Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - Prison Plastic Surgery

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Facelifts, liposuction and nose jobs: since the mid 20th century people have saved up to have their faces and bodies transformed into their dreams.But why might these procedures have been offered in prisons across the US, the UK and Canada? And what was the desired outcome?Today, Kate is joined by Zara Stone, author of Killer Looks: The Forgotten History of Plastic Surgery in Prisons to discuss re-conviction rates, ‘pretty privilege’ and the so called ‘hot felon’.*WARNING there are discussions of race, adult words and themes in this episode*Produced by Charlotte Long and Sophie Gee. Mixed by Thomas Ntinas.Betwixt the Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society. A podcast by History Hit.Email us with your subject ideas at [e-mail]. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. My lovely betwixters, it's me, Kate Lister. I am here with your fair do's warning to protect your delicate ears from anything untoward getting into them. So here we go. Fair do's, you have been warned. This is an adult podcast containing adult themes,

which is spoken by adults to other adults about adult subjects in an adulty way. Today, we are talking about plastic surgery, specifically plastic surgery that is given to people in. prison. Honestly, it's a bonkers subject. I had no idea. So, you just might not want to get on board with that today, in which case, this is your opportunity right now, this very second, get out, go and listen to the archers or something, don't continue listening to us. And if you get mad, then you can't be mad with us, because fair dues, you have been warned. In 2014, a mugshot went

viral across the world. Staring intensely into the camera lens was a steely, blue-eyed, cheek-boned, a bodiless tattooed man. The world was smitten. And he was gleefully named the Hot Felon. The hot felon's real name was actually Jeremy Meeks, a 31-year-old who'd been charged for gun possession and resisting arrest in California. I mean, I guess we all love a bad boy,

but that's taking it a bit far. Since his bookshop made him famous, he's been signed by a top modelling agency. He's strutted his stuff on some of the most prestigious catwalks in the world. and he had a relationship with Chloe Green, daughter of millionaire businessman Philip Green. And he can still see him photographed on super yachts and wearing designer clothing and just looking all modally and gorgeous. Some would say that this is an example of pretty privilege in action. And pretty privilege is something that we are going to be doing a lot of thinking about today, betwixt the sheets.

How does how you look affect your life? And in particular, how does what you look, how does what you look, looked like linked to criminality and why? It's so mad but this actually happened was prison plastic surgery developed in the early 1900s and did it really lower the rate of reconviction and help ex-prisoners reintegrate back into society. What do you look for in a man? Oh money of course. You're supposed to rise when an adult speaks to you. I make perfect copies of whatever my boss needs by just turning it up and pushing you. Yes, social courtesy does make a difference.

Goodness, for a beautiful time. Goodness has nothing to do with it, Dary. Hello, and welcome back to Patrick the Sheets, the History of Sex Scandal and Society. With me, Kate Lister. Today, I am joined by journalist and writer Zara Stone to talk about the history of prison plastic surgery. How do early surgeries like this tie into the eugenics movement?

What was the most common procedure being given to prisoners? and exactly what is going on today. Well, here on Betwixt the Sheets, we wanted to get some answers as well. Enjoy. Welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only Zara Stone. How are you? Yeah, very well, thank you.

I'm so excited to talk to you today because this is, I love all of the guests. I love everything I talk about. But ones that I really like is ones that I've never heard of this subject. before. I didn't even know that this was a thing until your work. And it's one of those ones where you keep going back and you keep rereading it going, no. No, that's not right. That can't have been a thing.

That can't have been an actual. And it was. And we are talking about the forgotten history, as your book is titled, of prison plastic surgery. Yeah. So prison plastic surgery. It's the history of around half a million plastic surgeries in prisons across America, Canada, and the UK. And these are the kind of surgeries that were really more of a cosmetic nature.

I mean, we're talking nose jobs, facelifts, breast implants, like stuff that, you know, under no consideration could really be under the whole like, oh yeah, medical necessity. So this wasn't like somebody who was in a prison fight and their nose got damaged and now they need surgery? No. I mean, people who did end fights and needed surgery, you know, this was covered. But generally that was more like, let's just get it back in place, not let's make. it more aesthetically pleasing. It just seems like such a mad phenopter. Okay, why were they doing this?

That's a really good place to start. Why would somebody go into prisons and give people plastic surgery? Like, were they experimenting? Was that it? It was like experimental facelifts. So that was what I thought originally, because I was like, why would they do this? You know, prisons are notoriously pretty horrible places. They receive really bad treatment.

Like, why literally are they going to prisons and doing this? No, like this was the astounding part to me. The reasons they were getting these free treatment was to lower the reoffending rate. The idea that, you know, when you come out of prison, around 70% of people pretty much end up back within the first couple of years. And they were the whole, like, maybe we can benefit

from the beauty bias. You know, the idea of a socio-economic power of beauty and how this really helps people get ahead in life. I don't know what to say to it. It's so bonkers. Well, okay, a good place to go from here. We need to talk about what's called Pretty Privilege, don't we? And what is that?

So this is the idea. And, you know, it's not like one of those out there ideas that really, like, how somebody looks, really gives them advantages in life. And, you know, in terms of Pretty Privilege, this kind of goes under the whole lookism, you know, appearance bias in terms of how you look. And Pretty Privilege is basically more conventionally attractive people, like loads and loads of research shows.

They get treated better in schools. they earn more in the workplace. In the courtroom, they generally get, like, lower sentences, lower fines. Like, this covers people throughout the entirety of their life. And that's properly established in research. I suppose that does make sense. I mean, if you're talking to someone who's very good-looking and that you are attracted to, you are nicer,

or maybe I've just revealed too much about myself. I mean, no, it's true. And, I mean, one of the things that really shocked me was in schools, because I think a lot of teachers would be really surprised to know they have this unconscious bias, but the data shows that they will spend more time with conventionally attractive students. You know, when they act out, they're spirited, they're not troubled. And it's just this kind of thing that permeates. You know, they'll get more time in tests. In all these many little microways throughout the course of their educational career, they get significant advantages.

Wow. Okay. So it starts in school. It starts really young. And this will shape a person's life that if you are a conventionally attractive person, better jobs, more money, better prospects. Are people always aware that they're doing this? Because it sounds, like when you just spell it out like that, it sounds really mean that because someone's pretty, you go, oh, here you go, have more stuff. But is it subconscious. I mean, I think, especially in schools, it generally is subconscious. You know, I like to think that teachers aren't like, oh, I'm going to, you know, give more time to be attractive kid. Oh, God. Yes. And I mean, for everyone on, I think it becomes a bit more obvious. Specifically, like some professions, like marketing, you know, being conventionally attractive

really helps you engage with people and talk with people. So people are a little more conscious of it there. But, you know, even in really random jobs where you sit behind a computer, it still plays a part in hiring. Are there any laws around this now? I mean, now that it's been, like, established as a fact is that this happens. Are there any discrimination laws in force about this? So some of this kind of comes under kind of more, some of the larger laws. but go with racism and ageism and sexism. But these aren't really very specific to attractiveness. So if you don't fall under, you know, like the racism,

ageism, or sexism bracket, you know, it's very hard to be like, oh, well, she was hired because she was a 8 out of 10 and I'm a 5 out of 10. That's true. I suppose we do have laws around appearance discrimination, I suppose, don't we? I mean, there's some, but this is kind of really like murky territory. It is, isn't it? It is confusing. I mean, we have a sort of more kind of, you know, fat acceptance movement and body positivity.

And under kind of disability laws, I mean, a lot of my work really, you know, focused on America, but this kind of covers other places as well. So under disability laws, if you have, I don't know, a limp or if you have like, I don't know, some really big problems with your body, that would be kind of covered. But just the pure kind of attractive aesthetic appearance, there are very few places that even try to legislate this. And the ones that do, there's a place in Australia, there's a random town in California. Even then, there's, like, incredibly few people ever file any kind of claim. Like, we're talking about under 10 a year. And of those, most will be dismissed.

I mean, like you said, it is really difficult to prove it, isn't it? How do you prove that? Because it's subjective. And as soon as someone turned around and goes, I don't find them attractive, that's really, yes, you do, that's really hard to prove, isn't it? I mean, it's almost impossible. Like, judges have dismissed cases. being like, but you know, by having me rule on this case, you'd be having me create a guideline for what is attractive or some kind of scale, which is individual, you know, to every person,

really, in terms of how we look and feel and interact with the world. There are discrimination laws around hair, aren't there, in some places. I thought that was about protecting predominantly people of colour and their sort of natural hair and braiding and occasionally hear that some poor kids been told to go home and do something else with their hair and it's horrible. There are laws about that now, aren't there? Yeah, so in the states, they call it the Crown Act. And I think it's been enacted in almost every state right now. And that's essentially, yeah, to protect natural hair. But, you know, again, that does kind of broadly under appearance, but appearance is so multifaceted that, like, we're now

having, like, little segments that are kind of protected, but, like, overall, there isn't any, like, one rule that is, like, you know, if I'm not pretty, you, like, can't discriminate against me. Who would want to, you've got like, you know, body positivity and all that stuff. Who's going to stand up be like, I'm not attractive. I deserve rights too. That's really difficult, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's a really uncomfortable place to be. And the reason it's so uncomfortable is because inherently I feel like a lot of us just know that

we don't want to be considered ugly because we just sort of really do understand the societal benefits of, you know, appearing attractive. So where does this come from? And there's a long history, isn't there, of demonizing people with disabilities? and disfigurements. It's something like even films and books and television and the idea that if you are somehow physically deformed, not talking about just being ugly here, but physically deformed,

that that has a link with being a bad person. There's quite a long history of that, isn't there? There's an enormous history. And it almost goes back to the Bible in a way where, you know, people who are considered unclean. And unclean when you go to, you know, the pure biblical definition would be, I think people with scars on their face.

are people who are considered misshapen. And, you know, if you fell into those brackets, you weren't allowed on the holy ground or in the temple. I mean, there's a lot of problems with the Bible. So that's hardly like a, you know, this is a good starting point. It's not even, wouldn't even make the top ten, would it, that one? But I didn't know that. I thought that literally meant you need to go and have a wash.

No, I mean, because there's a bunch of different translations. And a lot of the translations, well, we'll literally talk about like scarred faces and kind of spell it out in that way where people who are displaced. pleasing to the eye or to God, you know, shouldn't be in kind of public company. God, I didn't know that. There's such a strong link with this that wasn't it recently a film company said that they would no longer cast people with disfigurements as the villain, because there's such a long, like if you think of every Bond villain, you know, the gold teeth and scars across their faces,

they've all got disfigurements. Absolutely. And actually, that was a British film institute. And that was one of the most positive things for change that I've seen in a while. And this is because of all the stereotyping. People who have scars on their faces, people who have very pale skin and are considered ghostly are often represented as the villains in all this kind of in Disney films, like crooked noses, all these kinds of stuff. And so by the British Film Institute being like, we're no longer going to fund this, it's essentially saying, don't be lazy. Don't just, you know, be like, oh, this is a bad person because they have a scar, creating all these assumptions that permeate our culture.

and, you know, from a very young age, kind of seep into people in the idea of like what's good, what's bad, and really trying to reshape the narrative. Like, and it's going to take a while because, you know, this is just, you know, them. And we have so much culture and videos and books. But it's a great starting place. I mean, that's really positive, isn't it? Do you think that they'll do something about casting people with British accents as the villain? Or maybe there's some truth to that.

Maybe they looked at it and they went, actually, that's fair enough to be completely. Talk to me a little bit about some of the 19th century theories around physiognomy and our favourite, Cesar Lombroso, and about this idea that if you were a bad person or a morally bad person, you would look it. There'd be something on you. You'd be a look at them and go, they're wrong. So this is one of his really dangerous theories. And Cesar Lombroso, you know, he was this Italian doctor and he kind of went around. and there was a point where he was doing an autopsy for this bandit,

like this guy who'd been around robbing people, and he was examining him, and he was like, oh, his skull is like really thick. It's very primitive. I feel like he resembles an ape. And then it was like, oh, light bulb, does this mean that, you know, every criminal is kind of going to be primitive and ape-like?

And perhaps we can then understand what the criminal type is. And, I mean, the larger idea was like, wouldn't it be nice if you could kind of predict somebody who was going to be a criminal before they did something? and thus preventing crime. And so he went... I mean, I get that. Yeah.

And I mean, like, conceptually, well, that would be nice. But actually, like, I mean, well, one, it's absolutely like bunk science and, like, does not exist. And he went around and he measured the skulls of what he called, like, morally good men and women, which was mostly, you know, college students. And by morally good, just that they were in college, basically. So, oh, they had money and predominantly white. And, you know, and then he went into a bunch of prisons and, you know, measured the skulls of like people there and like surprise surprise there were like some big differences for instance

a lot of criminals you know they would have jutting brows and larger noses a lot of things to do with discrimination at the time where people in southern Italy were you know considered more criminal at the time they were in prisons more and so really kind of creating almost a like a wire frame for discrimination and racism of like what a bad archetype was and this you'd like to think that this was sort of one lone crank Italian man wandering around coming up with these ideas. But it wasn't this really caught on this theory, didn't it? That you can look at somebody's body and that criminals will look a certain way and promiscuous women would just look a certain way that it would be on their bodies. And this became really widespread in the 19th century. Absolutely. And I mean, this is kind of a

precursor to the eugenics movement. And, you know, that was like the larger idea of like maybe we can, you know, call the herd by getting rid of bad people, which meant, you know, killing or sterilizing people to try and, you know, just create a society of, like, really good moral people. And this, like, you know, this trait really spread everywhere. And people started, I mean, it's not so much that people necessarily needed a reason to discriminate. I think people have always had their own biases. And this is something they could hook onto and be like, well, this is science. Like, you know, eugenics was, you know, studied at Harvard, studied at Stanford. So this was a way to, to a portion blame for many of the troubles in life

and to be like, well, you know, it's not me, you know, blaming my new neighbours who took my job. It's science that says this is a problem. Is this like when my mum would look at some of my exes and say, I never liked him, his eyes are too shifty? Is that like a... Is that a leftover legacy of this, this idea that you can look at someone and go,

yeah, they're wronging. Yeah, I mean, I think it's that idea. I think it's also the whole mother knows best as well. That's true. She was always right as well. It's very depressing. So how are we going to get from here, Caesar Lombroso and a whole bunch of others walking around measuring skulls and eye distances? How do we get from there to someone going, oh my God, we should give prisoners plastic surgery?

What is that? How does that happen? Yeah, and, you know, it is a massive leap. And you have to remember also, you know, in the early century, like, plastic surgery was in its infancy. Like, it didn't really exist, you know, till the 1920s or really evolved until the 1940s. both of these were hooked on the World Wars because this is when people got a really massive step up in how to operate on all the wounds. But, you know, during the early part of that century,

there were some prison commissioners who really had a very sympathetic outlook to people under their care. You know, you definitely have the people being like, lock him up, but then you had other people being like, well, you know, poverty is one of the reasons people are in prison. Like, this is something to do with, like,

the social construct at the time rather than anything themselves. And I think in 1910, actually, in New York City, the prison commissioner there, he started giving kind of very soft plastic surgery to some other people in prisons. And one of the things that he said, and he said this to the media and he was kind of like mocked for it, was that, you know, often a man's physical condition makes it easier for them to steal a dollar than to earn one. Like essentially the idea that, you know, like if you, you, you know, were considered unattractive, like you really were at a disadvantage in the workplace. Was that Dr. Leo Stanley or was that somebody else? No, this was Henry Solomon. Dr. Leo Stanley, he was the medical doctor for San Quentin Prison in California.

And this was, you know, a similar kind of time frame. So across the states, different people all are having like an idea of like, oh, you know, maybe the reason someone is in prison is more than, you know, just what's written on paper. And he was this really maverick, eccentric doctor who was like very young when he became, came kind of chief of surgery at San Quentin Prison. And he would be walking around the yard and he would just be really be noticing how kind of scarred and bruised and battered

many of the men under his care were. I'll be back with Zara to talk more prison plastic surgery after this short break. Hi there. I'm Don Wildman, the host of the brand new podcast, American History Hit. Join me twice a week as I explore the past to help us understand the United States today. You'll hear how Code Breakers uncovered

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New episodes dropping every Monday and Thursday. So join me on American History Hit. a podcast by history hit. Like, we're talking scars and we're talking, I want to say facial disfigurements, but, you know, like saddle noses from fights and things, is that the kind of thing that he's talking about? Yeah, and he would be talking about salve noses. He would be talking about weak chins.

I think he actually did some liposuction. But what's interesting, actually, is that he didn't, these surgeries were something that were asked of him. So he literally had a couple of people come to him and be like, hey doctor, I'm going to be released next week. I'm like really scared that my wife won't love me, that my kid will be scared when she sees me, can you fix my face? And he had a lot of these interactions. And I know, we know about this because Dr. Stanley kept an insane amount of diaries. He like pretty much documented every single day in very minute detail. So we have a lot of

storytelling. And so after, you know, people came to him, he was like, okay, right? Well, I've never done a nose surgery before because it doesn't really exist. So, but we're going to try it anyway. What was the dates of this? Like, what are we talking with liposuction and nose jobs in the 1920s? Around the 1927 would be around the time that these started taking off in California prisons. What was a 1927 nose job and liposuction? It sounds terrifying. Oh, my God. I mean, they would be absolutely like bonkers. So, for one thing, we didn't really. have the kind of anaesthetic we have now. So often they would essentially chloroform somebody.

Shit. Oh, yeah. Okay. And to make sure they didn't wake up, they would have some of the other prisoners hold the patient down just in case, you know, they woke up, and there were a couple of cases of that. And this is quite experimental.

I mean, obviously there's other people doing these surgeries, but it's not a refined practice in 1927, right? So people must have got hurt. I mean, people did get hurt. I mean, there aren't any recommendations. of people dying, but there's definitely, you know, people kind of reporting discomfort, people who didn't, you know, have a glowing experience of it. There aren't many complaints in this period that I could find. Even though, for instance, one of the nose jobs, you know,

to do it, they essentially took a broom handle against somebody nose and, like, smashed it, and then, I think, filled in a bit of a depression with something from a toothbrush handle. Jesus Christ, you must really have to hate your nose to do that. All right, so he's clocking people's noses, and he's doing liposuction and scars. And what other kind of stuff is he doing? So he would do facelifts. And these were mostly on male prisoners. He called it, like, you know, lifting the, like, wrinkled, drooped brow.

So that would be common. I think he did some kind of, like, you know, what we were today called, like, laser skin resurfacing. But then I... Wow. It was probably more, like, just chemicals on the face rather than a kind of process. And he did some other really random stuff that doesn't fall into cosmetic surgery like implanting men with the testicles of dead men.

Yes, yes. I've written a little bit about that one. Well, you explain to me what was that? What was the theory behind that? I'm going to put testicles in your testicles. I mean, essentially it was kind of to give them virility and more energy, like people who had, you know, erection problems, people kind of with low energy,

Often these would be, you know, more elderly men, and it would be a, you know, a recently executed 20-something criminal, and the idea was that this will suddenly give them this, like, boost of vigor. And this was actually something that, like, was going on in other places in the States. This is something he learned from somebody else. It wasn't, like, his initial idea. I mean, that is, presumably they would have known who these testicles would have come from as well. Yeah, they would. I mean, everybody knows, they weren't that many executions that everyone in the prison didn't know,

okay, it's execution day. So yeah. Brilliant. Hashtag science, everybody. So if he's not whacking your nose about and grafting dead men's testicles into yours, I suppose here's the million dollar question. Did it work? Not the testicle thing. We know that that didn't work. Don't do that. Bad. Don't do that. Just have multivitamins. But did his plan to make people look better, give them a better life on the outside? Did it work? Well, he seemed to think so. And there are not very many, Records indicating either way. I mean, there is a very kind of famous story of one of his early

patients, John Daly. He was this guy who kind of came in for like peddling dope. Peddling dope was the official crime at the time. And he got a kind of a nose job and a facelift. And he was like this big success story in the newspapers. They were like, oh, you know, new nose, new face, new knows, new life. And, like, he came out and this guy, his name was James Daly, he started giving, like, talks and churches and seminars about how, like, you can make good again. And so this was a really positive thing for a while. And then he was re-arrested. And now everybody had to write, yeah. So then they started writing think pieces about, like, a new face doesn't make a new man. And, like, the church had to, like, kind of do a really awkward talk about how, like,

goodness wasn't a saving grace. And all, you know, kind of be like, well, we had him in like two weeks ago, but actually don't really listen to him. What was he re-arrested for? A drugs, again. I mean, because, you know, people with, like, who have substance abuse disorders, again, there wasn't really a lot of great treatment at the time either.

No, probably a facelift wouldn't shift it. Is he doing this to women prisoners? Is there a sense that you could rob a bank and get your tits done? Is that a thing? So, at the time, again, we've always had much smaller female population, and women prisoners are generally don't get pretty much most of the benefits men do. So I think nearer the end of his career in San Quentin, he did start working on some female prisoners,

so, you know, some facelifts, some nose jobs. And so we know that was going on. We don't really have records of that particular prison of how successful that was. I mean, I've seen the before and afters, and, you know, people look pretty good. Is that there are before and afters out there? Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I would love to know what a 1927 facelift.

look like. My God, that's incredible. Okay, so it's not just this guy doing his experiments, we'll call him in San Quentin Prison. This led later on to a much bigger research project, didn't it, in New York, a three-year surgical and social rehabilitation of adult offenders. Is that right? That is. I know. It's like this big mouthful title, which is kind of interesting. So from the San Quentin prison prison prison surgery started happening across America. in a bunch of different states. And some were kind of programs put on by the prison. Some were volunteer surgeons who are like, oh, I want to give back and let me help this way. Some were like medical schools being like we need our, you know, trainee plastic surgeons. We'll work for free and

will help you. And so these were going on for a while in the UK, in Canada as well. And a couple of people had done research studies, you know, being like, oh, this seems to like show a reduction in reoffending. Pretty much all of these studies were done after the fact, none of them had any controls. So there was a lot of anecdotal evidence, but there wasn't, you know, really any kind of specialized analysis of it. So in New York City, in the 1960s, we have this plastic surgeon, Dr. Michael Lewin, and he has been doing plastic surgery, volunteer work at Sing Sing Prison for a while, kind of noses, facelifts, all that kind of stuff, and taking his residence as well. And he kind of felt anecdotally, like, yeah, this is super successful.

But he really wanted to study it. Like he wasn't prepared to just, like, be like, oh, let's just recommend it without the data. And so he, in New York City, he went to the Commissioner of Correction. He's like, I really want to do a study. Can we run one? And at the time, and the Commissioner of Correction was Anna Cross, who was like this fabulous woman, the second woman to hold the position.

And he was all really about promoting change and really helping prisoners kind of reintegrate into society. And she was like, yep, I love the idea. I totally get it. Why don't we do it with Rikers Island population? And Rikers Island, it's a jail, not a prison, which, you know, one of the kind of the big definitions is a jail is generally considered, you know, you'll be there like a year or less where a prison is more kind of like long-term housing. And so they decided to use this population. And, you know, the idea was they wouldn't actually do any of a surgery while they were in prison because, you know,

ethically, that's pretty ambiguous. And the other prisons, you know, most of a surgery was done in the prisons at the jail, they're like, we're going to interview people, we're going to psychologically screen them, physically screen them. And when they get released, that is when they will get the surgery and then we will follow them for a number of years and kind of check in and see how they're doing. How many participants were there in this study? So a huge amount volunteered. I think my last count was something over like 9,000 people applied and were screened. The actual numbers, I think, in the final tally, were around 200. And also, this tally, you have to remember, because of the scientific element, they were looking at it, there was a control group who received nothing.

There was a group just plastic surgery. There was a group who got, like, extra vocational services, you know, like help with housing and social care. And another group who got plastic surgery and extra help with social care. So they had all these variables they could look at, which, I thought was really interesting because everybody's always like, oh, yeah, surgery. But, you know, what about like when housing of being more important? So this was now part of a larger analysis. And what did the study find?

What were the results? It was actually really impressive. So recidivism rate then was around like 70%. So out of the people who had plastic surgery, only 30% reoffended. Out of the, you know, the group without, you know, it was kind of pretty much the normal numbers you would see. And when they like separated this even like, or finely tuned into the particular brackets, it really surprisingly turned out that people who had the plastic surgery and the vocational services, they actually had a higher reoffending rate

than people who just had plastic surgery. That's weird. Was there any suggestion as to why? It was kind of discussed that like maybe some of the people, kind of they got really fond or they got these connections with the doctors and social care workers they worked with and maybe almost wanted to return in order to kind of beef up those connections. Jesus. I mean, Riker's prison, it's still open today, isn't it? And it's not known for being somewhere that you'd want to go back to.

Oh, God, no. I mean, it's essentially built on a garbage dump. So, you know, you have this, like, horrible smell of refuse, like essentially wafting around the island. You know, you have these really tiny cells, which are really crowded. I mean, you know, back then it would have been even worse and less sanitary. You have this, like, slop you're being served, every day. You know, nothing about this is like, oh yeah, great, holiday home. Let's go back.

So out of that research, which group did the best? Was it the group with plastic surgery? Yes, like definitively. That's great, isn't it? That's crackers. That opens up so many ethical talking points. And this did leave to, is it, cosmetic behavioral therapy in the 80s? Yeah, so after this big study came out, federal guidelines about, you know, how, you know, how to do prison plastic surgery, we kind of rode out across America. Prisons that didn't have it could integrate them. Everybody had, you know, well, here's a better standard for doing things. It was like recommended in manuals as, you know, a great adjunct to prisoner rehabilitation.

And so they even had this like really great quote from a federal bureau of prisons, which goes, there is no question as to the advisability of plastic surgery where said features are so repulsive or ugly to interfere with life adjustment. Wow. Oh my God. I was about to ask if this stuff works, but just before we get to that. This happened in the UK as well, didn't it? We've been talking primarily about America, but this research and this theory was practiced elsewhere, and it was in the UK as well. Yeah, this was actually in a lot of UK prisons. I think my research kind of shows maybe starting kind of a 40s, early 50s, and we're talking like wormwood scrubs, like Grendon prison, like a bunch of different boresstores.

And some of the first research, actually, that came out of the UK prison systems was done with young offenders because there was this kind of growing movement of like, yeah, plastic surgery, great for adults, you know, but what about like hardened young people? What if we like start them there when they're still kind of forming their, you know, their approach and they weigh, they respond to the world and people. And maybe that will be more effective. So they actually tried, I think the first study was about like 55 like young people. And again, stuff like nose jobs and scar removal.

Some of the surgeries fell more on the medical end because sometimes the medical and cosmetic gets a little blurry, but definitely a number of them purely cosmetic. And the results from that were pretty positive. They found, I think it was something like only one in 18 people who had a nose job reoffended. And the numbers of reoffending were like 20% lower than the general prison population.

So they really felt that they'd had this kind of successful outcome. And there was a theory that it helped with aggression, as well, wasn't there? That if you... And I suppose, I don't know, I'm not a psychologist and I'm, you know, my entire psychology training

comes from watching Oprah. But I suppose it kind of makes sense in a way because if you're happier with yourself and how you look, perhaps you're not as angry. Is that the theory? Or is that, am I just regurgitated 19th century Césaria Lombroso nonsense?

No, I mean, I think it is definitely, you know, if you feel better about yourself, you're more positive to other people. But, you know, likewise, if you look more attractive, people are more positive to you. So it's not just your perception about the outside world. Like, they're actually, you know, the data shows responding to you on your physical cues of your appearance. And so I think this combination, like, really does help people readjust.

I mean, one of the things that's super important when you're coming out of prison, right, is rebuilding relationships. And, you know, if you're whatever considered ugly and it's hard to get a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and that's going to be, you know, something you struggle with and, you know, maybe one of the factors why you might re-offend. So tell me about Dr. Ogden on the, is it in the Isle of White that he was working? Yeah, so he was, you know, a medical officer for Her Majesty's Prison. And he, like, really believed very strongly in, like, the power of rehabilitation and strong work.

So, you know, he worked a lot with, like, the youth camps where they would, like, dig ditches and do stuff like that. And he saw among the people he worked with, like, you know, a lot of the young people were really unhappy with their appearance. And, you know, some of them in like their, you know, talk sessions, they would sort of blame it on some of the things in their life. They'd be like, well, you know, if I felt better, I wouldn't have done this or if people had been nicer to me. And that's really what incentivized him starting the study and the experiment. And then this kind of started happening in other places. Like the numbers are really kind of like spotty in terms of how many surgeries in the UK. But we know they were at, you know, a bunch of different prisons.

We know a number of prisons actually built plastic surgery units. And then we have, you know, I mean, even some kind of really sad stories, actually. Because I'm all like, oh, yeah, you know, plastic surgery, great. But then we have this one story of this guy, I think he was 20 years old. His name was Ralph. He had been to prison for stealing a plant pot. It's not exactly Don Collione, is it? And he, one of his things was he really hated his nose.

You know, it was like big, it was crooked. And so, you know, the judge, during the judge, a trial, he was like, okay, I recommend you get a nose job while you're in prison. And so, you know, he would be it. You said that during the trial? He did. Like, not only am I sentencing you to jail, but you should get your nose done as well. That just seems so mean. Yeah, no, actually, yeah, that's true. I was thinking it was more of a suggestion and an order, but yeah, I mean, you know, that is an observation about someone's appearance. I would not like that in my trial. No, so. You don't need to make this worse. But clearly, he took them up on the offer.

Yeah, so he was in prison and I think about a year later, like he was like, hey, we now have, you know, a space for a nose job, do you still want it? And he was like, absolutely. And he like wrote a letter to his father. He was like, hey, Dad, like, I'm absolutely thrilled. This is happening. I feel that this is going to be really life changing. And then they transferred him, I think, from Felton to Grinden Prison. And he had the nose job. And like, he came out of surgery, super happy. And then three days later, he died. Wow. Was that an infection? What was that? Yeah, that was essentially some sort of sinus infection. And there was an inquest held and, you know, they found like nobody was to blame. But then we have these kind of quotes from like the surgeon being like, I didn't think his nose was so bad.

And like, then we still operated and quotes from a dad just being like, I loved him anyway, I didn't care about the nose. And that was, I mean, really sad to see. But that's the one thing that we tend to forget about plastic surgery, isn't it? Especially with it being so prevalent in our own society is that it is inherently, dangerous, especially if you're being knocked out or, you know, anything that involves cutting you up. And poor old Ralph. Yeah. Just, oh dear. So what happened after that? Was the study closed down? Well, so Ralph was about like 15 years after the first study. And

Ralph was not part of the study. He was just a separate case when it was now kind of happening in the UK. And there's no exact date when it kind of stopped happening for cosmetic reasons. I think it kind of around the 1980s. Like there was a movement in part of. parliament who, you know, they were trying to get tattoo removal in prisons. I mean, I think it is now. But then they were like, you know, people, they can't reassemble and they can't integrate. They have all these like gang tattoos or whatever tattoos and we want to get rid of them. And then a whole bunch of MPs were like, well, they shouldn't have got it in the first place.

And these were like... Sounds about right. Bigger debates. And, I mean, there is some plastic surgery in UK prisons now, but like it's very medical. It's like, oh, you're... I mean, because plastic surgery, right, like, you know, is just surgery. right? Like, they're operating because, like, somebody, like, hit him with a brick and now they, like, need to, like, recon- I mean, it might be better to call it reconstructive surgery rather than plastic, to be fair. So is anywhere doing plastic surgery? Is anyone, like, working with their criminals to give them Botox or fillers or, I don't know, like, has it just died out completely?

It doesn't really exist, you know, for purely cosmetic reasons. It doesn't really exist in prisons today. Wow. I mean, even that, I really don't know what I think. about this because it seems that there is evidence there that this does help with rates of recidivism. I can never say that word. And reintegrating back into society and sort of self-worth. But on the other hand, there's just something that just doesn't feel comfortable about saying offering cosmetic surgery to people in jail. And I'm not sure why that just doesn't fit very comfortably with me. I don't know. What's your thoughts on it? Would you bring this back if you were in charge of everything, Zara? Would you be like, this was a good idea? Let's

it. With caveats, I suppose. Because ethically, like, you know, I think there's an enormous problem about operating on people in prison. You know, you're in the role of power. And sure, like, we're like, oh, it's volunteer, but, you know, maybe there's the suggestion it will help with your parole hearing. And plastic surgeries were, you know, used in parole hearings. It's like, look how well he's done. He had a nose job. And he finished his course in welding. And so you could almost be like, well, maybe some people were influenced in that way. But I actually, I think in terms of of rehabilitation, I think it would be great if it could be kind of added to the aftercare. Not that there is really aftercare from prisons, but we're there that, you know, a great bucket

that offered like, you know, social help. I actually do think that including that as part of it would be really useful. Because we know that beautiful people can't commit crimes, don't we? Who was that, who was that guy that had the mugshot and that he went viral and now he's a model? Who was that guy? Oh, the hot mugshot guy. The hot mugshot guy. Yes, he was like a gang member, I think, from Chino, California. Didn't he end up dating a like Philip Green's daughter, you know, the Topshop mogul? Jeremy Meeks, that was him, wasn't it?

I don't know who he ended up dating, but I remember distinctly when that picture went viral and everybody, I don't even know what he was in jail for. That's how bad this stuff is. But I suppose that's pretty privilege in force, isn't it? Is that people would look at that and just be like, oh, hello, handsome. Yeah, I mean, you look at him. him and you wouldn't assume he was a criminal. And, you know, even the fact that he's committed crimes, you're like, well, actually, in a way, like, enhances, like, the sexy bad boyness,

where somebody who was a bad boy without the sexiness just doesn't really get the same treatment. No, there must be loads of people who went to jail that same day for that same thing, thinking, stuff you, pretty boy. So what are the relationships now? Is there still research going on about physical appearance and rates of crime? Or is this kind of been consigned to the, the spin of history? There is still some research. You know, often it kind of falls into this like really fawny territory, but when you're talking about appearance and bias, people start getting really angry and argumentative about it because it's just like, well, now you're trying to define things. But there was a really interesting study that came out of Thailand in 2021. And so Thailand has,

you know, in recent years, had this really big crime problem with, you know, really large numbers of people going to prison and this kind of revolving door where they go back again. And so very shortly. And one of the reasons they're going back is, and you know, this is documented, is like employment is really, really difficult. So this one researcher, he was like, I mean, it does really suck. I mean, even when people are employed there, you know, the salaries they're earning are pretty low anyways. So it's like you're struggling just to really earn this salary if it doesn't necessarily give you a great way of life. And so this researcher, he's like, okay, well, you know, lots of people are studying how to reduce this. Like, what if

appearance is one of the factors. And, you know, because prison is like famously very hard on the body, right? Like, if you don't have any scars or bruises when you go in, like the likelihood is you might have some when you come out. And so he took a bunch of, he worked with a prison system and got permission. And he took a bunch of prisoner photos and he photoshopped them. And in Thailand, it's one of the places, I think South Korea does this too, where when you apply for jobs, you often put a headshot. Okay. And so he sent out, you know, headshots, you know,

some of the Photoshop ones, some of the not Photoshopped ones, to I think around 450 businesses. And it was a mix from, you know, kind of blue-collar jobs, white-collar jobs. And he was like, hey, you know, you know, kind of tell us, like, would you hire this person? What would you pay them? And pretty much overall, you know, he got back data saying that, you know, the more attractive people would be paid more.

And, you know, if it doesn't, necessarily surprise me. And he was like, well, an issue with this is, right, like, they don't know these people have criminal records, right? We're just going based on, like, once you introduce that bias, is that dramatically going to change things. And so he tested it. Okay. And so now he sent out, you know, another batch again. And this time, he did give people kind of, he still sent out some without them, but he did give out their kind of criminal records. And he found, actually, apart from people where there are. offenses had been drug-related or violent, they still would be hired at a higher rate and still

would be paid a higher rate by the prospective employers across the board. Wow. The power of it, that's astonishing, isn't it? It really is. Like, the fact that it can kind of mitigate, you know, what you would kind of think is a bias that people would have. I mean, oh, he wasn't like, oh, yeah, let's give everybody plastic surgery. But he did say, like, you know, we need to think about the way that, you know, we deal with, like, presentation and appearance and how we would. can address this. I think that you have now convinced me that that is actually a very overlooked and integral part of rehabilitation, but also just something you don't think about in day-to-day life, but look at the impact that that has, the power of it, right? And we're not talking necessarily,

like when we're saying, you know, cosmetic surgery, I'm not like, oh, you're taking this person and, you know, you're turning them into Cindy Crawford, right? You're taking somebody who has, you know, age skin or scars or stuff that they might not have if they hadn't had, you know, such a difficult life. And you're kind of taking, you know, pulling them back up to essentially average. So you're not like making everybody, you know, 10 out of tens, but you're just kind of lift boosting their appearance. If you went too far the other way and if you made people unrecognizable, that might actually help them commit more crime. That wouldn't be a good thing. Yeah. And that was definitely, you know, people have like talked about that and how that's a fear. And, you know, we've had mobsters

who like have lots of plastic surgery and go on the run. God, of course, yes. Zara, you have been amazing to talk to today. If people want to know more about you and your work and the possibility of getting plastic surgery if they ever get into jail, please don't guys. Where can they find you? So I'm my website, Zarastone.net,

on Instagram at Almost Zara. And my other Instagram is at Prison Plastic Surgery. And I'm on Twitter as well. And you can find out more my book, Killer Looks for Forgotten History of Plastic Surgery, available at Amazon and all other good bookshops. You've just been amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. This is great. That's it. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you to Zara for coming on the show to talk about this subject. I honestly knew so little about it. And if you like what you've

heard, please do give us a follow and a review. And of course, if there's a topic that you would like us to delve into, you can now drop us an email at betwixt at history hit.com. Please do it. We love hearing from you. We've got episodes on Wallace Simpson, on food and shame, and a special Valentine's episode on Cassanova all coming your way. So until next time, my lovely betwixters, you stay saucy. This podcast includes music by Epidemic Sounds.