Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - How to Get Cancelled as a Medieval Mistress

Episode Date: May 15, 2026

What do you have to do wrong to be specifically named in a law? In the 14th Century, one of the mistresses of King Edward III found out. So who was Alice Perrers?Kate is joined by the one and only Eleanor Janega to find out how Alice rose to power, and what brought her down?Eleanor is one of the hosts of our sister podcast, Gone Medieval, and the author of 'The Once and Future Sex: Going Medieval on Women's Roles in Society'.This episode was edited by Hannah Feodorov. The producer was Sophie Gee. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  You can take part in our listener survey here.All music from Epidemic Sounds.Betwixt the Sheets: History of Sex, Scandal & Society is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello, my lovely betwixters. It's me, Kate Lister. Welcome back once again. Thank God you're here. Where have you been? We've been on tenterhooks,

just waiting for you to arrive. But you're here now, and that's the main thing. But before we can go any further together, I do have to tell you. This is an adult podcast, spoken by adults, other adults, about dolly things, an adult way,

covering away your social studies, you've been a little bit, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. On me the show! When do you know that you've come committed a social faux par. Because sometimes it's not particularly obvious that you've done it, is it? Did you hold someone's eye contact for a little bit too long? Did you take the last piece of pudding at a party?

Did you get smashed on a works night out and send your boss pictures of your tits? Or have you ever had a law? Have you ever had a law that is written specifically about you? A law that names you? No? Well, then, you have not been committing nearly enough social fauxpars. Welcome to the world of Alice Perez. Hello and welcome back to Patrick's Sheets, the history of sex scandal and society with me, Kate Lester.

They say never meet your heroes, but I would have loved to have met Alice Perez. At one point, she was the wealthiest and the most influential woman in medieval Britain, and Alice got that money primarily by being a huge, pain in the ass to everybody except the king who was obsessed with her, but she really was a bit of a pain in the ass to him as well. And to find out more about this icon, I am joined by the Queen herself, Eleanor Janegger. I mean, who else is going to be able to tell us about Alice, really?

All right, we've got our coin purses at the ready. Well, let's do this. Well, hello, and welcome back to Betwixt the shoe. It's the queen herself. It's Eleanor Yaniga. How are you doing? I'm better for seeing your face, baby girl. We are so back.

We are so back. Thank you so much. I hear that you've got a bit of a cold. I do. So listen, if you've said to yourself, wow, Eleanor's voice sounds even sexier than usual, then that's a weird kink. It's mucus.

That's what it is. That's not sex appeal. It's mucus. You know, one way of looking at it is that we're lubricated. I don't know. But we're, listen, but nothing can stop me from gossiping. Okay. Not sleep, not snow, not sinus infection. No, no. Stuff you're full of flu meds and let's go for it. And we are talking about, oh, she's so much fun to gossip about. I do love this woman. This is, this is part of how to get cancelled. And we thought that we would do a royal mistress and a

medieval royal mistress who got cancelled quite spectacularly. The one, the only. Alice Perez. I've got one of the best to ever do it, to be honest, to be honest. Like, we love her. Her hustle was legendary. Honestly, we shouldn't, but we do. Yeah, we do. You know, I just really respect any woman who can kind of like get the motion moving to this extent in the 14th century. Like, let's go, baby girl.

Like, you know, the word girl boss gets thrown around too often these days. But here's one, but here's one. Okay. All right. She's so, I don't know what, she's, she's the ultimate anti-hero because you know you're not supposed to really like it. You can look objectively at what she's done and been like, well, I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me, but I'm quite glad that you did it to a king. Fundamentally, I think that people do not make King's lives difficult enough. Good point. Yeah. This is, you know, I'm team ordinary people, you know, as a general rule of thumb.

Yeah. And what is Alice, if not ordinary people? So, you know, frankly, how often do we get to see an ordinary person? person, make a king's life hell. Right? Right? Okay. So there'll be people listening. There'll be loads of people listening, actually, who've never even heard the name Alice Perez before. She's not like a huge historical name. So give us it in a nutshell. Who was she? Who was Alice? Well, we don't really know what her deal is until she kind of enters the historical record. We think she's born sometime in the

1340s, which is a really difficult time to get born, right? Because you're just kind of like, wow, born right in there with the Black Death, huh? Great. Good job. Oh good. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So it's like, this is the fact that she made it through it all. She's already a scrapper. She's already a survivor. Yes, she is. It's interesting to us because the name, Alice Paris, it's like at first we thought this might have been her maiden name. But now we actually think that that is the last name of her first husband. Okay. So she got,

okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because she got married to a jeweler, which is a pretty good. That's a pretty good marriage, right? So, you know,

we're usually talking about kings and queens and often peasants in the middle ages, but there is this whole group of people, you know, the middling sort, right? Like people who are living these lives in the cities, they have trades.

She's from that kind of class. So fairly money to, but ordinary, right? Okay. So not an aristocrat. No, I mean, because we thought maybe at first that she was like the daughter of a knight and she was from Hertfordshire because there is a Paris family there. But it turns out, nope, nope, just marrying in, baby. No, marrying in, okay?

No. So she's a haughty with some money. All right, we know that. Like, it's, and she's on the loose because her first husband has died. Right. And like, what's a girl to do? There's nothing more threatening in the medieval period than a widow because girlie has money. She's out of the control of a man. And in Alice's case, we have to understand that she is probably, she's a hot girl. Yeah, I mean, she must have been. She's making moves. Like, you don't, I'm sorry, but you cannot come to the eye of the King of England if you don't have looks.

Like, let's be so for real, right? Right, exactly. Nobody, what was it? Joan Rivers said, no man's ever put his hand up a woman's blouse looking for a library card. Exactly. She's surreal for that.

She's so real for that. But, okay, look, one way or another, she comes to the attention of King Edward III. Okay, and he is the king from about 1327 to 1377, and his deal is that he's the guy who starts making the claim to the French throne that kicks off the 100 years war. Oh, right.

Okay. Had we not been fucking about in France until then? No, not really, because the thing is there's these super tight movements back and forth with France. I mean, English kings often control quite a lot of it. You know, like Normandy is where they come from, right? Bloody hell, they owed Aquitaine for a while. There were all these lands. So they usually have considerable power over there.

But the other deal is that Edward III's mother is another one of my favorite girl bosses, Queen Isabella of France the She-Wolf, who again, you're not supposed to like. Oh, I remember her. So listen, Edward III fundamentally comes from a line of women who are like, I don't know, I feel like you can just start shagging a boyfriend and have him help you take over the throne of England, right? So as far as Edward is concerned, this is a traditional relationship. And look, England in the 14th century, okay, we're starting off this war with France. The claim to fame is via Isabel, right?

Because she was a French princess. And also, it's just been messy down there. There was the tour of Nestle affair. Basically all of the French princesses were having affairs. And so they all got disinherited. There's nowhere, right? There's a crisis down there. But here in England, we got Edward on the throne.

Yeah, it's, oh, girl, like a whole other kettle of fish. England, we got to understand it's England at the time, right? We're not talking about Scotland. I am not talking about Northern Ireland. We're talking about England itself. Now, Edward also comes to the throne, as I just kind of mentioned, because so his mom had staged a civil war against his father, Edward II. Edward II, one of our notable Twink Kings. That's him.

Yes, the one we've spoken about him before. allegedly red hot poker up the bottom, but probably that didn't happen. Probably that didn't happen. Probably he just died. So yeah, like the red hot poker up the bum thing, great story. We can all agree. But probably this is just people hating on Isabella. Like for daring to girl boss too close to the son and depose her husband with the help of her boyfriend, right? But one way or another, we get Edward III on the throne. He comes to the power and he's like, mom, love all this. Love the work. But I am going to execute your boyfriend. and you are going to have to go into retirement

and by retirement I mean like here's Castle Rising in Norfolk. So Freudian. I know right. It's just like we're really, but we're set up for a situation. Let's just say the monarchs of England have been playing it a little fast and loose with the concept of monogamy and marriage, right? Like as far as they're concerned. I think so.

I've been doing like some research into royal mistresses of lakes. I've been doing like a talk about them and I'm like trying to find examples. of kings who were pretty sure did stay faithful. There's like maybe three, three. And one of them was King George who went insane. That'll help, right? Like, ladies, if you want to keep your man, just drive him mildly insane. Yeah. Just being gravely, mentally ill helps. Weirdly, William the Conqueror was another one. Well, at least he didn't have any acknowledged illegitimate children. Yeah, an actual love match there, which is quite interesting. So, I mean, But that's the thing. Whenever you get a love match, everyone is like, oh, my God, they liked each other. That's crazy, right? Because like it never happens. It never happens to these people, right? So one way or another, we've got this situation in England where everyone understands that, listen, affairs are going to happen. You don't get married because you're in love with people. You get married to make political alliances, right? And now one of the traditional ways that you would do that, very specifically is you're always trying to marry in with France. But

Like, things are a little hot in that area, so we're not doing it. And anyway, enter Alice, right? Who's Edward married to, first of all? Queen Philippa, which is a great name. So she, okay, yeah, yeah. And by all accounts, she is actually a pretty good queen. People really tend to like her. And they are one of these couples, Edward and Philippa, where they got married really.

early kind of 12 and 13. And we are just really early. Really young. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So and I do hasten to point out at this point. When you get married when you're like 12 and 13, these kids aren't having sex or anything. They usually marry you in a church. Then they keep a real close eye on you. And then you usually start shagging when you're around 16 or so. There are exceptions to this. For example, Eleanor Castile quite famously got knocked up at 14. and then they like separate them.

They were like, you're not supposed to be shagging. Like she could die. You understand that she could die, right? So you marry him off. And, you know, they get on well enough. They get on well enough. But like also, listen, again, we're in a culture that is promoting lovers. We can say that.

It's a court that loves to love, Kate. Courtly loves a big thing in it about this time. It sort of rolls in from France and everyone goes, ooh, troubadours, they're smashing. Oh, absolutely. And like, you know, fundamentally, Eleanor of Aquitaine is the one that paid for a lot of that. So there is this direct link. Yeah. Like she's the one who is like, hey, troubadours, you like that. She's like coming off her stack in order to pay for them. So like it's, you know, she's saying that people should actually have a bit of fun, right? Like if you have to get married because it's your job, you should be allowed to do things for fun, right? And fair play, fair play, right? So here's, Philip and Edward, they're doing a good enough job. But Edward, he has been playing away from home the entire time. We know that he has other mistresses in these years. But he always kind of like comes back to Philip because, of course, he's like, you don't, you don't leave your wife because you have a mistress.

No, that's not the deal. That's not the deal. It's you have your mistresses that you enjoy, but you very much stay focused on the wife. She's numero uno and that that is the lesson that all royal mistresses need to learn if they want to be good at it and succeed is that you have to respect the queen. 100%. Because a lot of the time, they're very happy to let you take this man off their hands. They're like, I've got other things to do. I'm raising a million children. And also, again, I do not love him. This is my job, right? If you want to have sex with him, then that's fine. I can sit over here in my castle wearing a crown and not have sex them and be perfectly happy. Thank you. Exactly. And they can go ahead and they can take lovers themselves. You know, like these things happen all the time. And the big draw from which all of these kind of lovers are pulled in general on the part of men, if you were looking around for a girlfriend, you look to the retinue of your wife. Right. There are going to be. Which is a bit weird, I have to say. Listen, who else are they going to? They're not going down pub girl. I get it. Like, they can't be like who's at the inn this evening. That's not.

That's not how it works, right? Like, can he not like send out? Like, oh, like, I don't know what, the medieval equivalent of a date. Dating via tapestry, tapestry dating up. We're like, you're swiping left and right or something. It is sending out because you're like, I don't know, like the hot girls in your area are just going to be, you know, the domicela, you know, that work for your wife. Because all they do is hang out in castles all day. You know, they don't have an opportunity to meet people.

And one way or another, Alice gets into the retinue of Queen Philippa, and she's what we call it Domicella. We call them a damsel now, right? And Demi Sellas, these are the girls that are always hanging out with the queen, right? Okay. This is a job. And you kind of do favors for the queen. You entertain the queen. But also it's this really interesting role because it is essentially kind of like a four.

of conspicuous consumption, right? Like the more damsels you have in your retinue, the more obviously wealthy you are. And damsels will do all kinds of weird things. Like at varying queen's coronations, sometimes you'll have like two of them standing behind the queen and then two sitting underneath the table next to her. That's a weird gig. And you're like, I got so many hotties in my retinies. Some of them just sit under the table. That's how... I keep spares under the table. table. Yeah, just like I got every hot girl in, you know, a 50 mile radius is here right now and they work for me, right? So it's how you kind of show your power is by having all these beautiful women who are well attired around you. Is it like being a professional friend? Is that the

gig of like, it's like ladies in waiting damsels? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, again, again, if Edward can't go down pub, philipa can't go down pub, right? Like she's, there's, there's no one for her to hang out with otherwise. And this is how you make friends. And then if you've got things like you need stuff done, listen, if Philippa was having an affair, she's going to need someone to pass notes for her. This is who gets that done.

If you have kind of state affairs that you need dealt with, that you don't want your husband involved in, you send your damsels out, things of this nature. So they're incredibly important women, but yeah, a lot of their job is just to kind of like be pretty and hang out. That is true.

Well, hang on a second. here because I could do that. I could sit under a table next to a queen. But like, hang on, Alice is, she's widowed. She was the wife of a jewel at which is a good gig. If you can marry a jury, it's good. But it's good for like your middle classes. That's like a solid gig. Like we're talking about being besties with the queen here. Like this is, how did she pull that off? Well, I think that basically we have to understand that she is quite hot and she's got money. right? This is my resume.

Have you seen my face? And fundamentally, so if you can come to the attention of the court and you might come to the attention of the court if you're from a wealthy background lending money, that's a really big one. That's a really big one. The court is funny because they're like, hello, I'm the king. I have lots of money. And it's like, oh, do you?

Because you also owe a lot of money to very people. So a big way that they come into contact with ordinary people is through money lending. and if you get a certain amount of money, you can make the hop into the nobility if you can just kind of get around the court. It is possible, right? We know that it's possible. And indeed, maybe she is, you know, the daughter of the lesser nobility. And so once her husband has kicked it, she can kind of like work some connections. And we kind of don't know exactly how she gets in to Philippa's role. retinue, right? And because there are some schools of thought that say, well, she got into the retinue and then the affair begins. But then there are other schools of thought that say

he saw her one day, said Awuga, and then like put her into the retinuey. Oh, yeah, that happens lots. Like that happened. That's how Anne Boleyn ended up in Kathna Varegan's little flock. That happens loads, doesn't it? That was a move of Charles II as well, was to find someone you fancy and then make them hang out with his wife. Exactly. And so, listen, let's be so for real. He's like 55 and she's about 18. See, we wouldn't put up with that today, would we? We would be me-toeing the king, quite frankly.

As we say in Shaktauya, probably Matizki, okay? It's, we got an age gap, all right? Like, that's what's going on. There is an age gap, yes. Yeah. I'm sure she was very mature for her age. She's about to be. We'll tell you that much, right, okay. And listen also fundamentally, we are seeing her come on the scene around the end of Philippa's life.

She is incredibly ill. She's incredibly ill. We don't know exactly what's going on with her. Might have been dropsy, many such cases. Might have been, she's got a bad case of the gout, which again, many such cases. And it's really, yeah, it's really immobilizing if you've got it badly. Some people say that she's broken her collarbone. Look, it's bad, right? And so she's... It could be anything, couldn't it? And like, leave this woman alone, frankly, do not be pointing your privy parts at this woman. She needs rest and to like, you know, get ready to meet the Lord, which is which is what queens are kind of trained to do, right?

So it's in this particular case that we see Alice enter the record. How she's she? get there? We don't know. Right. We don't know. There are many, many roads. Yeah, I mean, being hot, one way or another, right? She was hot. She was hot. Yeah. But then we, RIP to Philippa, 1369, nice, we lose her. And after her death, Edward was like, well, the wife's dead, so I don't really feel a reason to act like I'm not shagging this incredibly hot young lady because why would I not flaunt this, right? And, you know, fair play. And he begins to just shower my girl with presents.

Now, again, this is something his family does, okay? Arguably the reason that his dad gets kicked off the throne is not because of all the boyfriends. Like, Isabella marries him while he has a boyfriend. Everybody liked that boyfriend. That boyfriend dies. He gets a new boyfriend and starts showering said boyfriends. boyfriend with gifts. And it's like you can't take, yeah, like you can't just like take lands off of the

other nobles to give to your boyfriend. And that's when everyone gets really bent out of shape, right? Same thing with Isabella. Isabella gets rid of Edward II. And everyone was like, okay, great, because I didn't like how all my lands were getting stolen. And she's like, I am going to, I'm going to lightly steal some of your lands and give them to my boyfriend, Roger Mortimer. And then everyone's like, come on. Like, what is going on? And then we got Edward the third and he's like, have you bet my girlfriend. She's expensive, is Alice Perez. She is high maintenance in a way that I couldn't even begin to fathom this woman.

Listen, I mean, again, one of the best to ever do it. The stuff of every working class girls' dreams, let me tell you this, 56, that's five, six manners. She's got like castles. She's got townhouses. she has got them in over 25 counties. Well played, Alice. 15 of these are kind of like direct presence from the king.

And so I'm like, where'd the other 10 come from? She's like, I don't bought him. Got more houses than anyone could ever possibly live in. You could live in a different house each week for a year. How many counties do you really need to live in? If you're Alice, there's no upper limit. I mean, I guess this is the thing. It's just like, how on tour are we exactly?

I'm tired just thinking about it. Like, come on, I can barely get down Jim. I'll be back with Eleanor and Alice after this short break. So real estate is rolling in. What else does Alice like? Well, by all accounts, jewels. This is one of her big things. And, like, she's so real for this.

Okay. She is given some of Philippa's jewels, and that may have been some that were left by Philippa to the other damsels. Alice. Scali work. He just imagined just turning up at the court, all these people grieving for Philippa, and this bitch shows up just in her jewelry. It's like, well, I'm off to one of my many townhouses.

Like, listen, oh, there's my tiara, right? Like, I don't know. Alice! I mean, and it's like quite the scandal, right? Because especially if you're up jumped, like, it wouldn't be the first time we've had like an upjump mistress. They're, they're 10 a penny. But being able to amass this kind of fortune is quite something. I mean, let's-

And she really does amass of fortune. Oh, yeah. She's got up about like 20,000 pounds. And that's like in our money, that's millions. That's like millions and millions of pounds. Is it right that like people would come to her to ask for funding? to go on Crusade, so she has enough money to fund wars. Yeah, so it's like the Northern Crusade is happening right now, and this is kind of like the push to Christianize the people in the Baltics.

So they're trying to make Estonia Christian, for example. And so that's the Teutonic Knights. They need a lot of money because they have to set up castles. And she's like, yeah, absolutely. Because like my girl's the wealthiest woman in England at this point in time. She is kind of like giving to religious causes. But this is also, I think, really interesting. because here's these guys being like, oh, wow, we're such Christians. We've really got to Christianize the Estonians. Oh, babe, like, please give us money. And it's like, the mistress, the unmarried mistress of the king.

And you're just like, yeah, sure, any port in a storm, right? Wow. Well, Alice sounds delightful. I can't imagine anybody objecting to this. Well, I mean, listen, my girl has got her feet under the table so firmly. She's got three kids with Edward. Oh, does she? Okay, well played.

Well played. So it's like, what are you going to do? Like they're, and it, they would hardly be the first fits is around the shop, right? We've got a ton of those, right? So one of her big, like, triumphs, big public triumphs comes to us in 1372. And there's a big tournament in Smithfield here in London, which is where we have our tournaments. And we have Alice presented as the Lady of the Sun. Bring back tournaments. Bring back tournaments. Well, I've not seen anyone presented. as the Lady of the Sun recently. I want to see a headdress. I want to see the girlies out here. And Alice gets, you know, brought out big gold headdress, you know, the works. And this is kind of like a weird gray area, right? Because like ordinarily, obviously, while you are having a big tournament, we should have the queen, right? It's a queen gig.

Mm-hmm. And if you don't have a queen, then what you want is that, the wife of the heir to the throne. Oh. Because, like, listen, we all, you've got a hot girlfriend. We can all see that. Is she an actual functionary at the court? Like, these are people with jobs, right?

Like, this is what they do. And we do have, like, a daughter-in-law that could have taken, we've got Joan of Kent, right? So it's like, probably Joan of Kent should have been up there. Or, like, it is not as though Edward does not have several daughters. They must have been seething. And you know what? They've got to be probably like older than Alice.

Like let's be so for real. The balls of this woman. And like she kind of understands that people don't really like her. And so she's like, okay, look, I've got a lot of money. I've got these kids. But also my boyfriend is very much older than me. And everyone does seem to hate me for things like, you know, insisting on being the lady of the sun at the tournament.

What I am going to do is I'm going to get myself a backup plan. I love her so much. So she goes and she gets herself secretly married to... It's 1375. She marries Sir William de Windsor. And he's kind of like the deputy of Ireland at this point because she's looking over at Edward. Edward, he's on his way out. Like, it's going downhill.

I see the thinking, but like she's got so much money as well. Like, you don't need a man, Alice. Why that move? She can just go, I've got 56 manor houses and, you know, more money than anyone else. Well, I mean, listen, again, this family, they giveeth and they takeeth away, baby. So it's like, yeah. That is true. While you've got your paramour on the throne, that's absolutely fine.

But when the kids come in, they could just be like, yeah, ha, ha, that's cute. That tells me that she knew that his family. family absolutely loathed her. And the second they came into power, she would be out with a very harsh kick. Yeah, because if you feel completely stable in where you are, if you think, oh, well, this is absolutely fine. Everybody loves me. I've had like three kids with the king.

You're not going to need to be making plays like this because everything would be fine. But she's been pushing the boat out. There should be no reason why you have any official business. going on at tournament. You should be sitting in the back looking pretty and smiling, right? That's the thing. And fundamentally, she ends up marrying Sir William because she needs the support at court because everybody hates her, right? And Windsor does too, right? Like, he is in kind of a shaky position financially. So he needs money, which Alice has, right? And she needs someone at court. who's actually going to be like, yeah, she's with me.

You can't kick her out right now. Like, you can't, I see the king is dead. You can't go take her manor houses. I'm a guy with an army. Yes, okay, I'm with you. I'm with you. But is there any record of what the king said when his most favorite mistress that he showered money, all of his money upon,

just fucks off and marry someone else? Well, no, because she's keeping it a secret. Listen, she's not telling Edward. Why would it be any of his business who she's married? Right. I have a life outside of you. Honestly. Like what's a girl to do, right?

So, yeah. But the other thing is what it's like, so she's married this guy, but we do need to, and you touched on it there, like Edward is getting poorly. And when you say like poorly, it's not just physically poorly. Like his mental state seems to be deteriorating as well. And I don't know if this is just Alice Slander, but there are things in the records that she would pull stunts of like demanding that he buys her a load of jewels. And then when he does and when they arrive, she'd go up to him again and go, where are all the jewels? They did, they,

they never showed up. So she's kind of manipulative. It's not funny. Stop it. Like, it does she's I actually think it's very funny to rip off kings. But, you know, like, it's so bad. It's so bad, Alice. It's just, it's elder abuse is what this is. Listen, it is elder abuse, but on the other hand, are royals people I don't know silly twat I don't know if that's true but I know that there are records

of doing that he's getting progressively more and more sick and she's just fucked off and married some other guy and isn't telling him and is now fleecing him

for everything that she possibly can because she knows he's about to shuffle loose this mortal coil and like listen people it's not just

you know the the profligacy It's not just like the obvious scheming. Fundamentally, one of the things that's going to happen when you are a royal mistress is you are going to be compared to the queen whose place you theoretically taken, right? And so the smart ones stay under the radar. They stay out of the way. Like they take the money and everything, but they just, right? And Philippa was really popular.

You know, she's seen as kind of the consummate queen. You know, she had been a really, really, really. good regent. She had been very good at managing the royal finances. And again, this is like very, very crucial at this point in time because of how bad this family is with finances. Right. So one of the big things that the English people want to see is that you're not dicking them around financially right now, like that you're not, that you're not just spending money on castles and jubles and going hunting. Right. And Philippa really understood that. You know, she plays a blinder during the beginning of the

Hundred Years' War. Right? She's really steady. She is in communication with all the varying houses of Europe. And also my woman had a uterus like a clown car. Okay. Twelve. Did she?

Yeah. Twelve. No, she's died of exhaustion. I mean, like, I'd die just to get out of it. No, thank you. Twelve. Twelve. Okay. Holy moly. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And then like, so everyone really sees what Philippa had managed to do. They're really aware of how she is this consummate queen. And she's really sacrificed herself for this relationship, for the realm. She's doing the right thing. And then there's Alice. And then there's Alice who's like, hi, babes. I'm the lady of the sun, you know. It's turning up. We're just like, oh, you know, like a diamond necklace that says Philippa, Philippa won on it. You know, like, I don't know. This girl had a strawberry ice vape in the 14th century. Somehow we don't know how she got it. Right. It's just like, she's a menace.

Mm-hmm. All that work that Philip put into being, you know, steadying the ship and getting people back on side and winning over the reputation that the royal family just waste money. Enter Alice. And she's like, oh, you thought that was wasted money? Let me show you how to waste money, right? Let me show you. And he or she is just like sitting on the lap of Edward who doesn't know where he is.

Right. She's also really using this position to like make moves, right? So it's like, okay, so he gives her 15 of her estates. Well, how does she get the other 10? Well, she's doing some light interference with the courts. Yeah. Right? Like she's 100% pulling strings behind the scenes so that any time a court case is up against her or any of her friends.

Because like, let's also be real. She seems like a really good time. She just seemed like she's fun. Some people really hate her and some people are like, love all this. Like, I heard, I heard that we were getting manners and also drunk. And like, you know, some people do do flock to that, right? So she is making sure that like the money gets shared around. Like she understands that she's going to have to make at least some connections.

Some friends. And you know, at this point in time, it's generally assumed that like if you try to bring a court case against her. And to be clear in the medieval period, court cases are just about property, right? Like, you know, in theory, if someone murders someone, you end up going to court about it, not that often. To be honest, courts exist in order to prosecute land cases. and so if you're like that was my land and she's taken over it

no court is going to find in your favor because she's untouchable really and this kind of like all comes to her head in 1374 and she ends up

in a property dispute with the abbot of the Priory of St. Albans what are you doing? It was just a She's like these monks and Anne. I think they've had far too much land, I think, quite frankly, they should be giving some of it to me.

And this is like one of these really, really storied monasteries as well. It's attached to the cathedral in St. Albans. This is like, you know, St. Albans is one of like our very first British saints. This is like one of these places that has been a center for religion in England since like a year dot, right? Like since Verilamia, right? when it was owned by the Romans. And she's trying to move in.

Yeah. And she's like, no, I think you'll find that's actually my land. Right. And it's like, baby, this is not Henry the 8th, right? Like, you can't just take land from monks. But, you know, the abbot of St. Albans is like, well, I'm a really powerful monk. Let me just take this to court. She goes to court and sits there like this, presumably vaping the entire time.

And she's just like staring down the judges like, and she wins right it's ridiculous what the fuck she's just gonna move his little side pieces piece of ass

into a fucking monastery because she doesn't have enough places to live already it's outrageous listen she doesn't have anything in middle sex babes so you know like I don't I don't know right

I know well God bless her but like listen I don't know if this comes as any surprise, but like eventually this is all going to come crashing to an end. I'll be back with Eleanor and Alice after this short break. But it does lead to one of the most amazing laws ever passed in the history of Parliament that just absolutely creases me every single time I read it. So please do tell how Alice eventually gets taken down.

Okay, yes. So we do have this situation where our next king to come onto the throne is one of our worst, Richard the second. And I'm just like, we're just saying something at this point in time. But he's like a kid, right? So we need, you know, groups of people around him at the time to kind of like make sure that we keep the ship on a steady keel. Sometimes his uncles are too involved. You know, we've got Alice running a mug. And then we have the establishment of what we call the good part. who comes in to be like, everybody needs to calm down and we're going to get things back in line, right? So they're like, we are going to be bringing some light charges of corruption against a few royals. And Alice is one. So as a part of this, because Alice is so good at intimidating courts, they pass this law that says, women are not allowed in law courts. You may not practice law. You may not like come in here.

And so this is like one of the bad things that happens as a result of her. Because previous to this, of course women could practice law. Like of course there were like women lawyers. Like of course that like women are prosecuting things all the time. It just takes one bad bitch. Like this whole situation. Can I read it out loud that what was actually passed? Please do.

Yes. It's so incredible. Right, so this is what was passed. Because a complaint was made to the king that some women have pursued various business and disputes in the king's courts by way of maintenance bribing and influencing the parties. Which thing displeases the king, the king forbids any woman to do it, and especially Alice Paris.

It's so good. Look, it's so funny. On penalty of whatever the same. that perors can forfeit and being banished from the realm. The fact they put her name in it, no one can do this, Alice. And she just stood there and just like, what?

It's like 100% like the no Alice club. Right. No Alice is absolutely not. And, you know, they bring in this law and they're like, I swear to God, girl, if you come in here, we're going to take everything and you're going to get banished. She does get banished.

She is banished, right? So, like, by June of 1376, she is told to, like, get out of here and that you're not allowed to see the king anymore. And this is something that tends to happen when you are a kind of annoying royal mistress and a king starts to get ill a lot of times that we're like, yeah, girl, you got to go. Right? And that happens a lot. And like sometimes it's really sad. Like we have instances, for example, like we're one of the Louies in France, like, had a real love affair with one of his mistresses who was kind of nice. And he's like on his deathbed being like, may I see her?

And the queen is like, nope. Oh, that was Madame de Barry. That happened there, I think, that she was just, he was down a small pox or something. And she was just booted out. And he was really sad about it. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, so we have this happen, like over and over again. So they're like, sorry, but you're not coming anywhere near this man.

especially while he's dying, right? But then in October, she's allowed back. This is a... This is kind of let in... We have a bit of a flux situation. The Black Prince has just died down in France. We have John of Gaunt returned to England, and he's like, look, a lot of things were being said in haste, right?

Like, you know, and I think maybe, you know, people can come back. Let's see... Let's see which way the wind is blowing. A lot of people are dying. Maybe she'll behave herself this time. No. So officially then the banishment is like back, right?

And we suddenly are finding out that Alice is married to Windsor. Oh, is it forgotten that bitch? She's married to someone else. So this is, it's all to play for it right now. Like everyone is kind of like, oh, did this bitch get married? And she's like, I don't know, could it be? How would you know because I'm banished? Right.

So it's 1377 and Edward dies. Okay. On the 21st of June, a day that lives in all of our hearts because we all just love Edwards and Third so much, obviously. And the rumor is that like she went in there on his deathbed and it was like, oh, honey, I love you so much. And then like, it's just like ripping the rings off his fingers. Whether or not this is true.

But just show you how people thought of her though, that that would be a rumor that could circulate at the time that people go, you all out tracks, that track. Exactly, exactly. Like, it's one of these things where, like, the fact that the rumor even exists tells us a lot. Like, whether or not this is true, we're not sure. But the stories, like, you know, people are not going to be able to tell that story about

me because people would be like, Eleanor, right? Like, that would be, it wouldn't track, right? But fundamentally you can do it about Alice, right? And so she then gets banished again, you know, which is fine and normal. She kind of thought this was going to come, right? And then she gets put on trial for attempting to pervert the course of justice, which, to be fair, yeah, like, she's guilty, right? She kind of had it coming. Yeah, she kind of had that coming.

She did. Yeah. She did. And then you had a good run. But yeah, you had that. But fundamentally, you live by the sword, you die by the sword, right? Like, you can kind of get away with this stuff for a while, but you have to make sure that you cultivate enough of a support group within the court that isn't going to come back to bite you.

That was her failing. That's where she fell down. Too close to the sun, girl, right? And so as a result of this court case, her lands are confiscated, right? And so that is going to make it even more difficult for her to come back, right? because banishments have a really hard time of sticking if there is some kind of land which in theory you ought to be managing right because you don't just own these lands it is kind of like in theory something that you need to be doing right um yes but then somehow Alice Paris Richards right like in 1378 Windsor is like hey everyone by the way we were married two years ago uh before the king died and as a result really fun piece of

legislature here you shouldn't have prosecuted her as an independent woman right like this should have been something that you did to me because as a result of covature when a woman gets married it should be the husband that's taken to court not the wife because

you used to be a person legally small print small prints yes yeah okay did did that work Well, I mean, they are like, okay, I guess you're banished. Like, what? Like, what? I don't know what this is doing.

Right. And then, like, basically we get to, in May 1379, the royal treasurer Thomas Brantingham comes up. And he's like, hey, look, here are like these pearls that I've like confiscated from Alice. Someone counted them. Would you like to know how many pearls? Oh, God. I don't have any pearls. So I'm going to be impressed with how many pearls had Alice got?

21,868. Enough, girl. Enough. I own some pearls, right? Fuck, man. That's all the pearls. Yeah. And so they're like, yeah, okay, like, I guess we're giving these back to the...

She's outrageous. But actually, Winters played a blinder. Because in 1380, everyone says, well, yeah, I guess actually kind of these lands belong to him. Like legally, legally, right? Because you can get Alice on intimidating the court. Okay. But you can't get Windsor because he wasn't in there vaping. Yes.

And staring everyone in the eyes. And technically they were his lands because, you know, women because women are people. Right. People. That's right. That's right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Real ones know. God, she's a fighter, isn't she? Like, at any point, I would have packed my stuff up and gone,

you know what? You're absolutely right. I've had a very good run at this, but I am now, off I will fuck. I will now fuck off somewhere else and just live in privileged obscurity. Does she keeps coming back for more? She does, but then, like, listen to me, it kind of all goes wrong at the end because Windsor dies in 1384. And so Alice, obviously, she's like, great. Back to it. Like, I love to be a widow, widow life, you know, et cetera.

But Windsor had left all his lands in a trust to his nephew. Oh, no. He's a bad man. It's like Anna Nicole Smith. Oh, no. Like, I think I'm like, I actually, I'm like, that is shady because those weren't your lands worthy, honey. like she worked for this

Oh Oh the system got her Oh Listen that man never jacked off a geriatric king A day in his life She worked Yeah she worked for that Yeah good lord

You know the least she could get is 21,8168 pearls She should have had more monasteries Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Oh no Alice Oh yeah wasted by a room Patard But like she starts prosecuting these cases again

It's like, she goes to the Noalysis Club and she's like, how about now, gee? Like, what about this? And like, she does get some judgments overturned and she does get some of her lands back. But not, you know, like, you know, never, never all the way. And she makes it to 1,400. She dies in the winter of 1,400. So that's a good innings. She gets like 16 years without her husband.

How was that? Well, we don't really know when she was born, but she's. Yeah. X-D is okay. Which is pretty good. I'm impressed with Alice, even if no one else is. And she got some of her lands back, but I mean, my God, she had a hell of the time. Like, look, and it's one of these things where we don't get to know that much about what happens afterwards because, like, no one wants to talk about this, right?

Like, the chroniclers aren't being like, oh, and we love, like, even if you don't like Alice, if you're a chronicler, you're not going to write. all of this stuff down because it's kind of embarrassing to the royal family. So the way that history is recorded at this time is basically you pay someone to write nice things about your family. And so they're just going to admit all of this stuff as a result. This is highly embarrassing that basically the royal treasury got turned over to a teenager while the king was just wandering around in his nightshirt, not really sure what's going on. Exactly. And so like the major way that we know about her as through court cases because, you know, obviously she keeps coming up in those. And like, shout-outs are her daughters. Her daughters keep like trying to prosecute Windsor's nephew

and being like, that's my mommy's lands from all the king jack-and-off. Wow. So it went from, well, yeah, don't you tell me that's not not work? So let's listen, we all know that the greatest royal mistress of all time is Camilla. That is just, I mean, like the best ever do it. Yeah. Yeah. the best to ever play the game because she got to be queen and precious few of them did

and when they did it often didn't go well and Berlin right so Camilla there's still time but as far as we know it is she people take kind of a

interview on that stuff now yeah yeah absolutely so it goes Camilla right Camilla's sort of like number one at the top absolutely at the top where's Alice you know she's kind of

I think we got to say like top five. I got to say top five. I mean, I think that she hits some of the highest highs, but her lows are pretty. I mean, she survives, right?

Yeah, a lot of them don't do that. A lot of them don't survive. So like I think that she's got to have to be top five, right? Like, I mean, she's got to be one of the richest. She's got to,

because like the king just literally handed over the royal treasury to this woman. Including, including monasteries where saints are buried. So she'd have some letter, you know, for her chihuahua to live or whatever she was doing. And like fundamentally, like, let's be so real. Like, is Hader not another word for fan? Right. Like, why is Parliament so obsessed with her?

Why are you writing laws about me? She's going to be the only mistress to have to be named in law. It's just like, especially Alice Perez. It's like, I have nothing. but respect for a woman who was annoying enough that like the courts start getting involved, right? Like one of the best ever play the game. So, yeah.

Top five. I'm calling her top five. Top five. Yeah. I think she's got to be, she's got to be one of the richest. So yeah, she's up there. Oh, Eleanor, you are, you are my top one, quite frankly, and thank you so much for coming to us.

No, I don't think we treat. in this subject quite with the reverence that it does. I don't know. Look, it's what she would have wanted, right? It's what she would have wanted. Listen, if, if 626 years after my death to grade A baddies were talking about me, I'd be delighted, frankly. That's the legacy that I'm looking for.

And if people do want to talk about you, if they want to know more about you, where can they find you, Eleanor? Oh, come on over to go. medieval you know um i don't get to say the words jacking off as much there as i would like to but that's that's why they let me out to come talk to kate they're like let her get it out of her system you're fine thank you thank you so much you've been marvelous you're the best thanks kate thank you for listening and thank you so much to eleanor for joining us how much fun is she we love helena and if you like what you heard don't forget to like with you and follow along whatever

it is you get your podcasts coming up we are going to find out just how filthy Leonardo da Vinci, Michael Anjo and Machiavelli would have been in the Renaissance period. And if you'd like us to explore a subject or if you just wanted to say hello, then you can email us at betwixtat history hit.com. This podcast was edited by Hannah Theodore of, Hannah Theodore of and produced by Sophie G. The Senior Producer was Freddie Chick. Join me again, Betwixtor Sheets, the History of Sex, Scandal and Society, a podcast by History Hit. This podcast contains music from Epidemic Sound.