he was just, no, not that first. Well, exactly.

It's so interesting. And I think there are sometimes political reasons why he certainly, for instance, he doesn't marry or have sex with certain Persian princesses early on his reign than he perhaps could have done and why he does that later all to do with his relationship with the Macedonian soldiers, his dependence on the Macedonian soldiers. But there are other cases where it is, you know,

it is just really interesting. I mean, if we go back to Alexander before he begins his conquest of the Persian Empire, there are two of his senior agitans, much older than he is, like close allies of his father, Philip the second, these two figures called Parmenion and Antipater. And, you know, they are senior, they are veteran, they know the scene of the Macedonian royal family of court politics, as does Alexander.

But they basically say, Alexander, before you begin this conquest of the Persian Empire, you know, this is pretty dangerous stuff, particularly with your leadership style, where you're going to be leading from the front in all of your battles. You should probably, you know, maybe just hold back for a few years. Mary, have an air. Make sure you have an air. And then you can go wild. Then let's go and campaign and conquer the Persian Empire. Alexander has none of that. He's just like, no, I'm going straight away and to conquer the Persian Empire. So you do see these stories. by these, I hate to say perhaps like, more conservative lower sea members of the Macedonian elites, talking to him again and again and again, basically advising Alexander to have sex more, basically,

following in the footsteps of Philip and Olympias, but Alexander is always very much determined to do what he wants to do, and he's engrossed by this desire to surpass his Homeric heroes of old from the Iliad and these demigods like Heracles. Do you think, and this isn't a fair question, we're going to ask it anyway, do you think he was gay? This is like the thing that hangs over Alexander the Great like all the time, like was he bisexual, was he asexual, was he this?

And I know we can never actually get a proper answer to that. But for your money, what was going on? It was very difficult to say, obviously, this dichotomy that we have between homosexual and heterosexual today didn't exist in the ancient Greek world and the tradition. Didn't exist, very important to know, yes. Which is good to know, first off, you know, can I clear my back on that? But it's very interesting, if we put a modern label on it today, he was almost certainly bisexual in the fact that we know that he had a female lover

and we know that he had at least one male lover in the figure of Begoas, this eunuch. And once again, I think personally, more likely than not, that he and Hefeistian, his closest friend also had a sexual relationship as well. Like how long that lasted and that endured as a sexual relationship. It was evidently stronger than that. They were just really close friends anyway. We can never know how long it lasted. But I think with Hefeistian, I absolutely do.

So I think the evidence from the literature going really, have his literature for this stuff, is there that he, you know, he like men, he like women too. That's fascinating. And we've got to, like, I suppose, remember that when we talk about famous people or extraordinary people throughout history, we almost want them to have something interesting, some sexual quirk about them. It's really boring if it's just like, no, he just, he loved his wife and they had sex in the missionary position once a week with the lights out. Like, we want there to be something, you know, like, we want them to have like a fleet of Kate,

Kate, trust me. Like, especially of Alexander. We haven't got to the Amazon story yet. This amazing. Oh, God, right. Okay, okay. Get to the Amazon story. Come on, come on,

because it's a wonderful story. It is preserved, actually, in a couple of our Alexander historians like Quintus Curtis, Rufus. We'll sort of the fact from the fiction later, but let's just tell the stories it is, first of all,

because it is great. So this is a few years into Alexander's campaigns conquest against the Persian Empire. He's defeated the Persian King Darias III at a couple of set battles. In fact, DeRias the third has just been murdered by one of his subordinates.

That's all going on, in it? Yeah, and it's a brilliant, brutal, horrific, but extraordinary story. And there's so many different parts, but we're focusing on this part today, aren't we? So let's delve into it. So Alexander, at this time, he is just southeast of what is now the Caspian Sea in this region called Hyrcania. And apparently, in a couple of our sources, it is then that the Queen of the Amazons, a woman called Thalestris, approaches the camp of Alexander and requests an audience. with Alexander and she's got the classic Amazon look.

She's got one of her breasts quarter rides. She's got spears. She's riding on horseback. The breast quarterized so she can bring the jawstring of her bow back to fire fine. Fuck, love? Just a sports club. Jesus Christ. Hoof. So she's cut her boob off.

That would make an impression. Well, yeah. And so she approaches Alexander and her kingdom supposedly lies in the area from the sources. It says ancient cult. So really modern day, Georgia between the Black Sea and the capital. Aspian Sea just below the Caucasus. And she approaches Alexander, and it basically goes along the lines of,

Alexander, you are evidently the greatest man in the world from what you've done. I'm evidently the greatest woman in the world. We should have sex. And because of that, from our, you know, our offspring, whatever child we have will evidently be like a superhuman. Wow. It will be like the greatest child that has ever been. And in a couple of the sources, Alexander is a bit. It kind of says, okay, but he doesn't seem, you know, that interest.

In other ones, he's very excited and he's very keen to it. and they have sex for 13 days. Think of the Sestitis. That's ridiculous. No one's having sex for 13 days. I know. It's a fantastic story that is preserved in a couple of sorts of, I said, I meant it's like Quintus Curtis Rufus

from the time which highlight this meeting of Alexander the Great with this Amazonian queen. After 13 days, Thelestrius, she feels like they've probably conceived by then. So she heads back to her kingdom. She parts ways with Alexander. Alexander supposedly offers, you know, she's come along, you know, come stay with us for a bit longer. Come and campaign with us.

She says, nope, no, I'm off. I'm done. I'm done. If it's a daughter, she stays with me in the kingdom of the Amazons, in the Queensland of the Amazons. If it's a son, I will send a son to you, and he will rejoin you in your camp, you know, later on during the campaigns.

And we never hear anything else about the story whatsoever, but it's a fascinating, fantastical story that becomes associated with Alexander so quickly. Really quickly, in fact, because this is where you have to sort of the fact from the fiction. Almost certainly this is fictitious. is a fantastical story, but it's applied on Alexander's story almost immediately, because one of Alexander's adjutants is a man called Lycemicus.

He would go on later to become the king of a kingdom in Monde, Bulgaria, around the region of ancient Thrace. And according to, in one of the sources, it mentions how basically Lycemicus, his court historian is retelling this story of Alexander meeting the Amazonian queen. And Lycemicus supposedly jokes when he hears his story, where was I at this point? because he was campaigning with Alexander. So he kind of takes the piss out of it because, you know,

they all kind of know that this is absolute nonsense and this has been fabricated. But it is an amazing story that is quickly added to Alexander's sex life story. There's a similar-ish story in the epic of Gilgamesh, a really early one, that the harlot sham hat was sent to tame the wild man, Incadu, and they had sex for seven days and seven nights. And then when they'd finished, he was no longer wild, and he couldn't talk to animals anymore.

Right. How interesting. So I don't know. Like, I wouldn't recommend anyone having sex for this prolonged amount of time unless you've got snacks and you're well hydrated. Mind you, he's the king, isn't he?

He probably had snacks just brought in. But maybe, like, the idea of, like, epic love-making feats with these really impressive people, maybe it crops up in other traditions. Well, I wonder. I mean, I've never heard that epic of Gilgamesh story. You know, that's seven days,

and this is 13 days. I think the 13 days part of it is the most extraordinary part of this fantastical story in itself. But as soon as Alexander dies, he becomes this divine figure. You know, his funeral carriage is shaped as a mini temple on wheels. Wow. You know, he wants to be buried supposedly at the Oracle of Zeus,

who he was now saying was his father, you know, declared the son of Zeus and so on and so forth. So, you know, this idea, you know, this extraordinary idea may well be linked to these divine stories attached to Alexander, which just get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger. I mentioned, you know, the submarine and the flying contraption much later on medieval times, you know, they just evolve and evolve and evolve over the centuries. So actually, with the whole story of Alexander, it is sometimes very difficult to sort fact from fiction because so much of it is mythologised.

I don't think anyone can have sex for 13 days. I'm just going to put that out there. Tantra Shantra, Shantra. No one's having sex for 13 days. But you're going to have to tell me about Begoa? Okay. Because he's a really interesting figure. And whether or not Amazons with quarterized boobs were real,

he seems to be real, doesn't he bego? He does. And it's interesting because he is explicitly, mentioned as a lover of Alexander. This is something that Feistin is never mentioned explicitly in the sources as a lover of Alexander. He's always just known as a close friend, but I think we can presume that if Vicodian was a lover when you look at all the evidence. I would put my money on that. I think that they were in love. It's an interesting story with Begois, because actually we don't hear that much about him. We know a little bit from the Greek sources. I mean, I don't

know if the Persian version says more about him, but we know that he was a eunuch of King Darius III, the great king of Persia and that he was also a lover of King to Raius III, which also, if we could believe the Greek sources on this, suggest something about the Persian Role King as well, this idea of a younger male lover, also there with King to Rias III. It's an interesting story where Begoas falls into Alexander's hands. He gets a lot of political influence at court. There's one case where Begoas is instrumental in pleading the case of a captured Persian official governor called Nabazzanais, who had been involved.

I think he was involved actually in the murder. of Darius III, or he betrayed Darius III. So Alexander doesn't think very highly of him, but he is spared because of the intervention of Begoas. So Begoas was the lover of Darius III, becomes the lover of Alexander the Great. We hear of a couple of stories where he is involved, which is, for instance, the sparing of this Persian official.

And we hear later, apparently, as well, at a ceremony of some kind, apparently the Macedonian soldiers, they see Alexander with Begoas, and they haul out in celebration that Alexander give Begoas a kiss. which he does. But we don't hear that much. Oh, with tongues?

I'm afraid I don't have that information to hand. Alexander's several wives as well. He has a couple of, not mistresses, but female lovers, women he has sex with, who he doesn't marry. Barcene's a fascinating example. They have an illegitimate childhood they call Heracles, but Heracles doesn't fare well after Alexander's death. Neither does Barcine.

He marries a few times, all diplomatically, it seems, Roxanne in the Far East, then two Persian princesses, neither of whom survived long after Alexander's death either. How many people did he marry? He only marries three. Oh, well. Yeah, compared to his father, Philip II. That's nothing.

That's less than half. But he marries three. And they're all diplomatic. They're all with Asian elites, noble women or princesses. Right. Two daughters of Darius, one daughter of a prominent chieftain in what is modern-day Uzbekistan to kind of try and pacify that area. So it's a fascinating example because you have those.

marriages which are evidently diplomatic, there is only one child conceived from the marriages before he dies, which is the infant who's also called Alexander, Alexander IV, who like Philip Herodias following Alexander's death is very much controlled by the successes, by the generals, who come to the fourth following Alexander's death. So it's a fascinating example of that. But Roxana, you know, her story following Alexander's death, she grows up in Mondea's Bekistan. She goes back to Babylon. She's involved. in the murder of her rival brides, potentially, almost certainly to make sure that her son becomes a successor.

That's ruthless, isn't it? It's the Macedonian Game of Thrones. That's Bridezilla. It was kind of Bridezilla in that case. But, you know, she, compared to what the others do, following Alexander's death, the horrific stuff that they got up to, the murders of people.

Is it like an absolute bun fight, just that everyone loses their shit completely? Everyone lose their shit. Everyone's trying to gain some authority, some power, some legitimacy in this really unstable, new post-Alexander world. And you know, Alexander the Great's death is that one of the most seismic events that's ever happened in the ancient world when it happens, because people have no clue what's going to happen next, really. And then with Alexander's empire, former brothers in arms become the most hated of enemies. You have some horrific murders taking place of members of Alexander's family, some of his wives, his mother Olympias is a later murder, but she's also involved in the murder of other figures too. You have his half-sister who's murdered. You have his full sister who's murdered. Only one sister of Alexander the Great. survives, a half sister called Thessaloniki. You have Alexander's child killed. You have his illegitimate

child. Heracles also killed. It is the generals who take power following Alexander's death. They ultimately go as far as killing Alexander's successes, his family members. Holy fat. To ensure that they retain power. It is horrific. Yeah. I suppose it's because Alexander, like, you know, it's much better than me, but Alexander the Great, like he's done something that never been done before. He conquered what was at the time the known world and then he ups and dies at 32 and it's like, well now what the fuck do we do? Well, I mean, that's the thing. And it's so interesting because because he marries late, arguably late in his reign and, you know, the only legitimate child from his wife that he has is unborn at the time that he dies. There's no clear successor.

There's no clear air. That results in a lot of turmoil straight away. But it's kind of in a way, Alexander's own fault for nots. You know, the advice of his old guard before he left to campaign against the Persian Empire, marry, have an air before you go. Sort of shit out. Even though there's never any settled succession

in Macedonian politics, royal family at that time, that would have at least helped to some regard, potentially. But he marries late for several reasons. Once again, we always get this idea of sexual moderation, that he was just so obsessed

with being better than his heroic semi-mythical idols and Heracles and the like, that he was obsessed with, that and less focused on what if he died, what would happen next? And ultimately, that results in the chaos that it engulfs his empire almost immediately following his death. I always feel sorry for there must be people in these families who are like, they've no interest in this. They don't want to be king or queen or whatever it is. They just want to live in their house and eat sandwiches

and just do a bit of gardening. But just because they are part of this, they're always at risk. And they might want nothing to do with it at all. And there's just some. guard somewhere plotting that because you're Alexander's third cousin twice removed, who once had sex with one of his mates, that you are now a target. Yeah, because you could be used as a figurehead by a rival claimant to whoever I am in control of Macedonia or whatever, and they could use you to try and garner support amongst the populace who, you know, love Alexander or whatever, and then you could topple me. So I see you potentially as a threat.

Absolutely brutal. Alexander saw rivals to him, like his cousin Amintas, as soon as he comes to the throne, gets rid of him. Olympias sees, it's almost certainly Olympias involved in it, the murders Philip's last wife, Cleopatra and her infant daughter, even her infant daughter is not spared, which really does seem pretty brutal and over the top, but they aren't removed as well. Because there's this idea, and I think actually it's very true for the female relatives of Alexander's family, particularly following Alexander's death, where if they don't act first, they are going to be used by these generals trying to seek power post-Alexander the Great

because one of the key ways to kind of legitimise yourself as a ruler would be by marrying into the family of Alexander the Great, which several do try to do. So you see in many cases like Canane, this warrior Amazon figure, gathers an army. She's half a Lyrian. She's very much a bellicose, an incredible warrior princess, really respected amongst Macedonian soldiers.

She gathers an army to try and put her teenage daughter on the Macedonian throne to secure herself and her daughter in this unstable post-Alexander. world by marrying her to the new king, Philip Aradais the third. So she takes actions into her own hands before someone thinks I should marry Canane or whoever. God, you'd have to, wouldn't you? Yeah. So it's very much it's for women in particular Olympias and Cleopatra do this as well.

Following Alexander's death, they form an extraordinary mother-daughter team. They try to attach themselves to a particular general or to the king before they are used. Some people would always kind of portray this. And I think it's completely wrong. I think, well, I think it's wrong to an extent that, you know, all these women are, they're just power hungry, they just want to be the voices behind the thrones, the real influence. It's all to do with safety and security in this unstable time because if they didn't act, they were going to be used by someone else. Yeah, or bumped off. Or bumped off, exactly. So Alexander's sex life, and then the successes is sex life as well when it comes to Alexander's family members is, it's really interesting.

I know we've only just scratched the surface, but I hope you've got an idea of the complete turmoil. Oh, Kate, that there is. That is, I mean, you know, I thought that things got messy with Tinder or something, but this is like, this is just a whole other level of chaos. My final question, just because I want to know now, what happened to Begoas and Hefeistian? Like the ones that Alexander probably did love. Did they get out of this, all right? Did they manage to retire somewhere?

Nice retirement home for Unix? So I can answer the Hefeistian question, absolutely. The Begoas question, someone probably told me that there is a source which mentions what happens to Begois. memory, I do not know what happens to Begoas. It kind of fades out of existence, really, from my knowledge. With Hefeistin, it's much clearer because Hefeistin dies before Alexander the Great. And one of the great cases that is kind of used to potentially suggest, you know, well, evidently shows that they were very, very close friends. Some have used it to emphasize how Alexander

was also a lover of their lovers, is the fact that when Hefeistin dies in Ekbatana, which is northern Iran today, south of the Caucasus mountains, northwest Iran. When he dies in 3-24 BC, the level of grief by Alexander is unprecedented. It's crazy. Like he basically goes mad. He grieves for so long about the death of a feisty. And there are some people who went talking about the death of Alexander the Great, there are several different parts that cause Alexander's death, that aren't poison.

It's definitely not poison. So it might be his excessive drinking. It might be the war wounds that he suffered. He suffered several severe war wounds. over the course of his campaign, but another factor in his early death may well have been the successive grief, may well have been grief for the loss of Hefeitschen. That is one potential suggestion surrounding a potential cause of Alexander the Great's death. Woken heart. He constructs this massive funeral pyre for Hefeiastin in Ekbatana.

And I know that also in one of the sources, when following Alexander's death, they find these last plans of Alexander way he had these, fantastical is the wrong word, but extra, extraordinary ideas for the future, like creating a road that linked the eastern Mediterranean to the pillars of Hercules to the Straits of Gibraltar, all these port towns, you know, creating a massive 1,000 plus ship fleets in the eastern Mediterranean, creating a tomb for his father, Philip II, bigger than the largest building of the time, the great pyramids of Giza. But another thing supposedly was to create a great funeral monument for Hephaeustian as well, which would have cost so much money.

So we know how if Feistian dies, he dies before Alexander the Great's of illness, if I remember correctly, in 324 BC. And what we see from that, for result of that, is incredible grief from Alexander. So you can say without doubt that they were the closest of friends. Oh, they were very, very close. And I think it's, yeah, as you say, I think it's more than likely that, if not for all the time, at least for a part of their time, that they were lovers to. Yeah. I think, oh, Alexander. Tristan, you have been amazing to talk to today.

I could have kept going at this for hours and hours. We can next time. The History Hit, you know, get together. We're just going to keep talking. We'll just have Alexander the messy bitch part two. Oh, my days. And then we can keep going. If people want to know more about you and they should, where can they find you?

Well, you can find me. I have on social media. I do social media once in a while on Twitter and Instagram, but of course the main thing you can find me on is as the host of the ancients podcast. in the history hit stable alongside the shining lights that are but twixt the sheets and the several others that we have there

and you can listen we do two episodes a week released our mission is just to share these incredible stories from ancient history with as many people as possible and long may that continue long may it continue Tristan thank you so much

you've been an absolute legend Kate's absolute pleasure and thank you thank you for listening and thank you so much to Tristan for joining me how much fun was he and if you like what you heard

please don't forget to like, review and follow along wherever it is that you'd get your podcasts. And if you'd like us to explore a subject or maybe you'd just fancy saying hello, then you can email us at betwixt at historyhit.com. We have got episodes on everything from the real outlander to the sex life of Rabby Burns, all coming your way.

This podcast was edited by Tom Delagie and produced by Sophie G and Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Charlotte Long. Join me again Betwixt the Sheeds, The History of Sex scandal in society, a podcast by History Hit. This podcast contains music from Epidemic Sound.