Betwixt The Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society - The Museum of Sex Objects

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

We’re used to exhibits in museums detailing our ancestors’ home lives and work lives, but what about their sex lives?On a sunny day in London, Kate met Deborah Sim, the Keeper of the Museum of Sex Objects, who brought along a collection of objects that represent just that.From a china figurine to a mysterious mudlarking discovery, what can these objects tell us about the history of sex and sexuality?*WARNING: There are adult themes in this episode* Produced by Charlotte Long and Sophie Gee. Mixed by Pete Dennis.To find out more about the museum, you can find it here. Betwixt the Sheets: The History of Sex, Scandal & Society. A podcast by History Hit. This episode includes music by Epidemic Sound. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Sign up to join me in locations around the world and explore the past. Just visit historyhit.com forward slash subscribe. Hello! Before we start today's episode, I need to give you a little heads up. There's some naughty words and some adult themes in this episode. You'd be disappointed if there wasn't really. So steady yourself, we're going in. From dildos to protest in pottery form.

Sex takes up a lot of our thoughts and time, what does mine anyway, and has left a litter of artefacts throughout history. Join me, Kate Lister, Betwixt the Sheets, for a virtual tour of the Museum of Sex Objects. What do you look for in a man? Oh, money, of course. You're supposed to rise when an adult speaks to you. I make perfect copies of whatever my boss needs by just turning enough and pushing the funny. Yes, social courtesy does make a difference.

Goodness, what beautiful time. Goodness has nothing to do with it, Derry. Hello, and welcome back to Betwixt the Sheets, the History of Sex. Scandal in society with me, Kate Lister. Deborah Sim is the keeper of the Museum of Sex Objects. And like a sexy red riding hood, she has bought us a basket of goodies from all throughout history for us to have a gander at.

One of them was rather difficult to describe, as these unexpected strangers were about to find out. I don't love the shape of it. It kind of looked like a volcano. Cold? Hard. Rock. Giant, vainy, cock.

It's like got a rib on it. To find out what object that was, keep listening. Oh, and welcome to Betwixt the Sheets. Only we're not Betwixt the Shoots. We're in London in a secluded little room above a cafe. And joining me today is Deborah Sim, the head curator from the Museum of Sex Objects. And I am surrounded by a plethora of pleasure. pleasure. And Deborah is going to talk us through some of it. Hello and thank you so much.

Thank you Kate for coming to visit. So I just have to correct you, I am the keeper. The keeper? The museum. Oh, I like that. That gives it a sort of a mysterious... There is a lot of mystery to be had here. Are you not the first keeper? No. As with everything, there's a lot of mystery back in the annals of time. And so legend has it that the first keeper was Lady Sexburger, Queen of Kent, 699. and objects have been coming to the keeper. And we'll see at the end a piece that arrived today for the keeper. Yes, we will. We will.

It's looming in the corner right now. It's overshadowing us. I know, even though I'm looking at you and I'm not looking at it, I can feel its presence. Yeah. There is an object that we're going to come to last. You wait. So the keeper.

I love that. It's like a secret. Well, I'm actually not in my ceremonial clothing today. You have ceremonial clothing? Well, I normally wear a red cape and carry the white wand of prostitution. Oh, I love it. I'm sort of off duty at the moment. You know, I've just come to see you.

You are wearing a t-shirts as slut faming, though, which I absolutely adore. Yeah. I love that. Oh, I'm just so pleased that you've given your time up to talk to me today. No, I'm overjoyed to have you here. So you said the rod of prostitution, and I'm going to guess that the reason that you said that is because there was a tradition. It wasn't a tradition. It was law in medieval Britain about what sex workers.

hat to wear and it was striped hoods, particular clothing and some of them had to carry like a wand or a, not like a Harry Potter one. They weren't magic, but it was something quite identified. Well, actually, you wonder whether lots of that language has carried on. So women had to carry a wand. It was called a wand of prostitution. Some were rods, as you're right, but just made out of bits of wood. And if you weren't carrying that, and even if you weren't a prostitute, but they thought you were a prostitute and you weren't carrying it, you could be put in the bride well. And the ray hood that you're talking about, I've been researching that recently and I contacted the head of the medieval society to find out, because I've done so much research to try and find any imagery of it.

I've never found any. No, and if you didn't, I found an account of a woman in Bristol, I think it was, who had to wear the ray hood. And I've contacted lots of people around medieval clothing to find this ray hood, but it's a hood of shame. And my red cloak sort of symbolises what I would normally where if I was taking people on tours around the museum, sort of symbolises female sexuality and the separation of the feminine into the prostitute and the virgin. And you have the virgin's always seen in the blue cloak

and the whore, like Mary Madeline, who wasn't a whore, but it's always seen in red. So I think it's quite good to have a symbolic visual, yeah, context to it. But speaking of which, it actually leads me perfectly onto our first item, look at that, seamless. So what I'm looking at right now is, Now, you're going to describe this better than me, but just on first impressions, this is a large,

what I'd probably describe as like a dinner plate sized, except that it's not a dinner plate. And there are three figures on it who look like geese, but with women's heads. And underneath is written Winchester Geese. Yeah, this is called the Winchester Geese dish. It's a dish. And if you look around the outside, you'll see vagina motifs going around. Oh, my goodness. I don't even notice that.

That totally is as well. Yeah. And then you'll see. women transmutating into geese. It's got the name Winchester Geese because the brothels that were on the South Bank were owned by the Bishop of Winchester. In fact, one of the most famous bottles was called the Cardinals Cap, which is named after Cardinal Beaufort, who was in the Vatican and he'd be then coming to his stews and walking around with his red cap on. So the Bishop of Winchester notoriously owned many of the bottles on the South Bank.

And another interesting thing about the Winchester geese, which we don't discuss is the church's part in prostitution. So on the North Bank, St Paul's owned many of the bottles on the North Bank. You've got Bishop of Winchester ruling the roost on the South Bank. And John Dunn, very famous late 16th century metaphysical poet, he gave three of his bottles in the city as a portrayal. for his daughter getting married to a guy called John Allen, who also had brothels on the South Bank. And John Dunn gave, as a marriage dowry, the bell, the cock and the barge.

I wonder if they registered for that? Like, I just bring toasters. Well, it's all been documented, so it's pretty interesting. It's Henry the 8th that closed all the stews down, wasn't it? Which has always struck me as spectacularly hypocritical. Henry the 8th is giving out sexual moral advice as he now, right here? I don't think it was a moral thing as much as what he saw as a practical thing because there was so much venereal disease in the troops, so it was to keep what he thought there's the troops healthy. So going back to John Allen and the dowry, so there were six bottles then put together, and they came to form the foundations, the money that founded Dulwich College, which, as I said, I did look on the website.

It does not say the... It doesn't give the foundation myths. No. No, it's all a very hush, hush history, isn't it? And this is one thing that's always fascinated me about sex work and the history of it, is it's all around us. It is everywhere. But it's only within the last 30, 50 years,

historians and scholars, such as your fabulous self, have started to recover this history and try and tell some of these stories. Well, that actually carries on to where this Winchester Geese dish was last exhibited, as we were saying. So the church and all the brothels. So an action group of women took the dish to Winchester Cathedral in September 2019. And it got blessed by the Bishop of Winchester to acknowledge the church's part, even in a small way, in prostitution, which was really quite a big thing.

Yeah. And one of the things that when you study that history is that you feel like you get so close. I'm looking at this dish now. And I can see that it's a history, it's real, these women were here, but we know so little about who they actually were. Like we know what the bishop did, and we know what doctors thought. what John Dunn was doing for a wedding present. Yeah. But who were the women that worked there?

Exactly. I think that's the stories that we need to be focusing on now. Because we've heard enough of kings and queens and famous people. We need to know the real history of the common people. Yeah. And, you know, because another thing is pleasure was quite a class-controlled issue. You know, people weren't allowed to have pleasure. And that's why, you know, when you say about being a sodomite or something,

one of your last programmes I didn't listen to it, that that just meant that you were doing sex, it wasn't... Yeah, just not for babies. Not for babies. And that is for pleasure. So anything that the common people were having for pleasure was outlawed and people get hung for it.

And controlled. And control. Which, you know, that's why we have to be ever vigilant. Ever vigilant. Enjoy your pleasure. Because slowly these rights people are fought for, these readings, can be eroded pretty quickly. Very quickly.

Absolutely. So we are now onto the next item. And this little blue tanked thing, and it says on it, Sexual Offences Act, 1967, and it's in a box that's stuffed with newspaper. Tell me about this. What am I looking at? Okay, you're looking at a Wedgwood. Wedgwood, that was what was going for. Wedgwood Loving Cup, which has two handles. It's a little bit journey worn, and it's in a start right shoe box. It's a shoebox. It's a little children start my shoebox. So Sexual Offences Act was passed on the 27th of July, 1967. And if you see there, you've got a paper that says... So Daily Mirror Friday, the 28th of July. This piece was given to the museum, well, bequeathed to the museum by a couple who'd found it in their uncle's attic.

And I now shall tell you the story. So the story goes that two guys met on VE Day, 1945, both in their respected military uniforms, and there was like so much celebration going on in London. And they just met and fell in love. And they were together ever since until they died. And basically they worked in Stoke in the Wedgwood factory. And one night, the night of the sexual offences being passed, they went and moonlighted and made a cup that read.

represented their love for one another, which had been secret. Because what happened was until this law was passed, homosexuality was completely outlawed. And after this day, it's still slightly a confusing issue because it can only be men of 21 and over in England and Wales could be together. But of course, there was still great discrimination. And they still couldn't really come out of their closet. They lived, as many people did, as Bachelor flatmates. Yeah, just the mates. Yeah, Bachelor of Flatmates was a terminology.

I remember there being two women who lived down Hart Street who were, you know, they're called friends. Companions. Companions, that's right, sisterly companions, but that wasn't what was going on. So basically they still had to hide, even though there was hope with this, you know, change doesn't happen overnight, does it, literally? So if you have a look, at first, the cup looks quite elegant and in the wedge with Stalin, quite, you know, doesn't have anything offensive.

Well, not that they are offensive, but people would have been offended by this, I guess, when it was made. You've got a male-male sign on the back, which was made popular during the 1960s. And on the bottom, you have a homosexual act in private which will not be an offence, and then the chapter of the Sexual Offenses Act. That's incredible. So that's just, it just seems like such a little quiet object that two men, two lovers did it in private. Yes, and it looks like a quiet object at the same time. It's also hugely

powerful. Yeah. You know? Um, so I should have said that's sprigging. The white on the outside with the blue and they worked, as I say, in the Wedgwood factory. But, you know, they still wouldn't have, even when that was passed, this obviously has gone into a box the day after and it was given to us by Brenda Moore, niece of Malcolm Moore, one of the potters. That is a very, very beautiful piece of social history. They commemorated it very quietly and privately. Yes, and I guess they wanted to do a ritual, you know, to commemorate the passing of such a big thing, which, you know, up until then, would have even got them a prison sentence or some conversion therapy. Chemical castration. Chemical castration, you know, and also because another thing is, you know,

you have the working class men and what they were expected to do, and even still to a certain extent now, So they would have been expected to look at nude women in newspapers and go to the pub and do all these things, even after this bill was passed, you know? Wow. That is a very beautiful piece. I like that very much. I'll be back in a bit with Deborah.

Ever wanted to know more about some of the greatest stories in history? Kings, queens, knights, monks, peasants, battles, castles, love, hate, treachery and revenge? They're all waiting in the great. greatest millennium in human history. Well, yet anyway. I'm Matt Lewis and my co-host, Dr. Kat Jarman and I waiting to tell you some of the most exciting, exhilarating, fascinating and less well-known stories of the Middle Ages. What are you waiting for? We've gone medieval with history hit. Are you coming? I'm looking at figurine, like the kind of my grandma's to have on her mantelpiece, but very much not in the same way. But you remember those little like elegant figurines like

shepherds and shepherdesses. It's like that, but when you look closer at this little shepherdess, it's a man, and you can see that because his corset is kind of pulled down and there's no breast, and he's got very mussely arms, but he is very much dressed as a milkmaid. And then right at the bottom, it says Gabriel Lawrence, the transmutation of the sexes. So tell me about this object. Yeah, that's a sort of like, it's had a journey, got a broken arm, and also that, what you've just read is on a very clunky sort of of Victorian edition. So it's a typical looking piece for the mid-18th century that would have been made, again, maybe somebody moonlighting, but from the Bo Figurine factory, which is the first place to do porcelain in the country. Yeah, so Gabriel Lawrence was a milkman, and because he was a milkman,

he's been dressed as a milkmaid and has a milk churn by his side and a very jolty feather hat on. look closely. He's got some wonderful makeup on and a little Adam Zappel. So Gabriel Lawrence was one of three men who was arrested on a cold February night in 1726 from the infamous Mother Clapp's Molly House down near Farringdon. That night, the house, it was always on a Sunday that it was the busiest and there would have been maybe hundreds in there. It wasn't a bottle. It was almost like a not-for-profit organisation, one by Mother Clap, who just wanted everybody to have a jolly time. They'd have to go and get beer from the tavern next door because they didn't have beer. Then it was just having a very jolly old time.

So basically, Gabriel was a molly, and that's why he's dressed as a woman. And between here and Farringdon, there were about 30 molly houses that basically would have been likened, as been likened to San Francisco in the 1970s. The Molly houses were full of men who dressed as women. When they met each other, they would curtsey give themselves sort of feminized names. And they would speak a different language as well. They'd managed to make up their own language, which I guess goes quite into a lot of slang, you know, quite me rhyming slang of today.

It was also sort of language that they would have been speaking. It was called marrying the language. Okay. Oh, and they would have marrying rooms. They would have birthing rooms where underneath the skirts, they would be pulling out little dolly spoons. And so that night, anyway, the Society for the Reformation of Manners, which were all the kill joys at the time.

Yeah, you wouldn't want them at your party, would you? No, which was formed in the late 16th century to eradicate lewd, profane and immoral activities from the city. And they sent spies into the Mollie houses. They had to say that they'd witnessed sodomy, which is really quite rude and not really very full of manners. And so they infiltrated. And, of course, when three guys were, not just three were arrested, but three were hung at Tyburn in May 1726, on the statements of these spies.

I've just got one little excerpt I'd like to read. Of course, at the same time, between here and we're actually facing the British Museum at the moment, between here and Varrington, also the first toilets opened. Public toilets. First public toilets, which was in Lincoln's Inn and Temple. And so, of course, that opened up a space where men could go and meet other men in sort of slightly compromising situations. A tradition that stayed with us for a very long time.

And I think still it was cottaging, wasn't it? It was meeting public shows. Yeah, it has led actually to a lot of pleasure and a lot of pain, actually, because you could have very severe consequences, well, the death penalty being won. So actually, from the same month when Gabriel was hung at Tyburn, May 1726, as an excerpt in the London Journal,

which says, nocturnal assemblies of great numbers of like vile persons withdraw into dark corners to endorse, as they call it. But I plain English call it sodomy. Wow. Because it would have been the first time

that those classes would have met as well in a compromising possible place. So the public toilets, I think, would be worth studying, actually. Oh, without a shadow of a doubt. I think that that's something that a lot of people forget about the history of sex, is how much of it would have happened outdoors? Because where'd you go to meet people? It's negotiating public spaces. When we find the place to install the museum,

we have like five curated areas, and one of them is called a space of parents. which is how gay men would have traversed public space and the danger of that. And, you know, I mean, basically, everybody had to have Alfrusco sex because there was no privacy. There was never privacy. You know, a four-post spread with a canopy round would be extremely rare. Extremely rare. And it wouldn't be working classes, you know.

And I remember there's a quote from Casanova of all people when he came to London in the mid-18th century and had room. on Palmel and he said that he couldn't get any sleep because of all the infernal sex on the streets. So so much intercourse going on outside his window, which I think it's quite funny coming from him. Coming from him, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So Paul Gabriel Lawrence, this is a testament, I suppose, to the many men who lost their lives at Tyburn for just being gay. And you know, the thing is, you've got to be careful, I think, when you look at sex in the past, you don't have anachronisms. Because the thing is, Gabriel could have been a cross-dresser.

This is true. We don't know, do it? He's not here. You know, it's part of when I've been through the transcripts at the old Bailey online. It doesn't really say that he'd actually been endorsing, as they called it. You know, so it would just be any pleasurable thing for the working classes in some way, either meant you ended up in prison or even worse, like the Gabriel on the end of a rope, yeah. Pleasure is quite a political thing, really. Most definitely. It's a very sad and beautiful object.

But I suppose we'd better talk about the big grey elephant thing in the room. Well, are you sexually available for the next item in the museum? Do you know what? Not without some yoga classes and quite a lot of loom. This thing that's looming into view. Right, okay, Deborah, here we go. Tell me about this thing. I'm just going to just give you a quick insight in how it turned up.

So, Pursle turned up today first class, Deborah Sim, the keeper. So this is today hot off the press. Yeah. So now people send in, even today as they did years ago, to the Keeper. Things of interest that they want to preserve or they want to, I don't really know, they just want to get rid of maybe. Give to something because I'm not quite sure what to do with themselves. Yeah, yeah.

And I guess they just like sharing things as well. People like to share their objects and have them talked about. So this has come in a cribbage and playing card box. Yep. And it's got an accompanying letter from Jill. Okay, so this is from a mudlarker who discovered this object. And the letter reads, Hi, Deborah.

We're home from a much-needed and awaited holiday, and at last got round to posting our donation and writing a little about its finding. I've given a little explanation as to what mudlarking is, as most of your visitors will not be familiar with the hobby. But if you only needed to find its location in date, please feel free to use the extract, whatever info you need from below.

No one likes to think of their grandma or great-grandma enjoying sex, but mankind has been doing just that and experimenting with how to spice things up a bit since the dawn of history. This rather large rubber aid is believed to date from the early and evidently very roaring 1920s. It was found in November 1921 in the mud of the Thames Riverbank near Richmond Surrey during the annual drawdown. This is when a section of the Thames that is normally always in full flow

is isolated while the lock go undergoes maintenance, making it tidal like upstream. Leaving areas of the foreshore that are normally underwater accessible twice daily to the licensed modern mudlarks, searching for historic items lost in the depth of both time and London's greatest river. Mudlarks were originally some of the poorest members, or more accurately outcasts from Victorian society, who waded through foul-smelling filth at low tide, scavenging for anything that they could sell, like bits of coal and rope. This is one of our more modern, but still unusual items, recovered by one particular mudlark in recent years. Hope that gives you all you need regards Jill.

Yeah, Jill has a mudlarking certificate. And what we're looking at here is... It's the biggest dildo I've ever seen, that, though. That is just... It's a monstrosity. It can't be for human use. That must be for cattle. Oh, actually, you might be right.

Anyway, it's got veins all around the side. What would you say that is in diameter? I'd say... Painful, there's what? I'd say that isn't diameter. Seven, eight centimeters? Yeah. It's quite big.

It's huge. It's really, really huge. I had thought when it came that it was just going to be a sort of rejected 1980s Jeff Strykerdildo. However, she did send me a picture of it being in her window where you would normally see flowers looking out to the garden. And I still couldn't, Jill, yeah. I still couldn't quite grasp it until it turned up today. And it is pretty heavy. Jill thinks it's rubber, it's not being cleaned.

I think we're going to have to... I love it as it is, but... You've got to what, like, who did that belong to? Well, like, it's... But, like, you know, obviously we'll never know, but... Well, we'll never know. I'm really pleased that it's being extracted. I love...

I love the veins on it. I mean, it's great. Anyway, it's a handful, that's for sure. Jesus Christ, is it ever... Do you want to hold it? Hold it. Okay. Oh, wow.

I mean, we don't really know when it was made. or anything. It feels like stone, actually. I mean, like, when you squeeze it, it's rubber, but because there's mud, like, encrusted in it, it looks like a giant stone. It's very, but early rubber was very dense, wasn't it? It's very, very heavy.

And it looks like... It's eye watering in size, and I guess, you know, as with things that we don't know anything about, we make a story up about it. Make a stuff. But then, you know, maybe that's why this has survived because it's quite sturdy.

I think from emailing Jill over the last few months... She had seen it. It was like literally embedded and wondered what it was. Just trying to see if there's like any kind of like... Any marking? You know, like it's seamless like it was poured into a mould or something or is it just... Oh, that's interesting. Should we have a look? We're just turning it round now. One thing that I would say if you were selling this to a modern audience is that it's freestanding. That can stand on its own.

Oh, and it has a little slit in the end. It's got great detail. It's remarkably realistic. That's... Well, I don't know where you've been hanging out. No, actually, actually, you're quite right. If someone pulled down their pants and revealed that, you'd run fast. Yeah. It's what you'd do. It's definitely more 19-20s pawn shoot.

I think that is when it's from. Jesus Christ, Grandma. It's very heavy. That is, it's some weight, isn't it? And also, you just wonder about where it's journey. What was it doing down by the town? I think that somebody ordered it, didn't check the measurements, and then just threw it into the temps.

They were just, or maybe it was on a ship. That's very unromantic. No, or maybe someone was on a ship, and the anchor did. work and somebody thought I know what I've got that could keep this ship from moving and shook that overboard. But I'm really pleased that this turned up in the post today. Perfect timing. I could bring it to you, Kate.

Look at that. For today, the 1920s rubber dildo, the size of King Kong's little finger. Has just been sent to the keeper in a cribbage box? And now you're going to look after it forever more. And I'll pass it on to the next keeper. So, Deborah, thank you so much. Tell me a little bit about the museum and about where people can find you. And if somebody wants to see that, what's at the moment?

That is actually nowhere. You're all the first people to see it. Yeah. Great. The big reveal. Yeah. At the moment, we are looking for premises. We do have a few irons in some fires.

So hopefully something will come of it. But we're looking for premises to open at the end of the summer. So once we'll see, well, we definitely want to open and hardly anybody's seen the whole museum. As I said, one of the installations is a space of peril. Then we've got another one called the Wall of Sexual Heroes, where people have put forward their sexual heroes and done little textile art pieces, whatever.

Badly, it doesn't really matter. Embroideries to tell the story of their sexual heroes. Again, these are not famous. As I say, the museum celebrates sexual heroes moments and places, but their personal lived experience stories, which are fascinating, really. So this wall is getting ever bigger. I love that. Who's your sexual hero?

Not like a famous person. It can be an object as well. This could be your new sexual hero. That is a sexual anti-hero. That's no one's hero. So you're looking for premises at the moment? We're looking for premises to A-Pen. At the moment, you can follow us on Instagram.

I haven't got around to you, Twitter, so. but Instagram, it's a museum and sex objects on Instagram. And if people are listening and thinking, I've got a space in London, I'd like to see the giant killed. Oh, we'll contact the keeper at the museum of sexobjects.co.uk. Any leads at all would be amazing. These stories need to be told. You know, we did open up once before, just my flat, I cleared my whole flat out in

Common Garden with the National Trust for Open Heritage Week. And we had over like 700 people then before COVID on the waiting list. So I think people like to hear these stories. I think they will. I think this is important. And yeah, so if anyone can help, find a home for Deborah and the DILDA. Please get in touch. This work is absolutely fantastic.

Long may it continue, Deborah. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm really honoured to have been asked. Are you kidding? To see the first people to have seen this Dildo in 100 years. I'm honoured. Thank you so much. Thank you.

I hope that you've enjoyed joining us. I've certainly enjoyed myself. Thank you so much to Deborah. If you like what you've heard, please don't forget to like review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We've got so much exciting stuff coming up. So join me again, Betwixt the Sheets. The History of Sex Scandal and Society, a podcast by History Hit. This podcast includes music by Epidemic Sounds.