Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - The Most Notorious Sex Worker of 18th Century Dublin

Episode Date: January 27, 2026

Dublin in the 18th century was a wealthy colonial capitol, but only for a select few.Amongst this hugely divided and politically charged world was the infamous sex worker Peg Plunkett, who counted some of society's most well to-do as her clients.What was life like for most people in the Empire's 'second city' at this time? Did she really flirt with royalty? And what scandals did she get wrapped up in?Joining Kate today is historian, author and co-host of our sister podcast After Dark, Anthony Delaney, to help us get to know this fascinating woman.This episode was edited by Tim Arstall. The producer was Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddy Chick.Sign up to History Hit for hundreds of hours of original documentaries, with a new release every week and ad-free podcasts. Sign up at https://www.historyhit.com/subscribe.  All music from Epidemic Sounds.Betwixt the Sheets: History of Sex, Scandal & Society is a History Hit podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello, my lovely betwixters. It's me, Kate Lister. Welcome back to Buttwix the Sheeds. That's not the new theme tune. Surprisingly. But before we can go any further together, I do have to tell you once again and forever more.

This is an adult podcast, Book of My Adults to Other Adults about adulty things in an adulty way covering a range of adults subjects and you should be an adult too. That's just to keep everybody safe and snugly. Do you feel safe and snuggily? Well, I certainly do. Right, let's crack on. If there's one thing you notice from strolling around Dublin in the mid-18th century,

it is the glossy veneer of a well-to-do society. Look around you, these impressive houses are standing very tall, very on point, very regency chic, with society's finest milling about. But as you can imagine, beneath that fair façade looks something rather murky, and what we see before us is far from the full story. Look behind these fancy doors and you will see that this enormous wealth divide has created, amongst other things, a thriving sale in sex.

And one of the most notorious sex workers of 18th century Dublin was none other than Peg Plunkett. Try saying that five times fast. Hers is a vibrant but tragic story and we know all about it because Pegg was kind enough to write her memoirs. Are you ready to find out more? Well, I know I am. Hello and welcome back to Petwix the Sheets, The History of Sex Scandal and Society with me, Kate Lister.

As you well know, listeners, you don't have to ask me twice to explore the life of one of history's most famous sex workers. I'm always there for that. And in today's episode, we are getting to know the marvellous, the fantastic Peg Plunkett. It's difficult to say, fast, I'm telling you. Try it. Anyway, Peg. She was a sex worker, a courtesan in Dublin in the mid-18th century,

a time when the city was known as the British Empire's second city after London. Well, what was life like at the time for those who weren't super rich? What was Peg's story? Where did she come from? What was her tale? How did she end up in sex work? Who were her clients? And what did she have to say about all of it? Well, joining me today is the spectacularly fabulous Anthony Delaney, host of the sister podcast After Dark. He's also the author of The Marvelous Queer Jordans, A Hidden History of Lover's Lawbreakers, and homemakers. So if anyone can tell us about Peg, it's Anthony.

Right, let's do it. Welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. It's only Anthony Delaney. How you doing, lovely? I'm good, Kate Genevieve Lister. How are you? I don't know what your middle name is, but that's what it is now. I'm a woman that was born in the 80s, so it's Louise.

Of course, obviously. Of course. What else would have been? There was one middle name doing the rounds then. Even my middle name is Louise. I too was born in the 80s. Everybody, they just went, Louise. Yeah, that's what we'll do.

We are here to talk about a woman with quite an extraordinary name, though. Well, quite a few extraordinary names, actually, which is one of the problems that we'll encounter. Yeah, Peg Plunkett. Short for Peggety Plunkety. No, it's not. That's not what's short for it at all. Peggetty Louise Plunkety. Peggy Louise Plunkety.

She is, as everyone from Ireland listening is going, oh God, what is he saying? She is a really interesting person, as we're a really interesting person, as we're a really interesting person, as we're about to discover. But what we're going to need to decipher at some point is where the myth-making comes in because some of the facts here, Kate, are not necessarily the most grounded facts. I know.

But it's a fun story there. But the story is the Peg Plunkett was the most famous courtesan in Ireland in the 18th century. She ran through the Great and the Good and she shook two fingers up at royalty. And she just, you know, it's like Mul Flanders. That's the story, in it? Yeah. And you know what? In terms of that, there's truth in some of those, although

I don't think she ever really met royalty. I think that's... Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit. Yeah, yeah, it's a bit... But, yeah, anyway, but that's that. But those other bits, I think we can say that that summation is pretty true. But, I mean, if it makes sense, because what I want to kind of highlight at the beginning is to start with telling a little bit about 18th century Ireland, as opposed to 18th century Britain. because I think people are more familiar with what's happening in England rather than what's happening in Ireland. And it is its own microcosm onto itself. So what we have in the 18th century in Ireland is this very small Protestant elite, which is under British control.

And they are ruling the kingdom of Ireland, basically. Now, it is formerly a kingdom, but in practice it's governed by the British, as I said. And all of political power lands with this small Protestant ruling class, which is known as the Protestant ascendance. And the ascendancy bit basically comes into, we are ascending into power. And they are dominating Parliament, law, all, you know, country administration, even though they are by far the vast minority in the country. So it's estimated that 90% of the land in Ireland was ruled by 10% of the population, then being the Protestant population.

So we have a lot of restrictions on the Catholic majority. They are legally restricted in many ways through the penal laws, which we're a bit familiar with in England too. And they can't sit, Catholics can't sit in Parliament. They can't hold public offices. They can serve as army officers. They can inherit land, but only in very specific ways. So say, for instance, you know, the usual inheritance thing is the eldest son gets the land and then that passes on through the generation of the land stays intact. And that's really important.

But for Catholic inheritors, what happens is. it has to be divided between all the sons or all the daughters if there's no sons. So what the Protestant ascendancy are trying to do is break up the land so that Irish Catholics can't dominate or can't ever get back in power. So it's a pretty restrictive place for Irish Catholics to be. And this story is mostly going to unfold in Dublin, although it's not where it starts. This is a wealthy colonial capital, but only for some. So in the same way as London is, it is the second largest city in the British Empire at this time after London, of course. We're dealing with, you know, incredible Georgian streets, which you can still come and visit in Dublin there.

They are incredible. When I'm staying in Dublin, if I'm home, I stay on Henrietta Street, and it is just the center of the Georgian world back in the 18th century. And we have theatres, coffee houses, elegant townhouses. But of course, this prosperity is only concentrated amongst certain of the ruling elite. And so that's Dublin. And we have this kind of social mix going on. And it's brilliant. It's lively.

It's colourful. But at the same time, it has this kind of downtrodden side for people like Pegg. She's coming in. A lot of poverty. A lot of struggle. And this is the world that Peg eventually comes into, but it's not where she's from. Tell us, where does Peg come from? Well, she is born Margaret Plunkett.

We do know this. Oh, she really is a Plunkett. That wasn't a stage name. Well, interesting. From what we can tell, yes, yes, she is a Plunkett. She was born in County Westmeath, which isn't too far from Dublin. And she is supposedly, she says herself, born in 1727. Now, this is where the question mark start to arise. Her lifespan is given officially a 1727 to 1797. The main source of information we have for Peg Plumcote, or Mrs. Leeson, as we'll come to know her throughout this episode, episode is given to us through her memoirs, right? But we cannot get the memoirs to match up chronologically

with a lifespan. It doesn't make any sense. So we have 1727 as the birth date. Some people say it's 1736 and some people say it's 1742, scholars that have actually researched the life in depth. I don't really know where to make the call, to be honest, Kate, because she says 1727, So therefore I want to lean towards 1727, but it doesn't make sense in the course of her life that she would be born in 1727. And we know she died in 1797. So we know the end date is true. So it's very disputed. But anyway, look, that's their...

She wouldn't be the first sex worker to change your age, though. But it's slightly odd. She'd make herself older. Well, I'm not a sex worker. And I've changed my age quite recently. I was talking to somebody literally this weekend. And they were just like, what age you? And I was like, 42.

And they were like, wait, you told me that you're 38. I was like, maybe I did. Yes, at some point. But I'm not. I'm 42 and that's what we're going with. So that's true because now it's on Wikipedia. Somebody very cleverly put my actual date of birth on Wikipedia. So I can't deny it anymore.

Bastards. Right. But anyway, yeah, look, so something is going on there with this. And we'll come back to this. We'll talk about it. But her family's place in Irish society is pretty decent. She's one of eight surviving children of a man named Matthew Plunkett, who's a wealthy farmer. And a woman who's first name we don't know, but she's Miss A. O'Reilly.

And we are told by Pei. herself later in her life that Miss A. O'Reilly has connections related also of the Earl of Kavan, no less. Oh, did she now? But we can't prove that in any way, shape or form. Now, she is Catholic, so I told you about the different restrictions that are put on 18th century Irish Catholics, but the family, it seems, converted to Protestantism in order to retain the land that wasn't wholly unusual, but they were secretly still practicing Catholics. So, you know, it's a tumultuous time politically. They are. trying to navigate their way through that. But as so often happens, just in life generally,

things start to fall apart within the family following the death of her mother because her father is then incapacitated and Pegg has to deal really with her brother Christopher becoming the head of the family and he is abusive. He is physically abusive as well as very controlling. So we have two accounts where she is landed in bed by his physical. abuse either for up to 10 weeks in one instance and then three months in another instance. Yeah. Yeah. So we're talking about really serious abuse here.

And it seems to track because that same kind of abuse carries through into some of the other girls, his other sisters. So he's a real fucking shit. Like it's, you know, bad what's going on there. And he has a real control issue because the girls are quite marriageable in 18th century terms. but he is picky and choosy as to which ones he lets marry because he is now... The father is still alive, interestingly, but he's incapacitated, as I say,

we're not sure how that has presented itself. We're not sure why he's not running the farm himself and the lands and the money, but the brother is withholding dowries. And, you know, Peg definitely... Yeah, Pegg definitely had the option for respectable marriage. It was there.

It was one guy who... Listen, this is how 18th century marriage often goes. He was an elderly shop. keeper. And he was lovely. She says he was nice and he was a nice guy. He wasn't particularly good looking or anything. She wasn't fancy. She didn't fancy him. But it was certainly there. There was another guy who she did really, really fancy. And as a matter of fact, it went to breach of promise because he went off and had a child with somebody else. But he did offer to marry her before all this happened. But the brother withheld the dowry. So they couldn't get married.

So she's trapped in this really abusive family dynamic. And we think that that bed is true. We were not sure about the connections to the Earl of Cavan. They must have been somewhat wealthy enough to, you know, comfortable kind of middle class, I guess. But it's a bad situation. Isn't she one of like 22 children? Yes, there is a thought that she was one of about

22, but only eight survive. But that number comes from her. And we can't verify that number at all. It's not the highest I've heard. No, I've heard more. Irish Catholics will give you a run for your money when it comes to it. But not me personally.

but other people. And it just, it really says something about, and bear this in mind as we go through this kind of self-mythologizing that's happening with Peg's story. I'm not talking about the abuse. I'm talking about that 22 children thing where, you know, it's this vast army almost

and then only eight of them survive. And when we come to talk about Pegg's own children, we find something very similar where it's really difficult to know which children she's talking about how many children she had, who she had them with. And in certain instances, as we'll see towards the end of this story,

if she even had them at all. I mean, we know she had some children, but we can't be so sure. So this is the background that she's coming from. It's pretty grim. Even if there is money there, which there seems to be, it's very, very grim. And her instinct for survival, both physically and spiritually and, you know, wanting more for herself, is definitely there. She definitely has that. And so that's why we're drawn to her, right?

Because she has this instinct to survive. I'll be back with Anthony and Pegg after this short break. So what happens then? She's living with this asshole brother who's pulling strings to prevent her from getting married, which is, that's, you know, that was a pretty good deal if you were a middle class, impoverished girl in Ireland or anywhere at this time is to marry someone who had a shop and that was kind of you done. But that's not going to happen. So how does she go from this situation to where she ends up? Well, she has this thing where she's like, I need to go home, I can't go home. I need to go home. I need to go home. I can't go home. And finally, she's down on her look and she's stayed with relatives. And then that all kind of runs out. And the respectable thing to do, even if it's not the safe thing to do, is to go home. So she tries to go home. But Christopher doesn't take her back. He won't let her back into the house. So she's basically sofa surfing with relatives. Yeah, more or less. And he really focuses on Pegg, by the way, as well as the other sisters. But on Pegg, particularly, he's like, you're a troublemaker. You're not coming back into this house. And so she essentially gets kicked out and she goes to, you know, it's very similar to what you'd hear in an English history. She goes to the big city. She goes to Dublin to try and make something. Yeah, exactly.

Now, we don't know exactly what age she is at this point. We don't know the dates exactly. But we think realistically she's probably mid to late teens or early 20s because she's had a bit of a life. She's had marriage proposals come in. We know the first marriage proposal that she had was when she was 14, which is shocking to us, but not necessarily that unusual in the context of the early 18th century. But she arrives in Dublin in a time, as I say, that was you know, full and busy and exciting. We have taverns and theatres and lodging houses. And then we have this idea that sex work and entertainment are overlapping with those more

regulated establishments. So we have the bars that are regulated and that they have their permits and we have the ones that don't. And that's often where the most fun entertainment is happening. It's also where sex workers are often working from. And in her memoir, she describes this kind of progression when she arrives to Dublin first, where she's in precarious lodgings. So she's kind of making do as much as she can. And, you know, she's being on a date basically for men of a certain class, but very middle in class. And then we start to see relatively quickly this rise to more comfortable quarters, her income improves.

The addresses are better. So what we're finding is she's making her way in this commercial heart of the city. She is becoming part of that commercial heart. And she's making it work for her because she's savvy. She's business-minded. She knows what she has in terms of her own commodification. Is she selling sex at this point? So she's selling companionship.

We know that. She says she's not selling sex necessarily, but the likelihood is she probably is. I think in terms of 18th century sex work, we don't see this delineation between a companion for dates and outings and sex work very clearly. No. So it's probably likely that she is, although in her memoirs, she doesn't make that explicit. But once we know that she's moved up into that world of sex worker to what we term as the courtesan, then she is more explicit about the fact that sex work is involved in what she is doing.

So she now has private apartments. So these men from the upper middle and even gentry, apparently, are giving her private quarters. She has a set of regular patrons. So just to make clear, often when we talk about a courtisan, it is an exclusive courtsonship. So I will only go with the Lord of Wherever or I will only be his mistress. But in Pegg's case, we don't have that same exclusivity, although certain men do try to ask her to provide that for them.

She doesn't feel safe. And I don't necessarily mean physically, although I'm sure that comes into it too. Financially, she finds that too precarious, even if in the short term it will give her even more power, but she's like, if you turn your back on me, I need to have two or three other people going at the same time. And she does. Yeah. And it gives her a little bit of financial independence to have that, to have that kind of ensemble of people that she's working with. This is where people start to notice her and where she starts to appear in other sources apart from her own memoir. So this is where we can corroborate some of what she's saying. She's definitely well known.

She's particularly well-liked by a lot of people across the... You might think there is judgment going on here. And there is, to a certain extent, in certain quarters, but overall, amongst the people in the entertainment quarter, in the sex work quarter, and even at elite parts of society are up for a bit of crack. Peg is the person you want to be around. She's one of the girls that you want to be around.

And she has this security, although it's really important in Pegg's story to bear in mind that that security that she does earn is never permanently secure. It can go so, so quickly. And it does. This thing, isn't it? This is, because it's all, if you're going to be a professional paid mistress,

that you can make bank with that, but as you say, it's all dependent on the man, still wanting to fund you, fund your lifestyle, and you've got to be very careful with that stuff. Yeah. And as I said to you before,

there are men who come in and you're like, no, you're exclusive to me. And one of those people was a Mr. Leeson. Now, this is a person that Pegg names herself in the memoirs. And it's really important, I think, and it's really interesting to remember that Pegg is writing this, or it's been written on her behalf.

Again, we'll come back to that. And she chooses to name some people by their real names and others not. And historians have had a really tough time trying to decipher who's real and who isn't. So apparently we have a wealthy merchant called Mr. Lisa. Now, we can't quite pin that down, but historians think she may be referring to Joseph Lee, He was the second Earl of Milltown. Now, when you're talking prominent in Dublin, in 18th century Dublin society, there ain't many more prominent than Joseph Leeson.

Okay, he's swinging big dicks. He is swinging his own big dick wherever he wants to be swinging it. And he is essentially shaping 18th century Dublin in building terms, in money terms, in sociability terms. He is one of the makers, right? And he asks for exclusivity through her. And because of his, if it is the second Earl of Miltown, and there's a reason to believe that it is,

because she restiles herself as Mrs. Leeson at this point. Not unusual for courtesans to do that. They want to show who their patron is essentially, because it gives them power, it gives them status. And she's rebranding herself. Now think about this in terms of businesswoman. And the agency, however limited it might have been for women, in the 18th century, and particularly maybe sex workers in the 18th century, she's using what

agency she has. She's now marketing herself, as well as providing service, as well as being able to make decent book. She's now marketing and using publicity to get a name out there that she is Mrs. Leeson. She is moving at that level of society now. So this looks good, but she hasn't let some of the other regulars go. I think she kept two on. It's unclear exactly, but I think there was two other men she kind of kept on in the background. And it was a good thing she did because Lisa becomes very jealous because he gets to find out about these other two guys. And it ends in a big blow up, a big bust up. And he wants nothing more to do with her.

She's kicked out of her apartments that he's paying for. And it all kinds of falls apart. So it does go to show, listen, if it was the second Earl of Milltown, of course she's going to take this position. Of course she's going to provide the service where she can. but she's also smart enough to know I cannot rely on this. I'm not just giving this over. So I'm going to keep the others on in the background. And it turns out

she was right because she knows the inevitability of what's about to happen even when she's attached to Leeson. So she's a smart cookie. I think one of the things I really like about Peg's story, again, if it's true because you've got to be careful with all this stuff. But she doesn't

there's no sense of shame with this. There's no sense of like, oh maybe I shouldn't be doing it, which sort of very much stands in opposition to 80th century, 19th century narratives around people selling sex. Now, they should be ashamed and fallen women out of terrible. She honestly doesn't seem to give much a fuck about this. Like, didn't she even take clients to court who were violent to her? She did. And we'll come to that in just a second. But just to say, in terms of the 18th century, at this particular point, let's say the 1720s, this is the time of the Reformation for the

society for the Reformation of Manners. And they are going around absolute dry arces. And they They're doing exactly what you are saying. And they were doing it in Mollie houses in London. And they were doing it. They have branches in Dublin too. And they're doing exactly what you just said, moralising, hand-wringing. Oh, these terrible... They're the moral police, basically.

They are. They were very dangerous. Like, they weren't just going around Tutton at people. They were instigating raids into gay subculture and targeting people selling sex and making sure that they were prosecuted. They were really nasty these people. Yeah. It's that thing of going...

We hear it today, right? this Christian morality as the spine of action and actually what they're doing is incredibly cruel, incredibly divisive, incredibly dehumanizing to so many people. And this is all done in the name of Christianity. And that's certainly what's happening around now. Now, Pegg doesn't fall suspect to that herself, to that society. But she is arrested a couple of times,

but because of her high connections, nothing ever comes of it. But we see her pop up in the record every now and again again. So we know she's existing, but she always seems to get away with stuff. But this is where that legal case that you're talking about starts to come in. Because once the Earl of Mill Town says, right, out of my apartments, she has no other choice but to set up with another courtesan who must have found herself also kicked out or whatever it was.

But her name was Sally Hayes. And together they came, again, this, you know, this business sense, they come together and they go, right, we've reached that level now of courtsonship where we've had the major patrons. Now we need to do something that's a little bit more for us. And they set up a house of their own on Draheda Street,

which will cater for upper middle class to elite men. It's an organised establishment. It is right at the heart of Dublin's social district. The women there are paid to live on the premises. Well, they receive money

from the income that they generate themselves. So it's not that they're paid by peg, but they get a percentage of what they earn. But they also do to peg on peg and Sally for their food, for clothing, and for most of all protection. She does create this measure of security and community that maybe she was missing when she had to kind of find this way on her own. Now, she's by no means the first person that's opening what was termed a brothel at that point. But she's definitely doing it in a more

organized way. She has a public reputation. As a businesswoman, she is appearing in contemporary satirical writing and other people are, you know, talking about it. her, but she is a recognised figure in Dublin's Demiomond. I mean, it's fair to say, I think, that she's notorious rather than famous, but she's certainly not anonymous, you know? She knows she has a place in Dublin society. So let's talk about that legal case that you mentioned, because it is, I think this is the, I think this is why we're left with a memory of Peg. I think had she been a normal sex worker, a courtesan and had she run a house. We might not, there was women doing that, but because of this,

this is how we remember her. So she is in her house that she shared with Sally Hayes on Drahada Street. And there was, she was closing down for the night. She was essentially the way it kind of looks in the source material is that she was sitting down by the fire for the night. The windows have been closed over. The fire was on. There was a few candles going. There's this real sense of relaxation that she gives. That, you know, I've done my day's work. I'm about to close in. There was a group of privileged rich men that Pegg refers to as the Pinking Dindies. Now, we think that that is the Pinking Dandies. You know, it's what we're trying to, I think what they're trying to do there shows Peg's accent that she had this very kind of thick Irish accent.

So they call them the Pinking Dindies. And they are a loose group of upper class young men in 18th century Dublin, sons of the Protestant elite. So this ascendancy I talked about at the beginning. They're at Trinity College, which is like Oxford, Cambridge and Ireland. They're officers and gentlemen. And they have time. And Kate, they have money to waste. And I mean, things never changed, do they? And the way they do that is by interfering with people they see as beneath them. So they're famous for... What a nice group of people. I mean, think, I suppose think Bullington. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking about. Just like, with. We're rich, we're a bit bored, and we're assholes.

So we're going to go and pick on people. Yeah, and we're going to pick on the people that are vulnerable potentially, as far as we see them. Drinking, rioting. Interestingly, they had a habit of attacking brothels specifically, although they also used brothels. So it's this strange thing that they're doing to themselves. Historians basically feel, and it adds up, right, the historians have said in the past that they just saw themselves above the law. And of course they did. That's exactly what we're doing.

So the night of this particular, we know we're in 1779. We don't have an exact date, but we're in 1779. Now, what I want you to bear in mind is if Pegg was born when she says she was born in 1727, she would have been 52 at this point, right? And that makes sense in terms of where she would be socially now and what she would have achieved and that she would be running a house of her own. But then there's some elements of this story that don't quite make sense, but we'll come to it.

Some of it is definitely true, though. So it's the evening, some evening, we don't know when, in 1779, and the dindis are heard out around Droghahah Street. They are causing havoc. And Peg knows they're coming for her because they know they attack brothels. And so she's preparing herself. They smash in the door. They smash down all the windows. That's her evening, you know, her quiet, peaceful evening that she was planning on gone.

They vandalize all her furniture. And they assault the women that they find there while they're terrorizing the name. neighborhood, and they also assault Peg. Now, Pegg gives a really pretty intense account of the violence in her in her memoir. And you can read that for free online, by the way, so it's worth having a look over. It's easy to read. It's quite digestible. And one of the things to bear in mind at this point, if Pegg is 52, she says that she was pregnant during this attack. And that as a result of this attack, later on, when she gave birth, she gave birth to. a stillborn child.

But there is also an account that says that didn't happen, but that there was a child within the house who was murdered as a part of the tensions and the violence and the abuse that was going on in there. So there's something going on with a child that dies because of this. Either way, it's utterly tragic. And we know that the person at the head of this gang of idiots. is a man named Richard Crosby. Now, if you Google Richard Crosby

or go on the Irish Dictionary of Biography, whatever it's called, you will maybe know this name already because he is an aeronautical triumph in 18th century Ireland. He is the first Irishman to make a manned balloon flight. And that's why he's famous. But he is arrested for this

because, as you say, Pegg pushes that he cannot be allowed to get away with this. She is not the first person to do this, by the way. not even the first sex worker to do this. Other sex workers had done it. But she really uses her notoriety to make sure it's a high profile event when she does this. So people know about it. She takes him to court.

We don't have the court documents. The court documents are very, very scatty. But we do know what happened and we do know he was taken and we do know she brought the case against him. So we have the bare minimum. There is no mention in the official court documents about murder or the death of another child. that doesn't appear there. It's only in Pegg's memoir and then in something else that's written much later. So that's where the confusion comes around that. Historians question whether or not Peg could have been pregnant if she was 52 and that's why some historians have said, well... It's unlikely. Not impossible, but it's unlikely, right? Yeah. And so that's why historians have moved her date of birth. I don't know if we should do that, to be honest. I think if she tells us at 1727, we have to go with 1727. I don't think we can like retrospectively go. Actually, it would make more sense if she was born 1746, so we'll just say 1746. You know what I mean? Like even if there's a few things that might help, you know, and this is one of the instances that they use to say, well,

actually, she could only have been around this age when this happened. So she was probably born then. She could have also been lying for dramatic effect. She could. And I know that sounds really harsh. And people were saying, but why would you not believe that she had lost this child or there was a child lost? And we'll talk about this as a kind of a rounding up thing maybe at the end. But the nature of 18th century memoir writing is exactly that. It's to give adventure story. It's the pull at the heartstrings. It's not about truth. I'll be back with Anthony and Pegg after this short break. Peg's memoirs is one of a series of, they were called harlotographies of where infamous sex workers, there was Charlotte Hayes, there was Harriet Wilson, and they all publish

their memoirs. And what do you want from a notorious character's memoirs? You want them to be notorious. So they're not being sold for being factual and accurate. They're being sold for the story that they tell. And while there's truths smattered in there, and actually you and I've spoken about this before, because we've spoken about the memoirs of the Chevalier Dion, and that is a good 90% not true. And it's more easily factually checked because the Chevalier was more famous than Peg was. But the memoir writing is, as you say, it's adventure story. And, and And Peg is benefiting from that too, by the way, because she's getting paid to sell these memoirs. So, you know, she's not necessarily a victim of this invention. She's part of it.

But definitely there was a case. She won the case. Go Peg. Grosby was imprisoned. However, there was some kind of an exchange that happened between Pegg and Crosby. And they ended on pretty decent terms. She shook his hand and essentially forgave him. He was let out early anyway because, you know, of his social status and all that kind of a thing. It seems unlikely to me that if there had been an infanticide or that a child had been killed in utero, that she would have been happy enough to just turn around and shake his hand and be like, let's just get on with this. I think that may have been some creative licence to have made that particular assault seem even more horrendous. Yeah, yeah. And that's not to say there were not assault and that they didn't have it.

No, no. Here's the thing. This assault changed Pegg's life. This marks a real turning point in her career. And I think it makes more sense that she is older because of what happens next. So because of the demolition that happens, well, demolition is a strong word, the bricks and mortar are still standing. But because of the chaos that happens within the house on Droghda Street, Pegg and Sally have to move their establishment elsewhere. And what keeps happening is they keep having to move it.

Now, any business will kind of tell you that's not good for business because, you know, you can be forgotten about. you can easily just get lost. They go to Wood Street and then Pitt Street, which is, if you know, Dublin on the site of the Westbury Hotel today. So these are still good locations, but it's, you know, the moving around is not necessarily great for business. And so we see that this is a turning point for her. Things become far more precarious, even though she has her own business. It's starting to lose money. You know, I suppose there's an element, and this is conjecture on my behalf,

But, you know, it's worth saying, I suppose, she's taking this man to court, this powerful man to court. I suppose what do you think, if that gives you a reputation going, oh, maybe we can't trust her as much as we used to anymore? Entirely possible, I think. I mean, there's a few things that are going on here is she's probably discovering what a lot of people do when they're selling sex, which is that you peak quite early. And then, you know, life experience and things kick in and you're getting a bit older. and, you know, every trash can has its lid, but by and large, the market is for younger people. And if she's getting into her 50s and beyond by this point, and of course, then you're tired and your knees are given out and all the rest of it. So, like, the client pool starts to dry up and you've got to try and move into brothel keeping itself and if she has a reputation as somebody that is willing to

press charges, somebody that has a connection with the police, I don't think that would be great for business. I can't imagine clients going, yeah, let's do it. definitely go here. And here's the thing, that's such a good point because I suppose if she had been, sadly, if she had been 30 and taken that case, they might have been still like, yeah, but she's still an absolute right. I'm still going to go over to, you know, but then because of, as you say, every bin of the lid and I've never heard that saying, but I very much enjoy it. There's always a market. There's always a market. Absolutely. Let's say she is 52 when that attack happens. And let's say she moves three times then thereafter. So let's say by the time she

comes to that last place, she's probably 60 or in her 60s. And so what it's described to is as she starts to retire. So it makes sense in terms of what you're saying. There's a retirement coming in. So she retires to this place that's now very bougie, but at the time would have been grand like, not bad, but it's called Black Rock. And she is hard up for cash at this point. It's hand to mouth now. and she sells her memoirs to make money. And again, but I love this for her because it's that same thing. It's when you leave a girl band, as I have so often done, when you leave a girl band, you write the memoir, don't you?

You write the biography and you get your million-quid deal and you do whatever you do. So she's just using what's at her disposal to see her through a comfortable retirement in that sense. And I admire that from her. Maybe this is a good time to talk a little bit more about those memoirs like we're saying, in terms of how APEG may not have actually written this herself. She may have sold the rights essentially. It didn't work in the same way, but given permission for it to happen, and fed the information to somebody,

she may have partially written them or she may have entirely written them herself. We don't know. She was definitely literate, so she could have had. But one of the things to point out here is that if somebody is after Pegg's memoirs, it means she is important enough, she's well-known enough, and she's famous enough, and interesting enough, for people to want to read what she has to say. So she has a status still, despite the penury and despite all of that,

she still has a place in society. But as you were saying earlier, Kate, this is reconstructed conversations, altered timelines, and we definitely see that in Pegg's story, and heightened dramas to make this story engaging. It is seen as a literary production. And even the people who would have been reading them at the time understood what the exchange was. They knew that this was part of the gig.

Although, part of the fun was, but which bits are true, though? Like, who's Mr. Leeson actually? Or who's this other guy? Because they know there's going to be true things there, but they just have to kind of decipher that for themselves. And it's not necessarily always very straightforward. But that is the main thrust of Peg's life. Now, the weird thing about it is,

she looms relatively large in Irish history still. That is true. Like, we know when it comes to the 18th century. Yeah, yeah, people know who Peg Plunkett is. And, you know, if they don't, they know who Mrs. Leeson is. So we have that kind of idea of who she might be. But I think it says something about how unclear the Irish 18th century is. And she really personifies that in many ways.

And as a result, though, somebody needs to make this biography because you can do what you like with it. Yes, that is true. Because she did. That is true. You could do anything that you want. You could. You could be historical. And I feel like that would be part of Peg's legacy because she was doing the same thing herself.

But what I admire most about her, I think, is her business savvy, her intellect, her ability to make the best of a fucking shit situation. That is admirable. Was it a big hit her memoirs? Yeah, there was a few editions. Yeah, big success. Yeah, yeah. And as I say, it keeps going into the 19th century and it drops off a little bit into 20th century, but it's having a bit of a resurgence. Again, as I say, it's free online.

You can listen to the audiobook version of it. The historical analysis of her by historians has a finite use because there are so few documents beyond her memoirs that it's a bit like, oh, God, I don't know what's going on. We know she was real. We know she was real. We do know she was real. We know she was a court-a-in-we-we-know there was a case. So the pillars are certainly true. It's the decoration that she adds around it is brilliant.

And good for her. If you were being paid to write a memoir of your book and you had to like recollect to an argument you had 40, 30 years ago, I'll put my hands up. I would absolutely trash the other person. I would make it up entirely. I'm sure that I would. And also because you would have been in the right, of course. Of course I'd have been in the rights. So it, you know, it doesn't really make a difference if you're making it up.

It's still the right thing to do. Yeah, I don't know. Nobody's going to ever ask me from my memoir. It would be so boring. But like, if they did, I'd make it up, I guess. Yeah. I was just like, well, but you'd have to, like, spice it up a bit, wouldn't you? Oh, I really have to.

It'd be so boring. That's not true. It's not sure. He's not boring. But do you know what happened to Pegg after she had her literary smash? Did she get to retire and put her feet up in a nice old folks home or? No. No, she didn't.

I mean, it wasn't, listen, it wasn't terribly bad. It was, as you might expect, bad. She had kept the brothel for years, as we know, she became, things became increasingly precarious. She had that fall from grace. She had the case. And then we know that she died in and out of poverty and illness. She had been imprisoned a couple of times for debt. Although people always came to a rescue for that.

And we know she died in 1797. I had a look for this because I was like, oh, go on. Let's see if I can find out where she was buried. And I can't really find anything. And I think that says something about maybe this little, maybe Pegg's real legacy is this literary invention that she has, that she has invented around herself because the reality of her life

kind of dissipates and you know what as well Kate as I'm chatting to hear about it maybe she was giving people a bit of a gift as well like she was known for the crack in her day and that's what she wanted to leave people with

a bit of crack because actually the reality of what she would have experienced would have been tough as nails a lot of time and that's not what the audience want to hear from those kind of memoirs

just don't and so she gift that, I guess, as the last thing. And so we lose trace of her, but we know she was in and out of prison for debt. But again, I suppose it's important to point out that for somebody of her class at this point, during her retirement, it's not necessarily all that unusual that might happen. And she had friends that would, not family mind, but she had friends that came to a rescue of those people who may have been patrons in the past or other girls who maybe were aware of her reputation. We don't actually know. But she certainly wasn't able to afford to get

herself out and she was taken out of the prison because the debts would be paid. And we're not talking huge debts here. We're talking food debts. We're talking clothing debts. We're talking, rental debts. We're talking the very basics. And so yeah, and so she kind of disappears after that. So she doesn't go out in a blaze of glory. But as I say, the legacy is brilliant and glittering and fantastic and fun and camp and all of those things and sexy. And so maybe maybe she wants us to have that version of her end rather than maybe what actually happened. I think that's true. Oh, Anthony, you've been so much fun to talk to.

I knew that you would be. If people want to know more about it, don't listen to him. It's a lot of course. Any day could just take him turn for the worst. Don't listen to him. He's fabulous fun. If people want to know more about you and your work, where can they find you? Well, they can head on over there to get good old after dark and listen to the old stuff

that would do over there. I've heard of it. Yeah, no, I've been honest, a couple of times. Rather, Martin. And then you can find me on social media at Anthony Delaney History. Well, will you come back and tell us more scandalous history another time? Because we have so much fun when you're here. Of course I will.

And you know what? We should do it in a pub or something. We should get ourselves an old drink. I think so. I think so. History hit down the pub. The producers are now going, Anthony, stop saying stuff that you know we can't make happen. We can't do recording.

We can make that happen. That's you, me, a pint and a recording. That is easily done that one. Right. Well, until then, thank you so much. You've been marvellous. Thanks for having me. Thank you for listening and thank you so much to Anthony for joining us. And if you like what you heard, don't forget to like with you and follow along whatever it is.

You get your podcasts. Coming up, we have got an episode on just how filthy were the Victorians and the first in our brand new mini series of history's worst ever breakups. Starting with none other than Henry the 8th and Catherine of Arrogant. of course, of course they're there. They don't get much worse than that. Or do they? But if you want us to explore a subject, or if you just wanted to say hello,

then you can email us at betwixtat history hit.com. This podcast was edited by Tim Arstall and produced by Stuart Beckwith. The senior producer was Freddie Chick. Join me again, Betwixt the Sheets, The History of Sex Scandal and Society, a podcast by History Hit. This podcast contains music from Epidemic Sound.