Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - How Scandalous Were Masquerade Balls?

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

Faces covered, identities unknown - masquerade balls sound like a place of anonymity and, therefore, SCANDAL.But how true is this in the 18th Century? Could people sneak in unrecognised like they do in Bridgerton? And how much would people be misbehaving inside?Kate is joined for this particular dance by Dr Meghan Kobza, author of 'Masquerade: Unmasking Georgian London'.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.Betwixt the Sheets: History of Sex, Scandal & Society is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Do you want even more shocking and scandalous history? Like why the ancient Greek statues had such small manhoods? Or what went on behind closed doors in the Georgian era? We'll sign up to History Hit, where you can see me discover the scandalous side of history, as well as hundreds of hours of original documentaries, plus new releases every week, covering everything from prehistoric Scotland to the Treaty of Versailles.

Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello, my lovely betwixters. It's me, Cade Lister. Welcome back once again to Betwix the sheets. But before we can go any further, I do have to remind you that this is an adult podcast. Book about adults, other adults, bad stories,

things. Nuddle twos. Right, on with it. We are going to a party betwixters, and we are going incognito. Now, what are your options? Wear your caps really low, a fake mustache, full facial surgery,

or a teeny tiny little mask just across your eyes. That'll do it. Nobody'll know it's us for sure. Welcome to the world of the Georgian masked ball. Hello and welcome back to Petwix's Sheets, the history of sex scandal in society with be Kate Lister. Guilt carriages, heavy dresses, sparkling jewelry, expensive tickets, glittering chandeliers and masks. So many masks. A mask on every face.

In this episode, we are going inside the masquerade balls of George and London, and we are joined by the fabulous Dr. Megan Cobzer, author of a brand new book, The Masquerade, a history of extravagance and intrigue. And I want to know if these parties are as popular as they seem in TV shows. If the people really were anonymous, and if they ever used that anonymity to misbehave. Not that I'd do that. Not that you would do that, but, you know, some people might do that. Have you got your dancing shoes on? Right, well then let's do this.

Well, hello and welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only Megan Cobeser. How are you doing? I am wonderful. Are you riding high on the success of your latest publication? Oh, well, it's not successful yet. Because publication date is May 12th, and then the launch date is May 12th. I have to say, I think that this compliments your book pretty well from what I can tell.

I think it does, doesn't it? Yeah. They sort of go hand in hand or hand another part of the body, depending on how you want to look at it. But yeah, it's really exciting. I have never done anything like this before, and it's like little baby Megan's dreams coming true and I cry about it publicly more than I should. So I was going to say, how are you feeling about it? But that kind of sounds like.

Yeah, it's like tears of joy and disbelief. Yeah. Because also like Bridgetton coming out, season four with a masquerade. Perfect. Who could have asked for better timing? And yeah, it's just, it's really exciting and cool to go through this whole process. Give us the full title. The Masquerade, History of Extravagance and Intrigue.

Oh, I love it. Good title. I know. Did you choose the title? Mm-mm. No, my title was much worse than that. So let's talk about the story of your book. masquerades, Megan. How did you get interested in this? First of all, well, we'll take one back. What is a masquerade? That's a great question. It is an entertainment where people go, hopefully with their

faces masks, but they could also be disguised using cosmetics. So it doesn't have to be a physical mask, but in most cases, at least in the 18th century, which is what I work on, it means that you're wearing a mask on your face. But I think later we'll probably get into what sorts of cosmetics people might have used and how offensive they might have been. But generally, it meant that your face was covered in some way by something to disguise you. And then you're a costume of some sort. Drinks were to be had. Music was there. Dancing was there. But disguise or the promise of disguise and anonymity was one of the main attractions. that differentiated it from other things of the time.

And we've seen it in Bridgeton, and we've seen it in, I'm trying to think of other representations, that's not eyed-wise shut, because that definitely wasn't 18th century. No, but Casanova with Heath Ledger. Yes. And, I mean, Phantom of the Opera, which is 19th century, but...

Marie Antoinette with Kirsten Dunst. She paints on a mask, doesn't she? Yeah, there's... Oh, there's one more that I can't think of. Harlitz has masquerade in it. Do we still have masked balls? that's still a thing. I've never been invited. I probably wouldn't have been invited to one in the 18th century either, but I've certainly never been invited to one today. So today, so I'm from Chicago, even though I live in Newcastle, I don't sound like a majority, because I'm not. But there are usually masquerade balls around Halloween, because Halloween's a big thing in the States. And they're usually fundraisers, which means you have to have a nice, pricey ticket slapped on to your access, which isn't different from what the 18th century was, at least in the,

first 90 years of the 1700s. So we see that like that is a thing like the Chicago lyric opera has a masquerade sometimes it's New Year, sometimes it's Halloween. Other places will use them as fundraisers for things. And then in London, I've actually been to one in London. But it was like one of those immersive things where it was Swan Lake Ballet slash masquerade dinner. That sounds intense. Yeah. So you're having dinner, a masquerade and ballet all at the same time. Yeah, but it's like the immersive where they like dance across your dinner table. Oh, I don't think I could handle that. Yeah, it was an experience.

That sounds intense. Like you're trying to eat your staffers and there's somebody doing a pleia on the table. Yeah. Oh, okay. All right, I'd give it a well. So when did you first become interested in studying masquerade? It was sort of accidental. So this is based on my PhD.

And initially I was like, I'm going to do a PhD on anonymity because that was what my master's was on. and in print culture and in the 17th century. And that is none of what my PhD was actually about. Surprise, surprise. So to do that, I was like, oh, I'm going to start. I'll use text sources. I'll think about the masquerade because people go to the masquerade and they're anonymous and what they can do at the masquerade and transgress boundaries and all sorts of raunchy stuff.

So that was the first dip I took into research was the masquerade. And Terry Castle, who is a brilliant academic out of Stanford. her book was what I encountered. And it actually, it's the 40th anniversary this year. So it's sort of a fun timing for my masquerade to come out 40 years following from hers. Because her book, I couldn't have written mine without hers. Like, I couldn't. And her book was all about literature and theory of what the 18th century masquerade meant and what a lot of people to do and how transgressive it was. I was like, this is perfect. This is exactly what I want. So I started digging into newspapers. And thankfully, we have digital resources like the

Bernie collection online, which you can get at the, you know, you can access to the British Library, if you fancy. And I just started searching the word masquerade. And I have a spreadsheet with like 3,000 newspaper entries with masquerade in it. And it was really interesting because I was starting to get some of the things that she cited in her book. And then I was getting other things that were not in her book. And granted, technology has come a long way. So access to sources is very different now than it was in 1986. But I was like, this is a different story than what Castle has presented. And both things, both hers and mine are right. There's no one is better than the other. One is wrong. One is right. Because literature and history coexist. And they tell us similar

stories but have different nuances to them. So I found that these entertainments were really expensive and it wasn't everyone. You couldn't sneak in. There weren't as many dirty deeds going on as we thought. There wasn't as much gender bending as we might have thought. There was definitely some of all of these things, but maybe not to the extent that literature portrayed it as or satirical print. So was it really that you'd go to a party and you were wearing a mask and just nobody would know who you were at all. Absolutely not. If you try and imagine what that would be like today,

you just get an invitation, you're going to go somewhere, you can have a mask on, and literally nobody's going to know who you are and you're not going to know who anyone else is either. I'm already thinking people are going to misbehave. So the first thing is the early masquerades were a mix of invitation and ticket. If you're invited, granted, you're probably going to... You've been invited. Right, you're on a guest list.

But if you're buying a ticket, that's slightly different. because in some regards. So with the tickets, the early tickets to the opera house, the Kings Theater, which was in Haymarket, that was managed by a subscription list, which means your name had to be on the list, which means you were a subscriber to the opera, which means you're coming from money. And the tickets to the masquerade were the most expensive form of entertainment you could buy. Operas were significantly more affordable than a masquerade ticket. What are we talking here? How much would it cost? Between two and 400 pounds.

That's quite a lot for a party, isn't it? For one masquerade. And that's just your ticket. That's not how much it costs to get a costume. Or to get your transport, because you are not traipsing through the streets of London in some totally decked out diamond-clad dress to then be mugged and have out, you know, someone.

So now we're talking, there's all these layers of pricing that are coming in. And it creates this era of exclusivity, but also because not everyone can go, you don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Until the newspapers tell you. This is like playing with anonymity then. This is like the kind of the mystique of anonymity. But really, really, it's not that hard to find out who's behind each mask.

No. And a couple things on that. One, just like Bridgeton, there is a ceremonial on masking. I don't know if they had a gong like Bridgeton did. But like... I'm not counting that then. That's not a masked ball in my book. No.

That's a partially masked bowl. The masks come off at dinner, at the supper, excuse me. So around midnight or one o'clock in the morning, the supper rooms would open, and all the masks would come off. But also, masks were not necessarily made of the nicest things. Today, when we think of masks, Venetian masks tend to be like a paper mache or a leather, which are both much better for your skin. And some of those types of masks existed in the 18th century, but there were also wax masks. and for anyone who knows anything about 18th century wax, it's disgusting. It's not refined.

It stinks. It melts really easily. It depends on what it's made of. If it's like part animal fat, good luck. Right? And like, masqueries are hot. And now you have this thing on your face. And it's like on your hot face.

Right? So like how much do you really want to keep your mask on your face, especially if it's wax? Not much. Yeah. So when's the first masked ball in Britain that we know of anyway, that we've got records full. This is a hard question. So court masks existed. I mean, back with like Henry the 8th, Elizabeth I first. Oh yeah, yeah. Those were, you loved dressing up, didn't he? Yes. And with Inigo Jones, there were some quite provocative costumes that graced the court masks. But those were more scripted

and allegorical and all Hail the King sort of vibes going on. Whereas the masquerade was an entertainment where it was more open because you could buy a ticket. And so the first one that I've come across was 1711 on the south side of the tons. And that didn't seem to get rave reviews. So they sort of shriveled up. And then there was the Duke de'Eau, who was the French ambassador, who came to London in 1713 to celebrate the Treaty of Eutrecht. So joy between England and France, like, that's a thing, apparently. And during his time in London, he was given the use of apartments in Somerset House, which today, oh my gosh, you go there and it's the overwhelming. It's beautiful. It's one of my favorite places to go. The courtyard is stunning. You're surrounded by neoclassical architecture, these huge impressive buildings. And it sits right between the Strand and the Thames. When Louis was there, it didn't look like that. It was still very nice, but it was more shambly than that. Sort of like a mixture of different buildings, very white hall style.

and he decided to host masquerades. They were popular in the court, the French courts, and so he transported that over. I was like, hey, let me show you a good time. Let me show you French hospitality and taste and elegance and host you all, all the aristocrats, in my quarters, give you some food, some music, something to talk about. And at first, we didn't really know how they were going to go, but they ended up being a success. And he had three or four masquerades in Somerset House during his residency in London. Oh, so he kind of revived it, brought it over. Why was the first one? Why didn't they like it? What were the reviews saying to two mask, too masky? I don't know. I think because it was associated with Spring Gardens, which eventually like turns into

Vauxhall, and that was associated with the stewards. I don't know if that sort of tainted the reputation. So I think because it was maybe associated more with a lower group of people, that then when like the French ambassador comes over and is like, hey, look at this cool thing we're doing. Now it's French. And it's exclusive. And it's a way to show off what you're wearing to everyone around you and to be creative, but also like a little scandalous. And then that gets picked up and commercialized by Johann Heidegger when he comes over to England and becomes the manager of the King's Opera House. And 1713 is when he starts seeing this happening and then he starts slowly building them into his social calendar at the opera house.

So what were these early masked bowls like? What was the French ambassador? What was his party like? Do we know much about it? There's a really great, I think it's a letter, like a correspondence record book from Catherine Percival. And she goes to one of these. And she talks about how lavish the rooms were.

There's silver glinting on the walls where candles are being held. and there's food everywhere. There are people who are wearing all sorts of different dresses disguised as sort of Eastern figures, allegorical figures. So we have like a Diana, right, with her moon on her little headpiece and a bow and arrow. Pretty bougie then. Yeah. And of course, she recognizes like five people straight off the bat with their masks on it. She's like, oh, so-and-so was wearing this dress, which was made of this, which looked wonderful. And so-and-so was wearing this with her hair down and styled in this way. And like, yeah.

What do they mean by masks? Is it like sort of open to interpretation? Like what are we talking here? We're talking to like the bottom half of the face, like a COVID mask? Or are we talking like the top half? We know like the eyes cut out like like a high woman or like maybe the full face. Just you can't see anything at all. Great question.

This, they're not COVID masks. Okay. Your mouth could be exposed depending on what kind you're wearing. So generally the part of your face that was almost always covered is. like nose to forehead. Right. Right. So like an eye mask would be like a Columbina style mask. Or you could wear an eye mask with a piece of silk coming down from it. There's actually an existing one in the Museum of London, which I haven't gotten to like touch, but I've seen pictures of. And those are the ones that appear in lots of satirical prints from the 18th century. We see these masks. And if you think about it like

the silk, if you want to eat, you could just sort of pick it up if you wanted to. But it does conceal fully. There's also a mask that's called the Bauta, which is very creepy looking and it has its roots in Venice. It's like this big white, very plain looking mask that is also kind of terrifying because it doesn't have any features. It has the nostrils cut out and has the eye holes cut out. And it is essentially a big white, I almost want to call it if you laid it flat, it would be like a big white rectangle that then you would wrap around your face. But it has, you know, the nose and cheekbones and the eyes. So you can still, it's like a face. But it comes down to, depending on the size of your face and the size of the mask, it covers your mouth and completely like wipes out

any sign of your face apart from your eyes. Those were not massively popular in British masquerades, but because the masquerade also has roots in Venetian culture, it did make appearances and you do see it occasionally in satirical prints and you hear people talk about them, whether it's in correspondence or you see them in bills of sale from masquerade warehouses. So it just, yeah, dependent. Why did they become so popular? I mean, were they were big in France and they were big in, was it Germany, you said? And then they caught on here.

Were we like a late bloomer to this? And why did they become so popular? I think that, so the court culture in Britain was different than the court culture in other places. and the masquerades in the other countries in Europe or the other states in Europe that were hosting them, they were all in the court. So we have, you know, the king of Denmark is hosting masquerades in his court. We have the Spanish court hosting masquerades, the French court hosting masquerades. The Georges and Anne are not hosting masquerades.

George the first and George the second both loved a good masquerade. George the third. Absolutely. George the third was like, do not even talk to me about that. Was he the serious? He was quite serious before he went a bit bonkers, wasn't he? Yes. Okay, right. So yeah, he's not a fan. But the others are. Yes. And so it's interesting. I think because Heide sort of snaps them up and commercializes them, one, it takes the onus off the court to be responsible for these. But two, it wasn't necessarily in their style. So the London masquerade is, as far as I found, the first one that is commercial in that you can buy a ticket.

despite the other limitations of like price and subscription list. You can actually buy a ticket and you don't have to be in the court to go. I'll be back with Meg after this short break. Who could buy tickets, though? I mean, in theory it's open to everybody. But like, is it really open to everybody? No. It's the top 1% if even that. Okay, we're just pricing them out.

But if it's a mask's ball, maybe you could just show up with a mask on and just, you know, sneak your way in. You would think so, like Sophie and Bridgeton. Yeah. But they had guards at the doors that were checking tickets. And in most instances, you had to either sign your ticket or put your wax seal on your ticket. And if you, so if you got two tickets and you brought a guest, you had to like sign for them as well. So again, this whole sense of like, no one knows who's here. Yes, we do. You have to sign your ticket. And we have a guest list. So was there much competition for the Like it's, is it like Glastonbury? Like, you know, it's sold out within a minute or something like that. Was it like that? Was it like that? Not initially and not really with Heidegger's. I mean, there were anywhere from like 800 to000 people at these things. So like they were big. But it's not until 1768. So the masquerades disappear for a chunk of years in the 1750s and 1760s because there are two earthquakes in London. Really? I didn't know that.

Yeah. So 1755, the masquerades disappear. The last one, like, there's this huge movement to get rid of them. The last one is, I think, like, January something, 1756, and then they're gone until 1768. There are small ones in private estates that are going on for the elite, but nothing like what they had been at the King's Theater. So 1768, George III is now king and his cousin, the King of Denmark. Christian the 7th comes over. And Christian the 7th is like, oh, I'm just going to have this tiny little visit. It's just going to be really quiet, quick, incognito. No one needs to know. It's me.

Blah, blah, blah. Does not stick to his word at all. Oh, my God. Christian is so traumatic. And he stays way longer than he should. George III is like, I think it's time for you to leave. Goodbye. Here's a party. Goodbye. Christian the 7th is like, no, if I'm going out, I'm going out on my terms. And I'm holding a mask of raid. So, Christian hosts this outrageous masquerade at the King's Theatre. Unfortunately, Heidegger is dead by this point, but there is someone who might have been in attendance who then picks up the masquerade and sort of carries them on into the 1770s. Anyway, the 1768 masquerade was invitation only. However, people who couldn't go were selling their tickets on the black market.

Really? Like ticket scouts? Yes. for up to 30 guineas. And if you give me a second, I can look up how much that was, because I feel like 30 guineas is like stupid expensive, even today. That's like the average footman, I think, or servant was earning like five guineas a year. Oh, if even that, yeah. If even that. So this is like like multiple times a working class person's yearly wage. Yes. I mean, you're sort of like average gentleman bachelor of good standing who is on the elite scale was, like 500 pounds a year. All right. So 31 pounds, close to 30 yonies, is 4,583 pounds today. See, that's, it's a lot of money. That's what people were looking on the black market.

They were selling these for because, one, it's the first enormously popular masquerade to happen in years because they'd been gone. But two, it's hosted by the King of Denmark. So it has like double weight on its head for people wanting to go. Of course. And did celebrities go to these things? I mean, you know, I mean, you're not supposed to know because they're wearing masks, but, like, you know, would you have known? Yes. Yeah. Actually, David Garrick, who is a very popular actor and writer at, well, playwright at the time, is going to, he's at the King of Dunnark's masquerade. And then the Duchess of Devonshire, who's another big name, she goes to some, not as many. But we do see the cream of the crop or the influencer crowd are making appearances at masquerades. the It Girls and Boys. It wasn't the story like 1801 with was it Kitty Courtney Courtney?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. So this is one of my favorite. So Kitty, who is the Earl of Devon. His name is William. And he has 13 sisters who affectionately call him Kitty, which is what I call him because I feel like I'm his sister, even though I'm not, because I've worked on him

quite a bit. And he goes to a masquerade in 1801. He gets an invitation from Miss Morgan, who lives. over in Kensington, and he is going with his sister to the masquerade, and they are all dressed up, and it's pouring rain, like it's miserable, miserable weather. So they're in their carriage, which is totally blinged out as is Kitty's style. They go to the masquerade, and there are people who are waiting outside the door in the rain. He's like, what is going on? So they get up to the door. He's like, go carriage, go back. We don't need you anymore. We're here. And he goes up to

the door, he presents their tickets, their invitations. And the porter is like, sorry these are fake they're forged you can't come in and he's like what are you talking like it is pouring rain you're seriously going to make me be out here with these other people so the other people he's with one of them gets to go in because he he's a harlequin and he finds someone inside that he knows and like flags her down through the window or something I don't know and she comes out and like claims him and brings him into the masquerade and kitty is like this is ridiculous I want to talk to Miss Morgan. Surely this is a huge mistake. We should be inside. Anecdote to this, Kitty is very protective of his sisters. He is very much about putting their

best interest first. He rescues one of his sisters from a fire and ends up with like permanent scarring on his hand. And I think part of his face, like he is very, very concerned about them. And so his, it's him and his sister out in the rain. Like, blah, how horrible. Yeah, I find it's in the spring so it might not have been too cold, but it's still unpleasant. And when you think about Georgian fashion and how many layers they were wearing and just getting soaked through, right? So anyway, Miss Morgan comes to the door and she's like, oh, yeah, about that. Well, you didn't invite me to your sister's birthday, which is tomorrow. So I thought I would just send you a fake ticket. But if you invite me, oh yeah, if you invite me to the birthday tomorrow, then maybe you can come in.

What a bitch. Did they get to go in? Did she get the invite? like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Of course you can come to the birthday party. And then they were allowed to go inside. People in the 18th century had a weird sense of humor, didn't they? I know. But also, like, how vindictive and manipulative. We love a petty queen, though. I mean, that's something else, isn't it? So what would be going on at these things? I've got the idea, you know, that it's masked, different types of masks. But like, what would, it's, you know, it's like the Metball. What goes on inside? That happens. It, from what we can tell, between correspondence and newspapers and other things that are coming out of things.

time. Print culture is obviously feeding into conceptions of what's going on. Correspondence is where I looked a lot of the time because that's coming from the people who went. There is some scandalous stuff ishish that's happening. Like people are quote, making love. But because that's what I think is going on in there. I think it's all like as soon as they get in, they're just ripping the bloomers off one another. Right. Okay. So what does what does what do you think I mean when I say making love at the masquerade? Oh, see that's that's the question, isn't it? What? Does that just mean a bit of light fingering, for example? That just means heavy flirting.

Oh, that's no what that means at all. No, right. Okay. So that's the other thing. And I did not know that. So I'm reading some of these sources. And it's like, we made love for two hours. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. I have heard. I have read sources where they say that before, like don't make love to me. And they literally just mean like saying flirty things.

Stop flirting like me. Wow. Wow. Wow. You and I would have been. grossly mistaken in the 18th century. That would have been an embarrassing incident for everybody concerns. So maybe they're not as transgressive as people thought they were then. No. So, there's just a bit of flirting going on. It is. Because I was talking to different historians about this to make sure I'm not that I'm reading this the right way because the 18th century language is different to our own, right? There are so many words that we used today that they didn't. There are words that they used then that we don't. Or,

the same words that they used in different ways. So that was really insightful to learn that. However, there were opportunities, I'm sure, to sneak away into dark corners and do some dirty deeds. William Bird the second, who is a very problematic man for many, many misogyny abuse and slavery. Like, you name it, he's a bad person. He's also a sex addict. Right. And we know this because he had a very explicit diary, series of diaries that were all written in shorthand. So then someone sort of, you know, Sam Peepsy. Yeah. So someone decoded them, thankfully.

And he, like, writes down every single sexual encounter of his life. And it's not necessarily the most explicit detail, but he is very frank. Okay. So he'll be like, I rogered my mistress on the billiards table. Nice. Or I can't remember what he uses for masturbator. But, like, right, he has his, like, language that he uses and you know, because it keeps reappearing and reappearing. And so at the masquerade, his main purpose is not to get off at the masquerade.

His main purpose is to court this woman he wants to marry. Okay. So if you have a sex addict going to a masquerade, I would think his priority is dirty deeds and dark corners. Yep. But his, like, his actual diaries tell us that was not the priority, which suggests to me the masquerade is about reputation management. Yeah, it's a place to be, ironically, be seen, but not be seen, this kind of like playing with anonymity. Yeah. So, yeah, they probably weren't all shagging one another like crazy if it's actually, if it's that elite and that expensive, although I'm sure that it did go on.

What about sort of like gender bending? It sort of has that reputation too, like we've all got masks on so we can play around and we can be more free with our sexuality. Was that true or is that nonsense as well? It is partially true. I feel like that's a bit of everything with the masquerade. It's partially true. I have come across more examples of men dressing as women than women dressing as men. Yep. So Horace Walpole, who is everyone's favorite 18th century gossip and has wonderful diaries that you can read online, he very frequently went to the masquerade as an old woman and like heckled people.

But then people knew it was him because he, it was like this character. that he sort of adopted. His cousin actually, Conway, it's really interesting, wanted to go to the masquerade, dressed as the Duchess of Manchester, to the point where he, like, tried stalking her

to figure out how she talked and dressed and moved so that he could then imitate her at the masquerade. He was unsuccessful because he was trying to track her down at the theater. And Conway was like,

I'm so sorry to disappoint. I'm just going to have to go as a general woman of fashion. So I ransacked my sister's wardrobe and took her piece. peacock feathers. Yeah, okay. Is that what women generally wore peacock feathers?

As part of their, yeah, they could accessorize in different ways as far as like hair went. And then I can't remember what else he wears, but he goes into the whole description of his outfit for Walpole in a letter that he writes back to him. So there's some gender experimentation, but not quite as much as we've been led to believe. No, but actually Kitty, going back to Kitty, Kitty, Kitty was. same sex attracted in the 18th century and his effeminacy was not a secret. It wasn't something that he openly necessarily was like, come at me boys, because of his sisters, because he didn't want to ruin their prospects of marriage. But he very frequently dressed as very, like different types of women at masquerades. Okay. So it did give people the opportunity in a more socially acceptable way.

I don't know if everyone approved of it. But if you were going to be. going to do it. The masquerade was where you wouldn't get arrested for it. Okay. So I'm going to guess that there's a band playing and then there's music and there's dancing happening at these things. Yes. Yes. There is music. Depending on which masquerade you're at, there might just be one band or orchestra. There might be multiple. So Teresa Cornelis, who hosted masquerades in the 1770s and was the Empress of Pleasure. What a title. I know. Her house. in Soho Square, which today is a Catholic church, had, she was known for her outrageous masquerades. She really, like, turns the volume up on them, literally, because she has more than one band playing

at the same time. God, imagine being her neighbor. You'd be so pissed. Her neighbors are actually the people who are going to the masquerades. So, like, you know. Oh, okay. See, that's the way to get around them, isn't it? They get invited. Wedgwood was actually one of her neighbors.

And Chippendale, so she's like, she's in a very fashionable area. Yeah. Okay. Was there food and drink? Yes. So to begin with, and I would say the first big chunk of the 18th century, the food and drink are included in your ticket. And that could mean wine. It could mean bubbles.

It could mean lemonade. It could mean tea. More coffee. Right. So you had like your choice. And then supper generally was this huge sort of like buffet style where you would go and pick like cold meats, all sorts of different confectionery was there. Fruits, Ices.

So lots of different things. to nibble on and choose. But as we move towards the end of the 18th century, as we start seeing the masquerade ticket prices lowering a little bit and shifting into pleasure gardens more so than physical buildings, the food and the drinks are add-ons.

See, that's what happens. What do they call it? The shittification of things. They start off really good and then suddenly, before you know it, you having to pay for your own champagne at a masked ball. I know. Disgraceful.

It's ridiculous. I'll be back with Meg after this show. break. So these sound delightful. This sounds like loads of fun. This isn't people cross-dressing and having big pile-up orgies in the middle of a room with just a mask on and peacock feathers. Why would anybody oppose these? These sound like quite sophisticated affairs. Yeah, sophisticated is a strong word to use for the masquerade, I think. But I'm a woman of very simple taste. I think, so one of the biggest concerns, the bishops of London just loved hating on the masquerade.

Why? Why did they not like it? It let people move outside their social boundaries. Even if it was in a very small way, it's still, so the elites were the ones who are doing it. But that is then setting an example for everyone below them. And so the bishops of London,

there are three who really rail against the masquerade. And they are concerned, as are other people, Henry Fielding is one of them, who was Justice of the Peace at one point, and who writes about the masquerade in a lot of his literature, it's this concern that the world is going to turn upside down. It's going to actually go like a real-life masquerade. People, you know, chimney sweeps will become kings and duchesses will become butchers and like everything will just get turned on its head. Wow. And because of the earthquakes, and then there's in 1755 an enormous earthquake in Lisbon that completely

destroys the city. So the fear is the masquerades are part of this site, this space of vice and adultery and corruption. And so London is next. And this fear that what's going on behind closed doors and this fear of, so it's Italian influence coming in, it's French influence, it's foreign influence coming in. That sounds more like us. That sounds like the kind of thing we'd get our knickers in a twist about. Okay, so it's French, it's foreign. We don't know what's happening and people might be misbehaving themselves. These are the main objections. Yeah. And you can't forget Italian. That was the other one. Oh, and it's Italian. Yeah, that'd do it. People did not like. Italians coming over here, showing us how to party. We're not putting up with this nonsense.

But also for women, because now women are going, right? And that's one of, this is what's so frustrating to me. So yes, the masquerade was transgressive. No, perhaps not as much as we might think it was. But one of the complaints that keeps resurfacing is that women's reputations will be destroyed. Women will be destroyed, women of quality, be ostracized. Is there any truth to this fear? Was anybody ostracized? Was anyone's reputation destroyed? I have not come across a single person.

So it's this, one of the things that I emphasize in the book is that I think part of this is a way of controlling what women have access to and what they're allowed to do with their bodies, which sounds a little like today. Because, so like Elizabeth Chudley, who is my clickbait for the masquerade because she goes with her boobs out. Or strong look, Elizabeth. Yeah, the illusion of her boobs out. It's very Chapalrone. I was just going to say, like I said, as soon as I said, that's like, wow, that's a strong look. And then I thought, but actually, they're still doing that today. Chapelrone did that. And I thought she looked incredible, actually. And I would love to have done that, but my tits are by my knees, so they wouldn't have looked at anything like that

on me. But good for her. I know. I saw it. And I was like, all I could think was Elizabeth Chudley, but I was like, this is such, it's such a look. It's such a strong look. It's such ownership of your body and your sexuality and your image and just sort of like a giant F you to misogy and patriarchy. What was Elizabeth wearing? Elizabeth, what wasn't she wearing? We're not actually sure because there are lots of different existing depictions of her that you can actually, if you Google Elizabeth Chudley, if the Jenea, because that's the character she went as, which is from Greek mythology, you'll see different ways that her costume is presented. So we don't actually know which of them, if any of them are even correct. But from the different written accounts that we have, whether it's Horace Walpole or Elizabeth.

with Montague or the newspapers, their accounts are that whatever she was wearing was some sort of like drapey Greek antiquity style dress that was either non-existent on the top half or so nude and transparent that it gave the illusion of her not wearing anything. Yeah. So she does have a mask, but she's not going to remain anonymous. Are you joking me? No. No. That's very spicy, isn't it? Yeah. And so she is actually a maid of honor to Princess Augusta, who is the Princess of Wales.

And Augusta is at the masquerade and sees Chuddley and is like, I don't think so. Here's a shawl. And Elizabeth is like, no, thank you. Go, girl. Wow. That's impressive, isn't it? Yeah. There are places where scandal happens then. It's not a completely chaste affair. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, going into it, this was a huge risk for Chudley because she, yeah, right? She could absolutely lose her status as made of honor. She could lose her status in society, ostracized, right?

Like, because this hype around the masquerade has been building of you could be destroyed or not. Thankfully, for her, she meets the king, George's second, who's a bit of a lutch. Yeah. And of course, he's totally besotted. Of course. He's like, hey girl, unofficial mistress. I love you. Come to Windsor. So that's her set up then. She's absolutely fine. See, there's a lesson there, isn't there? Go to posh pasties with your tits out and you might bag a king. Could happen. Could happen. So as a final question then, where did they go? Like, I know you can attend masquerade balls now, but they are kind of like novelties and recreations. Did they have a period where they just fell out of fashion? And why was that? Yes. So in the 1790s, the masquerades start, as I alluded to this earlier, they started to lose their shine. There's more that's happening in the world of. Bishops are shouting anymore. Bishops aren't shouting anymore. They're not. They're more in the first half of the century. And the second half of the century, because leisure is becoming more commercialized and there's a million more things that you can do, masquerades have to sort of fight to keep up. Right. They become old-fashioned.

They are, so now they're at Rana La Gardens, which is over Chelsea, like right on the Thames. And there are still some that are at the Kings Theater. There are still some that are happening. Other places, the elite are taking them into their own homes. So like Bridgeton in a townhouse, the elite are bringing them into townhouses and country houses. But the ticket price is dropping. And they're becoming sort of the middling, upper-middling form of entertainment. And they're being associated with. with royal celebrations, so like Queen Charlotte's birthday or a peace treaty or whatever. And because they're becoming more and more itemized, like you can buy a dinner ticket, you can buy a private dinner box ticket to have your dinner by yourselves. You can buy your costume at the door. You don't have to prepare before you go. You can buy your ticket in cash instead of having to be on a subscription list.

So all these things are changing the nature of the masquerade into more of a varied public option. And then that's happening at the same time as other popular forms of entertainment coming up. And we see that then the elite start picking up on just fancy dress. So now you don't need a mask. Now you just need a costume. And you don't even have to act it out. You just have to look nice. And so as a final, final question then, which mask ball would you want to have gone to?

In all the research that you've done, would you have wanted to go and see Kitty? Would you have wanted to go at one of these early Frenchy ones? the one where Elizabeth has got a whaps out, which one would you've wanted to go to? This is so hard. It's such a hard question. Because it's not like you've seen one, you've seen them all because they're all different

and they all have such fun characters who are all real, which is mind-blowing. I think, so Kitty actually hosts a giant birthday extravaganza at Powderham Castle in Devon. And just because I love Kitty and I loved working on his, story and sort of like not recovering, recovering his narrative a bit, I think

that's one that I would really like to go see because it would have been not just a masquerade but his masquerade and how he used that for self-expression as much as for family expression. So sort of that he's so ostentatious and over the top

that it would have just been. You just want to meet him. Yeah. Be one of his parties. Yeah. I'd agree with that. Oh, Meg, you have been wonderful to talk Thank you so much. And if people want to know more about you and your work, where can they find you? On Instagram.

I am at Fancy Historian. All the regular ways you spell those words. Good handle. And there is a personal website, but that's also, I think, linked on my Instagram. And give us the full title of the book once more. The Masquerade, a history of extravagance and intrigue. Fabulous. Thank you so much for dropping by.

You've been a treat. Thank you so much, Kate. This was absolutely wonderful. Thank you for listening and thank you so much to Meg for joining me. And if you like what you heard, don't forget to like review and follow along whatever it is. You get your podcasts. All through May, we're going to be finding out how people have been cancelled throughout history, so don't miss it. And if you'd like us to explore a subject, if you just wanted to say hello, then he can email us at betwixtatheist.com. This podcast was edited by Tim Arstall and produced by Sophie G.

The senior producer was Freddie Chick. Join me again, Betwixt Sheets, The History of Sex Scandal and Society, a podcast by History Hit. This podcast contains music from Epidemic Sound.